Sailor Bob: EXTRA ZOOM FOR AMERICANS and everyone

So everyone, I'll let Bob do the talking. Thank you, Doug. I guess you know what it's all about, or supposed to be about, don't you? What they call non-duality, or invited, or whatever. Whatever. Whatever label you put on it, it's just a label. Non-duality means not two. It means one without a second. It means one without the other. There's only that in other words. That is the reality. That is all there is. And that's the great mantra they talk about. I am that. And so that they're talking about is not the person. It's not the body-mind. It is the one essence. It's patterned, shaping, forming, experiencing, and expressing as everything.

And you can't be anything other than that when you look into it. And you realize that's the chair you're sitting in. That's the room. That's the tree. That's the flower. Everything is that which we put words on, or labels, or names. And they say in non-duality. It's the same. It's that Chit Nanda, Nama Rupa. It's that as existence. Chit is consciousness. Nanda is loving to be. And the Nama Rupa, the name and form, is Maya. Illusion. It's only seemingly so. When we put the names onto that and seemingly separate it, we lose sight of its actuality. It's only the one. You are already. That. I.

And that. Everything is that. Before the words. How many words we have borne. You realize you weren't born with any words. And yet, you got along all right for the first couple of years of your life without the words. You're a young child. So, I mean by that, if we learn, as we pick up words, words can be useful. And they can also be self-destructive. That's when we put those labels on words. words or names and forms on these patterns and believe in the name and form, they're sort of the reality. It's all that one essence. It's breathing in, hurting your heart, growing your hair and fingernails, digesting your food, replacing cells in your body, rolling the earth around the sun, causing the tides to come out, in and out, the seasons to come and go, forming the satellites, the stars, all the pattern shapes you formed in this manifestation.

It's the one, what I call, one of the better term, intelligence energy. It's functioning in pattern shaping, expression as all of that. And it's called God in a lot of the great traditions in all of Russia. God. Or a higher power or a greater power. But I think that word confuses a lot of people because they all come from different traditions. And each tradition has got a different name. This thing they call God. Can you hear me all right? Yeah. If anybody's got their mic on, can you mute your mics? Sorry. As long as you can hear me. Well, you might not want to hear me.

You can tell me what. Please, yourselves. Yeah. So everything is that. And that's our problem. We've taken on the idea and belief that we are this separate entity. We are this individual. We are this person. But are you the person? What we say here is the false cannot stand up to investigate. And we look into some of these erroneous beliefs we've taken on and investigate. They'll fall apart under the investigation. Are you the body, for instance? Can you say my body? Can't you say my house, my car, my coat, my hat? And you know you're not the house, the car, the coat, maybe you're not the body either when you investigate.

The same with my mind. I've got this body-mind idea, and you believe it is me or my. What is me or my? Me, is that sense of presence. In other words, I am. I am. for me is I. I am this me. I is another word for me. It's the sense of presence, the knowing that you are, the pure intelligence energy is the knowing that you are. It's patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as all this manifestation. It's that sense of presence which translates into the thought I am. Now when you look at all those words and you see that every the first couple of years of your life you lived without words and you know the why, but to realise that every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to just speak has been learned, been picked up along the way.

