Sailor Bob and troops on nonduality. Questions too are mind's chatter. 27-02-2022

Non-duality we talk about, a Hindu tradition, what they call Advaita, non-duality. And non-duality means not two, one without a second, only the one. And that is all there is. Everything is that one. Can you hear me all right? Yes. So I can't teach you anything. And I can't tell you anything. All I do here is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself. Because it's you and you alone that can understand it. There is nothing other than that one. And that's what we need to realise. Because we've taken on the idea that we are these separate entities, these individuals, persons.

And... Yeah. That is the problem. That's why we have trouble with our fears, our anxieties, our stresses, all the psychological problems come about. Because of that idea of separation. And we believe there is a power greater than ourselves. Instead of seeing it's all the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. And if that's so, you and I and everything else must be. It must be that. And we call this, I, our greater power, God. So there's me and God. There's me and you. There's me and this and that. So we've got this belief that we are separate. And suffer accordingly. But there is no separation.

When you investigate things and look at things, you'll recognise that and see for yourself. Another way I put it is, what is it? I can't teach you anything, I can't tell you anything, that's right. Come to that later on, it doesn't matter anyway. So that's what we need to look at and investigate and see if we are disbelieved in person. Where does that word person come from? It comes from the ancient Latin, I think it is, persona, the mask. So while we believe we're a person, we've got this mask or belief that we are separate, a conceptual image. So the person is not reality. The sense of separation and individuality, though it's seemingly so, is not so.

There is not two, only the one. And if it's only one, everything is that. Well, have a look at it. Are you this body? Are you this mind? Are you this person? Well, when you look at it, you're not. Innately, you say my body, my mind. You also say my house, my car, my cat, my dog, whatever it is, hey, the house, car, cat or dog, you're not. So maybe you're not the body either when you say my body. And you say my mind. But what we say also is the false cannot stand up to investigation. These things need to be investigated and looked into.

You say you were born, but can anyone remember your birth? You can't. You don't remember anything until you're about two, two and a half years of age when the capacity of reasoning develops in you and you learnt words. Before that, you had no words. Yet you were living quite well. Your parents were looking after you, you had no words. So how can you say you were born? That's why we don't remember our birth. You can't remember your birth because you had no words. And you didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half. So you are prior to the word, to the concept.

And the word's not the thing. Take the word water. Can you drink the word water? The word fire. Can, does it burn your mouth or can you cook with it? The word, you can't. So the word is not the thing. But we put meanings into it and take it to be the thing. But when you say my body, investigate that. When you say my body and you say my car, my house, you know that. What's the body made up of? Investigate it. And see the body's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. And all those elements, see how it works.

Take the air out of your body, stop breathing. You wouldn't last too long. Take the fire, the body temperature, you get a hyperthermia and die without the body temperature. Take the water, your body's 60% water. Without the water, you wouldn't last. Too long, get out of space if you can. You can't. So you see the body made up of all these elements and that's, those elements, the vibrating energy in those elements is the life of this pattern you call the body. Made up of. And the same with my mind. You say my mind, well show me your mind. Can anyone show me a thing called mind?

Have a look at that. See if you can. See for yourself. What do you believe this mind is? When you look into it you realise all the mind is is thought. Thoughts are going on which we call mind. Well if you are, believe you are the mind and mind is the thought, which particular thought would you be? And you realise the nearest one to it would be this I thought. If you were the thought, if you were the I thought, you'd be frightened of losing it. Without the thought. And yet you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. Pointing out that you're not the I thought.

You're not any particular thought. Thoughts are appearing in this pattern, shape and form you call the body. So you're not the body. You are not the mind. You are not the person or individual. And certainly not the word. And the word is not the real, it's not the thing. And that's what we need to look at. What are you without the word? They call it the Advaita Sat Chitta Danda Nama Rupa. They're the five factors of Advaita. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness. Ananda is loving to be. And the Nama is the name we've given ourselves. And the Rupa is the form, body, mind. And they tell you in the scriptures that the body, mind is Maya.

It's illusion. So are you the body? Are you the mind? Well, that's an illusory pattern. You say my body, my mind. So you're not the body or the mind. Now, Sat is existence. Anybody who is not existing right now. Now you'll realize I am, I'm existing. Anyone who's not conscious right now. Well, you're certainly not a conscious. You're not unconscious or unaware as anyone who is unaware. You're not. So you are that consciousness and awareness. Anyone who is not happy to be. Well, nobody would want to be dead right now, would you? You certainly wouldn't. You'd rather be than not be. So you see, you already are that Sat Chitta Danda.

And you don't have to seek to become something. But when we've got this concept, we are this person. We are this body, mind. And we think we need to become realized, to become so-called God-like or at one with God. Becoming is not being. And can you negate your beingness right now? We call ourselves human beings. And if you believe in God, you call God the Supreme Being. You can't say you're not being right now. But take that label Supreme off. And take the label human off. Can you separate the beingness without the label? Can you negate your beingness? You can take those labels off, but you cannot say you are not.

So again, it points out that you're already that. And you must realize from that that you've always and ever been that. We've lost sight of it. We've lost sight of it when we picked up words. We learned words like I and me and this and that and all the other words. We learned words from our parents. And then at the age of about two, two and a half, when we started to recognize and pick up these words ourselves, and we went to school, and we learned more words. And then we started believing in these words and picked up more words along the way. And Shakespeare told you four or five hundred years ago, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

So we're thinking these words and label them in good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. Have a look at your mind and see if it functions any other way. And then there's dualistic opposites. With words. And the Sargadatta tells you the same thing in different words. He says, nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Now realize that. We're troubled by not realizing that we're all these concepts or words. I'm no good or I'm fearful or I'm anxious or I'm unhappy. But nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Break that word imagination down to imi jin. Imagine. And isn't that what we're doing?

