This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Welcome everyone. Every one, one that is in everyone. Everything is one and not even one. That's the point. Anyway, so the basics of nonduality, the absolute basics to make it as simple as it possibly can be, is the basic sense of presence, which is not even a sense, but is the fact of presence. Everything can be deconstructed but not the fact that I am. That is a fact. For any sort of inquiry and deconstruction and arguments you have to be. The I am is primary. And they are ideas that there is a reality apart from the I am. And of course those are all theoretical ideas because we can't know that and it is not right now.
What's happening right now is the I am, is the existence being, being consciousness bliss. I am, I am awake, I am here, but what I am is a story. What means here is a story. So it is just a basic sense of presence. And now on that sense of presence come the overlay of all sorts of stories, the thinking, the constructed world of me as identity, me as entity, me and my relationships with my job, with my past, with my health, with my problems. All of that comes on the basis that this sense of I AM has been hijacked by the idea that this is a me that is.
So the I AM, universal I AM, expresses through one body-mind and then the idea comes that I AM the body-mind. So this is a thought, without that thought, that universal I am, that I am which doesn't start or end with the skin, is all there is. The consciousness, the witnessing consciousness is all there is. So the idea that I am limited, I am inside the body or I'm inside the thought structure is the idea that needs to be questioned, is the idea that is the possibility is to shed off that costume of ideas. And then the presence is free. And it doesn't mean that it is not free if it is wearing an idea.
It is always and ever free. But the subjective sense of contraction is being experienced in the body and is being confused as the I am, as being constructed, constricted. So that's unnecessary. Coming back to that fact of being, undeniable fact of being, and now noticing if that being without any concepts, if that being has any sort of problems or issues or the relationships. And we notice that now there is nothing wrong. There is nothing wrong unless we think, create the ideas, concepts, relationships. So, recognizing that, moment to moment we can actually see what is keeping us away from that primordial natural state, that stateless state, that joy of being.
And of course, the joy may be obscured by the confines or limitations of the body, but that's only temporarily. Physical pain or physical discomfort is something that the body does, is something that the body looks after itself. It is being resolved. None of those temporary discomforts is lasting. Even the chronic conditions are constantly changing. So everything that is imposed on that witnessing consciousness or the fact of being the presence is temporary and changing. So you can just wait it out or you can just admire the change, the flow, the dance. But you know that that not who you or what you ultimately are because you witnessing it changing So you witnessing the body changing you not the body You witnessing its thoughts changing you not the thoughts Everything that changes has a beginning and an end is just a passing phenomenon What is change-less is the witnessing of it, the knowing of it, and the knowing in general.
So it really is waking up from the dream of being individual into the dream of just being witnessing, being, knowing, loving to be. Because the dream still appears to be. Even if there is no dream of being something or someone, there is still a dream seemingly appearing. There is a world appearing and that world is constantly changing. That world is the passing phenomena. But there is a presence, there is a consciousness, there is an awareness of that presence. So waking up from the nightmare of being poor little me, confined, unlovable, unworthy, constantly feeling that I'm not enough, I'm not good enough, I have to fix myself.
I have to medicate myself, sedate myself, sedate that pain and longing for completeness. I have to keep seeking because maybe there is something to be found in the future. I have to practice because then I will get liberated. All those ideas are imposed on that ever-present awareness of being. I am feeling like a me. Well, yeah, but what does it even mean to feel like a me? I'm feeling like a body. No. Nobody can feel like a body. That's a concept. That's the concept that has been taken up and we've been taught to think that thought. How could you feel like a body? How does the body feel like?
So whatever you are feeling, what you are feeling is a sensation. It's a set of sensations, set of impressions. These are the impressions of having a location or point of view for the images that are passing through. They are sensations for sounds and for various other sensations of so-called bodily processes. But it doesn't feel like I am the body. It feels like there are sensations coming through. There are sensations on sitting and then the thought comes, there is a bottom and it sits on the chair. But the sensation doesn't know anything about the us or the chair. Sensation is just plain sensation. And in the same way, everything that is being experienced is being translated by the mind as something in particular.
But recognizing that stepping back from the story we tell ourselves of what it is, there is just plain sensation, there is just plain movement of energy. And recognizing that there is a presence, there is a witness in consciousness, and there are sensations passing through, vibrations, energy passing through. And on top of that there is a translation passing through. Let's say the sensation shows up or the energy of vibrations shows up and straight away the shows up a label. This is anxiety, this is pain, this is anger. Why is that label coming up and marking the energy as something that has been known in the past?
The energy is always fresh and new. That is how the illusion gets created. That is how the dream gets solidified. That's how it seems like, oh yeah, I had the anxiety before, now I have the anxiety again. Anxiety that I had before was stronger or weaker or longer or quicker. There is a story coming up. And now that story solidifies the I, because it is all about the I, the me. And does the I, the witnessing consciousness, ever have an anxiety? No. But does the body respond in that labeling state which causes cortisol to move, the breathing to get shallow, the heartbeat to raise, the thoughts, the images to change?
By all means the organism yes by all means it can get a condition which would be labeled as anxiety But without that label what does the witnessing consciousness have It just has the passing energy It's nice to see how wonderfully brilliant it is that the world is being created and constructed by the use of memories, These are the two kinds of past labels compared and fit in to the present occurrence. But it's also equally important and equally fascinating to know that that's not true. Because it is enough to reframe the labeling and everything changes. I remember Jane sometimes says the story about Bob reframing for her the anxiety into the mastering energy for performance.
She is a singer. As a singer she has to step up in front of the public. And she used to shit her pants before stepping out that they won't like it. And that was an anxiety and this was a disorder and it was terrible. And it killed half of the pleasure of being a performer. And the way Bob reframe it for her, it was that, why call it anxiety? Why label it from the past? Don't you see that right now you need all that energy, all that rush of the energy to accumulate, The I am grateful for my mother having a story of being a victim of her mother who abandoned her as a baby.
And couple of her siblings suffered greatly because her sister has not been abandoned. And she ended up being chronic alcoholic and my mother was spared from it. And at some one fine day we had a glass of wine and I say, can't you be grateful that your mother spared you from that faith? She realized, oh shit, life looks after me. Something that was a victim story suddenly became a story of being looked after, being loved by life. It's just the flip of the coin. See how the world is constructed. Which one, which story is true? Neither. No story is ever true. What is really happening right now and what was ever happening is the witnessing presence Awareness of presence and the vibrations passing through that awareness of presence.
And that vibration causes some responses in the body and there we already start labelling. If that vibration causes some neurotransmitters to fire, excitement or the adrenaline, that's already labelling. That's already too much, it's already too far away from what is really happening. It's the movement in stillness. There is always movement in stillness happening. And then layers over it, there is an interpretation of what that movement is. Excitement, no, anxiety, no, fear, or whatever. And then it comes with it. Oh, it is a fear because I have whatever fear of mice or spider or something. And this is because when I was a child, this and that happened.
