It is true in its essence but not in how it appears. Sailor Bob's nonduality. 2 Oct 2022

I'll give you the run through again. What we point here, they call non-duality in some of the scriptures or Advaita. And that's what Advaita means, non-duality, not two. And that's what we need to look at. Or if you feel that you need to, some of you might, some of you mightn't. It doesn't really matter. To recognise your true nature. That you're not this person. You're not this separate entity. You are not this individual. Because Advaita, non-duality means one without a second. Not two. Not the many, but the one. The absolute, or the great perfection as they call it in Buddhism. The absolute, nothing can be added to it, nothing taken away.

We've got this idea that we are these persons, these body, mind, entity. And that needs, if you move to do it, to investigate. To see whether that is so or not. And Nisargadatta in his book, I Am That, I think it's the third or fourth chapter. It's got a whole chapter saying, you are not the person. The person is not reality. And it's not. But this is what we believe. And what this idea we are, this separate entity, this individual, this person. Investigate. And that's what needs to happen. And they say the false cannot stand up to investigation. Because if you see that the false is false, what must you be left with?

It's opposite, the truth. And that's the great call. Know the truth, the truth will set you free. And the only thing to be free from is this belief. That we are this separate entity, this person. This ego. This ego. This ego. This ego. This ego. This individual. And that very word, individual, means undivided. And it's true. Not of the person. But the whole manifestation is inseparable. It's indivisible. You can't divide it. It's all the one. They call it Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa in Hinduism. Sat is existence. Ananda is the bliss of being or loving to be. And the other two factors, Nama Rupa is the body.

Nama is the name we've been given. And Rupa is the body. Body-mind. And they tell you that body-mind is illusion. Only seemingly so. And we've taken on this belief we are this separate entity, this individual. And we suffer accordingly because that's separation. You've separated yourself from the inseparable, the absolute. Now if you know the absolute, have a look at that. You can't add anything to it. You can't take anything away from it. So who can ever be superior to you? Who can ever be inferior to you? And what would you want from the other person? So it takes away a lot of the problems that we're having.

We think we're inferior to a lot of people. And we think we're inferior to a lot of people. And we think we're inferior to a lot of people. And we think we're inferior to a lot of people. We think we're superior to others. We take the stance in whichever way it is. We're chubbings-a-gated or we're a bully. We're chubbings-a-gated or we're a bully. Or do whatever it was. And we've... He's got more than what I've got. I've got to get it. I've got to acquire it. Or do whatever it is. All our psychological problems come about because of this sense of separation. All our psychological problems come about because of this sense of separation.

In the absolute, everything is as it is. Everything is as it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. One without a second. When did it all start? Well for us, it's that so-called human being. It began It began after we were born. About two, two and a half. We picked up words. We picked up words. Before that time, you had no words. And so you can't remember your birth. You can't remember the birth. Remember past lives and all those things. When you look into it, it's all couldn't possibly be so. Because it's all the one essence, shaping and forming, experiencing, expressing it, has everything in it. So where did you begin?

And you'll say, I was born. But can anyone actually remember your birth? But can anyone actually remember your birth? You can't remember your birth. Why? Because you had no words. So how could you remember it without the word? If you ask yourself what is wrong with right now if you don't think about it, what can you say without a thought? You can't say anything. So without the word, you were still hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and thinking, but no label. Like the animals, the birds, the insects, they've got no words. There are sounds that come through. Sound can be a sound of danger, can be a sound as food here, a chirp or a noise, or a sound of mating.

So they get along without the words. But they're not suffering, creating stories, imagining some future time, or hanging onto some past event or hanging onto some past event which we beat ourselves up with and carry around for years and suffer with it. So it's living in the moment, a spontaneous living which is happening in each and every one of us here right now. You take it, you're thinking about that next breath you're going to take? You're not. Or you're thinking about beating your heart? You're not. All these things are going on. You don't have to think about them. And how did you come about? Well, Masaga had a challenge to their own people.

There is only life. There is nobody who lives a life. Life lives on life. And out of life more life comes. When you look at that you see it's so. Because you came from the life of your parents, didn't you? That animating life essence that you call your father, that intelligence energy that's expressing through that pattern and enlivening it. Enabled in that pattern a microscopic, a microscopic particle called a sperm to form in it. You can't see with your naked eye. Through the essence of the food and the prana and the breath and whatever else was there, all the elements were there. Enabled that sperm to form.

That sperm was suffused with intelligence energy. It knew what to do. The same thing in your mother. The animating life essence in your mother. Enabled in that pattern. Another microscopic particle called an intelligence energy. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It wasn't just hanging around inside. It attached itself. And the sperm knowing what to do swam to the ovum. Implying that both of them were suffused with life or intelligence energy. When those two came together the genes of one another and the genes that were there whatever was in that was the same thing. And that's what you call the ovum.

And the mother through the food she's eating and the prana enabled that little embryo, that little fetus to form. What were you doing about it then as a separate entity? Say I'm going to do this tomorrow or do that or it'll be coming. You couldn't say anything because you didn't have any words. And you grew through a few months or a year or so and the capacity of reasoning developed because that's it. There's a capacity that's in us and it grows with the body a capacity of reasoning. And your parents fussing around you hearing what they're saying and you take it on board you learn the words.

Parents tell you little Johnny or little Jean or say I am little Johnny or I am Jean. You learn that word I am. And what is that word I am? I am is the same word as the word I am. The sense of presence. Not the thought or the word but you're aware of being present right now. You're aware of being alive and present. Isn't that a fact? Before there is any words there you were aware of that. Now that's what Satchit and Andrews and they put up Existence Consciousness Bliss you are existing right now. You are conscious right now. You're not unaware right now.

You are aware. You are conscious. You are aware of being. And you're happy to be. Just a natural spontaneous effortless livingness. The pure being. But with the capacity of reasoning the parents fussing around us they'd learnt words so they start speaking words and we'd pick it up. And the very first word we learn when your parents tell you little Johnny or little Jean and somebody asks you who you are I am Jean or I am Johnny. Instead of being the absolute they now put this conceptual image this limiting fact of the body mind on ourselves. But are you this body? Are you this mind? These things need to be investigated.

