This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Sometimes they're going to hear the same old thing over and over again. We base our teachings on what they call in Hinduism, Advaita. Advaita meaning non-duality. And they try and describe non-duality as saying it's one without a second, not two. And that's what needs to be recognised. It is absolutely that. It is non-duality. It's all the one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as everything. And you and I and everything else is that. And innately we all know that. Because they say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the galaxies, that's the sky, that's the space. Everything is that.
Which we put different meanings into the concepts or the words. And the word is not the real. It's not the real. It's not the thing. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? You can't. Can the word fire burn your mouth? It can't. Can you cook with it? No. So the word is not the thing. But it's labels, patterns, shapes and forms. And we've got this label we put upon ourselves. On ourselves, persons. Or human beings. But where does that word person come from? It comes from the ancient language. English or Latin I think. It comes from the ancient language. English or Latin I think.
It comes from the ancient language. Or Latin I think it was. Ancient Latin. Persona. The mask. So when we've got this word now we put it upon ourselves. It's a conceptual image. A mask, we're obscuring our true nature. And everybody is already that. And they tell you in the text that our only problem is ignorance. When we hear that term we think we're dull or stupid. But it doesn't mean that at all. All it means is we ignore. All it means is we ignore what our true nature is. We ignore what we really are. And go into these concepts as false. Separate entity we believe ourselves.
So I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point to it and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. To see for yourself. Because when we're pointing out all the non-dual one without a second. Who is there? Separate and apart from you. That can teach you or tell you anything. Nobody at all. So you must be already that. But it's been obscured by this conceptual image and all the concepts that are going on around us. So I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm not speaking to that body mind that you think you are.
I'm speaking to that I am that I am. And that I am of course. I'm speaking about is the sense of presence. The knowing that you are. That's translating and expressing through your body. As the thought I am. Just to this. Nothing else. So that's what we need to look at. And so we start from the fact that you are already that. Because we start from behind the eight ball that you believe you are this person. And trying to become that. And trying to become something that can't happen. Because we've got the conceptual image that's blocking it. So we need to look at and investigate.
What other things do they tell us? The false cannot stand up to investigation. And so when you investigate and look into these things and see for yourself. And you've investigated so many things that you believed were real. Now you see that they're false. When you see if you investigate this idea that you are the second entity. The individual person. And you find that you can't find anything there at all. So the person is not the reality. It's just another vibrating pattern shape and form. And that's what innately you are. How did you come about? You'll say I was born. But there's anyone that can actually.
Can you remember your birth? People will say. How you doing? That was just a thing to save the seat for you. People will say I was born. But can you remember your birth? And you can't. People say they remember their birth. But they can't. And how could you? Because you weren't born with any words. How could you say I was born? If you didn't have any. How could you remember it? And so for the first couple of years of your life. Before you learnt any words. What were you saying then? Can you remember that? You can't. The functioning was going on. The living was going on.
And your parents were looking after you. But you didn't. But around about the age of two, two and a half or something like that. The capacity of reasoning developed. And that capacity of reasoning is very useful. But it's also self destructive. Because it's dividing things. What's the point of that? It's dividing. It's watching your mind and see how it divides all the time. As Shakespeare told you 400 years ago. There's nothing either good or bad. But thinking makes us so. And have a look at that. And see that it's effect. How do you think? Well the thinking is always good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating.
Positive, negative. Can it go on any other way? So you see. It's all these thinking. And you didn't learn words through about two and a half. When the capacity of reasoning came in you. And your parents fussing around you. Speaking to you. Told you little Johnny or little Billy or little Gene or whatever your name was. And you really learnt words like I or me. And other words. Every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to speak has been picked up along the way. All learnt. And in picking up the words. You took this sense of presence. And you took this sense of presence. To believe what you are.
Hinduism as I say. The Advaita is Sat Chit Ananda. Nama Rupa. They're the five factors of Hinduism. Sat is existence. Chit is consciousness. Ananda is loving to be. And the Nama is the name you've given yourself or you've been given. And the Rupa is the form. The body. The body mind. The Nama Rupa is Maya. It's illusion. It doesn't exist. They call it a phenomenal manifestation. All this manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly real. Appearing to be. Well go back and have a look. When did you begin if you think you began at birth?
Go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence. You call your father. In the air he's breathing. At the partner the air he's breathing. And the food he's eating. Enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. Now that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The innate intelligence knowing what to do with it. And the life essence. And the same in your mother. In the prana, the breath and the food. Enabled in that pattern another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form.
Now that ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the world of the uterus. And the sperm knew what to do. It swam to the ovum. Implying it wasn't just a blob of goo. But it was suffused with that innate intelligence. Knowing what to do. And when those two came together what happened? The genes and the energy and the food in essence that's in your mother. Enabled that cell to double. Those cells to double. And double again and forth the little embryo. The little fetus. Which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then? You think you're running the show.
You weren't doing anything. It was all happening naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously. Like it still is. Which we don't realise. We think we've got to do this and got to do that. But everyone's breathing right now and your heart's beating right now. You're deliberately doing it? Or is it spontaneously happening? So these patterned shapes and forms, these body minds appear. And the capacity of reasoning comes about. About two and a half or somewhere around that age. Might be younger, sooner in some people and later in others. But it comes about. And you take on this idea that I am this body when you learn words. That sense of presence translates through the mind as the thought I am.
That's the primary thought. I am. That sense of presence. When your parents tell you you're little Johnny or you're little Billy. And somebody will ask you today, who are you? You'll say, I am little Johnny or little Billy, whatever it is. You've taken that belief and that label. Instead of saying, I am the absolute. I am the great reality. I am the great perfection. I am the one essence that's patterned shapes and forms and experiences everything. I am that sense of presence. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing. It wouldn't be absolute. What can you take away from it? Nothing. It wouldn't be absolute.
So you see, you must be already then. And have a look at it. Existence, consciousness bliss. Nama rupa. Anyone who is not existing right now. And you'll say, no, I'm existing. Anyone who is not conscious or unaware right now. No, I'm not unaware. I'm not unconscious. Anyone who is not happy to be right now. You don't want to be dead, do you? You want love to be. So you are already that. Existence, consciousness, loving to be. And the nama rupa, the name and form, I say, are mire. So if you are already that, what's this idea of searching going on? You've taken on the belief that you are something separate and apart that needs to become something.
Have a look at that. Investigate time. Is there a past if you don't think about it? And is there a future if you don't think about it? You'll say, I was in the past. I'll say, well, try and live a moment ago. Try and live yesterday. Try and live in the past. You can't. And I was living in the future. I'm thinking about the future. You can anticipate and imagine the future. But when are you anticipating and imagining? Right now. If you are anticipating. In the past. You can think you're living in the past, but you can't go back and live yesterday. You can recall it right now.
