It is always and ever being That. Sailor Bob, Kat - nonduality. 5 Sept 2021

Morning everyone. Seems like a nice morning this morning. Where I'm sitting I haven't had time to get out and have a look yet. Well, come to share I guess, to what is understood here. It might not be understood there. But then again if there's any stumbling blocks or stoppers it might clear some of them for you. So that the way, the Great Way will be opened up a little bit more. And it is, as they say in the Taoist say, the way that can be spoken about is not the way. But it is a pointer. A pointer is just like a signpost. When you read the signpost, pretend a lot of it can't see a signpost.

When you read the signpost you know you're not there. But it's a good pointer. If you follow the direction you might end up there. It's a bit different here. We say there's no starting off from or ending up from. It has always and ever been that. Only that. That is absolute. It's all there is. And don't go looking for something you call the absolute. Because if it's all there is you must be the absolute. And if the absolute is looking for the absolute, what's it going to find? If the absolute, nothing can be added to it, nothing can be taken away from it. And you are that.

What's the search all about? Just, this is a reminder. To recognize. Find yourself and recognize that is all there is. That is the only self. The soul if you like to call it that. S-O-L-E, not S-O-U-L. The soul, the one and only. And it's always been so. Does it really matter what appears? Patterns, shapes and forms? In that? It's always that. And it can be enjoyed or it can be disliked and hated. If you've put some conceptual overlay on it. It hides it, it seemingly covers it, obscures it. And the great obscuration is I am the person. Not that I am that, but I am a person.

Implying I am a separate entity. An individual. And persona, person comes from persona. The mask. I've got this mask. Of what? Of a conceptual person, a separate entity. Which is obscuring the true nature. So are there ever any problems going on in this life? Or any unhappiness or any misery? As well as the joyousness and the love and recognise that it's only the mask that's stopped it from flourishing and shining in its fullness. Just like the cloud blocks out the radiance of the sun. And all the things appear to be blocking that natural radiance. But it is the background of everything. And there's nothing that could appear if it wasn't for that space-like awareness.

We put the awareness on it because awareness is knowing. Another way for that is knowing. It's a pure knowing. A pure cognising. Buddha pointed that out when he said that emptiness is form. Awareness is empty. Has no pattern. No shape. No form. No centre. No circumference. Space-like? Well, liken it to space. Look at space. The closest thing to your eye, eyeball, is space. It's the first thing you see. Can you grasp that space? Can you cut it? Can you separate it? Can you divide it? You can't. And the next thing you see, whatever it is, in space, will still be in space. There's nothing separate from space.

And space, if it's got no centre, no circumference, or any sides or any... It's not separate. Postulate something outside of space. What would it be in? Realise it can only and ever be in space. And the great mantra is, I am that. What could be the that-ness that they're referring to? It's not the body, not the mind. It is that space-like stillness and awareness. And all the movements take place in that silence and stillness. All the movements. All the same, any pattern, shape, or form. But they seem silence and stillness. They seem solid, substantial, and real. And without investigation, they will be believed to be real.

And taken to be real. But upon a little bit of investigation, you see all the patterns, shapes, and forms that are appearing. And that is all they are. Patterns, shapes, and forms. Things. So I am a thing. This body-mind is a thing. You are a thing. The tree, the flower, and everything else are things. Space is no thing. No centre, no circumference. No pattern, no shape, or form. So it's no thing. Yet, this manifestation is appearing in that space. And we've taken it to believe it is some thing. The pattern, shape, and form we think is some thing. And have an order. We put labels on all the different things.

The tree is a thing. The flower is a thing. You are a thing. I am a thing. We put labels on different shapes. And even the things itself are differentiated. So it becomes many. Instead of the singular, the one, the one becomes the many. And the many we need to recognise and realise is only the one. Absolute. You and I and everything else is the absolute. Or, as they put it in Buddhism, the great perfection. Now, perfection, the perfect, is like absolute. The same thing, a different label. Because what can you add to the perfect? Can you take anything away from the perfect? If you put anything onto it and take it away, it's no longer perfect.

Or seemingly so. And it's only seemingly so that it's been taken away from its perfection. By the labels or the words we have learnt. And how many words we are born with. I couldn't say, well now I'm coming out. Now I'm born. And I'm not taking my first breath. It wasn't until I learnt words. From my parents. Parents who had learnt words before me. And they had learnt words. And then they send me to school. Where I learn more words. And start to take the words to be real. And acquire, keep acquiring words. To add to my vocabulary. Sadly enough I've forgotten a lot of them today.

Now if I was the word and I'd forgotten it, what would happen to me? But I still haven't disappeared yet. Yet's another word. But, and there's many different ways, many different issues for it. Different definitions for it. But it's still the same basic essence or energy. Or vibration. That's behind it all. And a lot of the vibrations are labelled as thoughts. Sound, meaning. Musical notes. Anger, fear. All vibrations. Love. Joyousness. Beauty. Put on the same thing. And why are they discriminated? Because that's the way that that vibrates. Being a vibration, a movement of energy. It can only vibrate dualistically. In other words, the same energy.

Endless. The beginning and end we put on them. And the vibration. Where do I begin? When I look into it I can't go back and say I began at birth. Because I didn't have any words there to discriminate it. And it wasn't until I learnt words that I could say this is I or me. And the labels my parents have given me is Bob. And I'm a good boy or I'm a bad boy. That's the start. But see how it runs away when I move away to that. And put the meaning into it. I'm Bob, a boy. That's done this and done that. It's made me fearful or anxious or unhappy.

