This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
You're on, Bob. You're on. I'm on. You're on. Well, that's the usual of course. How could it be anything else? Non-duality. One without a second. Not two. The one essence, patented, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. And you and I and everything else is only that. Couldn't be anything else. Or they wouldn't put that label on. Now, if it is so, who or what is searching for it? Who or what is trying to become? And they call it in Hinduism Sat-Chit-Ananda, Nama-Rupa. They are the five factors in the description of it. Sat is existence. Chit is consciousness. Ananda is loving to be. Or the bliss of being.
Another way they put it is being, knowing and loving to be. Having affections, awareness of being. They're all different ways of saying the same thing. So, anyone who is not existence or is not being right now. Anyone who is not aware or conscious right now. So, you must be that already. Now, if you're that already, what is there to search for? What is there to become? There is nothing. Well, how did we get into this conceptual idea that we are separate from it? Purely and simply because we learnt words. Words is what seemingly divide it. Concepts, ideas, images. And the word is not the real.
It's not the thing. Take this word water. Can you drink it? The word fire, will it burn you? Can it burn your mouth? So, you see, the word I or me that we take to be a separate entity, an individual, is not so. And what is it? And what is this manifestation without any words? Can you separate anything or divide anything without the word? So, they tell you in the beginning it was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. That's another label they put on it. God. Meaning the absolute, but they put the word. To be a separate entity, an individual.
And that's the fact. Tells you again in the Bible that God made man in his image and likeness. So, we think these images we have, the likeness, that's what God's going to be like. It's an unimagined thing. But when they say in the image and likeness, it's just that the reality in which all these images appear in. A sense of separation. And we've got this concept of God as a higher power or a greater being than what we are. And we think we've got to try and find this. And give ourselves over to this higher power. And become something which cannot happen. Because becoming is not being.
Becoming is the immediacy of right here, right now. And becoming implies there'll be a future time. When you'll change and you'll become something. And these words we've picked up along the way, which you weren't born with any words, they've all been learnt. Were acquired. And you see the word's not the thing. So we've got a conceptual image now of what we believe ourselves to be. But can you take yourself out of the basic screen in which it all appears? What's that screen? Well, can you postulate or think of anything outside of space? And does space have any centre to it? Any beginning to it? Any circumference to it?
Any boundaries to it? And can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space? What would it be in? You realise you can't think of anything that could be outside of space. Now the space in this room, first thing you see is space. Space all around you. There's no division in it whatsoever. It doesn't stop when it hits the walls of this room and start on the other side. It doesn't do that anyway. It doesn't stop outside of this body. Put it under a microscope and you see there's lots of space in the body. Space is no thing. It has no shape, no form, no beginning, no end, no size, no pattern.
And you can't postulate or think of anything outside of space. So all these things are the content of space. Space is no thing. And all the you and I are things and everything else in this manifestation are things which we put labels on and discriminate them with the word or the label. And so we've got many instead of just the one. Can something come from no thing? Well if it's no thing, how can anything come from it? So it's only the no thing, that means you, mine, everything in it, appearing or seeming as something. And they call that a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be.
So they're talking about all this manifestation which is a phenomenal manifestation. It's all appearing. Only seemingly so. I'm catching up with you mate. But it's only seemingly so. And the appearances are not what they appear to be. So there's a saying they tell you in the scriptures that you are that. That is the great mantra. I am that. Pointing out that if that is only one thing, that is all there is. And innately you know that. Because you say that's the chair sitting in. That's the room. That's the space in the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything in this manifestation. That's the cat.
That's the house. It's all that which we put words or labels on and discriminate it further. So every so-called thing is that. Pointing out again that there's no separation anywhere anyhow or any why. But we take on the belief that we are separate when we learn these words. Learn words like I. I am. Instead of I am that or I am the absolute. I am this person. This separate entity. And what's that word person? Comes from the Latin persona. The mask. It's a mask which we change with concepts, ideas, words. So we've got a conceptual image. A word made image which we've taken to be real.
I am that person. I am this body. I am this mind. All false concepts and ideas we've got which we reinforce daily. Our schools, our parents, everyone else reinforce. And we've come to have the firm belief that this is what we are. And because it's separate and feels isolated and alone it's open to all the fear, the anxiety, the stress and the guilt and all the conceptual image of separation brings about. And it's because of this so-called human being, this belief that we are this that all our psychological suffering comes about with the capacity of reasoning and the words we've learnt to discriminate it. If we didn't learn any words could you discriminate anything?
Could you say anything was apart from it? You couldn't. Tell you that in the N.Singh Ming it's a scripture in Buddhism the great way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. We're not talking about just love and hate but when the discriminating words or the thoughts or the ideas or concepts are not being divided without the word everything becomes clear and undisguised. It is then just as it is. What is? Not some conceptual idea. It says, but make the smallest distinction however and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. So when we're discriminated with the word we put all this sense of separation.
And it's infinite separation. It's seemingly infinite. There's no way at all which is to seemingly come together. And it goes on to elaborate on that until it comes to the end. And the last bit of it, it says words. Tell you, words. The way is beyond language. It's beyond words. For there's no yesterday, no tomorrow, and no today. So just putting it without the word, what are you with no yesterday, no tomorrow, and no today? Would that life go away without the words on it? Well, have a look, does it? You gladly give up the word every night when you go to sleep. Gladly give it up.
But it's not the end of you. So it's not the end of you without the word. But now we think, oh, if we lose the words it'll be the finish of us. But it is not. It's really only the beginning. Because you're dropping back and recognizing the absolute or the true nature. You can't split it up, you can't divide it, you can't separate it without the word. And you've had taste of that throughout your life. When everything's sort of fallen into place, or what you're in the zone or without the word, and it's been quite good. And people are looking into this stuff. They've had taste of it without the word.
What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? They've managed to look past the thought or let it go for a moment or do something and had a taste of what's there without the discrimination, without the word. And the peace and joyousness there, the sense of well-being, so we need to recognize, look into it. What's this existence? Anyone who is not existing right now. And you'll say, no, I exist. And don't you know it right now? There's a knowing that existence is there. There's an awareness of being or existence. There immediately. And you say, I'm not conscious right now. Well, how could you say it?
