We've taken on the belief and suffer accordingly... Sailor Bob and Sangha. 25 Sept 2022

Hinduism, non-duality means not dual, not two, one without a second. That's what it basically means, describing there's only one life, one essence, one intelligence energy or whatever you like to put on it, that's a patterning, shaping and forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. Only that. That is all there is and we've taken on the belief we separate and suffer accordingly because of that sense of separation. Come along here and investigate and see for yourself, but what they say is true, the false cannot stand up to investigation. So that's what we look into and see this idea of being a person. . . . a separate entity, an individual, well even those words point out that there's a, if there's me or anything separate, it's more than one.

So we're basically on the wrong track trying to become something which was never anything other than that one. Always was, always will be, and it's all and only what could ever be. They call it all different labels, call it God, the Supreme, the Atman, the Self, the Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotence, trying to point out this non-dual aspect. And so we, as our, in this body, minds, believe we are, we are separate, we are individuals, we are these persons, all based on concepts or words. They call it, one essence is absolute. And the absolute, you can't add anything to it, don't take anything away from it. Buddhism, they call it the great perfection.

Perfection is the same as the absolute, can't, nothing can be added to it, nothing can be taken away. And they give it here in one sentence there. The great perfection is, non-conceptual awareness. And as I say, in Hinduism they describe the invader, Sat Chitta Nanda, Nama Rupa. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness, or not unaware. Nanda is loving to be. And name and form, the body-mind, Nama Rupa, is Maya, it's illusory. So all these patterns we're sitting here in this moment are all illusory patterns. We call it a phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's all appearing, seeming to be other than as it is.

It is that natural essence. I don't use the term God, because you can get confused with that term, with the different traditions. We've all got different concepts or takes on what God is. Different labels. I use the term intelligence energy. But that's just another label also, that's not it. But I think it sits better. When I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellects. I'm saying take your leaf from out in nature, have a look at nature, and see the way nature is functioning. Earth rolling around the sun, seasons coming and going. Tides coming in and out. Droughts, fires, floods, viruses, all sorts of things happening.

Stars forming, planets forming. Implies there is an innate intelligence expressing, enabling it to pattern in all those shapes and forms. Implies intelligence, a knowing. And that's another way of putting the Satya in Ananda, is being, knowing. And loving to be. Or existence, consciousness, bliss. So are you existing right now? And of course you are. You'd say, yes, I'm existence. Are you conscious? Well, there's nobody here that's unconscious right now. You wouldn't be doing much about it if you were, would you? Or unaware is another way of putting it. You're not unaware right now. Anybody who's not happy to be, well, nobody of you would want to be dead right now.

So you're fitting that description. You are already that. So what is the point of trying to become something instead of recognising it and realising what you already are? And that's what we're doing. We have separated the inseparable, and divided the indivisible. Taking ourselves to be this separate entity, this individual. And we think we need to become this existence, consciousness, bliss, this being, knowing, loving to be. Instead of realising and recognising you already are that. Because that is all there is. Only that. And everybody knows that. The great mantra, I am that. Everybody knows that I am. So I am that. That is I am. I am is what?

A couple of words. Words express it. Translating that sense of presence. The awareness of being present right now. There's nobody who's unaware, so you must be aware. And there's nobody who is not present right now. Is there? Anyone here who thinks there's a past? Right in this immediate thing? No. You know that I'm not unaware, so I must be aware. I'm not absent. I am here. I'm present. So it's there before our very eyes all the time. We've taken on the concepts and beliefs we took on when we learnt language. And went to school. And reinforced them all. To be this person, this separate entity.

And in looking into this, we're trying to become what we call realised. Or recognise our true nature. And we think we've got to do all sorts of practices to become. But a simple look at the term becoming. Becoming is not being. Becoming implies a future time. But can you negate your beingness? Anyone who's not aware of being right now? No. You know for certain that you are being. We call ourselves human beings. And put the label on it, God. Call God the supreme being. So now instead of being, just being, the beingness, you know, you think there is a supreme being and a human being.

Two, take that word supreme off it. Take the word or the label human off. Try and separate your beingness. What can you say about yourself then? The only thing you can say about yourself is not describe yourself as I am. But instead of loading the I am-ness down, with all these different concepts. I think this or I think that and I believe this and believe that. Leave it for what it is. What is that I am-ness? A couple of words describing that sense of presence. The presence awareness. The knowing that you are. Somebody asks you who you are, you'll say I am Bill or I am Jane or Joe or whatever your name might be.

That's what your parents labelled you. And somebody asks you, you immediately fly to that and put the label on yourself. And so what do we do? We start believing in this beingness. This I am-ness. This word. Not the sense of what it represents. Not the beingness itself but the word. When you say I am Bill or anything, you've taken on this concept. You've taken on this concept and believe it. And so we get to this realisation or reality by repeating the mantra. What mantra are you going to repeat? I am this person. That's the one we've been repeating. I am this individual. I am this separate entity.

That's the one we've taken on and believed in. Our schools, society and people around us. Reinforce it and tell us. But they tell you in the scriptures that there's only one self. Not a personal self. One self. One Atman. That Atman self is the Brahman self or the Vishnu self or even the godliness of you. But the person is not the reality. The person is the conceptual image you have about yourself. Where does the word person come from? It comes from persona. The mask. The English. Ancient Latin I should say. Mask. So we got this. We are this person. So we got this mask of concepts with which we disguise and which is reinforced by our schools, society and people around us.

And we believed in it without question and we keep reinforcing it ourselves. We became one with it. We become one of the others reinforcing it ourselves. Until something moves inside you when everything is not going so well. We're unhappy and feeling and it dawns on us that there's maybe there's a little bit more to it than this idea of the persona, the person. It needs to be investigated. And they tell us that too. That you need to investigate. They call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It appears to be so. Like all around you, all these things are appearing as seemingly so.

Seemingly real. These appearances seem to be need to be investigated and looked into. Everything needs to be investigated and looked into. And seen. Whether it's true or not. Because they tell you the false cannot stand up to investigation. And if the false is investigation and can't stand up and falls apart what must you be left with? Well the false is the opposite of truth. Truth and... Of false are two opposites. So if one, you see through one, the falseness you must be left with the truth. And don't they tell you that know the truth another scriptural statement know the truth. Don't say know the false but know the truth.

And the truth will set you free. So there's your way out. Knowing the truth. Not to be trying to become the truth or become something this that or the other. But know that the truth and the false are two ends of the one stick. Or the two sides of the one corning. That are constantly coming up just like all the rest of your reasoning and thought. All based on words. Tells you in the Bible in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. All things were made by him. By the word. And isn't that what we're doing? We're putting words, labels on everything.