And this all based on the false assumption that there is an I to which all that happens. So now this was my past. This is my fear. This is what is happening with me. Not only the world has I am not the only one. The world has been constructed, but the world has been related to the I or me. And in that relationship, the suffering comes up because the next thing is, oh, I don't want that. I don't like that. Why? Why did that happen to me? So I'm putting the telephone down because I think the cameras, or maybe the hand got tired. I'm not showing him anymore.
So that's really what's happening, coming back and recognizing moment to moment every situation as a situation in which there is an emptiness forming, dancing, appearing as the movement. The movement of thought, the movement of sensation, the movement of sound, sight. This is all just movement in the movement happening in the stillness So the stillness is the witnessing consciousness The movement is everything is the whole world the whole constructed world So now, to make it as practical as possible, in any situation you find yourself, Even if the fraction of attention can actually rest completely relaxed in that stillness, and the rest of it will be, of course, naturally for the need, for the sake, for the functioning of the body, Part of attention will be listening to the sounds, maybe some wild animal chasing you.
So the sounds need to be, the body needs to evaluate whether there is a safety there or the sights or the... So anyway, a certain amount of attention is spent to keep the body safe. A lot of attention is spent to find pleasure for the body, to find pleasure and avoid pain. And that's also part of the functioning. If you look at the nature, you look at the animal or even a plant, it will, sunflower will turn and follow the sun, will put the roots down to find the nutrients and the water in the soil. So, the part of attention that goes to protect the body, defend the body and keep the body happy, keep the body secure and deliver rather pleasure than pain, avoid pain and deliver pleasure, is still that sort of a first generation dream in which the suffering is not necessarily there yet.
The suffering only comes when the solidified story of me in relation to the world. Now I am here, the world is out there and I have the narrative. I have to keep safe. Before these words even came up to my mind, the body already has the program, has the function to keep itself safe. And that I mean everybody, including the smallest cell in the organism. It is already equipped in that program to keep itself safe. Even the microbes in the drop of water. So this one is already sorted. But now the narrative self comes into the picture and say, I have to keep safe. Now the assumption is that there is an I and that I have to do, I have the power to be a doer and do something about it.
It is my duty. It is heavy. I have to now deliver an action, put an effort into keeping the body safe. So that's already a burden. That's the beginning. That's only a beginning. Because the narrative continues. And now it says, I don't want this. Well, the body naturally moves away from what it doesn't like, naturally, without the story in the head. You are attracted to eating certain part of food without the story, just like the animal. But then the narrative comes and say, I don't like this. Why would I have to eat it like little children and broccoli? I don't want that. I don't like that.
So now there is a me and the me is in power and that me wants to have the choice and it wants to have the control, the illusion of me because there isn't any me, it's just a construct. I'll just put a little bit rolling down because the nurses will be coming. Yes, so that narrative keeps building up, like Bob is illustrating it wonderfully when he talks about the little children. If the child has warm and loving family, it will be less insecure and less vulnerable. We will be growing faster, it will be curious of the world, it will be kind of more open. But there are kids that are very anxious, the loving family is not there.
And straight away that suffering comes ingrained. Why other kids have iPhone and I don't? Or why am I not as tall or as smart? Or why my daddy is not as big as their daddy? Why did God create hell? All that narrative comes... The more of the suffering, the more of the insecurity, the more of the downward spiral into the thinking. Because at some point the thinking was a protective measure against the emotional pain. The illusion of, yeah, I call it now, this is vibration going on here, I don't know what it is, I don't know what to do about it, I call it, give it a label.
I am not that anxious because I know something. But no, giving an energy a label, it doesn't explain it. You know as little as ever, if not less. And on top of it, you are disconnected with the raw energy And going to the narrative, to the head for the explanation. And for the little children, it might have been a survival strategy at some point, when the pain or the energy was unbearable. Distracting yourself, engaging in explanation, engaging in something else, in pleasures, avoiding that raw energy, that connection with life, that stepping into and being present for that sometimes overwhelming raw energy was the strategy. Sooner or later the kid develops the identity and as it starts, the identity I am a me, I am little Johnny or I am Polish or Hindu or whatever I am.
That doesn't sit right, it doesn't explain the mystery of life. Okay, so I have to find something to build that identity a little bit stronger. I have to find myself. Okay, so maybe I'm a Buddhist and I was a prince in a past life. Yeah, okay, that adds a little bit more to the identity. Or maybe I'm a painter or a singer or a mother. That adds a little bit to the identity. But it never, ever gives that fake sense of identity a sense of completeness. It will always be not enough. It will always be seeking to extinguish that sense of unworthiness, that sense of not being enough, that contraction there, that little like a black hole, a void there in the solar plexus or in the heart, that fear that, oh my God, I feel like I'm fake.
I have to hide myself because people will see through it. Because I will see through it. There is something not right. See, everyone gets it together, but it's something inherently not right. So then the ways to medicate it is, of course, all sorts of temporary measures, sugar or foods or drinks or drugs or sex or shopping or whatever it is So, this is the process that creates the temporary, turns the attention away from that primordial call for investigation, that call for looking into the void. So, but of course it backfires very quickly. It is, you get used to it and it doesn't really do the job anymore.
I Am That, Ramana Maharshi, I Nchagiri, Dzogchen, Veda, Vedanta, presence-awareness, Maha Maha, Because that whole is really something that is the emptiness from which the whole fullness springs. So trying to silence that inner voice, that call for home, doesn't ever work. You may spend a lifetime distracting yourself, traveling around the world and constantly being excited about things You all know your own strategies for distracting. Everyone has a strategy for distracting oneself from that angst, that angst or that boredom or that void or that uncertainty of what's there. And you know that it never works, otherwise you wouldn't be here. The seeking, really, when you look at everyone who considers themselves the narrative, the body or the mind or the voice in the head, is constantly seeking more of whatever, I am not satisfied with this moment So that never works People may get old and find out that they can travel anymore they can drink alcohol they can have sex and they have to face the fact that now they sitting they can move around And okay, the TV, flip the channels over.
And it never works long term. Long term, the lifetime passes and the peace has not been found. Because it's not outside. That's the problem of seeking. Seeking outside, seeking in the reflections, because the world is a reflection of that void, that emptiness. That emptiness is dancing for itself, creating all different vibrations, forms, creating The body is part of the world to see the reflections of itself. Looking for fulfilment or completeness outside is futile. Initially, the seeking matures. When there is complete disappointment and absolute certainty, there is nothing to be found out there, especially when people are wealthy and prosperous and everything goes for them. There is still a sense of void, a sense of calling for something, there must be something more.
That's the place where the seeking matures into starting looking into the void, starting looking within, and of course within and without their concepts as well. But at least within, it doesn't mean put the attention away, It means bring the attention back to the source of attention. So instead of following whatever colours or shapes eyes are tracing or whatever sounds the ears are hearing, now withdraw that attention from the eyes and the ears and let that attention rest. And this is where whole new universe can be discovered. In that silence, in that nothingness, in that emptiness, in that void. Like Bob sometimes says, face your fear of death and the death of fear is certain.
