This manifestation is transient. Sailor Bob and Kat on nonduality. 26 Dec 2021

run through the spill the same old same old I can't teach you anything here and we can't tell you anything what we do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to to see for yourself because no matter what you've ever been told or believe there's nothing that anybody can ever give you and nothing that anybody can ever tell you just no matter of recognizing and understanding your own true nature we base it on what they call the ancient Hindu tradition tradition of non-duality if we get the name but now does colors hmm and write a non-duality that and beta translated with non-duality and they try to describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second it's not two not even one so that's why I can't teach you anything so I'm not speaking to anybody I'm not speaking to any mind I'm speaking to that I am that I am that I am is the sense of presence that translates or expresses through the thought the mind as the thought I am just to this nothing else so if you've got some conceptual image of your about yourself and think I'm having a go at you or something like that I'm not just speaking and ask you to look to where we what we point it to and see for yourself I got this idea we are these human forms or persons separate entities individuals but at Veda non-duality one without a second they point to there's only that the one essence patterning shaping forming appearing and expressing as everything and that has no shape no form no beginning no end pure being or life itself or whatever words you put on to it and the words we use are not the real you're not the thing You can take the word water and speak it for the rest of your life, but it won't quench your thirst.

The word fire doesn't burn your mouth. So what's this word I or me that we talk about? Take it to be a personal, a conceptual image. And where does that word person come from? It comes from the ancient language Latin, persona meaning a mask. Seeing we've got a mask or a conceptual image we've put upon ourselves, which is hiding or disguising our true nature. And they call it ignorance in the scriptures. And a lot of us make the mistake of taking them to believe that they think we're dull or stupid and ignorant. But they don't mean that at all. I mean we are ignoring our true nature, the natural state, and focusing it to the spiritual.

It's this conceptual image we've taken on board, the belief that we are this person, this mask, this human body, mind. And taking it to be real. But it needs to be investigated. And that's the one thing we point out, that the false cannot stand up to investigation. And you know that already, because how many things in this world have you investigated that are taken to be real when you look into them and say they're not? If you go down to the ocean and I say, get me a bottle of water, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea, what will you say to me?

You say, no, no, don't be an idiot, because you know you'll never get any blue water out of the sea. But you turn away, look away from it, and it appears to be blue. The same as space. Space is empty. It's silence. It's stillness. And this room is space. Go outside and see the blue sky. That sky is space. In the distance it appears to be blue, but you can go up 30 or 40 thousand feet in a plane, there's no blueness coming into the plane, so it's not blue. The water in a mirage, these are other concepts of images that we point out to see the analogy that we're pointing to this idea that we see, the things we see are as they appear to be.

But then they'll tell you, the Advaita, they say it's, the five factors are Sat, Chitta, Nanda, Nama, Rupa. Sat is existence. Chitta is consciousness. Nanda is loving to be. Or bliss of being. The Nama, Rupa, they say, the name and the form, the Nama is the name and the form is the body. The body-mind are Maya. They're illusionary. They're only a vibrating pattern of energy that seems to be real. And actually this manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary definition of phenomena, the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So this manifestation is all appearing to be. It's all seemingly so, but when you look into it and question it, it's not how it appears to be.

It is the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, and the body. Displaying and everything. They call it Shiva Shakti. Shiva is the static aspect. And they say Shakti, the consort, his concept is a dynamic. Shakti dances or vibrates. And the world appears. And that's all this world is. It's a vibrating pattern of energy. In the emptiness. It's an empty form. It's all emptiness. Buddha told you that. He said emptiness is form. Called it a cognizing emptiness. We think we cognize the emptiness. We don't. The emptiness is doing the cognizing itself. It's the fuse with that innate intelligence energy. It's cognizing. He made the statement that emptiness is form.

And he turned it around the other way and said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. And when he's talking about that, he's meaning that all this pattern, shape, and form, all this manifestation is still that emptiness. And see that's so too. Because what's it all appearing? It's a wall. The whole manifestation is appearing in space. What can you do with space? Can you postulate or think of anything at all that could be outside of space? What would it be in? You can say, oh, there are these other planets and things like that. Well, what would they be in? They'd have to be in space too.

And how many spaces are there? And it's only the one. Space is the only thing. It's the only thing in space. It has no substance, no center, no circumference, no beginning, no end. It just is. So they call it space-like awareness or the absolute. And that is all there is. It's all absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. It wouldn't be absolute. Or as they call it in Buddhism, the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away from it? But they give it to you in one sentence there.

The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That's Sat Chit Ananda, existence, conscious bliss, we were talking about before. Have a look at that. Are you existing right now? Of course you are. Are you conscious right now? You're conscious. You're not unaware right now. Are you happy to be? Yes. You wouldn't be dead for quids. So you are already that. What is the need to search for anything at all when you are that already? We've taken on the belief we're this person and we think we need to become complete, whole or total. But you'll never become anything. But you cannot negate your being. And that's another way of putting Sat Chit Ananda.

Being, knowing and loving to be. Anyone who's not being right now? Anyone who's not knowing? Anyone who's not knowing right now? No. You say, I know. And you love to be right now. You don't want to be quit. You don't want to be dead right now. So you love to be. But we call ourselves human beings. And if you believe in God or something or other, you call God the Supreme Being. What happens if you take that word Supreme off? Take the word human off? Try and separate the being that's right now. Can you say you are not? No. You can't say you are not being.

You can't say you are not being. You can't say you are not being. You can't say you are not being. You can't say you are not being. You can't say you are not being. You can say it. You can shout it out from the housetop. But what's enabling you to say it? That beingness must be there or you wouldn't be able to say it. So that's what we point to. The fact that you are already that. And that is the great mantra. I am that. Thou art that. This is that. And innately you know that. Because you say, that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room we're in.

That's the carpet that's on the floor. That's the tree outside. That's the space. Everything is that. And you're not that. You're not that. You're not that. You're not that. You're not that. You're not that. Which we put different labels or names or other names or forms in. How many words were you born with? You weren't born with any words. So how can you say you were born? You can't say you were born because you had no words. You don't know anything about your birth till you were a couple of years old when you learnt words. And realise that every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to say, you've never spoken it.

But every word you said to milk, let's speak, has been picked up along the way. And we've learnt many words. And that sense of presence — the knowing that you are — translates through the mind as the primary thought which is I am. A sense of presence is I-am-ness. But we take the I-am-ness to be the person — the body, mind, entity — and get lost along the way because of that. So the person trying to become something. It'll never happen because the person is a fiction. It never existed. It's all the one essence that's patenting, shaping, forming and experiencing as that. And you are that essence already.

