Transcendence of suffering. Sailor Bob and nonduality group investigation. 11 Dec 2022

The names, and I'll cut. We're saying the names now. Oh, sorry. Ben. G'day, Cliff. G'day, Joe. Adrian. Andy. Lockie. Ross. Morning to everyone. And I guess you all know what it's all about. It's the same old, same old. What they call longevity. Some of the scriptures, especially the Hindu scriptures, and a few others say it's non-duality. It was one without a second. Not two. Meaning that there's only the one essence that's patting, patting, shaping and forming, expressing as everything. And you need each one of us here and all the, most of the human condition, except those that looked into it and understood it, believed it, and believe that there are the many.

Each and I, everyone is a separate entity, a person. But when it's investigated, they say what they're saying is true. And you see the problem. They're told about the people that have understood it and recognised it and realised the naturalness and effortlessness of it all. People think, well, I've got to become, I've got to become like that. And trying to become something and not recognise that basic statement that everything is that, only the one essence. Trying to become something when you are already that is impossibility. It's non-dual. Not two. One without a second. There are different ways of describing it again. Call it Sat-Shitananda Nama-Rupa.

There are the Hindu's description of it. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness. Ananda is loving to be. And are you existing right now? There's nobody who's not existing here. You're knowing that. Nobody who doesn't know that they're existing. Ananda. And you love to be. You don't want to be dead. So you're loving to be. So you already are that. But the pattern, shape and form through which we're expressing through, is not the same. Nama-Rupa. Body-mind. They'll tell you it's illusion. It's only seemingly so. But we take it to be real. Because it's seemingly real. And they tell you that also when they say it's a phenomenal manifestation.

And the definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be. If it's one without a second, it's... The one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as that. It's only that. Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa. Being, knowing and loving to be. We take those three things, Sat Chit Ananda and being, knowing and loving to be, or awareness of being is this. Different ways we put it. Seemingly split up. But take the being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who is not knowing that you are being right now, you realise I'm being. Being and knowing are not separate. There's a knowingness of that being. And the loving to be.

There's a knowingness of that. You love to be. You don't want to be dead. So you are that beingness. And knowing that that beingness. And loving to be already. And that's what we call the loving to be. And that's what we don't recognise and don't believe. And don't, because we've taken on this believed in entity. And functioned from that point of view for so long. And with that believed in entity, everything can happen to this believed in me. The separate entity. It's only me that can be angry or fearful or unhappy. Or depression or guilty. We've divided it up. But being is knowing and knowing is being.

And being is loving. If it's loving to be. And knowing is loving to be. It's all the one. So it's not hard to see. You get the simplicity of it. That and those statements we just made. Simple. Anyone who is not being. You realise now I'm being. Anyone who is not conscious. Yes I'm conscious. Anyone who is. Anyone aware of that. No. I'm aware of being and knowing right now. So you are already that. But we've taken on this habit of I am Bob or Bill or Jane or Catherine or whatever my name might be. People have given us a name, shape or form. We take ourselves to be that.

Which is a believed in entity. Separate entity. In other terms we've got this idea there is such a thing as God. A higher power. A power greater than ourselves. That can give us all these things we haven't got. Will do these things for us. But not realising. And we pray to this believed in God. Not realising it's still that one life. Or one essence. And there is only life. And there's no body who lives a life. So when we say no body. We believe we are these bodies. We take this body to be living. But the body is not the life. It's not the livingness.

It is which that the thing which that life is expressing through. Just to say. Same. Same. Same. Same. Same. As the tree. The sap that's running through the tree is the life essence that's expressing through it. But it's not the tree itself. It's not. So what, all there is, is that awareness. Have a look at that. What could you be if it wasn't for awareness. Could you be anything at all. if you weren't aware of it. So all these things that are appearing in and on that awareness are not it. They are appearance, pattern, shapes and forms, vibrations that are appearing on. But we take this body, mind, and everything else to be separate.

Instead of being absolute, the totality, and they tell you that in the scriptures, it's absolute, it's non-dual, it's one without a second, meaning not two, not one and other than one, but just that one absolute. Or the Buddhists call it non-conceptual presence awareness, ever fresh presence awareness. That presence awareness without the concepts, my presence, my awareness, without any concepts at all, but just the presence awareness, without concepts at all, so it's non-conceptual. And what's a concept? A word, a thought, an idea, an image, things we've learned, concepts. We've learned words. Have a look at that. How many words were you born with? When you look at it, you weren't born with any words.

That's why you can't remember your birth. You can't actually remember your birth. People say they remember their birth, but how could you if you didn't have any words? How could you say anything or remember anything? You couldn't. So you didn't pick up words until you were about two, two and a half. And every word you've ever spoken has been picked up or learned. And when you look into the word and investigate the word, you'll see the word's not the thing. It's just a label we put on it. Take the word water, try and drink the word. Take the word fire, try and cook with it, burn yourself with it, heat yourself, warm yourself.

You can't. So take this word I or me. What we take that to mean, we say, well, I am this body, I am this mind. But are you the body? When you investigate it, you'll see it's my body. It's my mind. Don't you also say it's my house, my car, my coat, my hat. And are you the hat? You know you're not the hat. Are you the coat? You know you're not the coat or the car or the house. You're not those things at all. But who's claiming them? So maybe you're not the body. Who's claiming the body? Who is this my or me? Who's claiming this body?