All your thoughts, feelings and emotions are creating mental or conceptual images. Based on these words we picked up and learned. Taking the word to be the real. So now we are this imagined pattern. Me, Bob, the Australian, the good fella, who's having a bad trot or is unhappy. Or people don't like me or I'm not good enough. I've got to do this, I've got to do that. All conceptual or mental images which I take to be real. And suffer accordingly. See how that functions. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well I've had this before, experienced before and it's good. And we don't want the good things to go.

We want them to be there all the time. Not realising that they're transient. This manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. And that body, you mightn't believe it, that's sitting in the room right now, is not the same body you walked into the room with. There's not one cell dying in it right now, but there are thousands of cells dying in it right at this moment. And being replaced. So you see that the body and the thinking is transient. It's constantly changing. So what's it all appearing in? Well the basic screen in which everything appears is space. Isn't it? You're in space right now. And you're seeing space.

You can recognise space. Now space, when you look into it, can you find a centre to it? Does it have a centre? Or somewhere where you can begin? When you look at it, you see space has got no centre at all. Does it have a boundary to it? A circumference or a boundary? Is there any inside or outside to it without a boundary or without a centre? There's not. Now postulate and think of anything, if you can, that would be outside of space. You postulate and think of it. There's nothing that is outside of space. So everything is the content of space. Now you are a thing.

I am a thing. The trees are a thing. The flowers are a thing. Everything in this manifestation are things. Appearing in space, which is no thing. Now have a look at that. Can something come from no thing? Well it can't. We are all the content of space. And so is everything else in this manifestation. And space is no thing. So it's all appearance. As they say, the nama rupa, the name and the form are maya. Meaning illusion. So it's an illusory manifestation, a dreamlike illusory manifestation. And they say it's a phenomenal manifestation. And your dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, we are all appearances.

Seemingly patterning, shaping and forming and appearing. And it is that life essence or vibrating life or intelligence entity that's seemingly enlivening each and every pattern in this manifestation. So you can reflect and call it that. It's all the one essence, all life. Now take the life out of that body. And what have you got? You've got a corpse. That corpse before it rots and breaks down. Still got eyes. Still got ears. Still got the voice box, the heart, the lungs, all the kidneys, brain. All the organs are still there. But what has happened? The life essence or the power has gone out of it. So there's not a bit of good to it.

And the lesser is starting to rot and break down and go back into the space like awareness again. So where does that leave you? What must you realise in that? When you realise, well, I am the life. I am that life. And isn't that what Christ said? And isn't that what Christ told you a couple of thousand years ago when he says, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself, which we've all mistaken. Oh, he was the way. He was the truth. He was talking about that sense of presence that translates through the mind as the thought I am.

How would you tell anybody who you are if you didn't use that word, which we picked up along the way. You didn't have to tell you about to tell that. It translates as the thought I am. So when he says, I am the way, I am the truth and the life, he's talking about that life. And you can say the same thing because you are life itself. Without that life, you're all corpses. You're no good at all. But while that life is there, that is what you are. And there is only life. That is all there is. A good analogy for that life thing is the same.

Take your computer. You've got the life that you are as fashioned and formed a computer and put all these things in it. You've got all that information in it. You can punch that key as much as you like and run that mouse over it as much as you like. If the power's not turned on, what are you going to get out of it? So isn't it the same with this body and mind? If that life power is not there, what are you going to get? It's no good to you at all. So you must be the life itself. But we've lost sight of that. And the parents didn't know that when you learnt words and told you you were Little Johnny or you were Little Billy or you were Little Jane or Joey or whatever your name might be.

And I am Little Johnny. And I'm a good boy or a bad boy or I'm this, that and the other. Instead of saying, I am the absolute, because that's what that space-like awareness is. It's absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing whatsoever. What can you take away from it? Not the smallest, minutest thing. It wouldn't be absolute if it could. Or they call it in Buddhism the great perfection. Perfection's the same as the absolute. What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away from it? But in Buddhism they give it in one sentence. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness.

Anybody who is unaware right now, no, you'll say, I'm aware. But there are all sorts of concepts going on. I'm this, that, that, blah, blah. He's talking a lot of crap or whatever it might be. But take the concepts off it. Has the awareness disappeared? It hasn't. Because you're still alive. You're still breathing. And it's that awareness that is breathing you. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. Replacing cells in your body. It's rolling the earth around the sun. It's causing the seasons to come and go. The tides to come in it. You can call it God if you like.

But I don't use that term here. Because you can get confused with that term. Because all the great traditions you look into, they all have a different version of what God is. And so my God is better than your God. And we fight about this term God. But it tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. That's all that God is, the Word. The Word God. All things were made by him, by the Word. Not only God that's made, but every other thing we got the Word on. Put the Word on, on the label. And there was nothing made that was made without the Word.

And that's what we've done. We've taken I am Bob, the Australian novelist, and we think we are this Word. Not realising you are the life. The life essence. In which words and everything else, pattern, shapes and forms, are the peers. So everything is made up of words. And the words not the real. So that's why we need to investigate. And the saying is, which is a true saying, the false cannot stand up to investigation. And that is true. There's so many things you've already seen in your life and investigated. And find they're not real. Go down to the sea, and I'll say, get a bucket of blue water out of the sea.

You'd say, don't be ridiculous. Because you know the sea, the ocean's not blue. But it doesn't stop appearing to be blue. The blue sky. If you go outside on a clear day, there's a seemingly blue canopy over it. Go up 30 or 40,000 feet in the plane, that blueness will still be outside. Because the sky is not blue. No, it appears to be blue. The water in the Mirage. Driving along the road, and what appears to be a pearl of water on the road, you drive up to it, it's not there. There are so many things, there are so many things that we've investigated and seen through and know the truth.

The rainbow. You go outside on a misty day, and there seems to be colours in the sky. You go up and drive up and you won't find any colour in the sky. I've got a crystal in the window over there. When the sun shines round the rest, it shines through the crystal, and it breaks up into colours on the wall. Three or four colours in all sorts of different places. Go over to the wall and try and pull a colour off the wall. You can't. Go over to the crystal and look in and see how many colours you can see in the crystal. You can't see any colours because it's clear.

