Zoom meeting with Sailor Bob and Kat, 4 Jan 2022

We've got past the new year and what's left? Isn't it now? Try and get past the now. I want it pretty hard. Presence, awareness. No one is unaware right now. That presence, awareness is your true nature. You really are. Presence, awareness, awareness is your true nature. It's your true nature. It's seemingly expressing through the pattern, shape and form that you call me. What good would that expression be to you if it wasn't for that? Presence, awareness. It is animating. It's living it. It's breathing it. fingernail. It is and we call it I or me and that puts the brakes on it, puts the limitations on it.

Instead of I as the absolute, it's become I or me, this separate entity, this individual, this person has had a rough trot, things haven't been too good for them, doesn't like this, doesn't want that and this happens. All these stories made of words, thoughts, ideas and images come up and we get locked into them out of the habit and believing and we're locked into them and follow the thoughts, feelings and emotions, thinking we'll come to some conclusion, what does Nisargadatta say about them? He tells you a quiet mind is all you need, once the mind is quiet everything follows by itself and that needed to be looked at.

When I look back on it, I see there were long periods of time when the mind wasn't quiet, all sorts of things were appearing to go on and happening and occurring, causing all sorts of emotions, feelings, thoughts, and all these emotional things like anger, fear, depression, guilt, and I continued trying to get the answer. I continued trying and belief that the answer was there. And I only needed to recognize or repeat or look, and I would find it. And that continued belief and trying, it's not allowing the mind to rest. Let it be. If it's left as it is, it settles down. And today, these days, long periods of quietness, it's no longer like you, and it's no longer chatting, no longer carrying on, no longer trying to become or fix something.

And the step was tried for many years, never ever worked. It's with the seeing through all the chatter and the conflict and the angst and everything else and leaving the mind, the so-called mind, and the rest and relax. There's a recognizing that in that silence, in that stillness, in that emptiness, there is a life, a knowing, which I call, and others have called it awareness. There is an awareness of being, a basic beingness. There's awareness of being, and that awareness of the being, without any of the concepts, ideas, and images, it is a sense of wellbeing, not being angry, not being fearful, not being into some story or convoluted story or argument, just leaving it as it is and being well.

Nothing wrong. As the psychiatrist says again, you can only put it negatively. There's nothing wrong. So instead of trying to hang on to the good, he's letting you know quite plainly, there's nothing wrong. The so-called seemingly bad is not wrong either, just as it is, it amounts to nothing if we're not putting the concepts or labels or beliefs in. So the struggle goes out of them. The fight goes out, right, I've got to maintain this belief. I've got to keep recognizing and realizing the true nature. I better not do that. Do not think that or activity, or not understand that or recognize this. Leave it, leave it as it is.

As it's rising, it's coming up, as thoughts, feelings, emotion. Who is it? Who is the thinker? And the belief has been, that I am the thinker. I am the knower. I am the one that understands or is aware. That's been believed for years and years and taken to be learned. And he looked at and investigate and tried to recognize him, what is exactly, till finally registers in the realization. But there's no thing, hasn't got any substance, hasn't got any independent nature. It cannot stand on its own. It's just the vibrating energy that comes up as thoughts, feelings, emotion, words, that we've learned. I can remember when I didn't have any words.

I knew anything about it. I can't tell you much about it. It was a knowing that I was there at that time. I couldn't say much about it because I didn't have words to express it to you or explain it or say, this is how it is. But the life was there. The animating intelligence energy, the life essence was there. It was functioning. It was functioning as words, as thoughts, as ideas and images and given a personal take to them. This is me that's doing it. This is me that knows all this. It is me that's going to be come something or get something or something because it's not good enough the way it is.

I am unhappy. I am feeling unhappy. I am fearful. I am anxious. I am angry. Like and dislike. Sad, sorrowful, remorseful, guilty. Not much well-being there. Not much being well. Because it wasn't given a chance. As soon as the thought came up, this self-help, yeah, but what if? Why? What do I do next? What's going to become? If this happens or that happens? The story would start. And that story made of words which had been picked up along the way discriminated. Instead of leaving it just as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, the story went on and on and on and gathered momentum. Where from? From all these ideas, concepts, images and beliefs that were stored in that memory.

Came about years ago and were remembered and stored. And of course, when there was any looking or investigating into that storehouse, there were myriads of different things that had come up and pushed the so-called presence, awareness, the night. Further and further into the background. Making the believed-in conceptual image be more prominent. More prominent. More realistic. I know. I can do this. I can change things. I can alter the world. I can do all sorts of things. But what happens when it didn't come about? Where did all those positive concepts and ideals and images go? They went back into the depth and I was pushed into a background of more thoughts, concepts.

I'll try harder. I'll think this through. I'll recognise it. If I do this or do that, repeat it, do some other magic and reason it out. I'm intelligent, so I can reason it out. I will become what they talk about. Enlightened. But who is this I that's trying to do it? What is I? This I that's become prominent, seemingly running the show. What is it? Is it me? This person? This individual? This, not only person, but this suffering person? An unhappy individual? Is this what I really am? When I read some of the scriptures and listen to what the teacher of the time was useful for me, told me.