That was the quote, I think. I have to put it one day on the Facebook group so I finally remember it. So it is really about facing the void. Only to be found that there is nothing empty in the emptiness. There is an absolute fullness, fulfillment and completeness in that which is constantly run away from. Is it a boredom that you are fearing? That there is nothing there? Stay with that nothing. Just stay with that nothing and see what happens. Nisargadatta would say, stay with that I am, which is one of the same thing. There is nothing else. It's like you can deny everything and the I am stays there or the awareness of presence, presence of awareness.
Just stay there. Course in miracles have a funny way of looking at it. Stay there one moment longer than you can. Obviously, you can't stay any longer because the moment you do, the you explodes. There is no you anymore. So yes, one moment longer than you can. When you can't, stay with it and you will see that there is really nothing to fear. There is nothing that the fear of annihilation, fear of non-existence, fear that that void is going to swallow you and there will be no you. What an incredible concept. Fear of non-existence, completely unimaginable. So, okay, let's face it, how it is not to exist.
I assure you it's not going to happen. You're still gonna be there to even imagine how to not exist. So there is absolutely nothing to lose. There is nothing to fear. There is just really finding that curiosity. And it often shows up out of a desperation when nothing else works anymore. And that's actually a good thing if nothing else works anymore, that cigarette or that next girlfriend I am the next property, if it doesn't fulfill me anymore, suddenly, okay, fine, I can rather do it now. And then just sitting with whatever like okay fine you can kill me you going to kill me you going to suck me out the emptiness fine I ready just take me whatever whatever let it happen And in that readiness in that complete surrender what you discover, the core of your essence, the existence, the presence of awareness, it can't be destroyed.
The concepts may temporarily disappear, but you as who you are, it can't be touched. So it is really coming back to that absolute basic of what to trust in life. Even if you did not get failed by everything just yet, look around, others did. If you think you're going to become a millionaire and you're going to be fulfilled, well ask couple of millionaires. And I say, yeah, not the way, no, no, no. If you really want to look at people who actually got it together, see if there is anything material or physical that really gives them that lasting sense of having it together. Even if you don't have your personal disappointment, just look around.
There is nothing in the world that can complete you. The sense of completeness comes from investigation of the sense of luck. If there is a sense of luck, look into it. If there is a sense of I'm not enough, there is a void, or something's not right, or I'm not there yet, I need to get something, there is something to happen yet. I didn't have the great realization or whatever they are telling me, I didn't get it, I should have, just look into it. Those are all stories standing in the way of realizing that absolutely baseless, tasteless emptiness that is underlying everything. Emptiness that is conscious, noting everything.
It's never not here. On that, all the concepts, feelings, energies appear. On that, the ideas appear. There is a buzzing energy and then the label comes. Yeah, it doesn't feel quite right. Oh, it must be this. Oh, it must be that. And then the world is constructed. The whole universe, the whole new dream comes from that interpretation of the raw energy. In the same way the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling happens, it also is based in the way that the device here, the software here and the computer there interprets, comparing with the memory. But that one is not a source of suffering. We do not have to deconstruct the way the world is being perceived because that does not cause the suffering.
The dream is totally to be enjoyed. It's just the interpretation, the narrative. This is I, this is me, this is happening to me, or this is not happening to me. It should be happening. I deserved it or I am unworthy. Any story with the me as the main character, with the me that is not good enough, that is limited, is the story to be seen through. And in seeing through the story, it may not drop away instantaneously. It may still hang on there for a moment. But when you know the truth, you see that story coming up, just give it a smile. It's just like seeing Santa today.
You go to the supermarket and you see a big fat guy with a couple of pillows and red clothing on it and a white beard and you smile. Kids are happy. You know it's not real. You know it's not going to bring you anything or give you anything. In the same way, when the story comes up, yes, but they disrespect you or they don't like me or I didn't get what I deserved or whatever the story is, you just look at it in the same way as you look at any other story that has been questioned and has been demystified. You know, oh yeah, okay, the Santa again.
And you give a smile, it's not serious. And that's the joy of knowing the truth and the truth will set you free because knowing it even for a moment, even if for one little moment, if you remember anything in life that you've seen true. Let say there was a coat hanging in a dark room and the mind was making all sorts of stories and creating all sorts of fears and responses Oh there is someone oh it going to hurt me it a murderer it a thief And then the light went on and right that fine Then you can put the light off and you're not going to be able to believe it again.
You know the truth about it or the monster under the bed or the snake and the rope or the mirage. When you see through it, even for a moment, it may still appear as real as ever, but you're not going to believe it unconditionally ever again. It is known for what it is. And it sounds deceiving when I say you see through it. It's not the you, the narrative you, the constructed self that is going to see through the constructed self. Because how can that do? How can that happen? Whatever is seen through is an object. And the constructed self is an object. So the object cannot see the object.
And the object cannot see itself. The recognition happens just the same way as it happens in the case of the coat in the dark room, or snake in a robe, or Santa Claus. It's not the Santa that recognizes the Santa, it's not the rope that recognizes the rope. But the recognition is there. The recognition comes from beyond the rope, or beyond the Santa, or beyond the self, beyond the narrative. So when that is recognized, when you see how the narrative, the story of me, the construct of me comes into existence, you see what it is, you obviously not it. You are beyond what you are observing.
If you believe you are your body, you are observing your body, you may not see your face, but the rest of the body you can very easily observe. So that's not who you are. You are knowing about it, you are conscious about it. This is an it, an object. So what is the subject? I wonder if, because I see, did you want to say something, Bob? No, okay. Yeah, I see he is waving the hands. I didn't know what was happening, sorry. Yeah, so you look within and you look what is there to be observed and as through being observed, it will be discard as an object.
You are seeing the body, you are obviously not the body, because you are aware of the body, the body is changing. You are seeing thoughts, you are aware of the thoughts. You are aware of your past memories. You are aware of the feelings. You are aware of vulnerability, sensitivity. You are aware of your most cherished secrets. So you're not even that, you're not even your most cherished secrets, the things that you are most ashamed of and want to hide from the world. You can't be that if you are aware of it. So what is it that is aware of everything that passes through the awareness, through that consciousness, that open field of knowing?
Can you even find it? Can that even ever be found? When you realize that whatever you find, whatever you are aware of is an object. So what is it? The answer is silence. If you find the answer in words, that's not the right answer. You ask what is it, what is seeing and you look back and you can't see anything, you can't even see the darkness, you can't see, you know, the world is out in front of here. But what is there? Can't say. Absolutely nothing that can be experienced or perceived or sensed, nothing. It is nothing. Same with hearing. There is a sound coming out from the whole field, from every direction.
But what is behind? What is actually behind that wall or that space of silence or the sounds? Again, nothing can be said about it. There is nothing there. Again, diving into the body and finding all the sensations, finding all the vibrations, all the buzzing life, all the whatever the labels you put on it. What's behind it? What's knowing it? What's aware of it? What's aware of anything that can be perceivable, conceivable or experienceable? Nothing. Nothing can be said about it. Nothing can be found in it. Because whatever you find, you are aware of. So that's the mystery of singularity. In the way we usually perceive the world, we perceive the world as a subject-object division.