But if you're not recalling it right now, or not got these concepts or thoughts coming up, where are you? Without either of those thoughts, you are this presence, awareness, which you can't negate. So that's the great mantra, I am that. This is that. Everything is that. And you know that innately. Because you say that's a chair, that's a tree, that's the flower, everything is that. What have we done to it? We've put concepts, words, ideas, images on it. And taken the word to be the real. And the Buddhists tell you that. They call it the great perfection. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. They give it to you in one sentence.
Is that awareness that you have? Anybody who's unaware right now, you know you're not. I'm aware. Is that a question? Is that awareness without any of the concepts, thoughts, or ideas, or mental constructs on it? It is the very life itself. And that's what Christ told you. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about that sense of presence. That's expressing with these concepts as the life. It's expressing as this idea or concept. There is only life, as the Sagada tells you. There's nobody who lives a life.
And life lives on life. For out of life more life comes. And the Sagada also tells you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. It'd be great, wouldn't it? All these troubles you get. If you really realise and recognise that, that nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. Or image in. Imagine. And realise that's what we're doing all the time. All these thoughts, that you're thinking and feelings and emotions are coming up, are all conceptual images. All imagined. We take them to be real. That you are already the absolute. You are already the real.
Not divided, because they say it's one without a second. Non-duality is one without a second, not two. Not one and the other. That would be two. But one without a second. So if it's not, that means it's not divided and it's not separated. Yet that's what we're doing at all these concerts. We're dividing and separating. The sense of separation is there. But what is wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Well have a look at that. You can't say it's good or bad. Can't say anything at all about it without a thought. But as I say, you're existing right now and thoughts come upon that existence.
You're conscious right now and thought comes up on that consciousness. So it's the thoughts which are discriminating it and making it good or bad. And so you need to investigate. Are you this body? Well you know you're not. Because you say my body. Don't you say my house? My car? My coat? My hat? Are you the coat? The hat? The car? Or the coat? You're not. Well looking in that direction, maybe you're not the body either. And have a look. What's this body made up of? This body's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Take the air out of your body. How long are you going to last?
Take the water. The body's 60% water. Take the fire, the body temperature. You sink it higher than that. I don't know what I said. I said water, did I? Take any of those elements out of your body, you wouldn't last very long. So that's all this body's made up of, elements. And all those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles and to pure energy. So this body, though it's peering solid and substantial, is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. The same with a sinkhole mind. You say my mind. Well if you think you've got a mind, show me the mind. Show me what this mind is.
And you can't, can you? You say my mind. And when you look at it, there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. So thought is mind. And what's thought? Thought is sound. Sound's a vibration. A vibration's a movement of energy. The thinking can be broken down into that intelligence energy. That's what I call it, intelligence energy. I don't use the term God. Because you can get confused with that term. Purely and simply because we all come from different traditions. And look at all these traditions. All of them have got a different concept of what God is. Hindus will say there's no God but God.
Muslims will say there's no, there's only God. God, Allah is his name. Put the name Allah on it. Hindus will say the thousand names of Vishu. They'll put a thousand different names on it. Christians will say it's omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, total presence, total intelligence, total power. The one essence, total. So it's not this big daddy up in the sky that people are concerned about. Because if you look in the Bible and say in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all that God is. All things were made by him, by the Word. Isn't that right? The chair, the table, the tree, the flesh.
The tree, the flowers, they're all words we put on. There was nothing made that was made without the words. And you can't discriminate any of these things if you're not putting the word on, the label. So this is what we're in bondage to. The thoughts, the concepts, the ideas. The bondage of self which seemingly creates a personal self. In all these scriptures, no matter which one it is, they'll say there's only one Atman. There's only one self. That's all there is. The one essence. The one intelligence energy that's patterning, shaping, forming, vibrating, patterning and experiencing as everything. And you and I and everything else is that.
And innately, don't you know that? Because you say that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the room the chair's in. That's the trees outside. That's the flowers. Everything is already that. Which we put discriminating words on. Which we put discriminating words or labels on. Which divided the indivisible. And separated the inseparable. Doesn't mean to say you need quick doing it. But if you know the truth about it. And that's the scripture saying. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from the belief that you are this person. You are this separate entity. I am that one.
Without a second. Because that's how they describe it. Non-duality. One without a second. Not two. When they say without a second, they're not talking the time second. They're talking about the other. One without the other. Non-dual. Only that. And in recognizing that, what will happen? Well, you'll relax into your true nature. Let it rest, as they say in some of the scriptures. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. Tell you to do that. It is a singularity. And if we contrive it and put all these concepts and divide it. Let it rest in that. That you are. And see what comes about then. When the Sagada tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination.
And we go around. We're imaging this, imagining this, imagining that. Have a look in the mirror. What do you see in the mirror? Reflections or images. Images in the mirror. Now you see your face in the mirror. Now go up and try and grab it. You can't grab the image because it's no thing. But you can't say it's not. So it is and it isn't. And that's what everything is in this manifestation. You can't say it is and you can't say it isn't. It's not separate. It can't be separated. But it appears to be. And that's what we've got to realize. Recognize the absoluteness of your true being.
You call yourself a human being. You call God, if you believe in a God, the Supreme Being. Take away that label human. Take away that label supreme. Try and separate the beingness without a label. Can anyone here right now say I am not? You can't say I'm not because you know that you are. And you are being that knowing. And that's how to express that in other terms. Being, knowing and loving to be. You're knowing that you be. You are the beingness. And you love to be. You don't want to be dead right now. So never lose sight of the fact that you are already that.
And that's what we do. We get lost in the concepts and ideas. And see how that works. Something comes up and you like it. Oh, I like this thought. I want to keep it. I want to keep the good things there that we like. We don't want them to go. Not realizing that everything in this manifestation, and I mean everything, and that's all that's made up of things, is transient. It's constantly changing. That body that you believe you are is changing right now. There is not one cell, but there are thousands of cells dying right at this moment. What are you doing about it? They're being replaced naturally and effortlessly.
You're not doing anything about it. You are not doing anything about it. But it's happening. Through the food you're eating, and the breathing, and the prana, and the air you're taking. The functioning that's going on, it's replacing those cells that's living you. It's being you. Take the label. If you call that being, you call yourself a human being, you call God the Supreme, take the label human. I've told you this a minute ago, didn't I? I'm repeating this. Anyway, so you know that. You are that being. You don't have to be. Being can never become anything. Because becoming implies a future time. If you're not being right now, you think you've got to become something, you're talking about a future time.
And you're into that concept of time again. So just let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. And we love to be. So something comes up and you like it, not realizing it's transient, it's going to change. We don't want it to change. We want to keep it there. Don't love all these things you love about yourself and the people around you and all the rest of it. We don't want them to go. We don't want them to change. Not realizing that it is transient. We don't want to be. We don't want it to go. So we try to keep it there. In trying to keep it there, what are you doing?
