This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
I am Ben, Julia, Zuma, Polo, Lockie, Ross, Gilbert, Navi, Cliff, Tristan, Josh, Pia, Jane, Dean, and you gotta have a look at that Dean. Thank you. www.nisargad.com.pl Just what is, just life unfolding, which looks like ten thousand things, like energy moving, patterns, shapes, forms, but it is really just the appearance, because it is temporary and transient, it's a dance. So we can all happily marvel at the dance of changing forms, but they just appear and disappear in the conscious awareness, in that being. So it really is about coming back to that being and putting that in the front ground rather than in the background. Just having the affectionate awareness of being.
So being warm towards that being. Finding the warmth is not about becoming in love with being, it's finding where it is already present. Finding that space in our heart when there is that subtle joy of aliveness. And just giving it due attention. I think someone's... Thank you, Dean. Give them a space there. There are a couple of chairs there behind Dean. Just go in here. Hey, thank you for coming. You're welcome. Yes, so back to the no-think, relaxing into the no-think without giving the attention Letting the whole of the attention be distracted and taken away by the storyteller without falling for the daydream. It doesn't mean that the daydream cannot entertain.
It can totally, totally entertain. It is really a wonderful opportunity for the love to express itself and life to love itself. The only way it can know itself is through the reflections, through the shadowy pictures on the screen that are coming and going. So it's not a problem with thinking, with dreaming. It's just that when the whole attention is taken by it, And when the foreground of that joy, that affectionate awareness of being is forgotten, the suffering seeps in. And that suffering is unnecessary. The whole questioning and coming back to the recognition of what is already present, that aliveness, that subtle joy of being. And putting the dream, the thoughts, the daydreams in the rightful place, seeing them for what they are and enjoying them by all means is the way out of suffering.
There is no promise of never having a thought. There is no promise of never having an emergency surgery or pain. But if you see it in the right perspective, that this is something that appears and disappears in the consciousness, and you are the consciousness for all that to appear and disappear. When there is a consciousness and there is no appearance, we call it coma. There is no consciousness. So they're interrelated, they're interdependent. If there is a stuff appearing, there is an awareness of presence. If there is deep sleep at night there is no awareness of presence and there is no possibility for joy and appreciation for that awareness of presence So it is to be celebrated by all means but in the rightful perspective as something that comes and goes as something that is not the ultimate truth.
It's only a relative sort of an appearance coming and going. So it is that simple. And the other part of the simplicity is there is no pathway, there is no way to achieve it, to become it, because it is already here. If you look into a direct experience, you already are present and aware of your presence. There is nothing that has to happen in future. It is already here. It's just that it is ignored, it is a little bit neglected, it is not given its due importance, it's a bad word, but recognition, not given its due recognition. So it really is about relaxing out of the distractions and obstructions and daydreams into that natural recognition, experiential recognition of being present and aware and subtly joyous and delighted in being.
So can't become it, It is present, it is equally present in every creature, every form. There may be different degrees of awareness of that presence, but the presence is 100% fully there, even in so-called inanimated objects, because when you look close enough, nothing is inanimated. Everything has this spinning microscopic particles vibrating in it, so there is animation there. So life is alive, it is a movement, it isn't static. And when we talk about movement, we assume that movement is something that relies on time. But that's only in perception. And it is only in labeling because in direct experience you don't need those concepts to experience, to see, to feel that phenomenal world around, which is only there because of that existence, that presence.
So it is coming back from the stories that we have of how important it is what I'm doing, where I am, contextualizing all the beautiful stories, beautiful daydreams about the progress, about learning, gaining new skills, changing houses, having your gut removed, all of those incredible stories. And coming back into the recognition that those are passing phenomena and they only here because I am, because of the existence. And then life is just much more serene and much more flowy. Even things that are unpleasant, uncomfortable, painful or disturbing are just the way it shows up. It temporarily patterns dualistically because without the duality there is no experiencing, there is no thing.
So of course there is day and night and pain and pleasure and that's fine. And even if you see the body screaming and you understand that the body is your binoculars, the body is the vehicle through which the experiencing happens, but you're not your binoculars, you're not your glasses. So, let the body scream and marvel at its capacity to scream, at its incredible capacity to respond in every situation. Jane was mercifully feeding me yesterday after the, in the situation and we were just having a little chat about someone we know and love, who seem to have good clarity and yet doesn't fully understand how incredibly complex and beautiful that machinery is.
And there is nothing to dislike or nothing to not love and admire. Even if you think you have crooked teeth or crooked eyes or something is wrong here or there about the body, the body is absolute marvel. It is a masterpiece. And this is where you can't fake self-love, but through the recognition of not being the body and seeing it for what it is, seeing that super sensitive machinery interconnected with the whole environment and responding moment to moment in the best possible way, even if that best possible way The following is a summary of the results of the meeting The The Even if society calls it bad, you see it as a miracle and you love it for what it is.
Including the judgment. There's nothing wrong with having a judgment and loving the judgment. Because that is also a response. Just like the body responds with nervous tics, the same way it responds like, ah, you ugly, you fat, whatever. That's also just a conditioned response. But stepping back from every response of the body to the consciousness that you are, and seeing that the body does its thing, 100% of the time, it does its thing, the mind does its thing. They all do, they all unfold as they have to. It's like you don't blame the bee or the wasp for picking the pollen or stinging you, You don't blame your body for stinging someone else if it does what it does.