And you realize my or me or I are just words, concepts. So when they're telling us it's non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness, it's not the word. It's not the label. If you ask yourself what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it, and just drop the thought for a while, don't, pick it up as it comes out, what can you say without the words? You can't say anything at all, but have you disappeared without the word? Has that life essence stopped functioning or experiencing or expressing through that pattern without the word? You know without the word you're still seeing, you're still hearing, you're still tasting, touching, smelling, and you're not putting those labels on.

There's seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, going on right now, which we label, recognize that the word is not the thing. The word the water is not the thing, the word fire is not the fire. The word you or I or me is not what you are. But you are, and these are words, concepts, put onto describe the indescribable, the ever fresh, the presence awareness, the pure intelligence energy that vibrates into patterns, shapes, and forms, into words, the cognizing emptiness. Emptiness that has the capacity of cognizing. Cognizing is pure, if you haven't got any words, it's pure being, pure knowing, and pure loving to be. Now it's simple.

You've always been that, and you haven't been this person. The Buddha told you that a couple of thousand years ago, when he called it the cognizing emptiness. Emptiness, which has the capacity of cognizing, or knowing. Now have a look at yourself, that body mind. Without any concepts, it's empty of any shape, form. Because you can't find a center to this pattern, or a circumference to it at all. It's just a vibrating pattern of energy. And the Buddha made the statement that form is not, emptiness is form. It's that emptiness that's vibrating, in the vibrating of energy, that vibrates into patterns, shapes, and forms. Just to say, you've got a fan on the tube, with two blades on it.

Turn the power on, it spins around. It spins around at such a speed, it's seemingly solid. Seemingly real, seemingly solid. A circle. But it's never been anything other than the single blade, propeller, spinning around. Lots of other metaphors you can use to point it out. So it's the same with this body. It's vibrating and patterning, shaping and forming, spontaneously, naturally, and effortlessly. But it's still that life essence, or energy, that's vibrating it. The body gets some, something breaks down in it, and the functioning is not going naturally and effortlessly. It gets this disease. This pattern's got, you know, a pattern. What's this body? It's got the shapes.

It vibrates and shapes. It's not me as the person that's doing it. If it was me, the person, that was doing it, and had some power, wouldn't I stop it? But I can't stop it. Just the same as I can't stop the life essence that's functioning and causing it. Not only the body, can shake, but it's breathing, heart beating, hair and fingernails growing, food being digested, cells being replaced. That's the part of the manifestation and the way it's functioning. But it can function as what we call illness, disease. A lot of that has to do with the thinking, the capacity of reasoning. We've taken ourselves to be these separate entities, these persons, these individuals, and we think we can become whole or complete.

And that's what the circle searches, trying to become something. And that's why people here are more fortunate than a lot of others. A lot of others are still stuck into the beliefs we've taken on, and the religions that those formed around those beliefs, where we've got to do this and do that, pray, meditate, do all sorts of guru-savour, worship the guru and all the rest of it, thinking we will become whole or complete. Not realising when that life formed this pattern and is expressing through that pattern, that is the complete whole life that you are. But we've learnt words, been the habit of the pattern to learn words.

And words, some words can be very useful. But because words vibrate in the opposite, they're also self-destructive. See, those words, if that life wasn't expressing through the body, could they express as opposites or anything other? They couldn't. Without the word, as in sleep, there's no word going on unless you dream. When you dream, patterns, shapes and forms come into appearance. And those patterns, shapes and forms are taken to be real. And you dream, as Nisargadatta says, you dream a dream you call the world. Because in that dream, you can be in the hills, the mountains, the river, shopping mall, anything, anywhere at all. Or even in your bedroom and asleep, where the dream takes place.

When you wake up, all those things fall away. And you wake up to this waking dream. You don't realise this is a waking dream. The dream you had was asleep, comes upon you and disappears. And with it, the content, the things you were doing, the activities you were taking place, they can be faint traces of them in the memory. But they don't last for very long. But in this dream which you wake up to, it carries on from where it left off the night before. When I went to sleep last night, everything disappeared. The dream came about, or it might not come about, but I woke up in the morning.

As soon as I woke up, where did I wake up? In the room, in the bed. And it continued on from where it left off the night before. And the mountains and the hills and the river, or whatever was there the night before, are there again in the morning. And it carries on from there. But it's constantly changing. Constantly. Transient. And it's a dream. Ever-changing. But we don't recognise that and realise it. So we carry on with whatever memories we have and concepts taken to be real. Instead of seeing everything as fresh and new. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, just as it is. Because when you wake up from the dream, you realise, you look into it, and you realise that you hadn't moved off the bed.

None of these things that were in the dream are there. They all disappear. But they all appear now to this character that's seemingly woken up. I take myself to be the dream character. And they tell us in these ancient scriptures that, you know, you can be... realise this natural state that you are, this essence. Recognise it. And that will release all the conceptual thinking. And knowing the truth, seeing the falseness of it all, it'll set you free from all these conceptual beliefs. Which brings about fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, unhappiness. All the psychological suffering, all the words that were in that. And you recognise the words not the real.

I pointed out before. So, when you're free of the concepts, what is there? Well, I tell you, without the concepts, it's thought free. Ever fresh. Presence awareness. It's this presence awareness without relating to the concepts, it's free. It's uncorrupted. Uncontaminated. Leave it as it is, unaltered. It'll change. It's transient. You mightn't realise it. It's transient. It's changing. But it's transient right now. You haven't got the same body you walked into this room with. You haven't got the same concepts. You might be recalling some of them. But they're changing. Some will be recalled and some will change. And it's all appearing in what? It's all appearing in space.

