It is real in essence, not in the appearance. Sailor Bob on nonduality. 12 Feb 2022

Okay. Well we started off the same old way. Can't teach you anything here. Can't tell you anything. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself. Because when you realize what we talk about, you realize there's nobody that can teach you anything and nobody that can tell you anything. Because what we base it on is what the ancient texts tell us, like in Advaita they say it's non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa. Existence, consciousness, bliss. Name and form. And they say the name and form is Maya. It's illusion. The existence, anybody who is not existing right now.

Anyone who is not conscious or unaware. And then you realize you're not unaware, you're not unconscious. Anyone who's not happy to be. Well nobody would want to be dead right now at this moment. Recognize you already are all of those things. You are the existence, you are the consciousness, you are the loving to be. So what do we need to search for? If that is already the case. Another way I put it is I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm not speaking to that body, mind, entity that you believe yourself to be. I'm speaking to that I am, that I am.

That I am is the sense of presence. How would anyone of you describe yourself? If I ask who you are, you'll say I am so and so. That I am the sense of presence, the knowing that you are. Just to this, nothing else. Because there is nothing else other than that. It's one without a second, non dual. But we've taken on this idea of separation, this person, this individual. And recognize that we've got labels or names on everything. And how many words were you born with? If you believe you are this name or label. Well, you realize you weren't born with any words. That's why you can't remember your birth.

You can't remember your birth because you had no words. The first couple of years of your life, you were looked after by your parents and you didn't learn any words until the capacity of reasoning developed in you. Somewhere along the lines, round about two or something like that. And with that capacity of reasoning, listening to your parents, you learned words. When they told you little Billy or little Jane or little Joey or whatever your name was. And we added these words on. And took, taken on the idea we are this person. Now where does that word person come from? Well, it comes from the ancient Latin, I think it was.

Persona. The mask. So that's what it meant then. We got this conceptual image. This mask. Of concepts. And isn't that so? And you say, I am Bob the Australian. I'm a good fella. I'm this, that and the other. They're all concepts we've added onto this I am. This sense of presence. Now the Buddhists are non-conceptual. Awareness. They call it, and they give it in one sentence here. They say the great perfection. They call it the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? You realise you can't add anything to the perfect. It wouldn't be perfect. What can you take away from it? You can't take anything away from it.

It wouldn't be perfect. They give it in one sentence. And they say the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Now you're not unaware right now. So you must be aware. But there are all sorts of thoughts, ideas, concepts and images going on in that thing we call the mind. Which we believe to be so. So we've got this conceptual image. Which is not the truth. And look at the word. You realise that every word you've spoken. Or ever liked to speak. Has been picked up along the way. And the word's not the real. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word?

Can you drown in the word water? You can't. The word fire. Can you burn yourself? Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with it? You can't. So the word's not the thing. Just labels. We put on this thing. This word I or me. What are you relating it to? You're relating it to this individual. This person. And see. So we've moved away from what the ancients tell us. There's only one essence. If they call it God. They tell you. There is only one God. But yet every tradition's got a different label and a different name for God. So there seems to be many.

God. And God is another word. We've learnt. Tells you in the Bible. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. All things were made by him. By the word. And there was nothing made that was made without the word. Isn't that so? Look out there in the manifestation. We've got words or labels for everything. But the great mantra is I am that. And everything is that. And you know that. Because innately you already know that. Because you say that's the chair I'm sitting in. That is the room I'm in. That's the space that's in the room. That's the tree.

That's the flower. That's you. That's me. Everything is already that one essence that we point to. The pure intelligence energy or the God. Whatever you like to label. You like to put on. It's already that. And that's it. But we discriminate it with the word. And the word is not the thing. Now in learning words, have a look and see how words function. And words, what are words? Words are sound. What's sound? Sound is a vibration. What's a vibration? A movement of energy. So all these words we've learned are anything but vibrating patterns of energy. And the words are not the real. So now we've got all these patterns, shapes and forms which are appearing, which we put labels on and discriminate them with the word.

Without the word, what is it? Everything is that. It's all that one essence. When it's not discriminated by the word, it's all the one essence that's patterning, shaping, form in the manifestation, all the one experience, experiences, has everything. But see what we've done when we've learned words. And we've taken ourselves to be this persona, this conceptual image, this mask. We've separated ourselves from the absolute. Still seeing that every pattern, shape and form in this manifestation is all that one essence. energy, the one life that's expressing us everything. Now we've got the idea there's you and me, there's trees, flowers, stars, satellites. All these things are separate, we believe, and they are that life itself.

But the life is only one life, and you are the life, not the body or the mind which is expressing, patterning, shaping, forming as that life. You are the life itself, the pure intelligence energy. We take it on this idea of personal life, see what that causes, because we believe we are this life. We are this separate entity, this individual, and with that sense of separation and individuality comes insecurity and vulnerability. Now as the person I feel separate, and with that sense of separation I don't know what's going on in these other things and the things around me, so I'm very vulnerable towards it. And in that vulnerability and insecurity, I'm very vulnerable towards it.

And in that sense of separation and insecurity, what comes up? All the psychological suffering comes up, the fear, the anger, the depression, the guilt, the unhappiness, the shame, the remorse, that all applies to this me. Oh, I don't know what that is, so I'm fearful of it, or I don't like it, it's not good enough, and that makes me unhappy or insecure. So, I'm very vulnerable. I'm very insecure. I'm very insecure. I'm very insecure. When we take on the idea that we are this separate entity, this individual, now we're insecure and vulnerable, and we're living this life from the idea of separation. With that sense of separation, with all the fear, all the psychological suffering that comes about, life's not very good, is it?

