This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Additionally from saying our name this is Tony here and Peter, Ross D.A.: Yes, so, oopsie, and and cut covering up for Bob again. The latest update is that Bob is really very happy and thankful for having all those meetings going on, the Zooms and everything. That was his, well, that was his directions really, but he's not a controlling freak. We could have said no, but yes. So thank you for coming and happy Easter. And he is doing great. Great! I just posted a little update on the Facebook group that just before I left we had to put up the fight but they took couple of pipes out of him so his comfort is just exponentially higher.
He was happy to be nevertheless but yeah well, comfort does matter in the dream. So, that's that. And now we're on, back on nonduality which is really all about nothing, which is really all about sharing our own insights into the nature of being rather than engaging excessively with the content of the dream, of the daydream. We were conditioned to engage with the dream just for the, again, practical reasons, for the reasons of the evolutionary adaptation as the humans with the brain and the capacity for narrating stories. And that somehow came to the point in which the stories have replaced the simple loveliness The simple joy of being, of being alive, of being here.
Now instead of focusing attention on here, on the miraculous unfolding of every beautiful moment to be fresh and new and different, we trade it for the dreams, we trade it for For the daydream, for the imagination, for engaging the attention with what is not happening. Hey! So everything that happened yesterday is not happening right now unless we imagine it and engage with imagination. Everything that is going to happen in 15 minutes or 1 hour or 10 or 20 years is again not happening unless we envision it and we imagine it. That's again engaging with this wonderful capacity that we have to think about what is not.
So this is really about bringing attention back to being with what is, rather than with what isn't or what is only in the mental imaging. It is not to depreciate mental imaging, totally not. It's just to give them the rightful place. It's just to put them in the rightful perspective. That all this mental imaging, all this imagination wouldn't even be possible if not for that miracle of aliveness happening, if not for that open field of consciousness that we are, That basic screen of presence or awareness. So this is where the most of the credit goes, to that incredible basic space of presence-awareness. On it then the stories come and go, perceptions come and go, the relationships come and go, emotions, feelings, art, all of it It just an expression of that field of potentiality of that basic space of knowing And what we do and I love when Bob starts those meetings from reminding that there is no one here who does not already fully know that they are So there is no one who can tell you something that you don't know yet or something that you need to know.
There is nothing to be found, nothing to be discovered, and there is no one who is superior or inferior in that knowing. In the knowing that we are, we are one, we are equal, that is just awareness of presence is present. Now on top of that, of course, there are specialists on different topics within the dream that are better than the others on particular topics in the dream, but that's of secondary importance. That is really not what we hear about. So we're really about sharing and describing what deeply resonates with that basic space of the awareness or presence. So everyone has already, well everyone was born in that state of undisturbed, undistracted presence-awareness.
Then we learned language and then the attention started prioritizing the stories over the existence itself. But we all know that natural state. We all know the bliss of being if we are undisturbed by the belief going into the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt. It doesn't mean those things won't show up, they show up. But instead of taking them to be reality, we see another amazing daydream, amazing daydream. They're all incredible. They could have been nothing, and there really is nothing. And it appears dressed up as this incredible moment in the costume of separate self, in the costume of the body. So this is to be celebrated, the daydreams as they show up are all to be included, are all to be recognized for what they are and enjoyed.
This is the expression, the life essence or one essence as Bob says. By the way there is already a book available, the link is on the website. We republished the book called One Essence, Expressing and Appearing as Everything. It's a beautiful little transcript that Gilbert edited and you can buy it from Amazon as a Kindle or you can buy it. I already ordered a few copies, we should have it on the table maybe by the next week. So it is about the One Essence, appearing and expressing as everything, appearing and expressing as the dream. I Am the One, I Am the One. The essence of our expression is love in action, is moving into.
And of course it kind of feels counterintuitive when we're talking about someone being in a hospital, in a lot of discomfort or pain, or worse yet, on tragedies or accidents or heartbreaks or stuff like this. But we know that for anything to be able to appear, it has to be known through the dualistic pair of opposites. There is no possibility of knowing one without the other. You only know pleasure because you know pain. You only know day because you know night. So that's how the manifestation works. We have the beautiful painting of Tristan behind. The beauty of the painting comes from having both dark and light black and white If there was just an empty canvas there would be nothing to love on it So the duality And I had the...
People have a lot of concepts about what the nonduality is and what it isn't. And lately I had a little conversation with a dear friend who says, Oh, you are denying duality. Just wow! Where is that brilliant idea coming from? Beautiful! Denying duality. Of course, I have to appear as dualistic expression to deny duality, right? So, the denial of duality is a good joke. Because within the dream, of course, for the dream to exist, for anything to exist, it has to appear dualistically. But the nature, the essence of it is nondual. And this is where we come back to the essence, to recognize the One behind all of the expressions, to see that omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience behind every form.
In this way, it's just so much easier to love them all, even though they may be dark or painful, Because having a bigger picture or greater understanding of the nature of the expression, it is totally understandable, it is totally justifiable. It is really you become one with that essence. There is no objection arising anymore. There is no resistance arising. It's just the sense of all. So this is really about every one of you knowing and understanding that you are. And from knowing and understanding that you are, see what sorts of insights, see what comes out, what beautiful little expressions. Because the mere fact that we can't really give it to anyone, like Bob has that funny analogy about the peacock feather that He got from our friend Tony who passed away a couple of years ago that they are belief systems in which you tap someone, give them Shaktipat or whatever and they suddenly awaken.
