This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Topic of nothing or topic of silence. Let's make some noise about silence. Speak words about what's beyond words. Or move around about stillness. Or look at forms, how they point back to space. Because ultimately it is what's beyond the senses. It's not entirely because we couldn't hear the noise if the noises weren't interrupted by gaps. The whole idea of sound is that it is vibration, it is a movement. In the first place, silence is a movement. If there was a kind of a still noise, the brain would select it out and wouldn't be heard. So silence is a pointer. It's not about being quiet or looking for gaps.
It might be helpful, but it really is a pointer. Because silence is included in all the sound anyway. This is the necessary condition for the sound to be understood as sound, that it vibrates, that it goes up and down. So silence as a pointer is the silence which is beyond the quiet and the noisy. The low volume and the high volume is the silence which is neither a low volume, no high volume. It is the silence that is like a screen for the sound. And we can't even say that it exists, that the silence or the screen exists, because it doesn't really. We say that silence is the basic screen, or the silence is the true nature.
But what is silence? Silence is the absence, is the nothing. So we can't say that it has an existence and we can't look for a thing called silence because it's not a thing. But it's a wonderful pointer. It's like falling in love with silence, finding solace in that space in which we don't need to hang on to a mobile phone or be in communication, constant chatter. In the first place, I would like to say that the The silence is very soothing. It is something that is soothing for the heart. For the mind it may be threatening, it may be boring, it may be intimidating, it may cause sense of uneasiness.
But when we drop down from that mind into that heart, the essence, the presence, that silence is really soothing, it's really home. It feels like home. And the same way as what is silence for the noises and sounds and communication and exchange of information and the flow of the connection, in the same way, Bob, he's predominantly visual, he uses the space. So, space, this is in the immediacy what we are seeing is space, but we are overlooking it, just the same way as we are overlooking the true nature, we are overlooking the fact of presence, of being. The space for the eye has nothing tangible to rest upon.
In the same way, the true nature of that plain being is intangible for any senses. It doesn't have any sensory quality. So just like the space for the eye, we're looking and we see through it and we rest on objects. The same way the true being or true nature or the Buddha essence or whatever, or presence of awareness, awareness of presence or consciousness is completely untraceable. It can't be, we can't get onto it, we can't taste it because it is the tasting principle. It is the knowing principle. So it can't be known. It's like the eye can't see itself, the ear can't hear itself, the tongue can't taste itself.
The consciousness itself is the knowing principle. It is beyond the knowing. But it is undeniable and returning to that undenialability of that essence, of that presence, of that stillness, that silence is what the nonduality is all about. Because once the conviction grows in that deliciousness of silence underlying everything, once the taste of it has been, the nectar has been tasted, it hasn't been tasted by the mind. That's where we are really in touch with the reality. That in us which is in love with silence which loves the silence which appreciates the peacefulness the spaciousness is not the mind Mind cannot appreciate it It cannot fall in love with that So that what is attracted to nonduality or is attracted to the pointing is, I like to call it hard, why not?
It's as good word as any, but it is the really the core of the essence, It is that which is beyond the thinking. Thinking is what actually obscures it. But what's beyond the thinking, what is even in the gap of thinking, that one is at home with itself. That one finds itself at home in silence. There is no anxiety for the heart when there is nothing going on, when there is no communication or no noise or no distraction. Quite the opposite is the blissful, restful deliciousness of presence. So if that is somehow not being experienced, Then there is probably one or the other degree of the veiling of the clouds of the mind.
So if instead of resting in that uncontrived singularity, in that blissfulness of silence, in touch with that spaciousness of peace that passes all understanding, if instead of that The Argument with life, idea that something's not right, something's wrong. And this is a wonderful invitation to question, because the moment the idea comes that, yeah, but you don't understand, but this is real, this is really, this is serious. Then the obvious thing comes, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? And then there's nothing wrong, it disappears straight away. So it can be questioned. It can also be questioned. There are many, many ways in which the distraction can be questioned and recognised.
One of the ways that Bob advocates is look for the subject. What is it so important about it? Usually it is that, oh, the me is in danger. There's something bad happening to me, or there is something better that could be happening to me. There is something about me in that story, in that subtle resistance. So with that me, of course, there is an invitation to see what is it? What is the me? Who is that that doesn't want what is and is looking for something else? Who is that that doesn't really feel that this moment as it is, is the God's will, pure perfection?
So that's one way. What's wrong with right now is one way. And you see it is nothing because the mind is the only obscuration, is the only veil. Or, well, it is all about me. Okay, where is that me? Who is that me? I personally used to really like Where Is It? because it was more kind of tangible bringing it back to the body. Hi Chris! And body with bodily sensations is what is present. Like the mind is having an existence in time, I Am. This is where the knot is. Can I locate it? If I can, well, I may not locate it precisely, but I can definitely say where it is not.
It is not in my big toe. Okay. So the resistance sits somewhere in the body. And if it's not in my toes, it's not in my fingers, I can buy netty netty, I can find that it sits, let's say, around this size in my solar plexus, it is there. Okay. So now, by even examining and investigating very practically what is or where is that sense of resistance, I'm already out of the conceptualizing of the narrative. Right now, what I'm experiencing is a sensation. It's a present sensation. If I don't label it anything, I'm already out of the narrative with the so-called first generation reality. Reality of the sensory world, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
So the investigation didn't even begin. Where is the I? Who is the I? I am already out of conceptualizing the I So now there is an awareness of a contraction there is awareness of a shallow breathing there is awareness of perhaps shoulders being crawled down And because the attention is so busy with embodiment of all those sensations, there is no story going on of who I am, what I am. I can't process the fact that I'm some sort of a person in some country with some relationships or some problems because the computer doesn't, it has limited capacity. So now the attention is with the sensation, not with the story.
There are so many ways of investigating, to come back to that primordial silence, to just drop out from that entanglement with the mind, with the storyteller in the head. Even having open childlike curiosity about that story, but disassociated curiosity, because if I'm buying into a story, it will just regurgitate it. If the story will be, ah, you know, this happened to me. If I could see the story as this happened to the body, not to the me. The operation happened to the body or the worry happened to the body, not to me. And now I can see the story as something that is happening to that mechanism, body-mind mechanism.
Who says this is I? Thought. But without the thought, objectively, whatever is happening, the body is interacting with the environment. There's no I in it. This way, again, I'm with the first generation reality, even though there may be a narration going on that, oh, this happened, oh, I had a fall, or I lost my wallet, this happened. But this is not I that had a fall, this was the body. This is not I that lost the wallet, this is the body-mind. So now it is much less personal. And then next thing I can see, oh there is a strong resistance to it in the body.
