The seeming division. Sailor Bob and the nonduality group. 31 Jul 2022

Hi everyone. There's only the one. Where's the every come into it? Right from the start, if you don't already, but there is only that. And you are that without a second. That supreme being, if you like to call it that, or God or whatever other labels has put on it. It's all that one without a second. Though, as you can see by looking around you, it appears as many. But it's never ever or never will be anything other than that non-dual, pure presence, awareness. Timeless, spaceless, bodiless, my-less. Beyond, with the presence of God. Beyond, with the presence of God. Where, when, why or how. That's how it's pointed out.

And that's what needs to be recognised. If it's not recognised, there's a remaining in the conceptual idea of a separate entity, an individual. That's going to remain strong and firm. In the erroneous belief that it is real or that it exists. But the Satyut Ananda, what we're pointing to, the one without a second, is existence. It's consciousness. And it's that loving to be. Or the bliss of being. They tell you that. And the other two factors, Nama-rupa. Nama is the name or the labels we put on it. The mind. And rupa is the body. The seeming solid, substantial pattern through which it's expressing through right now.

But they tell you, Nama-rupa is maya. What they call maya is illusion. So the body-mind, which we've taken to be real, and believes it so, is illusion. So sincerely and earnestly, purely and simply because we've never investigated it, we've taken that to be me. Or I. The separate entity. The person. The individual. And so, that's what's happened. There's a sense of separation. From the absolute. From the reality. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity. Vulnerability. If that sense is there, and you're unsure of what you are, you're taking yourself to be this person, this separate entity. And that divided up into other concepts. It's fearful.

It's anxious. It's unhappy. It's miserable. Conceptual, psychological patterns we put on ourselves. We divide it all up. And now we've got the selection to pick from. I'm Bob. I'm a good fella. I'm not so good. Or I'm fearful. Or I'm anxious. Or I'm jealous. Envy. Envy. Unhappy. Full of pain. Full of fear. All these psychological problems. All words. All words, all labels. And it tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word. That's where they say it begins. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God. That's all that God is, is a word. They put on these things that are happening.

All things were made by him. By the word. And look around you. See, you look out there, you see trees, flowers, grass, sky, space, cars, horses, cats, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, water, cats, whatever. All, every thing has got a word on it, a label on it. All things were made by him, by the word. And there was nothing made without the word. Now that means that every seeming thing, we've got labels or words on it. And what have we done? We take the word to be real. We take it to be some. Thing. Well, it is a thing.

It's the same as a vibrating patina, like every other thing. But it's not even real as the word. Because when you look into those words, what's words? They're sound. What's coming out of this, through this voice box now is sound. Words. Might be gibberish to you. You might not understand it. But it's sound. But it's still sound. What's sound? A vibration. And what's a vibration? It's an activity or a movement. An activity or a movement of energy. And you know that, don't you? With the breathing going in and out. Makes a sound when you breathe it in. And a subtle sound when you're breathing it out.

And then when we put words on it, we're forming. There's nothing else to do, do you see in those words? We've learnt all these words. We've learnt all these things from those words. And then you've learned all these believed in these things. Please speak louder. You know what you can all do. Yeah. But the sounds, as you say, they're not loud enough. So you can't understand the words if the sounds are not loud enough. I'll give you a couple of bird calls, if you like. that absolute. I am the great reality. I am the non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. I am this believed in person, which comes from another language, ancient language, persona, the mask.

And you see a lot of the words, most of the words we've used have come down from, made up from previous other languages to make them into words. But the capacity of reasoning that's suffusing these patterns, we have a capacity that other animals, birds, insects don't have to the extent that we do. Capacity of reasoning and so with that reasoning we add to these words. or take something away from them. But whether we're adding to it or taking away, the main thing is that we believe the Word. I believe the Word is some thing and there are different languages which use different words, which a lot of them have the same meaning as we put on them.

But is the Word the thing? You need to investigate that. We've got all these words, we believe in them, but is the Word the thing? Well, take the word water. Try and drink the word, can you? Swim in the word, wash in the word. You see, you can't do anything with the word, because the word water is not what it is. When you investigate, it can rain water. go and look into it, you'll see it's hydrogen, oxygen coming together. Take the word fire. Fire can be very hot, but can you cook with it? Can you burn yourself with it? You can't. So all these words when you look in them, what's this word I or me?

We immediately say, well it's I is me. We put a different word on it, and what's me? Me is this person, this individual, this separate entity. Break it down a bit more into this human being. Words or labels on this vibrating pattern of pure intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing, not your intellects, but the knowing implies intelligence. And the knowing, not the known or the was known or the will be known, but knowing what is going on right now is the actuality. It's a vibration, a movement that's happening, an activity, because any activity is a movement. And that movement is energy. So the activity of knowing is really intelligence energy.

Which the concept we've put on it, we take it to be me or I that's thinking and has learned this word, this individual person. See a story starts to run around it right away. And all the stories, as they tell us, And they talk about the fairy tales we talk and all the rest of it. They're all conceptual, all beliefs. The word's not the real. And all these stories start with, fairy stories start with once upon a time. Well now, we've got this body-mind idea, this person, that's in time. Well, have a look at time. What's time? Just another word. But is there a past or a future?

Time means past, present and future. Is there a past if you don't think about it? You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. Without a past, without saying there's a past, what's wrong with right now, if I don't think about it? And you can't say it's right, wrong, good or bad. You can't say anything at all about it without a thought. But you'll say it. But you'll say it. You'll say, I was in the past because that's what we've taken the belief in and that's how it seems to be. And I'll say to you, well, try and live yesterday. Simply have a look.

Isn't yesterday what we call past now? Yesterday or ten minutes ago or an hour ago is not what is right now. So we've got this concept that it's past. But go back and try and live yesterday. And realise, what you thought a minute ago, unless you are recalling it, it's gone. And if you can't recall it, it'll never come up again. So you see all these concepts and ideas and images about a past that we're recalling, they're all imaginary. They're all conceptual. You've got no reality to them whatsoever. But can you negate your beingness right here, right now? Because that's what they call the Siddhvaita.