You've got to be conscious just to say it. And is anybody unaware? And you'll say, no, you'll recognize straight away, I'm not unaware. There's something there. What it is, I don't know. Just the pure existence itself. And I'm happy to be. I don't want to be dead. I don't want to be out of it. So that's what we pointed out as the factors of Advaita. And you don't have to find those factors. You are. You are right now. But you lose sight of it. What do we do? Because we've learned these words, and everybody around us is using words, we're using them ourselves. And we've taken on the belief that we are the word, the body, mind, the person.
We think we've got to become. We've got to become the one essence. And it's a long journey. Many years of meditation, thinking, working things out with the mind. And we might become, if we're good, and don't do this and don't do that, and set up all the rules and regulations they put on, that take us away from the spontaneous, natural, effortless living, which is the birthright. Life is ever fresh and ever new. It's spontaneous. It's beginningless and endless, timeless, spaceless. And it forms all sorts of pattern shapes. And forms to express through. And that's what these bodies are. Body, pattern shapes and forms. And the thing called mind, which we've divided.
We divide up all these different sensations, feelings, not recognizing them in their oneness and leaving them be as is, so the manifestation can express in its fullness. We divide it up into words. We separate it. And in that sense of separation is isolation. Separation, loneliness, fear, anxiety and stress. Trying to become what we think is a god. But you can't negate the beingness, can you? Can you say, I am not? But we put on that beingness human beings. We think we are a separate type of being, which we call human. And then we got this god thing again, which we take as a power greater than ourselves.
A power greater. But lose sight of what they told us. That you are that. That is all there is. It's only the one. Yes, it's the one power. You can't separate that beingness. And to recognize that beingness is not becoming. Because becoming implies a future time. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to become this greater power. But then we look into that and you'll see that power they talk about is omnipresence. It's total presence. It's omnipotence. It's total power. It's omniscience. It's total intelligence. It's not a separate higher or lower. It's the totality. The absolute. The great perfection as they call it in Buddhism.
So you already are that. And the search itself becomes the problem. And we do all sorts of practices, meditation and everything, trying to become. But a little bit of investigation, because they tell us again in the scriptures, those that have worked it out, will tell you that the false cannot stand up to the false. They stand up to investigation. And they say that's not true. So there's true and false. A belief in true and false. Separate. But it's the one essence. Two ends of the one stick. And when one essence seemingly disappears, the good and the bad comes up. We don't... We try to hang on to the other, keep it there.
And get rid of the... When the other comes up, get rid of it. We don't want to keep it. So we're in conflict with it all the time. Not realising, lift as it is. It's going to come around again. As you see. It's daylight here now. And seemingly, as it goes on, I won't say later on or at a future time, it'll change and become dark again. So a daylight... A day light. A daylight and dark. Separate things. No. Lift as it is, the daylight will become day. And the darkness will become daylight. So the same with the thinking and the feeling and all the rest of it.
They're not the one... They're not the two things. One's come along and you've got to hang on to it. And the other... Going to come up. The other will come... It'll come around itself. Just the same as... You're breathing in and out. You're not going to stay in the out breath all the time. Or the in breath. Just like your heart's throbbing and pulsating. Two aspects. Expanding and contracting. So the thoughts... Will come and go. Left as they are. But with that separation and division, we like the one and not the other. And so we try to get rid of the one we don't like.
And fixate on the one we do like. And that's going to cause a lot of conflict. Because we're breaking the way nature is functioning. It's going on. It's vibrating itself into everything. We're trying to make it happen. We're bound to be in trouble. Bound to be in conflict. And all those thoughts that come up. The thought, feeling and emotion. Three aspects of the one thing again. Which are divided. Thought will be very subtle. The thought will come up. Put the label on it. Then the sensation, the feeling, will come on. And we put a different label on the feeling. The thought. You might think, I like this.
Or I don't want to do this. And then the sensation will come up. Feel are not separate or whatever. Just like steam, water and ice in nature. Three aspects of the one. It's the thought, feeling and emotion. Go on. So, thought is the mental aspect. When it becomes the sensation or the feeling. It's gone into the body. And the emotion. Causes fear and anxiety and stress and guilt. And shape in their body. So we've given something to the mental. Which is just a vibration. We put the... Put the thought on it. The word in it. And bring it into the body. It upsets the body.
Get emotional upsets. Seemingly divided. Something that's indivisible. And in this belief we are this separate entity. There's a hell of a lot of suffering going on. All sorts of fear. Anxiety. Stress, anger. Unhappiness. Depression. Jealousy. Envy. All concepts. All words. We label everything. Because we can't. Just don't go along seeing everything as it is. Allowing it to change by itself. Which because it is spontaneous. It's an actual vibration. A movement. It constantly changes of itself. And we think we can do a lot about it. We can change it. We can make it better or better. We can make it worse. It might seemingly happen for a little while but it still catches up with you.
So what do we need to investigate? This conceptual idea of a separate entity. An individual. A person. Did you ring up this morning? I did, yeah. Oh, yeah. Good. Yeah, we gave a bit of a talk to start off with. Well, we're just about over that now, so. Yeah. Yeah. Have you looked into this sort of stuff this morning? What's the s'more? Yeah. Yeah, it was. Just to take that, here's it. There's it. And that's what we point out here. That there is no separation. That the person is not reality. We base it on the Hindu scriptures of Veda, Satchitananda, Namah Rupa, existence consciousness bliss.
Name and form. and form we ask you are you existing right now and you know that you are are you conscious or unaware right now you know you're not unconscious you are conscious and not unaware are you happy to be so that's the satchitananda so that points out that the search itself becomes the problem because you're already that and the nama rupa the name and form is the body mind and they say body mind is Maya illusion and what's we point out here that it's all a vibration of energy intelligence and I don't use the term God because you can get confused with the term because we've all got different ideas and what we think God is I use the term intelligence energy I'm not talking about your intellects when I'm talking about intelligence I'm talking about the same intelligence that rolls the earth around the Sun cause the season to come and go the tides to come in and out it's breathing you right now it's beating your heart growing your hand your fingernails it's digesting your food and all those activities are energy intelligence is knowing not your intellect but pure knowing and any knowing is an activity activity of knowing any activity is an activity activity of knowing and any activity is an activity of knowing is an activity activity of knowing and any activity is an activity of knowing is a movement of energy so that's where I get the fact from so I say start from the fact whether you know it or not or whether you realize not you are already that that's the great mantra I am that and that's the chair that's the carpet that's the floor that's everything is that which we discriminate it with the word put words on and the word is not itself not the real drink the word water if you can take the word fire does it burn your mouth and you hate yourself so all these words have been picked up along the way you weren't born with any words and the words not the real anyway that's a rough idea what it's about and I'll open up the questions right now if you like what I say something welcome all the new guys that we didn't see you before so nice to have you here and we also have another 25 people who are with us online so welcome everyone we don't have any questions from our online audience so this is the place where we actually both finished the spiel and we invite you to participate share whatever resonated or didn't resonate or whatever questions you might have or doubts or something that you strongly disagree with and feel that this can't be true so please bring it up we will that that will actually prompt Bob to go further and explain further and there are also people in that room with us who are beyond the need for further help they're not seekers anymore people who know please Jane they know Bob for 30 plus years they could well hold their own meetings Peter Dean Ross they they Adrian they have very good understanding Sebastian when you are here you are welcome to join us and we will see you next time.
