Sailor Bob and group. Nothing exists and I am. 14.11.21

Leah, Tony, Simon, Amy, all yours, Trane, Payne, Roxy, Adrian, Chaney, and Bob, all yours. Okay, we've had it through the same old, same old, we always go through it, because that's all there is when you look deeply into it. Can't tell you anything, can't teach you anything. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. Because when it's investigated, you'll see there's no thing other than that which is absolute, or as they call it in Buddhism, the great perfection. What can you add to the absolute? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. Same with the perfection, what can you add to the perfect?

Nothing. Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. So it's all that. The Buddha's given it to you in one sentence. They call it the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Anybody who is unaware right now, in Buddhism they call it Sat-Chit-A-Mana, Nama-Rupa, the five factors, anyone who is not existing right now. Anyone who is not conscious or unaware, or anyone who is not happy to be. So you must realize that. You must realize you're already that. Who is there to seek and what is there to seek? If you're not separate from that, learn words. The words to be real. And that's the cause of the sense of separation and individuality.

When you investigate, you realize what they say, the false cannot stand up to the investigation. Point out, know the truth, and the truth will set you free. What is there to be free from? Nothing but the belief that you're separate. You're an individual. You're a person. Investigate that. As they say, the false cannot stand up to investigation. You'll see through it. It's life itself. And isn't it what Christ told you years ago? When he said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People think he's talking about himself. He's not. He's talking about that sense of presence. The sense of presence.

The sense of presence which he labels I or me is the way, is the life itself. But you're prior to that thought. You're prior to all thoughts. Anyone remember your birth? Well, you can't remember your birth. You didn't know anything about your birth until you were about two, two and a half. When the capacity of reasoning developed. Of course. Take your hands off. That won't make any difference. It does. It makes a difference. Before you learned any words, life was there. So that way, you're prior to the mind. All the thoughts came up which were called mind. Can you show me a thing called mind?

Is there such a thing? You say, my mind. Just as long as you say, my house, my car, my coat. Are you the house? Are you the car? Are you the coat? You know. You're not those things. Maybe you're not the mind either. Do the same with your body. Say, my body. Of any of these things, you were aware of them. But you couldn't, had no labels or concepts to put on them prior to the word. So you are prior to this thing called mind. You're before the mind for the first two years of your life. Before you learned words, you didn't have any words.

But you're living quite well without the mind. Now we're taking on the belief that we are the mind. We are this person. Where does that word person come from? It comes from the Latin persona. The mask. So we've got this mask of concepts. Taking it to be real. And realize that every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been learned. It's been picked up along the way. So, you're prior to this thing called mind. Investigate that and see the word is not the real. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word? Can you drown in the word?

Take the word fire. Can you cook in it? Can you burn yourself with it? Can you heat yourself? So what's this word I or me? We've had the concepts, the ideas. We believe we are this body mind, this persona. A conceptual image. And that's where the set of separation comes upon us. When the parents tell you you're little Johnny or you're little Billy or you're little Jane. And you say I am little Billy. Or I am Jane. And we've taken on those, what we've been told and believe in and take that to be reality. But there's only one reality. And it's no thing. So the great mantra is I am that.

Innately you know that. Because you say that's the chair. That's the carpet. That's the room. That's the house. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything out there in the manifestation is that. What should we put the words on? And the words you put on them are what's been picked up along the way. The language. The last verse in the Henshing Ming points that out. And it says words. Today is beyond language. For there's no yesterday, no tomorrow and no today. Not only those words but any other words. It's all concepts. So we've got this conceptual image that we keep believing in. And that's the cause of all our psychological suffering.

Because only me can be fearful. It's only the me that can be unhappy or sad or jealous or envious. Me is the cause. Of all my psychological suffering. And they are the effects. The fear. The stress. The guilt. The anxiety. The jealousy. The envy. How's that? That loud enough? Better. Much better. One here. Perfect. Well I can't hear it myself. So me is the cause. And the effects are the anger, the jealousy, the envy, the guilt. And isn't that cause and effect? Isn't that what so-called karma is? We believe we've got all this karma and all the rest. Well what would happen if you asked yourself the simple question.

Can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause? Well if the cause is not being related to, there can't be effect if there's nothing to relate to. And that's how this manifestation is appearing. It's appearing to be dualistically. But it's the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. What I call for one of the better terms, I don't use the term God here because it can get you infused with that term. Purely and simply we all come from different traditions. If you have a Hindu, there's a hundred different names or a thousand different names for Vishnu or God. In Buddhism they'll have other different names.

The Hebrew say, here our Israel, the Lord thy God is one God, there's nothing other. The Muslims will say, there is no God but God, Allah is his name. They put all these different labels on this concept or idea of God. And we get lost and confused with the labels. But I use the term intelligence energy. And that's not it either. There's no label that you can actually put on it. But that's a label I use which is not it. And intelligence is knowing. Not the intellect. But the knowing. And the I in general, the knowing, is an activity. Look out there in nature and see how nature is functioning.

Seasons coming and going. Tides coming in and out. Earth rolling around the sun. Tsunamis, satellites, all the rest of it. Galaxies forming. All these patterns, shapes and forms are appearing. Seemingly solid and substantial. These bodies, minds, are pattern, shapes and forms appearing all the time. But it's all empty. Everything is made up of things. The basic screen in which everything appears in is that silence. Or stillness. Or space. Can you postulate or think of anything that could be out of sight of space? And you realise it can't be. Everything you can take must always be in space. What else could it be in it? And the space is empty.

So when the Buddhists call it a cognising emptiness, we think we are cognising that emptiness. But it's not. It is the emptiness itself. It's a fused with that activity of knowing, the intelligence entity, as the capacity of cognising. And he makes the statement then that emptiness is form. Pointing out it is that cognising or vibrating into pattern, shapes and forms is nothing but the emptiness. And he said emptiness is form and the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So it's all this empty form. All made up of things. You mightn't really want to believe it, but you're a thing. I'm a thing. The tree's a thing.

