Stuck in a heavy feeling? Sailor Bob and the nonduality group discussions. 6 Nov 2022

James, Tristan, Lee, Joe, Marty, Adrian, Tim, Michael, Loppie, Bob, Roger, Shanti, Nick, Richard, Dean, Josh, and Bob. Oh, he's gone away. Hi everyone. I'm off the same old, same old. I can't teach you anything, and I can't tell you anything. I understand that right from the jump. Nobody can teach you anything, and nobody can really tell you anything. And you recognise what we're talking about. This is what we're talking about, what they call in Hinduism, Advaita. Advaita translated means non-duality. Well, not two, one without a second. Talking about the one essence that patterns, shapes, forms, expresses and experiences everything. Just that one. You recognise that and see that.

You must realise that there's nobody that can teach you anything or tell you anything. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. That body, mind, entity you might believe yourself to be, that's not what I'm... I'm not speaking to that at all. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. Each and every one of us says I am. And we all say that. We all take ourselves to be the personal. But that I am is not the personal. It's the sense of presence. Expressive translates, expresses to everyone as that thought. So just to this, I am-ness and nothing else.

So it's based on what they call in Hinduism, one without a second, not two. Non-duality. Because duality implies there is other than one. We say there is nothing other than that one. Everything is that one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. And they tell you that in the scriptures too. And they say the great mantra is I am that. Now innately you know that everything is that. All right. That's it. You're ready. Because you're saying that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the room I'm in. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the tree. That's the flower. All the different shapes and forms are that.

Which we discriminate with the word. Putting the label. And you need to recognise that the word is not the thing. How many words were you born with? And you realise you weren't born with any words. And you didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half or somewhere around that age. When the capacity of reasoning developed here. Prior to that you had no words. And what are words? Words are just concepts, ideas, images. And when you look into it you'll see the word is not the thing. Words are just concepts, ideas, images. And when you look into it you'll see the word is not the thing.

Are you the word? Say I am so and so. But how many words were you born with? And you realise you were not born with any words. You didn't learn words until you were about two, two and a half, somewhere around that age. When the capacity of reasoning developed. And then we picked up words. And that capacity of reasoning as I say didn't develop until you were a couple of years old. So you must realise you are prior to the word. You're before the word. And what we call word is mind. What we call mind is word, concept, idea. So you are prior to the mind.

We take ourselves to be this body-mind. This separate entity. This individual. This person. But we need to investigate. To see for ourselves. And I tell you also that the false cannot stand up to investigation. We believe we are this person. This body-mind. And when you look into it and realise that's the cause of all your psychological problems. All your problems come about from that sense of separation. You've separated yourself from what they call the absolute. The great absolute. The great perfection. The godliness if you like to use that term. The one without a second. Not two. And if there is two. And there is a belief in two.

That's become relative. So you see all our problems. Are problems of relationship. Relative to. Relative to this conceptual image I have about myself. And seeing the other images as different. From what I am. We realise. That every word you've ever spoken. Or ever likely to speak. Has been learnt. Been picked up along the way. And the primary thought or idea. Is that concept or word I am. When we say I am. That is the sense of presence. And that's what they call it. In the wisdom. Sat Chit Ananda. Nama Rupa. Or other words. Consciousness bliss. Name and form. And have a look at that. Are you existing right now?

And yes you realise I am existing. Are you conscious? Yes I am conscious. I am not unaware. I must be aware. I am happy to be. You don't want to be dead right now. So you are happy to be. And when they tell you. You realise you are existence. You are conscious. You are happy to be. You must be already that. One essence of patterning. Shaping and forming. And appearing and expressing. As everything. You are already that. That we take ourselves to be. This person. And where does the word person come from? Because you see that word is not the real. Take the word water.

Can you drink the word? Can you swim in it? Can you drown in it? The word fire. Can you cook with it? Can you eat yourself? So when you look at this word. I or me. Maybe it is not your way of taking it to be. Because we put these images on it. These concepts. I am so and so. I am Australian. I am a good fellow. I am not so good. I don't like this. Or I am unhappy about that. Or I am fearful or anxious about something else. All these concepts. Are dividing up the one essence. Into words. Concepts. Ideas. And images. And I am not the one.

I am the one. I am the one. I am the one. I am the one. I am the one. I am the one. I am the one. But curse me. I don't want it. I am the one. You need to recognize. If it is one. As they say. You need to recognize that it is NON DUAL. If it is one. Without a second. It is ABSOLUTE. What can you add to absolute? When you realize you can't add anything to absolute. It wouldn't be absolute. What can you take away from it? You can't take anything away from it. In Buddhism. They give it another term. They call it the Great Perfection.

Well Perfection is the same as absolute. Can't add anything to it, can't take any of it away from it. And they give it to you in one sentence, they put it in. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That pure awareness that you're not unaware right now, that's expressing through you right now, is that life essence, without any concepts, without any words that divide it or seem to be separated. And so you're already there. Recognising that, then it's a big difference in the way you think, feel, see, hear, do, everything else. Instead of seeing from the point of view of separation, the sense of being separate and apart from it, and adding onto it more concepts, more ideas and images, you are recognising that one reality that you are.

And they call it in Buddhism a cognising emptiness. That word cognising, it's another term for knowing. And the Buddha made the statement that emptiness is form. He called it a cognising emptiness. We think we cognise emptiness, but we don't. It's the emptiness that's diffusing us, the livingness that's doing the cognising itself. And he called it a cognising emptiness. And he made the statement that emptiness is form. Pointing that you, I, and everything, all the forms in this room, are empty. They're all empty forms. They're not separate from this one essence. That's patterning, shaping and forming, because the screen on which everything appears is space. We're all sitting in space right now.

Try and get out of space if you can. And also have a look at space and see if you can find a centre to it. Does it have any beginning to it? Can you find a point where it begins? You can't say that space begins anywhere at all. You can't find a fixed point. And does it have a circumference, a boundary to it? Well, have a look out in space. Can you postulate or think of anything at all that be outside of space? Be it... different universes or different forms, different patterns, whatever. What would they all be in? What would anything at all be in?

