28 Aug 2022. Sailor Bob and nonduality group discussions.

You're on. On? On what? It's a real life thing. Yeah. Well, it's the same old story. The non-dual. One without a second. Only that. And that's a word we don't take much notice of for a while. That. When you look into this stuff, you'll see that that is everything. Everything is that. Because that's the chair you're sitting in, that's the room we're in. It's all one of the words we've learnt. We call it that. And non-duality means not two. We call it one without a second. Not the second on the clock. But without the other. Not the time. Hey. So to say. Everything is that one essence.

And it's the... idea of something other that causes all our problems. Because duality is relationship relative to. And while there's a concept or idea of any relativity... Open it up. Open it up. Relativity implies there's other than one. And that's translated as me and not me. Me or I. We take to be the personal. The separate. And if it's all the one essence... It is absolute. Nothing can be added to absolute. Nothing can be taken away from it. If... Nothing can be added to it, nothing can be taken away from it. Who is there? Or what is there to say to? Or other. If we've taken on this idea or concept...

When we learn words. We learn words like I or me. And we're not born with any words. Words are picked up when you're a couple of years old. And your parents fussing around you. Who have learnt words. They aren't saying your little Johnny or your little Jane or your little Billy. Or whatever your name might be. And we're immediately... Related to I. Or me. I is another name for ego. So we've got this idea of a concept or an ego. A separate entity. And that is the cause of all our psychological problems. Relating... To the separate entity. The individual. That... What the ancient texts tell us...

It's... Not divided. It's... Separated. It's not separated. It is... That. Everything is that. One essence. Experience. Expressing. Patterning. Shaping. Forming. As everything. Now that doesn't... Take much... To recognise... Or realise. If we pause... Long enough... And investigate and learn. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And understand. And look into it. This is the idea of separation though. Every... One seemingly takes it on board. Every human... Being. When we learn that primary thought. I. You can't do much with I. As it is. But we add to it. I am this body. I am this mind. I am Bob.

Or Bill. Whatever my name might be. We add all these concepts. All more words onto it. And separate it with the concept. Or the word. And they tell you... In Buddhism... The great perfection. The perfection is same as absolute. Total. Nothing added to it. Nothing taken away. And they tell you in Buddhism the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It is this... Awareness. And tasting awareness. The when. without any of the concepts or words dividing it. What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. But we're dividing it with the word. So have a look at these words and realise that every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been picked up, learnt.

How many words were you born with? When you look into that, you realise you can't remember your birth. Why can't you remember your birth? Purely and simply because you had no words to say, I was born. And you came into being and for the first couple of years you didn't know anything about birth or words. And the capacity of reasoning developed at about two, two and a half, somewhere around that age. Which is a capacity these human forms have which is more developed than other animals and insects and things like that. The capacity of reasoning. Working it out in the think or mind. With that capacity of reasoning you took on this idea of I is me, is separate, it's an entity, it's a person, an individual.

All these words added onto that primary sound I. I am. What they call the primary universal moan. Or noise, or vibration. Or om. I am. We translate it into I am. Into this entity. Which we've got to put some form or name on. And we say this is me. I am. Om or I am is a sound, a vibration. Which vibrates as words, thoughts, ideas, images, concepts. All vibration. It comes upon us when we're a couple of years old. Our parents who have picked up words, they teach us more words. We go to school and we learn more words. And our life becomes full of words, concepts, ideas.

And our lives are based on these concepts, words and ideas and images. Even the word person comes from the ancient Latin persona, the mask. So, we've got this conceptual image or mask, or conceptual word that I am this body. I am this mind. Which is the pattern that intelligence, energy or life essence which is animating it and expressing when it learns concepts or words. So now this I or me has become this separate entity. This individual. This person. And from there on it's reinforced. Believed in. Taken to be real. More words come into it. And we form a conceptual image. I'm the Australian. I'm a good fellow.

I'm not so good. I'm unhappy. I'm fearful. I was born to this country or whatever. All of this. All sorts of words are added on to make it seem real and whole. And the energy of belief in those words takes on the believed in reality. So now this person is taken to be what I really am. This body, mind, this person. And along with that which brings about the sense of separation I am this person. I'm not you. I'm not the other. Or I'm not anything other than it. I'm not this or any other thing. But I am this individual. And that sense of separation is insecurity.

It's vulnerability. Because no longer is the belief there or the understanding or recognising that I am whole. I am complete. I am absolute. Instead it's reinforced. Somebody asks you who you are you'll say I am Bill or Bob or whatever your name might be. Reinforcing the belief that you are this person. That's all. You never say I am absolute. I am totality. I am the universal. Because we've lost sight of it. And so we're focusing and functioning from the idea of separation insecurity vulnerability. No wonder our life becomes anxious, fearful, unhappy depressed jealous, envy all the rest of it. Because we see all these other patterns, shapes and forms and they are judged what I believe I am.

And how they're functioning and seemingly he's doing much better than I. Or she more realised or greater than I. Comparison. Separation. Instead of leaving everything as is unaltered unmodified uncorrected now it's judged from the seeming other. How do I compare with the other? He's got this or she's got that and he can do this and I'll do that. And I poor little me am not good enough. I'm fearful. I'm unhappy. Incomplete. Not complete. And we live a life full of fear anxiety stress guilt remorse jealousy envy unhappiness. And there's Wei Wei Wei telling you why are you unhappy? And he says because of everything you say everything you do and everything you think is for yourself.

For this believed inseparability for this self. And he says there isn't one. Telling you that basically you are the reality which you've lost sight of. And you're going to be unhappy if you're not relating to this believed in self. And they tell you also that the reality is that you're not happy. And they tell you also that the false there are people down through the ages so called people a person that have realised or recognised their true nature. And they tell you have a look and see for yourself. Because the false cannot stand up to an investigation. What do they mean by that? Have a look at this believed inseparability of this self that is fearful, unhappy and depressed.

