Take the word fire, see if it burns you! Sailor Bob and Sangha on nonduality. 9 Oct 2022

And there's Josh, Tristan, and there's Lill, Gerard, Julia, Zuma, Martin, James, Adrian, Peter, Jacinta, Zara, Joe, and there's Ish. Hi. Morning everyone. Just sitting here wondering what I'm going to say. Generally the way that words happen to come out. Where from? I don't know. I don't care much either. Speaking happens. What we put, what we generally talk about here is what they call non-duality or Advaita in the scriptural text. Advaita means non-duality and they try to describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second. Not two. Only the one. The one essence that patterns, shapes, forms, experiences and expresses as everything. Just this. Nothing else.

And when that's investigated you recognise and see that that is so. But it looks like it looks as though there are many. But it is only the one life. The one intelligence energy. And you and I and everything else is already that. One essence. We call ourselves human beings. And that's all there is. If it's one essence it's only the one being. And can anyone negate their beingness? Can you say I am not? You can't. So you are that being. But then we put the concepts in it I'm being this person. This separate entity. This individual. And we take that to be so. And that's the problem.

Because we have separated ourselves from what is inseparable. And divided ourselves from what is indivisible. Into the many. But it's the one intelligence energy. If you like to use that term you can call it God. But I don't use that term because you can get confused with it. Because look at all the different traditions and different religions. They've all got different concepts and ideas about what this God is. And so instead of seeing it all as the one essence the one life the one activity the one intelligence energy. And it needs to be investigated to see that. We've taken ourselves to be these persons these body minds.

But have a look. Are you the body? You'll say my body. But investigate that. Don't you say my house my car, my coat. You know you're not the car. Coat, the car or the house. Maybe you're not the body either. You also say my mind. Are you the mind? You'll say again my mind. But what's this body made up of? If you say my body. Have a look at it. You realise the body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like it. The elements around you. So what are these elements? We'll see if you can live without those elements. Can there be a body without the elements?

Take the air out of it. See how long it lasts. Take the fire, the water. The body temperature. It'll soon die. Take the water. Get off the earth. Get out of space. So when you investigate you see you're not separate from these elements. All these elements could be broken down into subatomic particles. Into pure energy. So all this body is is a vibrating pattern of energy. Doesn't Einstein tell you that? There's all this manifestation. Everything is energy. What about the mind? Well show me this thing you call mind. If you can. When you say my mind. When you look into it you can't say there is any such thing as mind.

Because what's mind? Well mind. Is a vibration. A sound. A word. A thought. An idea. All vibrating energy. So the whole manifestation is that intelligence energy. And the word intelligence comes from not your intellect. But the way it's all expressing. Doesn't it imply that the whole of nature, even these bodies. And the way they're patented. And the way they're patented, shaped and formed. It's a fuse with that intelligence. The activity of knowing. Of being. Intelligence is knowing. And is there anyone of you who is not knowing? In the Satyajit Ananda which translates as existence, consciousness, bliss, nama, rupa. They're the five factors. Anyone who is not existing right now.

You realize no I'm existing. Anyone who is not conscious. And you say yes you know you are conscious. Are you unaware? You know you're not unaware. So you must be aware. Anyone who's not happy to be. Well you know what to be dead to. So you're happy to be. So doesn't that point out that you are already that? So when we think we've got to become that. Or we've got to become realized. You don't realize that you are already that. And it's going to be a real thing. And the conceptual idea that we are these persons has come about. And think we've got this idea we've got to become.

But can you negate your beingness? You call yourself human beings. If you believe in God you'll call God the Supreme Being. Well take that label out human. Take that label supreme out. And try and separate your beingness right now. Try and negate it. And you realize you can't say I am not. You know that you are. So that's it you are already are this. And in the scriptures they call it that. That's the great mantra. I am that. Well look at that and realize that everything is that. That's the chair you're sitting in. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the space in the room.

That's the room itself. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything is that. Which we put different labels on. Different words. And discriminate it with the word. Now look at the word. You realize the word is not the thing. Take the word water. Try and drink it. Take the word fire. Try and cook with it. See if it will burn your mouth when you speak about it. Can you burn yourself with it? You can't. Get off the earth if you can. You can't. Get out of space. You can't. Because you say it's all the content of that space like awareness. Space is no thing. Can't try and grasp space right now.

Can you grab it? You can't. Can you find a center to it? Does it have any beginning? Doesn't have any beginning. Can you find a circumference to it or a boundary to it? It's got no boundaries. But you can't say it is not. And you can't postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space. You and I are in space. Everything is in space. So can you say anything is the content of space? Outside of space. Everything is the content of space. Space is no thing. It's the screen in which everything appears on. You go to a movie and you say look at the picture on the screen.

People being shot up on it. Girls are doing all sorts of things and activities. When the movie's over, has the screen been punctuated by any of the activities or hurt or damaged in any way? It hasn't. It's never been touched. All the things that have gone on in it. Well that's the same as space. Everything is the content of space. It's all going on in space. And space is not contaminated or corrupted by anything that's going on in it. And they call it space-like awareness. This is Sat Chit Ananda, existence consciousness bliss or awareness of being is bliss. It's what you are. Space is no thing.

And if everything is the content of space, space is no thing. You and I and everything else are things. So we're all no thing. Appearing as things. Just like a dream. You go to sleep at night, you dream a dream. You call the world as the Saga does. We're dreaming a dream, we call the world. He says stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other. He says love all of it or none of it. Realise what it is. It's just a dream. And the rest will be done for you.

Realise that it all happens by itself. But we think we are dreaming this dream. And get locked into it. We don't know how to make it happen or like it or don't dislike it. And get locked into all these problems. But when you go to sleep at night and you dream a dream, you can be in the hills or the mountains or anywhere at all. In the shopping mall. Anywhere at all the dream can take place in. All sorts of things can be happening in it. When you wake up in the morning, where does it all go? It all disappears. And a lot of it, what disappears, you can't remember most of it either.

You've got to have it. But you can recall it. We'll go into that in a minute. But you can't. The dream disappears. But what you don't realise, all the hills, the mountains and rivers, all those things disappear in that dream. But you realise your body hadn't moved off the bed. No words had come out of your mouth. It was all going on in this seemingly dream. You don't realise it when you wake up. This is the living dream. This dream we are in right now is the living dream. The only difference between the dream at night and this dream, the dream at night when it's finished, it all disappears.