Can you anticipate or imagine or conceptualise anything that can be outside of space? So it's all the content of space. You can't postulate anything at all that could be outside of space. Space is no thing. Because you've got the space around the rim, try and grasp it. Try and separate it. Try and divide it. You can't. It's no thing. And there's nothing you can postulate outside of space. So it is all no thing. And you're a thing. I'm a thing. The carpet's a thing. The tree's a thing. They're all things which we put the word or the label on. And divide them with the word.

And Christ... The Bible tells you that in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. That's all that God is, a word, a label. Which we put on there. All things were made by him, by the word. There was nothing made that was made without the word. Well, isn't that so? The chair, the carpet, the tree, the flower, you, me and everything are all words we put on. Labels we put on which we put the name, the shape and the form and the pattern on. So it's all made by the word. And divided and separated by the word. Without the word.

As Shakespeare told you 400 years ago, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And have a look at that. Isn't that a thing? Isn't that a fact? What can you say about anything you haven't got the word on? Can you say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, anything at all without the word? Because we're dividing it with all those labels, concepts, ideas. And we pointed out before, the word is not the thing. It's only a label or a name and form. The nama rupa. A name and form, nama rupa, name is the name we have. And rupa is the body, body-mind.

And they tell you that nama rupa, body-mind is Maya. It's illusion. They're pointing out that all this manifestation is illusion. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. Now it's appearing or seeming to be so. The things in this room are appearing. You can't say they're not appearing. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so. So these appearances, when you investigate, are not real. And pull it apart and see. Put it under a microscope. Have a look at it. You believe you are this body. Are you the body? Well, the nature of you already know you're not the body.

You say, my body. Just the same as you say, my coat. My car, my house. You know you're not the coat. You know you're not the car. You know you're not the house. You say, my body. Well, investigate. And that's what they tell us. These things need to be investigated. And looked into and seen for yourself. Nobody's going to do it for you. When you investigate, am I this body? What's the body made up of? You'll see the body's made up of elements. Fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Well, take the air out of your body. See how long you'd last without that element.

You wouldn't go too long without the element. Take the water. Your body's 60% water. You wouldn't last too long without that element, water. Take the fire, the body temperature. You'd soon get hypothermia and die of the cold. Get out of space if you can. You realize you can't get out of space. You can't get off the earth. You can't live out of the earth. So you must realize that you're not separate from those elements. You can't do without them. And all of those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles. Into pure energy. So all this body, mind is, is a vibrating pattern of energy.

Have a look at the mind. Investigate mind the same way. You say, my mind. Can anyone show me a thing called mind? Well, there's nothing separate to that. You can grasp onto it and say, this is my mind. You'll see that mind is nothing but thought. Thought is word. Word is sound. Sound is a vibration. Vibration's a body. It's a movement of energy. So this word is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. And all the words you're speaking, coming through the voice box, are sound. Vibration. We claim it to be mind. But I can't find anything substantial and solid that can say this is mind.

Without the word, what can you say about anything? You can't say anything at all. And you see that the word is not the real. So we've broken the body, mind, down into nothing but energy. And all the elements and everything else. And that energy is fused with intelligence energy. Or life, if you like to call it that. And that's what Christ told you years ago. When he said, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't talking about himself at all. He was talking about that sense of presence. The same sense of presence that's with you right now.

That's the way. That's the truth. And that's the life. And the Father, I'll tell you again, the Father and I are one. Not Big Daddy or some god in the sky. But the essence that it all appears in, to call the Father. And the Father is greater than I. That manifestation, is greater than the word or the thought. But they're both the same essence. Everything is that one. And it also says, no one can come to the Father, excepting through I am. Through that sense of presence. We've got to investigate that sense of presence. And seeing that it's only that life essence, that's enabling it to express.

That life essence is like the Father, the life. You are the truth and the life. Take the life out of that body. What have you got? You've got a corpse. No life in it. Now before that corpse breaks down and rots, you'll see it's still got all the organs. It's got the eyes, the ears, the brain, the heart, the lungs, the liver, kidneys. All the organs are there. But with no life essence going through, no animation, what are they? They're dead. They're not a bit of good. And the life as it's breaking down, there's more life in it. It's putting the bacteria and the microbes and that, that are varying and rotting it.

There's still a form of vibration pattern in it. But there's no life as we know it. So it's that life essence, or life energy, is what you are. A good analogy for that is when you look at a computer, you've got a computer. Now it's got amazing information in it. You can get all sorts of things up on that computer. But if the power's not turned on, what are you going to get out of it? Nothing whatsoever. So it's that power or energy, that electricity that's going through it, is what gives it any power at all. So it's that life essence that's expressing through these patterns, shapes and forms that enables you to do, see, hear, taste, touch, form.

That's the amazing and wondrous intelligence or life that's in it. It's forming this pattern, shapes and form, this body, which to express through. And it's these pattern, shapes and forms that have that capacity of life expressing through them. They're able to form things like computer and other things and put the machinery into it that makes them able to get all this information into it. But it's the same life, isn't it, that intelligence, what I call intelligence, the activity of knowing, that's enabling us to reason. How did you come about? Well, I'm sorry to tell you, there is only life. He says there's nobody who lives life.

Life lives on life. And out of life, more life comes. Well, have a look at that, isn't that so? That life that you are is eating animals, vegetables and all things, life. That's eating life, living on life to keep it going. And it came from life. It came from the life of your father and your mother coming together. Your mother carried around that little embryo in the body until it was born. Life. The life was in it. That animating life essence in your father enabling that pattern through the food he's eaten and the breath, a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye.

That sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother. That animating life essence in your mother enabled in that pattern another little microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form. That ovum or egg was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. And when those two came together, what happened? Those cells doubled and redoubled, began to form the little embryo, the little fetus, which is what you are today. What were you doing about them? The livingness was there, the life in it, from the cord attached to your mother and the food she's eating, and doubling that little fetus, that little embryo.