Everything, there is a world out there and there is me here watching it. There is a sound out there and there is me hearing it. There are sights out there and there is me seeing them or there are thoughts and there is me thinking them. That's the way the world is being constructed by the mind, always divided into the subject-object relationship. And the truth is there is no subject without object. So there are not two. That's totally nonsensical to think about the sound if there is no one hearing it. It's totally impossible. If there is no ear, if there is no one who hears it, you can't say there is a sound.
There isn't one. They totally depend on one another. So constructing the world in which there is me and the other. If I know that if there is no me, there is no knowledge of the other. There may be a potentiality, but there is no actuality of the other. So, the dualistic world constructed by the mind is to be seen through. Because there is nothing dualistic about plain experiencing if the mind is not translating it into the relationship of subject-object. The seeing is happening, there is appearing happening, the just dancing of appearances, appearing, seeing is happening. Now in that seeing the mind comes up, oh this is the world and this is me, they are objects and I am subjects.
Those are concepts. Without those concepts seeing is happening just as it ever did. But there is no division now. There is no dividing line here. This is me up to the end of the skin and this is not me outside of the skin. This only comes with thought. Without the thought, there is just seeing, awareness of the seeing. With whatever the content of the seeing is, one unified field of seeing with different shapes, forms, patterns, colours, whatever it is, That's a singular world, the first generation sort of a dream in which in the seeing, seeing is arising, seeing is the content of seeing is dancing and changing.
And it is a singular process. And in the same way hearing, in the same way thinking. Even the constructing, the thinking in which the world is being constructed, even that is singular. Judging, worrying, Fearing, it is all singular activity. So coming back to that singularity means straight away being rid of the me. And what goes with being rid of the me, the personal aspect is gone. Now seeing is happening, but it's not personal anymore. It is not me seeing and I should be seeing something prettier or something better. It's not me hearing and the noise is too loud or too low. It's just totally impersonal happening, totally impersonal dancing of the This is the miracle of forms and emptiness.
With thinking is the same. Thinking is happening. Even if the thinking says, oh shit, you know, they're gonna keep bopping this damn rehab for another week. That is impersonal. The thought is arising. It's totally impersonal thought. It doesn't cause any suffering. Even if that comes with the emotion. This is all welcome, this is all part of the thinking, singular thinking. But ten years ago or even seven years ago it would cause the huge response and it would cause huge suffering. Oh, it shouldn't be this way or this is wrong or this is happening to me and the universe is not supportive or whatever it is.
Right now, everything as it always appeared, it continues to appear, but it's not personal, nothing's personal. And that's the lightness of it. We had someone on the Sunday meeting who realized that impersonality of the world, But it almost came in his case to the point of this associative disorder the psychological condition which is considered a disease Because there was no joy. There was a subtle judgment in everything like, oh shit, what's the point? So, what? Yeah, life is meaningless. Of course it is meaningless. This sort of a... and I heard it before with people who were so attached to the concept of emptiness They basically hypnotized themselves only conceptually into being worshippers of the nothingness and emptiness.
And they were unhappy. They were cut off from the joy of life, from the beauty of life. Because they were so cut off from the body and from the heart center, just sitting in the top of the head, yes, that's empty, yes, that's meaningless, yes, that's bullshit, yes, that's all dream, yes, that's all fake. Shit! I was gonna bow down to the guy that, oh my gosh, how long you are in there and you didn't jump off the highest building? Please, my gosh, what's the point? This is one of the traps of the mind. It's never gone out of the mind. The understanding that everything is empty and meaningless has nothing to do with knowing first-handed fully the truth of your own being, the fullness, the love, the brilliance, the radiance of your own existence, the miraculousness of your own existence.
This does not come from the head. Saying, yes, that's right, nature of everything is empty. Yeah, that's correct. But this is not depressing anymore. Yes, it is all dream, it is all constructed. This is not depressing anymore. It is actually, wow, this is magnificent. It's wonderful. Yes, it is empty. Hurray! Nothing has a meaning. How brilliant! And yet it shows up and it just stares at your eyes with the love and the beauty and the joy and the whole dance. That is coming from rather from the heart, from the gut, from the essence of being. Not the place of conceptual understanding that yes, I know, I believe you, yep, that is empty, that's nothing, that's bullshit, yes, that's meaningless.
Wow, that's not it. I mean, it might be helpful to understand conceptually, initially, that yes, there is nothing solid and substantial in the way the world appears. Everything is interdependent on everything else. There is no separation as such. Nothing has any independent nature. Nothing can stand on its own. It is true and it may initially be helpful. But if you stop there and you stay in that, attached to that intellectual understanding, ouch, I don't know, What else would you call suffering? I think this guy was suffering. It was heartbreaking to see that, yes, you can get stuck with certain concepts, philosophical concepts, you can know them very well.
And to a certain extent, it became a reality, just the same way as for the devout Christian, Catholic angels are reality and devils are reality. They are totally a reality. They totally are. Because they are believed so unconditionally. And for people believing in the conspiracy, that's a reality. That's happening. So really dropping out of the conceptual understanding of the head of what we know into that void, into that primordial call, is that call, that sense of I'm not good enough, there's something wrong, there's something inherently not right, I'm not there yet, I'm not complete, this is something else to be heard or to be found.
That calling for investigation, calling for finding the completeness, this is the calling, just look where it comes from, because the solution is not going to be outside, not in the concepts, not in the philosophies not in the understanding how the world comes into existence or how How empty it is or what it means interdependent co or other concepts That one is not going to feel that void, just look straight into it and see what's there. Just be present because that very uncomfortability or that sense of void or incompleteness, that is a calling. Just the same way when there is a pain in the body, and I love when Bob is explaining this one, the pain is a call for attention.
Something has to be done in the body. Let's say there is a scratch or there is a wound or there is an achy stomach. There is a call for... I'll just... Sorry for that. So that calling from seemingly within, because even within without is a concept. Like, you know, if the body is part of the world and it's inseparable from the world, it arises with the world, it grows with the world. It's like you can see how even if we just for the sake of pointing use the idea of time and use the idea that this body came into existence some time ago and it was growing through that time.
It was growing through exchanging the energy with the universe, with the rest of the world constantly. The food that the parents were eating when the fetus was growing in the womb and the water they were drinking and the air they were breathing. When the body came into existence, all the cells are rebuilt from the food that is eaten, and again, the energy and the ionization of the air, and of course the interaction of the body. So it is totally, totally interdependent. The body and the world are all arising as part of the manifestation. So there is no inside-outside, within-without as such. But as a pointer, it is good enough to say, okay, don't look outside your skin.
Don't look within your skin either, because if you look between the ribs, it's not going to be anything interesting there. I mean, it's going to be maybe interesting, but not fulfilling, not completing. But yes, the answer is where is that call coming from? Where is that void, that incompleteness? Just stay with that call, with that sense and see what it is, why it is there, what is the calling. Being, being present with that primordial veil, what veils you, what keeps you away from recognizing the pure perfection that is always there, the completeness, the absoluteness of being. Being is absolute, is complete. There is nothing wrong in the being.