Or nasty. Or angry. All different labels as it vibrates. And so how far away have I been from the word after I learnt and was picked up by it? Because there's a seeming definition in them, a meaning in them. Which those two things are words also. That seeming to vibrate and separate them. And I've gone into the belief I am Bob, an individual, a person. There are several, three things I've put on it. Another one is a human being. Another one is this body, mind. All different labels which discriminate that one, when recognised as pure intelligence energy, and that's just another word too, which is not a sexuality, but it's a closer definition to what we're pointing to.

A human being. And the animals and things around me. Being a cat, being a dog. The trees being a tree. Flowers being a flower. The space is being space. The stillness is being the stillness. All seemingly beginning, being, or if it's not being yet, the concept is that it will become something. If it does something, the belief that this word is real, it's becoming, it will become something. It's moved away from the being, it's into the idea or concept of becoming. And what is becoming? It implies a future time. Then we've got to look at this thing called time. We've got to take on the belief there is time.

Because when the seemingly birth you were told about it, and you didn't know anything about it without the words, but when you learn words you notice that it's changing. It's seemingly becoming something. It's becoming something different. It's still the body, what we call the body in the mind. But it's becoming, changing. And I look in nature and I see that out there it's daylight here. And a little while ago, before the earth changed around, it was darkness, or called or labelled darkness. Darkness was the absence of light. And when the dawning comes, the light comes up, the darkness disappears. It can't stand up to the light.

Now, did the darkness change into light? Did the light change into darkness? No. How could it be discriminated? Because there was a recognising, a recognising. I didn't realise while I was little either that just the sun, the earth rolling around the sun, when this part was fudging towards it there was light, and when it rolled around the other way there was darkness. But we call it daylight and dark. So look at the other opposites. Something comes up, I like it, and this is good. And what's the goodness? It's just the same as the other. It's the absence of the so-called bad, or the unpleasant. But you really walk and get into it, and recognise and like it, and the badness has seemingly disappeared.

But then another concept or thought or idea comes up, a sensation or a feeling, and it's badness, it's unhappiness, it's depression, it's guilt, it's envy, it's jealousy. And we don't see the basic screen that it's appeared on. Yeah. It's just the same as we don't see the blazing sun while a cloud is seemingly obscuring it. When you recognise that the cloud is caused by the sun itself and its activities, it evaporates water. Water rises and cools down and it condenses back into water again. And so it's changed. So just like the thoughts, patterns change, the energy which is vibrating into the changes, as Shakespeare told us, nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.

Whichever the way it's thinking, whatever way it's vibrating, it's into the opposite. High, low, past, future, pleasant, painful. This is what this life is seemingly formed. Otherwise, what could it do? If that vibration wasn't there, then what can you call a vibration? It's only somewhat of a movement, what they call spander or krill or other names they have for it in the script. A movement. A subtle movement of energy. But it's still the no-thing that's ever happening and appearing as something. So the anxiety and stress and guilt and remorse that I haven't got it is there purely and simply because it hasn't been recognised. And the Buddha's tell you that.

It's a cognising emptiness. That emptiness has a capacity in it of cognising or knowing or intelligence, what I call intelligence energy, broken down into a vibration or somewhat of a movement. When I say somewhat of a movement, take the spontaneous. When does now begin? We say now. But grasp that now. Because as you're saying that, you know it's gone. And it's beginning again. And it's ending again. Seemingly so. So it's ever changing like the ocean is ever changing. But it's never changing like the ocean is never changing. It's still the ocean. And so out here in the manifestation you can see the same thing happen.

And it's always like that. It's always happening the same way. Using different terms and different forms of it. Like thought, feeling and emotion are three aspects of the one. Like steam, water and ice are three aspects of the one. Like present, past and future are three aspects of the one. So it's only that one essence that never divides and never can divide. Constantly transient. It hasn't ever got any substance or any independent nature. That's why it cannot stand up to investigation. Because you realise there's nothing to investigate. No thing. It's all no thing that they tell us. Investigate no thing. Then you can say, oh, it's nothing.

Empty. A vacuum. Or a void. Aren't they all labels? We put upon it. Words. And what are those words or labels? Aren't they that seeming vibration or movement in the stillness and the emptiness that hasn't got any beginning or ending? So this whole manifestation when they call it mire or illusion they're pointing to it in the right direction. Pointing out exactly what it is. Somewhat of a movement. Appearing, seemingly so. That's why they call it mire or illusion. A phenomenal manifestation. And phenomena is one of the labels we picked up. And the definition of phenomena if you look in your dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be.

And that's all this manifestation. It's that. Only that. Which is appearing. To be seemingly so. Know it for what it is. Know it is that. Appearance. Again you take delivery of it. Take it as the real and the substantial. And realise that's what's happening. See when something comes up and it's good, I like it. I like it. And we want, we love the things we like. We've got to keep them there. We don't want them to go. Not realising that it's transient. It's going to change. Don't want it to go. So what do we do? We try to keep it there. The only way we can try to keep it there is by resisting it.

And you resist something. Push it away. A resistance. What are you in? You're in conflict with it. You're fighting it. When you're fighting with somebody whoever it is or whatever it is you're not happy about it are you? So that concept brings about uneasiness. A disliking, an unhappiness. A guilt, a shame to all. So resistance is conflict. And that makes, takes away the ease of being that is there when you're not resisting it. Just as it is. So in that uneasiness another name for that. The label we put on it is disease. And we take all the sicknesses and illness and everything in the body to be diseased.

