Breath or heartbeat need no doer. Sailor Bob and Sangha. 12 Feb 2023

Welcome, I'm Pat. I'm Michael. I'm Sula. I'm Shadi. I'm Joe. I'm Saroja. I'm Krista. I'm Zoran. I'm Nani. I'm Puno. I'm Nos. I'm Adrian. I'm Cole. I'm Peter. I'm Josh. I'm Cass. I'm Dean. I'm Cole. Okay, nice to see everyone. It's always the same thing we talk about, surprisingly enough. You go back as far as you can. And all the ancient texts, even then, it was there as it is right now. Still the same. How could it be anything else? What do they call non-duality? One without a second. Being, knowing, loving to be. Stillness, silence, no thing. But not a vacuum or a void. Pattern, shapes and forms, and that's what you and I are, pattern, shapes and forms, are things.

All appearing in the no thing. Space is no thing. Gravity is sitting in it right now. It's surrounding you. Take hold of it if you can. Try and tuck it away somewhere in your mind or in your head or anywhere else. It has no form. It has no shape. It has no beginning or ending. But try and negate it. Try and get yourself outside of it. Outside of space. Test it out. What needs to happen? As they say, the everything is no thing. And the no thing is the everything. Not separate. Not divided. That chitinanda. Existence, consciousness, bliss. And that bliss tricks a lot of people.

Because I think it's some sort of exotic or spiritual state. It's just the awareness of being. Of knowing. Try and separate that beingness and the space like essence. I'll put a certain label. I am a person, I am this body, I am this mind, but that's not it. An awareness of the beingness, and that's one way they put it. Awareness of being is bliss. Unaware right now, and you basically know that you're not unaware. Do we try to seek to become aware? You can recognize and know that you're not unaware right now. We make a journey out of it, a big deal out of it, trying to become.

We think we do this and do that and do something else, and we've been led astray by a lot of the texts and scriptures that corrupt it, put their own version on it. You've got to do this and something else and do this. And then you might be able to do something else. You might be able to do something else. You might be able to do something else. You might get it after many lifetimes. And we've a good story around it. Becoming, getting, lifetimes, all concepts, thoughts, ideas. Basically right here, right now, in this immediate you see, this absolute knowingness right now. Does anyone say I am not?

You know that would be ridiculous because the knowing is I am. It's not good enough. So, we put the labels on it, the words. I am this body, I am this mind, I am these concepts. Get away from its simplicity. There is nothing simpler than one. And it's not even one. You can't divide one, nothing simpler. It must be so right now. That one and that which you're saying it right now, or thinking it, or hearing it, there it is. But then, those that haven't looked into it, investigate it. But I am so and so. Add more concepts, more words, more patterns, shapes and forms.

And this, the simplicity and obvious. It's clear, it's obvious, and it is just as it is. Right now. And loving to be. Not becoming. It's what is right now. And we put labels on that being. Call ourselves a human being. And then we put different labels on other things. And believe there's such a thing as a supreme being. Or being a chair, or being this. Divide it all up. What is going on right now. The ing, I-N-G on it, there's something spontaneously happening. Just the same as the thinking. The seeing. The tasting. The touching, the smelling, the feeling. Isn't there awareness of all those things happening right now?

I know all that. That's what I used to think. But now I've got to get down to Tintex and find out the reality. And that's... We'd go on the search again. Put all sorts of concepts on. And all sorts of beliefs in the world. The words. And carry on. Calling for the trap. And the division. And separation. Of the words. Not simply... Recognising... That it is so. Just as it is. Right now. Only that. There's a waste in the search. We're dull or shivered. But we ignore what is there before our very eyes. That's the fact of being. So remember. Look in it. Test it out.

I really... That sense of presence. Am I this body? Am I this mind? My body? Well that tells me straight away. As long as there's what I believe to be I. And I believe in the body. And I believe in the mind. And I believe in the body. And I believe in the mind. And I believe in the body. I am. Just like my car. My coat. Am I this mind? Same thing. See there's sense of presence. This I-am-ness. And that's what I-am is. It's a sense of presence. There is a knowing already. Didn't have to look for it. Didn't have to try and find it.

All its fullness. But that's not very interesting. So I've got a good story behind it. I'll get there. I'll get it. I'll get it. I can go. I can go. I can go. This is what it is. I can go. I can go. I can go. I can go. I can go. I can go. I can go. I can go. I'll go into the story and try and find an answer there. Try and work it out. And I did that for years. What happened? The story would seemingly continue on into another story. And that would go on to another story. Stories. Now, if there's awareness of the story going on, what does that make the story?

Doesn't it make it an object? There's an awareness of the story. So it's become objective. Well, as my story, everything that there is an awareness of is objective. You realise you are of everything that's going on in this world. You're not unaware. All the stories are objects. And that's our problem. Subject-object. Dualism. That and recognising. What's the subject? What's the sense of presence? The I am-ness. Is it a past awareness? A future awareness? Something that is within me right here, right now. Presence. In presence with the past and the future behind. Recognise that. That the past is already gone. And the future hasn't yet arrived.