But this dream seemingly continues. Next morning you go to sleep at night, next morning when you wake up, the dream continues from where it left off. And so it can be recalled or remembered. And we're in the dream dream, all the hills, the mountains and that disappear in this living dream because it's a continuous dream. They still appear to be there. And more and more happens in it. But it is a living dream, a waking dream. And you realise that you're dreaming this dream. Stop and look and see it for what it is and understand and recognise it for what it is. You can be free of the dream.

In that freedom there's peace and joy and a sense of wellbeing. While the dream's going on, it's fearful, it's unhappy, it's depressed, guilty, shameful, remorse. All the psychological suffering comes about because of this believed in conceptual imagining that's going on. And the saga tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Well, have a look at that. We're in a lot of trouble, all sorts of anxiety, stresses and guilt's going on. But if nothing can trouble without accepting your own imagination, break that word imagine nows to image in. Imagine. And realise you're creating all these conceptual or mental images. Take them to be real and we cause the fear and anxiety, the stress, the guilt, remorse all come about because of this imagined reality that's going on.

Thought, idea, image. How many thoughts were you born with? You realised you weren't born with any thought. So that's why you can't remember your birth. You had no words. And every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been picked up along the way and learnt. How did you come about? Well, go back to your father and mother because the saga tells it again. There is only life. There is nobody who lives a life. Life lives on life and from out of life more life comes. You say you were born. Where did you come from? You can't remember your birth. But you realise you must come from that life.

The life of your parents. And that's true. Where do they come from? The life of their parents. And no parents before them. So life comes from life. And life lives on life. And life is life. It's not the body. It's not the mind. It's not the person. It expresses as all these things. This manifestation, they'll tell you, is a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be. So all these things, you, me, and everything around us, are all appearance. Seemingly so. But when investigated, you'll see it's not actually. It's not a phenomenon. It's not a reality. It's not a reality.

It's naturally so. Actually, you are that one essence. That one intelligent energy. The space-like awareness. The awareness that's like space. The same as space. Space is no thing, but the content is everything. Now, you say you came from your parents. How did that happen? We'll have a look. Go to that pattern you call your father. pattern you call your father. In that pattern, through the food he's eating and the breath he's breathing, the life, in that pattern a microscopic particle called the sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye, but that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother, that animating life essence in your mother enabled in that pattern another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form.

You can't see that with your naked eye, but that egg was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. The sperm knowing what to do, it swam to the ovum and it penetrated the ovum. Subtitles by the Amara.org community And when those two came together, that innate intelligence energy in it, the vibration or the life in it, doubled that cell, doubled it again and formed the little embryo, the little fetus, which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then? If you think you're living the life, you think you are this person. And realise for the first couple of years of your life before you learnt any words, you had no words so you couldn't say you were born.

You couldn't say anything about it at all, yet you lived quite well. And then you were born. And after about the age of two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning as that pattern was growing and still growing, capacity of reasoning developed. And in that capacity of reasoning you learnt words. And every word you've ever spoken or liked to speak has been learnt. But you've got to understand the words, not the real. Take the word water, try and get it out of your mouth. And then you can't do anything about it. You can't do anything to the word. You can't drink the word. You can't.

The word fire doesn't burn your mouth. You can't cook with it. So this word is not the thing. But we take the word to be real and believe we are this person. Where did this person come from? You really have to come from the ancient latin persona, the mask. That's what it is. We call ourselves a person, we relate to what we are. We are this conceptual image. A mask of concepts. A word. Which we're hiding our true nature and obscuring our reality. Just like you're outside on a sunny day, would you say there's a cloudy sky there? You can't see the sun. You wouldn't say the sun's not in the sky because the clouds are obscuring it.

And when you realise that the clouds are obscuring it, and what forms the cloud? The sun itself forms the cloud. It evaporates water. In its heat, its radiance evaporates water. The water condenses and forms a cloud. See, that's what's going on in this body. The body is functioning naturally, and thoughts come upon it. Thoughts are like clouds. You get enough thoughts in your head to obscure the light of the sun, of energy or the intelligence energy in your body. And you're focusing into the words, into the concepts. And you're missing out on the life that you truly are, the pure body, intelligence, and the essence energy.

Like the sun, the sun continues to radiate, and it might cause a wind to stir it, it'll blow the cloud away, or it'll cool the condensation and bring the cloud down as rain. And in the sky, there's more clarity. And when there's more clarity there, there's more light, there's more intelligence, there's more knowing, more affection, more love, more warmth in that clarity. It's not a cloud. It's not obscured by clouds. The same thing's happening in these bodies. When you investigate and see if the cloud of thought, and investigate the thought, and recognize the thought is the word, and you are prior to the word, you are prior to the thought, there's more silence, more stillness, more clarity.

Then there's more love, more affection, more compassion, more warmth. And the clouds of thoughts, the fear and anxiety and the stress, the guilt, the shame, remorse, comes up. It's seen through. Unless notice is taken of it. You're seen for what it is. And the belief in the word and the thing is going out of it. Because you can no longer believe it when you recognize it. They call it a cognizing emptiness. And we think we are, we are cognizing the emptiness or knowing the emptiness. But it's not that at all. The cognizing emptiness is the emptiness itself that has that capacity of cognizing or knowing.

And the Buddha told you that a couple of thousand years ago and he said, emptiness is form. It's that cognizing or emptiness that's forming all this manifestation. Including you, me, and everything else that's in the, that manifests. And all this manifestation is everything. And the emptiness is form. And then he turned it around the other way and says, the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. So we got belief, this belief that we are these persons, these human forms, these individuals, and suffering because of that. It's nothing but the emptiness. Every form in this room is empty. But it appears solid and substantial. Solid and substantial.

Investigate the appearance and look. Investigate, you'll see everything can be broken down into that silence, that stillness, that emptiness. Which is a cognizing emptiness. Emptiness is a view of the knowing or cognizing. Intelligence. It vibrates as you, me, and everything else. That's what we need to investigate. That's what we need to look at. How does it work in your body? Well, something comes up, you look at this body, and you'll see it's always vibrating dualistically. Even though it's non-duality, it's seen as duality. A dual expression. Duality means two. Non-duality means not two. Or one without the other. One without a second. And so it's all that one without a second.

