This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Julia, Tanya, Chris, Morning, Bobby, Jane, Andy, Ross, Peter, King, and Bob. Okay. Well, what we talk about is what in Hindu, as soon as they call it, Veda. And Veda meaning non-duality. And to describe non-duality, they're saying it's one without a second, not two, or nothing other than one. And it means that, hey Michael, everything is that. So I can't teach you anything, can't tell you anything. All I can do is point toward, and ask you to look to where we pointing to, to see for yourself. No matter what you might believe, nobody can teach you anything. Nobody can tell you anything, because when you look at it into it, all these body and minds, are the one essence.
Patterning, shaping, forming, it's all the one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming. experiencing and expressing as everything. So you can only be that. And that's what they call the great mantra. I am that. And innately you already know that. Because you say, that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the space in the room. That's the walls outside. That's the trees. That's the flowers. Everything is that which we put labels on. And that meaning it's one without a second, not two. And they describe it as Sat Chit Ananda, Nama Rupa. They're the five factors. Sat is existence. Chit is conscious. Ananda is loving to be.
Nama is the name we've been given. Rupa is the body, the name and form. And they tell you that name and form, body, mind, are Maya. They're illusion. And they call it a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So all this manifestation is appearance only. It's only seemingly so. Not only that way I use it. I say it. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to the body, mind, conceptual idea, have a better. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. To that sense of presence that translates and expresses through the mind as the thought I am.
Just to this and nothing else. So it needs to be looked into and investigated to see for yourself. And they tell you that the false cannot stand up to investigation. And that's a fact too. Because so many things out there you've believed to be so. And when you've investigated, they've fallen apart under the investigation. If you go down to the ocean and I'll say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. What would you say to me? You'd say, don't be an idiot. Don't be stupid. Because you know that the sea's not blue. Yet it appears to be blue. But you've investigated and said for what it is.
And that was the same as when people stood at the seashore years ago and they looked out where the sea and the sky met. It looked like the edge of the earth. And people were told, don't go out there, you'll fall off the edge of the earth. People believed it. But who would believe it in this day and age? Nobody. Because it's been investigated and seen through. The blue sky, go 30,000 feet up in the plain, there's no blueness coming into the plain. It's not blue. Look out there and the blueness is always further out. It's only appearing to be. The colours in a rainbow, rainbow, seemingly colours in the sky.
When that's investigated, it's only the sun shining through the mist and forms a background of colours. And the clouds and the sky. I've got a crystal in that window over there. When the sun moves around there in the afternoon on this wall it breaks up into colours. I try and grab a colour off the wall, you can't, because there's nothing there. And look in the crystal, there's no colours in the crystal. So when you investigate these things, and not how they seem to be, and when we look at this concept or idea we've got. as the person. Now when I said Satyajit Anandana Marupa investigated that.
Anyone of you who is not existing right now, you'll say, no, I'm existing. Anyone who's not conscious or is unaware right now. No, I'm not unaware. I'm not unconscious. And anyone who has not happened to be, you'll say, no, I'm happy to be. I don't want to be dead right now, so I'm happy to be. So that's Satyajit Anandana Marupa. That's what it is. And you are that already. Isn't that so? So you see that the search itself, the belief in search, becomes the problem. Because you're trying to become something that you already are. And it won't work. It can't work. So it needs to be investigated and seen.
But the idea that you are this person, this separate entity, where does that word person come from? It comes from the Latin persona, the mask. So that means if we believe we are a person, we take ourselves to be this conceptual image, a mask of concepts which are hiding our true nature. And they tell you, it's all, everything is already that. And we've got these conceptual images. And they call it a cognitive image. And we think we are cognising emptiness. We think we cognise the emptiness. We don't. The emptiness has that capacity of cognising. That pattern, shape and form we call it, that capacity of cognising or knowing.
And the Buddha told you about a thousand years ago, or somewhere where it was, might have been a couple of thousand, whenever, who cares? Take it away, the thought process. Take it away, the thought process. Take it away. Take it away. Take it away. He told you that emptiness is form. Then he turned around and said form is emptiness. So you and I and everything else in this manifestation are forms. And so we are emptiness, actually emptiness, appearing to be something substantial, solid and real. When did it all come about? Came about with the learning of words. How many words were you born with? Can you remember your birth?
You can't. People say they can remember their birth, but how can you remember when you had no words? How could you say I was born without a word? You couldn't. So with the seeming birth, after about a couple of years, two, two and a half, somewhere around that age, with the capacity of reasoning, we learnt words from our parents. Our parents fussing around us, told you little Billy, little Johnny or Gene or whatever your name might be. And you learnt other words fussing around them. You learnt words like I and me. And naturally you learnt I am Gene. Somebody asks you who you are, you'll say I am Gene.
Or I am Billy or Bob or whatever your name might be. So we've taken ourselves away from the actual reality that we are into the conceptual image. Believed in it. And in that belief, that's another thing we have. Look, we've got all these beliefs, words and beliefs and concepts, ideas, images. A belief is not the actual. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. It means we haven't reasoned it out, we haven't worked it out. And when you look at it, really, you can't work it out in the mind. An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason.
Acceptance of an alleged fact. An alleged fact. Not the true fact, but an alleged fact. Without positive knowledge or proof. So when you say I am Bob or I am Billy, that's what we've taken ourselves to believe. This person, this seeming conceptual image. Because the person is not the reality. So with this personal idea and all these words we've learnt, and realise that every word you've ever spoken or likely to speak has been picked up along the way. Been learnt. Required. And you've got to look at these words and see that the word's not the real. Take the word water. Can you drink the word?
You can't. Take the word fire. Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with it? Can you cook with it? Can you burn your mouth with it? You can't. So what's this word I or me? Well, naturally we take it to be, without investigation, this person, this body, mind. This is I or this is me. But the word's not the real. The description is not the described. The map's not the territory. So these words are not real. They're not the actual. But yet we've taken on all these conceptual images and living through and by them. And so we've taken ourselves to be this person, this separate entity, this individual.
And when the capacity of reasoning starts, when this is about two, two and a half, this capacity of reasoning, we start to learn words and we recognise it. We believe that I am me. We look out there and say, that's not me. Well, that's not I. That doesn't fit the I or me. So that's not me. It's not I. So what have we done? We've set up a sense of separation from all this things around us. If that's not me, it's not our I, that must be something other than I. And so we've moved away from the absolute into the relative. If there's me and other, what are we doing?