And innately you know you're not because don't you say my body my mind don't you say my house my car my shirt, my coat and you know you're not the house the car, the shirt or the coat so if you look at it maybe you're not the body either. And when you investigate and have a look you'll realise you're not the body. Some of us that's all. Have a look and investigate. What's this body made up of? The realest body made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Well take those elements out of your body see that's all that's made up of is elements.

Take the air out of your body it wouldn't last too long. Take the water you'd die of thirst. Take the body temperature you'd get hypothermia. So it's made of all of them. Get out of space, get off the earth. You can't. So you realise you're not separate from those elements and all those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles in a pure energy. So this body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. What about this thing called mind? Again we take away this mind. My mind. Well show it to me if you think you are my mind. Show me a thing called mind.

When you look at that and realise there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. What we call thought or thinking we call mind. And if you are a thought which particular thought would you be? Wouldn't you be that I thought was your primary thought? And if you were a thought you'd be frightened of going to sleep at night because the thought goes when you go to sleep. And it'd be the end of you. But you'll gladly go to sleep so innately you already know you're not the thought, you're not the word. And the thought's made up of words. Concepts, ideas, images. What's words? Sound.

What's sound? Noise or word? It comes out as words. What's word? A vibration. And what's a vibration? A movement of energy. So this body mind entity that we take to be real it is real in its essence. But not real in the appearance. And that goes for everything else also. Not how it appears. It's real in its essence. The one essence that's patting, shaping, forming experiencing and expressing as everything. And they put the label God on it a lot of places, some of the ancient traditions. But I don't use that term. Because there's all these different religions got different ideas or concepts about this thing God, what they believe God to be.

I call it intelligence energy. And that's just a label also, that's not it. But it's pointing to it. I'm talking about intelligence, and we're not talking about your intellect. We're talking about the same intelligence that forms it. It forms the heart, the lungs, the kidneys, the brain, the hair, the fingernails. Doesn't that imply that that body is suffused with an innate intelligence, just like all the other things in the manifestation. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it all appears to be real. But look into it. It's not. And where does it all appear?

Well, where are you and I appearing right now? Aren't we in space? Can you grasp that space? Can you part it? If you look into it, can you find a centre to it anywhere? Can you find a boundary to it? Where it ends? You can't. So it's timeless, it's spaceless, it's got no boundaries, no circumference. But can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? There's nothing you can think of. What could you think it would be in? You'd have to think it comes back to space. So that's what they call it a space-like awareness. This awareness is like space.

It is space. Now you can't tell me what awareness is. But you know for certain that you are not unaware. You know you are existing right now. You know you are conscious. You're not unconscious or unaware. And you're happy to be. You don't want to be dead right now. So you are already that. And what's distorting it or making it unhappy? It's all these words, labels we put on it. I am Bob the Australian, a good fellow, not so good, this happened to me, that happened to me. All words, stories. And the words are not the real. Take the word water. Try and drink it if you can.

Take the word fire. Burn yourself with the word. Swim in the word water. Burn yourself with the word fire. Cook with it. Eat yourself. Watch this word me. It's not, the word is not what you are. It's a sense of presence. People say stay with the I am-ness. And people think oh this is a mantra I've got to stay with it. And I am, I am, I am, and that will get me there. But the I am is the sense of presence. There's not one of you here who's not unaware right now or not present. So you're already that. And that sense of presence expresses through the mind as the thought I am.

And then when we add that thought to it, look at all the other words we add to it. I'm Bob the Australian, a good fellow, I like this, I don't like that. They're doing this to me or I hate it. But all these concepts are words on it. And beat ourselves up with the word. And the word is not the real. That word I or me become what we call the ego. Ego is a fiction. It doesn't exist. So any of the words or labels you've got to put on yourself, the word I call is a cognising emptiness. An emptiness that has the capacity of cognising.

We think we have that capacity of cognising. But it is the emptiness itself, the life essence in you. Because he pointed out that emptiness is form. And all this manifestation is forms, pattern, shapes and forms. He turned it round and said that forms can be nothing other than the entity. Though they're all appearing as real, they're all nothing but that emptiness, that space-like awareness. It vibrates and the world appears. In Hinduism they call it Shiva Shakti. Shiva is the static aspect, the one reality, the Atman self, the one self, not a personal self. And Shakti vibrates or dances and the world appears. And that's all that this manifestation is, a vibrating pattern of energy.

We take the pattern, shapes and forms to be real and suffer accordingly in that sense of separation that comes about. And I tell you that also in the scriptures when they say it's a phenomenal manifestation, the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So you and I and everything else in this manifestation is appearing in it. But it all can be broken down into that pure intelligence energy. A vibration. As I say, this body is a vibration. A movement of energy. Vibrating into this pattern. And that shows you that there is an amazing and a wondrous intelligence suffusing it. All the organs in that body, the brains, the nerves, the seniors and everything else, the same as it is in the rest of the world.

It's an amazing and a wondrous intelligence. Not your intellect. Intellects are words we learn. But then intelligence is knowing. You're knowing right now. Not knowing this or knowing that, but just the pure knowing. With this and that are words we put on it to discriminate it. You're being right now. And you're loving to be right now. That's the Satyajit Ananda. Being, knowing and loving to be. That's intelligence. Intelligence is happening right now as an activity. It's going on right now. Spontaneously, naturally. Any activity is a movement of energy. That's where the term intelligence energy comes from. The activity of knowing. And so again there's that knowing that's there.

The beingness is there. The knowingness is there. And the loving to be right now. You are. That knowing translates as the thought I am. And then that thought becomes what? Well, I'm Bob the Australian. I'm the good fella. We put the story on it then. The label. And all these concepts. Instead of seeing the pure beingness, the pure I am-ness and let it express and function and pattern itself. We've got the story. And you hear people come to you and say, oh yes I saw it, but I lost it. How can you lose it if it's the one? Because you'll tell them you'll see immediately when they lose it, lose sight of it.