Well, there has to be a differentiation to start with. You have to be above that someone. That someone has to be separate and there has to be something to give. While there is nothing to give, it is really just to relax, Resonate with that natural knowing. Recognize that it is always and ever here. Reflect on that and just share, just describe it because the whole gathering is not to gain, it's just to share, to bring that frequency of clarity into the picture so it rings home, It rings true because innately we all know it, innately we all are it. So would anyone like to start and tell us how it actually sits with you when you just dive deeply into that life, that heart of hearts, that essence, and see what comes out from that presence?
What's easy, what's totally recognizable, what becomes clear and obvious, like how obvious it is of all what Bob is always telling us, that you couldn't possibly be the body-mind because the body-mind is the flux, is the change, is the dance. But the presence that is aware of that change is here, or other insights that would come To you, because it is really about seeing itself and expressing itself through everyone as it does all the time, but without the filter of the daydream. When the daydream comes up, the daydream is recognized, gently put aside and it comes through without the filter of the daydream, without the self-concept without the idea that I am something or the other That I have confidence that is something low or high or whatever There is no need for any self when you land in that heart of essence of the being See what comes up, see what flows out from that space.
The question, Who am I or what am I, does it even arise? Is there even a need for the answer for that question? Bob usually gives us a spiel because the spiel actually prepares people to drop off the idea of how do I do that? How do I get to the silence? How do I do it in the daily life? How do I do it when I walk out of this meeting? It kills that question because there is no I and there is no I. There is no how to do because there is no doer. So there is really nothing to do. It is really about relaxing into that essence that you already are, that awareness of presence that you already fully embrace and are.
And see what comes up in the moment. If this bits and pieces of daydream comes up, lovely. Thank you. Next one. So, anyone would like to start? Thank you for the microphone, which is a shoehorn. So, it's unclear to me that Kat reminded me there's nothing that I don't know already. I'm in a position to say no, there are things that I don't know, but nevertheless when I clear enough to know them eventually in non-existence of time, Then, automatically, inevitably, I will agree with the cat, with the guru that reminds me I already know everything. So, the package of I Am is whole and complete.
I just need to unbox it and enjoy it. It's a whole, complete production. Absolutely, thank you. I just comment on that because by no means I suggest that everyone knows everything. I can tell you honestly, I know so very little and less and less day by day, really. I mean 5, 10, 20 years ago I had so much more information that I thought that this is something that I know. Today I know very, very little. I hardly ever know anything anymore. If there is something that I know and some of you catch me on that, please, poke me, give me a little hinge because that's again something that I will see dropping away.
I had so much information about stuff and they are all dropping away because those are concepts, those are not necessary, there is absolutely no need to know anything or everything. And there is one thing that we all know equally and that is undeniable. That is the fact that you exist. Existence. You can't say, oh no, I don't exist. Because even to say, I don't exist, there is existence. You don't know what it is that exists. You don't know what you are. I have no idea what it is that says I exist. I don't know what says it. It's just saying, happening. But there is a sense of existence that is here and is equally there in everyone.
That's the only thing. So ultimately, as you correctly mentioned, we all have same experiencing in essence. It's just impossible to have different experiences. What is possible is to have different viewpoints of same source. Yes. I would shut up. Yes, beautiful. And it is about dropping the viewpoints, having none. Thank you. What we are inherently is just the emptiness of not knowing anything at all. If we know something, we're in trouble. We've made this world into something real, concrete, and with certain ramifications and outcomes and all the rest of it that comes along with that. But of course all of that is completely empty when you look at it.
Nothing has any importance or any outcome, any meaning at all here. But as we come into that place where we sit in the unknowing of it all, then we're given everything. As we don't seek to have anything at all, to be completely without any need for anything at all, it will all be given. That's the thing. We are either engaged in this ego-mind capability or we are just simply that which is looking and being aware of it arising and falling. Of that which arises and falls we know nothing, but we are in that prepared to be just the witness, the eternal witness of this great unfolding, All of these are the manifestation.
What is that greatness, agadetic quote, Love all of the dream or none of the dream? Yes, that is one of the favorites of Bob's quote. He says, the dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you love one part of it and not the other. And then it says... Make the smallest distinction. Yeah? No, that was Xin Xin Ming. But this one on Nisargadatta, it says, Leave the dream to itself and the rest will be done for you. That's what Peter was saying. That's where I saw the correlation. And Xin Xin Ming says, Make the smallest distinction, however, and the earth and heaven will be set...
The Heaven and Earth will be set infinitely apart. And that Bob explains beautifully how the Heaven and Earth can't really be separated because Heaven is the sky, is the space, and Earth is the appearance in the skies. They're interdependent, they want really. But the concept separates them infinitely, the idea separates them. And we have couple of people commenting from online. We have good morning messages and lovely to see you all and the beautiful clarity and the love this. And Kathy says, well said, we are everything. And Vivek says, GM, love to all. Love right back to you all. So back to you, anyone would like to express that one essence, showing how it appears as everything?
There you go. Let's see. Gracias. So I was just thinking, you know, everyone who's here will say Bob because most of us came here originally because of Bob. You know this Bob he points you back towards yourself and then at some point you also have to let go of Bob the idea of Bob and see what it is that he really pointing at And yeah that all I I wanted to say The people who are pointing you drop them as well Oh definitely Wonderful. That is actually his heartfelt wish. And he also often talks about it on the meetings. He is bringing the analogy and what a better time to talk about it if not the Easter Sunday.
But Jesus being worshipped and all the messengers being worshipped instead of seeing the message that they carry. So it really isn't about the messenger, it is about the message. And he can't stress enough on how he is no different to anyone, how he is just another pattern, shape and form, And how one pattern can tell anything to another pattern. It is just a joyous dance or expression. But yes, there is totally no superiority. And thank you for bringing it up. It's really, really big part of the teaching. Don't get attached to the messenger. And I love what he says. He says, I'm not talking to anybody.