You are that life. Take the life out of that body, what have you got? You'll have a corpse. Now the corpse before it rots or breaks down has still got the eyes, got the ears, the heart, the lung, the kidneys, the liver, all the organs are there. What good are they to it without that life animating it or going through it? Just like your computer's got all that wonderful, amazing information on it, but if the power's not turned on, what good is it to you? No good at all. So what must you be? The thing or the power that's animating it? You must be that life itself.

And that's what Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about him. He wasn't. He was talking about that sense of presence, the knowing that you are that expresses through the mind as the thought I am. That's the life itself that's expressing that. That's all life is, the pure, what I call, I don't use the term God here because it gets infused with that term, because we all come from different traditions and all the different traditions will have different labels. Labels and beliefs about this God. Hindus have a thousand names for Vishu. The Jews will say, hero Israel, the Lord thy God is one God, there's none other.

The Muslims will say, there's no God but God, Allah is his name. Christians say it's omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. All labels they're putting on the one essence. And in the Bible it tells you, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all that God is, is a Word. All things were made by him, by the Word. There was nothing made that was made without the Word. Isn't that so? The tree, the flower and everything like that, they're all things that are appearing in this manifestation. Now space is no thing. You can't find any centre to it. You can't find any substance to it.

You can't find any... background to it at all. It's no thing. But we think it's nothing. Before we make the mistake, we think it's nothing, zero, zilch, a vacuum, a void, but it's not. It's no thing. It means it has no pattern, shape or form. And you and I and all this manifestation are no thing, appearing as something, which we put the word on. We've labelled all this manifestation to discriminate it. We've put the word on, taken it to be real. But really it is no thing because it can all be broken down into that pure intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing. Another term for intelligence is knowing, not the intellect.

An energy is a vibration and any vibration is an activity. So all intelligence energy is, is the activity of knowing. And that's going on in each and every one of us right now. The activity of knowing. And you are that. You are that activity. You are that vibrating pattern of intelligence energy. But when we learn words or concepts, we put words on it. And every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been learnt, picked up along the way. It's not what you actually are. And so you get, I am Bob, the Australian, the good fellow or not so good. My parents told me all words I've learnt.

And I like this, I don't like that. Or I'm happy about this or not. And I'm happy about that. And I'm happy about that. That's where all the psychological suffering comes about from, the belief in these concepts. But am I this conceptual image? Am I this body? Investigate it. Because we say the false will not stand up to an investigation. What's this body made up of? You realise this body's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Separate yourself from the elements if you can. Stop breathing. The air's element. How long would you last without the air? Stop your heart beating.

Heart's expanding and contracting, fire, smoke, those and what not. If that stops, how long will you last without the heartbeat? Stop growing your hair and your fingernails. Stop digesting your food. Take all these elements out of your body and what's left? Nothing. It breaks down. It's just a vibrating pattern of energy. Which is seemingly real. Seemingly solid. Substantial. But it's not when it's investigated. Now what does it do? It forms this pattern, this body, this innate intelligence energy to express through. Just the same as in all this other manifestation. It forms different patterns, shapes and forms to express through. But the pattern, shapes and forms are not real.

Take the water. The water's made of hydrogen and oxygen. It's just an element. Take that out of your body. It won't last long. Take the fire, the body temperature. You soon get hypothermia and die. When you look at this body, you know nothing but the elements, vibrating patterns and expressing every page. But you are the essence in which it all appears. Take this thing you call mind. You'll say my mind. When you say my mind, you know you're not the mind. Because you say my body, my mind, my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house. You know you're not the house, the car or the coat.

Maybe you're not the body. Maybe you're not the mind. When you investigate, you see you're not. But we claim it as ours. Well, whose body, whose mind is it? It must be that one essence that's vibrating, pattern shaping, that expresses and vibrates in all these different pattern shapes. That is the meaning. And that life essence expresses through the body as the primary thought. The thought I am. I am was the primary bone in the first place. Om. Becomes I am. I am Bob, the Australian, the good fellow. All this concept, an image on myself which I believe to be, but which I am not. I'm the pure awareness.

The pure life essence. Which is what you are also. There is only one life. One essence. One intelligence energy. And you are already that. Always have been. And always will be. Couldn't be anything other than that. But when we take on this persona, this body, mind, I am Bob, the Australian. We've limited ourselves to this conceptual form of body, mind, entity. Conceptualized ourselves. Broken ourselves down. Broken ourselves down. So I am not good enough. Or I am fearful. Or I am anxious. Or I am. That's where all your psychological suffering comes about from. The belief that you are this separate entity. What happens if you investigate it?

Am I this person? Am I this persona? Am I this mask? I am not. So how does this work in your life? Something comes up and you like it. How do you know? Well I've had this experience before and it's good. Now we don't want the good things to go away. We want to keep them there. Not realize that this manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. It's changing right now. You haven't got the same body you had a moment ago. Or last week. Or yesterday. It's constantly changing. Constantly transient. But we take on it. We take it to be real and solid and substantial. But it's not.

It's constantly changing. So something comes up and I like it. We don't want this thing. We like to go. Not realizing no matter how much you love it. No matter how much you want to keep it there. It's going to change. We don't want it to go. So what do we do? We resist it. We try to keep it there. I've got to hang on to this for a while. Keep it there. And don't you realize that any resistance you are in. You are in conflict. Resistance is conflict. And any conflict you are in is uneasy. It's dis-ease. Uneasiness. Not at ease. Unhappiness. In other words for unease or unhappiness is dis-ease.

So there's resistance, conflict and dis-ease going on. Which is our psychological suffering. It's only in me that can be unhappy, fearful or anxious. Something comes up and I don't like this one. I like the other one. I want to keep it. This one. A thought comes. Oh I shouldn't have that thought. That's a bad thought. I shouldn't have that. That's an evil thought. I shouldn't have it. So I don't. We try to force it out. In trying to force it out you resist it again. And you are in conflict again. This is what our life is made up of. All this conflict. Anxiety. Stress. Guilt.

Shame. Unhappiness. Fear. Remorse. And that's what the content of our life is. All concepts. All ideas. All mental images. So what happens if I'm not conceptualising it? Well it tells me in some of the scriptures it will tell me that great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any of these mental concepts. If I ask myself what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? To do that I have to pause the thought. And what can you say without a thought? Can you say it's right, wrong, good, bad, pleasant, painful, or anything? You can't. As Shakespeare told you four or five hundred years ago he says there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.