So look at this mind and see how it functions. And you'll see it's functioning dualistically. As Shakespeare told you 400 years ago, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking so. It makes it so. And have a look at this thinking that's going on. You believe I think. But see, have a look at the thinking. How is this thinking happening? You see, it's always happening dualistically. It's either past or future. Pleasant, painful. Happy, sad. Loving, hating. Positive, you never knew. High, low. Thick, thin. Far, near. See the way your thinking is functioning. It's a dualistic functioning, always. That's how it vibrates. But what we don't realise is that it's not divided.

The good and bad are two ends of the one stick. Two sides of the one coin. And one side is... The stick, it's a good thick end. It's a good end. The other side is thin. It's a bad end. The coin, one side is head. The other side is tail. But we think they're divided. And we want the good and don't want the bad. Not realising we'll never get rid of it, trying to divide it. But seeing it for what it is and not being bound in it, naturally it'll relax into that non-duality of itself. Non-separation. Something comes up, see how it functions in your body.

And you like it. And we don't want the good things to go. We want to keep them there. Because they've been coming and going, coming and going. And we've been suffering accordingly because we've taken belief in them. But we don't want them to go. So what do we do? We resist it. We try to keep it there. Resist it. Not realising how much you love it, how much you love it, how much you want to keep it there. No matter how much you do, it's going to change. Because that's its nature. Everything is changing. Everything in this manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. There's nothing static about it at all.

This moment is changing. That body is changing right now. There are thousands of cells dying right at this moment. Not one or two, but thousands of them. And being replaced. And each cell that replaces it knows what to do. Because a skin cell won't replace a brain cell, or a heart cell won't replace a brain cell, or a heart cell won't replace a brain cell. Or a heart cell won't replace a kidney or a liver cell. Every cell is a fusion of an intelligence that knows what to do. And so it goes on. So we don't want these good things to go. Not realising no matter how much you love them, they're going to change.

What do we do? We try to keep it there. We resist it from going. I've got to keep this good thought here. I've got to get rid of the bad. So they're the conflict we're in. We're separating it and trying to keep with a sense of separation. We're in conflict. We're at war with it. Resistance is conflict. And conflict makes you uneasy. Makes you fearful, unhappy, depressed. And that uneasiness, another name for that is disease. So there's resistance, conflict and disease going on in us right now. Look at it the other way. Something comes up and you don't like it. Well this is what we're doing.

We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. Well this is one of those thoughts that I shouldn't be thinking. I don't want this one. It's a bad thought. I've got to get rid of it. So what do I do? Resistant again. Resistant again. So resistance again. Conflict again. Uneasiness again. Disease. So isn't that what your life consists of? Resistance, conflict and uneasiness all the time? Thoughts coming, hanging around and going. And we fixate on them and keep them there longer than they should have been. Some of them we get a hate or revenge and all of us and hang onto them for days, years, weeks, months.

And beat ourselves up with the word and suffer accordingly. The fear, the anguish, the depression, the guilt, the shame, remorse, the unhappiness. All this concept's going on. In this mind. Creating all these unhappiness and fear. All because of this conflict that's going on in our belief we are this person. So that's what's happening. All these thoughts that go on, keep them there, become feelings. And the feelings turn into emotions. Anger, fear, depression, guilt, shame, remorse. Built on thought. What is wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Ask yourself that question and have a look at it. What can I say was wrong with that if I don't think about it?

And I realise if I don't think about it I can't say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy. Can't say anything at all. So you recognise from that that thought is the cause. It is the cause of all these feelings. My anxiety, my stress, my guilt, my shame. My unhappiness, my depression, jealous envy. The cause of me. Believed in the me. Relating to the me. This me is a concept. Somebody asks you who you are, you say I am Bill or Jane or Bob or whatever. Whatever your parents called you, that's what you believe you are. Now instead of realising and recognising you are the absolute because it's only the one without the second.

It's all absolute. We've so conditioned to believe it, I am Bill. Parents will ask you. So now you've taken on that word, I am Bill. And you've taken yourself away from the absolute reality. So what happens to me is what's happened to me, Bill or Jane or whatever your name might be. Me is the cause of all your psychological suffering. It's only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be depressed. Because the me really when you look at it is a fiction. It's the conceptual image. The ego. Which is a fiction. There's no such thing as an ego.

We've taken my ego, my mind. There's no such thing as a mind. Mind is nothing but vibration. Thought. Thought's a vibration, a movement of energy. Which we put the words on and take the words to be real. We put the labels on all these things. And we've taken the word to be real. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. That's all God is, is a word. And all these words are this godliness expressing. All words, all things. In the beginning the word was with God. All things were made by him. By the word.

This word. We think this word God formed these words. And there was nothing made that was made. Without the word. So it's all words. It's all this manifestation. But without the words. What is it? It's absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. So we've moved away from being the absolute when we learn words. So in the beginning was the word. And that's when it all begins. You had no words for the first couple of years of your life. You couldn't say you began. Even though you were there. But you couldn't say you began because you had no words.

No thing to give a label to, to take the idea or concept or belief that there was something there. You were functioning spontaneously and naturally. And you learnt the words from your father and your mother who had learnt words before you. And from then on you've taken yourself to believe that you are the word. So all that needs to happen is to allow it to turn you around. And recognise that the word is not the thing. And you are not the word. But you are the absolute. You are the great perfection. And be what you are. Instead of taking yourself to be the person. So me, the believed in me, this conceptual image, is the cause of your psychological suffering.

It's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be unhappy. As Wei Wei Wei told you years ago. He says, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. And that's where the unhappiness lies. The fear lies, the depression lies. In the belief that you are this separate entity. So you see, me is the cause of all your psychological suffering. And the suffering, the fear, the anxiety, the effects are the effect of the cause, me. Me is the cause and the effects are the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, remorse.

Cause and effect. Isn't that what they call karma? Cause and effect. But what happens if I ask myself the question, when I see that me is the cause of all my suffering, and ask myself the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to the cause? Well you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. If I'm not relating to this cause, me seeing me as the cause is a fiction, and not relating to it, doesn't cause and effect disappear? What am I left with then? Just left with this presence awareness. And is there anybody who right now is not aware of being present?