There was nothing made without the word. You've got to look into these things, these words. How many words were you born with? And you look at it. Can you remember your birth? And you'll realise people might say I remember my birth. But nobody can actually remember your birth. How could you when you didn't have any words? What could you do? You could have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a what could you say if you got no words? Even right now. Got no words what can you say about it? If you ask yourself what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it and drop that thought for a moment or two without the word can you say it's good?

Can you say it's bad, pleasant, painful or happy or sad? Anything at all of it? Not until you bring the thought or the concept of the word into it. And put these labels on it. And bring ourselves to be this conceptual image this word. Not realising that you are prior to the word. You're before the word. Because you can't remember your birth. If the word was there when you were born you'd be able to know what you were but you don't. And you realise you didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half somewhere about that age. When you begin to learn words your parents who have learnt words and their parents had learnt words and ever since the first words were spoken from where ever it was that we first began to learn words we didn't have any words.

So for that first couple of years of your life before you picked up any words you must realise you are prior to words. And words are thought. What's words? Sound. Noise. Movement. A vibration. A vibration is a movement of energy. And that's all a word is. A movement of energy. Vibrates from the sound coming through the voice box in this pattern like sounds. Words. Which we put into words. And have a look at those words. Are the words the actual? Are they real? Try and drink the word water. Try and swim in it. See if you can drown in it. And you realise you can't.

Not in the word. Take the word fire. Cook with it if you can. Heat yourself with it. Burn yourself. You can't. Air. Try and breathe the word air. You can't. So the word is not the real. But the speaking, the breathing, the heart beating and all the rest of it are going on without the word. If you pause the thought you haven't stopped breathing. Your heart hasn't stopped beating. So you can live prior to the word. And what's wrong with the word? Well when you investigate the word see how it vibrates being a vibration. You'll see it vibrates dualistically. Shakespeare told you that three or four hundred years ago.

When he made the statement there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And how do you think? Don't you think with words, ideas, concepts, images? And it's thinking in the opposite. It's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. And then we lose sight of our true nature. Our reality. The actuality. And we've taken ourselves to be a person. An individual. A separate entity. All those are words. But as I say if the word is not the thing are you an individual? Are you separate? Have a look and see. If I'm not using the concept of me, this and that or other than that.

Separate yourself from the air. If you believe you are this body. This body mind entity. See the body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. And you know you're not the body because you say my body. You need to realise there's something there that's enabling that recognises the body and is able to say my body. My mind. And you know it also says my house, my car, my coat, my shirt. Are you the coat, car, shirt? Or house? No. You know that. Well why do you take delivery of this concept my body? Because it's been parents told you you are this person you are this body mind entity and we reinforce it day in and day out without investigating it.

And so we take it to be real. My mind. My body, my mind, my house, my car. If you believe in this mind that causes you all these problems. Who is it that's claiming this thing called mind? Show me a mind if you think the mind has caused all the problems. Show me a thing called mind. Can anyone show me the mind? When you investigate you see there's no such thing as mind. All it is is a concept. A thought. A word. A label. Which we call mind. And without the the label word, sound, idea, image what are you? A body made up of elements, earth, fire, water, space.

Take the air out of your body. Stop breathing. Take the water. The water is 60% water. Take the word fire. The body temperature. Your tuning of hypothermia. Without any of those things you're not going to live. So it's all those elements that are fashioning, shaping and forming this body and the life essence is in those elements and it's patterning shaping and forming that form which you call you. I use the term intelligence energy because it's functioning in an intelligence way. Not your intellects thinking this and thinking that and putting the conceptual descriptions on it. The same intelligence is rolling the earth around the sun causing the seasons to come and go the tides to come in and out the planets to form and deform the fires, the droughts, the floods and all the rest of it that goes on the viruses and all the thing that goes on in this manifestation.

All those elements suffused with intelligence or knowing can be broken down in intelligence is knowing not the known or what will be known but the knowledge. It's a vibration. It's all vibration it's all movement of energy. And Einstein will tell you that everything will be broken down into energy. It's all we are. It's that life essence or energy and Christ tells you that also and he says I am the way I am the truth, I am the life. People think he's talking about himself or he's Big Daddy or he's the last of all one he's the great one. He's not. He's talking about that sense of presence that translates as the word the word that we began with that I am-ness the sense of presence Go to that recognise that see what it implies where it's coming from and realise that I am that sense of presence I am that intelligence I am that awareness I am not unaware so I must be aware I am not an idiot so I must be intelligent I am knowing I am being and mind is word or thought imagination imaging in Nisargadatta tells you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination break it down to image, imagine and when the thinking's going on what are you doing?

and the thinking's going on all the time we're constantly creating mental images which we take to be real and because they're dividing into the opposites and seemingly dividing the indivisible pure intelligence energy we get fearful anxious, depressed guilty, unhappy all words, labels put on the sensations that come up the sensations, the thoughts the feelings and emotions that come up when we're thinking about it, all brought about by the thinking nothing either good or bad but thinking makes us so so we got into the habit pattern of believing we are these persons these thinking, these individuals and this is the cause of all our psychological suffering, the fear the anxiety, the stress the unhappiness, the depression all different labels different things the sensations or feelings we go into instead of recognising it's the one life it's the one essence it's the one intelligence energy it's the livingness the beingness the absoluteness of everything and you and I and everything else, everything is that and you and I are those things also what's it all appearing in how is it all coming about what's the basic screen on which everything appears and you realise that everything is the content of space have a look at space what are you sitting in right now aren't you sitting in presence space like awareness you're aware in that sense of presence you're aware But you're sitting in space.

Space is the closest thing to your eyeballs. It's all around you. It is no thing. You can't find a centre to it. You can't find a circumference to it. No boundaries to it. No beginning to it. No end to it. Space is no thing. Postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space. What would it be in? It has to be in space. Something cannot come from no thing. So if all this is the content of space and space is no thing, you and I and everything else are the no thing that's fashioning, shaping and forming and appearing as that. As that particular shape, form and pattern which we discriminated with the word which we labelled.

The word's not the real. The map's not the territory. The description is not the described. And that's all we're doing with our thinking. Making the word seem real. Making conceptual images with it. And thinking it will take us to where we've got to go. But when, where, how or why has it ever been anything other than that? One. If you say it began millions of years ago, what have you got to do with that? You're putting a concept on it. An idea. A word. It had a beginning. And I tell you it had no beginning until the word came about. Until we learnt these words.

But still, there's still nobody in this room who is unaware right now. You are aware. It's that awareness which is prior to the word. It's that awareness which is prior to the word. It's that awareness which is prior to the consciousness. Because consciousness comes up and the words are in the consciousness. Awareness doesn't know itself as a word. It's just a label. It's wordless. But it's the absolute intelligence energy in which passion shapes and forms all words appear. On it, which is in the consciousness. And that needs to be recognised. That me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. The cause needs to be investigated.

