Sailor Bob and Kat - nonduality. Misidentification of the self. 26/06/2022

On morning everyone. As you know it's all the same old, same old, same old. It might keep hearing it, it might wear the so-called ego to become eroded or a bit thinner and bang, see it's false, it never existed. It goes away. That's what we try and point to, what they call non-duality in some of the scriptures. Non-duality means not two, one without a second, and that means in the whole manifestation it's not two, it's all the one essence. And so I can't, I can't teach you anything, I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look where I'm pointing to and see for yourself.

Because no matter what you understood or believed in the so-called church, that somebody's going to give it to you, some higher power or be benevolent or whatever and you'll get something. You move the way you want. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. That body-mind identify that you identify yourself with, I'm not speaking to that. Because that's all appearance. It seems real, doesn't it? Extra. Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community Subtitles by the Amara.org community entity, the individual.

It's just another word, another label, which we've taken to be this person. And the word person comes from an ancient language, Latin persona, the mask, or a conceptual image we put upon ourselves. And this body, mind, and all the pattern shapes and forms around you, we take to be just that, separate and apart. Because of the words we picked up, instead of seeing it as absolute. Now if absolute is all there is, what can be added to it? Nothing at all. If it had anything to it, it wouldn't have been absolute, would it? Can you take anything away from it? You can't, or it wouldn't be absolute.

So that means that everything is as it is appearing to be other than what it is. All appearance. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. The whole manifestation is phenomenal. And the definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be. It seems phenomenal. It seems phenomenal. It seems phenomenal. It seems phenomenal. It seems phenomenal. It seems real. Looks real. Taste it, touch it. And it is real in its essence. But not as it appears. Some of you do know it, but those that don't know it, whether you know it or not, you are that already. And have always and ever been that. No matter what patterns, shapes, or forms appear or disappear, thoughts, feelings, or emotions, or whatever's going on, it's going to be there.

And it's going to be there. And it's going to be there. Young smell, while sick, sickness, or könntiness, or illness, or analyzed so called energy, it can be there too. It can be there. It can be there. It's going to be there. It's going to be there. But not as it was that they're going to be there. Not early, that things are going to be there. As long as the private parte is present. And if it's present, then it's a real groundwork as to the many subliminal things around it, these uncovering and幾ville and this Св 1957 energy goal. 7lef! And the present is spontaneously functioning in this as is right now.

Try and grasp that and hang on to it. And you can't because it's spontaneous, it's constantly changing. But we take this concept of time to have duration, a beginning and an end. But if it's spontaneous, it's just like a throb or a pulse. Soma, Vril, all different labels they put on it. People have tried to grasp it and understand it. Meaning just a spontaneous, ever fresh presence, awareness. They use the term awareness. And people look for something they call awareness. But nobody can describe it. All you know is that you are not unaware right now. Isn't that a fact? You see? And it's the awareness of which is the life.

An expression of everything. Everything forms from that, what we call pure being. Awareness of being is what they call the bliss. Awareness of being is bliss. Or Sat Chit Ananda's existence, consciousness, bliss, Nama Rupa. People get the concept or an idea of what this bliss is. It's some great highly enlightened state. It's nothing but simple loving to be. Knowing that you are and being warm and affectionate. Let that beingness be as it is. And it's... In its reality, it is like the sky clearer of clouds. There's more clarity and the radiance of the sun shining warms it all up. And you could call that warmness if you have an affectionate awareness.

A little bit warm towards ourselves. But with the concepts we put on ourselves and the beliefs. We're fearful, anxious, unhappy, depressed, guilty. All sorts of conceptual images come up. And then it's like the sun full of clouds. The sky, I say, full of clouds. Not the sun. Full of clouds. Full of clouds that's obscured the sun. Well isn't that what's going on here? In our heads, in our thinking. The thoughts coming up. We're looking for awareness. We're looking for this. That. And the story goes on to another thought. And another thought. And another feeling. Another expression. All like clouds in the sky. They're obscuring the pure intelligence energy.

The love of being. The knowing that you are. The actuality of what you are. Is obscured by concepts. Thoughts. Where do these thoughts come from? Well, you go back. Nobody can remember your birth. People say I remember your birth. But you had no words at birth. So can you remember or say anything if you haven't got any words? Well it's simple enough. You can't. So they tell them some story again. If you believe that. The fact that you came into existence, as you call birth. It happens about. But you didn't come in. You didn't come in as singing hallelujah. Or shouting words. Or expressing at all.

You had no words. But the life was there. It was functioning. And the socrates tells us there is only life. That's all there is. It's the one essence of pure intelligence energy. It's life. He says there's nobody who lives the life. And we've all caught these bodies and say I am this body. Instead of being no body. No mind. There's nobody who lives a lie. Life lives on life. Life is expressing as life constantly. Out of life, more life comes. And isn't that the fact? Didn't you come from life, the life of your father and your mother? And didn't they come from the life? So, the pattern, shape and form appears, implying that there's an amazing intelligence in this manifestation, what we call intelligence.