There is nothing deficient, there is nothing void, and there is nothing like inadequate or unlovable about it. And in that pure perfection, that veil of no, that's not enough, there is something there in the heart or in the solar plexus or in the gut, something calling, the arising of that void, that I'm not there yet, that's not it, there will have to be something more. There has to be something to get, something to understand, something to extinguish that angst. And you see, you look at that angst and you are with it completely present. You totally let it be with open curiosity. You're already beyond that.
You are that pure perfection of being, allowing that veil or that hole, that black hole to appear. And you witnessing it, you casting the light on that darkness, on that shadow. And see how long it is that gonna last. And be with that as long as you have to, as often as you have to, until you may find it never arising again. And that same principle is around the illness or any sort of injury of the physical body. The same principle calling for the balance in the energy with the emotion. If there is a heartbreak or if there is a fear or there is any raw energy moving, if that energy gets somehow stuck in the form of a knot in the gut or lump in the throat or sort of a fist in the solar plexus, That is the contraction of the energy witnessing it with all the curiosity with pure light of that conscious awareness without judgment without resistance without feeling running away distracting yourself from it And you see that this is all it ever needs for the healing to happen.
Just complete presence with that non-judgmental light of the consciousness. And it subsides. And in the absence of it, it's like the way our Buddhists sometimes describing what enlightenment is like. If you keep hammering your head and then you stop, or if you walk thousand miles with the stone in your shoe and then you take the shoe off and throw the stone away, that's what it is. The sense of suffering, the sense of incompleteness, unworthiness, the human condition, and then suddenly it is not. Initially it feels like bliss, like overwhelming bliss, the peace that passes all understanding, oh what a delicious nectar. But really, after a while, when that sense of the contrast of suffering fades away a little bit, it doesn't even feel that blissful anymore because it only feels blissful in a contrast to the suffering.
Day is only bright in a contrast to the dark night. So the dark night of the soul, human condition, human suffering, the limitation, contraction of being deficient, of being not enough, being limited, not having all I need and dropping off that bag of heavy, dense concepts feels like suddenly you're going to take off and start flying. But after a while it becomes quite ordinary. It's just the ordinary awareness. Only the suffering doesn't re-establish itself in the same way. And if it does, maybe that's even better yet, because that lightness, when it subsides, when it's investigated, is again experienced even more due to contrast. The joy, the bliss, when the contraction comes there and then it subsides again.
In many cases, that is how the life experiences and expresses itself. There is no realization in a way like the selfing stops, you know, the way you kept smoking, for example, for 20 years. I've been smoking for 15 years and then I stopped and I can tell you exactly when it happened, Exactly which moment smoking stopped. In the same way, I can tell you exactly a precise moment in which the selfing stopped. But for many, many people it doesn't really happen this way. They smoke cigarette once every now and then on the party and then they don't smoke. And then they smoke again and then they don't smoke.
And which one is right? Every way the life expresses is uniquely different and precious. Whether there is one big experience, smoking drops away, or there is no one big experience, smoking comes and goes, whatever it is, you can be the witnessing consciousness for that smoking or that selfing coming in and out of the picture. Ultimately, as that witnessing consciousness, you are never selfing. Selfing only comes and goes. Identifying as a body-mind only comes and goes. And that's not you. Even if that feels personal, even if it is as personal as ever, that's just a dream. Who you are, ultimately, who you are in the deep sleep, When there is no dreams, there is no selfing, there is no creating, constructing the world, there is no dreaming, there is nothing wrong, there is nothing that can be harmed, there is nothing that needs to wake up.
That depth of potentiality, you can't even call it existence because there is no awareness of existence, or there is no memory or conscious awareness of existence. It doesn't really matter how it is called. That which can't even be said to exist or to not exist can't be harmed. It can only express as a thing, experience itself as a thing, and there is nothing wrong in any way it expresses or experiences. Because the only one who says that something's right or wrong is the narrative. And there is nothing wrong even in having narrative saying that. It's just it hurts when it's unrecognized. And it doesn't. It makes it light and funny when it is recognized.
So that's really it. I mean, I'm talking for an hour, so please join in, say something. Maybe you have something to share, how maybe you could return to that understanding, you know, like even doing a regular thing, you know, cooking a breakfast and then suddenly it opened up and, oh, yeah, right. I Am That, body is cooking, the hands are doing, cutting bread, whatever. And then everyone who hears that, oh, that's a good point. That's practical. Okay. And maybe tomorrow, somebody else will be doing breakfast and realize, oh, shit, yeah. Yeah, that's right. I can totally relate to it. So that is when the community really helps because we can inspire each other into finding those moments of realising how practical it is in a daily life, in a moment to moment.
Or something opened up, oh look, you know, I could never really get that point there, nothing has ever happened. And then suddenly it kind of become clear, you're right, you know, what have ever happened apart from the story. So, if there is anything that you could say contribute, you know, it's just, it's really about if there's anything that works for you, don't keep it, just yeah, just be selfless about it. Don't keep it for yourself. The greatest gift is to be able to share it and to see that it may actually ease the suffering in someone. It is the self-love too, because there's nothing but self.
So if you have anything that could really, you know, even if you don't know if that is going to help or not, but there's a slim chance that it will. Just give that self-love to yourself in others and please unmute yourself and say something. Bob is with us all the time. Just so you know, he's there. So I did something that you told me that you talk about today. I did it actually. I got entangled in these thoughts and something happened and I was like, I was in the story. Then I thought, okay, so why am I believing in me again? So I was believing in myself.
I was thinking, ah, bullshit, there is a me. If there is no me, then who is this suffering? I am really not happy. So who is this suffering to? And I said, okay, bullshit. And then I said, I saw, I decided, okay, I'm going to just keep believing in me. And I just kept looking, kept like, kept believing in me. And then it went away. Like I didn't, I didn't logically remove me from the situation. I said, okay, there's a me, that's why I'm suffering. But then it sort of became clear by itself. That's what you said, isn't it? Yes, yes, yes, just yes, beautiful.
See, thank you for that. This is really a beautiful pointer. The moment you actually start looking and you pause for a moment, you stop for a moment. Oh, and it comes by itself. The inquiry comes by itself. I am just showing Bob on both sides of the camera. Yes, so in moment-to-moment situation, even before that angst or that uneasiness, that phenomenal feedback mechanism of the body, you know, when the body is uneasy, there is a resistance. That's, oh my gosh, wonderful. Now I know to have a little pause just for a moment. Oh, what's happening? Oh, I'm in the story. Who is it happening to?
Oh, yeah, that moment of slowing down and just taking a quick look. And with that curious look, that curiosity, curiosity is an openness. I had this couple of conversations but one with the guy that he sometimes comes up here I should have probably remind him to come to Zoom but he has this really persistent anxiety disorder with the depression. He's calling Bob even though Bob is in the hospital but it's kind of quiet and he came down to actually hear Bob's voice. He says, yes, you told me to just stay and be curious about this energy and then I called Gilbert and he told me the same and then Bob told me the same but you know what, I found myself that I said, okay, fine, I do it and it works.
