Sailor Bob and Sangha - Who's Karma? 31-01-2022

In case we forgot. Or we can just say the name of people who can raise their hands. Christian, Jane and Sue. Okay, so let's go. Good morning everyone. God. Well for those that are new and don't know what we talk about, in the traditions they call it non-duality. If you can't hear me, tell me to speak up. Non-duality meaning not two. One without a second. And that's what we try to point to here. And ask you to look, to see for yourself. So I can't teach you anything. And I can't tell you anything. That's all I do. I point toward and ask you to look to where I'm pointing to.

To see for yourself. Because no matter what you believe or what you understood, nobody can ever teach you anything. And nobody can ever tell you anything. Because as I say, if we're talking about non-duality, there is nothing other than that. There's not two. So who is there to teach you or tell you? Another way I put it, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to your body-mind that you think that you are. I'm talking about that I am, that I am. And that I am is a sense of presence. It's expressed through the mind as the thought I am.

Just to this, nothing else. That gives you a bit of idea what it's all about. As we say, non-duality, means not two. They say one without a second. And the great mantra that you've all heard and all know and all say is, I am that. And innately, you know that. Everything is that. Because that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room we are in. That's the space everywhere. That's the outside. That's the sky. That's the trees. That's the flowers. So innately we know it, but we discriminate it. Put the idea of the personal, the separate entity. That is all there is. Couldn't be anything other than that.

Otherwise it wouldn't be non-dual. It would be duality. And that's how it appears to be. It appears to be a dualistic manifestation. And that's why they call it in the scriptures a phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's all seemingly so. You take yourself to be this person, this individual. But are you a person? Are you this body? Are you this mind? Are you this individual or separate entity? They're things we ask you to look at, to see for yourself. So if it's non-dual, as they say, it can't be any of those things. It's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, and expressing as everything.

All of the texts and scriptures and a lot of the beliefs will call it God. You can call it God if you like. But then, have you ever investigated what God is? We make out that God is the one essence, the higher power, the pure intelligence energy. Well, if that is so, where does that leave room for you or me or anything else? So everything is already that. I've taken on this belief that we're a separate entity and a person. What we say here is also to look at these things, see for yourself, and we tell you that the false cannot stand up to investigation.

So some of these beliefs we've taken on, when you really question them and look into the truth, they'll fall apart. As you already know. As you see yourself, if you go down to the ocean and I ask you to get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea, what would you say to me? Don't be stupid. Because you know the sea's not blue. You've investigated, but it appears to be blue. The sky appears to be blue. But go up 30,000 feet in the plane, where's the blueness? It's still coming in from the porch. So there are a couple of things that when you investigate, you see not real, but there's many others.

The colours in the rainbow. Go outside and look at the rainbow in the sky. Only appears to be so. It's the sunlight expressing through the mist that forms on the background of the rainbow with all these colours. The water in the mirror arch. There are many, the snake in the rope. There are many different tales they tell pointing out that it's all an essence. Are you this body-mind? Well, we'll investigate that in a minute and have a look at it. Are you this person? Well, we need to look into that and investigate it. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word.

The Word was with God, and the Word was God. We don't realise that's all that God is, a label or a word we put on things. All things were made by Him, by the Word. And there's nothing made that was made without the Word. Isn't that so? You're labelling all these things with the Word. How many words were you born with? And you realise you weren't born with any words. So how do you know you were born? That's why you can't remember your birth because you had no words to say, I was born at this particular time. And that's why you can't remember your birth in the first couple of years of your life.

You lived without any words until you learnt words from your parents. So you can function quite well without the words, without the mind, because that living was going on for those couple of years without it. About two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning developed in these patterns. And that capacity of reasoning was what you believed yourself to be. Today, this person, where does the word person come from? Doesn't it come from the ancient Latin, persona, the mask? We've got this conceptual image about ourselves, a mask of concepts which we take to be real and get lost in the Word. We need to question and investigate these things.

Are you the body? Well, innately, you already know. You're not the body. Because don't you say, my body? Don't you say, my house? My car, my coat, my hat? You know you're not the coat, the hat, the car or the house. Maybe you're not the body either. The same with my mind. So we believe ourselves to be this body-mind. But when you look and investigate it and see, what's this body made up of? You realise this body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water and space. Just like the elements around you right now. If you think you're separated, separate yourself from the air.

Stop breathing. See how long you'd last without that element. Take the body temperature, the fire. See how long you'd last without that. Take the water out of your body. Your body is 60% water. You'd die of thirst. Take the body temperature out. You'd soon get hypothermia without that body temperature. So you see this body is made up of nothing but the elements. And all those elements can be rugged down to subatomic particles, the pure energy. So all this body is really is a vibrating pattern of energy. And that's to see the way it functions. It's always vibrating in the opposites. Shakespeare told you 400 years ago, a fire-breathing fire.

400 years ago, a fire-breathing fire. There's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. How does the thinking happen? Have a look. See thoughts are vibration, a movement of energy. It's always vibrating in the pairs of opposites. And the thinking is always the same. It's either good or bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. Have a look at your mind and see if it functions any other way. See it's not. Can't be this body. What about your mind? What about your mind? Well, what's a mind? Show me your mind if you think you are the mind. You say, my mind. Well, show me your mind.

Is there such a thing as mind apart from thought? And if you realize that thought is mind, it must be a thought. Which particular thought would you be? Well, wouldn't you be the primary thought, that I am thought, that sense of presence, which translates through the mind as the thought I am. And if you were that thought, you'd be frightened of losing it, because it would be the end of you. But you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. So you know you're not that thought. Gladly give it away. So what are you? That leaves you as the life itself. The pure life.

