Being the Sky for clouds to pass through... Sailor Bob's nonduality inquiry. 5 Feb 2023

Well, you know what we talk about here, what they call non-duality in the Hindu tradition, Advaita. Advaita means non-duality, not two, one without a second. There's only one essence, one intelligence energy, one being, functioning, patterning, forming, expressing as everything. And you are that already. There's no path to go on. I think we're on a spiritual path, trying to become something which we haven't recognised that we already are. They call it in Hinduism, Sat-Chit-Ananda, Nama-Rubha. Sat-Chit-Ananda. Sat is existence. Chit is consciousness. Ananda is loving to me, or the bliss of being. And Nama-Rubha, body-mind, are the names and forms we put on it. They say Nama-Rubha, body-mind, is Maya, illusion.

And it's all the one essence. And it's not only in Hinduism it's expressed, but most of the other traditions express it too. Hebrews say, Hear our Israel, the Lord thy God is one God. There is nothing other. The Muslims say there is no God but God. Allah is his name. Isaiah says, Be still and know that I am his God. So they're all pointing it out. But we've taken on the idea when we learnt words that we are these separate entities. We are these persons or individuals. And we think that this God is a higher or greater presence or being than what we are. So we've got to try and become that, recognise it.

And to look into that even. In Buddhism they call it a cognising emptiness. Not that we cognise the emptiness. But it's the emptiness that's doing the cognising or knowing. And they make the statement that emptiness is form. The Buddha said emptiness is form. And he turned it round the other way and said the forms can be nothing other than emptiness. you and I and everything else in this manifestation are forms shapes and forms patterns shapes and forms and the great mantra is I am that and if I am that realize that you already recognize and know that because you say that's the chair I'm sitting in that's the room the chairs in that's the space in the room that's the tree that's the flower everything is that the terms or labels we put on them are all that and that is the one essence appearing patterning shaping forming and expressing as everything and that what needs to be recognized that I am that I think it was Moses on the mountain and looking after the Jewish people and the Jewish people were playing up a bit had no rules to go by and fighting with one other and unhappy and Moses pondered on this and the tablet's came to him that 10 command and and he thought well I tell people about this I can live in a more orderly fashion he said, got these tablets, whether it took 10 commandments.

And he says, I'll tell them about this. But he says, they're not going to listen to me. What can I say? I'll have to tell them that they came from somewhere. Who shall I say sent me? And the inner voice, the intuitive voice, said, tell them I am sent you. I am. And he realized, I am that I am. That I am, or the sense of presence, is what I really am. Not the body, the person, or the mind, but the sense of presence. And each one of us knows I am. Instead of staying with the I am, we put the label on it. I am Bob, or I am Bill, or I am Jane, or whatever the label was.

I've got whatever the name's been given me. And so this sense of separation has come upon me. And the belief in the separation. And that's the cause of all our problems. For it's only this belief in I or me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be fearful, anxious, full of self-pity, resentful. So me is the cause of all my psychological problems. But what is the cause? What is this I or me? We take it to believe it's this pattern, shape, and form. This person. This body, mind. Where does that word person come from? It comes from persona. The ancient Latin, persona, the mask.

Meaning we've got a conceptual image of what we believe ourselves to be. And look at it. See. When we say, I am Bob, or I am Jane, you've got this mental image about yourself. And this mental image is based on past events, conditions, and experiences. It's not what is right now. And have a look at it. And if you ask yourself, what's wrong with right now, if I don't think about it? Without a thought of what you can say about yourself. You can't say it's good. You can't say it's bad. You can't say it's bad. You can't say it's good. You can't say it's bad.

Pleasant, painful, happy, sad, good or bad. Anything at all about it. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. Now you need to question that. Am I this body? Am I this mind? Am I this person? And innately, you know you're not the body. Because you're saying my body. My mind. Don't you say my coat, my car, my house. Are you the coat? Are you the car? Are you the house? You know you're not the car, the coat over there. So maybe you're not the body either. When you question it, look at it. What's this body made up of? You're really a body made up of elements.

Air, earth, fire, water, space. See if you can separate yourself from those elements. Take the air out of your body. See how long you can last. Take the water. Your body is 60% water. Get off the earth if you can. Stop breathing. Stop heart beating. Get out of space. When you investigate, you see you can't. Separate yourself from those elements. And all those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles in a pure energy. So this body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of intelligence energy. The way it patterns and expresses implies it's suffused with intelligence. And knowing that you are. But the body doesn't stand up to that investigation when you investigate it.

What about this thing called mind? Can you show me your mind? And rightly again, you say my mind. Just to say my car and my house. What is mind? When you look into it, mind is nothing but thought. And if you were a thought, you'd say, oh, my mind. If you were a thought, which particular thought would you be? Well, you'd be that I am thought, wouldn't you? And if you were that I am thought, you'd be frightened of losing it. Yet you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. Gladly give it away. So you are not the thought. So if you're not the body or not the mind, what must you be?

Well, as they said, it translates as a sat-shitter-nander. Sat is existence. Are you existing right now? Of course you are. Consciousness. Are you conscious right now? Yes, you're conscious. Are you unaware? No, you're not unaware, so you must be aware. You're happy to be when you don't want to be dead right now, do you? So you are already that. Existence, consciousness, loving to be, or being, knowing, and loving to be. So recognize that and realize you didn't have any thoughts till you were about two, two and a half years of age. You weren't born with any thoughts. That's why you can't remember your birth. You say, I was born, but you can't remember your birth.

