Zoom group with Bob and Julia from 27 March 2023

All right. Okay, you can hear. I'm getting my ears. Getting your ears. Now, you'll hear all about them. Hey, Bob. Hey, Kate. That's Keith. Hey, Kate. How you doing? I'm good. How are you, man? Okay. Yeah. I'm driving, so I'm going to just mute myself until I get home here in a minute, but I thought I'd say hello. Okay. Hi, Keith. Hey, how's it going? Magnificent. Ask anyone. Yeah, good. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. I'm driving, so I'm just going to make myself invisible. Just look at the road and enjoy your driving. I'll be home. I'll be home. I'll be home. Okay. All right. Good to see y'all.

See you. Well, the floor is yours, Bob. Okay. Good morning, everyone. Good to see you. Hey. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, everyone. good to see you all guess what the subject is non-duality one without a second not two only that and it's about all about you but you is the I am I am that that's all there is only that and where do you begin in the beginning when does it begin no beginning no end time is just another concept past present and future the past is gone the future hasn't happened and the spontaneous presence is constantly transient is right here right now and where is here and where is now when you've got to go into so-called time to divide it it's always here always this ever fresh awareness of presence or presence of land and that's that is this immediacy we've been caught up in the belief we are we are we are individual we're persons we're separate entities and that's caused all sorts of problems and that if it's recognised as one cannot be separate it's all the one essence or intelligence entity or activity of knowing or whatever other labels you like to put on right here right now there is this presence of land and can't each and every one of you say the same thing and you're you're here and now there's not the now not the here and now but it is right here it's seemingly different different concepts but we can't separate it though it appears we separate a phenomenal manifestation the definition of phenomena is it which appears to be all seemingly but can I negate this presence awareness I can't I can't I can't negate the absolute knowing that I am I am is not what this body mind idea is I am is a sense of knowing and being right here right now have a fresh presence nothing else nothing else a bit of recognition and looking into it it becomes simple and easy all sorts of other concepts ideas and images and be going on in the background but way before they were believed in and brought into the presence and all sorts of reinforcements and numbers going on with it now that was what which was in the forefront goes to where the presence awareness was before for the awareness and the ultimate absolute awareness and much recognized or recognized much more easily and and recognition comes up if that awareness wasn't there what could be said about anything or knowing about anything awareness which is the life it's the presence it's the being it's the knowing what is knowing from knowing I am I I I I I I I I I I I Iivo Iivoivoivoivo and say I am not.

And I can't really say, put into words what I am is being it. Knowing that it is so, is spontaneously happening. And all the concepts, thoughts, beliefs and ideas and images that appear on that or in that presence awareness. I rely on that sense of presence. There can be nothing at all without that beingness, the knowingness, the life essence. The essence of that life. The subtle, silent, ever fresh being and knowing that I am. And the problems used to be there. Considerable goings on. The essence of that life. No longer. Renounce. Into the fall ground like they are. And I'm long. The recognition of all those concepts like fear, unhappiness, depression, guilt, shame, reward, jealousy, envy, anger.

And I'm not sure what those words come out here. They're not taken any further. Left as they are now. And they fall back into the silence again. Into the storm. Into the storm. And I just kind of just like a little here. And I like a lot of that. And I like a lot of that. And I like a lot of that. And I like a lot of that. And I like a lot of that. I like a lot of that. I like a lot of that. I like a lot of that. I like a lot of that. As you know it's nice to be in that quiet still space.

Stars going by, hear sounds, making noise, seemingly obscuring it. These thoughts and words coming up seemingly obscuring it. Pause. There's nothing to say. Nothing to do. But hearing is happening, seeing is happening, words are coming in, breathing. All sorts of functions going on here. And what we call there, outside, inside. They aren't separated. Like a years to divide and separate it. It's just all the one essence. That is how it is. That is why it is. That's how it always will be. But the saying comes up, know the truth. And the truth will set you free. All those beliefs that were going on before. All these are still happening.

They lose their sting. All those sting out. You won't get bitten from the light. Why is that? I don't know what I'm rambling on about here. The noise is coming out. The noise is coming out. I don't know what I'm rambling on. You don't have to either. You don't have to put up with it. But it's not new. It's there in all the ancient scriptures and ancient texts. Things have been added to it over the years. Other realizations. Other realizations. Of attitude. And quite it absolutely differently. It's still the same reality. The same truth. As it always was. And the amazing recognition of change that comes about.

To what it was. After years. Of them. Taking on the words and believing in the words. Without question. And all the problems. That caused. Now. In its emptiness. Of stillness. And silence. Entirely different. To what it was. A few years ago. And it's enjoyable. Happy to be. Loving to be. Loving to be. And they used to say. They hear these. What the hell are they talking about? It's obvious. Simple. But I. they have. of. of. of. is. of. of. h.. in.. h.. I. and that's the necessary part. The second part, what God passed on was the words, the schools and all the teachings about this, that and the other.

