Content is not separate from consciousness. Sailor Bob and 'home group'. 26 March 2023

Ali Gilbert Julia Ross Josh Zaron Lottie Adrian Michael Nima Marie Tim, Veda Roger Shanti, Jamie Ava Justine Tapp Dean Bob Morning everyone. Good to see all these happy faces. What we talk about is what they call in the ancient scriptures non-duality, Advaita. Non-duality means one without a second, not two. Only the one essence that patterns, shapes, forms, experiences, expresses as everything. And there is nothing other than that. And so, I don't know what you're here looking for. If it's only that. That's the great mantra, I am that. And don't we already know that? Because you say, that's the chair you're sitting in, that's the carpet on the floor, that's the room in the chair.

The chair in the room, I should say. That's the flower. That's the flower. Everything is already that which we put labels of words on and discriminate it with the word. It's the one essence appearing, expressing as everything. And we've got this idea. We are these individuals, these persons, these separate entities. And when you look at it and realise it's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be unhappy or depressed or guilty. That me, that believed in this separate entity, this me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And realise that there is a way out of it.

You don't have to be that poor miserable human being that's having a bad trot or this, that or the other. And you realise your true nature. You realise your true nature. The one essence, that patterns, shapes and forms, expresses and experiences as everything. They call it atman or self in the scriptures. And they say there's only the one self, the one atman. That we've got this idea that we are these personal selves, these individual selves. And that's the cause of all the conflict. That's the cause of all the truth. And it's pointed out in a lot of the scriptures and all the texts, that that is all there is.

That's the cause of all the truth. And that's the cause of all the truth. And that's the cause of all the truth. And we've taken on this belief that we are these separate entities. And living from that point of view, most of these so-called human lives have problems. And it's absolute. It's the one essence that patterns, shapes and forms, experiences everything. Has everything. And that needs to be recognised. And that needs to be recognised. They call it a cognising emptiness in Buddhadom. And we think that that emptiness, that we are cognising that emptiness. But when you investigate it, you'll see that emptiness itself. That has that capacity of knowing.

Or cognising. And the Buddha told you that a couple of thousand years ago. When he said that emptiness is form. All these patterns, shapes and forms. You, me and everything else. Everything is in these patterns, shapes and forms. He said emptiness is form. All these forms are emptiness. And he turned it round the other way and said that the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. So though we appear to be separate entities and special forms. In, innate nature and essence with all that cognising emptiness. That vibrates into all these different patterns, shapes and forms. And expresses through them. That vibrates into all these different patterns.

And, in, innate nature and physical forms. Tells you in Isaiah in the Bible, be still and know that I am is God. Looking for this thing, looking for this thing you believe is God or some superior being or higher power. And it tells you that, that I am, which is the same I am as you would express yourself if somebody asks you your name. You'll say, I am so and so. But that I am is the godly soul or the supreme being. And that's another label we have on supreme being. You call yourself a human being. And if you believe in this God, you'll call that, what your concept is, as a supreme being.

What happens if you take that word human away? Take the word supreme away. And without the word, try and separate the beingness without the word that's dividing it. Can anyone negate your beingness right now? And beingness is not what was. It's not what will be. It's being. The ing on it. Gives us something that's happening right now. Anyone who is not being right now. And that's how they express the non-dual teachings. Sat, Chitta Nanda, Nama Rupa. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness. Ananda is being or loving to be. And the Nama Rupa, Nama is the name we've got on ourselves. The Rupa is the form.

The body mind, I'll tell you, Nama Rupa is Maya. It's illusion. They have all these patterns, shapes and forms, before you look into them and investigate and see that they are illusory. They call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So all this manifestation, phenomenal manifestation, it's all appearing or seeming to be real. But it's not real as it appears. In its essence, it is the one reality. As there is only that. But in the pattern, shapes and forms which it expresses as, are all illusory patterns which seems to be real. So that's what we're pointing to.

The very fact that you are already that. And the search, you've probably been on some path trying to become that. Or seeking to become one with God. If you like to understand. But when you realise it's only that, there is nothing other than that. As you know already because, as you see it, that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. It's all that. Which we put the words on. How many words were you born with? When you look at it, you realise you weren't born with any words at all. You didn't pick up the words or learn any language until you were about two, two and a half or somewhere around that age.

When the capacity of reasoning developed you. And fussing around your parents, or your parents fussing around you, you learnt words. And when you told you that you are little Billy or little Jane or Jane or whatever your name might be. And somebody asks you who you are, you'll say, I am Jane or I am little Billy. You've taken on that word. Instead of recognising that you are the reality, you now believe you are this separate entity, this individual. You know, you are the only one who is born with a child. It wasn't until you learnt those words that you could say that. Because you didn't have any words for the first couple of years of your life.

You were living and born. So how can you say you were born even? People say I was born. And they can remember their birth. But how could anyone remember their birth if you had no words to say? In the first couple of years of your life you didn't have any words. But you were living and born and existing then. But then we were discriminated when we learnt the words. Make it worse. Now when you look at that, you'll see it's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be unhappy. Me that can be depressed or guilty or jealous or envy. Taking on these words, putting other concepts onto them.