That thought, I am, didn't come on till you were about two, two and a half. You're not aware. You're not conscious. You're aware. You're about two, two and a half. Or around about that age when the capacity of reasoning developed. And you learnt words. And you went to school, and learnt more words. But realize that the word is not the thing. Take the word water. Is the word water, water? Can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word? Can you wash in it? Or drown in it? You can't. Can you cook with the word fire? No. Eat yourself or burn yourself with the word fire?

What's this word I or me? It's just a thought or a word. What's a thought? Isn't it a sound, a word? All thoughts are sounds, words, vibrations, energy. So it was all energy. And this body broken down into the elements, all those elements were broken down into subatomic particles. So the body is nothing but energy. And doesn't Einstein tell you that it's all, everything can be broken down into pure energy. That is what you are and everything else. The one essence, patterning, shaping, forming. Our experiences, expressing as everything. But we've got the sense of separation we believed in and taken it to be real. And that's what causes our psychological suffering.

Because only me can be fearful. Only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be unhappy or depressed, jealous or envious. Me is the cause of all that psychological suffering. And the effects are the anxiety, the fear, the depression together. And that's cause and effect. That's what they call karma. Cause and effect. What happens if I investigate the cause, me, and see it's just a pattern, a thought, an idea. And if I ask myself the question, can there be an effect? If I'm not relating to a cause? Well if you're not relating to a cause, how can there be any effect? And the cause is the believed in me.

The separate entity, the individual. When it's investigated, we see that the false cannot stand up to investigation. And the call is, know the truth, cat. And the truth will save you. And the truth will set you free. And this is what Christ told you. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't, he was talking about that sense of presence which translates to thought I am. That's the way. That's the truth. That's the life. And you are that life, or pure being, that awareness of being that's with you right now. that's with you right now.

That's what needs to be recognised. And that's what needs to be stabilised or established in. That sense of presence. The being, knowing, loving to be. And it's just a matter of a little bit of investigation, little bit of deliberation, and a little bit of focusing on it and looking into it, and seeing for yourself. You know that you are. And that knowingness expresses as the primary thought, I am. But that I am, the thought, is not it. But the knowing, being, and loving to be is, not personal, the absolute. They call it in the scriptures, absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing whatsoever.

It wouldn't be absolute if you gave anything to it. And what can you take away from the absolute? Nothing. It wouldn't be absolute. Or the Buddhists call it the great perfection. Perfection is the same as the absolute. You can't add anything to the perfecting. You can't take anything away from the perfect. And they give it to you there in one sentence. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Nobody is unaware right now. Test it out. See for yourself. Am I unaware? You must realize, no. I'm aware. I'm knowing that I am. So be what you are. Not we've taken ourselves to be. We've taken on this belief we're a separate entity, an individual, and focusing from that.

And most of the manifestation, or the human manifestation is taking on that belief. And down through the universe, we're going to be aware. Now we've come to this age, and everybody's coming to the world where they learnt words as that believed in entity. But there's also been a few that have resonated with it, recognized it, and passed it on to others. And those others have recognized it and realized it, and continue to pass it on. And in the old days, there were very few could recognise it because they didn't have the means of communication. There might be only one or two in a village that know it and pass it on and not everybody would want to hear it.

Just the same as not everybody today wants to hear it. We've all touched belief that we are these persons, these human beings and taken a belief we are this human being and we get locked into this conceptualisation and we're creating all sorts of problems for ourselves. But in a recognition that I am already that, there can come the freedom, peace and joy of the true knowing that everyone in this room can say I am. But you might put the conceptual labels on it at this time but there's a few here that have recognised and seen through it. Others who have had taste of it and continue to investigate because that's another thing they tell you.

The false cannot stand up to investigation and saying is know the truth and the truth will set you free. Now if the truth is investigating the false, then the truth is investigating the false. And seeing and you'll soon see it if you investigate it. So you've recognised already so many things that turned out to be not as they appear to be. People thought this earth was flat at one stage. When you looked out where the sea and the sky meet it looked as though the sun disappeared and dropped into the sea over the horizon. But nobody could believe it in its hey because they've investigated it.

And you go down to the ocean and I ask you to get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You'd say don't be ridiculous because you know the water's not blue. But it still appears to be blue. The sky's not blue, the water's not blue. Space has got no centre to it. No space we can say it begins. No boundaries to it we can say it ends. But you can't postulate or think of anything that would be outside of space. What would it be in? It'd have to be space. Now the space around you that you're sitting in, you can't see it.

If it wasn't for the things that appear in it you wouldn't know it was there. It's got no boundary on it, no beginning or end. So space is no thing and there's nothing you can postulate or think about. That could be outside of space. What would it be in? It would have to be in space. Space is no thing. Can some thing come from no thing? It can't. So you and I and everything else are really no thing, appearing in space, or seemingly so. We call it space-like awareness. This, they call this manifestation too, a phenomenal manifestation. Look in your dictionary, what's the definition of phenomena?

That which appears to be. So this manifestation is appearance only. It's only appearing to be so. And they tell you this, Shakespeare told you there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And we think that it is so. You can't say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, without a thought. And what's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me what your next thought's going to be. But you say, oh, I don't know. I don't know. I think. As soon as you say, oh, I think, what have you done? You've formed a subject, a thinker. A thinker that's thinking this thought, whatever the thought might be.

And the thought that comes up becomes the object. So the thought I think is the subject, and the thought itself becomes the object. So thinking has been divided into subject, object. But ask the question, can there be a thinker without thinking, a subject? Can there be a subject without thinking? And can there be the thought or object without thinking? So subject, object are concepts, thoughts. What's the actual? The actual is the functioning, the thinking. And Shakespeare tells you that nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And you can't tell me what your next thought is. A thought will come up. And the saga data tells you that nothing can trust you.