It's the thinking that's the cause of all our problems. And the saga data will tell you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. And that's a beautiful thing. And if you understand that all these problems you've had in thinking nothing at all can trouble you except your own imagination. Now break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. And realise that's all we're doing. We're creating conceptual or mental images all the time. Believing to be there and suffering accordingly through these mental images. Imagining this. Imagining that. Imaging in. And that's the cause of all our psychological problems. This goes on continually. And it's more so than when we have the pauses.

We always have pauses somewhere along the line when we've had taste of it all through our life. That something was there, something was there with you, but we lose sight of it and get locked in if the concepts are gone. But when you settle in it and learn to stay or recognise and stay with the innate essence that you are, all this psychological crap will drop away. Only me can be fearful. It's only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be anxious or distressed or guilty. Me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, the remorse, all the effects.

That's all so-called karma is. Cause and effect. Now what happens if I ask myself the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not related to a cause? Well, there's a lot of causes and effects. There's a lot of causes and effects. There's a lot of causes and effects. You don't have to be a road sculptor to work that out. If I'm not related to a cause, there can't be any effect. So you can be rid of all this karmic ideas or crap or conceptual ideas or revenges we have put upon us when we're young and believe in. You can be free of all these beliefs.

And look at your dictionary definition of belief. A belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or belief. proof. Put your belief to that test and they won't stand up to it because they can't. They're not the actual. And that's what we need to do, investigate. And then use analogies to point this out down through the scriptures. The analogy in the Bible of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They were in paradise. Adam and Eve were in paradise. The Garden of Eden. They ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

In other words, they learnt words. As soon as they learnt words, they were thrown out of Eden. There were no words at all. We don't see those things. We take all the beliefs that are in there and take them if they're real and get locked into them and lost in them. Anyway. I've got a couple of questions. Good. I'm comfortable doing me for a day. Get any questions you can ask. Okay. Ask them for any doubts or any arguments. So, hi everyone. And there is a lot of welcoming message and thank you everyone for the Christmas cards and the wishes and the emails and gifts and for being there.

And here is the first question. This is after the welcoming message from Tanya. There is no good or bad in any preferences, right? Yesterday brought up a story about food preferences and others joked about the preference not to eat meat. Or who is hurt by that? Morals or ethics is a story also. What about wars or suicide bombers? That is just what is? That's a question from Tanya. Well, as I say, if you understand that you are the reality, if you are the reality, then you are the reality. And you must see that there is no centre to anybody else. Who can ever be superior to you then?

Who can ever be inferior to you? If there is nobody superior or inferior, what would you want of the other person? Why would there be a lot of these wars then if you don't want what the other person has got, what they think that's going to take away from you with the concepts and ideas you've got and the belief that you are a separate entity? I'll just add to it that the biggest thing that I think is important is that we are not the same. The biggest in the situation like this, that you buy the Christmas table with your family and they are eating turkey and you are not, and then everyone wants to convert you to do the same as they do because they are right, they've chosen correctly, or they corner you so you start defending.

See how the importance sneaks into a picture. Suddenly it is important to defend my position and it is important for them to be right about what their position is. How important is that? That's exactly right, they defend their position. If they haven't got a position, what do they need to defend? And then Tanya is asking what about the morals or ethics, you know, about killing animals and starving African villages or whatever, or torturing them and bringing them up in conditions that are absolutely shocking. Are they also stories? Well that's how it all appearing and happening isn't it? But each, it's, the one that's judging it, it's not happening to them in a different, it's happening to them in a different way so they can judge it.

If it was all coming from the one thing, what were they to be judged or argued with? Yes, so is it, yeah, wars and suicide bombers, that's just what is, or the torturers of the animals and... Yeah, that's just what is. And this is not to say that if you are moved to, if the life is moving you towards elevating that suffering in some way, or even creating rising awareness about what's happening, it can still be part of the way the life expresses through the particular body-mind, but that also can happen without the narrative. It can happen without the suffering. Yeah. And if you find yourself fighting for freedom for the caged chickens, and you can do it with extreme hatred and resistance for that insensitive, horrible people, or you can do it in a way that, okay that's the situation, I don't really have the narrative about it, and it's just whatever I'm moving, moved to do that feels right, that life is calling for is happening because the narrative comes from the food, the suffering comes from the right action, right behaviour, preferences, because there was food preferences.

If you look in the nature, the animals have food preferences too. Our cats have very strong preference for meat over vegetables. They don't keep caged chickens though, but yes, somehow that's part of the nature. And if there is no narrative around that, nothing good or bad, it's not a big deal. It's not going to cause a war, it's not going to cause a revolution or suffering or tension anywhere. It's just what is. But yeah, that's good stories. Just look at if there is any attachment to certain philosophy or any belief ingrained that, you know, it's not good. One way of looking at things is better or more correct.

And they are perspectives from which every point of view is more correct than others. It's just that you want to go beyond the perspectives, because the space doesn't mind. And you are that space. And there is another one. It is from Catherine. Good morning Bob and Kat. Can you speak on personal relationships? Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to start with you. Okay. I'll start. Oh, you want to go? You go. Okay. Go on. We watched a movie last night. We were just sharing with people, a black and white movie from probably 70 years ago or more. Marlon Brando's first movie, Bob says. Where they were explaining, the couple getting close together, explaining to each other, showing the pigeons.

They are marrying one another and staying for the lifetime married. Because that's their nature. That is their nature. There are other animals, like you look at dogs, their nature is different. They are not married for life. They are not very faithful or loyal to one partner or any partner. And every creature has its own nature. And even within humanity, there are cultures that are part of the nature. And personal relationship or being social creatures is our nature. They are extremely introverted characters that find calling for standing, sitting in the caves, in the mountains. And perhaps that's part of their nature in a bigger scheme of things.

And person is not reality. Yeah. Person. You put the concept on, I'm a person, a separate entity. It's a sense of separation. And what we're talking about is non-duality. When there's nothing separate and apart from it. There's only the one essence. Yes. So personal relationship. I love the way Bob describes the personal so-called relationship. When I remember Mukti, who is a therapist, she actually did the interview with us on that, on relationships. She asks once, how come there's no person and you are in the personal relationship? And Bob says, no, I'm not. I'm not in personal relationship. This is just how that one essence, one life expresses and finding its own reflection in the other.