Saying, start from the fact that you are already that. What is the that he's talking about? You are already that great perfection. You are already the absolute. Start from the fact. That's a fact. Where are these stories going to appear? They appear in that conceptual image. And just reinforce the conceptual image. Now it seems more real than it was before. And naturally it seems more real than it was before. There's more frustration. There's more fear. There's more anger. More depression. More guilt. And more unhappiness. But they talk about enlightenment. Talk about freedom from the known. Talk about the great perfection. And the absolute. Well, where is it?

Why haven't I picked it up? I've been looking. This morning. I've been utilizing this seeming knowledge that I know. And I've got all sorts of thoughts and concepts about it. But on investigation, these concepts and thoughts don't stand up. They let me down. They fall apart. And I'm left in deeper problems and troubles than I was previously. But then, have another look to what i'd taken to be the truth when resonation with it and resonating with the teach so-called what appeared to be the teacher and knowing the one that was knowing and listen to what was being expressed there and it was being expressed totally differently instead of repeating this mantra war word or going into that going into that start from the fact that you already are that that is all there is it's only the one essence and the basic teaching of the so-called hindu teaching of 90 duality because i am that you are that and that is existence consciousness bliss nama rupa the five factors no and have a look at that what do you do to do about your existence right now you have to turn to learn it or acquire it or pick it up or isn't it a basic fact that i am existing right now well i don't know about what do you think that is a fact as far as i'm i'm existing try and stop existing i'm not going to take a gun and put them ahead and forcibly find out what's there without thinking and let's let us let us thinking what's going on right now is that existence is soft it doesn't it continues with every breath I take.

It continues with every thought that comes up as loudly pointing out its existence, its existing, its existing. Am I unconscious? Unaware? No, I'm not unconscious. I'm not unaware because these thoughts are still coming up and going on. And the focus is not going into them as much as it was. It's not troubling me to the extent of that. But seeing that I'm not unaware and I'm not unconscious and knowing that, seeing it as the truth and recognizing it, well, naturally it becomes more pronounced and the thinking and the feelings and all the going on fade away to a bit more extent. They're not so pronounced anymore.

And there's more room for the blissful, natural, spontaneous functioning to go on. Am I stopped being? No, I'm knowing and I'm here. I am being this entity, seeming entity or this pattern, which I've got all sorts of descriptions on and names as well. But is the livingness, it is the life of this pattern? Am I in that life? Well, why not? Recognize it, know it for certain and give credit to it. If that life wasn't there, how many of these thoughts or feelings that you're disturbing me could I have? How many concepts? How could I say it was unhappy or depressed? If it didn't appear in that life, what must I be?

The thoughts, the concepts would go on madly. But if it's recognized, the less energy that's put into them, if they're left as they are, they settle down into a steady, non-conceptual, pure knowing, which is freedom, as Krishnamurti said, but freedom from the known, which is freeing me from all these non-conceptual, known or believed in concepts when I'm holding me, and it keep me bound into. Instead, when they come up now and are seen for what they are, left as what they are, they settle down. They fall away. You know why? Because there's no energy of belief put into them. They're seen for what they are.

Thoughts, feelings, emotions, religions, about the concepts, ideas, images, all appearing in the life. And if life is all that there is, and when they tell me in these texts and scriptures that there is only life, there is nobody who lives a lie, and I've seen in this seeming body that I believe is not what I am, and I must be that no body that the life is expressing through and patterning through. I can't be this body, this conceptual image that I believe. I am no body, no mind, no pattern, no shape, no form. And I look out there and we've got what we call the space, the silence and the stillness.

And see, there's all sorts of patterns out there, all sorts of seeming separate entities and beings, not one or two, but myriads and myriads. Can I discriminate or attach to any one particular one? I can grab that tree out there, what can I do with it? And I realise, what is it? I can grab that tree. And I see that we're in the nature right now, that we're, you know, the nature's been cut off by the same kind of state of being. It's been broken down into wood. Wood's one of the elements that talk about in the temple. And the air and the life and the sap that's going through it are all elements also.

And all those elements could be broken down into purer energy. And this body's made out of other elements. Earth, fire, water, space. So if this belief that I am this person, this conceptual image, come to all of us, is not image as Bob the Australian the good fellow and all the other concepts and ideas if I am that what are they made up of words what are words sound what are sounds vibration what's the vibration the movement of energy so can I say I'm a body can I say that a mind is this body when I can break it down into vibration into elements into energy what can I do with energy can I grasp it I can recognize it I can recognize that these words coming out of this mouth now they're only energy but which word is the real is there one of them real energy is an activity a movement and which one's staying around to stop the activity not one of them don't fixate on any of them where must I go back to that which I've been avoiding the silence back to that stillness back to that sense of presence it's not a moment ago or not a moment in the future it's presently happening right now it's happening as these words as these thoughts as these feelings as what's going on outside this apparent body and the wind that's moving the trees and the flower the birds are flying around it the cars are the three by on the road is any one of them static they're constantly changing and is this body static I just took a breath a movement a lung full of air and does that stay there no it needs to be breathed out what stays there the only thing that stays there is some thought or concept that I've fixated on and holding there well this one is real this one I've got to do this or that and the fixation and the belief that the same in keeping it there it becomes a problem now I believe I am that thought it's not a good thought I need to get rid of it and to get rid of it I've got to fight with it let me come in conflict with it I haven't realized that there's no thought in all these years I hadn't realized that there was no thought that is static in the body and every thought comes about hangs around for a while and moves on there's nothing static or solid at all the same thoughts can come up and seem maybe because they're not let go out with the air they're still held in there can cause all sorts of havoc all sorts of problems and then the understanding comes from somebody like Shakespeare and four or five hundred years ago, God even knew it.