The animating life, the intelligence energy that came in it. How did that begin? We'll go back to your father and your mother, but you can go back as far as you like, and look into it, investigate. That pattern that you call your father, that innate intelligence energy, through the food he's eating, and the air he's breathing, enabled in that pattern a little form, sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. Now that sperm is suffused with intelligence energy. The life. It knows what to do. And the same in the mother. The life essence in your mother, again through the little microscopic particle called an egg, or an ovum to form.

That ovum or egg attaches itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm swam to the ovum. It knew what to do. When those two things come together, that cell doubled and redoubled, and formed the little embryo, the little fetus. What you are today. That's where you began from. What were you doing about it then? When you didn't have any words. Nothing at all. So you realise you're living before you learnt the words. So in that case you must be prior to the word. You must be before the word. You're prior to the thought. So take the thought out of that body, and you've got a cause.

That's the body that's the cause. It's from all the internal organs, because the body's shape is the body of the body. So it's part of the body. The body then has two через. The body can't see. Can't see what? We can see the body. We can't find it. The body can't see. The body can't hear. The body can't see. The body can't hear. The body can't hear. The body can't hear. The body can't hear. Or it can't see. Or it does and dies. And what does the body do? It's a body, and he can't see. You've got all that amazing information in a computer, but what good is that without the power?

No good at all. And what good are you without the life? Then you can understand what Christ was talking about when he says, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself, but he wasn't. He was trying to point out that you are the same as he and everything else is, you are that life. And life lives on life, for out of life more life is continually coming. There is nobody who lives a life. But we've taken on this idea we are this person and see the problems that it causes. Because the person has believed in me or I, and we take this me or I to be a separate entity, an individual.

That's it. And me can be very fearful. Me can be anxious. Me can be depressed and unhappy. Me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And what's the cause? Well, what's me is the cause, that's what so-called karma is. Cause and effect. But what happens if I ask myself, can there be an effect if I'm not related to the cause? Well, you don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to work that out. Where can the effect lodge if it's not related to the cause? Can't lodge anywhere. So we got this cause and effect, this psychological suffering going on all the time. We believe it to be so because we never questioned.

How does that work in your body? Well something comes up in your body, and I like it, not realizing that this body is transient. There is nothing static about it whatsoever. It's transient, it's constantly changing right now. Right now in this instance there are thousands of cells, not one or two, but thousands of them dying and being replaced. What are you doing about that if you think you're on the show? You realise you can't do anything about it. But it's happening, that life that you are, it's expressing through it, that's doing it all for you. It brought you into existence and it's the living being of you right now.

So if something comes up and you like it, and we don't want the things we like to go, not realising that everything is transient, no matter how much you love it, no matter how much you want to keep it there, it's going to change. We don't want it to happen. So we fixate on it and try and alter it, modify it or correct. It's not going to change. Correct it. Instead of leaving it as it is. And it changes. There's constant change going on there. Something comes up as it's opposite and I don't like it. See when a thought comes up and I like it and want to keep it there, I resist it from going.

Trying to keep it there, I resist it from going. So what's happening in the body then? There is resistance and resistance is conflict. You're at war with it then. You're fighting it. And conflict makes you uneasy. It makes you anxious, fearful, unhappy, depressed. And that conflict is uneasiness. Another name for that is dis-ease. You see where all these dis-eases arise in this body, in this mind. Something comes up and I like it. This is good. Oh no, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. I try to keep it. Something comes up and I try to keep it there, not realising how much I love it.

It's going to change anyway. But I don't want it to go. Can't stop it. I resist it. So there's again now fighting it, trying to keep it there. A resistance conflict and disease. Now that conflict causes my psychological suffering. For example. For it's only the me that can be unhappy. Only the me that can be shameful or guilt or fearful or anxious. Me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And the effects are my unhappiness, my sadness, my guilt, my shame, remorse. They're the effects of it. So that's all that so-called karma is. Cause and effect. If I look into it and see there's no cause.

I ask myself a simple question. question can there be affect if it's not related to the cause? I realize I can't. Well then in seeing that I realize I can be rid of all this psychological suffering. All I've got to do is recognize the truth and that's the scriptural saying know the truth and the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You can only be free from the conceptual beliefs we've taken on board. Now we believe this and we believe that. Shakespeare tells you there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. Miss Agatha tells you nothing can trouble you and he means exactly that.

Nothing at all can trouble you except your own imagination. When you look at that and you'll see that's true. Break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. And realize that's what we're doing. A thought will come up we put this conceptual belief in. Images on it. Take it to be real and we lock into the images so we bound by these conceptual images we have you know. And nothing can trouble you if you have if you're not imagining and anything just leaving it as it is. And that's a fact. But needs to be looked into investigated and seen for yourself and that's what happens when its investigated.

Thoughts will come up out of habit. Watch your thinking. next thought going to be? You can't tell me what your next thought is going to be, but thoughts will arise. If they arise, if they come up, and I haven't thought about them, that doesn't mean that the thoughts are spontaneous. But see what happens when a thought comes up. We translate it into the thought, I think. I'm thinking this thought. As soon as you say, I think, what have you done? You've formed a subject, a thinker. That thinker is what you call I or me. Now that thinker is thinking this thought, and we take the thought to be real.

What do you do when you've formed a thinker? You've formed a subject, a thinker. Now instead of being the absolute, the spontaneous natural intelligence, you've become the subject, this person. I think this, I think that. And then that'll continue into other thoughts, and the... All sorts of concepts and ideas will come up. But if you ask yourself this, can the thought, I think, actually think? Thinking is happening in form, subject, object. Can the thought, I think, actually think? No, you realise there's thinking going on, and it translates as the thought, I think. So the thought, I think, cannot think. Thinking is happening. Translated by the thought, I think, and formed a subject, an object, but there's just actually the thinking.