The story comes up and you say so and so. But, as soon as the but comes into it, you've started another story. If you've stopped it, if you've paused the thought for a while and looking at it and then the but will come in. If you were a smoker, what did you do with your buts? You threw them away. Well throw the but away when it comes up in your mind. Just keep throwing it away. Detach from it. It's attachment that is the pause of it because we attach all these words, concepts, and somebody says something to you that you don't like, you carry it on for weeks and years and suffer according to it.

Instead of leaving it as it is and letting it go. We separate it with the word which is not the thing. You look in the mirror and what do you see? You see an image in the mirror. And Nisargadatta tells you that nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. And you see this image in the mirror. What is it? What's the image in the mirror? Isn't it a reflection or an image? There's a mirror in the end of the room. Have a look. See what you see in it. There's a lot of reflections and a lot of images. And you look up to that mirror and try and grab an image out of it or a reflection out of it.

You can't. But you can't say it's not there. Look at it. It's there alright. But you can't say it is there because there's nothing you can latch onto when you realise that this essence, this life that you are is like that image in the mirror. You can't say it's not. But you can't say it is. It relies on everything else. It's not one thing that can isolate itself from beyond its own. It relies on everything else. It's inter. What do they call it? Inter. I've heard something like that. So all the images are there appearing to be real. And we take them to be real.

But a little bit of investigation you'll see that they are not. As they appear to be. That's why they tell you the false cannot stand up to investigation. And it can't. And you've investigated a lot of things in your life. And you'll see they haven't stood up to it. Go down to the ocean and I'll see, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea and say don't be an idiot. Because you know the sea water's not blue. Water is not blue. But you turn away from it it appears to be blue. But knowing the truth about it you're free of the belief.

No matter how many times you go down you can be amazed and wonder at the beautiful blueness of it. But you know the truth. It's not going to take you in. Like when people stood on the shore years ago and looked out where the sea and the sky met. They were told don't go out there you'll fall off the edge of the earth. And they were afraid to leave. Go out away from it. Who'd be afraid of it today? Nobody. Because you know the truth. Go up in the plains. Does the blue sky come in the ports of the plains when you're up thirty or forty and a hundred feet?

No. Because the sky is not blue either. This is space. Space is sky. This is space in this room. Where's the blueness? See a rainbow in the sky? Those colours appear to be there but there's no colours in the sky at all. They're only appearing. I've got a crystal in the window over here. When the sun comes around to the west it shines through that crystal and the light on the wall breaks up into lights on the wall. Hundreds of little lights. Different colours. Go back and try and grab one off the wall. I can't because they're not there. Go over to the crystal and have a look and see if there's any light showing in the crystal.

There's not. It's clear. So when you investigate yourself along those lines and see that that's believed in person is not the reality. It never was and never will be. And realise that thoughts arise. Because what's your next thought going to be? You do not know. But you'll say a thought will come up and you'll say I think this thought. And as soon as you say I think this thought, what have you done? You've formed a thinker. The conceptual image you have about yourself. Me, Bob the Australian now thinks it's thinking. Thinking this thought. Whatever the thought was that arose. So now we've got thinker and thought.

Subject object. Isn't that duality? Subject object. And isn't that what our problem is? Dualistic problem. So we've started it immediately. We've learnt the words. And have a look at that. Can there be a thinker without thinking? There cannot be a thinker without thinking. And can there be the thought without thinking? There can't be. So this subject object duality begins with thinker and thought. Subject object. But there's only thinking. And Shakespeare told us years ago there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And thinking is a vibration. It's bound to vibrate into the opposite and see it. It's past, it's future, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating.

It's all a vibration. A vibration's a movement of energy. It's an intelligence energy. It's doing a lot. But we've labelled it me and me believing it's separate. And it starts to hear of all these religions and concepts. It starts to look because of the pains and fears and angers coming up with that sense of separation and division. It starts looking to try and read some of these scriptures. The scriptures came about from people years ago. They realised the true nature and understood it. But it'd be only someone in a small village somewhere. There wouldn't be many interested in it. It'd only pass it on to one or two or a few.

And some of those fewer get it and then well I can use this to make something out of it. So they put all sorts of they contaminate it and corrupt it and put all sorts of limitations on it and boundaries and say now you've got to become this. You've got to become realised or understand this. And you're free of all your bondage and all your fears and all your anxieties. So they capture millions of people get them into this conditioned existence. And they set a lot of these people up as saints, sages, saviours and seers. And they become the teachers or the gurus and worship them and such.

But what are they doing? They're setting up the messenger and worshipping the messenger and losing sight of the simplicity and straightforwardness of the message. It's the message that is important, not the messenger who carries it or doesn't carry it. It's the message that is the reality. And they tell you like in Taoism they say the Tao that can be spoken of is not the truth. It tells you in the in the the great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything is clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction however and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

If you wish to know the truth hold no opinions for or against anything. Hold no opinions about it all. Leave it as it is and let it express as thoughts come up and express. And if you leave the thought that comes up the spontaneous knowing, the spontaneous functioning, it is the inner teacher. Intuition. What's tuition? It's the teaching. Intuition is what's inner tuition. And it tells you that in the scriptures. Thou shalt hear a voice behind you saying this is the way. Whether you turn to the left or turn to the right that guides you. That is what guides you. That inner tuition. And Einstein tells you that when he says I worked on this problem for weeks and weeks and months.

And all the work and thinking constantly about it. Never got anywhere. One night I went to sleep and woke up and there it was next morning. It dawned on me. And he tells you that also. He tells you that everything is energy. Supposed to be a physicist. There's more non-dual than non-dualist in a lot of the things he says. Tens of times of fiction also. When you look at these things that say it's so. And here we are trying to grasp it with a concept. And the psychedelicist says we try to grasp it with a concept. And we fail. He says you're bound to fail.