You weren't born with it. This is not your natural state. Your natural state is the pure intelligence energy that's living breathing beating on the sense of presence translates as the primary thought i am where does that i am come from well they say it comes from the primary sound all broken down sounds like i am related to this sense of privilege our parents give you the name or the label instead of saying because it's the one reality that's expressionist everything it's the absolute what is it they call it the great perfection what can you add the absolute nothing what can you take away from it nothing or the great perfection what's what did you add to the perfect what can you take away from it i'll give it to you in one sentence is non-conceptual awareness it is this awareness the knowingness that you are right now it is it but we put the label on i or me and that's where the sense of separation comes in and that sense of separation has been believed in added to and believed and reinforced day in day out until it's seemingly solid and substantial i see what that separation does it causes all the problems we've got i believe that something's separate from you i feel isolated and apart from it you're bob you look like melted ice cream what was it i didn't hear that was it i think you can ignore that bob i think that was um um you know i can't remember the name they use you know that just someone who's come in to disturb the meeting julia yeah julia are you the host if you're if you're the host and that that person disturbs again could you kick them out julia you're muted sorry i don't know who that was but i'll be looking sorry bob yeah where was laughter that sense of presence and realize that sense of presence is always fresh and new we take it and put the labels on past and future but is there a past if you don't think about it but that's another thing we need to look and do is a concept of time when you look into that investigation you realize there's no such thing as time time is a mental concept another thought another label is there a past if you don't think about hey terry you'll never be a real woman there's no passing if you don't think about it because past is just a thought can you live in the past you can't so the past is not the actual it's only a conceptual image we have about it same with the future can you live a moment in the future you can't you can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do in the next moment but you can't actually live it so the living the actuality is going on right now and what's living isn't it life and isn't that life expressing right now in the breathing the heart beating you know that's what you actually are you're not the body you're not the mind you're not the pattern through which you express you are the life itself that's what christ told you years ago i am the life i am the way i am the truth i am the life people thought he was an expression at himself but he wasn't he was talking about that sense of presence which is inner and take the life out of that body and what have you got you have a cause now that's course before it writes down but eyes it's got ears and heart lungs throat voice box kidneys all the organs but what good are they without that life essence i think i use a lot good expressions is like the computer you've got a computer with all the wonderful information in it but what good is it if the power's not turned on it's got no way to go to talk so and that's that pattern you call you there's no one to talk about the life so you must be the life also it's the same it's christ or everything else is all the life and this i gotta tell you the same thing when he says that his own life there's nobody he lives alive so the life that is expression through that pattern you call you me and everything else is the one life the non-dual the absolute life all expression but in what i call i don't use the term god i use the term intelligence and that's just a label too that's not it intelligence is knowing i don't know anyone who's not knowing right now you say i'm knowing an energy knowing is something that's going on right now it's an activity it's a movement any activity is energy so that's why i use the term intelligence energy the activity of knowing and there's nobody there right now who is not knowing and you can and you know that you can't you might say i don't know enables you to say that could you say it without the knowingness so you are the life itself that's the sign of separation what have we done we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit and taking ourselves into a conceptual image a believed in pattern shape and form an image that we take to be real but it's not real at all it is i call it being a phenomenal manifestation a manifestation made up a phenomenon what's the definition of a phenomenon definition of phenomena is that which appears to be so so many seamlessly that they say that is forming an appearance it's not historically it is the essence of the labels that pattern shape can form to appear one essence pattern form of appearing as everything and you can only be that what happens what appears on the basic screen of space silence and space stillness no things and realize that all the appearances all the pattern shapes and forms including you me and everything else are appearances only seemingly but in shaping forms like it's like on the ocean that's the still ocean and the movement appears on vibration you form waves ripples phones and all the other things on this stillness and silence are in the stillness and silence which has got no shape or no form find a sentence of space again see if he's got any circumference the silence there and suddenly comes into it and sound so the basic screen is always clear and empty and then it's pattern shapes and forms appearance like in the ocean they call it ever changing a little bit it's constantly changing with the pattern social but never changing and still always only and never will be the ocean other analogies were used point out the illustrious manifestation how it appears to be so you go down to the ocean and if i said get my a bucket of blue water out of the sea what would you say to me you say don't be an idiot because you know you can't get any blue water out of the ocean because it's not blue to turn away from it it looks to be blue it appears to be the same with the blue sky sky is space where's the bluest in the room you see outside the room not until you're looking at the distance swimming distance and where it seems the canopy of the sky there's blue sky so the same is this body mind idea is body will investigate because that's the thing we point out that the false cannot stand up to the investigation and when you look at it it's true none of these facts or beliefs will take them on board when you look at them they'll fall apart by the body what's the body made up of when you look into it the body's made up of elements air earth fire water space these elements are forming out there for vibration take the air out of your body see how long it lasts goodbye you wouldn't be a body without the air take the water your body's 60 percent water take the fire the body temperature you can hypothermia get off the earth if you can why would you live off the earth get out of space so when you investigate you see you're not those elements and all those elements can be broken down even further to subatomic particles into pure no things emptiness and all this manifestation is made up of things and we say nothing with the wrong slander nothing we think it's zero zero i mean but it's no thing it's all there here there anywhere but it's not anything solid but it's not anything solid but it's all there here there anywhere but it's not anything solid or substantial it's all appearing to be so just like a dream you go to sleep at night and the dream where does that dream occur these take place in the body the body's a vehicle from which holds the dream but what is the dream seems to be real you can seem to be in it yourself just flatten you believe you're all right now in the limit in the dream you can see the seeming dreambodies appearing in the dream because it's just still uh that that's that's ending body in the dream is taking a active part in the dream doing all sorts of things and yet it's in this body which we think is real it's the vehicle which the dream expression and they can be in that dream not only the body but it can be mountains hills all sorts of things that are in this dream, trees, flowers, mountains, and cars and strings and everything else.

You see that dream body taking part, an active part in that dream. When you wake up, what happens to it? It all disappears. And you realise that body that was taking place, it never moved off the bed, though it was seemingly taking part in the dream, no words have come out of its mouth, though there were all sorts of thoughts and feelings. And you wake up and what you don't realise, you wake up to this dream. This is a waking dream. The only difference between the sleep dream at night and the waking dream, this dream is, the dream at night when you wake up, it disappears.

It may fade in memories of it, but it's disappeared, it's gone. And the hills and the rivers and the places it took place in, they've all disappeared also. But you wake up to this dream, and this dream, the only difference between the two is this dream seemingly has a continuity. When you wake up each morning, it suddenly wakes up where it left off the night before. It continues on. And so does the river. And so does the river. And so does the river. And so does the river. And so does the river. And the now, and the river, and the hills, and all the things it took part in, they're still there.

They seem they're still there. So that's what we need to understand, and have a look at. That you're not the person. Where does the word person come from? You can't say you were born. Why can't you remember your actual worth? Because you had no words. How could you say I was born? How could you say anything about it? You had to be able to Graceland know that. That's why that work. And you didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half, yet you lived for those first couple of years without the word. You've taken the word to the real. And we learn this word, I am.

Our parents teach us the words, the buzzing around us, and we pick up the words from what they're saying to us. We have that capacity of reasoning. That capacity of reasoning is a very useful capacity. It's more developed than other animals, birds and insects. They have a capacity of reasoning to a certain extent, not to the extent that these human patterns do, and that's a different degree. A bird, for instance, has a capacity of eyesight. It's more developed than what our survivors have, much better. But there's a capacity of flying. We can't do that naturally. But through the capacity of reasoning, they can build eye-gazing.