But with that stepping back and relaxing and seeing and learning about those patterns, majority of the involvement and self-importance and self-obsession goes down. And now if the body responds at barking at someone, whether it is a body of the dog or it is this body, It responds in this way. There is no justification. Oh, he is wrong. I had to do that. With absence of that sort of justification, the pattern of barking eases off. There is no story. There is no need to justify anything anymore. So the natural kindness and compassion takes its place because there is no need to be right anymore. Who is there to be right?
So without even any need to address any issues like developing compassion or becoming better or learning how to be more ethical or moral, the way religions rightfully so, that again life expressing through them brings it into the picture and it is necessary, that's the role they're playing. But in nonduality, often a criticism is raised and they call it neo-advaita or something like this and they say this is wrong because they don't tell people how to live their lives and what to feel and what to think and how to behave to others that they need to love. Well, we start from the fact that there is no one there who could possibly do anything at all.
There is no doer. Body is acting the best it can in the complete connection, inseparable from the factors around of the environment. So it always does its best. When the self-obsession is withdrawn through investigation and realization that there is no self, It naturally stops hurting. When the joy comes up, when it springs out from the heart, everyone, even in the deepest darkness of suffering, when they had a moment of joy, there is no desire to hurt others. There isn't one. Only hurt people hurt people. So when the suffering goes down, the natural benevolence comes into the surface. It may not happen overnight. The way the patterns, the behaviors, the brain rewire itself may take some time.
The ideas may, some of them may drop immediately, some of them may never drop away. But it is naturally without brainwashing and learning compassion, forcing people to work on themselves, it happens organically. And I have to tell you, and Bob has noticed it too, how you guys in this beautiful little group, how the energy of assisting, love and assistance towards each other grew over time. The more of the clarity and understanding and relaxation into that wonderful news that there is nothing you need to do It's just trust life, just trust it has you, it beats your heart. The more of that, the more of the natural, oh this helps me, oh this may actually work for you.
Love and benevolence. This is what is so beautiful about those meetings. And on that note, I would like to invite you to share some of those pointers, that benevolence that comes through, if there is anything that you find as a great reminder that really works, that really helps when the measures call for it. Or if there is anything that maybe even, you know, comes back as a pointer on the back of the head. Or if there is anything that you would like us to go to, something that maybe hasn't been highlighted strongly enough. Or even the expression of joy or gratitude or suffering, anything, anything.
And we will take it from there. I guess I didn't do as Bob does usually half an hour of a full speed, I think we can all contribute. I mean there are people here with longer quality and clarity than I do. So I invite everyone to just please share and let us know how you're going. Thank you. Thank you, Kat. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, you know, most of the, yeah, there was some people, of course, most people just wishing Bob a speedy recovery and sending love to you and everybody else here, and there's no questions, so really, just, Ben. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I want to say that was really beautiful, first of all.
Aw, thank you. I'm gonna, I have a tendency to lose all points what you said, but, yeah, I've noticed a couple of things, like, I hold a lot of tension, And a lot of my awareness is kind of like grabbed by that. You know, it really takes a lot of focus, a lot of my focus. And you like kind of in effect takes a large part of your identity as well. And then it's mental in that. Yeah, I think just being with it it's hard to sometimes remind yourself that I'm more than this or whatever, but I've noticed that just being with it, there'll be sudden moments of just being with that, I am a person who is not aware of the world.
I am not aware of the world. I'm a Like a system. So like you were talking about trauma and that and just kind of realizing you know that has a cause and it's held in the body and it relates to the mind and it gets triggered by external events and those external events are like the cause of someone else's whatever and you know it's just like where does This idea that these concepts, myself, what is it in a totality that I consider myself to be that isn't the awareness or whatever. So you could literally, like I could probably, if I had a computer or something, just have a list of all my concepts, everything that I imagine myself to be.
Male, Australian, blah blah blah, and it goes on. These are my experiences and this is kind of how I respond to stuff. You know, and then so you get this kind of list and you know, but you're kind of looking at the list. You know what I mean? You're seeing it as a whole kind of collection and then you realize, okay, well, whatever, that is what it is and that has its causes. But I'm also kind of more than that or seeing that and everyone else has their list and yeah. I love it. Oh my goodness, this is brilliant. This is a beautiful way of putting it down.
Just see the whole thing and also the way how you are aware of the attention flowing wherever it is needed. I am a person who is in need of attention, pain, whatever it is, it calls for attention. That's what Bob is always saying. Any physical symptom is a call for healing, for attention. Yes, that's right. And then you have shifts when you see that attention flowing there. Sometimes it might be so intense and it's kind of shaking you and that's kind of what is needed for you personally to step back. If everything's fine and you're just in the daydream, then you're stuck in the daydream.
Yes. You're not seeing, like you said, the beauty of the totality. I think one point that I was thinking about is just like relating it back to that kind of affection or joy in the experience. I don't think I've quite settled into the experience enough to quite be there or understand that yet. It is only about this present moment now. Because if you start looking for a state in which you are there 24-7, it's never going to happen. Because no thing that is constant can ever be experienced. So there is moment of joy and there is moment of deeper joy and there is moment of no joy and then joy again.