And got all this conceptual image about ourselves. which we call the ego. The self centre. Or the reference point. And everything becomes relative to this reference point. Or ego or self centre. So all our problems are problems of relationship. That's what relativity is, relationship. Me and other than me. And recognise there is no relationship at all. It is the one essence. That pattern shapes and forms and experiences as everything. And every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak. The word is not the real. It's not the actual thing. Take the word water. Drink the word if you can. Have a drink of the word.

You can't drink the word. Because it's not the water. The word fire. Try and cook with the word fire. Burn yourself with it. Eat yourself. Try and sw... I just said the word swimming. Take the water out anybody. I said that too. Anyway recognise that the word is not the thing. And we've got all these words that relieve it. You can't remember your birth. You had no words. How did you come into existence? Well people that have understood this will tell you... that there is only life. You have to be the other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other.

The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. The other. So. the other. the other. the other. understood this will tell you there's only life, the sargeneta will tell you that, there is only life, there is nobody who lives a life, life is all there is, out of life more life comes and that when you look into that you'll see that's a fact too, there is nobody who lives a life, out of life more life comes and life lives on life how did you come into existence?

well didn't you come into existence through the life of your parents and aren't they coming from the life of their parents and the life of their parents that little, that pattern you call your father, that undermining life that is in that pattern that you call your father through the essence of the food he's eating and the prana in that life a little microscopic particle called a sperm was formed you can't see it with your naked eye but that sperm was diffused with intelligence energy, with life it knew what to do and the same in that pattern shape you call your mother that pattern shape and form you call your mother in that life another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum formed again which you can't see with your naked eye that ovum was diffused with intelligence energy it touched itself the wall of the uterus and it knew what to do also it was a sperm it was a sperm it swam to the ovum again pointing out it wasn't just a willy-nilly activity that was going on it was a fused with intelligence and knowing what to do it knew where to swim to and what to happen, what to do to attach yourself to penetrate the ovum and when that ovum was penetrated those two merging together that cell doubled and doubled the life in it doubled and formed the little embryo the little fetus which is what you are today what were you doing about it then?

nothing and you might think you're doing a lot about it now but can you do any more about it now? you were beginning, the life was beginning then and it's going on today and you are the life itself not the person not the separate entity not the individual life lives on life and out of life more life comes Christ told you a couple of thousand years ago I am the way I am the truth I am the life and the life people thought of talking about himself he wasn't talking about himself he was talking about that sense of presence that translates as a thought I am that I am-ness or sense of presence of the way it is the truth it is the life and that is what I am about the age of two somewhere around that age the capacity of reasoning develops more and more and that little child that little embryo and it learns more ways in all words and it hears parents tell us your little Billy your little Jane or whatever you are and say I am this little Billy and if someone asks you who you are today you'll say I am Billy or Jane or whatever your name might be instead of saying I am the reality that reality that reality is absolute nothing can be added to it nothing can be taken away from it you say it is all absolute it always has been always will be but we believe ourselves to be these human beings beings if you recognise you are the absolute what can be added to the absolute?

not a thing wouldn't be absolute if you could add anything to it what can be taken away from it? not a thing again it wouldn't be absolute but none of us recognise that we all take ourselves to be this separate entity but have a look at it if you were the absolute and you realised it and understood it could there be anyone inferior to you if you are the absolute? or anyone superior to you? and what would you want from the other person? so a lot of these world problems would be taken away would fall away if you just realised and recognised your true nature you are already that which nothing can be added nothing can be taken away and Sarkarata tells us that when he says there is nothing can trouble you excepting your own imagination imagination have a look at that break that word imagination down to image in imagine and realise that that we are imagining all these problems and all these thoughts things are conceptual images that we are it's not the real thing look in a mirror you'll see reflections or images in the mirror you looked in the mirror you probably look in the mirror everyday ever go up to the mirror ever go up to the mirror and try and grab your reflection out of it or the image out of it you realise you can't because it's not there but you can't say it's not there because it appears to be there so you can't say it is and you can't say it isn't but you can recognise it and know the truth about it that applies to all these concepts and images in this world today you can't say they are there you can't say they are not there but we imagine this we imagine that all stories we can con- con- cocked in the mind so and so said something to me and I don't like it I'm caught on it and blah blah blah the story goes on and we beat ourselves up with the word and the word is not the thing I'm not good enough or I'm fearful or I'm unhappy I'm anxious or I'm depressed all words tells you in the Bible in the beginning was the word the word was with God the word was God that's all that God is is a word another label we put on there all things were made by him by the word and there was nothing made that was made without the word have a look around you now haven't you got a word for everything all made by the word but the word's not the real that we believe it is the real cause all the anger the fear the unhappiness depression all happening to this believed in me this separate entity it's only me that can be fearful it's only me that can be anxious only me that can be depressed guilty shameful jealous envy me is the cause of all the psychological problems and the anger the fear the unhappiness and the loss are the effects of the cause cause and effect isn't what they call that what they call karma so called karma I've got to watch out for the karma cause and effect but what would happen if I investigated and looked and seen the cause was a fiction and I asked myself the simple question can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause or can there be tested out for yourself and see if I'm not relating to the cause there can't be an effect or where are all these problems I've been beating myself up with all these years where are they going to lodge if there's no cause for them to relate to don't you realise there can be freedom peace and joy from all this conceptual conflict that's going on we're beating ourselves up everyday with the word and the word is not the real and recognise that and wouldn't it be imperative that I look into the word and see if the word was the thing see if I am this word or concept that I believe myself and they tell you again in the scriptures that the false cannot stand up to investigation you've got these false concepts ideas which we've never looked into and never believed we've just taken for granted when our parents told us I am little Billy or little Gene and realised I am little Billy and you looked over there and said that doesn't fit Billy so that's not me or that's not my my that's when the sense of separation come upon you and I've got this conceptual image that I am now this person and I kept reinforcing it went to school and the schools reinforced it and everybody around us the parents and the Billy were reinforcing it I start reinforcing it myself and it's just a natural to me it's just become a natural way of functioning and a natural belief that I am this person not realising that's the cause of all my problems and when I look into it and see that the false the false cannot stand up to investigation and these concepts that I have are false as I would have called as a cognising emptiness and we think we are cognising that emptiness that's what the we have the capacity of cognising but it's not at all we as these persons don't have the capacity of cognising at all the cognising is happening the knowing is happening and we put the cognised we believed in entity on and believe in these forms and take on the idea that it's happening to me that it's only me that can be fearful only me that can be anxious me is the cause so when I see that me is the cause and I ask this simple question if I'm not relating to the cause me can there be an effect?

