Sailor Bob and the group. Nonduality spoken here

My name's Julia. Hey. Good to see you. Nobody. Nobody. Adrian. Peter. Michael. Peter. And Maureen. You aren't darling. We try to point out here non-duality, which in the great traditions or Hinduism, for instance, they call it Advaita. And that's what Advaita means. Non-duality. And what does non-duality mean? Not two. One without a second. Only that. And we've got this idea that we are separate entities, we're individuals. We're persons. And believe it. And while we're believing in it, we set ourselves up as something separate and apart. And that's what we're doing. That sense of separation is insecurity. It's vulnerability. And we've taken on the belief we are these separate persons and we're insecure and we're very vulnerable with that.

So we're going back to what the traditions point out. It's all the one essence. And there is only that one essence. One essence patterning, shaping and forming this seeming cosmos, this universe. And when you look into it closely, you can recognise that yourself. Because you are that. You are already that. You need to question this belief that you're separate. And getting even a grasp of that, you recognise that that is all there is. That's what they say. And you can only be that. But you've got this belief you're the separate entity. And we try to become that. Which is futile. How can you become something which you already are?

So all these habits we've taken on and beliefs that we've taken on, if you've got to the stage when you're really looking into it, you're not happy with all the beliefs and all the... a lot of the great religions and that get mixed up in when they adulterate them. And start from the fact. The fact that all of us are separate. The fact that I am that already. And isn't that how you would describe yourself? Somebody asks you who you are. I am so and so. That so and so is what I am. Everything is that. That's the great mantra they tell you. I am that, thou art that.

And look around you right now. That chair you're sitting on is that. That's a chair. The carpet's on the floor. That's a chair. The floor, that's the carpet. The space in the room, that's the space. There is nothing out there that you could say is not that. But we've, again, we put other labels on it. And take the other labels, when you say I am that or I am Bob the Australian, the good fella, or the not so good, and put this conceptual label that symbolises that. Symbolises this person, this persona, which is a mask, a mask of concepts, words. And the words are not the real.

We get into all sorts of stories and things like that, describing it. But it's very simple. It's that simple that we miss it. Christ told you, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. This concept, or word we've learnt, I am, is the way. It's the truth. It is the life. Start with being the life. Not the person. The person is a mental concept. Come from the label, from the Latin persona, the mask. And the mask is the conceptual image. When I say I am Bob the Australian, the good fella, or not so good, I'm unhappy. What am I talking about?

This conceptual image. What am I without a concept? When the Buddhists tell me it's non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. Talking about the Sat Chit Ananda, Nama Rupa. Non-conceptual. Ever-fresh. Meaning it's spontaneous. It's ever new. You're not time-bound. And it's not yesterday or tomorrow, or there or here. It's presence. Prior, before, or the day, or any of the senses conceptualised. The words come up a bit. Presence, pre-sense, awareness. Anyone who is not aware right now, and innately you know, I'm not unaware. I'm aware, and I'm hearing, or not hearing. And you put concepts on what you're hearing, that's a lot of crap, or so and so, or whatever.

You'll have a concept about that. We put concepts on everything. But everything is no thing. You and I are things. The room and the carpet, everything in it, the manifestation are all things. What's it all appearing in? Can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside of space? This thin label we've got on this thing called space. Space is empty. Has it got any centre to it? Have a look. Investigate and see what we're pointing to is correct or not. It's the acid test of anything. Does it work? And it won't know whether it works or not unless you do test it out.

But we've taken on all these conceptual images on from the time we were born and believed them without testing them. When you put some of them to the test, they fall apart. And then when you, that's when you start looking more into it because it's not good enough when we're living in this conceptual image. It's not good enough because it's not the truth. And the saying is know the truth. Don't stay in the false. Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What's there to be free from? Free from the belief that you need to be freed from this bondage. The bondage of self we've got.

We keep locked in to this bondage. It doesn't have to be so. And like everybody else, it was believed in here for quite a few years. And there was a struggle here, trying to become something, trying to be different. Destroying this pattern. But amazingly enough, by the very thing that was destroyed, by the very thing that was destroying it, investigating it and going into it, it turned it around. And it was seen that I wasn't this thing I'd believed in all these years. And turning it around, there wasn't all the confusion, the mental turmoil anymore. Just like I use the analogy of the sun and the cloud.

When there are less clouds in the sky, isn't there more clarity? Isn't that clarity? Isn't the sunshine... more warm? Well, this life, this sun of life, that's shining through your eyes right now, the light of life... open up to it and be the life. Christ says, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. I'm not the body. I'm not the mind. I am the life itself. And have a look at life. And you realise that there's life all around you, just a lightless space. It's everywhere. And life lives on life. Now it's appearing and disappearing and out of life more life comes.

And as Nisargadatta says, there is only life. That is all there is. Not the person, not the body, not the mind, not all the stories, not the great or the small or the big, it's just this life. And nobody lives a life. There is only life, no body, no person, no conceptual image lives a life. Life lives on life. Where does life go when it goes out of this body? Where did it come from? Didn't it come from the space, the emptiness? As I say, it's all things appearing in space which is no thing. Space. Space has got no shape, no form, no centre, no circumference.

It's here all around you. It's closer to you than you're breathing and even your hands and feet. It's the very first thing that's in front of the eyeball. There's space. And there's space in the eyeball itself and in this body, everywhere. Emptiness. We call it space, that's just another label. You can call it God if you like, one essence. You can call it whatever label you like. But the main, the best one is I am that. That is what I am. See, there's a story you hear off a book to Nandy, he used to put it on about the fella, and he went to this ashram and he says, I want to find God, I want to find truth.