Nothing can trouble you, except in your own imagination. Break that word imagination down to image in, or imagine. And realize that's what we quit doing. We're creating mental images. Take them to be real. The trees are mental images, conceptual images. The objects in the field are all images, all mental images. But something, cannot come from nothing. So they're all fictitious, not real. The saga data tells you also. Realize you are dreaming a dream you call the world. And he said stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream, and not the other. He says love all of it, or none of it.

And the real is, is that you love all of it, or none of it. And the rest will be done for you. By the same life essence that brought you into existence. That's breathing you right now. Breathing your heart. Growing your hair and your fingernails. Digesting your food. Making the thoughts come up to happen. It's doing everything. And you are already that life, that essence. Taking on the concept or belief. That we are these human beings. And that's the dream we dream. You go to sleep at night. And you dream a dream. A dream comes up. In that dream you can be in the hills, in the mountains.

On a boat. In the air. Anywhere at all. All sorts of things can be happening. Coming and going, disappearing. You wake up in the morning. What happens to the dream? It disappears. And all those things that seemed very real, they disappear also. But what you don't realise is you wake up to this dream. This is the waking dream. Because this dream continues every morning. From where you left off the night before. And it continues in the hills, the mountains, the rivers. And everything is still there. It hasn't disappeared. Because in that dream you dreamed last night. When you wake up in the morning. You realise your body hadn't moved off the bed.

And no words are coming out of your mouth. Nothing had really happened. But this dream is continuing on. And continues to go on. So in recognising it and registering that. And knowing the truth. And the scriptural saying is know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from this belief. That you are this person. You are this body-mind. You are this separate entity. What's the definition of belief? We believe this. And believe that. And believe all sorts of other things. When you question your beliefs. When you look at the definition of belief. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance.

Of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Without positive knowledge or proof. Put your beliefs to that test. And if they're not true. They won't stand up to that investigation. Like you recognise the earth is not flat. The water is not blue. Santa Claus is not real. And lots of other things you've come to believe. And taken and investigated and looked into. And our scriptural saying is know the truth. Don't believe anymore. But recognise and know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What do you need to be free from? Free from this concept of belief. Now it's up to each and every one of you.

If what we say here resonates. Something innately resonates. And you know or recognise. There's something about this. That I jolt with or recognise. And that means you've already had a taste of it. When you resonate. And looking into it and investigating. It doesn't take long. To recognise. And see and know the truth. And break the old beliefs. The old habits. And establish yourself. In the Sat Chit Ananda. The being. Knowing. Loving to be. And as Jerome Das called you years ago. He said. Be what you are. Don't believe what you're not. And that's the problem. We're believing what we're not. But know the truth. Believe what you are.

And the truth will set you free. That's what we point out. And we know. That there's quite a few of you here who already recognise this. And Egan might say it a different way to what I say it. And you might understand them better. And some of you might be just launching into it. And have questions. Don't hesitate to ask the question. Because it's only you that can do it. Nobody, no matter what you believe. Can do it for you. Nobody can tell you what you already are. Because there is nobody other than what you are. You are that. And don't forget it. No cat can take over and add a bit more to it.

And then still get asked for questions. Or your version of it. But settle into it. I'll just say. Egan, you're welcome. Especially for the first time with us. And we have 28 people online who are with us. And they sent the welcome and loving good morning messages to us and all of you. And we have one question from a friend. I don't know. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing it. She says, hello from . My first time. I have read both books. Loved it. I'm still very addicted to my victim stories. So many labels. Autism, trauma, abuse, disability, anxiety, et cetera. So much pain to the labels.

But not yet able to drop them. I understand everything in theory. Decades of reading, seeking, studying. Head full of knowledge. But lacking lived experience. If that makes sense. Would you like to answer that? What was it again? I'll read it. Maybe you should put your hearing aid. Yeah. No, we need to hear it again, Bob. So don't you worry. Yes. Where are we going to? It was a long, long time. Yes. It was basically a statement of persistent suffering. You know, she's still in pain. She's still suffering. She knows all the consequences. She's still suffering. She's still in pain. She's still in pain. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well Heriberion keeps the concept. There are still the disability answers, CPTSD, abuse, all of that darkness inside. And obviously the more we dig into to the darkness the more the darkness will come up. And more we look into that heavy because I don't know, have you ever met anyone who didn't suffer? Who hasn't been abused in one way or another. Physically or emotionally. Who has everything perfect about them. Mmhmm. themselves I mean I've seen people who were models who were absolutely stunning and they were anorexic they hated their bodies and I've seen people who have been or have not been physically or emotionally abused but in their subjective experience they suffered as badly so yes when we focus on our pain when we focus on our suffering and when we dig deeper well because yesterday we've been on the event which we only show up once a year apart from kovat this is old-timers I anything where there was over 130 people and those people were really very very clear the self-centeredness self-will and self-obsession that is what we suffer of alcohol is a solution kind of it is not sustainable all drugs or or shopping what you say you actually addicted you still very addicted to your victimhood story so you are very aware you are very conscious of that habit of attention to go and engage with that self-obsession and that is a wonderful wonderful start to be clear that this attention constantly focus on me poor me i'm sick i'm autistic i'm abused i'm this i'm this i'm this anyone who would want to look into this they will find the confirmation bias psychological phenomenon will always make you find people who suffer as much or more the question is now you know you see that attention habit moving to the victim story so that is a wonderful beginning see how often it goes there see how deeply it engages with it because when you monitor it from the observer perspective you're learning about that habit of the of the self-obsession because yes absolutely it is very very sad to have that past and that past that conditioning does modify your responses to the world it does put you in the place where you predominantly just like every other animal who is abused will react in in anxious way and it is not something that we brush over and say ah that's we don't we don't think about it now we acknowledge that but now see to which account we are going to respond to which account we are going to respond to which account we are going extent it actually modified your experience of the world if you learn about that part and you learn about that filter which modified the way you see the world the place from which which you learning about it is beyond the pattern is from the pure open field of consciousness when you look at that habit and That's a place Operation that's a place from beyond suffering when you are curious about how often does it come?