Glasses, binoculars, telescopes that enable us to see better. And planes, helicopters, balloons, kites and things like that that enable us to fly. So the capacity of reasoning can be very useful. A dog has a sense of smell. It's much more developed now. Moths and butterflies and that form cocoons and change water into beautiful colors. And we can change the colour of that. We can change the colour of our food. and things like that, all those different things. Nature has ways of that and expressing. They all don't have the same capacity of reagent that we have, much more developed. There are lots of other capacities that are not developed in this time.

Animals can do a lot better, and birds and insects. So this capacity of reagent can be very useful, but it's also self-destructive. That's where the dualism comes in. We've taken on the idea that we are separate. We can't do much with I or me, it's a word we've learned, till we know to put the other words on. I am Bob, I'm an Australian, I'm a good fella, I'm a human being, I'm this, that, and the other. All these concepts are words of thought, and the energy of belief goes into them. And they're taken to be real. We've gotta realize that belief is not the action.

We believe so many things, and they're believed to be real, and taken to be real, until they're investigated. You already knew that that thing comes in, but thoughts cannot stand up to investigation. Look in your dictionary and look up the term belief, and the definition of belief is, is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. And you haven't reasoned it out, you haven't worked it out, except of an alleged fact, without positive knowledge of the truth. And you put your belief to that test. If they are false and want the truth, they'll fall apart. As I say, the false cannot stand up to it.

There's many analogies that I use to point that out. Go down to the ocean, I'll say, give me a bucket of blue water out of the sea, and say, don't do ridiculous, because you know the water's not blue. It appears to be blue. The water in a mirage, a piece of water in a mirage. The rainbow in the sky seem to be colors in the sky. There are no colors in the sky as such. The colors are the sun shining through the mist, and it reflects back on the seeming massive blueness of the sky, or it can be any of the distance, and forms the colors.

But they're not there. Lots of things like that. So when you, are you the spotting mind? When you investigate that, am I this mind? You're showing me a thing called mind. You're not this mind, you're saying my mind. What is mine? I can't show you anything that you call mine, because there's no such thing. Mind, when just broken down, what is? It's thought. What is thought? Word, what's word? Word, sound. What's sound? A vibration. What's a vibration? A movement of energy. So the body can be broken down into that, the mind can be broken down into that. So that's all there is. It's pure intelligence energy, which the wondrous play at Patten-Shakesmith forms into all this manifestation, make it seem, we've got the term, God on it, and make it seem something greater, than what we are.

If it patterns, shapes and forms, and experiences and expresses as everything, who is it? Or what is it? That it can be greater than, or less of than, because it's all, ever only that. One essence is doing the lot. The same, no separate entity at all. And the very idea of separation is brought about, with insecurity and vulnerability. And that's where we become this person, this individual, this separate entity. That's fearful. It's unhappy. It's depressed. It's fearful. It's anxious. All of the time we take on the belief we're separate. And that sense of separation didn't come upon us until we learned words. And it's carried on from there.

How does it function? Well, something comes up, and I say, well, I'm not, you know, I like it. How do you know? Well, I've experienced this before, and it's good. Whatever it is, it's good. And we don't want the good things to go, not realizing that being in thoughts and feelings and all the vibration, there's always vibrating dualistically in the opposites. Like Shakespeare told you, for a 500 years ago, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes us. And this tells you the same thing. And he says, nothing can trouble you excepting your own imagination. Now, what have we done? We've taken on this conceptual image, this thought up image.

I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, I did this, I did that, all through the words written there. And that's what's troubling us, is imagined. Break that word imagination down, imaging to imagination, down to imagination. We're imaging, imagine. And realize that's all we're doing, we're imaging in, in our minds, all these pattern, shapes and forms. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. So we put the label on, this is good, that's bad, this is pleasant, this is painful. Without those images, look in a mirror, what do you got in the mirror? Reflecting surface there, reflecting surface, and what's the reflect? Image. Images. You have an image of your face in the mirror, and it looks real.

Go up and try and grab it out of the mirror. Go and grab an image out of the mirror, you can't. You can't say it's not there, because it appears to be there. And when you go to try and grab it, you can't say it is there. So it neither is, nor it isn't. It's appearing to be so, and that's all this manifestation is. And that's all this manifestation is. And that's all this manifestation is. And that's wondrous, right? But the way that pattern, shapes and forms implies that it is suffused with amazing intelligence, or knowingness. And the way it vibrates in all the different ways, the wondrous ways that pattern, shapes and forms, again, implies the amazing ways it can express the birds, the insects, the life, the stars, the planets, everything.

It's the thing that's so wonderful. It's suffused with this amazing intelligence, energy. And everything is that. And everything is that. And you are that, also. I am that. That is all there is. Now we've taken on the idea we're separate. And something comes up, I like it, because we've taken on the belief that I am the separate of me, because we've taken on the belief that I am the separate of me, and the things we like that are different, that will be the fine, and the things we like that do what's best, is what's all we want. very pleasant, very happy. We don't want them to go.

Our relatives, our friends, our loved ones, we don't want them to go. We don't want them to change. Not realising being a vibration. It always vibrates realistically in the pairs of opposites because there couldn't be one without the other. Without the opposite there could be day without night. There could be silence without sound, winter without summer. There couldn't be. So everything is that. We don't want it to go. Not realising that it's transient. It's changed. Everything is changing. That body that you're sitting in right now is changing. It's not the same body you had a moment ago, or last week, or last year. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now and all those cells are lost.