He said, can you tell me? And the guru there said, thou art that. Oh, he said, no way, Gareth. And he says, I heard that before. So, oh, he says, that's alright, well there's another ashram down the road, go and see him. So he says, okay. So he went to this next ashram and went to the guru and the guru says, where you been? He says, I've been up the road to that other guru. He says, alright. He says, you want to know the truth? You'll have to serve me for 12 years. And he says, okay, anything for the truth. And he says, okay. So he called the ashram manager over and he says, what job have we got left?

He says, the only job we've got left is picking up cow shit. And he says, okay, I'll do that. And he served him for 12 years. After 12 years he went up to him and he says, I've served you faithfully for 12 years, Master. Now I want to know the truth. And he says, thou art that. And this time he heard it. Everybody laughs at that. And I laughed at it too, not realizing that was what I was doing when I was in the ashram, picking up the cow shit. And I was actually too. See the opportunity you're missing out on? You could have all these people cleaning shit.

We don't have a shit here. We actually do have a cut shit. You could have a cut. You'll make a story out of that too, Mashal. And there's another one. Devotees walking along the river bank. And he's going along. He looks over the other side and he sees the Master lying out on the stretcher having a nap. And he says, Master, Master, how do I get to the other side? And the Master said, you're on the other side. And everybody laughs at that, not realizing that what's the river on? Is the river really dividing anything? Because what's at the bottom of the river? Still the same earth is on this side as what's on the other side.

See, we don't see what's before our very eyes. The one life, the one essence, the one intelligence. Many different ways of pointing it out. If you follow any one of them, they say that any road will take you home. Because it all leads to the one place. It does. Douglas Harding had a story too. A good one. Trying to think of it. It's not there at the moment. Never lose sight of the fact that you are that life essence. Prior to the mind. Prior to thought. And you know that because how many thoughts or words were you born with? None. Whatsoever. Without any words sitting here, what could you say?

What stories could you tell? Or what labels could you put on yourself? But can you negate your beingness? And we've got to put words on it to describe anything. Even being is a word. All these words are coming out of this pattern right now. They're just words labeled. So we weren't born with any words. So you look that up and understand it. You realize that you are prior to thought. Because every word you've ever spoken and ever likely to speak is a sound. A word. A vibration. A movement of energy which we put the meaning into which discriminate it. There were sounds out there in nature now.

They're going on. Birds will be chirping. Wind will be rustling in the leaves. And all the rest of it. All these sounds which we describe as words. But it's life expressing itself. That's life. We get so invested in this personal story. And it's understandable because our parents told us we were separate. And why would they tell us we were separate? Because they didn't know themselves that they weren't separate. They were just passing on what they understood. And they tell us to go out there to a choir. To a mass. To accumulate. Add to this believed in entity you've got. Make yourself whole and complete. By gathering and massing.

Making your life happy. Not realize it. Should be looking at it the other way. Get rid of the concepts and ideas and beliefs we've taken on. And go back into what is the actually. It's not a matter of even going back. Into what is actually a true nature. What's that life doing as you know it right now? Don't you realize it's breathing you? It's beating your heart? It's growing your hair and your fingernails? It's digesting the food? Everything that is manifesting in this appearance we call life. Is that one intelligence energy. I call intelligence energy. Rather than use the term God or life. Because intelligence is knowing.

Satyidinanda. Being, knowing and loving to be. In knowing. Not knowing this or not knowing that. But just the pure knowing. And how does that knowing express? It expresses as the thought I am. To tell anyone you are who you are. You'll say I am. But then we put I am so and so. I am an addict. I am this. I am that. But all these concepts and labels on us. Which discriminate it. As Christ said I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. The way and the truth and the life are all the one. Descriptions of the one essence. Using different words.

Just a sign. There are many other ways which we say things which mean words which mean the same thing. But we put the different meanings into them. And get all sorts of different concepts. We said here this morning. That we must set up people. Saints, sages, saviours and seers. Gods. Gurus. And people. And we worship the messenger. And don't take any notice of the message. And the messenger is not worth a pinch of shit. But the message is all. It's the everything. And each and every one of you can point out that message. And you have taste of it and you do. But we get lost into the story.

And they've got these two words. Yesterday is history. That's his story. Or my story that's not now. Tomorrow is a mystery. My story. So it's his story and my story. We're separating the stories. But it's the same believed in essence that's separating us. The same thing happened with Christ on the cross. Now he's the fellow who's supposed to have the understanding. Had the message. He's hanging on the cross. There. Or his coat. And the soldiers down below have got his... Fighting over his clothes. They're not worth a pinch of shit either. But they're fighting over them. When they could have been up there and said, Listen boss, tell us all about it.

What's the truth? Get me out of this. But they're not interested. They'd rather be... Think they're going to get something out of it. At a price. Whoever wins his clothes and pine does. It'll be worth something to me. And the words are only pointers. There's no word that is the actual. And what we're trying to describe right now is not its description. And understand that. The word, the description can never be the described. So no matter what's said here or any time, it's not its description. But it can point. Like a signpost is a pointer. You're not there when you're reading the signpost. It's like, well the message.

Or the malware. Or whatever it is. Whatever it is they've got now on these computers. Roadmaps, whatever they are. They're pointers. The thing is to follow the pointer. Take what notice, what the point is saying and go along that direction. And see whether it's true or not. And amazingly enough you might find out it is the truth. Where it's pointing to. And it's pointing to the absolute. What they call the absolute. Those that have understood and pointed to it will call it the absolute. What is absolute? What can you add to it? Nothing. What can you take away? Nothing. And if everything is that absolute, no matter how it's appearing, patterning, shaping, forming or expressing.

No matter it's words of love or hate or fear or depression or not. It's still only the absolute. Now if you know that. What are you going to do with this meaning we've believed it is? We're going to go along with it and make ourselves unhappy or sad or depressed because of some concepts come up. This is not me. I don't like it or I do like it. Not realising that the good and the bad are the absolute also. That the day and the night. The functioning. The way everything functions is absolutely as it is. What is? It is totality. It is all. It is everything.