Who is the cause? As we take it from now, I am. We take it as I am because we never investigate it. I am is a concept, a word. And so, in the beginning was the word. When did you begin? Well, you realise you didn't begin somewhere. You didn't begin until you learnt words. Before you heard any words, even though you were there, you couldn't say, I am. You couldn't say, the little baby doesn't go around saying, I am. It's got no words. So that's when the beginning happened. That's when all your troubles happened. Little baby was functioning. It wasn't putting any labels on. And the fear and that couldn't be expressed.

But it's not saying it was painful or fear or anything. It was just another sensation. Which wasn't labelled as good or bad. But it would upset the equilibrium of the body, the way it's functioning. And we learnt all these words. Take these words to be real and beat ourselves up for it. But as I say, some of us get locked into the traditional beliefs and the religions that came about through people that learnt them. And we learn the words, but corrupting them, contaminating them, putting more beliefs and rules and regulations onto that which is. Spontaneous, absolute, and the actuality. And lose sight of the true nature.

And some of you recognise that this is not good enough. I've had enough of this fear of something. And it starts you to look a little bit deeper, a little bit further. And that's what happened in the old days. Traditions and different scriptures and that came about. People had recognitions of it and understanding. And fell into it naturally, inevitably. Tried to pass it on with the word. And did pass it on to a few, but others got locked into the words and the concepts and the rules and regulations. Gave a bit of insistence, but it wasn't good enough. Because the suffering was still there. You look into it a bit deeper and realise that there is only the one life.

The one essence. The one intelligence energy. And that pattern, shape and form that you call this body-mind is that life. Not the pattern, shape and form and the conceptual image you put on it. But it's the very life of you. The life goes out of that body. What have you got? You've got a corpse. And before it rots down, breaks down because there's nothing animating it anymore. The organs are still there. The eyes, the ears, the heart, the lungs. Everything is still there. But they're not a bit of good to you without that life animating intelligence energy or life. Like the computer's got all that information in it.

It's amazing. It's an amazing instrument. But what good is it if the power's not turned on? No good to you at all. And this body's no good to you without the life. And when Christ pointed out, I am the way, I am the truth and the life, people thought he was talking about himself. He's not. He's talking about that sense of presence. Which expresses through the mind as the thought I am. Which you can say, I can say. Which you can know. And I can know. I am. I am. Not the body. Not the mind. Not the person. I am the absolute. The great perfection.

The reality. The Atman self. The one self. I am that. That is all there is. Because it's one without a second. How can there be anything other than that? How can there be anything other than that? Why or how do you think you've got to become that? When becoming implies a future time. Investigate the concept of time. The false cannot stand up to investigation. It's true. When you investigate the concept of time and ask yourself, is it the past if I don't think about it? What can you say? If you have a look, what can I say without the thought? I'm in the past. Can't say anything.

It doesn't stay thought free for very long because the vibration, intelligence, energy, thoughts will come up. And habitually we've been focusing on the thoughts for years and believing in them for years. So they're more prominent than what the silence, the stillness, the natural state is. But it's there. It's there. And you've had taste of it all through your life. And that's why you realise there's more to it than this and you start looking into these things. And then you see it. As many of you see it. Say, I saw it. I lost it. Then I lost it. How could you lose something which is absolute?

What is the idea of losing it? Just the fact that more thoughts arose and the focus went into the thoughts and the belief went into the thoughts instead of seeing and recognising that that essence that you are is thought free. That's free of thought. That's not attached or connected to the thoughts. Leave the thought free, unattached. Leave it as it is. And recognise it. Know the truth and recognise that. Test it out. And that's the acid test of anything. Does it work? If you put it to the test and you'll see for yourself and know for yourself that nobody's going to do it for you.

There is nobody apart from the one life essence. And that is always and ever that obscured by the thoughts. Or as they put it in the scriptures, they call it ignorance. Just meaning not we're dull or stupid. We're just ignoring it. We're ignoring your true nature, what you already are. Simple thing. And you don't bother doing it. See for yourself. Well that's about it. Don't know where Kat's gone. She'll be back in a minute I hope. She's got the thing and the people that are tuned in on the... So add to it. And then you can all jump in. Those of you who know it can express it.

Those of you who've got doubts or questions, ask the doubts or questions. Somebody might say something that will resonate and make it clearer. So away you go. Yeah. I better. A couple of welcoming messages and we have a question from Tanya. And Tanya says, What is the best way to investigate a story, belief that is hard to see through? I've been looking for a while but still can't see the stories are false. And now Del is replying. He says or she... No, there is no you. If I am no thing, there is no story for me as a subject. Yeah, who's trying? You see it's the person, the self that's trying to become.

What will happen if you pause the thought and don't think about it? You don't know what your next thought's going to be right now. So do you think by trying to find a thought you're working out? Or won't the thought come up like it does? Nobody can tell me what your next thought's going to be. But the thought comes up. And you claim it. I think. Trying to investigate, it means you're using... trying to use that body-mind, that conceptual image. Trying to see the story as false. Yeah. Is there a necessity to see the story as false? If you see that the narrative, if you see it as a story.

I mean, you know, you can watch the Netflix movie, whether it is based on truth or whether it is based on the book. If you see the story for what it is, just a story, it doesn't matter whether it is false or true. And then again we go into the definition. What's true? What's false? Because things may be relatively true in the sort of a very narrow way of looking at it. Like you may say, oh, my story is that I have a 12-year-old daughter. And if you happen to have a 12-year-old daughter, then it's a relative truth to that story. How can you see it as false?

Well, first of all, the definition, the ultimate definition of truth is that which never changes. So your daughter wasn't true, that statement wasn't true when she was born and won't be true in her next birthday. The truth is the ultimate truth we talk about. Not about some relative philosophical concept, but the ultimate truth. The truth that stays the same regardless. So which story passed that test? Because everything constantly changes. The whole world constantly changes. Even the subject of the story is changing. So that's the... Whether to see the relative truth as false or not is really... a different topic. You could undermine the story because you can see how the story is always from certain perspective.

There is me and this is my story. So if there is no me, then that particular perspective is very limited and it's again not true. It's only a relative sort of thing. And the whole thing, isn't it? I think this is a sort of crucial point because I think this is a very crucial point where people trip up and it's tricky because we're so used to using our mind to fix things. But in the psychological realm, does that work? You know, like, you know, if we do the investigation and see that there really is no me, and that doesn't really require that much. But then we try and...

You know, the habit is to try and fix the psychological area such as suffering, or whatever, or something to do with the so-called me with the me, with the mind. And therefore you can't. That's just compounding it. But that's the natural, or the conditioned, I should say, tendency is to want to try and fix things. Which is okay in our daily life, in our practical, daily, technological life. We can use... We do use the mind and that's required. But what we do when it comes to the psychological area that we're talking about, the me, can we actually use the same mind to fix the mind?

