Sailor Bob - nonduality. Let's just pretend we are all humans! 31 Oct 2021

You're starting. We started. Welcome everyone. So we're going to run the names as usually. And Richard. Richard. Vivian. Joe. Ruth. Catherine. And Tess. Just in time. Hello everyone. Good to see you all again. Been pretty bare in here for quite a while. But the old spiel hasn't changed. Still talk about the same. Same old, same old. And there's not anything new. Being the same old. Same old, same old. We base it on what the ancient traditions tell us. The truth is in all of them. If you look deeply enough. And that's the saying, know the truth and the truth will set you free. And that thing we call truth is going to free you from the bondage of self.

What's the bondage of self? Believing there is a personal self rather than taking notice of what the ancient scriptures tell us. There is only one self. Atman or self. That's the only one. There's no personal self. And a little bit of investigation. That's the thing they say also. That the false cannot stand up to investigations. So we've got some of these, a lot of these erroneous beliefs we've taken on board. And until they're investigated and seen through, they will remain there. And they remain in that bondage. The bondage of self. Not the real self, but the conceptual self. Or the self we imagine to be real.

The personal self. And that person, where does that word person come from? It comes from the ancient Latin persona. Meaning a mask. A mask of concepts, ideas, images. That we've taken to be real. And I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, not so good. I'm having a rough trot or things are going beautifully for me. Or I'm unhappy or I'm at peace. Or whatever concepts come up. I put this on this so-called personal self. And the energy of belief goes into it and makes it seemingly real. And we suffer accordingly. But the self, they're talking about that man, is absolute. It is the totality.

It is the great perfection. You can't add anything to the absolute. You can't take anything away from it. Everything is that. And that's one of the statements we've taken on board and believe in. I am that. And innately you know that because they say that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room you're in. Everything is already that. But we don't leave that. We discriminate it with words. And that's another thing we need to look at. Words. When Hensing Ming at the finish it says words. The way is beyond language. Beyond language. Prior to the word. For in it there's no yesterday, no tomorrow and no today.

And they're all words which the energy of belief is that they're something that they really are. But look into the word. How many words were you born with? You can't remember your birth. Why? Because you didn't have any words. And you didn't learn words. And when capacity of reasoning developed and you took up words that your parents around you were speaking words all the time. And that capacity of knowing came upon you. Capacity of reasoning. And you took up some of these words. And we learnt words like I or me or this or that and yesterday, tomorrow. All words or labels. But when you didn't have any words.

You were breathing. Your heart was beating. You were hungry. You'd cry. You're happy. You'd giggle or do whatever happens. And the functioning, the livingness was going on. But it wasn't being discriminated by any words. It was just as is. Now, for a couple of years, it all depends how smart you were. You were without any words. And getting along quite well. It might have been two years. It might have been a year and a half. It might have been three years before you were able to understand those words. So it doesn't matter about the concept of time. But that's the point. We learnt words. And took the words to be real.

When you investigated, there was no word that is the actual. And that's the point. You're not going to be able to understand those words. You're going to be able to understand them. You're going to be able to understand them. You're going to be able to understand them. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in it? Will you drown in it? They're words. But what can you do with it? You can't. The word fire. Cook with it if you can. Heat yourself with it. Burn yourself. Go a little bit closer. Word I or me. What can the word I or me do?

It can't do anything at all. But it's seemingly grasped. And it's seemingly grasped. Somewhere along the line, or it resonates somewhere in this pattern. Instead of taking the I to be just a concept, where it basically came from, the primary moan or thought of the universe, what they call the sound of the universe, Om. I am. Instead of seeing it as that one self, the absolute self, now we've taken it to be the personal self. Me. Bob. So that's what it is. Instead of I am the reality, I am the absolute, it's now become I am Bob, the person. And you can't do much with that I am.

So we add on the idea of being a person, then other concepts and words we've learnt, we add on to it. Because of itself, that I am basic sound, you can't do anything at all with it. Not until something added to it, you can do anything. And the energy of belief goes into it, making it seem to believe it is an entity. I am Bob the Australian. And then we've made this I am, this sound, this vibration, into something seemingly real. I am this person. I am this individual. And not only that, we've learnt other words like good, bad, pleasant pain, I'm a good fella, or I'm not so good, or I'm fearful, I'm anxious.

Put the concepts on all these words we're picking up. Put the meaning onto them. Instead of now relating and being what you actually are, the one self, the Atman, the one godliness, the one absolute, we've divided ourselves up into this conceptual image. A conceptual image. And I'm a good fella. That energy of belief goes into it. And this I becomes the ego, the self-centre, or the reference point. Now I'm relating to something. Relating to a conceptual image, which I don't realise that's what I'm doing. Because I'm relating to the conceptual image of the thought. And if I am a good fella, I think I am a good fella.

Not realising how this mind functions, it's only a vibrating pattern of energy. And with all these words or concepts, forms, seemingly forms, coming into it. Now this body-mind entity that I believe myself to be is good. Or something comes up and the sensations and feelings change. It's not so good. I feel hurt, or depressed, or I feel like I'm going to die. I'm not so good. I'm fearful. I'm anxious. What's changing at all? It's vibrating, of course. Look out there in nature and see it's constantly vibrating. The wind's there one minute, there's no wind the next. Daylight, dark, silence, seasons coming, tides coming in. Who's the I out there that's taking delivery of it?

There is no person or I that's taking delivery of it. And this so-called thing we call God, where's he going to come from? Is he going to come out from heaven or something and say, wave a magic wand and I'll do this or I'll do that? Or is it nature itself? The pure intelligence energy? The Atman, the one self? The absolute self that's vibrating, patterning, shaping and forming all this manifestation? There's nothing personal about it. The person is not reality. It's just a concept, an imagined idea. In the Snarghedattis book, I Am That, I think it's the third chapter, the title of the third chapter.