That's two. There's not one without a second. There's not the individual natural essence that you are. And with that sense of separation comes all your psychological problems, fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy. Because little Johnny looking out there and saying, that doesn't fit me, he doesn't know what it is. So he's a bit anxious about it, a bit fearful about it. You can do things to him. And so this continues. And we've got all these dualistic concepts or ideas. And Shakespeare told you 400 years ago that nothing is either good or bad. But thinking makes it so. And what's the way you think?
You're always thinking dualistically. If you're not in the past, which is memory, it's the future, which is imagination, anticipation. Within that range, it's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. Or this, that, or whatever, how, why, thin, thick. Watch your mind and see how it functions. Test it out for yourself. And realise that you're doing this, functioning in this way. But then we take on all this psychological suffering. And what happens then? Then we believe. That there's something greater than ourselves, a power greater than ourselves, a higher power, which we get attuned and we're into it, will relieve us of all these burdens.
They call it God. And I don't use the term God here. Because all these great traditions that believe in God have a different concept about what they believe God to be. And so we get locked into these conceptual ideas and images, what it is. I use the term intelligence energy, which is the godliness of you, if you like. When I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellects. Because there are different degrees of intellect in this room. Some of you are a lot smarter than this. A pattern will happen, ever, ever like it to be, and some mightn't be so smart. All different patterns, shapes and forms, with that intelligence.
I'm talking about the same intelligence. It's not your intellect. The same intelligence that's rolling the earth around the sun. That the earth is rolling around the sun and doing what it's doing. It's amazing intelligence that's allowing it to happen. The seasons are coming and going. The tides are coming in and out. Seasons are coming. I've said the seasons or whatever it is. It's all vibrating, dualistic all the time. But it's that same intelligence, that's rolling the earth around the sun, and it's breathing right now. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. All naturally, spontaneously and effortlessly. But we think, because things are not going so well, all these conceptual thoughts and ideas are arising, and it's me, it's not this or not that.
We've got this conceptual image about it. And so we become fearful and anxious and unhappy. Have a look at how that functions in your life. Well, something comes up and you like it. A good thought. But when you look at it before you start to do that, ask yourself right now and have a look, and a lot of you have seen it, what's your next thought going to be? And you'll say, I don't know. And you don't know what it is. But thoughts come up. And you say, I think. As soon as you say, I think, what have you done? You've formed a thinker, a subject.
And this thinker is thinking your thoughts. And what are the thoughts? Thoughts become the objects. So the thinker and the thought are subject-object. Dualism again. But can the thought, I think, actually think? When you look into it, you see the thought, I think, can't think a thought. Can't think itself. It comes up. So the thought, the thinker, becomes the subject and the thought becomes the object. Dualism. So they're taking place. The thinking is the actual. The same applies to the seeing. Does your eye tell you, I see? You're seeing right now. And the thought, I see, comes up. Your eye's not saying, look at this, Bob, look at that.
Your eye can't say anything at all. It can't tell you, you see. But the seeing's happening through the eye. And it's the thought, I see, the subject, taken on board, and I see the chair, the table, and it becomes the object. So the functioning, the seeing and the hearing, tasting, the touching, smelling, the feeling, the experiencing and experience are all dualism. But there's seeing, there's hearing, there's tasting, there's touching, there's smelling, there's thinking. The eye-NG on it is something that's happening in this moment. And it comes up spontaneously and naturally because you don't know what your next thought is. The thought was arisen. So the seeing is happening.
So the hearing is happening. Now is this working in your life? Now we've taken on this belief that I see, I hear, I think, I'm unhappy, I'm fearful, all relating to this belief in me, this conceptual image. Now, how does this function in your body? Well, something comes up, and I like it. A thought comes up, an idea, well, this is good. Or something pleasant. And we won't like the good things, and we don't want them to go. And what we don't realise is that everything is changing. It's transient in this manifestation. It's all constantly changing. It's spontaneous. It's got no duration. When you investigate time and have a look at that, you'll see it's so.
Time is a concept, a mental concept. It's transient. When is now beginning? It's beginning right now. When's it ending? Right now. You can't live yesterday, and you can't live tomorrow. The actual living is this presence awareness that's happening right now. So we've got this duality, actually. If something comes up, and I like it, and we don't want it to go, not realising it's transient, it's going to change, and it's something we really love, we don't want it to go, so what do we do? We try to keep it there. We resist it from going. Trying to keep it there. Resistance is conflict. If you're resisting anything, you're in conflict with it.
And then this conflict makes you uneasy, because you're not understanding it. And the uneasiness comes from the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, the unhappiness, the depression. All these psychological suffering comes about from this resistance. And Wei Wei Wei told you something, a Zen monk, I think years and years ago, he says, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say and everything you think and everything you do is for yourself. And he says there isn't one. There is no personal self. There's the one self, as they tell you in all the scriptures, there's only the Atman self. Not a personal self. So relating to this personal self, you become fearful, anxious, depressed, guilty, shameful, unhappy.
Something comes up, and you don't like it. So you can't realise that the things you like are going to change. We fix that. Now something comes up that you don't like. And you don't want this one. This is a bad thought. I shouldn't be thinking this. This is wrong. So what do we do? We resist it again. Trying to force it out. And again, conflict. And again, anxiety, stress, guilty, all these things together. And that resistance, all the conflict, it's only, look at it all and see, all this psychological suffering that the conflict brings up, the uneasiness, the disease, look at it. See it's all vibrating in the opposites.
It's good and bad, pleasant, painful. It's all believed in by this me. It's all this psychological suffering believed in me. It's only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be anxious. Only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be guilty or just jealous, envy. Me is the cause of all this psychological suffering. And they are the effects that cause me. Now that's all that so-called karma is. Cause and effect. So me is the cause. And the effects are the fear, the anxiety, all this psychological suffering. What happens, and you've asked yourself the simple question, can there be an effect? If it's not related to a cause?