when he shared Julia has beautiful input so we invite everyone to share whatever resonates whatever fits well because sometimes as Bob says digested through the through the different body-mind mechanism it may have that frequency which is just well in tune with yours so if you have an understanding or any questions this is the time when we open up the questions and we will see you next time. open the forum and pass on the mic to whoever feels like speaking anyone Peter would you? thanks Bob for another great talk I I really feel the resonance resonance when Bob's talking what he's saying like it's like my whole body kind of lights up and I can feel like this choiceless presence like this I can kind of see or feel understand that I have no choice in a lot of things that I'm doing and I'm not exactly aware that I have so many decisions around me around me whether it's about what to do or a category that's being driven bykay if avoid having to support things that would be challenging or if it is swim with my life or it could be in some form of a make a decision or am I even making a decision like in particular I guess what I'm talking about is in relationships I I'm in or I've been in where like this seems like you have to do so what we should be doing and when the two traditional hard decision but then part of me maybe leans into like oh i'm choiceless like and just let things kind of go on as they are and it almost feels like an excuse but then on one hand i'm not sure how to make a decision when it feels like i'm forcing forcing myself to do something like where how does this concept of choicelessness fit in there decisions are my choices are my decisions are made but there is no choice maker that's probably when the decision comes up and you put and it comes it'll come up and then you'll say i've made this decision and you put it on to the believed in separate entity but that's it to say what's your next thought going to be you can't tell me what your next thought is going to be but you'll say i think as soon as you say i think you formed a subject a thinker and i'm thinking this thought and the thought because the thinker and the thought become divided i'm thinking this thought but it can be a subject a thinker without thinking there can't be can it be a thought without thinking there can't be so can there be a choice without choosing anything can it be a choice maker so you see it'll seem to me that i'll make the choice or i make the decision or but you recognize that the the eye that's doing it is not you it's the life essence itself that's doing that translates as the thought i am you are that life that reality the actuality or godliness if you like to use that sense of presence so but see the eye is really the absolute that's all there is is the absolute what can you enter the absolute nothing at all what can you take away from it nothing so it's only the absolute but we've learned that when we learnt words from our parents you weren't born with any words so you learnt words when your parents went about two two and a half and you learnt the word i am the sense of presence which translates through the mind as the thought i am you know the thought is not what you are it's only a translation so when the saga tells you stay with the i amness he's not telling you to stay with that thought it's saying it's telling you to stay with what it represents it realizes that's this presence awareness that you are you're not unaware you're not you are present like i say you're existing right now you're conscious and you're happy to be right now you don't have to become that or find it and it's always been so but we lost sight of it through the power through the words as uh shakespeare told you 400 years ago there's nothing either good or bad but thinking most of so and shakes and the saga tells you nothing can trouble you accepting your own imagination now break that word imagination down to image in imagine and realize that's all we're doing we're creating mental images or concepts and taking to be real and we get lost in the concepts when it's the one essence that's patterning shaping forming experiencing expressing as everything only the one always been the one so we're relating to this so-called personal being and thinking it has some substance and some independent nature of itself but as absolute what can the absolute do it can't do anything so what does happen to experience itself and express itself and its forms patterns shapes and forms to express through and the life and those patterns shapes and forms seemingly separate they and they have like this body for instance got a brain and all the nerves and things like that how could you say a word about the real reality of the real world How could you say a word?
What would the body be without it? So that's how this innate intelligence functions. It takes care of all that, of forming the body. And all this manifestation is that one essence, as I tell you in the scriptures, from Brahmins or a clump of grass. Or Shiva-Shakti. Shiva, the static aspect, and his consort, Shakti, the vibrating, his female aspect. Shakti vibrates and the world appears. So it's all a vibrator of energy, but it's still the one essence. Shiva-Shakti is not divided. So the division, the conceptual image we divide, is our problem. I'll just add to it, because it is a really vital problem, the decisions. You know, having that cognitive capacity to predict different scenarios, it makes it much more kind of...
make us much more... more prone to vacillating and being uncertain and obsessing, what if I do this, what if I don't do that. If you look at the animals, they don't usually have that problem. If there is a relationship to continue or to break, the strong certainty what to do shows up and the action shows up. So the best thing to stay in the natural state is to stay in that state, in that space, as Bob was saying, in that thoughtless, non-conceptual space of the heart, of the mind, of the body, of the mind. And that is the most important thing. And the most important thing is to stay in that state of I am and wait till the decision is fully made and makes itself clear.
Because there are decisions that you seemingly make on a daily basis. Am I going to have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee? And this is a very strong, clear decision. Oh yeah, I feel for this. And then of course, this is not the I that makes the cup of coffee or tea, it's the body-mind that follows the impulse, the instinct. How we can reduce the suffering is to just not vacillate too much in the thinking. Because obviously the decision is not clear to be followed up yet. It is not made yet. It is not crisp. It didn't really arrive. So before it arrives, and I've been in that place, especially already having strong conceptual understanding.
I remember yelling at my guru in India, because this is important, just make the decision for me. And he just kept laughing and laughing. Really, how important is that? Whatever happens, whichever way will the life, will the dream go, whether you will stay or you go, or this happen or that happen, it will be just a different content of the dream. But what's really important is to recognize your true nature regardless of the content. Whether this happened or that happened, the possibility is to be free and complete and fulfilled no matter what. Because there may be more scenarios which we can't even see right now.
