Nonduality with Sailor Bob. Heaven or hell? 16 Oct 2022

Julia, Justin, George, Josh, Lockie, Sarah, Jack, Jack, Phoebe, Bing, Hema. Well, good morning everyone. You've all got a bit of an idea what we talk about by now. The same old thing, single and very simple. And that's the problem. We make it complex by the erroneous beliefs we've taken on board and never questioned. The belief we are this separate entity, this individual, this person. The ancients sort of recognised it down through the so-called ages and the different traditions. That it's this, that and the other. And pointed out that it's non-dual. One without a second, not two. It is the one essence. It's patterns, shapes, forms, expresses and experiences as everything.

That is all there is. If that is all there is and there's nothing separate, you must only be. That. And isn't that the great mantra? I am that. Shall I tell you to look at? That is all there is. Everything must be that. And if you haven't got the label on it, can it be separated? So it's the word that separates, seemingly separates everything. And every one of us has words. But how many words were you born with? And you realise you weren't born with any words because you cannot say, I was born. Because you don't remember. You didn't have any words, how could you say it?

For the first couple of years of life, we didn't learn any words. So you learn that words have been picked up. And so much of our life is consumed by the words. So much of our life is consumed by the words. So much of our life is consumed by the words. And believed in the words. We've got these complex lives. Where we're fearful, we're anxious, we're unhappy. It doesn't need to be so. What would happen if you understood and recognised that there was no separation, no division. That everything was like they said. It's all that already. Wouldn't life be much simpler? Wouldn't there be less traumas, dramas, and fears, and fights in it?

If there wasn't a sense of separation, or I'm an individual, I'm a person. And this one's against me, or I don't like that. And all the concepts that come up with that sense of separation. I'm not likeable, or I'm unhappy. If the recognition or understanding or knowing that there's one essence appearing, patterning, shaping, forming, as everything, how could it be divided? Here it's said they put the cart before the horse. Well, you can load the cart down, put all sorts of things in the cart. But can it go anywhere? Anywhere without the horse. And the horse needs guidance. The horse can pull the cart, but it can't be guided, where it's going.

So we are like the guide of the horse which pulls the cart. So the same thing's happening in life. We think, got the cart before the horse, and think it's going to do everything. But the horse has the power to pull the cart. And we have the power to guide the whole lot. That pure intelligence energy. A personal doership. Because the person couldn't guide the horse, and the horse couldn't pull the cart. They were all individual and separate on their own. You see here it's the one life, and the one essence, that's doing everything. And isn't that what you are? You've got all sorts of concepts that you are this human pattern, shape and form.

But what is it that's enabled any thought, any feeling, or any experience, or any movement to happen? If that life wasn't animating, animating this body, breathing it, beating the heart, causing the thoughts to happen, all the thoughts, feelings and emotions. That's what they point out. That there is only life. And you are the life. And the Sargadatta points it out when he says there's nobody who lives the life. Nobody, not your body or your mind, that lives the life. The life, that's like the cart. The life itself is animating and moving the body. And it's enabling to do that. So you are that life, not the person.

Absolute, total. Recognise that, and take your stance there. And see what happens then. See the changes that will come about from that point of view. But you know what happens from this point of view of a sense of person. There's fear, there's anxiety, there's stress, there's guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy, unhappiness. All these things are occurring because of a belief. A belief in a separation. When you learnt words that your parents told you, you were born. And you take that on. And you know that you are born. And you take that on. I was born. And that's what was born. That sense of presence. And knowing that you are, that translates into that thought, I.

I means a separate entity. An individual, a person, one. And it is the one essence that we take in, in all these seeming separate patterns, shapes and forms you say, to be individuals, persons. And when we learn words like I am, which is a translation of the sense of presence. The awareness of being present. Which is with each and every one of you now. But we take that sense of presence to be personal. Somebody asks who you are, you'll say I am Harry or Jack or Jane or whatever your name might be. Because that's what your parents told you. I am Harry. I put that name or label on you.

The person. Instead of saying that I am the absolute. I am the totality. I am that I am. What is only that. Everything is that. Somebody asks you who you are, you say I am Harry or Bill or Jane. You put that label on. And we've taken that conceptual image to be what we are. And function from that point. Not realising. Because we never pointed it out to them. We never understood it. And our parents never understood it. Or they would point it out. That you are the absolute. The totality. You can't add anything to the absolute. You can't take anything away from it. And if you understood that.

That it's all absolute. Then who could be superior to you? Could there be anybody or anything superior? And it'd have to be absolute. Not separate from the absolute. Or it wouldn't be absolute. We take it to believe we are this person. And we've separated ourselves into this human being. We call ourselves a human being. They are words we've picked up along the way. And then we can see. That there's something far greater than what this pattern, shape and form is. That's functioning in this manifestation. In all its shapes and forms and patterns. And we take it to be a higher power. Or a god. Something superior.

And so when we got that idea. We got the song. There's something other than what I am. That's when the sense of separation comes about. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity. And vulnerability. The capacity of reasoning develops. And we look out there and say well that doesn't fit I. That's not I. Or that's not me. So it's something other. And then we've got to have another look and try and work out what it is. And so we separated ourselves. And we see it that it's. Well I can handle that bit. So I'm superior to that. Well that one I'm not sure of. I can't.

And I'm inferior to that. So then I've taken a stance somewhere away from the totality. And fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, jealousy, envy. All these things can come up. And we're constantly reinforcing that sense of separation. That individuality. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only this me. We don't realise that. We don't realise that for a long time. We think that's a natural functioning to be unhappy, fearful, anxious or depressed. And they say nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. People have pointed it out and say it's the thinking. It's the cause. Of all these concepts. What happens. And have a look at it and investigate it.

What happens if you ask yourself what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. To do that I'd have to stop a thought for a while wouldn't I? Pause the thought or go without the thought. Or leave the thought as it is. Step over it. Step around it. And you realise it's true. It's the thinking. Putting the labels on it that makes it. Good, better or worse. Happy or unhappy. The Sarcophagus tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. What's that word imagination? Break it down to imagine. Imagine. And realise what am I doing? Well I'm creating conceptual images about everything.