You're resisting it from going. Trying to hang onto it. And realize resistance is conflict. You're in conflict with it. You're at war with it, trying to keep it there. And conflict makes you uneasy. It makes you unhappy, fearful, depressed, guilty, anxious, and all these things. That's uneasiness is disease. Not at ease is dis-ease. So there's resistance, conflict, and disease going on in the body. Something comes up and you don't like. Oh, I shouldn't be thinking that. I'm a terrible sinner. I think that or I'm a... No, I'm unhappy. I shouldn't do this. Fever. Again, resistance, conflict, and then disease. So you see, while we're constantly in these thought-up things, we've repeated it and reinforced it so long, it doesn't leave much time for the stillness and the silence and the emptiness, the reality to appear.
So we resist it, trying to get rid of this one. So you're resisting it, trying to keep it there in the first place, and resist it from going, and then you're resisting it and trying to keep it there. That's what our life is made up of. And all that resistance is conflict, uneasiness, disease, fear, anxiety, depression, guilt, unhappiness, and suffering all over. And all the anger. We're suffering these things all the time. And you get little taste of your reality, but you go back into the old habits, and we're living our life more locked up into this believed-in conceptual me, instead of recognizing it's all the habit.
So you realize, me is the cause of all my psychological problems. It's only me that can be fearful. It's only me that can be anxious. It's only me that can be depressed or guilty. Me is the cause, and the effects are the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the fear, the unhappiness. That's cause and effect. What's cause and effect? Karma. It's all your so-called karma is cause and effect. But what if I ask myself this question? Can there be an effect if I'm not relating to the cause? If I'm not relating to me, this believed-in concept, where or what or how is the effect going to lodge?
Because it's all related to this conceptual image of me. So you can be free of your so-called karma, all your fears and anxieties and ideas of this is going to happen to me, and be full of it. So recognize that the believed-in conceptual image, nothing can trouble you except your own, imagination, is the cause of all my psychological suffering. What are you going to do? Wouldn't you relax into it? You can't grasp it with the concept, you're not going to get it with the mind, no matter how hard you try. And they tell you that too. They tell you you'll never get a peace of mind.
Never. If you're seeking for peace of mind, trying to get it, you will never get it. The peace of mind will come about when the mind is seen for what it is. Why do they tell you that? They call it in the scriptures, the peace that passes all understanding. The peace that passes all understanding because it cannot be understood or grasped with the concept, with the mind. So the peace is when the mind is not. And that's why you need to have to look at it, and recognize it, and settle back into it. And when it's grasped in its uncontrived singularity, let it relax into it.
That thought free, ever fresh, presence awareness. Just this. Nothing else. And, as I say, you know what it's like without a thought. But the first two years of your life, you had no thoughts. So that means, what would that tell you? That means that I was living prior to thought. Prior to mind. I was living. The life was going on in that body then, and the nine months it was forming in the womb, the life was going into it. So you're prior to thought, prior to the mind, yet we try to grasp it with the concept. And we fail. And so it is, and it says you're bound to fail.
Because it's non-conceptual. So I don't mean to say that you'll give up the conceptualized. Concepts will arise. Thoughts will arise. As you know yourself. What's your next thought going to be? You'll say, I don't know. And you don't know. Because thought comes up. But the thought will come up. And you'll say, I think. What do you do? And what have you done? You've related it to a subject. A thinker. I think this thought. And the thought you're thinking becomes the object. So thinking is to be divided into subject, object. Thinker and thought. But can there be a thinker without thinking? Have a look at that one and work that one out.
And you realize there can't be a thought without thinking. And can there be the thought without thinking? There certainly can't. So the thinking is the actuality, which is spontaneously arising, like your breathing and your heart beating. And the thinker and the thought, the subject, object, is this conceptual image we believe ourselves to be. It came with the seeing. You're seeing right now. Your eye doesn't say, look at this, Bob. Look at that. That's good. That's bad. Eye doesn't say anything. And the thought comes up and says, I see. But can that thought, I see, actually see? Shut your eyes and look around the room and see for yourself.
What can you see with a thought? Nothing. So it's the thinking, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, all spontaneously happening, is the livingness of you. But the thought, I see, I hear, I think, I taste, I smell, that's the conceptual image. So that's what we point to. And some of you here have got a good grasp of it. Some of you are just kicking off in it. And you might have thoughts or concepts. Others might have thoughts or concepts and ideas. If you've got any questions, ask them. No use coming and listening to it and going out with questions. You can if you like.
It's not going to be my concern if you stay locked in it for another 50 years. I did that initially. Kept saying back into it until it dawned on me, dawned on me or resonating with it or recognising it. And the truth became a fact. So you can all see. You can all get into it. Cat will see what's on the thing, the question, any questions there. You can ask questions or just listen to something. Well, do you want to say anything? Nothing at all today. I'll just say this. Welcome everyone who is online with us. We have 20 people apart from us in the group.
And we had a couple of comments. We had welcoming messages and we had, Caroline says it was a great analogy. About the cause and effect. So yes, they are people with us. There is appreciation of what they hear. Who was that? Caroline. Oh, I like her. And there are no questions. I mean, yeah, what a drama. No questions. Everything's clear. Yeah. And that's the point in which there is no conceptualisation going on. Because question is always there. Because question is always a concept. And if there is a question, there usually is some idea of a questioner, the me, who wants to know. So now there is a construct called self or ego that dies to figure it out, to work it out, to understand it, to grasp it.
And what Bob is saying right from the start, it is beyond the intellectual understanding. The answer is not in the mind. So the questions, we do, we encourage and invite all the questions because they often put that seeking mind at rest. But that's the only purpose because the answers that we give to questions are not the ultimate answers. They are just kind of a pacifying topping to the mind to get out of the way. Because the ultimate answer is the absence of questioner where there are no questions and no answers and everything is clear and undisguised, like no questions happening here. Oh, and on that note, there is a question.
Or perhaps it is a sharing and not a question. Good morning, says Tanya. And all lovely expressions of the one essence. And Tanya says, I read this yesterday and really showed no story thought conceptual image is true or real. What if stories didn't hold a promise? What if they are absolutely empty? If they were not believed to be of any value? What if they aren't as real or true as they claim to be? What if there was nowhere to get to? No one to get anywhere or anything? What if there was no gap, no distance, not to? No possibility? Nothing moving. If stories are clearly empty mental commentary, nothing moving.
Meaninglessness, meaningless interpretations. A program running on its own, extrapolating from that which can't be divided and rearranging a sequence, creating time out of thin air. What if no story is true or more true? If this is not a story, it is unknowable, there is no story. Yeah, seems like it was one of Bob's students who said, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Bob's students writing it. And Marco says, greeting and Primari says, thanks Kat and Bob, answers are fake as well as questions. Yes, yes, thank you. And thank you, Tania, absolutely. That's all the stories are. It's just distractions. Distractions from the obviousness of existence, from the delight of being, of being conscious and aware.