So many things which have been reinforced. And there are many things that point to it. You have had taste, but we wouldn't be sitting here, listening to this. Recognizing, realizing things weren't going. They were going as I were. And they didn't have to be, they could be better. Didn't have to be in all the fear, oppression and anger. Didn't have to be that. Life is unafraid and free. Unafraid and free. No fear in it. And it's ever fresh. Ever present. It's silence, stillness. It's natural, spontaneous. And you are that. You, me and everything else is only that. You are so grasping. You are so grasping.

Head around you. Be what you are. Not what you appear to be. Not what you appear to be. Not what you appear to be. And I tell you, I am that I am. That ordinary, ever present, I am this. I am that. Which is representing the sense. Believed in. Idea. That's all that I am is. And that's all that the I am is. Is that. Not some conceptual. Believed in. Idea. That which is. Is. That. Is. That. That. That. Is. That. Is. That. Again. What you are. Not what you believe in. Believed in. Idea. That which is. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It.

It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. Satyatananda, being, knowing and loving to be. Have a look, aren't you being right now? Of course you are. Aren't you knowing that I am? Of course you are. It doesn't have something to be happy about. There it is. It's already went to that. You didn't do it. Hello, Solomani. Folks, I am. I think. Bob can speak for himself, but I think he likes it a lot more when we're participating and contributing to the meeting. After he's done his spiel. I think what makes it really fun for him is when we demonstrate that we've been listening.

And we can, you know, maybe explain some of this from our own perspective so that maybe we could pass it on. And share it. I would like to contribute. Sorry. I would like to contribute to killing. Thank you. It's not the pressure, Julia, but thank you so much. I don't mean to pressure anyone, but just saying. I know. I know. I actually, you know, I noticed something took place a couple of days ago and I thought I was doing so well. And I noticed how fast the me latches on and how it starts blaming itself and regretting and thinking that it should have been another way.

And I just kind of had a question if anybody else feels the same and kind of ever has been thrown back and to like feeling like you're the me and just feeling sad about it. Because I kind of like was thrown off and now I feel a little bit upset and I'm not sure what I should do or there's nothing to do, right? I have a little story. I've been coming to Bob's these things for maybe about a year and a half. And one of the things that often comes up in every meeting is a saying that Bob has where he says, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?

And when I first heard that, I said, oh, yeah, sure. I understand that. It's all about the present moment, of course. And so where I live, it's not a rural area, but there is some woods nearby. And for the longest time, it's been very peaceful. But I guess because of development, the last five years, every so often, maybe we'll say once a month, you'll hear some screams coming from the woods. And as my neighbor puts it, who's killing who out there? And, you know, I don't totally understand that life lives off life. And but it always kind of pricks me in a way that because I always feel I know something out there is suffering and there's I'm helpless to do anything about it.

But that passes. But about a month ago, about three o'clock in the morning, I'm awakened by this horrendous screaming outside that seemed to last forever. But it finally subsided. And as I tossed and turned for the rest of my sleep, going in and out of sleep, I struggled with that feeling. So that by the time I woke up, my mind had decided to throw a party, invite all the ills and suffering to attend. So that so that the next couple of hours, I was kind of feeling kind of low. But luckily, a sailor named Bob showed up and saw that I was drowning in a sea of distress and threw me a life preserver.

And on that life preserver was written, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it. And once that happened, all the participants of the party disappeared and I was left in the present moment. And I remember last week, Julia talked about a painting that she had in her house, I think by Jim Carrey, has somebody behind. I don't know if it's him behind bars or just a person behind bars. And so now that I had this, I now have a deeper feeling for this saying that Bob has often spoken about. And I kind of feel like I carry with me this get out of jail free card out of my self-imposed prison.

Carl, I'm just wondering if you ever thought maybe all that screaming were the feral cats in your neighborhood fighting? It could be anything. I mean, there's could be cats, there's foxes out there, there's something going on. And that's the one. It's a snake in the rope. Yeah. But I got to thank Bob for that. I mean, it's something so simple and but so powerful. And I thank you very much for giving that to me. So thank you, girl. Thank you, Carl. It was that same life jacket was strong here too. I haven't worn it out yet. A lot of other people can read. But also, good on you.

Well, may I ask you, I'm just curious in relationship to what Julia said, is your happiness or enjoyment contingent upon how we show up at the meetings? Are you asking Bob? Yeah. Oh, I can't say it is, can't say everything. You know, I can latch on to anything at all now. Yeah. Where before it might have been. Yeah. It's as it is. Yeah. I don't think his happiness is contingent upon. I just think that it's like, well, what I think what makes these meetings quite unique and Bob quite unique is that he is encouraging us to, you know, discuss this and share this from our experiences.

Whereas you can go to like, I don't know, I've seen other people other than Bob. And I've never seen anybody else just say, well, you know, there's there's I'm that but you could become that. Yes. It's kind of the sense I get from them. Like, yeah, well, yeah, you don't talk. I'm talking here. You know what I mean? This is a unique. And if that we have here in that, he's encouraging us to get out and share it. And I just think that I could be wrong. It happens once a year, but he's fine no matter what. But it takes some of the the fun out of it for him.