Well you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to work that out. If you're not relating to a cause, what can be affected? So this is also so-called karma. You can be rid of your karma by looking into your true nature. And seeing that me is the cause of it all. And the effects are so and so. And if I'm not relating it to a cause, there can't be an effect. So that's what we need to do. Are you this body, mind? Are you this person? Innately you already know you're not. Because you say my body. You say my car, my house, my coat, my hat.
You know damn well you're not the car, the coat, the house or the cat. Or maybe you're not the body either. If you look along those lines. Well you're saying my body. Well have a look, investigate that. What's this body made up of? When you investigate that, when you investigate the body, you'll see it's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you right now. The air that you're breathing. The earth you're standing on. The fire, the body temperature. And the space. That's what this body's made up of. So you are that already. Are you the mind? And you say my mind.
Well show me a mind if you think you can find a mind. You're saying my mind. Well what is it? And when you look in to investigate, you'll see there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. Now if mind is thought, and I believe myself to be the mind, I'd be concerned with the thinking. But yet, I'd be frightened to go to sleep, wouldn't I? Because if I believe myself in this thought up entity, without a thought, that'd be the end of me. But I gladly give it up when I go to sleep at night. So I know I'm not the thought. And what is mind?
It's thought. Well what's thought? Thought is sound, noise, word, vibration, a movement of energy. Just the same as the body can be broken down into vibrating pattern of energy, so can the mind. So that is all there is. Still all that oneness when you look into it. All that. Absoluteness. Now where do this, you think you are this body, when did you begin? You'll say I began at birth. But can anybody remember your birth? You realise you can't remember your birth. And that's understandable. Why can't you remember your birth? Because you had no words. How could you say I was born if you didn't have any words to know that?
You can say I was born now, but you don't know anything about your birth. And how did you begin in the first place? Well go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence that was your father, and that vibrating intelligence energy through the food he's eating and the prana, the breathing he's taken, enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. But that sperm is there. But that sperm is suffused with intelligence energy. It knows what to do. And the same in the mother. That animating life essence in your mother formed an egg or an ovum.
And that egg and ovum knows what to do. It attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm swim to the ovum. So they weren't just dull mobs of blobs of glue. They were knowing what to do. They were suffused with that intelligence. And when the sperm swim to the ovum, it penetrated the ovum, what happens? The genes and that in the body of the mother and the breathing and all the rest of it, and the things going on, doubled that cell and doubled it again and again and formed the little embryo, the little fetus. Which is what you are today. What were you doing about it then?
To grow it. And what are you doing about it now? To grow it. It's growing by itself. Cells are dying in it right now. It's transient. Thousands of them. And being replaced. And yet we take on this idea that I am this person. I am this body. When they tell you in the scriptures again that it is... Pardon? Non-conceptual... Yes. Drop into it. What was it up to? They tell you in the scripture. Non-conceptual awareness. Just this. Nothing else. That's how the Buddha was. Awareness without these concepts. Now that's what needs to happen. What are we doing? We're conceptualizing all the time. Thinking this, thinking that.
It's going on all the time. And we're clotted up in the mind with concepts. But I use the analogy of the clouds in the sky. Go outside on a cloudy day. Would you say the sun's not in the sky? No. Because if it's been investigated, then you know the sun never leaves the sky. See? The false again cannot stand up to an investigation. But when you ask yourself what forms the clouds? You realize the sun itself forms the cloud. Now the sun doesn't know anything about the cloud. But the radiance of the sun, warms the water, which has been condensed by the radiance of it, and condenses the water.
And the water rises and cools down and forms a cloud. And that cloud will cool down or the wind will blow it away or it'll come down as rain. And that rain will fall into the rivers and go back into the ocean again eventually. But it comes down as rain and there are less clouds in the sky. When there are less clouds in the sky, when the clouds blow it away and it's clear sky, what's there? There's more radiance, more warmth, and the same applies here. Much more clarity. When there are less thoughts in your head, there's more clarity there. There's more room for the affection, love, the joyousness, the sense of well-being, being well, nothing wrong.
And you're not locking in all these conceptual ideas. There's less room for the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame and remorse. So you can be rid of a lot of this psychological suffering and rest, let it rest in its uncontrived singularity, its true nature. And there's nothing wrong anymore, as Nsagatada puts it. And he tells you that nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Break that word imagination down to image in, imagine. And realise that's what we're doing all the time. We're creating these mental images like clouds, obscuring the sunshine of the spirit, the life essence that you are. It's obscured by clouds of thoughts, concepts, ideas.
And the sad thing is we think we can work it out in the mind. With these concepts and ideas, the very things that are obscuring it. That's why they call it ignorance in the scriptures. Not that we're dull or stupid, which we take it to mean, but we are ignoring our true nature. We're ignoring our reality, that pure intelligence entity, the fact of being. And focusing into this conceptual image, trying to get it to become something with it. A conceptual image. A body. Such in an end, a being knowing and loving. Are you being right now? You call yourself a human being. Put the label on it, you call God the supreme being.
Take away the label human, take away the label supreme. Try and separate the beingness without the label. And you can just say, well no. You can't say I am not, so I must be. And being is not becoming. And it never will become. It can't. Because becoming implies a future time. And it's timeless. So I think we're going to become something, we're on this so-called path. It's not going to happen. What's happened is there's less clouds in the sky, and recognise your true nature, and you realise that sunlight, the spirit is already shining fresh in you, and absolute in you right now. And that's what we're doing.
I could ramble on and it's time for all to have a say. And there's people here that know it. People here have had taste of it. And people here, if you've got taste, you've got any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. Nobody's going to eat you alive, or jump on you. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's what we're doing. Or jump on you. If they do, it's not wrong. And other people that know it, and they can put it in a different way to me, to this pattern, and you might hear it, it might resonate.
But what resonates with you means it's already recognised, it's already known. And a lot of it does resonate because innately you already know this. But we've got lost into the conceptual imaging over the way. And the time, and the space. But realise it's all in one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. So, Watson, Kat, Kat, away you go. Welcome again everyone, and welcome. We have 20 plus people online with us who usually ask questions and participate in the meetings. But today we only have welcome messages, a few hearts, and Tass just says, you are beautiful, Bob. And that's it. So the mic is in your hands.