Not I, I don't have any resistance, there is a resistance in the body. But I am the witnessing consciousness in which the body happens, whatever happens to the body and the response of the body. They all happen in the witnessing consciousness that I am. So in this way, life is just a series of incredibly creative and amazing events that are being witnessed in consciousness. There is still further to go. At this level, there is already no suffering. Life is juicy, life is pleasant, life is exciting, life is entertaining, because every moment is different, every moment is fresh and new. And there is a lot of happening in seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
And even if the story happened and I can see the story as happening in the body and not to me, life is already good. But that still doesn't bring the silence forth. The suffering is gone. I'm still kind of, I'm the life itself engaging with whatever's happening. There is still an invitation to look a little bit deeper and see how the whole dream originates, how it comes into existence, the bodies, the thoughts, the feelings, the responses, the beliefs, how it all... Looking from that pure silence and resting us that pure silence or that pure space, the insight comes how that sound, any sound, sound of the bird or sound of my own voice, comes out of that silence and disappears back into it.
Silence suddenly becomes primordial, primary and prioritized. Now whatever the appearance, however beautiful sunset, however magnificent roses, however loving partners, children, relationships, there is still something that is much dearer. And that's not an it, because that's really the essence of who you are. There is this source of silence or source of the whole manifestation which expresses as the multitude of form. But even stepping back to the sensory life in which Julia was defining it as mindfulness, when you are seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, it's not exactly it, but it's close enough. Just being out of the mind, dividing the attention into the sensory world, just the way that most of the animals are attentive to what's happening presently, because seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is present reality, is happening presently.
Only thinking is always advocating what is not. Thinking is about something that was or something that will be or some bigger picture contextualizing whatever is happening to make it to something that is not happening presently. So even living in that sensory world, that mindful engaged with the here and now in the space and timeless now is already free from suffering. And living like this it also is inevitable that the moments show up where you can look through the veil of the whole dream and seeing through that veil whether the body is later on engaged in working making money or supporting others or doing whatever it needs to do Knowing, certainty of the origin of everything is in your heart and it's never forgotten.
It's always there. It's not being thought about. It's not that I'm constantly thinking I am that. There's no thinking necessary at all. The knowing is totally beyond the thinking. It's really not even knowing I am that. It's just the obviousness of I am. I Am doesn't need anything behind it. It doesn't need I Am, what, this, that or the other. That is as good word as ever to be a pointer. That we can call it God, pure perfection, absolute, totality, whatever it is or nothingness. It's a pointer. But what's wrong with... maybe it is not wrong, maybe it is actually, it depends what resonates. I Am is kind of pointing out back to the...
well, it's not a within really, but to the source, to something that is as close as it could possibly be experienced, something closer than the skin. So I am, this is the source. And then comes that, and that represents something else or nothing or everything. So it kind of collapses the singularity with the 10,000 things. But really it is about very basic and very obvious assurance of that existence being prioritized or being the only important miraculous incredible gift in life. Everything else is of secondary importance. Everything else is just what comes and goes, what shows up and disappears. What importance does the body have? It only lives few decades and it goes away.
What importance does the relationship or money or even health or the immortality dream, whether I will be able to play in that movie or write that book, who cares? Those are relatively important. Those are the way it expresses the expression. But the primordial and its importance is a stupid word because importance implies seriousness. There is no seriousness. There is completely no colouring. I am not saying that it is serious or it's not serious, it's valid or it's not valid. Even the word important, it's important or it's unimportant, even that is wrong. No word can actually really describe it appropriately. And at the same time, it is nothing more, nothing closer, nothing more intimate, nothing more miraculous, nothing more delightful than coming back home to that essence where nothing is wrong, where nothing needs fixing, where I am not deficient, incomplete, poor little me Who needs to work on yourself and fix yourself and heal yourself and find yourself or define yourself.
Coming back home from that turmoil of the craziness of mind which constantly conceptualizes the fiction. One of the fiction is that I am a person, I am my costume, I am my dress or my jumper, the skin and the bones, which is constantly changing, just like I'm changing my clothes. That's the same way the cells in the body are constantly changing. The hair are changing, everything's changing. This is a costume, it's not who I am. And at the same time, on the ultimate level, if I'm everything, the costume is not excluded either. But I'm not just it. I'm something that uses it. And this is again the dualistic analogy that there is a me, life essence, and there is a dead body, the matter.
The body is not two. Life and the body are not two, they are one. The dead body, the meat body is also made of life. Life itself shapes, patterns and forms itself a body. If we want to have the story of origin or story of time, we will say that life grew itself the body from the cells and the food and the air and the prana and all of it, the whole universe, conditioning, parents, grandparents, teaching, school, all of it, that life is growing it constantly. Or we can say life is dreaming itself a vehicle. Just the same way we go to sleep at night and the body is lying flat on bed and the eyes are closed.
And in the dreams we can see the consciousness is dreaming itself
The body that has the eyes open and it can see. In the same way, we can perceive that dream and that body as something that that awareness or that source or that essence is dreaming itself. Because without that body, it can't experience the reality the way the body can. The body has like the computer, it has the little camera, two cameras, It has the microphones, the speakers, it has all of that that allows it to construct the world and experience this world with all the colours and shapes and forms and patterns and tastes and flavours and sounds and all of it.
This is the bio-computer which the essence dreams for itself. So now the infinite field of possibilities, the infinite potentiality is translated to the particular experience, which is constantly changing and is so intense and is so juicy and is so inclusive. Because every moment the experience is so complete. If we sit in the head and we completely overlook the juiciness of the experience, we may say, ah, there's nothing going on, it's not what I want, it's not this, I'm bored, this is sick, this is no good. And that is, of course, that's depression. If we really bring the attention to the juiciness of the experience, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, every moment is so intense and is so miraculous, is so incredible.
There is never nothing going on. There's so much going on. And that's the way it expresses and experiences itself. Because, yeah, why do we even say why and because? That's another spiritual entertainment, answering questions, why and saying because. And yeah, well, why not? We may love the stories as much as we love the sunsets and rain and sun and clouds and flowers. I do like the question, why would the life essence incarnate into a body? It doesn't incarnate, it's a dream, it's dreaming itself a body. Why? Why? Well, first and the best answer is why not? And that answers that question. Why not? Because it can.