All these different things when you look into them, see they're not the truth. When you look into this body-mind idea and believe you are that, you are not. You'll see that you are the reality. And people, a lot of people, realise or recognise that there's a bit more to it than this. They've tried out all these traditions and taken on the concept that they're sinners and bad and wrong, something right or wrong, and all the rest of it, and believed in them without question. But those of you are not content with that. They think there's got to be a bit more to it than that.

And they come along and start looking into other things. And if you look into it, it'll point you into the truth. In the right direction if you keep following it up. And in this case, you recognise that you are not the person. You are already that life essence. The one without a second. The not two. That pure presence awareness. And that'll take you home. Because we use the analogy of the sun and the clouds to point it out. You go outside on a cloudy day, and you see the sun's not in the sky. You wouldn't. Because you know that the sun doesn't leave the sky.

And the vastness of the sun is so great that no matter how many clouds there are, they can never really block out the sun. There will be some place in the cosmos where the sun will be shining freely. But where we are, it's blocking it. The cloud is blocking it out. Investigate that. And ask yourself, what forms the cloud that's seemingly obscuring the sun? And you'll recognise that it's the sun itself that forms the cloud. Now the sun doesn't know anything about a cloud. And it never will. Because of its vastness. But in its radiance, the heat, what does it do? It evaporates water. The water rises, and cools down and condenses a bit, and forms a cloud, which obscures the sun.

The sun continues to shine, and the radiance again, what does it do? It evaporates water, or brings it down as rain, and evaporates it, and the clouds disappear. Now what happens when there's no clouds in the sky? Isn't there much more clarity? In that clarity there's more brilliance and warmth in the sun. We say affectionate, or warmness, warmness in it. Shines with more clarity. Well what do you think would happen here, when you've got all these concepts and images, that are blocking your true nature? If you saw through it, and recognise the true nature? Well wouldn't there be more warmth there? More affection, a natural compassion?

A sense of wellbeing, without all the concepts that are going on, and obscuring it? A recognition, or a realising, or a knowing, that you are that clarity? We're talking about becoming realised. Well all the realisation is a recognising of your true nature. That you are already that. And they call it a cognising, an emptiness. An emptiness that has that cognising or knowing. And we think we've got to cognise the emptiness. But it's not we don't have to cognise it, it's the emptiness itself that's doing the cognising. And we need to recognise that, because that's what the Buddha told us. That emptiness is form. It's the cognising emptiness that's forming all this manifestation.

And you, me and everything else are the content of this manifestation. So he made the statement that emptiness is form, and he turned it around the other way and said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. Don't leave any way out. You and I as forms are that emptiness, patterning and appearing and expressing, as these human forms, body, minds, and all the concepts and words we've put on them. But be what you are. The absolute, pure, intelligence, energy. I don't use the term God, because you can get confused with that term because of all the different labels they've got on it. I use the term intelligence, energy.

And that's just another concept too. That's not it. It's a way of describing it. When I talk about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellect. Because there are different degrees of intellect in this room. A lot of you are smarter than I'm ever likely to be. Some of you mightn't be quite so. I'm talking about the same intelligence that's rolling the earth around the sun, that's breathing and beating your heart, causing the seasons to come and go. Doesn't it imply intelligence? It's enabling to do that. And what's energy? Energy is an activity, a vibration, a movement. Now intelligence energy is the activity of knowing. And that's what's happening with you right now.

Everybody is knowing right now. And so you are that intelligence energy. It's patterning, shaping and forming in each unique expression. But the expressions, the pattern, shapes and forms are mire. They're only appearing to be so. So when the pattern, shape and form breaks down, where does that life go? Where could it go? But back into the space. It's the content of space. Where can anything that seemingly disappears go? What else is there apart from space? If you're going back into space. So do you think you'll ever get the same life out of it again? Just the same as the rain comes down, goes into a river, and the river goes back into the ocean.

Do you think you'll ever get the same drop of water out of it again? You won't. Do you think you'll ever get the same life? So that puts the thing on the so-called idea of the universe. And the so-called idea of reincarnation. Each life that comes up, every pattern, shape and form is a unique expression. Only one and the same. And you are the life. Always have been. And always will be. So if you want to continue to be the person, the separate entity, go ahead. But as I say, something comes up and you like it, we don't want the good things to go, not really as transient, no matter how much you love it, or how much you want to keep it there, it's going to change.

We don't want this to go. So what do we do? We try to keep it there. We resist it from going. I don't want this to go. I want the good things to be there all the time. So we resist it from going. And don't you realise, any resistance you are in is in conflict. Resistance is conflict. So you're fighting with it. You're in conflict with it. And that fight or conflict makes you unhappy, fearful, anxious, depressed, guilty. It's all psychological suffering. So another word for that is uneasiness. Another word for uneasiness is disease. So that's where the pattern now has become, in conflict with itself, uneasiness and disease.

Something comes up that you don't like. Oh, I shouldn't be thinking that. I'm a sinner or I'm a bad person, a bad boy for thinking that thing. I don't want that to happen. What do we do? We resist it again. Again in conflict and again in disease. So that's what our life is made up of. It's constant conflict and disease. The fear, the anxiety, depression, the guilt, the shame, remorse. All your psychological suffering comes about from that resistance that's going on. So it's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be depressed. So they talk about so-called karma.

All karma is is cause and effect. So you see it's this me that is the cause when they believed in me. Because you ask yourself the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating to the cause? And you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. If you're not relating to a cause, where can the effect lodge? If you're not relating to a cause, you can be rid of all this so-called karma. Everything will be fresh and new as it is. Constantly changing, constantly expressing. Always and ever that freshness and newness. One without a second. That's what we point to.