An activity of knowing, of being. Intelligence and the activity is energy. It's a vibration, it's a movement. These words are a vibration, sound. This body. In the movements and nerves and sinews and all the things that are going on in the blood. It's all a vibration, sound, movement. Life. He says there's only life. There's nobody who lives a lie. Life is very prolific. It produces more life. In abundance. As I quote that tree out there, with all the pine cones on it. Each pine cone has, thousands, hundreds of seeds in it. And each seed has the potential to cover the earth in trees. You and your partner have the potential to cover the earth in human beings, coming from that.

But you see, it's broken down. Broken down. So, well a lot of it is overcrowding now and overgrowing. But nature takes care of itself. And instead of aligning ourselves with nature, we try to outdo it. And cause ourselves a lot of strife. Well we need to investigate. It needs to be. I say we need to investigate. I don't know whether we do or not. It's up to you whether each one wants to, or is moved to, or whoever it does. But it was moved to do it here, in this pattern. It took me down into the depths. And brought me out of them again. And showed me.

Like I think it was Thomas, a campers was it, in the, I forget the, some of his poems are a mark of it. He says, No greater proof of the power of your love have you shown me than this. That when I had no existence, you brought me into, and, when I had no being, you brought me into existence. And, taught me, to love you. And that's a fact. But when I, didn't, but when I believed I was this person, this human being, there were all sorts of problems. Everything, which is non-dual, to express, must express, dualistically. Could there be day without night? Could there be silence without sound?

Could there be winter without summer? Could there be a past without a future? Could there be high without lower? It can't, it all, needs its opposite to express through. But we separate, the inseparable. And then, that's when the problems start. Because separation becomes isolation. Loneliness. Individuality. But in oneness, in completeness, in absoluteness. And if you recognise that, you are the absolute. Whoever, could be superior to you, if you are the absolute. And whoever, could be inferior to you. Could be anyone inferior, or, superior. And what would you want, of the other person? Instead of realising, he's got more than me, and I want what it, or they're going to take it from me, and I'm fearful of it.

And, I'm afraid of it. And, I'm afraid of it. And, I'm afraid of it. And, I'm afraid of it. And, I'm afraid of it. And, if you know it's absolute, what would you do? Do what was only necessary. Leave it as it is. Knowing as the absolute, the world, is functioning as it should. And living as it should. But in the dividing up of it, all sorts of resistance, conflict, and disease, comes about. Investigate, and, Am I this person? Am I this body? Well, it doesn't take much to look into this with the investigation. Am I this body? Well, what do I say? My body.

And I say my coat, my hat, my car. And I know I'm not the coat, the cat, hat or the car. I'm not this or not that. So could I be my body? Have a look. What's this body made up of? It's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Isn't that so? Take the water out of your body. Don't people die of thirst for the lack of water? Take the fire, the body temperature. Don't people get left out in the cold night, get hypothermia? No heat or fire in the body and die? What was the other thing? Water. I said the water. Take the water.

Get off the earth if you can. Try and live off the earth and what's growing in it. You can't live without that element. Get out of space. Can you postulate or think of anything that can be outside of space? So all those elements can be broken down. Into subatomic particles. Into pure energy. So is there energy where you are right now? Isn't there a breath happening? Which is a movement, an activity, energy. Isn't there a heart beating? Isn't there a thought coming and going? So that life energy is functioning, pattern replacing cells and growing. Keeping that body going. That energy intelligence. And it's doing it in an intelligent way.

Because, you know, a lung cell is not going to replace a liver cell or a head cell. Not going to replace a heart cell. Each cell, and there's thousands of cells dying in that pattern right now, and being replaced. Each cell knows what to do. If it didn't have intelligence, could it know what to do? If it was just a dead image. So that intelligence, if you like to call it, is life. It's love. The love of being. The godliness. Whatever you like to call it. It's the absolute. But we say, we've learnt, your parents told you, you little Johnny. I am little Johnny, or little Billy.

You've taken on that word, and you've taken yourself down from absolute into the personal. And the personal, when it looks out there, when he learns words, and every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been learnt. Have a look at that. You weren't born with any words. So we've learnt words. And taken what the words meant to be real. And so separated ourselves from, with the word, the label, the concept, the idea, or the image. And the Sagara tells you, nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Well there's that word, image, again. Imagination. Break it down to imagine, and then down to image in.

And what's happening in our minds? The thinking. Images are coming in. And being fixated on, and kept there. And believed in. And related to. Stored in. Stories. Activity. And the one is being divided, seemingly divided, and separated into the many. But even though it seems to be, when you look into, and seems it can't possibly be, because it's absolute. Can't possibly be. It's only these concepts we've taken on, which fear as words, sounds, ideas, images. And believing in there's something real. And we add them to this pattern. Me. Bob. The Australian. The good fella. The not so good. They're all images. And they all trouble me.

If I haven't got a good image of what I think I should be. Or don't live up to the Joneses next door. Or people don't like me, or fear me. Or I'm not functioning in the same way as others are. In a separate, different way. A way of experiencing, expressing. We attribute it to the sentient entity. The person. Go ahead. Do it. Carry on. Hasn't it caused you stress, guilt, shame, fear, remorse, unhappiness? If you get a sense, even a sense, that there's a way out. Of all that misery within. And we've got the, we've been told with all these traditions. That you are a sinner.