Five factors are existence, consciousness, bliss, nama-rupa. Are you existing right now? And you must realise and know for certain that I am right here, right now. I'm not yesterday looking into here, or now. I'm not tomorrow or this afternoon looking back on now. The actuality is right in this presence, awareness. I am. Same with the future. Is there a future? If I don't think about it. But when we're looking at this future and see what it is, it is anticipation and imagination. Two other words. Which I'm learning. I'm anticipating what I'll do later on in the day. Or imagining it. Or imagining it. I wish this thought was over so I could get down to Sophia and have a feed.

So it's imagination and anticipation, but it's not the actuality. So what does that reckon? Now we're starting to look into this stuff. You see, you are not this vibrating pattern of intelligence energy that you call a body. And innately you know it. Because you say my body. Not his body, or that body. It's my body. My mind. Who is this me or my that's claiming it? Is there such a thing as me? You say my mind. But are you the mind? If you were the mind, wouldn't you say I mind? Not my. You would say I. But you don't. You claim it as mine. Who is this me or my that's claiming it?

Is it this person? Is it this body? Is it this pattern, shape and form? Or is it the voice? Or the sound? Or the word that's coming out? Am I a sound? Or a word? Well you know that sound or word couldn't be there if there wasn't a voice box for it to express through. It wasn't the animating life essence in that body to let the words come through the voice box to make the sound. So how can I be this body? How can I be this mind? But the belief is in it. Why? Because I was told, you little Johnny, when I learnt words, you're a good boy.

Or you're not a good boy. You're this, that and the other. And I never questioned that. Never doubted it. And believed it. And all the other words and things I learnt, the energy of belief went out. The energy of belief went into straight away, without question. So when they talk about belief and tell you it's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason, it means we haven't reasoned it out, we haven't taken it and looked at it. Am I this body? Am I this mind? We've taken it for granted. And we learnt to school, went to school and we learnt more words instead of parents telling you you're not the word.

Because they didn't know themselves. They say you've got to learn these words. You've got to believe this and believe that. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. A belief. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Without positive knowledge or proof. Now if you see that, isn't that a bit unreasonable? You're taking on these concepts and thoughts without questioning them. No wonder we're stuck. No wonder we're open to all the things that we're not. We're open to all the psychological fears, anxieties, stress and guilt, words and concepts and ideas that come up that we've never really investigated and looked into. No wonder we lead miserable, unhappy lives.

With only brief moments when it's pretty good and everything's fallen into place. And there were more of those brief moments before before we got really stuck into all these words and concepts. And when you go back and recognise, it's not a matter of going back at it, but investigating and recognising that the word's not the real and you are not the word and you sit, relax into the silence, the stillness, the pure awareness, you get the taste of the actuality. The pure, ever fresh, non-conceptual, presence, awareness. In which none of these concepts are taking place in. The sensations that come up are not, if you haven't, if you haven't looked through it, you'll still lay them as fear, anger, distress.

But if you investigate them, what's the sensation? Just a movement of energy, an activity. The word's not the real. Then you might understand, when they tell you, that you'll never ever get peace of mind. We've got this thing we call mind. Don't you say, my mind. Who's claiming it? It's belief in me. The belief that I am this separate entity. There have been many autopsies done over the years. Anybody, when they've done the autopsy, have they dug a mind out of it anyway? Everybody found a mind? Just the same token, have they ever found a soul? They've found many things, when they've done the autopsy.

Different nerves and things, brain cells and all of it. They've never found a soul, never found a mind. But here we are claiming it. Claim my body. Well, who's claiming the body? Who's this me, that's got my soul, my mind, my body? Who is it? What's me? Or I? Isn't it the sense of presence? The knowing that you are? You know that there's a knowing that you are right now. And it's happening right in this immediacy. In this presence. Call it an awareness. Awareness of presence. Pre-sense, before the senses start up, is that awareness of being. The consciousness comes up on that, and everything else comes to consciousness.

But is anybody, any pattern that's in this room, that is unaware, right now? You can't negate it. You can't say, no, I'm not aware. You're negating, you know, if you're able to say anything at all, you must be aware, or there must be that life isn't there, to enable you to say it. So you are being. Not was-ing. Not will-be. But what is happening right now. Be-ing. The I-N-G on it. It's something that's going on in this immediacy right now. And you're knowing that. In other words, there's an awareness or knowing of it. That being. And they tell you, awareness of being is bliss. That's a Satyajit Ananda, put in other terms, instead of being, knowing, loving to be.

Awareness of being. You're aware of that beingness. And in the awareness of pure being, without the concepts, you can't say nothing's right with it, or nothing's wrong with it. It's blissful. It's the peace they talk about that passes all understanding. It can't be understood with the concept. You can't grasp it with the word, because the word is not real. So we think we've got to become, get peace of mind. We've got to become this, and we've got to become that. Because of that belief in this individual, this separate entity. Instead of saying first and foremost, that the separate entity, the individual, the person doesn't exist.

It's all the one. And then you don't have to try and find this and that, because there's a knowing and realising, recognising that that is all there is. Isn't that the great mantra? I am that. And don't you know that? Because you know, the sofa you're sitting on is that. The carpet on the floor is that. The space in the room is that. The room itself is that. The trees are, everything is that already. And we don't leave everything as that, the one essence. We put the words or the labels on it, and discriminate it, and divide it up. And they tell you again, with the written amendment, it's indivisible.

It can never be divided. And it's inseparable. Can never be separated. But what we're doing, with these words we've learnt, not seeing the two ends of the one stick, or what, two sides of the one coin, we're separating them. And as Shakespeare told you, we call it good or bad, and he says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And it's only in the thinking which we're dividing it, and separating it. And it's not separate. It's two ends of the one stick, two sides of the one coin. But we've taken all the ones, we've divided it all up, and taken them to be separate.