And it doesn't work. You just... It's like a cat and a dog chasing its tail. You actually compound it. Which is something that we almost have to re-learn, because our whole conditioning of learning is to try and add, or fix, or do something with it. But to leave it as it is, like Bob says, to leave it as it is, is kind of... goes against our whole process. Which, you know, that's kind of something to really look at and investigate and to try. Good. They tell you in the scriptures that you will never get peace. Peace of mind. And they describe that as the peace that passes all understanding.

And that word understanding means it can't be grasped with a thought. Can't understand it. So just leave things as is. The peace is when the mind is not. Is it tricky to just... Yes. I must do this, or I must do that. Yeah. Does one just wait and see if it gets done or not? Yes. Or does one beat oneself up if it doesn't come about? Brilliant. That's what's happening, isn't it? Yeah. Actually, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a question. Actually, I've got something to say. What I noticed a while ago was how the mind is trying to fix an idea.

You know, it tries to say, this is how something is. And we kind of get stuck thinking that the mind has finally defined something for us. Yes, that is the truth now. And then five, ten minutes later, six years later, that truth that the mind has finally defined and tried to fixate. Like, I am a very independent woman. And then all of a sudden, you're crippled and you're relying on all these other people to do things for you. Yeah. So the mind, by its very nature, is always trying to say, this is how something is. And it never stays that way. So that's why Bob is saying that you can't rely on the mind to fixate.

You can't rely on the mind to define a situation. And say, this is how this is. This is the truth of the matter. Or this is the falsehood of the matter. It's beyond the mind. That's where truth lies. So if you just notice, it never stops. It can't stop. By its very nature, the mind isn't a stopping thing. It's something that is functional. You know, it teaches you to do this this way. Like if you're using it on a practical level, you know, I'm cooking. I'm making a recipe. I put two eggs in. And if I put two eggs in, it's going to work out right.

So it has a purpose that way. And we use the mind to communicate by saying, oh, we're going to call this thing here an egg. And we're going to call this thing here a hand. But all those things, they're just arbitrary. They're just things we've chosen to divide the totality so that we can actually communicate with each other. But like Bob says, the words, they're not the actual, you know. An egg is, what the hell is an egg? Look at it. Like, what's it made of? Look at it. It's more space. Everything is more space. The body that we call the body is more space than is, you know, a body, a concrete thing, you know, like, I don't know if you've heard about it from a physics perspective.

If you look at particles, particles are separated. Like in a football field, you have 20 balls bouncing around. That's space. That's what this really looks like if you magnified it to the size of a football field. So all these definitions and all these separations and all these, yes, that is the truth, that isn't the truth, from a mind point of view, is, there's no truth in that. There's nothing true in anything that the mind says. This is my daughter. I've called her daughter. And I'm calling me mother. And they're just all these terms. But what's really going on? What's really going on? It's beyond mind.

It's mind is, there's no truth in the mind. It's just a practical tool. I thought I understood her question to be asking. She's asking, if you're not, if you realize that you're not you, the personality, the identity, what was the question? It was, how to, actually, Tanya reiterated the question. That's what I'm asking. How to see that once and for good that there is no you? I look and just find sensations and can't see a body. Thought tells a story about the sensations, what is believed and seems to block the mind. Okay, well, the initial question sounded like what I was talking about in the kitchen where you realize that you're this person who has all these beliefs is asking the question, you know, about meaningfulness and all that last week.

And then, as I'd gone away, when that last caller last week said, who is asking that question? question who is the one asking what do you need you know about who's asking about fulfillment yeah and i went away and realized oh it's this person called gina who's asking this and that's this person called gina who's got all these beliefs and she's just a fiction but how do you once knowing that how do you be not that how do you be the i am that's you know that that was what i felt her question was when she first asked it but she's yeah but that but that's the thing i'm struggling with is like how do you once you realize your personality is a fiction and all the beliefs are just beliefs that you hold and they're the ones causing you the pain um is it continual questioning i mean is is it something that can be fixed once and for all as it's said is it yeah is it something that comes up bob is saying it's beyond the mind you yeah i know bob is always cold i don't care i've got too much on today what do you want yeah yeah it's it's hot i'll give it to you just sometimes um it's a big problem to see the problem comes about as soon as you say how to who's asking the question if i recognize that it's this person who needs to know um and i say there's no person yes then well what are you going to do not going to ask the question yeah without the question what's that and And this is what I feel like I've got this, I don't know, like a, again, a creeping, nagging thing that sits on your shoulder and says, well, it can't be as simple as just being.

You'll not get anything done. Yeah, well, instead of saying it can't be as simple as that, just pause that again and see. Let's see whether it can be or not be. Let it do its stuff. See, as soon as you say, oh, it can't be as easy as that, you put the concept up, the blocker, and just have a look without the thought. Yeah. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What are you going to do? Oh, then you've got to try and stop a thought. Yeah. But again, that's that nagging. The thing sits on your shoulder and says, you know, it's hard to shut that voice up without another voice coming in and saying, but you can't live like this.

This is boring. This is, you're not doing anything. There's no achievement in this. There's, you know, you'll stay in bed and not get anything done. And, you know, it's always stuff. It's a story. It's a story. But you're writing away with the story then. You're just totally lost in the fiction instead of just relaxing and just... You're just being, which may seem really boring initially. Yeah. But the funny thing is, you're not a me for your whole life anyway. None of us are a me anyway, and everything's got done. Yeah. We've never been a me, unbelievably. I know exactly what you're grappling with because, you know, that's how I felt when I first came.

And what it is is the habit of the mind. Yeah. The biggest habit is identification as a separate me. Yeah. Right? And so right here, right now, that me cannot live right here, right now. Yeah. The only place that me can live is in your memory or in the memory. Yeah. Right? In the memory. It's not your memory because there's no you. Ah. Right? And so this idea that you're separate, this me, is a memory. Yeah. And the memory of you... Yeah. ...is not the real. Mm. Right? And so the mind works in the pairs of opposites, as Bob has said many times. It's you, me, pleasure, pain, you know, happy, sad, etc., etc.

Yeah. But the biggest one is me and the other person, place, or thing. Yeah. Right? And what happens is the mind tries to figure everything out. That's its nature. Yeah. And it can only work in the pairs of opposites. Yeah. And it can only work that way. And the biggest identification is with me trying to figure everything out. Yeah. And that me can only live in the past or the future. Right here, right now, what's wrong? Nothing. Right here, right now, you just are. Right? But the habit... Yeah. ...is to think that, well, if I know that I'm not a me... Mm-hmm. ...I'm never going to do anything.