You know. You're born a sinner. And you need to do this and do that. And again. When we're told we are the person. We've taken belief. An unquestioned belief. And suffer accordingly. And you people here. Are not happy with that. You've come to believe. Or come to see that there's something more to it. Than these beliefs that we've taken on. And I'm not happy with that. I'm not happy with that. I'm not happy with that. That this God's going to wave a magic wand and fix you. When you look in the Bible and see. When it says in the beginning was the word. All began with the word.

With the thoughts. You didn't begin until you had the word. The word was with God. The word was God. That's all there is. God or higher power. It's the label we put on. The absolute. It's a label too. But when we put the words human on, we've isolated ourselves into the separate individual, the person. In the beginning is the word. The word was with God. The word God's God. That's all that God is, is a word. All things were made by him. By the word, isn't that so? Is there a thing in this manifestation you haven't labelled, haven't put a word on? Not realise it's all, no thing, appearing as something.

And that's something that appears. The chair, the table, the space, the trees, the flowers. We put labels on all the things, human bodies. That's a thing also. And there was nothing made, all things were made by him. There was nothing made that was made without the word. So you see how it all comes about. Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve are in paradise, as they say. Garden of Eden, everything's beautiful, lovely. But they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What did they do? They learnt words. The tree of knowledge of good and evil learnt words. And immediately evicted from paradise. In trouble.

All caused by the belief in separation. Getting an idea of what concerns all the fears, anxiety, stress. Wouldn't you want to investigate it? I didn't want to for years. Didn't ever borrow it, would never do anything. But it got that bad, it was forced to do something. Now we don't want that necessarily happen to you. It doesn't. Some people can grasp it when they're young, get onto it. Other persons look at it very easily. And some of us beat the shit out of ourselves for years and years and years. And are lucky if we turn around. But it can turn around. That is the wondrous thing.

And that's the most important thing that I can ever say. It doesn't have to be that way. It can be investigated and seen through. And the recognition of your true nature, of the actual reality that you are. It can be there. And I think it was Ram Dass that says, be what you are. Not what you believe yourself to be. Not what you take yourself to be. But that belief. Have a look at that word. It's a word we picked up along the way. And they've got a definition in the dictionary. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something. In the absence of reason.

Isn't that what we're doing? Something that we're doing. Something that we're doing. Something that we're doing. Something comes up. We're parents told us we were this, that, and the other. We accepted it. Didn't question it. And they hadn't accepted it. And hadn't questioned it. Otherwise it wouldn't be telling us. And it goes on and on. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Now that capacity of reasoning is developed in you. Before you learnt words, was developing. Capacity to able to reason and work things out. In this mind. acceptance of something in the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact. Now you're told, this person, this body, mind, it's alleged so, and we've accepted it without question.

Accepting all these other words, some of the words that you've investigated and seen through, like we believe the earth was flat, and we believe the sea is blue, and all these things, you don't accept them, you question them and investigate them and see through them. Investigate this one, this idea of the person, the separation. See through it, it can be done, except it's an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So we've got it without the positive knowledge about it, the true fact of it, or the proof that it's so. How do you do that? Well, if there's nothing either good or bad, as Shakespeare said, but thinking makes it so.

Thinking is the cause. Have a look into what this thinking is. Thinking is the cause of everything. It's not causing labels and the opposites, the goodness, the badness, the pleasant, the pain. What's the word? They're all words. What's the word? Isn't word a sound? A noise? Aren't these words, aren't they sound? A word? A noise? What's a word or a noise? You hear noises out there? If I could, I used to have a bell in there that could strike, but I can't anymore, and listen to the sound reverberate through the room. A vibration. A sound or a word is a vibration. Listen to that. A vibration.

And that sounds good, because we've got it and it hasn't got any labels, it's not upsetting us in any way. But when we put the word on, it's not upsetting us in any way. But when we put the word on, oh, I'm not good enough or I'm fearful. After all, I'm a human, and this is happening to me. With all these thoughts and words, we cause it. But a sound's a vibration. That's all it is. Music's vibrations. Pluck a guitar string or something like that, the sound of that bell. All vibration. And what's movement? Activity. Isn't it energy? And that's the life. It's the vibrating, the patterning, the functioning.

And life, as it lives on life and out of life, more life comes. But what must you be? If you see that you're not the body, you are not this thing called mind, which is nothing but thought, and thought in all its diverse ways, fear, anger, depression, guilt, unhappiness, shame, love, hate, positive, negative. You're not the word. You're not the label. You are the very life that's all appearing in. All this manifestation, all the pattern, shapes, and forms, which are appearance, they appear. The way they're pattern, shaped, and formed doesn't imply that it's suffused with the innate intelligence. This body with all the organs, nerves, the sinews, and everything else in the brain, the way it's functioning, doesn't imply it's suffused with the innate intelligence.

And isn't that intelligence breathing it? Beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, enable thoughts to arise. But the thought has been picked up and the meaning's put into them. Otherwise it's just sound. Animals have sound. Songs. They can have natural spontaneity, what we call fear, or unhappiness, or depression, and all these labels we put on the meaning into it. They can be the fear in an animal. You'll hear a deer eating away happily, and all of a sudden a lion will appear on it. They're all up. Some of them could have been lying down resting. They'll all be up and off and away into the, wherever they've got to go to escape it.