The same with the seeing. The thought, I see, comes up. But can the thought, I see, see? The thought, I see, can't see, but you've formed an object, a subject. And you've got this thought, I see, me, Bob, the Australian, whatever you believe, has the capacity of thinking, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling. But the I in your idea, The I-N-G, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the thinking, the feeling, that's the actuality. That's what's going on spontaneously and naturally. And it's not divided at all. It is the one essence like they tell us. It's being, knowing and seeing, tasting, touching, doing everything. But now we've split it into the subject-object and lose sight of the reality of it.

And soon as I see this, I form a concept about it. This is good and this is bad, this is pleasant, this is painful. And so it goes on. I get locked into all these concepts. Now they call it, in Buddhism, one of the things they call it the cognising emptiness. We think we are cognising or knowing the emptiness. The Buddha calls it the cognising emptiness. But it's not that we are cognising the emptiness. It's the emptiness that has the capacity to know. It's the capacity of cognising. And the Buddha made the statement that emptiness is form. That all these patterns, shapes and forms, you, me and everything else in this manifestation are that cognising emptiness.

And he turned it around the other way and said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. And that's what it's doing. We're cognising and putting labels on these things and putting the belief that these patterns shapes and forms, which are appearances, are real. But they're nothing but the emptiness. What is the emptiness? What is the life essence? That life essence is the silence, the stillness, the space like awareness. Can you find a centre to space? Can you find a circumference to the space? Has space got any substance at all? Can you cut it? Can you part it? Can you grab it? You can't.

You can't realise all this manifestation is all the content of space. Can you postulate or think of anything that could be out of space? What would it be in? You realise it'd have to be that space, that silence, that stillness. So the content of space is no thing. We say it's empty, it's nothing. But we don't mean that as nothing. It's no thing. We can realise you're a thing, I'm a thing, the tree's a thing, the flower's a thing. All the manifestation are things appearing in this no thing. Or just ask yourself the simple question, can something come from no thing? It can't. So you and I, as these patterns, shapes and forms, are just the expressions of that, what I call, for one of the two.

It's not a thing. It's a term, a better term, intelligent entity, the life essence. You are that life essence. You're not the person. You're not the separate entity. And that life essence is the one life that's patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. You can call that God if you like. But you see, I don't use the term God here because you can get confused with that term. Purely and simply we all come from different traditions, different backgrounds, and each one of us will have a different background. our concept about God and see how that works in the world. The Hindus have got their concept, the Muslims, the Buddhists, the atheists, the agnostics, we're all fighting over this thing we call God, which I tell you in the Bible all it is is a word and the word is not the thing.

But what is it? You must be that life essence itself. You can't negate that. And that's what Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself, he was talking about that sense of presence. He knew that. And he says I and the Father, I and that essence are one and the same thing. But the Father, that essence is greater than this conceptual image, which it is. That's what we need to do, investigate this essence and see for ourselves. Nobody's ever going to be able to see that essence. Do it for us, investigation. If something comes up, ask yourself who is this happening to?

The obvious answer is it's happening to me. But that fellow up the road says there is no me. Is he right or is he wrong? I'll question it and have a look. What is me? Me is a word, a thought. How many words was I born with? I wasn't born with any words. But I think that's the way it is. I think two, two and a half, I was around that age before I learnt the first word. But I lived without the word. So I must be prior to the word. So if I'm prior to the word, how can I be this I or me?

Their concepts or words are picked up. And where does that lead me? What if I'm not the word? What must I be? I can only be that life. And that is the godliness. The one life that pattern shapes and forms and experiences as everything. And you are that. That is what you are. That's what you've always been. That's what you always will be. And take the life out of that body. And you've got a corpse I pointed out before. And these words are not coming up without the word. What's happening right now with that life? What's your next breath? Do you know anything about your next breath?

And you don't. But that next breath is going to happen. This happen isn't it? What about the heart beating? You know, you're saying am I going to beat my heart? I'm going to take the next thought? You're not. But the heart is beating, the breath's happening, the concepts, ideas and images are coming up. Life is living, it's pure being. As they call it in Hinduism, Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa, Sat is existence, Chit is consciousness, Ananda is loving to be. And the other two factors, Nama Rupa, name is Nama, Rupa is form, the body. They say Nama Rupa Amaya, illusion. This body-mind is illusion. So they say it's a phenomenal manifestation, a significant manifestation of the body.

So it's a manifestation made up of form, phenomena. Look up your dictionary, look up the word phenomena. The dis-definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So all this manifestation, you, me and everything else, are seemingly so. And it needs a pattern to express through. It can't express through that pure essence. So what does it do? The amazing intelligence does, it forms this body with the organs, the ideas, the mind, the mental capacity, everything in it. So it's all forming as mine. Well have a look at that. Existence, consciousness, bliss. We think we're going to become something. And that's what we're trying to do.

That's what the search is. We're searching to become this god, or one with this thing called god. Not realizing that it's all there is. And aren't you being right now? You're existing right now, aren't you? You're not unconscious right now. You're not unaware. You're aware right now. And you're happy to be right now. You wouldn't want to be dead for quids right now. So you already are that existence, consciousness. What's the search all about? Another way they put it is being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone's not being right now. Yeah, I'm being. But you call yourself a human being. Anyone is not knowing. No, I am knowing.

I'm knowing right now. And anyway you want to be dead, you don't. So you're being, knowing and loving to be. Now you call that being a supreme being. Put that label on, if you believe in god, you call god the supreme being. And you call yourself a human being. What if you took that label supreme off, and took the label human off? Try and separate the being that's with you right now. Tell me I am not. Tell yourself I am not. You can say it as much as you like. But you can't negate that beingness. So you already are that. What's the point of trying to become something that you already are?

All that does is take up the problem, the thinking problem, that keeps it going with thoughts, feelings and emotions. Settle down in the fact that you already are that. And let that livingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness, that beingness happen. Which it does. You don't know what your next breath is. You don't know what your next thought is. But breathing, thinking is happening. It's all happening naturally, effortly, and spontaneously. So as Ram Dass used to tell you, be what you are. Not what you think you are. Not what you believe you are.