The only actuality is this. Present. Awareness. A knowing of this sense of presence. I am that. And what happens? Well, there's still seeing here. There's still thinking. Still feeling. Tasting. Touching. Smelling. Function is going on. Just this presence. Awareness. Without putting the story on it. That gives it a beginning. And an ending. And that's what storytelling is. Stories are. Tales. All taking place in time. Like the fairy tales. All start with that. Once upon a time. Being with happily ever after. Is there a before? And is there an after? Be conceptually. Only in the mind. They tell you that in the scriptures too. In the Advaita teachings.

It's being. It's not was-ing. Or not will be. What might be or might not be. It's just being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. It's not being. What might be or could be, it's being. It's knowing. What was known or not what might be known or will be known. And it's lovely. It's loving to be. There is a warmth in that being-ness. There is an affection in it. There is a loving-ness. A sense of being well. Test that one out too. Test it out and see for yourself.

Can there be any of the fears, the sadness, the unhappiness? Take a hold if you see that time itself is a fiction. It's spontaneous, beginningless and endless, hard. Nothing's simpler, as they say. Nothing's simpler than one. And they point out that our problem is ignorance. We ignore. We take it to be something that can only be gained in time with a lot of practice, a lot of work, a lot of struggle and with a bit of luck we might become. But becoming, being can never be becoming because it takes us immediately in time. And you see and recognise that time itself is a mental concept, just a concept.

It's a conceptualised thing. It's only this immediacy, this nowness. What is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Don't start objectifying it with some story. Just leave it as it is. This presence, right here, sensation, all sorts of appearances, all sorts of activities. And as Banky told you, a few hundred years ago, or it might have been a thousand or more years ago, he said he called it the unborn Buddha mind. They talk about the Buddha mind, which is no mind. That's why he can call it the unborn Buddha mind. Mind is there if it's not born. Acquired by the concept and belief in mind.

But until we learnt words, we couldn't say. It was not born without a good result. But it can dissolve itself. And just the same as the earth rolls around the sun, and day and night come about because of that, the tides come in, the winds, stars and planets and forms, all these pattern shapes and forms come and go, all spontaneously. Effortless being. How is it effortless? Because who is there to make an effort? An effort that can only be related to something. Effortless being. Who is there to make an effort? to the believed in me. Is the earth making an effort to roll around the sun?

Can it make any effort to come in? Take four hours to come in, once they come in, four hours to stay, four hours to go out, to stay out, all by itself. This pattern is breathing. If I say I am breathing, what's going on? I might focus on it, and I might have shallow breaths or deep breaths, but most of the time, the breathing's going on naturally, effortlessly, and spontaneously by itself. Not even noticed. Just the same as the heart is beating. Without the heart or the breathing, you're not gonna last too long. They're two of the most important things that we can do. We're praying a great attention to them all the time.

We realize that. But mostly, it's left as it is, and we focus into the thoughts, and think by taking a thought, we can do something about it. And on the sermon of the mount, Christ says, which of you, by taking a thought, can add a cubit to a statue? Can you make yourself an inch tall by thinking about it? It says that. Take no thought for your life. What you shall eat, what you shall drink, what you shall wear. What he called the Father, knoweth you have need of these things, and your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. This life essence that you are, the life knows what is needed.

If it's not interfered with, it'll bring it about, naturally, effortlessly, and spontaneously. And that's the hard one to let go of, these thoughts, because we've spent a lot of time learning the words, and believing the words to be real, and acquiring more words. The ensing thing tells us the way language. For in it, there's no yesterday, no tomorrow, no today. It doesn't need the words. So it goes on without the words. Every night when you go to sleep, you voluntarily give up. Give up the thinking process. If you knew, really, for certain that you were the word, you'd focus on it. You'd be keeping it there, making sure it was there.

Spontaneous, innately, you know, it's functioning by itself. Couple of years of your life, you had no words. You were living then. Prior to the word. Is the word the thing? You investigate, you see the word's not the thing. Just names, forms, labels, patterns, concepts, ideas, images that we take to be real. Make them seemingly the thing. And you look into it again. You'll see that everything is really no thing. And no thing is everything. Can't say it is. You can't say it's not. Like when you look at the image in the mirror. The image in the mirror is no thing. You can't say it is, try and grab it.

You can't say it's not there, can't, but you can't grab it, so you can't say it is. And you can't say it's not there, because it's still appearing. And that's where we get lost, intelligence into this life. The nama rupa, the name and the form, which is maya, illusory. The Sāgata tells you clearly and simply. Realise that you are dreaming a dream you call the world and stop looking four ways out. It's a dream. He tells you clearly again that the dream is not your concern. You don't really have to be concerned about the dream. He says your problem is you love one part of it and not the other.