They'll catch one unfortunate one and kill it. What do the rest do? Do they keep running for the rest of their lives? No. Within a couple hundred yards or so, they'll drop their heads and get back into their natural life. The thing doing is just feeding, getting life, getting in the grass, and settle down again. But they'll be alert. They'll be alert. And what would cause the fear and the trembling? Well, it'll settle down. It'll settle down naturally because that urgent vibration causes this and this. It was useful in its way, but now it's a problem. And with us, all these thoughts and feelings become the problem.

The thing to what they are. Wei Wei Wei told you, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you do, and everything you feel is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. And it's true. Have a look at the self. In those great traditions, they all talk about self, that the self is the absolute, atman. Or brahman, or creature, or fever, whatever. All atman, the one self. They don't talk about a personal self at all. It's only when the humans take it on board and divide it up, we take on this personal self and take it to be what we are. And the Nisargadatta can tell you that.

He's got a chapter in the book. But the person is not reality. The self, this personal self, is not your reality. Your reality is that one absolute that you are. And there is nothing other than that. Life itself. You take the life out of this body, and even before it rots in the truth, and the life. People thought he was talking about himself, but not that. He's talking about that I am. And what is that I am? Nisargadatta tells you too, to stay with the I am-ness. We hear that, we think we've got to repeat I am, I am, stay with it. But the I am-ness, is the sense of presence.

The sense of presence. If somebody asks you who you are, you'll say I am Bill, or I am so and so. As soon as we say that, you put this conceptual image on it, which you believe you are at that time. And you've got to say that to relate to somebody, to express to somebody. You can't go around saying I am the absolute, a little stretch, a little check it for you. A little. Because, why would they do that? Because they all are locked, we're all locked into this belief we're separate. But it's been seen through. Been seen through over the centuries, over the so-called years, which time's a mental concept, it's only now, which appears to be such time.

Been seen through and recognised. And passed on. What needs to happen. That sense of wellbeing. Being well, or loving to be, instead of being unhappy, fearful, anxious, depressed. Wellbeing. Nothing wrong. In the recognition of your true nature. Expresses, like the sun, when there's not clouds obscuring it. Clouds are like the cloud of thoughts which are obscuring, we're hiding our true nature in this body with the cloud of thoughts. And that's what we're doing. Clouds are not obscuring. There is more clarity. And in that clarity, more intelligence. There's a sense of wellbeing. This beingness, nothing wrong. Can't say anything negative about it. Wellbeing. It's fullness. It's clear.

It's there. It's there within each and every one of you. And you have taste of it. You've had taste of it throughout your life. That was good, but then again, you get back into it. You get back into it. It's a fiction. It's the same feeling. It's not the same thing. It's just that you'd wear it on a day with a different else. It's not the same feeling you get if you wear it on a day with someone else. So it's all about the mind. And working it out with the mind. I know better. I know anything. That's a fiction. There's no such thing. And we didn't know anything about it until a few, a century or two ago, I think it was, who was it, formed the ego.

And we believe it's something substantial. But they say, I, since I goes, when he goes. Or he goes, when I go. Speaking in the audience of the panel in the studio, I have been very Lobby King, we've been at the table lately. So I've been at the table with my wife and son, but he's not When there's no I, there's no ego. There's the simple solution. So that's what we point out here anyway. I'm rambling on. And a lot of you have had tastes of it. A lot of you recognise it. And the thing is, it needs to be passed on. It's the only way.

Pass it on. And let somebody who was open to it hear it. No use bottling it up, hanging on to it. It's simple. If you've got a full glass, you can't pour any more into it. You need to empty it out. So if you've got the full glass and you leave it as full, it's going to become stale. It's going to become dead. But pull it out. Pour it out. Pour some out to somebody else and see if it'll refill itself. And then do that. The other one, if they're hearing it, it'll get more and more of it around. The world will become much better than what it is.

And these patterns, each and every one of these patterns, as it came into being, is going to disappear sometime or other. But what is lost? What is lost? We think it's all in the pattern, shape and form. But it's not. It's the very life, itself. And out of life, as we say, life is prolific, more life will come. But it won't be a reincarnation. It'll be a fresher new life. Because you'll never get the same drop of water out of the ocean again. But the same drops will evaporate and form in the clouds again. They won't be at separate drops, won't be separate. And we were never separate either.

So, got any questions? Or any doubts? Or any arguments? Go ahead. Don't forget to speak up. We'll see what people are listening in if they're listening. We have about 20... We have two people who are late. Maybe we could just actually run around and say our names again. So this is E. And this is Emi. And now the question comes. So there's questions from Mirela here. Thank you Bob and Kat and all. Regarding Bob's pointer on the sound of the bell being just a vibration. Would it be fair to say that nothing's happening right now? Just seeing, hearing, no meeting and no email? Yep. It's all absolute.

Yep. It is all there. Hearing, views, or there is a meeting. Okay. John David. Is Bob's book Beyond Words, Beyond Mind still available? I was reading through it tonight and was moved by its direct potency and hope all could enjoy it. Well, we have few copies here on the table, but I don't know if it is online. It is the only book that Bob actually put together himself. But as Bob being Bob super generous, he's given away copyright to somebody else. Not on that, no. Yes. I think Gilbert has copyright for this. And whether he will put it online or not is not up to us.