But what were you doing about it then? You weren't doing anything at all about it. And it wasn't until nine months later you were born, you came out. You took your first breath. Did somebody have to tell you to take it? It spontaneously happened. You might have got a whack on the backside or something to stir it up, but it happened naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. And your heart was beating while you were growing in the womb. And the life was there. But you had no words. You couldn't say, I was born. That's why you don't remember your birth. People get the idea, I did so-and-so when I was born.

But how would they know if they didn't have any words to express? So they could tell you some conceptual image they've got about themselves and what they believe to be happening. But the actuality was, you couldn't say a thing about yourself until you learnt words at about two to an hour. So you couldn't say a thing about yourself until you learnt words through your parents fussing around you. They started speaking words and the capacity of reasoning had started to develop then and you were able to hear these words. But for the first couple of years of your life, you had no words. Yet you were living quite well prior to the word.

And now what's happened, when we've learnt these words, we've taken it to believe my mind. We think it's a mind that I've got. But that mind is nothing but the concepts or words. And without any concepts or words, there is no such thing as mind. But there is still heart beating, breathing, hair and fingernails growing, cells being replaced, food being digested, the functioning is still going on. And the words are just a bit of either vibration of energy, just the same as the breathing in the heart. So it's all broken down into pure, what I call for whatever the term, I don't use the term, God, because I can get you confused with that idea, because all the traditions believe in this thing called God.

And they all have different concepts of what God is. They think God's a higher power or a greater power. But you read a lot of the scriptures and texts and they'll tell you there's only one self, one Atman, one Brahman, self, or Vishnu self, Shiva self, or one God. But we've broken it down into the many with the words. So that's the non-duality, the one without a second, the one essence that vibrates, expresses as everything. And it's only and ever one, not two. Two. It implies there's a division, a separation. We separate the words and make it seemly to me and the other. What's me and the other?

Isn't it? It's not the one non-duality. Now it's relationship. Duality. That's what duality is, relative to. Relationship. We've all got these problems of relationship. Male-female relationship, relationship between jobs and all these other things. And all the concepts and ideas come about because of this relationship, relativity. And recognise that everything is just as it is. The one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as if it's not divided, it's not separated. Something comes up and you like it. You say, I like it. You've divided it into me, that we think this idea of me is, that likes this other thing. Instead of seeing it's the one essence, as Shakespeare told you, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

And the Sargadatta tells you there's nothing can trouble you, except your own imagination. Well, have a look at that one. All these psychological problems we have, the fear, the depression, the guilt, the unhappiness, anxiety, stress, jealousy, envy. Take what he says and if you're seeing it right, he says nothing can trouble you, except what you're imaging in. What creating, what images you are creating and formulating with the words, the concepts, the ideas. That's an amazing statement. And that shows you the way out. If you like to follow it. What am I troubled by? Aren't I troubled by what I'm thinking, feeling, or the things that have happened, this doesn't like me or I shouldn't be doing that, or that's bad or this is good, and I want this and I don't want that.

All creating conceptual images of how it should be or how I think it should be. And that's the way out. Instead of leaving it as is. What's as is mean? It means just as it is, right here, right now. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Not putting any concept, words or ideas on it, just leaving it be. And it can't not be. As it is. That's not good enough. I want it to be as it was. If it was better, I think it was better. Or I want it to be what it will be. Or what I'd like it to be. Never fixating or noticing the is-ness. It's all within trying to be.

Now look at that word being. That's another way they express the sad shit in the end. It's being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who's not being right now, you realize, no, I'm being. Anybody who's not knowing that, yes, I know that I am. And anyone who's not happy to be, well, I don't want to be dead, I don't want to be unhappy, yes. I'm happy to be right now. So, again, pointing out that you are already that. Already. We've probably been searching for years. And never found the answer. Why? See what they tell you. They tell you that you'll never find the answer in the mind.

Because the mind's a fiction. You'll never find the answer. And they explain that by saying, they call it the peace that passes all understanding. The peace that passes all understanding. That means that it can't be understood or concept or grabbed by the mind. Don't need the mind to graph it and try and translate it. Because we're trying to understand it with a concept. And that would disturb the peace. How much peace you've got now. What must be the brief moments when the peace is there. But recognise without the thoughts, without the concepts, if you relax into it and recognise what's going on, there'll be a lot longer periods when that peace that's prior to understanding is there.

The sense of wellbeing without the concepts. Nothing wrong anymore. And the thinking matter. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. What you are imaging in. I am that. All these different ways they put it and tell us about it. But we persisted in carrying on in this belief in the human form. I will become realised if I meditate. Or if I pray. Or if I repeat this mantra. You haven't become realised through that. And you know it's not satisfactory. Because you're looking a bit further. You start looking to other things like this stuff. Because in your ordinary traditional religions, in your prayers, in your pastimes and all that, hasn't got you too far or you'd be right with them still.

But know the innate intelligence entity that you are is recognised. There's got to be a little bit more to it than that. And I'll go to this or I'll go to that. It might resonate a bit more here or a bit more there. The thing is that I need to quit trying to grasp it with a concept. Because they tell me it is non-conceptual awareness. It's that pure awareness. Are you unaware right now? No, you're not. That awareness is right with you right now. You can't negate it. You can't say, I am not that being. What's the big deal? Going to the spiritual world. Going to make it any more real than the real is impossible.

And when they say be what you are, not what you believe yourself to be or not what you think you are. Be exactly as you are right now. Present and aware. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. Leave it as singular instead of dividing it up. Not contriving. Any thoughts, concepts, ideas or images which divide us. Recognise that right here, right now, I am that. I am that pure being. Look at that being. You call yourself a human being. Believe in God, you'll call God the supreme being. A greater being than what I am. But what happens if you take that language? You take the label human off.

The word we put on our being is human. And take the label supreme off. Just let it stick with its actuality which is being. Being is not knowing. It's not what will be. The being, the I-N-G on it, there's something that's going on right now within each and every one of you. You recognise that I am that being. Now what do I need to search for? What do I need to meditate on? Who or what or why do I need to pray to something? What I need to do is to drop all the concepts and ideas which are obscuring it. Leave it in its natural reality.