Because you take the part that suits you to be real. The part you like, you love. You love that part. The part you don't like, you don't want. But he says love all of it or none of it. Quit dividing. Quit separating. Leave it as it is. Love all of it or none of it, he says. The rest will be done for you. As it is. There's many things I couldn't find an answer to. Couldn't work out in the mind. Left as they are, they work themselves out. Not necessarily as I'd like them to be. But what Banky says is true. Everything. Everything is perfectly resolved.

It resolves itself. In the unborn mind. Whether you're thinking about it or not. It's all about it. It's all that taste of it. And you can all tell me about it. So don't hesitate. If you haven't grasped it fully. And got a doubt or a question. Don't hesitate to ask. There you go. So we have a few welcome messages from people who are online with us. We have 20 plus people. 20 plus people up and down. But no questions. Good morning to all. Love to all. And that's it. So now the mic goes to you. To carry on. To show us direction. Which way, which pointer spoke to you.

Which pointer would you like to explore further. Or get clarified. Or perhaps something that you could throw into the pot. That would be helpful for others. And yourself. To actually see what you're doing. And to be able to say, well, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.

It's time. This is to use the different forms of the voice that we have. The power of the voice that we have in our emotions. To hear it. Digested by your own system. Or even repeat what he said. What was really heard. That will have its own unique frequency. So I'm going to move the... Welcome, you too. Thank you. I'm grateful. I don't know why. I don't know exactly for what. Or anything. But I just feel really, really grateful. Just at the moment. I'm very, very grateful. Thank you. I'm a lawyer. You're welcome. And I love to answer your questions. for what or anything but I just feel really really grateful for everything that's occurring here, everywhere and in life.

Life is full from moment to moment, isn't it? And lots of nods there. Lots of joining in that, you know, we're all together in this beautiful thing. What it is we don't really know. We don't know anything at all, do we? But we have this hum of the universe in our ears. But you do know that if it wasn't recognised you wouldn't be grateful. True, yes. So we cognise the gratefulness. Thank you. And that is, oh yes, that's gone. Beautiful. But people who come here usually suffer and then it eases off and ends up in a place and a state. Yeah, I've heard some statements like that.

Just an observation. My wife and I spent a fair bit of time travelling over the last few weeks and at times things would get a little bit testy. It happened at least twice and it was a bit startling. So there was an awareness of these two entities. They were sort of playing off each other. And then suddenly there was an awareness of another presence. And that was a shock because people, particularly couples that are probably sort of arguing a bit, think they're alone. And they're... Yeah. And there's... The things that they're sharing they probably wouldn't want anyone else to know about. But there was this sudden awareness of this much stronger presence than the two of us.

So that sort of immediately cancelled out the separation and duality. And there was this knowledge of this strong presence there all the time. Watching everything happening and it's there all the time. And it knows and it doesn't... It's impartial. It doesn't take sides or interfere. But it was just a shock to see it immediately. Yeah. It happened a couple of times. So it just reminds... Reminds one of what one really is. Not some entity in a play and a story. But the... That which allows it all to take place. And it was quite... Quite a little wake up call. That is beautiful. Beautiful. And didn't it feel that that sort of a presence...

That presence is so much more intimately you. It is much more a heart or the essence of who you are. Because the entity comes and goes on it. So you couldn't be the entity. Entity is a story. It appears and disappears. But that knowing. That capacity for knowing. That pure consciousness. That one is prior. And it's just... Isn't it just so much more a heart of your essence than that what comes and goes. Yeah. But that isn't... Yeah. It is kind of... It feels like it's a shocking shift. Initially. Because the habitually identifying being that they identified as a costume. As me. As an entity.

I am right. You're wrong. And then suddenly a bigger picture opens up. Where those entities. Those actors still play on the scene. But that happens within the consciousness. Within the awareness that I am. It is... Initially it comes as a shock. Yeah. But then when it comes... Shows up more and more familiar. More and more intimately. It is known as the essence of life. The essence of the I am. Of what I am. It is not that it is it. You can see how easily it could be interpreted as the presence. Big Daddy in the sky who loves us. That it. From the entity perspective.

It is it. The higher power. When that higher power. When the attention shifts out of the entity. You are that. And then that's the natural state. It happens naturally. It's somehow you know there is nothing entity can do. To stop being an entity obviously. Because you know like what costume can do to stop being a costume. It is. It is what it is. But the relaxation makes that mind open. And that whole story open. Lovely. You said it beautifully. I think I have a... Yes. Tanya says knowing I am not the story and the story about others is not true. Sometimes the story is taken as personal though.

How do we set boundaries as parents? Well you will see how the life sets boundaries through you as a parent. Because as we can look around you can see that in some cases life doesn't do very well. I mean life always does well. But in the particular role it uses whatever the capacity it has. So if life moves you to learn about parenting or setting boundaries. You may find yourself getting a skill. But it is always the life. Yeah. And then Jonathan says thank you dear Bob. Good morning Kat and everyone. Oh yeah. Yeah. And tell us Tanya when you are moved. How you see the life moving you to doing all those things.