If he's doing all the talking and then we like just kind of I don't know, you can tell me if I'm wrong about I could be wrong. It happens once a year. Today could be the day. It kills it kills some of the the fun of what he's doing if if if we we just sit back and and don't don't share and contribute as well. And and so we may have to end the meetings earlier because if we have nothing to say, then, okay, well, then we can just be in stillness on our own. No, no, no, no, no, no. There is great, great inspiration and great energy and silent satsang.

So there there's no need to fill this with this. Every great teacher teaches in silence. So enjoy. You know that I would say in relationship to would you say would you express your concern that you have one more time? Who me? Yelena. Yelena, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yeah. Well, you you mind expressing your concern one more time? Oh, yes, sure. It's just I thought I was doing so well with like I was in kind of like peace mode where nothing would phase me and then something happened and it just threw me back into as if I never even began the search.

Right, which I didn't understand. But in my whole issue is that it it latched on that event latched on to me so but so bad that it was a heart. It's like a horrible feeling and it's still going on. And what I, of course, try to do is habitually is to try to get rid of it because it feels awful. But I know that I can't. And the more that I try to get rid of it, the further it persists. But I was just hoping that maybe folks have gone through something like this and they have something to offer upwards and like, because I try to like, you know, all that comes up is that there's no you but it's not very helpful.

Yeah, I know. One thing that occurs when you're speaking right now is that I think one of the things that sometimes happens is some manifestation will occur like the appearance of the me and there will be an idea that that means something. That that means fucked up or that means you're a failure or that means something. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, and the tendency to imagine that the peaceful times you've gotten it right and you're squared away and you're on track. But the truth is that these energies, they come and they go and they come and they go. And that's just how it is.

They don't when they do arise, when something comes through, it doesn't mean anything. It's just what's happening. It's just the appearance of what's happening. You're you're completely innocent. Thank you so much. Can I offer something that has helped me? Oh, no, somebody else. Somebody else. Go ahead. Who is who? Somebody else was going to. Yeah, yeah. I'll I'll just add that whenever some strong feeling is coming up, whether it's positive or negative, the way out of it is through it. So you are greater than your feelings. You are greater than your fears. All these things, they come and they go. Just remain focused on the present moment awareness and all these things, whether enjoyable or unpleasant, will come and go.

That's all. Beautiful. Thank you so much. Coming through. The three magic words. This too shall pass. I have that tattoo on my on my wrist and I don't look at it hard enough. Yeah, that happens with everyone, right? That these are we this stuff comes up and we we chase start chasing it. And the more you think about it, the stronger it feels like it has you around the throat or the stronger hold it has on you, the more energy you give to it by focusing on it. But if you see it with this passion, if you're able to see it with this passion from whatever that is, if you're ever able to see that it's not you, it's just something that's happening, then it's just going to pass on its own.

Bob, why does the ego grasp? That's the function of it, isn't it? It can't survive in the present moment, can it? No, there's no such thing as a ego. Just a conceptual image here. Right. But the one before that, the more anything you think about it, the further away you wonder from the truth. Stop talking and thinking. And there's nothing you will not be able to know. Right. But here we start putting more concepts onto the non-conceptual. I was going to add that guilt and pride are two faces of the same coin. The fact that we think that we're the doers of what's happening. So, you know, we feel that it's okay to feel proud of what we've achieved.

At the same time, it's not okay to feel guilt for when things go wrong. So, in the same way that we have to somehow relax with the guilt, we have to find some relaxation with the pride as well. And realize we're not the doer of the good either. That's happening through us. This is beautiful. Because a lot of people have conflicted emotions about guilt, but not about pride. It's okay to feel proud. It's okay to feel guilty, right? Yeah. We're even encouraged to feel pride. That's right. Especially in America, huh? Right. You say it's strong for pride. Yay. Yeah. Proud to be American. These are just diversions.

Yes. Yeah. They're diversions. Yeah. Same concept of being the doer of what is happening. Yeah. I definitely thought I had that, like a good grasp on that, but I guess I do not. It's funny. Julia, you were going to offer something that works for you. Yeah. I love what everyone else added about really just seeing that there's, you know, the doer is, is just a thought. And on top of that, it may be helpful to, if that's what's showing up anyway, you know, like thoughts or feelings and you're trying to like, okay, well, I'm questioning it and I'm still feeling like crap. Yeah, whatever, then allow that to be and stay present with that with.

But in here, instead of maybe up here, if you can just stay here and just allow yourself to be lovingly compassionate with whatever is showing up. Whether it's the guilt or sadness or fear or anger or frustration or whatever. And if you just stay with that, without trying to change it. Correct it. Fix it. Have it be different. If it could have been different. It would have. If you could just stay here. And, and just allow this to just show up as it does. To the degree that it's, it's, it's fully. Allowed. And welcomed. It moves on. Yeah, I think that when we're resisting, when we're in resistance, we keep it.