What is separate from it? If there is any separation whatsoever, we would have seemingly taken it from the absolute and it wouldn't be true. And that's what we're constantly doing with the thinking. The thinking is not the enemy. Thinking can be very useful. But when we lie isolated, we're putting it on the same persona, the mask on the concepts, then it becomes a problem. And as Shakespeare says, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Thinking and it's good in this moment. The next moment we've got a different thought that might be bad. And so we believe we've separated. But how can the absolute be separated?

It can't be. So why do we think it's separate? We don't want the bad. So we push it away and try and stay in the good all the time. But that won't happen. Because it takes it. The one stick takes the other end with it. Wherever it goes. So there'll be periods when it's peering in the opposite, when it's seemingly bad. But if you know that left as it is, just like as the sun has left, as the earth has left as it is, it's daylight here now. But it'll be night when it rolls around and our side faces the other side away from the sun.

It'll be daylight day. So that thought, though the bad thought is there right now, sooner or later the good thought will come up. But we don't allow it because we keep the story going. Instead of letting it be as it is, know it will come back and equalise like going to the South Pole. Next step we'll go north. The North Pole, next step we'll be south. Where they meet at the equator and when the thought is paused, what can you say? Can you say it's good? Can you say it's bad? Can you say it's pleasant, painful? You can't say anything at all. You can say it, sure.

But while you're saying it and while you're believing in it and seemingly separate it, with that sense of separation comes insecurity and vulnerability. Again. And you feel insecure, vulnerable, unhappy, depressed. So there's little chance of the goodness staying around. Because we don't settle down and we don't relate to it. We go into the story. And knowing it continues to change, have a look and see and realise that this manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing right now. Mightn't appear to be, but it is. Have a look in the room. People nodding their heads, moving their hands around, breathing in, breathing out. It's constantly changing. We don't notice it.

We stick to the old thought patterns and hang onto it, try and keep this thought pattern. But that transient, thousands of souls are dying in this body right now and being replaced. And what's that being replaced with? It's a cell. And the cells that are replacing them are suffused with intelligence. They know what to do. Because a brain cell is not going to be a heart cell. Liver cell is not going to be a skin cell. Each cell is suffused with that intelligence energy, knowing what to do. The same life that is living and expressing through you right now, that life itself is changing. And it's the same life here as it is there.

The same life is as it is on the other side of this thing we call the world. In this cosmos, it's the same life. There will be different pattern, shapes and forms taking on as the different places in which they appear and express in are taken on. You can go down Bourke Road here next week or tomorrow and you'll see it has changed from what it was yesterday. Buildings are being erected. Things are, branches of trees are falling on the road. All sorts of things are going on which is constantly changed, transient. So there's nothing static except that one essence that you are. The cognising emptiness.

Emptiness suffused with cognising or knowing. It is a knowing emptiness. It means it's us. Emptiness. It means intelligence. Knowing is intelligence. So intelligence, energy. Energy, the knowing is something that's happening right now and the happening is energy, an activity. Any activity is a movement of energy. So that is what you are. That pure essence or pure activity of knowing. And that's how they explain Satyudinanda. Being, knowing and loving to be. Your being right now, you call yourself a human being. You believe there's some other power that's running the show, enlivening me. Call that the supreme being or God. But what happens if you cancel that word human and cancel out that label supreme out?

Try and separate the beingness without the word, even without the word being. Can you say you are not? You can't. If you can say anything at all, all you can say is I am. And I am that beingness. We push the thatness to aside. And we say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's me, that's you. Not realising, and you know it already, that everything is already that. And we discriminate with a different label. But it's the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, experience and everything. And you are that. So that'll do. Want to say something? That's 25 people watching with us and welcome everyone. We have a few comments with sending much love from Henia.

And John loves the work. And greetings from Amarnath. And there is a nice comment from Tanya. Good morning. Without attention on the obscuration, the radiant clarity is everywhere. And nowhere. Empty and so, so full. Well there it is again. There it is again. Beautiful. So that's the space open for questions, sharing. And if anyone would like to ask question or add your understanding or share your insights. Or dispute something that doesn't sit right. Or highlight something. That you heard particularly strongly and it makes sense. Please jump on. That's alright. That's okay. It's really like in today's, in the morning message. It's just so clear. Like Bob's conviction and what he's sharing.

Like, it's just, it's like you are that. Like shut up. Stop it. Stop playing any bloody games. And like it's just, it's like the insistence. The consistent like just the, going back to the very, very point of the whole message. The whole point of the whole show. Like the whole show of life. People, action, reaction. Working anything out. It's just like stop everything. Like you are already that. And the message is like such conviction today Bob. It was just wonderful to just be part of that. That's all. Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Did you want to say something Peter? Yes, okay. I just wanted to say that Mr.

Dugata said that he trusted his guru and that was enough. You know, he heard what his guru said and he lived and worked with that, you know, that teaching until it became absolutely 100% real and his, merged into it. Probably a better way to say it. Yeah. I think that's really what's on offer here. We shouldn't diminish this in any way, shape or form. You know, Bob has stood here and has just, you know, stood here and stood here and kept standing here in this, this exquisite perfection of knowing that, you know, what is on offer here is everything. You know, the world has it all topsy turvy.