You're going to open it up, share whatever moved you, whatever you might have heard profoundly when Bob was speaking, or something that didn't sit right and you would like a little bit more clarity around it. Or just generally, maybe if you share what you understand, what you really, really grasped through your own kind of filtering and mechanism, that may help someone else to hear it. So I'll just grab the mic off Bob. And, oops, sorry darling. Sorry. Yes, I did actually. Anyone would like to share or ask questions? Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, Bob. That was beautiful as always. I notice whenever I come and I listen to you speak or when I'm listening on the Zoom calls, I feel like this expansion, it's like this kind of fine energy fills my body and it's just a beautiful state to be in.
But what I also notice is it seems to take a lot of energy to stay in this state. And often on the Zoom calls, like I feel this state starting to appear and then it's almost like I can't stay awake. Like my body wants to just go to sleep, if not such a beautiful space to be in. And I find this in the rest of my life too when I'm trying to meditate or just trying to find the energy to kind of be present. I'm just wondering where or how do you access this energy or find this energy to stay in? And how do you find the energy to stay present?
Because it seems sometimes like there's just, there isn't any energy there. Tell me, when are you not present? It seems often, yeah. But the presence is always presence, but the thoughts are seemingly obscuring it. Thoughts are covering it. Thoughts are going up. So, and you're trying to stay, relax and rest. Relax into that presence instead of trying to because the very trying is the thing that stops it. It's a natural state, presence awareness. So the more and when you feel that idea or feel that sense of wanting to go to sleep or, well, just have a bit of a cat nap and see what comes up in that.
When you find you're out of the way, you're attached to it more and more. Yeah, I want to just, wait a second. I'm just going to add, see there is a cat behind Julia. Look at this cat. Because the whole idea of staying in the natural state is really about letting life move you. If the life moves you to rest a little bit, there might be a resting time. If the life moves you to perhaps question, why are you tired constantly? Then maybe that life will move you to some other answers like there may be some chemical imbalances or every state, every moment is a result of the contribution of the infinite amount of factors.
So if there is particular, if you are drawn to actually, if there is a worry that maybe that's not natural, maybe there is not enough energy, maybe there is something wrong with the body, then life will move you to look at it. But it could be also, if you have really profound moments of clarity, then that mechanism, that funny mechanism which ensures the survival of the body is linked to experiencing pleasure. If it links pleasure with that, it instantaneously begins to desire more of the pleasure. And now suddenly the spiritual search begins a desire, begins a quest for more. And from there the spiritual search begins a quest for more.
And after the spiritual search, the spiritual search begins a quest for more, and the spiritual search begins to find that more and more of the pleasant states, while the natural state is the state in which all the other states come and go, like the pleasant, peaceful, anxious, angry, tired, energetic. All of them are appearing in that open field of consciousness that you are. Wanting is just what appears again in that open field of knowing. And of course the question is totally valid, you know, am I doing anything wrong? Can I do something better? You know, the commitment to realization of the truth coming from the heart says, I want to give it everything, so guide me so I really, you know, I don't want to stand in the way.
That's beautiful. That's love. That's longing for the truth. It is there and it is shining and it is already guiding you because there is really nothing else that can guide you. That longing and love for the truth and for the clarity, that's all there is. And as Bob said, relax into it, get the catnap like that cat behind Julia and yeah, from the quiet mind that insights spring. That's the trouble. I think everything is dualistic. You know, so when the... The bad's there and the bad comes along, we want to get rid of the bad. But it's two ends of the one stick. Left as it is, it's going to move around again like the sun moves around the cloud...
What is it? The sun. The earth moves around the sun constantly like it's daylight here now, it'll be dark later on, then it'll be daylight again. So the thoughts come. The good will be here. The good will be here. The bad will come. Instead of separate... Taking them to be separate and fighting with one against the other, left as it is, the thoughts will change too. Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Left as it is. It's all absolute. It'll come back to that absolute. Naturally, there'll be a bit more or a bit less. That's how it goes on in the nature.
That's how it's functioning out there. You know, more or less. Winter, summer, silence, sound, movement, stillness. But it comes around of itself. Nobody has to go out and grab the earth and make it hurry up and push it around. It happens naturally. And so the spontaneous living goes on here. This body's aging now. Well, it's aged. It's getting worse. But since it's been taken less notice of and allowed to happen, I've been given a bonus of many, many years of life. It's getting worse in some things and better in others. Yeah. And also there is that intelligence of life that makes the attention always be attracted and following what is required for the moment.
Like when you look at the animals, one of the cats is lying there flat completely, five senses wide open. And it's just enjoying the being. Because there is nothing that requires anything else. But there are also moments in a cat's life when they will be following a little bird or mouse. And their attention is laser focused and is attending to the body. They are. They don't imagine any self inside. So they are in the natural state constantly and always and ever. They don't have the idea that there is an ego there, at least according to our neuroscience and our observation. So they, what is natural for them is also natural for us.
That there is a time for cat nap and rest. And there is a time to have five senses wide open. And there is a time for the disappearance of the universe when attention doesn't really go to any of the senses, even then. And there is also a time for laser focus, attending to daily tasks and other things. And expecting that I should stay. Because this wasn't even a dream. It was a reality. Because this wasn't your questions. But that question comes up quite often in individual sessions and generally. How do I stay with the emptiness? How do I stay with the presence awareness? Because I can have it for a moment, but I want to have it all the time.
The truth is you can't have it. Because when it is, the I is not. That's the paradox. That's the paradox. When there is no mind, it shines through. And when the mind is required to do its calculation, comparison, planning, whatever the mind is required to do, that is naturally obscured by the activity of the mind. But it doesn't mean that it is gone. It doesn't mean that the life has disappeared. It is still always and ever there. It's just that attention has been called to attend to pain or whatever it is. So recognizing that intelligence and relaxing into knowing that that intelligence is far, far greater than my desires to be present.
Or my desire to be with emptiness as if there was two of us, me and emptiness. Emptiness shines forth when the me is relaxed into nothing. To what it is really. Because the me is a thought. It's an imagination. It's a thought. It's an imagination. It's nothing but a persistent sort of a self-hypnosis state in which we have practiced all our life. To imagine that there is a driver who has free will and control. And that driver is responsible for achieving enlightenment or for waking up. That's the storyline. But the realization is that there is no one there. So there is no one who needs to achieve anything.