As soon as you walk in the room I've got an image about you. What's done in the past? Were you somebody new or a bit curious? Somebody's been in before I've got the story about you that's there. An image. And about everything else formed a conceptual image. And that image in taking it in and believing it. Imagining the thing is seemingly real. And this one if I like it, it's good. I want more of it. If I don't like it, I'm fearful it's causing unhappiness or fear or sadness or whatever. Grief or whatever. The image is about it. But it's not recognised. It is only a conceptual or mental image.

A thought. A story. Made up of words, concepts. What's a word? What's a concept? A thought. A word. What's a word? A sound. What's a sound? A vibration. Just a movement of energy. A vibration of energy. Forming words. The words stick around for a little while and brings up a sensation. A feeling in the body. And that sensation kept there a little bit longer and become physical. And it upsets the body functioning. Causes the blood pressure to rise or the fear, the anger and the depression, the guilt to come in. Thought, feeling, emotion. The three aspects of the one thing. All believed from the belief in the thought.

So me is the cause of all those psychological problems that go on in this body. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only me that can be fearful relating it to this mental image. A concept. Only me that can be guilty, jealous of it. Me is the cause. Me being the cause, I've learnt these words. I wasn't born with any words. And if I ask myself that question, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What can I say without the word? Can I say it's good? Bad? Pleasant? Painful? Anything? And can I really say anything at all? Without a word?

Without a word or a concept, it would be like the animals or birds. I can make a noise, whistle, or screech or carry on. A sound which would be interpreted like it is with the animals. But I couldn't go into any long stories about this, that and the other. Bringing the past into the present. And the present into the imagination of the future. The stories carrying on. Everything would be just as it is. Natural, effortless, and spontaneous. Talk about it in the scriptures, they point out that it's non-duality. What they call non-duality. What does non-duality mean? It means one without a second. Not two. Not me and the other.

But one without a second. One without the other. Left in its natural oneness. Not divided. And that's what happens when we learn words. It's constantly dividing things. Because as Shakespeare told you 400 years ago, and he said, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. How does thinking function? Have a look. You're thinking that you're either in the past or present. Past or future. And it's either good or bad. Pleasant or painful. Happy, sad. High, low, near and far. Loving, hating. You'll see it's all dividing. The word is constantly dividing. The pairs of opposites. And so we get caught in it. The thought comes up.

This I. The sense of presence which translates into the thought I. And we believe the thought I is the person, the reality. And the saga later will tell you that the person is not reality. Just a conceptual image. But we've taken it to be the reality. So this person takes on all these patterns and shuffles them. Accordingly. It's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be angry or jealous or envious. Me is the cause of all this psychological suffering. Now, the anger, the fear, the jealousy and the envy, they're the effects of the cause. Because when those effects are there, it's upsetting.

It's causing all the unhappiness. If me is the cause and now are the effects of the cause, isn't it what they call so-called karma? Cause and effect. But have a look. And if I see that the me, the conditioned belief that there is a me, a separate entity, is a fiction. Doesn't really exist. What can I relate to? Without a me. Can there be any effect if it's not related to the cause, me? So if it's not related to the cause, the effects must drop away. And this manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. But we're constantly relating. What happens if we stop relating? And now you see that change going on without relating.

Because that word relating. What's it mean? Relative to. What's relative to something? It means something against the other. A relationship. Where there's nothing relative at all in any of it. So right before your very eyes, it seems to be relative. It always has. And it always will. Until it's questioned. And recognised. You'll be locked into it all your life. But something we start off, and then we start to believe there's got to be something more to this. And we've got all these scriptures and things that people have formed over the years. Given us rules to live by. And conditions in which to live. Instead of not realising what Moses on the mountain, when he had to take the message back to the people.

And form the tablets, the commandments. I'll take these back. And get them to live by these. That'll make them right. But then he says, he thought, well, I've got to tell them something. And they won't take much notice of me. What can I tell them? And it dawned on him there and then. Well tell them, I am sent you. And he realised, well I am that I am. He realised his true nature. The I am, was going to take the message back to, wasn't the person. Wasn't the individual. It was that true nature. The relative, the actual pure intelligence entity. The absolute. And that's what needs to happen.

He recognised the same as that was recognised there. That I am already that I am. That is all there is. That is all there will be. Not two. Only the one. And have a look at it. When you question that I am-ness. It's not going to stay with the I am-ness. And others will tell you, question it. See what, who am I? What is this I am-ness? Have a look and see. I am is the constant. I am is the concept. It's a thought. And what's it represent? It represents that sense of presence. There's a knowing there right now with each and everyone of you.

That I am. You don't have to start it up or kick it up. Kick it off. It's already there presently. I am that. Already. But instead, what have we done? We're putting it on the conceptual image. I am Bob, the Australian. The good fellow. And I'm not good enough. I'm fearful. I'm anxious. That's separate entity. I need to become something. I've got to try and become. Not realising that being can never ever become. Because becoming implies a future time. And when I investigate the concept of time. And realise there's no such thing as time. There's no past unless I think about it. And there's no future unless I anticipate and imagine it.

I can't become anything. But can I negate the beingness? Well investigate that and see whether you can. Can you tell me you are not being right now? You call yourself a human being. But if you take that word human off. Take the word supreme off. Try and separate the beingness. And realise you can't negate your beingness. That you are already everything. And only and ever that. So that I am that I am. Takes on a different term. Different meaning. There's a certainty. And a resignation. And a recognition. In knowing that I am. Not the person. Not the individual. Though it's been reinforced. From the time I learnt words at about two and a half.

Right up to when it is ever recognised. In the seeing through it. The stabilisation. It'll grow and it'll stabilise in you. And the old thinking patterns. Will die down. But they're habitual. And they've been reinforced day in day out. By our schools. Our society. And everybody around us. And we take them to be real. So we can caught. Get caught in them. For a while. Out of habit. But the more it's recognised. And every time it's seen through. It's going to grow. More steadily. The knowing and the intelligence that you are. In you. You're going to resonate more. Soundly and securely. Until. It'll come. You'll know for certain.