And investigate and see if it's so or not. When the scriptures tell you that it's all the absolute. It's all the one reality. The one actual. And this manifestation they point out is a phenomenal manifestation. Phenomenal. Another word we picked up and learnt what does it mean? What's the meaning of it? Have a look in the dictionary. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So this manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. It means that you're an appearance. Appear to be so. I'm an appearance. The tree, the flower. The room, the house. Everything is appearing to be so. It's not a reality. Reality is the one life.

The one essence. The one intelligence. Energy. I use that term. Or if you like to use the term and believe in it. The one God. But even if it is the one God. What have we done? We think this God is much greater than I am. Something bigger and better. But it's not. Than what I am. So I've separated myself from it. It's not going to help too much. All my fears and anxiousness and depression are caused by this sense of separation. Instead of seeing through the separation. I'm adding to it by believing there is this higher power. That is so great it's going to save me.

It's going to do for me what I can't do for myself. But I'll have to pray to it. I'll have to meditate on it. I'll have to do all sorts of things to try and save it. And so we set out on the path. The so called path. But this God will as they say deliver us from evil. Take us into a heaven on earth. How many people do you know that is delivered? Taken to be real. But others will say this has got not good enough and they'll look into it a bit further. And they'll recognise what's been pointed out to the ages. That it's already that.

I am that. That is that. Tat Vam Vasi whatever they call it. That is what I am. And the that they're talking about is not the person. It's the absolute. Because innately you know that when you look into it. You'll say that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the things in the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. That everything in this manifestation is already that. So when I'm saying I am that. Adding to the personal. The separate entity. I'm knowing the truth. And as they say. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. Not the belief that I am the person. I am the body.

I am this mind. I am this sense of separation. I am that. Absolute. Totality. Great perfection. Even though we hear that. The majority of the population around you are still believing in that sense of separation. And you seemingly step out of it. And you step out of it you feel lost. And you're still unfulfilled and isolated. I'm the separate one from all this. And all these others are on the search. But recognize or knowing the truth that you are instead of you being out of step with the world and everything in it. They're out of step with it. In their belief. And you realize that you are not alone.

But in the recognizing and seeing through it I know that it wasn't true. And then the others when the confidence and absolute certainty that you are that and you're living as that people will come to your door. They'll recognize those that are interested will recognize something in you. And that's what you are. Shouts so loudly that I cannot hear what you say. And it's true. What you are will. In the recognition of it. But in the belief that you are this separate entity and you are focused in appearing as that. That is believed in and appears to be so. People will recognize it. So it's only by knowing and recognizing the truth that you can be free of these beliefs.

Another word is that word belief. Have a look at that. The dictionary definitely releases unquestioned acceptance of something. We've got these words, concepts, ideas which we've accepted, taken to be real. Haven't questioned them. So it's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. In spite of the reasoning and looking into it we haven't. We accept it without question. When it's questioned and looked into and seen through it's acceptance of an alleged fact. You're no longer alleging it. You're seeing through it without positive knowledge or proof. You'll have the positive knowledge and proof that you are not this individual. You're not this separate entity.

And then where must you be living from? What you actually are. The absolute. The great perfection. Be that. Be what you are. Not what you think you are or what you believe yourself to be. See what's happening when you do that. Why are you unhappy? And you realise, yes. I am unhappy. I'm not content or satisfied with what's going on around me. There's also always these glitches coming up. The fear, the anxiety the jealousy, the envy, the depression. All sorts of concepts, sensations, which become sensations or feelings that the energy of belief is going into and making it seem real. And there's no longer that contentment.

There is great unhappiness there. A sense of well-being being well, nothing wrong is obscured. And all these sensations, feelings are taken to be true. See how it functions in you. Something comes up and you like it. How do you know? Well, you've had the sensation of something you like and it's good. And we don't want it to go. Not realising that everything, everything in this translation in this pattern, shape and form is changing. It's constantly changing. Transient. But you don't want the good things to go. Not realising that because it's always changing, no matter how much you love the things, how much you want to keep them.

We love so many things and want to keep them. Don't want them to change. Not realising that everything is changing. We don't want it to go. So what do we do? We try to keep it there. Do what we can to stop it from going. What do we do without trying to keep something there that is constantly changing and we can't stop it? We need to resist it. And that's what exactly happens. Resistance. When you're resisting something, what are you doing? You're in conflict with it. You're in conflict with the other. You're fighting it. Instead of leaving it as it is, not realising no matter how much you love it, it's going to change.

Just like that look in this manifestation. And thinking that it's all changing constantly. It's all ever fresh. Ever changing. The resistance comes about. Conflict. In the conflict comes up the anxiety, the stress, the fear, the guilt, the unhappiness. All these conceptual images. Words, labels. Which put the meaning into it. The sensation, the feeling and the meaning goes into it. And that sensation upsets the body. Raises the heartbeat, get the blood going. Pressure going up. All sorts of thoughts. Anxiety, stress and guilt. So this belief in conceptual image me is causing all these fears, anxieties, stress. All the psychological problems that are going on. Something comes up and you don't like it.

A thought comes up and you say well I shouldn't be thinking that. That's a bad thought. A thought of unhappiness. A thought of getting revenge or anger or fighting with somebody. Or doing something about it. Because if I do that I think it'll fix me. Again, I'm trying to get rid of this thought. I shouldn't be thinking like that. So I'm again in resistance. This time the resistance is the other way. Trying to stop it. Instead of being with it. Trying to keep it there. So in that resistance again there's conflict. Unhappiness, fear, anxiety, stress. All these words come up which causing the uneasiness, the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt.