I like the Carl Jung quote, what you resist persists. So if you've got a man, you know, doing it again, you know, and now I'm beating myself up and I'm resisting what I did. And now I did it and I'm resisting it more. And we're, we're keeping that. Does that make sense? At least it feels to me in my experience when I, I am. I don't know. I'm just thinking of something cat said that just was so helpful. It's coming up again. When my cat died and I was just feeling sad, she wasn't trying to change my sadness or anything, but she said to me, can you be grateful for your sadness?

Because without it, you wouldn't know joy. And I was like, wow. That was like, oh my God. And, and you know what happened? She just died. Like I loved her. She was 19 years old. I didn't, you know, you know, and I gotta tell you, this is, there's just, I was just left with gratitude. You know, there was the, this sadness was just, you know, in this gratitude for even the sadness. But was it you that was doing anything that was. No, no, no, there wasn't there. Nobody did shit. It was just, just, I think that pointer though, of, of being lovingly present with your current experience.

Um, maybe things are happening. Sorry. Something resonates maybe from a message, from a communication and then things are happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or not. Bob, you're not, Bob, when you, when you say those things about like how your life, you, you have a lot of wellbeing. It sounds like you have the things that might've riled you up before don't rile you up in the same way or, or whatever. Like, you're not saying that because you're telling people they should somehow grasp that conceptually and try to imitate that. I mean, you're not saying you did that. You're just saying that happened somehow. Right? Yeah. Because I think some idea like having a conceptual idea of what it looks like.

I think that's part of really what makes it more funky in a lot of ways is some idea that, oh, it looks like this. And if I'm not fitting into that, then I'm not doing it right. But, but really, as far as I can tell, I mean, this, you are, that is always, it shows up in every possible way in existence. Right. I mean. Just as it is. Yeah. Just as it is. Yeah. And the, the, I don't know the pointer where you say, leave it as it is. I mean, there's going to be times where life is just going to kick our ass, you know, across the stadium.

I mean, that's just how it is. No pointers going to work. No, no, no, nothing's going to work. And, and that pointer that comes where it's leave it as it is, is, is also, you know, is really powerful in a way, because there isn't anything to do really. I mean, all you can do is watch your mind. All you can do is watch it happen. Watch what's happening. Right. You can just watch what's happening. That's all you can really do. Well, who is the you that's watching Keith? Yeah, that that's good. That's the, that's the question I've been talking. I've been reading about, I have something I wanted to mention.

Actually, I've been thinking about this for the last couple of days. I read this in the saga data. He says, be conscious of yourself. Watch your mind. Give it your full attention. Don't look for quick results. There may be none within your noticing unknown to you. Your psyche will undergo a change. There will be more clarity in your thinking, charity in your feeling, purity in your behavior. You need not aim at these. You will witness the change all the same for what you are now is the result of your attention and what you become will be the fruit of attention. So he's talking about attention.

That's beautiful. Actually, I'd like to, yeah, I'd like to ask Bob, Bob, do you have anything to say about that or talk, say about that? What is that? Leave it as it is and it grows by itself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Once you get the taste of it. Yeah. Yeah. It keeps bringing the lamp, carbonizing, emptying it. I just would like to go back to what Julia said about experiencing your sadness. You don't expect us. I'm just thinking, do we have to experience the opposite in order to experience you in order to experience what the opposite is? I'm just thinking. I don't think I'm talking about experiencing the opposite.

I, when you're saying, being grateful for your sadness, you're experiencing it fully. You're saying, yeah, this is perfect. I'm fine with this. And let's just dive in and feel it as much as you do. You know, I don't, I'm not trying to experience an opposite, but the, but, but it was a pointing that, that everything does appear in opposites. It all shows up seemingly in opposites. It appears that way. And you wouldn't have the sadness if you didn't. I mean, you wouldn't have the joy if you didn't have the sadness. So if it's, if sadness is showing up, then let it show up. And then you just allow yourself to feel sad as much as you do.

In fact, bring it on. See if you can feel even more sad. Go for it. You know, and, and I think that if you're just, you're, it is what somebody else here was saying about just, you got to move through it. You have to allow it, just welcoming it, just going, you know, and, and that's what that's leaving it unaltered, unmodified and uncorrected to me. You know, there is no me, but you know what I mean? Right. Right. Right. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well, but it's, you know. No, sorry. I'm, I'm misunderstood. I was just thinking like, you know, I have to experience joy in order to experience joy.

Do I have to experience sadness? That's what I'm thinking. So I'm sorry. You wouldn't have known joy if you didn't have sadness. You wouldn't, you would never even know the difference because it's like, well, you wouldn't have, you, yeah. How can, how can you, you know what I mean? There would be no sense of love. Bob, wouldn't you, wouldn't it be fair to say that happiness has no opposite? Yeah. Yeah. That's the same applies with everything. Two is the one stick. Two sides of the one kind. We divided them. And divide them. It says in the East and Ming, do you pick one? If you pick one, if you pick one, if you pick either one, you pick, like you give your attention to either one, then you're gone.

