Just as is changes by itself. Sailor Bob. Nonduality group. 11 Sept 2022

Our names are loud in the circle so everyone knows each other. I'm Julia. I'm Saroja. I'm Nick. I'm Samara. I'm Lockie. Bam. Jack. I'm Peter. I'm Glenn. Hi. Well, as most of you know, what we point to here is what the ancient traditions tell us. In Hinduism, for instance, we call it Advaita. Advaita meaning non-duality, not two. One without a second. And that's what we point to. And so I can't teach you anything. And I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. To see for yourself. Because no matter what you've understood, there's nobody.

Who can teach you anything. Or tell you anything. Because if it's non-dual, you are already that. And that's what hasn't been recognised or understood. And so that's what we point to. And try and hope in the pointing it'll be recognised. So I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm talking to that I am that I am. And that I am is not the person. It's a sense of presence. It translates through the mind as the thought I am. Just to this, nothing else. Because that is all that there is. And that's what the great mantra is. I am that. And innately, each and every one of us knows that already.

Because to say that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the space in the room. That's the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything is already that. Which we discriminate it with the word. Or the labels we put on it. And when you look into the word, you'll see the word is not the thing. The word is not the real. Take the word water. Try and drink the word. Try and swim in it. See if you can drown in it. Or wash in it. The word fire. Cook with it. Does it burn your mouth? Does it burn your mouth?

Can you? You can't do any of those things. So this word I or me. What is it? Is it this individual? Is it this person? This separate entity? Or is it, as they say in some of the scriptures, it's that sense of presence. That sense of presence. You know, I can't hear. Which expresses through the mind as the thought I am. So when people think, when people like Nisargadatta says, stay with the I am-ness, he's not talking about staying with the word. I am, I am, or repeating that as a mantra. He's talking about what it represents. It represents that sense of presence. Any of you, or the Sat-Shita Nanda that they talk about in Hinduism.

Sat is existence. Shita is consciousness. Ananda is, loving to be. Anyone who is not existing right now, you realize, no, I am existing. Anyone who is not conscious, or unaware, and you'll say, no, I am aware. I'm not unconscious. Anyone who is not happy to be. Well, none of you want to be dead right now, do you? So you're happy to be. So that's what Sat-Shita Nanda is. You are already that. And the other two factors, there's five factors of that. Nama-rupa. Nama is the name, and rupa is the form, body-mind. Now they say that Nama-rupa is maya, it's illusion. So this body-mind is an illusion.

And they say again that the whole manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's not its reality, it's how it's appearing. So, which we'll be pointing out here, start from the fact, whether you know it or not at this stage, that you are already that. Because that is all there is. And you know that. You'll say, that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's me, that's you. You know that everything is already that. So what's happened? We've taken on the belief that we are these separate entities. These persons, these individuals.

How did that come about? Well, we learnt words. Now look into that. How many words were you born with? You realise you didn't have any words until you were about two, two and a half. When the capacity of reasoning develops in you and you learnt words. Before that, look at the little child, he's got no words. He's seeing, he's hearing, he's functioning. He's living in the world. He's breathing, but he's not saying anything at all because he hasn't learnt any words. If he's happy he'll cry, if he's happy he'll laugh, if something's hurting he'll cry. And doing everything spontaneously, naturally, inevitably. And about two, somewhere around that age, the capacity of reasoning develops in him.

And that's the capacity of these human beings, so-called human beings, that have as more developed as what it is in other creatures who haven't got the words. But they're knowing and understanding by the sounds, the recognition, that they haven't learnt any words to discriminate it. And when I say, how many words were you born with? You can't say you were born with any words. So, that's why you can't say, you can't remember your birth. People say they remember the birth, but how could they? Because they didn't have any words. Couldn't say, I was born, because you can't remember. Not until you learn words. And you can only remember, go back and recall partially what was going on then.

So that's when our problem starts, when we learn the words. Parents fussing around you, telling you your little Johnny or your little Billy, and you learn words like I and me. And then you translate it. I am little Billy, or little Johnny, or little Jane. Somebody asks you who you are now, you say I am John, or Jane, or whatever your name might be. So you've taken on the belief that you are this separate entity, this person. Instead of saying, that I am the absolute, I am the great perfection, I am the totality. And you can't go around saying that, or people will put you in a nut house anyway.

But you know that, you must know it innately of yourself already, because that is all there is. And I am that. The one intelligence energy expressing without the other. Not two. As soon as there's... There can't be one without two, and there can't be two without the one. But you are the no thing, the absolute. What can you add to the absolute? No thing. Nothing at all. Because it wouldn't be absolute. And what can you take away from it? Nothing. In Buddhism they call it the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? Same as the absolute, nothing. But you can't take anything away from it.

And they give it here in Buddhism in one sentence. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That awareness without any words on it. Anybody who is unaware right now, you're not. Anyone who is not existing right now, no, you recognise I am existing, and you're conscious, and you're not unaware, and you're happy to be. So you already are that. But while we talk about the person I am so and so, you've separated yourself. Taken on this idea of a personal, or an individual. And where does that word person come from? Doesn't it come from the Latin persona? Meaning a mask? So what we're really with this person, we've got this conceptual image, conceptual mask.

Taking ourselves to be the separate entity, the individual. And seeing that you are the totality, you are the absolute, you are the life itself. You're not the body, or you're not the mind. And don't you innately know that? You'll say, you'll say my body, my mind. You'll say my house, my car. Are you the house? You know you're not the house. Are you the car? You know you're not the car. So maybe you're not the mind either. Or maybe you're not the body either. And when you investigate it, you'll see you're not the body, or the mind. And that's another important point to say, that the false cannot stand up to investigation.

So investigation is, so investigate some of these concepts we've taken on, and see if they are the truth. Because the other saying is, know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from the bondage of belief. We believe in all these concepts, these ideas, we're separate from the person. But have a look at that word belief. The dictionary definition of belief is, an unquestioned acceptance of something, in the absence of reason. It means we haven't reasoned it out, we've taken it for granted. When you're told you're a little Johnny, or a little Billy, I am little Johnny.

Did you ever question it? No. An unquestioned acceptance of something, in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Now you allege you are this person, an alleged fact, without positive knowledge or proof. Now when you put it to the test, and see if there's proof there, and positive knowledge, you'll find it'll fall apart under the investigation. You realise you're not what you appear or thinking you are. You are that life, or absolute. And that's what Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't. He wasn't talking about the person, he was talking about that sense of presence, which is the same sense of presence that's in you right now.