That's what we point to. And that's what we talk about. So, away you go. Any questions, any doubts, any arguments? Got there. Yeah. Well, you've all heard it so many times. And a lot of you have got a good understanding of it. Some of you can express it quite well. Some of you are still in the early stages and struggling with it a bit. And some of you might have doubts. Or questions or arguments. So, get it out there. Right. So, just the question. So, in a lot of the Eastern traditions that have been strong on both illusion and non-duality, and a lot of them have talked at length about karma.

So, if karma is just, I don't know, an illusion, why have they gone so heavily for... It seems like you've got both a contradictory thing. Why have they gone so heavily for the same set of teachings? Why did they do it? Was it just the age and stage of the population? They needed something to take them to the next level? I don't get it. It has to become something. And if they don't get this realisation or understand, they'll suffer rebirths and all these sorts of life. It keeps them in fear. What's going on? Not realising it. They recognise it and see it's only the one and they are already that.

What are the priests and all the different religions going to do? What are they going to be left with? I don't want to wrap it up. So, is karma sort of like a way of staying in business for the priesthood like what hell is for the Christians? I don't mean, you know, sort of. Karma, like? Karma. Yeah, like that. No, karma. Stay in business. Sort of like hell is for the Christians to keep the population frightened and in their place. I don't know. Is that right? When they realise that the word hell comes from the old English, held being means shut off from. It's not a place called...

When we shut ourselves in, they'll put sheep in a corral for a night, they're held. If we put these concepts and words on and believe them, cause all these problems for ourselves. Shut off from the sunlight of spirit. Do we want to include... We have a couple of questions and comments from people who are watching with us online. And there is Catherine and James saying, so lovely to be with you Bob and Kat. Have been through a few problems recently and watching you again and again has made me realise that I do not need to carry the burdens of this world as I am not this body or mind.

Thank you. Thank you for your pointers. Thank you. Beautiful. It's a beautiful input. And Tanya says, Bob and or Kat, what would you say to someone who has an addiction, like exercise addiction for example? Well, if you recognise it as an addiction and it's harming you in any way, stop it. Stop it. And if this is you talking to somebody else, then as Bob endlessly points out, see what spontaneously comes. Because you may be talking with someone and energetically connect that, you know, they need compassion rather than the instructions. And in another case, there may be something else spontaneously coming up. Nisargadatta was addressed about his addiction.

And he says he left the body to carry out its thing until its destiny is exhausted. He didn't give a shit. And other people with the addictions, they would. I have a dear friend who is, his girlfriend is coming from overseas and he is trying to quit smoking. I gave him a film that I have to watch five times. That's what spontaneously came up. So just don't contrive life. See how it flows. And I have another one from Chris. Good morning, everyone. Been listening for a little while, but first time commenting here. There have been experiences here that have caused a shift in perspective towards this direct awareness.

And this understanding can come closer to the forefront when I have ample time to sit in solitude and inquire. But I still find myself reverting to old patterns and having a sense of forgetting when I exit that solitude and interact in the world. Do you have any advice on what's causing this re-misidentification? Or is it just something not to worry about that may erode in time? Well, there's a... Biblical. Well said. Biblical statement, be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. So to be rid of it, keep reminding yourself. That you're not what you believe you ought to be. See what comes up then.

Remind it. Beautiful. And there is also Primali answering to Sue about karma. Karma is trying to explain the unexplainable. And Amarnath saying the greatest addiction is compulsive thinking. And Tanya says, I was asking about exercise addiction because it seems I have this sort of addiction, embarrassed to admit that. I wish I had that addiction. Julia wishes to have it. And British Julia says, what a great addiction. There you go, Julia's in tune. Better than being addicted to thought. And Amarnath says, do everything without doership or thinking moderately, conditioning and deconditioning our notions. And I think Peter, did you want to say something? Yeah, thanks. I think Amarnath has got it by the throat there.

In the sense that in as much that every thought of separation here is an addiction to obfuscating that which is, that you are. In fact, everyone is addicted. We're all here in this so-called continuum of time and space. We're addicted to perpetuating it. You know, you could say you're addicted to the mind. You're addicted to death. But we won't go into that just at the moment. And we could also say that the bodies and minds are addicted, but what we are in essence is beyond the body and the mind. Within me, the stillness, the space, the awareness, the addicted body appears. So Tania, if you look at this body having the addiction or having the compulsion or anything as something that happens within you, the space-like awareness, you may find it marvelous.

Instead of judging it, because when you call it addiction, there is a subtle judgment about it. So instead of judging that as something wrong, you could be utterly curious about that. And you can actually, as both Julia's pointed out, fully enjoy it as something that is neither good nor bad. It's just the appearance in the space that you are. Again, pointing out, put the label on it. That changes the whole thing. Absolutely. What is it without the label, without the word? Good point. Yeah, don't label it and just see what's the energy, how it moves. I think we have Amarnath saying, applying to Tania, do everything without doership or thinking moderately.

Conditioning and deconditioning are notions. And Tania says, not when your body is suffering because of the addiction. Yeah, in that case, if there is a strong pain or suffering. Yeah, recognize what causes the pain. When it becomes, see, thought, feeling and emotion. First of all, there's the subtle thought. Then will come the sensation or the feeling. And then it'll get into the body, into the physical, into the emotion, when it becomes anger or something like that. The emotion, when it's got to that stage and upsetting the body, you know all about it then. Mm-hmm. And? Which causes the blood pressure to rise and changes in the body that come about, you know?

But thought, before it's attached to, what is it? It's gone. It's just an energy. Yeah. And sitting with the urge, let's say it is a compulsive exercise, and it's not an exercise which keep your body fit, but it's the exercise that creates pain. So sitting with the urge, without labeling the urge, rather than acting out on that urge. Let's say even being like a cigarette addict, wanting a cigarette, and just pausing without running to act out, and just being able to be curious about the energy. Because sometimes the urge is so strong that acting out happens, and there is no one who does it. But if there is a genuine interest, there is a question arising how to address it, then perhaps that idea might be inspiring.