That's just what's happening. The personal relationship is a story overlaying natural happening. And that's a perfect answer. I mean, when you define personal relationship and then define the rules of it, the rules in the relationship and then expectations and needs and all that stuff, it may be helpful to untangle someone from some traumatic deep hells or something. But basically what we're pointing at is the natural state beyond all those stories that you can get lost with. And in which, if you define all that details, then nature is kind of lost. And it's not just the mind that's lost. It's the mind that's lost. And the mind that's lost is now the mind took over.

And the heart is forgotten. And the perspective of the heart is forgotten. There is Bill saying, what a sheer delight is to be with you all. Thanks, Bob and Kat. Thank you, Bill. Good to have you here. And Michael, love you guys. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Michael. Love you too. And we're fighting for cause is coming from judgment. We create resistance and what you resist persists. Check out Darryl Davis who eliminated the Maryland Ku Klux Klan with love. He didn't judge them and many in that space of love changed. Yeah, that's a nice invitation to just see the situation overlooking the narrative because judgment is not just about the love.

It's also habitual. It is also something that became. We learned that as children by watching our parents school society and judgment comes up. You see someone too small or too big or crippled and the label comes up straight away. It's not something that you are doing. You are not the doer. It comes up. But the invitation is to resonate with that inspiring idea of looking past that label or that judgment that naturally comes up. And see again without it. Christopher, beautiful to be here. Great response to the post about eating meat. Thank you, Christopher. And now Tanya. I didn't even bring it up. My daughter announced to the family that I'm vegetarian.

I didn't say anything about it. No arguing with the family. As I know, they are not choosing to eat meat. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Beautiful. That is no others really. But interstate how all stories come up. There is a little attachment to the perspective I mentioned. Thank you for pointing beyond the perspective. That is why I asked as I am not particularly interested in stories, beliefs, anymore.

Beautiful. Bye, Ron. Bye, papa. says, would you be able to use a three million Australian dollars donation? What would you use it for if you had three million Australian dollars donation? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, when the money lands, who knows? We'll see what we can support. Support some research. Send us three million. And then we will see what comes up. Maybe we'll free the chickens from the cages. Who knows? And Primali, once you get the message, it is so freeing. Absolutely. Yeah. Freedom from the belief. O'Toole says to Tanya, when she says there is no good or bad in preferences, she says, better to focus on the perceiver instead of what is being perceived, then all those questions dissolve itself.

Yeah. It's always a good point. It's the best is perceiving, though, not the perceiver. Yeah, because you're not going to find the perceiver. You may try and look and see if there is anybody there, see what's looking, and there's nothing looking. See how that works. Yeah. Thinking's happening. You don't know what your next thought's going to be. The thought will come up and you say, I think. As soon as you say, I think, you've formed a thinker, a subject. I'm thinking this thought, and the thoughts become the object. So what you've done is divided the thinking into subject. Object, dualism. But can there be a thinker without the thinking?

There can't be. Can there be the thought without thinking? There can't be. So the thinking is the actual. And when we divide the thinker and thought, that's the same with the seeing. You're seeing it right now, and you say, I see. But can the thought, I see, see? It can't. The thought, I see, can't see. Seeing is happening, and it's translated into the thought, I see. So thoughts. It's divided again into subject, object, seer, and seeing. And all these so-called things that are going on are divided into subject, object. Perceiving, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. But the actuality is always the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling.

It's not divided at all. Only seemingly so. Yeah, whole duality comes from that habitual dividing. And it's not divided at all. It's divided into the two ends of the stick. There is one stick, perceiving. And we divide it into perceiver and perceived. But only in thoughts. Because as Bob just pointed, it can't be divided. You take away the perceiver, there's nothing perceived. And there's no perceiving. You take away the perceiving, there is obviously no perceiver and perceived. You take away the perceived, there is no perceiver. They're interdependent. They depend on one another. And Otto, he's a great philosopher. He's a great philosopher. He's a great philosopher.

He's a great philosopher. Oh no, Tanya says, thank you, Otto. No perceiver. Just thoughts. Narrative appearing. Great pointer. Yeah, just thinking, happening. Appearing. And Christopher says, being vegetarian, I would be so happy if my daughter chose to be vegetarian. That being said, I don't have a daughter. You don't even have yourself, if you look closer. And Byron, check us in the mail, he says. Yeah, please. Just, you spoke earlier, Bob, about what Jesus said about being the way and the life and that being the everything, the conscious. I get that part. So, why was the... One thing that's always mystified me, because about... The Christian story is, why was the crucifixion necessary?

Well, why did they... I don't know. Why did they think they needed it? Well, the story of the crucifixion is bad enough, you know, that he's supposed to be a saving, a wise man and got all the answers. And they got him up on the cross and down, waiting at the foot of the cross, they're all sold. And the Roman soldiers, they're throwing dice over his clothes, because they're more worth to him, the value of them. Instead, if they were really interested, they'd be up there, tell us all about it, what's the truth, you know. Instead of that, they're fighting over his clothes and forgetting about the message.

That's what we do. That's another analogy they use. We're always arguing about this religion and that religion. Instead of seeing what's being said in these things, the truth that's in there, we're not noticing. We're all arguing about what this word means and what that word means. And there's also a few other ways of looking at it. Of course, why would the crucifixion be necessary? What a horrible thing. How wonderful that you feel that it wasn't. And that's how the life unfolded. Crucifixion was very common at that time. That's how people dealt with each other. That's how the societies functioned. That's what they believed was the right.

That's what they believed was the right way of solving problems there. And if you look at yet another perspective, how that horrible suffering caused millions of people to actually look into their own suffering or identify themselves, you know, whenever they slapped the brother in the face, they crucified Jesus. Because what he says, the smallest thing you did to the brothers of yours or mine, you did to me. And that story. And that story is the story of extreme suffering was waking people's hearts. Because basically, Christianity is really talking to the heart initially. When they started converting it to the message for the head, we know the inquisitions and crusaders and all that stuff.

It was just completely misguided. Everything really taken to the head becomes a monster sooner or later. And the other thing, too, after the crucifixion, you're supposed to have appeared to Paul or somebody else. I forget who it was now. It doesn't matter. Appeared. Mary and Thomas, yeah. Appeared to a lot of these people. You know, what would you have done if you had had all that? I say, what would you have done if you had risen from the dead again? I'd have raced around to Pontius Pilate and say, listen, you mug, you can't kill me anyway. What's the point in showing the people that, you know?