Emptiness is form. And the forms are nothing but the emptiness. So we're all pattern, shapes and forms that are appearing in this world. Because emptiness is form. There's nothing other than the emptiness. Appearing. It's seemingly real. All these forms. They're seemingly real. Form is nothing but the emptiness. And the emptiness is form. And the form is nothing but... You've got it the other way round. The emptiness is form. And the forms are nothing but the emptiness. Now realise it right there as you're sitting there right now. The form that you're sitting in and the thoughts and feelings and everything that are coming up in that form are all the emptiness.

All appearance. All seemingly self. What's appearing? Thoughts, feelings and emotions. What's a thought? Take it to be a word. A concept. An idea. But is it a word? Is the word the thing? It's not. Where is the word appearing? It's appearing in this awareness or consciousness. It's appearing... That's where this consciousness or awareness is appearing. In this seeming body. And where is the body? Seeming body appearing. It's appearing in this cognising emptiness. Call it a cognising emptiness. The Buddha said that emptiness is form. It has the capacity to cognise. But the form, as I say, are transient. They're constantly changing. There are thousands of cells dying in this body right now.

And forming other patterns, shapes and forms. The breath you breathe. The same oxygen that's going into these lungs. You breathe it out again. Expire, inspire and expire. Contracting and expanding. Who or what is doing that? Is it this human form? This body, mind, entity? Is it this human form that's thinking all these thoughts? Or is it because of the life energy, the intelligence energy in this body that's using this so-called human form as a pattern to express through? What could it express through if it wasn't for this body? So it's all a pattern to express through. And what is the life in it? What is the animation?

Isn't it the same life, the same animation that's rolling the earth around the sun that's causing the tides to come in and out? The seasons to come and go? The planets to form? Implode, explode, whatever they do? All this functioning that's going on in this manifest, conceptual earth or world that's going on? It is no thing with any substance, pattern or shape and form that's living it. Like it's no thing that's beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, digesting your food. What's it all appearing? What are you and I? Aren't we in the space that's in this room? Isn't the room itself in the space?

Any of the things that are outside the room in space? Can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of that space? Try and grasp the space if you can. I can't grasp anything. Try and look and see if you can find a centre to it. See if you can find a circumference to it. It's seeming the walls of this room might be seeming walls around space. But is the space enclosed in this room? It's diffusing those walls it's compressing through them and everything. Is the space enclosed in this body? Put it under a microscope and see. Space is no thing that hasn't got a pattern, shape or form.

Pattern, shape or form are expressions that are appearing. Vibrations which vibrate at such a speed like the propeller or the wind that spins around when something is solid. The vibrations are so fast that they're seemingly solid and substantial. Vibrations to express it. Space is no thing. No shape, no form. But it vibrates and expresses as all these pattern, shapes and forms are seen. But can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? What would it be in? You've got to realise that all this manifestation are the contents of that space. Space has got no centre, no boundaries, no circumference.

It's no thing. And all the things, if there's no thing then there's nothing that can appear outside of it. All you and I are really are things. Like the space itself. We are things appearing, seemingly. Space is no thing. Can something come from no thing? It can't. So if something cannot come from nothing all these things, like you and me what we really are is no thing. No pattern. No shape. No form. Just the absolute. Just the great perfection, which they tell us. So you are already that. Which they, some of the ancient texts that work it out will tell you. There is only that.

That is all there is. And that's a word we know very well. Because you say, that's the chair. That's the carpet. That's the tree. That's the flower. You know that everything is already that. And we put different labels on it to discriminate with the word. And we went to the one that they really point to. If that is all there is, I am that. And as I say, you know that. I am that. Because you say, that is the chair. That's the carpet. You know that everything is already that. You are no different from everything else. I tell you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word.

The word was with God. The word was God. And that's words, isn't it? God's a word. And everything in its manifestation has got labels or words on it. All things were made by Him, by the word. And isn't it the word that we put on them, given them some substance, identity, and concept and all words. There was nothing made that was made without the word. So we learnt words. And the word is not the thing. We take it to be the thing. And so now we are bound into words. Into language. And it tells you in the end it's in meaning. The way is beyond words.

Words, the way is beyond words. There is no yesterday, no tomorrow, and no today. You are prior to the word. You don't recognise and realise it. But the thing is, it can be recognised and can be realised. We're trying to, we, and a lot of us get the idea and want it. We want to become that, realised or liberated, beyond all the suffering that's going on. But we look into these religions and concepts and think we'll get it by becoming something. But to me, which is no thing, everything cannot become anything. So you'll not get it by trying to become it. Becoming is not being.

And you cannot negate your beingness right now. You are that being. So recognise that. So instead of trying to become something and conceptualising in your mind and all these thoughts, prayers, meditation and efforts and not getting anywhere. You might get a little bit of peace. A little bit. And you think you'll get it in the next meditation. It'll be a bit normal. But again, it doesn't happen. Some of the meditation is over. The word thought starts up again. But you have taste for it all through your life when there's been that seeing through everything and things have fallen into place. So it's not a matter of becoming.

Becoming implies a future time. But as you look into time, if there's a past, if you don't think about it, is there a future if you don't think about it? You'll realise that past, present and future are concepts. It gives us a concept or belief in time. The so-called past is dead and gone. The future, anticipation, imagination hasn't arrived. But try and negate the present right now. Try and stop your being. Try and tell me you are not being. So it's not a matter of becoming something. It's a matter of getting rid of the concepts. Because as we pointed out earlier, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness.