I'm talking to that I Am that I Am. Yes. And when Christ said, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, He wasn't talking about himself, he was talking about the I Am, that presence that you are. Appropriate to say on Easter Sunday. Very. I love how he draws in lots of different things. Because, you know, if you've got a thorn in your hand and you get a bit of another thorn, you can dig it out. And then it's healed. It's the same as when you realize you're not the story, neither is anybody else. You know? Yeah. And that nothing appears without that awareness.
You know? Or take the plug out of the computer and that's end of story, you know? Raman and Maharshi said throw away both of the thorns. Don't hold onto them. Say it out loud. That's right. That's it. I don't know if they heard you. You had no mic. Raman and Maharshi said throw away both the thorns. We tend to hang on to one because you know, you're going to get another thorn. Yeah, yeah. But what, as much as we are totally not to perceive Bob as superior or as a guru or as the enlightened one, because there is no such thing, we can still totally love him as the dearest friend, because what a wonderful friend he is.
Always available and always present and so infinitely patient. I can't tell you on how many ways, because I live with him daily right now in the hospital. He inspires me with that sort of incredible serenity and joy of being patient because, well, I could only see it for the last seven and a half years, how many situations, seemingly The unmanageable he went through and how many people sometimes really out crazy he's been holding space for. Oh, absolutely. It's so amazing. I mean, yes, love the man by all means, but don't ever worship him or think he's superior. He might have the character qualities coming with deconditioning and with age and with seeing through I HALAJAN ZAMUNI OZIWI KURMAYASTANSI, I AAM THAT, PRAMAHARAN SHARAMI, I AAM THAJARAN, PRABHUTI, AI THAJARAN, I AAM THAJARAN, PRABHUTI, AI AAM THAJARAN, I AAM THAJARAN, SKATARI, I NAJARAN, KURUMI GORJA, I SEMPRE YASAKI.
I am a woman I am a woman And when I think about the hours and hours and hours of selfless pointing when there was a stuck here when things were stuck when I just think about all that, it's just overwhelming because I don't think there's anyone else on the planet that I know who's been as patient and tolerant. When you think about where it came from, where he didn't have time for himself, let alone anyone else initially, 63 years ago, and then that whole thing was turned around so that his life of selfless pointing is an incredible parable example of how truth eats away the lie.
And nobody ever did anything. That's right. So I just had to say that. Beautiful. Patience is an interesting thing. What is it? What is patience? Good question. Isn't it just being with what is? My first teacher said, the only time you need patience is when you're impatient. So it's all relative, isn't it? Just being with what is without going with the mind and its stories about me, me, me, me. It's simple, it's effortless because it's what is. I am the one who is. So we can't even put the quality of patience on the problem. He's just being with the what is. It's quite obvious. I went to visit him the first time I went to see him.
And it was remarkable just to recognize that simplicity of being and translucent consciousness. You know, there was pain and there's, you know, he did complain a little bit now and then, but, you know, just amazing. And we have that quality ourselves, just recognizing it. That's it. Beautiful. Acceptance is what love is. When you love somebody you totally accept them no matter what they do or what they say. Which is a reflection of the truth, absolutely isn't it? We all exist in the field of love really. We're totally accepted in that because nothing that we can do can shake what love is. Give it. Alright. Alright.
Give me a thank you Jesus. I think Vivek says selfless pointing comes from being and love for the one essence. Yeah, it is beautiful. So it really is, again, those meetings with the invitation to resonate with that heart or essence, that one essence, that energy, relax into it and see what sort of beautiful selfless pointing will come through you. Because that will be yours. That is really bringing love back to itself, Rather than scattering it around, transforming it into preferences of whatever is happening, problems arising and all the drama that comes up on that basic screen. And engaging with the drama, scattering attention with the drama and completely ignoring that source of all love.
So it is really about of the existence of the Self The perception of the doership, of the responsibility, which are operational system of the narrative and are as good as it gets for that programming, but they are not ideal. Much better, easier, more organic and more truthful way of looking at this is to just see how the life is unfolding. See how it is. Tony, can you open the door? There's someone there. Thank you. How the life is leaving you. How the problems are transforming and changing. How the perceptions and everything are changing. Oh, thank you Gilbert. Yes, how life is actually looking after everything.
And it's just organizing another seat. It is all life. It's really about recognizing the one life behind everything. One life behind every thought, even negative thoughts, is also transformation of the life essence. And seeing the life behind the thought, the thought instead of causing guilt, it causes, wow! Or it causes, oh, interesting! Everything becomes really suddenly amazing, interesting. Even if the resistance comes up, Oh, wow, interesting! You're learning how the life responds to itself, how it looks at itself, how it interacts with itself. Seemingly playing the characters, playing the body and the world, playing that there is a separation. It is a dream, it is a play, but it is an incredible dream.
It's a dream that when it is seen for what it is, it's free from suffering. It's not free from discomfort, it's not free from pain-pleasure dynamics, but it's free from the resistance, it's free from illusion of doership and control. It's free to relax and trust that this movement that caused perturbance or distractions or storm, It will even itself and resolve itself and seeing how it happens. And loving it, how it happens, just holding space, being like Peter said, witnessing, being the witnessing presence for the life to give us this incredible spectacle, this incredible performance, constantly changing. And seeing the little bits and pieces of, like Cayman was mentioning, viewpoints, they all arise within us well.