But he says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes us that. He's pointing out that this thinking is a problem. And when he's pointing that four or five hundred years ago, do you think it's changed? If it was a problem then, when we didn't understand all the words, we understand now, maybe it's a greater problem today. And the only way it can be a greater problem today because the energy of belief, that energy which we now have taken as a belief, I am this person, I am this person, taking it to be real. And I've got to change. I've got to do something about it.

And see with those thoughts, what am I doing? I'm not enlightening. I'm not changing the concepts of the mind by getting rid of the word. I'm hanging to the word, hanging onto it. And trying to make it into something that's real and solid. But having luckily and fortunately investigated the word and seeing that the word is not the real, it's just a concept, just an image believed in and a vibrating pattern of energy. Like all this thought or that thought or this feeling or that feeling. Take it to be real. And that energy of belief going into it, it's seemingly real. And I looked at it and investigated it and didn't take any notice of it.

So I'm not out of the trap while the belief is going. Still in the trap of the word. And whose word is it? It's my word. It's my thought. It's my feeling. It's my emotion. Who's this me or my that I'm talking about? Well, that's a good one. It's me, Bob, the Australian, who's the good fellow. Who knows this and knows that and likes this and likes that. But people don't think he's good enough. He's having a bad trot. He's not liked or doesn't like this one himself. And things are happening to him. What are these things that are happening? Are they anything other than thoughts, concepts, ideas and images?

Which, because they haven't been fully investigated, the words are seemingly real. Seemingly real. Because today I know that the word is not the thing. The word is not the real. The word never was a thing. The word never can be or never will be the real. And so in knowing that, there's a freedom. Freedom from the belief in the conceptual, in the words, the thoughts, the feelings, the emotions, the stories. Or freedom from the known. Because all these thoughts, feelings and emotions are something known. We believe we know. And the title of that book becomes true. There can be a freedom from the known. And the other one, self-realisation.

Through seeing with naked awareness. We're looking to realise this believed-in self, which we take to be a separate personal self. And they tell you that self-realisation is the answer. And they say it's through seeing with naked awareness. What is naked awareness? Anyone unaware right now? No. I'm aware. Well, how many concepts have you got unaware? I'm aware of this, I'm aware of that. Aware of something else. Through non-conceptual awareness. Drop the concept. Drop the thoughts, the feelings. If I am awareness, I am awareness. All stop. That awareness is first. And then on it comes the consciousness. And on the consciousness come the thoughts, the feelings and the emotions.

They're all coming from that non-conceptual, ever fresh, presence awareness. This awareness is immediate presence. Not the past, not the future. Not the presence in a little bit of time. But immediate presence. And the realisation, the recognition, the seeing, that this naked awareness is seeing, it's hearing, it's tasting, it's touching, it's smelling, it's knowing. Basically, it is the knowingness. Any one of you who is not knowing right now, and if you're looking at it, you must admit, no, I know. There is a knowing there that I am. I might believe I am the body of life, but I am. That sense of presence, which expresses through the body of the mind, is the tool I am.

And I can transfer from that believing that I am into the knowing. And I am that. And that's the great mantra. That is that. Everything is that. There is nothing other than that. Have a look around you. What do you see? You see the chairs in the room. And you know that is the chair. You see the space in the room. That is space. You see yourself sitting in the chair. That is me. You look outside and you see that's the tree. That's me. Everything is already that. And what is that? The word. The sound. The vibration. The movement of energy, which we take in the word, the sound, the vibration, the pattern, the shape and form, to be real.

To be something. When we believe the word to be something, that awareness is no longer naked. It's mentally constructed. The thoughts are thought. confused with feeling, knowing and being and that's not it. And the thought will continue until it's looked at again. Is a thought the thing? Well, if I drop that thought right now, what can be said if I'm not thinking? The thinking stopped. When there was no thinking, there were no words. There were no concepts. I didn't stop seeing. Didn't stop hearing. Didn't stop breathing. Heart didn't stop beating. But the thoughts, amazingly enough, had ceased. And again, right now. And again, they start again as soon as some concept or idea comes to mind.

But get to my point. I think that's where the silence and the stillness is. If that's there, what else is happening? Can I say there's fear? Can I say there's anxiety? Can I say there's depression, guilt, shame or remorse? Sure. I can shout them as loud as I like. But was it a fact? No. The fact was there was an absence. Of all those conceptual images. They weren't far away. I can easily see the last one again. But in that pause, there was just a zero. The zilch. The presence of awareness. The presence or knowing of that awareness. And that awareness is being. The knowingness itself.

Knowingness or beingness cannot be negated. Prior to thought. Prior to concept. It's not too far away. There's a poet, I think it was. I forget what his name now. One of the great poets said, it's closer than your breathing. It's nearer than your hands and feet. Have a look at that. And you might be breathing might be poor for a minute. What's the closest thing to you? Isn't that knowingness? It hadn't disappeared. Hadn't moved away. Was basically there with the thought or without the thought. That knowingness. There were no concepts going on. No labelling or imaging put into the knowingness. So there was a freedom from the moment.