Just as it is right now. So that's enough from me. Kat can hang on right now. Welcome everyone who are online with us. We have few welcome messages and we have couple of questions. So they were comments also as you were speaking. As you were quoting Bible, Jay said, I AM in capital is the way. I AM is the truth. I AM is the life. No one comes to the realisation of being except through I AM. Yeah, that's... I like that precision of saying it because it seems like it's been missed out that word. The way you sometimes quote Bible and say, Oh, I AM the way.

He's not talking about himself. I AM the word. The sense of being which is represented by the word is the way. So thank you, Jay. And we have Tanya. Tanya, if you recognise there is no separate I or me, can anxiety still arise or anxiety would not arise anymore? There can be sensations. Yeah, there can be sensations. But are you going to label them anxiety, stress or hate or fear? Just see them as they are, presence or wealth? Yes. So I actually did answer that as you were speaking because I didn't want her to be marinated in that anxious question. So, but roughly in the same way.

I said first that have you seen that in nature, in wildlife perhaps? Action fear propelling survival and broken brain in responding erratically to the trauma. Wildlife does not have narrative self, no concept of separation. But when this arise and are not taken on board, they also subside and heal faster. So Tanya says, yes, I noticed action fear moving animals to move to, so they can survive. So anxiety, quote unquote, can arise and just feeling it with no resistance and not going into the story, taking it on board, it will pass. And it doesn't matter if it arises, question mark. Anxiety arising doesn't mean anything. And I just said especially if, when you don't even need to label it as anxiety.

So as Bob said, the sensation, vibration, nothing is left. Every energy is free to express itself. It's just the story. Yes, the thought, feeling and emotion. First there's a subtle thought, there for a little while. Then it will cause a feeling. Some feeling you might call fear, another one anxiety, another one just pure feeling. Which we put the labels on the words. Which we've taken them, leaving. And of course that's just an example. Sometimes the feeling comes first. Like baby obviously will not have thought or animal will not have thought. So sometimes it's an environmental trigger. Like the bear running at you. It doesn't need the thought to create the feeling.

But they are three aspects of the same one. So thought, feeling, emotion. Emotion, feeling, thought. Feeling, thought, emotion. Often it comes this way. Feeling reinforced by the story causes emotion in the body. So either way they are three aspects of the one. And if label is taken off, what is left is just open field of curiosity. Of getting to know the life the way it expresses in the present moment. Because the thought will take you to the story with future, past and all the mental turmoil. While just being still with the energy arising. And being curious about what life is presenting on that empty screen of awareness.

Not only heals it faster, evens the energy up. But it also makes it really interesting, fascinating, lovable, pleasant in a way even. Regardless of what habitually we would label that particular frequency. So nothing is resisted anymore. And then Tanya says, the mind is fiction. She's quoting Sailor Bob. So no thought or story is true. And I said absolutely. Yeah, no thought is true. The truth is that which never changes. Thought doesn't last. It's just a thing. It changes. And Tanya also comments on her own question on anxiety. True, taking the label of it takes some sting out of it. It's just a vibration that will pass on its own.

And you don't even need it to pass. If you are completely empty and open to really get embracing it. You don't really want to resist it anymore. That's what life or God presents on the screen. So you are one with life. That's what's happening. And Tanya also says, wow. That, and that was on a comment of mind is a fiction. No thought is true. That puts into perspective something believed in here for seeming long time. That belief is not true. We'll sit with this. Enjoy. And. And. Yeah. What happens in every moment is up to Supreme life energy. Therefore, there is nothing that the you can do.

Beautiful. You said. Yeah. If the you is a mental construct, it obviously can't do much. But the essence of the, of everything is that one life or one energy. And that is the ultimate doer. So the you, which you believe yourself to be, who is not the doer and has no power. It's also not who you are. You are not the one who's not the doer. As life, you are the doer. That's why the Ram jumped over the cliff. He heard the Beatles sing. There'll never be another you. And then Tanya says, thank you. Open cut. And that is it for the online comments. So we would like to invite you all to participate.

Ask questions. Tell us your story or your version or what worked or what didn't. Nothing works. You say Haman. That's a brilliant pointer. You want to elaborate on that? Yes, I will. Yes, that's true. Nothing is everything. And here that that's the infinite energy because it's formless. Nothing is infinite energy because it's formless. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. Nothing is infinite power. And that's all. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Last week, the beautiful lady was seated there. She was saying something about when you have a thought in your mind, and then you want to do something, that means you have the sequence of action.

Like you want to do this to achieve this. But then the awareness has some other plan for you. Something last week, the lady was this. Can you elaborate on that? And you said that was really very good. Like you have something in your mind. You want to do something. But you don't know what to do. You don't know what to do. You have the divine consciousness as some other plans. But it doesn't happen according to what you want. And then you get all the frustration, the anger. And you waste a lot of energy on it. That was very beautiful last week. If you can talk more on that.

Yeah. Bob, you want to comment? It was Jacinta. She was giving an example. I think it was about her son. probably knows that example from from our own lives like you know the narrative always has a commentary about what i'm gonna do oh boss treated me unfairly oh next time i see him i'll go i'll go and say this and that and the other and next time i see him it's completely different mood different energy different weather different level of proteins in my breakfast and everything is completely different and the response is completely different and spontaneous so that planning that narrative which says oh i'm gonna do this and that it means absolutely nothing it is just an expression of the energy in the moment when the next moment comes it is fresh and new and the energy is different and that energy is the sum total of all the influences all the influences of the whole universe which is one thing inseparable it appears as ten thousand things and those ten thousand things create a different spontaneous moment so whatever i've planned to say or to do yesterday or a week ago it may or may not happen it's really not up to me because that was just blah blah blah narrative automatic program that program has no power it just plays as it has been the software as it has been set to play and life is spontaneous as jacinta was saying the awareness of life has completely different plan it is a romantic way of putting it the way we look at it there is no such thing as divine plan the life is spontaneous and ever updating unfolding because well if you would have a possibility to watch that infinite amount of factors and calculate the outcome but that's some other factor even the calculation so it goes into an infinity it is spontaneous that's how we like to look at it so instead of seeing divine plan that okay god has planned this that or the other life is spontaneously unfolding and every new element influences the unfolding and it's a real time self-updating saga dilla says the unexpected always happen they anticipate and imagine very rarely if it ever does But it is still better to look at the whole manifested world as something that, oh, I have my ideas and life has, or God has, their ideas.

