Sailor Bob and the group. Nonduality. The light of Life. 23 Jan 2021

There you go, Bob. Okay. What we talk about, we've been here before. It's the same old, same old. How could it be anything other? For what we talk about, non-duality. I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. All we do here is point toward and ask it, look to where we're pointing to. To see for yourself. See for yourself. The way we put it, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to the body-mind identity that you might believe yourself to be. I'm talking to that I am that I am. That I am is the sense of presence.

It translates through the mind as the thought I am. Just to this and nothing else. Because that is all there is anyway. The sense of presence. I heard the story that Cain Ponder described the elephant. One grabbed it by the tusk and said, well the elephant's like this. Another one's got to know it or not. It's like this, he's got a hold of the trunk. No, no, no. It's like this, he's got a hold of its ear. Another one's got a hold of its tail. And each one's got a different take on it. And elaborating it in a different way. But they're all talking about the one.

My ears are on or not, I've got the voice on. Does that matter? Describing the elephant. Yeah. So, there's not much use arguing about it. If you can all find something in common. Because the way you've been looking at it might be the correct way also. And everything is points to that. You've got to get something across. You all want to point to something. Go ahead, tell us about it. Listen to what's being said here. And got any questions about it, ask the questions. But what we point to here is the one essence. That's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as everything. And you are that.

That is all there is. And if, as they say, there is only that. That's the great mantra, I am that. And don't you know that. And don't you innately know that already. Because you say, that's the chair I'm sitting in. That's the carpet. That's the room I'm in. That's the tree outside. That's the flower. Everything is that which we put different labels or different words on. And it's discriminating it all with the word. The word's all pointing to the one that-ness of everything. That is all there is. And that is no shape, no pattern, no form at all. That's just what is. And we put words or labels on it.

How many words were you born with? Well you go back and try and remember. You remember you didn't have any words when you were born. And you didn't learn any words, do you? So you're about a couple of years old. And your parents fussed around you. And the first place they gave you the label, you were little Johnny. Or little Billy or little Jane or whatever. Immediately when you learnt words like I and me, I am little Billy. Or I am Jane. We've added that on. Are you without the word? You can say about it this. You can't say you are not. You can't negate your beingness.

You can't say I am not. If you're not, you must be. So you're already that. But we wanted a description to put in there. You're not on this beingness. And that's what we do with more words. I am Bob the Australian. The good fellow or the not so good. People don't like me. I'm doing this. I'm fearful. I'm angry. I'm unhappy. It's all through discriminating with the word. Now the word is not the thing. Have a look at the word. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? You can say water, water for the rest of your life. But that's not going to quench your thirst.

You can say fire. It doesn't burn you. You can't cook with it. So what's this word I or me? Is it this person? This separate entity? This individual? Which we've taken for granted with the words? Or is it that innate intelligence energy? The activity of knowing. Which is innately expressing through this pattern. Which you call the body and the mind. And that's what needs to be looked at. We've taken on this belief we're separate. And we've got a concept. Most of us have got a concept of some higher power. Or greater being. Which we call God or the Supreme or the Great Perfection. All sorts of labels we put on it.

But it's greater than I or me. So we say. We leave where I or me. And we're not too happy. With all the conceptualising and the thoughts that are going on. The telling me I'm not good enough. I'm fearful. Or I'm happy. And the worst one we put upon ourselves. Well after all I'm only human. We're not too happy with these words. And so we think we've got to become one. With this reality. This great reality. This higher power. Or greater being. Not realising that it's already and ever and only the one. Not two. There's not much use putting the label one on us either.

Because as soon as you're two. You've seemingly separated. There's an idea of one that must be other than one. That's what they call non-duality. One without a second. Not two. There's not even one. And all these patterns, shapes and forms in this room right now. All have our concepts, ideas and images. And we've taken. If you haven't looked into this and understood it. You've taken yourself to be separate. Not staying in that oneness they're pointing to. Is the absolute. It encompasses absolutely everything. They give it the term aware. Awareness. What of a better term. Anybody who is unaware right now. Can you say what that awareness is?

You can't put a shape or form on it. All it says is. How it expresses is the knowing. That you are. There's a knowing. Pure knowing there. And when it's translated. Translated into I am. Which is a thought. One of the words we've picked up along the way. One of the words we've learnt. And that I amness is nothing but the sense of presence. We take it to be me. The person. And where does that word person come from? It comes from the ancient Latin. Meaning persona. The mask. But when we learn words like I am. You can't do much with that I amness. So we put other concepts.

Other words on it. I am Bob the Australian. I'm a good fella. I'm not so good. I'm unhappy. I'm fearful. I've got no sense of well being. All these concepts. I put upon myself. And divided myself from being. The one. The non dual one. Into the many. We've moved away from what the ancients tell us. There is only the one. And you and I. And everything else is that one. And that's what we need to investigate. And look. Who. Or what am I? Well what's I am for a start of? Isn't it a word? What was there before I had any words? I didn't have any words for the first couple of years of my life.

Was I saying I am then? I certainly wasn't. Because I didn't have any words to label it. But I was seeing. I was hearing. I was tasting. Touching. Smelling. The thinking hadn't started then. The conceptualising. Because I hadn't learned any words. But I was living quite well. Without the word. Parents were looking after me. Being looked after me. And getting along quite well. And constantly. Being transient. Constantly changing. The body was changing every day. And it's still changing right now. That's what they call it. It's what they call transience. No static shape or form anywhere. And see this manifestation is constantly changing. Everything is transient.