There was a knowingness without. And that freedom is the life. The essence. The being. That this. Is what I am. And that. I am this sense of presence. It comes more apparent. Each and every day. Every time. It is looked into. And recognized. And recognized. And becomes more certain. More absolute. That this is the reality. The rest. Is conceptual. Comes and goes. And if they're not fixated on. They're not attached to. They're no problem. So they're not the big enemy and concern. They appear to be for years. When there was an attachment to them and a belief in them. And they hung around for days.

And months. Somebody called me a bad word. I'm saying. I'll get the so-and-so and blah, blah, blah. And carrying on a big story. The story. Is made up of words, concepts, ideas, and images. And I am not the concept, word, idea, or image. I am that. Again. In the recognition and seeing that. There's a pause. There's a stillness. And that is all there is. Right there. Which. Thoughts, feelings, emotions. Fear, anxiety, and all of this can appear on. If I go back into indulging. In the word. But I don't indulge in the word. What's there? Well. What? When you say my silence sings. And listen to that silence and stillness.

And there is something about it. Well-being. If everything's okay. The silence. My emptiness is full. In that pause. You have to fill it up with thoughts. Or be the emptiness. Singing. And full of the song. Of life. The heartfelt. Emotion. Reality. That you are. So go for it. And. If you don't. That's. Enough from me. I'll put Kat on. She'll. Add something to it. And feel free. Ask questions. And if you don't have any questions. Point to what you've grasped. Or understood. Because you've all had. It's all closer to you. And you're breathing. Nearer than your hands. And it sings. So. So go for it.

So. And, I hope you've been. Good. I've been. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Has Bob. Extinguished all the questions and. Because that's the biggest problem. People have. Issues or are not sat on. I'll struggle with things. And then they listened to Bob and everything. Next day or next hour, things come back and Bob's not there. I mean, he's always there, not perhaps in the middle of the night, but he's always there. So if there is anything that perhaps troubles anyone, maybe that would be a good time to bring it up.

Hello, can you hear me? Yes, yes, go on. OK, fantastic. All right. So I came across the non-duality a while ago, but I suppose I was not ready to understand. And I've been really diving deep into it for, I think, three months now. And it has changed my life or whatever I call life and has been preparing me to. Now, one thing, and that's the second time I hear Bob. Speaking in your cat. So one thing is that. I understand all of this, that we are one. And even if we go to the science, we see that our bodies are molecules. Sorry, cells, molecules and atoms.

And then if we really had a huge magnifying lenses, we would see that we are all the same thing. Yes. So we are. We just saw the one that I get it all. However, what Bob just said now that about the labels, about the words that we give and that we are that. I. One thing is that and I and I and I understand that. But one thing is that doesn't this concept of we are that? don't give labels and and i understand how like how how how this works but doesn't this make us people with no feelings you know because i i am and and and getting to that uh i know that with the feelings we can be very very happy and then something happens and we can be very very sad and i understand like it being a matter of five minutes depending on what happens and then this is what uh i believe bob is saying that uh the label and we are dead however isn't it um say what is the what is the point of knowing being alive if we can't really have that huge laugh or or or have that really like build uh um build um dreams again trying always to live in the present because the present is all that is um but whenever you you have a win let's say that in your day or win in your life or a milestone being happy about it doesn't thinking that we are dead like make us like this is this is this is what is what is the word i forgot like doesn't it make us people with no feelings i i am afraid of that so um over to you thanks beautiful beautiful question beautiful description well it's a very thinking that causes the problem because we're already that and and we have feelings yeah have feelings that didn't divide into the opposites you know how it would be can it be good without pain you can't can it be pleasurable without pain so they've all got to appear but they're probably not they're not they're not they're not they're not they're not they're not they're not allowed to be in your environment they can have to pay the cost of living in order for them to make a living their own İYI An gagan constant unless they're keep coded and they do not realize that they can make that decision that's right you have to believe him and i think i'll translation them of the reasons and the ihp,, you drive him to go on such things perhaps in his real life hasn't been it's still a reality pain is never easy body instead of leaving it as it is unaltered unmodified and corrected doesn't mean to say that the pairs of offices won't come in but we're going to say that we won't seemingly attach to them at times in the very attachment term it's recognized that it's not me it's the attachment how it is and this crowd is never looking outside in nature the same thing is happening when you go outside in a cloudy day the clouds have obscured the sun but you and i know that the sun is not obscured instead of saying all the sun's gone the sun's gone and if we know that the sun is behind the clouds and when you look into it and realize that the sun itself has formed the clouds the sun shines of itself and in its radiance it evaporates water and that evaporated water condenses as it comes up and goes down and form goes back into water again forms a cloud then goes back into the water which goes back into the ocean well same with the thoughts and the feelings and emotions they come up and we take them on board and they do what see those clouds that came down as rain did a good job did something to do those thoughts that need to do something will do it the thoughts we fixate on and you don't go into the head with and hang on to today's weeks and burn them are not necessary the suffering is not necessary to the extent it goes on because who does it go on with we go on with the other seeming entities we take ourselves to be a separate entity an individual not a person we don't take ourselves to be the absolute but with the sun in the clouds the clouds the condensing evaporated the water will condense back into the water they're doing what they need to do and they're not fighting with one another and look what happens with us we're in conflict with one another there's certainly and that's not necessary either when we understand your true nature and life goes on quite naturally and effortally and it will still appear in all of our diversity.