The viewpoints arising from different moods, different condition of the body-mind, different interaction of the world. Like the viewpoint arising being positive or negative or anything in between. The viewpoint conditioned by the news, conditioned by... All those little different points of perception are just part of this incredible performance of life. And seen for what they are, there is no attachment to them. There is no idea that, oh, this is my opinion, this is correct, this is right. And someone who is Christian or someone who is Buddhist or Muslim or whoever, they are wrong, they didn't get it. Or someone who is not a nondualist is wrong.
Any sort of identity or any sort of assumption of the perspective or view or description which is considered to be correct and only the right one, drops away. It just eases off. And all of them are recognized as just another piece of performance appearing on the screen. And all of them are welcome with, ah, wow, piece of conditioning came up. Oh, interesting. I was chatting with Julia. All this incredibly ridiculous conditioning of always fainting when I saw a piece of blood or a piece of open wound. That's gone! I had medical course when I was studying to be ship's officer, because second officer is usually the nurse on the ship.
And I had the doctor calling the ambulance, no, there must be something wrong. She's just describing things, just describing the burns. Is that imagination going, creating things that are so disturbing for the body? I was the nurse when I was the second officer and I did have the burns to look after. And I never fainted in real life, thankfully. But this pattern is gone. How welcoming, how lovely. And a lot of other patterns. But the thousands of them will still come. And in the absence of resistance, the pattern of judgment, The pattern of attachment to something or the other, even the pattern of belief in some political party or something, or whatever the pattern comes, in the absence of attachment and resistance to the pattern, all of them are wow!
Oh, this one's still there! Oh, amazing! Impatience, oh wow, hello! There is no sense of guilt or shame because it doesn't belong to anyone. It isn't my pattern. It is something that comes up in this and this one has been created by the whole universe contributing and conditioning it through every past experience that this body went through. And talking about past experience, assumption of time, which is valid in the dream. We love to deny the time because it is a wonderful pointer, but within the dream it is valid. Every dream has its time frame, although some may have it widely distorted. Same with psychedelics, they will have the time squinted, distorted and scrambled.
But it is that component which kind of helps the totality to be stretched and sliced so it is visible in sequences. How brilliant! But isn't it interesting how everything is resolved if you leave it alone? Yes. I just think it's so interesting to watch. Yeah. Yeah, would anyone like to share on that? How things just find its flow and resolve and heal without any... When there's no resistance to what is, that's what happens. Interesting to watch. Yeah. Well, if you can see that the Easter Bunny has always been a myth, you won't be as upset. Say it again to the mic. You can see that the Easter Bunny has always been a myth, you know.
It always has been. And I guess it's funny to be able to sometimes catch the unfolding of the Easter Bunny shows up. I'm babbling not very well this morning, but in my, you know, this me who's kind of the Easter Bunny is what I'm saying. I'm tired. I'll shut up. He's so much better at pointing. You go. Easter Bunny. Such a beautiful ancient mythology. The cavemen were searching for those eggs. Anyone want to open it? And share Easter Bunny? Consciousness, you know, what is consciousness? Seriously, what is consciousness? It's not chocolate. Can't do it. Just... There you go. Give it around. You know, Bob always used to say, it's simple, it's so simple.
So simple. There's nothing more simple than simple. So you know consciousness is there but you can say what it is Nobody ever defined what consciousness is because the definition is content of consciousness Like the matter is never the territory Beautiful And this is always the case, you know. It doesn't matter. Like Bob says, you can't work it out in the mind. No, it's not in the mind, no. So the consciousness is there. So acknowledge that you're conscious and aware, you're here now, but you don't know what the consciousness is. You can't negate it. People who go to university and study all these things, it's just the content of consciousness.
They make a living out of it maybe or maybe they don't. That doesn't matter. What is consciousness? For yourself, you can sit with that and see what you can find. What is consciousness? You can't pin it down, but you can't negate it. And that is the, you know, Nisargadatta and Siddharamashivaya said the master key is the I Am. And the I Am is the expression in words of that consciousness. And it's the same consciousness in every sentient being. It's not two. It's this, you know, this consciousness in every so-called person in this room is the same consciousness. displaying itself as a dynamic display of awareness and the idea of separation as Bob points out really begins when that child looks out at something in the room and says that's not me.
That's not me. So there's a sense of vulnerability and then from then on stories and events are added to that image of self-me The You're not separate from it. It's not a mystery. It's only a mystery when we try and conceptualize it and turn it into something to achieve. Like Raman Maharshi said, you are the infinite being. Then you take yourself to be a limited creature. Then you invent sadhanas, which means methods and practices. And you apply these methods and practices to these non-existing limitations. So how can they solve them? How can they resolve these problems? It can't, because it's all conceptual. But the first line is, you are that infinite being.
And then this dream of separation appears. Education, society, parents, they all contribute to this dream. Oh, my beautiful little boy. The Easter Bunny is coming, you'll get a nice chocolate egg. Happy Easter. Happy Easter. Yeah, that was beautiful. I don't know if you guys heard him, maybe you can come a bit closer, because the guys there at the end of the room, they know it, but it's still, It's still a beautiful way of... it's just the poetry, it's just the music to really talk back about it. I love when you said, you know, the consciousness can't be described, of course, because any description is the content of it.
And it applies to everything, like the I, the me, the self-description that we tend to have. I Am This, I Am That, I Know Who I Am, No, I Don't Know Who I Am, I Have To Find Myself. What is that? That's the content of consciousness. You are the consciousness. I love how Helen says we are the context not the content Simple It always Hmm Yes too simple It that simple that we miss it JB says, Bob speaks of labels not being the thing. The me's world consists of nothing but labels except in dreamless sleep. Everyone has many roles or labels that they play in life which are impermanent, but not one single role or words can define what is always here and undefinable.