When we're in this fear, anger, depression, guilt. When we're in this fear, anger, depression, guilt. When we're in this fear, anger, depression, guilt. When we're in this fear, anger, depression, guilt. So, you realise that me, what we call me or I, is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And the effects are the anger, the frustration, the fear, the guilt, the shame, the remorse. They're the effects of believing in the cause, me. Now, what's that cause and effect? Isn't it what so-called karma is? Cause and effect. Cause and effect. And me is the cause. And if I ask myself the simple question, can there be an effect without relating to a cause?

Or can there be? If it's not related to the cause, what is it? It's just as it is. No one to relate to. Can it be separate? Can it be fearful? Can it be anxious? Not at all. When we're related to the cause, me. When we're related to the cause, me. We're in trouble. And when you look into this me or I investigated and see this me, I, or the sense of suffering, is a fiction that doesn't really exist. So we see we can be out of this psychological suffering. Need to look at that and see for yourself. Because nobody's going to do it for you.

We think if we go to this or go to that or go to some other thing, it's going to be a fiction. We'll go to some other thing and listen to it and practice it and put it into practice and trial it. We will become realized or we will become free. We'll become this or that. Liberated. But what are you? Aren't you being? You're being right now. Can you negate that beingness? And becoming. Being. Being. Being can never be becoming. Because becoming implies a future time. But this being is right in this immediacy. Right here and now, you are being. Now have a look at that.

You call yourself a human being. And you call God, if you believe in a God, the Supreme Being. What happens if you take away the Supreme and take away the label human? Try and separate yourself without putting those labels on. And realize that you can't negate your beingness. Try and say, I am not. You can say it as much as you like, but in the very saying of it, you know that there's something there that's enabling you to say it. And the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the functioning, the eye feeling. The I-ing on it is happening right now and it's just a pure spontaneous natural functioning.

But we put the label I on me on it and we've got the idea that there's a separate entity, this individual, this person that's seeing, that's hearing, that's tasting, touching, smelling, it's fearful, it's anxious. It can only happen to the believed in separate entity when you've separated yourself. Now we seem to be all separate patterns, shapes and forms in this room but what do they tell us in this ancient text, the scriptures? That there's one without a second, it's not two. It is absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing at all. What can you take away from it? Not the slightest thing. If you could take anything away from it or add anything to it, it wouldn't be absolute.

And as I say, the Buddhists call it the great perfection. Perfection is just the same as the absolute. What can you add to it? Nothing. What can you take away? And they give it in one sentence. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. You're not unaware right now, so each and every one of you must be aware. But what concepts are you holding? What are you losing sight of it with the concepts or the word? Or the belief? Drop the concepts and ask yourself what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Might dawn on you, if you just pause the thought for a moment or move away from the thought, let the thought pass you by, you'll know that you can't say there's anything right or wrong without the thought.

If it's not right or wrong, what is it? It's just as it is. And that's what they tell you. As it is and what's what is. What is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, just as it is right now. And then without labelling it with the concepts, recognise that the concept is time, investigate time and ask yourself is there a past if I don't think about it? You look at that and you say you can't say there is a past without a thought. And try and live in the past. See if you can go back and live in the past, you realise you can't live in the past.

You can recall it, but you can't tell me what you thought of a minute ago now unless you recall it. It's already gone. And you can't go back and live in the past but you can recall it. And a lot of it you won't recall and can't recall. So that which you can't recall has gone forever unless you can recall it. So there's no such thing as the past. The soul of the past is the soul of the future. And that's what Shakespeare told you 400 or 500 years ago when he says there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And that's so.

And the Sargadatta will tell you, nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Now have a look at that word imagination. Break it down to imagine or image in. Image in is another way of imagining. And realise that's all you're doing. We're constantly creating mental images. Every thought or concept is a mental image. We're taking these mental images, believing them to be real, and so this belief in life of things and all the rest that's going on, is nothing but your own imagination. And that's what troubles you. That's what brings about the fear, the anxiety, the stress, all the psychological suffering. Now it's not very nice if you're living in fear, is it?

Or you're unhappy, or you're depressed. It's either thoughts, feelings and emotions that come up in your body, through that thought. The thought will come up, might be a very, very subtle thought, might be a loud thought or a noisy thought, but the thought will come up. And always, it'll all, I mean it, when it comes up with it, I've been saying for a little while, will come the sensation. The sensation is the feeling. What will be fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, unhappiness, is the sensation. And keep that there long enough, and that sensation will stir, stir in the body, and become emotion. Become anger, unhappiness, depression, guilt, fear, anxiety.

All these things which upset the body. When you're in that anger, it stirs up the blood pressure, stirs up the thought, all sorts of things. The nervous system and everything like that. And we live in these fears, these anxieties, these stress. The majority of our life is bound into this anxiety, stress. The feeling and emotion that comes up, and we don't realise it's all caused through thought. Thought, we didn't have. We didn't know any words until we learnt words. About two, two and a half. So thought is not your natural state. It's not your natural livingness. It's something that we've taken on board, and something we've come to believe is actual or the reality.

And suffer because of that belief. Have a look around and see what they say. This ancient text will tell you that belief is not the actual. Look up your dictionary definition of a belief. And you'll see it's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Now put your beliefs to that test. And they'll fall apart if they're not the fact. And you already know that. How many beliefs have you seen through already that you used to believe in and you don't believe in anymore? And that's why they say the false cannot stand up to investigation.

So if some of these beliefs we've got are investigated and found to be untrue, they'll fall apart under investigation. Like if I say to you, go down to the ocean, get me a bucket of blue sea water out of the sea, you'd say, don't be ridiculous. Because you know the sea's not blue. But has it stopped appearing to be blue? It hasn't. You turn away from it, you look at it, it'll be blue. And the blue sky is another one. You go outside on a clear day, there seems to be a blue canopy over the sky. But you go up 30,000 or 40,000 feet in a plane, is the blueness in the plane?