And you'll recognise, no, I'm aware of being present. But there might be concepts and thoughts coming to you, that's going on, which are obscuring it. I don't like what he's saying and I don't agree with it, and I say, well that's all very well gone. See it in a different light. It's up to you. But here, it's seen through and recognised. And there are some there, that have been coming for a while and recognised it. Some know the truth about it. Some of you might be coming recently and have questions to ask, and doubt to ask. Well that's what you're here for. To ask questions.

And if you know it, tell us about it. Because that's how it gets passed along. Somebody hears and passed along. And you might say something, or put it in a different way to what I'm saying it, and with a few words different, might gel with the person who's looking for it, and turn you around. Now you wouldn't be here, if you weren't dissatisfied with the current religions. What they're telling you, that you are a sinner, putting all the rules and regulations. You've looked into it, and got some satisfaction in it, but not seen through it right away. And you hear terms like enlightenment and realisation.

And realise, I've got to become realised. I've got to become that. When you're told that that is the great mantra. I am that. Everything is that. Everyone OK? Are you OK? Yeah, I'm OK. A chair broke. OK, I'll get another one. I don't know how asking either of you. A changing. Even the cat comes right. You should explain to the people on Facebook what you're saying. Everything changes. I'll tell you, it's not the first chair that's broken over the years. And a few still. Anyway, I recognise you. Do you want me to get closer to Bob? Ah, that's relevant. I've got any questions, any doubts.

So get into it. I have a comment that is actually quite relevant. I hope Bob, you may add a few words to that too. This is what I should have read in the beginning. For those who are here for the first time, we have online community, which is following listening to your livestream. So that is from Ram, who is in Sydney. He says, gosh, where is it? When listening to Bob, don't listen as a seeker, but as one essence. Itself. Consciousness resonating with consciousness. The habit of a seeking is trapped. And this is what Bob was saying when the mind is listening. I agree with that.

I heard that before. That commentary. Mind kind of unlearns through repetition as well. And after a certain amount of repetitions, it may stop and lie its guards and just let it in and resonate. Yeah. Realise that there's an art to listening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listening as you believe to be so. There's no communication. Because you all have your concept. And they've got their concept. And trying to communicate concept with concept, it's listening in the head. And it doesn't work. But they tell you, listen from the heart. When you think you hear that, you think you've got to listen from the physical heart.

It's not the physical heart they're talking about. Heart. As the core of the beingness. Or the symbol of the spirit. And you know what heart to heart is. When somebody tells you something and it really gels with you, you'll say, my heart went out to them. When you were moved by it, and you recognised it as heartfelt. So listen from there, you get a different aspect on things altogether. And rather, as Ram said, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, rather than having a heart, who is going to find something or get something or learn something from it you get an attitude of one essence or consciousness which basically resonates oh yeah all right because we all innately know it everyone was born without the language and a language is that which obscures that innate non-conceptual awareness non-conceptual awareness is still there when there is no languaging happening when there is no commentary happening but even when it is happening the non-conceptual awareness awareness of presence is never far away so it really is about listening with that core of the being of the essence in which we know that's true we know that innately because can't deny it can't deny your presence can't deny that you are aware of existence can't deny that you are to start with and all the rest is just the overlay of a story which makes a drama and which creates the idea that i am not it and i have to become i am not enlightened or full or complete but i have to get something learn something gain something to become which is uh just the storyline without that story nothing is wrong and as bob was quoting his agadata this is imagination it's only imagination that can trouble us i imagine being my bodily costume and because of i identify with that imagined appearance now the story goes but that's just unnecessary but there are more comments welcoming comments and there was james says i think quoting you bob where the me and the mind is there is bound to be conflict and i'm picking on james bloody hell because james is commenting from katherine from his partner's account when is james gonna get his own account starts commenting himself.

And Jai says, happy to have found you. Jai was asking if we are meeting in Melbourne. I sent the address, so you're welcome to join us, Jai, next week, and you're welcome to join us in the restaurant after for a meal to say hi. And check the website for all the Zoom meetings. And we have potentials O, H, and S issue board? Yes. Yes, we have occupational health and safety issues, yes. One of the chairs broke down. You can go and be the chair tester. Nobody got hurt. This is my new job now, so that's the only. We've only got one American in the room.

But you're just like... Yeah, but nobody got one year, nothing to report. Watch out. Yeah, so that's it for the online comments. Now the stick with the mic goes to you. Anyone would like to ask questions or comment on anything? You want to? Yes. I think Shereen. Great to be here in person. I watch nearly every week. Thanks again for this. What is there? Just one thing that might help others if they've got very busy minds like mine never stop yapping. It's getting better. But one thing that really helped with listening to Bob, was like, instead of listening to the words, listening to the gap between, so I'm just listening to the gaps between the words.

And you get a sense of something different. And I've now kind of moved beyond that a little bit. And now, if the mind's busy, there's something that knows that the mind's busy. So you can, you're aware that your mind's busy. And you're aware that Bob's speaking. There's something if you kind of rest towards that. That's another beautiful way to listen. Thank you. Yeah, good. Yeah. Next thought. It's just a comment. I'm just really fascinated by the concept. Well, that non-conceptual awareness still exists, even though we have all these concepts. I just find it very, very interesting. Yeah. Awareness is the basis. Yeah. The basis of everything.

You can't tell me what awareness is. But you know you're not unaware. And awareness is existence. Consciousness appears in awareness. Awareness is without concepts. It's non-conceptual, ever fresh, presence awareness. That's the life itself. The concepts come upon it and they disrupt it. Education was so destructive because it brought all these concepts along. And I wanted to have an education without concepts. But it's such a ridiculous idea. But, yeah, I'm just sorry. I'm just, these are just thoughts that are in my head at the moment. Yeah. We've got to learn words to express them. We have to learn words. Can't help but learn words. Yes, I know.

And yet in the learning of the words then we have the destruction, or it seemed to me that we have the destruction of that awareness, of that understanding of our essence of ourselves. It doesn't, it's not destructive. They appear on it like they, and they seem to, like a cloud appears in the sky. The sky is not destructive by any cloud that's appearing on it. We're not destroyed by any of the thoughts or concepts that appear in the so-called mind, in the head. You are the life itself. You may not be destroyed and the life itself is not destroyed, but the understanding seems to be destroyed.

