Sailor Bob and the nonduality folks - joyous expression of current experiencing. 24 Apr 2022

So that is what it does, it vibrates into patterns, shapes and forms, the body-mind, the trees, the flowers, everything, the insects, the ants. But it's all that and experiences and expresses through these patterns. But no thing has really ever happened because what's it all appearing? It appears in this seeming thing we're sitting in right now, space. Have a look at space. It's empty. All these patterns, shapes and forms are appearing in it, seeming separate and apart from it. But if you investigate, they can all be broken down into subatomic particles in the pure energy or space into no thing. All this manifestation is the content of space.

Can you postulate or think of anything outside of space? Have a look into that and see when you realize you can't postulate or imagine or anything outside of space. You must realize or recognize that it is only the content of space and space is no thing and you and I are things. The trees, the flowers and all the manifestation out there which we put words on are all things. Can something come from no thing? It can't come. So all these apparent things are nothing. That includes you and me. We feel as though we are something, this person, shape and form, but that's the capacity of intelligence and energy that formed it and is expressing through each pattern, shape and form and it has the capacity of reasoning, thinking in that knowingness and reasoning.

So in the amazing ways it can appear into express, implies it's suffused with the innate intelligence. Intelligence is knowing, not your intellects that know this or know that, but the same intelligence is rolling the earth around the Sun, causing the plants to grow and the flowers to bloom, volcanoes to implode or explode. Tides to come in and out, seasons to come and go. It's breathing you, beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails. Doesn't that imply it's suffused with the innate intelligence? Having the capacity to form all these things and do all these things? But what have we done? With that capacity of reasoning that we're suffused with, we've learnt words or concepts and we learned word language.

We've learnt words like I, I am. Instead of seeing everything as that am-ness or awareness or knowingness, we take it to be this personal. When we learn the word I, we've taken it and put it on this seeming personal image. I am Bob, the Australian. Instead of I am the absolute or the great perfection, I am the only at all that is. Because it seems to be many looking around us, we've labelled it as personal. And see what that's done to us. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing. What can you take away from it? It just is. It vibrates in its opposites, the pairs of opposites, seeming dualistically.

But it's inseparable. It's indivisible. And if you look into that, indivisibility and separableness, what can you ever want of anything else if you're inseparable from it? What can you fear from anybody or anything else if you're inseparable from it? Who is ever superior to you if you're not separate from it? Who is inferior to you? What about all these so-called needs and wants? Does the absolute need anything? If it's all there, already, it appears there. But you see, we've separated and it doesn't belong to me. It's not mine. And so it causes problems. But not really. Everything is me and everything is mine. It's all absolute.

There's no separation from it whatsoever. And you and I and everything else is that. Absoluteness. Or what they call in Buddhism the great perfection. And the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Now have a look. Again, investigate and go along. Are any of you unaware right now? Or not being? No, you know, I'm not unaware. So I must be aware. And I can't negate my beingness. The beingness, I call it my beingness. But the beingness that is me, that's patterning, shaping, and forming and expressing as me, it's not mine. Me or mind, the pattern, shape, and form that is appearing, can't do anything at all. Because it's a fiction.

It has no substance or any independent nature or no reality. It only appears to be solid or real. It's suffused with intelligence, the activity of knowing. But as I say, instead of seeing it, as the being, knowing, and loving to be, we attach to disbelieved in person. Patterns, the shape and form that I call me. I am so and so. I was born. Can you remember your birth? Can you say this is when I appeared, I was born? You can't. Why? Well, purely and simply because you had no words. You've got to have a word to say, I was born or I am here. And you didn't pick up any words until you were about two, two and a half.

And a capacity of reasoning developed in you. When you were a little baby, you were seeing, you were hearing, you were tasting, touching, smelling, the functioning was going on. But you had no words. You couldn't describe it or say anything at all about it. But the life was there. The beingness was there. And you are that beingness, the being-life. Now, what have we done? I've learnt these words. I've transferred it to this me, I am Bob, that my parents tell me. I've learnt the words from the parents. Then went to school and learnt more words. Continued to add words and concepts and ideas. Now I've taken the word to be real.

But is any word real? Take the word water. Drink it if you can. Take the word fire. cook with it or burn yourself or eat yourself with it. You can't. Go to the edge of the earth. We look out to the sea and the sky meet the horizon. It looks like that's the edge of the earth. Go to the edge of the earth if you can and see if you can fall off. You can't because the earth is not flat. It appears to be. All these things which we put labels or words on, none of it was named or words. Everything was just as it is.

But you can't do much with that when we're children or when we become adults because the capacity of reasoning, when it develops, we were able to do a lot more and be able to protect ourselves a lot more from other things. And in tune with that awareness or life essence, being in a tune, let it function as it is. And just the same as that, it's rolling the earth around the sun, seasons coming and going, the tides coming out and the planets, stars falling, volcanoes, semantics and everything. So it's breathing you, beating your heart, growing your hair and everything else, causing these thoughts, feelings and emotions to arise.

And are we gonna put the same meaning into them and same label on them? If you realise it's not the separate entity, the same individual, this personal thing that's doing it, that it's happening without that, the breathing, the heart beating, the hair and fingers, the same essence that's flapping and shaping and forming all the other things in the earth. It's happening, expressing, forming and shaping it. And the forms break down, go back into the emptiness again, into the space. And other forms appear out of the space, but it's not the same, exactly the same pattern, shape and form. But it is the same life, or essence, which is in everything.

It's in the cat, the birds, the animals, the flowers and the trees and everything. All of that sentience, all life essence, it's a fusion of all. And you are that life. So are these, all these so-called other things, the they, and the this and that. It's all the one essence, it's pattern, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. We've shut ourselves off in the belief that we are this personal. And the person, word person, like a lot of other words, come from an ancient language, Latin, persona, the mask. And the mask we've got upon ourselves is this conceptual image. That I'm a body, that I'm a mind, that I am this separate entity.

But it's only a minute expression in this absolute. And it hasn't divided itself or separated itself from the absolute, it's still the absolute. But with those words and concepts, and the ideas that come from it, we've divided it and seemingly taken it from itself. I am this person. I am this body. I am this mind. I am this reality. Not at all. The essence that forms those patterns that you have is the reality. And that's what you call the awareness, the knowingness, the cognizing functioning that's in that body. And it needs a pattern to express through. So it forms this body-mind essence, and it's a body-mind.