Or is it still outside, further away? Just the same as the sky, the blue sky, it's seemingly blue. Water in a mirage. Drive along the road and there seems to be water in a mirage. Child of a barren woman. The snake in a rope. There are many cases in the scriptures where they point out that the false is not the reality and isn't a statement in the scriptures. Know the truth. So don't muck around and stay with the false. Know the truth. And it's the truth that'll set you free. What are you free from? You're free from these beliefs. And in knowing the truth, you'll find life becomes much easier.

Because you're recognising things as they are. Recognising. That's another term you need to look at. They call it a cognising emptiness. And this you investigated. We think we are cognising the emptiness. But it's not that at all. It's the emptiness itself that has that capacity of cognising or knowing. So it's the emptiness that's knowing. And the Buddha told you that when he said emptiness is form. Pointing out that this cognising emptiness is forming all this manifestation. But as he turned it round the other way, emptiness is form. And he says the form can be nothing other than emptiness. What are you and I? We're forms.

What's the tree, the flower, the space, the room? All forms. And the form is nothing but the emptiness. But we've taken on the belief that these forms are real. And live in that belief. And suffer accordingly because of that belief. But get back to what they're saying. Non-duality is not two. It's one without a second. Not even one. When we say not two, we don't mean not two as a second, as time. But not two as not the other. There's only one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing, and expressing as everything. Now have a look at that. Where does it all begin? Where does it all start from?

Well, have a look out there. Well, what it's all taking place in is space. All in space. That's all the content of space. Now space is in this room. You and I are the content of space. The room itself is in space. Not separate from space. Look out there in a manifestation. Can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? If you're postulating something to be outside of space, what would it be in? To be anywhere, there's nothing other than space that it could be in. Because if it's got any shape or form on it, that'd have to be in space also.

Space is empty. It's got no centre to it. And it's got no circumference. So it hasn't got any shape or any form. It just is. It is no thing. All the shapes and forms we believe to be real are things, something. But it's all no thing. But we think it's nothing. When we say nothing, we think it's a vacuum, a void, zero. But space is no thing. No shape, no form, no setting point anywhere. But all this manifestation, which is all no thing, you and I are no thing. The tree's a thing, the flower's a thing, the room's a thing. All no thing appearing as something.

So settle back and realise, without the labels, without the concepts, you are no thing. And in that no thing, all this manifestation appears, pattern, shapes and forms, and expresses. So the everything is the no thing. And the no thing is the everything. There's no separation. Now take, you have a look in a mirror. And what do you see in the mirror? You look in the mirror, you'll see there's reflections in the mirror, or images. So when nothing, the Sagittarius tells you, nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Realise that's what we're doing. We're creating these conceptual or mental images and taking them to be real.

And we get lost in the images. Now test that out. Investigate it. You look in a mirror, what do you see in the mirror? Reflections or images in the mirror. Now you can't say they're not there. But go and look in the mirror. But go up to the mirror, try and pull a reflection or an image out of the mirror if you can. And you realise it's impossible. You can't. So though there's appearing to be reflections in the mirror, and you look in the pool of still water, you'll see, go outside in the moonlight night and you'll see the moon is appearing in the water.

But dive into the water and see if you can grab a moon out of it. You won't be able to because it only appears to be so. And you can't say it's in the water or out of the water. So it only appears to be so. The real moon is out there in the sky. Another pattern, shape and form that's appearing. So we investigate things along these lines and see that the force can't stand up to investigation. And we keep recognising you must be left with the truth. And in being left with the truth and realise that you, the only thing you can't negate is that sense of presence, that beingness, that I am-ness.

Not the thought. The thought is not it. But what does that thought represent? It represents that sense of presence. The fact that you are present right now. You are aware of being right now. And that presence awareness is happening right now near me to see. So you are already and only and ever that. So we look for it in this thing of the mind. We think we're going to become for it. And we've done if you're looking at this stuff which you are or you wouldn't be here if you weren't looking a little bit further you're looking for the answer in the mind. But you haven't found it.

Why haven't you found it? You're intelligent people. You've worked out so many other things in the mind. You've worked them out. But you've never found the answer to life. What dawned on you after all this time that maybe you're looking in the wrong direction. You've been looking in the mind for the answer. They tell you the answer's not in the mind. What way is there out of the mind? You've looked in the mind and continue to look in the mind and never find the answer. Maybe the answer is the answer's not there. Well then what would you do? You'd look, try and look and see what way is there out of the mind.

The only way out of the mind is full stop. Period. Don't go there. Don't entertain it. Do that if you can do it. You can't do it for very long because the thoughts will come up. But you can get a glimpse of it when you do it. Pause the thought. What can you say without a thought? Nothing. But you realise without that thought your heart hasn't stopped beating. Your fear and fingernails haven't stopped growing. You haven't stopped breathing. Food hasn't stopped digesting. The actual functioning is going on. The living is going on without prior to the thought. Like it was for the first two years of your life before you had any words.

You were living without the word. So what does that point out? It points out that you are prior to the thought. You're prior to the mind. You are before the mind. And this mind is something that's come upon us and it can be very useful. It can be very useful. But it vibrates in the opposite. Dualistically. And it's self-destructive when it vibrates the other way. Because it's the mind that tells you you're not good enough. The mind that tells you you're fearful. You're unhappy. You're depressed. And the worst one we put upon ourselves is after all I'm only human. When you take yourself to be this human being you put the boundaries and the labels and the stoppages on yourself.

So you have a look at it and you'll see that every way you've ever looked has always been in the mind. And ask yourself what way is there out of the mind? And you'll realise full stop period. Don't go there. Pause the thought. And you know that innately. We think we can't do without this mind. But innately you already know it. Because if you didn't know it you'd be frightened to go to sleep at the night. When you go to sleep at night what happens to the mind? It goes into abeyance. It stops. So you realise you can live without it. And realise that every direction you look in will always be in the mind.