And they say non-duality is non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. Absolutely non-conceptual. Absolutely ever-fresh. Not bound by anything. So it's discarding instead of carrying around all that. We see we are this presence of awareness, but then something comes up in the thinking and we take it on board and make stories of it. Words. Instead of going beyond the word, we make the word and believe in the word. And how many stories, have we loaded ourselves down with? Creating all sorts of stories, ideas, images and concepts. And that's what weighs us down. We think we get through this thought, we'll work it out, we'll get rid of another one.

And we'll become realers. We never do, because we never can. And they tell you that. What do they tell you? Detach. Detach from the words, the concepts, the stories. Be with what is. Don't add to the story, because the story carries on and continues and becomes more story. But detach, let it go. Thought free. Ever fresh. Presence awareness. Don't forget that. Thought free. Free of concepts. Free of the thought. And it's only when you're attached to the word that you can have the concepts and the word. That we think we will become, because the stories, have a beginning, a middle and an end. And they're always becoming, have a beginning and ending.

But this presence awareness is not time bound. It's spontaneous. Ever fresh. And you are that. So away you go. Get into it. You touched on something in there that Thanks. You touched on something in there that is very important. Yeah. Can you speak up? You touched on something in there that made me think and I thought about this before is you know we are that you know, Satchit and Nanda and we wake into that dream every morning we wake up and construct the self image and the and the body. And that loving to be you know, can love that self image and the body but as we get into it, as we get older, you know things in that body start breaking down and you know, we start experiencing pain or might have a cancer develop or something like that.

And how does that, how can that loving to be reconciled with that? Because the mind, at least my mind doesn't, you probably had experience with this too, wants to reject it, stop the pain, see it as separate from the real, you know, separate from that self, you know, and go well, you know, I don't like this, I don't want it and yet it's all encompassing, it is all the one. Yeah, well that's the conceptual image that thinks you can fix the pain. The pain is, or suffering is, it's all not well with the body. And I need to do something about it to fix it.

So instead of letting, letting life, which is living of itself and, what heals you anyway? You got a cut or a broken bone or a spain, pain somewhere? Do the stitches heal it? They don't, they just bring it together and the healing takes place. The broken bone, they put it in a sling and put it together. And the body itself heals itself, takes care of it. And you, we've got science and all the rest of it now, and we use those things which are very useful, but most of all is the psychological stuff, you know. The body ages and dies, disappears. But that life itself is ever fresh, ever free, never been corrupted or contaminated, never will or never could be.

Other patterns, shapes and forms are expressed through it. It goes back into the emptiness again. Where do the corpses go, of anything? Put them in a box, put them in the ground or burn them, burn them, and over so-called conceptual time again, they all break down. As they say, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. All goes back into the dust, or the earth. It goes into the ocean eventually. The ocean is water. It gets evaporated by the sun, and livens trees and plants and seeds and everything like that, and the food you eat brings more life, out of life, appearance, life comes from life and life forms, but you won't get the same life back again.

But the potential is prolific, it can manifest in all these pattern, shapes and forms and it continues to do so. Naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. And naturally, if there's pain there and all's not well, you're going to look to do something about it. And the so-called human patterns, with the science and other things they pick up, are able to do things to a certain extent. But they're not, none of them, they can seemingly clone a pattern right now, but none of them can cause that life, but the life essence. Oh, sure, thank you. Thanks, beautiful Bob. And just leading on, what's occurred to me today is, we're really that energetic realm, we're not the physical realm, even though it includes the physical realm, if you want to call it that, but it's the misidentification with the physical as being what I am.

It's just what it expresses through, but it's the energy, it's the knowing energy that is the is-ness. Yes, break the body down, separate the particles into energy, take the mind down into vibration, into thoughts, energy. Yes. Like the earth, it's spinning around, it's vibration of energy. And the thoughts, yeah, like thoughts appear out of the energy, but it's taking them to be my thoughts is the problem. There's still vibration, thoughts, sounds, sounds are vibration. Yeah. Anyway, they're my thoughts. Great. And energy is life. Yeah, the, I think, Yes. I think it's an important distinction between, say, pain and suffering, because the suffering, as you mentioned before, is really the psychological entity that's the, you know, the, the, the, the falsity of self, and that's the suffering.

But pain and, well, and death and all of those things that, you know, happen to, say, me and the body, naturally, it's part of our, in a way, your duty of care. You know, you get the body to look after it, just like the cat is, which is beautifully looking after itself there. You know, and we have that same thing, and if we, if we get caught in suffering, then that can interfere with the natural caring of the body. Because we, we can start, you know, kind of living, in faulty patterns, you know, with what we eat and how we carry ourselves, you know, because we're caught in all sorts of false beliefs.

But if you clear that self-business, then the actual, you know, carrying the body, the vehicle is quite simple, really. It's a joy, actually, to do this, you know. The suffering really is the issue, you know. I mean, pains come. You know, you injure yourself, you know, but it's... In not attaching to that, you'll end up doing the right things to actually take care of it, you know. And that's your... You know, it's like a natural duty of care, you know. The love that's in... The love of being that will flow through you to do that in order to improve yourself. As opposed to trash it.

As opposed to trashing it, yeah. Yeah, what you're just talking about reminded me of maybe a week ago or so, 10 days, I was at, like, an exercise class and I injured my elbow and it was really sore. It was, like, throbbingly sore. And I was maybe 20 minutes from home and I had to drive home and I was maybe five minutes into the drive. I was like, this is just unbearably painful. I've still got... In my mind, I'm like, I've still got 15 minutes to get home, like, if I can ice it or whatever. And then, yeah, it just occurred to me to just notice it and step out of that story for a second.