But be actually what you are. And all you can put on it, when you When you look and see this body-mind, there's a vibrating pattern, it's mire, it's illusion, it's fiction. But you can't negate that life and look around you and realise that is all there is. There is only life. There is nobody who lives a life. Life lives on life. And out of life, more life comes. And like Christ says, you are the life. He tells you in the Sermon on the Mount, take no thought for your life. What you shall eat, what you shall drink, what you shall wear. Your Father knows you have no idea of these things.

Your Father is good. Pleasure to give you the kingdom. Look at the birds in the air. They don't gather in the barns. They don't sow crops and reap. Look at the lilies in the field. Even Solomon in his glory didn't have the colours of one of those. Which of you, by taking thought, can add one cubit to his stature? You can't. We believe we are. Why don't you look into it and see whether you are or whether it's the life that's doing it all. And realise that you are that. You are already that. That's what we point out here and ask you to look at.

And some of you recognise that. Some of you are looking into it. Boom. And that's the point. When you get not satisfied with what you are through all the religious things that we've taken on board and you haven't found the answer, it naturally pulls you and turns you to look somewhere else. And coming to something like this opens you up to something further. And see where it takes you. Be open to it. If you're not open, discard it and carry on your same way. Thinking in the pairs of opposite. Or go to whatever. Think of what you think works for you. And test it out.

Know the truth and recognise the truth. Recognise, recognise. Be that cognising emptiness. That will set you free. So that's to say, some of you know it. Some of you are looking at it. Some of you might have questions. Some of you can express it. So express it as you know it. So others might hear it. If it's said in a better way than what's being said here. But it's up to each and every one of you to do what you will about it. So away you go. Good people. I've got a couple of comments from people who are watching with us online. There's about 30 people right now.

So here, there's a few welcome good morning messages. JB is happy to see new faces. And loves your shirt. And I'll be reading the 30 people. And Tanya says, without words you can't say what anything is. You think you know what things are, but take away the ideas and I don't know anything. Nothing can be said about that. There is not even silence because that is an idea. and I have no idea where this comment came from haha that's right without words you can't say anything but have you stopped breathing yeah have your heart stopped beating here and fingernails the living is going on prior to the word like it was before you learned anyway and the words are useful translator but it's not the thing yeah you don't have to pretend you know anything Michelle says there are qualitative differences perceived through the senses though without the need for thought for example blue exists relative to red it takes thought to label them as such but the eyes still pick up the difference between the two colors so does that contrast denote to that maybe to say it was not something to say it other than what it is can you see it other than what it is without the word yeah the eyes can't see the eyes can't see that's exactly right I actually commented on it that without duality there would be no appearance at all because the fact is for anything to appear it has to stand out of its background there would be no day there was no me there was not God it was not God it was God it was God there's no God it's not God night.

There would be... You have to have the contrast to know one thing and one thing. Yeah. And that's why fashion forms this pattern we call bodies to express through. They're the instruments which it's expressing through. I'll get you, I'll get you the speaker so that people who are with us can actually hear you. Yes, and Bob can put his ears. Can you pass it on? We have Mayer, Illusion. So I was wondering why life that created the illusion. The illusion. Elaborate on the thing. Well, why would life create the illusion? And Jane asked her, who would want to know? What does Bob want to say?

That would be pretty, pretty ordinary and it's absolute, Miss Winham. It was absolute, you couldn't describe it. You couldn't describe it. Can you pass it on? A mind, so life created a mind and a body. I'm wondering why life did that. I agree with that. You have to repeat that Bob because no one can hear you. So why life has created the illusion and the bodies and the minds? So, can you answer it again? Well, the urge to know or the urge to express is functioning within the mind. I'm talking to you right now as it is through anything. How is it going to express if it didn't form a pattern to express through?

If it's absolute. The thing is we take the pattern, shapes and forms. Yeah, but just in that sense. Yeah. We just have to monitor it a little bit better because we have people with us who we just can't leave out. So. Go on. Yeah. What can I say anyway? That's much too much I think. I'm just going to get screwed. So I've got two more. Okay. Just a little bit of elaboration on how you see karma, whether it's a total illusion because we're in this body appearance and mind appearance. And I always get a little bit, I always laugh a little bit because, you know, like the Buddhas, they say there's no self.

That we're all an illusion. But then people talk about reincarnation. So how would you elaborate on that concept of reincarnation? Wait, Bob, can you just wait for two seconds? It's just a concept. And what was reincarnated in the first place. And that's only appearance, a phenomenal manifestation. So it's really no thing. No thing has ever happened. So there's no reincarnation. And there's no karma. No. No reincarnation, no karma. Yeah. Sorry. If I could just make a comment on that point, Rohini. No reincarnation, no karma. But from my perspective, that's only in a dualistic sense, a non-dualistic sense. Sorry, a dualistic, sorry, non-dualistic sense. But there's dualism happening also.

Isn't that correct? Well, it's the dualisms and the appearances. I mean, this is all dualism, isn't it? Yes. And yet, from the highest perspective, with Bob's teaching and the Master's, there's none. So there are two things happening. But duality is only an appearance. Nothing would appear unless we had life and that and we are that. So I think that's what's being said. Did you want to say something? No. Nothing. Yes? Actually, I hope it may be further on your question. If for some reason we live our life and we never wake up to the fact that we're not this self, can that illusion carry on from one life to another life?

Absolutely. When you see an illusion, it's only a phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so. You have a dream of a night. You wake up. What happened to the dream? It disappeared. And when you realise you wake up, your body hadn't moved off the bed and no words had come out of your mouth. But it seemed to be happening in the dream. But what you don't realise is we wake up to this as a waking dream. That dream, the hills and the rivers or wherever you were in that dream at night, all disappear. When you wake up each morning, it has a seeming continuity from where it left off the night before.