The saying is know the truth and the truth will set you free. And what is there to be free from? Just the belief that you are the person, you are an individual, you are the separate entity. You've taken yourself out of the absolute, out of the reality and put in the boundaries and conditions and patterns on yourself which are got you in bondage. Also the idea that something can be lost, like the joy can be lost upon this, like throwing away the lie that there is someone there because basically non-duality says the natural state being us in nature is something that we were born with.

Every creature has Buddha nature, the dog, the child, everything. And now on that we imagine that there is somebody there, we call it ego, we call it soul, or we call it spirit, or we call it me, that there is someone living there and that someone has free will, has shame, fears, anxieties, that some little entity inside the body or inside the mind, suffering little entity, exists. So the moment we see, we look inside and we see there is no one, there is just life doing everything. There is no little me growing the hair. There is no little me thinking thoughts. Once we discover that this little me is only a story in the head, we also discover that it has always been only a story in the head.

So if you had feelings yesterday and today you discover that these feelings belong to the body-mind responding to the environment, not to that me, that imagined little dwarf or whatever it is, that imagined little creature, then you realize that you had feelings yesterday, you had feelings 20 years ago, 40 years ago, you will always have feelings because feelings are part of the whole makeup. Just like the animals, they don't imagine to have an ego and be guilty or be responsible or be suffering. Let's say if you look at the dog, a beautiful little creature with a lot of feelings, how happy is he? How happy the dog is when it runs and greets the owner?

Oh, what a happy little thing. Or cats. We have a couple of cats. They may seem upset at times, you know, like one of our cats is really fat. So I try to sometimes take away the food before she eats for herself and her brother. Well, she doesn't look very happy about that, but she doesn't have a story that, oh, the world is against me. I'm unworthy. Nobody loves me. I feel incomplete. This is what we call psychological suffering. If the dog will be thrown away of the house and will become homeless and it will wait and wait and wait for the owner, it will really look very upset, but it will be just a habitual action.

There won't be a narrative as far as we know, the neuroscience of the dog's brain or cat's brain. They do not hallucinate separate entity or the cell. They don't have a story about the poor me. So really, the investigation breaks a pattern of psychological suffering. It doesn't promise that nobody will ever leave you or you will not have the feelings. The feelings will not arise if something goes missing or something, someone slap you in the face or do something. The feelings are totally there. It's just that those feelings don't belong. They don't belong. They don't belong. They don't belong to the ego, the impersonal feelings.

And especially if no psychological suffering happens, let's say I'll go to work and I'll have an accident on my on my motorbike and then there is a pain, there is a feeling of pain, there may be resistance to pain because that's how the body is conditioned. But the story that, oh, my gosh, how did I deserve it? I must have been something bad in the past life. Or maybe somebody cursed me or maybe God doesn't love me. That's. This stuff doesn't arise anymore. And even if it does, it would just basically make me laugh. So this being human is even more because without that narrative of psychological suffering, there is more quiet here.

And now you look around and you see all the child has fallen. You find yourself going and helping it or the animalist there is. It's naturally happening because I'm not busy obsessing about the poor me, constantly narrating. how things should be different, how I should or have to fix myself or do something to feel better or different. Life becomes much more simple, like for a little child. Child is playing, is curious, is open. Definitely take away a toy and a child will scream their ass off. But five minutes later, it's gone. It's a new moment. So it doesn't really deprive anyone from being human, from having human interactions, human feelings, human joys, sadnesses.

But they are more of part of the happening and they are not carried on and refueled by the by the dramatic story about poor me, unworthy me, incomplete me, unhappy me. It's more like a like a. Like an animal in the nature kind of. So that that that is just so, so clarifying, like so clarifying. Have no idea, Cat, what you and Bob just explained to me. Thank you so much. So in summary, and see if please, if I get it right, you're still gonna have feelings. But don't be resistant to the feelings and don't have a story behind it. Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you got it.

Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. Now another question. Can I ask another question? Please, please. Please. Yeah, sure. So another question that I find very hard. And again, the what Bob said, the truth will set you free. So even when I was a Christian still like 15 years ago, and I'm not saying for anyone here not to be sorry. But when I was 15 years ago, I and I then I stopped being a Christian. I I had this verse from the Bible that was very clear to me. So you know the truth, the truth to set you free. So I really like that. Now, with knowing the non duality, and it's really helping me with.

There's just this moment is that I've always always in my life. Being a proactive person. An extremely proactive person. And some sometimes what came with that is that I I'd be planning the future too much. And before, and of course not leaving the present. Before I even knew about the illusion of free will. I agreed with it. I, as in, I sort of had this in my in my consciousness that hang on. I plan all these things they they happen. In different ways. But I I I I never could help. Being proactive. So I was always planning being proactive and and doing things all the time.

Very energetic. But I I always knew that things were going to work different ways from what I have planned in a lot of times, not every time, but in in a lot of times. Now, with the whole. With the whole. Being proactive and and and and planning planning your life, and I struggle with the planning your life and being the present. I'll give you an example right now. I really really want this job. It's happening now. I have an interview for the thirteenth, and I am studying like day and night. I I do have a job now, but I want this other one. I do like my job now, but I really want this other portray.