There's nobody who is unaware of being present. That's the way, that is the life of you, and that's the truth. So you need to investigate and recognise that. This idea of separate entity and individual is the cause of all our problems. There's only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be fearful, anxious, depressed, guilt-stricken, jealous or envy. All your psychological suffering comes about from the belief we've got that we are this person, this separate entity. Investigate it and see, who is this me? Or I? Or is this just another word or another concept made up from the sense of presence? The I am-ness comes about from the sense of presence, which is translated, the beingness or the sense of presence which is translated by the thought, I am.

Now again, they call it a cognising emptiness. We think we cognise the emptiness. But it's not at all. It's the emptiness itself. That pure intelligence here that has the capacity of cognising. And the Buddha told you that a couple of thousand years ago when he made the statement that emptiness is form. And it's, all this manifestation, all these seeming forms are nothing but the emptiness. Because he turned it round the other way and said emptiness is form. And the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. So you and I and all the other forms in this room, the cat, the chair, the tree, the flower, are all emptiness.

It's appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and all this separate entity. What's it all appearing? What's the basic screen in which everything appears? Isn't it all appearing in space? And can you find a centre to space? Look as much as you like. You won't be able to find a centre to it where it begins. Can you find a circumference? Or any boundaries of space? You can't. Go out as far as you like. You'll never find any. And can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be out of space? What would it be in? When you look along those lines you realise it's all there.

It's all the contents of space. Space is no thing. The space in the room is there. Try and grab it. You can't. You're in it. Space is all around you. It's suffusing you. It's suffusing this body. Put this body under a microscope and you'll see there's lots of room for space in it. Space is no thing. And you can't postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space. So have a look at it this way. Space is no thing. Can something come from no thing? And you and I, the trees, the flowers, all this manifestation are no thing. All things appearing as things.

All seeming patterns, shapes and forms appearing as things. But we're all no thing. So it's everything and the no thing. You can't say it is. You can't say it's not. Like Shakespeare tells you, a couple of... four or five hundred years ago, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. It's the thinking, the conceptualising, that's making the division. Masako Dada tells you that nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. That's the way he seems to say it. Nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. You're troubled by all these things. And you look at it and realise that and if it's only what you are imagining that's troubling you, you can see there's a way out of it.

You don't have to be troubled by all this. We'll break that word imagination down to image in. And that's all we're doing. We're creating mental or conceptual images. Forming words and concepts and ideas out of those images and taking the image to be real. Look in a mirror. Look in a mirror. What do you see? You'll see a reflection or an image in the mirror. Now go up to that mirror. You'll see a face in it, an image in the mirror. You can't say it's not there. Try and grab it out of the mirror. You'll grab it, there's nothing there. You can't say it is there.

So you can't say it is, you can't say it isn't. So that's how it's all, this manifestation's appearing. You can't say anything is, you can't say it's not. But it's appearing to be so. What do they tell you in the Bible? They say, in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all that this so-called God is, a Word, a label, another Word. All things were made by Him, by the Word. And isn't that so? All these things in this manifestation including you, me, the trees, the flowers, are all got words, concepts, labels of. And there was nothing made that was made without the Word.

So it's only the Word, or the conceptual image that we take to be real. That you are the absolute. That is all there is, the absolute, the one, what I call for a better term, I don't use the term God, because you can get confused with that term. Purely and simply, we all come from different traditions. Some of you might be Christians, some of you are Muslims, some of you are Hindus, all the other different religions are going on, all got different labels on them. Hinduism has a thousand names for this, you've got a thousand different names for it. A Muslim will say there's no God but God, Allah is his name, put a name on it.

Christianity is Father, Son, Holy Ghost, or pure intelligence energy. I use the term intelligence energy, for want of a better term. I call it, I forget at the moment, but words will come to me. All got different labels what the so-called God is. But it's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, and experiencing everything. And everything that's patterned, shaping, forming, and experiencing as is, is not separate from it. All things are made by him, by the Word. All these things that are appearing, we put labels and words on, which are discriminating it. Without the Word, it's still the Absolute. Now take yourself to be the Absolute, instead of the person, the separate entity.

If you are the Absolute, who can be superior to you? If Absolute is all there is. Who can be inferior to you? And what would you want of the other persons? You can't separate yourself from anything. Wouldn't it be a change in the way you see things, and the way the functioning and living happens? If you can grasp that, very nature, that you are, the great reality, the pure intelligence energy. But no, we've learnt these words. And the energy of belief has gone into these words, and we take it to be real. Now see how that functions in you. Something comes up and you like it.

How do you know? Well, you've had this experience before and it's good. We don't want it to go. We want the good things to be there. Not realising that everything is transient, it's constantly changing. Everything is changing in you right now. There are thousands of cells, not one or two, that are dying in that body right now. It's not the same body you walked into this room with. Transient. And being replaced. And the liver cell is not being replaced by a heart cell. A kidney cell not being replaced by a skin cell, or a liver cell, or a brain cell. Each cell is suffused with that life, or intelligence energy.

And that's what we want. That's what we want. It's your intelligence energy, that knows what to do. And you are the life itself. Not the person. If something comes up, you like it. You don't want things to go. Not recognising they're changing. So we don't want it to go. So what do we do? We want it to keep the good things and don't want the bad things. So we resist it from going. Trying to keep it there. We resist it from going. And resistance is conflict. If you are resisting anything, you're in conflict with it. You're trying to keep it here, you're struggling with it.

And in that conflict comes fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, all your psychological problems come up from that resistance. That makes you uneasy or fearful or anxious. So there's resistance, conflict, another word for that is not at ease, is disease. So there's resistance, conflict and disease coming up. Something comes up that's like, that you don't like, I should say. Things you don't like, oh, I shouldn't be thinking this thought, it's a bad thought, it makes me not good, I shouldn't be fearful about that, I'm a poor, innocent person. And you don't want the bad things to be there, so you try and push it out.

Resistance again. Conflict and disease. See what your life's made up of, this constant struggle. Instead of seeing things, as they are, letting them be, as they are, there's constant, there's resistance going on. Constant attachment and fixation, trying to alter, modify or correct what is, instead of leaving it as it is, where it changes by itself. So that's what's going on in our lives altogether. Now we are these more poor, miserable human beings, and are fearful, anxious, unhappy, depressed, guilty, all our psychological suffering comes about from that belief, this belief that we are this separate entity. Instead of recognising it's what they tell us in the first place, it is only one life, one essence, a patterning, shaping, forming, and appearing as everything.