So you've got to look for where I can look that's not in the mind. Full stop. Or pause the thought. Or just don't go there. And then realise that thoughts arise. Thoughts come in. What's your next thought going to be? See that for yourself. You don't know what your next thought is going to be. But then the thought will come up. And you'll say I think this thought. The believed in thinker is the thought I think. I think this thought. And the thought thinking becomes the subject. Thinking. And the thought I think becomes the object. I think this thought. Me. Bob thinks the thought. So the subject object is dualism.

But can there be a thinker the thought I think without thinking? The thinker is the thought I think. Can there be a thinker without thinking? You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. If there's no thinking there can't be the thought I think. So thinker is the subject and thought has become the object. So that's duality. That's the dualism. Subject object. So without the subject the thinker it can't be the thought object. So thinking is the actuality. Thinking happens and it's divided in the subject object. That goes the same with all the other functioning. The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the tasting, the touching, the smelling.

The I-N-G on it is something that's happening in the immediacy. What you are is the actual seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, the thinking. That's the actual spontaneous functioning. Now that's all we point to. I'm going to say that it's still the same as it's always and ever been it's only the absolute the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything and it's not time bound it's just all as it is and there's no boundaries or circumference to space. Space is immediate. It's right here. It's right now. It's still the one essence and you are that. And that, when the mind is freed up from all this conceptualised thinking then there's much more clarity there of course without being crowded out with thoughts.

There's less fear, there's less anxiety in that clarity. There's more a greater sense of well-being, being well, nothing wrong anymore. You can put it all those ways. And life has become much easier. So that's what we point to and ask you to look along those lines and some of you have recognised it already and can add to it. Tell us about it. And I might put it in a different way where somebody might resonate with it more than what they do with this. Or some of you might have questions or doubts and questioning and asking the question. Something might again resonate. And waking you up a little bit more to what you actually are.

And that's what we're doing too. What about it? So, we've got some questions there for a start from the listeners. So away you go. So, hi everyone. We have 25 people with us now and we have questions from Rohan. For you, Bob. Hi Bob. It seems much easier to full stop when the thought has not crystallised into a state of emotion and a seeming sensation in the body. Once it has reached that stage attention keeps being drawn to that sensation reinforcing the story that appears to cause it. It is just a matter of not going there and break the habit of fixation? Yes. Keep reminding yourself.

It's still the absolute. It's not the thought or the concept. And that's the great scriptural saying. It's the only way you can be transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind? The only way you can really renew your mind is full stop. Don't go there. Don't keep persisting in the old thoughts. And you'll find after a while you don't bother going with them. Other thoughts will come up and all sorts of fresh new thoughts. But you don't even persist in them. And you see what, when Shakespeare says there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so, that becomes a reality.

You'll see it's true. And the Sargent says nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. You'll see the reality of that answer. And you live with the reality rather than the conceptual images you've got of it. How are you going to answer this concept or think this thought or another? Thoughts are ever fresher than ever knew. But we fixate on them. When you fixate on the thought and keep it there, what have you done? Instead of being free to move on, it's stuck in the conceptualisation in the mind. And it takes over there. And it's like a solid rock. A solid rock and the sea, the sea washes around it and it stays there.

But if it's loose, free, be to move out, well, it's the same with the breath. Instead of fixating on this thought and keeping it there, let the thought ride out with the breath. And do that, if you let the thought ride out with the breath right now, when you come to the end of it and pause, you'll see there's a gap there before the next thought comes in. Because the next thought's gone out with the breath, where does your next thought come from? It's inspired. That's what they call inspiration or resurrection. And that's where the great inspirations come from. What's the name? What was his name?

The great physicist? He's looking for the name of a physicist. Yeah, he'll do. Einstein? Einstein, yeah. Einstein says he's pondering this problem for weeks. And one night he went to sleep, woke up next morning and there it was. He got the mind out of the road with the sleep. And it resolved itself. And as this manifestation is vibrating, patterning spontaneously, naturally, functionally, by itself, it's including all the content of it also. So you and I and everything else, that same patterning, shaping, forming of that life essence or intelligence energy, or whatever you like to call it, is nothing separate. One more comment. This is from Tanya.

As there is no time, there can't be any waiting. So waiting for something is imagination. Already there is no separate me. There never was a me. Just like you can't feel fear or anger. The so-called fear and anger never was there. Beautiful. Yeah, the fear or anger is just the label put on the vibrating energy. You want to define things and believe in them, you kind of bring them into existence. It's just like seeing a snake in a rope. Make your experience of a rope to be a snake. But there is a better way to live, much simpler, much easier, much less painful. Thank you, Tanya.

I call it, call it intelligence energy rather than use the term God. You can get confused with that term. But intelligence energy, I'm not talking about your intellects. I'm talking about the same intelligence that rolls the earth around the sun, causes the tides to come in and out, seasons to come and go. It's causing the planets and the stars to form, implode, explode, do whatever. It's breathing you, burning your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails. That's an intelligence, an innate intelligence that's doing all that. And the doing, the activity, is energy. Any movement or any activity is a movement of energy. That's where I get the term intelligence.

Intelligence energy. The activity of knowing. Anybody who is not knowing right now, what's doing that? Have a look and see. There is a comment from Amarnath. Beautiful, Tanya. No waiter at all. Everything is a dream. No waiting, no waiter. Everything's happening already. Okay, you... Hello, everyone. I have a question for Bob. What does the full stop if... So what performs or what... How to do the full stop. What does the full stop? The same life essence is formed as a thought in the first place. And you can't really full stop. Thoughts keep coming in. But if that concept or idea is there, it'll move you to move around it one way or see through it or even pause for a second or so.

But it's right now if you don't think about it. Yeah. When you see that, you can recognize that. So there's nothing that means there's a stop there. Yeah. There's no you that can... If there's no me to begin with, what is it that's deciding to look that there's no thoughts? It does it all. Yeah. And you are that life. That's what Christ told you. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about that sense of presence that's animating you and living you and breathing you. That's doing the lot, that sense of presence. So the life does everything, but there is still a sense of, okay, but who just asked the question?