They're dying. They've lost their life and being replaced. That's the amazing intelligence and security. We don't want it to go. So what do we do? Trying to keep it there. We resist it. We're fighting it. Resistance is conflict. Conflict is fighting it. We're struggling to keep it there, not to realize how much we try. Well there is going to change and that resistance of conflict makes you uneasy and brings you anxiousness, your fear, your depression, your fear, your depression. So we have to hold on to that. Thank you. depression, your guilt, your unhappiness, your jealousy, your envy, all because of this resisting what is. That uneasiness, it's dis-ease.

So it's resistance, conflict and disease that's going on right now. Something comes up that I don't like. Oh, I don't want this one. I shouldn't be thinking that. I shouldn't be feeling that. I don't want it. I've got to try and get rid of it. So what do we do in trying to get rid of it? We resist it. Again, we're in conflict with it. Trying to push it away. What does that do? That makes us fearful, angry, depressed, guilty, unhappy again. All the cyclising suffering comes about because of that constant resistance going on. Now there are times throughout your life you've seen through it.

You've had glimpses of it. Where everything's falling into place naturally and after that. But because of it. Start thinking about it and imagining it and anticipating it. It doesn't last very long. It changes. Now it's constantly changing, vibrating and changing. When we put in the labels on it, making the change worse than what it is. Instead of leaving everything as it is, which means unaltered, unmodified, uncredited. Let it come, let it go. And fixate on it. Try to change it and bring about all the psychological suffering. There again, there's no clouds will come and seemingly obscure the sun. And a cloud comes. And you investigate that and see that the sun forms the cloud.

And the sun, as its radiance will blow the cloud away. And there's no cloud stitched on the sky anywhere. It was pasted in the sky. It comes and goes. Now look in your mind and see all these thoughts that come up. And we fixate on them. And cling to them. And we try to change it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. And we fixate on it. There's no thought stitched in the air or stuck to anywhere.

We fixate on them, the unfixated events, where it comes and goes. And you can retrieve all the psychological regret. But it beats us all. And the Satshit Amanda, the existence consciousness level of life, sat as existence, and even though it's not existing right now, anyone who's unconscious or unaware like this no you're not unaware anyone are not happy to be yeah you're happy to be you'd rather be than not be at the moment so you're already that what have you been seeing these years trying to find something that's make this person believed in persona the mask all complete not realizing that you are already other another way of putting that as being knowing and loving to be being is interesting knowing is the cautious and loving to be is this will stay to the loving stone anyone who isn't being like this becoming the beingness anyone who is unknowing you're knowing to say i don't know you must be knowing the other side anyone is not happy to be you know rather be so you are already that always work will be and ever and always that that is all there is so the search itself is the problem because it's the seeking what are you looking for you're trying to become what you already are and always have been you wonder why you don't get it how can you try and how do you get them to become something you already are that's how it's gone that's how it's going people look in my answer in the in the mind for years never find the answer because the answer is not there that's why they call it the scriptures they call it the peace passes all understanding why would they say that because where do you understand where are other things understood aren't they understood in the region in the thinking so they're telling you clearly but the answer is not in the mind the peace is where the mind is not that's why they call it the peace of the past so look into these things recognize them see for yourself and that's the point only you can do it i can't teach you anything i can't tell you anything nobody else can you've got to investigate the self see for yourself and only you can do that and you as the person can't do it but something will move you to look a little bit further something you've looked into these traditions and religions and believe in them and worship them and do all sorts of things with trying to find something but you never found the answer there it's always come about when that stillness from silence has come up of its own accord and been recognized and while we're worshiping and doing all these religious functions some of us well after a while see this is not getting too far with this i'm going to look look a little bit further and it takes them to look into something else and they have been down through the ages there are so-called there's energy that has recognized past it on and that's where the religions are formed around but each one had to see it for himself and it's like trying to find the answer in the mind and when you look at it and see where every direction you'd always look will always be in the mind what way is there out of the mind pull stop don't go there just let it pass and you can't let it or do anything with it it will pass of itself left alone that's what i tried to do in my life i've realised that the way that it can happen and change bring about the change that it was necessary here for that change to come about well this pattern wouldn't be here right now it's lasted for 93 years when it was almost out of the picture at 30 something turned around and changed and whether these words are correct or not it doesn't really matter whether i there is enough in them for somebody to resonate with them, hear them and follow on further, look for themselves in certain people.

That's happened to some of the so-called people who have listened to this over the last 40 years. Not only through this pattern, but there are many others out there who are pointing to the truth also. In the pointing, take a look and see it for yourself. That'll do me for the day, I think. Julia, will you carry on from there? I'm going to still let you run the show. I'm just trying to encourage this for Americans. I'm glad to see some Yanks here. If anybody has any questions or if you want to jump into the conversation, I'm happy to do that. I'm going to do that.