And we like one part and not the other. Instead of seeing it as all the one, and as Nassar says, love all of it, or none of it, and the rest will be done for you, we take it to be separate. We want one side, we try to get rid, when that one is there we don't like, we try to get rid of it. We resist it, try to get rid of it, throw it out, but resistance is conflict. To try and resist something that's there, from the false belief that we are this entity, it's never going to happen anyway. It can't. But we believe we can get rid of it.

So we try with all our might to resist it and get rid of it. And it's futile because it's not separate. And knowing that, just as left as it is, it'll come around again. Because like the earth and the sun, the earth's rolling around the sun. And when this side is pointing toward the sun, what is it? It's light. And the other end of the earth, which is supposed to be round, is pointing away from it. It's dark. Now it's been seemingly divided. But is it divided? Can you find a point anywhere where the darkness begins, or the light begins? And doesn't it? Isn't it the earth that's rolling around the sun?

The sun's not doing anything about it? It's the earth that's moving, not static, an activity, and the darkness will turn into light, and the light will turn into darkness. So they're not separate. Just the same when these thoughts are not better. The bad thoughts that are there, if we're not fixating on them and keeping near, which we do, they're going to move. But when it's in the bad and it gets, keep it there and keep reinforcing it, it gets worse. And then the greater part of our thinking gets locked up into this division. Instead of leaving it as it is, where it's free to change, now we're locked more into the thoughts and feelings and emotions than what we are into the happiness, the joy and the pleasure.

So it becomes unbalanced with the seeming division. But if you go to the North Pole, you can't realise your next step will be South. And you go to the South Pole, your next step will be North. Where do they meet? You realise they meet at the equator, where the equilibrium is. So it wouldn't be the same with this thinking if you keep it where it's neither good nor bad, pleasant or painful, or what it just as is. When it can shoot into one side or the other but it's not fixated and kept there and treated on, when we try to hang on to the good and the very trying on to it is resistance, or try to get rid of the bad when the very trying to resist it is resistance, well we're out of these resistors.

And when they say let it rest in its uncontrived singularity, they're telling you it's only a singularity. It's only the one essence that's vibrating, patented, salivating, forming, and appearing as everything. And you are that one, not the two, not the other, just one without a second. Well then, it's more likely to come back to its equilibrium where it's neither good or bad. So that needs to be recognised, that you are already that. Another way of looking at it is to see what's all this manifestation appearing? When they say it's a phenomenal manifestation and the definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be, what's it all made up of?

Where does it all appear? How does it appear? It needs to appear in something. Well what are you doing in right now? Where are you? You're sitting in space, aren't you? It's the closest thing to your eye, the closest thing to your eyeballs, the closest thing to encompassing that body in space, there's space all around it and through it, space outside. And try and postulate a centre to space. Can you find a centre to it? Or a beginning to it? You can't. Can you find an end? Try and fly to the end of space if you can. You can't find any end to it. It's got no boundaries on it.

And the other thing is, and this is the important one, can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? What would it be in? Why does it have to be in space? So that space is the basic screen or place or whatever you like to call it where everything appears. Now they say everything. But space is no thing. And what are you, I, the trees, the flowers, the birds, aren't they things? Which we discriminate by putting the labels on. Made them into something. Instead of being things. Space is no thing. It hasn't got any centre. It hasn't got any circumference or boundary.

So it's no thing. You can't give it a shape or form. It's a cognising emptiness. Emptiness suffused with intelligence. Nothing you can postulate can be outside of space. You and I are things. So what would you denounce or define from that? That there's only no thing that ever appeared. I must be the no thing. I must be that space-like awareness suffused with that intelligence energy in which all these things appear and disappear. I can't be anything other than that. Never have been. Never will be. Now, could there be any appearance tool if it didn't seemingly divide and vibrate into patterns, shapes and forms? So the absolute breaks itself down into different patterns, shapes and forms and appears, expresses through them.

Like if we didn't have this body and you are the absolute, what could you say? Can you add anything to the absolute? Or take anything away from it? You can't. To it or take anything away. So see from that, who could ever be superior to you? If there is only the absolute and you're not separate from the absolute, you are the absolute. Who can ever be inferior to you? And what would you want from the other person? If you are the absolute and nothing to be added to, what would you want from them? Nothing. What would they want from you if they were nothing? And see what we've done when we take on this separate entity.

We've got to make sure I get this and if you're going to keep it from me, I'm going to get stuck into you and get to get it from you. Going to like, going to take, going to want more. Rewards, fears, anxieties, all the rest of it. They give you the way out. They're pointing to the way out. And that's all that's happened over the years, they're pointing to it. Those that pointed it, understood it, passed it on to a few and a few that saw it but tried to utilise it and then put all sorts of rules into it and kind of rules and things.

You've got to be this, you've got to do that. And after all, you're a sinner, you're a terrible person, you're in and out of here. But you've got to, before you can understand this or recognise it, you've got to become this. Put all sorts of rules and regulations on you. And we've been practising rules and regulations trying to become, how far have you got? Have a look at it. But you're sensible enough, Selma, to realise that's not good enough. I've looked into it and investigated and it doesn't sit and you go for something else. And it might take you to something like this or what some of the ancients have expressed and realised and you start to resonate and recognise this is the way.

Walk in it, as I tell you in the scripture. Walk in it. Take your way. I am is the way, the truth and the life. The other things they tell you. They give you clues of what to look at. And they tell you that the false cannot stand up to investigation. And if you know, see the false is false, what might you be left with? As everything is in the opposite, you must be left with the reality, the truth. They say know the truth and the truth will set you free. What do you need to become free from? Free from that which is blocking you from knowing it.