Yeah. Like, you know, the world has it all topsy turvy. Yeah. And this that we're doing here is just an illusion. This is what the world may prompt you or tempt you to believe and that my, my so-called real everyday world is what's real and somehow the only way we're going to deal with this teaching which is actually completely confronting, confrontery, isn't it? Yeah. To what we conceive to be, you know, our normal everyday life. And this thing that I take myself to be initially is trying to put it somewhere in the library, you know, and yet still go on with everyday life. You know, the old argument that, you know, what about the shopping or the kids or, you know, but, you know, I just wanted to underline, you know, because, you know, I think that, you know, by Bob's example, he has given us a great lesson without words and that is that if you just stand in, in this and just keep living it every day because it is only, it is the truth.

You know, you have to see it once to have everything else wiped away, you know, just at least for an instant. Ultimately, one just wakes up one morning if you like and realizes that, you know, you're flipped back, it's flipped over the other way where you see only the truth and everything else is an illusion. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. Thank you. Thank you. See much comments there, but nobody else want to speak. I just remembered I shared with Peter this morning, I came back from a friend of mine who found God through the Bible. Yeah. He was a Christian and he was very interested in the Bible.

And I wrote a book called the Bible to Christian religion. And it just struck me how the seeking journey starts from looking for something else or someone else. For Bob, it was also looking for the higher power. He read the book by a Catholic priest who was an alcoholic. And he says, you've got to find out what is that higher power, which gives you a second chance in life. So the quest for God, looking for the higher power. higher power for something that gave you life or gave you chance for life or source of love whatever you want to call it or there are other type of seekers who jump straight into who am i what is me or finding myself and even finding myself is looking for a third person because well who is finding myself who is looking for myself is kind of weird question but the funny thing is that once the seeking stops you can call yourself a finder but there is no one there who is a finder once the seeking stops there is no difference between me myself god power higher lower nothing all those concepts completely relax and it's just this magnificent moment of being miracle of being miracle of aliveness in which there is no need to seek anything be it god or be love be it me or be it myself, doesn't matter.

That relaxes and in that relaxation there is a relief, there is a peace, there is a rightness, there is a feeling of completeness, feeling of being home and realizing that this is not new. This is not something that have just been found or discovered. This is something that is always there underlying the turmoil. Like Tanya was saying, she said radiant clarities everywhere and nowhere without attention on the obstruction. Because as Peter was saying the attention constantly runs to shopping or kids or what they think about me, what am I gonna do, what's gonna happen in future and that are all just a conceptual, what you call it Julia?

You call it... Right! ... mind caca, just the story, just the distraction, just the imagination, so the attention feeds the imagination, it feeds what isn't, it constantly focuses on imagined kids, because we don't have any kids right here, right now, we don't imagine shopping, there's no shops here now, imagine that they exist in some mental space called time, future or past, that's all imagined, because the moment imagination stops, it all dissolves, and this moment is the only reality that can be experienced, and if the making sense of this reality also relaxes, you can't even say there is a world, because there is just the being, and there may be shapes, and forms which you may be habitually labeling, but you understand that you are beyond the habit of labeling and making sense of things.

So that floating narrative in that space is just part of the happening, it's not something that you do. And that again, it's always here now, it's home. There is no, even if part of the happening is that judgment about me being not enough, or me being fat or slim, as if I was the body, who's there to object to even that? So nothing sticks anymore, nothing can become strongly charged to be that obstruction, obscuration, that hides that basic space, or sky of, of you, or, or, the being and it's just it is just too simple to be understood by the narrative by conceptualizing it's too obvious and too basic to be put in words or pointed it because the moment we label or even describe things that computer by a computer start looking outside itself to find it and start imagining it and now is chasing some weird state of eternal bliss or at light enlightenment or sub-chit Ananda which is something out there to be achieved or something to become and that relaxed state underneath that mind seeking is there the only way is to be able to see the whole world and to be able to see the whole world and to realize it is to withdraw the attention from this tension that comes from seeking and as Peter said even if that happens just for an instant through the day for a moment like the moment wasn't there was no thought no definition without the thoughts there was no me because me the the label the the idea that I am something comes only with the thought without the thought there is nothing I can't even say there is a body because I need the thought for that and like you mentioned Douglas Harding he his little story is no face you've got no head he's got no head and I remember that from the time I was working on the ships where I always like to draw and sometimes there was stormy weather and for days and days we were just sitting and rolling and was nothing else to do no navigation there was I was just drawing whatever was there every little detail on the bridge including my own body starting from here with the cross legs never ahead I was never having an ahead to draw it has never appeared in the field of attention long before I had about Douglas Harding every child knows that but through the conditioning we forgot and we started projecting because you all have heads so assumption is I do too but it's not an experience you wanted to say something that's lovely I didn't really want to say anything at all but the truth is I understand it is that it can't be spoken with words it can be it can only be that I can't know it once in a while we the mind can get do its thing what mind?

no mind it's all a dream the whole thing all of it including a thought about a mind which is like I still like that metaphor of the candle when you blow it out actually there was no smoke before you blew it out the candle flame and then you blow it out and you see the smoke going back to the nothing right there it's beautiful you asked me to speak but then I'm reminded to just shut up because all the speaking seems to be trying to point out anything that which you can't really say in words really so the other day I think he's got me on a spotlight because the other day I admitted to picking up a book listening to an audio book no I didn't do it it just happened but that's also part of the narrative the excuse that's enabling the pattern you know oh I'm not doing this anyway so why not somebody you didn't even know I do that a lot and what do I do?

and it was coming through and it was different then wasn't it? the truth the plain truth was coming out all the time it's so much easier to talk to people that don't have for me it's a lot easier to discuss this when I'm not in the company of people who are very advanced in this who have heard this maybe it's just more fun that's bullshit fair enough it doesn't suit of you. Tell us, what do you know for certain? Exactly, yeah. Absolutely for certain, without a doubt. You know there's no free will. The only thing I can know for certain, and again, this is something I've heard before, is just that I am.