Yeah. ...I'm never going to go anywhere. I'm never going to... You know, you just watch that because... Yeah. ...you just watch that because the action figure, whether you have a story about what's happening or not, will act. Mm. Okay. Which it always has done. Which it always has done and always will do. We are actually life itself, or you can call us an action figure or whatever you want to call us. Mm. But we are life itself responding and acting. You know, that's what we are, life itself responding and acting when there's no story at all about us or anyone else. You cannot... You know, Bob used to have this great story.

This guy rang him up and he said, he said, well, you know, if there's no me... He rang him up from a phone box. He said, well, if there's no me, you know, I'm never going to do anything. Bob said, try staying in the phone box. Try staying in bed. Not doing me, but try doing that. Something will move you out of bed. Something will get you up. So we have this story that... Can we give him a light? Yeah. We've done all this... Yeah. We've done all this... Did all this stuff in the past. Yeah. So it's me who did all this stuff in the past.

Yeah. If there's no me, I won't do anything in the future. Yeah. But we take the past and project it into the future. Well, actually, I am at that place now. It's where there's just no... No purpose in my life. So I do do that. I stay in bed all day and I don't do anything unless I absolutely have to. I've set myself challenges to actually get here the past two weeks, which is... I haven't been to bed since I fell asleep. Woke at half past ten last night and didn't go to sleep again because I knew I'd probably be asleep and miss coming in today.

But what you were saying about the memory thing, that's really helped me because it's the memory that's doing this. I'm going to try... I'm going to bear that in mind and see what I can... Just realise you're not that. Yeah. You're not the memory of yourself and you're not the past or the future. Just what's here, right here, right now. No story. Can you grab the mic, Dean? That presence of... Sorry. That presence that you are, that breathes you at night, gets the body functioning, that, you know, that does all that without any story. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, a person with amnesia, for instance, they still exist.

Yeah. You know? That, you know, so now you've been given this incredible pointer to say you no longer have to be in bondage to this me that's only a memory. Also, I think it's quite common to think... It also ties in with free will. Like, if I don't have free will, then what am I going to do? What's the purpose? But there's still the belief that doing... is arising from the I. And when you realize that doing is happening just spontaneously, then you can just watch it unfold rather than think, I need to do this, I need to do that because it'll all happen organically.

And it's always, as you guys have been saying, it's always been happening organically. It's just that we haven't recognized that. That's the only difference. It's just a recognition. There's no doing. There's nothing different. It's just a seeing. And that's all the Buddha said is they asked him, are you a superhuman? Were you a god? He just said, I am awake and you are asleep. He's just woken up to that recognition that we are the infinite self and everything is just happening from that perspective. And you said something, and I think this is common as well. It's like when I recognize this, I need to stay there.

But that's just a fallacy as well, that you need to do something to stay there. You are already that. And the continual recognition will happen. Just continue recognizing, continue recognizing, and then it will stick. So right now, mind is sort of like awareness and thoughts are sort of all bundled together. But over time, as you recognize, as you recognize that awareness can just see the play and there's that continual, unchanging, omniscient presence. But it just takes the continual recognition. Just see when you start thinking, I need to do this. I need to do that. I'm depressed. I need to have a purpose. All right. Just allow that to happen and just watch it.

Just watch it with eyes. Don't analyze it. Don't think about it. And if that happens, that too is fine. Right. So I think that continual recognition and over seeming time, it can just sort of stick. Right. And being in the presence of someone like Bob, for me, we're talking here, but there's a deeper communication going on here with the energy. And you can also be virtual and tap into this. And then it's almost like this knowing can be imprinted on you. Right. It's not something you sort of philosophically work out and then magically, I've got it, you know, that is can be a path like Yoni yoga.

But generally, at least in my experience, it's more like just this energetic imprint and it's non conceptual. And then you understand it. That's why the James remark about the memory is really quite helpful. The mighty. Sorry. Yeah, it's really helpful because that's it's my it is. It's the memory that keeps me going around in these circles. And because I'm an analytical person, I've got to delve and dive and have reason and purpose and meaning and all, you know, all the drama that is me. This person I've come to know is me. So that's that's a great one for me to actually stolen from Krishna. That is it?

Yeah. It's a fantastic book. The second Penguin read of age one hundred and sixty three. The chapter on awareness. And it's Bob Bob and I know it well. We used to sit around every Monday morning and and read that, you know, for for about a year, you know, in the 1980s or early 90s. And it's just it really shows you really points to, you know, points out that, you know, the mate you you are not the. The me is a memory of you. And then there's there's the me. Then there's all the other alleged person places and things. Then there's the response. And it's all it's all created from memory from as Bob said, the word, you know, and it's also a surface stuff.

All this stuff is surface stuff appearing on that presence that you are. You know, it's all always going to be surface stuff. There's always going to be. But, you know, it's like I love the analogy of someone walking up the hill with a backpack. And, you know, you can imagine that backpack is all the thoughts and the identification with the me and then and then, you know, you're living in this world all of a sudden be told you're not the me. Yeah. And then little rocks get keep getting chipped out of that backpack and eventually you get to the top of the hill. And there's there's no rocks in the backpack.

You're just travelling lighter. You're just travelling lighter, you know, because you're not identifying anymore with the story of you that's been ingrained all your life. Yeah. Thank you. I'll just say one more thing from a physiological point of view. Look, they've shown that action actually precedes thought. So, you know, you think you get up off the chair and you say, I got off the chair. But actually the process. The process of getting up off the chair has started before the thought comes in and takes ownership of that. So even from a scientific point of view, that's that's reality. Right. Yeah. Yes. I saw I see that or I hear that you only you only say that when you question that, you know, the seeing and the hearing.

Exactly. The hearing is the thinking. And then you say I heard that. Could be. Yeah. Sorry. You did a great job as the boom up there. But yeah. So all those things are happening automatically. And then you call it into question. Oh, yeah, I saw it. Right. Whatever. Anyone else? We got a couple of comments from people who are online with us. And this is the answer to actually Tanya's question on investigation of a story belief. Peggy says there is aliveness undeniable. Just not. Who you think it is. And also what I think has been said already in many, many different way. The whole idea.

And I think Bob started saying it. The whole idea of asking a question, how implies how do I do it? I am the doer. I can do it. How? Tell me how and I will do it. Well, that defeats the purpose of nonjewelry. You know, the doer, you have no power. You recognize how things are already happening. Yesterday we had some devil's advocate making fun of Bob's pointer that relax, you know, as if I can relax. No, you recognize the deepest relaxation already being present. Space already being present. The presence already being present. The joy, the bliss of being already being present. Underlying that thick layer of a story to which habitually the attention focuses and just chew on it.