And absolutely. That that is all there is. And see what happens then. See where that takes you. Take it. And what. Can happen. Through that pattern. And letting it. That's about. What all the spills about. So. Some of you are recognising it. And knowing it. You can mouth it. Let it out. Others might hear it. Because there's different. Words to what I've said here. In a clearer way. Or whatever. Or the same way. But it's reinforcing this. And others. Might have questions. But it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not.

It's not. It's not. Well if you do. You're pointing to look into this. And it brought a look at us. Must have been for a reason. Must have been. If you haven't been satisfied. With the way it was. It might help. If you ask your question. And bring your doubts out. And see. And that's what we're all about. So away you go. I think you've appointed other people to speak. No. That . You wanted other people to speak. It's fine. . And now you're asking questions from. Of course I was. I think people have to. Do you have a question? I've been asked. I've been asked a question.

I'm putting them here. Okay, so I'll read the comments then. There's a few of good morning messages and then welcome everyone and everyone who is online with us. And we have a question from Tanya. Could it be that focusing on one particular habit pattern of thoughts keeps it there? How do we separate the fact, reality, from the fiction? How do you see what is really here? How do you recognize non-duality? Lots of questions today. I notice thought is always narrating what is happening, but what it has known, but what is, has no narration. Could the truth be just what is without the words? Yes. It's attaching to thoughts.

It's to perpetuate the story. Keep the story long. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? You can't say anything is right or wrong, but you haven't stopped breathing. Your heart hasn't stopped breathing. And without a thought, can you say it's fearful or anxious or depressed at all? You can't. So without the word, you're prior to the word then. Get the taste of that and see what happens. And when the word does come up, realize it's a word. And when the word does come up, realize it's a word. And when the word does come up, realize it's not separate. It's the word, both either good or bad, pleasant or painful, whichever way it functions.

It's still the one essence, the one expression. So even without the thought, you're home and host. Recognize it. And we have a couple of people answering that. Martin says, like Bob has said before, it's the mind that seemingly separates the self. And he also says, the mind is the mind that separates the self. And he also says, the minds or sounds appearing seemingly make it appear to be dual. And Tanya says, thank you, Martin. Need to pay less attention to the thought-mind as they aren't truthful, or a reliable source of information, it seems. And the truth probably has to be defined a little bit better, because for the sake of non-duality, we're talking about ultimate truth.

We're not talking about the relative truth. Like we can say, okay, it's Sunday today. That's relatively true for the people here. But there are people in America who are watching it, that's not Sunday, it's Saturday, isn't it? So that's not the ultimate truth. Ultimate truth is that which applies always and ever, through time, timelessly, really. So that can't be a thought which carries that timeless truth. So the ultimate truth is non-conceptual. Has to be. There's no thought that never changes. Thought even starts and ends, seemingly. So information you can get from thought, by all means. But that will be information about whatever, nutrition, belief, geography, whatever.

But the ultimate truth does not contain information per se. Like information is bits or bytes of some energy, which is almost, you could say, a thing. It's a material. It almost has the physical material quality. So again, it is also accumulative. It's not ultimate. It's not timeless. I'm sure you know it. I'm just clarifying for the unification of the vocabulary. And Jay says, tat famasi, do art dat. That was when you were talking about I am that I am. Do art dat. Of course. When I'm speaking about my direct experience, I can't say you because there's no you. You are a reflection of that I am.

But when I'm pointing it out to you, there is no I. There is only you. So that's, you do art dat. You are that. And Martin commenting to Tanya's thank you message. Tanya, just notice how they appear to make the one seemingly appear as the other. Tanya and Martin. Nice one. Good point, Martin, says Tanya. And she says, thank you both. You said information before. Have a look at that word. Informing. Forming inside. Yeah. Inform. Something that formulates. Something that's not formless anymore. Yes. So we are on with the online comments. Please. Participate now. Just let us know who's going to speak. Dean will have a mic and we'll get into it.

Oh, Jane. What just kept coming up for me was there's nothing wrong with thoughts. It's the fixation on the thoughts that is the problem. Thoughts are going to come and go like clouds in the sky. But it's the fixation on them that creates the dis-ease or conflict. So, yeah, that's just what kept coming up for me. Great point. Thank you for highlighting that. I love that you pointed that out because when I hear the expression, full stop, there seems to be a never again. There's no attention. Never again. There's a full stop. That's like never again. Done. Never. And he was saying this morning, yeah, the full stop is the end of the sentence.

And I'm like, what? What? What? No more sentence. You're free. You're out of jail. No more sentence. The sentence is over. It's been served. Full stop. And so, yeah. Tension doesn't go to the thought is what you're saying. Maybe it was there a once and for all, because I remember one time you said something that was like, whew! Now. It's only now. Yes. Okay. It doesn't have to word. The ever again is in thought. Yeah. Okay. That doesn't exist. No. It's only this. So if it happens again, because it's like, wait a minute, but five seconds ago, I was attending. Oh, no, it's now. I don't know what else to say.

That's beautiful. That's brilliant. Yeah, thank you. Anyone like to comment or add something? No? Dean? No? No? Oh, so do I. My mind is here, and then my senses and my body is this side, and the divine consciousness is on this side. So how do I destroy my mind? Because when I destroy my mind, I know I will destroy my senses and my body. And how do I destroy my mind in order to be in the divine? Divine consciousness. Who wants to destroy the mind? Because the mind is pulling me to the senses and my body. So my mind is like my enemy. So I can't see the mind, but I want to bring my mind to the divine consciousness.