So i'm studying day and night. I can't help that. And the thing is that how do I understand? How do I understand? Oh, yeah. So what happens that as I'm planning as as I am? I studying for this interview. I can't help thinking of when I get that job. I simply can't help that it's very very high, and then I try to focus. Hang on live here. It is here that you are studying it's it's it's in the present that you are going to achieve the future. But then it it it it throws me back. It throws me again to the future. So I I struggle with still being a proactive person and still having plans.

They don't even have to be career plans. It can be travel plans. Yeah, and and I think that the whole planning travel plans are not happening. Happen to most of us. So how how do I reconcile the living in the present? But still being able to plan, but not living in the future. If there is an answer for that. Thanks. That's that's a beautiful question also, and it also has very very simple answer, because if there is no you. Then there is nothing that the you can do apart from just being conscious of what's happening. See, I used to be very very future oriented as well, and I still have a great capacity to organize things or plant things.

They just go. They just fall through me, but I don't take any credit for it, and i'm aware when every action is happening. If the action of planning or the action of calling people I still work. I visit people. I help people that all that is happening. I schedule Bob's Skype calls them as well. This is all seemingly relating to the future. But there is no engagement with the future per say. If the thought appears that's not my thought. I didn't start it so I can't stop it and there is nothing wrong in any sort that appears like. If I am the open space and that's what Bob is saying.

I am that you are already that you are the absolute. You are. the life essence, the energy that is breathing you, beating your heart, this is who you truly are. Not that little me inside. That little me may imagine that, oh, maybe I can stop going to the future, or maybe I can try and be more in the now. But that me is not real. So it can't stop go to the future. It can't try being in the now. It can't do anything because it is imaginary, it is illusory. There is nothing really that can be done and there's nothing that needs to be done apart from the plain recognition.

Oh, there is a habit of imagining future coming up. Oh, interesting. Okay, good. But nobody says this is a good habit or it's a bad habit. There's no seen in any of it. And of course, the situation is different if that causes immense suffering. Let's say you're preparing for the interview and you have the habit of... Visualizing the outcome, which perhaps energetically may even positively influence the whole situation. That's how life is expressing through you. I had this intuitive behavior always. My career was totally unimaginable and impossible. And I had this dream about being ship's navigator. And intuitively, I was seeing myself in it already and it happened against all odds.

But as I learned, I was able to do it. I was able to look back at that. I know that just how life played it out, how life unfolded. Luckily, there was no one there to disturb the life unfolding. So if that is how the life is orchestrating your dream job or whatever, you are the no think. You are the space in which this is happening. You don't have to stop it, start it, only notice. Noticing is the only thing that space might be doing. Although space is not the only thing that space might be doing. I'm not saying that it's the only thing that space is doing.

I'm saying that all space is not even doing it because that space is conscious. It is the space like awareness, we call it, or there is being, knowing and loving to be. So in that space of conscious awareness, noticing happens. You are the noticing and you already pretty brilliantly notice the pattern, what's happening. You are preparing for the job and you've caught yourself fantasizing about maybe getting that job. That's harmless. I mean, there's a lot of people who are fantasizing of not getting the job and getting totally anxious and terrified and miserable. Thank you so much. That clarified so much to me. And last question, and it's okay if you say no, I can see that it's being recorded.

Is there any way that we can have access to this recording? Because I just don't want to forget what you just said. Of course, of course, I can send you a link. I can send the link, maybe. Gosh, how am I? I can put it on my Dropbox. And if you either put an email or maybe send an email to Bob, his address is on the website. Yeah, then I'll copy you that link and you can download it. Fantastic. I can't wait to see it. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I can even, yeah, I'll sort it out. I can even send a message in the group.

But yeah, I'll find Bob's email. Thank you so much. I've really struggled with these two things. And it is just a relief. I've been really set free from a lot of my problems that I carried on my shoulders for years and years in the last months after I really decided to go deep into the non-duality. Thank you so much for your meetings. It's really helped me. That's actually wonderful. I just add that one thing that you understand, as you said, you've looked through and you understand that there is no such thing as free will and no such thing as doing or doership. If you really follow it through to the end, you see that you can't even fix yourself or improve yourself or change your behaviour patterns, because who you are doesn't really need fixing or changing.