That's why her statement is so meaningful. It's the same thing. Story. Absolutely. Let go of the story. Oh, I'm sorry. Here's also the interesting thing is that there's also no one to realize. There's also no one to recognize. Right. Like it'll just happen. It'll just happen or it won't. Like it's it's already either is happening or not. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like, oh, I need to recognize. I'm the no self. Let me try harder. And you burst a bloody vessel in your head like like nothing you can do. And that's and it's the people in life. We're told you need to work hard to succeed.

Like it's a that's a program that we've embodied very viscerally. But in terms of non duality, there's literally there's nowhere to stand. And that is like the hardest thing to hear. Because, you know, if we look at it and this is sometimes the trap of a guru, you know, they, you know, they get the. Long beard and it's like, well, they've done something. They have something that I don't. And let me do all these things to try and reach that. And so in the spiritual realm, that trip can be the hardest. Like, please let me do something. I need to do something to realize. But it's just going to happen or it's happening or it's not.

Exactly. It's not even it's going to happen in the future. It's either here or it's not. It's either recognized right now or it's not recognized. So, you know, I think what's wrong with right now, if you don't think about it, is you immediately you've stepped out of the story. But the next impulse is to step right back into the story. But here and now you've recognized that there's nothing wrong or nothing needs to be done or said right now and then, you know, the habit is to go back into the thinking again and create time and what am I going to do? And then tomorrow in five seconds.

Don't you know, I think what we're up against here is like the whole. Conditioning of the world in our society, really. I mean, that's why not many people can hear what we're talking about here. In a way, it's quite radical because every other path suggests even very subtly a method. And if you break that down, a method is obviously comes from the mind. No matter how subtle, like what you were saying, you know, let me do something. And it's the habit of mind and the way we're being so heavily conditioned to believe that through a process, through steps, we eventually become, you know, and then people think, OK, I have to quieten the mind and that's good.

But then are we going to achieve that through a process and all the traditions in all the spiritual traditions, they they imply or suggest or give a process, especially if you give a lot of money. But, you know, and OK, you will achieve a certain level of quietness of mind through that, because if you start to still the mind, you'll find a sense of peace. But it actually doesn't cut through the fact of the person which we've been talking about here is just a bundle of thoughts. And no one really points that out very, very clearly. That the me is just a bundle of thoughts.

And that is time. It's all a concept and it's all very useful. But here to kind of unlearn the conditioning is all we're doing is to unlearn the conditioning that we've believed in to be true, which is so obvious, but very radical in the light of other. It is good to know that truth. But it's like what we're talking about before. That word. It's words. We use words to communicate with each other and and the functioning of society. We're all in performing some role. And then that role is given a whole lot of words and thoughts. And and that's all you should do this and I should do that.

That becomes the. The modus operandi that, you know, the belief in the separate self is the problem. Still, and it's quite like. Interesting that we're literally talking about nothing. Right. They're like, we're literally here discussing nothing. No thing, you know. And and it leads you to that. It like you left. And what we're talking about doesn't really leave you lead you with any philosophies anywhere to stand. And so and the reason I say that is because it also means that all those rituals and practice to achieve something that too is part of the one that too is fine. Because a little trap that can happen is like, OK, now I'm not supposed to do anything right because I need to abide as the non self and be happy with being.

But like, no, that doing is still part of the being like it. If it's going to happen again, it's just a happening. Right. Everything is the expression of that one essence. So recognizing that nothing is good nor bad. It just simply is as it is because I find that can also be a little trap like, oh, well, this person's meditating. That's wrong. Well, the minute you've said that's wrong, you've split it up into duality. It's like that's just is what it is like. That's that you've got to you've got to be careful in saying that. I appreciate what you're saying, but you've got to also be able to see that any kind of movement of thought is the problem.

You can't just lump everything together if you try to pick it. You have to pick everything I think before you can actually say what you say. OK, that is it, too. Of course, it's all it. But I think I think it's very important to distinguish between what is how the mind operates and what it does, how it just superimposes, but then to see that. Prior to all those thoughts, you know, I think in Bob's book, actually, it's got a really good line that, you know, to see that there is no thing. That seems there's no thing that seems just this. Incredible intelligence, energy or whatever you want to call it, that is actually doing this, knowing it's knowing it's not the thought we think that thought is the great thing, but it's just this incredible open space that knows that is intelligent.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was just thinking was as soon as you start thinking, you're not in the being. You're. You're in the memory. No, no, it's only when it's only when identification with the memory of me causes you disease. So the mind is always going to work in in or the memory is always going to work in the pairs of opposites. And to say that that that may that's, you know, having a story is actually erroneous. It's still thinking. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, thoughts will arise. Choices will be made, but there's no choice maker. It's not you thinking. It's just. The narration is the thinker is a thinker is a thought itself that you are the thinker.

That's what I was sort of meaning when I said about once you start thinking, you're not the seer anymore, the thinker of the sea. Yeah, it's like the sea. There's only the same. There's only seeing. There's no separate sea. Oh, sorry. You have to pick it. You have to pick it yourself. So it's like every every you know, every time you say something, you go, oh, there it is. Different for everyone. It is different for everybody. Well, it's also thinking occurs in the space and we are the space. We are the space in which thoughts arise. We are the space in which anything arises. We see just hear that concept.

Yeah. You know, every time. You get your oil. You'll have your own way of saying that. I'm in the in that sort of. So, yeah, that's right. Yeah. If you like, just use words, using words to point. Yeah. Bob has really helpful concept associated with this whole discussion about thinking, not thinking the energy of the life that's a concept, of course, because everything is one and the thought and that. And the energy of belief, you can see how much attention goes into that mental chatter and then you see how this attention is now unavailable for holding space for that mental chatter, you see the difference between just being that open field of consciousness in which the mental chatter happens.

But it's not focused into it's not really being attended to or fixated. Yes. And as the opposition, the mental habit. To switch off, you're seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, saying everything and just completely obsessed about the story. And that is because the story relates to me and is linked to the survival instinct. Oh, they don't like me. I don't get approval. I'm not getting fulfillment. I'm not happy. Now this becomes an obsession, the self-centered self-obsession, because all of that attention, which Bob calls energy of belief, is now trapped in the thinking. So the way recognition. Potentially is always there through the relaxation that recognition brings forth.

So it's really just stopping the activity. Not really stopping. It's not the me that stops. It's just really relaxing that attention out from that cloud of self obsession into the natural state of being open field of consciousness and being that field of being that space like awareness. It's already the natural state. That's that's something that hasn't been achieved. That's something that has been underlined. That movement of energy or the energy of belief flooding that idea. And it is happening by non action. It's not that me, the doer now will do this. Yeah, relaxation is non action. This is me. I work out how you do it.

And that's love. That's wonderful. You know, trying to work it out is also commitment to, you know, it's like James was saying and the brilliant things James was saying today. And one of this was, oh, Buddha says, I'm awake and you are not. This is the danger of the language. I have done something that made me awake and you are not. Now the love for the truth and the longing for that relaxed, natural state will bring up the narrative because that machinery is here to assist the whole, the whole by your computer. So it says, OK, I'll do it for you. Let me do it.