Instead of a so-called appearing to somebody that others wouldn't take any notice of anyway. And I said, if it was true, he'd let him know that, look, it can't be killed. And the same when they rose Lazarus from the dead. Where is he now? What's the point of raising him from the dead if he's going to die again? That would be my, you know, but you do that to try and shift consciousness in the people of the times. Who paid a lot of attention to that stuff? I don't know. I've come to read all these things fairly late in life. So I often wonder about a lot of the interpretation and the things they make a lot of, a big deal out of.

I just often think, why would you do that? So I'm often mystified and I don't know who to ask. I'm up to you. I'm spontaneous naturally, which I do in a lot of cases. No, it's a good thing. Millions of people here, that's why. Yeah, sure. So when you're having difficulties in life, I'm just, you know, to apply this philosophy, like I'm going through a drama over a will now, right? I'm sure you're all familiar with these problems. Nothing like wills to bring out the worst in people. And I'm doing my best to say, to attribute, I don't actually feel anything much about the people that are doing it.

I don't feel anything much about the people that are doing it. I don't feel anything much about the people that are doing it. I don't feel anything much about the people that are doing it. Who I think is, they're going to be doing stuff that I don't like. I try to, I'm just trying to make no story about them. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying that's what they're doing. That's what they feel is, for whatever reason, they feel they need to do that. And I'm just doing my best to be completely detached and say, well, I stay where I am in my, you know, perception that, you know, to use your words, this is just arising.

It's something necessary. It's something necessary for me to do, to get to do in my life. You know, so I'm trying to apply the, you know, all the lessons of non-duality. And I'm a bit of a novice, but not totally, because I've been here a long time. So you learn, hopefully you learn something. So I'm trying to just stay unfazed by whatever comes up. Just do one step at a time and say, well, I do my best one step at a time without any malice, without a story, without... projections. And just sort of leave it, leave it at that. That's the sort of the best I can hope for.

I say just be open to what comes up naturally. Everything happens in nature. Whatever comes up. I tell you, in, who was it, Banky, then Buddhist monk, he says, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. Without the mind, nature resolves itself. And look at that's what's going on in nature now. You know, day and night, winter, summer, storms, things and things that are going on. It works out, itself out in nature. Just leave it, leave everything as it is. But, and, I mean, that doesn't mean to say you're going to stop doing things. But whatever comes up spontaneously in the moment to do, you'll do.

We had the same problem. We had the same problem a little while ago about wills and things like that, you know. It put us in a great debt that three million dollars would help to settle our accounts. To start with. But, yeah, it resolved itself. I mean, yeah, we're going to pay it off. But we saved Bob's life. It's resolving itself. It still happens. Without all the mental turmoil and hassle going and beating us, how do you... How do you get the hell out of yourself, you know? And suffering the fear and anxiety and stress and that. I have a couple of more questions and comments here.

There is one. Otul replying to Tanya. Oh, no. Tanya replies, thanks, Otul, yes. And Otul says, yes, it is just perceiving only. And perceiver and perceived are just illusion only. And Tanya replying to Christopher on having a vegetarian daughter that he didn't have. That would be nice. But whatever preferences arises is just what is. Beautiful. And she says also that it is seen. That perceiving is the reality and the two ends of the stick are not. Thanks a million, Otul, she says. Merry Christmas, says Monica. Merry Christmas. Otul says you are welcome to Tanya. Actually, self is helping to itself and there is no you and me.

Yeah. so it is only monologue happening here. Yeah. And exactly, I agree 100%, says Tanya. And I think that might be it for now. So anyone of you guys would like to add something or comment something? Mark, you promised you will have revealing questions. Would you like to throw a couple at him? Bob, this is my first time here, as I have mentioned to you. And the first thing you said is that you did the same spiel week in, week out. My question to you is... My question is, why do the people keep coming back for the same message? Part of it might resonate enough to make it with their curiosity to come back to learn a little bit more.

People that come to look at this stuff, you know, they think, oh, well... I don't know, they're not getting far anywhere with it at all. And something, there's got to be more to it than this. So they look along for different things. They come upon a different thing, if it starts to resonate or work with them, they'll follow it for a while, see, to where it takes them, yeah. And it's just a disclaimer. What Bob says initially and often starts to spill from, he's not talking to bodies and he's not talking to minds. He's actually speaking to that essence, that life, that animating force, which differentiates between the life and the dead body, that essence that is who you are.

So initially people listen with the mind. So they look for logic. Oh, that's logical. Oh, I get that. Oh, no, I disagree with that. I heard something different. Oh, no. They constantly, whatever Bob is saying, oh, body is just element. Oh, you can't drink the word water. And the commentary comes, yeah, so what? Or the... Water is hydrogen and oxygen, two gases. Well, is it really? You can drop it down to particles. They argue with it. They comment it. They compare it with whatever they heard. And there is no real listening. No real listening. Real listening after a few times, something also hears behind that commenting mind.

And that is sort of a hearing from the heart. And when they taste it, just even a little bit, then they come back. And the resonating builds up the feeling like, yeah, I don't really know what it is, but it kind of brings peace. It makes me feel more serene. It kind of helps. Don't know why, don't know how. So sometimes people come for a few months, sometimes for a few years, sometimes once in six weeks, sometimes every meeting. I mean, in the Zoom, depends how that resonating builds and how they manage to wind off the commentary as they listen with the heart. And then ultimately they don't need to because it speaks through their own, the insights come through their own.

When the heart opens up, when that channel, that sad guru, the inner wisdom, because it's nothing new that we say, it's absolutely nothing that anyone wasn't born with. Like a baby, baby doesn't have any concept of being separate from anything at all. Only with learning language it learns that it is I'm here and the world is there and I'm vulnerable so I need to add to myself I need to fix myself make myself strong complete myself. Initially there is just plain being just like the being of the cat and there is no drama about it is no narrative that things should be different or I should be different or I'm incomplete I'm not good enough.