And in that disease, what is there? Is there suffering? Is there unhappiness? Is there insecurity? So we see all these psychological labels we put on one essence which is the same thing. It's the one essence. The same. Appearing to be different. And this thing, pattern that's going on within us we call thought or sensation. We call mind. Sound, vibration. Mind, a movement of energy. And we've got this label on it now as mind. And that mind is claimed by this believed in entity. It's my mind. And we're not right around it. And we're not right realising that this mind is the cause of all our problems.

It wouldn't be wise to investigate that even. Is there such a thing as mind? Yes, well it's my mind. But hang on a minute. Who is this my or me? Another word for my is me. Or I. But we don't go around saying I mind because we know I to be something a bit more than that. We never find the answer there. But we keep, we've got the, when the thinking came about it and we recognise the thinking and all the rest of it, we believe this mind was real and taken on that belief. Now it's seemingly so. But even in the saying my mind there must be a question in that.

Who or what is this me that seemingly has this mind? When that is investigated, what is it? What's this my or me? I is a translation of this sense of presence. It's translated as a thought. I am. And what's that thought I am? Isn't that the primary sound? I am. Not I was. Or I will be. But I am. And knowing that it's a meaning. It's just freely present. But we haven't lifted it of that immediate presence. We've got to discriminate and put a label on this presence. Give it some meaning. And so the I am this body mind. I am this separate entity. I am an individual.

I am a person. And not until it's recognised do we say I am the absolute. I am the great perfection. I am all there is. I am that. And not only saying it, but recognising it. Recognising that's the truth. That I am this or sense the presence or awareness is what is breathing me. It is what is beating my heart. It's growing my hair and my fingernails. It's digesting my food. Replacing cells in the body. And who's the my or the me that it's doing it to? It's that. Because that is all there is. And so instead of just a mouth word, that, now it's become the reality.

And the person and the individual and the separate entity is seen for what it is. Just a seeming expression, a pattern. Which really has no substance or any independent nature. Which can't stand on its own. So we give it the term life. Because it's prior to the thinking and the thought. What's prior to the word? You can't say anything about it until you put that word life on it. And give it that conceptual image. But Christ told you that truth. He says I am the way. I am is the way. I am is the truth. I am is the life. That sense of presence. But people thought he was talking about himself.

Like we think we're talking about ourselves when we say I am. And you get lost in it. And they've got lost in it. But when he goes on to say that no one can come to the Father except through I am. Pointing out through that recognition or realising that that I am is presence awareness. That presence awareness is what he calls the Father. The beginningless beginning. The endless end. Eternal. Eternal. Eternal and ever fresh. Non-conceptual. Ever fresh presence awareness. Awareness without any of those labels. Before the word. It was prior to the word. It's prior to the being. It's prior to any concept you can put on it.

So it is no thing. Can it destroy no thing? Because no thing is nothing you can grab. It's a concept. A word. Or anything that can be spoken about like the Tao says. The word that can be spoken about. Yeah. The word. Investigation. A little bit of investigating. Who's going to investigate? Naturally wouldn't it come up? If you see something you don't know anything about. What do you do? You just throw it away. And then the thought comes up doesn't it? I'll look into this. I'll investigate. I'll get out my direction. I'll go and have a look to the place where it's happening. See what's going on.

It's not the I that opens the dictionary. Not the thought I that opens it. But it's translated into the pattern, shape and form that the I is expressing as it's forming. And that does the activity. But it's the life essence that's enabling those movements to happen. Just like the strings in the puppet make it to move. No we're not a puppet. We are the actual, the reality. But not the way it expresses. Not in the shape and form it expresses. In the nameless, shapeless pattern. The patternless, formless thing that's utilising the pattern it's expressing to. Utilising it and expresses through that. And it is always and ever so.

Even when the seeming so-called death comes about. And the pattern breaks down. Where does it break down into? Doesn't it go back to that life essence? The space-like awareness? Which as it says in the Gita, the sword can't cut it. The fire can't burn it. The wind can't dry it. And the water can't drown it. Why? Because it contains all of those things. It is the seeming creator that hasn't created anything. There's no creation that pattern shapes and forms a lot of it. And nothing can create it. But the thing is to notice, that believes in pattern is already that. Now if you recognise it's only a believed in pattern, shape and form.

You're going to give it any credence anymore. Aren't you going to see it for what it is? Like the other things that have been cognised and recognised and you let go of it. You see it for what it really is. And does the appearance stop appearing? Not necessarily. But are you bound by it anymore? And if you're not bound by it, what must you be? You must be free. And all these things that are known or think we've known and are recognised. And there's freedom from them when they recognise what they are. That statement, freedom from the known, is a true one. But only when it's recognised.

And I am this sense of presence. Or presence awareness. Bodiless. Mindless. Timeless. Spaceless. Beyond where, when or how. I am just this. And this is. This is the actuality right now. Which is that bodiless, mindless, shapeless, formless. No thingness. Which cannot be negated. Cannot be separated. Recognise it. Recognising that. Then this so-called thing called mind is not the enemy. It can be utilised. What is meant to be done. Emptylised. But it's not, no longer believed in as something that has any substance or any independent nature. Or can do anything of its own. But that, when that corpse, body, mind breaks down. The pattern, shape and form breaks down.

The life has gone out of that particular pattern. And that pattern will begin. Disintegration has stopped. Integration has stopped. Disintegration has stopped. And it will break it down. It will either be burnt or eaten by maggots or worms. But it will disappear. But that which is animating it, well that disappears. It won't. But it won't be forming in that particular pattern again. And it might go back into the grain of sin. Or it might become a mountain again. Who cares? Who knows? But it will continue to shape and form. But the pattern, shape and form is no thing. People want reincarnation. They want to be reborn.