Now the drama shows up and steals the show and takes the attention away into the ideas that there is something wrong or there is something to achieve or there is something that should be fixed. And they're just distractions. They're nonsensical. There's no truth in that. The truth is that which never changes. And the truth is that in which all those dramas play out, come and go. Just like the sounds come and go, the tastes, the flavors, all of it. I've got a question. Yeah, yeah. I'll Yeah, that's OK. And we'll get the mic to Cliff. You want to give it to Cliff? OK. Drop back again?
Yes, just in time. Just in time. Oops. Question I'm sort of asking on behalf of those who might be here for the first time. But, you could say, say who's asking the question and you go well me I'm asking the question and who's me and we go well me I'm this body you know I'm cliff on here this is me just going to ask them ask Bob where would you start investigating that idea to have a look at that concept that you are that I am the body that that there's something real here that's separate well you get sick and tired of being sick and tired and you know we can't believe in you know this these religions and that would have looked at and not holding up so we look a little bit further and some of the other things will point out to to question, see who it's happening to.
It's pointing out the one, the non duality of it, the one without a second. And when you learn that the questioner is always a question. So the questioner and the question are both one and the same thing, both thoughts. Thoughts is a question and the questioner is a thought, thought up thing. So they cancel each other out when you look at the question. Where does that leave you? Present and aware, without putting any label on it. Being, yeah. But the labeling will still go on, but knowing the truth about it, you're not gonna be bound into it so much as you were. You see it, you know, some of the thought, you don't know what your next thought is, the thoughts come up and some of the thoughts will be acted on and seen, you know, and it might be a spontaneous natural response, telling you what to do.
So thought is not the answer, it's the enemy. It's gotta be understood, vibrates dualistically. So you gotta be careful what you latch onto. The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the thinking. Not I think or I say or I think. Put the I onto it. You're labeling it from the point of view of a separate entity, an individual. But you're naturally seeing right now, aren't you? You're naturally breathing, hearing, tasting, heart beating, hearing, hearing, fingernails growing. The natural functioning is spontaneously happening right in this immediacy. Thought, you know, I'm stuck in this and I'm feeling them. I've gotta find a way out with all the believes in, we've kept reinforcing for all those years and believing we love this person.
It's very hard to see through. But it moves you to look, that's why you're all here. It's moved you away from that into looking for something else. And this is either resonating or it's not. So it takes, you're aware it wants to take it the same way as it took me from where I had to go. Takes a lot of others, everybody else looks into it and it takes them, if open to it, to solidly say I'm gonna do this or I'm going to do that. And get the concept that it's me that has the power to do something. Well that's suffering. And also, just a second, that was a beautiful question that you write.
People, and welcome those who are here for the first time, who might want to have that question. And because we know you don't have questions anymore. But knowing that, and I remember Julia was saying that too, that hearing who asks the question, the answer is, eh, this body, the ego, this is who I am, that's me. And of course, the way Bob explained that, you know, yes you go beyond the labels. Another way to look at it is to see how the body is just a vehicle of expression, transmission. It's like your car, it drives you around. Or to see, Bob also says, this is, you say my body or my house or my coat.
Body's kind of a coat with all that cameras and hearing device and it kind of transmits. It translates and it interprets the pure signal, pure kind of potentiality of the life, pure energy. Because you have dead body. body you obviously see that it's not animated the currents the electricity or the or the energy doesn't run it that's one way of looking at it another one you see the body is not really separated from the environment you can't isolate the body from the environment so how could you be it like the body is constantly breathing exchanging the air the thoughts are depending on the environment so if you want to say I'm the body you have to include the whole universe in being a body yes that now is what I am this is my universal body the air that I'm breathing the water the fire the thoughts that the whole thing is the body this one is just a speaker but the whole universe is the body so that's that is when it kind of could be considered like yes who asks the question that the universe the question arises no one really in particular but this is a this is a great great starting point like yeah who wants to know who is asking and what else to identify with that is the obvious so you go this is me I am I am cliff and all this sort of stuff but that can be seen through as you say Bob and then to identify with the wholeness, to identify with being and the intelligence becomes the way to see through that, to realise that you're a lot more than just a piece of flesh and blood.
You are the intelligence energy, you are the universal body in other words. Another way to look at it is if I it's a great question though, it really is. I think we find ourselves in the beginning having never asked that question, you know. That's the most amazing thing. For me, we really get to this through that the privacy of one's own mind, really actually going in and really looking and seeing whether these things are actually true or not. And with respect to the body what I know, the only thing I know for certain beyond an idea is awareness or presence. These are things that are immediately available to me and they're self-evident truths.
Everything else is an idea on top of that. And the body is most definitely an idea on top of this sense of presence or awareness, is it not? So everything in the realms of conceptual thinking or ideas is subject to, you know, to, is fraught with danger because we have no concrete substance on which to operate with. When you, when we say I definitely am a body you fast come and you start to investigate that, you fast come to a place where you're not absolutely so certain anymore. For example, as Cat said, you know, we really are exchanging, the body is exchanging all kinds of things, all the ties, all the It's really just a sort of somewhat localised exchange of chemical energy.
And just communicating with the environment all around us. If you look at it from this point of view also, it's like, if I cut your arm off Cliff, are you still Cliff? Are you still you? Yes, well you would be, wouldn't you? You can cut my hand off and I'll still be Peter, in the sense of knowing who I am. So if I was the body alone, or with the mind, and I cut a part of myself away, wouldn't I feel diminished in some way? But that's not happening, is it? The other point I wanted to make was that when we start to look at what matter is, it's really quite amazing that we just can't, put our hands through matter, because matter is indeed 99.99999% empty space.
When we really look at it, it's really just a bunch of vibrating energy patterns. Isn't that enough? Isn't that enough to shape this foundational belief in being a body? Incredible. It throws us into this space then, doesn't it? Or throws us back on what we know to be certain, which is presence, awareness. Thank you. And the behaviour? Yes. Thank you. What I'd like to, everything that's been said, I acknowledge and experience, and it's a very real experience of life, but still there is the issue of taking care of the body. And living in the life. So that is always where my weak spot is, you know.
Just last week I sat for six hours, probably about five or six hours, completely still in presence. But my body got damaged from that. There was a sore back to contend with. Could you respond to that? Still we have the body, still we have a life. How do we navigate that with that full knowledge of the presence? Thank you. Go on, Bob. What was telling you it had a bad back? The body. Yeah. That's how it is expressing, let them know, don't sit in this position, or whatever it was, you know. It was telling you. What? It's the life essence. The body looks after itself.
It actually did communicate that this position was harmful. So it is a self-updating database which constantly... No? Sorry, it wasn't painful when I was sitting, only after. Yeah, sometimes it catches up. Still the same. Yeah. Yes. So see the intelligence, you know. You don't have to do the breathing, you don't have to do the heartbeat. The body looks after itself. And sometimes with the experimenting, it catches up a little later. But it's self-regulated after all. What's your experience, Bob, in overdoing things throughout life? Well, that's... I'll be learning the lesson a little bit later. How to live the life in the body? Yeah. It's a big conscious question.