And all of a sudden, there was this unbelievable shift where it went to the sensation was still there and I recognised it as pain, but I was no longer... like, dying to get home so I could kind of fix this pain and try to get rid of it. And, yeah, it was just like a moment... And I kind of dropped in and out of it for the rest of the drive home of just seeing this physical pain which was there. And when I was just looking at it for what it was, it just kind of became a sensation that was pain, but I wasn't trying to avoid it.

And, yeah, it's kind of exactly what you said, the suffering dropped away. But then I think the challenge that I had was when I got home and the pain subsided, I was like, oh, now I've injured myself, I'm not going to be able to do anything for two weeks. And then it became a fact that I didn't like and that I found much more difficult to step out of a fact rather than immediate pain, which is so tangible. So, yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe that's just a level a bit more difficult to try and step out of a story than I was able to for two weeks.

I think it's just a level of tangible pain or something. When you're accepted, did it change? Yeah. The suffering, exactly like Andy was saying, the suffering disappeared when I was just seeing it for what it was. But then that's somehow more challenging when it's not a pain, it's a story that I dislike, which is I'm now injured and I can't do something for weeks. And was that true, though, that you couldn't do something for weeks? Yeah. So, I mean, I still can't go back to doing it because I've torn something in my shoulder. But I guess it's just trying to treat that in the same way of, okay, this is just the reality and not being like, that's bad because X.

You could see it as a gift. Yes. In the sense that, you know, for whatever reason, you have to stop. You have to, you know, and that can be really a bonus in a different way. Yeah. So you just actually have to be more. Yes. Having people to be without the usual demands on your energy. Mm-hmm. Almost like a financial gift, you know. Kat just had a surgery. And before the surgery, they tried to kind of psych her up to expect this horrible situation. Right? It was a fact. It's going to hurt. Right? So she went with it, you know, kind of like, but it turned out to be not as bad as she was anticipating.

So I don't know, you use the word fact, you know. And that's a thought, isn't it? Right? That's a concept. But is it a fact? Like, do you know for sure? The word sensation, the fact of the sensation. Yeah. But you feel it. I mean, I'm not saying that it's a fact. I'm just saying that it's a fact. I mean, I'm not saying that it's a fact. I'm just saying that it's a fact. I'm just saying that it's a fact. I'm just saying that it's a fact. The fact of the sensation. Yeah. But you future-paste it. So you had an idea. Like, to you, it's a fact.

I am going to have this pain for two weeks. Right? That's not a fact. You know, that would be something you could investigate. Like, how do you know? Because you might not. You know, all you know is what you have right now. So if you can remember, at least when, if something like that comes up again, that you can come back to, you know, just this, this is all you know. And then any thought you put on this, that's up for debate. Just on another aspect, the energy question. I've noticed lately that whereas once the energy seemed unlimited to this being, as I'm getting older, there are definite, seemingly limits that after three hours of physical work, the feeling is, or perhaps the identification is, I need a rest.

But observing what's going on, I can see that the body just, like one of those batteries, the little battery man that sort of runs out of power, the legs don't move. They get slower and slower. I can agree with that. I think you should be applauded. You went three hours. So watching all this, it's so easy to identify with it. But then when Bob was talking in the beginning, there's a letting go sort of naturally happening all the time. And then you suddenly find that there is a being consciousness bliss that's free. It's not attached to anything. And listening to Bob, it's like I am speaking over there.

And listening to other people, it's the same consciousness, apparently over there or over there. So it's the freedom of just letting go of this apparent entity, single entity, entity. And then it's lovely. It's free and flowing and there's no problems. That's beautiful, right? Freedom, peace and joy. The interesting thing is I think the energy in the awareness or consciousness is always there even if the body's or the mind body is tired. You know? That awareness is always fresh and new anyway. Another thing I would like to relate to what you were saying, right from the beginning actually, you paused the topic with the answer included.

How do you reconcile aging of the body, getting weaker, the body getting sick, the body perhaps getting even terminal conditions and the resistance that comes up? Absolutely. I think that the most important thing is that the body is always in touch to that condition and loving to be. And the most obvious thing is that resistance is another way of the loving to be. I mean, if I didn't love to be, why would I even be bothered resisting the cancer or curing a wound? And the same happens if you look at the animal's world. I mean, the animal's world is different. Like a week ago, another one lost a dog last night.

So this is a lot of emotions to process. It is a really huge loss. And the things that they were relating as the passing was happening was how much this animal, one of them being very sick, another one being very old, loved to be, wanted to be. The sisters, when they saw them coming, they would, even though the pain was strong, they would just rise, their eyes would lift, their love would shine. The expression of love, the loving to be. Animal doesn't have the concept, oh, I don't want to be here, I want to commit suicide. And if pain is there, of course, the pain is not something that is to be celebrated.

Although, as Bob says, it is very useful. I have a friend who, has her legs broken in probably about 60 places, because down from the waist she doesn't experience any pain. So by the age of 12, she had like 60 bits and pieces of metal in the legs because she was having fun jumping down the stairs and showing all the other kids that she can do it with no pain. But the bones were shattered. How wonderful that the pain is there to tell us, don't stop my toe. Even. Even if it has been operated on, if there was a surgery, don't, you know, watch out.