Why is the bird singing or flying? Why not? Why is the painter painting? Why not? It can, so it does. So why is that infinite life or love experiencing itself and expressing itself as body which is experiencing fear and pain? And the answer is why not? It can, so it does. The beauty of experiencing life in its all-juiciness, in its all-duality, really unfolds when we stop identifying as the costume, as the vehicle. Because then, even bitter experiences have their own sweetness. Even sadness has its own heart-opening beauty. So this is the freedom comes when we don't resist anything that comes. When we are not in conflict with anything that comes.
There comes a broken leg, it hurts. Or there comes a situation where my wife left me with the whatever. I had a friend whose wife left him with the skiing instructor. His ego got crushed apart from the fact that the relationship which was never good would be a reason to celebrate that was gone. But the story always says something else. So opposing, resisting what's happening, what is life providing, being unhappy about being unhappy, being in conflict, That is the source of suffering. Like seeing the life and understanding its nature and understanding the necessity for all the seasons to come and go, for all the days and nights to follow, for all the pains and pleasures to succeed one after another.
Knowing that innately that this is not about you, it is not happening to you, it's not that God hates you and why would he do it to me, there is no me. It is just what plays out and without the darkness of the night you wouldn't know the brightness of the day. It is necessary. It has to all be there. As much as the discomfort of the body, or sickness of the body, or pain of the body is not really a reason to denial and celebration, it is something to be endured by the body. It does not have to be endured by the mind. The mind can still be clear like a surface of the lake and reflect everything without adding suffering without adding judgment story resistance So when unpleasant or uncomfortable things happen you know you live long enough you know they not going to last And if the mind is telling you a story that yes, but it's going to get worse, you know to laugh because it may or it may not.
And rambling about it is not going to change it. It's like this magical thinking little children have. And I remember having a discussion with a friend who is an adult and who is quite a wonderful, well-understanding, beautiful person who could actually spot it in herself as an adult. The same magical thinking that I'm inherently sinful and if I don't punish myself, God will do it. So I will punish myself, I will get this beating on my back, I will hurt myself to spare God from a trouble. And then maybe he will spare me as well, maybe he will find mercy. But she was so conscious about that pattern, she says, look, I can see it, I see it how it plays out, I see it how it's happening.
So what do I do about it? Well, keep seeing it. Keep seeing it without any judgement. Keep being amazed at that pattern. Because it is a habit, it is something that has been learned, has been conditioned. We all have been conditioned to be shy and to be humble. All of them. Look, you know, parents were telling us, oh, you know, you are a child, you don't know shit. When you grow up, you will know a little bit better, but I'll be always right. And there's always someone who knows better. And then we become adults and we get the same bug. Now we get the bug of one or the other philosophy, one or the other religion, or one or the other political view.
And we become the same idiots like they were. We think we know something now and we are slaves to the belief. And that suffering, instead of having that mind clear, completely clear, reflecting everything as it comes and goes, we give seriousness and validity to a story and now we fall victim to the story. Whether it is a story of God punishing me if I don't punish myself or it is a story of government I don't punish myself or whatever the story is. It's still the story. And life moment to moment is unfolding straight in front of your eyes and it's yummy, it's beautiful. Now we can hear someone say, yes, but you know, the political situation or the war or the disease, you know, I've been struggling with cancer for last 10 years.
This was dreadful. I want to die. Really? Really? Every day from when you wake up to the evening when you go to sleep, you are obsessed with one story of a cancer or a government or COVID or whatever it is? No. There's a lot more going on in life. There is a body experiencing sensations, the nose experiencing fragrances, the eyes experiencing beauty. And they are thoughts in the mind and they all can be witnessed. They are all incredible miracles to be lived through and enjoyed. If you are detached, if you don't take yourself too seriously to be a person responsible for controlling the thinking and seeing, that illusion is a straight quickest way to the nightmare.
Because then I imagine that, oh, okay, I will change my thinking. Instead of negative thinking, I will do the positive thinking. And I will have only positive thoughts, maybe for a day to start with. And by the end of the day, hey, there's no you to control the thinking. Habits can be created, but you are not in charge of creating those habits. They just happen. And of course, the mind training is totally possible, but you are not in charge of doing it. This is life. Life inspiring you to watch the thinking, life inspiring you to write maybe a gratitude note every day. It is life.
Give credit to life and you will be free from that delusion of being a doer who is in charge. Because that very delusion will most obviously make you believe that everything that goes wrong is your fault, because you are inherently wrong, sinful and defective and unworthy. What a crazy idea! If you are the Absolute, if you are that, that life essence which expresses and creates the whole universe, it vibrates into the stars and the galaxies, it vibrates into the most beautiful poetry and the most sophisticated patterns in plants or flowers, And it vibrates into the most amazing organs in the body and the most colorful belief systems and the most vulnerable feelings in the heart.
What's imperfect about any of it? What's imperfect about being you? If you see it as an expression of that life of that essence who told you that this is ugly when you have the sexual fantasy Or who told you that it is ugly because you are 5 kilos heavier than the actress on the front page of the magazine Who told you so? And is that really a reliable story to subscribe to? If you look with clear eyes and clear mind and you don't see miracle, just look again. You didn't make yourself. The life that has created that art, that incredible masterpiece that you are, it is a masterpiece.
The body-mind organism which can not only process information coming through all the holes, the holes here, the holes here, the holes here, here, everywhere, It's just exchanging through those, their pores in the skin and they are, you know, it's a magnificent instrument. But also having that saccade, having the capacity to create multiverses on top of that sensory universe. We have the universe that is coming from seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. That's the reality of the now, of the present moment, the time-space, but now, just now. And on top of that, this computer has a capacity to overlay and create multiverses of the imagined time, of the imagined interpretation.
I can say today, oh, I'm living in a country of freedom where everyone is equal, and the next on the same breath or a different mood, I can say, I am living in a country of dictatorship. Or on the same one, I am living in a country of desert. And this is the same story, overlying the basic. This is not such thing as country in nature. It's only a thought, it's only a concept. But I can create a story that will tell the story about the country of abused Aborigines, or country of heroes coming from convicts and building up civilization of the highest life standard.
All countries of whatever, they are all stories, but this computer has the capacity to create and narrate those multiverses on top of the basic time-space reality of this moment, where I'm sensing the world and making sense of sensing, because there's not a homogeneous blob. I can see the window, I know it's window. I can see the computer, it is a computer. It is the information, the light going through the eyes, reflected on the retina, converted to the electrical impulses and converted to the tangible information about the world. How amazing is that? And then there may be a compulsive thinking there as well. There may be a compulsion about whatever, something nasty.