Merge in the divine consciousness so that my senses are destroyed, my body is destroyed, and I'm... But who is the one who asked the question? Isn't that the mind? The mind. The mind is there. So the mind wants to destroy the mind, right? How can mind destroy the mind? How can thought destroy the thought? Because the mind is there, and I want to bring it to the divine consciousness. Merge in there so that I don't focus on my senses and my body. But when you say I... want to bring mind who wants to bring who is there two of you one is the mind and one is you who is the you and who is the mind see if there are really two things if the desire to change the mind or to get rid of the mind isn't just another thought formation you know like you desire some people desire to be wealthy or famous or young and smart and some people desire to have quiet mind or to be enlightened see how the desire whether it is a noble desire to be free and happy or whether it is materialistic desire I want to have big mansion and million dollars they are still the same thought formation so there is a consciousness open field of awareness and the desire for minds to be quiet or for million dollars or for boyfriend anything there is is just a movement of the mind the desire to quieten the mind is also the mind so when you see them both it's a noble desire and and have to acknowledge that this is the calling of your heart you want that destroyer that enemy that destruction that dark clouds to just not be there because you love the self out of that love for the self you don't want that shiny radiant sun like self to be obscured by the clouds that's beautiful that the longing for the truth longing for the for the love of being is beautiful but that longing itself is a problem because you are that self you only think you are not but i don't recognize it i still haven't recognized it are you unaware right now i am you're aware i am aware that is the divinity of it that is the light everything appears on that and you can't destroy that but recognize that that is there and what appears on it comes and goes and what comes and goes cannot be you.

So instead of fixating on it and keeping it there, relax and let it be. What's that divinity doing right now? It's breathing you. You're not concerned with your breath. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's causing the thoughts to arise, the thoughts to appear. So why is the need to destroy them? Recognise them for what they are. But I can't recognise it. I want to recognise it but I'm not recognising it. I'm trying to let it go. Are you unaware? I'm aware. So that's the cognising emptiness. How could you say nothing is going on if that awareness wasn't there? It's that simple that we miss it.

So you must be aware. Now you couldn't have a single thought you couldn't take a breath. You couldn't do anything. We're trying to destroy something that's a fiction anyway. Stay with the sense of presence, the I am-ness, the awareness of presence. Leave it as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. And it'll change what your next thought's going to be. You don't know. Thoughts come up, thinking happens, breathing happens, heart. There's a lot going on. But when we're taking delivery of it as separate, getting locked into it, we're beating ourselves up with the word. Leave everything as it is. What's the earth doing about rolling around the sun?

Is the sun doing anything about it? It's not. Is the earth going about saying I've got to roll? It doesn't. It's bringing the floods to some places, fire somewhere else, seasons coming and going. Doing it all naturally, effortlessly. And it's the same with you. But we ignore it. We ignore that divinity that you're talking about. That's there first. And that, recognise that. Let it be heartfelt. Sense the warmth and joy that's there within you. If you're not obscuring it by conscience. Just open up. Also, when you actually, when you are relaxed, can you see the difference? You know, when the mind, as you say, it is an enemy, it is obscuring, it is bringing up senses and making all the obstruction for that awareness of presence.

When you resent that mind, when you hate that mind, when you want it to just go. Is that awareness of presence more shining then? Or is it less? Comparing to the state when you're just like basking in the sun, resting. You just see the moments when the mind is most relaxed is the moment when you, the body, the environment, the everything is relaxed and open. So the way to that more kind of clarity of being, is through relaxation, not through the destruction. Destroying the mind as much as you have really beautiful loving cause for that resentment. Because you suffer and you want to be free.

You're sick of that obstructions. And that's, I totally relate to it because I've been there for many, many years. And thank you for bringing it up because a lot of people is in there in many, many years. And as much as it may feel counterintuitive, Luja, you muster all of your strength. You want it to be done with that nonsense once and for good. You want to do anything it takes. Unfortunately, you are not the doer. So the only way out of that contraction is relaxation. And like Bob says, find the warmth, find the openness. You can't really do the warmth or openness. You can find them already here because always, no matter how rough is the day.

You can find them here. You can find them here. You can find them in the storm on the surface. There is always also that stillness present. So it is really relaxing into that stillness, finding it already being present. You can't manufacture it. You can only relax into it and find that it is already so. Space is already present. No matter how much we will fill the room with objects or mind space is also already present, empty. We can fill it with thoughts. But space is always also there. And it is really about relaxing out of the focusing on objects and resonating with that space-like quality which is who we are.

Yeah, I think what has been helpful here is to say that when there is any conflict at all, it is duality. Because, you know, we are all in this together. We are all in this together. Because all conflict arises when the mind, or the me rather, thinks it is separate. And then there is another person, place or thing that can be, you know, a conflict with a person. A thing could be, you know, another thought. That is when the conflict arises. So what is that appearing upon? That is appearing on that presence that you are. You say you want to destroy the mind. Well, as Kat rightly said, that is one part of the mind trying to destroy another part of the mind.

And what that does is it perpetuates the story of me and the other-thing. In this case it is a thing. You want to destroy, you know, the mind and be, you know, and have, you are the divinity. You know. That is never happening. Yeah. gone you are that presence or divinity or whatever name you want to put on it so so all the conflicts are happening as Kat said on the surface you know of that presence that you are or that beingness as Bob says so whenever there's a conflict it's duality and are you that are you the narrator you know the mind is always gonna narrate as I said it's the fixation on the me wanting to do something and the me is only a memory it's not who you really are you know the memory of yourself can only live in the past or the future and the narrator can only work or the narration rather can only work in the past in the future you know it's duality pleasure pain happy sad desire fear as Bob said.

said, you know. So that's just what the mind does. It's always going to do that. It's the fixation on it that's the problem. Yeah. Hope that helps. Just a matter of detaching from it. See, when you attach to all these things, the more you let go of, the lighter it becomes. And just cut something and relax into it. When you attach to all this rubbish, you're not relaxing into it at all. Like you're walking along in the mud, you'll collect mud under your shoes. Pretty heavy with a lot of mud on it. Let the mud, wipe the mud off and you're a lot lighter, a lot more clarity.

When you attach to all these concepts, thoughts and ideas, fixate on them, keep them there. Detach. Let them be. Relax. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. Simple as that. Subtitles by the Amara.org community The mind is in fact only limited to this particular thought. There's nothing else to the mind except this thought. But with this thought of me related to something else comes the whole universe. But that's a useful tool to have, just to locate yourself, to be able to locate yourself in time. But supposedly in time. So you won't get eaten by a tiger or something. But in order to just... To describe who you are, it doesn't work, does it?