Yeah, beautifully said, absolutely. Yeah, you can see how the perception comes with the label straight away, how the world is constructed by naming it and recognizing it, by relating it to the past images that we've seen before. Ah, that's the window, yeah, how do I know? Of course, I know it's from the past. So now, if I misconstrue it and I see it as something else, like Bob was on the first day after the surgery, I am very happy to be here. We don't give it as much credibility as we usually do in the normal life. When I see someone, oh, they gave me a stinky eye, they hate me, oh, they have a problem with me, I wonder what's their problem, I wonder how am I going to deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and goes the story.
And none of that may actually be the actuality, and even if it is, who cares? That's just how elements in the dream, within the dream, interact with each other. What does it have to do with me? Like Gilbert was saying, you know, you see what is not me. What's not me? Everything perceivable or conceivable is not me. The body is not me. The mind is not me. The thought is not me. So what is the me? That is, yeah, brilliant. It takes a lot of work too, doesn't it? You know, to exist in the me, you really have to bloody reinforce the shit out of it, don't you?
Whereas the opposite, negation is quite lovely. I think that was beautiful. Thank you. The me really is psychological suffering. And what I say often is psychological suffering is unnecessary. Now, is there a rational being anywhere on this planet that will argue about that? Who's going to argue in favour of psychological suffering? No one, unless they're mad. So it's very simple. Psychological suffering is unnecessary. So if it's coming up, you need to question it. Where's this coming from? What's it based on? And it will resolve itself. But if the me runs off with it, you know, and we all know people who are constantly complaining and telling, you know, the unfortunate limitations of their life and why does it always happen to me?
It's like, well, have a look, you know, have a look. Can you find that me? What is it? Why continue to buy into this bullshit story of me The Julia. I was just thinking about the question of the looking, you know, of who's trying to figure this out And recently there was a noticing of the National Association of the Deaf I'm going to answer it. Does anyone here like to say something? Anybody feeling as if they don't get it? Everybody's got it. I got it a little bit. So for the other little bit, I'm going to remind myself, which is everything, Everything that Raman Maharshi also mentioned that one must, one must, he didn't say one should, he said one must attend the effort of compulsory meditation for certain realization.
I've heard from Sadhguru, the founder of Isha Foundation, yesterday that Ramana Maharshi was sitting and doing nothing. Snake bite into his thigh and worms come out of the infected wound. He kept doing nothing and sitting. I just want to say that according to my understanding and my experiences, there is something to do and that is doing nothing. by sitting and relaxing all the muscles, specifically face, neck and chest, because in my understanding that's where my me resides. And the stuff that a me made from is resistance and fear. And the reason that I'm shaking is unknown. So I definitely have things to work on and when I reach to nothing then I will agree with you.
When you mentioned there is no self to do anything or there is nothing to do. So in the future I will become I am, you know, and I'm proud myself to say it honestly. And I shouldn't say it. Can you do nothing? Yes, that's what I'm doing now. I've got a snake in the car. I do everything, I'm not gonna do nothing. Snakes are beautiful creatures, same as other species, like toad. And one thing about the psychedelics, you know, I think I'm misunderstanding that you mentioned experiencing of psychedelics are distorted reality. Well, I would like to, with arrogance, refer you to a scientist who is interested in nonduality named Deepak Chopra.
He mentioned, if the psychedelics are so and so, then ask yourself the question, why our brain has got receptors to these substances? Why is the sky blue? I didn't understand that. But because we agree nothing is everything, so I thank you for nothing. Regarding psychedelics, I think visually they give you a distorted view of reality and mentally and yet in the heart they show there's no separation. But also what I was saying and I think, Heiman, you misheard me, I said they
Do you distort the sense of time? Yes. Yes, so what else distorts the sense of time? Let's say if you have the accident and suddenly everything slows down.
Or you're waiting patiently for something. Time is such a construct that is very, very easily distorted. In the dream at night it's also distorted. We're not really talking about the reality because reality is beyond description. So the description that you get from the reality when you're in psychedelic or when you're under hypnosis or drunk or when you're in your dream or when you're in your waking dream, that's just something completely beyond our scope of investigation because it doesn't really matter. It is a content. But yes, thank you for your insight into the inner guidance that you get regarding relaxation. Relaxation is a beautiful pointer into returning back out of all the tensions and resistances, back into the natural state.
It may happen without the doership taking credit for it. It may happen in the absence. If for you it happens with the doer, oh, I'm responsible to try to relax, okay, that's how the life unfolds. www.nisargad.com.tr Thank you for sharing that. This is resonating, relaxing, recognizing, reflecting on pointers. That's all what is in that whole scrambled ideas of pointing beyond ideas. I've got a lot to work on. That's the concept here, why not? There's a GPS, there's two types of GPS, specific GPS and a fundamental GPS. My fundamental GPS is Bob, Nisargadatta, Raman Maharshi, psychedelics. They're all content of my experience. They came so they will go.
What is nature of my experience, which doesn't come and go, is the fundamental GPS. Therefore, I use the phrase that forget about the messenger. It's always about the message. Message, message, message. Message, message. Good. Thank you for message. Thank you. Perhaps you could say it's what the message is pointing at instead of the message itself. I think that is the point. It's not even the message. It's going beyond the message itself and just looking there. Who's looking at the message and then staying with that without concluding? I don't know. You can correct me. I haven't got the time to correct you. I'm sorry. I am not one pointer, I mean pointers are just pointing at that no thing, but, and there are thousands of them, you know, there are new pointers bubbling up in various people, so-called people.