Maybe I have some fetish or some porn addiction or gambling addiction or something that is really disturbing going on in that whole machinery. And we say, oh, this is a broken machinery. This is defect. We have to medicate that defect. Yes, from certain perspective, from comparison to other machineries. Yes, that machinery might not be singing as well, or they may be not looking as smart, or maybe not thinking that fast. But why compare? Every canvas, every creation of that Absolute is unique and perfect. And again, there's nothing wrong if there is a trauma to go and see how life is finding I am the ways and moving you where you get to be, to heal, to medicate that trauma.
It can take you to the therapy or psychedelics or whatever it is. Just give credit where the credit is due and see the dance unfolding and be free in that. That's what's shown up, the therapy. Oh, that's what's shown up. Ah, but what should I do about it? What do you mean? Who is there to do anything about it? See again, what is the body going to do? That is the life in which you are witnessing consciousness, you are the silence, you are the space. And in that conscious space, in that alive beingness, You can see how life unfolds, how body responds, how body comes up with insights, with questions, how body is interacting.
And with all curiosity, you are witnessing a miracle because you don't know. You don't know your next thought. You don't know your next response. We think every day is the same, it's all boring, Monday to Friday, going to work 9 to 5, it's all the same food, the same menu. That's a story. Not one thing is ever the same. The probability of having two snowflakes being the same is so infinitely low that it's impractical to think that they can even ever be the same. No moment, no meal, no day is ever the same. There is no room for Boredom, there is no room for anything else but the amazement in that incredible miracle of existence, in that incredible dream.
Oh yeah, but I have reoccurring dreams. Are they really the same? They're not. But even looking and analysing and comparing is already a story it already too much this is already added into that pure plain lightness of existence delightfulness Would anyone like to say something or jump in and just discuss Maybe you had some sort of an insight or experience or something even very practical, like what's really helpful, I heard sometimes people sharing in the meetings where you come with a real life example. Like I remember Cliff saying once that he was making a scrambled eggs and one of the eggs was rotten, another one fell on the floor and then he hit himself on the edge of the chair.
His shirt got dirty and he said, shit, I'm having a horrible day. And he caught it. And he realized, oh my gosh, three things happened. Yeah, the scrambled eggs, the hitting myself and the dirt on the shirt and the end of story jumping straight away. The assumption, horrible day. The day wasn't horrible. He's been swimming in the morning. Oh, it was fantastic. And then he found, you know, the sun was shining and then he got a couple of nice conch rolls and then a lot of good things happened. That assumption, that story, that's what often happens in the reality when you watch your mind and when you listen to the narrative and when you hear it, you see the habitual assumptions coming moment to moment, the judgments moment to moment.
And this is something so refreshing to actually see your own habit patterns without judging them. Because I had this really funny conversation with my mom on a video call yesterday. Sharing with her, she was crying and laughing at the same time because it was sad and funny. When I was telling her that, you know, sometimes I kind of hear myself saying I'm a little bit introverted and I'm a little bit shy. I never like the big crowds of people. So I hear saying myself or sharing that I really love nature. Oh my God, I really love the animals. I love the flowers. I love the sky.
I don't like people that much. And I tell her, look, this commentary goes in my head with the sound of your voice. And she was laughing and crying because she actually, I'll just mute the phone. Sorry. People texting. Yes, so she recognized that, yes, this was one of that, one of the frequencies that I was exposed to a lot and my siblings as well. And when I'm looking into that, the habit goes in on the autopilot, the commentary goes on. Oh, would you like to go on the on the rally protest on the city? I said, no, I don't like crowds. I don't like people that much.
And I hear it again. Oh, that's the same thing coming up. I don't like people. But who in particular don't I like? I don't know. Yeah, I love them and I like them. And oh, no, I don't know. Yeah, it's just a story. It's just a thought. It's completely unconscious, mechanical. It plays out just the same way. The breathing happens automatically. A lot of these habit patterns are automatic. Our whole way of interpreting the reality It's mostly happening on the autopilot. Nothing needs to be done about it. It doesn't have to be fixed. It doesn't have to be changed. Well, if there is particularly disturbing or painful pattern, you may find yourself attracted to one or the other way of rewiring it.
I am not saying that you should be doing it. But again, that's life doing it. Really, ultimately what needs to happen is the conscious recognition with sense of curious amazement rather than resistance and judgment. Like that girlfriend of mine who was talking about punishing herself to spare God from extra job to punish her because she deserves it. She could see that happening and she couldn't stop it. I say, but can you actually see it with the like, wow, how incredible, how amazing. She says, well, you know, I kind of still have a strong preference to actually not have that pattern. Oh, that's great. That's another good thing to know.
There is an amazing pattern that at some point in life, and it's about an age of seven, I think, when children fall for that magical thinking. That, okay, if I will pray at night, then tomorrow I won't be called to answer at school. And the child is praying and he's not called to answer at school and it works. Oh my God, I'm in charge. God is doing what I want God to do. Okay. And the magical thinking goes on. Quite often people never really grow out of it. A lot of people subconsciously on one level or another says, okay, if I get ready for the worst case scenario that it won't happen, or if I punish myself that God will spare me, that's also a magical thinking.
But if anything bad happens to the child and that part of the brain doesn't develop, doesn't mature, that's what happens. But it is something that is utterly fascinating. You see it and wow, I didn't do it, I'm not guilty of it. This is how the whole world,
This is how my family, my school, my society formed that body. This is how that body developed. This is how it survived. At some point, it might have served it. So now the pattern of reacting like this and the pattern of not wanting it on top of it. Can you at least see that other pattern of preferring not to have this reaction?
Can you at least see this one? Wow! That's amazing! Oh, there is a reaction. Oh, and there is not wanting a reaction. Amazing! Can you see how in that whole way of looking there is no need for any entity whatsoever? There is no me in it. There is the conscious awareness of noticing in that witnessing consciousness, noticing the pattern and the resistance to the pattern and the commentary over the pattern. And there is no me in whatsoever. There is totally no need in explaining the way the body-mind functions. There is no need for constructing any sense of separate self that is doing the pattern. This is me doing the pattern.