There is no one who needs to awaken. Awakening is from that imagined storyline. When the storyline just, you can see it as a story. And then it just doesn't have any effect anymore. It doesn't sting anymore. Even if it comes back. And a little narrative is chatting. You can't ever, ever believe it again. That you are anything. Anything. That you are unlovable. Or that you are lovable. That you are ugly. Or that you are smart. Or beautiful. Because what you are is beyond description. When you realize that there is no unit of you. It's nothing that is separated from the totality that you could call you.
It doesn't fit any description. It can't be good enough or not good enough. Nothing, anything, nothing can be said about it. And at the same time it can't be denied. Because try not to be. You can't. You are. You are. What you are. That's a different story. Don't tell yourself that story. Don't go there. But you are. And isn't it wonderful? Just to be. Without any, even if the desire for more pleasure passed through that sense of being. Yeah, oh wow. Desire for more pleasure. What a wonderful manifestation of love. Isn't it? If I want more chocolate. Or more organ. That's love. That's self-care. That's beautiful.
But following that desire means that I leave the source, that love behind it. And go on the story that I am lacking something. I am deficient. I need to fix myself. Complete myself. That's unnecessary. The recognition that behind that original motivation of any movement is love. And staying with it. And staying with that. It's enough. That love will manifest into a story of luck. But don't go there. Stay with the motivation. That was beautiful. Thank you. Can I add something? What came up a few moments ago before you started talking, of course it's hard to go back to thought, but whatever. Was just this, one of my favorite quotes from the Infinite was the Nisargadatta line of, Nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination.
Yeah. I love that. Like a juicy little nugget in like one sentence. And that imagination, well, outside of this nanosecond which is fleeting and even also this is imaginary or whatever. Anything I could have a thought about is about what seemingly was or seemingly will be. Like even the word now is over as we say it. So it's. Just that one little sentence that is just so helpful to see, wait a minute. What's your now? If there's an emotional upset that's being held on to longer than this cat might or my toddler would or something like that. There's. Because the upset's allowed. I mean, it's, I think you've pointed out previously, you know, if I spook this cat, she's going to run.
Yeah. You know. She's going to run for minutes, won't she? She'll go back to doing whatever she is doing, you know, or the bird will, you spook the bird, it'll fly off. But then it doesn't, it's, there's no holding on because, and I think there's no holding on because there's no imaginary me that's holding on in the toddler and the animals. And it's so, it's, it's this, this one little nugget of pointing has facilitated so much more ease in. Recognizing or recognizing, as you've said, what's here before the concepts, you know, or between them. And just, this is, and is it that bad? Really? I mean, like we go into the thoughts about how much this sucks and you know, without the thought.
We could just back into. Let's go. We could allow that to step just. And then just stay here. Maybe there's a lot of anxiety or fear or anger or fine. Something Kat once said to me, I just really found just another juicy nugget. You know, I'm not really free if I'm not free to have all my emotions. Love it. Yeah. And it's in that resisting of all these emotions that really is mostly happening here because I shouldn't be this way. I shouldn't be this way. I should always be. I should always be. The shoulds are gone, you know, you know, and I may just come back to this.
Let's explore this sensation. Maybe it's anxiety or whatever, and have a curiosity for a moment as though it was never here before. Maybe it wasn't because this is fresh and new. You know, this is not the same anxiety I had. It's maybe layered. Okay. Seemingly. But once you peel back the layers and you look for a moment and go, right, let's just stay with this. I never did that before. Maybe not the way I did now. Yeah. It's not even that. But I go into that. Well, I might call it that because it feels like what I've called that. You know what I mean? I've had a label for that, you know, but if I just stay with this, what's that like?
And then I'm back to just this. I'm so grateful. I came here through sort of this path of letting go. And when I first started to learn about it, one of the things they'd said is that you start with whatever's on top. And what's always on top occurred to me later on is simply a wanting to let go. That is always, the thought even comes up to let go. That is what's here on top. Yeah. That's what's here on top is, I don't, not this. I have to let it go. And when you see the I that couldn't let go and doesn't exist, you know, whew, yeah, that was, that was like, I love, it's a story.
I love to, some of my old stories, I bring it up again was the time when I had a car accident and I was beating myself up and I'm doing all these processes of welcoming the, trying to stay with it, the emotion, you know, I'm going to let it go and I'm trying all these different. Things I've learned, but really that the sledgehammer of letting go is really seeing that the me that can let go, the snake has always been a rope. And as somebody brought up recently in a meeting, yeah, that rope actually doesn't even exist either, but it's like, but, but man, I mean, I, when I had like this car accident several years ago and, and I was beating myself up.
And I just got to bring it up again because I love the story of, I get on the phone with Bob and I'm like, so I thought of your quote, what's wrong with right now, unless you think about it. And he's like, well, problem is I can't stop fucking thinking about it. And he's just, so who's thinking about it? And just a little laugh came up because it's when it's looked at, oh my God, it's so ridiculously simple. And how grateful I am for everybody here and you. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you. I love you. Peter. Is it okay? Lucky to forget this, to forget the teaching altogether to not remember.
Do you, do you feel like you're falling out of love with yourself or something like that? If you, if you're not right there on the money, because of course you are in totally loved and you know this, you cannot. For sake your own heritage is that that is, it's impossible when, when Bob, you know, forgot his spiel for a moment when you do this moment of did you, did any of us here think, oh, we don't, don't love him anymore. Don't include him in or don't, don't think that he is not the perfect self that he is in, in, in essence. Or of course not, you know.