But they want to be reborn as something again. Something with a name and form. Some pattern. That's going to be locked up in our old habits. Or in our old habits. Or we're going to be the absolute. When it's true nature. We'll be as it is. Ever and always and that. Now, cats here, as usual, might want to add something to it. And any of you who have questions or doubts, ask them. And those of you that are along the way, are along the way, and are recognizing, don't hesitate to bring it out. And bring out what you yourself know. If you need to quote from somebody else, well, it's all right.

But it's better if that quote that you heard from somebody else has resonated. Utilize it as your own. So away you go. A couple of questions. Or a couple of comments. And hi, everyone. I'm going to get into them because I needed to do the screenshots. And we start from here. And it is beautiful welcoming messages. And good morning, everyone. Loveliness. And gorgeous energy in the beginning. And then we go from Michael. Happy Father's Day to all the dads. And especially to our spiritual father, Sailor Bob. And James says to you. I am the father I want. There you go. No, Michael, you are that one also.

That's it. And happy Father's Day to the dads. Oh, yeah, that we got. And happy Father's Day, darling. Bob and all the dads. Jane adds. And Julia, why are we taking it all so seriously? Such an illusion. That's a nice comment. Yeah. That's not a question. That's a comment. See, who was the one that's taking it as an illusion? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's a. Then you'll no longer take it as an illusion when you investigate. Yeah. I guess because this is not a question, this is kind of an invitation to. Yeah. Because there's no answer. That's, yeah. The only answer is absolutely. Yeah. What a ridiculous idea.

It's such a play. It's such a wonderful joyous display. Why would you get so invested and so. Yeah. Yeah. And so. Oh, there is an answer. Jane says, why not? That's a good answer. Yeah. That's what life does. It is the play of consciousness and joy. Yeah. That's the play of consciousness. And then Julia says again, Jane, true, but to know the truth releases the suffering. And then we can become playful. Yep. With the seriousness of suffering. It's hard to see it. It's hard to see it. But it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not.

It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's just, play tells us a story. Play does a play, but yes, once you see, the joy springs in. Playfulness springs in. And you just don't become the play, the play just happens also. That's right, yeah. It's all life. It's life taking it seriously. Life recognizing this an illusion and life being playful… All of it. And that just… points your actuality as you are. I am the liar. Mm-hm. I am that life. Absolutely. Yes, only one. So the search is over. That's right. And we've got Tanya. There is a noticing that thoughts keep arising, questioning or investigating still, although there is no questioner.

Not sure why questioning is appearing. There is a curiosity and a bit of interest in thoughts, which is just happening, that is seeing. It is not the me seeing or recognizing as the thought image can't experience or recognize. That's the thought itself that's doing it. It's expressing it and pointing out it. But if you get... You relate it to the believed in me, that will keep going up and coming up again and again. But that's the point. Who's asking the question? Who is this me? What is this me? And when you realize it's just life, and then just settle back into that. Take your next breath with joy.

Breathe it out. Breathe out any unwanted thoughts. Let them flow out on the breath. That's it. And then you'll have a new thought. The next thought will give you a new insight into life, because life is ever fresh and ever free. And the only way it's expressing through these patterns is by thought, feeling and emotion. Those sensations are not going on. What good is the corpse? It's only the life and the corpse, the activity of it, that we can express and play and enjoy as that life. And the only way you can express the death, is by the mind. I also would ask Tania, does it bother you?

Because Bob beautifully said, whatever is happening, is just what's happening. Questioning is happening. Breathing is happening. Interesting thought is happening. Interest in watching a film or smelling a roses is happening. Wonderful. Let it be happening. What's wrong with that? If there is no preference for something else to be there, but if it does bother you... Or is that just another thought, just another arising question? Oh, just a doubting sort of a hint, like, oh, should it still be there? You know, if I've seen it, seen there is no one to question. Should the questioning, that sort of an energy still be there? Maybe it shouldn't.

So who's asking that question? It's just another wave on the ocean, on consciousness. It's just another passing phenomena. Don't believe that question. Don't invest in it. Don't take it seriously. Anyway, should it still be arising or should it not be arising? Well, it is arising. That's what life wants to experience and dance and play. If it's not arising, it's neither good or bad. It's just as a space you are with what is. Questioning arising, curiosity arising, investigating. I had the interesting sort of a conversation with one of my clients on the way. And I was really curious about it. How the... How the RNA messenger vaccines are created.

And that's just pretty mind-blowing. How the humans beat the system by putting a prescription for the spikes of the virus to be manufactured by your own body. Brilliant. That's pretty amazing. And down the track, the possibilities of finding cure for dementia, maybe a cancer. Or maybe modifying genetically and injecting people with dementia. Or cancer. Who knows? But the curiosity has arisen. And the investigation has followed it. And as usually, the way I look at life, I see like, ooh, that's pretty amazing. All of it is pretty amazing. If you don't have a preconceived notion. But just that curious attention flowing. What's not amazing? So the fact that curiosity around questioning arises, that's amazing too.

Would you like? Yes. Thank you. I thought you'd hear me pretty well when I'm sitting next to you. I can hear you. Nobody else you're going to be needing to hear. I'm reading questions from people, so I don't know if you really need it. Anyway. Anyway. So we have... Michelle says beautiful orchid. Yeah, it is beautiful. Taz gave it to us. And Julia says freedom. Not being bound by the dream, but engaging happens. Regardless, but it is with lightness. Yeah, that's a good answer to Tanya's observation as well. Yeah. Even if a doubting thought arises on the surface. If engaging happens, let it be light.