Just relax into it. Instead of sitting in the mind and thinking, think we're going to work it out there. I understand. That's why you're sitting in silence, you know. Trying to... That should reveal itself in that. And, you know... In the life that we have in this body. So, you know, it's how to maintain this expansion and this spaciousness while attending to the basic needs of the body. What did you do about being born? And what's breathing you right now? Breathing your heart? Growing your hair and fingernails? And what's it all taking place in? That's what Pete was saying about space. I have to look at space.
Can you find a centre to space? You can't. Can you find any circumference or any boundaries to space? You can't. Can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? What would it be in? So... Space is the content. All these things are space, are the content of space. Space is no thing. It hasn't got any centre. No... No thing. And can something come from no thing? So it's all no thing vibrating into these pattern shapes and forms and appearing as things, but it's still all no thing. And the patterns, shapes and forms, it's all energy, it's all vibrating, but nothing really has ever happened.
It's only seemingly so. So how to live life, Bob? That was the question. How to live life and make money and look after the body? That experience. Yeah. That experience. Well, when I tried to work out life, I couldn't. But in letting it be, it happens by itself. It's still breathing. The heart was still breathing. These... All the body's falling apart. There's pain and things like that. Thoughts, concepts, everything expressing through it. But they all, when investigated, none of them has any substance or any independent nature or can stand on its own. There's nothing you can postulate outside of a space. It's all that space, what they call, what the Buddha called it, the cognising emptiness.
And he made the statement that emptiness is form. That emptiness is forming all these things and the form, he turned it round the other way and said, the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So you can really say it elikes and trusts life? Trust that it will work it out and it will learn and it will... Just like the way animals live and they, even though they don't have to worry about getting fat for the winter like bears and seals, they don't have to think about it. Life, the intelligence of life is guiding them and teaching them. Looking at it is that, you know, you know you did nothing about...
You know that you did nothing about being born and... And the breathing happens naturally and the food's being digested naturally and then the thought, I've got to go down the street and buy some food comes up as a thought. And then immediately you think, well, I thought that. Or I need to go to work to earn some money. And then you think, well, I have to do that. But all that's happening naturally too. But suddenly it becomes the idea that the person's doing it and then the separation occurs from, you know, suddenly, oh, it's my... I'm the one who has to live life when you're being lived really, you know?
There's something I've heard Bob bring up about what's differentiating this species from other species. One of the main differentiators really is this innate capacity that humans have of reasoning and thinking that is more developed in this species than it is in the cats or in dogs. My dog knows the word sit, you know, but she really can't... doesn't have the same capacity of reasoning that... and thinking that we do. But my dog can smell better than I ever will. And there's birds that you can see outside. They can fly. Can you fly? And they can see a mouse in the field a thousand feet away, but can you see the mouse...
or feet, I'm American... meters. We don't have that capacity. So it's sort of a defense mechanism that we have. That same defense mechanism that can save us can also kill us. It's sort of a double-edged sword in art with humans, though. You know what I'm saying? So, like, that thinking capacity that we have can heat...we can use it to make eyeglasses and binoculars and microscopes so we can see better, and we can use it to make airplanes so we can fly. And we can use this so that we can, you know, train the dog to smell for us or to hear for us or whatever.
Things that we can...you can use this reasoning capacity to survive as a body. You know what I mean? It's used that way. So, like, you may be a lawyer, and you might have to think for a living. You know what I mean? I mean, you may have to do that, but are you... is there a me that's actually firing this in the air? Is there a me that's actually firing this synapses that's making the thoughts occur? Or is that just happening? You know, it's really... I don't know if I just completely confused you with that one, but the... the thought just occurs. It's the belief that I made the thought.
It's the belief in the me that's doing anything that's really creating... I understand that, but still the life has to be lived. And the life... And the body's alive. And the body is going to be lived until it doesn't. You know? Thanks, Stuart. How does life, more life come? Yeah, life leaves itself. We are being lived. Yeah. The way I'd suggest we approach it is just to love it. Love the body. Because we don't really know what it is. It's like, even though we're having a sensation in the body, everyone has a lot of sensations in the body. Who is it? And what is the purpose of just deciding?
If you like, we are deciding what that is in truth, rather than simply not deciding and letting it be shown what it is. It's like, you know, I can go and buy the groceries and have a fantastic time. It just... In other words, it's not a... And the body can be... aching and I can experience all kinds of different things around what that ache could be. It's a very completely flexible, isn't it? We can conceptualize anything about what these things are, but in truth as we come back to the fundamentals, we realize that even this experience of body doesn't prove that I'm not that. It doesn't prove anything at all.
It just is another spontaneous arising of sensations and ideas all clustered together. So does that mean that you exist through the body but totally in the present moment all the time, and so that you're not choosing what you're going to do next or what's going to happen? Is that how you exist? Yeah, because I was going to ask a question about free will and do-I. Let's come to the question. Yeah. Yeah. So the thing that keeps coming up for me is like if there's doing happening, there's a belief that there's an I that's doing that and there's, I can't get past the concept of no free will and that the do-I, I have a belief that the do-I takes me away from the being as well.
Yeah. Yeah. And so how to be in doing. And choices without free will and without a do-I. See how it works. Yes. That's what you're going to do. And there is a lot of incredible discoveries when you actually witness that process happening. When you witness the choices or decisions. When you don't assume that there is a me who makes the decision or takes the choice, but you just in the empty mind, empty space without knowing what the situation is. But you're just in the empty mind, empty space without knowing what the situation is. You have the curiosity to discover how the choice happens. Let's say you go to the restaurant and you have the options to choose the pizza or the salad.
And now how is that decision arriving? You open, you're curious and you wait and you see what's happening. There are two thoughts floating around arising. One is emotionally charged and perhaps makes your mouth salivate. Another one doesn't. And now who made those decisions? How those thoughts. How those thoughts have arisen in that field of consciousness. When you see it happening, you see how really moment to moment that life without the doing, without the doer happens miraculously and you are literally mind blown. How the body knows what to do, how the decision arise, how the thought arises, how you are really being lived, how your hair are being grown, how your heart is being beaten, how your actions are being.
So those are the two things that are arising in consciousness. And you, this is not, this is not like disempowering depressive idea that, oh, I'm nothing, I can't even choose my own life, what am I doing here, I want to die. No. You discover that behind that force, that power, that is completely interdependent. Like your choice over pizza or pasta or salad is determined by the whole universe contributing. It's the mood. PMS perhaps, is the level of hormones, is your upbringing, is your childhood, is whether someone offended you as a child in the first grade with some, you know, it's all associations, is the weather, is the season, is the everything, the whole universe, all that omnipotence, omnipotence.