And that which is blocking you from stopping you from being free is all these concepts we've taken on board and the words. All the stories we've taken on board. We tell. And label ourselves with stories. Fears, anxiety, stresses, guilt, shame, remorse. Me is the cause of anxiety, fear, distress, the psychological suffering. It's the results of the belief in the separate entity. Because it's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be resentful or guilty or unhappy or jealous. Me is the cause. And the anxiety, the fear, the jealousy are the effects of that cause. Cause and effect. What's cause and effect? Well you look in the scriptures you'll see that cause and effect is what they call karma.

And I've got all this karma waiting on me. It's gonna, if I don't do this or do that, it's gonna get me. And that's another fear that we add to ourselves. Another concept, another guilt trip. We get locked into it and believe in it. When you are the absolute free and you could be happy and we're doing this to ourselves all the time and get the taste that there is something more to it, wouldn't it be sheer stupidity to stay into it? If they point it out a way and point it out a way, wouldn't you want to investigate it and have a look to see if it's true or not, see for yourself?

And they tell you that the false can't stand up to investigation. And it's true. Because I've invested a lot of things, investigated a lot of things to see the truth. I can't believe them today. So I'm not bound into them like I was. Very little of it comes there. And what does can be easily happened, handled, easily recognised and let go of. Because the habit is broken of clinging to things and staying with them. The habit is now to let go. The habit is now to let them go, to let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. See what comes up next. And it's amazing how the change will come about.

And those of you who will recognise it will know it and see it. And those of you who are still there and might have some doubts about it, have another look, question it again and again. Whatever you're drawn to, see where it takes you. Because it's that, and that alone, that takes you anywhere. I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. I can only point and ask you to look to where I'm pointed to to see for yourself. Because there's no I here to do it. And this I here, where the words are coming through, is not what I am. So I'm not speaking to anybody.

I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm not speaking to that so-called persona, which I hope you're not believing in anymore. I'm speaking to that I am. That sense of presence that translates through the mind as the thought I am. Somebody asks you a saying, you know, you say, I am Bill or I am Eric. The sense of presence. You're saying it's put the label on it instead of the absolute. I am the absolute. But you can't go around saying that. I'll have a place for you. A little secluded place. So you've got to stand out against the crowd. Get that confidence. You know the life essence is living and breathing and beating your heart.

And you're knowing it right now because you can't negate your beingness. You call yourself a human being. You believe in God, the Supreme Being. Two different labels. Separation. Take the label Supreme and the word human off. Trot those labels out. That's all they are, a label. Try and separate your beingness. If you can. So get into it. Well, you actually can tell them you are that. Pardon? That I can say that. I just have to make sure I include them in it. What I'm saying is that if I say, well, you know, I am the absolute. I can go out and say it as long as I say you are that too.

There's only that. They just need to be reminded. Otherwise then they think you're special. Yeah, well they think you're up as anything special. What do they do? They lock you up. Well, they'll try. Well, they'll shoot you or assassinate you or something like that. Hang you on the cross. Yeah. Get out the hammer and tax. No, no. You can. You can. You can. I'm going to take a few questions here. One of them is from people who are online with us. And the first one is from David who says, first time here. What is happening? You want to briefly summarize what's happening here? Nothing ever happened.

Nothing has ever happened. Yes. So David, I hope you actually got the answer. From Bob's pointing that is what's happening. The pointing is happening. Pointing beyond the thinking mind, imagination, identification with fictitious selves. Yeah. fictitious self. What moved him to come here. Yeah, what made him come here. Investigating is happening. And actually... That's Clive, it's not the down the road guy. No, no, it's someone who's first time here. And Amanath answered that question, what's happening here, nothing and everything. And then Ben says it appears that capital letters doesn't want to recognize itself as that, but as some individual self. That's what the human psyche does.

It's a device. Why would that create a mind that is ignorant of being that? Could it be just for the drama of it all? Yeah, the why question always always invites a story and we can say quite a few different stories why it happens the way it happens. It needs to express itself in its absoluteness. It can't do anything. It forms different pattern shapes and forms which are that also and expresses through those patterns as life. Each expression is a unique expression. It is not to say need in the way we are thinking about being needy. It is just what's happening described in a language.

The other thing about the human psyche that they were mentioning, that is part of also the problem is the differentiating with human. Put the labels on things, yeah. So if you don't even see yourself as human, I just... You don't put any word on it. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Can't say its good, bad, pleasant without a thought. So you bring a thought, what do you do? You discriminate it with the word. So it just is. If you can't say it's good and bad, everything is and that is what it is. This is what Byron has to say. Optical illusion reveal how rapidly perceptions can change.

This change is not a choice but the result of change in perspective. Our view of the world, life, and the world. and ourselves is subject to our needs, wishes, wants and desires. We push the river and don't even know it. Sometimes desires and fears are absent not because they were given up but because they have lost their hold. We take ourselves to be limited but we are not. Stay attentive, be earnest about it. Be aware of your feelings right here and now. Take time, give space to your experiences. Reality will find you. That's Byron and there is a link to a website, I think this is some sort of a promotion of event or something, of his event.

Aminat says we are always with the Master as capital I, ever aware making drama of unaware, small I, how funny is the drama, with capital L. Word, master, and disciple are notions, cannot be separated. And Amanaz also says, read the reader. Storyteller and character's inside story are completely false, including the reader too. Becoming a small I which can't become, I wants to become, capital I. Cold habit both are false, no relation at all between small I and big I. Brin says, thank you, and Adrian says, love you guys, beautiful transmission, and Biden says, are you not concerned about COVID? Ma? Are you concerned about COVID and masks?

No, it happens or it doesn't. The answer. I'm concerned with it. Wasting a lot of time and energy. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Yeah, that's a good answer. I mean, if you are moved to do something, you're moving to do something. You don't really have to make a big story about it and justify your actions. You just follow the impulse and that's... That's acting without the actor or without the story at least behind it. Take no thought for your life. As Christ told you, watch as you'll eat, watch as you'll drink, watch as you'll wear. Think of the birds in the sky.