Oh, yeah I'm not good enough, you know because I'm sick because I'm disabled because I'm autistic because I've been abused How often does it come how strong does it come be curious have that childlike curiosity about it? and with that attitude it becomes impersonal and When it is impersonal it loses the power To hurt you to sting When you look at that pattern the same way you look at the pattern of being attracted to certain foods or smells Oh, yeah, this body is following And now this body this attention is following this is it's an adventure it suddenly becomes Fascinating and again. Thank you for coming up and being honest and thank you for putting it out there And because that takes guts that takes vulnerability and that takes maturity so really Thank you.

It is it is beautiful to to have that level of honesty to admit That there is an addiction of the victim story and you are not it's just the attention You are not you free you innocent you total you you pure you may not know it But that's the fact as Bob says you are already ducks you wanna Say something. Oh, I'm a bit dizzy You didn't sleep very well. We had this event last night. We came back very very late Can I help you in any way you want you want to water? Keep yakking Yes, I would like others to I would like others to yak as well.

Oh, please Kavisha, can you can you give? I Just was reminded of Byron Katie who says what if we are not our story, that's all simple what? That's the question to ask which is really profound I Better say something with the mic. Hey, hey Yeah, well we're getting sucked into your own narrative in a way and so that's not being dismissal at all because it seems like it's really real but it is part of the illusion when you get attached to a narrative as though it's like a belief thing and that that becomes the problem this attachment to a narrative and uh the whole point of the uh you know these meetings and and uh non-duality is to start creating space from a narrative you know narrative of self any kind of narrative and um that loosening of attachment gives the sensation of spaciousness where um you you've actually gone to the source of problems when you when you're experiencing that spaciousness you you um start experiencing non-duality you know where there's only one there's only consciousness and uh the the reality and the grip of the narrative starts to drop away so that's a beautiful thing nice to share that you come here thank you cheers thanks might be blanking a bit here but um yeah i was just sitting with like how the how the negative thoughts come in and sort of you know bring you down and then i was just noticing um if they were let go then um how i would just relax my body would relax and i would come out of this tense upright torso moving away mode and um suddenly there was an expansion that made me feel like i all the resources i needed to survive were there and then i started to notice that when i was in that alert tense mode that was my addiction moment so whenever i was if i had a thought when i went to write it down i was in tense mode i was everything was blocked off while i was doing my tasks so every kind of work activity every task um that i felt i have to do well in order to not be kicked out of the tribe and to survive um were yeah as i said i noticed all the things that were the work had been okay and so um i really watched my body as i sort of struggled in generating this experience and it ahead of me assignments um that i like could make big words in the back of my head like wow is this this is a way of um letting me know how i it has been or i want to find out or you know what's the state of your mind that since is my own work angina some of the things that were that were and i would not to say something it was kind of минут study or management things that were in tense mode and which things were in release mode.

So tense mode was saving the page on the computer constantly. Tense mode was being fearful to come back to the task in case I couldn't remember it or I wouldn't know the procedure so I would be kicked out of the tribe. Tense mode was working out the training timetables which are easy and fun but it was addiction mode as well. So I just noticed all those times my body was just in a total tension and I was calling it distraction. So it was distraction from just being there, receiving whatever was there. That's beautiful. That's really practical. Jaina? Yes, my question really is related to something one of these ladies said about the Byron Katie statement.

What if I'm not my story? Yes. What if I'm not my story? How does one detach from that story? Attach or detatch? Sorry, detach, yes. How does one detach from that story? Know you're not the story. How does one know you're not the story? Feel. Feel. Try feeling. Ask the question and feel. You don't think about it. My experience is not to think there's a right answer or a wrong answer. Yes. Ask the question and then feel. What's the sensation in the body? What if you are not your story? And let go. And just feel, what if I'm not my story? What's there? In Bob's words you could say, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it?

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Well, who is it happening to? Well, who is it happening to? Yeah. And then so the answer is me. The answer is me. And that me that you think you are or that me that has a story is only a thought. And that thought appears upon that presence that you are. And so that thought which starts, as Bob said, with the cause, which is the me, have a look at that. Where is that me? See if you can find it. Yeah. You know, breathe. See if you can find the point where it starts and the point where it ends. Yeah. And if you really investigate, you'll see it isn't there.

Yeah, but it's not really a conscious acknowledgement. It's just a sensation that you're so habituated with. Hear the mic, Gina? Yeah, Gina. One is so habituated, this one is so habituated to who I believe I am because of my history and all the dramas and stuff. Yeah. And all the stuff that's all stuck in the background somewhere. And that's like almost like living its independent existence at a subconscious level, but I sense it every day. And so it sort of almost unconsciously reminds me of who I believe I am. Yeah. And what I'm saying is, what I'm asking is, how does one detach from that?