And when you really completely drop away the idea of doership, you realise that you're not separate from that omnipotence. In fact, this is who you are, this is what you are. You are the universe. You are running the stars and the suns and the cells and all of it. And that is not disempowering, it's fully empowering because being everything and being nothing is one and the same thing. Because there is an existence, there is a being, you can't deny that you are. And that being is not separated from anything. So you can't say, oh, I'm nothing. Who says that? There is something there to even say it.
So you are not the doer, individual doer in the individual body. But you are life behind all of the doing, the omnipotence, omnipresent. You can experience the presence of one body through the body because of the senses. You can feel your skin here, you can't feel the skin here. But that's just a sample because the presence is not something that you can just say, oh, I'm nothing. You can't say, oh, I'm nothing. You can't say, oh, I'm nothing. You can't say anything. You can't say anything. You can't say anything. And so, the presence is not because it can be experienced. The presence is the pure potentiality.
In the body, it is realized. Outside the body, it is still there. It's just not being actualized or realized. So initially, it sounds like a bad news. Oh, I don't have free will. But ultimately, this is the liberation from any confines of doing anything wrong ever in your life, of having sense of guilt because, you know, even if Even if you think of terrible people who harm others, this is also the whole universe who created them this way. Deep in the heart, they did not know any better and they couldn't have done anything else if they had different mothers, different country, all the Hitlers and all the other guys.
They wouldn't have done what they have done. So they are not the doers. And that's a good news of, again, if I'm not the doer, nobody is a doer. So if someone spit at me or bully me, they know the doers. I can't hold it against them. I can just see the field of energy dancing in the war, love, joy, sadness. And if that's impersonal, well, of course, the body will still have preference for pleasure over pain. That's no brainer. The body will prefer to be fed than to be hungry and to be warm than to be cold. But that's just how it is constructed.
And that's how it makes the whole world perpetuate. And this is how it learns and how it survives in the world, how we don't really have to worry about it because it is already programmed to look after itself. And it doesn't get it right. Of course, in the short term, they are wrong decisions and right decisions because this computer is constantly updating its database by the experiences it went through. But when it is impersonal. It is really mind blowing. It is really fun to watch, even if they are day and night, pleasure and pain and winter and summer and up and down and all that.
But those are really great questions about the doership because initially giving the credit where credit is due is a good practice. We don't advocate practices because there's no one to practice. But it is a way of recognizing. OK, this has happened. This body has barked at someone or kicked someone or broke a glass. But this is give the doership where the credit is due. The life has orchestrated the whole thing so that arose or that happened. Keeps it in the same. Question quite simply called it a choiceless awareness. You're not unaware right now, are you? No. You're not unaware. No. I'm not unaware. Yes. That what comes up, the choices naturally come up.
The choices are made, the deeds are done, but there's no doer. They're all, it's all spontaneously happening. Spontaneously happening, yeah. Yeah. Julia, you wanted to say something? Yeah, I just wanted to say that just noticing what's occurring and the doer, the doer, the doer, and doership, it's this big label. But underneath that is just like the arising and subsiding of things like fear or control or not knowing or whatever it happens to be. And just having some affectionate awareness about what's arising. Beautiful. Just gently noticing, not having to do anything. Just can be, can evoke really tremendous compassion. That's the key to it. I just think affectionate awareness.
Affectionate awareness. Have it warm towards yourself. Love yourself a little bit. And you can't help it when there is no preoccupation with the self, when there is no self obsession, so-called. You can't help it but be really, wow, it could have been nothing. And it really is nothing. It just appears to be that incredibly colorful sensory world. Of appearances. As Peter was saying, empty space, vibrating into all that stuff that mind or brain interprets into that miracle. So this understanding of no free will can end the need to forgive. Because if you can see, there's still an ability to respond. There is still a responsibility.
There is no response-ability. Did you get that? Let's do it slower. Response-ability. Response-ability. Okay. No one responsible. With no one responsible, there's no one to blame. And with no one to blame, there's no one to judge. There's no one to judge. No one's needed to be forgiven. Everything is allowed to be as it is. Yeah. It's like... And it doesn't mean that judgment doesn't... No! Judgment happens. And then when you catch yourself, like sometimes it can happen, you can catch yourself in the judging. It's so easy to go back to, all right, this is, I don't know, this is what happens here. I'm just saying.
Okay. When it's caught, sometimes it's not caught, but when it's caught, it feels, I feel it here. It's... Well, I end up feeling... And I don't enjoy that. I more enjoy this feeling of affectionate awareness. That is much more enjoyable. So I noticed that, and then I'm like, oh, there must be... Who gives a crap here? Who's trying to fix this? How could they be... Oh, yeah. And then I'm back in this... As it is, as I am, as they are, it's all... Nothing could be anything other than what is. That you couldn't be anything other than what you are. And when I look at like the people, I guess, or the people situations who I would have said in the past, anyway, hey, did this or whatever.
If I was them, I would have done the same thing. I would have had to because like... And they, how could I do anything different? If they were me, they would have done what I had done. You know, does it make sense? Because whatever thoughts are showing up right now couldn't have been any other way. But most of my life, I was programmed to believe, no, I could have been. There was a belief I could have, which is bullshit. No, you couldn't have. I love to throw out this little example of why didn't I start Facebook in 2001? Man, make it the way it is today.
I'd be a billionaire. If I could have, I would have maybe. But I couldn't have. How could I have? That thought wasn't even thinking that way. I think everyone and everything is doing the best they can with the resources they have in any given moment. I don't know if this is non-dual, but it just... The most overlooked resource is the presence or the absence of a thought. I don't know if that made any sense. I don't know if that made any sense, but I found that to be... I have a few comments. Did anyone say something, Marge? Not everyone. There's only one. Yeah, only one.
Yeah. I have a few comments to include from people who are with us. And Mirela says, when I close my eyes, I am nothing and nowhere, only floating sensations. But when I open my eyes, I snap back into the body. Help. Well, what does Ms. Agadala say about that? When I know I'm nothing? This is wisdom. When I know I'm everything, this is love. And between the two, my life flows. That's what's happening. It flows between being nothing, being everything. Wisdom, love. And snapping into the body. The feeling of being a body is just another floating sensation. Like you say, you close your eyes. There are floating sensations of touch.
sensations of touch, smell, taste, whatever. When you open your eyes, there's just one more floating sensation. Sensation of being all legs sticking out or arms sticking out, face you can't see. Even when you look in the mirror, you don't see the face, you see the reflection of it. So just see if you could include the sensation of being the body or being in the body as just another passing phenomena because there are times in the day, through the day, when that sensation isn't present or it isn't attended to. Anyway, there will be other people answering to it. Artur says non-duality is the great laxative for those who suffer from constipation of concepts.
Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. Thank you, Artur. That's very nice. That's very lucid. Who says it? Artur. Very lucid, enlightening comment. We love it. Everyone loves it. Saying of the day. Saying of the day, yeah. I'm going to, if you don't mind, Artur, I'm going to call that talk. The great laxative. Yes, that is what I'm going to put on YouTube. And Tanya says, with no past or future that leaves no room for a me there can be the anticipation or expectation that the recognizing that you are that is going to come as a thought and that means you are enlightened whatever that means laughing out loud or there is an expectation of always feeling peaceful and in bliss but everything is that stop listening to thoughts labels and you are not responsible for thoughts as Bob would say just don't go there thank you Bob for pointing that out yes primarily thank you that's beautiful absolutely look at the natural world look at the trees sometimes it's raining and windy and Bob said this morning the tree that doesn't bend in the wind it snaps so even the tree which is a Buddha nature it never developed the ego it doesn't have to wake up the dream of being separate self and it's still experience cold and rain and warm and hot and heat and fires and disasters all the nature is duality we cannot avoid the duality the duality the good and bad the pleasure pain they will be coming the suffering and resistance to it that's an option that doesn't have to be there they can be enjoyed as the you know like Julia pointed out once you know you can't be happy with the things that you're doing and you can't be happy with the things that you're doing and you can't enjoy the pleasure if you don't experience pain you can't enjoy joy if you don't know the sadness I know but you keep bringing it up primarily says to Mirela same here and that is what is happening as Bob said throughout as Bob said thoughts have no power all is okay yeah just don't believe the thoughts the stories are just stories now Mirela is answering to her comment on closing the eyes she says thank you Kat you answered my question beautifully before even reading it oh it has been addressed the body is the whole universe and I am is witness yes I am is that is who you are really the bodies yeah I'm a nut says we are not the what is the eye of the eye eye of the eye and beautiful Mirella lots of love and Aminat also says as the vision is so is the world we are prior to a viewer view viewer vision are happening in mind and he also says impersonal making infinite fun drama of personalities thank you cut and JB says beautiful pointing regarding no doership and that's it for the for the online comments so anyone I had to practice something else because I was one of the beginning put my hands but it went longer so when Julia was saying something with I don't know what you're saying I don't know what you're saying I don't know what you're saying you said something um or anyway Julia was saying something and then I could see myself there because I was writing and like when they don't when they're gonna go notice then I want to say something as well and then I was relaxing back to and just be with it if that makes sense so um what I was wanting to share in the beginning was that um when you spoke about that you know the body and it was in the beginning of the video I was like oh my god I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I was sitting here and then I was focusing on this topic and then I realized yes I'm not my body and then I just was sitting here and then I felt like um all my thoughts and because of my thoughts the emotion went away so like nervousness or what I'm thinking about certain things was not there anymore and then I thought oh it's just a room with a bunch of people sitting and it's interesting to see and there wasn't any thoughts then and everything occurred very differently and I felt like more free because I okay I can say whatever I want because it's not my body like it's sort of like there was no limits in my thoughts or what I was thinking I could say or because it was it's just not me anyway it's just my body I mean what is saying it or whatever so um that was quite interesting and I was staying in that state and then what makes me and that's different topic there was more when you when you share that there's different thoughts in the conceptional world like okay there's a concept like I have and and my other thought is a concept as well um how do I ask that question um yeah it's back on I mean I'm still uh back on that same topic I was the last two weeks um and I was trying to work out and I was remembering what you're saying it's okay to stay in that state of uncertainty and my mind or I usually tend to clear things I want to things clear everywhere in the conceptional understanding like okay that's clear I can move on that's clear I can move on and so on and this is not happening and then my thoughts go to the point that if I think one thought and then I feel desire of let's say pleasure um and it's not there I have the feeling of desire but in the same time that's a thought and in the same time my other thought is like what if I do that it will be like that and then I'll be back to point where I'm in so either why my thoughts like my logical mind says if I if this is happening then the reasons why I'm not why I'm stepping out of the situation is because I don't know how to describe it um why I'm stepping out of this situation is because of what what actually happened so it feels like it goes in circles and and then and then I was thinking what is the natural decision or natural being of if the thought comes I feel that why wouldn't I just address it but then it's this thought so I'm not too sure what the natural decision would be like when you said it will arise when you make the decision between the four so that's my question I mean that's what I'm sort of I am yeah just one question again Joe ask yourself that what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it nothing have you stopped breathing I'll stop beating here and think they'll stop growing food life's going on all this happened this thought has stopped and you can't say it's good bad pleasant you won't wouldn't do you know you won't work it out in the mind and the going in circles where are you noticing it from you know going in circle who knows that how is that being known you can see the whole process going and running realize that's part of the circle to Joseph I love you how could you great yeah I love that I love your mind the way you you really quite really good at you know lining everything up that's going on in the mind really lovely however you know the question I asked you last week was does it lead you anywhere I mean what is your experience after after lining in analyzing every little thought and thing that stimulus that comes up in your mind in this vast array what is your experience after that you know in other words do you ever arrive at somewhere where you're completely peace or you just you just get more of the same which is that you know questioning what's going on I don't know what's going on and I'll analyze lign up all these things and and I'll come back around and I mean I'm generally asking you do you ever arrive at something concrete so there is moments where I'm going to thoughts and go around and then I thought okay that's what I'm trying to explain there is a moments where I think okay that's the right thing what I'm doing because if I wouldn't do that then I wouldn't know what's going to happen so if I not step out of the situation then this situation won't be solved as well as I will know if that person would be definitely interested in me or it's just fulfilling their desire what they've been saying so so by me seeing the pattern of the individuals in that situation and I stating this patterns and I was I'm pretty sure that was understandable because I put it in writing so it could be me read it there wasn't any more question coming from that person so therefore if I would leave it how it is and what you're saying it's okay to be uncertain I think that's probably what my thing comes up again because I thought okay to be uncertain because I can focus on myself or what I want to do and and I think that's probably what my thing comes up again because I it's okay to be uncertain because I can focus on myself or what I want to do and then it comes up again or I want to be certain again and then it comes back so it's everything happens also that fulfillment where I say okay it's okay like this and I feel like good about it so but then next day the thought comes out and then just fabulous and we're using up every last skerrick of the you know potential that you you might actually find an answer by line up all these things but you know the nothing that's that's good because in the end of the day you know you will come around to the recognition that that was absolutely fruitless you must because everyone does eventually yeah and that'll be a wonderful thing because you have exhausted all the possibilities you realize it's always uncertainty complete and total uncertainty never there has been anything other than uncertainty the magic of uncertainty and I would like to share something that may be helpful maybe not because you really as Peter pointed out you really good you really precise and you really kind of meticulous about pointing down and really seeing the functioning of the mind and I remember I went to quite a few meditation retreats and some of those retreats and I meticulously follow the instructions of how to you know focus on the different parts of the body and sweep that awareness up and down and do all the things that were required to do and then I ended up in India where I went to the retreat in which very similar parts of the meditations every single meditation following watching the breathing watching the thinking watching the bodily sensation were followed by a simple instruction try to locate who is watching try to see who is aware of that mind activity or that breathing or that bodily sensations see who is witnessing that and see if you can locate it because if you can then see who is aware of that location and then basically just instead of following on the content of consciousness follow at the source of consciousness like who is witnessing that activity of the mind how is that activity of the mind known because if you if you ask who if you find anyone then ask yourself who found that one obviously until you really dissolve into the open field of consciousness in which the content is showing up coming up and going and now this is we had a conversation yesterday with one of the guys who are with us online and she reminded me because that's what usually happens in the pointing pointing is creating a space in which the recognition arises spontaneously Bob cannot give you the understanding because it is not a thing that can be given but what what's the lesson lady was actually bringing up when she was talking about her arising desires for pleasure or comparison that some people might be more happy or less happy because they do this or the cause and effect and blah blah blah.