You're immediately. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're moment presently aware and you're not being drawn in either direction there couldn't be one without the other we've got to recognize just need to recognize if one's showing more than the others part leave it as a do and it'll change just like day and night earth roll around the sun there's nothing about the sun neither does the sun know anything about the earth this end is facing towards the sun now so it's light it keeps rolling around and the other end will come up and this this end will be dark same with the thoughts we fixate on one trying to get rid of the other just not recognize and leave it as it is Bob would you say that's like when you went through I mean I know this is going back into the past but also I mean when you went through periods where you were affected by externals where you had strong feelings or anger or reactions but you were still this teaching was still a part of your life like do you remember what that was like and and and and how that unfolded like it wasn't too good did you say it wasn't too good did you say it wasn't too good yeah but as it as it went as it went on it got less and less concern because you know it's all you know something you can be aware of hold on is objective and when I did subject I become the story to take all the objects out of the story where does that leave it present and aware we light on as we light up the objects onto the story when we got this conceptual image and very painful but and you did I mean once you were exposed to like connected with Nisargardatta and became involved in whatever this is you had rocky periods though right you had periods where you know strong feelings would come and and so forth I mean I'm I'm assuming right you did yeah yeah it goes on the same way the pairs of opposites would come up yeah it's an energy and belief couldn't go into them to the standards edge after a while yeah yeah seeing through it in the first place for the meeting that I wasn't the body I wasn't the mind wasn't this person and I said there and there I'll never be caught in the mind again but I'd walk out the door and I was yeah yeah the more I you know after a while you know but hang on a minute you've seen through this have another look go back and look again and see that it wasn't true and the more you're going to go to it and it was you I'll go to the back and and I then I'm like I'm like to go to the back and I know I just an important thing I can do I have to go to the back and to the way I was I was and to the more I was and the more you kind of brought it look i went back and into it and saw that one true the lesson that's called that has on you yeah so it's kind of like so it's not that you're trying to i'm sorry yeah i'm not it's not that you're trying like you've had this experience where you've you've had this um i think we've all had this experience where you you resonate with this you feel your you you feel that you know you understand you know you have undoubtedly you know here i am in this present moment you have that realization you don't say that necessarily those words but you have that sense where everything sort of stops you know right and then you get you you see what that is you know it's not that you're trying to repeat that experience but you become aware of what what that is that awareness begins begins to take a hold of you and it sort of operates in the background and you see it when you see these things happen you begin to have you know this is something else i've read in the sarga data he talks about viveka which is the word discrimination so you i think that means you begin to discriminate between the what's true and what's false and you begin to see those things as false and when you see those you begin to recognize those those falsehoods when they come up you begin to recognize them faster does that make sense and once you say something is false you never truly believe right so it comes up again but you don't get stuck in it so much because you see it more more quickly for what it is but bob you're talking about also the not the you sailor bob doing that you're talking you're talking you're speaking about the life energy itself right life intelligence itself starts to take over in a certain way isn't it you getting it right because that's of course yeah yeah yeah yeah of course it's just that you're that but that awareness is there all the time right it's just that we like bob says the sun blocks the you know the clouds block the sun but the the sun is still there but yeah but those something happened you know something happens but but nothing happens i guess it's just you can't make it happen in other words it's just it's there it's just whether you're whether whether that i don't even know how to say it whether that awareness takes hold of you or not how can you say you can't there's nothing you can say i can't say i put my attention on it i can't say i did this or i did that i can't say i you know that i chose to wipe those clouds away but that's you know we but what can you say about it you know it's just there all the time that's the perfect spot keith when you stump the panel where the words right yeah what more can you say about it i mean you can't say i did anything about it that was my question about the attention you know what is it is it as attention do i do i pull something up out of myself and go hey i'm going to remember to do this every time every time this happens i'm going to remember to go back to being aware i mean that's kind of funny right you can't do that right bob would it be safe to say that attention is also like devotion yeah attention is like the reality again you can't be attentive right you can only recognize your inner attention there you go and that that would be from the point of attention there you go right on that's good so that bob this uh presence awareness this presence of awareness and awareness of presence yeah yeah so that's i think uh that's really important uh at least i've found that to be very important the presence of awareness and awareness of presence and the other thing that i think elena had asked in the beginning i was in the at these moments as well and a couple years ago i called bob about it and he said these are just thoughts and i was clinging on to a thought that it used to be a certain way and that was a thought and then there were thoughts of i want to go back there and that was a thought and and then there was this energy of belief given to all of that and it just became this huge thing and then when i spoke with bob it just like fell away and it seems kind of silly that uh the all these thoughts kind of built up on each other and they were just thoughts nothing was actually happening it was all just um i don't know speaking to you help bob yeah nothing either good or bad but thinking yeah yeah the idea that i had gotten it was a thought the idea i don't have it is a thought yeah yeah that uh oh no it's gone is a thought it's these are just thoughts that are happening right now and as soon as we give them energy of belief then this whole conceptual world spins up right that's it the energy of belief yeah yeah