There's nothing static anywhere. Hey! That gives us the idea that such a thing as time. But is there such a thing as time? If I ask myself what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. Well can I say it's good? Bad. Pleasant. Painful. Happy. Sad. Short. Long. High. Low. Wide. Or thin. Or anything at all without putting the word on it. But don't put the word on it. It's just as is. As is means it's unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. No static point anywhere. I can't think of the other things that call it power. I can't relate. Anyway. It's just the way it is.

It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. It's just the way it is. One essence. Pattern. Hiding. Shaping. Forming. Experience. Expressing. It's everything. But because I believe there's something higher or greater than it, that starts me on the search. The so called spiritual search. So we've split things up with the word. And we've got this thing, spirit, and then we think there's other things. What we're seeing is matter. So we've divided spirit or essence. Ok. into matter, spirit and matter. Spirit is essence, like the essence of a flower or something like that.

And matter is the same pattern, shape and form. And what separates them? We've got the concept of spirit and we've got the concept of matter. And when we believe in this concept, the same thought concept, which becomes mind or matter. But spirit is the essence of it all. And putting that concept on it, everything is that one essence that's pattern, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing, it's everything. And that's all you can ever be. So when you ask yourself what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it, you can't say. It's good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, anything at all without the thought.

But throw the thought, toss the thought away. Where are you without the thought? Well, have a look at it. Drop the thought right now, even for a second. Just leave it there, don't pay it any attention. Have you disappeared without the thought? Can you say, I am not? But can you say what you are? You can't say that either unless you put some glorified concepts on, some ideas or images or words. And then you can say, I am this, I'm this good guy or I'm this bad guy, or I'm a saint, or after all I'm an evil or a sinner. All concepts can be put on.

But without the word, what is it? How many words has nature got? Earth rolling around the sun. And is it saying anything about that? Is it passing this star now or that galaxy? Or this is the next one? It's not, it doesn't know anything about it. And like this light is facing towards the sun right now. And what appears, it appears to be daylight. We call it daylight. And when it rolls out of the way and is facing away, it's darkness. Does the earth know anything about light and dark? It doesn't. Light is just the absence of darkness and darkness is just the absence of light.

So even though they seemingly separate, you can't separate one without the other. There couldn't be light without darkness. There couldn't be darkness without light. And that goes for all these manifestations. All appearing to be solid, substantial and real. But they haven't got any substance or independent nature at all when you investigate it. So we've got mind, which is thought. It becomes sound, vibration and what we call matter. It's material, solid and substantial. And we take it to be so. So we start on a search, thinking, if we drop all these concepts I've got right now and look into it, not realigning it, looking into it with the mind, all I'll do is grasp another lot of concepts and go on doing that.

Realise that some of the things that the ancients tell us, the great perfection for instance, they call it the great perfection. Non-duality, one without a second. Not two. Pointing out that there's not two. It's not divided by words, concepts either. So the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any concept. Awareness without any substance or any independent nature. But when we put the concept, the word on it, it seemingly becomes solid and matter. But innately, when you look at it, you know it already in your mind. Because if somebody says something to you, can I do this or do that, and you're not too concerned with it, what do you say?

You'll say, oh, it doesn't matter, go ahead. As soon as you say it doesn't matter, what do you do? Haven't you let it be? You haven't taken it on board with the concept. You've let it rest in its absoluteness. When it doesn't matter, it's still at essence. Or another thing comes up and you say, well, I don't mind. And if you don't mind, you'll let it pass. As soon as you do mind, you put some belief in the concepts, take it on board, and you're in trouble with it. So there are a couple of things that need to be looked at and looked into, investigated.

We put the words on things and make them seemingly what they're not. And we put the belief in the word. Because we learn these words. We go to school, our parents will turn us words first, then our teachers, our schools, and then we start learning words ourselves. And we believe in the word. As I pointed out earlier, not realizing the word's not the thing. You can't drink the word water. The word is no thing. But we believe in it. And we say believe in it. What's that belief? Isn't it another word? Another concept? And we're saying the word is not the real. Have a look at that.

What's the dictionary definition of belief? Is it an unquestioned acceptance in the something, in the absence of reason? It means to say we haven't reasoned it out. We've just accepted it because we've heard it before and latched onto it. Acceptance of the alleged fact. It's an alleged fact until it's investigated and looked into, without positive knowledge or proof. Now, as soon as you do that, investigate some of these beliefs you've taken on, there's another saying in the scriptures. I'll tell you. The false cannot stand up to investigation. And that is the truth. When you look into all these concepts we have, they're false, and you investigate it, you'll soon see through them.

And you've done that already in this manifesto. If you go down to the ocean, I said, get a bucket of blue water out of the sea, what would you say to me? You'd say, don't be an idiot. Because you know the sea is not blue. Yet, you turn around and look away, it appears to be blue. But the water in it is not blue, never was or never will be. So you've seen the falseness of it, and though it still appears to be, what do you do? You know the truth about it, and you can say, well, it does appear to be so. That looks good.

But you know it's not the truth. I'll never get clear water out of it. The sky. You look out there on a fine day, you'll see a blue, what's seemingly a blue canopy, over the space. You say, what a beautiful blue sky. Go up 30 or 40,000 feet in the place, and you'll see a blue plane. Where's the blueness? It's still further out. It's not there. But we believe it to be there. Once you investigate it, you know it's not there. When people looked out to where the sea and the sky met years ago, they were told, don't go out there, you'll fall off the edge of the earth.