Recognition. Coming forward all the time and reminding me of who I am. Yeah. And then you start to practice what that is. Recognition. Question your belief. Question your beliefs. Yeah. Can you talk about what a belief is, Bob? An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. It means you haven't looked at it. Yeah, but what if you've got facts backing up the, you know, the... Only when you think about it. Facts are not there when you are in your heart. Facts are only there when you are in your head. Yeah. When you're obsessing, thinking. See, when you're thinking, you're obsessing. Yeah. You're obsessing.

Yeah. You're obsessing. You're obsessing. You're obsessing. You're obsessing. Yeah. You're obsessing. You're obsessing. Yeah. And you're in that mode of, Oh, this is all about me. The whole world is about me. I'm the center of the universe. This is important. This is personal. Mm-hmm . When you actually land in that place of being, in your heart. Mm-hmm . And you look around, and you hear things, and you see things, and you touch things, you feel your body, you're existing fully. Yeah. Not just rolling in your head, but you are fully embodying that moment. You are engaging with seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. instead of going to the past story in this moment you are awake when you are fully present you are awake and this is the moment of recognition because right now you know oh this is the reality I'm awake now and this is only happening yeah it's not even that there's not even a talk there's just a pervading sense of that identity hovering around somewhere in the back of my mind if you like exactly you're aware of it if you're aware of it it's an object okay yes it's beautiful you said so how do I you keep being aware of it you keep being aware of it you keep being aware of it you keep being aware of it oh okay well that was it yes the advice you gave to the person who's online yes stay aware of it that's it because then you perceive it as an object somewhere in the background as you say so identity is hovering somewhere around in the background this is not who I am in the heart it is some sort of a mask or the costume or some sort of that's what I'm saying yeah beautiful right and also just if I could just say that that hovering that hovering thing but you imagine yourself to be in the background can only live in the memory yeah so it can only live in the memory it can't live right now so the pointer that is the pointer of beyond all pointers is what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it yeah you know and if there's thinking going on it can only work in the pairs of opposites pleasure pain happy sad me you yesterday tomorrow that's the nature of the mind and so that chatter or narration about an alleged me it's either in the past or it's projecting into the future and you know what is it appearing on it's appearing on that presence that you are so you could say you could say the clouds in the sky they're always they're always moving you know but that presence that you are is always constant that is like the sky or that presence that you are is like like the sky and the clouds are just moving all the time so no matter what's going on in the chatter and Bob's pointing out that you're not the story and Kavisha has that sky is who you are empty sky empty sky absolutely Joseph Joseph here I yeah so before you said something with a dream there was the topic of the dream and which is what I'm thinking about and the each and then you try to make it a reality and you're absolutely right it's an imagination of thought is not a fertig and then the what is what is or is this or not but the experience and this and age and so on so what's really important is this is always that conversation what is not here and I and start to feel a little bit your reality that's the universe is the world and it gets cakeиков experience and that is like feels nice to dream of and then the the thing is what i think what i realized is that i like to really put my dreams into reality and then uh it seemed to be like a conflict of what's happening because last week i was like oh this is what the real is and everything is a stream and this is not reality and then i was like okay i can just relax into it it was last week for me the case and i could just be that's it relax and then today i was like oh but this stream is nice i would like to experience should i do something about this or not or how how what should i do with that so that of course you could say leave it as it is because should i do or shouldn't i not do yes you're not the doer but the doing happens anyway yeah if there is let's say if there is a bear chasing to eat you you won't be deciding and thinking should i run or should i not run you will realize the boat is running yes yes yes yes yes um yeah that's true that's a it's more a reaction of it but to me it was like that imagination of experience something or with someone or whatever that is it could be different topics and and then looking at that it's like well where is the fact of the the dream is nice but it's not what is yeah so that's sort of what should i do with that to be in peace is that more recognizing as what it is yeah see when you when you are watching a beautiful beautiful movie it is like watching a dream yes and you fully enjoy it correct but you're not necessarily let's say the movie is happening in a beautiful setting of the mountains or it's a love story it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be obsessing about being that character and making yourself suffer obsessing you enjoy the dream as it shows up and come back to the place where you're watching from yeah to your home to heart oh yeah i remember i had this beautiful dream some people dream about just being uh you know wealthy or handsome or happy or whatever i had this persistent dream of like collective awakening of the whole world you know the new earth when everybody's happy that's a dream that first of all is as as imaginary as everything else it involves future but it was so amazing it was so yummy that i didn't think i will ever be able to drop it and one day i discovered oh my goodness that is so beautiful and so sweet and so unnecessary because the pure perfection the life as it is is right here right now you will see when you enjoy your desires and your dreams and your visions and your dreams at night as well you will see that it's it doesn't doesn't mean that all have to come true they are lived experience already you know the consciousness of the awareness experience itself through the imagination as well you know you can imagine yourself dancing being a king on the ball dancing with the most beautiful princess and that experience has already been recorded in consciousness it doesn't have to happen in the physical reality okay so which means that experience of enjoyment can be also just a dreaming itself yes it doesn't have to be yes lived but but when when you start suffering that oh this is not what is here and when you start desiring instead of being joy experiencing like a beautiful music a beautiful movie it becomes a source of suffering oh i don't have it i'm not that i'm not there so yes the dream when it shows up you can blow the kiss you can enjoy it rather than beating yourself up that on but this is not reality yeah yeah yeah that's correct so there's two things of the dream one dream is like okay there's the narrative of saying this is what not is and that's the