I'll find a way. I'll be looking for this for all my life. Because it's natural. That's beautiful. Let it let you know, like, say thank you. This is not the right tool for the job. It's not going to be able to find any solution. If you know what it is, it's a vibration. It's a movement. How can vibration or movement create stillness? Yeah, it can. It has to stop. I like it. Yeah. I think it's always me. Always come back to like, I'm already that. Like, I'm already that. I'm already prior to thought arising, coming out and creating a separate fictional character. I'm already prior to that event coming out and creating a dream of separation and stuff like that.

That's arising and dissolving and coming and saying that I'm not in that story at all. I'm already the space out of which that stuff. Arises and goes and and there's no judgment around any of it. If there's suffering, it's it's OK if it's like there's no. You know what I mean? It's all OK. But just seeing that I'm not that, you know, that story that comes out. There's nothing there. If you go looking for it, you can't find it. If you really have it like this can be a fact based like an FBI investigation. I mean, like an actual, you know, it doesn't have to be this esoterical spiritual stuff.

It's just like a factual. But it is, you know, this is esoterical. That's what. No, I know. That's what I'm trying to say. It can be very. It is, though it's not can be it is a factual. That's what I'm that's what I'm saying. Yes, it's like an FBI. You could take it like an FBI investigation. Look at it as like, what's the evidence? You know, because you say the false cannot stand up to investigation. It will fall apart. And that's what needs to happen to the false needs to be seen to see to be what I mean, more without, you know, you can get we can get hung up on the words and go, oh, that's dual and all that shit, but you know what I mean?

It's seen through the words or underneath the words. And that's why I think the point of the space is so important, because when you look at the thought or the self or you look for it, you're left as that space. And you know, if you close your eyes or you can keep them open, but if you close your eyes and you just look for the cell, there's just blackness. There's an empty space. And that's what we are. And that's what we're appearing in. And so when you realize that thoughts arising from that place and therefore actions arising from that place and that place is the infinite and we can use the concept of God or whatever other concept we want.

Right. Energy, universal energy, universal consciousness. Then what else is there to do? You know, it's just that when you like you just look. And that's that. Spaces, spaciousness within yourself is that spaciousness in which everything's appearing, and that's why I think that space thing is so important because every thought arises from the space and then dissolves back into the space. And what are you left with space? That's that one permanent thing. Right. So what is the what is something that's true, something which doesn't change? There's one there's a few like the only constant is change. But the one thing that doesn't change is the space in which the impermanent objects of thought or of matter are occurring in its space.

That's the one constant. That's the truth. And that's what we are. And you can just see that for yourself. This is doesn't have to be a belief. It's so easy. Just close your eyes and see and just look. Don't think. And if you think, just observe that thinking. Look, just look like with fresh eyes like a baby and you'll see we are that space. And it's as simple as that, really. Like, see you. Yeah. It can be. I think it's not. I've been fronting up to this for the last few years. You know what I mean? So this is not this for me. I'm going to talk like this, but this is not being overnight thing.

This has been fronting up. Something is bringing you here for a deeper investigation of some sort. You're not doing it. Something's I don't want to get caught up in the woods, but this brought you here seeking the deeper truth and that's why I just keep fronting up, fronting up, saying there's got to be something this is not the end of the line. Something. But that was the me going. That's not the end of the line. You know what I mean? But they're all the time. Yeah. Everything is fresh and new all the time. So whatever questioning and everything comes up anyway to question it. Is this really true?

Is this whatever? You know, what's real? What's not real? All that sort of stuff comes up naturally. I don't think you can sort of solve it once. You can't rule. Whatever solving it means, you know. And what's great is every time you see the trap, more gets revealed. Every time you see the trap, more gets revealed all the time. You know, I mean, even if you don't see the trap, more gets revealed all the time. You know, and so not that there is any time, but you know, it's it's it's I don't know, it's like. No, I don't know. It's always fresh and new. It's always fresh and new, you know.

And so you might think, oh, you know, I'm never going to get caught in that, you know, erroneous me ever again. And then, you know, three hours later you go, oh, shit, you know. But but but there you go. There you are. Yeah. Yeah. And this I've been into this since 1988, you know, so. Stop falling down the hole. Huh? In a place where you don't have any thoughts anymore and you don't like fall down the hole. Well, when you see through, how can you believe it again? Yeah. Yeah. The energy of belief doesn't go into it. It doesn't mean that the memory of the story or the capacity to communicate or to appreciate a good story is gone.

It doesn't. It is. It is still there. Yeah. But being caught up. Yeah. See, there have to be someone who gets caught up. Yeah. If there is no one there. So that's the difference. The story is there. Yeah. But and it goes on. Yeah. But like the snake in the rope. When was there ever a snake in the road? Yeah. Never. It was. But it appears to somebody and they suffer because of it. Yeah. But if there is no one to get caught in the story, it doesn't mean that the story or feeling or sensation or action will not arise. If you look again at the natural world and you see a couple of animals fighting for the territory, there is no story.

There is no self. Yeah. And the action totally happens. It may be charged and it may be fueled with passion and adrenaline and cortisol, whatever. Gotcha. That happens. But there is no one there who claims that this is me. I've done it. Yeah. The body is breathing. The body is beating the heart. I am not doing. Now the body is speaking. I is not doing. Yeah. Whatever happens, there is that link between believing that there is a self that has anything to do with that happening is gone and happening happens just the same. As I think Catherine was saying before, even if you discover today that self is a fiction and the self, let's say, for some sort of a short circuit will never, ever arise.

The default mode network will never hallucinate separate self. It doesn't mean that 10 years ago there was a self doing things. Self has never been real. Ten, 20, 30, 50 years ago, there was no self. It's you've never. It's just a bundle of memories. It's just the narrative which is designed to take credit for actions and keep the character in its integrity, associate itself with the personality or with the body to keep the integrity of the narrative of the character. Naming and claiming and claiming the credit for what's, you know, naming and claiming the credit for what's happening when in fact they're not the person or was a self.

There never will be. Or the credit for what's happening or the misery. Not taking the blame. Not taking the blame. And it's the belief that goes into it. Well, the ego is the self or the me or the memory. Basically, it's the illusion that there is a separate self in the first place. Person means persona, which is mask, which is an image, which is what Bob says. We're not the image. We have about ourselves, you know, so so you can name it whatever, but it's always been a fiction. It's all the fiction. I have a few comments that I would like to know. You go.