That's it. That's the only thing I know, and I can also know that from just knowing. That's the only thing I absolutely know. You can't deny that I am. Everything else is mental caca and a thought about whatever I'm thinking I am, which I didn't have a thought. That'll go back to even before the words I am. I don't even know that. Right? Because those words didn't happen at birth. They weren't there. And yet, I knew I was. So, those words don't... I don't even know about that. Yeah, but you know the follow-up. The consequence of that is that you have no free will. You have, you know, the stuff that you usually tell to strangers, which sounds beautiful when you sing it out.

Oh, yeah. No, yeah, the free will. Yeah, well, that's what I was babbling on about a little bit because this man was trying to say, well, he was trying to define free will to suit his argument of what free will... Free will is just the contemplating when we contemplate before making a choice. And then the guy who was interviewing him said, well, what about those times where maybe you didn't eat enough, or you did eat, or your energy went down, and then that just totally takes away your whole argument of free will, doesn't it? And then he... Even then, I was just like... Yeah, but he was like...

It doesn't matter. It's like... You're right. Go ahead. I just want to give you a little bit of feedback. Go ahead. When you had the microphone earlier when Bob and Kat asked you a question, you came down into yourself, and in that moment, it was exquisite. Yeah? I felt that you had just withdrawn and were deeply looking at who you really are. And, you know, communicating from that place is all that we really want, isn't it? Thank you. Well, I'm just thinking about how I actually integrate stuff. I'm always interested in the practical. How do I make a difference in my life? How do I...

How do I do... How am I less in the head and more elsewhere? So, when I look back over my seeking, and I, you know, I have done a lot of that. Yeah. When I look back at the seeking journey, I have... Most of the progress has just come intuitively. You know, like life's just moved me in a particular direction to do a particular something. Right? And... Um... If I think of all the books I've read, well, I don't read them anymore. All those books, they're not... They're not... They were just a vehicle to get me to what I thought was somewhere. But, um, I do journal a lot, and, uh, I did get a message in there a while back that said, you're missing something you've already got.

So, I... I'm less dissatisfied. And then I can put my attention... I got the sense is we've... There's a lot of gifts inside all of us, and they're... And I think that's what I'm trying to do. And that's life itself. And to explore that, it's like it's late in the day for me, but I better get on and just explore all the... the jewels that life's already got without having to really put a lot of labels on anything. Um, and mostly I can't do it in words. I can only just feel it. That's my best... My best knowing is to feel. All my insights have come just through lived experience...

internal experience. You know, I couldn't even... I can't even explain stuff. There's been no point because it's... it's what I went... It was my connection. It's... I can't give it to someone else. They've got to get it for themselves. Um, so... Uh, but I... What is... I was interested in what you were saying was no free will. I suppose that's something I've not really thought about. Um, I've often looked at life and said, God, if there's free will out there, people are... It's a hell of a mess as a result. it might be better not to have it so i just said that when i compare us to the animal kingdom i say was that such a good idea giving so i wouldn't mind hearing people talk about no free will no free will no yes just to say i have couple of comments from people who are on who are online with us and we have sally saying thank you bob so clear and strong and patricia from argentina thanks so much oh hi patricia hi patricia and when are you coming out this way again yeah come and visit they open the borders and tanya says spot on cut that is being recognized presently thank you and bob so so much and a lot of smiley icons and faces dale allison good morning bob and all thanks cut it is very clear for me so true julia says tanya beautiful to hear such clarity expressed through words that are not the truth reality and i think that's a very good point and i think that's a very good point and i think that's a very good point and i think that's a very good point and i think that's a very a very good one and amarnath it is simplest of simple that cannot be thought or expressed at all all progress was notion for mind phantom ego to whom is progress or regress no more division of subject object that never existed good point amarnath and that could answer actually sue's question about free will if there is no one there have free will or confined will or any will at all if there is no separate entity.

That was the thing that this guy was not even going to. He wouldn't even go there. He would just kind of try to reason out with thoughts. But it's like, I don't know, I was thinking the other day about science. For example, I don't know, there's many different ways to treat something. For example, vitamins really helped a chemical condition of this brain that this brain has experienced. But they were called by the doctors as something that wouldn't work, would only cause expensive pee. And so when the science is studying the drugs, they'll say, well, we know from science that this works, but they're not looking at other stuff.

How can... You know what I'm saying? The science isn't even looking at that. And so when he's making his reasoning about you have this free will, he's not even looking at the fact that the me that can have free will is simply a thought. It's a description. Are you the body? I mean, and that's the assumption. That this body, there's an assumption, okay, that we are these bodies and that's what he's referring to. But if you... I kind of picked that up. But wait a minute. Is that what we are? Is this what I am? Am I this body? Am I the thought? And then if you look at...

I love the topic of free will because he was trying to say or argue that, oh, well, this free will thing, because we believe in free will, you're messing with socialization of a culture, okay? Because people don't believe in this, he's saying they're going to have less morality and all that stuff. And actually, for me, it's been kind of the other way around. There's been actually less beating myself and others up because of I do not believe in personal responsibility. And if there's no one personally responsible, there's no one to blame. If there's no one to blame, there's no one to judge. And when I'm not judging, I'm more able to be present and actually allow something or someone to be as it or they are, including the mind caca that shows up here.

You know? So... Did you want to jump in? So it's all right. Good. So it's all right. So something's clicking because I'm... Like, I'm a history buff, so I'm always trying to shove it into human history and culture, try to see where that... So I would think then that if you take out free will, you know, you'd be back to sort of more the mindset of, say, indigenous cultures that are more closely integrated with nature and life itself. And I don't know. I'm not an expert on any of those. But that's, you know, the connection with nature and the life force or life itself would take...