Just. here really has nothing to do with all these blips up and down and around and about it's all just uh... you know just that and all this is there is no real uh... outcome here is there nothing to try and grasp and get the monkey mind all that stuff you know in india you know what monkey how yeah a close-necked bottle in which the monkey reaches in grab a banana he runs around with this thing behind him because he doesn't want to let go of the banana but of course if he just lets go of the banana he can slip his arm out he's no longer entrapped thank you i just think when i first um...
was turned onto this understanding through bob many years ago uh... i think for all of my life until i was until i was in bob's presence i thought i had to figure everything out myself i thought all the answers where in the mind and uh... and through another fellowship i i used to try and hand things over and you know there was me and god and there was me and me trying to find a solution and you know there was me and whatever was going on and then Bob told me that I wasn't that me and that the the memory I had of myself wasn't who I really was and that there were no answers in the mind and I and then the mind tried to get itself around that statement and it was like a swirling swirling mess of um uh you know resistance and dis-ease trying to figure it out you know and um you know and so you know it took a while after habitually being being in the mind and trying to figure everything out up until that point um for Bob to say full stop there's no answers in the mind and and there's a split you know there's a split with me and the other so there's this little imagine me and then there's the other person place or thing in most of my cases being very in the mind it was the thing or the other object or the other alleged solution trying to figure it out you know and he kept coming back to full stop there's no answers in the mind you know there's not you and the other there is just this right here right now eternity you know but then I'd listen to Bob I'd go to the meetings I'd read the books I'd do all this and you know then the resistance and the dis-ease would come back you know and then the mind's habit was to try and find a solution and then I'd go to the meetings I'd read the books and then I saw it and then I saw it and um wow you know I mean I'm just getting cold shivers making that statement you know um but it's old habits die hard you know but you just keep coming back to who's it happening to there's no answers in the mind where is this me the maze just a memory you know wow it's just it just stops you know it stops it full stop don't try and figure it out you are this presence awareness um thank you that was really beautiful and yeah I think the one thing that since coming to these meetings that has really helped me is that just that simple question of every time I find myself in a situation where I'm not able to think of something or just like any little disturbance is asking myself who is who is feeling this disturbance and every time it's like this like grin comes across my face as I like see it for that moment um and then more often than not it kind of slips back in some back door and you kind of get these concentric circles of asking yourself who's noticing that you just saw this like um but yeah it's just it's it's beautiful so right when I was with my dear friend earlier the other day and she said you know you know does it never stop and I said well it's in mine's nature to keep going that's its nature you know but it's interesting because I've been on this path for a long time you know there's a lot of peace there's a lot of silence there's a lot of uh recognizing that emptiness and so there's a less chatter and the truth has eaten away the lie I've done nothing because there was never a me in the first place so the truth has eaten away the lie of me being separate of me being able to figure things out I never had to do anything and I used to hear Bob say it's effortless living you know but I'd say I'd have to make an effort I've got to do this I've got to do that and you know you don't make the choices what does he mean of course I've got to make choices you know and then I totally saw there was no me choices were made effort was taken but I didn't do it I've never done it and I'll never do it ultimately we just go through this barrier of and we just find ourselves in this homogenous that yeah we just come back to the statement I am that in my totality and no matter what it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter and that in that moment it's just like you know everything is filled out in this unity yeah that's right thank you and it doesn't matter we are the love the one love and it holds everything yeah that's happening now whether we think it or not we believe it or not but when we think that we need to apply these rules and regulations all the time I've got a lot of people who are like oh I've got to do this I've got to bring myself back to'll drops away and I am that so here Amon us says desire can be traced to Desire and desire lost its energy I'm pretty sure Amarna humans the opposite the desire can be traced to no desire because that's what we all about here no self but I know he knows the truth it's just a type of I'm sure and you can find out that desire just floats through the space is desiring happening but there is no one who actually owns it no self that desires angry frustration also amanas are part of creation and life they do not have energy and meaning often leads to inquire that realization if used for seeking without seeker yeah the punctuation is a little bit difficult but I'm sure that's correct words and thoughts are notions but their source is self without penetrating into them they can be used to create and to create and to create and to create and to create and to create discriminatively and watchfully memory without reference point of me and others itself Thank You Jane no answers in the mind similarly no questions to just drama of questioner and answerer and Julia British Julia says to Aminath yes no thought is conscious can you drink the word water yes Julia also says the truth eats away the lie beautiful Jane and Aminah says yes Julia beautiful consciousness is hidden put costume of thought and world individuals and things yes thank you anyone else would like to would you like to say something to go on well nothing's wrong anymore yeah that the thought just came up of know the truth and the truth will set you free and then another thought of from the I'd heard from of course miracles lectures and that and the only thing to be free from is insane thoughts maybe better might be better stated free with insane thoughts okay because the insane thoughts may come up it's just less believing you know in these thoughts just seeing the thoughts as comings and goings and not but buying into the thought that this is real this is what I am I am this thought you're saying yeah completely you know it's theRISA I'm the life what's going on so this is where you will be you know originally this is more natural this is at a place to use right now you will meet and gets to know them no what are you saying you can just say what is inside that you then that reason also the this word love, one of my favorite words.
Well, I'll have a, I don't know, I think I'd heard somebody say really, well, how we define things, really, if you come up with synonyms that, you know, maybe the first five words that come up for you would be how you would define it, you know, a definition. So for me, that word love, I guess, triggers this idea of love is simply, an allowing of something or someone to be as it or they are without wanting anything to be different or get anything in return. And the only thing that would really closely, I don't know how to say this, match that idea that I just tried to put in a sentence is simply just this empty space that I am that is, with this emptiness that allows for all vibrations, no matter how they appear, whether they're appearing as a tsunami, or as the Buddha, or as me, or as my dog's poop, or whatever.
I don't know. It's allowing of everything, everything. Anyway, I'm just babbling. I'm totally babbling on. But the truth can't be spoken. And I think if you're knowing the truth, you're being it. That's all. It's not in thought. Anyone else want to? So I don't know where to start. I got, maybe start with the desire of pleasure. Because I'm always in a debate with myself. I think I'm aware of that I'm in a debate with myself within that feeling of desire and pleasure and also what I'm conscious of, of a situation. Let's say I'm actually back on that same topic from last week. I met... I met...
I met... that woman. And in the beginning, when we met, it was a state, I find, of an understanding. So I could find someone who understands me, what I was saying, which was always hard to find. Certain things I see, and then I try to apply that, and I could have conversation with that person. And now, it's... I get more conscious of that understanding, and I think that that understanding is not so much the case as I thought. So when you spoke about conceptual images, there was an understanding, and I think I had that conceptual image then as well, that... that was the case, but then I got aware that it wasn't.