It's a body-mind essence and it expresses. And the words are coming out of this mouth. It needs a mouthpiece to express through. So it's got this body that's formed in it. It's got a heart, lungs, air, all the things. Brain, now if it didn't have a brain, what could it express? Didn't have a heart and breathing. What could it do about the pattern shapes it forms? Could it feel? Could it taste? Could it touch? Could it hear? Any of the senses? Any of the sensations? The sound going out there in the space, in the movement of space, but that sound can't say, listen, I'm here, I'm a good fella, or a bad fella, or I'm no good.

It's just the vibration, the primary sound, the vibration, om, the great moan of the universe. So it hasn't divided itself further into pattern shapes and forms that have these words, and can then express them. It can speak, say them, and re-express them through this thing called mind. So the bodies are necessary to express through, but the body is not the reality. And you as the person is not the reality. But as the very life itself, you are. Because that life is not separate. You can't divide it. It's absolute. So it breaks itself down so it's able to express in these different pattern shapes and forms.

In the insects, in the birds, and the people and everything in it. So it's all that one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, expressing as everything. And you are that. Investigate and see for yourself. We have this capacity of reasoning, and that's a very useful capacity. But like everything else, it's a vibration. It's all a vibrating pattern of energy. And in that vibration, it divides. Look at the way things vibrate. As Shakespeare tells you, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. The thinking is going on, and what does it do? See how your thought functions. You read it in the past, which is memory, the future, which is anticipation, imagination.

It's either good, it's bad, it's pleasant, it's painful. Words we put on the things that are going on. Happy, it's sad. Loving, hating, positive, negativity. All vibrating, that's the only way anything can vibrate. Got two ends to it, seeming to, goes a certain direction. Can't go any further, turns and comes back. Like as I say, the stick's got two ends to it. The coin's got two sides to it. But that's the same thing that's vibrating. The gold and silver earrings, watches and things like that, they're still only gold. Things made out of gold. But see the label we put on them and discriminate them? Doing it with everything.

And take it to be different. But what we're on about is recognising and realising, recognising and realising and knowing your true nature. Your reality. I am that. So I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, that's having a bad trot, likes this, doesn't like that, and wants it. I am the absolute. And let that, absolute essence, express through you. It's not a matter of anyone letting it. How can they? That's why we say when we think we're going to become something, or try and get something, we think this person has some individual power of its own. But it hasn't. It's still the one essence. Whether it's expressing as something dualistic, or anything, or anything, it's the same.

Whether it's being dualistic or unhappy or fearful or anxious, it's still the same essence. And what have we done? With this capacity of reasoning we've put the words on it. Our nature doesn't put any words or labels on it. So nature's not concerned with day or night, light or darkness, winter or summer, high or low. But that's the problem. It's no thing. But what's the use of having all this wonderful, wondrous, amazing thing. nature as it is and the pattern, shapes and forms if there was no one or no thing that could recognise it. So this personal seeming pattern has the capacity of doing that, looking at things, seeing things, working things out.

The same essence that's forming it is doing it all. Patterning, shaping, forming has that reasoning capacity also. And so it's just, it is just a mouthpiece to express through this pattern. How does it come into existence? We'll go back as far as your father and your mother, two patterns. That animating life essence, that intelligence energy, that pattern shapes and forms your father through the essence of the food he's eaten. He has the capacity of eating food and breathing and doing all the things. That pattern has the capacity. I'm not saying he... I'm not saying he's a good cook. I'm not saying he's a good cook.

I'm not saying he's a good cook. I'm not saying he's a good cook. I'm not saying he's a good cook. It's just the... I can't think of anything else. To express and breathe and do all these things, implying it's suffused with an innate intelligence, a knowingness, and that functioning in... innate intelligence in that pattern called the body enabled in that pattern a microscopic particle called a sperm to form, a little blob of glue. You can't see it with the naked eye. And it is suffused with that innate intelligence energy. It knows what to do. And the same in your mother. That animating life essence in your mother, again through the essence of the food.

So the food has its place. It's helping keeping this pattern going. And the breath didn't have the elements in it, the oxygen and all the other air and things like that. It couldn't have any life. Enabled in the other pattern, another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form. And that egg or ovum is suffused with that intelligence. It knows what to do. It attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. Did you think it could do that? If it was just that blob of goo when it comes out of it? It couldn't. So it's not. It's not. It's suffused with the knowing there and what enabled it where to go and what to do.

And the sperm swam to the ovum. Put it under a microscope and see. You'll see it has the capacity of swimming. And when those two came together, the genes and whatever else is in it doubled that cell and redoubled it again and again with the food, the prana and the breath, enabling it to grow and double and form the little fetus, the little embryo. And the sperm swam to the ovum. And the sperm swam to the ovum. And the sperm swam to the ovum. And the sperm swam to the ovum. And the sperm swam to the ovum. Which is what you are today. How many words did you have then?

None. Could you say, I'm going to do this or going to do that? You couldn't while you were growing. You didn't even have a brain at certain stages. But that innate intelligence that's forming it, that's living it, that's growing it, has the capacity of knowing, or the intelligence and knowing, what to do. And even today, we're still doing it. We're still doing it. We're still doing it. And when the words come about, the reasoning, through the pattern, it has that capacity of doing it. And we've taken on the idea that I'm thinking, I'm reasoning, I can do this, I can do that. Never could, never would, or never will be able to.

It is life itself, godliness if you like to call it, that a lot of us have been into these positions that have formed around it, because people recognized there was more to it than just being a person, a human body, and gone into the intelligence. Things have come up in that intelligence and reasoning, the capacity, and they come to the conclusion there's a greater power than what this I am, this sense of presence that functions as the thought I am. And taken to be this body, the I am, the sense of presence is much greater than that. But the body thinks it's taken on and thinks it is, it has the power and the intelligence to do these things.

And it immediately falls apart, doesn't it? Because we learn words, take the words to be real, and then we put images and labels on these words. And labels like fear. And fear. Anxiety, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, unhappiness, depression, jealousy, envy. Put all these labels on instead of existence, consciousness, bliss, or being, knowing, and loving to be. So they've broken it down from the absolute into the separate entity, the individual. And taken it to be a personal self. But even these great things. Even these great traditions that have been down the line. Oh, it'll tell you. It's absolute. There is only one self, one Atman, one God, if you like to use that term.