Because the horizon, where the sea and the sky met, it seemed to be the edge of the earth. Who would believe it today? The water in the Mirage. You're driving down the road and you'll see water on the road. You drive up to it, there's no water there. Next time you see it, it'll still appear to be there. You know the truth about it. There are so many things that we take to believe real, but when you investigate, they fall apart. So this thing we need to look at, we need to look at and believe in this, believed in personal self. Am I this person?

I am. Isn't it a thought? What's it represent? It represents the sense of this so-called person. I believe it being present and aware right now. I am this presence awareness. I can't negate the beingness, or the presence. I can shout it as loudly and as long as I like. I am not aware. I am not presence. I am not being. What does your innate essence tell you? Doesn't it tell you I am? I am before any concepts or words come onto it. And they're added onto it. So you are this pure I am-ness, or consciousness. Or awareness. Whatever you'd like to be. And have a look.

Can you postulate, or think, or conceptualise anything that can be outside of space? What would it be in? And you really look at that and you'll say, there's nothing there I'd say is outside of space. Because this room is in space. And I am in this room. And I am seeing the emptiness. The cognising emptiness. This is space. And the room outside this room, there's more space. Everywhere there is space. And the content of space is that silence. That stillness. That cognising emptiness. Which we're told again in some of the scriptures. It's a cognising emptiness. An emptiness that's suffused with cognising. Or intelligence. Or knowing.

And the Buddha stated that emptiness is form. Because it's forming all these shapes, patterns, forms. All the things that are appearing in that emptiness are nothing but forms. And those forms are emptiness. Emptiness is form. I tell you the form can be nothing other than emptiness. So, when have we ever moved away from it? When have we ever been separate from it? Could we ever be separate from that life or awareness? Ever at any time? Well try and conceptualise. And think of a time or believe a time when you'll not. You'll say there was a time when I was not, before I was born. You can't even remember your birth because you had no words.

And you didn't have any words for the first two years of your life. So you're saying I was not then. You couldn't say it because you had no words. But you couldn't affirm that you were either. So it's the words, the concepts that are putting all this time and space on these things. So emptiness is form. And form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So all this manifestation, the whole of this manifestation, appears in that emptiness. Because you cannot postulate or think of anything. You can imagine and think there could be something outside of that space. But then again, what would it be in?

It'd have to be in something. Is there something you can conjure up that's other than space that you can put everything in? Well I don't think the scientists or the physicists have found anything at all that could appear outside of space. Every Rhodes Scholar will work it out. You must be, and everything must be, this space-like awareness. Cognising emptiness. And that's silence or stillness. Silence is the absence of sound. Without the thoughts, without the word, without the vibration, can there be any sound? And what is sound? Noise. Concepts. Words. Images. Vibrations. All a movement of energy. The wind blowing through the trees, rustling the leaves will make a sound.

The air coming through that voice box will make a sound. These words are sound. Vibration. Energy. So it's all appearing as something solid and substantial and real. But its reality is the one essence, not the pattern, shapes and forms that appears and expresses it. They are the instrument through which that vibration forms a pattern and expresses it. This body is just a vibrating pattern of energy made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. All elements. Those elements who have broken down to subatomic particles, back to pure energy again. Now I use the term, I don't use the term God here, I use the term intelligence energy.

And when I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellect. Because your intellects fire up in a different way. But the innate intelligence, the knowing that you are, not the believing, but the actual knowing of that existence. And that existence is being, or knowing. It's energy. An activity. So that's all intelligence energy is, the activity of knowing. And that doesn't, doesn't that apply to each and every one of you now? There's no one here who's not knowing right now. That intelligence energy is not functioning in you. Back into that knowing that you are. You can't negate it. But now we've taken on the idea we are this person, this body-mind, this conceptual image.

And because it's a conceptual image and believed to be something other than the absolute, then when that capacitive reasoning comes on, and we look out there, and we've learnt the word I am, and we take it to be me, this pattern, shape and form, we look out there, and we see these other things, all these other things we're seeing right now in this moment. And when you investigate you say, that's not me. That's not I am. Because you investigate, you don't know what it is at that stage. You haven't learnt any words from it. But now when you say it's not me or not I am, what do you do?

You feel separate from it. And with that sense of separation, you're looking out there, little Johnny looking out there and he's saying, that's not me. I don't know what that is. This is mum, this is dad, this is some of the words I've learnt. But I haven't learnt what that is. So that's not me, it's not I. So naturally with the little bit of information he's got about himself, he feels very insecure or something he doesn't even know anymore. Voldemort. What can that do to me? It can hurt me. So I'm insecure and vulnerable. So that's when the sense of insecurity and vulnerability comes on us.

And that starts to get real. It starts to get reinforced by all these things, different things we are seeing and don't know anything about. So we start going to school, we get a bit of information. But mainly we get a lot of the wrong information, take the wrong concepts and ideas and beliefs. And it makes all this sense of separation worse. And insecurity. This is fear. This is anxiety. This is stress. This is guilt. This is shame. This is remorse. This is unhappiness. This is all happening to me. And what does that do? The thought, feeling and emotion are one and the same thing. When the thought's coming up, this is this and this is that, then the sensation comes up, the feeling.

And the feeling is that that's not what I really am. I don't want to be that. So then it gets into the emotion. And emotion, the thought has become emotional. The words become. They turn into anger, fear, depression, unhappiness. That's how they're translated. And that's what stirs up the body into the fear. So there's this sense of anger, sense of fear, sense of desperation, despair, guilt, fear. And the natural state, the non-conceptual state, which is everything is clear and pure and uncontaminated, we lose sight of it. And most of our life then consists of all the psychological suffering that comes up because of this insecurity and vulnerability.