The person is not the reality. So if you listen to him or reading him, he's telling you how it is. Not only that way, but lots of other ways too. But the way we've taken on this persona is masking our true identity, the natural reality. Because it can, that conceptual thought right here, it becomes a mental image. And what's an image? A reflection. Look in the mirror, you'll see what? All sorts of images or reflections. And the Snarghedatta says again, pointing out, he says, the person is not the reality. He's saying, the person is the reality. The person is not reality. And nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination.

Now all the psychological problems that are going on because we're relating to the person, the mask, and that's what's troubling us. I don't like this and it's not good or I'm fearful or unhappy or anxious about that. And people don't like me and all the conceptual imaging that's going on. See it. See what it is. Conceptual imaging. And nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. These images are troubling you. They're your bondage that we're locked into. What needs to happen? Well, investigate and see if these conceptual images you have about yourself, this capacity of reasoning, this self-centre. Yeah. Self-centre is what we call the ego.

So this ego that we believe ourselves to be and we're suffering from the belief in that. See if it's real or not. And they tell you also in a lot of these traditions that the false cannot stand up to investigation. It's the false that we believe in that's causing all the problems and nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. And as Shakespeare told you, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. I'm saying that's all the problem is. Thinking. Thinking. And what's thinking? Well, the I-N-G on it tells you straight away what it is. It's a vibration. The thinking. It's not something static that's real, solid, and then it's thinking like the same as seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

The I-N-G on it gives us something that's happening right in this immediate scene. But investigate those things and see. Who is this that's thinking? Is it me? This conceptual image? Well, can a conceptual image think? What is it? It's a vibration of energy. Thinking. Something that's vibrating. Is it this believed in body, mind, this person that's thinking? Or is it the very life that you are? That life is animating through that pattern right now like it is in the trees outside, the animals, the birds and the insects. It's vibrating. And that vibrating is a pattern of energy. An intelligent energy. And intelligence is a knowing.

It's a knowing energy. It has a capacity of reasoning. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of thinking. Capacity of knowing. And vibrating is vibrating dualistically instead of being in a singularity because it's got boundaries on it. This is good and it vibrates back to the other and that's bad. This is good and that's bad. This is somewhere in between where it's quite neutral or somewhere else. But, you see, it's not static. It's It's got no centre to it, no circumference, and it's not static at one point. But we think when it comes up in the opposite good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, we think that that's the end of it.

When it's bad, that's the end of it. It's separate from the good. When it's good, that's it. It's good that it doesn't stay. So because it doesn't stay, it's good or bad, implies that it's a movement. It's a vibration. And naturally, because we think it's a movement and believing it to be real, we want the good. We don't want it to vibrate into the opposite end, the bad, and not realise, as Shakespeare said, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Thinking. Not just the... Think. Think. Thought. But thinking. The I-N-G, it gives you something that's happening right in this moment. The ing.

It's not the thought, not just the thought, I think. Because as soon as the thought I think is there, you believe that the thought I am, that thought that's happening, there is a thinker. And the I am is the thinker. The thinker that's thinking this thought. And the thought is just another vibration. The thought I think has become the subject. Relating to this believed in I am that we've taken on board and think it's a subject. Now me, Bob, the Australian, all the conceptual image I've got about myself, the egoic image, believes it is the thinker. The doer. The experiencer. The taster. The toucher. And the thought, what I'm thinking and what I'm experiencing, hearing or tasting or touching, has become the object.

So thinking, which is spontaneous, natural, coming up, has divided itself into subject-object. Dualism. And the thinker, the thought I think, instead of it being the absolute, the great perfection, the one essence, the pure intelligence, has now become a seeming subject. A seeming subject. This little old me that thinks it's wonderful, that thinks it's great, and having a bad trot and dirty on the world because of it, suffering and crying. The believed in. So now, instead of the one Atman, the one self, it's become the personal. Every think-thing around me has become the personal. Every thing that I've done, has become seemingly objects to this subject.

But we need to investigate the subject and see if it is real. Now we look out there in nature. What they tell us in the scriptures, the natural state. And they say, be in that natural state. Not that there are any states, that are static, but be natural. Let it be. Let it be as it is. Instead of that we take the concept, me. I'm, this is naturally me. But it's not. You've got nature all around you. And try and get yourself out of nature. Out of this presence awareness. Separate yourself if you can. But we've taken the idea we are separate. Not realise it's all taking place in nature.

Nature is a basic screen. And which of all these things appear, pattern, shape and form in. The silence, the stillness, the space. Look at space. What is space? Where is space? How far away from you is space? Is it over there at the other end of the room? Where you see these other pattern, shapes and forms sitting? Or is it right here where you are? Closer to you, as they tell you. Closer to you than your breathing. Nearer than your hands and face. Feet. The closest thing to your eyes. What's the first thing you see? Is it you see the people in the chair further away from you?

Or the things in the room? Or is it that space that's right in front of your eyeballs right now? You're not separate from it. And everything, it all appears from there. It's the closest thing to you. You're not separate from it. But we see these other objects and think they're separate. They're far away from it. But space is empty. It has no centre to it. This space is closest to your eyes. Take it out and find a centre to it if you can. But you can't see any final centre. Well, find a circumference. Like go up in an aeroplane and think you're going to fly to the end of space.

You'll be flying for a hell of a long time and still haven't come to the end of it. So space. You must realise on that there's no thing. It has no pattern, no shape or no thing. It is empty of those pattern shapes and things. All the seeming vibrating patterns. But the vibration, the energy is not still. It's appearing as stillness and silence and emptiness. But it's suffused with an innate intelligence. An innate knowing. What's there with you right now? Is there anyone who is not knowing? And that one who's not knowing, would they stand up? So the knowing is there. But we've laid it again to I know.

This conceptual limits. We think now has the capacity of knowing. But have a look at that nature again. That there's no particular self in it. No self in it that's vibrating. But the functioning that's going on in nature. Like the things that are appearing and playing around. And all the rest of it. Happening. It's all suffused with that innate intelligence energy. The vibration. The vibration. Come back to this pattern we call you. What's happening naturally in it? Aren't you breathing? Isn't your heart beating? And your food being digested? Ear and fingernails growing? Life is functioning through that pattern. Go out there, look a bit further in space.