Another word for uneasiness is dis-ease. You're not at ease anymore. So you can understand now and recognise that's what our life consists of. As these separate entities, as these individuals, as these believed in persons there's constant fear, anxiety, stress. Guilt, unhappiness. Something hangs around for a little while but it soon changes into the opposite. But look into it. Recognise. And realise that it's all because it's related to this believed in me. This individual. This separate entity. And see that me is the cause of the fear. The cause of the anxiety. The cause of the stress. The guilt. The jealousy. Me is the cause. They are the effects of the cause.

The anger, the fear, the jealousy, the resistance, the conflict. Are the effects. And I see that. Me is the cause. They are the effects. The simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to the cause? If I'm not relating to this belief in me. Seeing me for what it is. The concept, an image. And can there be an effect if it's not divided relatively to me and the other? If it's not related it must be just as it is. What is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. As is. Cause and effect is what we call karma. And if I see that me is the cause and recognise there's no me.

What's gonna happen to the karma? Isn't it going to be left as it is? Unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. Just as it is. As is. It's constantly transient. It'll change. And what was good yesterday and is bad now left just as it is. We'll swing around and become good together. And then swing around again and become bad again. Continually separated and dividing. But not separated into individual separate entities. It's the one essence. It's the one stick, the one sided the stick's got two ends to it. Coin's got two sides to it. It's a two sided coin. When one side appears we like it and the other side we don't like we're dividing it.

We think they're two separate things. When you realise they're not separate you don't have to fight with it. You don't have to try and force the bad away. Leave it as it is. Unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. Don't indulge in it. Don't engage in it. And it'll change by itself. Just have a look out there in nature. And see what's going on in nature. The earth is rolling around the sun. This the way this side of the earth now is facing the sun. And it's light. And what was dark a few hours ago is now light. And the other end that is now facing away from the sun is dark.

Does the sun know anything about the darkness and the light? It doesn't. Does the earth know anything about the darkness? It doesn't. Because it's still only the earth. It's still only the sun. It's not divided. And different aspects of it make it appear to be dualism. And that's again the phenomenal manifestation. So leaving everything as it is it'll come about. But see what we've done. We've constantly reinforced the separation and the division. Instead of only lasting the fear and the anxiousness and the depression. Instead of only lasting for a little while and letting the change come about. It's reinforced more and more. With the belief in it.

And the struggle to change it. Think of Australia. We can change a concept with a concept. Impossible. And the struggle goes on. Leave everything as it is. Unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. See for yourself. Give yourself a chance. By allowing it to be as is. What is means that. Unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. Just as it is. No preference. No partiality. No comparison. Not being judged or separated from the believed in separate entity. Which is a false reference point. Trying to get to the truth through utilizing a false reference point. No wonder we get stuck into it. No wonder we suffer. Allow it to be as it is. And see for yourself.

Get the actual experience and understanding and recognition in your own life. By allowing it to be. Question the false and see for yourself. The false cannot stand up to investigation. And do as they say. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from? What's the bondage? The so called bondage is the bondage of self. Bondage in a believed in entity. An ego. A separate entity. An individual. Question it. Look at it. Discover it. Touch it out. Is there a separate entity there? Are you separate? What is that? That which is breathing you. Beating your heart. Growing your finger. Is it the body doing that?

Is it the mind doing that? Is it the thoughts doing that? Or is it the life that's animating and expressing? The same universal life. There's a saga that points out there is only life. That's all there is. There is no body. No person. No separate entity. No individual. That lives on the life. But life lives on life. That's all there is. And out of life more life comes. Have a look at it. Test it out. See if the false can stand up to investigation. See if it works. And some of you know it already. Some of you are living it. Some of you had taste of it.

Some of you might have doubts about it. Some of you might have questions. And if you know it, let it out. The words you might express it in might be a bit different from these. But it might be the very words that somebody else needs to hear that will resonate with them and wake them up to it. So get into it. I'm going to have a spell. Thank you. So anyone would like to add something? Comment? Ask questions? Share? We have 25 people with us and we have actually a couple of comments. Julia, British Julia says, this is my favorite part of the week. And Dan says, limitless expression right here, talk.

And Belinda, the truth will set you free. Loved it. That's the simple beauty of the message. It is to resonate with something within you that already knows that. Because the moment Bob says, do this, relax, leave it as it is. If the mind resonates with that, it's going to take you nowhere. It will come up with logic like, what do you mean do this? There is no me. I can't do anything. And then you are in the evil circle. The resonance is to come from a different place. It's to come from the innate knowing. That's why sometimes Bob hammers down to listen with your heart.

Not with the mind. Not with the smart ass that always knows better and always wants to show off with logic and other stuff. But it's about what it is about. There is a part, there is not even a part, there is a whole really. It is the whole, the wholeness in you. Space-like. Space-like awareness. That is already relaxed. That is already allowing everything to be as it is. Space doesn't complain about things being a particular way. It's a space-like awareness. It's the knowing. The pure cognizing. And then we have Amarna sending greetings. And Raoul saying thank you. Then nothing comes up for anyone. And Bob has this effect on people that suddenly the silence.

There we go. Bob, I just, your level of passion is so deep. It kind of just goes straight, it hits a chord in my heart and I'm sure everybody here. And I mean, every time I come I think, oh my God, he's incredible today. But you know, today, just, there's something about that passion of going over the same message in different words and your, just your kindness and your love to purport, to actually give that message across. And your, your caring for us is so moving. And I really want to thank you for that. You know, I feel every time I come, the resonance, you know, as you said Kat, it's going in, the message, it's kind of, it's resonating somewhere deep inside of me.