And I see there might be some answers because I see a couple of people from online group. Word equals ignorance equals learning equals thinking. That's from Amarna. And a love from British Julia. And Mirela says, thank you Bob for pointing out that seeking is the problem. But I must seek. If I don't seek, I daydream all day. Even seeking for the decision is a daydream. Seeking is the daydream. It's precisely being with what isn't right now. Seeking for completeness or fulfillment or something bigger or greater or light or something. It's basically saying it is not there. So it is being with imagination with what is not there.
Being with what is there is to acknowledging what you're seeking you already are. That love, that godliness. Yeah, you wanted to say something? Yeah. Okay, I'll continue because I have few more people. Sure. I just, what really keeps coming up for me is what Bob pointed to was there's no decision maker. Decisions are made but there's no decision maker. So I think it's important to see that this decision maker that we think we are, this me or this, you know, whatever, is just a narration upon that presence that you are. And it's the only way it can operate. It's in the pairs of opposites. And once you really, really see that, once you really see the me and the other person, place or thing, is always going to have a little story about what's going on.
I think it's good to see that there is and there never has been a decision maker or a me. But decisions are made. And the less you're sort of attached to that, the less you're going to be able to make decisions. And the more you're attaching onto the story, the me and the other story, the more you're in the spontaneous moment. And decisions are made and then the action follows. And when you really, really focus your attention on that, it's incredible. I mean, it's incredible how it just sort of appears in front of you. And you see the narration, which, you know, is always me and the other person.
And it's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible. And the me and the other can only work in the pairs of opposites. You see it going on. But that's surface stuff. You know, the actual decisions that's made is not of the mind. You're either attracted or repelled from something. Like Kat was pointing to the animals. They're either attracted or repelled from something. They don't have a big story about will I, won't I, should I, shouldn't I, blah, blah, blah. Because they don't have that capacity. But what happens is we attach to the narration. And that's the habit. That's the biggest habit to break. Yeah. We're just such habitual creatures.
But when we realize that there is only one and that everything is contained in that spontaneous moment, everything, you know. We stop focusing on the mind trying to make the decision. And we start being here right now. And those decisions will be made. But no decision maker, no me, no story. I might just say on that one that, yeah, as Bob said and Jane said, Kat says, the decision is made anyway. Decisions are made. And I was sort of thinking a bit like you might be on a path. You know, in the bush or something or somewhere. You're traveling along and you know there's an intersection coming up.
And you know that you want to go, you know, right. You know, take path X. And, you know, that decision sort of feels like it's made. And off you go down path X. Or you come to the intersection and you haven't made up your mind whether it's X or Y. You're not going to hang around there for long. But suddenly the inspiration will go, oh, go X. And you start going along that path. And you go, this is good or this is bad. Or I should have made this decision or I shouldn't have made that decision. But there's no I that made the decision. The decision came through an inspiration or that intelligence anyway.
And you go, I made a good decision or I made a bad decision. But there's no I making the decision. I was going to share sometimes on that. Now, sort of more where I'm coming from now is really just like the stuff that's coming up. But it's more like. I'm just sitting there just noticing. And I'm just noticing, oh, I wonder what's going to happen. I wonder what thought or decision is going to happen. Like I'm sort of going to be planning a holiday in like a month or so. And there's a few different options. And I'm just observing what's going to come into it.
Like the research or some inputs or some thoughts. And I'm just observing the whole thing playing out rather than it's me in there going, I'm going to do this or that. It's sort of like watching the space move. Yeah. With the thoughts and stuff. It feels a bit more like that. And like I went into PT the other day. I had nothing planned. And I was just like going, I've got nothing planned. But I'm just watching what's going to happen and what's going to get organized. And it was a lot less stressful. Fine. There's a few more inputs from people who are with us. Tanya says, hi, Bob.
Hi, Kat. There is no more seeking and have been. And have been asked to give guidance pointers. When in conversation about this, the words pointers don't come out so easily. Mostly there is a silence, no thought. I know the clear of expression of pointers guidance may come verbally or not. Laughing out loud. Any guidance on guiding, pointing to the truth? . Tanya, yes. Tanya does it all right. Yeah, you do all right, Tanya. Wait. Sometimes the guy, if silence shows up, that's what's needed. Sometimes I found that actually giving people space to find their own truth may work the best. Just ask them questions and see what they already know and recognize.
Because that's innate wisdom. Everybody already has it. Already. Right here, right now. Just find it. You may use the, you know, the tools. You may use the prompts. Like, you know, how clear is that? You know, it may not be that clear that when you ask people straight away, ah, do you know there's no self? Ah, nonsense, I am. Oh, yeah, but you know I am. You know, that's knowing. That's known. That's easy. You'll be guided. What we point out here is you're not the body and not the mind. I don't know whether you looked into that or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you the body?
Initially you'll say, my body. You say my coat, my car, my house. Maybe you know you're not the coat, the car or the house. Maybe you're not the body either. We'll investigate and see. What's the body made up of? You realize the body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Separate yourself from those elements if you can. Stop breathing. Take the water out of your body. Yeah. Get off the earth, get out of space. You realise you can't separate yourself from those elements. Those elements can be all reduced to subatomic particles into pure energy. So the body is only a vibrating pattern of energy.
The mind is the same. Show me your mind if you've got a mind. You'll say, my mind. And realise there's no mind apart from thought. And if mind is thought, which particular thought would you be? Well, you'd be that I am thought, wouldn't you? That's the primary thought. But you gladly give that thought up every night when you go to sleep. So you must realise you're not the thought. So that cancels the mind out, doesn't it? All these things come upon through that pattern that's expressing that pure intelligence, doesn't it? But we take them to be the personal instead of seeing what they are. Let me see.
Just how... I don't know whether it's a dumb question, but... When Nisargadatta Maharaj says, Watch as a witness of things happening. It's all happening due to Maya. When he says, watch, I'm using my mind and intellect. I'm using those equipments to... Then... How can I separate myself from mind and intellect to watch? If I... How can you separate yourself from the mind? So when Maharaj says that... Don't attach yourself to what's happening. You are separate from body, mind and intellect, which I understand. I'm not the body-mind complex, which I could... Which my mind is making me realise that. But when he says that... Watch everything...
