Sailor Bob and the group. NONDUALITY. Give it a wink! ;-)

Wayne, Tony, Carolyn, Anya, Seth, Rosa, Deryn, Saul, Oberon, Jacinta, Andy, Miles, Peter, Dean, Simon, Leo, Hyman, It's good to see you all. Quite a few new faces. Welcome you all. And we'll go through it all in case you don't know what we're talking about. The other people who've been coming for a while have heard the same old thing time and time again. So it sinks in. Understand it. What we talk about, they call it Veda in the Hindu religion. And Veda means non-duality. And they try to describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second. Not two. Only that. So I can't teach you anything.

And I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point to it and ask you to look to where we point it to. To see for yourself. Because if it's in the, what we say non-dual, there's only the one essence. It's patterning, shaping, forming, expressing and experiencing as everything. Some people call it God if you like, but I don't use that term. Because if you look in all the great traditions they all have different concepts or ideas about this so-called God. I use the term intelligence energy. intelligence energy. And that's just another label. And when I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellects.

I'm talking about the same intelligence that's rolling the earth around the sun, causing the tides to come in and out, the seasons to come and go, form all the galaxies and the planets. It's that same intelligence that's breathing you right now, beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, digesting your food. And they tell you in the scriptures that the great mantra is, I am that. So you are already that. I'll break it down as sat-shitananda, existence, consciousness, bliss, or loving to be. And the other two factors are nama-rupa, name and form. Anyone who is not existing right now, you'll say, no, I'm existing.

Anyone who is not conscious or unaware, no, I'm not unaware, I'm conscious. Anyone who's not happy to be, well, you don't want to be dead right now, do you? So you want to be happy to be. So recognize you are already that. And another way I put it, when I say I can't teach you anything, can't tell you anything, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to that body, mind, entity that you might believe yourself to be. I'm talking to that I am that I am. That I am is a sense of presence that's expressing through each and every one of you and translates as the thought I am.

Just to this, nothing else. Because there's nothing else to speak to and no one else to speak. This needs to be investigated and looked into because we've got all these conceptual images, we believe we are this person, this individual, this separate entity. But all the scriptures will tell you that it is indivisible and that it's inseparable, and if it's the one essence it only can be. It's all interconnected. So are you this body? Are you this mind? And you say, no. my body, my mind. Don't you say my house, my car, my coat. You know damn well you're not the house, the coat or the car.

Maybe you're not the body either. And when you investigate it, have a look, what's this body made up of? You realise this body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. If you think you're separate, take your air out of that body. See, I don't think it'd last without that. Take the fire, the body temperature. Take the water, your body's 60% water. Get out of space if you can, get off the earth. So when you investigate, you'll see that you're not separate from these elements. All these elements can be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy.

So all these bodies are vibrating patterns of energy. It's a fuse with that innate intelligence, energy or knowing. So the same thing applies to the mind. Are you the mind? Well, if you believe you are the mind, show me a thing called mind. Can anybody say what mind is? You say, this is my mind. Like my coat, my car, my house again. And what's this? What is mind? Well, all mind as we know it is thought, thinking. What's thought? Sound, noise, vibration, energy. So it's all that pure intelligence energy. They call it space-like awareness in some of the texts. Awareness like space. Well, have a look at space.

Can you find a centre to space? A place where space begins? You can't. Does it have any circumference? A space where any boundaries are in it? It doesn't. So space is empty. And they call it, in Buddhism, a cognising emptiness. Emptiness is cognising. We think we cognise, but we don't. We don't. It's the emptiness of self that does the cognising or knowing. And the Buddha told you that a couple of thousand years ago. And he said, emptiness is form. Pointing out that all these forms are empty. Because he turned it round the other way and said, emptiness is form. And the form can be nothing other than the emptiness.

So they say, it's such and such an answer, the existence, consciousness, bliss, nama, reput, the Nama Rupa is the name we've given ourselves and the form is the body, the body-mind. And they'll say Nama Rupa is Maya, it's illusory. It only appears to be so because it's a phenomenal manifestation and the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. We've taken on these beliefs in this body-mind with the word. We've taken on the word. How many words were you born with? You realize you weren't born with any words and you didn't learn any words until you're about two, two and a half, somewhere around that age.

So how can you say you were born? You can't remember your birth because you had no words to recall it with. You couldn't with it. And the word is not the thing. Take the word water. Drink the word water if you can. Does the word fire burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with it? You can't. So what's this word I or me when you look at it? It is not what you've believed itself to be. And how did you come into existence? Well, we'll go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence, that intelligence.

That intelligence was the intelligence energy that formed within your father. From the prana, the air he's breathing and the food he's eating, there was a livingness expressed, was expressing through it. Your father. And in that pattern you call your father, a little microscopic particle called a sperm formed through the food and the intelligence energy and the functioning going on. That intelligence was to fuse with intelligence energy. And that intelligence was to fuse with life. It knew what to do. The same thing in your mother. That animating life essence in your mother enabled in that pattern, again through the prana and the livingness and the life in it, a little egg to form an ovum.

And that ovum was to fuse with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm knowing what to do, swam to the ovum. When new time... came... came together the innate intelligence of life that life that was in them merged and doubled and grew doubled again and again and formed the little embryo the little fetus which is what you are today what were you doing about it then and we've taken on the idea that we doing this doing that but you didn't and after nine months that little fetus was born and it didn't have any words and it didn't have any words till about he was a couple of years older with the capacity of reasoning that intelligence changes its form in the body the capacity of reasoning came about in that body and we get to learn words parents fussing around saying you're little Johnny or you're little Billy or little Jane or whatever your name might be and you learnt other words or labels learnt what I and the beingness the amness expressed it So I am little Johnny.

That's what we believed and that was became the person. And where does that word person come from? Come from the ancient Lackin language persona, the mask. We believed in this and we've taken on this idea of the persona, the person, the way we think we are these persons. A mask, a conceptual image, it's not our reality. And we can living from that false point of view for all our lives and that's where all the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame and the remorse come about and because we've separated ourselves. You're not separated, what are you? You are the absolute or what they call in Buddhism the great perfection.

What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. It wouldn't be perfect. The same with the absolute. What can you add to it? We'll take away from it. Nothing. But we've taken on this idea of this persona, this conceptual image. And in that sense of separation comes about with us. When the separation is there you don't feel complete because you're not sure of yourself. When people learnt the word, the little child learns the words I or me and the capacity of reasoning developed, and he looked out there and he said that doesn't fit little Johnny, that's not I or not me.