You'll see the energy is stirring up the air. Which is moving and becomes a wind. It's shaking the leaves on the tree and in the boughs. And all the rest of it. Clouds are moving across the sky. Clouds are being formed. What from? The evaporation of water. Sun is moving. The earth is moving around the sun. The sun is shining naturally and effortlessly. It's radiance. It's warming up the earth. Causing plants and things to grow. So that life is suffusing everything. You and I are things. And it's that life that's breathing us. Booting our hearts. Growing our hair and our fingernails. Digesting the food. We're not happy with that.

We think we can do better as this person. So now it's become the personal life. And haven't we got into trouble with that belief? Got into a lot of trouble. Because it's coming up. All the psychological suffering that's going on. The fear. The anxiety. The stress. The guilt. The shame. Remorse. The jealousy. The envy. It's all happening to me. Now if there was no me to relate it to. To take delivery of it. Where would it be? Wouldn't it go back into nature? Now all these opposites are seemingly appearing in nature. But is there anything out there in nature. Is there any big daddy up in the sky.

Who's grabbing at this part. And doesn't like it. Or wants this part. Or is it just spontaneously. Naturally. And effortlessly happening. And you and I are here in this existence. Did we ever say. I'm going to be born. And I'm going to live this life. Can anyone actually remember your birth? Because that you realise you can't even remember your birth. Yet you were forming in the womb. That innate intelligence in you. And the energy. Enabled that little embryo. That little fetus to form. And then later. To form in the womb of your mother. And when it got to a certain stage. The birth happened. It came out.

But you had no words then. So you can't say I was born. Or know anything about it. Though people try and tell you. They were born. And this happened to them. And there's a previous life. When this happened. And all of it. What could it have happened to? If this life wasn't in this particular body. That formed. The life that formed the body. To express through. Before that. What were you. As Agata will ask you. What were you normally. Nine months before conception. What were you then? You can't say you were in any particular form. But you can't take yourself out of that space. Like awareness.

That pure intelligence energy. That was vibrating as this manifestation. And living as it. Patterning, shaping and forming. In all its diversity. In all its wondrous ways. And it brought you and me. These patterns into existence. To express through. Because in its absoluteness. It can't express as anything. It's not having a very good time there. So it's in the. I'll do something about this. In the intelligence. And it did. And the game of life began. Through each and everything that is in it. The life essence in this. Have become the players. We think we can play this life. Not realising. We are part of the patterning too.

Because you and I are things. Just the same as all this manifest. There's a thing. Different things. That's a thing. Trees are things. The flowers are things. Everything are things. This body mind is a thing. All appearing in that space. Like awareness. That silence. The stillness. The empty screen. Which is no thing. Now you've seen the way the life spontaneously functions here. And can you believe. That something. Can come from no thing. You're not a wizard. You're not a magician. So nothing coming. Something is not coming from that no thing. But again we put the wrong angle on it. We call it nothing. Emptiness. A vacuum.

A void. Zero. Zilch. But you know it's not zero zilch. Because. Even if there's very little thoughts there. Or feelings or emotions. Life. Is still vibrant. Filled. And functioning. And expressing through you. As itself. Life. So. And when they say something. Can not come from nothing. Tell you all these things. Which are appearing to be apparent. Are really. No thing. So you and I are no thing. There's a knowing of that here for certain. When it was believed to be a thing. And until it was recognised and understood. There was a hell of a lot of suffering. And pain. And unhappiness. And depression. And stuff going on.

All relating to this so called thing. Which we call the ego. Instead of just. Being. In the natural state. The same as in nature. It's now. Got all sorts of conceptual images and ideas. Which are dividing it up. And which it's fixating on. Attaching to. And suffering accordingly. Here the thing is. That we are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. We are. And so that's yet to be coming out that. . forms out of the conceptualising. It's all in this body, isn't it? Seeming body.

And this body's made up of all these thoughts, feelings, emotions and brains, heart, lungs and everything that's animating it and expressing it to express through. But it doesn't last. After a certain time it'll finish. And then we've got what we call, we see it in other, we call it death. Life and death. What were you before the life began in you? Were you the death? Or were you no thing? When it came about, this thing came out, were you the life? You were, but you didn't realise it. You didn't recognise life is expressing here. You took on, I am. I am the person, I am the body, I am the separate entity.

Not realising that you are the life. And not realising when you look around you and see that that's what's going on all around you is life. And when the saga tells you there is only life, that's all there is. There's absolutely no death in it. Life cannot know death. Death is the absence of seemingly life. And that's what happened because these patterns that I say, constantly transient, constantly changing. And when this body, the life goes in, and out of this body, it stops integrating, what's happened? Have a look at it. Before it rots. You'll see the eyes are still there. The eyes, the wonderful eyes you were seeing through.

The ears were then there, still there, which you're hearing through. The brain was still there, which all these thoughts, feelings were coming up on. The heart, the lungs, all the organs are there. But what's missing? Life. The life itself is missing. So what good are they to it? Now that thing you called you and loved so dearly and wanted to keep, hasn't got what the necessary thing, the life essence itself, has seemingly disappeared. And where would that life essence go to? Where does it come from? It came from the absolute. Did it at any time ever move away from the absolute? It was always the absolute expressing, but the pattern, shapes and forms in which it expressed through, have disappeared.

And it's gone back into its natural life. And when Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life, people thought, oh, that's Christ, he is the way, he is the truth. I've got to become like him, I've got to become that life. But what's the I am? The I am is the sense of presence, which is with you right now, the knowing that you are. So he wasn't talking about himself, and that was what he was trying to explain to you. That essence that you are, you are that and always are and always will be that. And out of life, more life comes.

And I think it's Ram Dass who said, be as you are. Not as you think you are, or what you want to be, just as you are. Just be right here, right now, as you are. In other words, just as it is, in its absoluteness. And know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Set you free from all these beliefs we've taken on board. We took them on when we learnt language, and our people with that capacity of reasoning, had greater capacities of reasoning than a lot of us have, and were able to look a little bit further, and set it up. And that's what we're doing.