but but not before morning coffee even before morning coffee it it can start you roll out it'd be open your eyes and there it is you know i'm crashing down your eyes actually you could you could just wake up and be like oh yeah now i got up and then the whole thing starts again um i was thinking about something you were commenting on um earlier morning and yeah this is sorry did you want somebody else want to talk yeah so yeah quick what maureen said he was asking a question that's about the past i'm wondering if it's a if it's a wrong question or a right question something like that because when bob answered it it recollects and who answered that what would you say that when you answer that is it from the ego because it recollects because you know maureen was asking a question that's from the past how would you do but back then how do you feel that now when you answer that you recollect is that recollection part of the ego is that an ego that's just my question he said earlier there is no ego it's a it's an idea it's a thought yeah so it's more of a processing there's a believing in a me a doership if you want to say that's if you want to use that word ego and say it's more of a processing a believing in a me isn't it bob i mean you could call it there's a processing of ego but there is no ego but the memory he's asking about the memory though i think just the memory itself that's just a function of the mind that's what it does like it's like a filing cabinet it goes yes no this one goes there this one goes there you know that memory itself is just a function of the mind yeah that was just wondering and ernie i mean one of the things that i would say in relationship to that is if you take time out of the equation and say everything that ever was or ever will be is here right now i mean the thing that was being asked about or spoken to is that right now when bob talks about his state of well-being or equanimity the me hears that and it uh has a conceptual idea of what it looks like it looks like this bob says he has a lot of happiness in his life he has a lot of well-being it's not the burning hell that it once was and and what what really what the question was attempting was to say that actually um making that a goal is again just an another form of suffering that it can look all different ways that it's life itself can show up in all different ways and that it doesn't mean anything it it isn't that you did it right or wrong i mean so so really whether it happened to him you know 20 years ago or or happened to him right now it wasn't really about time or going back to the past it was really about our pictures i mean i've i've read stories of people whose maze have dissolved or who have recognized i am that that never had any teachings they never had any ideas about what it looked like and in some ways that that might be kind of a cool thing because you don't have some conceptual image of what you imagine you're supposed to be getting which the me that's like heroin to the me arne this is just what's happening now it's a conversation with questions and answers whether that's a recollection of a true past or not it doesn't matter okay um keith reminded me of that sort of analogy with the sun and the clouds and um i i think it's a fantastic analogy in is in that um i think when we go to uh bob's meetings um bob keeps pointing if i can use that analogy to the sun um and when we go in there we're just full of clouds i mean that it completely obscures the sun and um all that spiel is about the clouds that obscures the sun and when those clouds i.e the words what we think we are um uh you know all these sort of illusions and stuff like that um once we see um the uh if i can still use that analogy the sun within us that is constantly shining never stops you've seen it you go oh right okay bang and um um everything else um is clouds uh so that doesn't mean to say that the clouds don't turn up um but uh because you've seen the sun and uh you're looking from the sun uh what you can do um uh the clouds dissipate and um um once you've seen that you are that um um presence awareness um you can't forget it um um what you choose to do about it um what you choose to do about it i mean it's up to yourself whether you want to hang on to it um or completely forget it um you know it's up to the individual um i've seen the benefits of of uh constantly uh referring to that um presence awareness uh um i i feel uh things that um um happen in my life um uh is a lot less i'm a lot less affected by it uh whereas uh in the past i i i buy into things um and i'm talking about uh both joy and um and sadness um so um i think that's the whole point is that once you've seen that you are the presence awareness um then um uh that's it that's it you recognize it that's it done you recognize it but you can't describe it in any way you can't say anything about it except that that's it that i am that you can say that but there's no there aren't any words you can say to say what that is you can say what it isn't and that's what we do right we're talking about all these things that it isn't but we can't really say what it is except it's i am that it's like you know there's elders there's a recognition yeah i think there's only yeah yeah sorry about to move back into that recognition more and recognize recognize that's it it's a carbonizing emptiness an emptiness is formed and the forms could be nothing other than me if i can use another analogy sorry about those it's like a treadmill you know probably most of the people they have used the treadmill and um you can walk and you can run and all that sort of stuff and on the side of the treadmill they're these runners and then um once you've had enough you just step onto the runners you just step onto the rails or um just become aware of your own presence and um but the treadmill is still going but um but the treadmill is still going but you have a sort of relief and i i think that's the same with this presence awareness life is going on in front of you all the time and when it gets too much you just step onto the rails and you know um you're either walking or you're running um you know uh if you've been on the treadmill and um uh you know you're either walking or you're running um once you step onto the rails you get this sense of relief and i think it's the same when life's throwing stuff at you good or bad um um you fall back into this uh presence awareness and everything subsides sense of relief good yeah just see the you see the treadmill is false you see the falseness of it you see you've seen the falseness of of uh taking part in treadmilling well you have to do that treadmilling is life right but life is constantly flowing yeah everything all these things are arising yes you're everything all this stuff is arising it's happening in your life it's arising in in the it's arising in front of you yes and you you can see it for what it is or not but who's going to again we're back to that who's who's seeing it we're back to that question of who is seeing it and are they choosing are you choosing to see it or you just recognize you have a moment of recognition when you see oh wait a minute um you know well the thing is um um