But they take it to be separate. Not recognising that it's all expressing. It's the oneness expressing. It's indivisible. You can't divide it. It's inseparable. You can't separate. But the thoughts, the words, the ideas, the concepts are constantly dividing and separating. And what happens? All these concepts get louder and stronger. The fears, the anxiety, the depression, the guilt, the shame. They get more seemingly, what did you call it, seeming more have seeming power to themselves. And seeming. Have the capacity. The capacity of doing things and all the rest of it. And we seem to get locked into them all and suffer more and more because of that.

More fear, more anxiety, more stress, more unhappiness, more woes, more this, that and the other. And more guilt and jealousy and fear and envy come up. We become nutcases, a lot of us. Ratbags. All because we've taken on a belief. Another word, we've taken on a lot of words. But have a look at this word belief. See, it's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. It means we haven't looked at it, investigated it and reasoned it out. People tell you it is a body. They told me I was Bob the Australian. I didn't question it. I took it as a belief. And believed it.

When I went to school, they reinforced it more and more. Wherever I went, it was reinforced. And I began reinforcing myself and locked into it. And the suffering and activities became worse. But fortunately, it all worked. There was a recognition that there had to be more to it than this. And I started to look at some of these other traditions. They seemed to be pointing to something a bit further. And in looking along those lines, it proved to be true. And I saw, or woke up, or whatever you like to call it, the capacity of recognising much more to it than what the reasoning was.

There was this thing that I called awareness. I wasn't unaware. As they described it in some of those great traditions, the Sat Yedinanda, Nama Rupa, existence, consciousness, bliss, name and form. The five factors they'd investigated. I need to ask myself, am I existing right now? Well, what I know as existence, yes. That existence is here. I know this life, this beingness, as existence. Am I unaware? I can't tell you what awareness is, but I know, and what they're pointing to, and recognise that I'm not unaware. I'm aware, I'm knowing right now and seeing. There's an awareness or consciousness here. And the consciousness comes up, and that's all these other objects, these pure pattern-shapes, pattern-shapes and forms, are now labelled, and there's a consciousness of them.

From that awareness, the consciousness is seeming gone a step further, because if that awareness wasn't there, the consciousness couldn't be there. So now I'm this human, believed in this human pattern. And when they tell me it's a cognising emptiness, an emptiness that had the capacity of cognising, which is another word for knowing, or awareing, or being, and they call it, the Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. Telling me that this emptiness, this cognising, has that capacity of knowing, being, knowing and loving to be. And he made the statement that emptiness is form. It's that cognising emptiness that is patterning, shaping, forming, you, me, and everything in this room, and everywhere else.

Turned it around the other way and said, the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. Pointing out it's the same thing, it's still the one essence. It's appearing and doing all these things, but it's still only the emptiness that's doing it. It has the capacity of knowing, patterning, shaping, forming and vibrating into all this manifestation. So in recognising that, and seeing, and investigating, I see it can't be negated, it is. Like, if it's false, as they tell you, investigate, the false cannot stand up to investigation. Well this can stand up to investigation, because it is the truth. I am not the person, I am not the individual, I am not the separate entity.

I am the life itself. Like a fella, there was a round a few years ago, they called him Christ, and he says, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about that pattern, he called it something, he wasn't. He was talking about the true I am-ness. The sense of presence. Not the thought I am. The sense of presence. Anyone who is not aware or present right now, how can you say that? Isn't there a sense of that there? The sense of being, of knowing, which we haven't described in any word, but when we do, we put different labels on it, which start to pollute it, and corrupt it, and lose it.

I am Bob the Australian, do we think that's the sense of presence? I am... But life itself, the being itself, is a sense of presence. So, that's what we need to do. Yeah, well you mightn't need to, but if something comes along, that things aren't going well enough for you, maybe you think you've got to look a little bit further, and you look into some of the scriptural sources, and some of the statements, and see you don't get... They move you along certain pathways, but you can't seem to get any further with them. And you've got to take that final step for yourself. Because nobody can ever do it for you.

How can they? When there is no body, no mind, no person, no thing. It's all a separate entity. It's a patterning, shoving and fulling, and appearing as everything. Think some other appearance is going to tell this appearance that you are, what to do, or how to get there. Impossible. So it needs to question, and look into it, and see for yourself. Isn't there a seeing there right now? Before you say, I see, and I see this, and I see that, and put the certain shapes and forms, and concepts and labels on the seeing? Isn't in the immediacy it's pure seeing? Pure hearing? Pure thinking? Tasting, touching, smelling?

Have a look and see, whether we're pointing at, what we're pointing at is true or not, that you've divided it. That it's been divided. And you think that the so-called you is dividing it. But have a look and see who this you is. Who am I? What am I? And what's that primary thought? It's the thought, I am. That's when the I seemingly comes in it, to it in the first place, before we attach other things to it. I am. The I am is something that's happening right now in this immediacy. It's not I was, or I will be, or I can be, or I might be.

It's I am. Aren't you all knowing that immediately? And what is it? It's a sense of presence, of being aware of knowing, right in this immediacy. Isn't it? So, as Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. You can say that, and know for certain that you are that. And there's the that again, that we talked about earlier. I am is that. That is what I am. Innately you know that, because that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, everything is already that. But it's not good enough to discriminate it. We put labels on it.

Put the chair, the table, the carpet, everything else on it. To divide it, and give it a sense of something different. So we say, start with the fact, whether you know it or not, that you are already that. And that saves a hell of a lot. Because you've been starting with the fact, which we have been doing, that I am this person, that I've got to become real, I've got to meditate, and realise, and know the truth, and become real. It doesn't happen. Because how can what you already are become anything more? It is absolute. That's all I can point out to you. I ask you to look along those lines and see for yourself.

Question it. And if you've got any questions here, question it. And some of you are seeing it and knowing it. And the point, that's a sign already that you've moved further from what the ordinary great traditions tell us, that have stuck in the idea that there is a God, a higher power, and there is this separate entity, this being, this is a sinner. And if it does this and does that, will become realised, or whole, or complete? Got you on a long journey, a story, that has a beginning and an end. But if you are presently aware right now, when does that begin? When does that now begin?

When you realise it must be beginning right now. I'm aware right in this moment, this presence. Does it have any ending? Well, it's already ending, but it's beginning again. It hasn't got a time to be completely ending. It's a vibration. Whereas the thoughts or the words and the stories have a beginning and have an end. And we've done that with the words we've learnt. Instead of seeing there's two ends of the one stick, this is good, and it turns into the bad, we try to get rid of the bad. We try to keep the good and get rid of the bad. Instead of realising there's still the one stick, and if you turn the coin over, you'll see the other side of it.