Interacting. Connecting with others. Setting boundaries. All of it. All that life does. It uses the pre-programmed pattern of the body. Mind machine. And it uses its capacity to learn. To imitate. To acquire new skills. But this is life doing it. The parents don't do that. Parents are the vehicle for the life. Dean would you like to say something? No. No. Adrian. I was going to say. Like to the previous point. Yeah. I think that presence seems to have an amazing ability to resolve problems. To resolve things a lot better. Like it's coming from a space of it's not going to aggravate a situation too much.

Like it's sort of I've just noticed in relationals a lot of stuff was abrasive before. And it's much less abrasive now. Like there's just there's not a sometimes it might be but sometimes it will come up. And there's it's not adding fuel to the situation. It's coming from a place where the other person is. The other person doesn't have a lot to a lot of fuel to go with. Because it sort of diffuses it in a nice way. I've just noticed in the same situations before the response is a lot different now. Do you know what I mean? Like they might say the same thing.

But it's just like that hasn't landed or it hasn't. Yeah. Not always. Sometimes in traffic it can be challenging. But yeah. Yeah. I just noticed it has that ability to smooth things or not take on that stuff and can see through. That's just that's a person response about something. And it's not it's not my stuff or whatever. I don't know. I was just observing as it's changing over time. I'm not sure where this is going to go. But let's let me just say something. Tanya was asking about her children. You know, we've been here for 100,000 years and we don't know how to bring up children.

And I don't think we ever will. You know, it's like it's like we want to know these things and and we don't. I mean, there are some things that are really simple. Like I've got to get from A to B by bus because I've got to do some shopping. I mean, that's a story. But it's a conventional story. We all have to do it. And then you get more complex situations when you talk about the waves coming in. But the waves just aren't coming in. There's all sorts of intricacies going on. And you can describe them all until the cows come home. But, you know, isn't the story and the essence one?

Just like everything else is. You know, we separate the story out. From the essence. And then we get in a tangle over them. And actually it's all just happening. And there's nobody to do anything about it at all. Beautiful. I just wanted to ask about about practicing or. Well, whether it's necessary or what? What really? Yeah. What? What it is or. Do you feel you need to practice? I suppose some part of me wants to or feels like it can help in some way. Test it out? Okay. Yeah. You test it out and see if you get any results. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. He said test it out.

If you want to be a chef, you do practice. If you want to be a thief, you do practice. If you want to be a lover, all of that activities. If you want to gain a skill, you practice. If you want to have a mind that is obedient and that is focused, that is centralized. Yeah, that is... If life moves you to get those skills, or, you know, skating or parachuting, whatever, that all takes practice. But you can't practice being. Because you can't stop it. It's not something that you start and stop, start and stop. Because every practice has the beginning and an end, where you do that particular skill.

So being is something that is inherently, naturally, always and ever there. What you can actually see is what obscures the awareness of that being or that present. And that, yeah, if you move to design a particular part of, a particular day or particular way of reminding yourself of that investigation, yeah, good point, check it out. Yeah, and I love to comment on what Adrian was saying, because that was just so beautiful observation. How life, and this also, Tyler, with what Peter came up initially, you know, nobody choose to become a spiritual seeker. It is the sense of incompleteness and lack of fulfillment, and sense of deficiency.

Unlovability that puts us on that predicament of restless searching and seeking for the solution that will ease that suffering. And then suddenly when things start opening up, the first thing you notice, oh my gosh, things are not that heavy anymore. Relationships are not that heavy anymore. Things don't have that sense of importance anymore. It's more of a witnessing presence in which the, you know, like Rosalind said. Rosalind was saying the bodies maybe argue or interact. But shifting out of that identification into that witnessing presence makes things much, much, much lighter until ultimately the content of happening is totally negligible. And the predominant foreground is the sense of awe, sense of gratitude, sense of joy, sense of amazement, of wonder.

And in that, of course, everything comes together. And sometimes we go pain and pleasure and hunger and cold and all of it. But the quality of amazement, it stays there. It's never far away. And as Adrian said, the more you tap into that witnessing presence, because what agenda does that have? That doesn't even need pain or avoiding pain and following pleasure. It doesn't. The body needs that. The body mind is having that pattern of seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, and seeking happiness or wanting to eradicate itself from suffering. The empty space or the capacity, cognitive capacity, it doesn't have preference towards the content. It is always at peace and always okay with whatever is occupying.

Space doesn't mind. The more relaxation out of that identity of the body mind seeking, seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, the less of the relaxation into that space of wonder. And it doesn't mean the pain will be less painful. It will be painful. That's not just ever. Like you see the animals, they experience pain, of course. But the suffering is not necessary. The pain is usually called for attention and called for healing and not for resistance. Isn't it? And Tracy is asking, that's a question for you. Here. Oh, Tanya says, thank you, Kat. And parent is a role or costume. Yeah, and I loved what Cole said about that.