Witness everything. Don't... You are not there in that. You are just a witness. But I can witness only with my mind and intellect. So how can I be... Well, at the same time, you kind of are the mind and intellect. You are everything. Right? So I love his pointer of intelligence energy. You know, because that for me just... Love that one. That intelligence energy is the thought. It is the mind. It is the intellect. It is the observing. It's everything. So that's how... That's what's... You are seeing yourself as that, as I am just this energy that's making the thought happen, that's doing... That's everything.
That is inclusive of that. Is it... I don't know if that's what I'm doing anyway. But that includes that. Go ahead. No, no. I think Bob wanted to address it. Can't be better than that. Right. I say, without a thought, you're still seeing? Aren't you? I say, you're seeing right now. You're not seeing. Right now. I say, you're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. You're seeing right now. now and you're hearing right now and see without the thought that's pure witnessing. When we describe it, put the word, the concept on it, we mix them.
Yes, that's good. He says that's very simple. I get it now. Yes, absolutely. This is just so simple that we miss it because of the simplicity of it. It's too obvious. It's already happening. You are the witnessing presence. Within you, the whole world arises. That's so simple and it's so obvious and it's so undeniable. You see, you close your eyes, the world disappears. You open your eyes, the world appears. So you are the presence, the witnessing, the presence of awareness. Everything comes and goes. So the whole Maya is just the way it vibrates like Julia was saying. It's too simple for the mind. Mind makes it complicated.
Oh, how do I separate myself to be this or that? Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is what creates the problem. Indirect experience is just, oh, right, of course, easy. That's how animals experience, how little babies experience it. They are already with it. I'll just read a couple of other inputs from people who are with us online. So this was Amarnath. Amarnath says, seeker was never born. How can he die? Still seeking can happen. That's the mystery. Be certain with uncertainty. Both are false. And a lot of smiles. And Mirela says, yes, the seeker thought, thoughts just pop up. No one's seeking. Thanks Amarnath. That's clear when I'm not in the dream, says Mirela.
And John D'Aquino says, I'm not in the dream. I'm not in the dream. And then David says, if you want to remember this visit, if you have love for me, remember this I am principle and without the command or direction of this principle, do nothing. And this is from Nisargadatta, the book prior to consciousness. And Amarnath says, lots of love, Jane. Missed you for a long time. Timeless, spaceless, impersonal being was apparently missing. So why was this being missing? Why was the sieker missing? Why was the seeker missing? absconding and Amarnath also says watching without I mind intellect and ego how beautiful is this blindness with brightness of love all doubts are arising in background of clarity what a mystery that is just costume of clarity beautiful Dale Allison says who is watching waiting asking what is going to happen what decision will I make which place will I plan to travel to yes who is the one who wants to know Julia has a nice take on it who gives a shit very Australian sailor type of a language yes but it's memorable so it's effective it is a good pointer yes and Amarnath says no one is traveling to the space of nothing where everything everyone present attachment and detachment are both illusions to whom are both voice in a head never touched us reflection of our heart see the you mirror first I am slowly mirror I'm also lost and a lot of faces and I'm not also says blah blah blah is best mantra to come out of mind thank you everyone got pregnant with truth today says John David and now anyone there's only one mile and a good and a flow i would never be a motivation there it's going to rest on the other side only three miles with women frankly with us is that TV this is for me my love the mountain also thank you yeah it's almost me do you have any affections yeah little as a little like well simon what to say uh...
oh uh... a team a a team me your feminine, your openness and that consciousness, that sky penetrates it already. Just in quiet it is clear and obvious. Thank you Peter, that's a good reminder. One male it is God and everything else is female. Maya, the dancing Maya. What a girl. Can you not love her? When this discussion here comes around to whether there is a doer or not, the doer would be the assertion that I am real in time and space. Nothing associated with that is ever more than a passing experience, isn't it? Nothing that I can postulate as being proof that I am real.
I am not. I am a mind, body and time and space hangs together, does it? It's always just falling apart. Any postulation that I make about myself or about what I, me, the me is doing, I like to say is an untenable outpost of exclusivity. Whenever we decide something is happening, we exclude everything else. We exclude everything else. But you know the whole process of life seems to be one of how long do we want to stretch the rubber band because everything is inherently one. And so this whole time and space experience really is just a stretching of the rubber band. It's like the insistence that yes, this is right and that's wrong.
And inevitably the rubber bands come together. And so it's a very, very complex process. It's a very complex process. It's a very complex process. It's a very complex process. It's a very complex process. It's a really complex process. And so it's a very complex process. And so it comes, brings it back together in wholeness, and that's all that's ever really going on. And when we, we lay back and we allow ourselves to be penetrated by God, what I mean by that is that we just allow everything to be just perfectly as it is. Even that, you know, the negative, the really negative things, isn't that true?
It's like all of the very positive, for that matter. We let them all be just. just as they are. It's an amazing thing really. Don't try to change anything. The best thing one can possibly do is just to invite everything to be seen in its entirety. And so we cover up things. This is how the ego works, isn't it? The mind in separation perpetuates separation by not by being still and looking between the thoughts. Not by being still and just letting things come to us. We are absolutely insistent on solving a problem. But as we just let everything that is rising out of us and rising before us be seen in its entirety without running to fill the gap with words and just letting it be there.
The agony of the loss of a loved one or the exultation of finally getting a degree or whatever. Swimming the English Channel. The interesting thing is that when you see these people who run the, get the gold medal or kick one through the big sticks, I do know. Anything like that. People ask, how does it feel? How does it feel to have the premiership flag in your hand now? And more often than not they say, well it hasn't hit me yet. It's like, but hey, you definitely have a chance to win the prize. I'd love to fight it with you. But all I'm saying is, you know, if we let everything be just as it is.
Now this requires a love really because in a sense because you have to let yourself be intimate with your world. That you have to reveal yourself to everything or reveal, open the mind, open the heart and see everything. Just give it a moment. Don't rush it. So, it's a matter of the imagination that we need to have. And we need to find a way to reveal, open the mind, open the heart and see everything. Just give it a moment. Don't rush it. And then you can get a wanker, you know, when you get a wanker but it's all about the imagination. When you feel theSuK and you feel the love of your life.