The flower's a thing. The ocean's a thing. The space, everything, as I say, everything are things. Space is no thing. Hasn't got a centre to it. Hasn't got a circumference to it. And can you postulate or think of anything that could be outside? And the other thing is, is all things appearing in that space which is no thing, can some thing come from no thing? It can't. We call it nothing. We get the wrong take on it. As soon as we say nothing, we think it's a vacuum or a void, zero, zilch. But it's no thing. It means that all this vibration, pattern, shapes and forms, as they say, in the scriptures, are no thing.

It's a cognising emptiness. Emptiness is form. And the form can be nothing other than emptiness. So it's vibrating into all these seeming things which are no things. And the Buddhists call that a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's all seemingly so. But there's nothing real about it or separate and apart from it. We've got this conceptual idea or conceptual image that I am this body, I am this mind. And that didn't come about it. About it, our parents taught us words. And we learnt words from our parents. Concepts, ideas or images. And Shakespeare told you that. That or a 500 year ago.

When he says there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes us so. So it's the thinking that's causing all your problems. And the saga that it will tell you the same thing. That nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. No thing, none of these things can trouble you except what concepts or ideas or images you put on them. They're all no thing. Now take that word. See that nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Take that word imagination. And break it down to imagine. Or break it down further to image in. Imagine. And isn't that what we're doing? We're creating conceptual or mental images.

Take them to be real. Put the energy of belief in them. Take them to be real and semi-substantial. And get lost in the belief. Now if you look in the mirror what would you see? A reflection or an image. You can't say that image is not there. But go up to try and pull it, grab it out of the mirror, you can't say it is there. So it neither is nor is not. It appears to be so. And they talk about the appearance. They call it phenomenal manifestation. I might have said this before. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. We've taken this manifestation to be real what they say.

Call the other two factors of the Advaita, Satya and Ananda, the three of them, Nama, Rupa, and the other two. Nama is name and Rupa is the form, body, mind. They say the Nama, Rupa is Maya. It's illusion. It's only appearing. It's not true at all. And you look out there and you see it's all appearing, all the things appearing in that emptiness. And it's no thing. Can something come from no thing? Well it can't. Realize that all this manifestation is like a dream. You go to sleep at night and the dream starts up. And you can be in the mountains, in the hills. On the ocean.

Or in the shopping mall. Anywhere at all. And see that body moving around and taking a part in it. And seemingly real. You wake up in the morning. What happens? It all disappears. And there might be memories of some of it there. But it's all disappeared. There's no more mountains or hills in it. Or whatever you dreamed in it. No more shopping malls. But you can see it. You can see it. But you don't realize that you wake up to this dream. And this is the waking dream. Because your body never moved off the bed in that sleeping dream. And no words came out of your mouth.

It's all taking place in that sleep. The difference between this dream and the waking dream is this dream has a seeming continuity. From where you wake up, from where you left off the night before, it seemingly carries on. And all the mountains, the hills, the rivers, the shopping malls or whatever you're doing, they're still there. But they're constantly transient. Like everything in this manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. There's nothing static in it whatsoever. There is no time. Time is a mental concept. Ask yourself, is there a past if I don't think about it? And try and tell me there is without a thought. Is there a future if I don't think about it?

You can't. But you'll say, I was in the past. I'll say, well try and live yesterday. Try and live a moment ago. You realize you can't live a moment ago. You can't live yesterday. But you can recall it. And the only life essence it's got is when you're recalling it right in this moment. Because you can't tell me what you thought a minute ago now unless you recall it. You've got to bring it back into memory. You can anticipate an event. You can't imagine a future. But you can't live a moment in the future. And when are you anticipating and imagining? Right now. If you want to try and tell me what you're going to do when you leave here, you're imagining it and anticipating it.

You're not living in it. So time is spontaneous. When does now begin? You'll try and grab it. You'll say it's beginning right now. And as you're saying that, it's already ending. It's beginning again. So it's spontaneous. The activity. That's the pure intelligence. The activity of knowing. Intelligence energy. You are knowing right now. And that knowing is an activity. The ING on it is something that's happening. And any activity is a movement of energy. And that's what happens to us. Tell me what your next thought's going to be. You won't be able to. You'll say, I don't know. And of course you don't know. But the thought comes up and you say, I'm thinking this thought.

As soon as you say, I'm thinking the thought, you've formed a subject. A thinker. Me. I. I'm thinking. And the thought, I'm thinking, has become the object. So it's a me thinking this thought. Subject, object. Duality. But ask yourself this. Can there be a thinker without thinking? A very rogue scholar would work that out. And can there be the thought without thinking? Can there be a seer without seeing? Or a hearer without hearing? Or a taster without tasting? Or a breathing without a breather? The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the thinking, the ING, is an activity that's going on right in this moment.

I breathe, I see, I think you're relating to a past conceptual image. Right here. Right now. Prisoned. Unaware. Now another way of putting that sat-shet in the end is being, knowing, and loving to be. Anyone who is not being, you realize, no, I'm being. Anyone who is not knowing that, no, you are knowing that. Anyone who is not happy to be. Anyone who wants to be dead right now, of course you don't, so you're happy to be. Now have a look at that word being. You think if I do this and do that, I will become something. But becoming won't be being. And becoming implies a future time.

You call yourself a human being. And if you believe in God, you'll call God the Supreme Being. What happens if you take that word supreme off? And take that word human off? Then try and separate the beingness. Without the word. Can anyone here say, I am not? You can say it. Shout it forever. But what's enabling you to say it? Isn't it that beingness now that's enabling you to say, if that life essence wasn't there, what could you say about it? You'd be a corpse. And when you are a corpse, before that body breaks down and rots, the eyes are still there, the heart's still there.