So you have to bring... The search for the solution has to come from a place which is true. So you don't ever use the mind in its ranging thoughts. You're wondering all the time, how are you going to do that? How am I going to do that? What effect is it going to have? This is all the speculation of mind anyway. As everybody else has said, when you look for the solution, look in the place where the solution is. And that's where the solution is going to be, which is in the present moment, isn't it? Or in consciousness, or come into the recognition that you are a thinker of thoughts and not thoughts themselves.

And yeah, I've lost my thought because of that. Do you have a question, Tristan? Thanks for sharing, because I really relate to what you were saying. And I was thinking about the... I think it's the same thing, in a way. So yeah, I was just thinking, like, it's very counterintuitive, because in life, you know, something hurts us, we pull away. Or we want something, we're hungry, we find something to eat. You know, it's like grabbing something or pull away from something. And that's difficult to... Just pick it up. It's like a habit. So when you feel this, or what you were describing, I think... It's your instinct is like, go away.

Like, we either fight it, like you were saying, I want to destroy it, or I want it away from me. And that's kind of our mind. Only two solutions. So, but yeah, whether you fight it or whether you run away from it, it seems to make it stronger either way. And I think... I think the only ways is to be with it, to be there. And yeah, not push with the mind or come away or not even do that. Yeah, it's very hard to... So I feel like... I just definitely relate to what you're saying. And the other thing that I thought was just there's this thing called the Chinese finger trap.

Have you ever seen one of those? So it's like a little net with... Like a tube. It's woven. So when you put your fingers in it, you put your fingers in, but then you suddenly think, oh, I don't... I've got things to do. I need to pull them apart. As soon as you pull them apart, it grabs tighter and you can't escape. So the more you do it, you can't get out. So the only way to get out is to actually bring your fingers together. And that just somehow, in my mind, I was thinking like, yeah, you can't... You sort of like relax into it.

It was what I was thinking of. Mm-hmm. But it's like just a physical little toy that can illustrate that a little bit. Yeah. It's... Yeah. It's counter-intuitive. Yeah, it's counter-intuitive because you have everything in it. You know, like, oh, I've got to pull my hands out. So I put them in. Yeah. But you sort of do that. Yeah. God shouting, save me, save me. Yeah. Yeah. I think most people in this room have probably felt this at a point in time. And if you reflect on your life... Mm-hmm. when you were a child did you feel like this probably not right and then you went through a period of time where you just lived and life brought you maybe into this work and then all of a sudden this feeling came up but that's all changing right and so this too will change and this too is like a part of that one life process so just it's neither good nor bad right just sit with that feeling of trying to destroy the mind maybe even really try to destroy the mind and see what happens right and and you know it'll just do what it's going to do there's no there's no you that has any free will anyway right so just recognize that and it will change it most definitely will change and what remains after that change and you you won't change it because there is no you you can't do anything because there is no you so what happens is the truth eats away the lie or that presence eats away the lie you know so you don't have to do anything just watch and connect also with that you know with that motivation for this feeling because it is beautiful I mean you know it comes from the place of longing for that completeness fulfillment it comes from the place of your own love for your infinite self so it is if you actually recognize that all the frustration comes just from that and you recognize that there is love behind it and then ah he just resting their love and you appreciate this is just another way love manifest itself it's hard to believe when you are in the beats of anger and despair and frustration it's hard to believe that every movement of life is really movement of love but that's that's what Nissan Kadata said in news one of his most beautiful one-liners and that's really what every sage and seer Jesus and others recognized and you can recognize it and know it directly there is call for love is also a way love is making itself obvious and known and putting itself in the center it is the call for love is knowing love and calling for it otherwise you know there would be no longing and I have another couple of comments from people who are with us Rosa says yes it is that simple that we miss it and she puts a love heart and Jai says you don't need to do anything but observe you cannot destroy the sky but you can observe the clouds come and go yeah this is beautiful you cannot destroy the sky I love it thank you and Bill says openness is the way love is making itself obvious and knowing love is knowing love is full of light one simple changeless absolutes this is what we always are only one of us yeah done deep underneath that turmoil is that still open field and that you are it's just attention being trapped in the diversity of that expressions and yes leaving it added as this and letting it be because see both is operating his mind functions just as everybody's mind i mean he's the thoughts are coming up memories are coming up all of it is functioning sometimes i see he's gazing somewhere in afar and i say where have you been and he says oh there was a childhood memory of my sister oh how sweet you know it just comes up nobody needs to destroy it it doesn't have to go away when it is it's just like a it's a beauty it's a kiss it's it comes and goes but because the mind doesn't fixate on it it just floats through like a sky like a cloud on the sky and it moves on because he doesn't have any opinion oh it should be there or it shouldn't be there i want it there i don't want it there because there's no i so in that sky that open field things may come up and go away and this is the freedom when you are that space like awareness doesn't matter what shows up there may be unpleasant sensation there may be pain maybe dreadful memory maybe angry thought but it doesn't matter because they just they just move like through the sky and rosa says let it be heartfelt and another love heart beautiful and good morning to all says vivek and rosa and the light of the self shines through the mind md because we are looking outwardly we focus on the objects and martin there is no one that can recognize the truth there is simply recognizing happening the thought i haven't recognized the truth yet or i need to destroy my mind it's not you because as the thought appears it also leaves you but you remain brilliant beautifully said see yes that's a great point the the longing for love that i thought that i want to do anything everything i'll die for it i'll do absolutely anything that i before that thought came up the the being is present and when that thought is gone being is present so obviously that is just a visitor passing visitor that you the guests that you don't have to serve the cup of tea and entertain it's just ignore them it's not that i thought and um i love how you really responded when when someone said you know when you were a little child um everything was just beautiful right well that that's that's who you are yes you know and that's what jesus said become like a little child uh he didn't mean you know be childish he meant you know childlike awareness you know and yet that resonated with you that you really felt that i could sense it you know that's who you are come back to that you're gonna speak now andy you have a mic slowly slowly it's the the the the thing of um of love you know acceptance is to to not see anything as an enemy you know that you you just allow understandable if outside i present to you you know it's not just a a natural i'm going to accept whatever arised to arise and welcome it right you know this is this is a thought coming through yeah there's a beautiful poem by um rimi on that you know where rimi talks about the unwelcome guest you know coming in and and if you rather view all thoughts coming through because they just guess coming through in into this you know infinite house of your life life a healing where love is permitted to just radiate everywhere and everything is included.