It is simplification but it's good enough for the purpose of relaxing your own ideas and surrendering to that power greater than yourself, the omnipotence, omnipresent, omniscient life or God. It is because it's obvious you can't run your own brain, you can't fire your synapses, you can't beat your heart and life does it. So there is a thought coming up and that thought says, I'm in charge, I'm in control, I'm going to do this, that and the other. That is also life, giving the thought. The me constructed in the thought, that's also life. Me is just a reflection, like a smoke and mirror, it's nothing there.

It has no power. It's like a caricature, like a cartoon character. It has absolutely no power. But that life which creates thinking and responses and program the body to beat the heart and program the whole environment, or we can say program it kind of assumes that there is sort of a human-like intelligence. No. It is much, much greater than our thinking capacity. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Because that's the essence of who you are. But thank you for bringing it up. Isn't it a great relief to even be able to approach life from the perspective of whatever my blah, blah, blah chatter says, it's not of the great importance.

My mind saying, oh, it's going to be terrible, oh, it's going to be horrible, whatever, the projections and the stories, they can relax because there is much, much, much greater intelligence that runs the whole show and you can just trust it. You were saying when I spoke to you that your experience, you were sharing your experience, you felt very heavy and then all of a sudden in the moment you just let go everything and you just, I felt, I mean, I'm feeling like that. It's so heavy. It's very, very heavy. So restless inside, like what you were saying. It's like fighting within me. Every cell, it's like I'm so restless.

It's so heavy. I just want to just let it go. I just want to be in a state where there's no mind, that kind of feeling where I can't hold it. I just can't hold it. I just want to let it go, but it's not happening. Like it's not, I'm finding it hard. It's like I feel stuck here. You know, it's very heavy, you know. Do you have moments? Yes, I do have moments. I do have those moments. That's some sort of moments and it's very beautiful where I feel like floating. I just feel so nice. Where I'm no longer in my body, but I want to hold on to that.

That's so nice. Where you don't have any mind. Everything is just taken care of, you know. Where you don't have any feelings. That feeling of, you know, just letting go. I think Peter wanted to answer that. Yeah, I just wanted to say that in the course of a day, how much time do you actually spend feeling very heavy? Probably not very much. When I'm listening to the first one, it's just so nice. Like when I'm like, So in the things around, I can feel the heaviness here. Just in the center. Very heavy and it's like fighting within me. It's like fighting something, like it's fighting and I can't control it.

I can't hold on to it. In the next instant, you can feel something entirely different, can't you? Mm. And you do often let it go, even that just naturally, in the natural flow of the day, which is really in reality, your natural self. When you're not, there are plenty of times when you're not actually thinking about things at all, are you? You're not thinking about yourself in relationship to this heaviness that you say, actually. So that may inform you about something at least, that something's driving you, living you, you know, in a way which is different to what you perceive it to be. Like right now, you're placing a lot of emphasis on that heaviness.

The fact is that heaviness is never, hardly ever in your consciousness. It's an idea that comes and goes, isn't it? From one moment to the next. Why don't you just trust that? Trust that flow, that presence, that awareness. It's where everything is. I was just going to refer back to what Bob said. He said, all conflict is relative. All conflict is caused by relationship. Relationship is duality. Duality is that story you have about yourself and then a response to it. That's what duality is. So what Bob was saying is all conflict arises when it's relative to a me. Now that me, have a look for it.

Have a look for that me. That me can only live if you're in the past or in the future. That me is a story about you. And then you have a response to that me saying it feels heavy. And then you have another response saying I want it to be, you know, I don't want it to be like this. So there's the conflict, you know. It's dual. It's him. Well, that's naming. That's naming a sensation. And Bob says, well, what happens if you don't name it? What happens if you don't name it? It passes. And you just breathe into it. And see if you can find the centre of that me.

See if you can find it. All it is is a memory of you. Well, it's just a sensation. If you don't name it, if you don't name it heavy, you just breathe into it. Don't name it heavy. That's just naming a sensation. And what happens is it's a wishful filling tree. If you keep naming something anxiety or heaviness or I don't want to feel like this and blah, blah, there's the split. There's a me. Not wanting to be with you. Not wanting to be with what is. You know. So just try that anyway. Just a pointer. Ramana Maharshi said there's two ways to self-realisation. And that's self-enquiry or surrendering everything to God.

And pretty much that's all we speak about here. And there was something that was said earlier. I think by Kat. I think by Kat addressing the comments about resistance and the resistance to sensation. And when sensation is like this, right? It's up and it's down. And when there's no resistance to the ups and to the downs. And when you realise that those ups and downs are not a product of you. They're a product of God. There is a deeper ecstasy. But even that's a label. There's a deeper peacefulness. And that's the oneness. That is God itself. So surrendering to God and self-enquiry lead to the same place.

And that's the state of undifferentiated oneness. And that's what we are. But even the desire to get to that. Is a trap in of itself. But thank you. That was beautiful. Everyone who spoke. That was brilliant. I would just repeat one thing, Saroja. What Bob always stressed very strongly. We are realising what is already present. So those moments when there is no abstraction. When there is no cloud of thoughts and heaviness and feelings. It's a natural state. And this natural state sometimes gets obscured. Something gets in the way into that attention field. It may be the heaviness, physical sensation. And if it's just a sensation without the story attached.