we're all fortunate in as much that we've seen the sun or the the presence awareness thanks to bob who constantly points to it um we've seen it and we've got um um access to it whereas um some people just see clouds and they see happy clouds and they see sad clouds but no sun um um um i guess it goes back to what keith said again because uh we we are we we we live in a very conceptual world like now we introduce yeah i mean as uh we we we are in this uh the religion uh religious kind of a path like we introduce awareness attention how is this uh like of course there's so much concept like is it is this a concept to me or is this really an actuality to me but now when i'm asking how do i get this then the mind plays the trick again because i go back to that and then kids and there's only happening like because you know it's just a concept and then then bob said yeah you recognize there's some i don't know there's some when uh when carl hoffman said these two just passed my brain the brain stopped to me i was listening to him when he said that but there was no eye in it that uh says oh i stopped the action comes first i i don't know recollecting it like there was an action and then there was a thinking after so i don't know if that makes sense like there's the money that's the money that's the money that's the social pass for you you know yeah you see the thing is what's wrong with right now is the concept no no no no no you're right yeah no it's great what's wrong with right now is uh if you don't think about it is a conceptual antidote right but when you rest in um presence awareness and that can be done in a few ways um pausing is uh one one sense um um resting in the listening um resting in the scene um just watching yourself see like um presently now uh i'm i'm aware that i'm wearing glasses because i can see them by resting in the scene when you rest in those what you're not doing is entertaining thoughts and when you're not entertaining forwards then all there is is presence awareness because the thought takes away a lot of your attention because you focused on that those thoughts and as bob used to say lovely expression let it go to the keeper um that's a that for those i don't know that's a that's a cricketing term it could be a baseball term as well where um the pitcher throws the ball and the batter can see that that ball is worthless um he's not going to be able to hit it and the um uh the keeper is the the fellow at the back who catches the ball so he said when you see these thoughts come through you just and it's not applicable to the present moment like it's you know it's not telling you how to make a cup of tea or or drive the car then you let it go to the keeper another expression these thoughts come in but don't serve them a cup of tea but the thing the thing how you observe it are you observing it from the outside or from the inside you can't because if you're you know how do you how do you look at yourself do you look at yourself from the outside or are you are you that are you that itself well the thing because if you yeah if you separate when you say about like there's only recognition i like recognize this is not there's no one like i recognize oh that's it there's only recognition so this i don't know you can't really i don't know i feel like you can't separate from the yourself from like if you experience like that like fear i can't step i can't see it from the vantage point of outside i am fear kind of yeah you feel like you become it right i i don't know yeah yeah look look look look you know fearful things happen you know like they just happen and they come and go and um sometimes it's quite a ride particularly when you're watching it you know but you know this inside and outside thing um i'm on my you know like you know thoughts thoughts because thoughts are sound waves right and these are these are what uh perceived sound waves we think the thoughts are happening in here you know between the ears that's where we think they are but um i'm not so sure you know what's going on i don't know i can't like i when i'm i'm when i'm uh when i am like i can't i um when there's happening this happening and something like yeah you can say there's no duality you can't really separate and watch it from the outside because if you see you see that there's duality the um because outside is duality right outside inside is duality right there yeah right absolutely because the one that's seeing it is actually made by the mind you know what i mean no no it's not it's not the thing that's seeing is independent of the mind yeah but it it assess you know what i mean it assess the mind judges what you see is that what you're saying yeah because when one sees i don't know you see when you when you see it outside the the entity that's watching outside it assesses the whole situation there's nothing wrong it's okay but when you are one with it it's different i can't yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we've experienced it yeah that's right have you seen your your presence awareness like when you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world you're in the world sorry I didn't hear sorry what did you say I'm sorry I said have you in in my analogy have you seen the sun have you seen your your presence awareness like when you pause you say that's the thing because I can't it would be false if I say I've seen it you know what I mean because I can't really say it you don't know whether you have or you haven't no because uh it's either you would be in it um um I don't know you know here's the thing have you experienced no thought you know where there's no thoughts in the mind have you have you experienced that you see when I answer that question uh yeah I've seen yeah I've no experience but thought it's not really it was not really done that thing it's uh it's yeah it's it's the mind that's saying that I've experienced it it's the brain um but again there's this happening is what Keith said again well when I say like I would say yeah anyway I think it's just a word it's just a communication sometimes we we're conditioned by linguistically like the the brain is so conditioned to this group in the like yeah but yeah there is what's happening I think what he said oh what there is it's just right now what Bob said so so what's happening right now um seeing is happening see we overlook that we have a look you know seeing is happening hearing is happening smelling those five senses are happening whether you think or not whether you're thinking or not when you go to sleep you're not thinking but you see look it'll come mate it'll come it'll come to say that it will come is uh hope and hope is false and hope is about becoming is not being oh sorry Ernie so can you let it not come you don't let it or you don't let or don't not let it I don't know if they're using words what can I do yeah who would do that oh it's a nasty it's a teaching like that kind of language is a teaching yeah but it's all point what kind of language and this isn't a teaching yeah it will come anything about strategies like that kind of right right yeah and I have it and I'm going to impart it to you I mean it's all it's all just what's going