We can request him when we see him. Maybe we will see him in a couple of months. But thank you John. Thank you for that. I did actually, Gilbert also owns another copyright of Bob's book. And I even prepared it for John online. But... But we will remind him. Thank you. And Keith said, Hi Bob and Cass and all. We can't hear you very well. Well, I guess the headphones may help. Fortunately that's the equipment we have. I mean we tried other options and that's the best we'll get. Anyone would like to ask questions or share? Oh yes, like this one. Thanks Bob for another great spiel.

I feel like this one particularly just really kind of, I don't know, just really held me the whole time. I was just, I felt locked in. And it was beautiful. I just wanted to share, I guess, something I've noticed over the last couple of weeks. I think in a meeting, maybe a Skype meeting a few weeks ago, we were talking about the tendency to look for something amazing. Like, and I think often in these talks, because it's so, it appears so intense to me when I'm sitting in these talks, that when I leave it's like I'm searching for that same intensity. And someone said a few weeks ago, I think it was Adrian, that, you know, it's such a simple, plain, basic experience almost, of awareness.

And since then I've had several times just doing simple chores like following a friend or something like that. Just like folding clothes, washing dishes, brushing my teeth, where there's just this absence and that intent, almost curiosity in what's going on. And it's like I'm just folding clothes, but it's the most, I don't want to look away. There's like nothing more. And I feel like I'm almost over-emphasizing it, like because it's at the same time it's just nothing, like so simple. And there's nothing exciting, nothing like amazing about it. But that in itself is amazing. And it's just been a really, enjoyable is not even the right word.

It just is. Language fails me. But yeah, it's just been just an amazing experience that I've noticed over the last couple of weeks. Once I stopped searching for something amazing, I realized that this simplicity that's going on in my daily life is it. Yeah, I just felt the need to share that. Yeah, so thank you. Thank you. It says it's got you. It'll grow of itself. Grow of itself. And this is absolutely wonderful thing. This is exactly the essence of the message. There is nothing that is not present and shining through right at this moment. Whether you do the dishes or whether you sit on the toilet or you walk or you dance or whatever you do.

And this in itself, when there is no distraction and no attention gone in the dream, is mind-blowing. In that open space, every moment is a miracle. It's ordinary. Bob calls it garden variety, ordinary awareness. Mm-hmm. And it is perfect. Look at the cat. It doesn't look for anything, you know, super or pleasurable. And naturally, the body is drawn to pleasure and to avoidance of pain because that's how the survival instinct is calibrated. But still, they are actually happy to be moment to moment. And that's it. That's it. And you said it beautifully. That's really inspirational for everyone to hear. Really? That's, yeah, that's where the whole open secret is.

It's like there's nothing hidden. There's nothing, it's not far away. Anyone? It was just a thought what I was seeing. I thought if everything would be non-conceptional, then, and that will be everywhere on planet Earth, then it would be looking very different. Because I just realized all these things like the houses and the streets and everything, that's just concept. So I don't know if everyone was just a thought come up, like, oh, if you live not, if like in non-duality, there might not be roads or there might not be cars or, I was just thinking that might look very different, that's all. And I was, oh, that's all concept actually, you know, like the whole society.

Take the label of anything. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? You can't say it's good, you can't say it's bad, pleasant, playful, happy, sad, or anything at all about it. But your heart hasn't stopped beating, and your hair hasn't stopped breathing, your ear and fingernails haven't stopped growing. The life is still pulsing, functioning through the pattern without putting the discriminating labels on it. That's just the one essence, not divided into people, places, things, and all the rest of it. But the people, places, and things are all appearing. Name and form, Nama-rupa, name and form is Maya. We put the name and form on the tree, the flower on each other.

That's illusion. It's all illusion. It's illusion. It's that amazing, pure intelligence energy that can. Pattern, shape, and form expresses everything. And it's constantly, presently, ever spontaneously happening. No thing doing anything at all. Know that for certain. And be. And that's actually a nice contemplation you've done. That, you know, that they're all concepts, and when you take the concepts away, then you kind of left the present moment a little bit, imagining that it would be any different. Because when you look at the way cat is perceiving things, you can't say that it doesn't see the roads. But you can know for sure that it doesn't call them roads.

So it doesn't mean that necessarily the whole world will be suddenly, will be in future suddenly very confusing and alien place where you can't put your step ahead, because they all disappear or get some swirly crazy. No. Because it is already here. It is already present. As you see it now, that is it. It's just that you call it something and you differentiate it. This is a building. This is not a building because it's a road. This is a tree. This is not a tree. This really recognizing that this overlay of the constructed reality is not the truth. It doesn't mean the label will not come up.

But it means that you just overlook the label and you see as Bob was saying, you see whatever arises in that field of consciousness as it. And it isn't differentiated. There is this helpful, very helpful sort of a conceptual explanation in the nine pieces of Zen. Our friend wrote a book where he brings ideas from some of the ox head schools in Zen. There are three realities. The non-dual reality which shows up and shines forth when you stop constructing the reality by labeling things. And when you realize that everything is arising interdependently, meaning it's not separate and not separable. Everything that comes up is made of that vibration of one substance and is influencing everything else.

We separate it by labeling it. So good contemplation. Yes, labels are concepts. Put them aside or ignore them. There will be still the whatever arises in the dream, one appearing as the ten thousand things. But knowing the truth of it, that they are one essence appearing as many, you don't have to really either fear it or judge it or like it or not like it. It's just what it is. Like for those cats that walk around here. It's just what it is. It's very simple. Like Lucky would think. It's too simple. If you try to imagine how it will be, you're already imagining a time.