But one pointer is consciousness is all there is, you know, consciousness is all there is. And that's like a foundation stone. All of the stories from anyone are all built conceptual constructs as content of consciousness. But consciousness is all there is, is the base. You can't get away from it. But if you, like Nisargadatta said, be conscious of the consciousness. Just try that You can describe what it is Be conscious of the consciousness But in effect the mind kind of empties itself All the stories sort of move away Be conscious of the consciousness. And maybe everyone's read I Am That, the first book done by Morris Friedman of Nisargadatta.
It was published in two volumes, quite thick. And at the very beginning of the book, he describes the one instruction that his guru, Siddharam Meshwar, gave to him. And that instruction was basically, stay with that I am. Not the words, but that sense of presence, or whatever you want to call it. And Nisargadatta says, within the space of three, he gave every spare moment to it. What do we give our spare moments to, by the way? He gave every spare moment to it, to the task. And within the space of three years, the job was done. I'm paraphrasing, it's not word for word. But, you know, and when this has been mentioned, a lot of folk go, oh, three years, yeah, I can do that.
Three years, missing the point altogether. But it's at the beginning of the book. And the book is composed of meetings and translations from meetings or transcripts. But that, and think of Nisargadatta and the effect of his, you know, his realisation, if you like, has had, you know, in the world. And it was basically from one task, stay with the I Am. Watch what comes up that tries to take you away from it. Another beautiful thing Bob says is just watch the mind and see how it operates. It's a simple sentence and it kind of may seem impossible, but we can watch the mind, see how it operates.
The mind is not a trickster, it's just a mechanical, well what is it? What is the mind? The mind is the mind. You can't even define what the mind is. But in the scheme of things, it's an activity and we put the word mind on it and then we blame the mind, you know, blah, blah, blah, or we praise the mind. But there is no such thing as mind. Mind is consciousness. What is consciousness? You can't define it, but you can sort of be affectionate towards it and let it be. The That intelligence, it becomes obvious that there is no me. So it's very simple, but seemingly very, very difficult.
Almost impossible. Seemingly. I was just going to say it's interesting you talking about that. www.nisargad.com www Like what his name said The It's like the moment before a description pops up and then the description is just being heard and listened to and that's all that's going on but there's a complete forgetting of what was there before that description was ever there. Before that there might have been some sensations moving around quite a bit but you're not describing them. There's no description popping up yet, so there's no thought about it. Or there might be just a kind of awareness that that thinking isn't happening. This is different from when it was.
Yeah. And then the description pops up and you're in that bubble and that's that, you know. So I spend my whole time trying to drop the triggers. The moment I'm cleaning up, because waking up is sort of get, but it lasts like about 30, you know, half a second. And the triggers come in just all the time. And somebody's mentioned the whole cleaning up, waking up, growing up thing, which I just love, love concepts, you know. So when you are growing up, you trigger it into something quite relaxed or neutral. Like, oh, there's that damn pattern again, that always shows up. Or if you're not very grown up, you're like, that fucking bastard did that to me again, you know.
And you believe, you know, that's the belief. But for me, like, the cleaning up is just all of the, you know, somewhere, some, you know, you know, it'd be a story to say where it ever came from. There was some kind of thing you might call a trauma, and then there's a bunch of reactions ever after. Until they're sat, you sit at the coalface of those feelings and notice things and they tend to disappear. But, so I have millions of triggers, it's like, you know, oh I come here, oh that's right, I'm supposed to sit here in awakeness for a little bit, you know. I manage ten minutes a day and like the last times it was that whole session.
I won't say what there was, but there wasn't that description process happening. And, you know, it lasted from like 11 to 11.10 today. I am a woman. I am sorry, I am sorry. I am a member of the IAEA, I am a member of the IAEA. Like growing up just happens, happens of its own. Well in your definition of what's the growing up is that's beautiful. Like growing up for me is like spirodynamics It just a modality of seeing how we become it a completely dualistic thing but as we become less fearful and less and we move out of our protective self bubble you know it happens in nations it happens in people you know it happens in moments, there's less and less defensiveness, self-defensiveness going on.
And I was just reading an early excerpt I hadn't come across. Somebody just asked thousands of people, what do you think a mature adult is like? And the most mature one they could come up with at the time, it's given a colour turquoise, I just found this statement the other day saying people at that level really deeply accept in every way that they just don't know anything and so they go for experience instead. So they just sit with the experiences. And because this comes out of a dual way of looking at things, in some ways for me it I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
I think it's easier to apply to the daily life than the same thing said in a nondual setting in a way. So, you know, I was able to sort of, yeah, what if I truly on every level really don't know what's going to happen next. Then, yeah, I don't mind this freak out I'm having at the lovers being split apart in the K-drama, you know. I'm just feeling the sensation of it. Yeah, because I don't know what's going to happen next, so it doesn't matter. Yeah, it truly doesn't matter. So yeah, it's just finding, just things pop up in experience that give you a different experience, and sometimes there's less definition going on.
And that's all, let's say, yeah. You're either in definition or you're not. Yeah, that's beautiful. The question is, who's it all happening to? Who owns these million triggers? Me. Is the me real? The me is a total fiction. So the triggers are also a fiction. That's all, it's as simple as it is. You've got to see that the me, you know, there's no prescription, but seeing that the me doesn't exist is an incredible relief. And you can't pretend to have seen through the me. I've heard people say, oh yeah, I've seen through the me. And then the next minute they're telling you all these traumas and things, you know.