Well, maybe it would be a good idea to consult a medical specialist. Because who knows? That may be something physical without. Because usually when the sensation comes. This is the body calling for attention. Something needs attention in the body. Who knows? Maybe that would be worthy of looking into. If there is nothing physical. If there is a thought backing it off. Let's say, oh, I'm worthless. I'm wasting my potential. I'll never get it. That thought is crushing your soul. It's closing your heart. I know because I've been there for most of my life. And that creates that horrible heaviness. But that's a thought. And that thought is known from the stillness of presence awareness.

Of awareness of presence. You know the heaviness from the point beyond the heaviness. You describe it as a thing. You describe the thought as an object. And you are pure subjectivity. So it is to actually recognize that even in the midst of the most crushing suffering. You're witnessing it from the place of the peace. And just keep coming back to what is already and always present. Because you are already that natural state. It's already present. That open field of space who doesn't judge. Space doesn't have preferences. Space is all embracing, all welcoming, and all loving. That's who you are. It is already here. And in that, all that heaviness comes and goes.

And luckily, I'm glad to hear, it comes and it goes. And you have moments of respite. Give all of your heart and all of your attention to see through those moments of respite. What and how they get obscured. The great helpful advice Bob gives initially. And it feels like, oh, there is a me who will be doing it. No. It is really to just resonate. Watch the mind. See how it functions. See what it does. See what brings up what. Be curious about it. You're getting to know that phenomenal manifested life essence showing up as a form. That's the only way. And that body, which is the closest, which is your vehicle, which gives you eyes to see.

That's the only one you can get to know that intimately close. Just enjoy the process because you will see it does really get easier as you put all of your heart into that inquiry. It does really open up. In my case, in Bob's case, in few other people's case, it was one big moment. It's not an explosion of firework. Because it's not a moment of something suddenly being up. It's not suddenly being added to you. No. It's just a moment when the weight drops off. So it feels like, oh, huge thunder and it shocks you and suddenly you are free and holy and saint. None of that.

It's just like you put out the heavy load of things. So for majority of people, it happens gradually. You know, you kind of look. But the thoughts are a little bit more frequent. The thoughts are recognized more and more often. And even though for Bob and I, the seeing through, the seeming self, the construct was instantaneous. Thoughts are still appearing and thoughts are still hanging on for a while. And over the years they are hanging on for less because thoughts are fueled with energy. So now those thoughts are getting less attention, they're getting less energy. So even though the moment was just that deconstruction of the image was instantaneous, the patterns of behaviors, patterns of responses, they break down and go off.

Like seven years ago I was still having very fanatical beliefs about being vegan and stuff like this. And that was the truth. And of course not. If you ask anyone, is the thought ever true? No. But I didn't really question it. It didn't really come. I still don't question it. But I find this belief is absent. It's not there anymore. And a lot of those life examples as it works through, like Jane often say, the truth which eats away. It's kind of, it kind of really clears up those stones, those obstructions, those veils in front of the light, that natural light of living. And if I could just say, Kat, once I read I Am That, the book I Am That, and started to listen to Bob, I knew that my search was over.

Hmm. that point because I could see through like you said I could see through the story of the me or the the alleged self but that didn't mean that old habits didn't die hard there were there was a lot of identification with that separate self that had gone on since I was a little two and a half year old so even though I knew my search was over I definitely was the old old habits die hard scenario going on you know but I knew once I really resonated with Bob that what he was saying was the truth because like you said we've always known that we've always had moments of that because we've never been separate from it absolutely yeah and that was that was beautifully said see the point and this is just so much better worded instead of all I have attained the Enlightenment there's no I to attain the Enlightenment but the search drops away it's over there's nothing to seek anymore why because there is no one to seek anything that's the freedom when there is no one who wants one thing different there is no one there who wants one hair on this head to be any different on this beard nothing needs to be different because there is no one who has any resistance to that perfect moment which life presents right now even if that includes the toothache the the old age anything it is there is no one who objects to it that's the freedom freedom from the self but not for the self there's no me that is free freedom from.

And what am I now? There's no one who asks that question. There's no one who cares, who wants to know who am I. So there's no not knowing who am I or what am I. It's just being. Did you want to say something? Mind over matter. If I don't mind, it doesn't matter. Absolutely. How beautiful. Yes. And then I have a couple of comments here from Kieran. Hi Kieran. Kat, you have such a beautiful mothering energy. The way you explain things feels so accessible and with such loving, gentle energy. Your words always feel so important to me. So thankful for you. Thank you, Kieran. That's a beautiful projection.

Kieran is just a young mother of a beautiful little boy. So thank you. I'll own it. And Jay says, Suffering comes when we cling onto a desired result rather instead of accepting what transpires. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well put in words. And I'll read it again because that's really a great summary. Suffering comes when we cling onto a desired result instead of accepting what transpires. Instead of being one with life, we have better ideas. God was an idiot. He got it all wrong. I know better what should be happening. That's a joke, of course. And then Tanya says, Oh, she's commenting on Kieran. I am so thankful for how Kat points things out too.

So much resonance with the beautiful, accessible clarity. Thank you, Tanya. And Kieran says, and also such subtle fierceness. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you . Okay. Healthiest, and what is your definition of life? Love is when I think about strength, to the point of circuitry. That's profound. Exactly. Great. Thank you. me which which you're not and Zulma says right here right now you are perfect in the energy that you are that is exactly right Zulma everyone is the perfect manifestation of that one essence there is nothing wrong with anyone if you think that you should be younger wiser richer or whatever else again you arguing with reality you're telling God that he's an idiot you are a masterpiece you are the pure perfection including the extinction of species and climate change anything that happens in the dream is absolute perfection and it and it could be seen as such and the action flowing from it it doesn't mean to stop you from helping others or elevating suffering or ending the the environmental distress or whatever Ram can anything appear outside of space good point recognize that all phenomena arise from that emptiness or basic space it is the one essence patterning and shaping us everything make the slightest distinction however this is a quote and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart what from it seems in me who makes the distinction well put run beautiful and Tanya what Jane was saying Wow Jane that was really helpful and the heart yes and Tanya says commenting on what she said before on anxiety no nothing can appear outside of space so all phenomena is basic space the one essence vibrating a sensation good question no one making this tension just thought appearing exactly exactly that's it you got it and JB says a question Bob was speaking about the non-conceptual awareness and knowing that we are is the non-conceptual awareness the non-conceptual awareness is it is already without words otherwise it would be an object but when the mind tries to struggle with all the concepts beliefs then seekers are removed into a story and miss what already is by adding concepts and words is there any more elaboration on this is just more mental gymnastic but can you elaborate a little more please on non-conceptual awareness so JB says a non-conceptual awareness already is right and then the words and other objects that struggle all happen within that non-conceptual awareness would you like to elaborate on this don't like you but anything left everything but okay so yeah you got it right there is an open field of cognizing emptiness emptiness with the capacity of knowing being knowing clothing to be it needs the form to express through the body mind and And the way it expresses is through seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking.