You're already imagining that something has to change because it's not good enough right now. How do you know it is not good enough? Because you have some idea that it should be different. Non-dual. Something should shift or change. If you recognize that idea as the idea and push it aside, the mind may get quiet right at this moment and you see, oh, there's nothing wrong. Like Bob was saying a moment ago, what's wrong with right now if you don't think? Yeah, we label things. That's why we see them kind of separate. Not a problem if you don't make it a problem. But yeah, you're looking into it.

That's great. Yeah, I understand. For me it was that because to make the road is an idea as well. So if the idea wouldn't be there, then the road wouldn't be there. That's what I was sort of thinking. That it actually comes from concept and thoughts that these things, for example, have been built. That's what I sort of noticed or what I was thinking or it came out. Because if the question, if it would be non-dual, everyone would be non-dual. Yeah. If it was non-duality, would that road been built? That's what I was thinking. If that road would be ever been built or that house or would it even have happened?

Yeah. I don't know. It's all happening spontaneously. The earth's rolling around the sun. Who's rolling it? Tides are coming in and out. Seasons are coming in and out. Who's doing it? What's your next thought going to be? You don't even know, but the thought will come up before you say, I think. Thinking is going. It's all spontaneous, natural functioning. And birds are building nests because that's their nature. Beavers are building dams. We are building roads. The concepts, thoughts, visions, creative imagination are utilized by that intelligence. Like the same intelligence utilized the body of the bird to sing and to fly. The same intelligence utilized human body to create art and roads and infrastructure.

And the idea that if there would be no concept, there would be no creation. We can't really know that for sure because we can see creation in nature without the conceptualizing. But that boils down to what is thought. Because maybe the impulse of action could also be called thought. In this way, the bird has the thought. Oh, spring, time for nesting. There are different definitions of thought. And who knows if that impulse didn't arise. Yeah, well, you see the dead body impulse doesn't arise. Nothing's being done. Did you want to say something? Well, I can just speak from my own experience. That's all I can ever, ever do.

And right here in this present experience of body and breath and heart rate going a little bit faster because of the anticipation of being visible and seen and all of that, which is part of the human experience of this body. Sensation and tension and emotion and movement. My experience over the decades of my own journey into Who Am I? which started at 19 has been kind of this gradual process of arriving as that. Without a problem. And whenever the experience has been one that I haven't wanted, then that's been the place where something, it's really hard to put this into words, but where that friction or the resistance or, the meeting place of like the me with, that this idea of who I am, the idea, the thought, the thinking, the construct of mind, as that has become more and more conscious, more and more seen, then the intelligence itself is already unwinding itself from the falseness of that appearance.

And so, the suffering really, I really understand that now, to be of a psychological nature. It's not, the suffering itself is not the sensation of pain or discomfort in the body. What I've noticed in my experience is that, when the psychological sense of me-ness, which is the separation, when that has a preference for, it shouldn't be this way, then that is where the, I meet that. Like I become that. I become the, it shouldn't be this way. And then that's the source of the actual suffering. And then when it's just sitting there, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.

when it's just seeing, and there's not anyone who can do that, when it's just seeing of its own accord, then there's something that just softens. There's just something like a, almost a, there's the experience of softening, of a little bit more breath, of a little bit more, and then a stabilizing a stabilization seems to take place of the misidentification of the. of the self is seen and therefore it's like this stabilization of the intelligence itself as just that like just that just that and it is so like what you were saying it's so it's so basic it's so ordinary it's so part of what we already know that we jump over it because we're so conditioned to believe ourselves to be something that has to become something good like we have to become a good one we have to um grasp or hold on to or and lately what um what's been uh kind of i've been really curious about um is this something behind that is just there's nothing it's just not anything that you could even put a name to that you could really describe it is just so empty and and so like it's just that it's just completely that and it's not overlaid with any color or shape or form or thought not that there's anything wrong with any of that but it's just it's behind all of that and there's something that like as that is known more and more like in one's own inquiry which that's it like it's just that one's own inquiry then there is no doubt that that becomes very apparent over time i mean it seems seemingly over time which is clearly always this very moment but who cares actually about all of that it's just and the other thing that i could say too is that this ordinary empty sense of just being just the beingness itself that you can't say you can't say anything about actually because it just is that that subtle movement of wanting it to be just a little bit better just even just this much better a little bit sweeter a little bit you know less lonely whatever that that very slight movement away is it's like a hairbreadth with it's so fine that that's like that's the creation of the world it's like in that that hairbreadth width of oh just a little bit more of something because it's not quite it that's that's the appearance of the whole manifestation and it's beautiful i mean it's just there's nothing wrong with that it's it's beautiful it's what we're here for and and how to like i love this because it's like we get to really show up and reflect to each other like there's no competition there's no need to like once upon a time it was something like that for me like it was like oh i've got to show i'm a good one i've got to show i'm a good one and and showing i'm a good one means that i i i know how to speak this i know how to right but it all of that just drops away and it's like wow we get to reflect back to each other like just the truth of our experience and to explore that in like that sincerity of our humanness that you know it's like the cross it's like that meeting place where it all just comes together and it is what it is and there's something just so um revealing in the speaking of that from our own experience regardless of what our experience is that communicates something to each other that we are one and the same like we are one and one and the same so um yeah i had a lot more to say than i thought thank you thank you for that yes i just yeah love listening the way you speak it and yeah and the little subtleties which only come if it's really you know is highlighted by every individual the very very subtle piece of identification with that thought suddenly the space somehow mistaken itself to be that urge it's just so subtle and you said it's so beautiful yeah and we have couple of comments now coming uh JB says it would be nice to have all of Bob's books available maybe Gilbert could upload them for a fee as Bob was saying earlier if you can offer the overflow to others and pass this on what a difference that could make to others who aren't in Australia or personally pick up a book yeah who knows maybe that will happen uh Amarnath says in the absence of a book but he's tired of it and he hasn't read it yet I don't know why but I'm not sure but I'm hoping he will read it and I'm sure he will read it eventually.