And I have, it's also my favorite day of the week on Sundays. And excuse me for always being late. That chord, Even that can change. That chord in your heart that resonates, that's the thing to focus on. Never mind what he says. Yeah, but the words actually have that sort of a frequency, they carry on in that. Yeah, well it's only energy. That's all it is. But if it stirs something up there, that's what you need to recognize it. It's here also. It doesn't have to be there or anywhere else. I don't have to wait for it or go to somebody to look for it.

It's already here. Exercise it. Let it open up to it. There you go. Thank you for that. That's a beautiful saying. And JB says that's my favorite day too. Favoritism. Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful because that's, oh, Juliet was here too. That's why I do this four times a week. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yes, ultimately your favorite time is now. And this is now. Yes, Jess. Here she goes. Tisha, like Adam's? Yeah, today like today I came with a bit suffering here and I also noticed that I was actually really more listening to Bob, to you. And I could actually yeah, it's quite interesting when I'm in a different state coming here.

I wasn't, last week I came two weeks ago I came much in a better state. I thought but yeah, now every time I go something happens in my life or in my emotions that I actually can listen with a different way of looking at that what is actually happening with me right now. And what really resonated was leave it as it is. That was actually giving me that space, everything is okay, leave it as it is. Yeah, I do tend to think a lot about the emotions and what's happening and try to escape it if I can. The sort of sadness, emotions or jealousy or whatever.

And of course you can't do it. So yeah, I was actually very, I don't know how to put it all in words, but it was very interesting to yeah, to actually listen it with this different ear. And I was actually, before I was just like coming here and I felt the energy and I came happy home and I really drive me to come here all the time. And today I was noticing I had my eyes mostly open and I was really tuning in to what you're saying and yeah, I'm a much more neutral state when I came here this morning. Yeah, I was hanging onto, I don't know how you call it in words, happiness let's say.

Happiness linked to identity, a person. And that seems to go away or seems not to be there. And then suddenly nothing is there anymore. And which is the and then by seeing that non-duality of what happiness, what you think is happiness is and then the other part that they come together and that it's actually needs to be go the other way as well. And leave it as it is. Makes it okay that's what it is. That's it. No need to think about it back and forth. So yeah. So it's growing in you. Yeah, it's growing. So again? It's growing in you. Yes, and it's sort of interesting how you need to reach to this suffering to actually get it.

You know, like otherwise you wouldn't be open to it. That's what I recognize it as. That's it. I got a comment. This is Belinda. And she says, can the resonance and energy come in the way of a gut feeling? And if your heart is also hurting so you know the truth of a situation but needs to act on it but can't be anxious and worried about how to do that? Would you like to say something? What did she say? I think that in a situation that the resonance and the energy the way of a gut feeling is there but the heart is also hurting. So you know the truth of the situation but you need to act on it and you're anxious, feeling anxious from acting on it.

Yeah. They win it, don't they? Yeah, so yeah. It's totally, if that's what's happening that's what's happening. If there is a recognition that there is some sort of a resistance or difficulty in acting because the acting may be hurtful or whatever it is. The good thing to address is to minimize the story. I mean if you look at the wild life, if you look the way you know the bird has to push the little child out of the nest it might come with some sort of an uneasiness although it's usually just an instinctual behavior. But they don't have a narrative so they don't doubt themselves second guess themselves.

They don't call anxiety anxiety. So there is just a bubbling energy there. It's not a fear, it's not the worry anymore. It's just the energy. I remember Jane was beautifully highlighting how Bob was, you want to remind us Jane how Bob was advising you on your performance? Yeah, when you were saying that I was just thinking about that. You know I used to, people used to say do you get nervous before you perform? You know I'd say always. You know and Bob you know Bob said to me one day well don't call it being nervous. Just say it's the energy you need to do the performance.

So that is the same as everything. If you don't name if you don't, if you're not obsessed with naming everything that comes up because that's the nature of the mind. Naming everything that comes up. You know you start to live more from the heart than the head. You start to just be here now and you're operating more from the heart rather than analysing everything that happens and naming it a particular thing like jealousy, fear and even happiness you know. If it's happiness contrived by you know getting something from somebody well that's a very different different knowing than the uncaused joy of your own being. That's a different kind of happiness.

And so you become more attracted to that than all the surface stuff bubbling around and all the labelling you know I'm nervous, I'm fearful, I'm anxious, I'm this, I'm that. It's just the nature of the mind to name everything and claim everything. This alleged me which is also just the memory. Claiming everything. I feel this because she did this to me you know blah blah blah I feel nervous because I'm about to perform blah blah blah It's just a narrator naming and claiming everything. You know so you start to be much more attracted to living right here right now where your hands are you know no story just what's coming up now.