But it is still happening in that non-conceptual awareness. And it is still that cognizing emptiness expressing as all those faculties and facilities. So we are landing back to what is already present, the non-conceptual awareness. You know that you are, even when you close your eyes and your ears and even if you stop thinking, there is a knowing that you are. And then somebody says, yeah, but when I sleep I don't know. Well, you're not sleeping right now, are you? So we're not going to the mind, to the future or the past. We are talking about this moment. Any other moment is projected, imagined. And that is it.

I hope that's what you meant, JB. If not, just make that question a little bit more precise. Maybe Bob will jump in. One thing I've noticed is that everything in life is always 100%. Like if you're a little bit sleepy, you're 100% a little bit sleepy. Beautiful. Yes. If you're slightly bored, you're 100% slightly bored, etc. Everything is 100%. Yeah. And how brilliant. If you can actually see life in exactly this way, you are living 100%. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. You are present with whatever arises, 100%. That's beautiful. Thank you, Richard. And JB says, oh, thank you, Bob. Yes, it is what I was asking.

Did you want to say something, Josh? No. Oh. Just checking. OK. Throwing him under the bus. The answers, I think everyone's heard, you know, the answers are within, right? And within the heart, within the heart and the heart of your being, when you feel into that, there's no desire for anything else, you know? And that is the oneness that that is God. And that's why they say drop into the heart. Sorry, we've got a little bit of an energetic conflict in your system. Well, that simply means you're doing these things as they are correctly. You're meditating correctly. That's why these things are happening. Thank you.

And we're all six, seven hours fully realized per day. But the problem is we are deeply asleep. So we have to leave things as they are until it becomes default mode network. Thank you. Beautiful meetings always Bob. I just sort of heard an analogy the other day. Like there's a radio there and you turn on the radio and like there's words and voices and noises coming out of the radio, but there's no one in the radio. So I like that sort of way of describing it. Same with thoughts, feelings and everything. Like they're coming out, but there's no owner of them. They're just arising out of the space.

So anyway, I just want to share that. That's beautiful. Thank you. I thought it was a little man in the radio. He's in my iPhone. Good point. Investigate. Mine's a woman. See, they're fine. Fair enough. The next thing they were telling me, Father Christmas is not real. And I would like to just quickly highlight what Hyman was saying. And thank you for that. That's actually, even though it kind of slips into my mind. It kind of slips into future and past. You may rest assured that when the mind goes to sleep, that natural state is all there is. So yes, you are back into that oneness every time when that one drops every night when you go to sleep.

Even though, of course, that's a theory because right now you're not going to sleep. But it is a helpful pointer that may be actually resonating and putting the heart at rest. This is your natural state. You're there every day, not only in glimpses, but also when you sleep. Every moment, even when there's a story. That's true. That's true. Every moment, even when it is an obscuration by perception or interpretation, the mind. So coming back even is, you know, you never left, really. It's always, that presence is always there, no matter what the story is. It's just the habit of naming and claiming. Really, isn't it?

You know, we, it's just such a big habit, naming and claiming. And yet that presence is always there. Every moment, no matter what, what's going on in the mind. And what Ram was pointing out earlier, there is nothing that can exist without space. Even when you think of the dream at night, it requires some sort of a mental space for that dream to appear. You are that space. Dream is a passing phenomenon, it's an object. Mental space, physical space, whatever the divisions we can do to space, we can divide it into intellectual space, emotional space, whatever the space. But really, it is that basic screen of presence, that present existence.

We can call it no-thing, because it isn't a thing. But it isn't nothing either, because it is vibrant and alive, and it has the potential to appear as everything. So it can't be said what it is. It can't even be said what it is not, because it envelopes everything. But that is the essential I am feeling. That is, that is it. You are that. You can't be anything else. And whatever shows up on that screen of presence, on that capacity for knowing, is passing phenomenon. It comes and goes. But that one, that one is the heart. That one is the one that really deserves to shine the light, to turn and look, give it attention, rather than the thought, rather than anything else.

And from that space, whatever arises, heaviness arises, call for attention. No story. Just curiosity. And see how long it lasts. Because is it here now? Is it here now? The heaviness? Do you feel it now? I can still feel the heaviness. I can still feel the heaviness there. It's still there. But when I meditate, and when I am listening to those satsangs, I don't feel anything. I don't even feel my body. I don't feel anything. Like I'm floating. Like I'm, I'm, it's so, there's no words to describe. It's just nothing. But when, when the mind, you know, comes back, then I feel heavy. When I'm talking, I feel heavy.

When I'm in silence, it's nice. When I'm just quiet, within myself, it's nice. So when Bob was speaking, before we opened the forum, was it there? No, it was not. Because I was closing my eyes and it was nice. But when I open my eyes, when I see, I can feel the heaviness there. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Like have you ever been addicted to caffeine or anything? No, no, not really. Well, if you've ever been addicted to anything, and then you stop it, it doesn't feel so great, you know? No, so, so the analogy I'm drawing here is, So, so my analogy here is like, when you are disidentifying from the mind or the self, that becomes a sort of addiction.