I'm going to do that. I'm going to do it. If everybody wants to talk, definitely. Okay, well, that is your opportunity. You can unmute yourself and I guess when you're done talking, just mute yourself if you can figure that out. You have done your questions as I色. Yes, I think you make people speechless, Bob. You might make myself speechless too. Hi. I've got sort of a question. I find that sometimes it still seems like i'm the thinker of thoughts and i was just wondering if you could say something about that so what was it uh some sometimes it seems like i'm the thinker of thoughts but yet at other times i can see they're just that they're just happening and that's what seems to keep the the seeking going yeah and so i think sometimes i think and there again what's your next thought going to be you don't know it's real as thinking happens doesn't it yes as soon as you say i think what have you done you formed a subject a thinker and the thinker is thinking his thought and that thought becomes the thought i think becomes the thinking becomes the subject and the thought becomes the object so thinker and thought are now become dualistic subject object if you investigate that and say it's non-dual you can't be a thinker without thinking no and can they be the thought without thinking and you realize before you learned words with thoughts livingness was going on without thinking so that thinking is the life expressing through you it's not the person who related the person i think into the subject that's why you'll never find the answer in the mind because we're looking in the mind to find the answer with concepts and it's non-conceptual for me it doesn't happen and what way is that of the mind to be comfortable with that or is that a concept that you have What way is there out of the mind?

Every direction you look will always be in the mind. What way is out of the mind? Full stop. Just don't go there. See the thoughts are happening. Seeing is happening. Tasting is happening. Touching is happening. Smelling is happening. The functioning is happening. The ing gives us subject object, experiencing, thinking, seeing. But the ing is not an experience. It's still listening. But be with the ing. The ing. You can be with it as it is. The ing is going on right there. It's like the breathing. The tasting. The tasting. The ing. The ing. The ing. The ing. The ing. The ing. The ing. The touch. The heartbeat.

The air in fingernails growing. It's all in that ing. The activity. And you are the intelligence and the vibrating. You are that acting, doing thing. That's life. You are the life, the living. That is the godliness here if I can. So, then it also doesn't matter what thought shows up. Doesn't matter what thought shows up as well. as well. Yeah, that's right. I say like you used to say, it's all one stick. Every stick's got two ends on it. So the functioning is the same. Good, bad, pleasant, painful. They're the one thing, two ends. If you go to the South Pole, you can't go any further south.

Next step will be north. Go to the North Pole, you can't go any further north. The next step will be south. So that's still the same thing. Where do they meet? There's the equilibrium in the equator. Equator. Equator, yeah. Yeah. That was still the one thing. It's just that, you know, like just because the way language is, it attributes it to a person when it's not. Like what's believing like that thought as well? It's just, you know, talking to itself. You know this well. Yeah. You don't trust yourself? You don't trust? Yeah. No, it's just, just a bit of doubt. I don't know why. Well, there again, who would be the doubter?

Yeah, no, that's just a thought as well. Yeah, I or me. Yeah. I or me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Well, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. If you're not relating the I or the B as the person, as the functioning intelligence, it will clear away very quickly. Yeah. Thank you, Bob. Thank you. As I say, you know it, get the confidence in yourself and express it. Yeah. Sometimes I post replies in the group on Facebook with, you know, things that sort of come up. But yeah, I don't find sometimes, like on the meeting on the Sunday, it sort of doesn't really come up to share anything because there's just not really any questions anymore, not really.

So, yeah. Well, if you haven't got questions, put out some little thing that you really recognize. Somebody else might be waiting to hear it in the way you express it, where they couldn't have asked if it was where I or somebody else was expressing it that way. And so, you know, it would be useful. Don't hesitate to express it. Let someone else have the tune. Thanks. Bye. Bye, Bob. Bye, Joan. I just what's coming up here is all the different labels, all the different labels that come up that name and claim, you know, like there's the choice maker, the me, the persona or the person, you know, and the habit or the conditioning is to attribute what's happening to either the choice maker, the me.

Or the person. But we realize through all your pointers that there is no choice maker. There is no person. And there's no one to name and claim anything. There's just life itself, pure life itself functioning. But as you say, there are always, you know, appears to be this pairs of opposites, you know, me and the other pleasure, pain, happy, sadness, you know, and all of that. And you say, hey, I'm going to do it the way I want to. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad. Yesterday, tomorrow, you know, etc., etc.. But that's just the nature of the mind, isn't it, Bob? That's just the way I translate .

So it's the narrator or the translator. But it's all appearing on that presence that you are. Yes. Uh-huh. And it couldn't be any other way. to express itself through, it would still be in that absolute, which it is anyway. That's the absolute. We would be that no thing. Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. And so in its unicity, it manifests in these patterns of energy to know itself. Yeah. Yeah. It's just wonderful having all these pointers to take us back to the place we never left. Thank you, Bob. It changes the game because it ends and I'll shut up. Oh, sorry. Did you need to say something, Julie?

Okay. Can you guys hear me? Is my microphone working? Okay, great. Hi. Hey, how's it going? All right. How are you? Oh, I'm fine. Thank you. So a pointer that, it's not really a pointer, but something that Nisargadatta used to say when people would ask him his story, he would say that his guru or his teacher or whatever he referred to him as, said that, you know, always go back to the I am. That's the book, the I am that. And I never really understood that pointer because I didn't, I mean, I understood it conceptually, but the I am, you know, that was just another, a label, another thought.

And then you and I were talking last week on just a private Skype chat. And I don't remember exactly what you said, but something, there was something that made sense. It always sounds really good in my head. And then when I tried to speak it out loud, it doesn't come out very well. But what happened was, is I saw that, that true knowledge that you can all, the only thing that you can ever really know, as you pointed out before, is you exist. I exist. That's the only thing I can ever really say for sure. Like, I can't say that this is not a dream or a hallucination or whatever, but I can say that I exist and that's it.