We've taken on this life, we are this separate entity, and we need to become realised or recognise our true nature. But don't you see that becoming is a concept about a future time? And there is no such thing as becoming. But you are being, and being can never become. And you know that. Becoming implies a future time. And when you investigate time, and you recognise time as a mental concept also, because you ask yourself, is there a past? If I don't think about it, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. But if you think about it, when you investigate it, you can't say there's a past or a future without a thought.

But you'll say, I was in the past. I'll say, well, try and live yesterday. You can't go back and live yesterday. But you can recall it. You can recall parts of it. You can't recall it all. But only what you're recalling, and that won't last if you're not recalling it. There's only what you can recall, and that's all. There's only what you can recall, that has any substance or any independent nature. But when you're recalling it, it's only now. And you can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do when you leave here in the future. But you can't live a moment in the future.

And what you're anticipating and imagining right now might not happen when the so-called presence is, the future becomes that presence which it is. So there's only this presence awareness. So trying to become something is an impossibility. It's just as it is, what is. Being. Now, have a look at that beingness. You call yourself a human being. And you call God the Supreme Being. We've differentiated. We've separated. Put something that's greater than ourselves on it. What happens if you take away that word human? Just be. Take away that word supreme. And just be. Try and negate that beingness. Can anyone sitting there say you are not?

You cannot. You can't negate your beingness. You're an absolute certainty of it. So what are you searching for? To become what you already are? That's why we say the search is the problem. The search implies there's something you haven't got. But if you meditate, and practice this and do that discipline, and over a period of time, you will become something. You've been doing it for a while, haven't you? There might be a few of you here that recognize your true nature. Some of you might be just looking at it. But the important thing is you moved away from the beliefs because those, a lot of those traditions and religions have been corrupted when they put the rules and regulations on it.

You've got to pray. You've got to meditate. You've got to practice this. You've got to become something. You've got to practice this to become something. And you say it, you've seen it and recognize it's not good enough. And it's taking you to look at other things. And where it takes you then, it will take you into the investigation where you keep looking and will recognize what is your actuality, what is it, the beingness that you actually are. Come to see that. And know the truth. And that's the scriptural saying, know the truth and the truth will set you free. So that's what we point to here.

And ask you to look along those lines and see for yourself. Have a look at it. When were you born? You don't remember and you can't remember because you had no word. But how did you come about? When the saga tells you something, there is only life. There is nobody, nobody who lives a lie. And out of life, more life comes. Life comes from life. And that's what Christ told you. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. And that is what you are. Well, how does this life come about? Well, as you say, life comes from more life. And didn't you come from the life of your father and your mother?

Didn't they come from the life of their parents? How did that come about? Well, have a look at that. Life in your father, that animating life essence or intelligence energy in your father. Through the breathing, the prana, food he's eating, and the capacity of reasoning, intelligence, enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. And that sperm was suffused with life, intelligence energy. It knew what to do. The same in your mother, that animating life essence in your mother, intelligence energy. In that pattern, it knew what to do. It formed an egg or an ovum. That ovum was suffused with intelligence energy.

It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. The sperm, knowing what to do, swam to the ovum. Both implying that it suffused that life or intelligence energy. When they came together, what happened? They doubled. They merged into one another and doubled and doubled again. And the intelligence energy doubled it and formed the little embryo, the little fetus, which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then? You think you're running the show now. You couldn't do, you weren't doing anything about it then, but that life that you are was doubling those cells and re-going them and living them and breathing them, beating your heart.

It's that life that's still doing it today. But we got corrupted and believed in the person. We've taken on this idea we are a person and think we're going to become something and can do something. And as these individuals, we think we're going to change the world. Understand the true nature. Recognize the truth. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. And what comes up then? What comes up then from your true nature might be something that will enable to bring about changes in the world. But it won't be you as the person. It'll be that life that you are, that truth, that lovingness that's in you that's bringing it through that person.

Einstein told you years ago. He says, I thought of this problem, worked on it for days, nights, for years. Couldn't get the answer. One night I went to sleep and I woke up next morning and the answer was there. Came upon him. And how many things in your own life have come up unexpected and uncalled for? We tried to reason the work them out and couldn't get anywhere. But knowing the truth and left them to be as they are, the changes that come about. When we say we want the good and don't want the bad, have a look at that. We're only liking one and not the other.

Instead of. Seeing it all as the one essence. Why aren't you unhappy? As Wei Wu Wo told you. Because everything you say, everything you do and everything you think is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. And that's true. There isn't the personal self. There's only what they call the one Atman. Or the one self. Look in any of the scriptures. They'll tell you. There's the one God. Hinduism. One Atman. The one self. And all the others will tell you there's only the one essence. It's patting so. One was not two. So if there's only the one. And everything is that one. You must be.

And can't be anything other than that. So all our problems. Are problems of relationship. Duality. Race relationship is relativity. And even as human. Relationship. When it's relative to you. There's all sorts of problems in your marriage. Or your merging. But if it's a natural merging. A natural to come and get together. There'll be a natural functioning there. One day. When you've got your concepts about you and yourself. You've got a concept about her. And they don't gel. There's all sorts of fights and arguments and things and carries on going. There's only meaning to be unhappy. Only meaning to be happy. Only meaning to be happy.

Only meaning to be fearful. Only meaning to be deceived or angry. Me is the cause. Of all my psychological suffering. And the effects are anxiety. Fear. Dispress. Guilt. Shame. Remorse. Jealousy. Infamy. They're the cause of the relating to me. What happens. That's. See that is. Cause and effect. Me is the cause. And the effects. Are the way they're meant to be. And the effects. Of me. Ask yourself the simple question. If I'm not relating to the cause. Me. If there can't be. Can there be an effect without the cause. And you notice me around scholars if that work out. Not relating to the cause. Can be an effect without a cause there can't be.

So you're gonna be rid of all that's all of Psychological Suffering is So-called karma, Is cause and effect. But you're not bringing it about to describes you. But if you're not bringing it about by the cause, the effects can't be there. And what's left then? Won't it be just as it is? Not as it was, not as it will be, but always and ever this fresh and new and momentary presence awareness. Not past awareness, not a future awareness, but a presence awareness. Pre-sense, before the senses come in and negate, and label the feelings, present before the feelings. And even while the feelings are, still having that presence awareness, which I pointed out earlier, is illusion, it's mire, when it's conceptualised.