a book yeah who knows maybe that will happen Amarnath says in the absence of a book I'll look and see what it is but I don't know what it is. of thoughts and thinker what is there only isness unexplainable like after dream what remains and Keith says it is so simple Rohan even the labeling itself is a manifestation of life absolutely believing the label is the problem it is the life too absolutely with belief it gets tied down into memory and the reality of the seeming object is missed once labeled we are only seeing the label and not the reality the label acts as an overlay like cut says yes see what the concept do the label no label no mind says amanas no explanation or thought no mind and John David says it has been a few years since I first talked to Bob when the pointer started to arise spontaneously and the effort sadhana fell away that piece was found to be more valuable than anything for this my love and gratitude to Bob will always from flow from this heart that's beautiful thank you John and yes that is really about finding falling in love with that piece and finding it more valuable and more attractive than any daydream and any imagination can ever offer because that it is really it is really love for being which is just covered deeply underneath that entertainment so it is really just relaxing out of the mind and finding that love it's not developing it's just developing it's just developing it's not creating it it is already there it's just finding it underneath that distraction that constant extreme pattern that wanting it hot and cold spicy and you know that need for the variety for excitement for pleasure that desensitizing urge to constantly be high and we're missing out that that subtle blissful peaceful existence which is content in itself and it's never far away.

So anyone would like to share? I just want to say that I've had some of those great big explosive experiences, all encompassing spiritual experiences throughout my life at different times, and they're unbelievable, but they all pass. They all go again. And they are remarkable, they show you that there's something hugely different going on in reality, but they never stay. But recently something has stayed. And it is that isness, that spaciousness, which everything appears in. It's like the underlying fabric to everything, and it's an empty fullness. There's a fullness there. Yeah. There's a lack of wanting or needing or anything. And there's also that thing, everything arises and falls in that space.

So nothing is, there's no resistance to anything. There's an observation of it. And so what happens to the whole mind and body in that? Because it's just the beautiful watching of unfolding, or observation. Yeah. And that's the observation of unfoldment of this magnificent play, Leela. And that, it happens in the absolute present moment, and it is full of life. It is abundant with life and consciousness, full awareness. It's just a remarkable thing. I would like to say I'm there all the time, but not all the time. But it's always very close by, very easy to access. So you are there all the time, all the time.

Not there. Never was, not now. Yes. It is always here, really. But, yeah, the challenge of the moments when, and again, we can look at the natural world and see the same pattern, the challenge of losing touch with that piece, because the body gets threatened, you know, like both. Tired. Oh, tired. Yeah, tired, threatened. Half-dead. High hormones, bad weather, anything. When you look, Bob was talking about the deer and the lion. You know, deer enjoying that flow, and then suddenly the body rushes through, running for its life. And sometimes it makes it, and sometimes it doesn't. For the space, it makes no difference. But the body steals the whole of the attention, or maybe almost all of the attention.

And that's the part of the game, too. That's what makes it even more precious, because in that duality of experiencing, only that can be experienced which has the opposite. So the peace can be experienced as the absence of the abstraction, the pleasure as an absence of pain. So that is really perfectly resolved. That's how they say, you know, there can't be a realization of the true nature if you never lost it. You never lost the touch of it. Because cats are not realizing anything, because they take it for granted. They're with it all of their lives. There is no appreciation for it. What has occurred as a result of that is the sensory input.

I was saying that in another meeting this morning. Sensory input is heightened. So the visual field is much more, it's abundant with visual things. It has an abundance. The oral and the taste and everything is like, it's not heightened, but it's all obstructions are removed. Beautiful observation that suddenly life becomes more alive, more vivid. Yeah, because, and calmer too, because suddenly that stream of attention, which is like an energy, is not wasted, doesn't run through the whole of the poor me, obsessing about myself, what's wrong with me, why they don't like me or they judge me or that. That energy is like going through the empty bucket.

So the possibility to see the beauty, the magnificence, the miraculousness of life is deemed down because there is not much light. Light is gone through that self-obsession. But when that one eases up, not only the stress is gone, but also all that attention is available. And suddenly things shine forth. And then of course, then you're tired. And when the body is tired, obviously that some of that attention gets to catering for its needs. And then again the light goes a little bit dimmer. And then because of that we can appreciate being fresh and new next morning. What a play. I think there was a comment here saying, Relax into the love of being.