And the house, the rivers and all the rest of it is still there. And the bodies are moving around and expressing. So this is a waking dream. So it's all appearance, all dreaming. Also what David was saying, I like David how you address it, that there are sort of two different levels or directions to look at it. And from the absolute perspective, when you think of yourself as the life, as the energy, just if you were thinking of yourself as the electricity, and now you're reincarnated to one lamp, to another lamp, reincarnated to a toaster and to everything else that is electrically connected. Right. And you're a computer, you know, and you are all that electricity.

Your body of expression is one, two, three. You can even incarnate to a few bodies at the time. But when you switch off, it's not that the same quants, portion of electricity goes to another body. So when you die, life comes back to life. But it's not that there is a fraction of life defined as me and that fraction goes somewhere else and continues. Life continues just like electricity continues. But it's not. Bob has a beautiful analogy about that. When you put the drop of water back to the ocean, can you ever get the same drop out again? The water will evaporate, will become clouds, rain, go to the rivers, waterfalls.

But it will be a water, the body of water, but not a particular drop shaped in a way which we accustomed to believe is an ego or soul or something separate, permanent. Mine, something unique about me. So in this sense, in the relative sense, yes, you can see how the life incarnates to every thought. There is life incarnating. One, two, three. Relatively, reincarnation, incarnation. Yeah, absolutely. Re, maybe like Julia pointed once. No re in anything. Yeah, but it incarnates. Incarnation happens constantly. But in the absolute sense, nothing has ever happened. This is life. It's a dreamlike reality which only exists because it appears to be.

It is nothing pretending to be something. It is both nothing and something. Did you want to? Oh, yeah. Go. Go. Bob and Kate, I just wonder, the question of karma was brought up also in this. And I particularly like the analogy that has been given in the past about the glass. Maybe you'd like to share that with us today. The glass. The glass of what? The water that's half full. Glass half full. Glass half full. Glass half full. Oh, yeah. Jane, you go on. No, no, no. I don't know it. I'm just saying that he said it's an analogy about the glass half full. Glass half full.

No, no. About karma? Can you say it? Because I don't remember. You don't remember? You were the one that told me. Really? Okay. Well. Tell me how amazing I was. I forgot it. Well, this is how I remember it. It was given to me in a Saturday. I remember it. I remember it. I remember it. I remember it. It was given to me in a Satsang a while back. We were talking about karma and the way it was described to me was that if you can imagine a glass half full of water and we hold it out here like this or perhaps over some tiles and this glass is the ego with the individual karma, so-called individual karma in it.

And we dropped the glass over. We dropped it onto the tile floor and it breaks. The glass is no more. The water is there, but it's sort of gone everywhere. And that glass is the ego and the water in it is the karma that's been good or bad or whatever. It has been accumulated over a lifetime, lifetimes, whatever. But once the ego is gone, then there was no individual self to grab onto. There was no individual self to grab hold of anything, whether it's good karma, bad karma. It may exist in some form, but the individual ego is completely gone. I would buy them, but I haven't got an ego.

Well, what about the habit of egoing? Naming and claiming. Is that gone? Yes, absolutely. The individual is what most of us claim is the individual, but the ego is the big one really. The ego is just the ego. The ego is the ego. The ego is just the me, which is just a memory. Which is, you know, ego is just a... Hang on a sec. Ego is just another word for me. Yes. Yeah. And me is only in the memory. And so when the memory is no longer... Yeah. You mean when the individual self is no longer? The individual... The identity... The individual self is the me.

Is the ego. The ego. Yeah. Is the... Exactly. It's just different names for the same thing. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So suddenly you're looking down and you've got little hoofs and fur and instincts. And it's now, what's happening to me now? As it was in this life, what's happening to me now? So the grasping... The grasping... The grasping is still... The habitual grasping is still there. The habit is still there. That's right. But it's now... And then it loses its memory of... Because it's no longer got anything to relate to as the me of this life. It's like it's reforming from the habit of me in a new form.

As I said. Yeah. But the ego is still there. But it's... As I understand what Bob is pointing to is... Yeah. When the point is reached where we completely drop the ego and we're in the I state. Is that correct, Bob? There's no ego. Yeah. No, no. The I am state. Oh, the I am state. Yeah. But there is no ego. Okay. Let's stop there. The I am state is just a sense of prism. Yeah. There you go. Yes. Yes. So I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to... I have a few...

Can I hop on? Yeah. Some more? Yeah. There's no sense of presence at all. Never was. Never will be. Sense of presence there is. No ego, you mean. No ego. No ego. Yeah. No personal. Yeah. It all breaks down into no thing. Still no thing has ever happened. It appears to be so. Who it's appearing to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, it seems to, it's a fiction also. The family, the family couldn't be the other without the one. So, they are interdependent in a way. Absolute reality to any of it. We have a couple of requests from people who are online with us, and we have 35 people now.