To actually sit with the urge, with the subtle thought, before it comes into the emotion. And when it does come into the emotion, you feel that energy running, you may still sit with that energy without transferring it to the action of whatever exercise. There are people having addictions to harming themselves, or binging eating, or binging walking, or porn. They might be difficult, of course. So being able to, just what Bob is saying, sit with the energy, be curious about it, rather than follow it if there is a possibility. Because there will be situations in life where that possibility, that opening to be curious and sit with it, simply not going to show up.

And you can't cause it because you're not there to cause it. You're not the doer. But yeah, because the question is there. That's a way. That's a way of looking at it. I've observed that just being present, as you're saying, with whatever is showing up, causes it to just sort of dispel. So if you watch the thoughts arising, or whatever, just keep... I don't know, it's almost like turning a light on in a dark room. Darkness just has a hard time staying with that. And the thinking as I observe it, as it's being observed, I'm not judging it. Again, if I'm judging it, it's sort of a way, I think, of keeping it present because you're resisting it.

And that conflict is in a way, you know, keeping it here. But if I'm just watching it, I really love this metaphor of candle smoke. If you light a candle, and then you just blow it out. You'll see... Well, actually, before you blew it out, there was no smoke, seemingly, anyway. But you blow it out. And then you'll watch smoke. You can see it. And then it just sort of goes back into the nothingness really fast. And your thoughts are the same way. And you could just sit and watch it. And when you do that, like when that happens, whatever followed up with, or at least seemed to come from that thinking, just also goes away with it.

It's really nice, just throwing that in. In the infinite void, all shapes and forms have appeared in this world and in all others. Is that a dualistic model for the, if you'll excuse a really bad pun, of the absolute state of being, where everything from nothing appears? No, appearing. Equate, like... Could you equate a model a comparison, if you will, of dualism, you know, that our world has seemingly come from nothing, the big bang, in inverted commas, from an infinitely tiny point in space even before time. And from that, our worlds have come into being. Everything in this world, in all other worlds, all shapes and forms, have come into being from nothing.

And this is in our scientific way, understanding of the world. But then, can you equate that as a sort of like a model for what you're pointing us towards? So, Bob... Can you clarify? You mean the explosion of the dream as a metaphor? Exactly, exactly. As a metaphor of what? Of the absolute. Of the absolute. What... Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, you could say, I mean... You could say there is... I mean, it's a bad pun. Can I just say something quickly? OK, Bob, repeat the one. OK. Sorry. Yeah, I just wanted to say that you are a black hole. And all your thoughts... You're a black hole.

Yes. And all... Thank you. And everyone else. You're not an asshole. A black hole. Yeah, I am. I am. But it is an opening of the third eye. Yeah, you know, human consciousness, this is a black hole, isn't it, really? Because it's a black hole being a universal body, if you like, that sucks everything into it. All right? And this is what's happening, in a sense. You could say that in your awakening, in your... having heard something different to the flow of normal, you know, problem-solving with the mind, all of it, you realize that you are what is that force which is attracting, you know, every possible solution out there.

You are the addiction to continual speculation without finding the truth. This is what we are, in a sense, we're black holes. Sucking all this mind material in, time and space gets warped on the edge of it, and all of a sudden, everything gets compressed into a singularity where there's no absolute, there's no solutions, you know. All this material gets compressed into absolute singularity and then explodes as a supernova, or it explodes as a... light coming out everywhere. Isn't that... How's that for a model? Well, yes. Isn't that what our so-called physical universe... Isn't that sort of pointing, you know, isn't that a... or is it an apt pointer towards the absolute truth of what the Masters are teaching us?

Yes. It's a fusion of the light intelligence that's the pattern, shape and form in all the diversity. That pure, pure intelligence of that, you know, absolute all. All this comes from nothing. All this comes from nothing. Yes. Both in this so-called world, physical world, and... Yes, it all comes from nothing. It all is nothing, you know, it's all appearance. It's like potentiality for movement becomes a movement, and movement becomes vibration, and different frequency of vibration becomes different form and shape. Yes. And you see how the movement of consciousness, of attention, creates the world as you know it. You focus into the microscope and suddenly you start discovering the world, the thoughts come, name it, claim it, do a story, make story about it.

That very movement is the creating force of the whole universe, and that movement exists in the stillness as a potentiality. So is it there a model that... Well, if you attracted to models... Yeah, I mean, if you find... See how that attraction to building a picture or building a map takes away the attention from the territory, how narrative takes away the attention from direct experiencing of that mystery, because, yes, you could say there is more or less accurate model, but it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. So it's more or less accurate model or map. But how about droop the map and just breathe it in, that incredible mystery of something coming there even though it would be most logical or most ergonomic if there was no movement whatsoever, there was no coming and going, death and life and all that duality, but it is there and wow!

What keeps coming up is just from the book I Am That. And that is, And that is that, you know, there's noumenon, there's phenomenon. Noumenon in its unicity can't know itself. And so that's why there's phenomenon. So that's it, really. It just points right here. Yeah. In the appearance, but it's only appearance. Quite valid. Like the magician's tricks are quite valid in the appearance, but when you look into them, they're only appearing to be so. And we have also a couple of comments here. Tanya says, thank you to Julia, Bob, Kat, and Peter. And she also says that what Julia was saying, it was very helpful.

And Amarna says, who I am is the last addiction to go for seekers. And a lot of laughing there. And Vivek says, addiction does not touch you. Leave it. Addiction. Or go with it. Does not change. Touch me. Amarna says, words and thoughts are absence in the presence. Learned ignorance. Dream and waking states are also absence in presence. Present only when we sleep to our real self and start imagining. Whatever we describe as only relative, absolute cannot be described. That Amarna says. And did you want to say something, Maureen? Hi. I keep practicing when you say the false doesn't stand up to investigation. Exactly. So, because I've got to keep it really simple for me, you know.