You know that becomes much more attractive and I've been listening to Bob since 1988 and I'm never sick of it. Every time I hear him is fresh and new. Every time he talks it's from the heart to the heart. You know and even though some of the things are similar they're different every time you know because it's fresh and new. I was just going to say I think for me there's no judgment around anything like even things like what you might call anxiety or sadness or grief that's all okay as well expressing like there's a sort of an impersonality to it or an indifference to it like it's just playing out and it's where the mind steps in and goes that shouldn't be happening or I shouldn't be feeling this because I'm not here and all this and going down those rabbit holes so for me I'm feeling more and more now I'm in this than before you know I mean all the emotions are coming up and expressing and sometimes it can feel rough and you know but there's a like I say there's not as Bob says if it's left alone it'll dissolve pretty quickly and evaporate and watching it all play out and the rich tapestry of all this stuff that wants to come through and out and I don't know yeah I've sort of come to a bit more that place now and rather than oh there should be this blissful state and I'm not here everything's wired I don't feel any you know it's all there's no judgement it doesn't care at all what is coming out or expressing passed off beautifully there dido round the back reverse path he says there's no non duality in football I was just going to say that that's fantastic Adrian isn't it that you know what you experience is the full gamut of the full expression of your emotions but there's something about it there's an exquisite nature in that as the sadness arises you're really with it you really feel it it's just beautiful it enables you to sing the saddest love songs and all of this all the emotions all the expressions of human existence are exquisite aren't they and what we do is we learn how to let it be and learning how to let it be we um we just somehow it's like being more involved and less involved at the same time you know what I mean by that yeah being human being a free human being here is an exquisite thing I'm free to feel I'm free to be as human as I like I have a few comments from online Amanath says me is others that's the fun coming and going is mind phenomena pattern most of the time we say leave it as it is mechanically superficially with narrowed down ego by this label holds the concept tightly only non conceptual awareness can dissolve or transcend the concepts and Belinda says thank you so much so grateful for the love and guidance and the heart and Amanath says thanks a million Jane mind itself is dependent named and claimed department there is no one who is claiming or there is no things or personalities which we can say ours or others I'm I emotion is emotion and Dale says oops for me sometimes when those feelings come up there is a clear indication of an action that's required to be taken appears as well not necessarily to fix the feeling rather just the natural energy to take action yes and that was interesting what Peter was saying you know kind of flipping between being a messy human with his hair messy emotions and involvement and attachment and labeling everything whatever vibration comes up stick a label and go dive into it that's the point without one there is no other without the duality of being not being person non person awake and involved and identified and disidentified free and bound without that there is no appearance that is how it expresses the suffering starts when there is identification ok and the vibration comes labeling happens those are all natural and then the I idea and claiming happens that's also part of the pattern of the habitual functioning of that device here and if that is not recognized then suffering kicks in if that is recognized it dissolves it is a movement like movement in the sphere of hearing sound no sound movement in the sphere of eyes the object no object all of that is just the dance of Maya and if you see it from that point you are the space and within that space the dance the exclusive mystery of life unfolds yeah I think being the space is an exclusive thing to practice too actually just let it come be the space rather than the objects in the space or the thing we are not looking at anything we are looking at space really we are looking at that emergent field of creativity in the universe that is everywhere and we are walking through it creating a world as we go but that world is created from nothing remember it is nothing and because it is transient it is nothing it is not something that passes away that which is unreal passes away so everything here is transient so what are we in we might therefore be in a field of pure creativity just watching everything arise spontaneously in front of us as we walk through bang bang bang bang bang beautiful exquisite isn't it out of this world it is amazing I don't know how to put it exactly but we are the Alpha and the Omega we are the beginning and the end we are the Bob and the non-Bob bobbing in and out bobbing up bobbing down can I read something that I read the other day that I came oh thanks this is a friend overseas today was one of reconciliation here in the South Island and I think it was a friend who was a friend of mine and I think it was a friend of mine in the North Eastern Hills The landscape drew a breath inhaling the rain and held it a transcendent stillness followed translating to our senses as a great cry the sound of beauty a signature it filled our hearts with a joy which now we see has always been a joy radiating to all in our view and in our minds the world to you my friend.

Oh beautiful. Well said, beautiful. So she is that one? Yeah we have comment from Amarna saying that visitors thoughts themselves are blind wanted to show and guide the brightness self forgetting that guide is prior to them and a lot of laughing. That's the energy. So evidently or at least in the story there is sometimes an occasional misinterpretation of leaving everything unaltered unmodified and uncorrected. I mean I perceive that statement as the way the Beatles would have said let it be. Yeah. Let it be. And then you said everything. So everything means everything. Okay including like while there is this second guessing you know that's sometimes when I'm told that's what you are referring to is the leave, stop trying stop the second guessing.

Okay and at the same time leaving everything unaltered unmodified that would include bad like what we call bad which of course I know is not necessarily bad but patterns. Stop trying to change the patterns. You know or Yeah. Yeah. I mean yeah. The whole idea of personal growth is sort of It's a business idea. It's a nice business idea. Fix the me. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also the way life expresses everything because it's like you know there's all these ups and downs and plagues and self-help all of it. Everything and the no thing as well. Yeah. Yeah. And yes you're totally right to leave everything as it is leave even the narrative as it is but to actually be able to leave it as it is you have to somehow recognize that it is there and that's the key point of the whole pointer.

You have to see whatever. But to leave it you have to even see that it is there. Once you see that it is there you are the space like awareness in which this arises. So you've already arrived at the pointer. Now you have nothing to do with whatever arises because there is no you. And the trick is seeing it when you're not seeing it. Huh? Where was it? There was somebody I heard somebody say they were afraid of what they didn't know they didn't know. Like well that's kind of pointless isn't it? What a wonderful way to make yourself suffer. Seriously. Yeah. I'm still noticing the thoughts can be really or the mind what do you want to say mind thoughts can be really adept at sneaking in and trying to claim anything.

Even the I'm not here sort of thing. A thought coming up I'm not here so it doesn't matter. Or I am this awareness or you know what I mean. It can very sneakily try to hook in and claim the awareness as its own. And that's a subtle one to see. And this whole thing is about seeing what I'm not. And that's been a real I don't like saying the word process but it has been a progressive weeding out and seeing through all these little nooks that try to hook in again. And I feel like like that's no longer happening if you like. But yeah I just there appears to be a few pitfalls along the way.

Where it tries to put in another claim and it's like oh that was a sneaky one. So yeah so seeing through that and yeah I'm just trying to say not trying to sound all cool and stuff like this. It's just this is a real practical investigation to get free of the fucking torment of the separate self. And that is torment. And I've been through it. And it's been a long haul. And yeah this is not an intellectual understanding. This is an experiential thing to get some freedom. And I just thank Bob and thank Kat for all the love and the guidance. So thank you. And thank you for highlighting that.