Oh, am I doing it? Okay, so can I stop it? No. Why not? Because I'm not doing it. It's an autopilot. I have resistance or I'm, let's say, I have the habit pattern like the traumatized dog to bark every time somebody step on my tail. The pattern of bursting with anger, just like the dog. I have the pattern, traumatized, step on the table. That's it. The pattern, mechanical, autopilot. Can I stop it? No, I didn't start it. I can't stop any of those behaviors because I haven't started them. What started them? Trace back any of the patterns, any of them, You will see how the whole universe interacted, how the whole universe collaborated, how interdependent this pattern is with everything else that happened in your life.
You wouldn't have that behavior if you were born in a different country, with the different parents, if you were in a different food or different supplements, if you had different experiences, different friends, different school teachers. You would have different accidents and different vacations. All of it would create completely different personality. So how is that your problem? How is that your fault? How is that your personality? How is that any need anywhere to construct the self that owns it and is responsible for it? And this is not to say that it doesn't have the validity in the society, of course. Of course, knowing the truth doesn't prevent the whole law legal system from creating that brilliant way of dealing with the outcasts.
You know, like if there is a danger, if someone is dangerous, be it a rat or being a pedophile, to isolate it. Whether you say the rat is responsible or the pedophile is responsible or is guilty or is not guilty, what doesn't matter? The rat is as innocent as ever, but if it gets to your home, you want it out. Or the ant. As innocent as ever. But you're gonna get rid of it. That's the way of it. So, seeing the world and seeing the behaviours and seeing the pattern in a way in which you see that constructing a me is completely redundant, is completely unnecessary, is completely clouding, there is no space for it.
How freeing is that? You go about your day and you see that the body got irritable. Oh, interesting, got to go to irritable. But that's not me, I'm not. I'm always at peace. I'm always behind the body being irritated or angry or tired. I'm always that peaceful witnessing silent space. How else would I see the irritability of the body if this was me? I wouldn't know I'm irritable if I was the irritability. No way. I am the peaceful stillness, silent source in which the pattern appeared. So why would I be upset about that pattern? I'm the space allowing everything to appear. I am okay with everything.
But the upset came up on top of it. Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Now there is irritability and the upset of irritability. Wow, two things dancing. Fantastic. Let them dance. And now maybe snapping up at something or someone. Oh, incredible. And all of that is just a miracle of the unfolding moment to moment. There's no me in it. But then, oh, look, there is a sense of guilt because someone got hurt. How beautiful! Oh my gosh, wonderful! Would you like to be a psychopath and never experience those feelings? Why? It's fantastic to have all the gamma of those feelings. The guilt, the sadness, all of it, they're absolutely magnificent.
If you don't have judgment, if you don't have the idea that there is something wrong with feeling what is being felt, And it is not only about the reality, but also about the reality itself. And it is not only about the reality of reinterpreting the reality to the much more truer and it is not only truer for the nondual thinking it is truer for medicine Like nobody has ever found an entity in the brain or in the body. There isn't anyone there. Also for the science, like what they say today when most of our choices and decisions are actually partially, if not completely overlooked and manipulated by the algorithms of Google and Facebook and all the medias that are prompting advertisers, swaying you one way or another.
I'm not sure if you're an anti-vaxxer, but you wouldn't if you didn't get that information from somewhere, from the internet. You basically got swayed, you got hijacked by the virus of the mind, by thought, one or the other. It is not your idea, it is just some massive movement of energy selling you the image of the world to which you subscribe. I am seeing it in this way. You can be free from it. You can understand every point of view and every perspective. You might even have some sort of a preference to one to another. You might prefer Allah to Jehovah or whatever it is.
But you are free. You understand them for what they are. You know that this is a thought. This is a philosophy. This is not the reality because the reality is non-conceptual. The reality is the silence, the stillness. The reality is beyond the dream. And again, there is a dream in the here now of the sensory processes. And where is in the here now the dictatorship, democracy, the Bucks, the anti-gay, where is it? Is it happening? Do you see an injection or a politician? No. In the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling? No, it doesn't exist. It only exists when you conceive of it in the mind and it becomes real when you believe it.
And recognizing that very habit of investing attention in the philosophy. Let's say I'm taking a philosophy, Christmas is coming, that Santa Claus is real. It really flies in the sky on the rainers and it's going through the funnel and bringing the gifts. It's a real guy, he's a saint. Now all of the attention goes into it. And brainwashing, brainwashing, brainwashing to the point when I believe it's real. There is a really huge community of people believing the earth is flat or believing in one thing or another, doesn't mind Jehovah Allah, whatever it is, make it a santa. Now I believe it is real, now it is my experience, it is my life, it is my reality.
But it can be questioned, it can very easily be questioned. So the freedom is to recognize the thoughts for what they are and see how even the belief habitually floods the idea. Because let's say for me, maybe for me actually not really, but for some people that friend of mine who was doing a favor to God by punishing herself so God doesn't have to do the job, she was Jewish. The Jewish, so she was naturally attracted to the Jewish religion and all the Jewish sets of laws. So that sort of a setup, the body-mind setup was naturally resonating with that music, with that melody that was her thing.
So this particular body-mind may be naturally swayed towards something else, the rebellion or whatever it is. But it is again, it can be witnessed in the consciousness, even that how the natural preference comes for food or music or the philosophy. And it is neither mine nor me. It is just happening with absence of any persona or any entity inside facilitating it or controlling it. How freeing is that to actually see that whatever the body does is not me doing. I'm the silence in which the body does it. I think I've been talking for an hour. I think maybe it's time for you to really help me out a little bit and direct it one way or another.
How did you hear it? Was it very confusing or was it resonating in particular or in general? Because I don't really know just yet which way it is going to express. Like Bob has this beautiful, beautiful, amazing spiel in which every aspect is touched upon. In 40 years I may have two. Go on George. So I'm an old Zen guy. I've been studying this stuff for quite a long time. And absolutely Kat, absolutely one of the best presentations I've ever seen. Wonderful. Oh my god That is unexpected Thank you Yeah so can you just jump in and tell me which way do we look now from here Because otherwise I don know what I going to say but either repeat some points or maybe I just I don't know, it just would be nice if someone gave me a direction.
I think it's fantastic. I think it's really fantastic. I totally understand. The thing is, what's in the world at the moment, you're talking about, in psychology, we have lots of offshoots and other offshoots, another field of training, Another psychology is they treat something as a person, which in sin is spirituality. There's no one there. So it's like. The world is bringing it to. Let this kind of illusion. It tells you there is an individual, this assumed entity, when you say there's only a habitual patterns and likes and dislikes of a person. Mm hmm. But yeah, the way he explains, fantastic. I love it. Yeah, it's very clear.