So then we read in the scriptures about some of the ancients, that were unhappy with the state of affairs. And often say, well, there's got to be a little bit more to it than this. And have questioned it and looked into it and have a look at some of the stories of how they came about. And they learnt the words and did this and did that and saw through the time and the mind and the thought process and got to that clarity, that cognising emptiness. And let it rest in that uncontrived singularity. And the rest of that resting in that clarity. What happens when the clouds disappear in the sky?

Isn't there much more clarity there? And if there's clarity and no clouds in the sun, what can happen? There can be more warmth out of scared by clouds. Sense of wellbeing in that clarity. Sense of everything is okay. Nothing wrong anymore. And that affectionate awareness, you can call that warmth, you can call love, the natural compassion in there, you can call love. People have recognised that state and settled down and live in that. It's wellbeing. Nothing wrong. And that's another term of this thing they call God. There are thousands of different names, if you look in the scriptures, for what they call God. God's this, God's that and another.

And some of them will say, God is love. All this affectionate knowing in yourself, that compassion that's in you, have you recognised and grasped that? That is love. If God is love, love must be God. And it's that close to you that we put different words and different labels on it and notice, not notice the reality. When it warms the heart, and the entire conceptual image in the body, you get a different take on it. But realise, even though it might be obscured to some extent now, or obscured to a lot, that it's basically there. As the poet said years ago, it's closer to you than your breathing.

It's nearer than your hands and feet. We'll recognise that. What's closer to you than your breathing? What's there, when that thought is not there, when you breathe out or you breathe again? Isn't there a sense of presence there? A sense of being well? Being well, but you can't say it's right or wrong, high or low, or a little bit. But you must be that. What's the time going? That's a no. I'll give you all a go now, get into it. Question here from the online participants. Hi everyone, that's a question or comment from Jane. Brilliant pointers, Bob, so blessed. Thank you, Kat, for making this possible and for Bob generally pointing for 40 plus years, helping us to see through the lie, to rest of the uncontrived singularity.

Beautiful to live here. Yes, so that wasn't really a question, but thank you, Jane. Pure love itself, she said. Jane, and there was quite a few welcome messages. We have Estelle, Amarna, Cathy, Aaron, Sally, Rohan, someone called Non-duality Unfiltered, Primali, Dale, Tanya, and Caroline, Charlie, and many more who I don't see. So welcome everyone. And if there are any questions or any of you have any comments or would you like to contribute, because share something that someone else might hear, or anything at all sticks out, stands out, or would you like to dispute or argue about, thank you. That floor is open. Anyone? We have the mic here.

I have an observation. Oh, cool. I'll just pass it on to you. It's just a simple observation. You mentioned last week, Bob, how you don't get concepts until you have words. So babies and... You don't have concepts until you learn words. So babies don't have words. Yeah. No concept. Yeah. Concept. And I was reflecting on that because I look after my grandchild and how easy she was to look after before she... She learned to talk quite young, but she now has lots of concepts. I like, I don't like. I want, I don't want. And before that, whatever environment almost I put her in, she was...

She was just in a state of acceptance. And now it's really different how I have to interact with her and relate to her. So I just observed that from what you said last week. No, I just want to say that, of course, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be uncomfortable, you know, when they wet or they hungry, but that's non-conceptual. It's just like the body of any animal or any creature. If it needs attention, it will scream out for it. One way or another, it will attract it. But it is kind of more organic than creating the concepts. Oh, they don't like me, so now I have to either please them or I have to attack them or I have to do something about them.

Because that's all story. That's just unnecessary waste of energy and self-inflicted suffering. And it's not, when I say self-inflicted, it's not that there is a doer who is doing it. No, of course, it is a condition. We watch parents and society and we learn that other people behave this way and project those stories and basically just imitating it. And it becomes habitual. So nobody does that and it is still happening. And it is unnecessary because by seeing the way it is habituated and the way it obscures, like Bob was saying, when the sky is clear, there is clarity. When the concepts obscure it, the stories obscure it, there is suffering, there is uneasiness, there is conflict, there is relating it, there is conceptualizing that me to which it is relevant or important.

Yeah, that's how it happens. Nobody is guilty, nobody is doing it. And yet it can be seen through and really marvel at, watched as something completely impersonal, watched as just a passing cloud. And that's the freedom because in that, even if that paranoia happens, even if that obsession about future or past happens, it is not my obsession anymore. It's just a cloud of passing concepts which is ignored. And then they may stop showing up because everything needs attention to exist. The less attention they get, the habit breaks up. And over time, or maybe instantaneously, those things stop showing up and then life is very easy.

It gets really effortless. It really flows. So that's the invitation to really see what stops us right in this moment from experiencing that natural flow. What idea stands in the way? What idea stands in the way? Popular idea is, oh, I am not this yet. Oh, I didn't get that yet. I will get it in future. And there is no I to get anything. And there is no future. And there is no think to be got. They are all thoughts. And just seeing how they are all thoughts and laughing, that's just so light. It becomes so liberating. It becomes funny. It really is a cosmic joke.