So when that came about he felt separate from it. And with that sense of separation came insecurity and vulnerability and that's when our search started. Because of that sense of insecurity we think we've got to become complete or whole. Not real, it's already so. And that's why it doesn't happen. We're seeking for years and years and years and you go on seeking and you never recognise the truth because you're looking for concepts. You're looking for the answer in the mind. And you'll never find the answer in the mind. And the scriptures tell you that also. It's like all of the peace that passes all understanding.

Why would they say that? Aren't they pointing out that it can't be understood or grasped with a concept and the non-conceptual awareness? Awareness without any concepts is the great perfection. And the great mantra they've got is, I am that. You probably, if you looked into some of these scriptures and religions, you'll see that I am that. Tells you in Isaiah. Be still and know that I am is God. So, we say, I am that. Well, have a look at it. We're talking about the non-dual, one without a second. That's the chair you're sitting on. That's the floor you're sitting on if you haven't got a chair to sit in.

That's the space in the room. That is the room. That is the tree. That's the flower. That's the mountains. Everything is already that. We know it innately, but we've separated it because we've taken it away. We've taken on these terms and separated it all. Now there's me and the other. Duality. Duality is relativity. Relationship. Relative to. And there is absolutely no duality in non-duality. And that's our problem. We separate it with the word and try to become whole and complete when it's already so. As I pointed out before, anybody who is not existing, right now, no, you say, I'm existing. Anybody who's not conscious, no, I'm conscious.

I'm not unaware. And I'm happy to be. So you are already that. And the separation, the conceptual image, is what we call the self-centre, the reference point, or the ego. And this thing we call the ego is a fiction. It doesn't exist. And yet, we've believed that it does and taken it to be real and suffer accordingly. All our concepts, ideas and images are that ego. And Wei Wei Wei told you that a few hundred years ago. He says, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself. And there isn't one. And that's why we call it self, my self.

And if you look in the scriptures again, it'll tell you there's only one Atman, one self. Atman, Brahman is Atman, and all God is Atman. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all that God is. There's a label we put on it. All things were made by him, by the Word. And isn't that so? All these things in the manifestation, you put words on, and there was nothing made that was made without the Word. So we've taken this Word to be real. The word me, the word I, the word my body, and all the rest of it, all labels we put upon ourselves.

And we've taken these words on it and believed it to be so. Now, we've got all these beliefs. And the thing is, they tell us, is the false cannot stand up to investigation. If you question the reality, question all these things, look into them, and if it's false, it'll fall apart. And you know that too, because you've invested so many things. There's a falling apart when you looked into them. If you go down to the ocean, I say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. What do you say? Don't be an idiot. You know the sea's not blue. Yet it appears to be blue.

The sky appears to be blue. Got 30,000 feet or more in the plane. Where's the blueness? Is it coming in the windows? Is it in the plane itself, or is it further out? The water in a mirage. A rainbow. Have a look outside on the misty day, and there's a beautiful colored rainbow in the sky. Go up and have a look at them. Those colors are not there. It's just the sun shining through the mist. Remisting on the clouds of the bay. And forms all these colors. The snake in the rope. The child of a barren woman. The different ways they're pointed out to you in the scriptures.

That the word is not the thing. The word... And all these beliefs we have about these things. You believe you are this person. And have a look. See how it works. Something comes up in your life. You're thinking about it. We've got all these thoughts and words we've added onto it. And we like it. And we don't want the things to like that we like to go away. Not realizing that everything in this manifestation, and I mean everything, is transient. It's constantly changing. That body you walked into this room with now is changing. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now. Not one or two.

But thousands of them. And they're being replaced. And each cell that replaces them is fused with that intelligence changing. Knowing what to do. A liver cell won't replace a heart cell. A skin cell won't. A brain cell won't. A cell won't replace a brain cell. The cells, the intelligence and life in everything. So it's all that one life or one essence. Essence is patterning, shaping, forming, is everything. As Christ told you, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't. He's talking about that sense of presence. That expresses through the life. Through the body, mind, as the thought I am.

That is the life of you. Not the body. And it needs a pattern to express through. Because in its absoluteness, how can it express? So it breaks down and forms different patterns, shapes and forms to express itself through. But it's still that one life. Take the life out of that body. You've got a corpse. Now before it breaks down and burns or buries or whatever they do to it. It's still got its eyes. Still got the ears. Still got the heart, lungs, all the organs, all the kidneys. Everything's still there. But there's no animating life, essence or intelligence that's surviving through it. So, just like a computer.

You've got a computer with all that amazing information to it. What good is it to you if the power's not turned on? So it's the power that's expressing, shaping, forming and expressing through that body now. Or the godliness or whatever label you like to put on it. It's expressing through it. And that is what you are. Pissing through the mind is the primary thought, I am. And this archetype will tell you to stay with the I am-ness. He's not telling you to stay with the thought. He's staying with what that I am represents. Staying with that sense of presence. That sense of presence is knowing what you are right now.

You call yourself a human being. If you believe in God, you'll call God the Supreme Being. Take away that label human. Take away that label supreme. Try and separate the beingness if you can. Can you say you are not? You can shout it as loud as you like. But if you're saying it, you've got to realise there's something there that's enabling it to be said. So it's that life essence that you are. And as Christ says, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life, so can you say it. Recognise it. And know it for certain. But we're locked into this belief.

Something comes up and you like it. And we don't want the good things to go. Not realising that everything is transient. No matter how much you love them, no matter how much you want to keep them there, they're going to change. And they're constantly transiting, they're constantly changing all the time. We don't want it to go. We don't want to lose somebody we love or things like that. We don't want it to go, so what do we do? Trying to keep it there, we resist it. And what's resistance? Resistance is conflict. You're struggling with it. Trying to keep it there. So we struggle with it and try to keep it there.

No matter how much we try, it doesn't happen. Conflict makes you uneasy. Makes you fearful, anxious, depressed, guilty, shameful, remorseful. All our psychological problems come about from that resistance that's going on. And that makes us uneasy. Another word for uneasy. Easiness is disease. Resistance, conflict and disease. Something comes up that you don't like. Oh, I shouldn't be thinking that. That's terrible. That's sinful. That's unhappiness. I don't want to think. I want to get rid of it. What do we do? We resist it. Conflict and disease again. So you see that all the psychological comes up in us because of this conflict. And the resistance that's going on with us.

It's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be guilty, shameful, remorseful, depressed. Me is the cause of my anxiety, my fear, my depression, my guilt. And the effects are the fear, the anger, the depression, the guilt. They're the effects of the cause. Isn't that what so-called karma is? Cause and effect? What happens if I ask myself the simple question? Can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause? Well, work that one out for yourself. Have a look at it. You realize there can't be an effect if it's not related to a cause. So I got rid of all my karma.