So that's the thing, if you're drawn to it or moved to it, you investigate it, and you stay with the one thing that it's pointed to and recognise that it must bring you to the recognition and realisation that you are already that. What you are seeking you already are. You don't have to necessarily go round to this one or that one or any other one. Just with... Because in the finish, that's what you'll have to come back to. What you recognise or know for yourself through investigation. So that's all I'm pointing to, so... Kat will come in and get a few answers from somebody else and ask you to speak.

So you can go ahead and carry on. OK, so we have 20 people online from online community, welcome. And we have a lot of welcoming messages in a couple of languages. Jeff even says, Dzień dobry in Polish. And from Poland. Bob is looking sharp today, Anita says. Lots of love from lots of people and there are comments from... Dan, he says, You are all there is. And that's a good pointer actually, because to say you are nothing or to say you are everything is just one in essence. Like zero and eternity, they're both totally incomprehensible and beyond the mind. And that's the point. We are pointing beyond the mind, beyond that conceptualised costume that we assume that we are.

So thank you, Dan. And there is another comment from Amarna. Greetings. Love itself is lover and beloved, thinker and thought. Yeah, thank you, Amarna. We are also pointing that in the singular way of seeing the world, everything is the ing. So it's the seeing, the thinking. Rather than dividing it conceptualised, conceptually into thinker and a thought, seer and a seen, everything is just one occurring or happening. Viewed in this way, the personalised aspect and the relationship is basically just skipped. So if there is something's happening, whatever it is, the emotion, let's say the sadness is happening, so we don't really have to conceptualise the me that is sad about the sadness.

So now we only have one occurring rather than being unhappy about unhappiness, or being sad about the sadness. And all the psychological suffering that accumulates based on the assumption that there is someone who has it, like Bob was saying, the relationship, me is the cause. If there is a separate me, that separate me will be the cause, will be owning, will be taking credit for everything that's happening. And what goes with it, of course, will self-evaluate. And being self-evaluated and being limited, it will always self-evaluate negatively. Even in one morning, you look in the mirror, I am alright, you know, comparing to the others that are less wealthy or less lucky or less good-looking, yeah.

But that's just a temporary delusion because ultimately you are the totality. As Dan said, you are everything. So evaluating yourself as alright or as unworthy, unlovable, not good enough, or better than someone else, never going to be satisfying. Because being anything less than totality, than just pure life essence, the radiance, the sunlight, it's just not going to do the justice of what you are. And as Bob pointed, you are the life. You are that animating energy, the essence. Not the way it animates. It animates into the body. It animates into thinking, mind. Yes, but originally it is the source of all vibration, of all energy.

The way it expresses is already far away from the essence of it. So we just point out that resting in that essence, you are in the natural state, like that cat there. It doesn't have any complaints, doesn't have any narrative. It just rests in the whatever life brings, it responds to it without much of a problem. Without a drama. And that's the possibility, that's the invitation. To live the life, not like the animal. We can't go back. But to live life from the natural state, where the mind is utilized according to the requirement of the environment, rather than completely having control and having grip and yapping over everything that's happening.

It is a tool. It can be utilized. It's a magnificent tool. But that's not what we are. If I think I'm the mind, then of course everything I think is real and is important. But is it? We know, everyone knew, how often we dropped the idea, we found out we were wrong. Or the things that were important 15 or 20 or 30 years ago, how important are they now? Or the image we had of ourselves as children, where are they now? So anyway, this is another comment here now. From Martin. Your mind is one step behind while tries to catch up is already happening. It's already happening.

That's beautiful. That's exactly right. And Ram says, The last three days we have all probably been watching images of the amazing Elizabeth II. And entire character captured in pictures from when she was a baby to a young girl to a beautiful young woman to a steady middle aged lady to an enduring grandma and a great grandma. The story captured over 96 years of time. Where did she come from? Where has she gone? When and where did this remarkable story take place? It is a story of becoming or a story of being. Wow, beautiful Ram, thank you. That's a really nice image to ponder upon. Because every story is just it.

It's a story. Which is kind of trying to come close to the description of the magnificence of that life essence. I can't ever really do the job of trying to get the description of the magnificence of that life essence. I can't ever really do the job of trying to get the description of the magnificence of that life essence. Can it be justice, can it? Well, I'm not far behind her. You gotta outleave her first. Then we're gonna talk about it. Anyway, would anyone like to ask questions, contribute, share? Tell us, does it move you in any ways? Oh, lovely. I noticed in the last week of being quite busy at work I noticed in the last week of being quite busy at work, it's kind of like a frantic...

notice in the last week of being quite busy at work, it's kind of like a frantic... There's a bit of a frantic energy at my work and I've seen it leak over into my normal life. And so a few times throughout the week, you know, just like eating lunch, I noticed I'm like rushing. And other activities, I'm kind of just like hurrying for no real reason. And throughout the week, like when this has been happening, some of the time there's this part of me that kind of clicks in and is like, why am I rushing? And who is rushing? And as soon as I ask this question, there's just this relaxation.

But also this kind of heightened curiosity in whatever is in that moment is just becomes... You know? In high definition, it seems like. And the quality of whatever I'm doing improves just of itself. Like there's no effort, but all of a sudden, whatever I'm doing is getting my full attention just because it's so almost like fascinating what is going on. And this seems relatively easy to occur when I'm doing some kind of physical task or something like that. But then when I have to go... When I have to go... When I have to go back to work and apply my mind and like my job is basically to think and to put thoughts into the computer.

I'm like, how can you bring this awareness into an activity of thought where the thing you're doing is thinking and thinking quickly and kind of responding quickly? Because that's when it seems to disappear. Yeah. And so it'll go on. But see, in the first one you say, you saw where... The clarity is when you want to make your... Detaching from it, leaving it unfold by itself. You'll learn to do that in every situation. You've got to think of a lot of things in work. Be like, as Einstein said, just relax into it. Let it be. Let it unfold of itself. Instead of trying to work it out in the mind.

Some things you need to work out in the mind. Well, you do that, but... I mean, come back to that. Pure awareness where things are unfolding by themselves as much as possible. You've got the taste of it now. It's growing in you. In you to what it was a few weeks ago, isn't it? Yeah. I'll leave it. It's got you. When it's got you, it'll grow in you as you go along. But that was a beautiful insight you had when you see that the contraction happens when there is a little bit of a stress, you know, and then you're rushing through. And this is nothing not normal.