Yeah, we have no idea. No idea. No idea how we do it, what we do it. One of the most beautiful, and Peter, you know her, Jackie. Most beautiful, sort of a high vibrational, unconditional, loving creature. Her daughter became a junkie on the street. They don't even. They don't even stay in touch. How did she fail as a parent? She didn't. Not only she's not the doer, but the whole universe created a situation which unfolded that life in this way. And what did she do? How control, how much control did she or anyone else had over the next thought that is going to come? Zilch, like Bob says.

Zilch. Nothing. But yeah, lovely. We have no idea. We'll just take it. Uh. As it comes. And now Tracy is asking, apart from Bob's wonderful book, any other recommended resources you would suggest? Would you suggest any resources apart from your book. And oh, thank you. Thank you. Would you recommend any other resources about your wonderful books and my wonderful book? It comes up. Let her reconcile. Yeah. Yeah, that was a beautiful answer. answer Tracy that Bob just gave to Josh tested out see where life takes you life may take you to read or listen or keep seeking or mix and match all the other speakers and languages and then just don't come and ask us question what a cart only meant when he said that or what Mooji meant just ask them because we have we used to have a lot of those questions now people are kind of more you know that seems like there is so much more clarity and maturity and understanding in that group there is not that much of a guru hopping and guru shopping it's more of the commitment to through investigation rather than being well oriented in all the names and and that's really lovely but if if you are moved to do that tell you what and how to live your life life will move you and Michael does he wanna yeah just a Coles point of the control that we have and I think everyone's heard the analogy of the child in the car with the you know toy car and the steering wheel thinking they're steering but I just brought to mind a documentary I saw about superstition and what they did is they put a bunch of people in a room and then I had to work out how to gain certain scores there's a scoreboard up there and every now and then it'd tick over and I had all sorts of different activities in there so they might shoot a goal through a hoop or they might run over in that and there were all sorts of different activities they're doing and they thought they were trying to work it out and I'm working as a team and try to get the best results in the end it turned out that there was a goldfish in the back room and every time it passed a certain point it went up so the goldfish is randomly passing that it feels a bit like any one what works for you what oh yeah this one what what comes up for me is to um yeah to let go give it give it away and I don't have any I can't hold on to it anymore anyway so just just let it let it let it let it go to the universal any any anyone else and yeah can't can't really hold on to it so it's too hard to hold it all the time it's too heavy so just drop it and yeah see what happens yeah that says bob's books are the absolute best and kathy says nisar gadata book i am that is a good resource and vivek says ramana maharshi books i i'm pretty sure that everyone would have like five or ten favorite books i don't know if we want to go there because bob has his five or ten favorite books too and he didn't name them it's just yes such personal guidance yes you look into them oh you'll see something might hit you yeah might only be one sentence enough to turn things around oh yeah i'll sit in silence or listen to the birds go to the forest listen to the wind that carries the message as well yeah like simplicity simple things like i am that we've all heard that but like the fellow that went to the gurus to teach me truth he said i mean he said i've heard that you know i've heard that but years later he really heard it that i'd heard it many years before but until i got to this target i really heard it but you didn't need to shovel the cow shit for 12 years no it was 17 years before i got in there i looked into a lot of other things but you did sit in the ashram for 12 months shoveling cow shit or whatever you've shoveled yes the search was going on all the time it wasn't necessary but it wasn't seen that it wasn't necessary and you never know when the penny's gonna drop like a hide and sick play um just on that um it's i might just be reiterating what you just said but um it's not the the process or the i guess apparent process of a relinquishing or letting go of held belief or letting go of the belief that you're not going to be able to do anything about it with our beliefs about one self and the the recognition of one's self the the recognition of one's self is not dependent on that relinquishing is that what you're saying or well the the the searching or the the process of let's say purification the recognition of oneself is it is it dependent on that process of purification or do you i'm not sure if i'm explaining it very well um what do we say and they point out that it's already so so what needs to purify just a recognition i think nagarjuna was saying to purify the mind is to pollute it i think that's a really potent quote and i see the i see the dream of that now i'm the doer i can do something i can see the devotion in that oh yes i just want the truth so much i'll do i'll purify my mind i'll question one belief after another i'll let them go you know it's empowering empowering i can do that i can let go of those beliefs i can choke i can choose another beliefs i can have my mind loving and you know that's that's beautiful that's a beautiful dream of the ritual growth and and all that stuff and it all happens in that what you are am i the body am i the mind just that out you see the truth about that you know that there's no nobody no mind no person what needs to be fear of then it is transcending the mind whether the mind is pure or is impure it is recognition that pure discipline undisciplined unpure dirty mind funny mind crazy mind whatever it is that appears it appears on that which you are it is the recognition is uh and and yes you know it often goes this way that all the spiritual me the spiritual ego i will sit and meditate or i will question my beliefs or i will do this and i will do that and that's also how life is dancing it's dance it's not right or wrong it's not necessary or unnecessary it's just how it unfolds but it's not necessarily necessary it's just how it unfolds Bob was meditating, I was meditating.