on but yeah right why why aren't we learning anything why is that who cares that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that about a resonance recognition it's all energy yeah what's been what came to my mind earlier is something that uh maureen was talking about a little bit or if somebody did i'm just kind of coming up with it when we have ernie these these these feelings and thoughts of resistance just whatever all that stuff i don't know i don't know it's hard to talk this that i don't want to teach okay i'm i don't want to teach but i just want to say that it's been helpful to see it all as an opportunity and to see that that if if that's what's showing up in this moment every time it's seen through it doesn't it doesn't it's not seen as much you know what i mean it's it's it's not bought into as much but everything we say positive it's a hope for something better something we want to become say that again everything we say every positive uh state we wish for it's a rejection of what is right now it's it's a trap yeah it's a trap you can fall into yeah yeah but i can remember you know when i was at bob's meeting um i wanted to understand like you know i desperately wanted to understand what bob was talking about what he's talking about so i mean and the mind can't understand because we live in in what we perceive as a dual world well okay okay so once you've seen um that um you know you are the presence awareness i mean there's a rest and the knowing that the sun is always there but clouds come and go and you're not but who what registers that does the mind register that now it's the awareness that is ever present all right okay well well the thing is this then the mind is just an explanation of how we remember but you're talking about the small end mind your mind something that you possess well well you can't remember the stuff i remember can you like they talk about the one mind but unfortunately there are people that can actually say so again there are people that can actually it's about the capacity of the individual mind of not being able to but that doesn't mean that our minds are not connected and it depends whether between our minds well well and it depends on whether you're talking about memories like memories or whether you're talking about recognition that's that i think those are that's different the recognition if you know who can who can say anything again i said it already who who can say anything about that that recognition when you have a recognition you can't say anything about it and you can't remember it because it's always right now in this moment it's always hap it's always in this moment and how can you remember it when it's always is well i'm looking at you keith and i'm distinguishing you from the building behind you all right see so i'm going well keith is that thing with the um with black shirt and the headphones and the building is the building behind you right and there's two different things yeah so um i've created a division of the body yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm trying to get to a point um so um i've i've created a division i've said well keith is what i've just described and the building is what's behind you yeah so in reference to the mind right we call this thing the ability to um to remember yeah and uh we we attribute that to the mind we say well the mind has the ability to remember and recognition you know we can put it in the same package the mind has the truth some mind mind remember is it is it true is it true that the building is changing then it's not true true has to be absolute right to be true true truth is that which never changes yes end of story but keith if he moved away from the building your whole uh assumption that he's that distinct thing from the building no no no because something else other than the building right would hold his silhouette see so anyway point up the point of maybe gaining weight losing weight you know looking younger you know he decides to shave his beard and so it's not it's not true if he shaved his beard he'd look younger let's i could go shave we can see i could go shave my face and we could try it out have we got time for that play with keith and see what happens now we don't have two minutes left folks but it's been fun it's been a lot of discussion ernie just remember you are the sun yeah um i think yeah thanks although it's not trying to say like bobby yes trying to separate you can like he remembers can you remember my remember then angie said can you remember he's trying to say like i like you know seeing keith in the back of the building there is an eye to it but what i'm just saying is there was just happening like it's the same thing as what guy i think from the book uh from the story of ramana maharshi one guy coming from europe he wants to see ramana maharshi in truth when he said this i come here to see you in truth he's not really saying i come here the body at the train station brings in there or something like that no in there so what you're trying to say out there like i as opposed to angie's brain but it's not i it's there's a there's a seeing the eye sees the hearing hears you know what i mean but you are we always attribute it to the eye and that's i think we we become victim of the language itself language uses us not us using the language so to speak you see in the beginning language is really important because we're using the language in order to point to the sun see so we're really careful your finger we're really careful about how we use the language um because we're using the language to point to this presence awareness but once once you've seen the presence awareness it doesn't matter anymore whether you say i me him you know it doesn't matter because um we're no longer using the language as a tool the language is always of the tongue sorry language is always of the two there's no way around it non-geality is a concept no no exactly no true that's right true but i mean um if i say i'm going to make a cup of tea who's going to jump up and say the laughter right you know like you just can't attack somebody because they're saying hi no no maybe in the sun well in the hebraic tradition there is only i am or in the judaic or or in the muslim islam there is only i so you you can't say making coffee or i am this yes i am i am no no well you know you're still gonna live right you still walk through life with an identity but you know that you're the presence awareness like you're not if once you've seen the sun or president of vanis what does that mean anyway you're not gonna you're you're not gonna lose your name people are still gonna call you ernie i don't know i changed my name i used to be julia pegler that said i'm are we we're gonna have to wrap things up i'm sorry to interrupt but we're going over time and i have to thanks bob thanks julia thank you julia carl thank you everyone thanks god next week next week we change our clocks i think in um australia folks yeah yes uh yeah next week yeah i think that's this coming week next week so it may be a different time keep an eye on the website okay great all right great thanks thanks julia thanks bob thanks everyone love you love love love