So that appeals if someone is lucky enough to actually just have that veil of the narrative not thick and solid but with a little holes through which that essence comes and finds resonates with that innate wisdom the heart then it builds up. I'm watching. I'm watching. came on playing with the cat so that's I don't know if that answers but yeah the best answer was was what Bob was saying ask them but this was what happened to me when I first came first I was coming once in a few months I knew the non-duality concepts but I was working at sea so I couldn't come anymore often but then as the suffering was coming stronger it did bring sense of relief and it lasted for a few hours or few days and then I had to come again recharge the battery the resonating which couldn't be really explained conceptually what is it that brings that sense of ease that I don't go to the drama that often and that ferociously well that was a good question thank you you have some more so you say that you know until until we have words we don't was it we don't I've heard it before we don't have memories and we don't have a sense of our we don't have a sense of separation so I've um I just remember stuff and I see stuff have for years and years so I can remember in the womb I couldn't being in the womb and I had no words and I've got plenty of memories or memories of being born and how it felt and I had no words so I I've talked to people about that before they said oh that's what psychologists say and I said well it's just not my lived experience I've remembered all sorts of things from all different times and places not because I wanted to didn't ask for it didn't go looking for it it just turned up so I just wondered about that idea that you know I mean I assume that just that's just consciousness operating remembering things from all times and places oh that's true if I didn't know that I would have been able to remember things if I didn't you're saying if I didn't express it in words that wouldn't exist except in my it might be in my mind as a picture not as words but you often have a feeling attached to the picture which is you don't need words for because I but I do I do I do know what oh I see you mean until I mean I I know what the feeling is but you're saying for me to convey it I've got to stay away from it put a label yeah and I don't even need to put I don't even care about because I put a label yeah I don't even need to put I don't even care about because I often have things I see I'm not I have no need to describe them to anyone else the majority of the stuff I've seen is just well I call it temporary phenomena you know it's visions and it's just stuff passing through and people might think it's interesting but I've learnt just keep it out there you know you're there you know you're there and you know it's just a story that I've lived my life you were there then because you didn't have the words to describe it.

You can remember that you were pure being and you're still that pure being. As Walt Whitman says, afar down I see the first huge nothing. He says, I know I was even there. Also I read, you want to do it? Go on. I read an interesting book about a little bit of a newer research on the brain and how the neural pathways form and when and how. What was really standing out and the title was The Mind is Flat or Flat Mind or something like that. A friend recommended and I listened to it. It shows that the mind is a phenomenal, phenomenal improvising device. Right now, and I've done, I was doing actually organizing retreats, non-duality retreats for people in Poland sometimes.

Yeah. I was doing a retreat in Poland about 10 years ago. We had a lot of different exercises and meditation. The moment people go to meditation, straight away they go astray and they come up with butterflies and diamonds and lights, this light here, there, angels, past lives, all sorts of shit, only not to face the void. But the same phenomena happens if you introduce light hypnosis or regressing or you put them in through holotropic breath work. Yeah. Any sort of situation and the mind will throw out thousands of incredibly creative, inspirational images, visions, past lives, future lives, whatever it will, that has been created right in that instant, that do not come from the past.

Those neuronal connections and those images were not there yesterday. They only come on the command. They invite it to come. When the mind under the state of very, very, like let's say hypnotic state where it's very receptive for suggestion, it's ask a question and doesn't have the answer. It will just make it up straight away. That's how the whole world has been created, made up situations. I can look at how the science works. Somebody has an idea and then look to find and manifest that idea in the reality. It's amazing what a creative instrument it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and how it converts that raw life essence into everything that we see and experience. And of course it comes with the picture that, no, no, it happened 1016 years ago, to me. Well but 1016 years ago, what was there that is here now? The idea of traveling through time or incarnating, reincarnating. It doesn't make the stories any less fabulous or any less miraculous or the stories of Dalai Lama's, they search kids and those kids recognize some stuff that science look into it as well. Collective beliefs and stuff like this doesn't make it any less fabulous if we really call it a dream.

And if we say that you can dream absolutely anything. Thank you. Just like at night you can have a lucid dream and suddenly grow yourself wings and you fly. Or you go underwater and you breathe. Totally, totally valid in the dream. And not less wonderful. Because people say that, oh, if you discard that, oh, I remember my past lives or when I was in the womb. And now you say, well, look, you know, it's not maybe the mind improvising it right now. When you call it, it comes. And it tells you that it comes from the past. It is part of the image. Oh, you're discarding it.

You're kind of slapping it in the face or taking magic out of it. I think it's quite the opposite. I think the fact that there is no time really. And the whole time comes into existence as soon as you conceptualize it. The past, the future, being a child, being at school. It has never happened apart from this moment when you're remembering it and in this moment when you create it. So it's the mind as fresh and new, as something that exists. It is only the mind that creates solidity of time. Without the mind there is, without the thinking, there is no experience of time. And that's more, I would say, miraculous, magical and phenomenal, incredible than any story of time.

Because it is just so immediate, like everything exists right now. with all of it, all the potentialities of every past, every perspective, every viewpoint. For the mind it's just a killer, it's too overwhelming. But you can really take it in with your heart and relax into it and get lost in that mystery. Comments here. Yeah, I see. Primali says, people come back because message get unfolded more and more each time. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to summarize it. Yes. Atul, when seeker and the guru tune to the same frequency, then the true knowledge reveals itself. It can't be the result of any spiritual practice.

It happens through grace. Grace only. That's a nice way to put it too. And Atul's so-called spiritual practices are only needed to become a receiver of the grace itself. And you can say you're not separate from the grace either because it's just one essence. It may appear as separate bodies, separate graces, practices, but that's all one. And that was it regarding the comments. Anyone would like to add something? If you like, Simon? Can you add anything? Well, there's nothing I can add. I don't know what to say. But I was just thinking prior to the question, why do we come here? Yeah, and all the beautiful things that were said that people resonate with the message.

Yeah. And you know that... Yeah. I think the message that I want to resonate with the message is that it's that same thing. Santa Claus isn't real anymore. So like, you know, you've gone everywhere. Most, a lot of people have been seekers, you know, in many, many ways. And they, you know, for me, it was just hitting whatever it was, a brick wall or whatever, because I did so much seeking. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The more seeking that was getting involved in was just endless.

So that, and the answer was right underneath my nose, you know, was always there, never really left it, was right under my nose, but I couldn't see it because I was seeking that there had to be some kind of knowing. or understanding, you know. And, you know, I tried to understand, say, past lives or reincarnation. We all tried to know. Anyway, it was just a never-ending story. And there was no story in the end. So it was, words can't really accurately make this possible. You know, that's why we're here. But that, you know, somehow we're resonating with what Bob, Kate, what we all say here.