And that's your love, you know. When you feel the forerunner, to try and solve a problem. Just let it rise up and show you what it is. We've experienced something like that just recently, which was a beautiful, beautiful thing because at the end of the day we didn't leave with a grievance. We left with an exquisite deepening of our appreciation of the reality of what we are. Because in the end we just simply opened our hearts and allowed these seeming opposites to come rushing back in and be solved in the realisation and forgiveness that nothing really happened at all. So God bless every one of us who shows up, every thing that shows up, you know, the rubber band, the band that stretches so gracefully across the universe, joining all phenomena together and bringing them together.
And this huge swirl of coming together in wholeness in us is, you know, that's what life is. Thank you. Beautiful. Beautiful. I think I have another couple of comments. John David was saying that everyone got pregnant with truth today and Amarnath says, but miscarriage happened of false pregnancy notion, I am the personality. And Julia, British Julia says, no thought is conscious. Stay here. Amarnath, beautiful. Consciousness acting as unconscious in thought, action and actor are false. And Gilbert says, leave it as it is, too simple. Egotism says, there must be something I can contribute. Yeah. And Amarnath says, thanks, Peter. Movement of mind is not ours, is notion.
Nothing's happening on which appearance of happening is seen. Yes. And that's, that's the beauty of what Peter was expressing. Like really freedom is when you allow all the waves of whatever life brings and washes over you to come. Be it uncertainty, be it physical pain, be it fear, be it whatever. But you know that those waves are passing, moving through you because you are the totality, which is experiencing the waves. You don't have to fix them. You don't have to justify them, give them meaning, give them story. Just be completely present with whatever arises. And there is incredible freedom and incredible beauty, even in uncomfortable, comfortable situations.
Like Bob was saying of Kim Sing Ming, when the love and hate are both absent, and that doesn't mean love and hate. That means labels of pairs of opposite. And you left with the energy and the energy, of course it is constantly changing. It has so many ways of vibrating and just see that beauty, even offer energy that may be a little bit, making the body uncomfortable or shivering or crying or whatever the energy is doing. This is also going to pass through. It is going to change. And right here it is. If it is, it is to be loved and appreciated and embraced in the unconditional acceptance, because this is what life or God is giving itself to be experienced and embraced.
And yes, it takes you to the other side in a way that it reveals, it's gifts. So it is not like the personality Amarnath was saying, misconception or miscarriage will straight away come up with the story of victimization or wrongness or whatever the story. But you don't have to really leave that moment of intensity and trade it for a thought. Like Bob has this, uh, often quoting Bunky that, uh, everything's perfectly unborn. Uh, resolved in the unborn. Why trade it for thought for story? Why contrive it and kill it and alter it and modify it and make yourself right? Someone else wrong or the opposite.
There is a possibility for experiencing life in way which is much more profound and much more fulfilling, even in the moments of darkness or doubts or fear. Oh, uncertainty. Thank you. Cat. That's really wonderfully expressed. Thank you. It's beautiful. I mean, moment of, of loss, the train thought that thing interrupted my thought processes. So that's probably a good thing. I believe in the easy. Okay. Exactly. And it's true. Oh, yes. I've got it. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I just wanted to say that, you know, this moment, um, it is these moments that arise or everything that is arising. Really, I've, I've learned that the approach to it is really one of the heart because, you know, it, it's like it becomes extremely simple in as much that, oh yes, I, what, what, what is the action of self when you just simply reveal and let everything be just as it is, you know, it is, it is simply an expression of the heart.
Well, okay, I, I surrender. You know, I'll let, I'll let you be, I will stop opposing you. No, there is no mental, mental, there should not be a mental answer to that. One should not rush to a, well, I'm saying this, you know, I'm entirely wrong on many things, but, um, one should not rush, rush to a solution because with the mind, um, because, um, in order to escape some problem or to cover over something that's happening in your life, no, the simplicity of all, and this is where the, as you were saying, kept the beauty and the depth of this experience comes in is where you just simply open yourself.
And in that opening to what, what is it? Uh, it is, um, you know, an extremely simple nonmental act of love really, isn't it? Yeah, it is an act of love. It's the opening of the heart and allowing this that I have opposed violently before, allow that to rush in and flood me. In so doing, we always do. We're not always realize some kind of amazing beauty that results from it. Yeah, I was just thinking about what you were talking about earlier. Yeah, I was just thinking earlier about this idea of choice and no chooser. Sorry, Bob, I was just saying that I was just thinking just for thinking, you know, I probably said this 100 times, so I hesitate now to speak exactly.
I repeat, but when, um, I don't know, I've just, I'm just, I just feel like saying that this, this understanding that that there's no nobody making a choice. Wow. It's so that that was so helpful in my life. So game changing because there is a temptation to blame and should on situations and people I shouldn't have, you shouldn't he? Oh, you know, all the thoughts that I had about what should and shouldn't. And when you can investigate and see that, well, if it, if it was, it's what should be, but it should have been. But if it's, if it's here now, this is exactly what should be because it couldn't have been any other way.
And because there's nobody, well, when there's, it's seen that nobody did anything. Well, then that really just kind of kills the, the blaming. And if the blaming is killed, then then the judging is killed. You know, and with the judging and the blame both killed or both gone, no, seeing that nobody ever did anything I'm left with just as it is. It's just as it is, which to me is, is what I call love or the way I think of love. It doesn't necessarily have to feel this. I agree. This is the kind of stuff I would choose, you know, that doesn't, you know, but at the same time it is what I choose.
It's hard to explain, but it's, it's so, you know, God, it really has helped because there are times in my own life where I've been, um, you could go into the story of victimization quite easily. It's fine, isn't it? Oh, my God. And you, you know, but, but, uh, I, I, I, uh, not for a long time, it's not fun and it's not fun for a long time when seeing that, that person who I would've claimed was a person doing this couldn't have done anything else. She's like the two year old with a gun, you know, who kills somebody, you know that nobody blames the two year old, do we?
Yeah. Well, in a way, we're all that two year old. Um, And that just, it's just, it just makes it easier to see that, you know, what comes actually, what happens is retrospect. We look back on what seemingly happened, and I say seemingly because it's all in your head now, and it's going to change with new insight and time and all that stuff. So when we look back, there's just the naming and the claiming. I did it, she did it, he did it. But there's just seemingly doing. And that just takes the sting away. So I just love this message. Anyway, here you go. To me, every thought and every opinion, everything that occurs, every problem, is really just a child of my own that, you know, in the greater awareness, in this sense of pure awareness that I am, that I bring home, you know, through letting everything be just as it is.