So, you know, nobody can do it for you. Is there a me? Find out. As Bob says, that idiot up there said there's no me. Is he right or is he wrong? I'll find out for myself. Kat started off earlier about just knowing this is all passing through and maybe you know these greedy little grabby hands, I want to grab them. And it's like, no, no, no, just see there. And then it pulls, you know, clouds just. And I don't know what Bob exactly would say but probably the same message, you know, just about thoughts. And at the same time, I actually really love the way, I have a soft spot, I love the way, Tonya, you describe things, because the way you describe it, it really doesn't involve much of the attachment to the content.
You describe what is arising. The trigger is arising, you call it trigger, yes, that's the word that kind of seems to have some sort of a judgment on it. But at the same time, I can describe the same way the behavior of my cat. I put on the vacuum cleaner and that's a trigger and the cat is responding to it. And there is no story about that, oh, I should let go of that trigger. The cat is absolutely happy. I mean, I don't really know the level of happiness of my cats, but they appear quite happy to actually continually be triggered. And I am triggered because when I put the vacuum I also open the door for them to hide.
Where is it coming from? We have no story. Do we try to fix it? No we don't. He will, he may live with the trigger for another ten years and that's not a problem. Just a movement too or they're able to move you too? Yes. It's just, yeah, just the movement and then, you know, the... Just a movement or not? There's a movement to certain truth in what there isn't. It's nothing to do with any definition of me that might pop up. For example, once I first got introduced to nonduality, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, me doesn't make any sense at all. Like, free will's never made sense here, but me, yeah, that's obvious, that doesn't make sense, you know.
There's no noticing of anything like that. And that belief, that definition never comes up ever since then. Yeah, that underlines it all. That's why I really, really appreciate and enjoy your descriptions because for those of you who don't know, Tonya used to come to the meetings a few years ago and right from almost like hearing Bob for the first time, hearing the description of the whole reality minus the idea of me that has control, free will and takes credit for everything, She said, oh shit, that makes total sense. That is just so much easier way of perceiving and describing the world than having that little actor introduced in the narrative.
Yes, just on the entrance. And she straight away, because she's got absolutely brilliant brain, they call it autistic, but it's really an extra genius spin on it, All of this, in which suddenly everything got recalculated. Oh, yeah, oh my God, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. The whole world, the whole understanding of the way the universe operates, of course. But yes, the body has been through certain conditioning, just like our cat with the vacuum cleaner, which I have no idea what happened, just like you have dogs in the shelters, Just like you have people who were landing to the country on the boat and were abused or raped or anything, this body behaves in the conditioned way, just like any other programmable biocomputer.
It responds to the triggers. But the way she's describing it, of course, some of the triggers are deeply emotionally upsetting, Because that's a sensitive machinery. So that deep emotional upset is part of it. But does it belong to me? No. That's the freedom now. Is there a discomfort? Absolutely. Is there a deep suffering? Is it? Not really. Not really. Everything's quite neutral. That easy. Just... But she actually just saw that, oh yeah, of course. It's just so much more simple and logical to take out that imagined character. Takes a genius, but it is doable. Anyone can see it. I mean, it may not be just an instant click like this, but looking and checking.
Like Gilbert was saying, yeah, nobody can do it for you. Or like Nisargadatta and everyone was saying, just, you know, who is doing it? Who is looking at the I am? Nisargadatta actually, when Gilbert was saying, I remembered, Bob had printed out And they are there on the table if anyone wants to take home some of the favorite phrases from Nisargadatta. And I think the very first one is the diamond of good fortune is to stay with the I Am to the exclusion of everything else. He called it a diamond, Nisargadatta, of good fortune. How beautiful. He had really poetic descriptions. So just, and who is doing it?
Who is staying? Who gives a shit? Really? I mean really? Are we gonna just dig into semantics of the language? What does it matter? Is the pointer touching your heart? Wonderful. Take that diamond. Is it not? Forget about it. Pick the next one. This is about finding resonance with what is already deeply known within you, in your heart, what you know. If there is something that triggers or irritates or doesn't sit right, forget about it. Don't bother because bothering with that, dissecting it, tearing it apart, proving it wrong, what are you doing now? Daydreaming in your mind again back in the labyrinth, in the maze of that cloud, dark cloud of I am right.
What a waste of time. Every pointer is just a pointer like Gilbert was saying it is a content of the consciousness it is not a consciousness It is just a thorn which is to be thrown away So if the pointer touches your heart, resonates, wonderful, embrace it. If you have the pointer that you would like to share, bring up, that touches your heart, that resonates, please share it because they are diamonds, they are real diamonds. I am a non-duality person. I had my first experience with nonduality and it was with a random guy and he got me to write down, spend some time writing down my life story.
So I spent the whole night writing this thing down and I was writing and when you start writing there's a lot of memories that pop up so there's quite a lot to write and you get on a good flow and I'm thinking man this guy's going to be blown away by this story. I wrote this thing like four or five pages long and he got it. He's like, shit, I've never had anyone write me a story that long. He's like, I was like, you know, thinking to myself, wow, I wonder what he thinks of my story. This must be a pretty, pretty unique story. And he said, I didn't read it, but I've only got one question for you.
And that is, are you a story? And I was like, I don't know how I know this answer, but no, a modest story. So that was a really good pointing. That was my initial sort of, there was quite a strong belief in the story up until that point. And then at that point that kind of opened. And it reminded me, I went to see Gangaji when she was here. And, you know, it was quite a long session and there was a lot of people there and there was lots of questions and she gave lots of answers and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And the one thing that came out of that is you're not the story you think you are.
And you're not any other story about anybody else. It's a pretty simple question you just know the answer to. If you genuinely just ask yourself that question, are you a story? It sounds stupid to say, yeah, I'm a story. Even logically thinking about it doesn't make any sense. That's what people value these days is logic. If you want to ask yourself a pretty strong logical question, are you a story, it's going to be no. Whether that deeply resonates with you or not, there's the answer there that sort of opens you. And who was that? His name's Max Verham. He's a French guy. I spent time watching him on YouTube and judging him.