Straight away. All the fear, the anxiety and stress. If I am the absolute cause, nothing can be added to the absolute. Nothing can be taken away. What can be superior to me? What can be inferior to you? And what would I want for the other persons? If I am the absolute? When I don't recognize my true nature, and I'm looking for this and wanting that, and trying to pick on this. So you see that this believed in me is the cause of all my psychological problems. Without that cause, I use the analogy of the clouds and the sun. Go outside on a cloudy day, would you say the sun's not in the sky?

You can't see the sun. But no, you've investigated. You know that the sun never leaves the sky. But investigate a little bit further and ask what forms the clouds. And you realize the sun itself forms the clouds. You know the sun in its... Radium. Radium. Radium, yeah. Doesn't know anything about a cloud. Doesn't know anything about it at all. And there are places in its immensity where there won't be any clouds. But all the sun does is radiate and shine. And in that radiance, what does it do? It evaporates water. The water rises and condenses, cools down a bit, and forms a cloud which obscures the sun.

The sun continues to radiate. When it cools it down, it'll blow the... It'll cause the wind to blow and blow the cloud away or bring it down as rain. And that rain will flow back into the rivers, into the ocean again. Do you think you'll ever get the same drop of water out of it? You won't. But it'll come up and form clouds again and all the rest of it. It's the same with us. We... People talk about reincarnation. You'll never get the same... Everything goes back into that space and you'll never get the same person out of it again. It's always fresh and new.

See how that functions. You've got this idea that you are this separate entity, this person. But what's it all take place in? What's the basic screen which take... where every person is? Which take... Where everything takes place? Well, isn't that what they call the basic space of phenomena? Look at space. Can you find the centre of space? Does it have any boundaries? Any circumference? And can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space? What would it be in? See, there's nothing it could be in except space. So, everything is the content of space. Now, space is empty. And we've got all these pattern, shapes and forms.

Can something come from no thing? If everything is the content of space and space is no thing, so you and I and all of this manifestation, the trees, the mountains, the rivers, is no thing. And you know that because you're a thing, I'm a thing, the trees are a thing, the flowers are a thing, all these seeming things that we've taken to believe are real are no thing. Some thing cannot come to nothing. So, you are already and only and ever the absolute. When you break yourselves down into these separate entities, which we're continually doing, look at all the wars, the problems and the things go on and this manifestation because of that, because of that sense of separation.

And, all the beliefs and things we take on. Now, in that analogy is the sun and the cloud. When the cloud comes down and rain and there's more, less clouds in the sky, what's there? There's more clarity, more radiance, the sun shining and it's fuller. What's happening here if there are less thoughts in your mind? The same, using the same thing. Isn't there more clarity? If you've tried it, if you've had taste of it, if you've had a taste of it, isn't there more affection? Isn't there more love and sense of joy in us and well-being, being well? But look at, we don't get time to be with that.

The thoughts are coming up so frequently and often that one thought bounces to another. How many times or what time or thing you have to say what it tells you in the Bible? Be still and know that I am God, if you like to use that term. Be still, be silent. Be that cognising emptiness that you are. Re-cognise it. Recognise it, keep recognising it. One of the things in the Bible says, be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind when you need to, when you need to keep reminding yourself that you're not what you believe yourself to be?

In that reminding, know the truth. And that's the other scriptural thing. Know the truth, the truth will set you free. What are you free from? Free from all these beliefs we've taken on board. That's what we point to here and ask you to look along those lines. And some of you have, some of the ones that have looked along those lines have got a good understanding, the same as I, and they might be able to put it in different words where it might be easier for some of you to believe if you came to that. But a belief is not the actual. Understand that. The definition of belief is an unquestioning acceptance of something in the absence of reason.

It means we haven't reasoned it out. We've taken it for granted. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. When you put your belief to the test, after that test, see if they stand up to it. Some of them will, which are the actual, and some of them won't. But then, to recognise the ones that won't will be believing in and suffering accordingly. You'll be free of that belief. Anyway, that's what I'm pointing out. And as I say, others have had a taste of it. And people get sick and tired of some of these religious things they've been told to believe in. And so there's got to be more to it than that.

And they look a little bit further. And you wouldn't be here if you weren't doing that. You're not satisfied with what you've heard. And you think there's something more. And you come to where you mightn't find it here. You might. Who knows? But if you look hard enough, it'll take you. If you're open to it and leave it happen, it's breathing you, it's beating you, it's beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, enabling the thoughts to come up and respond to them. So it'll take you where you've got to go if you let it. But while we're trying to become something, if I meditate and do this, I will become.

You look into time and see becoming is a concept of time. When you investigate time, you'll see there's no such thing as time. Trying to become being can never become. Becoming implies a future time. Investigate time. Ask yourself this, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Have a look at what's wrong. What can you say if you're not thinking about it? And do it. And you'll say, I was in the past. I'll say to you, try and live a moment ago. Try and live yesterday. Try and live tomorrow. You can't live yesterday. You can recall it. And what you're recalling is only there as long as you recall it.

Because if you don't remember what you thought a minute ago, it's gone. It won't. The same with your future. You can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do when you leave here. But that anticipation and imagination is going on right now. And Saga had told you, tells us that he says, nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. We're troubled by so many things, but nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Well, look at that word imagination. Break it down to imagine. Or break it down further to image in. Imagine. Realise that's all we're doing. We're creating these mental or conceptual images and believing in them.

And that's what's troubling us. So the thing is to recognise that and know the truth. Cat, you can take it on from there. If you've got any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. Because... it won't... won't... not investigating, you're not going to do anything about them. If you don't like it, well, you don't have to be here. There's plenty of other places you can go to. But if it resonates, or rings a bell, know that it's being cognised by that innate intelligence that you are. And follow it where it takes you from there. Away you go. Just one comment. We have 20 plus people with us who are watching online.

And plenty of welcome messages to Bob and Cat and friends and love sent from all over the world. And this is from British Julia. All embracing, all loving, ever present. The truth is simple. And at the moment I find it funny how my thoughts convinced me otherwise. What a beautiful little summary. And she says it's right. The truth is simple. And I tell you that in the scriptures. We say ignorance is our only problem. When we hear that word ignorance, we think, oh, we're dull or stupid. We can't understand. It doesn't mean that at all. What it means is we are ignoring what we actually are.

And focusing into this conceptual image we've taken, we believed in when we first heard it. Just a matter of ignoring. Don't ignore your actuality anymore. Sit with it. Let it be. That was all. So now the mic is going to go into the room. If anyone would like to perhaps ask a question or maybe say what did you resonate with or what wasn't clear. Actually, really, the spiel is quite overwhelming. You have a couple of hundred different pointers pointing to the same one, the same thing, but really resonating with one pointer is enough. It will take you all the way. Just staying with that. So anyone would like to start?