And we've got a lot of us, and the great traditions, they formed the so-called head of the state. God. Some superhuman figure. And that's what we're doing. We're so conceited, we relate ourselves to this God. We think God is in a shape and form. And they said God created man in his image and likeness. Oh, he must be in my image and likeness. body, mind, but realize that life essence, that absolute essence is the godliness. There's no thing, the presence awareness and these patterns, shapes and forms are expressions of it. So I don't use the term God, because it's just another label. It tells you that in the Bible too.

In the beginning was the Word. The Word was the beginning. Not some big bang. All things were made by him, by the Word. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. So instead of this, God being our image and likeness, the image and likeness, the pure intelligence, the knowing, is the image of that God. It is that godliness of you. Man is that. Not a person. A image or likeness, a separate entity. All things were made by him, by the Word. And isn't that so? Look around you. The room's the Word. The mirror's the Word. The things in the room are all words, labels.

Look outside, the tree, the flower, the sky, all words, which you didn't have any words. Where were they when you were the first couple of years of your life? You were living, moving, expressing. But you had no words. Could you differentiate any of it? Were you separated from anything then? Did you suffer then? Of course there could be pain and all these things we've taken on board today. But if you didn't have any words or labels or sensations or feelings, what could you say about any of it? We've become, seemingly become the Word. But they're pointing out that the Word is not the real. But can you do it?

Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? Can you do it? They call it Sat Chidananda Naaman Rupa, the Five Factors of Hinduism. Sat is existence, consciousness. Sat is existence, Chid is consciousness and Ananda is bliss. Yeah, consciousness, Ananda and bliss. All words, are you existing right now? If you, if you don't know, I don't know.

If you're not existing, jump up and tell me. Are you conscious right now? Again, are you happy to be or loving to be? Anybody want to die right now? Don't you realise that's Satyamanda, Nama Rupa? That's what they're talking about. You are already that. Did you have to seek it to realise it right now? Isn't it a fact? It'd be a fact of being right here, right now. Nama Rupa, name and form. Nama meaning the name which your parents bestowed on you and the form is this body, mind entity. So existence, consciousness, being, knowing, loving to be is the reality. The Nama Rupa, the name and form they say, is Maya.

Illusion, they call it a phenomenal manifestation. All this phenomena, all this manifestation, this phenomena, all this phenomena. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's seemingly so, just like the image in the mirror appears to be in the mirror. And you can't say it's not there because it's appeared to. Go up to the mirror and try and pull it out of the mirror. You can't say it is there. So you recognise the things that are appearing are. What's the word? The only appearances? Only Maya or illusion. Yeah, they're only illusion. It's all illusory. But we've got to realise, look a little bit further and see that the illusion itself is illusory.

What we believe in this waking dream is also illusory. Seeming to be real. And where does that leave you? Does it leave you present and aware? Right here, right now? Breathing, heart beating? Functioning, vibrating, going through? Expressing, patterning, shaping, falling? You are that one essence. Absoluteness. That is what we point out here. Ask you the question. So look out. And tell us all about it, what you've understood. You might express it or put different lights on things that are not seen. You mightn't see clearly. And the way you put them, other people might recognise them. You might not see clearly. But when you do, they will recognise it and realise it.

Because it's only through these apparent, patterned shapes and forms that it can be turned back onto itself and recognised. But if you're not doing that, you're staying in it and believing in the conceptual image, well, if you know life's not so wonderful right now, it's not going to get any better. Likely to get worse. But it can turn around. And there wouldn't be any better. I wouldn't open my mouth and say that if it hadn't happened there. And I haven't recognised it in others. Recognised in others. And see it happening here in some of you here and there. You're getting a taste of it. You're getting closer to it.

Stuff the taste, it lasts a lot. So I'll leave it up to you. Away you go. Hi everyone who is with us online. We have 20 few people so I'm saying hi to them. I've said hi to you already. So we have a couple of comments you can put your ears on now. From Amarnath. Birth and death are just thoughts, dream or imagination only. And another one. Words equal thoughts, equals separation, equals ignorance. Yep. Age. Around that age. Around, yes. He says he's quoting you. See they're quoting me. Is it right for him? I think Amarnath gets it. Yes, he knows. He knows, yes. So now we've got a nice comment from Rohan.

Hello dear Bob. The name and form are really just imagined, right? Yes. Looking into this, all the seeming problems here require some kind of mental imagination to persist. In the context of a story. Starting to glimpse the truth that there is nothing outside here and now. Any thing quote unquote outside here and now can only be imagined and not known for a fact. Beautiful, beautiful effect. That's expressing what Masaga does. Nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. And yes, anything that we can conceive or imagine as being outside our immediate sensory experience is not a fact. It's a projection of the memory. It's your imagination, not mine or anybody else.

Only what that believed in so-called entity that you call you. That's where the imagination is going on for that pattern. Yeah. And that's how we live in separate worlds. Everyone imagines different order in the world. Projects different enemies or whatever it is that they project. And what's true for one is not necessarily true for the other. Because it's not true objectively. We get you to speak to this one. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Here you go. We may all be things, but there is only one thingamabob. Sound reasoning. Propound reasoning. I just wanted to expand on what you were just saying about the separation occurring in thought.

Because sometimes lately I've been a little bit stirred by recent eventing happening lately with the politics and the lockdowns and the blah blah blah. Some people are very much pro those lockdowns. Without a thought, if we were all living without a thought just as it is, there wouldn't be any separation at all. It's beautiful. I love what you said. It's like, you know, it's not even happening in a way. When you were locked in their womb, wasn't much going on there, was it? We've got another couple of comments. Let me find them now. That's from Amarnath. Beautiful. Story without characters equals mind. And now we have Tanya.