It's only one moment at the time. So I guess the affection comes through seeing the beauty of how everything kind of relates or something like that. And just all the experience of how everything relates. And it shows itself to itself in many different ways. You can see, you can have a certain like an insight and wow! Or you can have a moment of just a feeling. Or you can have a moment of just pause and just complete silence and like nothing. Not everything can be translated by the mind into something tangible that you could share later on. Some of those moments may be completely beyond language.
And they are all fresh and new and they are all different and they are all to be let go of because they are all experiences. And they are kind of like little kisses of the eternity. It's just look and then look again. But this is not it, because all those little moments of loving, affection, or clarity are coming on the consciousness, on the basic screen that you are. You're always and ever that. Pleasant moments, unpleasant moments, moments of insights, moments of clarity, moments of being taken by that daydream. They are all of the same nature. I think, maybe I'm just trying to get my head around the affection.
The affection really is inbuilt into the experience. I have affection for the experience. That's right, absolutely. The affection is the experience and the experience just giving of everything and of itself. Yes. Yes, if you look at the level of, like a cellular level of the body, or even if you look at the thought or idea, they all want to be. They all have preference for existence, almost like a survival instinct, even a thought. You know, I'm a believer of this, I want to force it on everyone because I want to be. I, a thought, want to be. Everything has the preference for being on the level of the form, but in that level of open field of consciousness, that creative force, that loving to be is what kind of makes it vibrate.
Love is what makes it appear It like being and the love is given is in the giving of the experience to be as well Yes. It's like intertwined as a being but there's also that love in the possibility that you are given that experience. So the core of violent hatred is love, is the movement of energy. Violent hatred is, oh, I want these people to die, to perish, because I love this. So it is really, it's not, of course, like you say, it's not that I love the being, because love is the quality of existence. I love the way Nisargadatta put it and it's so poetic and it can never be emphasized enough.
When I'm nothing, this is wisdom. When I'm everything, this is love. Or nothing tells me I'm wisdom and everything tells me I am love. And between the two, life constantly moves, it flows, because the clarity is, oh my God, everything's made of nothing. But then, but it is still everything. So this, the movement, and I am that nothing and I am that everything. That movement is love and emptiness love, that like a polarity, duality within that field of potentiality because there is still only one. It's like the matrix in which there is either zero or one, either something or nothing, but they all of the same matter, you know, You know, like the field of potentiality and actuality of the potentiality.
So it's still one appearing as that inseparable dance. Yeah, I like that actuality and potentiality. Yeah, that kind of brings another paradox which I absolutely love because part of my sort of left brain The second part of the question, which is having a little bit of a soft spot for the science, brings it down to the realization that that one is not even one as potentiality. You can't even say, is it there or is it not? You can't. You're just completely beyond the language. Is it or it isn't? And even as it appears, does it really exist? If its nature is so temporary and dependent on the...
So it doesn't even have independent nature, neither as potentiality or actuality. So it is really intangible and yet it stands right in front of you, the whole dream. Yeah, that's like what I was trying to get my head around, the affection, awareness. Yes. You know, like where does the affection come from if there's no, well, it's in the potentiality or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Oh, yes, Niamh. Thank you. I'll just share an experience that I had a couple days ago. My mind was in a lot of turbulence and deep suffering. I was like, no, I was already there, how can I do this?
And you know, the internal struggle of having to be this spiritual whatever. And then at some point I had the thought of my mind is torturing me. Then I was like, wait, my mind? Then who is? Wait, that's separate. And then it's just like poof, it all went away. And this, the existence in a way, the awareness, it kind of sunk in deeper. It's that, I watched a video that day, a little bit later that day, that talked about that our experience is just the awareness or whatever name we give it. It's just that thing that sees it. When you were nine, it was the same thing.
When you're drunk, it's the thing that sees that you're drunk. Wait, then how is it? Who knows it? Who is it? And I kept asking myself, like, who is it? Who is it? And then it just, it's just that. It's just that thing that, it just experiences everything. And then, from that place, all of a sudden I just looked, and I was like, wait, I'm experiencing this now. I'm just seeing these hands, this rug, the cat walking around, the... Everything that ever was was just the experience of everything that ever was. And one of the things that were said in that video was nothing can take away from it, yes, but also nothing ever added anything to it.
I am a woman Never changed throughout all of it Even when I was nine I felt the same as when I 32 And so there nothing to protect there because nothing can take away from it and there nothing to achieve because nothing ever added anything to it. It always remained just experiencing. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. It's just another experience that I'm experiencing and in, I don't know, 15 years if time exists, I'll be like, oh, that one experience, I remember it. That's all the memory, it's just the experience. There's nothing tangible beyond that. Yeah, that's it.
That is beautiful. That is a profound insight. Literally two days ago this happened. Wonderful. Thank you for sharing it, because if anyone really heard, is your experience any different? The content is ever changing, but the being in which that content changes is always still in the same. Yeah, good point with the experience. Since about beginning of this year, I noticed that I don't want to experience certain experiences. Yeah. But I got more conscious of it, which I realized I did actually all my life. And then because I'm so busy doing a lot of activity and things like that, One time in the morning I got up because I had that feeling.
I always do that when I have the feeling of urgency and need to get up and do something. And then I was thinking, well, this is actually that feeling that makes me get up and get moving. And then I realized it was a feeling I didn't want to feel. So once I get up, I'm doing my activity like cooking, whatever, make breakfast and do my things, whatever I do. And then I realized, oh, that's something I didn't feel comfortable with what happened if I don't get up and feel it. But I feel that urge I need to do it, so I thought, is it now the natural movement without the thought or is it what I'm running away of?