And, but it goes even prior to language, even before. So, you know, I can say that I exist. I'm not saying I exist. It's just that knowledge, that knowledge that cannot really be quantified or qualified. And that to me, I understood then what Mr. Goddard was saying then when he said that, I am, go back to that I am, that's what he was referring to, that wordless void of knowledge. And it's not, it's not a void, but for lack of a better term, that, that spaceless space. And, and that's what I've been doing. When I remember to, you know, and then of course memories, when I say I remember to, I'm speaking conceptually as well, but anything that comes up, frustration, feelings, even moments of losing my temper, like I did a few minutes ago, a few minutes before this thing started, when I dropped some dishes, you know, those, those come and go very instantaneously.

And you try to come back to that knowledge that I know, that I am. And even in times when it feels like I've lost it, when I've forgotten it, then I remember, well, but did you cease to exist? Did you cease being? No, of course not. And that always puts things back in perspective to acts like an anchor. And another thing that I've seen then with, as a result of this is that, um, feelings that I would take to be signs of regression in terms of pointers like dullness, a lack of euphoria, a lack of energy, a lack of joy, et cetera, et cetera. When I go back and look at it from the perspective of the knowledge that I exist, then what happens is all those feelings are labels of emotions, of energy being, uh, being put on another, it's energy being identified as something other than what it is.

It's energy being identified as an emotion, as a sadness or happiness or a joy or frustration. But when I see it from the perspective of the, that knowledge of existence of my, of me, of my own being, um, it doesn't really bother me as much anymore. There's no one really there to be bothered because it's just seen as like motion of energy going across, um, a, uh, a spaceless space. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. And so I've found that to be helpful. Um, I guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Anyways, well, that sense of presence and he said, it's like, it's just stumbling.

All I am is people thinking mainly staying with the floor. But what's that sense of presence? How would you say you were in prison? Couldn't you say I am? And when he's saying, same with the I am, which is not being staying with the thought of the word, staying with the words and sense of presence, the knowing that you are. He said, he stayed with that for time and recognized that that sense of presence was what he actually was. To stay with the thought, I am, is a thought. And he can repeat that. And he can repeat that. Forever. I'm not going to get you anywhere because it's just another word or a thought.

But what it means, the sense of presence means that awareness of being, awareness of being present right now. That's the I am-ness that translates as the thought I am. And that's the true I am-ness, or awareness, which is not the words. Stay with that, you know, and stay with the sense of presence, you won't be using the word. You'll be aware, utterly aware of that person without the word. That'll take you where you gotta go. That, to build on what you're saying there. What I've seen that is, remembering that sense of presence that you're talking about, it gets easier to remember to come back to them.

You know, when I say remember, remember for lack of a better term that's a mental word but uh and also things kind of have started to shift in in different ways like for example this morning i woke up from a dream i was having and uh of course when you wake up like you were saying earlier in your talk that you know where does the dream go um it doesn't go anywhere and in the shift between waking up in the dream there was this sense of something else starting uh and at that moment between when you're awake and when you're asleep you can't remember it's hard to tell cognitively which is reality and which doesn't which is the dream which is you know reality but there was a sense of something beginning of meaning like my waking day and but on top of that that was happening on top of this sense of presence which is timeless and um was we have this idea that time starts and ends but it doesn't because everything seen from that perspective of presence you see it as a uh at least what i in my experience i've been seeing it as a um it appears to start and end it we feel like time has we feel like things have a beginning and an end because when you're looking at it you start looking at it and when it passes you've stopped looking at it for example you started an emotion then you've stopped an emotion or an emotion has started and then an emotion has stopped but it happens all on top of that that presence and um that presence itself has no time which is something that you've talked about ceaselessly but like to talk to tanya there for a little bit um don't worry about it because uh you know i've i've been where you've been as well where things start to make sense and then there's this like there still seems to be this identification that's um i think that's a normal part of the process as it were so um anyways that's that's what i wanted to contribute for this point good church in this room that sense of presence translates into thoughts um did you know about that um those things um the way that was as thoughts and consciousness comes upon that awareness and it translates into all the things that are going on it's all the same essence and what came up for me um when i was listening to tristan was anything objective is is not the presence you know any anything it all thought is objective so anything that's objective is not the presence so yeah anything that appears and can you talk a bit about thought feeling and emotion being one bob yeah well it's just the same way nature functions like steam water and ice forces steam is very very subtle that's evaporated water it'll condense a bit and it'll become water and because that'll cool down those will come down and become ice or thought feeling emotion basically the thought say a subtle a subtle thought will come up you might never notice you might concern you much just keep it there for a little while then it'll become a feeling or a sensation and then that keep that feeling there a little while and it'll they will become it will become the emotion the anger the jealousy the envy or whatever and that can be almost instantaneous we say a little while notice could you would you be angry if the sensation wasn't there didn't come up with us and what's caused that a subtle thought don't like it i don't want this there's a subtle thought behind all the activities and it becomes the feeling and the emotion and that's just like the spirit and see there's no division in any of it it's all seen there before it's all two ends of the one stick spirit and matter you know what spirit we call spirit we believe spirit is like essence like the scent of a flower or something like that, it's essence is no seemingly subtle.