If you leave the thoughts as they are, the bad will change. If you're not fixating on it, not sticking on it, it'll come back to the good again, and the good will change, and go back to the bad or something again. Because it's constantly vibrating, constantly changing. The manifestation itself is transient. Thousands of cells are dying in that body right now. And amazingly enough, and wonderfully enough, they're being replaced. Being replaced is not the same body you walked into the room. So when you say, I am that, you're not that static image. You are the transient itself, the movement, the intelligence energy that's constantly vibrating and living.

Know that for certain. Recognise it. It's entirely up to the so-called you, the pure being that you are, in recognising its own true nature. So away you go. Want to say something, Kat? Any questions? Hi everyone, and hi everyone who is with us online. I have a lot of good morning messages and love messages, and I have a few really brilliant reminders from our Bill. So he says, Bob says you won't get this with the mind. That's the main point. Who's that? Bill. Bill. Yeah. And now Benjamin, it says ego mind is dividing it. And Bill says, you, the body mind, will not get this.

You could get, how could you get this? There would be you getting it. Impossible. That's a good nice, nice logical proof of impossibility of getting it. Brilliant. And Blazenka says, thank you. Bill says, freedom is not for the body mind. It is from the body mind. Yes, recognise what you are not. And what's the name? When the, that's Bill again, when reality strikes, so to speak, you will not be there. That would be duality. Yeah, that's a, that's a brilliant reminder for everyone who is looking for enlightenment or liberation. The one who is to be enlightened or liberated is illusion, is an image. That is, that liberation is the freedom from that image.

So there's no one there to be enlightened. And that's the point of the Bible. Benjamin is saying, Bob, when and where and why does duality first occur? I know there is a paradox in that and the presence, awareness is timeless. Also that the heart, heart develops before the mind. But the big question is, why duality came to be? Why not? That's the best answer. Because it can. It's spontaneously, it's spontaneously happening. It's timeless. When does now begin? You can't grab now. As you're saying, now it's ending already. And as it's ending, it's beginning again. So you take away the concept of time. It tells you, in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

All things were made by Him, by the Word. That's a seeming somewhat of a beginning. But nothing's ever happened. It's inseparable. You can't find a beginning. You can't find a time. Is there a past if you don't think about it? What can you say without, out of thought? You can't even negate that beingness. You can't say it just is. So any sort of why questions are always questions that invites the story. You can say why because the duality wanted to experience itself, or why because awakening wouldn't be possible if you don't fall asleep. Why because there is a, whatever the story is. The problem is habituating more stories and more questions inviting the mind to answer is looking into the wrong direction.

Like we said initially, the answer is not in the mind. It can't be found there. And the question why is the question which calls for the mind. And no answer will be true. No answer will be the reality. Why duality? John David says, the conviction Bob speaks from has lit the fire that blazes in my heart. It has been guiding light in this life. I love you Bob and Kat. That's John, John David. We love you too John. Thank you. Yes, it is the heart that resonates. It is not the mind that gets the right answers. Why is it happening? How is it happening? When it started?

Where it started? Those are obviously, you know, if those come up, they sometimes it is helpful to get them dispelled. So the mind get quiet. Initially that helps to just look deeper. But ultimately, those are just provisionally answers. Those are just to really pacify that narrative. They are not ultimate answers. Ultimate answer is from here, from the sense of presence, the being, the obviousness, the undeniability of it. The fact that it is, it can't be questioned. It stands up to investigation as Bob says. Nothing else does. But existence is the only thing that stands up. You may discard it all you want, but it stays there.

You have to be there to discard it. The being. That's so. Going back to the other thing, when we were kids, why is a crooked letter that can never be straightened? But what are they telling you there? You're going to ask why? So Jane, absolutely brilliant pointing. Thank you dear Bob. Blessed is an inadequate word to describe the gratitude here for the pointing over the past 36 years from so-called you to the so-called me. That's from Jane. Jane? Yes. Thanks Jane. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going, they say. They invite you to keep going. Go where? Did you want to contribute something Peter? Oh no.

And what do you want to say? I don't know. I don't know. Anyone else? Would you like to say something or ask questions or share your insights or your doubts or anything that comes up? You can do it. Did you hear Bill? The first questions he was, the first things he was saying? Got a good grasp of things? Yeah. All of you have. You've been listening to this. Don't keep it and let it out. It's taken up space. Yeah. Empty your cup. Emptiness is good. Yeah. Adrian? I think what's been coming up for me recently is like thoughts, feelings and emotions appear and come up but they don't belong to anyone.

Particularly feelings and emotions. It feels like they come up and like yeah, there's like that's just expressing but there's no one that actually is them or owns them or anything like that. Yeah. What was I going to say? Yeah, because it can feel quite personal, particularly the thoughts can have a very personal type content but just seeing that they're not personal. And the other thing come up to me today is like there's only like this expression, it's only this expression that has the capacity to identify and put words on and describe stuff. So it's only through this expression that I can see what I'm doing.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's only through this expression that that can happen. It's like everything just is. It's almost like an arrogance to think that this thing is what's saying how it is sort of thing. Like it's only this pattern that can do that. Like the rest is just life but there's an arrogance to think that this, like only this thing has the capacity to do that. I don't know. I'm not really explaining it too well but it's sort of, it's such an arrogance I think to think that this knows what is. It's just a sort of thing when everything else, like nothing else out there is dividing or doing any describing or labeling.

It's just coming through this pattern. So yeah, anyway. I'm explaining it to the person who's going to be arrogant. Yes. But yeah. And put that label on. Good. Good. Yeah. But the mind does have either the inferiority or grandiosity and it vibrates between the two. You know, I'm worthless. Oh, I'm greater than everyone. That is just such a, that's just such a characteristic of that instrument. It's fun to observe. Like you just observed, you know, the assumption that it can understand or grasp anything is such arrogance because it's just minute expression of that absolute. So how could the computer get its own maker? It can't.

It's, and even if it gets some information, that information has nothing to do with the source of all being like Bill was saying. And now Benjamin is saying brilliant answer. Bob and Kat on the why I asked beg story, crooked letter and all pointed me straight back to the who, which is the ego, which apparently was made up by presence, awareness and an illusion. The rain. And Benjamin says exactly who's going to be the one. Who's going to be arrogant? Yeah, brilliant. That's a, that's it. That's it. Benjamin. Yes, that's the basic recognition that it's, it is another expression. We call it mind, but really Bob often points.