But of course, the emotional pain is a different story. Like Andrew was saying, it's the, Andy, it is the narrative. It is the arguing with the reality. What is here right now is no good. I have better idea than God. God created that pain to protect me, defend me, to assist the healing. But he is an idiot. I, the me, the imagined self, I know better it shouldn't be here. Well, yeah, good luck with that. That's a really nice, easy way to make yourself miserable. But underneath all that narrative is still love to be. It's still love for the imagined self. If the self is identified with the body and it desires pleasure and peace and health for the body, that desire is, is another phase of love.

Behind every resistance. And this was that great quote from Nisargadatta that I just very, very often find and bring back again. And I'm going to just find it one more time. Why not? It's a good quote. It's easy. Yes, it is. Easy. So he asks about love, whether the love acts deliberately. And he says yes and no. And that's the best answer ever. Yes. Don't go to the concepts. Don't take sides. Yes and no and both and neither is non-conceptual. Don't go for the affirmative stance anywhere. What keeps the body together but love? Obviously, isn't it? What is desire but love of the self? Desire for no pain.

Desire for pleasure. Desire for recognition, for money. Any desire is love for the self. Whatever the self is imagined to be. What is fear but the urge to protect? We have those spiritual concepts that fear is opposite to love. And if there is fear, there is no love. Nonsense. Fear is such a wonderful way love expresses as the urge to protect. Nisargadatta says there is only love. And well, love is the movement. How obvious is that? It's one, not two. And what is knowledge but the love of truth? Even the seeking. Even identifying as the poor incomplete little me who wants to be bigger, greater.

Even that is the love for the truth which we intuit. We know it is available. And he says then, the means and forms may be wrong but the motive behind is always love. Love of the me and the mine. The me and the mine may be small or may explode and embrace the universe. But love remains from I and that. Yes, this is Bob Deer's friend and mentor. And he's got such way with words. And that's true. We're talking about oneness. We're talking about non-duality. We can call it love. We can call it fear. I heard the concepts of bringing everything back to fear. Shame is fear.

And guilt is fear. And love is fear. And yeah, well, fine. So long as there is just one. Bob says, quoting Nisargadatta again, Dream is not your problem. Love it all or hate it all. Doesn't matter. Call it love, call it fear. So long as you don't differentiate. Because there is only one. And Nisargadatta says, One side of the coin is stillness, wisdom or nothingness. The other side of the coin is movement, everything or love. We could call it other word or God, whatever. But it's just, it's the potentiality for the expression, which is Shiva or the expression itself, which is Shakti, dancing, Maya, appearance, dream.

Dream within the dream. This is a dream as we sit here and talk. But we can talk about something that is not happening here. That's the dream within the dream. The daydream. But it's still just the second side, as you were saying, emptiness is form. Form is nothing else but emptiness. It's all one. So I love, Cleve, and thank you for writing that question, you know, of resisting whatever is unpleasant, aging, surgeries, all that. How lovely, what a wonderful invitation to look deeper into the nature of oneness. And as Julia was challenging Lockie, was that true? Wasn't that, oh, Andy was saying too, wasn't that actually, Ross, an invitation to just stay put?

Not overdo it. Just, okay, that's the time when life puts me still. No more tennis playing, jumping, you know, injured there, okay. So it's just a different season, you know? It's like hibernation for the bear. And then the spring comes, and we jump and dance again. The intelligence of life is just so far, far greater than our little concepts. Concepts and limitations, absolutely. You want to say more about that? No, no, that's fine. It made me think of a story too. I think I read it. Eckhart Tolle, I think, was talking about how he had to go and visit a sick friend who was in hospital with a cancer in their leg.

And they were dying of it. And he didn't know how he was going to approach it. And the person was full of self-pity and regret about it all. And after a while talking with him, he said, can I have a look at the cancer? And he pulled the sheets back and showed him this very big swollen leg. And Eckhart Tolle said, so you think both those legs should be the same size? And the guy started laughing. And he broke out laughing too. And it sort of defused the whole situation in a way, sort of the acceptance of it all in a way. Lovely. Seeing it from another point of view.

Brilliant. Thank you. It feels like, and it's maybe a story, but I don't really care. That stuff comes up almost as an opportunity to turn away from it or transcend it. And it's just more stuff that comes up that needs to be, you know, transcended, if that makes sense. I don't necessarily like that word, but there's that stuff, the idea of separation in any guise at all comes up and it's like, okay, there's an opportunity to go deeper beneath that or turning away from it or using it as an opportunity to see through. Because it comes in all different ways from all different angles from life at times, doesn't it?

This pattern of a self in some way. Some old conditioning or some shit comes up. It's like, oh, feels shit. But it's another opportunity to, you know, that life producing that to come up to, yeah, to move through. What it came up for me is that suffering appears that is happening, but it's an expression of love as well. Beautiful. Beautiful you said. Suffering. Suffering, as it appears, is still an expression of love. Yeah, totally. A friend of mine the other day told me that he hadn't been well, that he'd been diagnosed with an incurable or bad or rare form of cancer in his blood. And he was, on some regime of drugs and treatments that he had to get a transfusion, I think it was every second week or every week.

And as long as he did this, he'd be okay. As long as he kept up that weekly treatment. And then a week or so ago, I got an email from a mutual friend. He said that he'd been asked to write a eulogy for his friend Warwick. And he said the treatment had been found to have no effect. So he had till about Christmas time. So he'd asked this guy to write a eulogy for him. He'd finished up his responsibilities at the School of Philosophy. And he was just making preparations for this event, which couldn't be avoided. And the latest thing was, I got an email from him and he said that, I've just had the first positive blood test for four months.