The lungs, the liver, the kidneys, the bones. The brain. All those organs are still there. But without that life essence throbbing and pulsating through them, what good is it? Life has gone out of the body. It's not a very good to you without the life. But analogy is like a computer. You've got a computer with all that information in it. But you can push those keys as much as you like and run that mouse over it. If the power's not on, what's it going to get out of it? Not the least little thing. So what must be? You must be that life, that power. That's why Christ could say, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.

And that's why Nisargadatta tells you, there is only life. There is nobody who lives a lie. And life lives on life. And out of life, more life comes. You are that. And that is the absolute, or the great perfection. But now we say, oh, that's it. And now we say, I am the body, I am the mind, I am this person. We put these limitations and boundaries on ourselves, and we suffer accordingly. See how that works. Something comes up and you like it. Not really, as I said before, it's transient. And transient means it's ever changing, static, constantly changing. Something comes up and I like it.

Not realizing it's transient. And the thoughts in your body are changing right now. They're changing. And this body's changing right now. There are thousands of cells dying right at this moment. And being replaced. And each cell that's being replaced is replaced by a liver cell won't become a brain cell. Heart cell won't become a skin cell. Kidney cell won't become a cell. Heart cell. It's constantly pointing out that each cell is suffused with that intelligence energy, with that life. It knows what to do. So it's replacing it. That life is constantly patterning, functioning, and renewing itself every so-called moment. The moment seems to be thought.

Are that presence, it's immediacy, the presence, awareness. Are you unaware right now? You know you're not unaware, so you must be aware. You don't have to look for awareness or try and become aware. You are already there. Now, something comes up, you like it. Not realizing that everything is transient. We don't want the good things to go. So what do we do? We try and keep them there. How do we try to keep them there? Try to resist it from going. And don't let it go. Don't you realize any resistance you are in is conflict. Resistance is conflict. And any conflict you are in makes you uneasy, fearful, anxious, depressed, guilty.

Resistance is conflict. And that which is conflict in the resistance, the anger and the fear, uneasiness is disease. So that's what's happening in this body, resistance, conflict, and disease. Something comes up you don't like. Oh, I shouldn't be thinking that. I'm not a bad person for thinking that. Or I'm unhappy. That's bad. I've got to get rid of that. So what do we do? We don't want it to be there, so we resist it. Again, in conflict and disease. This is what our life consists of, this constant resistance, conflict, and disease. Because we're constantly in the head, reinforcing it. Thinking it out instead of saying it.

So don't let it go. Instead of asking yourself the simple question, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? And you can't say it's right or wrong, good or bad or anything like that. Where's the resistance going on then? You've got nothing to resist. Use the analogy like the clouds in the sky. You go outside on a cloudy day. Would you say the sun's not in the sky? No, you wouldn't because we've investigated. We know the sun doesn't leave the sky. If you ask yourself what forms the cloud? And you realise the sun itself forms the cloud. Now the vastness of the sun is so great it doesn't know anything about the cloud.

But in its radiance and its heat, what does it do? It evaporates water. That water rises and cools, condenses and forms the cloud. And the cloud will cool down, it'll come down as rain. Or cool down further and become ice. Of course, no. But it's all come about from the radiance of the sun. Now there's no cloud stitched in the sky or fixated. Clouds come and go. A cloud comes down as rain or it's blown away, dissolves and disperses or blown around by the wind. What happens? Isn't there more clarity with the sun shining? Isn't there more radiance, more warmth, more reflection? More compassion? More love?

Isn't that the same as when the mind's not there carrying on? That's where the clarity comes in and the knowing that you are. And the recognition of your true nature. I am that pure being. And being will never become. Becoming implies a future time. And there's no time, so it's only got this presence. So you are only and always that being. And that being is knowing. And it's loving to be. That's the Satchitananda, the Nama Rupa they talk about. And you are already that. So as they say, start from the fact that you are already that. And realise the search itself becomes the problem. What's wrong with right now?

What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? And they'll tell you, you'll never find the answer in the mind. We think we're going to get it through investigation and looking in the mind, but you never will. They don't put it in those terms. They call it the peace that passes all understanding in the scripture. Peace that passes all understanding. What's the peace that passes all understanding? Isn't it when the mind is not? That's when the peace is. When the mind is there, it's vibrating all the time. There is no peace. And aren't you prior to thought? You're before the mind. Ever have it.

So all this manifestation, appearance and all, and you can be free of these concepts and ideas. You'll be what you always have been, always will be. That pure intelligence is there. Intelligent entity. Cognising emptiness. Or if you like to use a term, the pure godliness. The one essence that's pattening, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing as everything. That is all there is. It's absolute. The great perfection. Now you see, you can't grasp it with a concept. That's why they call it non-conceptual, ever fresh. Presence. That's when. Try to grasp it with a word and you lose it. Same with this body. This body, you think this body's real.

But investigate the body. Am I the body? What's the body made up of? Made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you. Well take the element water out of your body. Body's 60% water. How long are we going to last without that element? Take the word fire. The body temperature. You'd soon get hypothermia and die. Get off the earth if you can. Get out of space. You can't get out of space where it's been. So you realise you're not separate from those elements at all. And all those elements can be broken down into sub-intelligent particles. Pure intelligence energy. The same with the mind.

Show me this thing you call mind if you believe you are the mind. You say my mind just the same as you say my body. Just the same. My house, my car, my goat. Innately you know they're not the mind. What is mind? Can you show me a thing called mind? I can't show you anything called mind. And there's no such thing called mind apart from thought. And what is thought? You realise thought's a concept. A word. What's a word? Sound. What's a sound? A vibration. And what's a vibration? A movement of energy. You get a guitar string or a note on the piano and hit it, you'll get a sound.