You are the absolute opposite of what others see you as someone who is cooked for, who is specifically going to the streets. the absolute and if the body is conditioned in this way love it as it is it's it's nothing wrong that's how life is dancing to dance that's the costume that life is wearing to see to experience to express itself nothing needs to be fixed did you wanna no that's beautiful i oh sorry i thought you would dance to this thank you so much thank you yeah they're beautiful questions and we are very grateful for every questions because otherwise i just kind of tend to repeat what pop already says and always sit in silence it's always good to have a direction i had a skype call in the morning uh from a young man who listens to bob and he says i didn't experience being sky like awareness or space like awareness you know i get all that longevity it is all clear but you know and he asked me before a couple of times because he's really totally studying the book that i published recently on box teaching and he says well if the movement of energy is not that space like awareness because when i you know when i try and sense my being i can sense the energy moving i can sense the muscles i can sense the body i can sense the consciousness in the is in the body i say no you can't you can't sense the body the body is only image that you're projecting on the plane movement of life and that's correct being is not the movement of life movement comes and goes sometimes the movement of energy is not the movement of life is very strong let's say if you are angry or furious that energy is buzzing like a volcano erupting like a thunderstorm like a real high waves shutting at one another the energy is very almost you can't miss it and sometimes when you're very relaxed not much is happening in the body the energy is very subtle you can focus the all of the attention let's say on the where the lips are touching and then you can feel the sensation but if you don't have an image that their lips touching you can't say their lips you can't say you have face you can't say you have body because only thoughts are telling you that without the thoughts in direct experience being cannot be sensed in any way the only the only thing about that being is that it can't be denied either you can deny that you now the body because cells are changing and the size of the body is changing uh it's been different when you were a child it's going to be different when you get old it's changing every day you you know your thoughts because those are changing you know your feelings because those are changing you're not your self image because self-image also is changing you're in a good mood you you think you're right you're in a bad mood or someone hurts you and you think are you worthless all this is changing you're not the energy because energy sometimes is high sometimes it's low but the being the screen or that empty space in which the thoughts the feelings the bodies the energies the self-image they come and go that never changes that is always there but how can i grasp it i can't grasp it because i am it so how would i grasp it i would have to stop being it and then i'm not grasping it and i'm not grasping it and i'm not grasping it and i'm not grasping it myself i'm grasping something else so it can't be grasped the only thing about it is that it can't be denied everything can be denied can be questioned but that being can't be questioned for the mind it is nothing it is emptiness that's what mind calls calls it nothing when nisargadatta says when i'm nothing this is wisdom mind says i'm nothing so that the least of aliveness of being in the experience of the dualistic computer here instrument it is nothing so there's no point trying to grasp nothing it's ungraspable it's nothing to grasp but at the same time if not for that nothing if not for that sense of presence existence there is no experiencing there is no love there is no life so it is really something that can't be denied but it is a prerequisite for everything else even though it is nothing it is a nothing with the potentiality of everything it expresses us everything so i told him look the bad news is you will never be able to feel space like awareness or sky like awareness because there is nothing to feel there is no feeling in that if you think that bob feels like it or that's you're a god you know what they say it's all up to you that's it's not yes i uh do i feel like it no i feel like it no that's not this is this is just a metaphor this is just the way we presented we say empty screen or we say absolute or totality or i am and those are all wrong neither of it is that bob calls it intelligence energy which is a brilliant way of calling it because pattern how incredibly intelligent it is but still calling it even calling it intelligence energy now this is it i can say i am intelligence energy and then someone on skype call will tell me yeah but i don't feel that i'm intelligent energy and i tell you something i'm polish in my language it doesn't even sound that nice because it's much more harsh language so it isn't any of the labels or descriptions it is the very very thing that has always been there that is closer than your breath that is so intimately there the heart of hearts the the very aliveness the most intimate feeling of existence deliciousness of aliveness that cannot be extracted that is there nobody even in the in the deep sleep even when the The memory of that is not there, because in the deep sleep the mind is creating different worlds, different reality.

So it doesn't attend to this one, although it is in alert enough that it wakes up when necessary. But it doesn't create memory the deep sleep. There is no memory, so it can't be related to us an object. Even without the deep sleep, nobody remembers of the being. We only remember every memory is of what's changing. The context, the situation, even some people can memorize their own face or their interactions. But not the being. The being is completely transparent. It's invisible, untraceable, unsensible. It's pre-sensory. Oh yeah, go on. Hi, good evening. I just want to say thanks to you guys and thanks to Bob for saying, you know, for...

I didn't realize it, but it hits me earlier when he said like, first establish that you are already that, you realize that. Because in the past few days, or maybe weeks, what happened is that I knew that there was this... Something... Something... Something that's thriving, although it's lurking there, but in a very, very subtle way. And I knew then when you said like, you first established that you are already that. I knew that it was the me, the ego that's trying to, you know, go get into point A to point B. But you said you are already that. There's nothing to fix, you know. And I was just like, yeah, kind of open my...

Yeah. A bit... Yeah, there's a bit of a light to it. Because also, yeah, and... Yeah. I remember that also that in his first book, also Ramana said that realization is nothing to be gained afresh. It's already there. And I just completely missed that out for the last, you know. And then now, Bob's speaking that. And yeah, it's just reminded me that the I here, or the me, is it's nothing but a story created by all the experiences every day and then somehow make it into your brain and stuck in the cells and memory. But it's just a story. You know, there's this subtle way.

And when I become conscious, then it's the ego, it's the me. It's feel like... It feels like, you know, when you are humble and no one says you're humble, then, you know, like, and once you're conscious that you are humble, then you are not humble. You know what I'm trying to say? So it's something like that. So it's very, very subtle to me. But in fact, it's quite difficult. Actually, it's quite a little bit tricky because we are going to the realm of religion. Like enlightenment. And that's where it's somehow you can't, you know, it's not, you know, the more you're trying to be, you know, pious or something then.

Anyway, so but yes, you already like that. And it's just like a load has been lifted. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for highlighting that. That's the heart of the message. There's nothing to be heard. There's nothing to find. There's no one who is seeking. There is just a story going on. You are already that. Everything is that. There's nothing that's not that. And just see what obscures it. A story. That's the only thing that appears and disappears on that. That's beautiful. Yeah. If that, yeah, if that's kind of dawn on you. Wonderful. You can see how the body may still be trying to be pious or humble or whatever, because the body has been conditioned to follow social order.