If you look out in nature and you... See, let's say, the wild creature chasing its prey. There is a stress going on and that stress is perfectly in place. So there will be situations in your life when you avoiding accidents on the road. You don't really want to apply any mindfulness back then. You just want to really get your instinctual, the intelligence of the body just be utilized completely. The time for reflecting and really relaxing into that space. Mm-hmm. And seeing how your body is being breathed, how your heart is being beaten, how it all happens by itself. It's also intelligently facilitated by life. There will be situations when there is no need to actually evaluate yourself at all.

And then who is there to evaluate? That's the natural state. There is often a state of, well, nobody's noticing anything because there's nobody there. And you can notice anything. It's just happening. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and that's... When I find myself in that space of kind of letting go, it's like, yeah, there is no one there to observe. But then it's like it pops back in and says, oh, there's no one there. But then there's a voice and then you see that. And it kind of keeps this weird loop. But... Yeah, when it says there's no one there, you'll recognize that's so and you won't carry that on either.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it seems like the heightened stress or whatever is useful because it makes, it creates, it gets enough where I'm like, oh, what am I, like, why am I doing this? Or why am I acting this way? And then the awareness rises. But yeah, I guess it would just be time to try and bring that into work and thought and that kind of activity. Making noise. That's the... Mind can be a useful tool. It can be used. But when it uses you... It's not good enough. That's the wrong function. You know? Hmm. Thank you.

Thank you. See how intelligently it all works out. I always noticed that whenever I was rushing in the past... Do you? ...babbling on rushing. It's just, that's when I made the biggest mistakes. Just saying. I'm like, not that you're doing any of that, but... No, I mean, yeah. Well, I wouldn't have rushed you. No. I'd be, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's cool that you noticed it. That's awesome. Mm. What she's saying is that you're recognizing what's there in the present moment. When we come out of this conceptual frame of being into a present moment condition, which we're always actually in, we realize something very special in the sense that it's totally a resonant experience, isn't it?

It's a resonant experience in the beauty of that which is just now. No matter what form. It's not just what appears to take. It's always that that is. Thank you. There is a couple of comments from people who are with us. Amarnath says, Infusion of meaning from which is meaningless, formless, becoming form, yet remain formless only. Meaning, language, forms are just notions, phantomness. No difference between being and becoming. Well, for the sake of pointing, the difference is enormous. I'm not saying that it's just a form. I'm saying that it's just a form. No difference. It's enormous. But, of course, ultimately everything is nothing, so. Now, Byron says, Is there a difference between explanations and direct experience?

Well, I can explain to you how the coffee tastes, or mango, and you can taste it yourself and see the difference is, yes, heaven and hell. Although, of course, ultimately this is all dreams, So that was the difference between the substance of dreamt coffee and dreamt mango, the one in essence. But yes, again, for the sake of pointing, the difference is absolutely enormous. It's like zero in eternity. In that case, what is our direct experience right now, Byron? That is a good question, Byron. Thank you. What is our direct experience right now? This is the vital question. And this is not an invitation to describe it, although it can, because description, sometimes describing, creates particular frequency which make others resonate.

Because what we point, and I hope that is what you're pointing, Byron, that our experience is not really what we hear, see, taste, think. You know, those are just components. But direct experiencing, the ing. Oh. There it is. What is. It is. Yeah. Is is direct, isn't it? Just as it is. And now Keith says everything is direct experience, including the explanation. Good point, Keith. Absolutely. Hearing the explanation is also direct experience of different quality than what's being explained. Like pointing at the moon is direct experience, the pointing. But the moon. The point is also direct experience, different from pointing. Vivek says there is no experience in realization, just being.

Yeah, good point, Vivek. We are not talking about gaining an experience. Because experiencing is going on already. And the common illusion is that enlightenment is a state of continuous bliss, experience of elation or something. Those are just, again, descriptions and sales speech. And the common illusion is that enlightenment is a state of continuous bliss, experience of elation or something. Those are just, again, descriptions and sales speech. You want to chase enlightenment because you're going to have continuous ecstasy or orgasm. That's a sales speech for, to embark on the seeking trip so that you may perhaps utilize the life in this way and get few people make a living of it.

And that's also how life expresses itself. But really experiencing has no quality. Being has no quality. Whether there is pleasure or there is no quality. Whether there is pain or there is joy or there is sadness. That's just the content of the experiencing. Experiencing is just a pure awareness, pure knowing. What is the content of knowing is secondary. It's not that important. Amarnath, oh, says, everything is direct experience, including the explanation, only if we are aware. Yes, if we are unaware, we can say we are corpse and there is no experiencing. That's right. Yeah. And we are not the corpse really. We are the life that left us.

Amarnath says, both explanation and experience are in mind form. We are not the mind, are prior to it, which cannot be explained. There is no direct or indirect, just experience. That's right. Yeah. All the explanations fail, really. They only just to create certain frequency for the resonating. Because every explanation is just a form of mind. That's right. Yeah. Everyone, deep down in your heart, knows already without any doubt, with absolute certainty that you exist, that you are. There is not a belief. There is nothing that can even be denied in an honest way because you can't stop being. So, all the point is really to come back to that innate awareness that's already and always there.

because everything that covers it up and clouds it. And then we have Amarna says, oh no, that's the same. Anyone? Well, first of all, I wanted to say, I was thinking recently about this idea of stress and how in life, contraction leads to almost like a- Nischmigam? Yeah, like in life, contractions or stress can lead to almost like an explosion of new growth in life, like contractions in pregnancy or even splitting like an atom. So this idea of stress, or even like you were saying with the animal, stress being a catalyst for adrenaline and then this and that. So yeah, I guess it's just re-evaluating our relationship with stress.