Now that sound can be just noise or it can make music out of it. Musical notes do things. So you see how these sounds that are happening in this body can appear as words, thoughts, ideas and concepts and images. But the words are not the real. They're not real. They're not the thing. You're not this body, that's mind. That animating intelligence energy. The life itself. The Sarkarita tells you that also. It says there's only life, there's nobody who lives a lie. Realise you are dreaming a dream you call the world. And he says stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is you love one part of the dream and not the other.

Love all of it or none of it. And the rest will be done for you. By the same life essence that brought you into existence. How did you come into existence? Have a look at that. Go back to your father and your mother. Realising that pattern, that life energy that you call your father. Intelligence. Intelligence is suffusing it. And the food it's eating and the breath is taken. Enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. But that sperm was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. The same in your mother. That life essence that pattern shaped and formed your mother.

In that pattern it made them an egg or an ova to form. And that ovum or egg was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm knew what to do. It swam to the ovum. Had the capacity of swimming. Put it under a microscope and see. When those two came together, what happened? The genes doubled. The cells in it doubled. And the little embryo began to form. And the foetus. And that formed that body that you are today. What were you doing about it then if you think you're wrong? Do you think you've got to grow a heart or a lung?

Or maybe a liver? You didn't. It knew what to do. And it's grown you ever since. And that's why when the Sargonaut says the rest will be done for you. He's telling you what is happening naturally. Inevitably. It's so. But we think we've got to do this and got to do that. And what we've done. Instead of seeing the thought of it. That the good is just a vibration also. God, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, flat. Vibrating into the opposite. We think they're separate. And we like the good effects. Thoughts. And don't like the bad. So we think we can get rid of the bad. And hang on to the good.

But there's no one-ended stick. Each stick's got two ends to it. So the thin end might be the bad end. And the thick end might be the good end. Whichever way you like to vibrate it. But you see they'll vibrate from one to the other. And have a look. There's no thought fixed in your head. So in trying to get rid of the one. And hang on to the good. It doesn't happen. Well they're both mind. That's the way thinking vibrates. But realise there is no thought fixed in your head either. Thoughts come and go. Where were yesterday's thoughts now? Where is the thought you had a minute ago?

Constantly transient and going. Where do they all seemingly appear? In this thing called mind. You say my mind. My thought. If you were the thought, do you think it's better? Who's the my or the me that's having the thought? Is it the person? Or is it the very life itself? That sentience. That knowing energy. There is only life. There is nobody who lives on life. And out of life, as I just told you. More life comes. So life is continuously, spontaneously, patterning, shaping, forming. And you are that. Take a stance as that. Get the confidence in that. Knowing that you are. Because what we're taking on to be ourselves.

To be this separate entity. This individual. There will always be the fear, the anger, the stress, the guilt, the unhappiness. So, I suppose anyone. Will be able to find out what you did. And what you were doing. And what you're going to do. And what you've got to say. Now, some of you are being here, and some of the people listening. Know all about this. Some of you have got a taste of it. Some of you might be new to it. Some of you might have questions. But those of you who understand it. Tell us about it. We have a request, darling. So there is Amarnath asking, dear Bob.

Can you speak about this? between thoughtless non-conceptual awareness and thoughts without thinker please. Thoughts is non-conceptual awareness is life itself. Yes Amanda wants you to talk about the difference between thoughtless non-conceptual awareness means completely silent non-conceptual awareness and thoughts without thinker. Got to think about it to tell you. Thought free ever present and ever without a thought you've had tastes of things without a thought what's happened there's a sense of well-being conceptual imaging the fears the anger the distress disappear just relax in there's a saying in the dog gen teachings is very simple very true let it rest in its uncontrived singularity it's a singularity it's only the one.

Without contriving and putting any thoughts feelings or emotions on it. Yes so now if you would like to put your ears you probably would and it did make big difference Bob. Thank you. It did yes. You're ganging up on me. We invite everyone now to come and ask questions or comment or add to it we're gonna be passing on the mic. So that we are audible for those who are online with us and who will be watching us later. Do you want to say something? Oh please. So I understand this concept that you're talking about and I experience it at times but I also get pulled back into the world like back into concepts and situations and separation.

Is how do you. Can you speak to the mic? Yep. Thank you. How do you. Is there something you can do to just keep reminding yourself to come back to this non conceptual idea? Yeah. Just keep reminding yourself that you are the absolute and not the body mind. You are the great perfection. You are the absolute. There's a saying in the Christian scriptures be you transformed by the renewing of your mind. How would you renew your mind? Just keep reminding. I am that. I am that one essence. I'm not the body, I'm not the person. And that, innately you know that. Because you know that that's the tree, that's the flower.

Everything is already that. And you're gonna discriminate and divide yourself from that by saying I've got to become. Coming up like that, well it's a habit we've taken on since we were children. We were told we were this person, this body mind. Went to school and they reinforced it. Then we've had to go back to that. Then we've been reinforcing it ourselves. And 99.9% of the population are reinforcing it. There's only a very few that understand it or recognise it. And they're the ones that the traditions have formed around. And they've set them up as saints, sages, saviours and seers. And worshipped the messenger and lost sight of the message.

And they call it ignorance. And we think they're mainly, well we're dull or stupid but they're not. What they mean is we are ignoring our true nature. And focusing into this conceptual belief. It's a simple matter of ignoring it. There is a really nice way in which I think Bob reminds about that to people. Because having the so called intellectual understanding that nothing has independent nature. And nothing has reality, everything is empty. That's one part of the coin. And we can dwell and get excited about all the knowing. But there is a really, really basic undeniable fact of our existence that is being overlooked. And I love when Bob simply asks, are you existing?