Wow. I feel great. Probably because I've stopped the chemo. And so I think I'll go back to the treatment on Monday. So that sort of life just continuing to express. I never know. Can I say something, Dan? No, is there any question? No, we have no questions. We have welcoming messages for a few people. But we have a very small crowd, a very little group today on the 13 people. And people who love you and John Davidson. And happy to see you. That's Auntie. And hello everyone. And hi all. And that's it. Up to us. It's made an entrance. I love how these cats just wander around here.

So they're like a blessing, these cats. They really are. There's something in that bag. I was just thinking about resistance. And resistance being suffering. And suffering is dis-ease. And maybe it's doing something. It's just to me this doing is not doing. It's letting go. But it is a helpful reminder sometimes just to put my hand here. Because there aren't a lot of thoughts seemingly that are happening. Seemingly that are happening in here. I think they're all up here. That's where I think they are. But if I come back to here, it helps to step out of or drop out of here. And come back to here.

I don't know. Beautiful. We have a comment from says that cats love Julia. The cats love you, Julia. Oh, Julia loves the kitties. And I remember another, it wasn't really a quote. But it was a little note from which I read somewhere. I heard it first from my first guru in India. About what you just mentioned. About going down from the head to the heart. He was talking about 13 years. Talking about 13 inches long tunnel that you dig out from here to here. And it is a metaphor, of course. It is a story. But isn't it beautiful? I read it later on in I Am That.

My first guru was very inspired by it. He didn't have a guru. But he was very inspired by teachings of Nisargadatta. And he elaborated and brought light into life back into them. That was one of it. The idea of really anchoring. In your conceptual view. In your map of reality. The thinking with the intellectual activity. Brain activity. The mind, so called. Which is kind of obvious, isn't it? For our culture. And for probably every culture. We kind of associate the brain, the cerebral activity with the thinking, imagining. And now, dropping down those 13 inches to the heart. Heart is completely different electrical activity. It is more of the something that we instinctively or intuitionally relate to us as seed of the soul.

As the core. Bob calls it the essence. The core of your being. Not the physical heart. Just the core. So this one, it has different intelligence. It's not different. It's all one. But it has some sort of a different kind of vibe to it. The feeling without feeling. Without labeling, conceptualizing, interpreting it. The kind of knowing more directly. Heart knows directly. Kind of without going up there. Having a story. Interpreting the story. Having a relation to a story. Imagining a positioning of that story in the relation to imagined me. And then feeling it again as anger or love or humiliation or whatever. Heart is just so much.

Much more direct. And as Julia was saying, just yeah. Stay in the heart. Put the hand on the heart. Remind yourself that there is another way of knowing reality which is more direct than going up there. And then trying to find the way back home. A round way. That's why I sometimes joke, you know, if your partner is not a seeker, don't invite them. Don't invite them to be a seeker. Don't invite them to study philosophy and look in the head. Put concepts and labels they may already be cognizing directly. And it's a harm really to someone who is not a seeker and is really happy to be.

To invite them to become a miserable, incomplete, deficient someone. Who needs to add and complete and understand and grasp and get something to awaken. That's really so unnecessary. A round trip rather than just that direct being. And we just had a sample. Like the cat's leaving that state. And we had a sample when no one had nothing to say. Wasn't it sweet? Cat demonstrate. Demonstration of happiness to be. He's quite the role model. That's another thing Eckhart Tolle did was he had a book. I think it's a children's book or whatever. But it's called Guardians of Being. And it's about cats and dogs. And so it's like they're a role model of being.

I'm thinking of a meme I think I saw on Facebook somewhere. And it shows a dog sitting next to its owner. And the owner, you can see little bubbles of thought. You know what I mean? So the bubble's got. The owner's like thinking about, oh my God. The owner's like thinking about, oh my flight for tomorrow. And then there's my job. And what I'm going to eat later. And you can see all the little bubbles going around the guy. There's like tons of them. Little thoughts happening. And there's the dog sitting next to him. And the dog has only got one bubble. Right over here.

Me, owner, sky. You know? Yep. And I just thought what a. There's such beautiful role models. You know? And this one. I mean cats I think are. They strike me as more like people. Yeah. They're like the role models of love. But dogs, what a, they're like role models of love. Even if everything is love. I do find that affection that they give without thinking. It's very, very, very sweet. He really loves that bag. He loves that bag. Got the string, huh? We're not doing that. Interesting all those thoughts and things. Like you're. be sitting there thinking away about this and that and what you want to happen and what you don't want to happen and who might be thinking this and who might be doing that or whatever.

Build all those castles in the air. But in a moment you look at it and just think, well, that's a lot of nonsense, isn't it? It's created in the mind. I think a lot of people see that quite naturally and then other people unfortunately just believe it all and live in all the fear and desire and everything else that comes from it and sort of motivates them and causes them grief and other people see it naturally as a whole lot of nonsense. A lot of that suffering was actually necessary in some way. It came from love and it caused a change of some sort or it caused a deeper looking and investigation and a deep reflection.

It's a gift in shit-colored paper. Yes. It doesn't come wrapped too well, does it? It doesn't come wrapped. Open it and... It's like it's an invitation. As Becky says, everything's perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. It resolves itself left and right. I want to share a little story about this beautiful dog, Bella, who's disappeared. We've had Bella for 17 years or so and she's gone AWOL and we suspect she's gone off to die because she's got a bit of terrier in her and apparently terriers do that. But Bella used to see me doing a lot of training and always at the end of training, this is martial arts training, I used to do a bit of a Zen walk.