So, when I have a thought, and if I investigate, as you pointed to me, investigate who is there. Yeah. So, I imagine as though, yeah. Is there a body there? Is there a person there? Who's there? And, you know, if I investigate my brain, my mind, my presence, well, there's no one there. So, the minute I have that so-called experience of identifying there's no one there, automatically a lightness of being arises. And the minute I touch on that, I feel freer and lighter and happier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the car can you just check on that thought who is there have you can you tell me who's there and she said no one so i so i said so if no one's there what are you feeling and she said well nothing she started laughing so so it almost made all the concepts and identifying the hard work which is what i do with the ego is struggle and survive and work it out just from that simple pointer that you gave me if i just to concentrate on that or work with that or identify with that is this correct then then you just feel more lighter and freer and happy because the thoughts are just a habit and i've got to keep just observing the habits that arise and then investigate them are they there and usually they're just you know habits from my past that arise that not even particularly good not even particularly making me feel happy so thank you for that simple pointer bobby um looks at it and sees it recognizes the truth of it like the saying about the fellas out on the lake in a rowboat nice calm day beautiful something lying flat out on on the boat you know and drifting along and all of a sudden crash something bumps into him and he jumps up full of rides ill tell us that i look that's an empty boat what's he gonna do just the same as you say we didn't know it's a brilliant metaphor yeah then we have a comment from john who is checking the checker I'm not what we whatever we describe is only relative oh yeah we've been there and British Julia says sometimes when you check on that thought but it doesn't work the heavy energy needs to be witnessed and allowed perhaps yeah beautiful absolutely just being empty curiosity no I just wanted to throw that in there you know and it is my favorite one of my favorite quotes is what you brought up is the you know that well the false cannot stand up to investigation yeah and this and and I think the investigation has to be genuine it's just something I've got to throw in there you know it's got to be like not just a word that yeah who cares you know that's like it has to be really done like you really have to look you know and at the same time a loving of what is or something there was something that like there was a time once when I was really sad about the loss of something I loved a story ending you know my cat died and this lovely cat here okay says to me can you be grateful for your sadness because without it you wouldn't know joy damn it I couldn't hold on to that grief for long after that you know it was just I mean being I think a gentle presence of loving a gratitude is sweetness or whatever towards that anger or sadness or whatever is appearing can only help and at the same time there's just nothing more like cutting to the chase of things or you know blowing all even that smoke out of the water you know one of my favorite stories also is this story again it's good because it's very fun sometimes was when I had a car accident and I was beating the crap out of myself for because it was my fault and I manifested it too because I was thinking three days before that well wouldn't it suck to have an accident and then boom this accident happens and I'm like I was really upset about it and I was trying my best to welcome the feelings and the thoughts and be present with it and all that and then I get on the phone with this guy sailor bob who I had recently met and I said you know I thought of your quote you know um what's wrong with now if you don't think about it and I said the problem is Bob and I could I like that I can sailor Bob because I could say dirty words like fuck you know but I said I can't fucking stop thinking about it and he says so who's thinking about it and then boom you know just like that and there was no ability to like even though for hours of I don't know beating myself up it just just didn't work yeah thank you both thank you all thank you I have another one here from uh I'll just I'll just go in this way uh from Amarnath ego is not real thing to struggle it's just like a shadow or dreamer for an observer no observer no creation to whom is the habit says Otu that is a very good question and I would like to just throw in Julia what we were saying without the sadness you wouldn't know joy I I I remember also saying because that's a really big point that sadness can introduce and bring to our conscious experience it is your capacity to love you wouldn't have been sad if you didn't love them dearly so really every emotion if you look deeper it points to that brilliant capacity to love for which the allegedly at least that's the story I like the whole manifestation came into existence and Amarnath also says making story describing labeling is favorite addiction of I keeping silent meditation are addictions for seekers natural state nothing exists even this word and what Maureen was also saying and that was so beautiful he said oh my gosh every word you create a conscious habit of focusing attention on that nothingness instead of practicing you create a conscious habit of focusing attention on that nothingness instead of practicing the story you say you know when you focus on the thoughts then there is more story coming up more aspects and the attraction of the mind of the narrative was when you look and you find nothing you create a conscious habit you don't do it but that's what happens when you repeatedly end in that vastness of presence of aliveness of silence but which is not empty but is serene and loving and joyous that's That's the beauty of investigation, of repeated investigation, to just break the habit of running into a story constantly and bringing into a habit of experiencing this moment right now as it is, without the concepts, without descriptions and meaning making.

Do you want to add something, Peter? I think we need to make the distinction between directly knowing something or directly experiencing something, as opposed to thinking or conceptualizing something. Do you know the difference between those two things, David? No comment. No comment at all. Give us examples, Peter. Yeah, I'm just... Okay. Just sitting here and being part of all this with everyone and the questions that come up about addictions. You mentioned addiction to a me. Yeah. And then Maureen said your practice was like an investigation. And mine is like watch the mind and see how it operates. But that takes over. Like it might be a conscious pattern at the start, like a new form of addiction, but then it sort of enters the system in a way and does its own thing.

And it's like it's no different to like what Nisargadatta says about following the I am-ness. Or really it's actually the same, one and the same thing. So back to what you're saying. So there's questions about the cosmos and creation and all these different topics that were coming up. It was like everything was totally being resolved as they were happening. And it was just so simply and beautifully resolved because... Because there's an observation of watching everything as it's unfolding. And like trying to work out how the universe is and isn't and explodes and does. It's like, oh, those questions, it's the mind and that's the way it's operating.

And those questions don't actually arise and yet they're all resolved. Like I don't need to know the intricate details of how the universe is made or unmade and explodes. Not necessarily. Not that I'm finding any fault with anything. But like everything was completely at peace. And is. And the peace is the love that enables this whole thing to appear in this manner. And everything, addictions and non-addictions, procedures, ways of practicing. Everything's just completely resolved in that very direct experience that you were just bringing up about just that presence. And like there's just pure awareness. And the openness of watching the whole show unfold. And nothing needs to be actually fixed or changed or improved.