Oh yeah, I'm existing. Yeah. Are you aware? Are you unaware? Yeah, I'm existing, I'm aware. That's it. It feels like, oh yeah, but comparing to the beautiful intellectual concepts of everything. Having no empty nature and just vibrating or even no substance that vibrates. Oh, that's so much more exciting than the basic fact of existence. Existence, yeah, what taste does that have? That doesn't have any taste. That's not something attractive. So we straight away focus into everything that is more kind of compelling for the mind to roll and chew on it. Because it is pleasurable to understand difficult philosophical concepts. It gives you sort of a kick.

But the basic, what Bob says, our true nature is overlooked, is ignored. Because it has absolutely no taste for the mind. For the mind it really is nothing. Nothing. The fact of existence, can't grasp it, but you can't deny it either. And really just coming back, rather than understanding what everyone says, and rather than having that kick from these difficult concepts that are being grasped, you can have direct experience and you always do have direct experience of existence. It's never far away. The only thing is, it is so inattractive that we overlook it. But really understanding that this is the basic reality. This is the reality on which exciting things show up.

Come and go. But the basic screen, which is not even a screen because it doesn't have, it's not like there is a thing there. But it is the undeniable fact of presence. And staying with that and reminding yourself that, ah yes, I have to be first to even think. So I am. And that I am, it really becomes blissfully delicious if the attention, rather than being wasted into that phenomena, is withdrawn from the phenomena and rests in that simplicity and beauty and elegance of the miracle of existence. Because it is totally ungraspable, unexplainable, but it is miraculous. So, yeah. Can you say what happened? Please.

Bob, get off your light. The thing. The sense of presence that Kat and Bob are talking about, it can be a sort of investigation. You've heard Bob talk about the investigation. So you say that sometimes the mind comes back in and you get caught back up in the story. Because it's always a story, isn't it? And the investigation is that sense of presence, that I. When you come back to that, the story and the presence can't exist together. And coming back, I even sort of dropped even the concept of I am that. Because even that still gives you two things, I and that. For me, I come back to the I am I, which is what Ramana talked about.

Because that sense of I is that. There's not an I and that. It's just coming back to that sense of I. And in that, that is the investigation, coming back to that sense, which you don't ever leave it. It's just the concept is you've never left it. But coming back to that. And in that presence, in that I-ness, there is no story. There is no, that just, it ceases. That is the investigation. There's not an I looking at another I trying to find the self. It's just coming back to who you are. So that I am I. I exist. And then in that existence, that story can't continue.

And the more you come back to that investigation, to what you are, the more, like Bob was saying, you take your stance in that I, that becomes home. And that becomes, and that way, like the question that the other fellow was asking about thought-free conceptual awareness, doesn't mean that there's no thoughts. It means that it's thought-free. The thoughts are free to arise and to move on. They're not being attached to a reference point where the thoughts are about a me or there's a me thinking them. And then that creates the reference point, the sense of a separate entity. So the thoughts are free. The thoughts are not a problem.

There is no problems. It's only when they're pointed to that me and then the one concept joins and has babies with other concepts and they start making a story. And the story is always referenced to me. And just notice that it's happening. And it be... I remember early in this process for me, I used to think there was another me investigating the me. And there's a me, well, who is it that's feeling upset? It's me. Well, who's me? And you're just lost in this kind of conceptual... It's just coming back to that sense of I. Is there... Is there an I? And I mean, it seems to be referring to an I as being an ultimate or the eternal.

Is there an eternal, an ultimate, and so on? It's just this. We can only use concepts to talk about what this is. So you can call it I, you can call it awareness, non-conceptual awareness, you can call it reality, you can call it God. They're all just pointers to whatever this is that... And you know what I'm pointing to. But is there anything to point to? No. Well, you can't point to all that is, no. No. But then there is no such thing. I mean, you know, not even an ultimate. I'm just coming from the ultimate. I'm just coming from Nagarjuna, which Bob knows. We both like him.

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, the sort of the ultimate nature of things is there is no ultimate nature of things. Can you deny that you exist? No, no. That's the point. But that doesn't deny the appearance of things. So I can still talk conventionally of me, I, or even talk conventional, conventional ultimate, but there are no actual references to those, you know, actual entities involved. So everything is dependently arisen. And nothing has its own nature, nothing, because everything depends on everything else, including an ultimate, or the eternal witness, or the intelligence energy. It's dependently arisen also. It depends on a person calling it an ultimate, for one thing.

So it doesn't have its own, nothing has its own intrinsic nature. Anyway, I shouldn't be going on about this. There are a lot of concepts there, but really, basically what I'm trying to point out to you is the story. And most of us suffering, is created from a narrative that plays out, and the narrative tends to congeal and point to a reference point that we feel is there, that seems to be real. And is not. That's the dreaming of the mind. It dreams a character. Yes, sure. I think from the point of attention, the inattention, of our true nature is recognised. And the habit is the naming and claiming, the reference point, as was pointed out.

That's the habit. And so what's beautiful is the minute you see that, you can just take a breath. And you're going back, if you like, just to give it a pointer. And that's okay. Because our entire life, we've had that reference point, and we've named and claimed. And so it's a habit. But you also have said in the beginning of what you spoke of, is that you know it. I've experienced it. It's not even really an experience really. It's a... It's the truth of your own nature, the truth of your own being. You can't negate your existence. But yeah, that naming and claiming, it's great when you really see that from the point of attention, you see your inattention.

And you can just take a big breath, or not. And you're just home again, as was pointed out. Non-resistance, noticing the resistance. The same sort of concept. And you can only notice that resistance from non-resistance, or from attention. Notice the inattention from attention. They're all pointers to... Yeah, pointers home. Thank you. Your... Your resist... Persist. Yeah. Your question was about how do you remind yourself. But there's no one here to remind anyone. You know, there was... I don't know if that made any sense, what I just said, but... Life... The life that you are will bring up lots of opportunities. Usually in the form of...