And when you stop that, you get all these sensations and it's like you're coming off an addiction. And Bob was an alcoholic and smoked a pack of cigarettes for 15, 20 years. And I think coming off that, right, actually showed him when he was then in the ashram and, you know, doing all these things, he'd already been to that place, right? So when you can actually accept those feelings, just as it's a happening, it's because I've, I've suffered, I say I've experienced, I don't say I've suffered because suffering is a product of the mind. Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional, right? And doctors suspect I've had a chronic pain condition.

I've had chronic pain for most of my life actually. And when I was starting this, my solar plexus was like on fire constantly. And I went to the doctors just to see if there was anything physical, nothing. Bunch of throat pain, went to the doctors, anything physical, nothing. And when, you don't resist the pain, it can actually turn into a sort of ecstasy because pain and pleasure are two sides of the one coin. In the Bhagavad Gita, it says, pain and pleasure are one to the wise man. And when you see that they are one, right, there will be no suffering. So pain will constantly be there throughout your entire life.

I'm sure Bob experiences quite a bit of pain. His knees banged up, right? If you sit in the one position for too long, you'll get pain. Pain is always there. Tiredness, hunger, sensation is always there. But it's the resistance to it that's the problem. And realize you're not, even if there is resistance, you're not the one resisting. And you're not the one not resisting. Right? And so just recognize that and see what happens. Yeah, I think the greatest thing for me was to say that I was addicted to the me, the story of me. That was the biggest addiction I ever had. It was self-centeredness.

It was self-will run riot. It was all different manifestations of an alleged self. And then when I met Bob, he said, well, there isn't one. There's only oneness. And so the mind went into this frenzy because the mind can only work in the pairs of opposites, can only work in me, you, happy, sad, pleasure, pain, desire, fear. So the mind or the me, the alleged me or the alleged mind went into a spin because that was the deepest habit of all, was a reference point of a me, which Bob rightly pointed out earlier, is a relativity, which is where all conflict arises. So on having seen through that, it didn't mean all of a sudden that it was just gone forever.

It just meant that it didn't have the same weight or the same heaviness, which you so rightly point out. It lost its heaviness. And I like the analogy of walking up a hill with a backpack full of rocks. You know, eventually you're traveling lighter because every time there's a recognition that you're not that, me, it becomes lighter. Things become lighter. So I like your analogy. I like your analogy of heaviness because it's an old habit which dies hard, that identification with the me, but eventually the backpack gets lighter. That's why sometimes, just quickly, I was going to say, sometimes people come into this feeling like, oh, enlightenment, it's going to be this state of bliss and pleasure, and then a fucking lot of pain comes up and they don't stick through it.

They don't stick through it because that was for the I, and the I cannot experience it. And so this path isn't always a pleasurable one. So if you're in it for more comfort and pleasure, that's not what it's about, right? It's beyond that. It's way beyond that. It is the thing in which pleasure and pain arise in. So anyway. Yeah, so I was just going to say, how do you feel right now? I want it to go. I feel like... Yeah, you want this moment to be different. I want that moment where I just want it to go. I can still feel it. It's in there.

The heaviness is there. And when I'm no longer in my body, I think that's my addiction. I love that. I want to be in that because there's no pain, there's no suffering, there's no fear, there's no anxiety, you are nothing. But when I open my eyes, when I'm in that sense, then my heaviness come back. I'm talking, but my heaviness is there. So I want to hold on to that moment where it's beautiful. I just want maybe like what Jane said, it will take time. That's the concept. The concept. Time is a concept. Yeah. And yeah. I feel like now is like a perfect time for you to see who you're relating that heaviness to because it's coming up quite a lot.

You know, for me, say for example, my heart rate's a little bit higher. Now I've got this mic in my hand, but I'm just not relating it to an idea of who I am. So while it's here and it might feel, say if I wanted to label it intense, it's slowly leaving me. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a perfect time to notice the feeling and just notice that who you're relating it to is a fiction. It's not real. It's not who you are. It's not who anyone is. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This isn't anything different to what's already been said. What's already been said so beautifully, but at another slightly different angle.

What if you could just let go of wanting it to be different? Yeah. So you just don't, can you let go of wanting? What if you just let that go just for a second? Give it one second. Just let go of wanting it. That's a surrender. Accepting what is. It's an interesting concept that when you really do it, it's a whole different world. It's a whole different. Can you let go of the wanting? Let it be different? Just for a time, this fraction of a second. I can see it going. Beautiful. When I let go of it. Don't hold onto the niceness. Yeah. Yeah, dance.

Dance faster. Good point, Dean. Don't hold onto the niceness. Yeah, just enjoy it. It's not a cry out. I have a couple of more comments and we are over time. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's just hear KK, so I'll just quickly leave it and then, everyone is welcome to join us for lunch. So this is Ram and the Me pattern is another appearance in that basic screen, also known as the casual body in Vedantic parlance.

But there is a knowing, and knowing that knows the space and the contents of that space. What is that knowing? And J says. our soul has chose to play this games of suffering and bliss for the purpose of realizing that it is just a game, a play of energy. And Keith says, maybe the wanting creating the heaviness, preferences. Yes, and Tanya, wow, letting go of wanting things to be different, there is such a relaxation and there is such lightness, just being. Thank you for this beautiful meeting. And Zuma says, and there is an idea of something is going to happen when everything is always as it is.

Beautiful words of wisdom. And JB says, thank you Bob and Kat for a wonderful Sunday morning. Thank you so much for everything. I'm thankful for everyone here. It reminds me of a great family. And Yale says, I agree with the idea of the gentleman regarding the spiritual path being an arduous one. Everything gets accelerated and magnified. Fun times of all the previous action you assumed was your own. Karma in the brackets. There is always an ouch somewhere in there. And Keith says, let go of preferences. And Katrina is, if there is no one, who would let go? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And Xanti says, beautiful meeting.

Yeah, if there is no one, who would let go? Who's asking the question? Who wants to know? It doesn't really matter who. It is the letting go. It doesn't have to be anyone. You know, like who is opening the feast when the strength has stopped being applied? No one. And when the strength has stopped being applied, it opens on its own. But good question, Katrina. It's always good to be reminded. And thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.