Well, the understanding is a belief. And the belief is not the actual. We have these beliefs about this, that and that other. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Put your belief to this test. There's so many things out there we used to believe were different. Go down to the ocean and I say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You'd say, don't be. And it is, you know, the sea is not blue. But it still appears to be blue. Santa Claus, we believed in Santa Claus.

It was proven that there was no such thing as Santa Claus, but we still, you know, gave the kids, gave us pleasure when we were kids, so we still continue the thing to give the kids a bit of pleasure. But you know the truth about it. The water in the mirage. Another one, the snake in a rope. All the different analogies they put out there to tell you that belief's not the actual. The person, the person is not the reality. We take ourselves to be this person. But the reality is the very life essence which patterns show. Which patterns, shapes and forms and expresses through that pet which you call you.

As the person. Call it Shiva Shakti. Shiva is the godly or the static aspect. Shiva Shakti is his consort or his, the female aspect. Shakti dances or vibrates. And the world appears. So the world is nothing but the vibration or dance of Shiva. The different analogies they have. And going back to the pointer Bob was talking about before, about the, you see people in the movies all the time. And they're appearing on the screen and there's all sorts of action and conversation and etc. I just love that pointer because it shows that the screen is never contaminated by anything that's going on in the mind.

And now, when you really see that, it's, yeah, it's such a weight off your shoulders, you know. Because, sorry. We're being tangled by the camera. Sorry to interrupt you. They're tangled with the table. Are you finished? I think so. I think it's possible. Don't give me any more. I think it is possible to see. Maybe you move a little bit, half a meter each. It is possible to see the limit. It is possible to see the limit of your mind. That's okay. To see that it can't go. For example, if you just pause the thought, right, you see the limits to conceptual thinking. It can't really impinge on the absolute nature of you anyway.

But if in practice you can see the mind in action, you are in a very real sense, you are God thinking. You are God being aware of thinking. It might help you. That sort of way of looking at it might help you to see that there is a limit. That reality isn't circumscribed by the mind. There is something beyond the mind. And you can see both that operating at the same time, if you like. I also got a comment from Vivek who says, who actually agrees with you that too much worldly education does not help in spiritual yaw. The more learning, the more unlearning is needed.

And I would just like to comment on that. That there is, because it is the absolute expressing or the godliness expressing, nothing is wrong and nothing is out of place. And as much as you completely arrive, Vivek, that's true, the more you pack your mind with stuff, the more unpacking and throwing it out and emptying it, which is not a doing. Then the other, the flip side of the coin is, if not for the identification, if not for constructing that limit itself and believing yourself, to be an actor in the game, there is no waking up. Like you see those cats roaming around the room, they didn't construct false self, they don't have that network in the brain that hallucinates imagined entity living somewhere in the head.

So they are constantly in the natural state, or so-called awakened state. But they take it for granted. There is no appreciation. Because to actually appreciate the freedom, the temporary confinement helps it. Like nobody knows the health unless they get sick. Before you get sick, you take it for granted. Darkness cannot be known if not for the light, the pain without pleasure. So the awakening or the liberation or the freedom, even from the overload of the learning and concepts, is known on its background of unlearning, or identification and freedom from identification. Identification are part of the play. There couldn't be one without the other. There couldn't be freedom without the confinement or the prison.

And space is untouched by anything. Only a temporary character that shows up, that Shakti dancing, only that one experiences confinement and liberation. Space has never been confined or needed to be liberated. But that's a beautiful point for discussion. Michael touched on it before. About the gaps. When there's a gap, what have you done? You've detached from the chatter and everything else. And that detachment, there's just pure being there. But when you're attached to it again, you're in the concepts and thoughts, trying to function attached to that, that's the problem. Fixating. Unfixated awareness. And what you said about the clouds and sky, and what Jane said about the clouds and sky, the screen and the appearance of the screen, or the dream, whatever shows up in the dream, they're all beautiful pointers and beautiful analogies back to the natural state, which is unobscured, non-conceptual awareness.

Regardless of forms and concepts and feelings and all the content. I was just going to say that the mind is not the problem. The clouds in the sky, if you see them that way. But the problem is, like, Bob says, fixating. So there's always going to be thoughts. They're always going to be there. It's when you have a response, or when there is a response to the thoughts. That is the fixation. Whenever you fixate on any person, place or thing, not that you are a person, because again, that's an image of them. That's not the real. So the fixation is the problem. The thoughts are always going to be there.

Oh, there they are. So I love what Michael said about the spaces. Because the minute there's the awareness of the spaces, you go, oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. Because you see that, again, you might have been in the content, not the context. You know? And I love this analogy. I love this analogy of our dear friend Paul Hedeman's. It's a bit of a cute sort of way of looking at it. It's, say, you can think of yourself as a railway station. And the trains come and go. And the railway station's never going to move. It's always going to be a railway station.

And the trains are always going to come and go. Alternatively, you could just throw... You know, a river. Be the river. Let your mind be a river and let it all just flow to the sea. All those notions about everything just flow away. Like the Yarra River in Flood at the moment underscores the whole experience, you know? It's just everything's flowing away regardless. Everything changes. All these ideas that we have are gone anyway. Gone the instant that you conceive of them. Gone the instant they appear. And the next idea is there six seconds later or whatever. It's all in flow anyway, so just let it flow.

And I think also that what mind is, is an attempt to prove non-being, prove non-awareness, and prove non-presence by relative truth rather than those absolutes. I forget your other... Yeah, for me it was today quite interesting because... I was coming here and then I just realized before I came here all my mind is actually just worrying about something and if that one is not there, it's worrying about something else. And I got away off that because the topic changed that I was worrying about something else. And then I thought, is this the mind doing it? That they constantly worry about something... My mind, let's say.

Worrying about something and then when it's solved, something else appears and then it has to be reversed about it and then I feel like I'll solve it, whatever that solving means. And then something else comes up or something else comes up and what I was worrying before is not there anymore. And then what is coming is more present. So that was present beforehand is not there, present in my mind. And... Yeah. It's sort of hard for me to be too much into listening today because I was constantly thinking about this worryness and to actually go back to the gap or whatever is there to actually let it flow that I don't have to worry about it.

Or I might have to act in this particular situation. I probably have to act in some stage. The question is, do I need to worry about it or see it more in a other way than of being part of the flow or... No. Because who's worrying about it? Have a look at who is worrying about it. Where is it? Is that who? Is that who happening right here, right now if you don't think about it? So that... You cannot change the mind with the mind. So that who or that me that you think you are that has to worry or not worry or... You know, that...