So, Rosa says, could Bob share more on the word, actuality, when he mentions seeing, tasting, feeling, et cetera? I can grasp, but it's expanding. would be clearer actuality what's the actuality only actual seems real it can't be negated mm-hmm well the gate the main can you say there is something neither no but you can in it can you can't my god you can't deny it well it's just as it is she was suggesting about elaborating on seeing hearing tasting touching smelling I think this is what what she was looking forward to more clarification on that so nothing more comes up Rosa you just Skype Bob and have a little bit of a private time with Bob just like to take that a little bit further with the reincarnation and karma it seems that that all happens in the dream so it's quite cat was suggesting that just in the momentary thoughts but if it's all happening in the dream well anything can happen and the Buddha through Ananda he's the chief disciple who committed all the Buddha's suitors to memory he related a story of this man that used to give the Buddha a hard time he would never make it give any Donna when when the Buddha and his monks went on a morning where they walked out with their bowls and they took donations of food that I can't think of the the name of that but there was this man who was very stingy and never gave anything to the Buddha always had disparaging things to say about him and he he was a very miserly sort of person he was he was actually very wealthy and that was just part of the part of the dream part of the story but then that man died and he came back he came back in the dream as a dog and every time the Buddha and his disciples walked past this house the dog would come out and eat bark ferociously at the Buddha and the Buddha said just called him by her name and he said well say so-and-so some Indian nine what he's carry on like this the dog snapping away and then later one of the disciples said well why why were you talking like that to the about the dog and calling him so and so and the Buddha said that he died he came back as this dog and all his all his treasures were buried in his backyard and he addressed the dog now this is all going on in the appearance yeah it's a dream he addressed the dog and and the dog said the dog didn't say that the dog indicated that he knew what the Buddha was saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying what he's saying have said where did you bury that treasure so and so so the dog walked off and he led some people to some place and there they dug and they dug up the treasure of the man so there's lots of stories like that that indicate there's um uh incarnation of one life to another life and not necessarily a human life or it could be higher could be lower could be uh yeah it could be anything but they're just little things that are in the dream yeah and i think it's a comfort to the me to the mind uh which is such a habitual thing that works in the pairs of opposites and the me being a part of that pairs of offers opposites me and the other life and death heaven and hell all those things um in the dream as you were saying it's a comfort to uh the me to know that there's something after this uh but in fact there is only this if if that was the next to next to next to yeah yeah julia did you want to say something next to jerrold ah christian did you want to say something oh sorry christian miss that so going back to habituation so what so i realized being which is what bob's alluding to is like say when christ said um i'm now one with the father so he's no longer relating as jesus the person the carpenter or the he's he's now one with the essence though he's just the essence is the being so the habituation has been removed from the grasping at this or that or appearances of the conceptions or i so the being he's now relating as the being so that being is like deathless so he's beyond birth and death as that being as that so that can still reincarnate can still move around and take form um but it's but it's always the being so there's no there's no loss or gain or death or life or yeah so that's yeah yeah you know it would be very interesting too you want to say something there's all stories it all takes place in time well show me time is there a past if you don't think about it is there such a thing as a past is there a future you'll say i was in the past we'll try and live yesterday try and live five or ten minutes ago you can't you can recall it but you can't live it like fairy tales fairy tales have a beginning and generally a good moral to them but they're all tales all what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it i can't say anything at all about it but you can't negate it you can't say it's not so we can talk about buddhas and christ everybody else you know it'd be interesting i think too yes there's only pure being that's right just one thing you said about the me wants to um think there's something after this i think also it gives comfort to think that there isn't something after this when you realize there's no me you realize that there's you know full stop i mean really yeah but i'm saying people who are still living in that story in the me and the other story and that you know here and hereafter story um it gives them comfort to live in the dream they may never investigate they might be quite happy in their dream and it's all happening as it should if there's if there's no me and um it's unlikely that you ever realize that there's no me why shouldn't you just go yourself there because i love to be yeah because i love to be and there's also dharma in the dualistic form yeah i'm not saying from my perspective i'm just yeah it's a question really isn't it like none well i guess it would you know diextic experiments yeah really like a big difference and you are can't do too much i think is continue yeah i think that is why we have to give the judge dualistic world some sort of importance.

That's why I know in Buddhism you've got the two truths, the relative truth and the ultimate truth, and they're both two sides of the same kind. The sense of a need to kill yourself would be giving it too much importance. The me? Yeah, if you felt the need to kill yourself, you're giving it too much importance. Yeah, yeah, that's one way of looking at it. Yeah, you are like, yeah, you are in a sense, yeah, you're right. It's the ultimate sort of selfish, you know. Well, it's not going to change your presence. It's not going to change your being, the way you are, and always are, always have been, always will be.

It'll change this manifestation, but if you invest in importance in destroying that, then you're over-investing it. And thinking that's going to solve your problems or something, then you're investing too much in that as the problem is relating as that, that you're going to kill, as opposed to the problem is relating as to what you are. Unborn Buddha mind. Yeah, that's present. Unborn Buddha mind. Is it that Buddha mind, does that come up within Hinduism? Baba was saying that one. Unborn Buddha mind, does that come up within Hinduism, or does it come up in the Nsing-Ning? They call it cognising emptiness instead, or something. The unborn Buddha mind.

Well, what? That's all our mind. Absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing whatsoever. What can you take away from it? Or as they call it in Buddhism, the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? They give it in one sentence there. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. So as soon as we put concepts or thoughts or ideas on anything, we're back in the trap. Leave it as it is, unaltered, unmodified. And it changes naturally and effortlessly, as ever happened. Mind is a concept. Yeah, exactly. Non-conceptual awareness without a concept. Can I have a question? Thanks. So Bob, when I've read about different traditions, you know, Hinduism, often they'll talk about cycles of time, you know, and this is a better age, that was a crappier age, you know.

We're sort of in the shit now, more or less. So is that all just a result of the mind needing to explain stuff to itself, that we have those sort of explanations? Well, who's that? Is there such a thing? What we call mind is only thought. And which particular thought are you? What you choose to identify as. Yeah. So no thing has ever happened. There's no choice maker. No. It's like you don't even choose to identify. Yeah. So what we have to identify is the life expressing through the stories. And when we think of religions, life expresses through the stories as the stories for bigger social order.

You know, the story about Buddha and dog, it's a story about not being greedy or whatever is socially accepted. And this is also life. Story as a dream. Yeah. They, once upon a time, there is no time. In this immediate experience, there is no past, there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow. Story about Buddha, Jesus, all of that is just here in the head. When the thought is present, Buddha is present. When the thought is not, there is no Buddha, there is no dogs, there is no other continents. It's just what is right now. But when we look at the stories, they also like a beautiful, beloved children of the absolute, just like flowers, the sky, the trees.