There's nothing that's shut out, nothing that's an enemy, nothing that you're in an adversarial relationship with. It collapses in the non-duality of being. So, welcome. Everything. This being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival. A dark thought and meanness. Greet them at the door. Welcome them in. Even if they're here to clean your house of all of its furniture and destroy everything, welcome it. It may be clearing you for some new delight. I don't know. I don't know if I remember it well, but it's like for the most part, I love that. It's a a I think Ramana Maharshi said, let what comes come and let what goes go.

And if I'm letting like, all right, so dammit, there's this attention to thoughts and I'm like, I don't want to be attending to thoughts. Now I'm attending to the fact that I don't want to attend. I don't like that I don't like that I don't like. Okay. And what if I, what if I'm not going to be attending to thoughts? Instead of trying to fix it. Or resist it, which makes it what persist. I think Carl Jung nailed that. What you resist, persist. If I'm instead of being in resistance to it, it's allowed to come and it's allowed to go. And it can all be.

I had a couple of comment, like people that is one from Keith. He says no indulgence in preferences. that's a nice inspirational thought the preferences will arise but don't indulge in them because that's what keep them longer and Zuma says be long instead of belong belong and keep don't try to choose which thoughts you will allow yourself to have yeah that's a great point that's what Andy was saying in Julia either love them all or love none of it or ignore all of it but just don't discriminate because the moment you say oh this is a loving thought this is not loving thought according to who who is the judge there now you have the reference point again this is good this is bad this is pleasant this is painful and welcome back to hell so as Nisa Gerada says the dream is not your problem your problem is that you love one part of it and not the other you love one thought and not the other love them all or none of it it doesn't really matter whether you love all of none of it so long as there is no discrimination of what's allowed what's not allowed so thank you Keith that's a good point don't choose which thoughts you will allow yourself to have because that means there is a chooser or choice maker and Biden says how about putting lipstick on a pig yes faking it we have been in all our lives yeah that's funny but I don't quite understand I don't know if anyone understands putting lipstick on a pig faking we have been in all our life that one which fakes anything is not the true self everything is true in its essence but not in how it appears if you happen to be an actor or fake things that's just the costume that's just the expression but the source the source of life which causes pigs lipsticks and and and faking is who you are not the expression no I was like thinking about what you like you mentioned the word heaven well welcome back to hell right and what is that sing-sing Ming you know it's a hold no hold no hold no hold no opinion for or against okay so it's like if he said when there's neither love nor hate when they're both absent clear and undisguised make the slightest distinction however in heaven and earth are drawn infinitely apart so another quote I once heard about heaven and hell that I really liked was heaven is an acceptance of what is or this moment as it is and hell is wanting it to be a political aspect of something that's almost like a biblical reveal of what we've learned that doesn't mean anything else is something that's supposed to be anything else but another way to say the same thing at least about heaven let you go to the biblical ideas of heaven and hell they pick they put where do they put health it's in form isn't it it's like down in the center of form the earth it's right there in form okay in form making it in form and then in happen where are we we're in space aren't somewhere up there I go not here it's it's space or whatever so this this heaven is is I is the space like being or awareness that that is and when we're in hell we are informed in the thought and and there is none it's all bullshit anyway but you can see it how I think how come from old English word held off build a fence around fenced off the infinity and we have Keith says those are all preferences wanting to choose you imagine ink you can choose absolutely comes from opposition of two ideas to doesn't it one idea opposed to another which are both untrue the biggest and most deeply ingrained idea is that that me is separate you human being having skills from the anger and we can have a much more matter yummy the and that it has any power whatsoever that's how and that's how when you're in hopeless for this so-called me because I'm just really nothing you can do in any way the more it tries and thinks or there's a little fragment of a belief that it's possible to merge or the transcend or to forget it you might get a really good trippy experience or something like that and then and then you think you're on the right track and then you engage more and it's just like endless games but like but there's like there's a message like we're all here and says this message that Bob says so clearly about everything that you've said Bob like there's a and there's a resignation resonate resonance there's a vibrational frequency there's this energy right and any fuse pay more attention oh it's not even about attention it just it resonates or it doesn't and often if you called in all the mind shit you it might miss it but when it resonates that's it that's the end of the story like that there's no tactics or ways to go about doing anything because the resignation is and that's that that's that's the heartfelt you know people that's saying heart and love and and to me it's just that resonance it's like a frequency almost and and you somehow you tune to be can't choose between the two to tune into it shut up a little bit and and and it tunes itself and Bob's like the tuning fork and I have Keith says hell is imagining you are responsible for the choice imagining you are a separate individual who can make a choice absolutely see the consequences you know if I make the choice I can make the wrong choice and I can screw my life and everything can go bananas and and and the whole idea of responsibility and choices no I'd like to like the topic of heaven and hell you another thing Bob's pointed out in the past is just about Adam and Eve they were in heaven they were in Paradise until they started to well I I think that it's interesting, if you go back to the story, in the story, God knew that they had dined from the tree of knowing good and evil.

The pairs of opposites. When it was seen, they're suddenly covering up with fig leaves. It's though the naked body is good or evil. I like something I saw, though. This is irrelevant, kind of, but it's funny. Somebody had posted a meme on a Cosmic Joke Facebook group or whatever, where Adam is being the first attorney, and he says, Well, in all fairness, how could I have known that it was evil to disobey God if I hadn't eaten from the tree of good and evil? Good point. Fair enough. I don't know. Well, a mumen in its unicity can't know itself. That's why there's... That's it. That's it.