Extend love to everything that I am. I have judged, put out, you know, cast outside myself. The awareness, the sense of being, the vast field of awareness. I'm like a mother that is just simply bringing home a lost child and saying, all right, I'll let you be, and you can rest now, you know, on the, in the bosom of awareness that I truly am. Thank you. Anyone else want to say something? It was funny. I was just observing that whole thing again. There was a response that came up from some comments online like, oh, is it Vader police and spiritual ego and being corrected? And I just watched all those thoughts bubble up with the emotion.
I was just observing them and the story sort of coming up and then dissolving and then the space again. So it was just. I think it's naive to think everything's peachy and that. Like there's going to be some emotions that from the old self would feel like uncomfortable and that's, they're mine and I need to defend that and all that sort of stuff and then dissolving without needing to defend anything, like sort of thing. Yeah, so. What just kept coming up from the conversation before about leaving things as they are, come from a different perspective. Yeah. So you were talking about the 12-step background and there was just a cute little saying was, I can't, you can, I think I'll let you.
And, of course, the I is the mind, the you is that presence or awareness that you are and the letting go of the mind. So I can't, you can, I think I'll let you. It's just a very quick, sharp pointer to let it go, basically. Not that there's anyone to let it go. But. Yeah, that's what was just coming up for me. I like that. Yeah. Meaning the you is the I. The I is I can't, that's the mind, you can, that's the presence that you are, or the totality and the I is the mind letting go to let the totality leave things as they are.
So I can't, you can, I think I'll let you. So in other words, what Peter was saying, before I give up, it's the same sort of thing. It's just a few more little pointers in there. I've got the thing. No. You want to say something, Peter? No, absolutely not. Oh, why not? Yeah, that's a beautiful summary of all 12 steps of the 12-step programs. I can't, God or higher power can let him. And those, every point has like three steps. So you can't do anything. You can't do anything. You can't do anything. You're not the doer. How could you do anything? You're not even there.
That's right. But there is a power greater than yourself that is beating your heart, that is organizing the universe. That's breathing you at night. Breathing you at night. Yes. And that power, that can do anything. So get out of the way and let the power that has the power stop dreaming that you are the doer. That's a beautiful summary. Yeah, that really does help with when you're like wanting to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. And there is, we have the comment, that was actually a great question from Mirela. When you let everything be, where does attention rest? So you have this beautiful saying about leaving things as they are in unfixated awareness.
Yeah, unaltered, unnotified, uncorrected. In unfixated awareness, we're seeing, hearing. Can you speak it out? Where does the attention rest? The attention, unfixated awareness. Do you want to elaborate? Let it rest in its uncontrolled singularity. Yeah, and you also say sometimes that, you know, we exclusively and habitually focus the attention in the thinking. And there is a lot happening in the present experiencing, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. And very often that attention is not there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there.
It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. It's there. in the seeing, tasting, touching, smelling. And this will be picked out just like you see the animals in the wild. They always with what is, they always present. And if any of the senses needs to be utilized, it just jump in front and it is being utilized. And that's the optimal way of being.
And of course being human, it includes the planning, thinking when is necessary and not constantly, not in a way that is making us dysfunctional and suffering. And of course, it doesn't mean that we can stop thinking and employ thinking only when we decide because there is no we, there is no us to do anything. But the recognition of the unproductive imagination is the invitation. When you recognize that there is a processing, imagining, revisiting, making meaning and writing stories when this one is happening and you recognize that it is happening and you leave it as it is. And part of that attention, which recognizes it is already back home.
It's already sky like or space like presence in which that churning of the mind is happening. And then it isn't personal anymore. Did you want to say something? Thank you. Just before we get to our final segment. No, we won't do that. Okay. Sorry. I was going to say, yeah, sure. Totally forgotten. So here, I'm sorry. You want to say something? No. Did you want to say something? No, but like, oh, it's here. So yeah, like, yeah, that attention thing you're talking about is, it applies to the choice maker, the chooser, the non-doer. It applies to everything. It applies to the witness. And it's a, what is it?
It's like there's a magnifying glass and all the attention is focused on a narrative, on the story. And then you see that that's useless. The magnifying glass gets thrown away and all of a sudden everything's included. So the good and bad become so much easier. The flow is just, because there's no magnifying glass. You think some of the people walking around believing that the universe exists in a little narrative, just here, or just behind the eyes, or just the back of the head. And it's not true. And attention somehow seeing this over and over again, attention stops focusing on that. The magnifying glass is just thrown out the window.
And like Pete was saying before, everything is heartfelt after that, because the attention was, there's no more focus here. So everything's included. And it's not just the glass. It's the attention. It's the attention. It's the intention. It's the intention. It's the intention. It's the intention. It's the intention. And there can't be an issue. And there can't be an issue with a choice or being a doer. Because there's no attention on a me that's going to make the right decision or wrong decision or good choice or bad choice. And there's not even a me that's choosing to soften their attention. Yay! Yes, exactly. Yeah. Thanks, Dan.
It's like, actually what we become is just simply the action of, love, the action of forgiveness, the action of inclusion. We're not anything at all. There is no self there. It's like, as we keep saying that, however, we often say it with the inference that there is someone there, a me here that gets that part of it as well. There is no me ever. Even the most exalted thing, there's no me to get that, and there's no me down in the dross, to get that either. We are just simply this action, this energy, this movement of energy in truth. Yeah, and so Dino, ladies and gentlemen, it's great to have Dino in the studio again.
No, no, no. He's a bit reluctant today. I think there's only a few minutes left. Okay, I have a couple more comments. There is one from Vivek. No need to notice, run after waves. No importance to waves. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Rewinding a little bit, what you said that we are not doers, right? Someone is planning everything. So the universe is planning, the eye is planning everything. Right? In the universe. So where is free view? That's my question. What's your question? If something is, if someone is managing whatever entity or power, where is free view? I've read in Bhagavad Gita as well, like Krishna says that you do what I want and what you want will follow.