And then I got actually aware, actually I run away of that sensation, so not to feel it. So then I realized, oh, whatever that might be relating to a thought or whatever, you know, whatever that is. But the main point was that I actually didn't want to feel it. And then, of course, when Bob says that it's not pleasant, that's the pleasant feeling. So then I realized, oh, can I actually hold that feeling in the awareness, you know, like... And then I got more aware of, oh that's something about me, not about the other person of course, I'm feeling it, I allow myself to feel it.
So then from that onwards, of course my past relationship is relating a bit to it, but now I feel like sometimes I feel like crying and I don't actually know if it's because of this or because of that. Sometimes tears come out and I don't actually can pinpoint it too much to the story all the time. Good. But sometimes I do, so it's sometimes hard to say. But then also, of course, the relationship, for example, it's that what was, for example, childhood situation or feeling not secure or whatever it is, you know, whatever comes up there. Seeing a kinesiologist, I got more aware of these own feelings, not relation to the other.
It's actually then myself and they're just reflecting on the other person or what the story is or the belief or the hope or whatever it is. So literally I could feel a lot of anger and then after anger was a lot of sadness. Sometimes I drive to work and I just cry, cry, cry, cry, cry. I've actually literally cried so much in a continuous time in the last two or three months. Two months, yeah. But then after the anger, the sadness comes with the tears, then after it feels like releasing, it feels like, oh, after it feels like, oh, this is over. So it sort of more gone and then once I go to the kinesiologist then something else comes up what about this and then it like sadness again and this is then gone I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the world I was a bit of a I feel it as if I just feel it as you know when you enjoy you don't be like you don't breathe a lot you just enjoy so if I just do the same before it's warm and then I realize oh it's just a sensation as well which is just feeling that way so you don't have to breathe or act on it or react on it.
The sensation, you can just feel it, without physically acting on it, which also could mean like if some personal emotional sensation is you don't have to act on it, you can just feel it. Yes, you can have a little experiment. And what was beautiful, I really liked what you said, you know, when you actually watch, You being more and more conscious of the motivations, you know, how your body moves away from things. When you look at the natural world, this is great thing to recognize. When you look at the animals, they also, they are not driven by craving. They hungry and they move away from hunger.
That's when they hunt and kill. They are, you know, avoiding all sorts of different problems. So in that self-help sort of a growth ideas they say, oh this is wrong when you are motivated away and not motivated for. There's nothing wrong. You're learning about that machinery, learning about the body-mind. And the way you describe it, it shows that you are the consciousness aware how the body moves, how it absorbs, how it avoids certain feelings. And then again, following Bob's invitation, you come into this feeling and you stay in the point of resistance and that of course opens up much more freedom for you. Freedom to feel, freedom to experience.
Experimenting with feelings, that all brings much, much more freedom. And that beautiful realization that, oh, this is how I operate. This is exactly what Gilbert often reminds us about, one of the main pointers. Watch the mind, see how it functions. Watch the body, see how it functions. You notice little things and you see that those things are noticed in the awareness. So you are prior to what you notice. You learn, you know, like you learn your body, there is a heartbeat and then you run up the stairs And you notice the heartbeat is faster. And then you puffed up. You notice those things. In the same way, you notice how the feeling of needing to cry arises.
The feeling of releasing arises. So you are the witnessing presence in which you notice these things. This is great. I mean, your observations are really superb. You have that attitude of that witnessing presence, which is great. The content now, there is nothing wrong, nothing that needs to be fixed and you know it. Because you see how things change, how more comes up, more get released, more get healed, and you have no judgments about it. So that's beautiful, that's really great example. Yeah, it's like a decision, like if the feeling is there, you can act on it, but you cannot, which is still the mind then.
For example, then after all this, let's say grieving, a lot of motivation came up. And new chapters came up, like, I know what to do now. But it's of course the mind again, acting on the feeling of motivation. But it feels more alive because then when you talk to people, I'm more tuned in and I'm more happy as well. But also then it just goes in turns again, like it feels like depends what the curve goes extreme or smaller, but you're always going to feel sad and happy. Yeah, the more the degree of freedom, the more letting go, I love that observation, you're more tuned in, you hear people better, you're more alive, you're more present, You are less withdrawn into that self-obsession and more available to whatever is happening in front of you.
That's wonderful. I like the way you articulate that. And the obsession is probably a bit of a pattern as well. But I also realize now if I use it for my benefit. Then it helps too, but good to be aware of it as well. I love how you just said, you know, the pattern of obsession used for your benefit, because you can really direct that whole self-interest into learning about the mind, the body-mind, into really watching it and observing it. That's a lovely way to put it. That's one thing, and then also obsession in relation to work and other things as well. And to realize its obsession, okay, don't go there, go maybe there if you want to express that pattern.
And it's also the way the attention directs itself and gives you the opportunity to learn more, to investigate deeper, to bring awareness. Because attention is that life force. So that's good. Beautiful. Thank you. Okay. Ben? There's only one thing people obsessed with. It's me. Me, that's right. What is that me? Yeah, like in response to that, I've been, I think like a big point for me is that, you know, Sometimes we like, well, I feel like a big issue is that we're very kind of disconnected from our bodies. Like, you know, this whole embodiment thing is, I've really undervalued it for a long time. You know, this kind of disconnection from the body.