If you've got that ongoing continuity of connection, then a lot of these other concepts that are alive and well in Western culture... And I'm not saying they're wrong, right? Just... I will. Well, hang on. I just... I haven't thought about that. I haven't thought about it in this way. So I thought, well, that's interesting. It might be a bit of a relief to let a lot of them go, actually. Yes. And it would make for life being simpler and more natural. And out of that would come, I think, an automatic love and respect for others and for nature and for animals and for... That you wouldn't have to argue for in some elaborate scheme, you know, that doesn't come from the heart.

I don't know. I'm just thinking. It's just blaming and shaming, you see. That's right. So, you know, and I do love to bring up Jesus, you know, and I was a big fan, I still am, of the idea. Me too. But as he was on the cross, he said, forgive them, Father, for they do not know what they're doing. And that could be argued. They absolutely knew what they were doing. If I were to go out and look at them... If I were to go out and, like, take Peter here and hang you on a cross, okay, and then nail this stuff, and then everybody here in the room saw it happen, and then I'm going to court and I would say, Your Honor, I didn't know what I was doing.

See, that won't work. You know, but at least... But in... Yeah, I actually... The point I'm trying to make is he was seeing the innocence. He didn't even... There was no blaming. And... From the understanding where I'm coming from, the no blaming enables the seeing of innocence. The enables... Because I'm not saying you did this, or whatever, when I'm buying into this idea of free will, but when I'm believing in free will, you're absolutely guilty. Okay, but since I'm... I don't really... We don't blame the two-year-old who takes out a gun, and shoots somebody, do we? We blame their parents, but... You know what I mean?

We don't blame the child, because we don't see them as responsible. But... And there's still an ability to respond. Okay? So, anyway, you wanted to jump in. Okay. I've got something to say about free will. It's like, when I know clearly that I am that, and nothing but that, the idea of free will is an absolute joke. Like, it really is a whole conceptual world. It's a whole conceptual pattern. It doesn't even matter. We're not on about free will here. Hmm. Yeah. Well, it was just a tangent. We'll go on. Yeah. So, yeah, the concept is just not available. And you're just watching a show.

You don't question, am I moving my hand or not? It's just movement of hand, words, other... Like, everything is just one big show. And so, it's not even a topic. It's just a topic as such. Right. But to put a lot of tension into something that... It can be a topic in society, but yeah. Well, it is a topic, but in society, like infinite other topics. Yes, I agree with Dan that everything is perfectly right. When one's mind is given over, if you like, you could say aligned with God's will. You could use that term if you wanted. It really, to me, just expresses the notion that I am in perfect harmony with all that is because I am not separate from anything or anything at all.

There is no mind apart from my mind because my mind is absorbed into the totality of the total mind or mind with a big M. Now, the unborn Buddha mind, what does the unborn Buddha mind mean? It means simply that an idea of separation has in fact not been born into reality. It's already... It can never leave the totality of that which is. We walk through this world in the knowledge of that, as Kath has been saying this morning, that all is right with the world. Because God is in everything I see or that which... Everything is a reflection of that which is, which is...

There is no separation, no need to worry about a bloody thing at all. My will is the will of God. Amarnath says, nothing has happened, nothing is happening, and nothing will happen. No one is, will be, there. Yet everything comes from nothing, everyone is coming from no one. Two ends of the same stick. And now, John David, if you know that two plus two is four, no one can convince you otherwise. In the same manner, after hearing the truth from Bob, you can never go back to the false. Dream of being a separate person, as Bob says, you can't remove the same drop that fell into the ocean.

Love you, Bob and Kath. We love you, John. And now Amarnath says, mind itself, best arrangements, one becoming many. How funny is the inner court? No judge or victim or lawyer. Mind is the best argumentator. Mind is the best argumentator. Mind is the best argumentator. One becoming many. One plus one plus one plus one equals one. It itself is judge, victim, and lawyer, police, etc. How funny is the game? Including time, space, and person creates. And now we have all the icons. And I can also, because Sue, I know you like the practical applications, so the concept of free will can be very easily replaced by moral one.

And I can also, because Sue, I know you like the practical applications, so the concept of free will can be very easily replaced by moral one. Be likeable for Bob concept of dependent co-arising. Interdependent arising, like everything arises interdependently. There is nothing that has the separate nature, or can stand of its own. And especially, the imagined self, that could make choices or decisions. And especially, the imagined self, that could make choices or decisions. So anybody when that body lives in a particular environment with no 의 vigils and no program. So anybody when that body lives in a particular environment with no // своев». environment with particular parents or political system will become whatever, the Hitler or something because this is the whole world that created that response in that body because that body and that world are arising interdependently.

They cannot exist without each other. So everything influences everything. And nothing could be other than what is. Exactly. There is infinite innocence in the way the game of life unfolds. And of course, looking from particular perspective calls for judgment. This is wrong. This shouldn't have happened. There shouldn't be wars and things like this. But if you see that even that judgment is just another way of interdependent arising, if the environment wasn't the way it was, that thought wouldn't have arised. So that thought and environment are one in essence. Just polarizing and appearing as. Yeah. Separate seeming entity in the dream so they can be recognized.

The existence can be recognized. The silence recognized as a background of the noise and the emptiness as a background of the forms. That's how it gets glimpse of its own existence because in the non-existence there is no consciousness. Even the consciousness is codependently arising, interdependently arising, the body, the brain and all that. So it is perfectly resolved really in the unborn mind as Peter was already pointing. But yes, the question of free will is something that calls for arguments, discussions and fights. But presented in the obvious way in which you can relate it to your own life. Like would you have the same religion if you were born in Afghanistan?