Light, enlightened light engagement. Not a heavy, dark, and darkening. Not seriousness, but the lightness. That's all the screenshot. But I remember there was... Tanya says going for a walk this morning, I noticed nothing is actually labeled in actual direct experience. Oh, beautiful. Brilliant. That's what I say. When I say, look around the room without putting any label on it right now. You're not labeling anything, but you know what everything is. Yeah. It's just a sign. Without the label. You don't see one blob in there. Yeah. All the different things. So when you're walking down the street or wherever you're walking, you don't, you know, you come across a cross street, you don't trip over the path or dip into it.

You'll naturally do it. If you're walking in a crowd of people, you don't run into anybody. That's right. Spontaneous function. Functioning is happening by itself. Our Julia from here says you are that. I mean you, Julius, are both our Julius, but one Julia is from Perth and currently in Broome and another Julia is kind of next door, 10 kilometers away. She says you are that. And Jane says, yes, we know Santa Claus is not real, but we can still celebrate Christmas Day and Father's Day as the play of consciousness. Beautiful. Yeah. That's yes. And Michael, life is sitting, eating its way through a big box of Lindt chocolates right now.

You've been honoured in your role as a father. Beautiful. Bit of a cannibal. Life that makes, allows chocolates to be full. Yes, eating itself, living life, living in life. And Tanya says, yes, thoughts of being bothered by the questioning still arising has been happening. Questioning still, yeah, life being bothered, thoughts of being bothered. Thank you for highlighting that. That's okay. Thank you, Bob and Kat. Yeah, see that energy of being bothered by it. That, oh, is it it? You know, there's nothing more than that. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's something more. Maybe the questioning should drop off. You know, the intention of that voice is really to just provide the best of the best.

You want to have the pinnacle of human evolution, pure enlightenment with no destruction. But that's still just a narrative. And that narrative, like every narrative, is the veil. The moment it drops away, what's wrong? What's wrong with right now if you don't think? Nothing. Be glad that the bothering is going on. If that wasn't going on, where would you be? Yeah, yeah, that being bothered is another disguise of love, another costume in which love is playing every role in life. But yes, just recognize it. And don't engage with what the narrative is saying. But just stay with that intention. That intention is love. But following the thought, you know, intention is in the heart.

Following the thought, you leave the intention, you go to the head, and you start comparing, elaborating, convincing yourself, or doubting, or fearing, or all of those sort of fear-related thought patterns come. So engaging with this one causes suffering. Staying with this one is staying in that I am, that love. Loving to be. Aldo says good morning. And Cha says good morning. And I think I've missed was, there was a comment. Good mornings, mornings. Oh. Mukti says love hearing Kat's voice. Mmm. And yes-ing. Mmm-ing. And yes-ing. Engaging with Bob as he's giving the spiel. And Jane says sweet. I had no idea you can hear it.

Yeah, I thought the microphone is so funny. It's so far away from me on the other side of the camera. I just want to be on the receiving end so he doesn't feel like he's speaking to the empty room. I had no idea. It's just for some reason that voice troubles so far. Well, you reckon the paper makes a noise, huh? Oh, definitely. So your voice would make a noise. Noise, sound, vibration. Mmm. Still all that. Still only that. I have no questions for a moment. So I'll just highlight. One or two things which you were saying. You know, you were talking about labeling oneself to be poor me or after all I'm only human.

And I like sometimes, today he didn't say it, but sometimes he says we put all of the labels, you know, I'm Bob and I'm Australian, I'm good boy or not so good or whatever. And then he says after all and the worst of it all. The worst of it all. Is I am only human being. I'm a poor human who makes mistakes who, you know, only human. So what would you expect? And that's a nice sort of a little spin. That's the worst. You know, if I think I'm the absolute or I think I'm a daughter or husband or whatever, the employee. That's sort of a role that I play.

But human being is an identification which doesn't serve any role. It is like what being human means. It may mean lots of things to different people. But in general, it's just, yeah, that's what I am. I can't do anything about it. That's it. I can do something about being mother. I can be a better mother. I can be whatever. But it's like really, really bad one because it's so different. Because it's so limiting. Now you are not as they say the life having a human costume or mask or experiencing the temporary sort of a pattern or role. Now you're kind of locked into that. I'm only human.

And it also is diminishing only. So the label has been discriminated. Human is something different other than what it is. Same with all labels. Yes. Yes. But some of the labels, you know, if you get the temporary label of a cook while you're cooking, it's not so bad. You're too busy cooking to actually really bother with the label. But human is kind of a static sort of prison you build around yourself. Are you human? Really? I can't say I'm human. Bob also sometimes says, who told you so? I'm pointing out that if nobody had ever told you so, you wouldn't have been human. I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't know any English and none of my people around me knew any English.

We were learning other languages. Human didn't exist. So the conditioning, somebody has told us something. Little Johnny or whatever. And we took it naively on faith. And kept reinforcing it until it became solid reality. Yeah, we take notice of our parents. They kept reinforcing it until then. And now it's time for unlearning. Questioning or unlearning. Where if you ask the question, how do you know that? Or who told you so? Who told you you're human? Who told you you're man or woman? Polish or American or Australian? That's what it says in the Bible, isn't it? Adam and Eve went up and said they didn't want to send themselves because they were naked.

He says, who told you you were naked? Who told you you were naked? Yes. Yes. Whoever it was, whatever this symbolizes, you know, the separate self or the snake, or whatever it is, is an agency outside. It's a second-hand knowledge. Whoever told you that. And you naively, open-heartedly trusted in that messenger, the mother or the teacher or the snake, is still second-hand. And there is a knowledge available, first-hand, experiencing. Hmm. And the parents told you you were a mob or a cat, or whatever your name was, they were the same thing. That's second-hand. That is. That is. Yes. I got lucky living in another country and then traveling around the world in every single nation would make my name into a different sound.