How do you grasp the lot instead of just tastes or glimpses of recognition? Seeing the thoughts for what they are, stories or imagination, much peace here with not so much interest in the story. Seems things will always appear as... Seems things will appear as always. Yeah. Things seem to appear as always, but is the appearance real? No. Investigate that. You've taken it because it's seemingly happening constantly. We're taking it to be real, but ask a question. Who is it happening to? And is it real? Question that. See for yourself. Yeah, but this is a good one when she says, you know, taste the lot instead of the glimpses.

The lot is being tasted. The being is obvious. It's just that it is being obscured by the dramas happening in the imagination. So the attention is hijacked by the imagination, imagined self and imagined dramas. And the being just doesn't really get its due attention. So it doesn't get as delicious as it possibly can when that attention rests back in its source. And we have a comment from British Julia. Thank you. Love that American Julia. We all love that American Julia. Energy is experience or me story can feel so dense at times. Well. And Byron, isn't the lot visible in the pieces? Beautiful. Absolutely. There is nowhere where you can't find it if you really have the eyes to see and the recognition.

Absolutely. Every single, every stone, every insect, every form is a reflection of that emptiness. It is the vibration of that emptiness. Thank you, Byron. That's spot on. It just occurred to me that it's easier to catch the whole of a jigsaw puzzle when it's altogether more difficult when it's in pieces. That's a nice insight. It's easier to catch the whole of the jigsaw puzzle when it is in pieces. Actually, yeah. It's together. But very difficult when it's in pieces. Aha. Okay. It's easier when it is all together than it is in pieces. But you can actually glimpse the whole. You usually have every piece has a little bit of a glimpse.

And you have the box of the jigsaw puzzle with a little bit of a hint. Bob is a box. Bob is out of the box. But then again, if you see the puzzle there, the interest in it might make you look for the pieces to put it together again. And you'll eventually get the whole picture. Yeah, when you get the taste. When you get the glimpse. And that's the interest comes in to actually uncover the whole. You see, your spill today was your spill today was a magnificent it was good to be home again. And to some of those pointings were really hitting home, Bob.

Thank you. What did you hear? No, I just I wish I had. No, I'd just like to second Richard's comments that you addressed today, Bob, was was special. It was profound. It was eloquent. It was easy to understand as well, which is profound as in itself. So, yeah. Thank you so much. Resonance wasn't there. It wouldn't be worth anything at all. Natural essence that you are resonates with it. It's yours. Take it. Yeah, we have couple. I'm going to say something to that, Bob. Now we have Amarnath. Non-dual drum. It's duality. Outside world, inside thoughts. And Primali says, I am imagining the energy coming through pages of your book when I'm reading it.

Why not? Whatever works. Beautiful. And British Julia, I third it. Bob, the pointings are just so clear. And Tanya, thank you. Most definitely the being is here and is whole. Indeed, the imagination seems to be obscuring. Will imagination will investigate who the story is happening to? What I just have to unfold more text. Okay. What I am can't be just this body. And it's not a thought. Resting as source reveals a lot. Yeah. Beautiful. And Amarnath is replying to Primali. Image in, but it is never in. And and the energy, you don't even have to imagine it, Primali, because everything is the energy. As a potential or as realized energy.

So it is never not here. Even before you were born, the potentiality was there. So that life, that essence is always there. Whether it is materialized or it's appearing or it's not, it's always there. You want to say something, Dean? Please. Yeah, the energy is always there and you know, it's just a thought. And the problem is, well, I think the problem is hanging on to the thought or make, you know, the thoughts might become a story, but all stories come and go and you know, it's just polishing up that story and preserving it. It seems to make it about a person or about the self.

And that starts creating a set of vibrations. But it's just a letting go of it. There's no self there. It's, I think it's something the saga of Artha says. I think of as you are the all-pervading, all-transcending reality. Think, feel and act in accordance with the whole, you know. It is the whole beingness. It's not about any imagined individual that's, you know, having a good time or a bad time or whatever. So it's the thinker, the very idea of a thinker is another thought, you know. That's it. Beautiful summary. Absolutely. I'm just kind of expanding on thoughts. There was this idea I had once. I got what I call love-greed.

Because I had this this well, I started to understand this idea that, you know, if you could take one thing you adore and you love and multiply that times everything. What if you could love everything as much as you love that one thing? Imagine the ecstasy, the bliss, the right? Imagine. But then, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, it's imagination. I get it, I get it. But what I also was just thinking today is that sometimes just the bliss of no imagination. Okay. Of no imagination. Of just, now what if I could just stay in this no imagination. Imagine. No imagining. That doesn't make sense, but but I just still, I still like the imagination of no imagination times everything.

That didn't make sense, did it? Yeah. There's nothing inherently wrong in this wonderful capacity that humans have to envision things, to plan things, to imagine things. It's just unconditional belief in the imagination to be reality that creates suffering. If you are an artist and you imagine, or you're kind of hearing the beautiful composition of music or art, that's fabulous. Or if you just daydreaming and you're imagining being in love with absolutely everything and you're blissing out, what's wrong with that? But if you start taking it to be reality, any of it, and you just start bumping to the walls, that's where the suffering comes about.

Using the thinking for whatever functioning is a fantastic capacity for which we should, if anything, just experience the amazement and gratitude. I think the only thing that would, I mean, what had occurred to me previously is the only thing that would stop me from loving anything as much as I love anything else is a belief in thought. So, you know, without imagination, I mean, when I'm really loving something, I'm adoring something, there isn't a lot of imagining happening. I'm just loving it, aren't I? You know? So, if I'm not adoring something, perhaps there's some imagining happening, you know what I mean? But even when you start dividing between loving and not loving, adoring and not adoring, see how this one is also subtly a judgement, because everything is just as it is.

It's neither beautiful nor ugly, neither lovable nor unlovable, it's just as it is. But the way Nisargadatta approaches the subject of love, love is movement. Energy and movement is love. Whether it is a movement for selfishness, movement of self-protection, movement of wanting more, it is always some form of love. But if you think you are the body of course that love is misguided to being egocentric, self-obsessed and harmful individual. But that's just how that energy of movement is translated into that selfishness. But when the movement is left alone, without any labels, I am here and not there, or I am this and not that, then that movement is like water finding its own level, always trying to effortlessly and most ergonomically just find its flow, its level.