I'm not the body, more than the body, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, we can just, a result is that, or can be that, we're just in our thoughts all the time. And you're just kind of going around and, you know, the embodiment aspect gives you the ability to kind of separate from the mind. Maybe you're not quite at some kind of nondual state or whatever, but at least if there's a lot going on, you can get into the body, out of the thoughts, out of the self-judgment, be with the experience a bit more. Buddha's main process is Vipassana, which is scanning of the body.
The teaching is that you have your thoughts held in these tensions in the body. There's non-awareness but it gives you that space to see your thoughts. You may have some nondual awareness or whatever, but if you're not aware of your thoughts and patterns, then sometimes we can react. So, I think there are ways to go about things. That's a beautiful tip, beautiful and helpful tip for everyone. If you are completely lost in that sphere of imagination, the easy way to step down from the daydream is the present sensation. And where is the present sensation? It is in the body. You can check the sounds. The hearing is, well, it seems like it's outside, but it's nothing outside.
Hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, the easiest one, you know, check the tensions on your neck or on your back. Or feel your lips touching each other, feel your muscles on the face. See what tensions are there, because that's the present sensation. That is happening right here, right now. The story, the dream, the imaginary thing is rooted back in, like how Bob says it, the fairy tales. Once upon a time. Thank you. Once upon a time. And this present sensation, it happens right now. Right now happens whatever it is, the restless legs or whatever it is, the reflux or the shoulders or neck tensions. All of these are very simple and easy ways to relax from that stressful story.
There can be a number of reasons why we seek this nondual state. And like trying to come out of suffering is one of them, you know. And so the suffering can be what drives people and that's just kind of this kind of natural process. And kind of a big lesson in a personal lesson in that like journey is this like is this self not judging your thoughts or whatever going on And learning that kind of, it's like building this muscle really of non-judgment, like awareness, but also the non-judgment with it. If we're looking at them, like these thoughts and ideas and everything, but we're judging them, it's a cycle.
Then you've got all these judgments coming up. Especially if you believe the judgment, because when judgment arises and you just notice it and push it aside. Yeah, you've got to let that go too. Yeah, good point. So thank you for sharing your journey. Yeah, thank you. That's really good point. Just yeah, let things arise without resisting judging. And I think what you said really came up for me, what really came up for here is even when there's an awareness When there's an awareness of patterns, a pattern is in the mind and the pattern is a story which is in time related to this me that we think we are.
And so even when there's awareness of that, there's nothing we can do. So even when there is an awareness of a pattern, you can't change the mind with the mind. All you can do is be aware of it. And then what happens is the truth eats away the lie and the lie is the story or the pattern. So yeah, the reference point and the reference point is the me that that's happening to. And so what's amazing is when the focus is more on the awareness and less on the story, is you'll have a way of reacting for many years and all of a sudden that's not happening anymore.
And there's a shift and that shift is like sort of like right back here. And that shift is like a sort of a recharge of joy as Navi was saying earlier. It's like a booster if you like because what it shows you is that you never did anything. And yet the mind keeps coming and going, oh but, but, but, but, but, but actually you never did anything. Beautiful, beautiful he said. So watch the mind, see how it operates, and see how this self-image is constantly being referred to, Sometimes in a very covert way, it's a sacred sort of journey, blah blah blah. And there's a sort of a collection of experiences, good experiences in one basket, bad experiences in another basket.
Some people have a pretty full bad basket and some people have a full good one. And you ask them who they are and they'll start picking out things from the baskets depending on, you know, if they're down on themselves they'll start picking out stuff out of the bad basket. Oh, poor me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, this is what, you know, it's actually possible to recognise this constant referencing of the self-image. And it's a fiction. For me it's a fiction. There's no such thing as a me, you'll never find a me. It's just a habit of referring to it. So that means it's essential to really investigate and see, try and find this me.
You know, Bob used to say, well that idiot up there said there's no me. Is he right or is he wrong? I should find out for myself. Which basically in ordinary languages is have a look, see if you can find this me. It's the thing, the fiction that causes so much psychological suffering and it's unnecessary. So all these experiences that I collect as my identity, is there such a thing as an experience? It's just a story isn't it? The experiencing is uninterrupted and you can recognise that in yourself. The experiencing is never interrupted by any phenomena or anything It life itself which is spontaneous It cognition or as Bob calls it the activity of knowing And if you look at that the activity of knowing that all there is There's nothing you can postulate that's outside of the experiencing of knowing.
It's not someone knowing something. It's not knowing something yesterday or tomorrow. It's an activity and an activity means it's something happening presently. So there's nothing that separates you from that knowing. You are the consciousness or you can break it all into different levels and things and it's just nonsense. The immediacy of this knowing doesn't belong to a personal entity. There are no entities really. There's just this activity of knowing. And by staying with that immediacy, everything reveals itself as it is, but not as a sort of story to get put in one basket or another and constantly referred to, because it's ever fresh and ever new.
You cannot store this activity of knowing in memory. You can't do it. Try and do it. You can't. Because the uninterrupted experiencing is always there. And it's not attaching to anything. There's no suffering in it. Consciousness itself is totally and utterly independent. And you are that. And we add these stories of levels of consciousness and spiritual journey and practices and methods that don't actually work. Methods and practices are actually psychological suffering imposed upon a person I think I am. But you've never met that me. You've never met that me. You wouldn't know it if you passed it in the street. So that's my penny's worth.