You can't do anything else but fail. Because it's non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any of the concepts or words on it. Just pure, natural, ever fresh presence awareness which is spontaneous. It's not time bound. Past is dead and gone. You can't live in the past. You can recall parts of it. You can't recall it all. And only the parts you can recall that you're giving to it while you're recalling it right now are the actuality. The rest is dead and gone. The future hasn't arrived. You can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do after you live in it. How you're going to think of it.

But that's not it either. It'll be now when you're thinking of the future. And this now is spontaneous. How long does now last? Well, before it gets any duration it is now, spontaneous. When you get the story into it, it has duration and will last for a long time. Without duration it just comes and goes spontaneously. Ever fresh, ever new. Recognise it. Know it for certain. Let it live you and be you as it is. And what is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. There's a certainty here of knowing that it is so. It expresses through this pattern and it's expressed through this pattern in all the other ways too.

There was concern, there was fear, there was anger, there was all the conceptual images that came up. But recognise for what they are and lose their sting. Become like a fangless tiger. They can chew away at you as they come up but they can't hurt you unless the energy of belief goes into them. Believe something and put that energy in. This is true. And what's belief? Look up your dictionary and see what belief is. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. The alleged has been told. It's real and take it to be real. Like we're told, I am Bob or I am Jane or I am Joe.

We believe it without questioning it. And take it on accordingly. Instead of recognising that you are the absolute, you are the great reality, the one without a second, you have always been and always will be. We get lost in this conceptual imaging. And it may go on for years, it may go on forever. But if you're fortunate enough when some of us are not satisfied the way things are going, we look at it a little bit further and you might come upon a teaching like this that will resonate with you. It will take you where you've got to go. And that's all that needs to happen.

Be open to it. Recognise it. And know the truth. So, if you've got any questions you can ask them. What they're saying or get into it. Whatever. No questions from the online community so it has to be you guys. Can anybody have any questions? Okay, carefully. Sorry. Julia. Yeah, it was a comment, not a question. Any other comments? We have welcome messages for few people. That's it. Good morning. All lovely expressions of the one essence, Tania says. Good morning dear Bobcat and everyone from Xanti. Hi all from Cathy. Good morning from Tudor. Donna, Alex. Yeah, that's it. So basically, Bob, you could say that Can you grab the mic?

You could basically say that it's not what you've got to get. It's a constant thing of what you've got to let go. What you're going to? It's, the basics of it is that it's not what you have to get. It's what you have to let go. Just the simplicity of it is let go of the thoughts, let go of the emotion, let go of everything and that will help you sit in more in your own presence. So as you do that more then that... The clearer it becomes. The clearer it will become and that's what you're saying is recognising because then you've got an opportunity of recognising your true being.

So therefore, for me, I think then you don't, no reading any more books, no listening to so many things, just letting go as the appearances arise. And then your own freedom is waiting. Well it shows itself then in the, when there's no chatter going on, in its clarity. There's no clouds in the sky and it's much clearer, isn't it, without the clouds? Yeah. Without the thoughts in your head it's much clearer. The recognising, the knowing and there's a chance for more and more clarity to come up. Happens by itself. So instead of have, so it's kind of a, it starts off as a practice, for me, is stop being fascinated with my own thoughts.

Rather because if I go into struggle, it's dualistic. Someone's battling. And thoughts will come up. No. If they can be useful, utilise them. If they're not useful, don't attach to them. Don't fixate on them. It's a practice. Yeah. It's a natural doing. It's not a practice really. You'll want to do it without doing it back. Who's this happening to? Happening to me. But wait a minute. If I don't take delivery of it, leave it as it is, what happens? See. Find whatever is appropriate. Natural response. Instead of a reaction. Things like that. Life lives on life. How do life while life comes? You are the life.

So you have to become aware of the mechanisms. Are you unaware right now? Yeah. What are you talking about becoming aware? Yeah, so I... See that's a trap. So I'm aware right now, obviously because I'm alive. Without that I wouldn't be aware. Yeah. However, because I've had habitual tendencies from two up to now to to recognise and being able to let them go it's actually letting go of habits. Yeah. Well that habit that I was doing, this was after needs to go also. Who is the I? Right. Habitual tendency. That's it. Habits can be broken. Don't fixate on them. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We've got one question now from Tanya.

She says so the me is just a memory, a pattern of thought. Yes. Yes. It's only a memory, an idea, a concept, a word. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Can you have a me without a thought? You can't have a me without a thought. But the sense of presence will be there. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Thanks again Bob. I love the simplicity of this stuff. What came up for me is it's the emptiness that's doing the cognising. The emptiness is cognising and I think the trick can sometimes be falling into the me and I think that it's cognising or I'm aware or I'm knowing and seeing that I that thinks it's aware sort of thing.

It can be a real close tricky one that tries to claim awareness. You're quite right because that's what the thought is. It's a cognising emptiness. Emptiness is forming all these things. Yes. We think we cognise the emptiness and so we know. It's direct. It's so direct. It can't, it's yeah, direct's not even a word. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Um. Yeah, because it can get very subtle that me trying to claim it I think and yeah. It certainly does. Sorry? I say it certainly does. Yeah. So, let's for example today or the other days I recognise that I feel lonely. That's a thought as well isn't it?

Can you speak up for me? So, lately I felt like lonely. So I had that, that's a thought as well isn't it? Being lonely. The sensation. Yeah. It's becoming the feeling or the sensation. Yeah, feeling. And you put the label on lonely. I think you're isolated and alone. Yeah. Separate. That's a thought isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's not real. The sensation, the feeling becomes not real either. So, if you don't put labels on makes it more real because it's just a sensation. Just what is. Yeah. Without the label it's just as it is. And not accepting it. As is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No preference, no partiality, no comparison.

Not attaching anything to it. Leave it as it is. Leave it as it is and accepting as it is. Pardon? I think there's something in me that doesn't want to accept it and then put the labels on and see I don't want to have that sensation. You can put labels on but if you understand the word label's not the thing. Yeah. If you go into Myers for a shirt and come out with the label you wouldn't be happy would you? You want the shirt itself. See the label's the only words we put on it. Everything is just as it is without the word. You go to that sensation that we're calling sensation and notice it without a word and just be with it?