They don't gather into barns or reap and sow crops. The lilies in the field, even Solomon in his glory. They're not coloured like one of these things. Which of you, by taking thought, can add one cube into your stature? Try and make yourself an inch. I'm an inch taller by thinking about it. Byron is asking, what about the others? What about the others? What others? Yeah, what others? Amonath says, I is the mask. And it is about the masks. What about the others? Well, it's one without a second. Non duality. What others? What others? The so-called others. Who are saying, I am the mask. I am the same.

I am the person. I am the other. The other. Me. You must be thinking about something separate from here and apart from it. Something other than you. Yes. So that is Catherine, so grateful Bob and Kat, once again, for reminding us of our true and undivided nature. Love to all. From James and Catherine. Come on, anyone? Now I'm just thinking about the others. That's kind of the, I think, the point of the whole discussion. I can't tell you when they rest. And I can't remember how long. is that we've been buying into this idea of a me and another. And that's the whole problem, isn't it?

I mean, yeah, I don't think that they're understanding. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say that the others are beautiful, they're incredible, they're wonderful, they're all amazing. They're that. Yeah, exactly. But they are that. Everything is that. All the incredible diversity and abundance and diversity of this human and animal ecosystem we call Earth is incredibly beautiful. But in the recognition of that beauty, it is the recognition of the whole, is it not? The whole, the one that's bleeding through everything. So we need not worry. Can you hear that? No. You got a reply to that, Gilbert? No. You're just the same level as Gilbert.

Yeah, so if everything is that, then there's no second. There's one without a second. There you go. Put the mic closer to you. It does. It doesn't matter for Bob. This mic is for people who listen to us online. I know. So it's one without a second, so there is no second. And this idea of a self-centre is actually a fiction, but that has to be seen to be so. But it's that belief in being a self-centre that appears to divide everything, and it divides it with words. And labels and things. And the belief in the self-centre depends on, even though it's a fiction, in that seeming limitation, it depends upon the constructs of ideas and words and beliefs in that self-centre to keep it sort of reoccurring.

And even though it... it is not real, it keeps appearing. So it's the appearance. And the appearance is Maya. So the appearance is not real. So the manifested... the manifestation is appearance. And that which is unmanifested is reality. So the reality never appears. That's why you can't find a thing called the self. Or even a me. If you go looking for the me, you can't find anything except stories and memories. And the memory is not very reliable. Memory is the past. And this idea of me depends on descriptions and things and what other people think of me and all this sort of stuff. So... So...

So it's imperative, in the scheme of things, to investigate this me and see if I can really find it. And how many times do I have to investigate? If I can't find it, surely that indicates that it's not real. Yeah, so this separation, this belief in being separate, this separation of the mind and the mind itself, is the cause of psychological suffering. Now, psychological suffering is unnecessary. And I don't know anyone, anywhere, that would argue in favour of psychological suffering. Maybe some idiot somewhere would try. But it's unnecessary. So... And Bob points out that it's intelligence energy. So intelligence energy is doing the whole thing.

It's expressing itself, you could say, as the oneness, and as everything else that appears to be... Even the limitations is the intelligence energy, appearing as patterns. So the limitations of... The limitation of believing in a self-centre that has to try and become enlightened or free itself from its bondage or whatever is part of the illusion, because it's not. Because it doesn't exist in the first place, how can it get free? You can't get out of a prison that you're not actually in. You might have a blueprint of the prison, and you might be studying it and digging tunnels like... I love that story of... What was his name?

Count of Monte Cristo. He was in this prison, and he dug his way out through one of the cells, only to find himself in another cell. And eventually he waited for the guy to die, and then he swapped himself. They came in and wrapped his body up, and they were going to throw it in the sea. And while they went away, he changed the body, put the body back in his cell, covered up the stonework and wrapped himself up, and he got thrown into the ocean and got free that way. Well, that's pretty complicated. But it gives me some hope, doesn't it? If I can just arrange everything, I'll get free.

But the self-centred is a fiction. So it appears to be all sorts of incredible limitations, but if you investigate those limitations, they are a fiction, because it's all about a fictional character. So, you know, everything is that. I am that. And it appears as all the manifestation, as the beautiful things in nature, like you study insects and birds and things, and it's wonderful. But they haven't got psychological suffering. Birds and animals, you know, I was watching this cat earlier, and, you know, there's no psychological suffering there that you can project onto it. It's just being, and getting comfortable, moving position and everything. There's consciousness. There's the sense of being a person without that burden of so-called personhood.

Yeah, so I can go on for ages, but I won't. Just go on. Yes, please. Please go on. There is no more. At the beginning of Bob's first book, the very first line, I think it is, there is no more God than there is right now. And I thought that when I was typing it out, I thought, it's a very curious thing, you know. But there's no more anything. You know, we want more. And we don't want less. We want more. We want to add to that idea of me to make it safe and secure. But it's a fiction, so. When you really get an inkling or a really good taste that it's not real, it's like a burden falls away.

And I mean, drama still happens. You still have all sorts of dramas going. But, yeah, psychological suffering. You can have it. I don't want it. They don't affect you the same way they used to. They just don't affect you. They'll still . Yeah, but there's no me there that is affected or unaffected. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, in the scheme of things, there's all sorts of traps in belief. You know, belief is never the thing. And, you know, like, you think you've got free from one belief and then another belief gets you. But the actual, recognising that belief is never true, that's significant. When you realise that belief is not your friend.

Belief is never true. It's serviceable in life, but it's based on, well, it's the illusion, really, belief. Yeah. So often we have beliefs we don't even, we're not even aware of. Well, that's part of the story, you know. But, and that's the net, that's intelligence energy. Because intelligence energy is doing the whole thing. So it's seemingly creating all this web of self-deception and connections and karma and if I do this and if I do that. But it's an illusion. Because what's my perspective? If my perspective is me and I need to do something to get some advantage, blah, blah, blah, or avoid something, that's the illusion of me.