Who wants to know what is doing if there is no me? What is doing the stop and no stop and what's beating the heart and what's growing the hair? Yeah. There is some sort of a questioning happening. So there is seemingly somebody there who wants to know, figure it out and achieve it or gain it or get it. When you really look what it is that asks the question, you will see that there is nobody there. It's just the question, only the question. There is no entity. You look back if there is any owner of the question or thinker of the question. See if there is anybody there.

The question itself. It's just the question itself, isn't it? So now the questions come up just like clouds come up on the sky. Is there any cloud there? Someone who is creating them. The whole universe creates them. The sun, evaporating water, the winds, all of it. The whole universe creates the cloud. Just like the whole universe, the whole environment creates the thought. You wouldn't have that question if Bob didn't say that statement, what's wrong with right now. It's actually a result of the circumstances in which this particular body found itself. There is no questioner as such who actually came up with it. It's just a naturally arising response.

So even though there is question, there is no questioner. Questioner is the question itself. Now, what's your next thought going to be? What is it? What's your next thought going to be? What's your next thought? I'm just going to try and answer your question. Try and answer the question. That's good. That's what I say, you see. So you think you think, but you don't know what your next thought's going to be. Thinking happens. I think they happen at the same time. Words are sounds, sounds are vibrations. And that's all a thought is, a vibrating movement of energy. It's still that same energy vibrating in the words or thoughts.

Intention to not be trapped by the mind. But there's nothing there that's not getting trapped by the mind. Is that... Like, because if you have that intention... Yeah. But we have to... Like, we're sort of stuck in this... Show me your mind. Can you show me a thing called mind? But you can't show me anything called mind. What is mind? It's sound. Concept. Word. Vibration. Energy. So it's still that same intelligence, energy that's breathing in your boot and your heart and doing the... That's forming as words or sounds. A patterning, shaping, forming as everything. Still life. But that's all that life... Take the life out of that body, where does it go?

The space where it came from. It'll form other... But won't be any particular pattern. You know, not like reincarnation or anything like that. But it'll form... Other patterns. Where life comes. Take the life out of that body, you've got a corpse. It's got eyes still, ears, heart, lungs, all the kidneys, all the organs are there. But without that life, it's a corpse. It's dead. Just like a computer, it's got all that information into it. But if the power's not turned on, what is it? Not a bit of good to it. But the thing is, we, the humans, form the things in the computer, build the things in the computer, that enable it to express through it the way it does.

And this intelligence energy forms these patterns, which form the computer, and make the thing. It's the one life that patterns, shapes and forms, expresses through everything. And you are the life. It's all there is. There's a couple of questions from people who are with us online. So there's one from Primali. She's asking me, Kat, once you said you were angry and you enjoyed it for days, can you please elaborate? Well, I might have enjoyed anger that lasted a minute for days only when I thought about it. I can't imagine enjoying anything for days because you have to hold it in your mind to actually enjoy it.

So I can enjoy breathing because I don't have to think about it. But if I was angry at some point, I think it might be that maybe I wasn't very clear in expressing myself, and you misunderstood, Primali. I can't imagine being able to be angry for days. I don't think anyone is able to be angry for days because then they have their meal and they forget about the anger. They go to the toilet, they forget about the anger. And the way anger shows up, we don't even label it, but there is just a... Sometimes the energy of explosion comes up. It doesn't last more than minutes and even seconds.

And to be able to enjoy it for days, it would have to come up all the time as a memory. You don't want to try and be angry for days, Primali, eh? You're not looking for the clarity. I think it's quite the opposite. She kind of didn't know how could I possibly do it, so I couldn't. That's the answer. And I don't think anyone could, even really a furious perfectionist who is constantly seemingly uneasy. I don't think they could hold anger for days and enjoy it. I think it could even be detrimental for the system because that causes a lot of adrenaline and cortisol and basically just doesn't feed the brain enough because it's a fight-flight response.

So sorry for disappointing you on this one. Sometimes we carry it around for years, pretty close to the surface. But even then, you have to have the thought to bring back the feeling. You can't be angry. I mean, you know, I could make myself remember what certain people tried to do to Bob a couple of years ago, but even now it doesn't really cause anything. When it gets to the... Emotion has gone past the sensation. The emotional stage will have stirred up the blood, the nerves and everything else in the body. Mm. And that's very interesting, that thought, feeling and emotion are one, and to actually watch that is incredible because you can really, really see it.

You can have a thought about someone and the feelings arise and then the emotion arises. That's a really good thing to watch, you know, because I was thinking about my daughter's father the other day and the tears came up and, you know, and it was just so fascinating to watch. Without that thought of him, that separation of me and him, Mm. and the fact he wasn't here anymore, that was the story, and then the emotion, you know. And I really understand what you're grappling with because understanding there's no choice maker, that was a big one here, because choices are made but there's no choice maker.

Now really think about that. You know, that's another really good one to watch because the thought of you, what is it? What is that thought of you? It's not a thought. It's a memory of you. It's a memory of an image of you. It's not who you really are. And so are you a memory or an image? And can a memory or an image make a choice? So there is a layer. Is there a benefit for the whole by consciousness awakening through individuals? You want to answer that? Is there a benefit for the whole? Well, the whole is always complete. But if the, you know, in some individual or the other the consciousness awakens, does the whole benefit in any way?

Well, we'll have a look at that. We'll have a look at life's going on, and the wars and things and fevers and God knows what. But in some instances it might help a little while. And it might have a little ripple effect like, you know, think of the consciousness waking up from you and giving a relief to thousands of people around the world. And those thousands of people are probably easier to live with for their families and communities. So there may be a ripple effect of that. But that's just a story anyway. Yeah, there's no me here, I suppose. Yes. It's just what's happening in the dream.