I did some writing by Byron Katie's Questioning Beliefs. Did it help? I can't say because I don't know what would have happened if I haven't done it. I don't have two lives to compare. That's how life unfolded. And there are people who never had any prior spiritual experience or any work whatsoever. It all depends how that life, you know, constructed that Self. Obviously, you know, even the basic belief that I am the Self, when that is recognized to be a belief — the recognition comes from the beyond the mind. Or I am Joshua, I am whoever. It comes from the beyond the mind whether it is questioned by the mind.

And then the transition happens. Well, it's all up to life. There's nothing right or wrong because life can never be wrong. And who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Who is I? What is I? Yeah. Yeah. What is that sense of presence? What is the I? Who is the I that wants to know? Who asks the question, yeah. So if you are moved to do some work of the other, give it a try. But is it necessary? Well, if you look around, was it necessary for everyone ever emerging free out of the idea of being the mind? No. It happens when it happens.

You know, that is some, like Course in Miracles says that you're only willing and then the last step comes from the totality or God or universe or the spirit or whatever you want to call it. The entity can't do anything. The entity can get busy singing songs or questioning beliefs or sitting in meditation, whatever rocks its boat. But the final step, realization. Yeah. It comes from the pure open field of consciousness. When the perspective of perception happens from it and it sees the mind with whatever the mind is doing in it, all its spins, it sees it from beyond. Meantime, you know, like good doing good deeds, for example, how lovely being a saint, volunteering your time to feed the poor.

Lovely. It opens your heart. nothing wrong if life moves you to do that oh my goodness I wish life moved everyone we would live in the haven it's not it's not really necessary to be concerned about jurification or not in every case yeah Tracy says the quote I of myself can do nothing has been playing in my head and when it does I surrender to life beautiful that's a nice little reminder to be playing in your head and JB says morning guys I noticed this morning that there was life doing bedtime routine rather than out of habit but as something that wasn't something that wasn't something that wasn't something that wasn't something thought memory intuition or habit otherwise it will have been forgotten by personal self and that this happens more often than anything personal notice notices it is more like life is doing life rather than anything personal and it seems to happen to be noticed more frequently but it is after something happens that personal notices please and later ...

and comments a thank you this is really difficult to explain but yeah that's that's beautiful yeah the commenting thank you seeing how life is leading itself how life is moving itself and doing everything and just realization of that brings that spring of gratitude like freedom and byron says life can never be wrong or right absolutely life is made neither right or wrong it's only the thinking that makes things right or wrong good point by them yeah I said this is so another message for Tanya isn't it she asked you how do I bring up my kids yeah you know it's the same question really yeah it was but above maybe remember was it out sir who who who said what we do we are it's like as if we are are with a building rather than the space that the building is in and we worry about the building and what it's health is and everything else then when it finally collapses what happens to the space nothing yeah yeah this is this is this is what we do we worry about something about we're all distressed because because every single perspective of a feeling we're happy things we're unhappy together as we filed last time we I put each of us separately let us all here two thoughts come together very well around what have you been doing well what do you think is the best I would not talk about freshness I really I don't know much but I think what other states love some that is quite relevant to the issue.

Yeah? And it's so frustrating to be told that. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Zai. Hello, everybody. Grateful to be here again. And yeah, I think everything that we've been speaking about is kind of, it's all the same thing. It's all intermingling in one way or another. But in regards to Josh, it can seem difficult because, yeah, because when the person in the presence start dancing, it's very paradoxical. So it doesn't make sense very much in a broad sort of way. So I think there is a purification that happens in a sense. In another sense, no, there is nobody being purified and there is nothing happening.

But there does seem to be that play going on. But in terms of the concept of purification, I think life in itself is just the biggest purifier. It's doing everything that it needs to and it's in its own special way. Like every encounter, every experience that we have, it doesn't have to be, a set formal meditation where you're sitting there and doing things that somebody's given you a practice or whatever, but just encounters in life, the experiences, the apparent growth that happens and the cutting down of the ego and everything that sort of, that happens in the material world, I think, is the biggest purifier, yeah, that you can, that you can sort of have.

And I mean, yeah, I think we've all done meditations and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that either. I think that just shows your eagerness and your determination from the being that, you know, I'm doing everything that I can and I'm ready, you know? So how much of it comes from the mind and how much from a deeper space is, that's something else that works itself out eventually. And yeah, I mean, everything that you can do, volunteer work, just lending an ear to someone or putting your arm around someone and just, yeah, expressing yourself as that unconditional love that you're aiming to align yourself with, whether it is through meditation or giving or just being or whatever it is, it's, yeah, it's all perfect, I think.

Mm-hmm. So there's no one set way, there's no wrong way for anything. So yeah, that's all I've got to say. Thank you. Yeah, that's beautiful. That was beautiful, yeah, I loved that. I like that, back to the point around the misidentification, like the presence is already immediate. It's already right now. It's not even now, but it's like the presence is, there's no split, it's already there. And then there's something that's trying to say, I am this awareness or I'm claiming this awareness as being me. And that's the thing that I think that needs to be seen, because it can be very subtle going, this is my awareness.