But so I think currently I'm like in a space of just like recognizing that I've had a, a personality structure that I've been relating to the world through. And so I've just been seeing that, that every interaction that I've had, there was like a middle man that it was being filtered through and how does this affect me or like this idea of myself? And yeah. it's it's like it's it's a very it's a very bizarre situation when you see it but so I think someone um on Thursday like it got me thinking like and like you were saying when we go to work um how can I um be in this space and you know function or whatever and um yeah I was contemplating that and I was seeing that like if we um go about a task um and we once again have that idea how does it relate to my um personality if you will like so you know you do the task thinking that it has um it reflects on your ability the person the person's ability you know when you do this task or um am I good at it or what are people going to say um say blah blah blah but um it's not the task itself that's stressful it's that relating it back to the personality yeah and um so if we can just go about the task realize that you know this task is um needs to be done or will be done then that kind of um that that yeah that identification that stress is minimized and um yeah it's just like flowing with it i guess and um yeah i think that's everything i wanted to say that's that's a beautiful insight you actually really got captured the essence of what bob was saying you know the whole relating is the source of all suffering yeah well i mean thursday like after our talk um had a like a big moment where i realized i had this whole personality structure and then the next day i woke up and i was like what the hell has been going on um because like i woke up and then there was all these stories um from the past and how i related to people and um you know it was just like almost like um the mind was like in overdrive trying to kind of i don't know like it's probably just how it always runs but i was like seeing this it was almost dizzying and um yeah and then so just like stepping back from that um and but i you know i would step back and then walking along and this whole daydream starts again you know and i don't know how long few minutes and i go oh my god i was sucked in again like you know and so it was just this it was quite jarring this like kind of stepping back um yeah and then um um then yesterday the i like i felt like really depressed and um then i was angry because you know i haven't felt like this for years and why and um but there wasn't like usually there used to be like a fear that i'm going into that state but that wasn't there like and um and so there was this like um well actually i like i was like angry and then i was like oh that's actually kind of a nice feeling like instead of being depressed feels like this like and then so i was like staying in that but then after a while um about midday or something it just all um all this density like just released and um i think it was like just all these really old um thought forms and tensions you know like um wanting to like pull away from the relationships or whatever it was was just like um being shaken and um yeah anyway that's been my process so i haven't and that's where we're at yeah that's absolutely wonderful that's really fascinating isn't it yeah yeah suddenly you see something that is mind-blowing that is really interesting because there is no need to transcend or change or alter or fix the personality and we recognize that that's your binoculars you know that's That's your characteristic of your device.

Like you can see dogs and cats, they have personalities too. The personalities are not a problem. Identification with personality and defending the personality and justifying the personality, that is where the suffering comes from. Yeah. But to see the filter, how incredible is that? Well, I was thinking it's like entropy or something, like where there's this, I don't know, like something that comes off that's not really necessary or something and you're relating to that. It's just a whole... Yeah. Yeah, it's strange. But then, yeah, like the anger where usually it was like you don't want to feel anger or something. And I was like, oh. Actually, it's happening and it's just a different feeling and it's quite empowering in a way, I guess.

Yeah, so I'm really just curious. When you noticed the anger and you started to celebrate it a little bit, what happened with the anger? Well, like the anger really was like kind of based around, you know, mid-tour, sorry. And like... Radiating out, you know? And I think usually like I would like try and shrink away or something. But like relating to that anger, I felt much larger, like really connecting with it. I was aware that, wow, it's like expanding out from myself. And so, yeah, it was a fuller sensation of myself. Yeah. Did it like seem to have a... I'm just asking questions about it, really.

Because in a way, it sounds like you celebrated it in a way you didn't before. Yeah. Which is cool. And I guess my question is like if you were to try to like... I know this is going back in thought and describing what it was and all that, but just out of curiosity, you know, did it seem to... Like as it expanded and you were allowing this expansion of it going, yes, now I'm like... Did it... With the full allowing of that, did you notice that it like maybe... Yeah. Or did it just stay or... I... Okay, not. I'm not... Yeah. I'm not sure. It was definitely like vibrational.

There was almost like a... You know, quite a like a... I don't know. It was like jump in kind of like, you know, it's... And... But... I don't... I guess it dissipated, but I think maybe deeper than that, it revealed like just an acceptance, like an okayness. That was like, yeah, deeper than that. Yeah. It was like a vibrational experience of that kind of... So there was no more problem with it. You were totally fine with it. Yeah. It was... Yeah. It was just... It was like acknowledging, which was really nice in that acknowledgement of a different aspect of myself because there was like a strength in it, in that anger as well.

Yeah. So... But I guess it... I guess it did... There wasn't a feeling of like a dissipation, like watching it dissipate, but there was definitely like a settling into that okayness. And I do kind of feel like, you know, it's still there in a way. There's still a bit of tension and whatever. But yeah. Wait till next time. See if it comes up again and redirect it. It's still a little bit there, but you're fine with it. Yeah. Well, I mean, the anger is not there, but I feel like things are like held within contraction. And I'm quite aware that there's like contraction through my physical being at the moment.

And maybe I'm not completely... There's still a bit of a separation. I'm still like... I like what you said earlier about contraction. Like being... Just contraction. Sometimes these, you know, big things happen through contraction. I just think of childbirth. You probably wouldn't be here if it weren't for a contraction. At least this body, you know. And it does appear that when everything is... When the contraction is allowed. Yeah. It's... I don't know. I should probably bring this up here. But I'm thinking of a... I just brought up childbirth. There is a YouTube, some people on YouTube that talk about orgasmic childbirth. Some people think it's bullshit.

But I think it's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Like imagine, you know, instead of 36 hours of agony... 36 hours. Right? But I explored it a little bit, you know, because I was curious. And the people who talk about it or teach it, what they say is it's really like they don't even use the word contraction. Like that word's... Like it's more... Sensation might be a word that they might use or if they're going to use a word at all. But it's more like it's just fully allowed whatever is showing up. And I think in that... Allowing of what? Comes. I don't know if this is relevant to what we're doing.

But I'm just curious. I think the allowing of the contraction is where like the peace is or the acceptance or the okayness is. But when there's a contraction and we say we don't want this or like the anger and I say I don't want this. Yeah, I should be peaceful. And then there's a separation and then there's a middle person. And it's... You know, like then where are you really when there's like, you know, you're not... Yeah, there's just so much happening, you know, and you've kind of just... Yeah, you don't need a lot of thought to allow, do you? No, yeah. You just... It's experiential, I guess.

Yeah, if you can... Yeah, just experience it and... Yeah. No, no worries. Did you want to say something? No. I have a couple of comments. Actually... Regarding allowing, we don't construct any self that is agreeing, allowing, not allowing, forbidding. No, forget about it. It's again the round way. If something's appearing, that's how life is expressing at this moment. You don't have to allow it. There's no you. Yeah. So there is really... It has already shown up. So life has allowed it. So rather than allowing it by yourself on top of what life has already done, just... Dissolve yourself and be with life. That has already allowed it.