I think the thing that landed the most for me today was the… Oh, yeah. And thank you guys for like, I'm taking life in you for self-organizing and sitting in shoes because we have quite a few places to sit there and there are pillows behind in the corner, but it is just brilliant. Everyone who needed a seat gets one. Some people get two. Wow. That's wonderful. Um, yeah, I think what landed for me the most today, but correct me if this is incorrect. Um, was that like the conceptual mind is mind is what creates duality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That really. The relationship is dual. And see how, how without.

Duality. There can't be anything like if you, if you imagine there is no conceptualizing or extracting anything, there is a homogeneous blob. Like if you paint everything in white, there is no white and nothing else either. The duality is the necessity for the appearance. You either have the 10,000 things or nothing at all. And there is even to have nothing at all is totally beyond conceiving because you have to be something to know. There is nothing to be able to even. Yeah. So, so there is actually no option. What is, is, is the appearance of the duality, but in essence it is non-dual because everything is the same life, the same omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience vibrating into this different beautiful smoke in the mirror, rainbows and 10,000 things, which are all empty because none of it has any independent nature.

Every single form depends on the presence. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. Of the nature. And on everything else, like nothing could be separated from its environment or from space. So it really is like a dream. It's a beautiful dream if you don't suffer anymore. And that word relationship relative to, look at the male, female relationship. Well, there's relativity to that, isn't there? Not going to be too much happiness. there can be conflict. When there's a natural merging of the two, then that natural love is there, can't it?

When you're not relating, it's got your concept about him, he's got his concept about her, you know? And it's not, it's conceptual. And then the business goes on, how much I'm giving and how much I'm receiving. I'm giving more than less than, and that is all relative to the self-center. It is all the idea that there is a me that needs to provide for itself, while life takes care of all of that. It doesn't really need a narrator who will cater for any of it. Yeah, I think the interesting thing is the storyline, isn't it, really, when we look at mind and how mind operates.

It's a continuous flow of this storyline, which is self-referencing all the time. Yeah, who am I? Where am I? Who am I in relationship to this form over here, and so on and so on. Speaking to the... Yeah, sorry, sorry. Yes, I will. And, you know, this is the, it's ultimately is a self-referencing, limiting, self-limiting, bubble-forming, you know, kind of context-making machine, isn't it? But of course, we don't have to live under its auspices, really, because there is this vastness of everything else. You know, we delude ourselves, don't we, into thinking that this storyline is the truth. It goes on and on and on. One thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another.

But, you know, using Bob's pointer, just come to a full stop, you realize that you don't disappear when the storyline stops. You know, you just realize that there's a whole lot more going on, which is all self-evident. It's beyond relative, you know, understanding. It just is. Thank you. I have a comment from American Julia for a change now. And she's responding to British Julia. She says, truth is simple. The complexity is for twisted minds. And... Yes, it is funny because the complexity is illusion. And the complexity is totally to be loved and appreciated because it's incredible. And I don't really know what the twisted minds are, but it sounds funny and it sounds sweet.

But yeah, go on. Hello, everyone. Again, my name is Maud. I had my really strong realization, a year ago, and I've been just getting... It's been a journey where... It's a journey to nowhere. And just deepening that understanding and living as that awareness, that open, spacious, the only self that there is. And it's been such a beautiful journey. And I'm so grateful that I'm finally getting to meet Bob and such amazing people over here who have gathered to celebrate this amazing truth, the one and only truth there is. And I had a question about gratitude. So before my realization, I was big on gratitude because self-improvement and self-improvement circles, gratitude was a big thing.

And I used to say at least 100 things that I'm grateful for. And since my realization, this understanding that there is no person here and there is no outside world, I have absolutely no proof that there is an outside world. The only knowledge of the outside world that I have right now is seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, and basically, it's perception and sensations. So all there is to sensation is sensing. And all there is to sensing is the knowing of it. And I'm that knowing, the one that I call I. And all there is to perception is perceiving. And again, all there is to perceiving is the knowing of it.

And I am that knowing again. And the third thing in my experience is, the thought, the mind. And mind is a series of thoughts. And all there is to thought is the process of thinking. And all there is to thinking again is the knowing of it. And everything just comes back to the knowing. And again, it's not a knowing of anything. It's just knowing. There is no knower and there is no perceiver. And it's just blows, blew my mind. And for so long, I've been trying to live as a belief. When I first heard about Bob in The Greatest Secret by Rhonda Byrne. It's an amazing book.

I highly recommend. That's how my non-duality journey started. And in that book, I sort of acquired a lot of beliefs that I'm this open, spacious, um, peaceful, undisturbed. But I didn't have the experience. I just took on a lot of beliefs. But then when I really did my self-inquiry and really did the investigation, I found that this is not something to believe in. This is my experience. I am the knowing with which I know my experience, in which my experience appears, with which my experience is made. And it's not something that I'm afraid of. And it, so the knowing with which I know my experience, does it appear or disappear?

No, it's always present. And it is always in pristine condition. No experience can touch me. No, even the deepest depression is pervaded by this light of awareness. And no experience can touch me. But when I'm done with that experience, it just blows my mind. Right? It's just, it's, it's, it's, yeah, and, and I, I, I don't have to be, okay, I'm, I'm peaceful, I'm peaceful. Yeah. It's, it's hard not to be peaceful. The knowing cannot not be peaceful. The knowing cannot not be disturbed. Has anyone in this room experienced an absence of knowing, when the knowing is not there. The knowing is always there. The knowing is in pristine condition always.

It doesn't age. It's peaceful. It's undisturbed. And you have access to it all the time. And I have this peace that is flowing through me all the time, all the time in the background. And it just makes me want to cry. It just makes me want to cry all the time. And I'm so grateful to the teachers like you and Francis, Lucille and Rupert Sparrow, who have been a great, great source of... Life is beautiful. Life is beautiful. Now coming back to my question. Um... About gratitude. So when I realized that there is no outside world, I had this perception of a God up in the sky and me, separate person over here.

And I'm just left at the mercy of that God. But when I realized that there is the only self there, the one that I call I, which is the intelligence, which is the God. And now that I'm thankful for something when I do my gratitude, it's just a funny feeling. Yeah. That I'm saying thank you to myself. And I just wanted to ask you if that's your experience as well. Do you feel that sort of, um, funny feeling when you say that I'm thankful to myself or I'm thankful to this amazing weather. I'm thankful to be here. Yet the love is there. And the feeling of love is always there.

And I feel such deep love. And I feel so grateful to be here. And I feel so grateful to be here. And I'm thankful for this wonderful job for everyone over here. But it's kind of a funny feeling that you are being, you are saying gratitude to yourself, right? Yeah. So if you could, um, say something about that. I think you're doing okay. Well, as I say, you are complete. What can you add to it, take away from it? None of you. But with the same feeling of gratitude is coming. sure it is there or not. That's it also. And technically gratitude is just a translation of love into the dualistic world.