It's hard because we get caught so much into our own, you know, I was born in a small village. Things that's been spoken to you every day and then the whole village will talk to you every day and day and it becomes a belief and suddenly one day it becomes the truth. And then you don't know unless you investigate. I think it's the same thing as the I think that in the countries, we have this Australia, we have Germans, we have the Indians. We're trying to defend each one of us. We have our own armaments, their own armaments. But it's only a concept, you know, it's like a container or something, empty container.
Yeah, and, but the truth is, there's only one humanity, I guess. It's hard to see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Yes, we were so conditioned to interpret the reality in the category of the relationship, my relationship to my nation, my relationship to my gender, my relationship to my people, my story, my belief, my concepts. It has never been questioned. The I is the religion and the poor me. And as you say, yes, then you go and you try to fix that poor me. Or you try to embellish on... Assuming that I am deficient, of course, it comes in the package with sense of incompleteness and sense of lack of self-confidence.
And then something has to be done about it. Then the whole therapy and psychology comes about to make... I wish I remember the quote directly. I think it was one of the pioneers, either Freud or Jung, that said that the whole therapy is designed to convert unbearable human suffering into the normal mundane unhappiness, everyday unhappiness. Is it really the aim of psychology? Unbearable suffering to mundane unhappiness, just daily dissatisfaction with life, with myself, with my relationships. That's the human condition. I am deficient, I'm not good enough, I have to fix myself. That was Freud, normal human misery, you know, that's the best we can hope for.
Normal human misery, thank you, yes, that yes, that's all we can hope for. That's it, yes. I think you also said that we, each one of us, is of immense age. We are not really young, we are old. Because what we are now basically is just a pattern. For example, I was born a Catholic. They're just being brainwashed to give it to you by parents. You know, you grow up like that. Start this five thousand years being, you know, it's been there for long. And then it's stuck to you. They said like, we are of immense age. We are old. We're never new. So... Yeah, we're timeless.
Like, I mean, there is this, um, they are, you know, obviously there is this, the way you explained, there is a machine that somehow most of us are not aware of. And this machine runs like 24 hours a day. Like somehow for people, somehow, I don't know, maybe it's like a torture too, because it's running all the time. Like I have insomnia. It's running all the time. Yeah But I guess yeah I guess the way how you just said oh fine it been so many I'm so sorry, that's a very uncomfortable pattern. It's a very unpleasant pattern, yeah. Like chronic pain, oh my gosh, they really, they're a big challenge.
I guess, you know, even fibromyalgia, things like chronic fatigue and stuff like this. It's not impossible to still appreciate the miracle of life because this is the body that has insomnia, it's the body that has the chronic fatigue. The silence, the stillness that is witnessing and looking through this body is always pure and perfect. But still, if you have broken car and believe me, for last couple of months I was witnessing my dearest love of my life I am a woman who has been living my life walking with extreme pain. Now he is in a hospital and he is getting it fixed. Loving to be is not as easy and obvious when you experience that sort of a condition or when you see your loved one in that sort of a condition, which is the same or worse.
It's still not impossible and in the given situation the best thing that can ever happen is to reduce the suffering over the suffering. Reduce the unhappiness because of the unhappiness or the sleeplessness because of insomnia. The resistance or conflict with what is because that multiplies the suffering. Because if there is a chronic fatigue and I hate the chronic fatigue and I hate my hating the chronic fatigue and I'm suffering because of hating by hating by chronic fatigue on top of suffering of the chronic fatigue, that's a lot of suffering. While one level of suffering is enough to bear and of course if it is unbearable, the life will find a way to pull the plug too and nothing wrong with that as well.
But yes, the questioning is the way out because we all innately know it. The way if there is, and I see there was a couple of people who dropped off, but everybody else is staying. So there is something in you, something there deep down in the heart that knows that yes, it really is that simple. It really is that straightforward. It really is about just recognizing that I am neither of the stories that I'm telling myself in the head. It really is that simple. There is no separate self. There is just that infinite amount of dancing patterns playing out together and creating that incredible symphony of experiencing moment to moment on so many levels.
There is no me doing it, there is no me having it, there is no me controlling it. There is just what's happening. And if I relax from that role, assume role of being a doer of it, then I will stop experiencing the sense of failure that I didn't do it. If I'm not the doer, I've never done anything wrong ever in my life. I'm completely utterly innocent moment to moment. I am not a person who is not aware of the existence of the Self. I am not a person who is not aware of the existence of the Self. I am the silence in that silence.
I am beyond the narrative, Yakin. In that silence, I am witnessing the narrative. Yeah, but last 15 minutes I didn't witness, I forgot to witness, I should have witnessed, I should have done better than that. There is no one doing the witnessing. There is no me watching the mind. There is no me doing the witnessing. So I can't fail at that. There is no failure there. There is a moment of spontaneous recognition. And there is moments of spontaneous recognition. What happened between the moments is gone, is dead. Nothing happened between the moments. Don't even go back and analyze. Right now there is, wow, how amazing.
Look at this, all these patterns going on, playing out, showing up, going, coming, disappearing. Nobody does it. Wow. And then the next time it may happen, maybe next day. So what? Yeah, I was unconscious. No, you weren't. There is no you to be unconscious. This is just life playing out. And in that simplicity, where is... and as I say, I was doing it to myself for a long time, just multiplying suffering, being a spiritual seeker, and self-harming, having spiritual ambition. I will meditate twice a day. I will be vigilant. I will catch myself. I will be aware of every passing thought. And of course, that's impossible.
Show me the animal that is aware of every
And why would I even bother dividing myself into something that is responsible for some action of watching or not watching? Recognition is spontaneous. When you know the truth, when you know that this is really about relaxing, in that relaxation you are back in that silence. In that relaxation, whatever comes into the picture, into that conscious awareness, is coming to pass. Nothing needs to be done about it. The recognition is spontaneous. Investigation is spontaneous. You may find yourself tuning in and hearing a set of reminders. And on that wavelength, you go out of the mind spontaneously without doing it, trying it.
Or you may find yourself just being or engaging, whatever, engaging in narrative or not. It's nothing wrong. Whatever's happening is nothing wrong. What would the silence say? What would the stillness have to say? Nothing. It would be quiet about it. What judgement is who you truly are having about the world and the politics and the Covid and stuff? None whatsoever. Heart doesn't have any language. It is totally allowing, it is totally open, totally free. And allowing everything to show up as it is, come to pass. If anything, it blows it a kiss, even if that's irritability or anger or whatever it is. If anything, wow, that's it.