Is there such thing as mind? It's just the stream of thoughts and images. Usually one at the time, even if it contains the whole big galaxies and so, so, so our solar systems is still one thought on the image at the time. And who's thinking that if there was anyone thinking that would that anyone be just another thought? And as Bob also points, we don't know what we're going to be thinking in the next couple of minutes. We don't know the next thought. So they just arise. They come up. Images come up like in the dream. You sleep at night. Well, apparently in a lucid dreaming practices, you can kind of prompt your dream, but you have to have the thought first to even do it.

So if you decide you have to have the thoughts to decide everything is based on that arising thought, which is controlled by absolutely every minute particle in the universe, which is the everything, which is the nothing, the infinite and the zero. They, they beyond the mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They beyond the mind. They unimaginable. Peter? Yeah. I think it's really interesting just to sit with that and observe it. It's so true, Kat, what you just said. We sit and watch the thoughts. This is what you're alluding to. Isn't it? Just sit and watch it. It's quite amazing to get familiar with that because you know, it is clearly obvious, isn't it?

They arise somewhere. But we don't know. we don't know where they come from. It comes out of the emptiness of the unlimited nature of awareness. Isn't that true? It's really lovely just to get familiar with that and to see where this... It becomes very obvious that there are points of temptation or points where... I have no understanding of this, but I can see it directly as the thoughts arise in this field of knowing which is not limited. And then they fall back or fall away or do whatever they do. And this sense of self sort of emerges out of this ocean of possibility and seems to hold something and then starts to get concretized into this so-called sense of self.

It makes no sense. But there it is. And just to become aware of that is a very powerful thing, I think. We were sitting around the fire the other night with people and there's a roaring outdoor fire and the stars were blazing and the trees were around and everyone's trying to work it all out here and all this stuff. And at one point there seemed to be this sort of arrogance in a sense. This little thing here, this little thing coming up with... But it was so obvious. It's like the fire's just roaring in front of everyone and the stars are just blazing and the words are just coming out.

It's just so obvious that there's no doer. There's no personal thing in that that can figure anything out because this is the expression and this is the life just in the perfect display in a roaring, you know, magical, sort of show. And yet, oh yeah, there's a roaring, magical show. But I think it works out like this. I think, you know, it might be like this and you might, oh, just forget it. That's so much more unsatisfactory on every level than the actuality of the show without that story or narrative. It's just, ooh. Pretty cool. That is beautiful. And the roaring fire, when you're sitting in front of a roaring fire and the spark, the spark comes up.

Where does it go? Where, yes. Watch it bang. It disappears. It's just, yeah. Mm-hmm. But I love that expression of like really a contrast. You highlighted the contrast between that unbelievable beauty and complexity of what is and the ridiculous idea of trying to work it out with a thought. Thought is just so flat and lifeless comparing to that immensity of the miraculousness of that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember just that that's what my profession was for most of my life, driving ships and walking on that helicopter landing deck on the top to just feel my own nothingness and disappear in the vastness of sky and ocean.

Just in the middle of nowhere with nothing else to see. That was a relief. But I imagine the situation would, and that was actually the life experience. Most of the people being with me in that situation would just completely miss out on the opportunity it poses and live in the past or future what is not there and make themselves miserable. Completely missing out on that incredible moment which is never ever the same again. Whether it is a fire or the ocean, whether it is this room, or whether it is the moment which mind labels as boring. That's inattention. It is still something that will never ever be the same again.

And it's something that thought will just make flat and boring. But in itself it is incredible. It's breathtaking. I think I have another comment. I saw that. That was, Jane says thanks again. Bob, Kat and everyone. And Gilbert says, observe the disappearance of a thought and be quiet. That's brilliant. Yeah. Because those thoughts they don't last. See them going. Stay with it. Benjamin, yeah. Benjamin says, Bob said something to me yesterday that made it real. And these are not his words but my interpretation. Imagine presence awareness made our individual egos up. Imagine. And in that one concept he blew away the fuck up. He blew ego, he blew ego the fuck up.

Illusion of illusion, the thinker is thought, says Amarnath. Yes, I know what you say. Basically that conceptual image is also made up of life because there is only one. There is only life. And even the so-called ego, which basically is an association with some personality pattern or set of values that the body has, is just an identification, misidentification one could say. Because if you really look closer on it, it's a set of concepts, past memories and images which are not even always there. And which are not even solid. I mean you may have the sense that, oh, I am worthy today and I'm unworthy tomorrow.

I am a woman today and I'm a mother or a daughter or whatever. Those are all really fleeting images. Nothing solid about them. Nothing trustworthy about them. So just as Gilbert say, see the thought gone and be quiet. Bob says don't embark on another thought. Or let the thought ride on the breath. Just breathe in, inspire a thought, breathe out, let it go. And a thought is also... A thought is also just a label itself, isn't it? Yeah. The word thought, sometimes we give this meaning to thoughts, but the thoughts is just a label. So it feels like it goes another step or something. Absolutely.

Discarding that as well. Yeah. It's just sound really. Sound is a vibration. Vibration is a movement of energy. Yeah. Yeah, even to call it a thought is already said too much. Or call it image is said too much. Even calling it pure energy or vibrations already said too much. Like again, as Gilbert said, let the thought go and be quiet. In that silence it reveals itself. Like as a roaring fire or as whatever is. Or the moment when the nothing is. And the nothingness of everything is recognized. And we have... Amarnath saying, background of thought is not affected by appearance and disappearance of it. Absolutely.

Yeah. Even that is seeming duality. That there is a background and there is a foreground. Or there is a screen and there is what appears on the screen. But that's only because language is duality by essence. Like language is constructed in a way that everything has its opposite. It can't be expressed in any other ways than dualistic ways. But yes, Amarnath, absolutely. And Benjamin says, stop calling it in the first place. Yeah. And that's it for comments. Anyone would like to add something? I've got a little bit of confusion that arose during the week watching a David Attenborough show. And... I don't know. It's a good thing.