Whereas if you just let things be as they are, things will let you be as you are. But we're always trying to get more or change things or have an effect. Like Dean, for instance. Just joking. And the cat did suffer a little bit, by the way, when I stopped patting it. I could see the deep cycle. When you said, I think something did it. There's a metaphor that I heard once that I really liked. It's in construction. So you know when they take a building like in Vegas and they want to get rid of it to build a new one or whatever. But what holds these buildings together is a beam.

And it actually looks like a capital, a capital I. It's called the I-beam. Yeah, so what they do when they want to just demolish the whole thing is they just put some dynamite on that I. Blow it up and then the whole thing implodes with the seeing that the, well, what happens to the fear of the snake when you see that it's always been a rope. Yeah. Yeah. So, that was a fascinating passage in the New Testament that says something about cast the beam from thine own eye. Which kind of has different meanings. If it, you know, the I think the, there's some interpretations that say that you've got a splinter in your eye which is obscuring your vision.

So you take, you cast the, the beam from your own eye. But the other meaning that I tuned into was that the light of consciousness is like a beam if you cast it from your own eye. In other words, seeing, not through concepts, but just seeing what is, it's like that casting of the light of consciousness onto what is, without any psychological overtones, what it's worth. Maybe. Maybe not. Could be bullshit. I've got a couple of comments from people who are online with us. So, Byron says, hospitals are full of others. And Amarna says, me and others are the mask. Me and others are the mask.

And, yeah, this is all about the masks and about the others. And as much as everyone is moved to do whatever they are moved to do, everybody is also somehow subject to all sorts of influences. The whole world influences everyone. So your community, your parents, your television, your news or your conspiracy news or whatever it is influences. And that movement, whether to wear the mask or whether to impose wearing the mask on others or whatever, is just a sum of the influences. And the... The possibility is there to see that even in that activity there is no doer. It's just the... It's just the scrambled conditioning that results in that particular behavior or that particular movement.

So to bring the position of this is my belief and because it is my, therefore it is correct and therefore I have to impose it on others is actually not necessary, simply. It is really a recognition. That life will be unfolding as it does. Everyone will be acting out and expressing as they do, just like every bird will have its own song. And in the ideal world, you might have the same conditioning like the, you know, the 1984 by Orwell. Or new wonderful... Or the Huxleys. A great new world where everyone is exposed to the same sort of thinking and they... Unison, that's a dream of a politician but that's not how the diversity and creativity of life expresses.

So nobody is right or wrong about anything. They are just different conditioning resulting as different impulses to different behaviors happening. So that's about the masks. And Tania says, Seems there has been taking an anxious energy to be me to be evidence that belief, belief in me is here, but it is just a sensation, vibration of energy. Not sure why seeking is still appearing. Yeah, even notice the labeling that vibration of energy as anxious or as seeking. See that this is just another way it's life plays out. Amarna says, I'm the body mind. I am the body mind is the disease. Who am I? Is the medicine.

But surprisingly, patient and doctor are missing and a lot of icons. And Kiran says, Hey, Bob and Kat, I wonder what your opinions are on spiritual seeking in combination with traditional counseling, etc. For mental health and whether you think they can work well together to work through emotional barriers that may be holding one back. Do you have an opinion about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, they work or they don't. You know, they might. Yeah. Just see what life moves you to do. Don't take any credit for any of the movements. Spiritual seeking and mental health. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, if you, if you, let's say a spiritual seeker and you are a war veteran and you have a severe trauma, can you use the therapy to, to, to, to train your mind to deal with trauma?

Perhaps that'll help. But I'm like, I'm trying to understand what they mean by spiritual seeking. You know, I, I, I've, I've had my own experience of mental health issues where just inquiring, if you want to call that seeking, I don't know if that's seeking, but it is looking right when I inquire and I go, well, who's, who's, who, who is giving a crap? And is it more special? See, I think it was this, this belief in specialness that, that when I was, there was a believing that there was someone here who was special. So more than or less than, but often more than. And that, that, that would get the, the, the me into trouble as Bob was talking about hospitalizations and, and what seemed to help, at least with this mental health was when there was a looking, oh, you're special, right?

All right. Ms. Special lady, queen of the universe. Let's take a look. If you're not this body, and if you're not these thoughts, these emotions, these behaviors, let's look, let's seek. The seeking isn't looking, it's kind of the same thing, I don't know. But can you find the one who's special? And when there was that looking, then I couldn't find it, no. And then poof, with the idea of specialness, it just. They divide spirit and matter up, like they divide everything else. Spirit. There's essence. Can't say it, you know. Matter is solidified spirit. And just as much as there is a space for training a matter, like doing 100 squats per day, like Bob does, there's also a space to training the mind.

There's nothing wrong if life expresses of the mind's training or the body training or any other training, you know. The eagle flies better and better day by day. Or learn to, you know, sing their song. So there is a space for it. There's a space for everything. And Kiran, if you are moved to explore all those things, just don't, you know, like bringing, taking up the position that this is wrong or this is unnecessary or this should or it shouldn't happen, is in itself the opinion. Whose opinion? Who says that? It's just, yeah, see how life moves you. And. Nothing's wrong with it. Nothing wrong with anything.

It's just what's happening. Right or wrong. Like Shakespeare, Bob quoting Shakespeare. Nothing good about it. Nothing good about it. Nothing good about it. Nothing good about what thinking makes itself. It may be beneficial, that I said, to ask why. Why, what are you going to get out of it? What's, are you doing this because you think you'll be enlightened? Yeah, that's what therapy's usually ask. The question why? Oh, yeah, it gets in the head. So probably not a good question. But. It may, who knows? There is nothing good about it. Even that, even the resolving story might have its play. Well, and you can fiddle with the absolute as much as you want.

I, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Well, you can fiddle with the absolute as much as you like. It's still going to, ah. It's still, still going to be absolute. Yeah. You can dance, you can sing, you can write the novels, whatever, whatever life moves that body, it's just, you recognize you are beyond the body and its behaviors and its thinking. And that is the freedom from psychological suffering. And now this is, Amarna says, it is just energy that can satiate you.