And you already kind of answered your own question. Because it stems from love. You don't really have to translate it, I'm grateful to myself in the other form or in the world. No, you just stay with that love, which is the origin of the gratitude. That's my experience. All the gratitude that would usually come as me versus the world. Oh, I just love my life. Oh, I love the way. Oh gosh, this is me and the world. No, it just comes with that sort of a blissful feeling like, ah. Yes, you can't separate it by saying I am. You know, it just is. Yeah, it's a natural appreciation that doesn't really come as a division of me versus something, which is a very important thing.

Yeah. Which you expressed beautifully in a way. Beautifully. Yeah. And you got a full cup. What you need to do now is pour it out. Pass it on. Yeah. And we have a comment here. Rohan, thanks Peter. He says, that hit home is just taken for granted that there is an I to whom all of this story is happening. We never think to look into I until it is pointed out. It's a cameo, but we have to think about the I. I didn't think they're taking the I as we speak, but that it is not solid and substantial like we believe it to be. Beautiful.

And Kiran says, I know that's the only thing keeping me separate in the bracket, in the quote unquote, is the idea of separation. I seem to get stuck in this self-loathing loop of blaming myself for feeling separate. So it continues like a massive loop. Bob on the no yeah yeah just seek here on how that loop is happening within that open field of consciousness or knowing that you already are see how the mind looping taking credit blaming taking credit blaming thinking it should be different all that activity is happening within that open field of knowing of being knowing that you are and you love hopefully and give us a call and Julia says I think that what you were expressing beautifully stated and that was American Julian British Julia says gratitude changes perception for the believed in false I and that's lovely but what we are has no need to try to be grateful yeah that's a good aspect of the word gratitude and I think that's a good way to put it yeah that's a good aspect of it as well beautiful thank you Julia and there is John saying an old and truly great Bob dude-ness John Bob's dude-ness saying in terms of gratitude yeah they call each other dude for a lifetime yes he would say give it a wink which sounds like a duality give it a wink yeah senses as duality but try it it too is non-dual give it a wink which is so lovely gratefully giving gratitude to it get rid of all non-dual carefulness give it a wink that's what I say acknowledge that scriptural saying acknowledge him in all my ways he will direct the way power so yourself I know you're there give it a wink you know there it comes up it comes up and answers and Advaita police would come and say oh no no who is there to give it a wink to who you know there's nobody there well shut up just just follow the point it really is about resonating with the heart the moment we use language we go into duality because language is always operating in the pairs of opposites there's no opposite there's a duality because language is always operating in pairs of opposites there's no opposite there's no opposite there's a duality other way that's why they sell it as inexpressible it is only pointing so instead of looking at the finger see where it's pointing because it is an innate wisdom that everyone was born with is is there like you know you had your realization the first thing you realize oh shit it has always been there yeah it was never missing and it was so close to you closer than your breath and it when I first realized that the world fell off my shoulders that why didn't anyone tell me that yeah why didn't anyone tell me I felt uh like this should be taught in schools there was there was this absolutely that feeling of the world is falling off my shoulders that I don't have to do anything it was always been like that it was the knowing with which I know my experience has always been peaceful yet it's like the metaphor of the sky The blue sky is always there, even if the weather is changing in Melbourne.

It's sunny and then it's cloudy and then there's a thunderstorm. But the sky is always peaceful. It doesn't matter even if a bird flies past. You can say that it's a thought. The sky doesn't mind. The sky is always there. And when you realize that nothing can harm you, nothing can touch you, yet you are intimately one with that experience, you feel this love for everything. And you feel this, you don't need any sense of security. You feel unconditional love for everything. Because everything that I see, everyone here is me. And that I... For... For a long time I didn't understand that how come this...

Okay, I just don't get that how come this bag or this water bottle is me. And then I found out that all I know of this bottle is the sensation and seeing. So all there is to the sensation is the process of sensing. And all there is to sensing is the knowing of. And that knowing is what I am. The one that I call I am. That I always call that. All my life I've said that I am aware of this. I am aware of the sensation at the soles of my feet. I am aware of this light. I am aware of this room. So it's just amazing.

And that sense of peace is provided in all experience. In every area. In every area of your life. And strangely and magically the world reflects that. It's just... It magically will confirms that you are this space like awareness in which all your experience appears. Isn't that? Yeah. Home you never left. What's really clear to me is so beautiful is that you've... This space... The spaciousness of this awareness has dropped. Into your heart. Where it's no longer a process of cognitive division and understanding. And putting this in categories. It just is one whole beautiful thing. And yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. Yeah. And before this I used to try to meditate.

Which was really important. It created. But it's not... I found out that it's not necessary. The self that you are. Is... The... It's... What do you call it? It's... Always meditating. It's always meditating. Yeah. Knowing to meditate. Spontaneous meditation. It's going on all the time. You had this saying Bob. Undistracted non-meditation. Yeah. Go on. Say it. Because that's what I call it. Undistracted non-meditation. Not distracted from... Nothing to... Nothing to... Nothing to... Nothing to... Nothing to... Nothing to meditate on. No one... No one... No one to meditate. And before this I used to sit down. And used to try to control my thought. Okay. I'll not think anything.

I'll keep my mind blank. And then when a thought appears. And I used to, you know, go with that thought train. And then I used to come back. And I used to judge myself. Oh, this is not how you do meditation. And now when you realize that. You just let the thoughts. Flow. Because again those thoughts are you as well. You just... There's no judgment. You just let them flow. And they just dissolve in the awareness that you are. As Hale likes to say. Hale Dorskin likes to say. Awareness is the universal solvent. It dissolves everything. Yeah. I had something forgotten. Oh, did you? Oh.

Okay. Maybe that... Yes? It'll come up again. It will come up. We have a comment from Rohan. He says, Papa Ramdas knew how to deal with... He's Advaita police types. When some scholars try to argue with him and claim that what he was saying was not strictly non-jewel, he would ask them in return, who is the one whom you are now arguing? They would always have to admit, I'm arguing with myself and shut up. Beautiful. Thank you, Rohan. Yeah, that's brilliant. Is that Papaji? No, he says Papa Ramdas. Ah, Papa Ramdas. Yeah. And Larry says, Hey, Bob. Hello from Toscon, Arizona. It's good to see you healthy and hail and filled with fire.

Thanks to Kat and everyone in participation. Thank you, Larry. And John says again, A couple of habit patterns. The dude train ends up gaining momentum and it does you itself. The other, our default, is also just a momentum. Hanging out in the presence of I am just alters where you are focusing. Don't make hierarchies. No turning the new God of I am into the old God. Yes. Beautiful. Beautiful dude. And now Julia, British Julia says, I didn't catch the name of the happy lovely guy on the floor, but so much love for the message. What's your name? More. More. More. More. So yes, British Julia showering you with love.