And it's like, no, there's no owner of the awareness. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And it's seeing through that, like this is immediate. It's already there. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just so subtle because it's overlooked. Yes. So, yeah, but the mind can be tricky. Yes. Thanks for that, surrend. I suppose maybe where some of the conflict or tension in me is around it is noticing a mix of all these naprawdę 사람 and being alert,iana, no matter who they are in the audience. How do you understand with your mind this hob. Did you have that in your mind? Yeah, of course. I did. So wake up at tomorrow you notice a hole in my heart.

Yeah, I didn't notice it. Yeah, sure, I didn't notice it. Yeah, you can be wake up at tomorrow you notice it, you will wake up at 6 a.m. that well stuff is happening but then maybe claiming or thinking that something that I've done or I'm doing is the cause of that and that that I can repeat that or whatever that is so but I also as soon as that happens if I know you know then it can then it's whatever it is it stops or it changes you know so it's like it's its own feedback loop in a way I suppose I don't know if that makes sense but that's a that's a beautiful recognition that's a really great observation the tendency to take credit for what life unfolded you know it's like in the very primitive it is a great capacity of the mind if you look at the children you know if I will pray tonight I won't be called in the class tomorrow and then they make this sort of rules between themselves or you know if I will be if I'll help the mummy then tomorrow will be sunny and we go to the beach or something so now something happens and the mind straightaway wants to draw the conclusion take credit and repeat the experience and that's a capacity which builds that's wonderful civilization we have all the comforts with so it's a good capacity to have but yes it is the infinite complexity that causes everything situation to happen cannot be narrowed down in this particular case to to the activity and I love what Zoran touched upon the paradox of the you know purification so-called before and after kind of one could speak I did a lot of work of Byron Katie because simply I had the mind which would judge someone that I loved and it felt unpleasant so I would put it on diamond paper and question it and I would question it and I would question it and I would question it and I would question it and I would question it and I would question it just because some thoughts were bugging me and they were unpleasant they were horrible and they blocked stopped my heart and so I did a lot of that work I would be questioning thoughts and thoughts and thoughts and they will be very very helpful very effective the I the ego the spiritual self that I believed myself to be what's much lighter and much more happy when I believe that my girlfriend was an asshole and then I realized that she wasn't and but the real purification, which has not been caused by any sort of a conscious activity of any so-called individual.

It was what Zoran was saying, over the last years I did not touch any of the work of Byron Katie because simply it didn't cross my mind. When the thought would come up, the thought would be straight away recognized as thought. So there would be no need to do all the work and question and see the opposite. No, it's just a thought, so nobody takes it seriously. Who cares? But they were things that never bugged me, ever. They were things that I believed were actually supportive and I would never question that. Why would I question being vegan, for example? No, it is good, it's healthy, everything's perfect about it.

So now those ideas, which I would not even look into as something obscuring the happiness, are also recognized as ideas. No activity could ever do it. It's just a spontaneous life unfolding and showing more and more of the freedom. And I still don't think there is anything wrong with that idea. It's just that that's not the truth anymore. And that's a difference. Seeing something for what it is, an idea, the only truth is that I am, the existence, the presence. The consciousness. Everything else is an idea. So that level of semi-purification is not caused, it's uncaused, it's just the unfolding of life. And it can't be induced by any credit-taking mind or any activity.

But if you are moved to make your life easier and question thoughts that bug you, well, it works, I can tell you. It does. It takes people out. It takes people out of their suicidal depression because they believe nonsense about themselves and about the other and about the world being against them and about all that stuff. Oh, we have ten minutes to go. And it doesn't have to be this way. Although the paradox is, you know, because the life unfolds in the intelligent way, people who are brought back from that pits of darkness and depression, suicidal, sometimes they are being saved from their own self.