suffering and the other thing is oh this is a dream which could be possible yeah should i do something about it or not like this is like two parts yes yes and and you will be moved the doing will happen when when there is a possibility for the doing when there is when when you are moved when life moves you like you know life may move so you may a lot of people kind of dream or think about let's say living a legacy writing a book and all of their lives they're fantasized about it but they don't really they are not moved about it instead of thinking about it being present really living the moment fully and see if there is a movement and that movement causes action that is the way of living light happy natural life yes that point where I came like that that sort of movement and I thought I should I move or not and sort of that's yes sort of because the dream is not like absurd it's like it can be real so what I'm saying so that sort of that or should I just leave it as that I mean that's a decision it will happen I guess this comes from a different place than the head because you know overthinking you can write down and make a list of pros and cons and all that stuff that psychology will tell you that you can do in that situation just think think think think think or you may land in that place of stillness in your heart or in your gut and see if if there is a if there is an urge if there is a movement if there is wonderful you may find yourself follow and write pros and cons and plan and do all the other stuff but instead of just dissipating that energy that potential energy for movement in thinking you may see gather it and the action may arise from it and also there's thoughts you have just movements that are some result of this kind of pattern over here and they were only ever going to happen these particular thoughts these eyes there's such a thing as a decision might be another thought that may or may not happen in your pattern and it's just an unraveling of the universe here yeah yeah that's interesting that that thought or that dream or that imagination was there before and since we spoke about it it came up again so that's where I was like oh hang on yeah what about that should I just leave it or you know that's what came up just then when you actually when Bob was talking so literally literally then I was like oh what about should I just leave it or you know there was sort of that thing came up and as you say you actually use Bob's point of brilliantly Bob would probably say leave it on out of his mind and then you can just leave it and then you can just leave it and then you can just leave it and then you can leave it and then you can leave it and that means sit with that energy give it an unconditionally loving non-judgmental curious attention and that energy will not dissipate because if you take it to the head and chat about it that will just be wasting to the chatter but if there is something happening if there is something moving leave it as it is be present for it and see if the movement happens or not ah no I get it okay so basically not always walk around everywhere in the street thinking about that and not being present it's just like recognize it that is there yeah and and then be conscious of it yeah and if it comes up and it comes up or not okay yeah got it so I don't have to act straight away on something or think over again overthink especially because that's what we do I mean you know it's a practical thing simple decision to be made instead of making that decisions we come back to it and apparently 80% of our thoughts are the same thoughts that we just chewing on over and over for days and days that can be cut off radically with just being with the energy and when the thought is required when the thought processes are required they come up and they are utilized in the brilliant way when the communication is required when the planning is required even when the you know like a basic sort of a goal setting that you know that whatever when you were doing your projects you may need the timeline you may need the tools a lot of preparation may be required but that initial decision rather than vacillating should I should not should I should not want that can just sitting with the other person and just sitting with the other person and just sitting with the other person and just sitting with the other person and just sitting with the other person and just sitting with the other person energy until decision is made and follow up will spare you from that 85% of thoughts just wasted in the you know blown in the funnel yeah because that's what used to happen over thinking or thinking should I should know back and forth back and forth yes like you can actually think about something else we can just be present we can just invest that energy in being totally happy in the natural state noticing the sunshine hearing the birds hugging your boy yes okay so that's it for today cool thank you thank you I think we have a couple of comments a couple of hello messages and then we have Tanya says Oh Tracy Louise says thank you cut that was incredible I'm glad that this helpful I hope it will unfold and unravel and bring peace and Tanya says what if you are not the sensation in the body good point what you are not any passing phenomena what you are not the sensation in the body you're not your story you're not your thoughts you're not you're feeling you're not your past what if you're not anything that comes and goes like Jane was saying and Kavisha the empty sky you met not any of the clouds thank you Tanya that's a good point and Kathy the clouds are like your thoughts passing through your mind but you are like the sky that is always there you are that sense of presence watching the sky and you are like the sky that is always there you are that sense of presence watching the clouds something sometimes stormy sometimes light and fluffy but they pass you that I is always there always aware absolutely beautiful Kathy thank you okay that's okay um yeah something that they came up today for me is yeah just whenever I'm suffering I'm noticing it's yeah because I'm I'm trying to move away not facing something or resistance or or I'm trying to find something in another way or get something and the solution things seem to be to let let myself be held by that suffering or that feeling inside or sink into it kind of what you're already saying Kat then then it it's back to together so we're one again non-dual so when when you're together with it yeah there's no more yeah there's no more yeah there's no more yeah there's no more tension yeah so that's a relief but as soon as you try and grab or push it away or anything it's like no you feel you'll feel it for sure and yes well for me in my gut yeah yeah that's it yeah thanks even the residual like a fear feeling or uncomfortable feeling you might just become like a bit of heat or a bit of but you know movement yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you just become like a bit of what just a little heat or something yeah probably transits through oh this is uncomfortable as well when you talk about sort of knowing knowing the awareness then it feels for me like it's a cognitive exercise versus you know a child you can tell a child don't put your hand onto the flame because it's hot and it knows it but it doesn't know it through the experience it knows it intellectually I had an experience once, almost 20 years ago, where I got an email at work from a friend.