But then where is free view? Yeah. So what is free view? You want to stop thinking and go with the flow? Or should we keep stressing about what's going to happen? What am I supposed to do? These questions arise from there. This is the confusion. So if this question is answered, a lot of problems might get solved. Thank you. What needs to happen then just, who is the questioner that wants to know? The questioner, just another thought coming up. And there is a seeming free will. There are seeming choices. There are seeming doers. The whole brilliance of that Maya is totally, totally convincing. It looks like there is someone there, some little dwarf that is doing decisions, that is having free will.
It feels like there is somebody there driving that bus. Somebody that is beating the heart. Nobody has ever found anyone beating the heart. So obviously there is no free will in that. But it seems like there is a free will to perhaps do your meditation practice or not. Am I going to do it or am I not going to? Oh yeah, I have choice. It's a seeming choice in that. There are seeming choices to go with the flow or go against the flow. But do you know your next thought? You don't. So the next thought will arise according to the collaboration of every single force in the universe.
According to the weather, to your parents, to your diet, to your influences, your childhood traumas. All of that will constitute the next thought. So we can say, oh yeah, but I have free will to follow that thought or not. But even that is a thought. So basically even though there is a free will. Basically even though there is a very strong persistent illusion of separate self, or separate soul that has free will. When you really look deeper into it, you see that all the choices are conditioned. And they are preconditioned by the collaboration of the whole universe. And that's another proof that there is no separation.
You are not separated of all those forces that influence you. In fact. All the forces happen within your presence. Your body, your mind, the next thought, every thought, happen within your presence. Illusion of free will also happen within your presence. Doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing is a narrative. We've been conditioned to follow the narrative. We have moral codes, you know, that I will be good and not bad. Can I change it? Do I have free will now to stop it? And for example decide. Okay, this world is all illusion. So I'll go and steal and rape and do whatever. No, I can't do that.
Because that thought in that body conditioned the way it was. It basically won't create action. It won't resonate. But it still feels like I have that choice. But do I? It can't produce any action. But it is a really valid question. It's a question that is really, many people struggle with. Like, feels there is a self that has free will. And Jesus told us we have free will. And Krishna told us we have free will. And yes, that's how you communicate. Within the dream, you seemingly choose to have family or choose to go to work or choose to do good rather than bad. And all that feeds the dream.
In the dream, we have the illusion of free will. Like, we have the separate bodies. Even though we know the truth. That's, darling, you're disconnecting the sound. Oh, yeah. I'll just read. There's another couple of answers from people who are online. The one before you asked the question that Vivek was saying. No need to notice, run after waves. No importance to waves. I am the water. Calmness, love, peace. Everything is one. Yes. And the waves are just the water. Beautiful, Vivek. And Amina says, thanks God language is expression of universal silence, cosmic joke. No speaker or listener or commentator. Mirela says, beautiful. Did you want to?
Yeah. Yeah. See, we keep falling back into the trap. Choice maker, free will, and all the rest of it. No choice maker. Choices are made. No. You know what I mean? Natural, spontaneous functioning via. It's going on. Not a tribute to anybody. Just as it is. So you can postulate all these things and go into them if you like, but you're back in the trap. What is wrong with right now if you don't think about it? The will is free, but the. Yeah. Beautiful clip. Yeah. Will is free, but no one has it. I wanted to pick up on what you said about, you know, being stressed about what's going to happen in the future.
When you see that time is a concept as well, it helps you just be right here right now because time is a concept as well, as well as this me that is having free will. It's just all a story basically. And once you see the thing about time, as well as you see the thing about the me, which is the mind. Yeah. Which is trying to, you know, figure everything out. There's no answers in the mind. And time is a concept. There is only now. And choices will be made. Actions will happen. You said, oh, maybe, you know, I should stop having free will and just let go with the flow.
Well, when you go with the flow, you notice that thoughts will appear upon that flow. But but there's no separation. There isn't you having a thought that you're not going to have a free will. There's no separation. There's no separation. There's no separation. There's no separation. There's no thought. There's just the mind having the narration about what's flowing now. And you'll if you really start to watch, you'll see that things will just, you know, naturally happen. You're saying there shouldn't be any resistance. Exactly. Exactly. You got it. That's it. You got it. To be. That you got it ? That was great. Can you say that again.
Yeah. Say that again. Everyone hears it, resistance is conflict. I say resistance is conflict. Conflict is disease. You know, in this conflict and thinking about it and makes you uneasy, that's disease. Whichever way something comes up, you like it, and you don't want it to go, not realise that everything's transient. It's going to change, no matter how much you love it. You don't want it to go, so what do we do? We try to keep it there, so we resist it. And that resistance is conflict and disease. Something comes up you don't like, and again, we don't want it, we shouldn't be thinking this, so we resist it again.
And more conflict, more disease. So all our problems, psychological problems, come about from this resistance. Only me can be fearful, only me can be angry. Unhappy, depressed, guilty. Me is the cause. I'm the cause of all my psychological suffering. And the effects are the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, and all the effects of the cause. That's all the so-called karma is, cause and effect. What happens if I ask the question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause? So if you've done away with your karma. You've done away with the karma. When you see that there can't be an effect if you're not relating to a cause, then there's nobody here to have karma.
Yeah. Nobody here to reincarnate either. I didn't come up with the karma the way it's in vain. But I was thinking about what you were saying. I think because I was kind of exiting the room. But I caught a little piece about at least something that maybe you were thinking there might be some divine planner or something or a plan somehow. There's a planning or whatever. And the first thought that came, go ahead. I was referring because what she said. If you think you are, that's what I was saying. Right, yeah. Yeah. But that there's a, yeah. There's something planning because that was a word I heard.
Not when you get the word right. OK. All right. That's fine. Yes, and I think we're going to just wrap it up everyone now. Because we have tons of nice comments and questions. And perhaps like a meeting starts, there was nothing. Good morning. Yes, so if anyone would wish to join Bob on Zoom tomorrow morning, that is the evening, Saturday evening for America. OK. Oh, no, is it Sunday evening? Saturday evening is now. Yes, so there will be more opportunity to discuss those things. Apart from that, welcome everyone next Sunday. And we have Zooms also on Tuesdays and Thursdays night. And those questions, sorry everyone.
There is like 27 people who are commenting, we didn't really make it. We'll start the next meeting after the spiel from addressing all those beautiful sharing. So sorry we didn't make it this time, but it's going to happen. Thank you so much. Thank you. And the articles are being liked. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.