No, I was going to say that a big thing is that it was all seeing thoughts and that, but it was really the belief that has gone into it. So it's like if you I'm not sure if there's anything being like where you've had a belief in something yet, but then you found out that that's wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's not the case. Not true. And then what happened to the belief around it or the story around it? Well, I think the loss of it. Yeah, but it dissolved. Right. No longer believe it's the same principle as this. Seeing that the me belief gone into the me seeing that is like seeing through that that belief has not been or has it not been true.

The story has not been true. Yeah, it's the same principle that falls away. Yeah, it's like Santa Claus. You find out Santa Claus. Yeah. And I suppose to a seven year old, that's a really big payoff. Not being willing, not being willing to believe that there isn't a Santa. Same as when you're this age and you've got all these beliefs. If that's your identity and you've identified with it and there's a payoff for maintaining it, how easy is it going to be to let go? So that's another issue. You don't have to do that. You just find the recognition. You don't have to let go of anything.

Because there is no you to let go of anything. Just relaxation for the recognition to spontaneously present itself. Because there is no action required from someone who doesn't exist. How the non-existent me can let go of anything or do any action or resign or give up. It doesn't have to do anything at all. The recognition is already potentially present. Just like with the. Just like with the Santa Claus. You know that when you realize that Santa Claus wasn't a guy living somewhere in the North Pole, that recognition was potentially there. Now it landed in the landing of the recognition. Santa Claus didn't die. Nothing was lost.

There's no need to greet man on the South Pole because on North Pole because he hasn't been there. Recognition clears it up completely. And that recognition that this me is same imagined self as the Santa. That recognition doesn't kill the me. That recognition doesn't require me to give up on anything or let go of anything or stop the thinking or calm the mind or sit and practice. None whatsoever. Nothing's required. But then I'll just like to include those people who are here commenting. And we were just so busy. And thank you for being so giving and sharing. But I'll include this. I'm enough answering to Tanya.

I'm enough sharing on this story and belief investigating. He says, leave it as it is. Who wants to investigate? Investigate the investigator, not the story, which has no beginning and no end. And the smiley faces. Beautiful, Tanya. Thanks for this pointer. I learned is we are creating the creator. We are prior to creator might can't be without doership or thinker who named form and past. Both are imaginary, not true, which leads to unborn mind or awareness. This is Amarnath and JP says unknowable. Amarnath says language thoughts forms are fuel of mind, which we are supplying continuously fast now. And Hanya says great investigating happening. Love to Bob and Kat and all.

Thank you, Hanya. And Amarnath says questioner is the question. So also answer also not answer. Both are traps and inseparable appears as separate. So also appearances are false, which include senses, mind, intellect and ego. Adjuncts. We can be without those adjuncts. And Tanya says, so you are that which is aware. And they'll says Tanya. And the rise of the I thought concepts are absent before the rise of the I thought concepts are absent. And Timothy says Bob says the false cannot stand up to investigation. Isn't it necessary to have a deaf experience such as the man of a harsh he did when he was 16 in order to become one with truth?

Isn't it necessary to have direct experience to come to the truth rather than insight through discussion? Well, life is unlimited. If through Ramana life expressed as death experience through Jesus or Buddha, it didn't express as death experience, neither did it through Bob. There are no two stories that are the same. Ramana's story is already taken. We can put it aside. It's not going to repeat itself because this infinite creativity is so vast that it doesn't have to copy one story to other people. Can it happen through the direct experience rather than insights through discussion? Again, life is infinite and unlimited. It can happen through direct insight during discussion.

Apart from discussion before after it is completely free to express as it pleases. And I'm not again answering to Tanya says thought cannot tell about what is thought less non conceptual awareness. Timeless presence is transformed into presence time. This happens so fast that one millionth of a second so subtle is the self. And Vivek says rather than any death experience that was answered to Timothy, rather than any death experience, it was deep investigation that revealed the truth. And again, it doesn't have any requirements to be the only one. It is free already. It is free right now. And jump here. Oh, no. Julia. But Julia says to Tanya, don't try to grasp it with the mind.

This ever present cognition is the only constant. You know, you are that all and none of it. It comes by a negation. And JP says death of the me doesn't require the death of the body. Absolutely. Vivek says do not wait for any experiences to happen in future. Great point. Accept the truth as it is. And hey, you says what is known takes the shape of a person based on memory and habit. But it is shadow. It is the shadow or a projection of the nowhere onto the scene of the mind. The person is very small thing. Actually, it is a composite. It cannot be.

It is a concept to exist by itself. That was a quote from Nisargadatta Maharaj. And now Amarna says, beautiful Timothy, whole waking state creation is dead, false, only self reflection seen as me, world and God. So no difference between death and life. Two sides of the same coin. We are not the coin. Beautiful. So Tanya is commenting on her question, so you are that which is aware, she says that which is knowing is all you know. Laughing out loud, thoughts disappeared. We'll see it with your reply, Julia. That was to British Julia. And Amarna says person is the compost and nowhere is false from the past and memory.

See them as they are. And hey, you another quote from Maharaj. When you believe yourself to be a person, you see persons everywhere. In reality, there is no persons, only threads of memories and habits. At the moment of realization, the person ceases. Beautiful. I'm learning this is from Amarna. Also big trap. It is not the reality part of known self. Well, it's a good enough pointer. It resonates. And Amarna, beautiful, discussing the discussant and operator also part of minds operating, we frequently forget. And I'm not replying to jump here. Beautiful. John, mind and body never leave. That was about the death of the me doesn't require the death of the body.

And I'm not also says mind is interested in the contents of consciousness, thoughts, personalities and things, not the consciousness and prior consciousness. That's the fun. Great. Good point. Amarna, absolutely put your heart to that mystery of life rather than the content of your thinking and how you says and this is from Mahamudra with the ways of the intellect, you won't see beyond intellect if and if you want to know what is beyond intellect and action, cut your mind. It's the roots. And. Is naked awareness. What's joy? What a joy. And Tanya says that's what happens when watching the meetings and relaxation into us. The space, the words pointers seem to facilitate this.

But but this available always. Wow. With no thoughts, no problem. And if the meeting is not available, just give us a call. Yeah. And I'm going to see you from where and when this scene of waking state is projected. Space is also an illusion. It's space like, but not the space. Where was this during our deep sleep? And hey, you said, who's sleeping? And smiley face. Amarna, only false is revealed by investigation, not the self, which has no veil at all. Absolutely. Investigation reveals the false. And is left with nothing, which is the truth. No thing. I'm not. Who is saying words and thoughts concept?

Hey, you said beautiful Bob and Tanya shanty shanty shanty. And Tanya says no credit taken for any of the clarity shirts today. Hey, you. Although all I shared was questions laughing out loud. And now we have Amarna says, thank you all. Love you all. Everything. Realization happens by itself. No one brings or manufacture. Obviously it is already here. It's just the recognition that also brings by itself. So that was that was the sharing. And thank you, everyone. Thank you for participating. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.