And... the attraction also... the attraction also... was easing, I would say. And... I got... I spoke to my mother a lot, and actually could then actually step a bit more out of that situation. By talking to her, we talked sometimes for six hours, non-stop, and we talked about that same topic. And then I got aware of the different behaving patterns, because that person I met was actually married and in a relationship. And eventually that partner knew as well, but he wanted us to catch up as well, because he wanted her to be happy, because if she's happy, then everyone in the house will be happy.
And... so it was a very complex situation, but at the same time, he wants to make decisions, mate, and it always felt to me, every decision they have to make is up to me, what I want. And I felt like, actually, hang on a minute, that... it's nothing to do with me, because you've been in that situation before that wasn't great. And she was picturing, or she was saying to me, with her and me, it's like a bubble. And she even gave me a present from a volcano, like a bubble. And I sort of mentioned to her that bubble seems to be bursting, as the understanding is easing.
And then I got... more aware of the situation of... I'm actually just a bubble. And then I felt like, OK, that's probably how far that relationship went. And... so basically, by me understanding that, I can really logically see it and easily talk about it, and there's no... as an observer, observing the situation. And then... then I have these moments where I feel like, I don't have anyone to talk to, because we still talked a lot on the phone as well, sometimes for five hours and so on, because different topics. And... so there's always that... back and forth between, that's actually not the case anymore, but at the same time, you have that desire.
And... and when you were saying that as a conceptual image, and you said everything is just moving on... in life, and changing, I think what happens with me, that I probably wouldn't like to accept it, or there's a hope there will come some more understanding on her part to continue. So I'm always debating between... yeah, I understand that, but... and I'm hanging on to it, I want to complete it. So I'm not sure what... if that's what I'm understanding right or not, what's happening there, that I can't just move on. So... well, I say that's the state I'm in. If you said before that it's okay to be in a state...
where you're in. Sometimes in dreams, you'll be looking at someone and relating to them, and then all of a sudden they'll just dissolve, or they'll dissolve into another person. No. And... that was all. Yes, so you have a lot of clarity around your situation, at least you can describe it, you see your insights, you see how things are moving, you see how the energy is shifting, you see how your perception is shifting, you also see how certain rules are changing for you, because every situation is created by infinite amount of factors, because there is only one. So that whole oneness expresses itself as 10,000 things, you know, the weather, the hormones, the parents, the early conditioning, the childhood, your rules for the relationship, that the person has to have the same sort of philosophy, or whatever it is.
You can see now all those factors influencing the situation, and you can see how it creates persistent illusion that this is me, this is I, I have to decide. But how is it me or you, if it depends on completely subconscious set of rules, that I want to talk, I want that person to be on the same page, I have desire for pleasure, and a thousand little things. So you are on the right track to actually be able to spot all those things in consciousness, you see how they are rising, see how much clarity you have around all those things playing up in your life.
Now, if you could actually see how little agency is required to manage these things, like what gave you the insight, what gave you the realization that this is how you want the situation to proceed, or this is what you will have to do, or this is what you still need. See how those feelings and those emotions are also arising in the consciousness, and see how you are actually already in a place of curiosity, how this is going to unfold. You don't know which way it is going to go. It feels like, oh yeah, the relationship has to ease, have to end, or it doesn't fulfill all the rules for happiness, unless she will develop the understanding and she will be talking about what I'm talking.
Those are the thoughts at this moment. You know that the situation can change dramatically at any point when there is another contributing factor, and it is out of your hands. Like it is out of your hands if we are going to get another Ice Age tomorrow, or Putin pressed the button, or anything else happens, or you will have a very, very strong dream at night which will completely change your perspective on how important it is to talk about the non-conceptual awareness. So there is a thousand little things which make that situation, even though so many things you already spot on it, it is still a completely unknown mystery how life will take it further.
So the probably most lucid attitude you could take towards the whole unfolding is to be the space that you are, be that open field of consciousness that you are. You are the consciousness. Within you as consciousness, that relationship arose. Your responses to it arose. The person's responses to it came up. The contemplation around it. All of it happens within that being knowing, that conscious awareness that you are. So stay with what you are. You are the being knowing. And the details of what is known, what has been known yesterday, something new came today, something yet new may come tomorrow. But you are that field of awareness, that being, that loving to be, that joy of being, in which that incredibly complex situation presents itself.
And it will be unfolding in that. So stay curious. Stay open. See where it takes you. It may take you to the place that you have not foreseen or expected. Place that may be a little bit heavier or a little bit lighter. But life surprises you. If you stay open, the more insights will come through. And it will always surprise you. Like I had a concept that's autobiographical. And so did Bob about seven years ago. What relationships I would never enter. And someone who would be twice my age was absolutely out of the picture. And what subjects, what requirements for the relationship I had. And I also had that in my first marriage.
Resentment or perhaps unfulfilled dream that my ex-husband didn't want to sit and meditate. And I didn't want to explore the spiritual path and talk philosophy. I was missing that. And how wrong. You don't talk about that. You are that. With Bob, we never speak non-duality between each other because what is there to talk about? It is about living it, being it. You know, all that you were talking about is all the surface stuff appearing upon that presence that you are. You know, that's all the surface stuff that happens. It just bobbles along, you know. That we think we have some control over, but we don't.
It's just what's happening. But what's it happening upon? You know, that presence that you are. So all that stuff, which is love, which is beautiful, which is that, it's still just on the surface. And so when there's something on the surface, there's got to be something that it's appearing on. And that's the focus. If there is anyone to focus on. But, yeah, it's just all the surface stuff. That's what came up here. I heard you use a word earlier. It was the word bubble. And I think that bubble concept, I think, I think a lot of us think of ourselves that way. I mean, a lot of us kind of know we're not these bodies, but we think of ourselves as sort of a bubble.
A collection, you know, of memories, you know, and thoughts and ideas and beliefs and stories. Well, going back to memory again, that bubble. A soul. There's another word for that bubble. You know. I just love the Sailor Bob quote, from where you got it from. I've got three souls. A soul in each of my feet and my asshole. So, but when we look back to this idea of the bubble, this bubble soul, it's similar to at least the idea of the vessel, that if you have the water inside the vessel, or like you just take the vessel, the empty vessel, and you break the vessel, what do you pop?