I never built any attachment to my name. It's a... It was a blessing. I got... Oh, no. It's an old comment. I see if we have any more comments. It didn't look like it. Yes, I have to change the screen. Hmm. And if I miss something, I'll try to find them on another screen. That is Cha. What are your thoughts on near-death experience? A lot of people claim to have seen heavens, hell, the devil or Jesus. Some have saved from the devil by Jesus. Is Jesus the ultimate guru? Near-death experiences, that's exactly what they are. Near-death. They're not death experiences. They're just more chatter that's going on in the head.

Yes, similar experiences had people using particular psychedelics or dreaming at night, having lucid dreams. If you are moved to believe that Jesus is the only guru, you have to believe Jesus to be real at this point. And if life moves you to do that, there's nothing wrong in anything life does. But yes, we are questioning all the beliefs. And we return back to whatever is not and does not have to be believed. Not the second-hand knowledge from someone who had the near-death or psychedelic experience. Not the second-hand knowledge of someone who told us about someone whose name was Jesus. No, it's the first-hand experiencing of existence.

That's the base. And then if life moves you to believe in anything, in supplements or diets or religions or anything, well, that's what it does. But the freedom from suffering lies in freedom from believing. Because if there is a belief, there is a believer. But question your beliefs. Because belief is not there. Because belief is not actual. Yeah. And who told you so? Tanya says, no human being, just pure being. Exactly. And all things are that pure beingness. For the level. It's being a chair. It's being the table, being the tree, being the flowers, being you, being me. Yeah, that was a nice one. To highlight when I heard you speak.

The being, all is a being. It has a being. It loves to be. And now the labels separate that being into a tree, the horse, the chair, the seat, the left hand, the right hand. The separation comes with the language. Because the being is all there is. And now, yes, no human being, just pure beings, Tanya. And Jane reminds you the other one, you say, take away the word human or supreme and you are left with being. Yeah. Yeah. We call God supreme being. I'm quoting Bob. We call ourselves a human being. Take away the label supreme and take away the label human. And try and differentiate the being.

I'm trying to get. Try and negate the being. You can't. Yes. That's another one on being. Try and negate your being. That's a good one. Because if you are not sure how well you know that you exist, try not to. That will make it clear. That will make it obvious. What are your thoughts on near death experience? Our Julia, the one who's closer, is answering. Everything has validity in the illusion. Anything past or other is there. Anything that's not there is illusion. Only the sense of I am without the label I am is real. Great point. Yes. And we could even say the primary, like a first generation illusion is whatever is happening in this moment right now in the I am through the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking.

But yes, definitely the imagined worlds of yesterday, imagined worlds of tomorrow are less real. Less real than the immediacy. But even the immediacy is a dream. Even what we see, hear, taste, touch and smell is the dream. It's an illusion. Beautiful, Julia. Thank you. Primali, questions seem to bother me as well. But then I realized I'm trying to find answers with the limited knowledge in our brain, head. That will never work. Yes. Fabulous point. That is the most important point. Yes, you can find the answers in the head for the basic mathematical equations. Or you can find the answer what to cook in the cookbook or in the thinking, deducting.

Yes. But not to the life and everything. Not to the mystery of who you are, what you are and what the world is. That's human brain and head and mind is not the tool for a job. It's just too limited. Thank you for reminding that. Bob always hammers it. There is no answer in the mind. The answer cannot be found in the mind. And also quoting Bob, some of you who were searching for 20, 30 years, if there was an answer in the mind, you would have found it. Or someone else would have found it and give it to you. Buddha or Jesus would have found it and give it to you.

And they don't, they don't. Nobody gives you an answer. They only give vague pointers so that you can look for yourself. No answer in the mind. Thank you, Primali. And Tanya. Love that. Your name and what you and what you told you is the second hand knowledge. Intelligence, energy, life is first hand knowledge. So you are the life. Thanks, Kat. Thanks, Bob, for the pointer. Who told you so? Yes, it is a really nice little contemplation topic. And other Aussie Julia, more Aussie yet because is replying to Tanya. Tanya, we and we were believed it. Well, another thought did. Yes, that was the reply to the second hand knowledge.

Yes, how innocently we took it on board. The name, the religion, the nation, the skin, the sex, the gender, all of it. Totally innocently because why would you even consider that somebody was telling you untruth? And it is not untruth within the within the framework of a dream. It is a functional knowledge. Only when we see it, we can see it. Knowledge only when we start elaborating on it. You know, I'm worthless. I'm unlovable and incomplete. I'm deficient. And that causes suffering and is unnecessary. And Tanya says also great point primarily that seems to have been happening here too. Sometimes the trying to find the answer in thought that indeed never works.

Only non-conceptual experience shows what actually is. Beautiful. Enrique, hiya. Need we go looking for beliefs to root out or take them as they come and see through them as they arise? Brilliant point. Absolutely. Don't waste your time sitting in the head and conceiving of beliefs that are not even showing up on the screen. And also, the shortcut is not a spiritual bypass, it's a spiritual smartness. Instead of undoing infinite amount of beliefs that you might have about the world or yourself, just look who is that me. With that, the whole house of cards collapse. Instead of questioning the belief in every single thing in the world, see who is the questioner.

That's the easy way. And then you see there's nobody there. So beliefs just floating through, let them float. Who cares? They're not yours. So you don't really have to bother, engage with them. And they sometimes drop away slowly. Like they may need to be left unattended for a while as the sort of a deconditioning, naturally rewiring of the brain happens. I remember when I saw through the illusion I was still kind of sympathizing with certain movements or certain ideas regarding the way people feed themselves and stuff like this. And I may still have sympathies, but there is no truth in any belief whatsoever. And that kind of slowly became more and more obvious, even though the questioner became obvious in an instant, the absence of one.