It's still life, that's all. It's still the one essence. And there is Amarnath asking, the time-space cause can't enter timeless, spaceless and causeless self. And Tanya says, yes, Amarnath, seeing the dream as the dream more and more now. Othul, just stay as being and bypass the mind. That is the full stop. Yeah, ignore it. Don't entertain it. Just as Bob was saying. Not that there is you to entertain it, but perhaps the inspiration coming from hearing this message may make it easier to just look past. Like see the sky, not the clouds. Amarnath says, only one, that's death of all individuals, including ourselves, do last right of all individuals.

To laughing out loud and icons. And now Othul says, but where are the individuals? That's a good point. Yeah, individuals, consciousness waking up. Individuals are believed into existence. Just question the beliefs. Othul, question the questionnaire and both will disappear into a thin air. Absolutely, yes. And Amarnath, to whom are individuals, it's private world dream of individuals do not exist, can't imagine, can't dream, layer, enter real layer at, there's no punctuation, so I don't know how to, enter real layer at all, laughing out loud. And all past lives become an instant like dream, including present and future too, Papaji, that's Amarnath. And Trimali says, that was, about somebody mistreating Bob.

Oh yeah, yeah, I did mention that, even if I think now about the two years ago when, it wasn't mistreating, it was the attempt to completely incapacitate him and put him down. It was actually a life threat and a lot of real ones. Still now, I would really have to have thought, and even if I would manage to get myself into a place where the energy would rush through the body, I have no interest in sustaining that thought. So, being angry for days is, I stay onto it, it's impossible. You eat the meal and that's where the anger goes, you can't think about it all the time.

Sometimes the staff need attending, and you put attention into attending staff, like court cases and stuff, but that's action, that's not necessarily holding into the anger, that's just action required. So, then I have a good question from Michelle, she says, have you not had PMS? That's a beautiful question, yes, women have PMS, may or may not have PMS. But it is, again, if you label the energy moving through the body, which causes the biological function cleansing or whatever, if you label it as irritability or anger, and then you look for justification for that energy, you look for the story which will make it real, yes, then you can call it a PMS and you can call it that someone did you wrong.

But if you know the mechanism, and you see just like Jane was describing, you see what's happening energetically, you see what's happening conceptually, and you are just witnessing space to whatever the body does, then it isn't really being angry for days. At least I've never even 20 years ago experienced the PMS to a state of being angry for days. It's incomprehensible, but it is a good point, Michelle, thank you. And then Amarnath says, can we still enjoy our dream without entering it or enjoyer of dream? And no one can mistreat anyone except our thinker. I don't know what our thinker is. But I guess it's a metaphor.

Peter, do you want to say something? Always. No, I don't want to say anything. I think, I'm sure you do. I was just marvelling at how that trolley is on a lean, like the leaning Tower of Pisa. Did you have any idea I was going to say that? No. All right. All right. Did you? No, not really. But there was, clearly there's an opening in this consciousness that's prepared to accept something new coming in. It's not fearful, is it? If you liked, you could say that the totality of consciousness that you are is just that moment of unadulterated joy of the expectation of something new dawning.

Yeah? That's what presence is. We live in the present. We're present now. We are just, if you like, ecstatically being the, it's more than just even the witness, isn't it? It's just the actuality of awareness coming forth into something and then disappearing. And mind doesn't go away. It never goes away. You can't stop your thoughts, but your thoughts, thoughts don't, it's all just incomprehensible to me really. I haven't got the words to really describe it. But what I wanted to say to you particularly, or to all of us, to all of us, to me as well, is that, you know, just give me a moment and I'll find it.

Perhaps, maybe not. Oh yeah, just rather than trying to find that space, you know, desperately searching in the mind for any kind of answer or trying to get out of the mind by using the mind, just marvel at the way that these things come and go and loosen the dependence, you know, the sense, the sense of dependence on the answer coming through your mind. Your cognitive abilities or, you know, your intellect. We've all been conditioned into this whirlpool of, you know, revering the intellect and our powers of being able to discern the truth out of all the evidence that's here and sifting through it and finding something of value.

Well, as we stand in this experience of being able to understand the presence of the reality is that no thing has any relevance here to anything else. It's spontaneously being thrown up in the air like a cosmic juggler. It's, yeah, that'll do. Thank you. How do things come and go if time is only a concept? There's a collapse of time and space in the present moment, right? It's not like there is no... There is no time in the present. Every question of things occurring in time and space is instantaneously gone the moment it was here, so to speak. So things don't really come and go, they just seem to come and go.

Yeah, that's right. Obviously, there is only here and there is only now, right? Isn't that one's direct experience? So nothing really manifests? No, no, nothing manifests at all. It's really because everything here really is only the expression of the... It's source anyway, isn't it? You know, the oneness that will... Yeah, the essential here-ness and now-ness and being-ness is present in everything, everything that is here. So, yeah, it's like... Everything, everything that is here, isn't it, Bob? This is what we're trying to communicate. We can't communicate that with words. It's not communicable. But... They call it a phenomenal manifestation. All manifestation, phenomenal. Your definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be.

So there's nothing real. It's all appearing, seemingly so. Oh, one of them. Just like a dream. Just... No, no. No, someone wanted to... Which way would you like? Okay. On the other way. Okay. If I could offer a thought on those lines. Dualistically speaking, the story, the dream, whatever we want to call it, again, I'd like to reiterate that it can't be negated. It exists. But from what Bob is teaching, the non-conceptual, it's only like a mirage, a vapor of smoke or whatever, which has shape and form for an instance or a certain time. But if I could just offer a thought to your question, Justin, isn't it?

A contemplation that this pattern, shape and form had a little while back in regards to that, went like this. That the conclusion dawned that there was no past, there was no future. Everything that has happened or ever will happen will always be in the present. Being there is, if you like, an eternal present. But, again, the contemplation also... The contemplation also continued is, so what about the events? You know, everything that's preceded in this world or beyond and the events to come? Well, sorry, the past, you know, all the things that have happened in the past, all the things that might happen in the future, in inverted commas.