And it is then recognized as a cosmic joke. And of course, initially it feels really serious. It feels like, no, no, of course, I feel there is a contraction there. And this is me. I feel that there is a me. No, there is no one who feels there is a me. There is a certainty of existence, absolutely. But why call it anything? Why give it the borders? Why say it ends where the body ends? Why say it is a thing? Why is it dislocated? Those are just stories. Initially, we are convinced, we are brought up in conditions to believe that that's the reality, that's true, that is my experience.

But when we look closer, we see that the experience, the direct experience, without having a story and imagination over, overlaying it, says nothing about having a body, being a body. Having a mind, being a mind. Direct experience does not contain those. It can't. Because those are images. Those are projections. I am, yes, there is existence. And now the projection comes and says, I am this. And not that. How do I know that? How do I know that if I push the thought aside? Or I see the thought for what it is. That's just a thought. So why would I trust the thought? Habitually. Habitually we trust thoughts.

That's just how the energy is fueling the creations. Thought is also a magical, mystical way in which that one potentiality of energy manifests. Yes, it also is a baby of the Absolute. But yeah, by habitually feeding that baby of the Absolute, that monster of the Absolute, or whatever it is, the judgment, is also another thought. It grows to be a cloud which obscures the clarity, which completely clouds that effortlessness, ease and joy of being. And it just simply doesn't have to be this way. Come on, anyone? Peter, you have some, please. Yeah, I will. Please. It might be interesting just to say there is awareness of this happening, whatever it is.

But it refers to no one. It relates to no one. This one that we think is the center of the universe clearly doesn't stand up to investigation. Have you investigated that? Yeah. What did you find? Say that again? Have you investigated the reality of yourself as this so-called separate self that really is a ball of swirling concepts that... Yeah, I have. Yeah, so I've touched into experiences. I've touched into experiences of... Well, saying going beyond the separate self doesn't make sense, but experiences of no... of there being no other. Like... Yeah. I'm really not talking about experiences. Right. All experiences come and go, don't they?

Yeah. Yeah. We can have mind-blowing spiritual awakenings. Yeah. And yet the next moment we're flat. And we all have experienced that, haven't we? Yeah. And if one doesn't stop, there that keeps on searching for this magical experience, isn't it your experience? It's certainly my experience that you simply get lost in this thing that has no end. There's no outcome to... There's no way in which I can actually hold anything because I am that which cannot be... be anything at all. Because all I can really say when I investigate this apparent self as being concrete is that it's completely ephemeral. I can't hold it anywhere. It's all...

I mean, all I really am is this, if you like, is a field of experience. All thoughts, all experiences arise somewhere, but I can't say where they arise. And so therefore I have no clear reference point at all about who I am. It's like the ideas rise and they fall. Everything rises and falls. There's nothing concrete here at all, is there? Really. So there's nothing to which this current experience really relates. And yet I... We are this... As a separate self-constructed identity, we seem to be this thing which is... has a definite reference point to which everything responds. But in fact we don't. As Kat was talking about direct experience, I like that, you know, that word for a moment.

It's like if we look to experiences, a collection of experiences or a series of better experiences which are going to illuminate the reality of a concrete self in heaven or wherever you want to see yourself to be, absolutely clear about everything happening, in bliss, then one is only ever going to come up with, you know, this ephemeral result again. There's nothing we can hold here, nothing. So, you know, we need to do that simple direct... simple investigation of our reality, our so-called reality. And the only thing that I can ever... In that simple direct investigation, the only thing that I have found is constant, reliable, always there, never changing, is this simple presence, this simple presence, being, I am.

And this sense of I am or this being, this is not different to the immediacy of the direct experience of being here. You can't deny that, can you? You're here, not in this room, but you are, you are a sense of presence. You have a sense of knowing. And that is a... I would call that a direct experience. It's not... It's not subject to or reliant on anything at all. It's just... It's just there. It's a spectacular but completely simple... simple realization, isn't it? I am here, now, present, aware. It all has any... any weight if we just simply investigate it. You know, this experience, this collection of experiences, you know, who hasn't had brilliant, magical, mind-blowing experiences?

Well, you have in the sense that you love your concepts, Terry, right? Now, when you... And as you experience the love of your concepts, there's something... There's an easiness about that, that... But it's not in the concepts. It's just in the beingness. It's just in the expression of... One thing I do know is I'm full of shit. And... But... Yeah, maybe you don't... You're full of shit too, but you don't know. I don't know. No. I can't help thinking that we're talking about the dream. And that... The dream seems... at times so close to reality that when I disappear, there's a point where you... you see that you can very easily disappear into the dream.

And I think that's why what we can call easiness or presence, Shakespeare calls stuff. We are... such stuff that dreams are made on. Dreams are made on the stuff. So the... the reality is the base. And we... We... in our... awakened state, we know we are that stuff. That... ineffable stuff. But... we're also very close to the dream. The illusion that... we can create so easily. And we... we slip into that dream and... take on whatever manifestation... we think. Just a little. Oh, thank you. I... I sort of see it like a very relevant point is... non-duality, what is it? I know about as much what it is as you do.

Nothing. And... direct experience. And... just a... an example of... that... that I can remember of direct experience. It's about a... a student, whoever, is walking along the road... and confronts a big river. And... and... and... he then... he... he speaks to the farmer who owns the land. And he... he asks the farmer, how can he get over this river? And the farmer says... that... if you listen to my words... he says, when you get to that river... you'll find out it's just a mirage. And there's no water in that at all. And he said, when you've seen that, you realise... that... my words will turn into direct experience.