But really, it doesn't have anything to say. If there is commentary going on or there is a judgment over what's happening, that's just another pattern. Anything that is tangible, conceivable, perceivable, experienceable is a pattern, is a passing phenomenon. There's nothing real in that. And it's not you. Oh, I have to find the me. Well, good luck with that. But it feels like there is something contracted. Yeah, there's something contracted. There's a sensation. Yeah, but that I had this idea that I was my vulnerability, I was my emotionality, I was my sensitivity, that was me. It felt like it was always there, you know, I was always afraid of rejection.
I was always worried about rejection, judgement, and that vulnerability of being hurt. That was, I felt it was me. But that's not there all the time. Silence is not vulnerable at all. The stillness is not afraid of any rejection. It can't be rejected. The pattern of vulnerability was coming and going. And I didn't exhibit that pattern when I was between the trees and not people, or between the cats and not people. That pattern was completely floating through the consciousness. How could I ever think it was me? But I did for whatever many years. So before that, a lot of people would label me as something else.
I would believe probably before I even heard that possibility that perhaps there isn't a separate self. I believed I was the body. That was me. And everything that was happening to the body was happening to me. Laughable impossibility. What part of the body? The body is constantly changing. And when the body is asleep, I lose touch with it. I completely, I don't have it. In the experience, the body disappears. Even right now, I don't have any face. It doesn't, I don't have it. It's not there. It's not being experienced. I can conceive of it. I can imagine it and I can believe it's real, that it will be real.
But in direct experience it is not, it's totally not. I walk around and I don't have any face, I don't have any body, it's just the space, I'm not even walking. It's just that I'm the stillness and through me the things are moving. When the body is moving from the kitchen to the living room, I'm the stillness. But the kitchen and the living room is moving through me. That's the experience. But I'm not thinking about it. I'm not translating it to myself. This is not that, oh, do you really experience the world like this all the time? I don't have any concepts about it. Neither that I'm moving through space or the space is moving through me.
None of it. That is completely quiet. It's none of conceptualizing going on. It's nothing abnormal, totally normal, ordinary awareness like cat and dog and tree. And there is no idea that anything should be different That the freedom There is no idea that I something or that I right or wrong or that I need something that I need to fix something or learn something or gain something or become someone or find something in future There is totally no future That amazing Leaving with absolutely zero future. There is no moment apart from this one. And it doesn't mean that the planning won't happen. I may need to go shopping and bring the grocery for a week.
Still having absolutely no thought that future has any validity or any reality. It doesn't. It's not experienced. You can't experience future. You can't have direct experience of future. You can only imagine it. And in a conventional world, imagining future, like I was driving today, Bob got transferred. I put it on the Facebook website, but for those who didn't hear me saying, he got transferred from the hospital to the rehab, which is much closer to home. I still can't see him, but they allow me graciously to deliver him a new bag full of clean underwear and some book and computer and stuff like this. Of course, driving my bike, I had some sort of the idea where am I going?
There was a space beyond this room and there was a time beyond the moment when I start. But that all happens without any concepts. Now it's all just plain functioning. Just like there is no future for the cat. It goes to sleep, it wakes up, that's always now, always now. Cat, can I interrupt? Please. Oh, thank you. That was wonderful by the way, really good to hear everything. I just wanted to ask, when I hear you saying okay so I couldn't see Bob, like for me I know a story comes up about that, like I'm not happy about it. I want to be able to see my husband, what right have they got to stop me from seeing him, he's an old man, he needs looking after, how do I know he's being looked after?
Does that happen for you at all or does it just come up and you kind of let it go? Thank you. It doesn't come up when I'm by myself, but let's say when the neighbour pops in and she says, oh, did you manage to get to see Bob? Then straight away in a conventional language with my dear neighbour, who I really love, I hear myself saying, no, the damn bastards will let all the cleaners come. I had to ask for help. I asked her to come because Julia pointed it out. All the cooking crew will come. We'll let everyone come but I can't come. They don't give a shit.
I can see how convenient it is for them to not have all of the people coming asking questions, questioning them and messing up with the medicine. Because what I did last year, I was doing everything for Bob. I was spending all days, I was giving him a shower, making him green smoothies, giving him supplements. The nurses didn't have to really bother with him at all, which I would find convenient, But not every person that is visiting their relatives would do that job. Most of them will just question the nurses, oh, why didn't you do this? Or why did you do it this way? So of course it's convenient for them.
But at the same time, you know, I hear playing out a little bit with that story. I can hear myself, yeah, buggers, bastards, thank God Bob has this understanding, he doesn't really freak out, but I can't imagine other elderly people, they may even die. But inside, I'm laughing, this is just a play, this is just how the body dances. And then we spoke with Julia and then, you know, Julia came and the same sort of a narrative said, and I said, look, I can't really extract from the whole picture the fact that I totally get their point also from the algorithm probability perspective. If the number says that allowing visitors increases the risk of infection by 0.05% and that's just enough for having another person not make it, well, I don't know if that's true or not, but that part of the story is also in the whole picture and it's also not believed.
It's just that when one story comes, like you say, oh, you know, that's just so wrong. Another story comes up straight away and they both equal. I can't subscribe to one or another, but I can find myself by all means engaging in a chatter with the neighbour who doesn't have that understanding and is just compassionately expressing love and care that why this is wrong. And I totally hear her. Yes, you're right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Thank God that's part of the story. Occasionally there are good nurses that will help him to push that button and I can see him. So for first couple of days we spent hours and hours on video calls so I could see him.
Then for next two days they were too busy, they didn't want to push one button to charge his phone or they didn't want to do any office. So we couldn't see each other and on the phone he couldn't hear me. So it wasn't great. We still spent few hours trying and screaming in the phone on both ends. But now he's again, I had the video call with him just before the Zoom. So it is just how it plays out. But absolutely don't, you know, if you find yourself engaging in the chatter on one topic or another, just find it as beautiful and as fascinating as when you find yourself dancing to that music or that music.
But you know the truth. Yeah, that's really cool. I'm definitely not there yet. And I know that a story that a story but I just you know for me that kind of chatter can feel continuous And so it can be really hard to have that presence behind it and you know obviously it gets so bad that then you pull yourself back so I guess it happens naturally anyway, but yeah, sometimes it feels like there's still suffering because the stories are still It's ongoing about how things should be and it's a should story. Yes, it's resistance, I guess. That was good to hear. And that's too...