But you're not doing it. The body is habitually doing it like Nisargadatta's body was habitually smoking bidis. He wasn't doing it. He wasn't smoking anything. The life doesn't smoke. But expressing through the body and as the body, it appears as a body smoking bidis. So if the body is, let's say, practicing kindness, doing good deeds, because that's its nature or that's its conditioning, you are the space in which the body is doing whatever it is conditioned to do. And you are free from being the body conditioned body, not conditioned body. You don't have to fix the body. Then you don't have to stop or start or try because you know that our space as that.

You don't really. You're not the doer. Life is dancing, is engaging everything. Like the body is engaging with the environment because it's not separated from the environment. But you are the same. You are that awareness of what's happening. Always and ever already. If you had the story before that, oh, no, I'm not that open space like awareness. I'm just a little me who is trying to do the best I can. Yeah. Good. That story is also noticed. Now, this part of the appearance in that open space of what you are already already that body appears trees, buildings, other people, thoughts, thoughts that I'm trying to do my best thoughts that I don't know what's going to happen.

All of them appear just the same as the room, the computer, the feelings, all of them up here. And you just see the beauty of the of the incredible. The incredible display magnificent way of expresses. So mysterious, so fascinating. You see, the body is going to respond to something in a way. If you are not the body, if you are the pure awareness, you keep discovering fresh and new moment, fresh and new behavior, fresh and new feeling without relating, translating, interpreting. And if relating, translating and interpreting. Happens. That's just part of the display. Part of of the magnificent show. But you are you are free.

The truth that sets you free. You are already that. That's the truth that sets you free. Recognize that and enjoy the ride. Humility. We can be proud of that. Humility. But the true humility is when there's no one to be either proud or humble. Yeah. And that being proud of the humility is just habitual narrative. All our values are the most cherished beliefs, philosophies, viewpoints, opinions, attachments to diets or political standpoints. They're all just habituated narratives. Neither of that is really our own. They were all sum total of the influences of the teachers, school societies, culture, weather, diet, climate, all of it. The whole universe creates that particular attraction in that particular body to that philosophy, opinion or taste or music or.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yesterday, before you realized, there was no one there either. There's no, there was, they have never ever been any self ego or separate entity there. So if you were a decent human being 10 years ago, five years ago, and you have the tendency to strive to be as kind and as sweet and as helpful and as dear, well, that's probably a tendency that is gonna carry on.

But without self-hatred that comes from the narrative. And only have the biggest chance to blossom. That's what happens. I love when Bob explains it. Very often people imagine that enlightenment means that I'm gonna be holy. I'm gonna only have positive thoughts. I'm gonna be only loving the words, everything. I'm never gonna have any sense of anger or any emotion, negative emotion. That's a beautiful sales pitch dream. Completely unrealistic because cats, dogs, trees, parrots, flies, mosquitoes, they all respond to the environment in dualistic way. Sometimes there's pleasure, sometimes pain, sometimes cold, sometimes warm, winter, summer, day, night. And the normal response to this pleasure or discomfort is some sort of, this pleasure or discomfort it may cause anger it may cause any other movement of energy which we later on label but what happens when psychological suffering is lifted what happens with the like it's just so intuitive when you see a person who has a very heavy burden of oh my god everybody hates me i'm so ugly i hate everyone i'm suffering so badly i feel like a dog with herpes that wants to bite everyone else so they suffer with me or you have someone who is light and just feels like sharing a joy like just ah oh you you got your dream job how wonderful i'm so happy for you that's what happens naturally when that heavy burden of psychological suffering disappears the natural joy and natural benevolence natural well-wishing comes up because there's there's no suffering so there's no need to make everyone else suffering there's no idea that people should not do better or that's what happens naturally i can you remember how you actually express it because it's such such a good one-liner oh i know if i don't have a concept that you are superior and i am inferior what what would i ever want from you why would i need to go and burn your house or attack your country take your food take your gold why would i need to have steal from someone or hurt someone if i am already complete i thought i saw someone on mute no yes so it is it is really simple realizing that there is you are already that you are already complete you are already perfect you are already clean translucent transparent full of light and love empty space there's nothing that needs to be fixed even if the body is perhaps too thin or too tall or too slim or too fat and the mind is too busy or too always using habitually swear words or smoking cigarettes or whatever it is you are already complete you are already complete you are already complete whatever it does who you truly are is untouched by the behavior of the body or the habits of the mind i'm forgetting it go on yeah i think yeah i i i think i understand what let's see what krishna miss chris morty said like there is no um psychological evolution which bob said you are already that but it's a bit tricky because like outside on the outer world you can see that there is an evolutionary process like a child going to teenage during becoming an adolescent or the other apple going in with us in a few days or you know you see the history that the change but in our psychology man's psychological psychology there is actually no psychological evolution from going from better to becoming good but you're already that i think so yeah it's well said so yes i think i understand from krishna with this perspective but thank you that was really good thank you yeah the clear empty space cannot evolve clear empty space that you are how could that change or or become something different or better the body can the character i see there is uh some message here oh no i think it's just go to run oh yes see you tomorrow adrian no he's gone yeah i think it's time yeah thank you all yes thank you thanks bob and cat thank you so much thank you so much have a good evening bye you too bye-bye