When you see that. But even this still means very little. Something that meant a little bit more, seems to me. Direct experience... is not an experience of something. Of, you know, something... or some... you know, feeling, or anything like that. Direct experience... according to Nagarjuna... is the knowledge... and I'm not saying there is any knowledge... of the non-origination... of anything... in its intrinsic being. That's direct experience. It's the non-apprehension of anything. If... if I think I'm still apprehending things... or I have an experience... and a feeling... I'm apprehending something. I'm arriving at something. The only real analysis... a real analysis... the conclusion is... we'll finish up with emptiness.

We won't finish up with something. That's the... sort of a correct analysis... when we're analysing something. So, like I can hear you saying... we don't really finish up with anything. But... I feel like... I get more of a certainty... that I can't find anything. And... so there... you know, it's not... this is not dead... or sort of... nihilistic... and so on. But I... I reckon I'm a work in progress too. You know, sort of thing. There's a bit more to go on that. But... and if I can... I didn't think I could find this... but I thought it was pretty relevant. It's only about one minute's reading.

Is that... So... this was on... ... Yeah. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, this was about how... we seem to experience things... or what is this direct experience... and so on. And... this is... this is what... to understand... and... ultimate truth... not that there is anything... it needs to be distinguished from conventional. Conventional truth is truth about phenomena. So... conventional... just... ordinary conventional truth... is truth about phenomena that is inferred through cognition. When... conventional truth asserts... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that...

that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... that... It is the direct non-conceptual perception of the emptiness of phenomena. It is like realising that something you were looking for is not there and right then directly perceiving the absence of the object. It's like you know you put your car keys in the top drawer but one day you go and you open up the top drawer and the keys are not there and then directly perceiving the absence of the car keys. So this direct perception is a direct perception of an absence not a direct perception of something. It is called, non-conceptual is called prajna.

That's the word. Prajna is not the knower. It is the knowing of anything substantial. In a strict sense it has no knowing or knowledge. It is an insight that anything that shows up now I wrote all this so I think it's good. It is the insight that anything that shows up anything that appears or experienced or that can be identified is impermanent and is constantly changing. See all our experience if we have an experience even a spiritual experience all it is is something it's just something that shows up and anything that shows up is impermanent because everything that shows up is impermanent. So it's not a real thing.

But we think we've had a real spiritual experience but it's not because it's an impermanent thing. It doesn't have it. It's not a permanent thing. It also depends on other things. A spiritual experience for example depends on a body. If you haven't got a body you're not going to have any experiences. So these spiritual experiences are dependent meaning they're not independent. It's not an independent thing. It's just dependent. Everything that shows up is just dependent. It depends on something else. It depends on something else. So there's no real reality in anything. Everything is dependent on something else. Like a tree depends on branches, leaves and water and so on.

So there's no essence no real true essence or true nature in anything at all. And so in fact everything is empty of essence, self-nature you know self-nature substance you know reality and so on. And it's the realization that you actually can't comprehend anything. You know because there is no essence or nature there in anything to comprehend to apprehend to be able to say that's what that chair is. I'm able to find the chair-ness. And the enlightened people know this. They know that you cannot apprehend something like chair-ness or self-ness or anything at all. And that's the knowledge of the non-origination of anything. That nothing actually originated in the first place.

You know there was never a chair-ness or anything. So everything is just appearances. They are mere appearances. And that's another enlightened perspective is that realizing that things are just mere appearances. And they're nothing more than that. And so we now don't superimpose something else on them. You know like they're hard chairs or they're a lot big chairs or anything like that. I'll let someone else have another go. Um Yeah Bob you said something. You have to do what Tom's what do you know get stuffed. Hahaha I was a man of the stuff. Stuffed up. Good. Stuffed up. Yeah. All we need to do is get stuffed.

Yeah he was a Shakespeare or someone says it's a stuff. I wanted to just tell you a little story which I was actually thinking a couple of times before but the energy didn't move this way. When you say Tony about you know finding or focusing on absence. This is all obviously very very helpful on the on the stage of investigation when you see everything is impermanent everything is interdependent and it's. Yeah absolutely. The thing is the focus actually and this is the little story. There was a guy here that used to come for years. He moved up the coast as soon as I have arrived because he didn't have to look after Bob anymore and check if he is all right.

Bill I'm talking about Bill and if you are with us Bill we love you. So he was saying a little analogy about he was building the house and he was putting down the foundation. Peter you might have met him in Bermagui. Our friend. Bill I think you did anyway. Yeah yeah yeah gorgeous gorgeous energy pattern. He was laying a foundation of the house and it was a wooden foundation and he was convinced that that might be a termite there. So you have to go and check for the termite and then he went and he checked and there was no termites but then he slept overnight next morning he woke up and he says well but you know what better double check.

Maybe they are termites. So he went and he checked and no they were no termites. And then he made some protection spray it or whatever. The third day he went again and check termites. No no termites. And he asked himself a question. How many times more do you have to see that there are no termites. You know you perceived directly the absence. How much more you got to focus on that absence because there is still me focusing there trying to find something trying to get something. Knowing something understanding something. I know there is impermanence. I know there is no termites. I know there is no self.

No no no. This this is the question of focus. If the attention is laser sharp on something trying to get remember understand have. There is always a question. Who is it happening to. What's really going on. Why is that centralized attention. Is that any. There is no movement of any imagined self there because the attention the way it flows in nature it doesn't need to focus unless it needs that for survival of the of the machinery. Other than that it can be totally relaxed like Bob often points just relax into non conceptual with five senses wide open. So there are sounds there are sides. Everything is nicely processed.