That me can only live in your memory. In the memory, rather. And the memory of you, is that you? Is that memory of you, you? Or is what you really are truly here sitting on that sofa today? I'm... Because it was hard for me to listen because I'm still in that thought. Maybe I just say it. So what makes me worried is like I realize today that the house I'm living in for seven years is put on sale. So I think, oh, do I need to act now? Look for a place or don't worry about it or... So that's the thing. The right action will come.

The choice maker. The right choice will appear. And you won't be the choice maker. Because there is no choice maker. Bob wants to say something. Yeah. Yeah. Bob. Do you want to comment? Yeah. Yeah, let Bob comment a little. That little saying we have here fits in there pretty well. As a rule, a man's a fool. When it's hot, he wants it cool. When it's cool, he wants it hot. Always wanting what he's got. Always wanting what he's not. Never wanting what he's got. That's a rule. A man's a fool. That's true. That's great. Absolutely. That summarizes the worry. Always thinking about what is not happening.

That's the distraction device here. That is always commenting on imaginary context, which is not the present breath, not the present sensation. And there is another comment here from Jay. He says, I have heard Rupert's father. He said, I have heard Rupert's father. I used the screen analogy many times to explain the space of awareness or consciousness with the movie of thoughts and life appears and disappears. Another analogy is the background of the sky where clouds appear and disappear. And Ram says, the shift from listening as a seeker, which will go on forever, to that of consciousness itself is subtle yet profound. When reading the Gita, read from the perspective of Krishna, not Arjuna.

That's from Nisargadatta. Also, Nisargadatta, the only thing you can change is your attitude. The subtle difference in attitude is that slightest of distinction that goes from everything being clear and undisguised to making heaven and earth infinitely apart. And Ram also says, the shift from listening as a seeker to the consciousness of the sky is subtle yet profound. Another analogy is the background of the sky where clouds appear and disappear. And Ram also reads from the perspective of Krishna, which appears and disappears. They all look way different and far apart. Small things appear whenched in syn bury. But they only appear when you lean on them.

Rupa Rupa ret сегодня� naturale常回現形容 or like maybe even yesterday, there was some worrying about worrying. It's so funny. Worrying. Worrying about worrying. Bob, I'm going to worry about my worries about my worries. It's just another thought. You know, there's a quote that I really loved, that I've always loved, about truth. You know, if you want to know the truth, absolute truth, relative truth is not to me truth. It's because it changes. Truth is that which never changes. Right? The same can be said about what's reality. It never changes. So my worries about my worries can change. They're all BS. Anything you can say with a word is BS.

Anything that you can describe, anything with a concept is just not true. You know? Unless you can just say I am. There you go. You want something true. That's it. Anything you add to it, to I am, to that, even that. It's like even the words I am, well, they're not there when I'm sleeping, and yet I am. So it's prior to that. So that's it. It's kind of funny, though. It's a nice little BS detector. You know? If you want to know the truth, just change. You know? Can it change? Anything about it? And, yeah, it's very simple. I love the simplicity and the laughability.

It's so funny when you think about it a little bit. Tis. Anyway. Different topic, but it was quite interesting before. I had to close my eyes when Bob was talking. And then I probably put meaning into it. But I was talking. And then I opened my eyes. And then I looked at the chair there. And I saw the seat was a bit in the ankle. And I was looking at the chair. Where is that seat in the ankle? And I compared to this chair. And then I looked at the front bar and the back bar. And then they're similar straight. And I thought about it suddenly.

It collapsed. And I thought, why? I started thinking about it. And it just happened. Master. And then working out the. The. The. The strings with the ball. And it's like, oh that's a. That's a potential break thing. And because my mind is technical, so. And then it just happened. And I thought, oh is it because I'm thinking? I don't know. Why is this meaning? But it was in this moment it actually collapsed. Because I had my eyes always closed beforehand. So I wasn't thinking about anything. I just looked at it. Like, hang on. Why is. That angle. Why is this straight? Is this made, OK?

Be nice to him. You don't want him thinking . Yeah, of course it's like, oh these chairs are not really made in China maybe? I was thinking. You'll get ambitious shortly and start putting them on people. So, anyway, I wasn't worrying about it yet. Just think about your worries. Just make sure that you don't really worry too much. You have that power to make them happen. I should've. I should've been worrying for a long time. I should've been worrying. I should have been worried and let him know to get out, but I wasn't. No, no, of course, we are kidding here. But Julia used to joke about the law of attraction, that worry is praying for what you don't want to happen.

And relaxing out of the worry is the only way to actually just completely bypass, even if you believe or you don't believe in the law of attraction, there's always some energy movement to some ideas, and that movement of energy is the movement of life. But when you actually really imagine very vividly something bad happening, I mean, you want to be afraid or anxious, well, get your kid and imagine what could happen to him in a year, or what could happen to the planet, or to your whatever. It is really, really easy to get oneself terrified by imagining scenarios, because this machinery here doesn't really know the difference.

It will create the same chemicals in the body, and you may literally get your body all acidic and all run with adrenaline, and you may not even be able to imagine what could happen to you in a year, because you don't have the energy to do anything. So the only way really, if you understand the way the device works, and the way the whole manifestation comes into existence, is to relax out. The worry happens. You see, it's unproductive, obviously, because the decision doesn't come out of it, it's only stirring up the energy. Relaxing, relaxing, back into what's naturally there, you know, like relaxing into that sky-like awareness.

And as Jane was saying, when the decision is ready, when the body is ready to create a movement to solve the situation, that movement will arise with or without the worry, with or without the narrative. And the best way to see it is if you look in the natural world. See the animals, see the birds. They don't need to worry or have long narratives for the action to come naturally from that survival instinct already embodied in the machinery. So if there is a movement, if there is a thinking process which doesn't lead to any decision or any action, well, the safest and the most obvious thing to do is just relax in your being and enjoy the being, and be in that joy, because that becomes habituated too, rather than the anxiety, stress and depression.