And that, what about them? And what I took on was, again, the I in inverted commas, was that it could be like a... It could be pictured like, you know, the old movie reels, you know, before digital movies and that. You know, they had the big projectors and the huge reels and a huge roll of film that's to go through the lens of the projector onto the screen. And my picture was that everything... that has happened in this world, say, has gone through the lens of that projector and on the other reel. You know, so they're actually events, both what has happened and what will happen.

But the present always is. So all the... And, again, the story, you know, these events are just the story. You know, and from the highest perspective, they're not real or not permanent. It's just a temporal thing. They are real in the sense that they are pure. They are made of that which is. Exactly, yes, yes. They're real... Yeah, not in terms of any... Real... Yeah, in essence. Real but impermanent, transitory. Yeah, with the... Once we start to loosen this hold on the mind that is seemingly the answer to all things and recognise that all that Ed can ever come up with is a kind of limited referral to something else in order to find a truth.

If you don't have any real reference point, how can you find any truth? You posit the idea that something is something. You're starting with some sort of a priori, or some sort of fundamentally unquestionable truth from which you must relate everything else. Otherwise, you start... And the only unfathomable... The unquestionable truth is that this is all a play swirling around in that which is. In which case, you know, the only other way to do it is this sort of ridiculous self-evidentness, which is... Self-evident ridiculousness, which is that anyway. Anything which is self-evident truth is simply God, really. It's beyond question. In time and space, we run from reference...

We try to hold things tight, which is kind of anathema to the flow of the universe, right? Is it not? Everything is flowing, everything is in the universe. Nothing is still. And... But... It is in this sort of dream sequence, it's impossible. On investigation, it's very simply impossible to find anything of true, unadulterated, matter-of-fact, a priori truth, which isn't rooted in being. So, you know, what we do is we just... We're running as individuals, aren't we? Running, trying to mass together... It's kind of like the more reference points I have to prove something, the more true it is, right? And yet, when I look at any...

And start to pick apart any of those reference points which I've taken as the underlying principle of truth, then none of it holds any water. It's a house of cards. You know, we're returned back again simply to being. Trust, you know, even though thoughts are going to rise up and flow through, the very first step is just simply to loosen the... Rather than trying to get out of that, just accept that and then... But loosen the hold on it being the source of truth. And then something else will just spontaneously occur in this awareness that you are. Bob, did you want to add something? No, I think I'll leave it at that.

It says, you're dreaming a dream you call the world. He says stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream but not the other. He says love all of it or none of it and the rest will be done for you by the same thing that's brought you into existence and is living and breathing you right now. It happens by itself. And I have a couple of more comments from people who are with us. O'Toole says, No need to stop thoughts as stopping thoughts is itself a thought, so you can't stop thought by creating another thought.

Just don't take any interest in the content of thought and deprive of one's attention. They will disappear of its own. That's basically just reiterating. Yes, that's exactly right. O'Toole, don't take interest in the content of thinking. Yeah, alright. Just see them, like everyone says it here, see them as the passing clouds, as the passing phenomena. Amarnath, time and mind do not exist, our thoughts, imagine them. And dream dream dream or mind or world is nothing but illusion of words and thoughts. And smiling faces, that's also Amarnath. And Tanya, So true, O'Toole, wanting to stop thoughts as another thought says that it is what happens when you recognize what is, is just another thought that has no reality.

Seeing that naturally the interest seeing that naturally the interest in this thought in this thought in this thought drop away. Nothing to do and no one to do it. Yeah, just put your heart in the sky, not in the distractions. Just like Peter was saying, just really give all your attention, your love, your, all of your heart to the being, not distractions, not what distracts you from realizing that simple truth of the limitless source, not distractions, not what distracts you from realizing that simple truth of the limitless source, not distractions, not what distracts you from realizing that simple truth of the limitless source, of what you are, that you are, that, yeah, it's not the content of the dream, but the dreaming itself, that is a miracle.

The content is, yeah, it can be appreciated by all means, but from the light place, from the place when you know what it is, because then it won't hurt, then it won't bind. And there is another one from Amarnath, Any thought is dream or cloud, Any thought is dream or cloud, no meaning or energy in it, we provide fuel. And primarily, time comes only when think about it. Time is just comparison of the changes. Yes, good point. There's no time when you don't think. And even change when undefined is just what is. It's just the flow. Amarnath, beautiful. So time does not come but just as an appearance or dream or illusion passing through illusion of I or me.

And Otto, no mind, no time. And Claudiu, hi Bob and Kat, what is the role of intention? You want to come say a few words of intention? No intention of time. No intention of talking about intention. No intention of time. Just part of the way things appear. Peter, you want to answer that? Well, intention can be useful. Everything is useful here. Everything is actually pointing home. Everything. Everything, everything. If you have a problem, you can ask anybody in the street and they'll give you the right answer. Really, everything is pointing home. What I wanted to say was that, so if you have an intention to open up, or whatever way you want to describe this, getting to oneness, realizing that you are already that, well, bloody good, go for it, give it everything.

That's what I'd say. Don't question things. When we give everything the fullness of our attention, or we see everything, give ourselves totally to something, then that is what that is. There's no longer any split in the mind. I recently picked up a book on Dean's shelf somewhere about the Lao Tzu, and he's talking about the Tao, the harmony. And all of a sudden I got this huge, lovely kind of, as my friend Paul Hedeman would say, a download of information about harmony, and it was with me for days, this beautiful swirl of the, right in this experience of being in harmony, what it meant. And harmony is really that which is as well.