The bubble. You know. Then the, whatever is inside the bubble fuses with that, what's outside the bubble, no bubble, no, none of that. There's just. Yeah, the bubble was interesting because that was her concept. And not mine. And, but I was observing, aha, that is what it's for her. Then the bubble topic seemed to ease. And once things, the understanding was not there so much. Anymore, a couple of times. That's where I sort of remembered back, oh, hang on a minute. She was actually from the start. Name it as a bubble, because whatever happens in her life wasn't resolved. And so then I was, could step back and actually could see the whole situation from the beginning.
And every aspect of the, and I was writing this down within two hours. And I could see it, oh, hang on a minute. This and that just came up. And I just, oh, that was that, that was that. And I got more clarity for myself. I was writing this all to her. And I got totally clarity of the different behaving patterns of the family, of the kids, of the mother, of me, why this and this happens, why they don't understand each other. And then the bubble come into place and that could stay a bit longer alive. And so on. So I could see everything. And I was sharing that.
And, but I wasn't, I'm missing that she's understanding even that. So, I mean, she went through emotions as she's telling me back. And I was, I'm sort of still hoping and she under sees what I'm seeing. And for me, I think what I'm holding on was a hope that she can see what I see. And whatever comes out of it, I'll just have to see. Yeah. Because she's not at that stage yet. So no, that's correct. I think I was inspired as a teenager studying Gucci of teachings when he actually demonstrated how people sometimes go to war with each other, even though they are completely on the same page.
They have different definitions of the words and they completely agree on the topic. But they fight and kill each other for it. And there was another one when he said it was being his student explaining philosophy. Sometimes people think they agree on something because they nod to each other, but in their own experience of the, again, definition of the concepts, they are completely opposite. The truth is that you will never ever know, that will remain mystery. You may dream that that person gets you completely and understands you completely on the conceptual level, but that you will never know for sure, that will be a belief.
Although on the level of heart, when you step down from the conceptual explanations, you can totally get the other person as because the being is one, who you are, every other form of being is the same at core, is the same in essence. It's just different the moment you start filtering through your personality, your past, your experiences, your values, all of it, and it comes out as words. And it will be received by the other body-mind organism, bio-computer that filters and compares with their past, their experiences, and their values. That's where we never meet. In the land of the imagination, of the concepts, we can dream or imagine that we meet, but we never do.
There are people who are having the same political agenda, and they don't really know that they cannot possibly, that they cannot possibly, that they cannot possibly, that they cannot possibly, that they cannot possibly, be certain that the other person has the same sort of an agenda or belief. The greatest problem with communication is the belief that it actually took place. Lovely. I'll mention it tomorrow. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll mention it. I just read because we are at the end of the meeting. I'm going to just read a couple of, yes. So Julia asked me to remind everyone, especially from America, that there is an additional Zoom meeting Sunday night, or Sunday evening for Americans, Monday morning for Aussies.
All the details on syloorbobadamson.com slash meetings. And welcome to join. And there are a couple of comments, one from Vivek. That's for you, Julia. Nicely said, Julia. Only thing to be free from is from thoughts. So more buying of thoughts. And Greg says, so many words for nothing, I get confused. Oh, that's beautiful, Greg. Beautiful. That means you don't trust your mind anymore. That's actually, it really is a better state than the state, though, I know it. I understand it. I am right. It's so, so much more humble, better, and honest to just be confused and stay in that humble state of, yeah, I don't get it.
I don't know. I don't know. Because the mind never gets it. So if we manage to confuse you, bravo. We did wonderful. We did wonderfully well. Drop to the heart. There is nothing you don't know there. You know that you are. That, nobody can take you. Nobody can take it away, no matter how much blah, blah on top of it. You know that you are. And thank you, Greg. That was a good confession, one could say. And Tanya says, it doesn't matter what thoughts come up. This intelligent energy, intelligence energy doesn't matter. Intelligence energy doesn't mind. The thoughts can't affect, change, or disturb the being you are.
Absolutely beautiful, Tanya. And Amarnath says, prior to thought is is-ness. Yes. And Vivek says again, oh, no, I've read it already, the nice, what Vivek said to Julia. Amarnath says, we have never investigated I. Words cannot be investigated to. And Tanya says, all vibrations, energies, feelings are allowed simply because they appear. Thoughts tell the story that some vibrations are more desirable than others. And some should appear to be clear about what is, but that's just another thought, another lie. Not true at all. I really love what Jane said about just full stuff. Yes. The answer is not in the mind. That is so true. Why look where, why look there when that is seen?
But looking there couldn't have been any other way as all is just happening. Nothing right or wrong with how this unfolds. That's beautiful, Tanya, beautiful summary. And Amarnath says, thanks, Kat, origin of desire is from the mind. is from not desirable self. That's an interesting twist. Movement is happening in non-movable. Love to see Maureen here, Amarna. And thank you, love you all. And Terry, this path ultimately is a solo path. The seeming relationship can come later when indeed it is absolutely seen as seeming. In the meantime, even the dependence on God must go. You are alone as there is only one. Granted, appearing as many, the relationship is a state of being conscious of.
Now, take a seeming further step, no longer conscious of, but simply consciousness itself, a seeming. A singular experience. That is beautifully said, Terry. Thank you. Yes, and Mirela says, thank you all. Lovely meeting as always. Much love. And JB says, so the mental narrative always happen after reality happening. A sunset is being narrated even after the seeing sunset or after hearing birds singing happening. And this narrator is trying to claim the happening as doer. But if the narrative is not happening, if the narrator is always lagging behind reality, or if it is acting like an echo of the instantaneous reality, it cannot be who we are.
It is just thought. And if it is thought and narrator is false, there is no personal doer. So then this narrator is what creates all the mental, emotional suffering stories. And it isn't even real. What is prior to the narrator, according to the Nisargadatta paraphrased, he said, what we really are is prior to thought or narrative. That's brilliant, JB. Absolutely. And Tanya says, thank you for such sweet and beautiful clarity. So much gratitude and love is overflowing, but it can't be overflowing as all is love. Yes, it has been another wonderful meeting. Love you, Bobcat and everyone that's from JB. And yes, can't forget, thank you, Jane and everyone for commenting.
And British Julie and Primali, everyone says thank you. So yes, thank you everyone. And, and we're going to go out for lunch. And thank you, Katz. And thank you both. And yes, thank you. Thank you.