Some form of resistance. And when that resistance shows up, it's another invitation. It can be anyway. It can be used that way. Okay, to say, Right, well, who's resisting? Or who's wanting to get back to that... That moment that exists in memory of when it was non-conceptual? Does that make sense, Steve? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, who's wanting to get back to that? And... When it's seen again, you're back. You never left. To the place you never left. You've always been. Yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it. What Janie said and what Kat said were expanding for me. Absolutely. And this is a lot of what Hale talks about.

Yeah. I'm doing his resistance course at the moment. Yeah. It's his best one. Yeah. I got a few things here from the... Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. No, no, go on, go on. I just... Oh, I was just wondering, can you expand a little bit more about resistance is conflict? Non-resistance, non-conflict. Yeah. In conflict, you're fighting with it, aren't you? Mm. Resisting it. Non-conflict is just as it is. Going with the flow. Leave everything as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. And sometimes there is a situation then resistance comes up naturally. And like, for example, there is cold and the body is resisting the cold.

And there can be a narrative that resists the natural resistance and that causes suffering. When there is cold and body crawls, there's no suffering. It's just what is. But when there is a thought in the head, oh, shit, I'm resisting. I shouldn't be doing it. I'm... There's something wrong. That causes suffering. And that narrative can be questioned. That narrative... Then again, we're coming back to the ideas, which what you were saying, Tony, absolutely spot on. This is all exactly... As you say, nothing has any independent nature. Everything is interdependent on everything else, including the consciousness. Absolutely. But how theoretical is that? Comparing to the practical realization that you exist prior to this theoretical elaboration and exciting philosophical stuff.

You exist. Your existence is undeniable right here, right now. Whether you're thinking those thoughts or those thoughts are not there, you are. This is as simple as that. And now, on that I am, the idea comes or it gets cold and the body crawls. And then the thought comes, oh, it shouldn't be cold. Or what should I do? Those things are appearing on that basic screen of existence, which is undeniable, which doesn't have any substance. It can't be grasped. It can't be even defined because you have to kind of exit the existence to the other. You have to define existence. So you can't even say there is an existence or you can't say there isn't.

But really, you can't deny that you are. And on that basic screen, everything comes. Conflict, resistance, non-resistance, every appearance, every thought, every feeling, every form, all of it comes and goes. That's why we call it passing phenomena. Interdependently arising. Nothing has independent nature. Even the body, even the, like Bob was saying, elements collaborating, memories, personalities, they all come as one universe creating that sort of an outcome. It's like, yeah, butterfly flipping the wings and the hurricane comes on the other side of the world. But not only butterfly, also everything else in the world. But I wanted to include, we have about 30 people with us who are online, and they say, I have few screenshots from what they say.

So Amarnath say, ah, a delight, beautiful birthday wishes to Kat once again. Thank you, Amarnath. That's illusion of birth and death, also enjoyed without enjoyer. And now we have JK. Can you please comment about Nisargadatta quote? And oh my gosh, oh yeah, there is a quote. When you love the self and nothing else, you go beyond the selfish and the unselfish. All distinctions lose their meaning. Love of one and love of all merge together in love, pure and simple, addressed to none, denied to none. Would you like to comment on that? No, there's no discriminating thoughts away, right? Just as it is. In a way.

In a way. No, no, no, it's the cable, it's the cable. You're never in a way. Okay, so when no discriminating thought arises, just as it is. Just as it is. That is a chair, that is the table. That is not, so not is. Yes, so all this is, when Nisargadatta says, all distinctions lose their meaning when you go beyond selfish and unselfish. Basically you go beyond concepts. Selfish, unselfish, they are concepts. It's the I or me. Selfish. Yes, so that was the request. Yes, so that was the request from J.K. G.K. And Megan says, and none of the saints, sages, and seers have ever gone beyond no thing.

Yeah, that was when you were referring to the no thing. And now we have Amarnath. Thanks a million, Bob. No difference at all if we don't think. We are prior to thought, and inside between outside thoughts too. Never getting affected or touched, enter without entrance. This was the comment when Amarnath requested you to talk about non-conceptual thoughtless awareness and thinking without the thinker. And you said the difference only when you think. Yes, so Julia, British Julia says, I have to be first before I think. Beautifully simply put, Kat. Yeah, it is that simple. And thank you, says Urmila. And Amarnath says, beautiful. We are indescribable.

We can describe only what we are not. The moment we describe reference point and concepts are created. And Amarnath also say, replying to, replying to GK, beautiful. Love equals self. There is no separate lover, beloved, loving trio. Triad are lost their meaning. It is non-dual, inseparable. Beautiful, beautifully put. And I think I see if I have any more of the comments here. Now Amarnath says also, beautiful, Jane. We know the knower and ignorer too. That's it for now. So anyone has, oh, I think there is one more comment which I didn't see yet. Experience is knowledge. This doesn't know anything. It just is. I think Julia also says to Amarnath, just a subtle knowing and me thought that wants to know.

Be okay with not knowing it. Beautiful, Julia, absolutely. Being okay with not knowing all the freedom. Because there is no one to know. If there is no one there who wants to know, who needs that conceptual understanding. But if there is no separate entity that wants to know, there is a freedom and there is a comfort in not knowing, not resisting, just like the animals. They don't have concepts that they need anything else than what is. So they basically just happy in the moment. They are free. I was thinking about this cat. Yes. The cat just walked in and sat down. Just a thought sort of came to me that this cat, he doesn't need all this spiel and stuff.

He just comes in, sits down on his little jacket there and goes to sleep. It's only for us silly humans, you know, that come in and tell us what it's all about, Bob. You know. Cat doesn't give a stuff. It's as happy as... That's right. It's just being. That is pure being. So we're the only species that struggles with our existence. Yes. Ask questions, be or not to be. Who's got that choice? The illusion of choice is another fascinating aspect of that collective story that we have about being separate entities in the separate bodies. The body may appear separate. The entity may appear to be there.