It's just a subtle sort of, another way of describing it. You might, you could utilize that if you want, just if you ever have a problem, what is the problem but a division in this so-called mind into good and bad, right? Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're off running, you're running down the, that street that you've been down many times before, Neo. You know, take a line out of the matrix. But if in the instant that you see, that you feel that there's a problem, if you just simply wait a moment and just let everything that is swirling around in relation to that problem, you know, the vision of all the other things that come in relationship to me having a problem, right?

Or me not having a problem, me having a toothache, me having an anesthetic, or all these ideas that flow in relationship to this one idea. Just let it all be there at once rather than trying to divide it all up. And then all of a sudden you have this wonderful experience of harmony because your mind is no longer split. You're no longer looking for this, that, and everything else. You're simply aware of the whole, and in that moment your problem will disappear, I guarantee it. Beautiful. There is another comment we have from people online. Amarna says, To whom is intention? Inside tension is intention, he says.

And the false self or I. That's one way of looking at it, and it is helpful to look who is it happening to always. Another way to look at intention is like the same way you look at motivation, or goal, or mission, anything. If a life wants to utilize you to be, let's say, a painter, or physician, or physicist, that's what Peter was just saying. That's just how the energy flows. And there is no split. The passion, the intention, the motivation, the goal is something that is appearing, is happening. That's just how the life expresses itself. Being a musician, or being a dancer, or being whatever the role is being played, you can still be an open space in which that body is utilized in the way life is utilizing it, and doing whatever it is doing.

If intention shows up, use it, as Peter says. It is just what God, one could say, is expressing through this body. If dance or song shows up, that's what's happening. If the thought shows up, that's what's happening. But you are beyond the mind, the intention, the thought. The song, all of it. You are the consciousness, the open space. Or even prior to consciousness, you are the pure potentiality of existence, which is realized when the body shows up, or unrealized still potential when the body doesn't show up. But that's all there is. Intention, attention, that's just the way it expresses. That in essence is real, like someone David, I think, said.

But as it expresses, or appears, it's dreamlike. So come back to the essence. And now we have Rohan. Prior, oh, there it is. Prior to intention is attention. There can only be intention when attention is fixated on me who can have intention. Yeah, of course. And you can look at it this way, too. But you can also narrate intention or define intention when you see the cat chasing a mouse. The intention is the way. The intention is to catch it and eat it. It's just a narration. The energy doesn't need conceptualizing. When there is conceptualization, it may be a pointer. It may be helpful. It may be used.

And it may be used in many different ways. The way, Rohan, you use it is helpful, too. All of it is just, like Peter pointed out, everything is pointing home because it is all there is. So it always points at itself. It's not just a point. It's a point. It's a point. It's a point. It's a point. It's a point. It's just the way. Can you see it? Can you look at it? And Amarnath says, beautiful, Rohan. Simply there is attention, no attachments of time, space, or person, and a lot of icons. And Tanya says, thank you, Bob, Cat, Peter, and all one. All is beautiful, perfectly so.

Have a lovely lunch. Love you all so much. And Amarnath says, thank you. And Amarnath says, thank you, Cat. And Rolf says, thank you. And now, thank you messages are coming. So I guess that's the time to wrap it up. Would you like to add something, Bob? No? Okay. So anyone else would like to add something? Or we just, oh, Ross, go on. Didn't hear you today. I just wanted to ask Bob, love all of it or none of it, what did, it's a sort of a feeling I've had about, about opposition rising. And particularly when it comes from a master like Jesus says, get thee behind me, Satan.

And the Buddha often speaks of Mara, the evil one. So I'm just thinking about within the duality, there are still forces to be, to reckon with that get in the way. So. I'll just bring them together and have them play a game of table tennis. So. Badminton. Maybe Bob could just clarify that. Clarify that, Bob? That the opposites, the same stick. Yeah. Got two ends to it. The opposites, you know, couldn't be one thing without the opposites. Couldn't be a bit so. Still the one end. The one essence, you know. When we try, when we, when we separate them, that's the problem. That's been the problem.

But as I say, you got the north, north and south pole. You know, one's supposed to be, they're supposed to be different, but they're the same thing. What's in between them? Might have been split them into opposites. It's not. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's our problem. We're splitting everything and saying, hey, it's two ends of the one stick, right? And you're saying it as it is. And there's never been any two. So I say that non duality is one, one without a second, not two. When there's two, it becomes relative relationship, dualism. Yeah, I think we could actually just continue on this one on lunch because see, If there is no duality, there is no appearance.

There can only be either good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, light, darkness, or nothing at all. And when Nisargadatta says love all of it or none of it, see what happens when you love everything. Love disappears. See when you hate everything. Hate disappears. Because we can only be aware of anything in opposite to another. You see, there is no light without the darkness. That can't exist. So the two things, the duality that is necessary for any appearance to exist, bad forces, good forces, then again, there would be forces. Day and night would be still appearing, but we don't have to call day good and night bad.

We don't have to love the day and hate the night. And that's the invitation. Just, you know, duality as it is, accept that it is. But without labeling it, having sort of a neutral approach to all of it, seeing it as it is, not taking any stance, being space. Space doesn't hate or love anything. Or we can say it loves everything and then there is no love. Or it hates and there is no hate. But I think it is a very, very good and beautiful and potent question, which we could actually just continue on dwelling. Did you? Just a quick one. Okay. Just a short comment.

Yes, the dream can be bad. It can be good. And occasionally it can be a nightmare. But it is a dream. Beautiful. Did you want to say something, Dean? No? No, that's okay. Okay. So I think there's another couple of things that have been said at the end. And it was, have a fantastic meal, says JB. And a few more thank yous. And thank you, Bob and Kat, for always shining the light of truth. Much love from Rohan. Separation is only illusionary as one essence is always just one essence. Even beyond the one. Beautiful. And what David was just saying, yeah, good or bad, is a manifestation, phenomenon, the dream.

So would you like to add something, Ross? Or would you like to continue on the lunch? Or you go? No, you continue. Lunch or talk? He's chosen lunch.