Absolutely. I think this is the best we can do. This is... we've got a question from some of our listeners from a viewer from London. Is there a general definition of blackness? Well, I think blackness is when there's light which is mixed together with the darkness. And blackness, I don't know about you, but there's a... I'm half aib for blackness. Yeah, I'm half aib for blackness. But in English, blackness is when it's not pourable. Blackness is when... It's more of a calmness and a decoration. Oh. Now it's, it's a... I like it. It's a kind of blackness. I don't know. It's a bit of a...

leg bone that appeared in this out of the sediment of an ancient river and the confusion was there is a sense that there is no time and in this this presence this present moment that has no beginning has no end and yet there's a story about an ancient past that seems to be validated by these by the archaeological record so there's confusion about that because I'm sure Peter will enlighten me on that. There's another way to look at that I mean I haven't been in a scientific background myself I really realized I had an experience the fact is what's going on is all now but the and one can see it in terms of a fantastically beautiful and elegant idea you know that and this somehow saves me from the drudgery of the and the confusion of logical thinking as a means of escaping this problem of this dilemma is simply to dissolve in the beauty of this problem of this dilemma is simply to dissolve in the beauty of this problem of this dilemma is simply to dissolve in the beauty of this problem and that why not whoa if you know why can it all not appear now the whole thing the the fossil record the all the play of you know so-called evolution the absolute beauty and stunning beauty of the idea of evolution as a solution to you know the seeming evidence in the fossil record because record and the abundance and diversity of animal life across the world.

It's all just so, in its essence, as a direct experience, is so, so beautiful. Do you see what I'm driving at? Perhaps not. Do you want to say something? Yeah. Sure. I think, hi. I think that the mind in its nature is analytical. I've just finished uni and you're trained to analyze things and come up with an answer that fits within a construct that fits within the ideas that you've built mentally. And I was reminded when you said, you said about a dream. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we categorize dreams as not real and this as real, this materialistic experience. And I had a dream last night about a chameleon, right?

Like the chameleon, the lizard. It's changing color. And I haven't seen chameleons for a long time, but I could see it in such detail, the little scales around each eyeball and the way their eyes move in separate directions, like binoculars. Like these big bulbous eyes with the little eyelids. And I could see every detail of the chameleon, like it changing color to be in the tree. And it was so real. And I woke up questioning. I woke up in this blissful state. And then I started questioning, why did I ever dream about a chameleon? And then I laughed at that thought because, you know, like why not?

Like I was trying to work out, have I seen chameleons recently? Have maybe there's been a dream about a chameleon? Yeah. And I was just being chameleons in my subconscious. Like I was really concerned about the fact that I had a dream about a chameleon and I didn't know why. But it didn't matter that I didn't know why. The fact was I simply had the dream and it was pretty cool. That is brilliant. That is beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The amount of exploration of the mind. What you say, Ros, is also very interesting, not only from the perspective of the whole evolution and time as an example.

See, we are actually using pointers to time to dispel time, which may seem even more ridiculous. Like, okay, two or three billion years old, who cares? How about being two-year-old and learning language? That implies time too. Now I'm shooting our own pointers because the pointer is only to, if you are locked in some concept in the mind, the pointer is to shake you and then you throw it away. There is no time. There is no two-year-old. We say we were two-year-old sperm and ovum. Bob was saying such a beautiful, beautiful illustration of that omnipotency and omnipresence and omnipower of life animating that sperm and ovum cells that create the pattern that grows.

And then there is not even a brain. And people already claim they had incarnations. I don't know how many. They remember vividly 18th century being something like that. 18th century being something where brain wasn't even there to record it. So obviously there is frequencies all around. You are the television. You pick up the channel. So you picked up the channel of evolution right now. You're watching a movie of evolution which is already made, already done in this moment right now. Movie of being a child, two-year-old right now. Everything's happening like Peter was saying right now. And you can just appreciate it as a story. And you can appreciate even the capacity of the mind to conceptualize the time in 14 billion years before the big bang.

That is a brilliance of the mind. Is that true? On the relative level you might say it is true. Like it is true that when I pinch him he will respond. But that's only relative level because truth is that which never changes. And... That's the truth. That's the definition of truth. Something that doesn't change. Something that is always there. Always and ever. So the dream, it changes. The dream. Dream of a chameleon. I was actually dreaming about some weird sort of a... This size of a like insect. Beautiful. Absolutely shockingly beautiful. Amazing. Lying on his back. I always, I mean very often, explore the realities that are nothing close to this one.

So there is no... There is no national geographic that I could glance in a dentist waiting room or anything because it's just too creative. But I imagine that this type of creativity is a potential in every single network of neurocircuits. It's just memorizing it is not often exercised. But it doesn't matter. You found your answer. What doesn't matter? Why question? You can ask me a question. You can create more daydreaming. Daydreaming about this, daydreaming about that, daydreaming about the mammoth or where are they? They are our daydream right now. We bring up the fossils. Where are they? They're daydreams. We are imagining them into this moment now, creating them in this moment now.

So this is... Ah, go on. There. I'll finish now. My sojourn in science ended when I was... You know, you say... sitting on the bottom of the ocean one day, because I did a lot of scuba diving for the work I was doing, in about 100 feet of water, I was just lying on the bottom. And I realised, this is ridiculous. This is so beautiful, there's no way I'm ever going to understand it by dividing it up into little bits. It's just the sheer presence of the whole. The fact that this big fish over here was just swimming around. And it was so wonderfully orchestrated by a mind which is so vastly bigger than anything that I could ever understand.

It brought it all together in this one spectacular moment now. If I had all the time in the world, I could never divide it up enough to understand anything. That was the moment the whole thing fell apart for me. It's all spontaneous happening in the moment. It's not a moment. It's not a moment. It's not a moment. It was spontaneously there. We add the story to it. So many years back. In that moment, they didn't know anything about it. A thousand years back or whatever it was, when the mammoth bone was there or when it wasn't. You take it up, that's what was there right now.

And then we put the concept of time onto it and say it was such and such and such. It's all spontaneous, the whole lot right now. And now it's just a moment of time. Forever fresh, ever new. And also see how the creating of power of that experiencing of that universe is the attention. Like if you didn't watch David Eldonborough, that wouldn't even exist in your immediate reality, in your world. The attention, whatever it was, because it is that life essence, that intelligence energy, it rests in the chameleon eye. And you get thousands of them. of details, you get infinite, like a fractal of reality unfolding because that attention touches or touches the history or touches the future.

Anything it touches, it creates. It really is as if your attention is the manifesting power. I'm not talking about law of attraction when there is an ego that is kind of setting affirmations and taking credit for whatever life unfolds. I'm talking about recognizing that life, which is impersonal, and it is, wherever it looks, it sees more creation, more detail, more fractals. But there was a nice one here, I see another really good comment from Gilbert, trying to guess what reality is, why not let it be? It reveals itself as no thing. Okay. So does the Meire get away from it? No. No. No. The difference between the three are that the Meire is not the same.