Look, you are that and it is natural. I mean, gosh, you should not ask Bob what the swear words I put on that damn crew that didn't want to push that button for him a couple of days ago. You know, the most disgusting words I was putting on all that nurses. And screaming and irritable. And I love that. I love that. Because that's again how love shows up. And I wasn't buying to it fully, but still, it's not like... You have dog with the temperament that is barking more, and you have dog that is more placid, and you have cat that is more active. I am a person who is not only a person of the body, but also a person of the mind.
I am a person who is not only a person of the mind, but also a person of the body. Being capable of engaging and hearing the different views and different perspective and really seeing what other people see, really see, you know, even my mom with her reptilians and other stuff like this. And just being curious about that magnificent manifestation, you know, you believe in one thing or another one believes in another thing. They all, the way the Absolute dances itself and expresses itself, they all precious. Every story is, the story is no different to any other way it expresses, whether it is a rose or it is a galaxy or it is a story, it is still the same one life and it is beautiful.
So totally, Bob has totally, for me this young is actually what day is today? Seven. Exactly six years today since I had the breakthrough experience when I realized for certain that there is no separate self and it never reestablish itself. So for Bob it was 45 years. So I'm a pop, but for him is 45 years. And I tell you, I love when he engages with the discussion with the neighbor about the control and about the power and the power struggle and about China and about politics. Absolutely, absolutely. It is a beautiful, beautiful way of still being capable to interact with the fellow human being on the human level, even though you know the truth about it.
And it's not that there is you behind it that remembers that this is bullshit. There's no you. The silence doesn't have anything to say. It just allows it to happen. It's like Bob's having heated discussion with the... We love that neighbor. We have beautiful neighbors. We have few more neighbors and they all, they all great. So, yes, they want to talk about this. We meet them there. And we're not having any idea that they are wrong, they should be saved, or they should be fixed, or they should stop believing in what they're believing. No, there's nothing wrong in any way it expresses. They are perfect.
They are the absolute dancing for itself. We don't have to save them or liberate them. We don't have to prove them wrong. We don't have to tell them that this is just a story. This is not true. No, it is totally okay. Yeah, wonderful. And in the moment, it is. That's how wonderful it is to actually really know Bob a little bit more kind of closely, intimately, to see that part of him, to know that you really are no different. You really are no different. You engage in the story about corruption, he does too. You know right now that this is a story. Yeah, but when you were engaging, you didn't.
Well, because the attention wasn't available. It doesn't matter. There is no you to know or not to know. Right now the recognition is there. At the moment, you know, you just find the body dancing, you find the body eating, you find the body engaging in the story about corruption or whatever the body is engaging, whatever. Doesn't matter. And the hindsight will tell you, yes, but I was in the past, I was unconscious or unaware or I was suffering. Now you are in the story. Back then, that was just the way life dances. Now, instead of actually, oh, that is dead, it's not even here. What's here now is this moment.
Why do I really look and analyze? Why do I want to compare myself? Why do I want to even, you know, like this was how the life does. It really is perfect moment to moment, even if the story takes weeks. That's exactly how the absolute wants to dance this itself. I'm not there yet. That's a pattern. That's a pattern causing suffering. I remember because I had that pattern too. I not there yet I remember even that guru I had in India they used to ask me questions Okay so you have a lot of experience of absolute silence emptiness clarity So is it you Kat having experience of silence Or is it silence having experience of you?
And it was me having experience of silence in my story. But it wasn't true. It is always and ever only silence having experience of person. Always and ever. Go on Ernie, I see you on mute. I'm just saying like, because the remembrance somehow creates this kind of continuity, like, for example, like a husband and wife, like they're fighting that night, and the following day, you know, they go back to the room. Somehow most of the human people like tends to have this remembrance of what they did last. So it's a bit, you can't really see somehow, you can't see the wife in a fresh brand new because the remembrance of it is there.
Yeah, yeah. Same with animals. And yeah, but I understand that although intellectually I understand that we are not this embodied existence because, you know, Ernie was given to me by my parents, the name and, you know, the properties, you know, it's not, I'm not the properties, I'm not the house, but somehow there's still this fear of death, you know what I mean? The identification with the body is so strong. Whereas when we talk about human, we talk about like, that's not, that's who you are. You know, you, you, Maharaj would say like, that's how you know you are that, you know, you are this awareness or things like that.
But it's not conceptual. It's not, I don't, I can't feel it. Maybe when you're in total silence, then you have this, you know, whatever. Is that something you grasp? It is just something you stop doing. Really, landing in that non-conceptual silence is just about stopping to distract yourself from it. Because that silence is always there. And on top of that silence, there comes the idea that, no, but I need to defend myself. I have the fear of dying, but I don't want to be annihilated. All those ideas are what's on top of that silence. So actually it's not about eradicating fear of death, it's not about fixing that self, it's not about disappearing that identification.
Thank you. I think it would be, you know, if you want to show up on Thursday, I could just start from there because you're right, it is a very, very powerful pattern. It is the love for life, which is called fear of death. The love for being, which is called fear of non-being. It is such a wonderful and strong trend in asserting the identity as a person, as a body. It only exists in the mind. Beyond the mind, the existence is. It doesn't have shape, form or pattern, so it doesn't need survival, it can't die. But it is a really, really great thing to look at because when you really see it, then you see the impossibility of dying.
You see how your body is dying moment to moment, thousand deaths, every cell, and there is no problem. No hair on your head has any problem with ending life. No leaves drying and falling off the tree have any problem with that. It's only the thoughts, the mind. But because I'm going to be calling Bob back, I told him that I'll call him after the meeting. He couldn't join Zoom because he just got transferred and the people, there was just no one there who could put the Wi-Fi passwords to his computer or who would click it on his phone. I will be here on Thursday. Maybe we can get Bob by Thursday to be there with us.
He probably just like last time won't be feeling much of talking because he's still on very strong drugs. But maybe he will. I'm happy to look at this because yes, fear of death, oh my gosh, immortality dream. A lot of people get motivated to do anything they want to do in life just because they want to leave something behind, just because they want to be remembered or they want to be significant. They want to be something, they don't want to be nothing. So please remind me because I'm going to forget as soon as we disconnect because the attention will go to Bob. Thank you, Bob.
Please remind me to just focus on that because it's a beautiful thing to look at and it's very, very liberating to see how we conceptualize that idea of being something that is tangible and that can be destroyed. So thank you, thank you very much. Thank you, Kat. Thank you, Kat. Thank you. That was amazing. Well done. Thank you.