And then it'll solidify, keep it there long enough, it'll solidify and become matter, like blood will congeal, water will become ice. The spirit, the two, the same thing, two ends of the same thing again, spirit and matter all one. When we isolate them, it's gotta be spiritual or material. And in that division, we're losing sight of the true nature of things again. And you know in nature, that's not when you say, somebody says something to you, and you say, I don't mind. That means it's gone through to the people you couldn't care less about. And it hasn't stirred anything up. No, it's gone through. But if it does mind, you're pounced on it, you know, and keeping it there, and that'll bring again all the emotions and everything else up.

Saying that it doesn't matter. Somebody says it doesn't matter, that means you're not concerned with it. But when it does matter, all the feelings and emotions and everything else are there with it. It's all the one thing, you know. It's still the two ends of the one stick. And then we have a response when those emotions come up. The me comes in and says, I shouldn't feel, that's all I'm feeling. I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say that. You know, I've lost it, but you can never lose it because you're always right here, right now, no matter what's going on.

Bob, you know, when you spoke about the clouds and the sun before you said how the thoughts come up like the clouds, but we know that when the clouds come up, you know, the sun is still there. You know, we don't think the sun is gone, but we could go even further than that, right? Because I am the sun. There's no question of the sun ever being blocked by the clouds it's only a matter of attention right when the attention goes to the clouds then it seems like oh the sun's being blocked the sun is saying the sun's being blocked which is ridiculous when you actually look into it yes but the radiance is the radiance of the sun that forms the cloud sun shining and writing evaporates water forms a cloud same with the you know the essence of the sun itself that forms the cloud the sun doesn't know anything about the ground couldn't care any of the metals not contaminated you'll grow you'll go on pretty well yeah it's it's it's like like i said on yesterday on the chat um you know stuff still comes up sometimes and you know at those times there's sometimes this feeling that oh you know where's this coming from and uh you know even a question of why but i think when that's looked into to see it's just the same old stuff then it kind of loses its sting it's easy to default to when you're looking into these types of investigation investigations it's easy to default into you know trying to figure it out with the mind because that's what we do with everything else in life trying to do math or do a recipe or do our jobs or anything we just try to think it out and it doesn't work with this and i've you know been looking through this like most of us for years i'm sure and um you know of course we all experience that type of satisfaction that you get uh when you get something new a new pointer explained to you and then it makes sense for a while but it's easy to forget or not ever see clearly that it's i don't really like the word illusion because it is that's what it is like a mirage or something because you actually you do see something but it's not what you're seeing is not what you think it is um so like what rohan just said there it's just things still come up and i don't even know why things are coming up or what's coming up exactly or not exactly sure what you're referring to but that's how i understood what you were saying and that's what i've been um experiencing too and in my subjective experience uh from this perspective but like i said when you remember that the only thing you can really know is not you know how many pointers you can collect the only thing you can really know is do you exist or don't you and that's an easy question to answer when you look at it because it's an instinctual answer that any anything would say that it exists um it doesn't really matter then what comes up it doesn't mean that things that come up aren't going to be pleasant or unpleasant but it's going to be something that's going to be a little bit more it doesn't matter there's not going to be or it doesn't mean that there's not going to be emotional reactions because as as human beings or the appearance of a human being there's going to be those types so that's just what that's what's just what nature does you know but it doesn't matter what thoughts come up it doesn't matter that if confusion comes up or something sometimes i think that the mind is just playing a game with you you know it's like well let's just throw this out and see what he does with it and you don't need to unravel everything and so of course sometimes i think it does help to speak with you bob like otherwise we wouldn't be here right and to get some pointers and some reminders some clarification on that but in the end it doesn't get to a point where you realize it doesn't really matter what's coming up and why because what's coming up is just what's coming up as long as you remember that what you are is it goes beyond thought and feeling and any cognitive understanding that a person could possibly have um and if that's your anchor then uh then it's okay for things to come up hopefully you know you'd want nice things to come unpleasant feelings to come up but if they don't come up or if they don't come up frequently as they never do because that's just not how life works that's okay too and there's just more of a sense of uh of calmness and peace there um and that's not to say that i don't get phased ever no of course like i you know mouth off just as much as the next person but um but the more i look into this there's more of this just letting things be and just letting things work out as they are and that doesn't mean that you become like a lazy loaf and just uh let hope things fall into your lap but there's just more of more of a um of a flow and a more of a trying to think of a better word than acceptance but um the more openness that's what the word maybe like to use yes the mind can be utilized you can use the mind but the trouble is i believe it is something that uses us lines that translates and all that can be utilized but what's it utilizing it's usually in words and everything it's all the mind itself is all more pattern shapes and forms that's relieved but instead of saying it's all the one essence that's forming or battening or expressing how's that thing they call mine and all the words and ideas and things are going on so one essence is battening shaping and expressing that's everything and that is all there is and you are that there's no separation not two one without a second not even one just is hi bob i have a question um you know it's it's it's kind of related to what rohan was talking about attention and um you know shifting attention from the clouds to the sky and it's where it's at the middle of the year you're getting it and then you get it at the end of the year you know there's a lot of stuff around it's you know and that's an it's it's also related to what you were talking about earlier on with regards to stop uh don't don't go there don't go into your thoughts so um i just the question is is there a choosing to focus attention away from the clouds is there a choosing to stop and not go into and believe the thoughts or is that just a happening by itself well there's no choice maker choices are mine there's no choice making so it's just a happening by itself as you say you can't stop