So. It's just energy. It can't be named as anxious or cool. Label is fun. Do not take seriously. And again, lots of icons. And Biden says, you can find the mystery by watching Bob Scott, the wisest person in the room. Exactly. Yeah, but if he's not a person, then I don't know if he's... Amina says, dream mind can be thought or taught or learned or created or destroyed. And Biden says, that cat does not have its sneakers in a knot. She's not confused with all that theory, just in touch with its own being right here and now. Being human words is... There is a need.

Behind human words, there is a need. What is it? What is the need behind human words? It's an invitation for other story and other labeling and naming. I mean, that's one of... In Bob's first book, there's a little passage there, maybe several times throughout the book, is watch the mind and see how it operates. And it's a very simple sentence. And it's incredibly potent because if you watch the mind, all of these questions that you have kind of get resolved because it's all there. By watching the mind and witnessing the mind, one sees all sorts of things going on and things resolve themselves naturally. It's when we're not watching the so-called, not watching the mind, or the imagined entity is entering into all sorts of different dramas.

But if there's a witnessing of it, it doesn't behave in the same way. It changes. And so the more you watch the mind, the more it is recognized, the more you can see it. And it's a beautiful little instruction. Anyone can do it. It doesn't cost you anything. Just watch the mind. Take an interest. Psychological suffering is unnecessary. And if you watch the mind, you'll see how it operates and why it creates all these dramas. And memory is there so that we stop making the same stupid mistakes over and over again. Beautiful. Absolutely. Do you want to say something, Jibir? Could, but I'm terrible. Okay, I have some more comments from online people.

Amarna says, find the missing notion of self. I lost myself in finding. And about Tiffany smiling face or something. And Hey You says, Hi Bob, I'm just thinking, do... Do you think someone has to see it first that one is in bondage? Cause when you say, or the mind says, I am that, or I am free, doesn't make sense because it's only a word. I don't quite understand the question, but I think it is whether the imagined self has to see itself in bondage. Imagine self is blind. The bondage. Yeah, it's imagined self doesn't have any power whatsoever. The bondage is seen from beyond the bondage, not by the I.

My understanding of what they were saying was that they were asking, and I could be wrong, it happens once a year, but today could be the day. My understanding, and maybe they can correct that, was that they were saying that you just don't just say I am that, you have to investigate first, right? Before you, otherwise you're just blabbing words. And that was my understanding. Okay, okay. But I could be wrong. Yeah, I wouldn't imagine that anybody would conceive that saying is enough. Calling it imagined mind, if they know it's an image, you don't get any notice of it. Yeah. I think it's necessary to make a distinction between mind and thinking about things, and actual discovery from a first principle point of view, direct discovery, direct knowledge of things.

When one investigates, you discover what direct knowledge is. Things become vibrant, or, you know, that's the word used, you resonate with the thing that you're looking at. It's like there is a difference between the two, as a physical experience as well. But it's a quietening of the mind, and just a halo of surety, and something that comes around it for want of a better way to describe it, you know. It's like when you recognize that presence is the only time there is. You know, there is really the only time there is. And there's an ah. Or if you direct your mind to the space between thoughts, there's a kind of ah, resonant event that occurs, right?

And there's a difference between that and what we would call normal mind, which is the mind of, you know, there's always a constant lack, trying to fulfill a lack. And I think we can rely on that quite considerably. We tend to exercise that muscle more. Like when you investigate something for the truth of it, when you ask the question, what's going on here? Can I really undo it? Am I really real? Am I really a me? And so on. Is there really a future? Is there really a past? Is there really a future? Is this the only time there is? All these sorts of things.

It's self-evident and part of the same answer to the same question. But what do you think, Bob? Do you agree with that? I couldn't hear you. I can't hear you either. Oh, you can't hear me? Yeah, you speak very long. All right. I won't repeat myself. Did you hear a little bit? I've lost the gist of it. I was talking about image. I was talking about real knowledge versus, or direct knowledge versus mind investigation, in the investigation of things. That's all. Yeah. But images, images like reflections are nothing at all. What we believe in, or what we're concerned about, the imagined mind. It's only a conceptual idea.

Right. The imagined mind is the arbiter of lack. So if, what is, what is, why, why would they do it? Like, why would we take the imagined more than the real? All people. Or I am. Yeah, I know, I know. Because sometimes, I mean, I understand that. But what, what is it, what is it doing that it's taking it more important, the image, than what is real? Or why is the concept taking more important than the real? I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, The whole idea of the, Entire body mind.

And yeah, That's what, Right. Yes. But you can't deny it. You can't negate it. You can put labels on it, but the labels are not it. The labels slide off. It's like a bird flying through the sky. It doesn't leave a trace of dots. It's just flying through the sky. It doesn't touch the sky. It doesn't affect the sky. The sky has no beginning, no end. Does that make any sense? So what are you without words? It's confronting to look at, but what feels uncomfortable about that? It's worth investigating. The mind's looking for words, you know, it wants to protect itself. And when everyone has time and it's grabbing for the concept, it's trying to achieve the why again.

It's more like an unlearning. We're always trying to learn new things and get more and add to that self-centre to protect it. And so the instinct of survival kicks in. It borrows that survival instinct. It wants to survive, but it's bullshit. And it gets us into all sorts of trouble. And what would be more sensible to do than to investigate that belief in me and see that it's not real? Once you see it's not real, you can never believe in it again. You can't. Even if you want to, you can't. It's like Santa Claus. When a kid discovers that Santa Claus is not real, it doesn't run around and spoil it for all the other kids.

Ah, Santa Claus is not real. Eee. There's an intelligence there that, oh, yeah, they can believe in it. I've seen it's not real. But, you know, you don't get to be in your 30s and say, well, I want to believe in Santa again. You can't believe in it. So the self-centre is seemingly believed in, but who is it that believes in it? So you watch the mind and see how it operates and it reveals itself. It's not a drama. It can appear to be defending itself. It, you know, like for some, it's like it's the hardest thing ever to see through that me. And for others, it just falls away or whatever.