That's the easiest way. And that's the non-dual way without any action required, practice required. Yeah, I think it was very valuable, my question. No, no, I don't say that... I don't evaluate your question. I just kind of elaborate on the idea of you have to do this. You have to accept it. You have to allow it. Yeah, it's so much simpler to see that there is no you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so we got a couple of questions here. Ram says... Oh, actually, Ram is quoting Gilbert. Discrimination always happens. You know the difference between a chair and a dog, but it is not a problem until it's related back to me.

Oh, I thought it was Bob's. But yeah, whoever says that. Yes, and the cat also discriminates, and it knows not to walk into the wall, but it doesn't relate, so there is no suffering. Good point, Ram. Thank you. And Amarnath says, Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Not differentiating between intellect, word, or non-self, and self is the best discrimination, non-dual awareness. And impersonal self appearing as many personal abilities, ego, or doership. And Catherine says, To Ram, like your input, keep it up. Yes, Ram, keep it up. And Amarnath, Thanks, dear, there is only... angryness. No me or angry man ego working on ego. We, disguised as others, both are false.

Separation and non-separation, both are notions. Lindsay. I was thinking about Lindsay just an hour ago. Hello, all. Contraction and expansion are part of the natural rhythm of all manifestation. How beautiful. Yeah, look at the tides coming in and out. Look at the... you know that everything comes in cycles look at the winter summer flow everything constantly changing thank you for that lindsay yes it's contracting expanding heart lungs all of it yes so labeling something as anger already gives it a characteristic of something undesirable and it brings up stuff from the past that you're relating to every time that you were angry before so kind of links it in yes while finding that space of childlike curiosity and exploring that i think that's what you actually express very beautifully suddenly there is anger even if you don't know what it is even if you don't call it anger but oh wow interesting wow that's live that's a liveness and with that curious attitude life really gets the quality attention because whatever life presents in the field of awareness it presents it because it requires attention so now if that non-judgmental curious attention lands on that presented vibration it naturally fulfills itself that's the cycle of life alive and it changes it moves on while very often the responses psychological responses which are also natural because they were preconditioned are to suppress it or perhaps i don't know go and beat up the pillow or whatever some sort of responses that don't actually honor that energy that life brings into the awareness so that non-relational and non-medicated not medicated by the personality filters or which is also unavoidable but when it's seen true the quality of that response is changing stride away it's not mechanical anymore it's not unconscious anymore so yeah it is uh as lindsay says natural rhythm of all manifestation and byron says me me me me love me see me empower me make me comfortable make me belong and safe yeah good point byron that's the source of all the upsets and because he doesn't really care what all nonprofit activists say about suing for their rights or doing益的 of all problems, the me and the neediness of the me.

And Dale says, Bob can you please speak about no preference? Preference, partiality, just leaving it as it is. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. Just leave it. Everything as is and it changes by itself. If you're holding one thing against the other then your problem is this isn't hings and wings. The great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised. Like the smallest distinction however, that heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. So with that distinction, you've separated things in the sense of separation is problems. Unaltered, leaving everything as it is, it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected.

Just as it is. And it changes by itself. Because everything is constantly transient. There's nothing that's still. It's all transient. Constantly changing. There are thousands of cells dying in that body that you are right now. You don't realize. And being replaced. But we hang on to the old concepts while we attach to things that keeps us in a static position instead of moving on with life. Subtitles by the Amara.org community Life as the Psychologist says is unafraid and free. Leave it as it is. To say leave it as it is, it is not speaking to an individual who is supposed to do anything. It is really the same way of saying what does space do?

Does space alter, modify, correct things? Space leaves everything as it is. So relax out of being a person into being space-like or sky-like awareness. Relax out of constantly trying to fix things into just being that allowing already without doing the allowing. That's the leaving and including the preference. If the preference arises, leave it as it is. Space leaves it as it is. But as Bob says, holding on to. Now introducing the idea. And again, nobody does it. That's also life does that. Life introduces the idea of being a person, being a costume and holding preferences, holding into judgments or justifications. That's also life. And again, leaving it as it is, meaning finding your identity with space rather than with the pattern, with the behavior pattern.

And that already relaxes the behavior pattern. And that's the magic. That's what breaks the spell. Because even though you don't relax out and pretend to be a space so you fix the pattern, no, there is no you who has any preference. Pattern doesn't need to be fixed. You don't give attention with this call for that anger to disappear. You don't want it to disappear. Space doesn't care. It doesn't want to disappear. Finding out that you are that open field of consciousness in which all those things happen, the preference for things to be any other way than they are, the preference for things to be any other way than they are, the preference for things to be any other way than they are, is gone.

It's really just resonating back with the essence of what you are. And of course, on the surface of that whole landscape, there will be body experiencing pain, or there will be body craving for a cigarette or a drink, or there will be body feeling offended. But now, the essence that you are is the space holding, the consciousness, the awareness of that landscape. Stay with that essence. Hahaa great soup organisation. Mm-hmm . The Sagar Devas says, if you realize you are dreaming a dream, you call the world. He says stop logging four ways out. the dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other.

He says love all of it or none of it and the rest will be done for you by the same life essence that brought it all about in the first life. It's who takes care of itself. If you relax into it. Mm-hmm . to fix it modify to correct it we're taking a stance of a separate entity there somebody that can do something about it and it's not two remember it's only the one essence and again when he says love all of it or none of it what he really says is have absolutely equal approach to everything like you can say everything matters or nothing matters love all or love none it doesn't if you don't differentiate if you have absolutely equal attitudes towards everything then you have no attitude that's the point not dividing it yeah there's no division and dale allison says i like to apply this to the discussion about the feelings and moods and keith says right whose feelings and moods so yeah that's a i think which is which is good really that you know whatever arises whether it is a feeling or mood or whether it is a physical pain or hunger or thought or no thought it's just the way life expresses experiencing and expresses and to find the resonance with your true nature is to find the resonance in the space like awareness or consciousness which is the basic screen for those moods and feelings yeah you go i think it's almost like the the the screen or this this emptiness or this space like awareness becomes like the foreground yes and and all the antiques and experiences and everything because it becomes the background it's a it's a shift like but once upon a time they're all the experiences of the uh you know the foreground and the space is a background turns around and um in the turning around then everything is fine but then there's the middle one is?- resolved by itself.