So much love for the message. The path is similar for me. One year and several books, including the greatest secret. It was Bob. I cut and an online friend who took me home. But they are me. The message resonates. Attention then went back into thoughts. But lately I am back home. Thank you. And thank you, Julia, for sharing it. And thank you everyone who shared their understanding or their glimpses, because it really demonstrates to everyone how simple, basic and obvious and accessible for all of you. It is the seeking doesn't really have to take lifetime. It is basically just looking what's looking and see it.

It's nothing there and see is just knowing, just looking, just being. So, yes, please, if anyone else would like to just share your understanding or your question, just to even really bring that energy and amplify that energy to show that obviousness. How simple, how easy, how how here now, how how there is really nothing, as you beautifully pointed, nothing to meditate on and nothing to achieve in future because there is no one who could possibly achieve any idea. Because what liberation, enlightenment, freedom, all those words, what do they mean? Everyone may have. Image in their head of what they mean, and they don't it. They're not an image.

Like Bob said, it can't be grasped with the mind because mind is only a vibration happening in that field of stillness, in that sky like awareness. So quit trying to grasp it with the vibration to get from noise to the silence, using the word and narration to get beyond the words. That's impossible. That's ridiculous. And just relax into what's obvious. And as Bob says, stop ignoring is ignoring that miracle of being because on one hand it is obvious and for the mind it is nothing. It is boring. It's nothing there being. But it is a miracle. It is a it is a source of of all that incredible dream.

So it really is to be fully acknowledged, appreciated and loved and send a wink. So even though you say it's so easy, but yet, you know, me, myself and probably a lot of others, we're still stuck in the mud. Correct. Yeah. Right. So for the mind, it's not easy for the mind. It is impossible. Impossible. I mean, I've been in this for a long time. I still see no light at the end of the tunnel. But you know that you are. I know. And you don't know it. I only know it here. Yeah. Yeah. I know. But do you know in your heart when you stop thinking, do you still know that you are?

I don't know if I've got a heart to know. But when you pause thinking, when you stop thinking for a moment, just for a second, you still exist. Of course. Yes. But you say, I know. But that's not important, right? The fact that you exist is bullshit. It's not that big deal. It is a big deal. It is the greatest news. It is the greatest. It's a secret. My wife is pumping this into me all the time every day. And I still can't seem to see the light. Because he always sees there's something to get. Yes. There's nothing to get. Go on, Mary. Yes. I don't want to say too much.

I don't like talking in public. I don't like talking in public. It's not me. There's nothing to get. You are that. And everything is an appearance. There's nothing you can do or not do. Because everything happens. Right? You can search if the search appears. And you're not searching if the search appears the same way. It's all appearances. So it's there for us. The mind is to create us to believe that this is reality. In actual fact, it's not. It's an illusion. And I get nervous, guys. I don't like talking in public. No. No. No. So it's just a matter of patience. And if it's meant to happen, we'll take you there.

Now, even when you're there, I don't mean to disrespect anyone. There's nothing to brag or anything, because at the end of the day, you've gone back where you were, what you are. There's nothing else there. So it's and I understand when you first wake up and I understand where you're coming from, we get excited because all of a sudden now we found out who we are. And the excitement, you know, feel like, you know, I'm gifted. I'm happy and this and that. But with time, awareness always shows up in different ways. And you find you're settled in. You become. Well, I am like that, I don't have classes and I don't teach.

I am where I'm at. For my husband, I talk to him all the time. I say things like that. If my kids are due to. But then you just realise that that's what life is. And I even said to my husband, we use words. They're not the right. We don't have the right words to describe what is. We don't have the right words to describe anything. So in reality, if we were to go by that, words are heavy. Words are very heavy. They don't do justice. And if we were to go by that, we wouldn't have nothing to say. Because once you know, there's nothing to say.

Anything that happens, you accept for what it is and you don't blink about it. Whether it's good or bad, it makes no difference. So life becomes more peaceful. Yes. Does it become egoistic? No, you lose it. Desires move out with it. I think it's more simple, more than anything. And more understanding. You understand people from their core of them, not from the surface. Yeah. As I said, when you first wake up, you think, you know, you've got gold. Gold has always been there and gold creates it. And then when you know, you see it, you see for what it is and that's it. Everything just moves away and it's on a chord.

That's right. Without doing anything. And that's not good or bad because it's just an experience. They're all appearances. There's nothing here. We see with the different glasses. It shows us this with different sight to make everything believe it's real. In actual fact, it wasn't for space. It would be all clinked all together. Right. It would be because it doesn't show the separation. Right. So we have different glasses to see life in a different way. That's all. That's all it is. But at the end of the day, we're all the same from one and one only. Or zero really. It's not even one. Can't even say one.

The words don't do justice to describe it. I can always say to my husband, I can't, even though what I'm saying to you, it's not right. The words aren't right. It's not wrong as well. Well, it's not right or wrong because there's not right or wrong because nothing exists. That's right. It's just a matter of getting across to someone else to make a bit more understanding. That's all. The description is not as described. The map's not the territory. Just is. Non conceptual awareness without the concepts. Without the labels. Leave it as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. Just as it is.

Is not was. And it's not what will be. It is right. And on that note, I have a couple of other comments from our online community. Larry says, this is the best kind of marriage squabble I've ever witnessed. And Tanya says, I'm not sure if I'm the right person to say this. So just bring the attention back to the open, empty space you are instead of on thoughts or sensations. No, no. I think neighbors are attacking. Yeah, they did it yesterday as well. Anyway, Tanya says, just bring the attention back to the open, empty space that you are. Instead of the thoughts or sensations, feelings is all that is needed.

There is no me entity here, but still questions or a needing to know more comes up. Also, the thought of wanting to express non duality as well as Bob and Kat appears. When the thought is paused, there is no problem or desire to know. Seems there is still seeking or there is a thought pattern of seeking rather and pointers. To start with Tanya, you are expressing it wonderfully. I'd say, OK, often as good as Bob or maybe better. You're saying it beautifully. And if the thought happens that there is more, you recognize it as a thought. If the feeling happens that you need to continue seeking, you just see that feeling as a wave on the ocean.

But you were the ocean. It doesn't have to touch you. Did you want to add something to it, Bob? No, it's not. Yeah, it's been it's been happening all day yesterday as well. Just and Julia British Julia asked, I think it was for you, Tony. Are you aware, like, you know, whether you alive or aware or awake? Tanya is answering yes. And British Julia. OK, it was for between the girls start from there. It seems we start from false. I listen to Bob, but not from the. Mind. And Tanya says, thank you, Julia. Starting from there, thought stops and listening and seeing is happening without concepts.