And at the end of the email it said, God loves you so much. And something happened where I just, for a day and a half, everything was love. The people I hated at work, I loved them. And I remember I was like, why do I love him? And even the trees, there was a sense of the tree knows me and I know the tree. And it was just a sense of intense bliss. And I was trying to, I didn't want it to go away, but it vanished over time. But that coming back to the flame and to the... Knowing the awareness is a different thing.

Absolutely. That's a great point. Because we can't know the awareness. The way we speak about awareness, it is just a concept here. Awareness is the capacity for knowing. What we know, like everything that we know with, we know with the awareness. Like we know the sensation. We know that we are. The awareness. The awareness of presence. We know that we exist. That knowing is awareness. So we are the awareness. We cannot know the awareness. We are the awareness. And yeah, I know. It feels very heavy on some level. It feels... Yes. It doesn't feel experiential. It feels there's a strong cognitive component to it. Because that's how we are trained to think.

We're trained to take everything to the head. But there is this, I love it. This is the simplest question that Bob asked. And I want to ask to people. Do you believe that you exist or you know it for certain? Do you know it intellectually? No, I don't. You know it for certain. This is it. Everything else we bring to the head because we were told. I was told I was a woman. I was told I was a girl first. I was told I was Polish. And yes, okay, now I believe I'm a woman, Polish, whatever. But the fact of existence, nobody has to tell me.

This is what we point to. But we have to use words. So it always, it's always a question of what we are. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing. And I think that's the most important thing. So it always feels like, oh yeah, okay, I'm hearing it with my head. I understand it intellectually, but it's still very, very loaded with thoughts. Because I'm thinking about it, right? And when I'm thinking about it. Initially, that's how it happens. Initially, you hear all those pointers and they feel like, oh my God, my brain is steaming.

There's too much to take in. Right. in. But all those pointers are actually bringing you back to that obviousness of existence. Do I know that I am or I believe it? Or somebody told me, yeah, I know it. But what's the big deal about it? This is the enlightenment bullshit. Where is my bliss? Where is my joy? The thing is that staying with that knowing without needing to go to the head and translate it to intellectual knowing, that's the art. But initially it's impossible because everything that's the only tool we know how to use. We were so conditioned to always look through the interpretation. Everything I see straight away comes with the label, with the name.

And everything that I see straight away comes with the meaning. Oh, this is the sofa. I know what it means, what it is made of. All the past comes with it. Everything. So to recognize that this is that overlay of concepts is happening on that basis. And that's the basic awareness of being. And coming back to that basic awareness of being and recognizing that blah, blah on top of it, it won't bring that sense of bliss straight away, but it will create that ease of the suffering. And the less of that suffering, of that tension, that resentment and that dissatisfaction, the more kind of like the relaxation and the more natural appreciation, the more disengagement with that interpreting, with seeing everything through what I know about it.

Rather than seeing the mystery, rather than just being in that state of, I have no idea. I have no idea what it is. I have no idea what I'm going to think. I have no idea what they're going to say. No idea. And the mind is uncomfortable in not knowing. Yeah. That causes anxiety. Yeah. That's why we put everything, oh yeah, I know that. I understand that. I hear that. Oh, blah, blah. And we just kind of sedate ourselves with the knowing, with the narrative. But finding peace with the mystery, with the unknown. And this thing that really the only thing everyone, everyone knows for sure is the same thing that I know and the same thing that you know for sure, the existence.

Yeah. So, no matter how many books, how many YouTube videos they've written or read, everyone, all the blah, blah is believed in conditioned bullshit. We all in the same boat. You know that you exist. Bob knows that he exists. Buddha, Jesus, everyone knows that that exists. Everything else is belief. And experience. You know, so the mind, the mind likes to attach to experience. The mind likes to have experiences. Of course. Because it can only work in those parameters, you know? And so when it's told that it's not valid anymore, it goes into a spin. It goes, hang on a minute, I'm going to figure this out.

I'm going to go here, there, here, there, here, there, here, there. I'm going to figure it all out in the mind. Well, all we can know for sure is that we're not, that we're not. Yeah. You know? What we are not. What we are not. We can know for sure that what we are not in the mind. But what's that appearing upon? You know that you are. You know for sure that you are. So, it's just watching it with amusement and everything's an opportunity to watch, you know? And it... And it's an entertaining TV show. Yeah. What's coming to mind is how can I forget?

That's wonderful. What you remember and what you forget is part of the blah, blah, blah bullshit. So, I, you know, watched a Who Do You Think You Are show last night and the woman in the beginning said, well, no, I can't be royalty. I would know about that. But actually, she up finding that well amazing things about a history including that she is directly descended from William the Conqueror you know something she remembers from her history classes so part of me love these shows where people discover things about their history but then when I was sitting here I was I was actually thought well actually it's the most important part of who we are is what I'm kind of you know that there's a there's a so-called history that you know you can go through the history but that part of us oh I don't know how to how to say this but you know I've forgotten who I am and at times I've remembered and I'm not sure what's so hard to be as hard to remember who we are we cannot know that this is this is the thing you see all the history is content of the dream and it's a beautiful super entertaining content of the dream and it's totally to be appreciated and enjoyed fully but we cannot know who we are what we are because we are that like I can't see itself the eye it can see the reflection in the mirror but that's reflection that's not the eye Tongue can't tell taste itself the fire can't can't burn itself because it is itself so imagine if you were to ever discover who or what you are where would you be looking from to discover that thing that you are obviously you would have to be looking from somewhere outside it so you're not that anymore now you're that so how you discover it you're that you have to you can't ever ever that is totally impossible to define and to distinguish what you are because you are that beautiful painting you're just absorbing it and there's no thoughts about it there's just you know you there with the painting and then 50 people have to write a description all about what that painting is yeah I mean that's just another painting on the back of somebody's written something down you know just multiple paintings really and and If we're absorbing, then we're just absorbing.

But what Jane was actually saying, she began to say, we can know what we are not. So everything that changes is within the knowing. Knowing is always there, like the sky. So that's the knowing that I am. The knowing of existence is there. And now the idea, oh, I'm the royalty. Or now the idea, oh, I'll have a sex change, I'll be another sex. Or I'll have nationality change or whatever. So within that awareness, that empty space, that nothingness, the roles come and go. Today I am, let's say, a fixer. I'm going to be fixing everything. Or tomorrow I'm going to be a seeker. Or maybe next hour I'm going to be a finder.