And a few more. Tanya is commenting, beautiful. Yes, it is only another thought that believed you are a me. Life does not believe itself to be anything. That's exactly right. And Amarnath, no separation in non-dual experience. Even non-duality also lost only awareness without aware. That's right. Aware. That's right. And Amarnath belief is just super imposition of I on I. Notion seen as notion. Beautiful. Yeah. The illusion, this is Mukti, is spectacularly, intensely entertaining. How could it not be? It isn't separate from the one intelligent energy. I like the wording. Spectacularly, intensely entertaining. I fully agree. Couldn't agree more. Look how entertaining. Anything. The cat. Sweetheart.

Anything. Anything you look, it contains the whole totality in it. So brilliant. It's just if you don't see it, look again, look closer and it blows your mind. It's so spectacularly entertaining. I'm not saying it's not. It's not. It hasn't got anything. It's so sûr put, it is so currently, intensely entertaining and it's so distracting too. And isn't that, from ... Rumi said, say the universe and grain of sand, something like that? Yeah. Yeah. See the universe and grain of sand. And he also said that, you are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in the drop. How beautiful is that? Mm.

And Michael, there is still a sense of ... Mm-hmm. Yes. stickiness of self here even though I don't believe it my direct experience and my direct experience proof it is just like any other sense coming out of nothing going back into nothing beautiful yet it feels like this view is the locus of anything making the view seem unique and like a sticky label self keeps getting pasted on what is the difference in awareness between this locus of self and just awareness is pure awareness the same for every apparent self believes it's got a based on of the stick pay to be sticky another stick yeah i i gather that you know the experience of being the plain being is pre-sensory it is not colored by the personality by your myopia or whatever by your taste for music or for food because every human experience or experience of the dream is somehow somewhat colored by the by the vehicle you know like you have the very clean crystal that is breaking the light into colors the colors will be different the distances between the colors will be different from crystal to crystal that's how that's how the unique experiencing of the of the human experience you know i will have different taste for men i will have different taste for food than you do so our worlds are uniquely different and it feels like oh yeah there is a me that colors that world no that me is just the body mind it's just a it's just the crystal that is breaking the light into colors i'm not that crystal i'm the life and as the life i'm that pure light and that light is no different the same light is shining through every crystal the same electromagnetic wave goes through different radios one is tuned to one station another one to different station but you are not the radio you are the potentiality you are that life so yes the being the pure pre-sensory existence cannot be different because it doesn't have flavor it doesn't have any color so it can't differ and to the point that you can actually say that existence or being of a tree or the or the stone or the galaxy or the star because it doesn't have anything that could make it any different it would be the same it's just the same being but the consciousness of it is different because consciousness is already colored is that that uniqueness of every expression is coloring the experiencing so is pure awareness the same for every apparent self and pure awareness yeah I would say the consciousness of being or the awareness of being but pure awareness is not even owned by any self if it's absolute yes what can be added to it what can be taken away from it yeah that's more than you just think it just did so instead of saying the self has the awareness you would say awareness has self it's like the awareness is the pure potentiality for expression no expression movement or no movement it's just something that you can't say exists or it doesn't and within that if there is a form that's an expression of that awareness is if on the ocean there is a ripple or a wave that's still expression of the self and the awareness of the self is pure potentiality for expression of the ocean they're not separate but it is it is a good point it is a nice way to actually marvel at how it can be the same and different at the same time how it can exhibit such an incredible variety that you don't have to the same perspectives or the same viewpoints or the same angles even if you have room full of people everyone is seeing even a half degree angle slightly differently but it's also experiencing differently because the the the brain capacity to process what is seen demands that you focus only on certain bits of what is seen and delete all the others and distort all the others so yes it is it is marvelous to point out that at the same time it is unchanging and at the same time it's changing constantly like what was was mentioning couple of times ever changing never changing it's both and neither is not to be grasped by the conceptual thinking but it is good to point it and marvel at it and Amarnath says beautiful all knowledge is second hand is in the mind and we neither know and we are neither knowledge nor ignorance exactly right yes and now we have Amarnath there is no glue mind belief to stick yeah that's what Bob just said yes yeah if there is a persistent thought reoccurring thought you know it's just like the persistent breathing or reoccurring heartbeats that's okay it's nothing wrong unless the mind tells you and Julia from broom you can call you can call us American Julia and British Julia but of course those are just labels oh we have two us one is the American Julia and one is British that's cute that's amazing thank you yes we have a differentiation American Julia is already a permanent resident an idea imagine that you might even be a citizen but yes that will be a nice differentiation and Chas says and I have seen other worlds myself through psychedelics so how do we know we don't go to the other worlds or heavens or hells when we leave the body and my living uncle has seen dead relatives come to take other relatives from the hospital as they passed on so where did they come from and where were they taking the newly passed on spirit oh i love that it's so beautiful you've got the world of past and future and we don't live in that world anymore but you enjoy it you enjoy it it's sweet it's beautiful what's it going to be seen through if it's seen through the life in the body now which the brain is seen through yeah the brain's out of use yeah i see different worlds every night when i sleep it's just because it kind of develops to the point of the curiosity i see different worlds really yeah , different creatures different planets not always sometimes i see that but does it make it any more real than anything you know if the body is illusion the world is illusion the past worlds the parallel worlds the heavens the health the spirits all of it is just part of the dreaming when you dream at night and you dream that some of your relatives see the ghosts in a hospital and you wake up how real is that dream it is amazing absolutely it is to marvel it is to love and admire but when you invest the belief see how distressing it can become oh my god i have to figure out what is true and i have to prepare and maybe i have to deserve i have to behave certain way to get to that heaven or maybe seriousness what british julia was saying seriousness why we take it all so seriously how about it really is it's a dream a magnificent display and you are the one who through that crystal through that body mind exhibits and with the full creativity of the omnipotence creates those worlds in that in this instant in this moment just like this waking world i may be fantasizing about going to whatever hawaii with bob next year and that fantasy is another一樣 and a different kind of another world that has just been created.