And the choices may appear to exist. The decisions may appear to be made by individual. That's how brilliant the illusion is. But if you really see that the cat who doesn't have the idea of being separate self, it doesn't have that imagining part of the brain where he's hallucinating that there's someone inside who takes decisions, that cat is still making very good choices. If you give him a pig heart and a pig liver, it knows what it prefers. The choices are still there. The cat prefers. The choices are being made even though there is no taking credit. There is no idea that this is me, this is I, this is that little ghost or little soul or little ego or whatever it is that made that choice.

The choices made even... Just so it goes back to... What was it? The rest will be done for you. The rest will be done for you. Or what Tony was saying. Everything is totally interdependent. The way that the cat chooses the heart over the liver depends on absolutely every particle in the whole universe. So not only is not just cat who... It looked like cat took the decision, but the whole universe, because it is inseparable, took the decision for cat. It conditioned the cat. It gave cat past experiences. It gave cat the brain, which remembers this part and not the other associations. It gave the universe the cow that could have been...

Or the pig could have been killed for that heart or liver to show up on the plate. It gave it us who actually cut it in pieces. All universe contributed to that simple decision. And the same with every decision we are making every day. Beginning from the basic decision like what do I put on or what do I have for lunch or anything, which way I'm going to brush my teeth. They all come as the interdependent arising. So they arising together with the rest of the whole universe, with the whole environment dancing together. And playing out and this is the outcome. It's no simple cause and effect like Bob says.

With the funny exemption, which is the beautiful spin Bob has on the ridiculousness of karma, because there can't be karma if everything has infinite amount of causes, which means it's uncaused. With the little spin that he says, there is one thing that does have consequences. If I believe I'm independent entity, I'll suffer. Cause and effect. Suffering is because of... Because of the belief of separate me. There is no separate me, there is no suffering. It's all story. That was great. Just continuing with the cat and following on with everything you're saying. I was observing the cat before as well. And the observation, it was very, very, very, very simple observation.

And I was watching every little micro movement. And it was just magic. It was just part of an element of the whole appearance. Just part of the manifestation appearing in that way. And then this memory came in on how I used to observe and how most people still observe. And it was an observation through the filtration of thinking. It's like, oh, the cat's looking here. It wants this or it likes this. But watching it now, and I just remembered all that. I thought, wow. What a different way of seeing things. You're seeing exactly the same appearance, yet one way is just layered. You're actually seeing it through filtration of concepts.

Anthropomorphism. Totally, totally. But this was just, and still is, just everything's doing its doing in whatever way that appears. As it is. As it is. It's beautiful. Uncontrived and in one singularity. And miraculous in a way. Yes. Well, the way you normally see us as human, projecting human traits and understanding, it's really just projection. It's the world that is being constructed in the mind rather than discovered in a non-conceptual. Just... Oh, Kat. Go on. I have a question for you. Ah, thank you. You've been talking about non-conceptual awareness and direct experience, which I think, and usually that's sort of held up, well, I've had direct experience.

And can you have, you know, this direct experience of I am, you know, or whatever you're mentioning? Existence. Now, what is it, what would you say is the direct experience of that? Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I've got an answer. Wonderful question. This is as we were pointing all the time. It is something that cannot be denied. It is not an experience that can be described in words. Like, it doesn't have any flavour. Yeah, it doesn't have taste. It doesn't have colour. It doesn't have shape. It doesn't have any sensational component to it. But it can't be denied. So you exist. You can't say I don't exist.

Because even to say I don't exist, you do have to exist to say it. But not as imagined self, but the pure existence, pure existing. Like Jamie was saying, it's not really me having an experience, me having direct experience. No. It's just the experiencing, expressing through that mouthpiece or through any other mouthpiece. Experiencing is going on continuously, but the basic screen of that experiencing, of the experiencing, of being, is flavourless, is sensational-less. It doesn't... You can't describe it, because if you start describing it, you're using the mind. And when you describe things with the mind, you say it doesn't exist. There is no such thing as being.

For the mind, it does not exist. But even for not... To say that it doesn't exist, something has to be there to actually say it. So there is an existence that says it. But it's not existence as an object. It's existing. Yeah, I sort of agree. Just... I don't want to go on about it, but I think it's very important, you know, as to what is this non-conceptual awareness and what is this direct experience. Just from my, you know, picked up, is non-conceptual awareness is basically the non-duality of... duality and non-duality. And I... The direct experience of this is the knowledge, so to speak, of the non-origination of anything in its intrinsic being.

And nothing's really ever originated in the first place. See, a mirage of a lake of water, that lake of water never existed in the first place. The snake... Yeah, the rope mistaken as a snake, the snake never existed in the first place. There was never ever a snake there. There's never been a world, there's never been a me, there's never been a you, there's never been, you know... Now that sort of, that sort of, you know, may not be that helpful. I mean, it's a sort of, you know, getting down, but... It's a good point. And... Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And... But that's not negating, you know, our normal things.

If... If... If we knew that, really had direct experience of that, well, I... I would be first to admit that I certainly don't. You know? But at least getting the viewpoint is a starting... A start for it. I was gonna say, I love that point of Bob, like... Like the senses are already happening in the immediacy. The senses are already operating. It's too late for a separate false self to attach onto it. You know what I mean? It comes after the fact. It tries to go, I'm seeing... The seeing's already fucking happening. So... It's... It's too late. So, I think there've been some studies saying that they've looked at thoughts and...

They're like a split second or a millisecond later, like, there's a separate me attaching to the thought, sort of thing. I think they've done some... Some German scientists did some studies around it, that it comes like a split second after the thought. The idea of a separate entity. So... I mean, that's pretty powerful in itself. It's... Like, we're already there. But the me is adding on after the fact. Yeah. It's coming after. Yeah. So, it's not real. No. It's hallucinated. So, any stories are none of them real. Yeah. I have a comment here. Oh, sorry. And that's British Julia. Yeah. She says, Gosh, what an incredible pointers, everyone.