But who cares? So for me, it's like this. There's thoughts coming up, then whatever the concept is coming up. And then I... Who is that me? When you say it's for me... Ah, yes. I mean, it's happening. And then I'm thinking, oh, hang on a minute. It's a thought. It's bullshit. That's okay. And then a thought comes back. So that's why I was wondering what is doing it that is coming back the thought. As Bob says, the intelligence energy is doing the whole thing. So trace it back to that and all of those problems dissolve. Oh, yeah. Okay. I think Bob's fourth book is called One Essence, Appearing and Expressing as Everything.

So that says it all. But whatever is happening, it's the one essence. It's expressing as everything. It's not a problem. What am I supposed to... One without a second. There's no repetition. Bob's... I think it's the fourth book. It's called One Essence, Appearing and Expressing as Everything. So that little sentence... Good books always have the title of the book says it all, more or less. And you don't need to read the book like that one. What's that one? The dog Chen one. Seeing with Naked Awareness. Self-liberation through seeing with naked awareness. That title says it all. But, of course, you read the book because the essence is in there.

But, you know, like Bob's first book is What's Wrong with Right Now? And you just think about it. That's it. You don't have to read the book if you get it. But there's no one to get it. So... I think one of the clearest pointers in Bob's books, and they're all clear, is watch the mind and see how it operates. Anybody... It's, like, beautiful. Anyone can do it. And it's not difficult. You know, you can watch the mind and see what's going on. If you have a genuine wish to investigate and risk finding out that you're not who you think you are, you can watch the mind and see what's going on.

Because no one is ever what they think they are. Ultimately, you don't... You're just not going to give a fuck. Really. You play within the confines of the mind. You'll play within the confines of the mind. You'll play within the confines of the mind. And then one day you'll wake up and you say, I don't give a shit anymore. Really? It's true. Yeah. That could be the next book I've done. Yeah, shit. That should be your book. And find that you're just in love. Because everything is just going your way, really. Always was. So, what we're all attempting to do here is to solve the problem of the mind within the mind.

We can't do that. But we're edging somewhere else. And the only way you can do that is... The appropriate response to that really is silence. But not silence in terms of... I don't mean silence by shutting your mouth, but I do mean that as well, emphatically. But I don't mean silence by shutting your mouth, but I do mean that as well, emphatically. But I don't mean silence by shutting your mouth, but I do mean that as well, emphatically. So, I mean the silence that calls for your total attention, in a sense, for a moment. So, I mean the silence that calls for your total attention, in a sense, for a moment.

Like when you give total attention to something new. Like when you give total attention to something new. That's an approaching thing as a child, totally and accidentally. So, if you don't have it... There's no concept in the... There's no answer in the mind, right? You got that yet? There's no answer in the mind. So don't come again with the mind. and challenging thing but that's where you're at you're out there right now so give it a go see what happens gives you the last verse words the way is beyond language there's no yesterday no tomorrow and no today without the words what can you say I have a couple more comments from people online words but there you go Tanya says belief is never true Wow thanks Gilbert noticing that now words worth saying Amarna says no need to think thinking is both creation and dissolution is not needed and Padma there is no greater mystery than this that we keep seeking reality though in fact we are reality we think that there is something hiding reality and that this must be destroyed before reality is gained how ridiculous and they will dawn where you will laugh at all your past efforts that which will be the day you laugh is also here and now that's what I'm saying it's from Anna reamana maharjee ah ha ha and John says it is suffering that leads to freedom the paradox of suffering is that you find yourself in prison whose most painful bars are made of only thoughts beautiful Amarna says there is only wisdom no wise men Hey Yu says hey Bob when you say that word is not the real and we take it with a jab that's a great quote take it for the real, keeps me really hard.

Somehow there was a pause in the thinking process. Brilliant. And Kiran says, seeking, ex-going to meetings, inquiry, etc. That's when Julia was talking what was seeking. And she says, yes, counseling for trauma and pattern breaking, not about being special, more like cognitive behavioral therapy. And Byron says, hey, white beard, what about watching my feelings, not my mind? Suit yourself, yes, whatever. The feelings are not disconnected from the mind. And Amanath, watching and witnessing also part of mind and operation. And Dave says, what happens to the self when you are under general anesthetic? It is just the deep, dreamless sleep. It is just like, yes. And Heyu says, thanks, Kat, that was perfect, love.

Donna says, oh, Donna says, hello, lovely, loveless. Thank you, hi, Donna. And Amanath says, both ignorance and knowledge are causeless to whom they are is missing. And Byron says, young guy with the glasses, very good question. What we call, here in this meeting, is the unreal is in fact the real. But we try to get away from our really real needs and desires. We imagine some deeper reality and in the meantime, lose sight of this reality without all that theory. Watch the cat. Watch the cat. Thank you, Byron. What do you think cat would say about its needs? Or perhaps life would cut it too.

It would. Without much theory. Cat. Because, yeah, well, everyone read some or the other theory about naming, labeling all the needs and going to the mind and naming them and then looking for the solutions. While life is doing it without all that concepts. Life is beating your heart. It's beating cat's heart. So, yes, I guess this is your, perhaps, therapy or your contribution to the world and that is absolutely wonderful. That's what life expresses through, and I'm happy to share it with you. But there's no need to actually educate everyone else about it because life is taking care of all that. We're not ignoring reality by not addressing labeling with words the needs that we would imagine they are.

And again, it's not discarding that way of approaching reality. That's your song. And Ram says, hey, Bob, what was the loud siren earlier on? Did you call the advisor police? And there is thank you from and there is says, love the questionnaire, that's the answer. And that's it for the online contribution. And thank you, everyone, for contributing and giving different perspectives. Yeah, thanks. Well, now, so we just wrap it up and go? Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Okay. So, thank you, everyone. Thank you.