Thank you for being so honest. And not trying to be clever. I also I also wanted to say thanks to Bob and Kat for everything. Today I came in I was late so I was kind of just personal experience. I just felt really like the knot was there and really anxious. I was like oh gosh. Then I was listening to Bob and sort of listening and then just mainly focusing on oh god this is terrible. And then I don't know I just felt like from what you were saying Bob and everyone else what they're saying here it felt like it sort of everything just went deeper.

But all the anxiety and stuff wasn't really going away but it was kind of different. So it kind of became lesser. But yeah just feeling that depth was really nice. And a different thing after sort of stopping struggling with it. Well not stopping struggling in a way but just kind of letting the struggle happen. But yeah that's my experience. So I just really related to that sort of metaphor of the ocean. And I was sort of seeing like I'm like a person on the ocean trying to struggle to get up to the sky. Like you know I want something else. You know like I want to be enlightened or whatever.

And so but actually it was more about sinking and that seemed sort of the not a very accurate description but that's sort of the image that I have from today. So thanks. Yeah. Do you still feel like you? Yeah to a degree but yeah just I don't know just kind of not as much because the help. Oh sorry. Yeah. I still do but it's like on the surface I guess it's kind of I kind of relate to what you were saying. That it's about not feeling it either so yeah. That was really good. Thanks. Yeah. I can always say thank you so much. Comments? Did you want to say something?

A couple of comments. Yeah I just wanted to highlight again what Adyen was saying. This was just so beautiful and so important to actually understand that the thought can sneak in and take over the process and now the idea comes. Oh I got it. Now the subtle I comes there. Oh I got it. Oh you don't get it. I got it. I am enlightened. And now this causes so much suffering when you land up from that height. If there is anyone there who gets something or who doesn't get something because it doesn't really matter which the thought. The thought may say oh I'm not getting it or the thought might say oh I am getting it.

If there is any thought that is like Bob says energy of belief makes that thought real. And now this is something that is being believed into reality and it feels real because it is believed. But it is still on the top of the head. It is still the mind believing something because there is now someone there who believes that it gets it or it doesn't he or she gets it or doesn't get it. So there is still a potential to relax out of that concept and really hold the space for all of the concepts and not particular one or the other. But there is a sense of presence will always be there.

There is always a presence. But now if that presence narrows down to I get it. Oh yeah I'm getting it. So that's yeah that was a beautiful reminder to actually really bring it up and highlight it because as we say it is discarding discarding, discarding, discarding until you are left with nothing. Not the nothing. The no thing. No thing feels like a field of love and life and vibrant and and radiant. But I have couple of comments there. Emma says there are no statements in natural state though it is stateless state. Fear is creation of time and space individually is just a thought. There is no next or future.

It's nothing but trap of mind. Understanding is that there is nothing to understand intellect looking at itself through the thought self. I cannot get it because it is already done. Thanks. And a lot of icons. Yes Peter. I was going to say that. Coming in we were talking about how Dean and I were talking together about how everything well that's what I said. He was thinking that every conclusion I come up with about myself or the world is false. Absolutely false. There is not a representation of the truth at all. It seems. It's a strange thing. So if I believe something is solidly real and there I've concluded about this particular situation whatever it may be I'm wrong.

That's right. I love that. I think that's fantastic. No thought is true. Because it's not true because you don't have all the facts in front of you anyway. And it's just a thought. It's a passing phenomenon. It's a passing phenomenon. It's just something which is spontaneously come and spontaneously go. It has no relevance to anything. It means nothing. And there it is. But it can also be beautiful. Yes. What a beautiful story. You like to say that, Kat. It's beautiful. What a beautiful story. Totally to be appreciated because the story, the mind, the belief systems, the ideologies, they are all just way Maya dances. There is another beautiful sophisticated movement of Maya, of illusion, of the...

It is an expression of that source of love and life. It expresses itself as let's say religion. And let's say burning witches or let's say destroying the planet. This is another way it expresses. But is it really the fact? Is it really the truth? Or is it just an image? Like a dream. You wake up from that and where is that destroyed planet or those burnt witches? They are just the thoughts. They exist when the attention goes there and bring them into reality by the act of believing it. And this moment underlying it is also a dream because it is also the appearance. In the sphere of hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, that is also appearance.

But without the narrative on it, it is some sort of like a raw experiencing. That's how life is experiencing itself as a thing, as a set of things, as the world. Even from that, there is a further relaxation when you go to sleep at night. And it all vanishes. And the bliss of being is not even remembered. Because there is no recording device on. I think we've got to take ourselves a lot less seriously than we do, actually. Because every conclusion I make about myself being false means that I'm full of shit all the time. Except when I can't be full of shit all the time unless I luck something out.

When you don't think. And you sing the song without that. That's true. That's true. That's a true friend for you. And Dean is the most amazing gift to me in that sense. He's always telling me I'm full of shit. And is he right? In reality, you are shit. What's wrong with right now if you don't think? What happens when you don't think? Is the shit there if you don't think it is? It's like you're taking to existence. I don't know what that means. You never have a pause from thinking. Try it now. You've got constipation. Well, if it's constipation or not constipation, it's still shit, isn't it?

Try it now. See if there is any shit if you don't think. No, I don't. Blah, blah, blah. I'm blighted. Thank you. And it is really nice to even just have a one millisecond of following the point of what's wrong with right now if you don't think. And see how the whole shit dissolves into the nothing because the thought is required for the shit to be there. And without the thought, there's nothing that you can say. You cannot say what awareness is, what it isn't, whether it is shit or not shit, or thought. No. Empty. And that's a beautiful glimpse of the natural state. And then there is Amarnath who says, what is false from the perspective of ego is itself from non-jewel self perspective.