Spot on, that's it. One love says Ben and that's it. So anyone any questions coming? Yes. Say something for those of us who are. Not comfortable with silence. So non-conf non-comfort with the silence implies that the silence is doing its job on the form or the cluster of resistance that which we consider as a physical and psychological body, just sit comfortably. And remain comfortable. And. Soon within three, four hours, very soon. Your psychological, physical body realizes that the comfort is the answer because it gets very uncomfortable, it come in in comfort. Comfort is very disturbing and intense for discomfort that we used to, which is physical and psychological body.

So things get worse before they get better, which means sometimes you feel bigger than your physical body as a psychological body. Your mind quickly call it ego. This is my ego and just sit and remain. And when I say remain, it's not during the time when you sit there, you remain there. And that's all is necessary to be done. Doing nothing. Which is sitting comfortably. The more comfortable you sit, the longer in perception of time you sit, the deeper you get into yourself. It's already over man. And. It's done. And for this moment, it's done. The next moment, mind says, OK, stand up and do something.

And while you stand up and doing something, it deceive you. And for the rest of the day, you do everything other than sitting and living your life aligned with life, which is sitting and being comfortable. You don't need to prepare yourself for that in the same way that you do need to prepare yourself to jumping into the water. If you jump into the water, you're going to get drenched. It doesn't matter if you're ready or you believe that the water is not water or. Anything else in your mind. You don't need to prepare yourself for that. Just sit comfortably. It's doing its job all the time.

24, 7, 3, 6, 5. There is no possibility for form and psychological and physical body to prevent the silence to purify the psychological and physical body. When you. Sit comfortably. That's. That's enough. That's enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have a Gilbert. I think has an answer for this. And Sebastian agreed. They are no prescriptions for no thing. And that's a spot on comment. That's a good comment. And there was a ram saying and this is for you, Tony, deeply respect. That that elders, my older man honesty, people must be open with their confusion and suffering rather than indulging in pretence and John says same page and Jane says the same page.

Yes, this is really beautiful. That is really something deeply moving. You definitely do have the heart and you definitely do show that heart by admitting that sort of, you know, and of course, we all know that, like even those who have complete clarity have been in the place where being was taken for granted and not interesting and not miraculous and not incredible and not blissful. But it was nothing because mind is more exciting. Sometimes you wonder, you say, well, was I better off before before I heard of non duality or slow. Now you can't go back, but you can't go forward. Yeah. What is the truth that you're referring to?

That is so just interesting what you said this then you can't go back and I'm just interested to know what it is that what truth of you arrived at, which is irrefutable now for you such that you cannot go back. You see what I mean? You must have known that you now know something about something that I can go back. And I'm waiting for. Yeah. Epiphany. See, that's that's the thing. A lot of people wake up, wait for the epiphany because they have expectation that there is some sort of a fireworks going to happen. But look at those cards. They in their Buddha nature, in their natural state.

And they're not in ecstatic bliss. They're not in any sort of epiphany. I'm not sure we born a cat. And that's the yeah, that's the point. That is the natural state as in nature. I understand it's only we imagined ourselves to be in it and we have to drop off that imagination to realise that we have always and ever been in the natural state, just like the tree and the cat. I've been sort of going off it and on a cold and hot sort of thing. Yes. I haven't listened to anybody on on YouTube or whatever. I haven't read any books at one stage. That's all I was doing.

I was sort of gone off because much to say that, well, there's nothing you can do. Well, if there's nothing I can do, why bother then? Yes. The Saga tells you. We try to grasp it with a concept and we fail. It's non conceptual awareness. Just leave it as it is. Yeah. And trust that life because that life is beating your heart, is breathing you. That life is doing everything. The life is throwing thoughts. You it's still and I totally get it. You know, this imagination, this capacity to imagine incredible pleasures and incredible joys and to understand the world in conceptual way is so enticing.

It's so attractive. And I was thinking with the imagination that how could you even ever compare that? You know, you can have a multiverse of different images and in the heart there is emptiness, there is nothing so there's nothing really that attractive to to get attention in there rather than keep it there rather than keep it with the imagination. But you got to trust that life because that imagination doesn't breathe you doesn't beat your heart. So it really is stepping down from that cloud of attraction, from that entertainment, like super-hipper entertainment device. Can I say something? I just want to ask you, who is it that's stuck?

Who is it that can't go back? Sometimes I think it's Tony, but I know there isn't any Tony. I know both sides of the story. But there's still a story. Well, yes. Yes, that's the thing. The story is all relative to Tony. As you said correctly, Tony doesn't exist. That narration is still ... When I say Tony doesn't exist, it's only because it's not really a knowing, it's more of information. You understand? Yes. You're more attracted to ... Yes. Yes. Sorry. It's more of what I've heard, or what information, but it's not really an experiential knowing. Like the gentleman down the bottom there. Yes. He's speaking from experience.

Yes, I understand. Whereas mine, I'm speaking from what I've heard, what I've seen, or whatever. It's different. Yes. Yes. That's right. Yes. I know what you mean, but you're still sucked into the Tony story, aren't you? Yes. It's great that you're so honest that you say that. You know? That's all there is to it. It's fantastic. But if you take the focus from the story, it's that old ... I just kept thinking of that old analogy of the railway station and the trains coming in and out. The railway station is always constant. It's not going to move. It's solid. That's the presence that you are.

The trains coming in and out are the thoughts, including the thought about you. Yes. You know? That presence awareness, no matter what's going on in the mind, no matter what you think, no matter what you feel you haven't got- It's still there. That railway station or that presence is- It's always there. ... constant. The trains coming in and out, no matter what they say or no matter what they identify with, they're still just coming in and out. It's like you can use all different pointers. You can use the clouds in the sky. You can use the water in the bucket. The brilliant pointers that Bob tells us every day.

But the bottom line is that thing that Kat said is breathing you at night, that's that presence that you are. Yeah, I understand that. The rest of it is just a story, no matter what it's about. You are the railway station. You are that presence. Yes. The trains coming in and out. Maybe I'm waiting for something which will never happen. You know what I mean? Well, there's someone that's waiting and that's the image you have about yourself. And that's the Tony. And that image that you have about yourself, as Bob has pointed out for many, many years, is never the real. The image is never the real.