And this message is a useless message. It's a hopeless message, as Bob says. You know, I'm not speaking to anyone. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. So who wants to hear that message? You know, people want to hear. They want to hear something. You know, they want to get that information that will lead them somewhere else, you know. And that's why there's, this meeting is quite, you know, most of it is a small meeting, you know. Because people are really, they don't want to hear this message. That there's no me. You know, that the me is an illusion. And, yeah.

But when you resonate with it, you want to, the rest of the stuff just falls away. The gurus and all the wellness groups and this group and that just falls away because it never was anyway. And you just want to be around people more like yourself because you've had enough of dealing with wills. Crazy me's with the wills. Right? Crazy Christmas stories, right? You just, like, out there, it's just, it's crazy. You know, as Bob told me, you know. Just get out of that. And so, you know, for me, it's like resonating and just, you know, not dealing with the crazy me's in that sense.

It doesn't have to be that way, but we all resonate with that message, yeah? That's what I want to say. Beautiful. I love when you actually summarized it, that on the beginning, there was a seeking, a lot of seeking in the mind, understanding this with the mind, understanding reincarnation, understanding different concepts, a lot of stories. And at the end, there's no story. I loved it. Yeah. Beginning, plenty of stories, and then no story. That's the final answer. You arrive at the story that there is no story. You find that the answer is not in the mind. The seeking drops away. There is no more seeking.

There is nothing to be found. And there is no one to seek. And now, suddenly, everything becomes very, very easy because you see the story for what they are. And you may enjoy them as good stories, bad stories, like the movie we watched yesterday. And just that way. And they don't hurt you. They don't bind you. And even if there is a little bit of emotion attached to the stories, because that's part of the way the body responds to the environment. If it doesn't get the food it likes. But how important is that? If you don't believe what the mind is going to have to say about it.

It's just so simple. And as you said also, it has always been there in front of your eyes, in front of your nose. You're never unaware. You're never not being. I think I also have a couple of fresh and new comments. And I think I have a couple of questions. So Christopher says, it is more a simultaneity of everything existing in a singular isness. There is no suppression of wonder or miracles in it at all. Yeah, beautiful. And now Tanya says, wow, how profound, relaxing into the mystery. When you said that, Kat, that is exactly what happened. And then recognition is that what is unfolding.

So beautiful. Isn't it so simple? Just Christopher says, in fact, the opposite is true. A greater celebration of everything was nothing is happening. There is no dueling or dumbing down of any world. The Shakti dances. Yes, I agree. Life absolutely becomes more juicy and more beautiful. When you don't take it too seriously, but you can really embrace every part day and night. Michael, so this whole dream is just now. Can the dream change instantly, radically, so that this point of view or world or reality can quantum leap into new reality, totally disconnected from the reality in the prior instant? I'd say yes. Every moment of insight is such quantum leap.

When you're sitting with your dear ones in the room and you're seeing the walls, and suddenly the instant comes, that little insight, and the whole dream collapses. And there is no, nothing. There is just being. Being is all there is. And then the dream rebuilds itself. And then you see how completely transformational that point of view can be. If you feel you are a victim, and then suddenly you realize, oh my gosh, nothing has ever happened. And you're completely in a different universe when you're not a victim anymore. But I guess what you think of, it might be what like beautiful ideas of like simulation games or, or transurfing, moving between worlds.

I have to tell you, I do it many times, the dream at night. In one dream I'm driving ships. I don't know why it's still happening. It's been six years since I was driving ships. But it is still happening. On some other, some teenager, in that transition from one dream to another is instantaneous. And this dream is just one of them. one of the succession of different dreams. Can I comment on that? Primali says, yes, exactly. Try to understand reincarnation, etc. And then try to get better spiritual experiences. That's a good point. Absolutely. A lot of seeking is for better spiritual experiences and wanting them to last.

The little blissful moments in meditation. Oh, I saw the light. I want to see that light all the time. Yes, good point, Primali. That is the dream, illusion. And people come back because message gets... Yes, Primali says, yes. But not to a new reality. Understanding happens about all is illusion, but also real. Yeah. You can't say that it exists because you can't find any independent nature or any self nature. You can't say that it is a nature to anything because everything depends on everything else and it's just labeled. But you can't also say that it doesn't because that would be a denial. It appears. So it neither does nor it doesn't exist as everything in the dream, just like at night.

And now Otto says, oneness itself appearing as duality, yet only oneness exists even during the appearance of the duality or the duality, like sunlight appearing as seven bands of rainbow of colors, yet there is only just a sunlight. Beautiful analogy. Beautiful. Beautiful. Same life essence appears as just the energy and filtered through the body is the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking. And with that, transforming that energy further, the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, creating, creating, creating, creates space, thinking, creates time. And there we go. The whole universe comes into existence. And Julia, not that the body comes first and not that the body comes second.

It's again, it's just this moment now. British Julia, all crazy me's just are. Bob helped me not to attach a story to them. Thank you, Bob. Christmas Day was much more joyous than usual without stories. All the stories I wrote, I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. All the stuff that I wrote about my Christmas days. I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. I wrote about Christmas. I was able to get that view that I already have because I'm here in my own ER. But I think every journey could be a journey of a different kind.