So it's neither true nor false because it is not a word or thing or comment. And ha, ha, ha icon. Yes, Julia. That was just something Peter said that it reminded me of my Sedona Method days. I'd go to these retreats and there was an exercise that we'd do that was my favorite. It was an exercise to do when you need to let go. What one? Oh, you have it? There it is. There it is. Here we go. We can just play it here. Okay. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that one. Yeah, this one's got like a lot of vocal variety.

But it was like, there was the exercise. Okay, so you're going to tell me the most horrible thing that has ever happened to you. Ever. Okay. And I'm going to, you're going to just go ahead and tell me the story. You can use vocal variety. You can use gestures. You can use whatever you want. But you're only allowed to use the one word. And I'm going to give you a 30 second response. And I'm only allowed to use that one word. A lot of people really hate this exercise. Okay. It's my favorite. I love it because it just makes sort of a joke out of our drama stories, our bullshit stories.

But then after you've finished with the most horrific thing, then you also go into, now what's the best thing that's ever happened? Go ahead, tell me the best thing and then we can give our 30 second response to the best thing. In blah. In blah. But it's all in blah. So whether it's the worst or the best, it's like it works like this. Well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah! blah, blah, blah, blah. I love it. Get the blah, get the blah, blah, blah. Let's just say something in relationship to that.

It's that the mind, the so-called mind is made up of thoughts, only thought thinking is is also very good, as you said Adrian, it's very good at hiding this from us. It's very good at making serious things serious. And how does it do that? By guilt, by supposing that you might be guilty, supposing that you might be in shame. Shame and guilt are the two most potent ones because if you feel shame and guilt you are all of a sudden, these things become sacrosanct. In other words, you put them on a pedestal beyond reach of redemption. Anything that's beyond reach of redemption is truth, isn't it?

You make it into a truth, into a religious truth, or a belief which is unquestionable, unquestioned beliefs. Because a belief is already an unsubstantiated fact. But, yeah, just putting that in. Just putting that in. Just as a note of seriousness and warning to watch how the mind works in terms of making the blah into something real. In fact, it's still blah. Even with your guilty bits and shameful bits. Do you want to comment on that? Let's go right to the theme now, which is the most seriously shameful in you. Let's have a look at that. Let's put that out on the table. What is it?

Anyone willing to say? I'm talking about something specific. No, I'm saying that the most serious thing that creates shame and guilt is a belief in the me, which is erroneous. So any guilt and shame or fear or self-pity or anything like that is all caused by a belief in the self-centre. So... Bob told me, you know, 38... No, 34 years ago, there is no self-centre. And yet the mind, you know, continues to bring up things and sort of, you know, tries to trap you into... Justifying that you actually exist as a separate entity. So it's an amazing thing because you can go along quite well living in the heart and then all of a sudden the head will bring something up.

And the process becomes easier to say, there it is, and be back in the heart. Yes, just... Sorry, you go. Yeah, guilt is quite interesting when you mention it because I do felt it in the last one, two weeks. And that particular story, which is where I came here from the first place, which is two months ago, was that I ended up in that relationship situation where that couple and I was with that... the wife of the husband. And that guilt came lately up again and I recognised it. And I did talk to her about it and it always came up when I, for example, met him in person.

And when she was saying certain things about him that he's okay with it and whatever is between us. And when I see him in person, I can tell he's not. And that's what sort of brings up that guilt where I noticed, ah, that's what I'm carrying around for two months or even... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's... Yeah. So I can't recognise with the blah, blah, blah yet, but I'm not... I know that what came up or what I felt, so... You made it very serious. Yeah. You see how it works? Yeah. Through the seriousness of that, through the untouchable nature of it, the guilt is so extreme, it's so tenable, you can really feel it, can't you?

You feel your guilt, you know, emanating out of you. And you believe that because it is guilty. It is guilt. Guilt is what you put on the head of people. Yeah. It's just shit like everything else. It's just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah, blah. Isn't that amazing? That said, you know, sometimes I really do have a hard time, like, with what, maybe empathy, I think? Yeah. You know, like being empathetic, because I think it's bullshit. Like, you know what I mean? I know someone who's going through a hard time right now, and he's heard all this before, at least indirectly. He doesn't want to.

I'm not mentioning names. Okay. But he's heard these pointers. He seems to resonate enough that he actually asked me to talk to friends of his, but doesn't want to hear it himself. But anyway, he's heard these pointers, and he wants me to sit and listen. Not talk. Don't fix. By saying, well, who's got a problem, or even talk back any non-dualies, right? He just wants to hear me. Like, he wants me to just sit and hold space and listen. That's something I've noticed you're very good at, Bob. You're really good at just listening. You know, I'm sure you know that my story's bullshit every time.

You know? And you're very good at sitting there and holding space. So how do you do it, you know? When you know I'm full of shit, right? So, I mean, because I feel like with this person... That's what love does. Yeah, I'm like, well, I love him. Okay, this person, I love him. It bothers me to, like, because I'm watching him, like, bang his head against the wall. Complain of a headache. And continue to bang his head against the wall. And I want to say, well, just stop banging your head against the wall. Maybe the headache will go away. You know? And I want to say that, but I can't.

Because that would be like non-dualies or fixing things. I'm not being compassionate. So, tell me, oh sage man, how can I be compassionate and more empathetic like you? I asked him, but... Oh, sorry. Just leave it as it is. Leave it as it is. So go ahead and, like, continue to fix if I feel like it and just call it like I see it, is what you're saying. Because that is what it is. That's like... You mightn't be trying to fix it. Leave it as it is, whatever comes up. Exactly what I just thought. Whatever comes up, which is... Yeah, you might be telling him something or...