Well, can you then go to what you don't want to the resistance of that? The not wanting. Or just be with that if that's what's there. Yeah, if that's what's here. Well, but now you're labeling it but just stay with the actual rawness of it. And is it a problem if you don't go into the thoughts about it? All conflict arises when you fixate on a thought. The biggest thought of all is the thought that you're separate, that you're a me. And then you have the response to that me. Me is lonely. Me, as Bob said, is separate. You know? And so that's where the conflict in you arises.

Is it the identification or the fixation on the thought that you're a me that's separate. And then everything that comes with that is a response to that me. That's exactly right. So that's the core. You know, when you actually see there is no me, all the other things that go with it drop away. But old habits die hard. We have a habit of feeling separate. We have a habit of having all the other things that go with that identification with that me. So are you that me? Can you find it? If you sit down can you find where that me begins and ends? Or is it only a memory of you?

Can it only live when you think about it? Just have a look at that. So yeah, that's it's quite easy to understand. Um, like, it's logic. But There's no lights. Bob was talking about it at the beginning. What was that? He said, but. Oh, I know. Okay, I recognise it. Can I say what Joseph's saying? Explain to me if this is I don't like the word correct, but more true. Sometimes feelings arise. Say for Joseph explained, say a feeling of loneliness. He's not sitting there thinking but old impressionable feelings arise. Sensations. If they arise, they are physical. They're there. Therefore, you don't go into the story of I don't have people.

I don't know where it came from. But rather you see it, you acknowledge it for sure because it's there. And then the process of letting go. Because in the first discussion we have it's about letting go. So having even a way of seeing it, thanking it because it is coming up and why things come up is to be let go. You know, it's to be let go. All sorts of things will come up from the memory bank. Not even fixating on thoughts but on feelings. So as that feeling comes up, you witness it, you see it, you thank it and then you just breathe it away.

Just give it a technique. To help you. Breathe it away. So then you get back more to your own divine self. And even you know, I have a tendency when the old impressions come up they just arise and I see it and I thank it because I think you've come up to help me let you go and I hand it over to so called divinity. I don't say an eye hands it over. It's just breathing it in. Thinking it and then breathing it out. And in time, then you don't get caught in the thought process. And as you clear the way, other things come into like Bob said, through intuition.

Suddenly you know, I had it yesterday. Will I when I go and see Bob? A little voice says, oh no you can go down and, but because I've been really trying to understand this intuitively while I'm sitting here. I'm very glad. So intuitively things will come as you clear. But be, you know, accept it and thank it and breathe it through. And I say hand it over. But you know because it's there. It's not as though it didn't arise. But a thought process getting too conceptual you get locked back into it again. So that's what I Do you understand that Bob what I'm saying? Yep.

So I kind of work with that. Because I think we need something to help. Yeah and you know, rather than coming out and saying that you know, it's a horrible feeling. It's actually not your feeling. What you need is connection. And actually you don't even need that because you are connected. Okay. Got a way of looking at it too. Look at the word, lonely. You're isolated but you're not take the L off it. What is it? There's the one essence. And you're not going to be the isolated form anymore. If it's the one essence it's everywhere, every when, every how, every why. And you don't have to put the conceptual image in that I'm isolated and make the story about that.

Just realise it's still only the one. Question here from someone. Actually Tanya is saying to the previous conversation about the meaning of the word. Me being a pattern of memory. She says exactly Julia, no thought, no me. That shows the me is false and what remains is more essential. More what I am. And regarding the ideas like label and feelings you have the two creatures here permanently in a natural state, never develop the I. One sitting in a chair there, blackened. Another one lying here, pesto. They're cats. Guess what happens? Guess what happens when the sensation of being lonely comes upon that natural state abiding presence.

So I tell you. Pesto will walk and sit himself on Bob's lap. If Bob happens to be watching something on YouTube pesto will come and walk over the keyboard and find the way to actually just medicate, self-medicate. Whatever the sensation is it is an information from the whole system that if there is an action required there is an impulse to take action. If there is no action required or no action possible let's say we are not home and we don't have cameras, some people do that to watch their cats. But I can tell you what happens, especially with this one when we are not home and she cannot medicate the loneliness.

She just keeps lying in that chair sometimes for hours and hours. That is, that are the true teachers. They don't have concepts of what I have to do now. Oh I have to do this, oh I have to do that. Because they didn't develop the idea of I that have any power to do anything whatsoever. So they just see what naturally comes up. Let's say sensation came up naturally. Sensation has been recognized naturally. The label to the sensation came up naturally. And then action follows or action doesn't follow. And this is the course of action. Non-doing because there is no doer, there is no self, there is no separate self who would be able to do anything whatsoever.

And now of course what you Maureen were saying and other people, letting go is not an action. It is the cessation of action really. Because active resistance kind of feels like action even though it also arises naturally. To actually amplify the need for action perhaps. But recognition, the cognizing emptiness, being that space like emptiness which is aware of whatever comes through. That's the only thing that's happening. Now if going to the story also happens and resistance amplifies, that is also just to be recognized and left alone, just left alone. See if it leads to action or if it leads to more of a noticing. See, just see what happens.

See what life does. Life does the life thing and see what it's going to do next. That is that simple. It's not a set of tasks that we all have to possess. It's not a question that we have to get the answer and then follow religiously. There's really nothing to do. It's just recognizing what is already present. Recognize that even in the presence of tension, there is a part of knowing which is already relaxed. From the relaxed state you know the tension. Otherwise there's no knowing tension from tension because that tension is all there is. How would you even know? So just recognizing there is a part of you which is already in that natural relaxed state which is aware of the sensation arising somewhere as tension and label arising with it.