That's it. Okay. Keith also says, now, there is only paradise until we imagined otherwise. I'd just like to say, I'm the most confused one out of everyone here, and I'm the least enlightened. The most confused and the least enlightened. All the depth of human confusion possible, I feel I have. I'm covered. I mean, felt. And so, I have nothing, no wisdom to offer here. But I am deeply appreciative. There's a lot of faces here who I love dearly. And by extension, I love everyone in this room. Because it's just that. And, yeah, so, thank you. Beautiful. George. Oh. Thanks, yeah. What can you say about any of that without the concept?

Yeah. Without the concept. What can you say about any of that without a concept? Oh, yeah. You're not confused without the concept. You're not unenlightened without the concept and we do dearly love you too. And I love the humility in which you don't claim any of the wisdom. That's really, really nice. because really it is about unknowing. Bob and I, we don't know shit. We can watch the YouTube and get some information about one thing or the other, but that's not ultimate truth. Speak for yourself. We know that we are. That we know. Move over, George. Am I going to the corner? Okay, so... I was just going to make the...

or say my observation that I thought was interesting how after Bob finished talking in the beginning, no one really had anything to say and you offered to say something and it sparked a chain of conversation. It's like everyone's had something to say now. I thought that was interesting. And I thought it was courageous of you to say that from... from your position because it may be like some other people with maybe feeling the same way, but we didn't want to say it. Or, you know, but to say the way that you were feeling, it just created all of this... this... this communication for everyone. And I also wanted to say I really liked what you said about the I lives in the memory.

The me. Yeah, the me lives in the memory. I've never... I've never thought of that before about the way that there's the present and the past. Sorry, the past and the future, which are duality. I've never thought of it like that. And the present is where there's no memory, really. Like if you're thinking... Well, you're not even thinking. If it is in the present moment, you know, you're listening or you're doing whatever you're doing, you're not really thinking like... You're sensing, yeah. Yeah. Every time you think about like... Are they judging me or I have to do something properly? You're thinking about I'm going to do it in the future or I'm going to do it so...

I appreciate the past. Like either way, it's like time... Bound. Bound, yeah. I thought that was interesting. Anyway, that's all. Beautiful. That's what's so precious about that community that sometimes, you know, Bob wipes off everyone and then suddenly we have... a question coming up and then everybody contributes. And Bob also often says that, you know, that me is the past, that me is the memory. But sometimes you need someone else to say it who will be, let's say, kinesthetically saying it more than... And then it clicks. It resonates. This is the... Because we often have people coming to the groups who would only want to listen to Bob.

Anyone else, they would just be... How dare they speak. Yeah. This is really about opening up and relaxing more and more to the point that everyone assists everyone because there is only one, really. There's only that one life speaking. Through you, through Jane, through Saroja, everyone is really just that dance of energy moving. And it is just so lovely. Thank you for highlighting it. That you actually heard someone from the participants, not from Bob, because that's what he always... That's why the format of the meeting, it has been done this way because it has proven in the past. And I have been in that position as well where I could hear people who were...

Jane has very long-standing clarity. But I could hear things from the newbie who had no idea, but just putting in a different word what he heard from Bob. And that clicked. There's nothing impossible for that one life. And what Bob always says is now you're speaking in one voice now. You know? So you're speaking from... You're speaking from here. You know? And that's what I love. And what I love about this group more than anything else is that very fact that Bob welcomes us all to speak. And if you have any questions, if you have anything you want to share, you know, it's unique to this group.

Very. Yeah, it's a very unique group. So thank you for sharing. And what's passed on gets passed through then. Yeah. And that's... That's a beautiful, beautiful feeling, isn't it? You feel it. It's not up here. It's here. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. I'm speaking from hell. It's up here. It's down there. It's in the middle. It's everywhere. It's here and now. And the best suggestion is to leave things as they are. And my best recognition is I can't. I can't leave things as they are. I can't get into things. I can't do anything. I can't not do anything. And the current report of the situation is hell.

It'll be... Change the sense of the... It'll be something else because it's constantly changing. It'll be changing. It is changing. It's not that it'll be changing. But since I started to speak, it's similar. It's still hell. I mean, the message that comes from this community is necessary, but to so-called me is also urgent. So... And it's not urgent. I'm just speaking this way because I think I'm in hell. Next... Next time, it'll be different. And... Because... I know for a fact that the... That my background interest is this. Not... I'm not saying community or non-duality. It's this. Being effortless. Nothing. Empty. Full. Nothing. Everything. I think the reason that you're in hell is because you're still the architect of your own fate.

You're still the master. You... You're still trying to be your own teacher. If you, just for a moment, just... gave up and let... and let Bob take over or... Dean or somebody... just, uh... guide you a little bit and really listen rather than continue to be the architect of your own fate. Be... Yeah, but your own teacher. But the problem is, my man, I love you. I totally love you. You know, you... You're fine. You're... You're perfect. Yes. I can see you right now. Did you get my meaning? No. No. Okay. No. No. No. No. I'm gonna give it a shot. You're a ten-pounder, right?

Oh. It's just a shot. But I think Jane said something right after you'd spoken. And... And she's like, you can't be in hell in this moment, in this nanosecond. Like, like... Because, like, well, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? And if you're in hell, you've got thoughts. It's kind of your influence. It's kind of your inform, right? You're attending a lot to the thoughts and you're buying a lot into the thoughts. And you're really like, no, not thought. No, I've got thoughts about my thoughts about my thoughts now. I'm really thinking and I'm resisting. You're resisting. And you're like, not this.

So how... Here's this... Don't take it the wrong way, okay? Go to hell. Okay? Go there. And allowing the hell. Turning up the volume of the heat and just allow... But don't... You know, just allowing yourself to stay with this hell for a moment. Welcoming the hell. That's what I meant by that. Okay? If you're allowing the hell, does that make sense? Then you're not in hell. You're with what is. And it's okay. Does that make any sense? Or does that... How does that do what I think? If you can embrace this, welcoming, like we were saying earlier about the Rumi poem, the guest house.

You were the awareness. Not the contents of it. Right? So if you're seeing that hell is happening, okay? And you just say, oh, look at that. Oh. And you let it be. Yeah. It'll just be. And let it be as it is. And then, yeah, it will pass. This too shall come to pass. There's a story somebody once said to me when I was in hell. Okay? It's... I like this story. It's a story of a great king. He was very popular in India. He was a great king. He was a great king. He was a great king. He was a great king. He was a great king.