So if I'm in that being, You are that thing. Yeah, so then I relax into it, like sometimes I just close my eyes and just relax. I relax what is there. Then the thought is going to be still there, and I have a feeling, so then not resonate with the thought. But the thought is still there. The thought is always going to end up being, it bifurcates, it's a bifurcating machine too. It keeps splitting and splitting and splitting. The more you look at it, the more you try to analyze things, the more you go into these pockets of bifurcation, which are just endless, endless, endless, that choice or that choice or that choice, never getting to an absolute.

The absolute condition of you is very, very simple, extremely simple. It doesn't require any thinking at all. In fact, what it requires is you to just dump all your thoughts, all the notions about everything in the river. Let it flow away to the sea. Let it be the only pollution there is in the ocean, yeah. Can I say something? Can you do that, Joseph? I just want to talk about worry. I just want to talk about worry. I saw this fantastic film called Bridge of Spies, and this Russian spy was going to get sent back to Russia, and the lawyer that was defending him, he said, you know, well, you must be, you know, really worried about what's going to happen to you when you get there.

Aren't you worried? He said, would it help? LAUGHTER That's true. Yeah. Edith? I was going to say, what was I going to say? Yeah, I'm trying to think. Yeah, the whole thought-feeling mechanism is just appearances and phenomena on what sort of I actually am, and for me it's always coming back to this exact present, ever-fresh moment right now. Like, that worry might not be here right in this second. It's only, like, when I go to the mind, the problem appears sort of thing. So right now, like, you're sort of rehashing the worry, but right coming back to this present moment, if the thought isn't there, generally it's not there.

The thought is the problem, and it contains a problem, and the whole assumption that I am there and it's my thought and my worry is the thing that needs to be seen, that it's... It's appearing, but there's no owner of it. So it's the whole... It's tricky, because thoughts and feelings, it's... For me, it's like there's an entity there. It's actually an activity. It's a transient activity that appears and comes and goes. Yeah, so that's... I don't know. I'm not sure I exactly said what I wanted to say, but something along those lines. Yeah. Great summary. That's what I was going to say. Thoughts can be, like, made to be...

Made to feel very shameful, very guilty, and very unwanted in so many ways. And the more unwanted, the more shameful, the more deadly they are, you see? Because they keep you from... They keep you locked into a sense of self, which is a construct of mind, of course, because that enables you to know where you are in time, and space, right? That's what the mind does. The mind is a locator of you in time and space, and it will use everything it can get. Usually, it uses shame and guilt, because these things are kept as being the most sacrosanct items. They're beyond question, right? Aren't they?

The thing that you're most guilty of. If you killed somebody, you're very, very guilty, aren't you? So that's beyond... That's going to be... That guilt, that level of guilt, is going to be beyond redemption, if you like. Right? That's the way the mind operates. That's all crap. Because the simplest thought can be the same as the most complex, irrational, emotional thought. So mind tends to create a... Can we give you a quick thing, please? Yeah, that one is very fragile. Sorry. I won't do it anymore. Mind is a... It's not good. Yeah. So, yeah, look, get used to what mind does. You need to see that, because...

And the opposite of mind is the absolute, right? Because when you're speculating, you're looking at options. You're looking at this and you're looking at that. You're weighing up the good and the bad. You're bifurcating everything, splitting it, in other words, into two. And that activity, that activity of analysis, may be useful for building a... You know, a van, physically. You know, a good idea or something. That's great. That's excellent. But when it comes to you and defining you, it's all off. It's all off, because you are just here now. That's all you are. And in this present moment, in this present moment, is there anything wrong?

No, there isn't. So why would you look towards anything but this present moment? Because you're only going to find problems out there. And the way in which it does it is the mind, the mind overlooking the absolutes all the time, going to the relative, creating some scenario, a picture in which you can feel comfortable. But you're never really comfortable there, because it's already left you. The second you formulate this current circumstance, you know, the second you do that, the opposite is true, or the emptiness is there again. It's like the guys, you know, Patrick Dangerfield was interviewed after the grand final and he was saying, I haven't hit me yet.

Where is it? Where is this intangible thing called the premiership? I don't know, because in this instant, all we've got is to look towards the next bloody series, the next year, you know, that's all we've got to go with, that future viewpoint, all that past, all that resurrecting, going back and drenching, dredging all that past up to say, this is worth it now, this moment. But in reality, it's gone. It's nothing. He's in the present moment. That's all there is. That's where you find your, the value of things, the real value. Look to the present and say, you know, what do I find there? Do I find a problem there?

No. And the thing is that the mind can't handle this. It can't really handle this. It's in opposition to this, this offering of being here right now, because, you know, it's trying to find, its job is to find its way. To find a scenario, a frame of reference in which you're operating. But the best you can hope for is a procession of paradigms, really, a procession of, you know, frames of reference, one after the other, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, none of which are who you are. Including the thought of being enlightened or achieving something is wrong, because that also is a construct of mind, which is, which you've been more than likely to be, you know, more than likely, like you're thinking about the chair, more than likely you're going to bring into fruition.

So you spend another thousand years there in that process of thinking, of being what you thought you might be, which is a constant being, living in this construct of mind again. And it's, all the time it's over laying the real, which is right now. Right here, right now, full energy, full life, full throttle, let's go. Life is full. Life is always full, isn't it? Life is full. It is. It is. It's always full on. That's what awareness is. Pure awareness is fullness. Youthness, youthness, not the as-youthness. I've got another couple of comments from people who are with us. That is, Chetan says, no worries, only enjoy the being, superb.

Amanat says, mind is not the creator, maintainer or destroyer by its own. But thinks as doer without self. Hey you, I think when you see clearly that the nature of the mind is simply restless and keeps moving, then you are out of it. You've seen it. More like understanding it. Yeah, well said. And Amanat says, pure mind is non-doer. Deed and doership are imagined, but only doing, going on. Thank you, Peter. What is uncomfortable for mind is pure. What is uncomfortable for mind is self-suicide or self-realization, fun game. Actual reference of mind is emptiness with fullness. Fullness of self is converted to emptiness by mind.

And a lot of laughs. That's from Amanat. All this about the mind, there is no such thing as mind. Say it again, love. I say all this argument about mind, but there's no such thing as mind. Yeah. Mind is nothing but a vibration. Just vibrating stream of thinking. Yeah. You can call it stream of thinking. You can call it whatever. Show me your mind, anyone. Nothing but thought, concepts, ideas. If I say non-conceptual awareness, that's without any concepts. That's what a mind is, a vibration, a concept. Movement of energy, which we think the vibration is real. I can't hear him next to you. I think people online will hear because of the mind.