Obviously not. So that's really even using logic and imagination can very easily deceive you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now people maybe almost compel myself to dispute that notion of having free will, but first of all, who is there to have it? Uh huh. Because if that is addressed, then all consequences of that illusion goes with it. And as you said, Julia, naming, blaming, shaming, you understand that not only there is no one who is separate to be blamed, there is just one dance of one life.

including the blaming and the shaming which is just part of the dance which is just like the day and night there wouldn't be day if there was no night it wouldn't be good if there wasn't bad and good and bad are judgments they unfold because of the structure of the biocomputer because they can and even to say because it's already a lie because there isn't really a cause it's a causeless or how you call it karma less choiceless manifestation which isn't really there it is and it isn't it's just awareness choiceless awareness and I think it's really important to remember that all dogma drops away in the realization of who you really are as that this is not a an exercise in accumulating dogma the right concepts at all can never be and if one is doing that and you feel that you've arrived in the next minute you're going to be flattened for certain so yeah thank you Maureen would you like to add something you had such a gorgeous insight I'm kind of amazing to hear you um I just keep working on what um very simple yeah I don't think it's what I've got to get I work on what I've got to give away so I if I keep when I see my thoughts arising and I'm attached to them and I recognize that's what's causing me why is it causing me suffering because I feel terrible.

So then I look for the I, it's not there and when I work with that then I experience freedom, more freedom and I'm happier. So my most personal and in-depth work is each time that I've been able to let go of that thought that's got the feeling, that's got the experience, then something else is in me that's always been there because I'm here. It's almost like I get a sense of, I wouldn't say a blessing but you know, freedom. So that's enough work for me to do. So as I constantly do it because throughout the day I constantly get reactions to people or things. And straight away I identify, hey, who's that little me that's, I don't even give that much criticism.

I just identify with what's the shadow of that? It's not even real. Just work on it, let it go and then I feel more loving. I don't feel more so upset. I sleep more peacefully. But for me that's a constant at the moment. That's the constant. It's a constant work and therefore I feel I'm actually nicer, you know, to my, to whoever I'm with. Beautiful. Be it strangers or anyone. It frees me up. But it's a work in progress. Just identify. But it's not a hard work is it? Pardon? It's not a hard work. It depends. Some eyes that arise sometimes could have a lot of energy behind it.

But as I look, I'm not. It's not a hard work. It's not a hard work. It's not a hard work. I look at it and I witness it or then I sometimes get a little bit deeper and ask, well who's the observer? But if I do that then it trails off everywhere else. So at the moment I'm happy to say to myself, hey, more freedom that's coming through the work Bob taught me. And more love's arising, more peace, bit by bit. So that's all that's important to me. Yeah. Um. Not just to me. To this ex- Of Christ. Of whatever it is. Call it God, life, intelligence.

Yeah. I feel like I'm looking in the right direction. Put it that way. Because the other direction only caused me lots of unhappiness. You see the result. Yeah. So I'm in other ways. Just looking in the direction. Call it light instead of dark. Yeah. It's easy. That's all right. Beautiful. Thank you. I love what you said. That. You know, it's actually really the moment you look, the investigation happens and that identification is dropped when you call it a shadow. Because you know there is no self, but it's some sort of a shadow that is lingering there. And it seems like there is an effort. But see how much harder life would be without it.

Hard. See, it really is an effort. I'm knowing that. Yeah. You've known that. We all knew that when we were going through the path of seeking. And suffering. How much harder is it to live without looking? Is there any self? Is there anyone there? Because the moment you look, even if it seems like there is a little bit of an effort to ask that question. Is there anyone home? Or who is getting offended? Or whatever. Even if it feels like an effort, it's just so much more energy efficient to do it. You may actually see how it automatically arises. How it doesn't take effort. How it.

That thought of investigating shows up out of the blue without putting any effort. You can recognize that is an effortless effort already. Because it's obviously not you coming up with that thought. That thought comes through the, you know, through your trusting Bob and through the experiences that you already had. It's already habitually coming when there is an identification. There comes investigation. Work in progress, that's how it feels. But it really is energy wise. It really is release in progress. The opposite of work. I mean instead of involving a lot of effort. You actually drop that identification which is an effort. Like contraction, investigation, relaxation. So the more of the relaxation.

The. This. I'm talking too much now. I do feel though there's a trust behind it all. I think was very clearly stated to me from Bob. When I'm sleep, because I had, I thought I didn't trust. But when Bob said, you know, when you're sleeping, who breathes your heart? Who breathes your lungs? The most important job of life. Who's, don't you trust? You don't stand over your bed saying, hey, you're going to have another heartbeat. That struck me so deeply because I thought already I've got the trust. So even though it looks like a little bit of work, that's only habits, but any habits hard to break.

Doesn't matter what it is. Addiction, any other one. So this is just a habit of the me that wants to stay important. But I feel that. And now I recognize in some way the trust life supports me. Life supporting this work to help me to to be free and happy. So I've got the breaking of the habit, so to speak. And I've got the trust to support me. So those two things, I think, go hand in hand from from you helping me understand back to my truth. Bob. Closer to it, as you say. Mm hmm. And recognizing these things more by the pure of that being is.

Yeah. That's beautiful. I like that. Pure of being. Yeah. Rather than their critical, critical self. Mm hmm. Yeah. Thank you. What was your name again? Maureen. Thank you, Maureen. Beautiful. I hope that doesn't become a dogma and crystallize and. No. Yeah. No, that's there's no. Well, yeah. I'll just say that that. I have nothing more to say. We have Amarna says, Thank you, Peter. Dropper himself dropped away. And of course, all the laughter that's from Amarna. And Elliot is watching. Hi, Elliot. And JB says, Bob and Kat love you both. Great spiel this morning, Bob. Loving all the input as well. If there is a question here, it is answered almost as soon as it arises by you guys.