And it's a beautiful thing. And like I'm just grateful to be here and sharing that with everyone. Thank you. Thank you, Dan. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. You have a very familiar kind of practice of direct experience. I can see that. That's lovely. That's very good. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. One second. Sorry. Choking. I'm just, I think that I'm starting to realize that if I try and work everything out with my five senses, which are limited, you know, my nose, my mouth, it's so limited. And there's something far more massive that is not able to. I'm not able to be understood by my five senses. Because I go right into the finest detail of everything.

It can't, for me, it can't work that way anymore. Because I recognize that my five senses are very limited. And if I don't understand, then it doesn't exist. But now I'm recognizing the masses, the massiveness of the intelligence or the love. Yes. Yes. And it can't be understood. I agree. It just is. So rather than putting it into some capacity or something, then so long as I move the false from myself, keep going towards, say, cool. When I say the light, could be just the lighter part of me rather than the drama and the old conditioning, the pain, you know, one carries forever. You know, just try and be a bit more honest to myself.

That massiveness seems to, I can't even say how, but it seems to, like Bob said to me once, it will support you. I didn't get it when you told me. But as I keep observing, just thoughts gently, investigating, when I feel that lightness of the being, without comprehension, the massiveness is there to support me. Somehow. Somehow. I think Dean was expressing that wonderfully well, too. Thank you, Ed. And I, look, you know, I agree, you know, with what you're saying. But all I was putting forward was a question out there. It's just, isn't there a parallel between the creation of our, in dualistically speaking, the creation of our universe, the creation of our universe, and the creation of the universe in general.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And his question is, is there a parallel between the creation of our universe and, also, you know, the absolute truth of, of what Bob and the other masters and teachers are telling us. Isn't there a parallel? It's sort of, like, a visual parallel, if you will. Really, david. Who gives a shit. Well we don't have to. Does it, and, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, yeah. I don't mean to cast illusion.

I think you're wonderful. Lovely guy. And you've got this spectacular intellect. I suppose that's cabaret. I suppose that's, I think that's what I follow. And yet I understand how you think. But. But at the end of the day, I really want to get back to this question. Have you actually sat in the quiet of your own mind and investigated what really is true? In your direct experience. As much as the mind is only capable of speculation, it never rests. It's like a rabid dog that's out there hungrily looking for something, something, anything. Anything to make a story about and keep. And what it does is, its job in fact is to obfuscate.

That's a nice word, isn't it? And start chewing on it. But never rest. Never really getting to the marrow. Yeah. So that's the job of the... This is, I think, a useful way to look at it. The job of the mind is to keep you confused. Because once you arrive at something in certainty, at the simplicity of your direct experience, the mind loses its capability or loses its importance. Yeah. It's like, okay, let's... The direct experience for me is simply knowing that I am life. All else is open to speculation. But I know that I am life directly. And that doesn't change. Or I am that that is here now.

That's the key. That's the key now, isn't it? Yeah. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility, isn't it? There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. There's no possibility. Isn't it self-evident? There's self-evident truth, huh? Do you get that, Dave? Without thinking about it too much? I'm not negating any of that, Peter. I'm just putting a parallel that might be useful to some. I mean... You know... I want to move on from that idea into really... And that... ...getting you to have the direct experience. Oh, yes. I'm not negating... Yes, I'm not negating...

Everything else will be sublimated and taken care of within that framework. I was just putting a question out there. If the question doesn't grab anyone, that's absolutely fine. I'm fine with that. Yeah. That's a good question. I just couldn't help but wonder at the amazing thing, the enormity of it. Back in the 16th century, a Zen monk said, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn. And here's Dean expressing it in the same way. Yes. Beautiful. It was beautiful. And we had also Sally saying, I love the story about Boats Bob. It rang like a bell. And I think there was someone thanking Dean for his expression too.

And Tanya, wow, Dean, thank you for sharing that. What you said resonated a lot here. Wonderful. Peter and Dean says, And Vivek says, And British Julia says, My mind lost its pre-verbial this week. It did not like the silence whatsoever. It did great job at sucking falsehoods. It brought me back in. It loves a story, needs to feel alive. The trick is to allow even that. But was is quite painful. And now Bill. All the stories, questions, ideas, concepts are simply like bear, pizzas, and trees. Beer, sorry, beer, pizzas, and trees. They are also... So, 10,000 things. What knows the 10,000 things? Have a look, investigate.

The impact of what is being said by Bob is staggering. The imagined body mind that is trying to understand is the very thing you have to be free from. Any attempt to understand is useless. Because that attempt to understand is the moment that takes you away. away from what is. Freedom is not for the body-mind but from the body-mind." Beautifully said. That's Auerbeel from Bermagui. Gorgeously said. That's beautiful. And Othul says, no mind, no universe, you are only here. And pre-verbial Julia, British Julia is corrected to proverbial. Yes, so yeah, that's beautiful. Did you want to add something, Sharin? No? All beautiful. It's all perfect.

Yeah, the freedom from the known, Bob said once. That was the title of Krishnamurti's book. Freedom from the known. The real freedom. The mind did its job, like Peter was pointing, there may be a job of seeking, you know, and it's a wonderful job. When you look at the survival mechanism, the mind that is seeking more comfort, more shelter, the mind that is seeking companionship, entertainment, that's beautiful. But you are not your mind. Leave it do, leave it be, let it roll, whatever it rolls. But realize that the mind happens within you, not you within the mind. Because it is a wonderful servant, as somebody said, but it's a horrible master.