And she says, you know, this is all the story in the mind, but there is heart and the heart knows, deeply in the heart there is something known beyond the observation of the content of the consciousness because the mind observes the content, the things, it focuses on the things. But there is a heart, the knowing of the heart is completely contentless. Heart doesn't bother with objects, with feelings, with pleasures, with thoughts, none of it. The knowing of the heart is the knowing that I am, that I'm present, conscious, the loving to be. It is completely thoughtful. It is the, and it is undeniable. So when you ask who knows the content, who watches the thoughts, who watches the circles, the coming in circles, and you step back and you see the knowing of it is completely beyond the content.
It's like the, Bob is showing up, you know, quoting Buddha that form is emptiness and there wouldn't be any forms possible if not for the emptiness. Because the emptiness is the emptiness. The emptiness is prerequisite of the form. It is the other side of the coin. So there wouldn't be any thought if there was no consciousness. There wouldn't be any formation if it didn't appear on something. So they're really not separable. They're completely interdependent. But instead of focusing on the thing, you go back to that presence awareness that is contentless. See who is looking. Who knows about the survival? Who knows about the survival? Who knows about the circles?
About the looping? Who feels? Who is aware? And put your heart into that because that's the reality. That is the truth that never changes. That is the miracle of being. And if you stay in the heart, there won't be a story of the mind because the mind will say, yeah, yeah, but come on, that's boring. So what? I mean, you know, mind has all this colorful dramas going on. That's really exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the mind is just so complete. And there is no physical reality. It's like you can see the things that you like. You can see the things that you don't like.
And you can imagine, you know, you can imagine anything you want. You may imagine terror, or bliss, or whatever. But for the heart, there is no sensations. That is like Bob is calling pre-sense. Presence is pre-sense. It's prior to senses. It's pre-sensory. There is no taste, no smell, nothing, really. It's a very, very subtle sense of joy, or love, or bliss, but so subtle that you can't even say. I don't know. say it is the love of being as the opposite of the absence of a love of being because it isn't sensory it isn't graspable but that yeah what would the the lady we were talking about yesterday was saying heart knows go to that knowing and don't let the thoughts distract you and if they distract you recognize them for what they are they destruction the miracle of isness of pure beingness joy of existence the un and ineffable beyond description miracle of presence of awareness is there is there is going on all the time is just to be recognized and it is shining forth the moments the distractions are not given all of the attention even if they're given some attention but not all of the attention it just shine for the trap is the thinking goes on and you identify with the thinking and think I've got to stop this or I'm going to change this or once I understand it it'll be different but just if you can step aside from being the thought just watch it watch it happening and realize without the thought you're fine it doesn't really matter but the more we get preoccupied and identified with the thoughts it becomes painful there's resistance conflict and disease so you said that like if the attention isn't in those thoughts and the natural presence like shines through so what is attention then because obviously attention can highlight some aspects and not others and who's making that happen?
Yes, beautiful, great question. All awareness. Yes, attention is a movement, it's a movement of consciousness. It can, Bob has this beautiful, oh you go on. He's got this beautiful little advice, the only advice he ever gives because if you were the space or sky like awareness, space or sky is always totally relaxed. So be who you are, as you are, be completely relaxed and that means relaxing the focus. So having the five senses wide open and unfixated awareness, meaning that not, because the way we live, most of the attention goes into imagination, into thinking and engaging with what is not present right now. Like I think about what I'm going to do next, that's not happening.
Or some people who are not here or some situations that are not here because they were or they would be, something that is not happening. And this is the human condition, living in the imagination, in a daydream. But when the attention is relaxed and the hearing is happening, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, and the attention is kind of scattered around all the senses, there is not enough free attention to construct the imagined self. That translates the world as relative to me. And that imaginary self-obsessing capacity of the mind, that narrative, subsides. You're not feeding it with attention. Yeah. I have another question. Yes. So I'm currently doing postgraduate studies at uni and there's a lot of intellect and I'm wondering how you navigate that level of...
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know how you navigate that level of thinking and concepts with focused attention for long periods of time without, I don't know. Intellect. You can't collect your... Yeah. You utilise your mind. You absolutely do. I mean, this is the point. Instead of letting mind use you and take you for the horrible trips of suffering, you let life utilise it. When the intellectual capacity is necessary, it is being utilised. See how you're not the doer of it. See? Yes. And I have just a couple of things. Okay, you, Peter, say, and I'll read a couple of those. Yeah, I just...
And we are over time. Having been involved in that sort of thing myself, I realise that as this sort of appreciation of life as it really is, so to speak, became more seated in me, it just became particularly obvious that all kinds of different creative things spring up all over the joint, in my mind, in nature. Lots of things sort of really broadly opened up. So I would say, you know, you might find yourself rewriting the whole thing in terms of, you know, these brilliant ideas that just start flowing in. It's happening. Beautiful. And I have just a couple of comments from people who are with us online.
I don't want to... I'm going to leave it for the next week and then we can all go for lunch. So Tanya says to Peter, beautiful Peter, thought-going circles doesn't lead anywhere. You never arrive at the peace that passes all understanding with thoughts. Absolutely. And also, thank you also to Bob. The answer really is not in the mind. I was going to ask a question today. Not as the desire to ask a question, but then silence, just being. I realise the questions are endless, but sitting here, wanting for nothing, desiring nothing, still all is well. Thank you for the clarity around the doership and the body.
Love you all. Thank you, Tanya. And John says, beautifully said, to point the identity of the thinker so that I may discover the truth of myself. The truth is whole and duality together. The false eye does not abide. The false one does not strike. It does not assail. It is the false one that we call the false. It does not say, it is not equal. In this truth. And Greg says, The ego always wins. How does one stop that? And John says, What does the ego win? Yeah, good question. And losing the winner says, Arm enough. And Greg says, Always confusing. And Primali says, Can't express in words.
And then we have all the thank you messages. meeting and that's it so thank you everyone he goes when I go oh that's a beautiful answer he goes when I go let's go