And so yesterday I tried as well and didn't work. And I don't know for how long I should be looking, you know, like 10 minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour, I don't know, it kind of seems like it's not always working. That's the method. And then he says, you know, her mother or someone wanted to put him on antidepressants or antipsychotic medications. He said, no, I prefer to use Bob's method. And I said, whoops. That's that's so that's how hard and difficult it is to point beyond the language using words. Bob doesn't have the method. It is not an easy fix for unpleasant sensation. It is not something that you do as a doer.
I am the doer now. I'm going to be looking at something for 15 minutes. Faster, faster, go away. Okay, five minutes more. Oh shit, I don't want to be looking that long. Come on, can you accelerate the method? That's not an investigation. I ask him, can you see what's your attitude? You are having a very, very strong agenda for that nasty bug to be killed. That's violent resistance. That's not even a curiosity. What the life essence, what that incredible miracle of life is putting in front of you to actually look at and marvel at. To embrace it, to heal it, to give it a light of your conscious precious attention, to dissolve that darkness.
Your attitude is to, oh yeah, I want to get rid of that shit so quickly, quickly. How long I'm going to look? How long more am I going to look? Oh my gosh, I say, look, can you actually see that? Because I ask him to describe the feeling, to locate it in the body, To give it a shape and the form just to maintain the curiosity. Okay, so he couldn't have any curiosity about it. I say, but I'm curious. Can you actually tell me how big is that contraction? Is it the size of a fist or is it the size of a tennis ball or is it the size of the football?
Just yeah, just have a look, just check it out for me. And then I ask him to check up this and check up the density and is it heavy? Is it vibrating? Is it moving? You know, Just really, really giving attention to that persistent, resisted uneasiness. And as he was doing it, I say, can you see how different the attitude is when we are doing it together? And by the way, how is that contraction right now? And he says, yeah, it's nearly gone, but it will come back. I say yes, so could you actually, and he has the dog and he loves the dog. Initially, I wanted to actually call that shadow a little inner child or something, but I realized he doesn't have children, he's not going to relate to it, he loves dogs.
So I say, okay, imagine if that contraction, that darkness there, that whatever it is, that could be a childhood trauma, whatever, we don't even need to label it. Let's say that Being, that form of energy, if that is a dog that you care for, aren't you genuinely curious in that open embracing, allowing, accepting energy for that dog to be there? Are you going to kick him down to the basement and shut the door? And when the dog is screaming for attention, you're going to plug your ears off? No, he says. I say, and you do it to your own heart. You do it to yourself.
That very feeling, calling, and his depression, his anxiety is serious. Like he says, if not for the dog, he would be dead long ago. But he knows the dog is going to suffer. He knows that dog is going to miss him. You know, like really, it's not an easy fix. And anyway he actually did hear the analogy of the dog And I say look and you have the dog in the basement Occasionally the dog is calling for attention Can you actually attend to it Can you attend to it? Can you give it that at least the benefit of doubt? Okay, what do you want? And hear it, listen to it, give it that light of attention, the consciousness.
Don't resist it further, don't shut it down, don't reject because everything that appears in the field of awareness or consciousness is the absolute. This is God, this is the way the life essence expresses and experiences itself. It is not good or bad, it's not desirable, undesirable, pleasant, unpleasant. Forget about that. There is something calling for attention, especially if it calls from your own heart. Because that anxiety, that sadness, it was the darkness he would experience in his own chest. And everyone, he's got everyone advising him, the parents, friends are all gone because nobody wants to deal with the energies, the heaviness like this. So it's hardly any friend ever.
If anyone shows up and give him attention, oh come on, just binge on the TV, just ignore it, distract yourself from it. And I say, well, you know, it is not a bad solution as a temporary solution. You may distract yourself for an hour or for a week, but does it really work long term? Does it actually cause healing or it will come back? He says not only it comes back, it comes back stronger. I say, yeah, that poor little doggy that you love and care shut down in the basement is screaming, crying, and you keep ignoring it. So it starts barking, it starts breaking everything down there in the basement.
It will find the ways that won't be healthy, but it will get that attention. So After an hour of a call, he actually did feel much better. But of course, I say, look, how long are you having that condition? A few years. So this is not going to be a final therapy. This is not going to work tomorrow. Habitually, your whole brain is wired in the way. And this is a familiarity for you to reestablish the condition. I am asking you, will you be able to see the situation again in the same light as something that is really begging for your love, for your non-judgmental attention?
Will you be able to return? If you don't, give me a call. If I'm not at work, I'll pick it up or call Bob. But just give it as much as it wants. You may need 100 hours, you may need 15 minutes, you may need years. Who cares? This is your own heart calling for healing, calling for attention. Don't turn away. And this is what selflessness does. Why would you want to, you know, you have that neglected part of yourself. It could be, you know, like old abuse or trauma or something. That is really calling for help. And we know that even the typical sort of a boring science, you know, everyone is willing to give and help the other if they are strong and safe and happy.
And no one is willing to give and help if they are in danger and unhappy and miserable, because then they just tend to themselves. So this is himself who needs himself. And now whatever we defined as a self, because obviously there is a very, very strong identification and there is a very, very strong sensation of that divided parts within, you know. I did also ask him, are you only sad? Do you ever experience any other aspects of the totality within yourself? And of course, of course he does. We are all the totality. There is no one there who would not be experiencing all spectrum of feelings, maybe not with the same intensity because again, the machinery is tuned differently.
Some people seem predominantly joyous and some predominantly depressed, but even they have a full range of the scale between the black and white, all shades of grey and all colours. So please, if you have anything that you could bring up on that token of what helps or what works or what maybe doesn't sit right, please just unmute yourself and share. Kat I struggle I think I get a bit confused because I feel like you know there no doer so can you give someone a practice to do Like you know will what unfolding just unfold anyway Does that make sense Absolutely. Thank you for the question.
Beautiful. You're just bringing more clarity to the whole thing. Absolutely, you can't give the practice what needs to unfold will unfold. And what have unfolded, he gave me a call. I've never seen the guy. And he gave me a call. This is how it unfolded. Now, if somebody is, let's say, overweight, and what unfolds for them is the gym membership as a Christmas gift. Can you give them in practice? No. But that's what unfolding. And thank you for bringing it up. Absolutely. It's not that, oh, you are a doer now, you sit and do that practice. That's, yeah, and thank you for bringing it. It really is important to highlight that this is exactly the part of unfolding.
The narrative will say, oh, now the next thing you're going to tell me to sit in a meditation for one hour, then a night and then chant mantra in between. Well, it may be part of the unfolding. I very much doubt that it's going to go through this mechanism. But who knows, you go somewhere else and that may be a part of unfolding. And that will be followed if there is a trust in the one who is inspiring people. That's part of an unfolding. What is not part of the unfolding is the narrative. So the narrative is the one that says, okay, I am the doer now and I will be doing that practice.