That the Meire is his own. It's not the same thing. That it's the same thing. No. That the Meire is him. That's how it is in a تا Not only does it have time, it doesn't even have… Even the spaces are conceptualized. Everything is a concept. That's how it is recognized out of that potentiality. And David. thousand years ago where is it when you wake up where was any of this before you became aware yeah absolutely beautiful yeah and see how little difference is between the night dream and the daydream when we are imagining what is not when we are recalling you know the blazing fire or the ocean it is what is not it is the daydream it is imagination and see how brilliantly we can recall and bring it back to existence in the now same with the dream and where is it it is all the nothing amarna says dream is the best way to understand the phantomness of waking state yeah yeah it is a brilliant metaphor and it's quite direct too british jewish julia says um as the saying goes you think you're enlightened go and spend a week with your family julia's with her family now in uk as i work through an intense period of a dream i'm grateful for being shaken awake again this morning thank you all thank you julia looking forward to having you back in aussie i hope things will resolve soon smoothly there and amarna says thank you cat whole waking state is simply daydreaming yeah even when the thought is not the dream goes on it is a dreaming facilitated by seeing hearing tasting touching smelling that's why we say we are not waking up from the dream we waking up to the dream to realize the dream goes on but we don't have to construct layers upon layers upon on layers of the dream.

We can see things fresh and new without much interpreting. And if the interpreting happens, just see it as part of the dream. The storytelling part of the dream. And Benjamin, do you have, you do have all the time. You do have all the time. Yeah, you can imagine, create, make up the whole time. If you say time is real, it is in your experience. You say Santa Claus is real, ego is real. Well, suit yourself. Not that you have any choice. It's the conditioning. There is no time, Benjamin says. And Amarnath says, timeless appearing as time, indivisible appearing as divisible. And Benjamin says, and there is no David Altenborough.

Pretend for a moment that you projected that dude. Accent and all. Yeah, that's a good point. Yes. It is a dream. He is a figment of your imagination. Yeah. Yeah. Well done. Isn't he amazing? Mind and thoughts get a bit of a bad rap at times. Like, you know, the creative abilities is also the expression itself. Like, it is creating and expressing through these different filters and stuff. And it is it as well. Rather than this is bad or shouldn't be happening, another judgment. Or, you know, it's just, it gets, well, it's a judgment now. It gets misguided at times or it goes off into this other content, which sort of, you know, creates suffering.

Yeah. And it's been expressed in so many different beautiful ways. It's all conceptual, but it's magnificent also. So. Totally. Yeah. Just something in connection with what Peter was saying. I was watching this way, dantic Swami explaining about the same thing we're talking about. And he used the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Brahma's me which is I am Brahman and then he pointed out that the literal meaning of Brahman is vastness so that that conception of the vastness of nature in beneath the water at the bottom of the bottom of this wonderful aquatic world that vastness seemed to the vastness of the literal meaning of Brahman seemed just to trigger that same that's what I am absolute emptiness open field of space God they call it sometimes hmm yeah sorry excited I'm sorry bursting to speak but I really don't know what to speak about but there's this urge to just firstly say something I'm not gonna speak about Gilbert because that's not right but but but like earlier you said something I don't actually know what to say but I'm bursting with something you said that there's like this is a sense of there's like a sense of no sense of time there's like this is like a sense of no sense of timelessness there's not a sense of timelessness there is no time and it just appears it is time so it's an appearance and there's a million infinite appearances and and like Bobby I don't know today you said something Bob like about matter and spirit and both two ends of the same coin or something and I haven't heard you say that before I've probably said a thousand times but it's like it's really obvious that like if that so then if matter if everything is appearing in this but everything is is matter but even a thought in a sense is matter it's a vibration it's a pattern everything is spirit like and it's just an empty dance of this vibrant like you mentioned the word fractals it's like an explosion of everything and in that explosion there's time and there's there's labels and there's stories and there's history and there's evolution and there's infinite there's chameleons and there's deep sea divers and there's giant bugs and there's roaring fires and it's but it's all in that same it's that matter just like vibrating in a specific way which is really spirit like and what the hell is this all about then like it's just it's an expression it's like a total explosion of love like exploding into all these infinite um uh just expressions and it can only and it happened it's no it's not in a timeline it's actually always in the same spot of nothing so there's a can't it can't possibly but oh But the appearance of time is so funny, everything is so funny, everything is fantastic, because it's recognized as...

Anyway, I think I'm going to stop. I remember Bob had this... I don't know if this was regarding time, but I remember once you were talking about the thousand voltage, like that life essence being that untamed, pure, omnipresence, great power, that you put it through the cord of electricity and you can lit thousand globes or bulbs. If you would put that whole strong thousand volts through the body, it would burn the fuses. So the time has been conceptualized, because when you say, Dean, about this exquisite, incredible beauty and might, imagine being overwhelmed to the point that you see it all at the same time with all infinite amount of realities all parallel and the past and future all at the same time.

You would die of a serotonin shock out of ecstasy, which is apparently happening for people who didn't go through near-death experience, because it wasn't that near. But yes, it could be expressed as that dance of love, that dance of expression. The holographic expression. When Nisargadatta is talking about nothingness and wisdom, everything and nothing, everything is the love and nothing is the understanding. They know different. They can't exist without one without the other. So it really is. And I love, Dean, the way you say it, especially if you don't know how to say it, because that is when it really spontaneously expresses. That is up to now the only commitment I have myself to speaking non-duality.

And of course, I don't have it. It's just shown up. Never ever to prepare. Just let it flow spontaneously. And then, as I believe everyone here is doing, because there's no doing, really. So whatever comes up. But especially if you don't rehearse the sentence, if you don't really know how it is going to turn out, it usually is a pure gold. That's... Thank you. You mentioned, like, you know, the attention. Like, if you really, like, if you sit, if you... You know that it's all awareness and attention's moving into all these different things. And if you actually can, if they can be seen, you become whatever the attention is.

Like, wherever the focal point is. Like, I was a deep-sea diver. I became a wolfy mammoth. Definitely became a chameleon. Like, just... I'm going to become you in a second, Bob. But honestly, like, wherever the attention... Wherever the attention... It's not that you're delusional in that. You just get that sense of whatever that experience of attention is focusing on. The focal point is... I remember, you know, I think it was Tony who was with us once, you know. Who passed away earlier this year. I remember he told... He was telling us once he became a tram. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I know that's sort of a little bit of an experience.