And you are actually aware of that pattern of waiting, of that imagined self that is waiting for the real. Yeah. Yeah. And the epiphany. So there is an awareness of it. There is a knowing of it. So you are that knowing. And within that knowing, sometimes the pattern of waiting is there. And sometimes the pattern of waiting is not there. But you are always there. Yeah, yeah. And I know, looking from the mind, it means nothing. It's so uninteresting. It's so blunt, empty. But you can't deny it. is the fact that sometimes there is a struggle sometimes there is a seeking sometimes there is strong identification and other times it's not but you are always there the being is always there and now putting the heart into that which never changes that being that truth falling in love with that truth really resting the attention in that truth in that reality that takes you deeper and deeper that slowly relaxes that attention from that fantastic entertainment drama playing the imagination and slowly pulls you in more and more into the true nature and it unfolds like initially it may be blunt and boring but it unfolds as an incredible mind-blowing miracle but most of the time it's like for the cuts it's nothing and like maybe Harry says, it's nothing to talk about, nothing to fuss about.

What a big deal. It's nothing. Like Bob and I, we are living here together nearly seven years. We never talk non-duality. It's nothing to get high on. It's nothing to really, yeah, it's just life as it is. There is no suffering. There is no desires. There is nothing wrong with anything. But there is also nothing to seek or to have or to, you know, just resting in that nothing, being that sky-like nothing, that empty space. And if there is a strong attraction to the story, you just recognize, oh, there is a strong attraction to the story. Oh, there is an engagement with the narrative. And you are the...

I love reflect, but my problem is the head, the story, you know, just non-stop. Yeah, it's a habit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a habit. It's a habit. You know, see? See if you can actually enjoy that habit because this is nothing to do with you. It is just something that we've learned as we rehearsed, as we were three-year-old rehearsing what we're going to say. You know, that's how the narrative kicks in and we start talking. Some people do a lingo and they have the narratives in both languages. Some people dream in one language and awake in another one. It is really just what is happening within the awareness.

It is the awareness that you are. You always the awareness underneath and the content. And the moment you can recognize, oh, I'm with the drama, blah, blah, blah again. You just give yourself a wink. Ah, cool. Yes. So the recognition happened. Every moment. So you step back all the time, get out of the moment, yeah. And celebrate the moment of recognition because the moment you actually realize you are in the story, oh, shit, at this moment you're free. At this moment you are at least part of the story. Part of that attention is free. That is liberated from that imaginary story. And the story is always going to go on.

It's only when you have a preference to what's going on in the story that causes the resistance or the split, you know. And like Bob says, nothing can trouble you but your own imagination. So enjoy the imagination, but it's when Tony wants, it's one part of the mind trying to get another part of the mind. There's no answers in the mind. Yeah. Yeah, when there is an emotional attachment and a strong charge, strong involvement in that. You know, like unfortunately I knew a person once, I was in Byron Katie School whose son committed a suicide, stole the gun from his father's safe and killed himself because he couldn't get the iPhone.

That's how. Did you watch it? Yeah. iPhone. iPhone. iPhone. Desires. Desires that are, you know, they are emotionally charged. He was 11 years old. Oh my God. It's a tragic story. Absolutely tragic. It never put her back on her feet. And this is what the, you know, subscribing into that story completely unconditionally, letting that story to sweep you off, take away still all of the attention in it. What a crazy story. It's a crazy story. I mean, it's a crazy story. I mean, the crazy outcomes come from that fanatical belief that I should have this or this should happen. This is where the desire goes ballistic, goes crazy.

But when it is recognized, you can, for a moment, you're free. You can laugh. And that moment and that amount of attention, that's free, liberated, resting in. Mm-hmm. Just celebrate every moment. Every awakening. Okay. It's five times. Five times. I'm just going to include a couple of comments we have from people online, and we're done, and we go for lunch. So Tanya says, thank you, Kat. Yes, expressing is happening perfectly well. Just a thought of judgment was appearing. Brilliant, Tanya. You get it. Yes, she's catching herself instantaneously. The thoughts are appearing in a space, but not necessarily the truth. Thinking is just happening like the heart is beating all by itself.

Absolutely. And British Julia says, I agree. My are you aware was to him. Thoughts are convincing, but we need a certain discipline at first to starve the attention from this experience. I love this vulnerability and self-honesty. Yes, this discipline. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Ifplanet heart, you really longing for that freedom, that effort of catching yourself in getting caught in the attention will just spontaneously will become effortless. So that's. The truth that's the way that I'll that presence eats away the lie.

The more the attention is put on, uh, the lie, less attention on the cometor attention on that presence. it just eats it away doesn't matter what sort of active imagination you've got it'll just do it meditation and things like that can be very helpful like to train the mind as it's all habit and living in the past or future generally um and like what tony's um talking about the struggle that we have if we sit down for 10 days in a structured environment and we're not talking and we're just watching i've done a couple of them you know just watching our monkey mind all day and all night and not sleeping all night because you've had to do this and that you just really get to sit and observe it like what the gentleman was alluding to over there like when we're just in our day-to-day life it's not very often people get busy or they're at work or doing whatever it's not very often that you'll sit down and go okay i'm just going to sit with this for a whole day or 10 hours or whatever so yeah i've found the the passion of very helpful in that regard because you can't really move for 10 days you're just sitting with the monkey mind and watching you know all its dramas and um not speaking so it's very helpful did you have something i was just um like just said i can relate to um tiny is that correct yeah um and i used to be so attached before reality realization to the states of mind that i'll be happy when that happens i'll be happy when this thought goes away i'll be happy when just delaying my happiness and just being and justifying that storyline but then i realized that i know this story i know this story and tiny you know this story right am i correct and does this knowing can you increase this knowing by any any means has this knowing since your you were a child has this knowing increased or decreased it's always the same and does this knowing has any desires no does this knowing gets disturbed when you have any negative thought or negative feeling.

The knowing is always constant. The knowing is always undisturbed. It's in pristine condition. It cannot be disturbed. It's this open spacious awareness in which the knowing, the knowing of the story is there. In which the seeing is happening, in which the listening is happening, the sensation is happening. So you don't have to be peaceful. You cannot not be peaceful. So when you look at your direct experience and I did when I found this, I was just blown away. And I'm again so grateful to all the amazing teachers, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, Bob, Rupert, Francis, Hale, everyone has been and the medium of YouTube. And I'm so grateful to again, Rhonda for writing that amazing book through which I got to know about sailor Bob Adamson.

And I am again, very, very grateful to meet such amazing beings and to be in presence of so much love and compassion. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. No, I won't. I have just one last comment from our friend, John dude. You guys he says now now now, engaging in the story about the story inadvertently feeds the story as well. Life feeds on life. I think a powerful tool and the proper use of denial, skip the engagement with whatever you are in the story or not. Let the story about the mind and the stories, I, I also think we all are so easily into a story of trying to remove another story, which is also a mirage, responding to a mirage.

There is love. It's been here today. Beautiful. Thank you, John. And thank you, everyone. Yep.