But the body gets inspired. Thank you for that. That's given me a lot of clarity because it's been something's been, I've had a bit of confusion over because I actually work as a energy practitioner with the subconscious mind and, you know, sometimes I kind of think, Oh, you know, who am I trying to help? And I have all this confusion, but the way you've explained it really helps. It's just an unfolding and it could be part of the process to whatever anyway, but it's a narrative that comes in and puts a story on it. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, and what a beautiful work you're doing, you know, working with the energy, with healing, with bringing balance.
That's the calling, that's how the life unfolded through you and the right people who actually need that life kind of put them on the path and it finds, you know, it all resolves. But now you can tell the story that, oh yes, and it is a fascinating stories to tell as well. I'm going to tell as well. How did they get to you? How did they find you? How did they hear about you? They are all sweet stories and it feels like, oh, I did this and then I met that one and I decided to do this and I got that book and I read it.
In the narrative, it sounds like a lot of doing, a lot of deciding. In the narrative, it always sounds this way. But without the narrative, that's just what life does. That's how it unfolds. You've just helped me so much. I was really like having a little bit of a pop around that. Like you've given me so much clarity. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I got a question that a friend of mine asked today and I didn't know how to answer it, Kat. I don't really know what nihilism is. But he was like saying that like when we were chatting, he's like, it sounds like nihilism or something.
And I'm like, I don't know how to differentiate between nihilism and what we're talking about. I don't quite know exactly what it is either. Any of you guys know? I think that I've heard that sort of criticism. Ernie, do you know? I see you on mute. Sorry, I forgot the question. Nihilism. Something they said, you know, and I heard that criticism towards Nisargadatta or towards Advaita or towards some paths of Buddhism that this is nihilistic. It means it is denying some sort of... Oh, nihilism, okay. Nihilism, not nihilism, but just nihilism. Oh, nihilism or nihilism, alright. Yes. Okay, thank you. It says here, it is a philosophy of family of views within philosophy that rejects general or fundamental aspect of human existence, such as objective truth, knowledge, morality, values or meaning.
Yes, so I could say yes, absolutely, there is everything that we are actually
The way we are discussing is objective, we are seeing as an object. But the way we understand the word objective is slightly different to the way objective is commonly understood. Objective in common language means real. In our language it means it's an object, it's a passing phenomenon. So in a way, is there objective morality? How do you feel? Is there objective morality? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I am not sure if I am saying this in a very objective way, but I think it is a very subjective morality. You can see how subjective it is really, how it is subject to the more general agenda of the group.
The nihilism is also denying objective truth. That is not exactly what we say. Because there is something that you can't deny and we do call it truth. And that's the fact of your own existence. We are not denying the fact of your own existence. We may be deconstructing existence of objects as such They can't stand on their own. They depend on the rest of the multitude factors. The whole universe creates every object. That cup is the universe. There is the clay, the paint, the work of the people who created it. There is the factories, the rice fields because those people ate some food and all that stuff is sitting in that one cup.
So it is not really that objective and that existing as such. But my own existence, I can't deny. I can say it is also dependent on many, many infinite amount of factors. But regardless of that, I can't say I am not. So that's where this is not really nihilistic, because that's the truth. That's the base. And Damaso says he has to go. Okay, yeah, I see. It's almost nine. So I would say that's the difference. I don't know, there probably is more to it. But again, see, that's also what happened on that Sunday meeting. You've seen that, that guy who was actually experiencing that emptiness of, of his understanding of the emptiness.
That yeah, okay, it is all empty, but that's kind of, he was even using words which then he was pulled out that there is a negative judgment put on those. You remember, Julia, that? Yes, so that was, that was sort of a nihilistic approach that he had, that the emptiness is all there is, everything is nothing, and that's it. There is no flip side to that coin because everything is nothing. Where is the fullness? Okay, so the difference is that with the nonduality we see that everything is nothing, but we also see that nothing is everything. Yes, and also we see that there is a fullness in emptiness.
The emptiness is a radiant life. It is that brilliance of that, I love when Bob calls it, you know, one essence expressing, patterning, shaping, forming and appearing as everything. So that is a radiance of life, the prolific brilliance of that dance, the total lovability of that manifestation, Even though it is an appearance, even though it doesn't have solidity, it's fluid, it's really fluid, it's constantly changing, it's impermanent. But the other side, you know, we are not really... and then again it sounds stupid when I say what we do. There is no such thing as we and our philosophy or our shared viewpoint. It is really dropping off the philosophies and beliefs and viewpoints and diving to the bottom of the experience.
And then if someone stays in that intellectual top of the head understanding that everything is nothing and everything in this nothing has the meaning and everything is empty and the world has no sense no point and no goal and no direction nothing Yeah that may be his experience nihilism But when you really drop out from that heavy sort of belief self and experience the fullness of life, the juiciness of life, there is nothing nihilistic about it. Like when you look at Bob and you look at... I can see, I'm not holding the phone just because you're gonna see just the tip of his head. I see here is just the tip of the head and the headphones.
Oh, a little, yes darling, thank you. Yes, and you see the serenity and you see the love and you see the compassion and you see his availability for all of the time. What's nihilistic about it? What's unlovable about it? I'm not talking about it. That's really, you get into the heart of the essence, and in that heart of the essence, there is a fullness, brilliance, joy, joy that is to be shared, joy that is to be given away, highlighted, brought to the world, given back to the world, to itself because you are the world. So that really we believing in nihilistic non-think world, the assumptions everywhere are wrong.
That there is a we, that there is a believing and that there is a and whatever the content of belief is. All of that is just, I think you gave that person the best answer you could possibly give them. I don't really know what you're talking about. Sorry, sorry, I can't answer that. I mean, you know, what's your direct experience? And eventually I can share if you're interested my direct experience. Does it feel like it's a dead sort of empty, mechanistic, cold, unhappy sort of fake setup? I don't know, not to me, no. Because that would be nihilistic. Everything is empty of meaning. Everything is empty of truth.
Everything is empty of love. Everything is cold. And no, that's not my experience. And you look at Bob, he is the best demonstration. And I tell you, I live with him. That's totally not the experience. He is the most joyous, radiant, childlike, beautiful creature who is always serene and always light, always at peace. There's nothing dead, cold and nihilistic about it. Yeah, that's beautiful. But in my case, like, okay, like, you know, all this narrative, like, few days ago, like, you know, the body experience, like, feels like you're not being treated equal. Yeah, people like treating you like you're nobody. And then all of a sudden, you're identified.
And you can't, and you are so engrossed that you can't even see it and you can't observe it. There's no seeing anymore. You just simply identify with your body. And then after a while, then you suddenly get, oh, what happened to this thing? Like, you're everything like it flies out of the window. There's a lot of narrative going on, oh she's giving me the bad look and then it's crazy. But sometimes, most of the times, you get caught in it that you don't have a space to look at it like yourself because you're one with it, with your anger and you can feel the constriction, the contraction of your body, even your body shaking.