That's a good pointer, isn't it? Yes, yes, thank you. Relax into being. And Mirela says, I ran across Kat's style of book by accident and love, love, love it. Oh, thank you. It's on Amazon in case others want to check it. It includes so many of Bob's pointers, priceless. Thank you, Mirela. Yes, it is on Amazon and I made it as cheap as it could possibly be. So I get hardly any royalty for this, but it's just to make it available. So the e-book is I think $7 or something cheaper. Sorry. Yes. Yeah, that's it for the comments. And we have another 10 minutes. So would anyone like to...

I guess I just wanted to say something about the body. Yes. And the sense of identification with the body as, or the psychological sense of me, me-ness, that then is attached to the image of who we believe ourselves to be and how when that's seen as being false, it's just a very, like in my experience, it was like a momentary experience. So that's not it. And then I'm just going to stop right there. When I believed myself to be this body, I mean, I don't believe myself not to be the body and I don't believe myself to be the body anymore. It just, there's a body.

So it's not like I have to even define that anymore. But as the intelligence itself rests more on the body, rests more and more in the truth of itself, just as that, then the care and the feeding and the nourishment of the body somehow takes care of itself. And so what I've noticed over time is that there is a greater capacity that develops as the intelligence to respond to and listen to the needs of the body. So the intelligence of the body-mind system as a whole, the functioning of that is quite uninhibited. Like there's less of a static or disturbance as the channels of energy and vitality start to free up through the digestion of maybe intense, met emotion, emotional wounds or whatever it is, not in the thinking of it, but in the actual experience of the shaking that needs to happen when the body's just releasing old trauma, or that that is the free, that's the intelligence at work in the freeing up of the blocked energy in the body so that the intelligence life force can actually then sink into all the kind of hidden cavities and crevices where there was maybe holding and shutdown and the experience of discomfort and all of that.

So, yeah, thank you for that. I love the subtle piece you bring. Another that stood out is realizing that you are not it. It doesn't happen over time. You can't teach yourself that. You can't hypnotize yourself. You can't believe it. You can't fake it till you make it. No. It is the realization, okay, I'm not this. So now, and then you realize there is no one there. So because there is no one there, it doesn't look to embody some other identification. Okay, I thought I was this, body, mind, emotion, whatever. But now there is no I to work with. I want to be anything else.

So as you said, I can't say I'm identifying as a body and I can't say I'm not identifying as a body because there is no urge to identify as anything because that me structure that felt separate eased up and is just presence. Presence doesn't need self-definition. So I can't say I am this or I am not this or I am something else. No. I know that I am. But I'm not completely. I'm not completely interested in what I am because that separate entity who was interested in self-definition eased up, relaxed, dissolved into that consciousness. It's been really fascinating. And part of the journey here is the acceptance of the full repertoire, the full range of emotional experience, emotional experience and sensation and somatic physical experience as being neither good nor bad.

And it's like when that drops away, then there can be the experience of pain and then you might go to the doctor or whatever and get attention for that. But it's like for the longest time, I was so attached because I had so much like, unmet emotional blockage. I was so attached to it being and looking and being experienced a certain way. And it was all on the side of the bliss, the beauty, the need to control, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And over time as those layers, and not that there really are layers, but there kind of are too, that as they get digested, there's just the freedom of the expression itself.

And it's like all of a sudden the humanness of the human body and the, because we're not immune to being run over by a car. We're not immune to whether the body is going to get cancer. We're not immune to any of that. Like the body will die. The body will perish. The body will experience like the profound levels. Of destruction. I mean, we're not immune to that. So how, you know, it's that reckoning of the absolute reality of the experience itself of pain. You know, if that human experience with that reckoning right there in the center of that cross, that in the midst of this experience, where am I?

Who do I take myself to be? And if we are believing that we are the body and we are the content, then we are in suffering. And that to me, that's all. That is the only distinction that matters, because when we see that that's not who we are, it doesn't change the experience. Not the experience itself is just the experience itself. It's just what it is. But it changes our relationship to it. We just can be softer and more open and find ourselves in, you know, that pause between in and out breath. It's just like, ah. And yeah, so, ah, it's just so amazing. And I felt like saying hi.

I love that. I love the pause between breaths. I felt the emotion in everything you did. Yeah, it was like a bit of a journey, which was nice. I've been taking notes today, which is good, so I can remember everything that's been said and come back to it later. Um, thanks for listening. John David is asking if there are any new projects you are working on or news to share with our family. No. No. Ah, sorry. Yeah, we were kind of contemplating an idea of making an audiobook. But it is just so difficult to get even a space in the house that would be quiet enough.

So I don't know if that's going to happen, if that's what you're asking. I don't know. We'll see. We'll talk. And Bill says, Can you capture that silence? You cannot coexist with that silence. When that silence expresses itself, you are not there this cannot be understood and it is useless to try the silence is life and that which tries to capture it is dead beautiful beautiful and tanya says thank you all such magnificent beauty is expressing in us you all thank you for the beautiful meeting spontaneous relaxing into us being while listening and noticing that is always already here and jb says also thank you for another fantastic sunday morning love you all i think that says that we are kind of reaching the time for lunch so thank you wholeheartedly for your presence and for your contribution and for your reflection of that one yeah thank you