So I just walked quietly in being, completely empty, just in a big circle around the yard. And then some years later, and she'd been seeing this every day, she'd watch me training. She'd just sit there, you know, why doesn't he come and play with me? And then the dog... I'm sitting here. I'm writing in my, in the lounge. And there's Bella just walking past, Zen walking. And to see a dog, like a little chihuahua type of dog, who's kind of bouncy and yippy, Zen walking past and she's, you float in on her and she's completely empty. She's just so beautiful. And when she'd do this in other people's company, they'd say, is there something wrong with your dog?

Has she got arthritis or something? No, she's Zen walking. Why not? Why not? It's very beautiful. And it used to be like her signature. And, and, you know, and they say, oh, can you get your dog to Zen? I say, no, she just does it whenever she wants to. It's just, it'll just happen. And then all of a sudden she'll do it and just walk through a room like that. Beautiful. I might try that at home. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . You were saying something, Julia, about the gift wrapped in a shit-colored paper. Yes, it's a gift wrapped in shit-colored paper. I, I, I would call it that. I see everything as an opportunity, OK? And if you don't have sometimes it's like, I don't know, if everything is all la-di-da and exactly how as you would have liked it to be, there would never have been an investigation you know i would never be here you know with you guys and have i would never have come to at least understand that there's there isn't a problem without a thought you know that that any time i catch myself last month i was upset as you know i was in the courtroom and with the lawyers and the even then i knew you know but at the same time it's kind of like i don't know you watch a movie it's a story i don't know wouldn't it be boring if it didn't have a problem in the plot you have to have a problem with plot otherwise you wouldn't you'd have to yeah so and as you know the movie was unfolding it was dramatic and it was like sucky and it was you but even then it's just so helpful to be able to go wait a minute what if I could be grateful for this right now you know in that same script writing there's no drama you can't have a story that people want to watch you can't have a story that people want to be involved in without there being a conflict or something that has to be resolved yeah and if I told you what the end of the movie was going to be would you want to go see it no yeah so I think also being open to the mystery of not knowing of allowing not knowing and letting that be as if I ever did know you know we think we know don't we you know sometimes it's nice I mean that's the illusion of security isn't it like when you think you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry about that just just press the red one he doesn't know we're still here sorry about that yeah we're almost done so it's almost the end of the meeting I just comment on that one because surprise surprise would you want to watch the movie if you know the end we know the end yeah we do we do know the end you're right you got a point yeah and also this is for me this is a new pattern I was just oh my gosh I was just so Julia so adventure-seeking junkie always wanting something new I would not go and watch the movie the same if I could watch something else I would not go to the same place if I could go somewhere else meet someone else do something else just a hunger for life hunger for experiencing I don't think I necessarily need new adventures I find what is to be I'm talking about my own experience yeah sorry and the new pattern this is just a generalization and a bit of anything I'm sorry no no you didn't okay good so general pattern was just that hunger for life and hunger for experiencing and curiosity about different experiences and on different levels different senses now as I know that there is no such thing as boredom or no experiencing as I know that experiencing can be very intense or very blunt but equally lovable even if it is not as up and down high and low I actually appreciate that we both do re-watching a movie not only which we know the end of in this movie but even if we fairly well remember the plot in the movie and just see a little nuances in the movie just the same way you know you watch something first time you see the main plot the attention is so limited in a way of noticing details of noticing different perspective in every different mood you see different things as you say Julia you could interpret every situation in many different ways as an opportunity to grow to be grateful to this to this or you may not interpret it at all and just see the miracle of unfolding and there is never really a thing called boredom is just the inattention or the subtle expectations for things to be different so the lovely adventure that the life is doesn't have to be sought for it's enough if you just you know find yourself happy in that still moment and it dances in front of you it dances around you you are the observing ing of that magnificent dance even if the dance gets dark you know as Cliff was saying yes there is no story without the drama there is no day without night there is no pleasure without pain there is no health without sickness there isn't I remember as a kid that until I got sick I didn't really understand the concept of health it is just the expression by its nature has to be dualistic otherwise there is no expression and there really is no expression is it it's just a dream just the appearance that's the beauty of it because even though nothing has ever happened that stands right before your eyes to be loved and appreciated if including what I was telling to my sister last night and this morning that's the night for her that sadness and grief for that lost life of a dog who was old but it was her best friend for so so many years and she says she can't let it go how wonderful how wonderful she can't let it go and forget it straight away how wonderful that you can feel that heartbreak which is really an outcome of a beautiful loving connection with that incredible life story of that dog going alongside you and sharing the dream why would you want to just wipe it off your memory that's of course you wouldn't you want to feel the heartbreak you want to cry you want to feel that it's just love and appreciation expressing as tears because if the love wasn't there there wouldn't be any tears and just great that they are and she got it totally because that's also her kind of constitution to be a dark emotion junkie sort of a personality so there is a beauty in appreciation and love even grief Some people love sad films, don't they?

Oh, definitely. That's what they want to go and see. Yes. Not me, but that's what I want to see. Tomorrow, we meet again on Zoom. Just might throw in that little reminder. Oh, thank you. Yes, thank you. It will remind everyone, there's not that many people with us today, that we have Zoom meetings three times a week, Sunday night or Sunday afternoon for America, Monday morning for Australia tomorrow, and every Tuesday and Thursday, morning for Europe and UK, and evening for Australia. So you're welcome to tune in, join, and pop up an email if you would like to schedule one-on-one session and connect. Thank you.

Thanks, Paul. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Paul. Oh, and Friday night, if you all are not busy, I'm going to park.