And they are not being saved from the self. And they are not being saved from insanity. They may stop questioning. And life in that pattern may never see the full light of itself. And that's perfect too. It's nothing wrong. Not everyone needs to. You know, that life is already awakened, it's already leading everyone. And it's already expressing as a bird, a flower, a cat. thin though you know. Not every vehicle needs to experience and express life in the same way. So if you are moved to question, again you go ahead if it stops your investigation well that's perfect too if it doesn't well equally just let it move you which it does already anyway can't stop it did you want to say something no no um now you have to no well what i was just going to say was that everything is a learning opportunity but it's not cumulative you know it's not like we have to do a lot of the same thing in order to get purified it's like everything can be it can be the ultimate opportunity it's like the question once you know that am i this guy that needs to be purified or something you really you see through the whole thing don't you so that's what's always an offer is that just that one universal moment where you you know oh my god that's it you that'll do yeah rather than being a communal accumulation of good deeds or accumulation of good works that take us home thank you thank you jb says that he's uh he i think he was saying about life living him the facebook app ate the rest of the comment so the facebook app he was typing and it just ate it so it became nothing you uh vivek says cells in the body hairs growing heart beating etc are all spontaneous there is no me controlling it everything is happening spontaneously in consciousness what a good point isn't it yeah the whether the body is sitting meditating questioning yeah it's just like a heartbeat whether there is narrative or there isn't whether there's hearing or there isn't yeah thank you vivek and um um um um ", nat says thank you bob and cat i love you both dearly love you too not and tanya says no one is reacting but reactions happen they shouldn't be expecting that to stop if it is the life responding or reacting no story right yes and if there is expectations for that to stop that's also life so everything that's happening is yeah life's reacting life expecting to stop reacting life wants to purify life comes life through the vehicle of the of the false identity but it's always and only and ever the life isn't it oh please you're mattering me um i think another big thing is uh interpretation of of words we all uh we all understand words in a different way we all absorb and um you know and and look at the information completely different word someone will say to you you know meditation is not the way um but then as the person you still have to bring your attention back to that presence to that being to see to see what's there um in most cases you know over and over and over again you'll have to you'll have to uh exercise that muscle of presence of awareness to bring it back to bring your attention back to remember and um and the same people will say that it's not meditation it's just see what's there but uh interpretation uh is a funny thing because somebody could see that as meditation you know like bringing your attention back to yourself to your true your true nature to that presence could be interpreted as a meditation so it's uh it's it's difficult it's um words words do um yeah sort of make it hard to to give a direct and clear pointing to everyone but um but yeah but the like bob was saying before out of all the pointings there's there's usually one that will resonate with uh with someone um and and bring them back to to that space that they're looking for so just yeah just keep at it that's uh um keep that fire in in your apparent belly and the determination there and yeah i think that's um that's the biggest thing your your unrelenting desire for uh for that freedom yeah yeah thank you thank you yeah you can't stop it and the great thing about what what you just said you know like the words the words how how the words are confusing the ideas what is and what is in meditation who is the meditator very often when that heart The other belly is full of that fire that comes from beyond the mind So it isn't the mind that sits and meditate might only takes credit for it the desire to to come back to the source to to find the To resonate with the heart Comes from beyond the mind that is the pure consciousness and the mind says I do it I practice I'm sitting man.

I have to keep sitting I have to do it more and That's how it unfolds do and that nothing wrong with that the mind creates discipline the mind Okay, I'll see it three times a day blah. What's wrong with us. That's again. How the life unfolds it is really just Finding the place in which there is nothing wrong anymore like he said that I was saying he described natural state as the state where? Nothing is wrong Like Tanya was saying okay, so the story comes up resistance comes up Yes That's what comes up that's what is who is there to object it nothing wrong Oh meditation comes up yep that's what comes up and being resonating resting in that state in which everything is allowed to be as it is unfold as it is being at peace and being relaxed and being a space holding space for whatever unfold without any agenda without trying to fix it alter change it modify correct it that's the true nature my true nature is the space like awareness if the space is moved to sit the body upright and then express as the taking credit entity I did it I did it I meditate that's beautiful what a play it's just yeah there is a possibility to see the whole play and see there is nothing wrong and nothing right absolutely called that's it nothing right nothing wrong you saw God that says nothing wrong but you are right you missed out on the other part of the quote yes it is as it is as Bob says unaltered unmodified uncorrected as is not right not wrong yeah and we have our Tanya says beautiful cat thank you so much and there is no more quote no more comments from online I will try to read all of your comments because we're going to go over some of your comments the one that is that you point out that is clear and the other is is clear and I think it's quite simple and it's not a bad thing you're right I think it's a very important point I think it's interesting that we see the light of Chantaburi on the challenges of being a regular practitioner because it's it's an opportunity that I have the opportunity to share if I know that there are right or wrong with me I don't want to you this is it, this is what it is, you know.

I can't get it. No one can hold it, you know. You start to see these, you know, unbendable truths that this is just the way it is and all that guilt, all that doing and all the other things that the thinking part of it just drops away, I think, pretty naturally after a certain point. Yeah, so, yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Beautiful. I just want to say something really quickly. Yeah. Just like what Peter said at the beginning, I just feel such gratitude and appreciation for all the work you've done, Bob, for all of us. I know you're not the doer, but just the steps you've taken to have me find my own, I just love you for that.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Dan. Thank you. Somebody had to show me also. Somebody had to show me. I'll show you too. Yeah. Yeah, but you carry that light relentlessly for a major part of your life and you're always here, always present, always available. I don't know, I'm getting nudged every time. Aww. Aww. Poor you. Poor you. I'm serious. You had me see that same capacity within you, so thank you. Oh. Mm. Mm. Yeah, you know, it's true. Yeah, and thank you, everyone. You got one more quick one? Oh, yeah, please. Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Alan. Thank you, too. Yes, of course, thanks.

Thank you, everyone. Yeah, I know how easy it is, but I still thank you, everyone, for loving that beautiful man with me. So, yeah, he's loved the way he deserves it. I know it's easy. It's something that's inevitable, but still, I do feel a lot of gratitude and appreciation. And probably, probably a lot that wouldn't believe that, too, so, you know, take the other part of you. Love you, Bob. We do. We do.