Except everyone thinks they've got one. But I was thinking that was a great spiel, Kat, at the beginning, I'm especially talking about knowing that love and then there's nothing really to fight about anymore or to criticize from that point of view. And a friend of mine, I've been talking to them for a while about nonduality and they're all into that, always sending me bits of Eckhart Tolle and stuff like that. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the self. In the course of my investigation, the I mean everybody dies but it's not fair and all that sort of stuff but it's really lovely to be able to relax in that loving to be and realize that everything is all right and it's just the mind that plays the tricks on us.
I suppose it is that, just seeing that the bad and the good are opposite ends of the same stick. Just the oneness. But if anyone has got a better way of explaining it, I'd love to hear it. That was beautiful. I don't have a better way. Thanks for sharing everyone. Thank you. Very grateful to hear that. Different pointers. Yeah, the thought that I'm just aware of a sense of creation or creating. And then in my head I sort of thought, oh just, you know, destruction, like it was very negative suddenly. But then I was like, well actually that is, it's a form of creation. Creation is everything.
I Aam That, Ramana Maharshi, I Nchagiri, Dzogchen, Veda, Vedanta, presence-awareness, Mahavakya. And I saying oh there no love for that other person but it because it can be everything if it also including somehow the ability to be just this bit for this time or for a relative amount of time I guess Don't you love how you hate them? Yeah, so just being in touch with that being as a creative force, I guess, is what's coming through, listening to everyone. The crucial issue is whether there's a me or not, and whether we're willing to look at that, I think. It boils down to that. Lawrence Olivier, the great Shakespearean actor from England once was asked, why do you do it?
Why do you go out on the stage and play all these different parts with such emphasis and such beauty? And he said, look at me, look at me, look at me. So we may well be like Lawrence Olivier and play our parts with such passion. In the end it's all about that, it's all about whether or not the me exists. Thank you. Thank you. Julia? I'm just including the, like, I don't know, 18 to 20 people joining us online. The numbers rise and fall, but... So I was just going to include the comments, some of the comments that have been coming up online. So there's a lot of love messages and Vivek wrote that he just it's nice to hear the direct experiences of everyone who's been sharing and I agree it's wonderful.
And then Henia said, love what Jane said, you can't change the mind with the mind. We can observe without judgment. The shift is beginning to happen here. Amarnath wrote, pattern is nothing but separated self-centered reference point. Shift is also an imagination. Later we will understand as if no separate or inseparable operation both are also false. Thanks Jane. And Martin O'Leary wrote, if you are waiting to hear an idea that grasps who you are, you won't find it. Because who you are is ungraspable, it's free. The mind has also learned, oh my gosh, what nothing comes free without effort. But this one thing, which is the epitome of anything any so-called person could ever get is always freely happening.
Change the belief and slowly you will start to settle back into your natural state. What the so-called person is looking for is always happening. Armanath wrote, there is only one major pattern, for example, I am something so and so, I am body relations, possessions, both mental and physical. I am body-mind, I am without word or shape is the self, me without me. And Henia wrote, we are all just playing parts, aren't we? Who is loving, who is hating? Beautiful. So that's contributions from the internet. I just wanted to share that. Thank you, thank you everyone. Yes, this is what is uniquely beautiful here. As you can tell, as you can see, hearing, everyone.
There is no one who does not have inherent knowledge and knowing about the essence of things that they are. Like Gilbert was saying, the constant experiencing. There is no one here who is not in that state of experiencing. It's just the little stories here and there to be recognized for what they are, the stories. And I love that analogy about the two baskets, you know? I am the poor little me. There is a center in the brain which is responsible for imagining me in time. And there are drugs that can stop it for a moment. There is radiation or whatever, some frequencies that can stop imagining self in time.
There will still be referencing to the shape of the body so you can move freely, but the imagining self in time can actually be chemically modified. So there is no doubt that this self is imaginary. And referencing to that imaginary self and judging that imaginary self and judging the situations, every judgment that arises
The idea arises in relation to me that, oh, this is bad, oh, I don't like those, oh, I want to love everyone. Who is the I? Yeah, I love what you said, Cliff. Yes, that is often the idea that is associated. Oh, I want to love everyone. Oh, Julia wants to love everyone.
Who doesn't? Hello. Who doesn't want to be in a state of constant pleasure? Love is pleasant. I love the rain. I love the sun. I love my enemies. Well, of course, that's pleasant. But there is no pleasure without pain. So even those sort of situations, they have to have the opposite, otherwise they will be selected out of the field of knowing. Because all the knowing is, is knowing on the background of its opposite. That's how the duality works. So yes, love how you hate them. I'd just like to say quickly on that, that what came up there was that's all surface stuff. Yes. What's all that surface stuff appearing upon?
That presence that you are. That's right. The me is a basket case. Well said! This is brilliant! The me is a basket case. I'm keeping that one. I'm going to put that as the title for the video. I love it! The me is a basket case. Or the computer list. Or the basket case. Well said, Joanna. Yes, so anyone else would like to actually just prove the presumption that I keep repeating here, that everyone not only is already that, but is already aware of being that, deeply inside. You know, if you go to your heart and you relax out of the conceptual thinking and judgments, there is nothing that would object to the fact that this isness, this being, is underlying, This experiencing, the subtle delight in experiencing or preference for existence is underlying everything.