And it's expressing joyously because that's, you know, there could have been nothing. And we have that magnificent world full of details and everywhere you focus attention more reveals itself. You look into this conspiracy or that science, more reveals, more is being created as you look. That's how prolific it is. If I stop looking and just be. Yeah, that's okay. Looking happens. It's not something that you can start or stop. If you stop looking and just be. Just be. And whatever is a component or expression of that being, looking, seeing, hearing, tasting, thinking, that's the way it expresses. Just be, you know, like the being, the awareness or consciousness or potential is even when you switch off the light, the electricity is as a potential but it doesn't have an expression.

When you switch on the light, then you have the light and then you have the warmth and then you have the expression. So being, with whatever way the being takes shapes, if the being takes shapes as you finding yourself singing or dancing or judging, whatever it is, that's the component of being. Leave it as it is and just marvel at the brilliance of the way being expresses itself. That's the effortless, that's the existence that is totally natural, that's the natural state like that cat you're patting right now. See, she is being, she is probably experiencing a lot of things and not judging or having a story about any of it.

Just the effortless, easy flow of existence and yeah, we can exist in the same way and we do actually. If the overlay of narrative that creates pain is also witnessed in a personal manner, that... Like everything you're saying is like just my total current experience and it's just like, just loving to be. It's like the spiel was magnificent. But then I realised, and I loved the spiel today, it was just brilliant Bob, but I loved everything. Like I love you, I love the space in front of the eyeballs. Like it's all, it's just a loving to be for no reason. There's no narrative, there's no story, there's just like this absolute bliss of beingness itself.

With nothing on top. And everything as it happens in whatever way. Shape or form. There's no such, there's no narrative, how can it be ugly or a dead, it's not even possible. It's inconceivable. It's, the mind can make something up and then you just watch this, another vibration of energy that's, you love that too. How could you not? Because it's just, the beingness is still there. Presence. And there's an awareness of it and it's like such like gratitude to everything and every, and just love and gratitude. That's all. That's it. And as Dean was saying, everything is, the Sāgaranda says when you are that living love, then people will come to your door.

You are that only love. And he said you are that living love when you're loving everything, not separating anything. You must be that. I just hope these people who will come to your door today will come a little bit late so you can have lunch with us. As long as they pay. As long as they pay, yeah. He's got people coming to Airbnb today and he doesn't know he's going to make it. Yeah, we have a couple of other comments here from people and that will be a question from Julia. Leave us it is. Fearless isness being says Byron. And Amarnath. Thank you Julia. Imagination of no imagination.

Caught up. That's Amarnath. Happiness equals here and now equals I. Know me or we in that just isness. JB. It is good to see the gang all together again. Great spiel as always. Bob. It is the highlight of my week every week hearing you and Kat and all the input from everyone else. Bless you all. Beautiful. Thank you JB. And Amarnath replying to JB with a lot of beautiful hearts and smiley faces. There is no difference between whether we are in virtual or physical meeting unless we imagine. Ever grateful to Bob and Kat. And Byron. I must say Kat is doing a good job with the technical and the storytelling but who is doing the cooking?

Thank you Byron. Cooking's today on Julia. She's inviting everyone for the Halloween lunch. I even put on black and the black hats to honor Julia and American tradition. Even though here they say that Halloween is actually celebrating hell and that's nothing to celebrate. She is celebrating hell. It's creativity. Yeah, there's nothing to say. Really. We're just babbling about Halloween. You know you can take the girl out of America but you can't take America out of the girl. I've always thought of Halloween as my like it's bigger, it's as big as Christmas in the United States. Really. Like they've got Halloween stores everywhere. But the whole month of October and September you can go and like prepare because it's like it's decorated like Christmas and to me it's like it's just fun.

I didn't come dressed today because I thought about it. I was going to but I was running late. You have a skeleton on your lap. I've got a skeleton. No, no, no, no, no. I was going to come as a bunny today. Okay. Or a scuba diver half eaten by a fish. You may see that later on. But anybody, everybody here is welcome to come by. I'm going to cater with Sophia's. Yes, and thank you for that. Wonderful. Unfortunately because of the politics we cannot go to the restaurant unless everyone is double jobbed and we're not going to be asking any questions about any medical record of anyone because we don't think this is our business.

But yeah, we had lunch here last week. We have lunch with Julia this week. We may have lunch here again next week. So this as it is we kind of navigate around the situation as well as we can. And yes, Byron, I do the cooking. That's why Bob is six years younger after six years of being with me than he was before. I make sure the cooking is healthy. Although Dean is sometimes singing a little bit, bringing some garlic sausage for Bob. He loves it. Yes. And Tanya says beautiful. No right or wrong, ugly, good or bad. Loving the love being expressed. Thank you, Tanya.

And Rohan, when we say I want to be free of pain, it is not actually true a lot of the time. That's what I've observed here. In a perverse way, we enjoy the experience of pain. We know that we dip into the narrative and run with it. There will be pain. However, we still do it. It is another way for separate self to continue. That is a beautiful insight. And I tell you, Rohan, I'm going to show you. Everyone's nodding their heads. Yes. Yeah, the noddings. Yes, we do actually seem to have the perverse pleasure of experiencing pain. Pain and sadness and all of it.

Because without it, we wouldn't have known joy. I did that yesterday. You did that yesterday. Joe did that yesterday. And yes, recognizing that pattern, recognizing that sometimes we do have that how you call it? That when the senses are, I forgot the word. Doesn't matter. Okay. Anyway, it's a good recognition to have and to remember. Because... Pleasure come and go. Opposite ends of the so-called stick. Yes, say it again. Pain and pleasure come and go. They're the opposite ends of the so-called stick. That's right. I'll do that too. Because I'll say, I loved it yesterday when I got really angry. And I exploded. But my husband forgot to pat me and go, did you enjoy that explosion?