But you're not obsessing about focusing. Oh are the termites. Are there any self or is there permanence or is that. It is basically processing concepts is still intensely focusing in the mind while the non conceptual awareness is that witnessing space like consciousness in which that focusing happens. If we can see now that focusing if that focusing can be cognized can be noticed. The chances are. That it will start. Relaxing because as you say Tony you are a work in progress. How many times do you actually really do know it. You know everything is arising interdependently. You look for the self you haven't found it. You know that yes everything depends on everything else not just on the body but on the sunshine on the sky on the food on the you know every experience passing phenomena that depends on the rest of the universe.

Now holding that knowledge in the head. Now holding that knowledge in the head. Now holding that knowledge in the head. Now holding that knowledge in the head. Focusing the energy the attention in there and missing out on that basic space like the last alive less in which life just flows. There is no need to remember that oh yeah there's no me there's no me there's no me there's no me oh I am I am I am now the energy goes to the conceptualizing thinking planning when it is required by the one unit environment and the body are inseparable. No the energy goes to the conceptualizing thinking planning when it is required by the one unit environment and the body are inseparable.

No. If environment demands it, the body will respond it without any controlling, without any effort needing to do that. Although I say it again and again, thank you, it is very, very helpful for the investigation, everything that you're pointing and highlighting. It absolutely is. The question is, is that going to be a work in progress for 20 years? It may, it is still giving people some sense of joy or some sense of fulfillment, but it just doesn't have to be this way. Once the movement and the tendency to work it out in the mind is recognized, it naturally relaxes. Once you see there are no termites, you go ahead and you find yourself building that house.

See, what I'm saying is getting rid of concepts. You haven't heard anything that was said. It's eliminating the concept. I remember you telling me how- And I don't, I've said before, I don't have any views. That's why I can't be faulted. Now well and truly, you don't want, everything I'm saying is only, it's just a remedy. It's not, there's no truth in what I'm saying. It's just helpful to eliminate conceptualization. And then once the, once the- Once that's happened, you've arrived at the other side, so to speak, with the raft, and you don't carry the raft around. So you've got an idea that I'm carrying a raft around.

And if I say I'm a work in progress, I mean, that's just a, that's just conventional saying, you know, and so on. And I will continue to say that, you know, without any problems at all there. It's true. You know, once the, once the medicine has done its job, it's no longer a medicine. So you don't have to keep taking the medicine. Any idea that you, you know, but the whole, the whole focus of this is eliminating conceptualization. Because conceptualization is what, is what, is the root cause of suffering, and so on. And, and so on. But, you know, I'm- Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, you know, anyway, that'll do.

The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. What more do you need? Can you say that again? Say that again. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. What more do you need? A couple of more. Don't have to be talking about it all the time. I'll play it. It's there in that sentence, what you just say. The, you know, the non-conceptual awareness, I would say, is the, the knowledge or the understanding of the non-origination of anything. No. That's- No, that's concept. No, that's concept. No, that's concept. Yeah, yeah, okay. I've said my thing. We've, we've- We all agree to disagree. Yeah, the silence. No, but then- Oh, no.

Then you're trying to describe what non-conceptual awareness was, so you're moving back into the story again. It is all helpful, you know, for those who actually need it. It's very helpful. Absolutely, yes. So I have to say, I think, you know, I think that, you know, I think that, you know, I think that, you know, I think that, you know, I think that, you know, I think that, you know, we have a few comments. We have thirty people around with us. So I'm just going to include them a little bit. And- thank you Tony, it really is helpful. And it is on the ball. It's absolutely beautiful.

And this is of value, it's a great value. And now we have Tanya. awareness is just this with no words labels appearing no thoughts right now but seeing hearing and sensations are appearing without labels all experiencing is non-dual but only the thoughts make it seem like it is like it is not right yeah Tanya you always have a good way of putting things in words Julia says have you ever seen a toddler hold a grudge the toddler hold a grudge beautiful and now Amarnath says there is no relation between self and thoughts screen never gets affected nowhere and known our notions self-inquiry blasts it yes and Sharon says I like that a cloud of concepts passing Amarnath there is nothing called unnatural at all everything is in natural state only which is stateless state beyond words and thoughts there is only awareness neither concepts nor non-concepts ultimately beyond a prior to everything we perceive nor verb non-verbally and Amarnath says thank you beautiful Peter no one meets no one there is only non dual awareness Amarnath says thank you beautiful Peter no one meets no one there is only non-dual awareness playing on itself without player and I'm enough also says thank you Peter there is no apparent self at all source of appearance and disappearance no one holds nothing and of course a lot of smiley faces and hearts and Ralph sending heart and I'm enough most of the times we call there is direct and indirect experience but it is also notion there is only non conceptual awareness all direct is indirect and indirect is indirect only and I'm enough also says there is only self which is already realized no non self or non realizations only a notion there is neither desert no mirage water no mind at all and and Jane says to use a metaphor you could say awareness is the sky and the clouds are the thoughts thoughts or clouds come and go the sky or awareness is constant it never changes the habit of the alleged me is to like one thought and not the other interestingly the thought of me is just an erroneous belief in persona of leading image we have about ourselves a memory of ourselves just a memory of the past and the present and the present and the future and the future is a thought the thought is never the real when seen on the sky of awareness just another cloud cloud passing by beautiful I'm enough all labels and thinking is both phenomenal and non phenomenal when there is no label or thinking is non phenomenal with thinker or label is phenomenal both learning and non learning our feminine phenomenal and learning and learning my help in the beginning eventually lost everything there is no I know where there is only simple knowing without nowhere and Rohan says beautiful cat even the focusing requires me to focus then there will be an effort to try and get something in frustration when that something is not attained but it is thoughtlessness peace etc Bob emphasizes unfixated awareness so often yep and Tanya says I just realized I'm still trying to work it out in the mind thank you for illuminating pointing cut and Amandine says read the reader listen the listener think the thinker investigate the investigator it is not the answer is important but non-phenomenal recognition and Catherine says the seeker appears to be in truth there has never been a seeker and this is from James yep and there is some link to something but we'll find it out thank you so that's it we are on with the online people so Andy would you like to give us something you just wrote this beautiful book which I started looking through, you must.