well there can't be an effect and the Buddha told us that the emptiness is form and he says the forms are nothing but the emptiness so now I've got this conceptual image this conceptual form and I need to look into it and see if it's real or not and just a little bit of looking into it and questioning it I'll see that this me or this I that I believe I am can't do anything at all because it is not what you are Satchitananda Existence Conscious Bliss Existence Are you existing right now? Of course you are Right here, right now in this moment you are existing Are you conscious right now?

Well you're not unconscious are you? You're not unaware are you? So you must be aware you must be conscious and are you happy to be right now? Well you don't want to be dead right now so of course you want to be so you are already that but we've got this concept on it and believe we are this person but you already are that as the existence consciousness bliss another way of putting that is being knowing and loving to be Are you being right now? Of course you are Are you knowing that? Of course I know that I am just natural So I'm already that So what's this idea of I've got to become something and becoming implies a future time So investigate time and see if that's how it appears to be and when you look into time you see it's not how Is there a past if you don't think about it?

Have a look and see Can I say there's a past if I don't think? I can't say anything at all without a thought Is there a future if I don't think about it? I can't say there's a past or future without thought but I was in the past Well try go back and try and live yesterday prove it to yourself right now live yesterday live yesterday or live last week you realise you can't go back and live last week or last year you can recall it you can recall it but you can't recall it all either you can only recall bits of it the rest is gone and gone forever so it's only what you can recall that you can label as the past so past is just a mental concept what about the future?

you say I live in the future and you realise you can't you don't know what you're going to do when you leave here or when the stalks finish you don't know at all but you can anticipate and imagine so the future is only anticipation and imagining and the past is gone it's dead where does that leave you? present and aware right in this moment so you are already that this presence and awareness this being knowing knowing and loving to be and loving to be where does it all take place? well they call it a space like awareness you're not unaware right now and awareness awareness is like space space has no pattern no shape no form what are we all sitting in here right now?

we're sitting in the space does the space have any boundaries to it? does it have any centre to it? can you grasp it? you can't see but can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? what would it be in? and you realise it would be in something and it would have to be in space so you see we can't say what space is because it has no pattern shape or form but you can't say it is not either and you can't postulate or anything outside of space so everything must be the contact of space so you're a thing I'm a thing the tree's a thing the flower's a thing all this manifestation are things space is no thing and everything is appearing or seemingly so in space space is no thing can the content of space be anything at all?

it can't so though we are appearing and seemingly as these pattern shapes and forms we are the no thing that's appearing as everything so recognise that you are already that that is all there is that is all there ever was that is all there ever lived there and I think it was Moses on the mountain who was in charge of all these Jewish people and they were all no law or order going on and he thought he would have to do something to control them they are playing up and he is sitting pondering over it all and he is going who shall I say sentence it came to you there and then there and then this thought came to him which performed the commandments or the tablets and he says well I've got to take these down and sell them to the people if they follow these rules they might become even better live a bit more culturally but then again he says they have to take these down and try and tell them to the people but who shall I say sent me and the thought came to him there and then tell them that I am sent you and he realised in that moment I am that I am and can any of you say anything different when you look into it you can't you know that you are you know that that translates to the thought I am so that I am-ness is the sense of presence it's not the thought the thought is not the same as any other thought it's just a concept but it expresses as the sense of presence the story I am that's why Christ could tell you I am the way I am the truth I am the light he realised it wasn't repeating I am it was recognising that sense of presence and the scriptural statement is know the truth and the truth will set you free what are you free from what are you free from the bondage of belief that you are this person this separate entity have a look at that word belief we believe this we believe that but have a look at it get your dictionary out and see the definition of belief the definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason means we haven't reasoned out we haven't looked at it we've accepted it which you did when you learnt words we accepted that the parents told you you're little Johnny and you said I am little Johnny instead of seeing that that's the name that they put on it an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason acceptance of an alleged fact an alleged fact without positive knowledge of proof when you put your beliefs under that test and have a look at them you might recognise and realise what we're pointing at might see it in a different light see it in a different way but from that recognising you'll know the truth and be free so that's what I'm pointing to and ask you to look along those lines and that'll do me and the cattle say a few words then throw it open and you can all get stuck into it and tears in pieces or enjoy it or do what you like away you go Thanks Tom Thank you Maybe I'll about to have an ear here's something Yes So welcome again everyone we have 20 people with us online and we have a few good morning everyone messages from our online community and a good question really good question from Gioti Is it possible to get further clarity on cause and effect that Bob refers please?