Yeah, beautifully said. You were going to say something? Keith says, everything resolves itself in the absolute. Yeah, I've had some, like, got the preference of my perfume in my farts. Oh, of course. Who cares, huh? Space doesn't have a problem with it, right? No, it's fine. The preference is all right. You're not testing it out here, are you? No. Fart like awareness. Yeah, I was just thinking, when we become absolutely concerned with every nuance of our mind, the mind is going left, right and centre, the emotions. Oh, I'm thinking this and I've got to act on that and now this has become this and I must act on this and this is the way of the world, isn't it?

Yeah, the importance. The importance of every little shift in reality mind is just abstract. It's totally abstract, isn't it? It's none of that. The answer doesn't lie in dealing with everything. It's just a little change of... It's a little quirk of change of your emotion or whatever. That's just the way that it seems to appear. Yeah. But you are much greater than that in as much that you are the totality of all of that. And, yeah, I've got to say on that note, now we're going to twine the wine. Yeah. So mine's about, you know, just kind of sinking into it all again. I'm not quite...

I'm not quite there as some people are, but I noticed when you, Bob, were talking, I was sitting and, I guess, meditating, but I noticed that, like, I think it was this morning I was going through a process, like, of, well, I called it, like, just forgetting, and, like, when I want to, like, kind of just settle into the spaciousness, just having this kind of, I'll say intention, because, you know, it's just like letting go, like a forgetting. And so I was kind of in that when you were talking. But my meditation practice for quite a long time, has been, like, watching, you know, anyway, watching what happens.

Let's just say that. And, but I realised there was still this idea of myself as a watcher. Mm. And just noticing that, like, I can go deeper than that, but it starts to become once, like, you know, because some, like, I guess in, yeah, some meditation practices or some philosophies, they say, like, become the watcher, you know, and the mind wants to make that into something as well, or this watcher, like, as something that's, or, you know, like, anyway. So, yeah, I just, like, it's like this whole process, I'll call it a process, is there's no doing. You literally, like, you don't watch, you don't, you know, nothing.

Yeah, it's, it's kind of the opposite. I think, yeah, someone said that it's like the opposite of Yeah. everything we've ever done before. That, yeah. You know. That non-doing. Yeah. Non-doing. Noticing is non-doing. Mm. That's being in the centre again, watching, seeing instead of watcher. Yeah. Seeing, tasting, tasting. Witnessing, ing. Mm. Yeah. And it is a really kind of, I mean, you don't need it anymore. How wonderful. But there is an exercise for people who sometimes get locked with the practice and the instruction to be able to do it. Mm. Yeah. Instruction to be a witness. Now, if you're witnessing everything that's happening, oh, you already one stop closer to enlightenment or whatever.

Mm. And that now, identification, I'm the witness of what's happening. But there is still identified as it. The nice simple exercise, which I described in my book there, is the exercise of locating, trying to locate the witness. Now, you can't locate it. OK, let's say it's a vaguely maybe around here, where I'm looking from. This is where the witness is. But how do you know that? Where are you looking from to actually locate the witness being vaguely around here? Oh, well, it's kind of like a space from behind, finding it around here. Oh, how do you know that? How did you locate that? And then suddenly shifting, answering question, how do you know witness is here or here or here?

Where do you look from that witness? And then where do you look from that witness? Where are you looking from? How do you know this is where you're looking from? How do you know? And then suddenly you realize that awareness is shifting and is space-like. Every step back is kind of more spacious and less locatable until it completely drops any attempt to locate. And you see that there is witness-ing, the knowing, but without any point or anyone who does the witnessing. But you've already there. So I'm just telling it more to you. OK. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. I was sitting there. I was sitting there, and I realized I have an idea of me being here, like watching.

And then like this, like, yeah, this just kind of, I don't know, like phantom of a witness being in this kind of shape of like etheric shape of my body kind of thing. And then I'm like, well, that's not real. You know? And yeah, well, that's like, I don't know, spaciousness. Well, I'm just experiencing. Experiencing. Experiencing. You're the experiencing. That which is experiencing, seeing, hearing, taking. That. Yeah. The being. That is all there is. Yeah. I would say that like in the past, you know, I've had experiences of expansion or something beyond what I thought I was. And then I noticed that the issue was that it was an experience I couldn't identify with it still, even though I had had, yeah.

And so I'm not ready to say what I am, but I'm just going through a process of realizing what I'm not. That's it. If you're ever ready to say who you are or what you are, you have to start investigating. Yes. Because there is no answer to that. Keep recognizing you are not, you must be what's left. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Discarding. Stopping. Yeah. If I say I'm God, I'm absolute, I'm space, I'm this, I'm that. Well, I'm delusional. Lock me up in a mental institution. Because I'm giving myself the identity, which I can't stand up for. Yeah. The final answer to question who am I, is there is no one to answer.

There's nobody to answer that question, to ask that question. If there is still someone there who knows who they are, well, the investigation is not complete. True. The final. The final freedom is when there is no one there. Life goes on, it expresses, but there is no one there who can say, ask who am I or answer who am I. That's, I don't know, it's as close as you can get it with the mind. If you ask the mind who am I and the mind is utterly honest, it will say, I don't know. And that's it. Yeah. If there is any other answer, silence is the answer.

True. And you know, you, like I was, yeah, thinking back to that, that moment of like seeing this idea of the witness and, you know, there is this like process of pinpointing. And, but, you know, there is, like someone said, there's the background. Yeah. And, and the pinpointing is like, yeah, just seeing ideas that I had created that separated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yes, Bob? Oh, I thought you wanted to say. You could also like make it really simple and just say like, watch the mind and see how it operates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, the mind is just one little mirror. Yeah. The mind is just a, I'm not going to say a mirror or anything like that. That's not really true. If you think about it, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a mirror. It's just a mirror. Yeah. Because I think, you saw the, it's kind of, in my mind, or whatever you are, it is a mirror. Yeah. Yes, it is. It is a mirror. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is a mirror. Exactly. And then when you, well, I mean, I think, it's not a mirror. Yeah. Yeah. And we're just, we've already, I've discussed it.

and that's it we're wrapping it up so NASA says the issue is he thinks there is an issue yeah great point yeah the issue is he thinks there is an issue that's it and I'm gonna says beautiful experience is formed past or dead mind experiencing its presence discards the discard yes thank you everyone that's that's about it for today and thank you for your beautiful contribution and present and we gonna go for lunch