Gratitude. This is so simple. Game of hide and seek is playing out. I am. Stop here. And Thierry say, Experience is knowledge. This doesn't know anything. It just is. And Julia says, Cat versus cat gurus are the best. One cat spelled with C, one with K. And Alvaro, wonderful gathering. Great pointers. No separation. No distance. No matter the country where we are. Everything is right here. Muchas gracias, beautiful people. Thank you. And we have Amarnath. Nothing is happening. No one is here. Yet I am everywhere and all happening is within, without, and beyond. Just be, says Ram. And I don't know if I've missed any comments because again, I'll just check on this one.

You want to hold it? I see. Contraction and expansions are also concepts, says Amarnath. Contraction, expansion. Yes, the concepts. The labels put on sensation. It really is just an energy. And now I think that we're all headed. Now I think we got it all. Can't see. Can't see. Please. While we, contractions and whatever else it was. Expansions. And expansions. I forgot what I was going to say. That yes, they're also dependent. They arisen so they don't have their own nature. They're not intrinsic essential entities. Yeah. And they're sort of transient as Bob has been talking about, which I agree with. And transient things can change.

Yeah. If contraction was intransient, permanent life, it couldn't change. That's the way we think things are. But things are not permanent entities. They're impermanent, transient things. So that makes liberation possible, change possible. Yeah. And that's what Nagarjuna, he attacks inherent existence. Anything that inherently exists is what the world thinks. The world thinks things are absolutely real. They're solid things. They're solid, substantial entities. And even my suffering is real. It's really there. And so, and that's what Nagarjuna attacks the idea of an inherently existing things. And shows that nothing's inherently existing because everything depends on everything else. And for one thing, you'll find everything is going to depend on a person.

Or you can say it's going to, and that'll be enough, just one thing. Of course, as you pointed out, things are dependent on everything. You know, the whole world is interdependent. But we only need to find one thing. And you'll find everything is dependent on a person, on this supposed self. And this self is very, very tricky. And, you know, it seems like there's a self there. It really does seem like it, an inherent self. But that self can, a supposed self, can only show up with some aggregates. You know, this supposed self that seems real in me. If there were no aggregates here, it wouldn't be there.

Like just there, I don't see any self there. This is no aggregate sort of thing, you know. So it's a supposed self. But that self is dependent on aggregates. And if it's dependent on aggregates, it's not a self-contained entity. It doesn't really have any inherent nature. You know, because it's depending on other things to prop it up. And aggregates is just the first thing. So, but it's very, very tricky. You know, if anyone gets a hold of no self, you've got the whole box and dice, you know, there. Which Bob has been flogging for years. You know. And, yeah, okay. Yeah, beautiful. Beautifully said. We actually made this joking comment that everything is interdependent and depends on the whole world except of the separate self which causes, which cause and effect.

You're totally right. We are joking about it. But the truth is that even the illusion of self depends on the rest of the world, on upbringing, on the conditioning, on the past experiences. Absolutely. There can't be an illusion of self without the rest of the whole appearance because it isn't separate. Nothing's separate. Dependent origination is the key. That's the same as emptiness. Yep. Mm-hmm. Dependently arisen things are empty because they depend on other things. That's all. Be sure. Need two microphones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The telephone doesn't accept two. Can only have one. No creator. No creation. And no creature. And no creature. That's right. Yes.

Mm-hmm. One without a second. And we have, yeah, one without a second, says Jane. And now Alvar... Oh, yeah. We read this one. And we have Amarnath. Beautiful discussion without this . If we think our self person, we see persons everywhere. If we don't think everything is personal, non-dual awareness and a lot of faces there. Yes. And I'll have a look if we have anything new. Oh, no. We have no creation, no creature. Just as it is. Just as it is. Unauthorized, unmodified, uncorrected. No comparison. No preference, no comparison. No partiality. No partiality. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation.

No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. No separation. Yes. Yes. Creation depends on a creator. The creator depends on a creature. But because they're all dependent on each other, none of them are real. Sorry, I've finished that. Yeah, that's fine. You need to say it more. No, it's dependent... The realisation of dependent origination, that's the jewel, according to Nagarjuna. If you realise dependent origination... imagination, you'll start to realize everything because that will sort of refute inherently existing things, which is what is the cause of all suffering, you know, and but also it's only a strategy, you know, and to eliminate, you know, inherent existence.

So once the strategy is used, once we know, then it's to be discarded like a raft. So we don't cling on, you know, like impermanence was used to negate permanent things. But once you realize that, you don't cling to impermanence. We'll be making that permanent, you know, and we'll be caught again. But as an initial step, you know, impermanence or dependence. Dependent origination, whatever you like to call it, is a very vital thing in sort of negating permanence. Permanence or, you know, inherent things, things really existing. That's what this world has got. So the biggest thing that the world's caught up and the biggest one would be an inherently existing self, you know, an entity sort of thing.

And yeah, okay. The whole arising ego is the false. There is only one ego. When that arises, all the multiplicity comes in. And that's, you know, the snake and the rope. We see the multiplicity and all that this independent arising, whatever you call it, and that that's the snake. Is it really so? And if you can see the center clause never existed, who has a problem? We almost say arriving at the time for our little lunch And again, I made some hot chai and we have a couple of plates of stuff. So everyone is welcome to move to that space there. And have a little bit of a snack.

And thank you. Everyone. Yeah, that was, that was beautiful. Thank you for contribution, everyone. and the questions from online. And again, we only allow to have 10 people, so if anyone wants to show up the first available time now to book the 10 people is December. We are having a little bit of a waiting list. We hope that the restrictions will change. Just a reminder. But thank you for being there, and welcome to our little snack place. Thank you.