this still holds true in the physical sense if someone tumbles and falls they are likely to be injured with or without an attachment to me Thank you Ok, so I'll answer I wanted Bob to answer it but he's busy I know so the first thing about the karma and the cause and effect and the most important part of that definition which Bob uses is investigate the me which is a cause of all psychological suffering this is not a cause of physical pain and as you rightfully notice yes, that's right physical pain is inevitable the body whether there is attachment to me or no attachment to me like if you look at the cats that are roaming around here they still get sick they still get old they still get injured and cats as far as we know do not imagine to have a little controller in the head that runs the show so it is the difference between pain and suffering pain is inevitable suffering psychological suffering is totally avoidable so if the trip and falls happens it's not that I fall because I tripped it is the whole universe it is the whole universe it is just everything including the quality of sleep including the weather the atmospheric pressure the conditioning the whole world is like a surface of the ocean when the wave rise here the water goes down there so it is all interconnected so it's not that there is a singular cause because I tripped I fall and injured myself but yes the pain the pain that is caused by the trip seem like very kind of simple cause and effect and it has it is completely unrelated to the imagined me is unrelated to any imagination so I hope it clarifies we are not claiming that without the imagined self injury can't happen because you can see the fires happen to trees trees obviously don't claim any imagined self so the disclaimer is the psychological suffering here and still cause and effect Bob pointed out and Nisargadatta pointed out it's not a singular sort of a connection like there is a day because there is a night well you could say that for the convenience but really it all depends on 10,000 things and Joy to say it does not matter Joy to say it does clarify thank you wonderful but do you want to add anything to it?

No so that was the only question and now we open it up for everyone to share to contribute ask questions tell us what works for you what pointers are really striking home which ones need further clarification? as Bob said we have a lot of people here with either very good clarity or complete clarity and yeah we invite them to help each other there is only one one Julia? oh yeah I'm just thinking out loud I guess I guess share what? it's hard to comment after something like this you know so it's like it's hard to say anything what can I can't add to the perfection try it it's fruitless pointless it's gonna be perfect yeah well yeah well hmm I can't I can't it's hard to it's like it's hard to even come up with anything to I'm like at the same time I'm wanting to just to keep the room moving thank you I was thinking a little bit about what that person said about the cause and the effect I guess what's coming to mind is actually something I saw Gilbert write once on Facebook I just loved it about Mickey Mouse that's right yeah he was talking about like well Mickey Mouse and all that the dream character and all that can you get anything real out of that?

will it be a real mouse that would come out of that? when you see that the mouse or Mickey Mouse or whatever it's always been fictitious can what happens to the drama of the me? don't say I'm so disappointed she's shattered thank God so one thing that Bob pointed out years ago that I heard was all directions are in the mind all dimensions are in the mind you know you know the story of me is a story and a story has story lines and you follow the line of the story and you see the good or unpleasant or whatever but it's a story and you know the other thing that struck me from Bob's first book was watch the mind and see how it operates it's such a simple and direct not an instruction just not an invitation just a pointer watch the mind well who's going to watch the mind?

you know that's what the mind comes up with I'm watching the mind but you know consciousness this is a really fundamental thing about consciousness consciousness is independent and what does the word independent mean? it means it's not influenced by anything outside of itself because consciousness is all there is no matter how it you know the content of consciousness is not separate from the consciousness so all the drama and the geometric patterns and the sacred geometry and all the rest of it all the things that are going on are nothing but the consciousness but what is my identity? who is watching the mind? and as Bob pointed out the cognition is happening the cognizing emptiness is happening spontaneously the seeing is happening spontaneously the hearing the knowing is happening spontaneously where does this me come in and say I'm doing this?

Shiddhartha Meshwar said the arm moves and the arrogating eye says I did that these are really very direct pointers and am I willing and who am I to be willing or not willing to have a look at this? watch the mind and see how it operates the consciousness is independent it doesn't change and this is a significant thing that one can actually recognize so you know the character is up and down depending on moods and what's happening and everything it's dependent on external circumstances it's not real so come back to the fact that I am the consciousness and then try and stabilize with that trying you know who's trying it's just the stories are endless and if you watch the mind and stop following thoughts and storylines something dawns you can't say what it is you can't pin it down it's ephemeral it's timeless awareness is timeless it doesn't change and we're constantly being bowled over by the changing and wanting this and wanting that just be quiet watch the mind see what happens Jacinta?