One of Bob's simple questions is, are you unaware right now? Ten minutes to go. Are you unaware right now? Yeah, very good question. And spontaneously that knowledge, no, I'm aware, it comes, not the words, it's a recognition. And then the next question is, what did you do to be aware? Nothing. It's spontaneous. It's there already. It's already so. So this idea of me trying to do Sudhana's methods and practices, trying to knock into shape some image of myself to be enlightened is complete In the end I was in the middle of the room with my son, and I was watching this book and I thought, how did the book come to be?
I remember also when you talk about the story of me when you actually relate in yourself within yourself what am I who am I the easy way to look is what offends you What is it? I remember my first husband said something joking about my Tibetan bowls and my gongs, which were just such sacred things that I put so much of heart, I value it so highly. And instead of calling them Tibetan bowls, he kind of called them your big salad bowls. And God, it was like a knife in my heart. He doesn't understand my value, my affection towards those sacred music instruments. It's not music really, just therapeutic sort of.
And what was there that was offended? What took the offense? What was that association with the story, identification with that healing that comes from those sacred thousands of years old, whatever the story was with those things that got offended? And you might have examples in your own life when you felt that someone called you a name. I remember, this was really even more funny, when I got together with Bob already about seven and a half years ago. I was in a relationship with a man who was a couple of years ago and we throughout that time had very, very few clashes, very few and very short clashes.
But there was one that I remember very, very briefly when he actually screamed, yelled at me for I don't even, I have no idea what it was about. But it was just a little clash and he says, oh, I see why your ex-husband left you. And I started like, how am I not gonna laugh right now? How am I gonna keep it serious to have that theater play a little bit longer? Because it is so clear and obvious that he is actually trying to hurt me right now. I have to look hurt. And of course, two minutes later, we were both laughing because it was funny.
The pattern that came out had some sort of a dynamic of finding the soft spot, of finding something to push, and it just wasn't responding. And to even see that, I welcomed that attempt, and I actually prized him for that attempt, which of course he didn't take credit. It wasn't him, he didn't do it. It was the old pattern that came out. And that old pattern which maybe two years earlier would completely devastate me and would put me into tears and crying. How horrible thing to say. And it was laughable. But we all remember moments when things that were said to us were deeply wounding.
What is it? Oh, you stupid. Oh, you worth nothing. Oh, you shame on you. Isn't that, isn't that, what is it that feels that this is about me? That, oh, maybe there is some truth in it. Maybe I'm really stupid. Maybe they see the truth. Maybe I have to hide it deeper. Maybe there is something inherently wrong with me I Am Self-Doubt, I Am Nothing, I Am Nothing. Nothing. But that's a great news. If you are nothing, who is there to feel wounded? Who is there to feel offended? Now you're invulnerable, like Nisargadatta used to call Bob Bhishma. Indestructible. You can throw the arrows offenses anything and nothing touches you The body can be destroyed and it will be that fine But the consciousness the life that is undestructible and invulnerable It's a great invitation to even look what gets wounded, what is that vulnerability and Where does it sit and what is the presumption underlying it?
You're nothing. You really are nothing. And that nothing, the nature of nothing, everything's nothing. So you're obviously everything too, because you share the nothing nature of everything. So in that one, you don't really have to locate yourself anywhere And you don't have to identify yourself as anything at all. The concept, everything, nothing, they're both equally invalid, neutral, like Tony says, they all get neutral, they don't matter. So that's a wonderful news to find that there is no one there, there's nothing there that could take on board any judgment. And judgment can be right. It can be right. You know, if someone tells me, Oh, you are whatever, I mean, gosh, call me anything.
Like, let's say you're always late or you're always judging or you're always this, you have strong concepts on that. Well, yeah, maybe that's correct about the body. But what does it have to say about me, about the consciousness? Maybe that's correct about the body-mind. Oh, your accent is harsh and Polish. Yeah, it is. But this is not about me, it is about the costume. You can judge the costume, you can like it or dislike it. But the freedom behind it is so invulnerable and that's the beauty of it. And finding that there is nothing to be harmed, nothing really to be harmed or offended. Now how your relationships are gonna look if no one can control you by the nasty words or threats?
And you can't control no one because you understand there is nothing in there in your partner too. Like I was saying to Mia when she came first and she saw our beautiful wedding picture and and I can't praise enough the incredibly unspeakably beautiful, beautiful relationship which is not even a relationship, the reflection of oneness that I'm sharing with Bob. Can't, because there is nothing in between us. There is no concept that could stand in the way And say, you're wrong and I'm right. Or we have nothing in common because you're pro-vaxxer and you're anti-vaxxer, or you're this or you're that. This is just so unnecessary to engage with the content, with the dream and compromise on that beautiful flow of aliveness that is ever-present and it can be acknowledged and lived through and celebrated and appreciated.
And the time in the hospital, how as usually it happens, because I can stay there from morning till night, we just have so much less distractions. There is no cooking required, there is no need to address any correspondence, answer emails, do Skype calls, we have quality time all the way through. So that's, yeah, he's enjoying his being wherever it is. Discomfort is there, but there is no suffering. And that's the great demonstration. Thank you, Kat. Thank you, Kat. Thanks for keeping it all going, Kat. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. I think we have just one here from Shobhan. My first meeting of this kind. Really enjoy all of it and thanks so much.
Love to all. And that's it, I think. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Thank you everyone. Love to both of you.