They're gorgeous. So, but when we don't believe them to be truths or definitions of reality or meaning of life, then we just see the beautiful, beloved children of the absolute. And we don't believe them to be the truth. And we don't believe them to be the truth. And we just see the beautiful art, a story as an art. But it doesn't have to relate to me or convey anything. It's just a phenomenon, a cultural, social phenomenon, rather than the truth. And I have a few comments from people who are with us. We have again 35, 36 people. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot.

Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments.

Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. And they had a few comments. Gosh, quite a lot. Sorry. Too many. to the mind yes if the why questions don't arise why do we do it why the life why that's wonderful that's fantastic dale it's just great to hear katherine says so grateful for the true love that emanates from you both bob and kat i love from james and katherine i love to you guys thank you and then tanya says there is still breathing hair and fingernails growing haven't fallen off this chair life functioning perfectly well without any concepts thank you and questions and answers are stories isn't it primali says absolutely questions answer stories now amanath neither dualism or non-dualism exists without reference word or thought both are non-definable present moment itself is phenomenon no coup of continuation timeless acting as time dream waking and no punctuation the realm of the relative and realm of the absolute says estelle me or mind or dream never existed says amanath incarnation reincarnation is to the false me relative sense only and of course it brings up all the sense of social justice and that other stuff you know an explanation why this reincarnation answers very very basic uh what she called it relative stone sort of a questions story brings up time and space absolutely and the me solidified such a thing as time show me space and entertaining too it's the mind food i'm just thinking it'd be very entertaining though because there's like all these documentaries and do you want to read the rest okay oh you're going sorry yes because you didn't speak today and it will be good I was requested not to show up on the videos by some people on YouTube.

Well, I'm going to request that you continue to show up. Thank you. All I was just going to add was it's all these documentaries I've seen. I've never had any memories personally, you know, of any other life than this one. Go on, keep noses, you'll have plenty. Yeah, apparently. I mean, I'll make something up, I'm sure, you know. But I always thought it would be interesting if somebody could do some sort of research where we could find out how many of us remember being King Henry VIII, okay, or how many of us were Shakespeare. How many of us were, I don't know, just be interesting, that's all.

You know, because I don't know. I mean, how many of us have been told by some storyteller, I don't call them, you know, psychics, oh, you. You were a famous opera star, you were this. Yeah, I was famous. You know, I was special. Yeah, very special. Anyway, that's all. Yeah, where are we living? Incarnation? Michelle, I think. Okay. So Michelle replying to Arminath, she said, Incarnation, reincarnation is the false me, relative sense only. And then Michelle said, Could patterns of energy continue after the death of the body, though, without the need for a me or a self? That was the question. So could patterns of energy continue after the death of the body without a me or a self?

I can go there, but. Yeah, well, whatever. I don't think you need a me or a self to have energy. Okay. Okay. The Upanishads. It says there's a sequence of karma is, and I'm trying to see more. Number one, the separate center self because of non-investigation. Desire arises because of separation, and separation or desire causes doership or karma. All three are false, never existed. Separate self, desire, karma, never existed. Incarnation, reincarnation is the false me, relative sense only. He's replying to himself. And then to whom a pattern trace it, self does not withstand to inquiry. So it doesn't stand up to the investigation is what I think he's saying.

Pramali says, If one can't remember the last life, then does it matter anyway? Good question. Who cares? If one can't remember the last life, then doesn't matter. And then Amarnath replied to that question. He said, Remembrance or forgetting is in memory conditioning. Is there just ignore ignorance gone as if never it is if it never existed. And then somebody else wrote, wrote, Rosa wrote, got it. It just is. And then Michelle wrote, Buddhism would say sentience or. Or form is suffering. So the goal is to escape cyclic existence or localized consciousness. Is this the way things occur? Who knows? And then Pramali said exactly. And then Amarnath said, karma is a movement of mind, separate center.

Whether mind moves or not, we are all that. But prior and beyond the mind, separate center. When everything is me, Amarnath wrote, or nothing is mine or no more dreaming or karma. Pramali wrote, the story of the dog can be just a story somebody made up. As they all are, yeah. We've been talking about stories and Bob was saying, you know, the absolute expresses itself in patterns. To me, stories are patterns. Life wants to express itself through a variety of patterns. Just looking at all us here today. We're patterns of energy. We're patterns of energy. Yeah, we're patterns of energy. Yeah. So life's expressing ourselves through the patterns of energy.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. But not a story, just a pattern. A story to me is a pattern and there's probably a set number of patterns universally. Because there's probably a set number of patterns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably a number of stories or whatever comes first before it's actually manifest. It's in the absolute or mental realm. And there might be just, say, 108 patterns that keep repeating themselves, infinite stories and patterns. Bob wants to say something. Oh, okay. Sure. Take away the time and space you wanted to say. What can you postulate or think about them? What can you postulate or think?

Yeah. What can you postulate or do? Mm-hmm. Yeah, but absolutely the patterns. We've just canceled ourselves out. Mm. It's nothing that is not a pattern. The light is pattern. The sound is pattern. Stories are patterns of lights and sounds and everything. All of them. Yes. Flowers, skies. Stars, cells in the body, thoughts in the mind, feelings, emotions. All of it is just movement of energy. It's nothing that is not it. But I think that's just another story. Well, yes. That's also a fabulous mystery. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Heaven and hell as well. All of it. Can I just jump in and say something about just here?

I'm just feeling like commenting on what apparently somebody is saying about not wanting to hear you. Okay. Oh, don't worry about that. No. Can I just say something? Let me just say something. No, no, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Okay. What's cool about this particular meeting is that he doesn't make anybody better or worse, higher or lower, more or less. And there's so many people here who can express the same thing you're saying, but in maybe a way that kind of reaches in a way that you don't.