So yeah, there's nothing wrong with the mind, there's nothing wrong with the collective fictions that we have and the entertainment source that we find, but realizing that it is not the whole of the reality. There is just so much more in that mystery of this moment now. That the mind is just one minute expression. And how wonderful it is when you actually, like British Julia says, the mind was taking for a trip. Well, the incredible trips the mind can take you for. And still, that's just a minute expression. trips the mind can take you for and still that's just a minute negligible part of the mystery and miraculousness of this being that what Maureen was saying that vastness supporting you being there in which the vastness and you they equal they one day they want what is the the receiver the the microphone the speaker that little machinery with the holes to to see hear taste touch and smell is just one way for that vastness to glimpse itself experience itself express itself but you are really never nothing less than that vastness experiencing and the mind is nothing but thought that's exactly right yes in which particular thought I it's just an imagination it's a fantastic wonderful super creative capacity there's just one of the 10,000 things as Bill reminded mind is Maya O'Toole says mind is an instrument of you but you are not its instrument beautiful Byron says no more noise and so little so much noise and so little silence yeah and silence gets never ever obscured but by noise and as Bob points no matter how much noise we would all produce right now there's always more silence in this room is just what are you tuned into are you tuned into the noise or are you when you drop to the heart that the silence will be what will be the most attractive frequency rather than the story of the mind the beautiful thing we are major part of the story of the wouldn't find out about that we would never be in a good and fresh and almost always be in perfect harmony with our we are but the same as Osmar keep us every single night in this dim lights up disaster actually apply to on сам how apart from fine lines now depending on the ability to adapt since there would be why not just do the art and carry on we'll find me if we were not capable of whole mind by a decision instead just doing a free of the direct experience of this moment now, the being, the aliveness, the loving to be.

And freedom is not from ego, not for ego, but from the ego, or to reiterate what Bill mentioned, yes, absolutely. Well, then ego is a story too. It's all story or dreaming, and that I find just also incredibly liberating, the ability or knowing, or I don't know how to put this in words, but if you think about, for a moment I'm going into thought, of course, but you can win an Olympic sport by a thousandth of a second, so that puts the past a thousandth of a second from now, ago, and the future a thousandth of a second into the future. And so by the time I say, well, now it's over.

So this nanosecond or microsecond, how much can you say about it? So then if you think about it for a moment, any thought that you could have is about what you think was, which is a story that can change depending on your perspective and all that, or could be, same thing. And it's all a big story, and you can see this is a story, telling is dreaming. It's not what is. It's dreaming, like the night dream. Same thing, except there's a sense of continuity with this dreaming. And I don't usually mourn my night dreams, the end of them, although I had a really nice one this morning, I was really liking it, and I'm like, I wanted to hold onto it.

You know, it was fun. I was giving away money in my dream. Joyously. Not, you know, it was fun. It was fun. It was good. I wanted to keep it, but it's still dreaming. Yeah, okay. She actually does it. She does. I wanted to go back into the night dreams, Mr. Smith. Yeah, but this dreaming, to see that this is all just dreaming, it's really, it's not real, like wow, wow. I'm getting upset over, like, Santa Claus, you know, this idea, the boogie monster that I, wow, yeah. That's not what it is. And any upset that can come about is about what isn't that, that, that.

That what isn't happening now. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm grateful. I love you all, like, and you especially. Yeah. Thank you. We have a couple of comments from people who are with us, and that is, Tanya says, thank you so much for addressing my question so beautifully. Much less clouds floating in the sky and a natural relaxation is happening. Amarna's saying, knowing mind and its making universe never existed are like dream or shadow. And Rohan, Bob has pointed out before that all our words were acquired. They are not integral to who we are. If we had no words, then there would be no stories. Beautiful. Beautiful he said.

Yes. Thank you, Rohan. And Otto says, present, and he shows the little picture of a gift. Present is not the result of the past, but past and future are the result of the present, now. And that reminds me, and the story of Bob and the boat that Sally resonated with, we have a little community group, the Facebook group, where I put some little snippets of Bob's teachings on it, with a little, quite a plenty of very cute pictures of him with the quotes. So anyone who has Facebook and wants to Google, how is the group name? Sailor Bob Adamson pointing and sharing? Or Sailor Bob's pointing and sharing?

That's not my group, that's somebody else. But I can just... Anyone is welcome to share and comment on Bob's points, pointers, and express the gratitude or whatever comes up. And another thing, just one quick announcement. Our dear friend Terry Stevens invited Bob to have a satsang in which they will be just both expressing that one message, two hearts he calls it, in a couple of weeks. The information will be on his website, terrystevens.com. I think there will be... I think Terry takes a little payments for the meetings, but the payment will be split, so Bob will be supported from the income. So anyone is welcome to check.

We will be reminding about it. And Julia has the announcement too. Just a reminder for those of us who are listening, would like to take part in this conversation and interact like we do here. It's harder to do it on Facebook. Through the notes. But it's lovely to do the Zoom calls with Bob. So on Monday morning Australian time, Sunday in the West, if you're like the Northwest, I suppose, depending on your United States, Europe or whatever. On Monday mornings, 9.30 a.m. It's also on Bob's website. You can join him tomorrow. Okay, on Zoom. And it's the same thing except you get to listen and then do it.

Okay. And listen and then jump in and talk. So it's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. None of it belongs to Bob. I'm only the mouthpiece, what you know. Yes. It is yours. It is inherently who you are, what you are. It's just a recognition of inevitable. Because the moment the body goes, there is nowhere else, nothing else. No obstruction, no clouds. But it can happen now. Why not now? The body going now. No, no, no. The recognition. Thank you. Your body is adored. We want to keep it. So thank you, everyone. I didn't believe you'd think like that, Kat. Sweet, right? You still don't believe it, would you?

Amarna says, words and thoughts are there, but no border or board lost their meaning. Yes. And thank you all. And thank you all. Oh, yeah. All the thank you messages coming up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And, yes, we hope the bodies will hang out even though there is no time, they will hang out forever, especially yours. Thank you all. Thank you. Beautiful. Beautiful to see you and hear. Yes. Greenwood. The more, the more that the people are going to express it, the more that people are going to hear it.

And congratulations to you, Kat. When expressing it, you hear actually how you hear yourself. You really have direct feedback of what has been absorbed by your heart, because the mind is only translating. You open your mouth and you don't know what comes out of them and you hear it and, oh! Thank you.