That's nice. And Amarna's beautiful shadows playing on shadows. Me in the first blind spot or shadow on one becoming many on waking state, many becoming one prior to deep sleep, waking and being. And I'm going to read you a little bit of the book. I'm going to read you a little bit of the book. I'm going to read you a little bit of the book. Waking and deep sleep itself is another shadow. How funny is the game theater of shadows. Amarna, that's beautiful. I really like your teaching, Marjorie. Maureen, sorry, Maureen. Because you express that wonderful simplicity about it. This is not a very complicated thing at all.

All it depends on is one's initial desire, really. You go, yeah, yeah, if you, what one's motivation is. You have to really, do you want to wake up? Do you want to know, really, do you really, really want to know the truth about yourself? Because you have seen the futility and the intangibility of the world that you're trying to exist in prior to that desire, that urge to go home arising in you. And I think it's important to ask that question of oneself if you haven't already. And, yeah, we get really clear about that. I'm talking to myself, yeah, who is now going to be quite a bit older.

Yeah. I think there's some comments just arrived now. Oh, no, it didn't arrive on my phone just yet. You want to say something? Yeah. The capacity to express this is seen in everyone here. You can do it. Yeah. You know, just recognise it. And that way others will want to hear it. And you will be the ones who can do it. You will be the ones who will be able to express it to them. That's how it's passed on. So we don't have to get locked into all the other stuff. There's plenty of other people out there, the neuroscientists, the physicists and everybody else out there.

They can talk, describe the other stuff to you. But the pure essence, the pure reality that you are, keep with that. That's where the peace is. That's where the love is. That's where the joy is. It can't be expressed if it's not recognised. Beautiful. And also that was one practical thing. Another one in what you were saying, Maureen. You say you're looking in, you're finding no one, the relaxation happens and you're much kinder to yourself and everyone around. That's where the source of love, that's the source of serenity. Like, how do I treat the world if I'm resentful? I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful.

I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm resentful. I'm steering the world, I mean. That's where the love comes from. That's the source of love, that's the source of serenity. Like, how do I treat the world if I'm resentful or angry or disappointed or mad because somebody did me wrong or something like that? Of course, like Bob says, they tread on your toes, you retaliate. But, if you drop it and you see that miraculous new moment, fresh and new and you're just curious with childlike curiosity and serenity, without anger and resentment. So the right answer is no.

resentment, disappointment, because that has been recognized as sticking to no one because there is no one there. What a nicer world, what a nicer way of treating reality. What an easier, more natural way. Like even there is research in psychology showing that we are nice, kind, serene, social creatures who are always happy to help, provided we are not busy, not self-obsessed, not stressed out, not rushing somewhere, because if we do we won't. We won't. We are wired to be self-centered, to provide for this body first before any other body. There were experiments conducted years and years back and they're still the same today. If you think your life is threatened, you would rather save your life.

If you think you're going to lose or you're going to go and get somewhere on time, you won't help that one way. You're going to be waiting on the street asking. But if you're happy, if you're light, if you don't have any problems, if you don't have any stresses, of course you will. If you have joy at heart, you naturally radiate, shine that joy outside. So to finding that place of serenity and joy without holding any story or resentment of me being wronged, that's the way where the projector is clean because you project that joy and happiness. You do not put that joy and happiness outside.

You clean up that evil of itself and there is no evil outside of you either. Everything is just innocent arising. That was beautiful. And now Ramses says, love you all. Thank you, Peter. How funny desire to wake itself was putting mind to sleep says Amarnath. And thank you, Kath. Grateful to you. In is out, out is in, beyond in and out, to whom is in and out, and the icons. Did you say Elliot said something on there before? No, he didn't say, but he was there. On there? Yes. Hi, Elliot. Yes. Good to hear from you. Yeah, good to hear the silence too. And they were thank you messages, so I guess are we nearing to the time of lunch?

Would anyone like to say something? Michael, we didn't hear you. Would you say something? Or Sebastian, you had a gorgeous mouth. I'm just loving sitting in the energy, really, so I don't feel like there's much to say. I mean, a few things came up, but I mean, Douglas Harding, when that was mentioned, and the beautiful exercise that he has where you look at the self, from different perspectives. So you might look in a mirror. I don't know if you'd take it further. Speak up. Sorry, Bob. Yeah, so you might look in a mirror. So Douglas Harding had a beautiful exercise looking at the self and saying, okay, who are you, what are you?

And the perspective as it changes, the self changes. So if you look in a mirror, you'll see yourself. Then you take yourself out and maybe take yourself up in the sky in a little speck. So then you take yourself beyond. You look down and you're the planet. And then you go out and you can't even see the planet anymore. And it's the same if you take your perspective from here and you have a microscope and you start looking at cells and you go into the cells and the subatomic particles. You drill down and down and down and down. And so the self, his explanation is the self is just a perspective.

It depends where you take that perspective from. Yeah, so that's a beautiful exercise that he's got. Yeah, so that's, yeah, it's just beautiful. Thank you. Just that I'm just psyching it up. Hey man, did you say anything? Would you like to add? Hey man. Nice to see you. Yeah, just being here with the energy. I work very, very hard, longing hours with the organization, which does not have. Time management. I mean, a good time management, a balanced time management. It's very inconsiderate time management. So when I sit on meditation, sit in silence, I fall in sleep. Julia mentioned something about the multivitamins and the brain chemicals.

That's very, very important because if we imagine, if we consider this body as an antenna which receives the universal frequency, well, if you damage the antenna, it's not going to work. So take care of your body and be quiet. Thank you. Thank you. A couple of more comments from people who are with us. There is one from Sally. The simplicity is so beautiful. I love when Bob says it doesn't have to be that way. Yep, it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be any suffering. It doesn't have to be. It's just surviving and dreadful. Thank you all, says Amarnath. And JB says, love you guys.

Thank you for excellent pointing, Bobcat, and everyone who has spoken this morning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Julia. Thank you.