And it becomes a fascinating journey of just witnessing a miracle of arising. Whether the arising is comfortable or pleasant or not. You are the space-like cognizing emptiness just delighting in the show. And there won't be only pleasant sensations. Ask those pastors. This morning, poor pastor, he climbed over my shoulder and dived down and practically put his head into his bowl of water. I don't like water. It wasn't pleasant. You should see him shaking. And licking his fur. But that's what life is. There is cold sometimes, there is hot, there is pleasant, unpleasant. But being free for all of those things to float through, that's joy.

Even being free to experience the resistance and labeling and taking credit, all of it. Just, ah, thrilling. Just like thinking one of my favorite cat quotes of when I was feeling sad. And she didn't say this, of course, to help me not feel sad, but it really did. I don't know. I don't know if my cat had died. You're telling me why I can't hang. I'm sorry. I was saying, I was thinking of my favorite cat quote as she was talking. And she didn't say this to make the pain go away or whatever. But I was feeling sad when my cat died. And I mentioned it to cat.

This cat. The other cat. It was the kitty cat that died. Okay. She said, couldn't you be grateful for sadness? Because without it, you wouldn't know joy. And just right there, like, you don't want to feel sadness. You want to. I didn't want to, but with the, just wow. I wouldn't have joy if I didn't know. Wow. Then boom. Like, gone. The grief, the sadness, just, and all I was just left with was just, just this. Aren't we lucky? To be here? Sadness is love, and loneliness is also love. Yeah, that's right. It's all love. Can't be anything else. Sorry. Um, I want to ask about death.

Um, so, when death comes, are we supposed to be happy, or sad when death comes? You won't know anything about it? Whose death are you talking about? And who wants to know? So, you, I mean, am I supposed to be afraid of death? Or am I supposed to take it like... Well, most people are afraid of death. But where, if you understand and reckon, where are you going to go to? You're going to come out of space, everything goes back into space. Pattern, shape and form break down, but the natural space itself, the life essence has never been corrupted or contaminated in any way, shape or form at all.

There is only life. That's all there is. So you don't remember your first breath, because you had no words. You won't remember your last one. But the story about it goes on. We can be worrying about it for years beforehand, and going up till the very last moment. But the moment I couldn't care less about it. There's only this sense of presence, this high amnesty that was born. And I can die to that right now. Hard to say if you've got as much interest in it, but test it out. And that is really the same question that we ask about the future. What if I fall sick?

What if I lose my money? What if my children will get into trouble? What if tomorrow is going to be raining? What if... This is the whole idea of engaging with the narrative with the thinking to escape and disengage with the present happening. Because you're not dying right now. And you're not sick. The thing is projecting the future. How am I going to feel about my own death? How am I going to feel about my children's death? Or my parents' death? Or about... How am I going to feel? Well, how about let's find out what comes up naturally. Because life is just like this spontaneous unfolding.

There may be moments when the thought of that will cause fear. There will be moments when the thought of that causes curiosity. But either way the thought of that is always to take attention away from the thought of this, or from experiencing this. From being alive in the moment. Thinking about what is not happening. Dying is not happening. Retirement is not happening. The war of fight or whatever is not happening. So thinking about what's not there instead of really being fully fully alive in this moment. And I think we also have another couple of comments. One from Xanthi. Cats are great gurus. They show us how to relax and just be.

Isn't it? And memory plus presence isness. That says Amarna. And forgetting our self is death. I am the body mind idea dies nothing more just like a dream. And I'll just add this. There is no need to project fear of dying. Because a lot of people are terrified. And that is suffering. That is unnecessary. Because as Bob said Are you afraid when you go to sleep? And the sense of me goes to sleep. In a deep sleep there is no me. There is no problem. There is no fear. And in that manner death the dissolution of the consciousness is the final awakening from the dream.

So now is nothing to fear because there is no one to experience the consequences of dying. Because the one to experience it is the pattern of you know electrical stimulated whatever memories. And that pattern is no longer there. So there is nothing to fear. Is it something to look forward or be happy about? Again, first of all is nothing nothing that is happening right now. Let's find out. I mean the near death experiences of people who went through it. You can go first if you like. Who knows? You first. He said you can go first. What does he say? You can go first to Kat.

Somebody else will move in here. I have a motorbike I can do that. Yeah, it's good to just be free about even that. Even about that final so called final and the most dreaded situation. Just be open and see. Just be curious like every moment. Because even if you are you get the answer. Even if someone tells you you should be happy. Because people who had 5 ME or DMT or they went through car accident or they went through surgery or whatever. And they had the bliss of joining and bliss of the solution. And there was a bliss beyond all understanding. And they are absolutely certain for the rest of their lives that death is a culmination.

Like this whole living is a foreplay. It's an ultimate orgasm. Oh yeah, now you can look forward to it. But that will still be somebody else's story. How true is that? If that is just a story told from one person to another. There is no answer that could be given verbally and you could adopt it and take it and believe it. Because you only believe it when you are conscious and when somehow the conditioning resonates with the belief. And you can get a couple of coffees and you can get doubts or you can get drunk and forget. It has no value. Belief, the philosophical concepts in it no value.

They all are to be recognized for what they are. Just the clouds in the sky and the sky is ignored. No answer, no verbal answer could be freeing. Although it may seem like this if someone tells you that Jesus loves you in that bubble of believing it may change the experiencing to more pleasurable. But that is not a freedom. Because now you depend on those you slave to those concepts. And if you forget them you are back in the misery. So that is not there is no freedom in believing anything. But that is a good question to ask. That is the question. That is a really good question to ask.

Because it takes guts it takes curiosity to even look into that finality that magnitude. Like what does it all mean if we all are going to die in 20 years, 50 years well definitely in a couple of hundred years not even our ancestors may remember there may be no earth anymore. So what does it mean whether I wake up and I have the answer. That is a good thing to ponder on and reflect on. And that really brings down all that importance given to thinking and philosophies. Good question. Death is the ending of a story. Isn't it? Are you a story? Or are you that which is aware of stories?