Well, it's all about this stuff too. That's it. Yeah, that's what we want. We don't want anything else. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's lovely to be here and sharing this space. Thank you, Bob, for keeping this all going. And, well, the undual experience of being is foundational of everything. There's nothing else in a way. I mean, you still have to watch out for any dog shit wherever you're walking. But the phenomenal reality is, is subsumed in a much, well, an infinite experience of being. And the thing is that we get trapped in phenomenal reality and concepts. And so we miss what is unbelievably obvious, unbelievably present, ever-present.

So, yeah, yeah. I think that's... Thank you. Thank you. That was wonderful. Thank you. I love you. You're incredible. You do. No, really, I really do. I love you. Because you are arising, you know, in consciousness. Like, you know, that's the absolute beauty of it all, isn't it? It's like... There's nothing to prove. Nothing to prove. I don't have to have a better idea about anything to... Nothing can negate this direct experience for any and all of us. Isn't that true? Yeah, it's like... I think all we need to do is just let all things move through you, right? Relax. Let all things appear and move on.

All these thoughts that arise about me. You know, I'm full of shit. I know something. They're all just thoughts arising. And there's emotions around that. Oh, fuck, I just make a complete dick of myself. Or, you know, I've got some good idea. I feel really proud of that idea. Or I'm happy. You know, I'm really happy and feel... Kind of, you know, exalted about, you know, people making comments about how I've, you know, been performing here, so to speak. All these thoughts that are moving through. And they relate to no one. Really. They appear to be about a me. But in truth, they are just thoughts arising.

And they're all exquisitely... Exquisitely beautiful. You know, the appearance of... It's Terry, isn't it? Tony. Tony. Sorry, Tony. Terry Swine. You are the guy that whispered the secrets of meditation into the Buddha's ear. You know, it doesn't matter who, how you manifest, huh? But, yeah. So, in this experience of just letting things come and go, all kinds of, you know, amazing stuff appears, doesn't it? We all have... We all have these incredible lives that we try to explain to other people. What Bob's offering here is something extremely simple. Extremely simple. It's not complicated at all. It's absolutely so simple that, you know, most people just gloss over it.

One more thing that's coming up here. I'll just wait for a moment. Yeah, this is different. It's... It's... It's extremely simple and extremely easy. It's probably... It's a lot simpler than trying to keep on working on being something. Being something. A devastation. Field of devastation that has been for most of us, I imagine. This that is being offered here is simply recognising that you are that in which everything is occurring. And that everything that is... that is occurring in this vast field of unlimited oneness that we are, or one unlimited awareness, is made of awareness. Is made of this stuff. You call it awareness, but it's...

It has no label. It has no... Because every time... There's no... Yeah, we're always... There is this temptation to grasp something, you know? And say, I know. I know. I know this. I'm the thing that knows. Yeah, but that thought has already gone. And it's... And the recognition of this. We are... It's a bit of a devastation, really, because everyone comes here, comes to these things under false pretenses. You're all... Everyone is coming here, right? Wanting a better... A whiz-bang experience of some kind. You want to... You want to realise, you know, something better about yourself, huh? Or some truth that you've... You want this experience to come forth and go, whoa!

Isn't that... No, that's not... Oh, that's great, yeah. Yeah, tell me otherwise, yes. That would be good. Often people come for that. Yeah, yeah. But it is... Yeah. Yeah. I don't seek those intense experiences. But those intense experiences have shown me something about myself. So they are of value. What have they shown you? I'm not my body. I'm not my emotions. I'm not my mind. And it's only through direct experience of quite... You know, what you might describe as quite intense spiritual experience, that I've really got that. It wasn't from reading a book. Or, you know, I'd heard those words before. But until I had that direct experience, which for me was quite intense, multiple times, that truth of who I am became real for me.

But it's not something that I seek. Yeah. It is something that just happens spontaneously. I was seeking when it happened. But, yeah. Just a question. I have a question. Well, you're not your body and you're not your mind. Are you separate from your body? Are you separate from your mind? Do I have to answer that? You can just say I don't know. Well, I'd say no. Bob wanted to say something. I just want to quote a couple of words from the N.C. Ming. The more you talk and think about it, the further away you wander from the truth. Stop talking and thinking. And there's nothing you'll not be able to know.

And I have one more comment from online. A couple more comments from people who are with us. Tanya commenting on what Jane was saying about the metaphor. She says, beautiful, Jane. That really resonates me. It really is just a thought, a passing cloud. Thanks for pointing out that no thought is better. Better than another thought. They're all just thoughts, concepts, and not reality. And then now Tanya says also, thank you all for this beautiful meeting. Heart has shined from clarity on a topic I have been looking at for a seemingly long time. You can't be that which is changing transient, but you are that also.

Love you all. And now we have more messages of love you all. So I love you all. And thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.