And you know that. And so you encourage people. It's his generosity that allows us to speak. It's because he's so kind. He's generous and wants to hear how we're perceiving the pointers. You know, it's all because of Bob's generosity. Oh, yeah. And but I think his generosity is coming from the fact that he understands that other people can say the exact same thing he's saying, you know, in a way that that's why he encourages it. Because he knows, like, for example, he went to Muktananda, who said the same thing that Nisargadatta said, but it was the way Nisargadatta said it that just went, oh, yeah.

Yeah. And it was like just somebody else that that reached him. Right. So Kat might say something that he didn't say that just. Right. So and you say stuff and you say things and you say like and everybody's got something to contribute. So just whoever just whoever has it saying, don't let anybody but the star speak. Well, I'm thankful that this star encourages everybody. Just just got it. Yeah. And then some people don't like it. And that's that's the right. Like it's not. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. It's not just me. That person didn't like anyone to speak. But me in particular, because I was speaking more when when I was reading the stuff from online.

I'm sorry. I just had to come. OK. So you want to. No, I'm done. It's been nearly an hour, isn't it? Hi. Yeah. We still have quite a few. Sorry. Yeah. Go on. I just have a question for Bob. I suppose just recently I got interested in the idea of the. I was introduced to Tony Parsons and I do like it. Don't listen to what he has to say about Bob and I can't tell you. OK. I haven't. Yeah. You can say what he wants to say, I suppose. Yeah. I like the. He sort of says that I was reading one of his books and I think someone asked about practice versus not practice.

And I spent up until recently. I just went on holiday. I do spend. A fair bit of time practicing and something I get up quite early to do. And I get that if you feel like it's me that's practicing, then you could be reinforcing the me. And I like that idea. But then Tony Parsons says he wants to clarify that he. He's not saying don't practice because it won't lead to anything. He's saying that there isn't a you that has any choice to practice or to not practice. Yeah. So whatever happens will happen sort of thing. What if what is your thoughts on practicing or meditation and if you do recommend anything, what is it?

Give me back the mic. Well, who's the practicer? The believed in person. So who's the practicer? Yeah. It's the one who's practicing. The believed in person. Yeah. How to question that. Is there a. A person. And we shouldn't practice, does it? It doesn't mean there shouldn't still be some sort of. Oh, well, I've practiced. It can't be useful. Yes, and practice goes on. So that's what you're moved to do. Don't take credit for it. Yeah. See what's not. You're practicing breathing, but don't say I do that. Yeah. It's life moving you to do that. Life moving you to jog or learn foreign language. Yeah. Or sit or stay or lie down.

And to me, practice or the techniques. So Bob is saying, you know, you're not going to be able to do it. You're going to be able to do it. You're going to be able to do it. You're going to be able to do it. Yeah. And that's what I believe. I am that. So for me, practice techniques. Just keep reminding us that we are that. Yeah. I am that. Just keep reminding us, as they say, meditation. That's the natural meditation. And that's going on all the time. Yeah. If you're supposedly, you know, you're not going to be able to do it. Yeah. Yeah. We're not.

But you are. And you are. Yeah. And you are. And you are. And you are. And you are. And you are. And you are. Yeah. And you are. And you are. Yeah. Yeah. And you are. the dream. Why you are imagining that you are somewhere else than right here right now? So you can postulate all sorts of situations. There is no future. But there is going to be a future tomorrow morning at 9 30 we're going to be meeting again on zoom. If you guys want to join us go to Bob's website and you'll get the link even though that's going to be now then.

I'll be in rehearsal learning 20 new songs. This conversation reminds me of how I used to annoy Bob and some of the participants. Maybe I was annoying today sorry folks. No, I was just trying to get some of the comments in. No, I was just trying to get some of the comments in. No, I was just trying to get some of the comments in. No, I'm not. Let's see. You can't completely negate the senses. The senses are all we've got. And then that was responded to. Yes, senses are all we are to start with and stories come later. Okay. Mind does not want to stop.

Stopping is death. It never wants that. That's fun game. Five takes one. It does not matter when you have gone beyond the mind as a thinker is absent. Thoughts do not have any meaning. Self is the meaning-giver behind the mind. Energy is only one pattern of maybe many. No concept, stories can explain the absolute. True. Also, great, and this may continue after death is what, um, Michelle responded to herself and she wrote, um. She answered with a zit. Hand, be quiet. When he screams it's my time. I элем, I, um. It's our time to handle that. It's personal. It's personal. The reason why I'm saying this is I mostly gave, and I'mlicher than I...

Uh. Uh. Uh. Um. But I know him with the milliards he and the others he don't do is. Uh, uh, or at his own Überstur Yea vegation. hand being cut off is just an example of the suffering of form due to the senses. Some people live with chronic 24-7 pain. If no sentence or form, then no suffering whatsoever. And then Kieran wrote, Kat has helped me so much more than people can imagine due to the way she expresses everything. Ditto! I need that as it resonates and resonates and sinks in. Everything we lose in daily deep sleep presence felt as absence. Similarly, nothing, I'm sorry, waking nothing expresses as everything.

Tanya wrote, thank you so much for this meeting. Much love and gratitude for you all, especially Bob and Kat. Just bought a Kindle version of your book, Kat. Bags of pointers to non-duality. Looking forward to reading and investigating with it. Kieran wrote, Bob and Kat, baby is coming tomorrow via C-section. Very nervous. Yeah, very nervous, but great to hear you both briefly this morning. Perfectly fine. Yeah, she said just, yeah, yeah, I did say take the drugs too. Bob and Kat, baby is coming tomorrow. See, very, let's see, Julia wrote, Kieran mays the body will not come out saying I did this. That's true. I made it!

That's right. That's beautiful. And I'm hoping I didn't, yeah, there's some other laughing, but I'm hoping I caught everybody's, I read, I didn't miss anything, but. Thank you. Stop, stop the world, I want to get off. Stop the world, he says, I'm getting off. Yeah. Becoming never happens. Anyone who. Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Kat. Thank you, everybody. I love this community. The community loves you too. And, and everyone. Thank you.