He was popular in his kingdom. And, you know, they wanted to give him a gift. But what do you give the guy who's got everything? So they decided to give him this, like, special ring that had a locket in it. But they were... He was advised, you must never open the locket unless you're... It's like, no way the other way out or whatever of a situation. And so he goes on through life and goes to the wars and finally comes to this one war where, like, all of his soldiers and everybody working for him has been killed. And now he's ducking into a... a cave.

And he's watching the approaching army and they're coming after... They're just coming by. And he's... He figures this is the time, you know, to open the locket. And it says, and this too shall come to pass. I just like that story. This is... You know, because this... This is just what's coming and going because you've had moments of heaven. You said that. Right? And that's... I think when we're in heaven, we're just... What is this final moment? What is this final moment? You're mine. Whatever's showing up is OK. We don't give a shit, right? That's heaven, being OK with what is. And so you're thinking that maybe by your resistance you're going to be able to shift it and change it, but if anything, it's gluey.

OK, I'm sorry. But that's what I think when I'm in hell and I'm in resistance, that's what I think. I apologize. But anyway, I don't know if that helped you at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stand so you can see each other. so this discussion of heaven and hell is interesting um but so what if you're in heaven or hell like they're gonna happen life is gonna beat you down sometimes adversity is gonna happen right so at times it'll be i think hell is synonymous with pain right when someone says i'm in hell i'm experiencing a lot of pain when i'm in heaven or feeling good you know and life will constantly oscillate between these two that's right so who is that happening to who is aware exactly right because that too is a part of the one right it's that natural it's that proclivity i don't want to be in hell and that too is fine and i want to be in heaven and that too is fine but if you can just get a little bit of space between the one that notices they're in hell or heaven right and the one that believes they're there you can start to see that the believer is not you right so you'll start to see that life is an oscillation and then all of a sudden the oscillation becomes one right and that's the ecstatic part of life it's not the pleasure and the pain they will come but the ecstatic element is realizing that they are playing on the screen of the oneness of the one consciousness and so right now let the pain get you to that point sometimes it comes to the point where you feel like you're going to crack right and that's the point of a breakthrough right there so the pain can open you up even more and then you experience the pleasure and then pain will come and allow it to open you more it's a constant dynamic process right so go to hell all right and so just that little bit of space just just when you're watching it go inward just get a little bit of space on it all right spaciousness between the witness and the one experiencing just a little bit of spaciousness and that will develop over time one of the psalms i forget which one's i where shall i fit flee from my presence if i take the wings of the morning and fly to the outermost past of the sea thou art with me wherever i go so it doesn't matter where you are what you are that life essence is still there can i can i say something my mum was a poet my mum was a poet and um her one of her favorite poets was francis thompson there's a poem called the old man who did the good woman of monochrome it's a great poem but it's a great poem to read it's a great song to read it's a great song to read it's a great song to read a part of a poem called The Hound of Heaven.

I fled him down the nights and down the days, I fled him down the arches of the years, I fled him down the labyrinth and ways of my own mind, and in the midst of tears I hid from him. Bob probably knows the rest. I've forgotten it. Yeah, we're finishing up on a couple of things. Yeah, I just want to say thank you for sharing. To be very vulnerable, it's a gift. No matter how bad it looks, at that time you were sharing your truth. At that time, not the truth, but it was very clear. Yeah, let's stop talking about it. Yeah, and I just wanted to make crystal clear that hopefully I said that didn't come across everyone there.

Oh, sounds like you're not happy with hell. You want to move on. Yeah, I do actually love what you said, Haman, because that's crucial, that you're learning a lot in the process, because that's, you are obviously observing what's going on, so the part of awareness is actually clear to see the hell and to see what's happening in the world. Just in practice, I hope that I keep my physical body intact until the end. Amen, amen to that. Yes, amen. I hope and wish you that with all of my heart. And we have a couple more comments, because we already have a few minutes over time.

And Keith says, hell isn't bad since you are just imagining it. Jai says, if you are depressed, you live in the past. If you are anxious, you live in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. Martin says, the thoughts are cyclical. They attempt to explain and point to the truth. Then they are without thoughts. And then thoughts appear again to point to the truth. What's funny is there is nothing to point to, and we have nothing to share with each other. Quote from our Mano Maharshi, silence is the highest teaching. Beautiful. And then at the same time, that silence sings, that silence expresses.

And as we heard, we assisting each other lovingly here, there was a pointers to us. And then we have a quote from our Mano Maharshi, and then we have a quote from our Mano Maharshi, and then we have a quote from our Mano Maharshi. But also a great pointers to us. You said yourself, Heyman, leave it as it is. Great pointers. Somebody else highlighted relax. Somebody else said, James said, make a space around it. All those things, life uses to facilitate the movement of energy because none of us does anything whatsoever. Nobody gives the pointer. Nobody responds to them. It's just by resonating, the whole energy flows.

And that's how it dances and we can appreciate it or depreciate it. if you see the beauty it is easy to love it and jay says oh we read that and now we have ram it is that divinity that you are that enables thoughts to even arise in the first place how many thoughts can corpse have he quotes sailor bob attention is everything where is the attention going when the attention is directed towards this story of me divinity all god becomes another character in the story that was a brilliant point thank you ram and keith oh that we read uh keith says hell isn't bad since you're just imagining it is just a word jb says the harder you try to get out of hell the longer you stay because you are feeling feeding it it's your attention as soon as you allow it you are no longer feeding it and it will no longer have power and jay says hell is the game you've chosen to play badly just awaken to the con contrast of heaven and kiss a word that expresses a preference rosa the poem sentence that bob shared about whether in hell or heaven that you are is there is a great great pointer could you please share the author of poem the name of poem darling do you remember who one of those ones in the bomb one of the sounds in the bible yes so if you can rose like you can just google the sounds the the few words that should google should be able to to help you don't remember which sound no okay and that's uh that's it for today and thank you everybody thank you