your thoughts but thoughts somehow or other some way or other they just fall off they just don't bother coming up or if they come up the old habits broken now up instead of hanging around for days weeks or years and until i racked them up they're seen through and they'd go up just like a passing cloud much cloud go by but they never corrupted and contaminated the sky at all and how about and sorry bob sorry to interrupt you um how about attention how about attention how about the attention i give to the sky um rather than the clouds well you can't like everything else you can't do anything you can't be attentive but there can be a recognizing of inattention as soon as that comes up that recognize it must come from this point of attention must come from what's opposite because there's only being them you can't resist anything but you recognize your resistance from the point of numbers when you're resisting something it'll come up there's resistance going on that goes through it all all the ups and natural recognition bob could you say resistance is only a problem because of the belief in a resistor so someone there to take ownership over it um even for confusion or any other pattern that appears it's only because it's it's me that's confused or me that's resisting that is a problem but if that me is seen to be not solid and not even there then all of the other crap attached to it drops off as well that's right yes so i have a really irrelevant question not for bob but for everyone in the room just um i think i can see a few of you are americans but i mean how many here are actually in america because that was the idea raise your hand yay follow yanks i don't my camera's not working so uh-oh i just lost bob oh there he is okay he got moved okay cool thank you thank you for doing this bob thank you thank you always a two-way street yeah yeah i was um like all the officers can't be one without the other brings back fond memories of those monday mornings at your place years ago like all the options can't be one without the other brings back fond memories of those monday mornings at your place years ago bob where we used to drink a lot of coffee and read the krishnamurti reader and talk about the uh me and the other yeah yeah struck got in touch or somebody got in touch with me that you would remember flying back then patricia oh really how is she she's 90 now wow and you're 93 wow where is she now something french wow that's fantastic she was uh just for everybody else she was the wife of a british diplomat and she was just the most gorgeous gorgeous woman wasn't she bob yes and you and bob probably still is and she saw you and barbara went to visit her in provence didn't you yeah she was just stunning and beautiful beautiful woman yeah oh that's great is she well yes i think she's like me aging a bit getting a few problems hey bob i saw a guy on the tv the last night who was 110 and i thought oh great that means if bob sort of lives as long as him that will have him for another 17 years that'll be lovely it's there's apparently that will happen for another 17 years that'll that'll be lovely it's there's apparently that will happen for another 17 years that'll be lovely it's there's apparently across the bifond Pre pueda is there's a club the 110 club you ought to join it bob if you all can't stand on your own two feet why keep me around make a slave of me we just love you that's why yeah i love you so i'll make sure that i don't stand on my own two feet okay maybe we could hear from one of the other americans that we haven't heard from before i'm half american i and julia knows that and bob and um i always love to hear from my my fellow countrymen so if someone else from america wants to say something that'd be great my name is eric i do some work with jp he invited me to this meeting um my question was it was the same thing like there was a i've seen that there's there's times in my life where i'm i um there's fear occurred in me and i stopped being who i was i started acting as somebody different uh to protect myself and i've been looking at um that and my question was the same like was there a choice you know where i stopped being who i am or acting as something different to protect myself and that's something i still do today i think that was answered so it's it's now my question this meeting is being great thanks thank you so you've got anything to say about that bob about that that how we um how we protect ourselves by you know um when we're that false evidence appearing real comes up can you say anything how we how we sort of protect this me trying to protect something that's a phantom well that's always there's always a response to whatever goes on responses can be natural reactions and be taken from the concepts you know when you react to something this thing and the beliefs there's a response that's a natural function just like breathing and heart beating and that you know just recognize what it is there's a response right response but if you're reacting to it i like the nisargadatta quote of nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination and people are not the same as you are and i think that's a very important thing to remember and i think that's a very important thing to remember and i think that's a very important thing to remember and bob has said break that down into image in and so every time i catch myself getting um upset if i'm holding on more than a toddler would um yeah i think there's there's some imagining happening it's the monster under the bed it's kind of like that you know you you and those of us who are parents are known maybe you remember being a little kid and there was a monster in the closet or under the bed and you're scared of the witch down the hall or whatever but it's you get older you're like oh no there's no monster in the bed and so this is the monster under the bed that i was imagining and i can look at it like that and uh yeah it's it's um this is for me game changing because it ends the game there's no more game game over but it's now kind of fun more light and fun and easy thank you thank you and i guess all conflict arises when when we're operating out of out of that me don't you think bob like because you're resisting what is yeah yeah resistance is conflict yeah yeah leave it as it is unaltered unmodified uncorrected no preference no partial no comparison it comes and goes so it's great to have this meeting on a monday morning is everybody uh looking forward to next week next monday i'll be here i'll be here for sure thank you so much for you know being so generous bob really appreciate it thank you julia for making this happen yeah it's wonderful i'm just i am i just moved here fellow yanks from um from california in january and so they've been doing these zoom meetings on um tuesday and thursday nights australian time which is america's wednesday really or technically or tuesday at 2 30 in the morning and i really wanted to do it but i couldn't pull myself out of bed at 2 30 in the morning so when he said he was willing to do this i was like cool i should have just asked him like months ago like when before i moved here like oh can you i'll zoom it you just jump in and we'll all go but i'm really grateful bob thank you this is wonderful and uh good for fellow yanks because um can't be just aussies hey any yanks having trouble with his accent i speak australian so yeah it's lovely i think so too okay i'll close it now thank you very much thank you so much bob love you thanks everybody thank you bob thank you thank you thank you have a good night love you all love you love you love you back bye thank you you