Hi this morning I was walking before here and I saw some people I hadn't seen for quite a few years they just lived around the corner and I could see the mind trying to make excuses trying to make excuses for myself and blah blah blah but as soon as I said who's thinking that thought and just let go it was just pure bliss and I could and I just said hello how you going and there was no story it was just bliss yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah brilliant brilliant example brilliant example yeah see how the thought comes in a way to still the show and cover up the reality of the mystery of the moment I know the mind was going trying to make excuses where I live what had happened why I wasn't living there and I let go of the whole story and it was good yeah yeah that's gorgeous that's what actually in Courses in Miracles is called a miracle it's not a miracle but suddenly that whole construct of the world overlaying that simple moment of incredible mysterious unfolding get covered up with that construct and when it drops away suddenly there is like almost like not just the perspective shift it's a paradigm shift out of being me trying to justify work it out I know find excuses I know it opens up and wow And those little miracles are wonderful.

Thank you for bringing it up. It happens to every one of us on every occasion, every day. Just even noticing it. How the mind invites you for the little trip into that confined daydream. And when the invitation is being ignored, opening up. That's just lovely. And yes, it is simple. It's that simple. And it tricks you up, doesn't it? Totally. It's tripped me up for many years. Yes, that is its function. That is its job. As the program which is designed to look after the survival and comfort of the body. Part of this program is to constantly look out for innovations and improvement. As it grows and everything that it does.

It seeks for something else. Something better than that. But this is not. This is just a software. When you recognize that this is just a program. It's how it works. It is doing its job. The way it is designed to do it. There is no need to subscribe to it. And take it to be the reality or the truth. Because reality or the truth is what is happening right now. What is being sensed, seen. Even that is a dream in essence. But without the concept dream, not dream, this is what's happening. Thank you. For the sake of releasing a little bit of stress through speaking in a public place, which is what I'm doing now, there are two people on YouTube that I watched a few years ago that debate about a definition of consciousness.

And one of them defined consciousness in a way that I loved it. He mentioned consciousness is that with which all experience is known, that in which all experience appears, and that out of which all experience is made. This is one thing. Another thing is the response to the person who talked about or asked about the cause and effect. So if we consider or assume the beginning of the forms as 13.8 billion years ago, which is the calculation by considering the linear time, which is orbiting the earth around the sun, we non-dualists consider the whole reality from 13.8 billion years ago till this moment as a singular event.

So the reality is a singular event. Because the reality is a singular event, it will be nonsense to say one event caused another, because it's a whole singular eventing, so-called. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bob. Always beautiful resonance. I don't really know what I'm going to say, but I just want to grab the microphone. But... What came up for me was it was that you were going to say, but... ... ... ... ... ... ... Oh, Antion, can you pass on Julian? Yeah. Thank you, Bob. Always beautiful resonance. I don't really know what I'm going to say, but I just want to grab the microphone.

What came up for me is like the energetic field is already there. It's boundless, timeless, whatever. And not an arrogance, but this thing, like life is just set, there's no separation, and yet this thing wants to come on and claim, I've got this separate life to the immensity of life. Just like if you really look at it, the immensity of life already functioning is there, and then this thing coming in saying, oh, but this bit is separate, and I'm running it. And it's just seeing that. Really, that's, yeah, that thing appearing and claiming it, like it's already sort of, like it's, and it's after the fact as well.

Like the life is already there. The awareness is already there. And then there's this thing coming after the fact, appearing on it and sort of saying, I'm separate and I'm doing all this stuff. And it's fighting with what is actually happening. It's like what is happening is happening. And it wants to get on there and change the script and say it should be this way or this way. And it's just fighting with something that it has no ability to actually directly change anyway. So it's just, yeah, but it'll kick up a stink for a long time until it finally, I don't know, it feels like it gives up after a while, like the pain gets too much or something, and something clicks or something shifts, and what is, it gets stronger and sees through it more.

And it becomes the reality rather than the mind-based reality. But anything that's a thought, that's searching or looking is already stepping out of what is. And that's the giveaway. Any searcher, any unhappy, any not contentness is stepping out of what is, and it's seeing that whole story and character. I don't know. I haven't had much sleep, but... That's, yeah, that's beautiful. That's why I have a hard time talking sometimes. Because it's like stepping in. Yeah, just back to cause and effect. I just think it's, you know, it's an old story to keep people in ignorance, you know. You know, we've been taught since children, as Bob so rightly points out, that we're separate, and that there's a me that is responsible for this, that, and the other.

And if that me doesn't do what it's told, well, there's going to be repercussions to that me. So, you know, and that goes back thousands of years too. You're going to go to hell, you're going to, you know, things are going to go wrong, you know. It's all your fault and blah, blah, blah. So it's a very old story, saying that you're, you know, you're a separate entity and it's your ballgame, really. But we all know that's just a story. Yeah. Beautiful. And Jyoti said, thanks again for subsequent responses too. Yeah, so that's a, that's a beautiful insight, you know, that separation thing, that it somewhat, somehow, gets so much attention that it is taken for granted as reality.

Because for the practical uses of the body, of course, there is perceived separation of this body from other bodies and from the space. And again, it has practical uses. It is nothing wrong. The cats, they don't consider themselves one body. There are two of them. But they don't have a story about it. They don't have the narrative saying that now, I am right, you are wrong. They still provide for the body. They're still seeking for comfort. All those programs that are designed to do their job, they're doing their job. But they don't cause psychological suffering because there is no attachment to their personal story. Thanks.

Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Kat, as always. Sitting here, kind of listening to Bob and listening to everyone talk and share, just kind of slowly over the hour or whatever, this energy, I can just feel this energy not building up or like filling out. It's almost like letting go and then what's left is just like vibrant. Like it just feels vibrant in here. Like there's so much life and, I don't know, love or there's just this beautiful being sitting here listening to everybody and, you know, as soon as Bob finished talking, I felt like there's this urge to say something, like this energy, there's an urge to express it or something.

And then, you know, this voice comes in and it's like, is that true or is that, you know, the ego wanting to assert itself? And there's this kind of monitoring like, oh, is that real or is that something else? And, you know, as soon as Gilbert spoke, he pretty much hit that nail on the head. It's like this monitor comes in and it's not is that the ego, is that true? It's just the urge is there and that's, there's nothing else to it. There's just an urge. and this searching for the source of the urge is kind of the trick almost. That's the trap to fall into.

And I've had this weird feeling sitting here. I've never sat here before and when I sit here I can see myself in the mirror and I feel like I'm on a Zoom call at work where where you try not to but all you do is sit there, you look at other people and then you have this little video of yourself and you see yourself and inevitably you become obsessed with checking yourself you know like is my hair okay? Like you can't help it and it never happens in real life because in real life you don't have that mirror but you do have this thought always like self-obsessed thought going on and I just had this awesome discovery last week that in my Zoom calls I can hide that little window that shows my face and as I was sitting here I was realised and I think as Gilbert spoke and everyone spoke it was like ah that's you hide this little window and then you're just there paying attention to what's in front of you not self-obsessed not constantly thinking in on yourself and there's this beautiful freedom that I've discovered at least in my work calls now where I can hide that window and I'm just listening and like you know maybe 50% of this self-obsession slips away because you're not focusing on this image of yourself and that was just a beautiful thing that kind of awareness of why this is so freeing to do at work is kind of like I don't know analogy for real life yeah so I just wanted to share thank you fantastic you were great yeah thank you yeah good yeah that reminded me of something I heard many years ago a story of a dervish dervish and he had the most magnificent beard of all dervishes in his area it was a magnificent beard and he became aware of the vanity that was connected with his beard so he decided he was going to cut it off but he thought he better check with the master first and he went to the master and told him I've decided to cut my beard off and the master said why it's a beautiful beard and he said well it's the vanity you know he said keep the beard deal with the vanity my mum used to say vanity vanity all is vanity and it is really the self-love in love with itself it's really like Mr.