And I love what Bob says. He says, Can't teach you anything, can't tell you anything, can only talk to that I Am that I Am. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That says it all really, doesn't it? So yes, I'm inviting that I Am within everyone that is, you know, it's already present and awake and aware and it's not obscured, it's here to speak up because that actually is the greatest message to the world as it will be posted out later on that everyone is already out, is that and it's really, really easy to relax out and Speak from that field of knowing that you are. Just knowing that you are.
There's nothing else really to be put on it. It's not about having an understanding about scriptures one or the other. It's about the awareness of presence, affectionate awareness of being, or Sat Chitananda. Just relax back into that heart of the hearts of the essence of presence and see what comes up. See what insight comes up from there. Never not here. Being, knowing, loving to be. Yes. So this is my little story. A couple of days ago, I got into a lot of trouble. Oh, Jane. Just anyway, so I was told like relationship stuff, you know, like in relation to people. And I was told like I need to look at these patterns, I'm watching all this going, jeez, like there's a real understanding that there's no one doing this thing.
Yet there's still, there's no exemption of responsibility or anything like that. There's still, the character plays out that role of being responsible or whatever. I was told all these things and I'm watching it and it's like, wow, alright, I'm going to be better and more self-aware and more, I can't do any of these things, I can't do anything, totally helpless. I'm watching this person and all their responses and their projections and it went on because it was layers upon layers upon layers added to layers. And I'm looking going, wow, I am that. I am that. I'm not different to that. I am all these things that are being said and whatever, the energy of the whole thing and that person.
I am that as well. It's totally helpless and useless and beautiful and there's emotions or whatever, there's feelings, there's stuff, there's energies, there's just the whole show. There it is. There it is. I don't know, I'm just sharing some. Oh God this is so potent this is so brilliant and so perfect because yes it doesn exclude you know to realize that you are not a doer It not an excuse to never do the dishes It not because if you recognize that there is only life there is now life telling to life go and do the dishes So I can't use it as an excuse to not try to eat right and, you know, really?
You can, but there will be life using the excuse. I liked that excuse. Yeah, the life will be using it as an excuse. That's the point. When you see, when you see in the, again, the animal world, in the birds, the way they negotiate the territory, one bird is yapping on another and they obey each other. There is an alpha wolf instructing the younger wolves. There is no question that there is an Adoer anywhere. And yet they find their place in the Kairaki. They find their place in the territory. And Pesto doesn't seem to care that he's blackened, that they're not on the healthiest diet, do they?
Oh well, they eat fairly healthy. No, but, well, they're overweight, right, so they eat too much. Blackened doesn't go, I'm eating too much. No, no she does. I've already had too much cheese this morning. And see, again, even the situation when actually life comes up with the information, oh, you shouldn't be eating cheese, it's not good for you, or you should do this, that, or the other. Yeah, but I'm not the doer, I can't do it, I can't change. That is, again, life responding to itself. And you see, you know, the attitude of life is also, ah, we'll see how the situation will evolve. We'll see how it unfolds.
Is there, was that instruction, do the dishes, stop eating cheese, was that instruction producing effect in that body or it wasn't? Is that going to happen or it isn't? I'm not the doer, so we'll see. Is the body going to do them dishes or no? Or is it going to just lie down? Or is the body going to come up? I mean the whole machinery. Come up with the excuse, I am not the doer. How is it going to unfold? You are, like Dean was saying, you are all of it. You are the witnessing consciousness in which you see how it is going to unfold.
I can't tell you, you know, like there is nothing, absolutely nothing in the whole manifestation that does not change. The change will and must and does happen all the time. So, Dean is changing, you probably have changed 100,000 times every moment of every day throughout your relationships. And this change will continue. Which way? That you can't tell. You can't tell what's going to happen next. No, you can't tell. And you say, I'm going to do this or I'm not going to do that. And I'll be arguing about it and meanwhile it happens, doesn't it? That's it. As if it's completely divorced from the thinking. The doing or what needs to be done either happens or doesn't happen and the debate can go on about it.
Yeah, yeah. So, in defense of the me, There is a very beautiful quote from an enlightened being who you all know. His name is Bart Simpson. And it goes like this. You weren't there. You didn't see me do it. You can't prove a thing. Yes. So we seem to have the good basket and the bad basket and now we have Dina's too hard basket. I heard something or read something yesterday, a little reference to the Buddha in a book. And it was something like what Kat was talking about earlier, that it's equally true to say there is no self as to say everything is self.
Yes. That was one little thing. And another thing which seemed really significant was... So significant I've forgotten it. I love that. It sort of relates to karma. It was really succinct. It was something that, an answer to a monk, a Buddha said, the body is not yours, nor is it anybody else's. It something that manifests through interdependent causation to be experienced now Just seemed very... Very accurate, really well said. Oh, Paula, yes. It's been said a few times today, just relax and be in the loving to be, like the cat. Beautiful. Cat wants to go there. Oh yeah. Yes, thank you. Got it. Kat is ordering us around.