And it's a bit of an, you know, exaggeration. But you take on, like, you are everything. And in the nothing, the focal point pretends and conceptualises all this wonderful show. And you sort of become all of it. So then... And even the thought I am the dean comes in. And you become that too. And then you become the scuba diver. It doesn't make any difference. Like, it's unreal. So then there's no... There's no... I think... There's no focus... There's no central point of any of these. There's no... You know, you can't find a centre or a little man behind the little commentator that's running or a manager or whatever.

It's just totally not true. So, it's more of a dream, isn't it? Yeah. It's more of a... What? A dream. Yes. It comes a magnificent dream though. Yeah. And Nisargadatta had this suggestion to actually do that sort of changing focal point exercise. He pointed out that you can actually do that. You identify as this finger and you've experienced that one. And then you change and you identify as this one, experiencing that one. And he says in the same way, wherever your attention goes, whatever it touches, you can experience both sides of the coin. And yes, it is quite sweet. And yes, just for fun of the experiencing, if the life is moved to do that, try experience yourself being a branches of the tree or anything that moves and even the space that is moving with you and what's moving and what's not.

And it's just playing with that loosens up a little bit that... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. body is more or less your body because the whole world is your body this is who you are you are the world you are the emptiness and all of the forms did you want to say something I think I have another comments here quite a few so Benjamin says imagine we are our most amazing projections odd we've been there David Altenborough even a what's up Facebook zoom our best examples of phantomness of the three states nobody enters this applications but we think we are inside that says Amarna yeah nothing going on no one is here and Benjamin says beautiful vastness infinite potentiality and he also says it is not about there is no time could you conceived there is no you let it explode bro hey could you conceive there is no you like you are to even conceive or not conceive it but what you are that's a mystery and Dale Allison when I look inside for me there is no one there nothing and in this nothing everything appears yeah beautiful we said yes so am students present there seems to be no one yes you are that nothing and that everything I am Annire says thank you love you all oh I think it's time if they say it out and Benjamin says exactly you gotta be you to survive what God is describing you got to be know you to survive what yes well stay alive bro you gotta be you this beautiful to survive what is being described but how could you know that you're alive in that universe you gotta be, that person but how come the way that I see, what is your cure?

God's sweeter if you're in loving support? God does there's absolutely no guarantee you know one power and I don't know Yes. because I'm dead. what is being described but you are Bob bro you are Bob Dean yeah and nothing's excluded universe is nothing but becoming from being a manassas and Dale Allison says it is and it is also empty Terry hi Terry happy birthday Terry had birthday couple of days ago and we didn't couldn't see him then ultimately there is not even a moment unless comparison is made good point moment is also label yes and Byron says may I ask what are you actually feeling right now what is that feeling what's your feeling pure feeling pure feeling without a label without putting the word on it yeah isn't it hmm if you would want to label it you can say isness yeah Satchitananda loving to be oh I thought you say hungry we'll take that one that's the one yeah joyous affectionate awareness of presence yeah there's plenty of labels you were all related today that might be an example but that's okay we're gonna address more others we have another comment yes any words gonna be the same content anyway yeah yeah so we have another comment yeah and Terry says movement movement gosh did I read soteri yes actually he says there is not even a it sorry he says I thought it was moment my miss read it as a movement yes absolutely movement is the current experiencing when you label it if you stop the time you close your eye the world disappears and the movement disappears yes so ultimately there is not even a movement unless comparison is made I don't know if my cuts would agree with that I don't know but if that's your experience that's your experience I don't think my cats would agree with that because they experience the constant flux even breathing in and out and of course theoretically totally theoretically in your mind you you're totally right Terry there is no breathing in and out there is only this moment between the breaths but do you have to really think hard to conceptualize it I think attention spam is designed slightly differently but it doesn't matter movement is is a label anyway without the label nothing is really and byron says and if we look closer within what is that feeling right now I if we look closer to what is that feeling he wants probably some other labels is that feeling you on the label I don't know what label you want to like miss some movement or energy what label would you like so just be just consciousness just trying to understand benjamin strength understand Terry is theoretically you can say that you know the time is frozen and it's nothing happening there's no movement and when the time comes in the seconds are passing and then you have breathing in and breathing out so without the time one could say there is no movement and there is no world but we are rather talking about experiencing than theoretical explanations so there is totally not wrong in that but if you actually really don't go much to the to the physics and explanation of theory this is just what is and this what is is just as it is and and I don't know if anyone experience not breathing right now I think we do and the seeing hearing tasting touching smelling is all kind of transient but yes he's you may or you may not yeah Benjamin says that Terry's comment is possibly in line with William Blake yes possibly in line with quantum mechanics as well and and other theoretical yes it could be and you can also find Terry Benjamin he has the website if you google Terence Stevens non duality you can have one-on-one meeting with Terry and he will explain probably pretty well what you he's saying Blake said in the 15th century without contraries there is no progression yes so that's that's end of comments yeah yeah yeah so thank you everyone thank you for being with us thank you for all the contributions and thank you everyone online Oh Terry is it is not Terry see your Terry says it is not see your Terry says it is not see your Terry says it is not see your Terry says it is not Terry says it is not see your Terry says it is not see your it's the sharpness of the absolute now sharpness of absolute now okay yeah yeah I don't know if my cats would experience it this way but that's okay that's sharpness of absolute now that there is no movement yeah whatever the experience is whether you experience no movement or you experience movement stillness and movement of the same the same thing like yeah I think that's what he's referring to is but but that's right I'll leave it now yeah well form is emptiness and emptiness is form so movement is still movement is stillness stillness is movement yeah absolutely they're two sides of the same coin and and then Benjamin says sharpness of the absolute now which is duality says Benjamin and now we have environment says Ted is competing with me no that is not competing Terry's it has has its own expression very beautiful and very clear and we are dear friends there's no competition going on he's just pointing to a different aspect that's why so yeah yeah the the the the way the way my lifestyle is and I feel and I love people you and I wish you all the best just thank you and see you in Europe him if you don't I want to see everyone.

I want to see you if you live with me. please visit my YouTube channel I do something similar to live with you in democrats.com What Dean was just saying, that's probably what it was. The movement and stillness, they're not two. The screen and the form and the emptiness are not two. And movement is mind only, Terry says. Absolutely, absolutely. We're totally on the same page. Movement is mind. Seeing is also mind. Yeah, stillness can't be conceptualized. Everything that is perceived and conceived and experienced is the mind. Thank you, Terry. Finally, we got it. Now this is very, very clear. And absolutely on the same page.

I agree. And Maureen says, all included love. And Ram says, I don't think theoretical discussion about the moment are particularly helpful to anyone. And we are going for lunch. Thank you, everyone. Thank you.