But the interesting thing is I'm here in my own ER. And so I want to be part of that world, because I'm here in my own world and who wants to be part of that world? Maybe that world of all that I'm thinking about? Is it okay with you to see all that I'm seeing? But it is really, really easy to get to that which is become what you call the most important thing in your life. But it's also a very difficult thing. that's ramana maharshi unending births so that's a that's a that's an idea the thought crossing the ocean of thinking of ideas otto you are not in the universe but universe is in you yeah that's a that's an answer which uh missar gadata used to give to people that were saying that you are in the universe the truth is neither and both because there is no you there is no universe but yeah that's the answer and that i've noticed in nisargadatta's pointing and in bob's pointing and in my own pointings it often happens the way that if someone is locked in particular position for example that i'm not the body then you just show them that you are you are just dive down to that essence feel everything in the body and you are the body feel the vibration of energy don't get attached to the emptiness or to the nothingness and be miserable uh and if you are is is really just about loosening a grip of any fixed position because space is not fixed it doesn't have any perspective and a fixed viewpoint the freedom is about unfixated awareness that flows freely and attends freely to whatever needs attending i think there is one more comment and thank you everyone for helping us we have a very small group here so the questions and comments are deeply appreciated so we don't have to sit in silence um christopher says bliss is continuous in a very nature of things and fresh every moment like a fragrance if there is no well-being i suggest there is mental concept of nothing happening it happens in a lot of non-dual circles that's a beautiful point yeah bliss a lot of people define bliss as orgasmic ecstatic sort of elation a serotonin shock just before you die of it but here christopher reminded that sense of well-being sense of being well or nothing is wrong anymore is underlying it's a natural state and if that natural state is not being acknowledged then perhaps a subtle concept is there that oh is boring or something like that or of course they are situations like running away from the war or suicide or hand grenade or pain or stuff like this then then no question even arises is there anything right or wrong because there is no attention available for even asking that nonsensical question uh tanya thank you so much for this beautiful meeting fresh and new resonance love you a lot thank you tanya and ditto being is the bliss itself says otto yeah there is a love for being or joy of being like everything loves to be that's why it has all the survival strategies and instincts because there is deliciousness in being is joy in being and british julia is saying that oh replying to yo Michael that he had a good question I see I might have missed the question and thank you Julia so this whole dream is just now that says Michael can the dream change instantly radically oh yeah I didn't miss that question in the point of view yes I can tell you Michael I remember when I first experimented with the lucid dreaming and I realized that I could somehow I'm dreaming and I'm going through the forest and it's in this uphill in the mountain and it is getting a little bit warm a little bit too hot the leaves are green starting falling a little bit golden and I realized that this is this is my dream and I say I want a winter right now and the whole scenery in an instant changes to white and then I realize oh my god can I fly and of course in the the the , lucid dreaming is just that sort of a phenomenon in the brain that can allow you explore the possibility of changing totally disconnected from the reality of the prior instant it's a great fun it's not necessary it's not advisable it's not recommended it's just if it happens it's appreciated and if you are the kind of drawn to this type of experiments maybe you will be the one you know ultimately the life essence appreciates itself and it's it's own creation through everyone in a different segments of reality you may be the appreciator of that okay so I didn't miss the question but thank you anyway for highlighting it you've just about bettered me to death oh it happens dozing off yeah he's still on the pain medication only three weeks ago was it three and a half weeks ago he had a major cystic.

surgery so there's still opiates. You don't have to make excuses. Plus yes 93 there is an old body you do have to. You're doing good just yes you're here. Thank you. Can I just ask something yes years ago I've always been you know had visions and things just pop up you know didn't ask for them didn't go looking for them at one point years ago I had five years nonstop. every day. It just it was like you know but it was it wasn't just about here it was out there it was cosmic it was whatever and. I've always wondered what it was all about and I thought what was the purpose of me having all that didn't go looking for it was all a classified this almost like science fiction and I've never read a science fiction book I don't like science fiction movies so it's not like I went.

You just turned up. And it was about it was you know it was not it. It wasn't a terrible time in life but tricky but I just it sort of added color and color and interest to light and it showed me stuff about. I thought I was saying stuff about the bigger picture to this day I have no idea you know but what did you do is it did distract me from meditation and I sort of lost my habit of meditation which I've had for years. And I'm still struggling to get that back so. I mean is that true. Yeah. Was it just the mind sending you sort of entertainment because when I talked it over with you know a Buddhist.

Person I said oh it's just temporary phenomena and you and I just said I think I'll just leave it all alone and sort of switch off the channel. And because I thought I don't want to be lost in that and it's quite different from what I feel now which is more just grounded you know okay it doesn't have to be stars and lights but. Was it just the mind sending me a whole. sending me a whole lot of entertainment. Yeah, I mean yes you can always just turn off the channel but I remember I had a similar situation when I was working at sea for 17 years during the day seeing blue only everywhere blue sky blue water nothing else no stimulation at night everything was turning dark black so that wasn't really much and for months altogether so I would go to sleep at night or that depends on the shift and I would have seven eight nine dreams and I delighted in writing them down just a couple of words and see what the universes I was exploring completely different realities things I've never seen anywhere the like yes science fiction and I loved it because then I would be sitting and driving the ship and then some of the little picture would come and just blow it a kiss oh thank you it was necessary for the brain to not fall dull i think it was really kind of keeping the gray cells growing and connections flashing life does these things it really finds the way to cut it for itself to provide for itself and i was totally relaxed and trusting life i didn't have a story about why is it or what for the stories of why and what for i usually just invitation for yet another story i did remember that i read a couple of theories about what the function of the dreaming is and people have different theories that it yes exercises the brain or it rehearses the situations or it keeps the balance chemical balance kind of but they are all theories there is nothing really known it is really a mystery and it's it's yes a wonderful mystery i can see animals dreaming too once the cat pushed me off the bed because bob was laughing the rest of the night so there is another um question oh otto is commenting awakening is for the awakened one that's the paradox awakening is for the awakened one awakening is from the dream of being separate of from the dream of being a self or the persona or the little little dwarf or little santa inside that thinks it has the power it pulls the strings and it controls and it chooses and it makes decisions if you believe there is someone there or someone here that does all these things and that someone is is you then yes awakening from that idea that's what they call awakening and then the dream goes on and there is no awakened there is no one that the one that the dwarf that the waking from happened is it is not replaced like if there was an idea that there was a cat there that was running a show and the awakening of that from that idea happened now there is no one running the show the show goes on no one runs it no one speaks no one sees everything's just happening with the ing and ing before it was my dream it was when i was very young that really wasn't one of the two ideas that i was alone and there were a lot of other ideas i was working with a lot of different people like anda there are other people who are interested in that anda you know but i said that they don't know anything about the world that i i mean when i i was a i always thought that i would be a human being but i was a human being before that i was a human being and that's a super engineered combination but if everyone believes that that the world was online the ING, N-ing.

Before it was my decisions, my choices. Now they are decisions, choices, deciding, choosing. So awakening is from the dream of being separate entity, individual. But no one wakes up. There is no awakened. If there was someone there, you're waking from it. And who is the you that's waking from it? There is no you, really. It's just life. It's just the natural functioning. One essence, as Bob says. Expressing, patterning, shaping, forming, and dancing as everything. That one. Like wind doesn't wake up. The ocean doesn't wake up. But if there was an identity with the ocean, then the waking up from the identity might happen. And no one wakes up because if there is no identity anymore, then there is no...

Awakenings. The waking up from the identity. The waking up from the dream of the happening. And we have thank you and thank you all, love to all from Karolin. So I guess that will be wrapping up. Unless anyone would like to add something or ask something? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.