So that means you're identified I am identified with your body. And then after that, after five minutes, you just kind of... No, when the body is at one, when there is the body, the energy, the volcano erupting through the body, the anger going, at this point, there usually is no narrative that, oh yeah, I am identified now with the body. Usually at this point there is no problem with me being separate from the body and the anger and identifying with the body or the anger. It usually comes later. Oh, I was identified. Oh, I've completely forgot to be cool and detached. See, in the moment of heat, in that moment where you see even when you fight with someone, even when you fight verbally or you fight by fists, all the attention is tending to whatever the requirement of environment is.
It may be run it may be fight it may be whatever it is At this point there is no narrative because the whole attention is required for that anger for that boiling volcano So there is no problem at this point The problem comes and this is the same happens when you watch the animals You watch the dog passing the other dog and suddenly they got furious and they start barking at each other like hell And there's no problem, oh my God, I got identified, oh my God, I shouldn't have. No, in this moment when it happens, it's just what's happening. The problem happens, the problem comes up few moments later.
The body is still shaking, the energy is still moving, there is still the vibration that didn't quite settle, the emotion still goes on. And then the narrative kicks in. I shouldn't have reacted this way, they shouldn't have done this. See, identification only happens on the level of narrative. Without the narrative there is no you to be identified or not identified. It is only in that overlay of thinking that the I exists. When you are in the middle of the fight, you don't have any energy, any attention available to construct that I. So there is no problem. The problem only arises when the thinking arises, when the commentary arises.
Only then you can investigate the problem. I'm really sorry that you have to go through it. Of course, if you are being bullied and people are putting nasty labels on you, that situation is on one hand much more difficult to remember the truth and to come back to the heart. But on another hand, that situation may actually be really supportive for the investigation Because in the moment when you are being bullied or being labeled or being unfairly treated, you don't construct that self, you construct it when you can, when you are safe, when nobody's throwing knives at you, then you are constructing that. Especially when they have a very very strong image of you.
Like let's say you have a whole crowd of people and they all think you are a useless asshole and now suddenly, oh yeah, they all think that, so they must be right. Now you can see in that extreme situation, and look, I really wish you that it is not that extreme because As much as it can be supportive for the awakening, because that's how it was for me when my label was just so extremely uncomfortable that I can't not see through it. I still think it's just much more gently and much more loving to actually have it a little bit lighter, you know, like have that label a little bit lighter.
But you know that whatever they think of you and whatever you think of you is not who you are. Because you don't think that all the time. Yeah, but mostly part of the energy is lost in thinking after that, because, oh shit, it's probably me because I tend too much attention. Wait, this body is already, it was been gone to a series of like, you know, being reared up as a Catholic and be good and I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't retaliate. And all those things and comes into mind. It's just too much energy. But it happens very quick, instantaneous, like in a split second, all those things.
And then it's just the energy is just depleted. And I'm just so tired. And then yeah. I mean, as opposed to the nihilism, which, you know, You know, like, okay, there's a funeral procession. Oh, there's nothing in there. And let's open some champagne. But this thing I've, you know, I feel I've expressed, I feel it, you know, these things like, this is me. Yeah, but I, you know, but there is this identification with the body, you need this embodied existence. Yeah, so Yes, so you actually notice that and that's wonderful, that's a great beginning. Notice how quickly the narrative comes in and constructs the story whenever something happens to the body.
Because when it happens, it doesn't come up with that story. You don't shoot on yourself when you are in danger. You do it later. So just notice how the narrative comes later. And it is irrelevant what happened before. It analyzes what happened before and creates the story of what happened before. But see how the body looks after itself, how the dog is barking on another dog and then is stopping barking at another dog. It doesn need the narrative The narrative comes oh I shouldn be I shouldn react or they should treat me they shouldn or they should or they will All that should should would do all that stuff comes only as an after story And you're right, it comes very, very quickly.
It comes like this, you know? Whatever happens, right away, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, commentary. Just like when you watch the football game. They kick the ball and the commentaries straight away, oh, did you see, he just kicked the ball. Oh, he just missed the goal. Whatever is happening, the narrative very quickly, whenever it can, it follows and it feels like, oh yeah, now this is me, this is me talking, this is I, I am the narrative. But you are not the narrative, you are hearing the narrative, you are the awareness of the narrative. Just watch that narrative, see how quickly it comes and just listen to what it says.
You rightfully noticed very quickly whenever you are safe and you don't have to avoid that flying knives and fight or whatever, it comes straight away. The moment the anger is over, you stop yelling at someone or responding or whatever, narrative straight away kicks in very quickly, invisibly. Just pay attention to it, how it happens, how is it triggered, see how mechanical it is. The moment it can, straight away it kicks in. And as you watch it, you are the watching, you are the witnessing consciousness and the narrative is just what comes and goes. See how the identification with the narrative happens? When you see how it happens, you will know how mechanical it is again.
It's not an easy thing. Most of the time, initially, you won't even pick it up. But when you pick it up, just open the champagne and celebrate. Yeah, the problem with this is that, you know, in the next day or whatever day, The brain somehow recorded these things and then by the time you go to work, the brain again starts anticipating, like, hmm, is it going to, you know, the narrative again. Yes. Anyway. Yes, yes. Yeah, initially it is even noticing the narrative, you know, for I don't know how much, maybe 20 years of my life, I wasn't even aware that there is a constant narrative.
I didn't even know. I remember working at sea with one of the most admired captains I was working with, a British guy. Really brilliant. His brain was huge. He knew all the history in one small finger. I asked him once about, I don't even know how it came about, but I just mentioned that, you know, in the, that is the commentary that you are commenting or you're talking to yourself. And he looked at me like an idiot. He was probably 68 or 70, late 60s. And he says, are you nuts? I don't talk to myself. And I say, oh, okay, just watch yourself for today evening and maybe tomorrow the day and when I see you next time, just, yeah, just verify it, okay?
Because I find it highly unlikely that you would be one of the eight billions who didn't develop that habit. You probably do, you just don't pay attention to it. And lo and behold, next day the guy's 70s, in his 70s, or late 60s, he says, you know what, I got so pissed off with myself, I decided I'm not going to be talking with myself ever again. And I said, well, good luck with that, we can come back to it tomorrow. And of course, he was so pissed off discovering that he is narrating, that he decided I'm not going to be talking to this guy again, and he doesn't do it, it happens.
So if you, Ernie, I don't know, you half his age, if not more, and you already noticed the narrative, believe me, you have upper hand in the game. So just reward yourself every time you even notice it, even post-factum, because a lot of people live and die, not even realizing there is a commentary going in their head all of the time or most of the time. And I think it's quarter past nine and Bob is kind of looking from top of the... And thank you everyone. I was really hoping he will be physically with us tonight, but next week, Tuesday, at least that's the plan for the day.
It's another week from now he's going to be released. So, and thank you everyone for being here. Thank you, Kurt. Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Kurt and Bob. Thank you, Kurt and Bob. All the best, Bob. Thank you. Love to all. Love you. Bye.