I'll find the truth of what I am. But the fact is, it is the unknown. So the closest we get to it, we say, I am nothing. Nisargadatta says, when I know I'm nothing, this is wisdom. Now is the knowing of being nothing. But what really is the nothing? The no-thing. The other part he says, when I know I am everything. Because everything is nothing. Everything, even physics will tell you that. It's a potentiality vibrating into forms. So when I know I'm everything, this is love. Now, everything and nothing, totality. Within that totality, that consciousness experiences itself as the fixer, the seeker, the royalty. The nobody, the everybody.

That is, you can say I am the totality. But how do you know that? That's an assumption. That's a thought. The truth is, you are a mystery. Unknowable. The only thing you can ever know is that you are. That you are. Not what you are. But that you exist. It's just a sense that we're remembering. That we do know, you know. You know that you are. And that we do, you know, I know. I've experienced it. I mean, that word know isn't like, oh, I'm not. I'm not. Right. But remember how, you know, there's a sense that I'd like to remember. That's why I love those shows.

Because I'm saying, why, how could they forget? How could this amazing thing not be passed all the way down? And then I realise that's, you know, I'm just wanting to remember. Yeah. You know, but not remember those things. It appears I'm enjoying that. Yeah. That remembering. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Deeper remembering of what I already know and have experienced. And yeah. Yeah. That is beyond words. That you can absolutely have a glimpses or you can have lasting recognition of that you are. That you are. The bliss of being. Pure bliss of being. Where the awareness rests on itself or the consciousness is delighting in existence.

It's the pure light of existence. You still don't. It's not an. object but yes there is a remembering ah non-conceptual you can't say what it is you can't put the finger on it but is there like the existence the being ah the pure perfection the joy that the bliss of the pure perfection of existence suddenly it is all clear but when you start describing it you're clouding it again you know that a lot of insights it will show itself in a way that oh suddenly I recognize everything is just one but now you know even the language says what do you mean everything one but in the heart yes absolutely that complete oneness experience of oneness and knowing is available and you can say it how could I forget yes it's kind of like a love of history but the history is the pure love yeah explaining something you know in sane sort of yeah they forget because of the bliss of finding if they haven't forgotten there would be no awakening it sounds like it there's a discussion between the relatives and the absolute can you say something you know the the basic question is when can you run this thing wow that's quite a lot of you know if you want to avoid it you need to go on a journey Nané says in the rivers of the islands and still not until they know so many, many years later dream of this do you think of always partying Some things are dried all day and there's a直接 pathrated, photo of automatically going about it without today or it is you know we are the sky that is the absolutes in which everything appears you know the the clouds passing the rain coming down and all that sort of thing which is relative you know so mostly in our conditioning we are taught to attach to the relative you know to the narratives and to the you know beliefs and the story about me and you know my desires and my whatever and we lose touch with the grounding of existence as the absolute and I was just going to say I was explaining to a young man last night who had never got into this stuff I said well you know ever since you're a little kid and you know you're out playing and you didn't really have much going on in your head and you'd see the tree and see this and you'd see that and you know it would just be one spontaneous thing after another that that presence was always there and that presence is always there you know whatever's going on in the head that presence awareness is always there always has been there will be there till the last breath is taken and it's and as Tristan said you know there's there's a sort of a watching of that resistance that happens and and the the narrative kicking in and you know blah blah blah but but then there's a you know a relaxing as Tony said you know reminds me of that saying be in the world but not of it yeah that's right that's right well I have a comment from our online community yes so this is from Julie oh yes Kathy also says move that pointer do I know I exist or do I believe it perfect it is isn't it and now Julie says the blah blah bullshit arising and passing in my presence somehow keeps the personal self in a state of distress and describing me personally and a pana dog like and if we go back we will see interesting that it's after all we look at live here have a good mind unless you really need to it happens every time yes I suppose it happens but how do I know anybody's in it and so while and ā Polly but life has late very limited facility yes exactly so you can see there's two levels to life and it is very much based on the forces of the law that midnight is not the power of for you and self in a state of distress blah blah bullshit see if you could see it as a bullshit it wouldn't touch it wouldn't harm when you see the narrative or when you hear it in a funny voice or in some foreign language when it is not important when it is not about me when it is not relevant when it's not related it doesn't matter you know when the commentary goes on oh will I make it to the red light all is changing the green light of love this this narrative doesn't cause the distress the personal relating something taking us important personal believing it that causes a distress and you don't only write personal help can't help personal self can't can't help it isn't even a personal self that wants that distress to live it is very very simple survival strategy it is a mechanism that keeps that body alive and it is a mechanism that keeps that body alive and it is the body mind is programmed to survive so if there is a distress or if there is a pain or if there is a suffering there is a desire for this to end because that is threatening for the whole system so it isn't personal self what we say there is no personal self we imagine that there is one but really isn't a persona yes and that image is not real so it is real yeah that and it's a healthy program Julie it's a healthy program that you want the suffering and the blah blah and the distress to end that's that's actually quite sane but recognize it for what it is it is a program there is no ego or self warning it is it's a simple program and it's a good good realization to that you see that you know the bullshit passing through the cloud causes the body to respond it is because it is believed when you see it as as bullshit passing without believing it fully even without believing it half that will help and anyone would like to say something before we wrap it up or please we have a couple of minutes darling would you like to wrap it up oh yeah that's my little upset up yeah that's good yeah yes so thank you everyone thank you thank you thank you