Bastard! There you go. So who's the chooser of the pain and pleasure? Yes. Good question. Who's the chooser of the pain and pleasure? I put that out there. You know the truth. Anyone? Choices are made. Choices are made. There's no personal chooser. Yes. Say it again, Bob. Choices are made. But there's no choice maker. It's like thoughts come up. And when we say that nobody makes the choice or decision, we can equally say that the whole world including every smallest particle of dust is contributing to that decision to be made. Because everything and nothing, they are all just, you know, like you have zero or zero with the twists in maths.

And they're the same. Just all absolute. They're absolute, yeah. And I think we have another one. Amarnath says to Rohan, beautiful Rohan, I equals pain, no difference. Happy Halloween from Dan Zen. Thank you. And Rohan, I have noticed this too, says British Julia. Yes. Seems like that's good to be bluntly honest with one's own self. We are the totality all of the time. There is not that we are in one end or in the other. We are always underlying totality. The attention may be in one end or the other and may be in the other. It's just full itself to be part or fragment. But the truth is never far away.

Let's see if I missed any. Oh, there is one more comment. Resting. The whole universe is decision or choice maker. That was that was Amarnath quoting me. Resting in surrender, the absolute comes into view, says Byron. Beautiful. Yes. Resting in surrender, the absolute comes into view. Primali says great wisdom on decision making. Suffer or be happy. Yeah. It's up to the whole universe and you are that whole universe. So whatever decision is being made by the universe just go along because there is no point resisting it. Who is resisting? Because, yes. No one there. It's just a thought. Like Cliff was saying, the thinker is a thought.

So just don't take it seriously. Don't think you are the thought. You are not the thinker. Thinker is a thought. This is just an idea. You are not an idea. You are the consciousness in which that idea comes and goes. It's like a dream. Go on. It's like a dream. Like the patterns of thoughts come and go and they may be pleasant they may be painful but they all pass and move. It's like we sometimes seize a dream and we keep telling everybody about that dream and put a lot of importance on a particular dream. It's just a dream. Like if I was telling you a dream I dreamt about last night all day, you would get a bit sick of it, wouldn't you?

When are you going to get over that one? But sometimes we carry that dream around and polish it up. Well it's all been said before but I see it kind of like the I that we believe ourselves to be is our conditioning. We've been taught that. And it's very strong. Everybody believes us to be an I. And then that I is extended to as Bob was saying, the image of God and then also that we get incarnated as a subtle I. So the idea of an I and a separate person is very pervasive in our society because that's what everyone believes in. Even subtly in the spiritual realms it's there.

It's actually operating there because then we're taught to meditate to become free of the I. So the whole, even spiritual conditioning is just filled with the notion of an I. And then to come to Bob where he just sort of breaks that down so clearly is very unusual. There are a few other people that do that but it's very rare to actually see that the I is non-existent in such a very clear, straightforward way. And because the other is so pervasive it can be tricky. Like sitting here and listening and getting the feedback you get the real resonance of that. But, you know, and I don't want to go into it but it can be tricky.

But then I see that that's a play of the mind too, to make it complicated. You know, to make it into something complex and then when the mind goes into its sort of role you know, it kind of gets this momentum when you start into the dream or the story, it becomes like a momentum. And suddenly you're into some kind of emotional state. You know? So, um, and yet, you know, when you hear it here, there's a simplicity to it that is just so resonant. When the mind comes in, it can make it into something very complicated. You know, so, um, I don't know, I'm just leaving it there.

That's a hint in itself. So, like, as soon as it's complex you automatically, there's a taste, there's a smell, you know, hang on, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not buying into this. The complexity itself becomes like a its own, um, like a messenger or like a like a download of something. It's like, oh, complex, oh, and, and, you know, and it just, um, yeah. But, like, to what you're saying, yeah, there's just, there's like simply, um, there's no doer. Like, there's no one doing. There's no, so there can't be an I, there can't be an individual raising his hand, making a choice to do so.

So the whole thing falls apart, that complexity can just really just dissolve. It's simplicity, yes. It's so simple. It's beyond simplicity. Beyond, and that's, and we're so, we've been taught to be complex, more and more complex because of the mind. But I think that is the, the essence is, well, who, who is, who is the person who is having all this. But the idea of the person is, as you say, Catherine, it gets reinforced all the time because it's how the other, another entity called our society or our culture insists on this idea of individual responsibility and things like that. So it gets, it gets complex.

It's all mind created and becomes rule based then. But, yeah, it's good to see through it too, you know. Yeah. Absolutely good to see through it. Actually, what I think a little bit of what you're talking about, yesterday I was hosting a, um, a chat with people and I usually read a book and I was reading, I guess, a self-help book and it got really uncomfortable and I only recognised it today. I couldn't recognise why it was uncomfortable because it was labelling. It was labelling, um, it was talking about toxic people and I was sharing my own experience with that, with me being toxic and other people and the labels were coming in and I'm starting to think, who cares?

Who gives a shit? Can I throw this away? Can I throw the book out of the car? But I, I do, I couldn't worry about it. I didn't realise what the pain was and I think, you know, it's only struck now. It's the labelling of everything. It was really painful. I think there's one important point and I don't know how this is going to come out but, like, um, you know, you can't just whitewash things with non-duality either, you know, because that's sort of, you know, that can be a bit of a trap where you just sort of think well, I am that and then you kind of live in this sort of repressed sort of push everything under the carpet idea, which is what not, which isn't what Bob's saying, you know, you let everything be there.

If you're with it totally, you know, it moves back, you know, it just dissolves again. It's not about having an image of being happy all the time or everything being, you know, so-called positive because that's just the mind labelling the idea as positive, you know, to be with life as it is, as things are, allows things to move on and be as they are. You get that point? No right or wrong. No right or wrong. In some situation you may find yourself in the therapy room. In another situation you may find yourself pausing the thought and it is always life doing it, it's never you doing it.