Gadada says every movement which means every creation every pattern every shape every form is an expression of that one life for one love so everything even ugliness is the love longing for itself it's a child of love it's a movement and we call it ugliness only so we can appreciate its opposite if not for ugliness there wouldn't be beauty so it is inherently it's inseparable so that's yeah amazing i love i love the metaphor i love i love the metaphor of the beard and vanity but also about zoom yes focusing on the image it doesn't have to be in the mirror when the mirror is not there the self-obsession is still focusing on the image i don't even have to see the image to think of the image how do i look what do i think about me what do i think about me do i have to improve grow all that focusing on the image yes when it is in front of you and you look at it it may be a little bit more kind of amplified but even for people walking down the street and i was one of them not that long ago focusing on the image what does it mean to me what is it for me what is it you know like everything was related to that imagined self which doesn't exist never did i don't know how related this is to non-duality but what's coming to my mind is just a story i don't know if you're all familiar with patch adams robin williams did a movie about him and after the movie he did a documentary called clown vets and what he did was he got these big burly army veterans with ptsd they're all suicidal ptsd army vets want to kill themselves gets them somehow to wear tutus and clown noses and brings them down to guatemala where they do clowning and they just get silly and they play with rubber balloons i'm sorry balloons and rubber chickens with little kids in guatemala and for all of them what happens is they they usually will tell the story that they don't have the depression anymore and i think what's what's happening is they're not thinking about themselves you know i mean it's that fucking me and the zoom call that's the problem huh you know so they're not they're not giving attention to that me or the story or the story about the me or the story of any of that they're just being with those little guatemalan kids and just that's all that's happening and it's not really non-duality i guess but it kind of points in the same direction if you just if you stop thinking about that imaginary me everything's one it is the same yeah it is the same and it is one it's not that something is and something isn't non-duality or duality it's all one it's yeah it's a nice example it's really the way most of if you look at the majority of the of humans how they self-medicate that angst existential angst it's by getting busy by getting creative getting artistic getting the attention away from that angst and investing it in either helping other or destroying other or doing whatever else that diverts that attention away and then there is a bunch of people who actually put that attention right in and that's called investigation and it has lasting effect because you don't depend once it is seen through you are not depending on that sedative or medicine of getting busy with clowning or getting busy with saving the world or getting busy with painting or doing music you are the freedom is freedom from all need for drugs alcohol sex anything because whatever the body does now in its story is not essentially your true nature it's just the expression yeah yeah it's just yeah and there's nothing right or wrong about it you know if the life chooses and the life doesn't really consciously choose because it is conscious only when it expresses as the consciousness but anyway if in one or the other pattern it chooses itself to experience and express as the tree or as a villain or as the hero and it's nothing right or wrong it's not that someone who looks into or investigates is in any better position than anyone else because there isn't anyone else it's just one essence experiencing and expressing as that one essence you're all of it you're all of it you're the one who found the truth you're the one who seeks for the truth and you're the one who realizes there's nothing to find or seek for or you are the one and admiring the expression or loving the stories and sharing it without taking any position or judgment or even with seeing assumed positions or judgments it's just how it dances we had a few emails oh yeah no no you go just on the zoom calls I presented to 173 people week before last on zoom and that would have been impossible for me had I not had these teachings I thank you very much the bottom cat for these teachings I would have been too self conscious I would have been able to do it and if I did do it I would have prepared for like maybe three weeks and memorized it all and then been so nervous but I just did it and the curious thing about the zoom calls I started off really well and then the gallery was in the way so I had to hide the gallery so I couldn't see anyone and because the internet kept dropping out like the week before it had dropped out on me three or four times I thought well maybe they're all gone maybe there's no one there I was talking to myself so I kind of just kept going hoping that they were still there they were luckily I don't know what the message was there but the reflection back of all went back to me as well all of a sudden is there anyone there at all anyone anyone were you going to read something no no we don't actually have any more questions yeah yesterday I had this experience very blissful of just being you and I was you and you and the sky and there was only there was no you and me in the sky and it was just everything and nothing and it was lovely how about now there's there's now there's sort of a little bit of a veil of I don't know you know I don't know it's good okay it's made a thought that's what it is it's made a thought how did you do that I didn't you didn't cool did you buy it from Woolies or probably I started probably buying these things when I was two but anyway there was a there was a I guess I guess what's coming to my mind in a moment is that do you Bob or Kat ever like just sort of like know exactly what's going on in my head without my being here like you can see what I'm seeing or whatever why why would you not see what I'm seeing if you were me why would we care yes it just thoughts I mean okay go ahead you have something to say about that the me cannot see the me is an imaginary entity that's supported by belief it can't see it can't hear it can't do anything it's Mickey Mouse yeah Mickey Mouse is not going to jump out of the cinema screen and come and shake your hand and I'll give you some popcorn it's a fiction you have to see that it's a fiction I can see that I think I think what what I'm saying I can see that it's a fiction yeah what about the veil that's a fiction too okay so if you don't think if you don't give it substance then is there a veil no there's no okay I'll rest my case your honor I surrender me too Bob do you want to say something no no sorry I think in the first instance one needs to do the investigation in order to know who you really are you really need to dig deep and have a look I like to say in the privacy of one's own illusory mind if you like you have to you can't do it in a group you have to do it where you're alone when you're alone and really really genuinely looking if you do that you'll discover who you really are you'll see who you really are as but after that then you are assailed by the mind still with its tendencies you know and in that moment you need to apply the rule if you like of just simply being aware the more that you attend to that duty you're just simply being the deep awareness that you are all thoughts will clean themselves up of their own accord and then the mind will be liberated as well as knowing who you are thank you just something that Julia said before about a veil not necessarily a clouded mind veil might also be you're in a blissful state you suddenly realise there's this transparent nature that appears and it's sort of like a veil it's very it's completely transparent and yet it's there and you suddenly realise that there is a kind of luminosity and it's like seeing the light separate from the objects and the scene that's obviously there and it's a slight kind of revealing of this true nature and it appears like the very finest of veils things but you're in a blissful state so you're not identified with a separate self or a self-image it's like they describe as seeing the light it's just the natural beauty of something but just reflect it back I'll just make a small disclaimer because it sometimes happens and it's completely innocent and very inclusive to speak in a way that oh you do this or you look at that and you know like you look deeply in the solitude don't look in the group that is inclusive and kind but that may also somehow create the confusion that that's how you gotta do it because that's how it happened to me and that's not entirely true because Bob saw through it in a group of people he said that I pointed it down and bah that was a group I was in Bob's presence that was just like ah and again it wasn't really achieved by any doing that shift of paradigm or the dissolution of a paradigm really where there is no I am the me and now I am the space no I am is there but I is nothing anymore that is no definition anymore it happens or it doesn't happen and there is really no condition to it and yet we still appreciate everyone who shares it in a way that is beautiful and inclusive just that little disclaimer it's not a criticism at all it's just to make sure that it is highlighted that it does not have any conditions or rule that no you do this you sit 20,000 hours of meditation like some suggest or you go into the I.M.