Did you want to say something? Yeah. Yeah. Was it Dean? Yeah, your point was so interesting, like a different perspective. Because I think like, I don't know, like some part has been like trying to say I'm not me or whatever. Actually I am. It's just this kind of little mind game that was happening that I was like, no, go back to this. There was this back and forth, looking I'm not that, blah blah blah. I'm going to just be in whatever this state of awareness. There was a pushing away or a sense of movement or something like this. And then this kind of bringing in of that and accepting the me.
That's a really nice way of angle of coming at it. Thank you. So, I'm not sure if I read this one already but Henia said, we are all just playing parts, aren't we? Who is loving, who is hating? Vivek wrote, eyes looking outside, senses experiencing, world are all adding to the story. What is giving energy to eyes, senses, is the reality. Amarnath wrote, thank you all, and then Vivek wrote, The only thing to do is just be at peace, relax, but it's so difficult for the people to relax in the natural state. We have a good morning from India. Self is nothing or everything beyond description, like deep sleep state, stateless state.
We have a good morning message and we've got... Amarnath wrote, which comes and goes is non-self is the greatest pointer. And that's it. I'm going to mention or just sort of like throw this in before the end is say if you're in the U.S. and want to join us tomorrow, you'll do it with me? Because like I guess... I think you're going to be fine. But I can't start the meeting for Bob's thing. Of course, of course, of course. I'll start it for you. So yeah, we'll be on tomorrow morning. I mean, if you need help, I can give you a hand, but I think you're pretty capable yourself of hosting the meeting.
Yeah, I'm fully capable. Good. I can't, I'm not as eloquent. Oh, you are. You can chat, you can out-chat me 10,000 times. Yes, so for the American groups, Julia, and this, the Zoom group that comes on Sunday, Sunday afternoon for Americans. You check the website please because there is a change of time. We actually had the We came out of the summer time tonight so there will be an update on the website and Julia will be the hosting but that group is pretty eloquent in all together Bob really loves how everyone participates And not only Americans everyone who is interested is invited for the zoom groups all of them.
Yeah Maybe he just didn't remember that. Bradley, I like what he said, except I'm not so sure how warm it is he wrote. There is nothing like swimming around in the shit called me. It sure feels warm. That's one way of putting it. Thank you I think we got to go the other way That alright I think, yeah, swimming around. It seems like a trend with seekers, but also with what I remember, you take these pointers, you might have an experience, And then the experience is claimed by this believed-in entity and it's conceptual. And then you're swimming around in the shit called me. And you're trying to wade through it like, I need to give more attention, I need to become more aware, nondual awareness, I'm actually not the doer.
And you play, this is the swimming in the shit called me. I'm trying to sort it out and get through it. I'm nearly there. That's the wrong way. That's the right way. I need to be more in the moment. That's what it is. I need to breathe, lessen the body awareness. Expanded awareness. Expanded consciousness. Oh, now I'm there. Oh, now I've lost it. And then it's back again. This is the basket case, this is the swimming in the... Swimming in the mud. Yeah, but there's a realisation it doesn't work. It fails. No answers in the mind. It fails, it falls apart and it's just endless sinking in this quicksand mud of me and it's just like, and then it's given up.
The ship goes cold after all. The ship goes cold, very cold. And stinky too. So thank you. Gina, you're identifying the swimming in the... The... The... The... The... The... You're identifying the swimming in the shit of me. Yeah, and it's like how long before you realize you've fallen down the hole. You start this process and then it's like, oh shit, I just fell, I walked straight into that. And it takes you a while to realize you're doing this, falling into the shit of yourself. It gets shorter every time, the distance between it happening and you stopping it from continuing. Beautiful. It's a habit pattern. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, thanks for that, Dean. Oh yeah, thank you. I've got words for it now. That was supremely presented. I think you've got incredible acting skills. It was like Oscar performance, honestly. And it is really, the search is the problem. That's what Bob keeps saying. The search is the problem because it comes from the assumption that there is something to be found for someone who is there to find it in the future time. So trying, trying, trying. What am I going to do better? What am I going to do more? And then more and more, not this, not that, and then concerts, concerts, concerts. I can't do it any better than you did, this was brilliant.
So I guess people who relate to that beautiful art performance can actually see now, because seeing it, how it goes, also when you said, Gino, how it starts and how it starts rolling, and then the moment of recognition, of stepping back, oh shit, I'm doing it, oh, okay. This is the moment of respite and this is the moment of celebration. Because instead of, you know, like, oh, shit, I'm doing it again, whoops. Now, in this moment, usually what happens then, oh my God, I've wasted an hour, I shouldn't have gone, you're back in it. But if you actually relax, step out of it, like, now, wow, I'm awake now.
This is the main point. When you recognize that this is that shit of me going on, now it's not. Freedom. And I'm dying again. Freedom. And as you say, the moment of respite, the moment of freedom, putting the nose just above the shit. Ah, yes. Those moments come up. It's like Neo in the jet flying above the clouds. They're flying below the... in the clouds and then suddenly they hit this place where the realisation hits. Yeah, that's what I feel. There's no condemnation. It's just, oh fuck, I fell for it again, you know, I went down that hole. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, you didn't, there is no you to go down that hole.
It's just a habit pattern of that attention going habitually to the thinking process. Yeah. It's okay. It, the sky has not been touched by it. It's just relaxing out. Yeah. And yeah, but I love the descriptions and I love everyone's contribution and thank you for showing up and for sharing your heart. heartfelt wisdom and understanding. Thank you for keeping me coming. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you everyone.