So it's not the right or wrong thing that you can do or you should do or you shouldn't do. I agree with what you're saying, you can't whitewash it. No. Well, you may find yourself doing it but it will be life too. Who's the toxic person? Oh, of course. Everyone is a totality. It takes one to know one. We have potential for absolutely everything. But then I realised too that when you're judging these people, when you're putting the labelling that they're toxic or that's disrespectful, that person's doing something that's disrespectful, there was a lot of judgement in it, if you know what I mean. It's okay to say that, okay, yes, that person's being disrespectful, it's nice to be aware of it, but not have to, you know, really If it comes up, that's what comes up.

If it doesn't, it's okay too. Yeah, that's true. It took me back though, that saying that once you know something, you can never go back. You know, once you know something, you can't go back into being that kind of person. So for me, I guess reading it was just sort of a wake up, was just like, I'm not there anymore. You know, for me anyway. For me, that's all. You're past that. That's all. Yeah, what do you think for that? All those self-help books, you know, self-help books tend to reinforce the ego there that's going to help itself. Well put. Well put. I think I've only just picked that up this morning after feeling very uncomfortable yesterday.

Very uncomfortable. And I couldn't explain it to the other people because they're not in that realm, so I had to just sort of shut it down. And then feel horrible for the rest of the day. Because I couldn't work it out, you know, what was wrong. Oh no, I'm going to hate everybody. You're all toxic. Get away from me, you know. And I'm toxic and I'm no good. That's insane. You know, just crazy. But it's led you to this point though, hasn't it? Oh yes, which, true, true, true. And it's pain. You've got to go through pain to get to it. To understand it. You never learn it through easy.

It's like the truth. It comes to that starting off with the truth will set you free. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Okay, did each of you want to say something? This is not one of the secrets of the universe. But, um, we talk a lot about the the impossible to have a one-ended stick. But, or you could say a one-ended pointer. But actually a non-dual pointing is one-ended. Yeah, we don't focus on the ends. We just take the stick as the one, as the whole. Yeah, good point. And thank you everyone. That was wonderful. The contribution, the conversation, the vital points about the dreaming and the daydreaming and happening.

That's just magnificent. And we have a couple of other comments from people. We have 25 people with us. Sometimes a bit more. And Rohan says, Kat, yes, the attention was what I was referring to. The attention seemingly fixates into the negative narratives. Narratives. Whereas there is knowing that unfixation is the way out. Beautiful. Yes. And Tanya says, thought can't understand how the whole universe is included in choices or decisions appearing. What a wonderful mystery. Could you say more about that? Yes, everything is interrelated and interdependent because there is no separation. That's why. That's why everything is included in every action, in every move, in every decision because there is only one.

Go on. I like the decision thing because sometimes you think oh, it's a hard decision. I won't make that decision now. And then suddenly you find the decision's been made anyway. So who's the decider, you know? And how freeing is that? We have couple of more comments. Amarnath says, grateful to Rohan. He know in and out. So also the way. And I'll put it up here. And we have British Julia. So many spiritual people suffering against what is. I was one. I'm thankful to this teaching, this recognizing and to Bob and Kat and you all. Yes, I loved what you said, Catherine, about the whole spiritual world also advising us to get rid of the ego.

Bob has this nice saying from Bunky when you quote Bunky, like they say you gotta get rid of the ego, push it under the carpet. Just get rid of it. It is like washing away blood with blood. If you manage to kill the ego, who is the one who killed it? It's the ego. And ego killed the ego and ego remains. But what Bob is showing up, ego is a thought. It is an idea. It doesn't have any power. The ego that is killing and the ego that is killed, the identification, the costume, the mask is only conceptual. You stop thinking and it disappears. And who you are stays there.

The I am, the sense of existence is there. Whether the conceptual image of imagination or the imagined I or the imagined ego lingers in the imagination or it doesn't. When you pause the thought, it doesn't. But you don't disappear. That's how beautifully simple and elegant it is. Don't have to meditate and do any penance or any practices to recognize the obviousness. Just pause the thought for one second. Just gap between the thoughts. And now we have Amarnath. Oh no, we have a couple more. Tania, what about children appearing to be disrespectful to parents? That is just judgment and story also, I guess. I think Tania, you should watch that beautiful docos about the little cubs over tigers and lions.

How they pulling the parents over the ears because they need to get strong. You know, sometimes children need to compete or need to provoke. Because they kind of assert their own parents. There is a lot of help also around parenting. How to respectfully get that disrespect out of the way. I know this is a big topic. But nature will give you a cues because nothing is out of nature. And I'm sure your daughter loves you dearly. Just focus back on love. And then I'll have to say neither of us, neither Bob nor I have our own children. I had siblings many, many years younger. I was bringing them up and Bob had stepchildren.

It didn't go very well. So I think we are the wrong one to ask for advice. And O'Toole says everything is just appearances in the awareness only. Beautiful. Absolutely. And now Amarnath, who thinks disrespectful? That's that was to Tanya. According to them, it is not. Our expectation is the disrespect. Yeah, perhaps that's a good answer. Yeah, maybe that's your judgment. That certain behavior is a disrespect. Maybe that is just what the little lion cubs are doing. And British Julia says not everyone will be called to the truth. For those people, improvement of the dream is valid. Yes, and that's why the possibility is there. Because that generousness of the universe, the improvement of the dream or the improvement of the skills or more pleasure or more wealth or whatever, this is all part of the dance.

Nothing out of place is perfect. And Amarnath, thank you and love you all. Thank you for this beautiful meeting. Much gratitude for this. Love you all. That's from Tanya. And British Julia, thanks and love. Good way to start Sunday. Happy Halloween. And so truth, Amarnath. Thank you. So we have people from online saying thank you and goodbye to us. The question is, are we moving on or anyone would like to share or add anything? Or we just answer goodbye to everyone? Yep. Goodbye. It went quick everyone says. So ready for some party? Happy Halloween. I've got my house decked out. I've got a box full of costumes actually if you really want to borrow one.

If you don't, you can just put some makeup on. Or you could just pretend to be a human or something like that. That's a good Halloween. We could pretend to be people. Yes. We could put our masks on. I'll give you my address. Everybody here is welcome to come. I'd love for you all to come. Thank you.