for that long or you stay for three years those things are just pointers which have no application because there's no one to apply it you can't become what you already are that's exactly right yeah and even the veil as Gilbert beautifully pointed out exists only when you think about it when you label it when you kind of imagine a situation that there is something in a way and of course that imagination becomes an experience because it's believed it is just what is moment to moment it's just what is without even needing to name it in any way yeah I'm really fascinated by this conversation about particularly the distraction especially in relation to what you just said about there's no condition because I find myself always struggling with guilt of not being dedicated enough you know I should be doing this I should be doing that I shouldn't distract myself and yet you're saying there are no conditions so shouldn't I just relax and just distract myself that's but then how do you know if you're distracting yourself to avoid something or if you're doing it because you can just witness it it's just an expression of your nature how do you know how do you know Gilbert explained it really well when he was quoting Sidara Meshpa that the arm moved and the eye takes credit for it there is nothing that imagined self or the Mickey Mouse can ever do so every idea that I'm doing something wrong or I should be doing something different is just taking credit everything is just life waving there is nothing that individual does right or wrong because there is no individual so it is really just stepping back whatever is happening destruction is happening or relaxation is happening whatever is happening you are the space of consciousness in which that happens just remembering to relax and being who you are the space in which destruction happens relaxation happens the judgment the doing the non doing all of it happens as it is conditioned the body mind is conditioned to act as it does and it happens within the field of consciousness so relaxing back out of any idea that I should or shouldn't or do or sure and also somehow the distraction can be compulsive to avoid actively avoid looking in and then it's very hard to observe it or you can in fact but you may distract yourself so you don't have to step back in a way that you want to get involved into something and then you step back and it's a bit like meditation I suppose and you go oh I did it again yeah what's the you that distracts what's the you that distracts yeah I don't know it's just a it's a bit like any addiction really it feels you know it's the it's the Mickey Mouse not wanting to or thinking it's itself I don't know it's just a learned action like that yeah a standpoint that you go back to just because you learned yeah maybe a habit yeah exactly that's what it is it's years and years of training like Bob said since you were two and started learning things and absorbing things and training the software like you know to go back to a certain position of this is me believed me which obviously isn't real but that's just where it keeps going back to until it's seen deeply enough and clearly enough over and over until it's seen through pretty much and it slowly dissolves it's it takes yeah and it can be difficult of course at different times but the more it's seen and the more clearly that it's seen it slowly sort of loses its hold not really no it's another thing I've been thinking about a little bit lately as well is the deconstruction of words which Bob does a bit you break down the word to see what it actually means and I think a big one that we sort of touch on a lot is desire and I was breaking that down the other day and so D to move away from or to undo and sire which is sire is another name for Lord so another name for consciousness or God or in the animal world sire is a breeding animal so a creator so to move away from your true nature so every time we desire something so when you want something you're moving away from your true position like what you really are so every time you desire you're moving away from from your yeah your authentic sort of being your awareness and yeah so desiring is keeping you away yeah so like and I was just thinking the only the only sort of desire you could sort of want is to be free from desire like that's the ultimate desire to have no more no more desires yeah it's well that's probably the last one that you'd ever you'd ever sort of want yeah yeah thank you it just occurred to me that you were quite aware actually of what your mind was doing in that moment yeah not unaware you were quite aware in that moment you mean in most of the moments of my life yeah well in any moment in any moment truth sometimes yeah well try to get out of awareness you see we can't we look at it you are aware all the time yes yeah and the desires the desire we're talking about is a bit like the beard you know you want to leave the beard on and the desire can stay you know it doesn't need to go you need to deal with your identification with a person who desires rather than remove all desires and leave in the hut yeah the desires could be there but as long as you're not owning that's it yeah we have a comment from Vivek he says I exist without any attributes is that it does not require any proof it is the proof of itself yes and and exactly desire of its own is just a label for the energy that moves and any other label liking disliking whatever the body is conditioned to do body is doing the digestion body is doing the thinking or body mind whatever the whole machinery and we don't claim credit for digestion or for growing hair don't need to claim credit for the for the narrative it's just the function it's just how it functions and as as you say you actually could manage to see how the distractions come into being so the great point Peter you just really where the consciousness the witnessing presence in which the activity has been witnessed now the subtly comes oh it shouldn't be this way that could also be witnessed oh there is a little veil there oh that could also be witnessed and all those things are just the waves on the ocean they fascinating if there is no preference or or like or dislike or judgment they all equally fine they're fascinating the body of course will color things that sweet is good and bitter is bad because that's linked to survival but that space witnessing space witnessing presence it also witness body with its likes and dislikes and preferences and it also doesn't judge the desires or anything the space is always neutral and all enveloping and welcoming and stepping back from that tendencies into that all allowing and enveloping space that's the key we had the questions from people who are so beautifully admirable they actually really resonate with the way Bob points it but they don't speak a word in english so they sit with google translate they email they use youtube translate they have really valid questions one of the questions was actually this from Xin Xin Ming how to transcend the likes and the dislikes well first of all who would be transcending what for for the space it doesn't need to transcend anything whatsoever the body mind doesn't need to change or fix or stop or start anything it is already working as it should it is just that somewhere along the way the image the imagined self came into the picture and it kind of sits halfway through between the space and between the body and it vacillates oh yeah I'm this I like this I don't like that no I'm not this I don't this also can be witnessed it is like a like a shadow like a shadow picture on the screen and yeah go on I don't know why but I'm reminded of one of the Zen stories there's some fantastic Zen stories and this one is there's a monk who's been with the monastery for 20 years and he's going for a walk with the master in the mountains just the two of them and it's a beautiful day and the monk says to the master master I've been a faithful monk I've been with you for 20 years and I just don't get it I just don't get it and the master says well let's just sit down here on the grass for a moment and they sit down and then the master says do you hear that bell ringing in the valley and monk says yeah I hear the bell ringing do you hear that dog barking in the valley yeah I hear the dog barking that's it everything is that that's it you hear the traffic the tram going by that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all that it's all thativo it's all thativoivoivoivoivoivoivoivoivo beneivoivoivo contribivoivo所ivoivoivoofivo It's all that.

That's right.