I remember my dad died just noticing that as I thought of him I had descriptions he was sweet funny, easy going light hearted fun to be around loving and compassionate kind and I was thinking about him and then it occurred to me all these thoughts that I had were labels and descriptions and I was thinking that's what he was he was to me a description but is he that? And then I could see well he's not that neither am I not that and it was so helpful when he did die there's a quote that's coming up a coward dies a thousand deaths a courageous man only one I killed him a thousand times in my head before he died like literally like at least a thousand because I was always worried it was so much harder before he went because I was constantly in my head about what was going to happen and it's coming and how am I going to deal with it when it happens when he goes when you go it's fine much easier but it was somebody it was watching him go and and when he did go it helped so much was some questioning actually I met Bob and Kat three days, two days before he died like it was the last time I saw him was right before and when I decided to go and I just like this story it's a fun story I decided to go and visit the body because as ironic as it is I know that by trying to facilitate grief I'm not allowing grief but nonetheless I thought oh it will help with the grief so I went to go and see his corpse because he died while I was on an airplane coming home and the first thought in my head I was telling Zuma earlier today was now I know why they call them stiffs that's a word they use for dead bodies you know stiff but the second thought that came up was that's not proof that we're not these bodies I don't know what is and what helps so much when I found myself in moments of longing and missing him and this one question just helps so much can I find where we're separate take a look like it's got to be genuine look but that question wow you know I never can and there he is here he is well he's no him so and that death thing again this is a belief I like the belief this belief I kind of like this alright it was a belief that I heard this one lady said she said if anyone knew how beautiful death was there would never be a death penalty ha ha ha okay like how amazing and I don't know that what you are never dies because your life itself you in so this death is just the ending of a story and that primarily says first she says no I don't we are lucky thanks Bob and cut and then I'm an assess forgetting ourselves as death I am the body mind idea dies nothing more just like dream fixation of any thought is real death and Gilbert says a simple suggestion is to watch the mind and see how it operates if you keep following thoughts instead of observing them then it will all remain as it is and that's what we are looking for in the book of the book of wisdom and on Gilbert's and Kathy can we find where we are separate no so what about prayers like you we call for SCHNeid and Seulus or がん??

you wake up and then you pray, you meditate. Do we still need to continue doing that? Like, it's like a ritual. Like, you know, if you don't pray, if you don't meditate, you feel one kind, like, oh, I have to pray, I have to do this. If you know who you are, what are you praying for and who to? So if you know who you are, what are you praying for or who to? Do you get that? Yeah. Isn't prayer often like a not accepting of this? Isn't it? A lot of time I think, I mean, if there's anything to pray for, it would be to let go of the me that can think there's something wrong with this.

And there's no me and God. Yeah. How about expressing gratitude in a prayer? That's how people pray sometimes. That would be probably the best prayers. Yeah, gratitude. Gratitude. For knowing who you're not. If you want to do that, that's fine. But there's no me and God. Because, again, that's duality. That's the pairs of opposites. It's a hard nut to crack, but you'll get there. And there's no one to meditate. No, that's right. Nobody meditates. I think that's kind of like... Meditate on the meditative side. Yeah. Who does that? That's... They're separate, so they need to get something. And Bob says, take away the word supreme, take away the word human.

What have you got? You've just got being. So there's no supreme being and there's no human being. There's only beingness or being. So knowing that, why would you need to pray? Why would you need to pray to something? You know what I mean? I'll just add the disclaimer, because this doesn't mean that it is wrong to sing a song, for example. Some people get up in the morning and their morning ritual is to sing under the shower. It is as harmless as praying to God. Give me this, give me that. Oh, thank you for this, thank you for that. Singing under the running water or doing morning stretch.

Some people sit and meditate. Some people do yoga. There is absolutely nothing wrong with, again, having that attitude of curiosity or, as Gilbert says, watching the mind. See what naturally spontaneously arising. The prayer may be arising. The meditation may be arising. There's nothing wrong with that. The idea that we have to do that has a lot of presumptions behind. Now if I have to do that, I'll force my children to do that for their own good. And now if I have to do that, it means there is an I that is obliged to some external agency that I do it for, or some goal that I do it for.

So this whole storyline about I have to meditate to become enlightened, first there is an I. Then there is some sort of an obligation, meaning I am the doer and I have to do what I need to do. And then there is enlightenment, which is not right here right now, because if it was, I wouldn't have to do it. I wouldn't have to do that. So it is somewhere else than here and sometime else than now. There is no other time than here and now. So there is an imagination of the future and the action. And all that storyline basically completely defeats the purpose of sitting beautifully in the peaceful, joyous quietness of the heart and experiencing life as it comes, because that is what is the spontaneous non-meditation.

The spontaneous. The spontaneous natural state in which you see the cats there. Well maybe that is meditation too. Yeah, absolutely. You can call it whatever label you like. But see the difference. The agenda versus the content. Well it is the content you are talking about. It is the content you are talking about. And when we talk about meditation like in this room, we are not actually talking about the content. But if you are talking about the content of it, and the content of it is just being, that is a good thing to do. Not that you can do it. It is moving. Try to stop it.

Okay, forget the words. Okay, I need to use words, cat. But it is a good thing to do in the sense that it is getting away from the duality of this and that and thinking. Yeah, of course. Of course. There is absolutely nothing wrong with spontaneous presence that is spontaneously arising. But the moment when you actually tell yourself a story that you have to do it, you have to force others to do it because there is something to gain in future. That is not it. That is not it. And I love what the, you know, I know this is taking it back to duality, but I love what it says in the AAB book.

It says, never pray for yourself. Only pray for the knowledge of, you know, we have got to use words here and I am speaking dualistically, but only pray for the knowledge of his will for you and the power to carry that out. So in other words, you know, you are basically saying you are powerless even in that non-dual sense. You are basically saying, you know, you can do it all and direct me. You can do it all. You can do it all. You can do it all. You can do it all. You know. Because there really isn't a me. So if you are praying, don't ever pray for yourself because there is no self anyway.