He said really good things. The whole key to everything. Thanks a million, Bob. No mind, no non-self at all. That's Amanat. I was going to say, I think for me, sometimes it can help to do like a 180 as well. Like sometimes there's the thinking and it's like looking out. Like there's a thought and there's another thought trying to chime in and get rid of it, which it can't actually do. Yeah. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. thinking looking out that way actually to do a 180 and look in and look at the source of this thing from another angle and go what is the source of that what is this what is this eye that claims it to you know what i mean like it's a it's more like a surviving instinct i say like you know where to stay how's this going to look like and then the thoughts come into place which is more complex so of course the how many rooms how many housemates i can have calculating the numbers how much do i have to work then or not work and it's a more complex it affects work financial and so that the minds just do that but i think what is there is like the survival of what's my life gonna look like or you know and then and so on it just just keeps going like that could be a useful functioning yeah yes yes working out yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but based on worry rather than oh it's actually look at in a positive way of like oh how are we gonna look at it yeah so that's yeah i have a comment here from hey you mind is nothing but thoughts if there are no thoughts there is no mind i kind of have a question or just a statement or a bit of both but i was thinking about um life we're talking a lot about life and awareness of life and in space on earth we have lots of things and what if there was no life on earth and it was just or maybe we'll say plants and stuff but no like animals or humans what would be uh the consciousness happening like because if if awareness is the absolute and what would be the awareness of a world without aware beings or i guess everything is the being but if we all perceive ourselves as the one that is aware who is where is the awareness coming from and how is it taking place right now like what's happening in realization consciousness and then but more so like if there's a thing like if we're just moving around i don't know because i i think to me it's very similar like it's very similar to the natural evolution but i think from in that situation.

You understand the question, Bob? No, you don't. No, Bob doesn't need the answer. Yeah, what it would be if there was no humans or animals. Well, what it is right now, no thing. Yeah. Appear, it's all phenomenal manifestation. Definition of phenomenal, that which appears to be. And then the kind of the capacity of reasoning in these so-called human patterns and the reasoning, nothing, no thing has ever happened. I like that analogy you have about the, you know, if the earth was to blow up now, put in on someone, push the bottom and the whole humanity and the whole civilization and the whole so-called organic life would completely evaporate.

There would be not one particle missing and the absolute or the space like awareness wouldn't be touched. It's not that God needs you to see it. So God is the, is, is that capacity to express. Yeah. And it is. Yeah. And it's not that God needs you to experience and express through anything. It doesn't have to be that conscious awareness for there to be experiencing. It's all spontaneous. And it doesn't even have to be experiencing because that space, it's, we say that it needs the medium to experience and express itself, but it is only because this is what we experience. We say that it needs, but it doesn't need anything.

It is free. It doesn't need it. But that's what is. That's what's happening. That's what's happening. It's only the mind that's not seeing. It's only the mind that is seeing, hearing, tasting, happening. It's only the self that is seeing, hearing, tasting, happening because I am that is seeing, hearing, tasting happening if there was no, I am that seeing, hearing, that wouldn't be happening through this body. And then we could speculate, but what if I was blind or what? If I was dead, what would be happening to consciousness? If I had short hair, some people believe that there is a wisdom here and those, those questions, they are absolutely fascinating.

And you can come up with millions of them and just stay in your mind forever. Okay. stay in your mind forever. But what non-duality really points back to is the direct present experience of this moment. And in this moment there is humanity, allegedly, there is appearance of the humanity. Because really, is there a humanity? That's another question. When you stop thinking, direct experience doesn't even point to the existence of the planet or solar system or galaxies. No, you need the thought to have the solar system, galaxies and planets. But the direct experience contains that experiencing, that awareness of presence. So imagining what would it be or how would it be for that awareness, which is just potentiality.

We can't even say that awareness exists as a thing. It doesn't. It's like we can't say that the electricity is there if you flip off the light. It is potentially there. But it's not actually there when it's not flowing. It only is when it flows. So the consciousness is when it flows. When it doesn't flow, when the body is dead or the whole humanity is dead, the potentiality is not there. You can't even say it exists or it doesn't exist. But now going into a speculation, how would that be? It's really divorcing that moment as it is and going into the speculation realm, the imaginary realm, which is fascinating in all means.

But it's really completely against what non-duality is standing for. Just knowing directly rather than knowing through conceptualizing, imagining, believing. What's your opinion? What's your opinion? Bob doesn't know. I don't know, nobody knows because we only know directly what's happening. What is not happening, we don't know. So, if we have to talk about it, and it is a great question. Absolutely. It's totally all the philosophical thing. questions are mind-blowing beautiful and I think one has to be you can look at where that questions coming from as well I think sometimes the mind can come up with these questions to protect itself from being seen through in the present moment and just be aware like that that may be going on and does it really even matter like I think what you can see right here right now is what matters and and once that's seen through you can still engage with these questions but from playful sort of viewpoint so just just watching that I'm just seeing a little reminder for tomorrow anybody wanting to join us live on zoom can't be here come tomorrow to the well go to the Facebook page or not we're sorry Bob's Bob's website and I'll give you the times in the zoom link and everything comments from people who are with us online that one is I'm enough thought is just neither complex oh no there is something before that oh my goodness there is only being or Brahma no human in human being is simply imagines that's from Amina and Jean Pierce says there is only nothing appearing as everything something cannot come out of nothing that's quote-unquote and thank you hey you says is non conceptual it's non conceptual awareness it's like being humble if you are conscious of being humble then you are not humble anymore there is no relationship yes as Bob says you then proud of you there is no relationship between I and I am for state it's established and lots of laughing and Michael the wild geese above the lake do not intend to cast the reflection the water has no mind to receive their image that's a beautiful man and Chetan says sad who but spiritual evolution is in this conclusion I'm enough everything is coming from nothing yet reminds us nothing only everything is just imagination question the question that's the answer thank you all I'm enough and Tanya says thank you all so much gratitude for some guidance can has given me recently which has greatly helped investigate the false Thank You Tanya and that guidance is actually being public not consciously so it is on our list thank you Tanya thank you Tanya thank you Tanya thank you Tanya thank you community group facebook group which you can find a link to the website and thank you everyone thank you the time for so here is the only one to join thank you thank you