Of course, recognize that the ego itself that we think we are is trying to defend itself. That's the significant thing. It's not something that says, somebody asked him, what would you do if there was a fight going on down the street? He said, well, I don't know. I might jump in, get into it, I don't know what I'll do. Just leave it as it is and we might. Whatever happens, happens. You don't have to, any particular way, say, this is not dual, not non-dual, or that's not right, you shouldn't do this. Yeah. I think it was a Facebook sharing that I saw once. Where? Did you want to...

Okay. They were talking about how much that lacks compassion. I think it was Jeff Foster, and he was talking about some guru who was with some woman who had... Just dealt with some traumatic blow, like the death of a child or something like that. And he's like, oh, you're just buying into the me. Not that I would do that, like if somebody's kid had died, you know what I mean? But I just felt like, ah, well, now I'm being kind of like that. That's something in my head, but I'm... Yeah, it's not up to you. You gotta choose the level you go in at. Huh?

Yeah. You must choose the level you go in at. You can't choose. And you... Well, the choice is my choice. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure you put it that way. If you want to be non-neuralistic, you know, you get it exactly right. But one at the same time. Yeah. You gotta be perfectly aware of how to react in certain circumstances and not others. You don't want to go blah, blah, blah. The activity that's happened up to tonight. Say that again? The activity that's happened up to tonight with it. Is that all preconceived or what? As it's just going on? That's true. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's just happening. Yeah, well. Left as is. Including resistance to my not being compassionate in listening. Exactly. Yeah. You don't have a story, though. Good. I'm fine. You're a kid. Oh, don't give me this bullshit. Fine, good. I'll give you that. Okay. And the guy who was an asshole and told the woman that, uh, lost her child or whatever the concept is, he didn't choose to be the butt of the crowd? No. to be this way that's how the universe has constructed him by repeated conditioning the whole universe created him to be this way and the whole universe created jeff foster to be the way he is and you and peter and every one of us that's why there is no doership that's why whatever comes up is exactly what the universe brings up even the stories because they are stories and i remember we had this conversation a couple of times that people oh i'm not the doer so i can justify being a psychopath and all the guilt is not real so i will be just raping people along and you know even that the conditioning of the body to be a psychopath is nobody's choice and using the narrative to justify it it's not a choice and using non-duality to justify being psychopathic and experiencing no shame and no guilt because that's really what the psychopaths are this is not a choice and now if they didn't have non-duality they would have used another justification let's say christianity oh there is no god there is no god therefore whatever we're living once there is only this moment the whole lot is a dream experiencing compassion is nonsense nobody's real why be compassionate they're all just pigment of my imagination i can abuse them to all my liking that even that is not a choice even creating the self of a psychopath was the whole universe collaborating and justification of its actions also universe collaborating whatever shows up has its place in the dream in the appearance and as such is to be seen for what it is including my second guessing absolutely and if you're a true psychopath you're not justifying yourself at all oh i don't know what's true psychopath everything is on the spectrum everyone is on the spectrum and I have a couple of comments from Amana.

Silence of I, mind, is best mantra sacredness holiest. Thinking spontaneously can function without I or mind, possible like watch, do not have mind, Ramana Maharshi. And Amana says, you and I, I is universe, does not exist in self, just a reflection or shadow in a lot of places. Peter, you were talking before about shame and guilt and mind and beliefs and it's almost as if you do enshrine certain beliefs and patterns of beliefs in a negative way. It's like they're untouchable and they get reinforced by repetition. So I've, you know, you visit this place where you are X or Y or Z, and then you come back and visit it again.

And it adds another layer of concrete to the belief. And one of the untouchable spots in me is the belief that there's something fundamentally wrong, something fundamentally wrong with me, something fundamentally wrong with life. And therefore I'm doomed in some way that I can't understand. And I'm doomed in some way that I can't understand or comprehend. It's like, this isn't gonna go too well, you know, and that gets revisited. But again, it's almost invisible. It's just a sort of a context to, and then it manifests in, you know, encounters with people that I don't like or physical illnesses or failures in certain ways and stuff.

But the fundamental altar under, you know, this, the altar is there's something wrong fundamentally. Yeah. Thanks for that, Chris. It's fabulous. I think this is the raison d'existence. That's the right French. Of, of, um... The mind. Of the, you know, the individual self. There's always something wrong, something deeply wrong, something deeply, deeply amiss here. I feel that too. I feel that coming up. That, um... Nothing either right or wrong, but thinking makes us happy. Exactly. That's right. Exactly. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So it's only in the moment that, of, uh, that being thought, if you like, that it, uh, exists. It's a way out of it, isn't it?

I'm not sure it's any relevance, but I, I think it's one of Terry's pointers too, is like, is it like all the thoughts were just in Chinese? You know, all the thoughts that come up were actually in Chinese. Uh, so it's the meaning given to it. It's just like, we don't, if it was all Chinese, there'd be no meaning given to it. Like, what's I in Chinese or something? I don't know. Um, yeah, it was just an interesting... I probably shouldn't be talking about Terry's pointers, but that, I just let him, that's one he'd share with me, which, which I like. Yeah, the, oh, it's one of your, Bob's, sorry.

Okay, well, I don't, I'm not, I don't want to step on anyone's non-dual toes, so... But I liked it, as I... It was too much, too much. It was too much. That was very up-to-date. That's really funny. Non-dual toes, that's what it is. All the pointers are just so broadly used by thousands of people in thousands of situations, because they really belong to no one. That's really life. Amarnath says, Action is self-reaction when it has eye and interest in result personal gain. Self is beyond action and reaction, though both are part of the self. Love you all. Thanks and gratitude. Who's that one? That's from Amarnath.

Oh, Amarnath. Thank you, Amarnath. Yeah, thank you, Amarnath, and thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.