And, you know. But if it is a habit to do a ritual, enjoy it. You know. Sargadatta used to sing with the people in Bombay doing bhajans, you know. But he knew who he wasn't, he still did it. You know. Um, and it. But if you do want to pray, never pray for yourself. Firstly, there isn't a self, and it's just another form of self-centeredness, praying for yourself. It's like Bob says, or you say, Kat, both say, life's doing you. Life's doing you. So whatever happens, if you're praying, if you're meditating, or whichever direction you're going, life's doing it for you. And maybe that's, I started by meditating.

When I was younger years, I was all over the shop, emotionally all over the shop. And luckily I came across meditation, and I liked it, be still and know that I am God. So it helped me sit in the stillness and observe, just observe the thoughts that I was having, just observe them. So that process helped me develop a big sense of self-awareness. And I think that's a bit of a choice. I don't have to go there. So like you say, life's doing you. And I think, and I'm very grateful that that time meditation came into my life. And even today, it's the first thing I do in the morning, is be still in that little, be still with gratitude.

And I do, however I got there, I don't know. But I'm grateful for that. So I kind of think, whether it's praying, or 12 steps, or whatever, I'm grateful for that. And I think, and I'm grateful for that. Or 12 steps, whatever life's bringing, it's bringing you somewhere. And I think, and I'm very grateful for that. So like you said, if you're doing it because you want to, good and well, not because you have to, because if you think this has gotta be it. But it's still kind of a process, life's process. Yes, seems like it. Seems like that. Yeah, because, and if it's helping you, or giving more peace, or letting peace arise to true nature, Yeah, absolutely.

Like yoga. Nothing wrong with practicing yoga. Whatever arises. Whatever arises. You grab it, Vincent. That's how I look at it. Grab it. Another part in the big book I love is, it's helped me from being selfish, self-seeking and frightened. Because basically, that brings to attention again, that anything arises is about the self. And what Bob's saying here is, there isn't one. But if the practice is to help you point back to the truth of your own being, whatever it is, go for it. Yeah. You know? I think whatever works for you, not that there is a you in reality, but whatever the pattern is that makes you, you know, relax into that beingness that you are, which is all you are, go for it.

But in actual fact, you don't have to do anything. In actual fact. I'll just add that... Yeah. ...the fantastic byproducts of practicing meditation. It's not going to make you become enlightened because there's no you to become and there's no enlightenment per se. But meditation is such a wonderful skill to have that even if you were to force it on your children, like you force on your children to go to school, well, that would be also what life does. I mean... Contempt it. Look, even actually... ...the concentration of focus, training a little bit of that attention to be more still, that's invaluable. They are fantastic, fantastic healing that happens within the body.

Fantastic byproducts of the meditation. It's just the story which gives you false promises and keep you in future, that is what is unnecessary because that creates suffering. That creates the self-evaluation. Now the sitting happened. And now I compare it. Oh, did I get it? Did I get there? Did I improve? Am I closer to this? Or, you know, that all stuff defeats the purpose of simple exercises, the different ways of meditating. Or like Cole was saying, rather than having an exercise of attention, an exercise of concentration or focus, just be with absolute silence, nothing there. That's beautiful. That's absolutely gorgeous. It's happening always underneath that layer of narrative.

And... ...but even the techniques, techniques like vipassana or techniques like... There is plenty of different options, mantra meditations. They all have fantastic results like when you learn skills, you know, you learn cooking. That's a fantastic skill to have. Or creative writing or painting or exercising. They're all wonderful skills to have. It's absolutely nothing wrong in doing anything. And as it often happens, as you say, Maureen, it helped you a lot in different phases and different moments in your life. It did me as well. And it did Bob. Life has put it on our path. And who knows? Perhaps it did contribute to the ease of focusing or precision of articulating.

Who knows? We don't have the parallel universe in which that part didn't happen. But the thing is, the only thing is, do you have to? And I love what you said, Jane, with the prayer, you know? Because naturally, the way we start as seekers is from that dualistic perspective of me and the Supreme. And now I want to be one with the Supreme. So if I really do want to be one with the Supreme, Supreme knows that, obviously. But I may not. But I can pray, really, to make myself know and remind myself that longing for the Supreme. And ask what the Supreme wants. Not, oh, God, give me a million dollars.

No, God, give me whatever you want for me. That's just such a beautiful, natural way of twisting the dualistic mind approach into a surrender in love. That is so beautiful. I loved it. Thank you. And I love the, if you don't mind me indulging, my... Yeah. ...is the third step prayer. I mean, it says it all. God, I offer myself to thee to take with me and build with me as thy wilt. Please relieve me of this bondage of self that I may better do thy will. Take away my difficulties so victory over them may bear witness to those I may help of thy power, thy love, and thy way of life.

May I do thy will always. Well, a gorgeous prayer. Oh, it's beautiful. It's just beautiful. So it's basically, I'm nothing. Yeah. I'm no thing. That's basically what that is. So I say it as I am no thing. Yeah, relieve me from bondage of self. Beautiful. I just wanted to mention something before we say goodbye. Oh, yeah, why? That some of you may notice that we... Oh, yeah. You came here an hour a little bit late. It's because Australians just changed our clocks. So if you're in the United States and maybe watching this, tomorrow Bob's going to have his Zoom meeting. Just remember to come an hour earlier because we just changed our clocks.

And that'll happen again next month. The time will change for the meeting when you change your clocks. That's it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So I have one last comment. It'll be 9.30 here. What? 9.30 here, yes. But in America... It'll stay there. Our time will still be 9.30, but there it's going to change. They're going to have to figure out a different time. Yeah. The next one will be the other one. More proof that time's an illusion if we can change it, huh? I have last one, last comment before we go. says, I attending to I. I attending to personalities, things, and thoughts. Which option we give to the other?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And then after 11 to 12 and I don't know, it's going to be 9.30. So you'll have to figure out when it's time. I think... Yeah. But it's been a great experience. Thank you. Yeah. So, if you want to give one more comment at the end of the interview, you're all welcome. We'll see each other at the end of the interview. Nice falando. That was fun. Nice.