I haven't done it. The thought has come up and has created it in the fantasy. Now, investing in it and believing in it fully is fascinating. If life is moved to do it, to believe, there's nothing wrong. It doesn't need fixing. But if you do want to wake up from beliefs, then you might want to consider that there is no truth in any story, second-hand story, first-hand story. You may love them. You may appreciate them. But believing them brings up the seriousness and brings up the slavery. Because where the story happens in the mind, in the head, in the thinking, what if you get Alzheimer's disease and you forget which ghosts are supposed to, who is who from your relatives?

Oh my God, what a drama. What a tragic. And Jesus was saying, and Jesus is another dream, that whether you are a prostitute or you're poor or you're rich or you're intelligent or you're smart or you're stupid, it is equally, it is equally leaving you. The Lord's presence is equally available. The heaven on earth is here, not here. And I still love those stories. I love them. Especially romantic. Oh, different worlds. I've seen many worlds. I love them all. They're gorgeous. You see all these things coming up and you're hoping to see them when you're dead. Well, tell them they can come with you right now when you die.

Yeah. Instead of having to come up again and take them with you. Absolutely. How can you not? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Actually, mind, this thinking capacity, this capacity of firing synapses and creating the worlds, the universes like this, one after another, the great improvisation of putting you in a light hypnosis state and asking you questions about worlds or lives, eons before. If the information is not there, it will just come up because it is such an improviser. That's where the poetry comes from. That's where the spectacular paintings are coming from. This incredible creativity of life. It creates the stories about the past, relatives, futures, heavens, hells, devils, angels right now, right at this moment.

When you think about those past memories, that's when they exist right now. And the noises. And Michael says, so funny. Kat has answered my question before reading it. So appreciate your comment. Thank you, Michael. Bob is always very happy when someone appreciated my contribution because I tried to actually make him more engaged and I'm just here for that reason. It's nice. And Amarnath is answering to Cha. I have seen other worlds myself. Amarnath says, Vasanas, desire is mind, world. And mind equal world. They don't exist except in your own mind. Though mind thought is not existence. Apparent cloud. Yeah, good point. Absolutely. Where are the worlds seen in psychedelics or seen in the dreams or heard from other people seeing other people?

When you stop thinking. Gone. They only exist in the presence of creative imagination. Okay. Go on. They only exist in the presence of creative imagination. and thinking. That's a very good point, Amarnath. Thank you. And now we have Amarnath, no gain, no loss in the awareness, self. Bob, he's quoting you. Yep. And Amarnath, truth is simplest of simple plus unlimited, available freely in the abundance. But we wanted only complex one, because mind, through limited body, mind, senses and ego. That's a very good point too. Yes, the mind will never be satisfied with the singular, basic obviousness of existence. It wants something elaborative, something complex, prescriptions, how to get there, how to become it.

It wants to get engaged. It wants to help. It is, yes, never satisfied. I mean, come on, I'm smarter than that. You know, even animal know they exist. So I want something more. What's the achievement? But mind is just the patterns, just the algorithm of firing synapses and throwing thoughts and creating images. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. And Jane is something, good one of yours. Who wants to know? And Amarnath answers no one. And one is creating absence from presence. How funny. That's brilliant. I love it. Yes, one thing is creating absence from presence. And it really is funny. Brilliant. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, to want something, you have to believe you don't have it.

And if you are the totality, you have absolutely everything, and if you don't have this beautiful, smooth, young body, you have it in those girls there passing by. It's all you. It's all yours. You know, if you don't have youth and vitality, you do still have it. It's the same intelligence as bringing out all the answers to all the questions. Absolutely. Yeah. You think you don't have it, recognize. Michael, awesome. Amazing explanation. Thanks so much, Kat. So, oh, I think I've read that. I appreciate your contribution. I don't think it has been twice here, but thank you again. And Richard answering to Michael. And when you are on a good thing, stick to it.

As the old Mortain commercial runs. Yeah. Richard. Yes. He's a darling. Always makes us happy. Always makes us laugh. Can't wait to see you when the lockdown opens up a little bit. And Tanya, the appearance body is perfection, but there is still exercising and eating well. Nothing wrong with that. Just how this pattern is expressing. There can't be any goals of improving as goals of improving as what you are does not need improving. Enjoy the appearance. But no, you're not done wonderfully. So, yeah, and absolutely nothing wrong in honoring the crystal and keeping it clean and keeping it shiny and looking after it. Nothing wrong if it doesn't happen either.

But when it does, I think that's upper hand in the dream makes it more comfortable. And our American Julia, our neighbor America, Julia the pointer that what is happening with this. is dreaming sounds like a dream itself until you investigate closely enough. Olympians can win or lose by thousands of a second. Both past and future, including a thousandth of a second from this moment, are illusions because the imagined past and future are not what is. Yeah. Absolutely. Beautiful. Yeah, it's only now. Bob was saying today, when does it now begin? Now. When does it end? Now. And it says in one of the scriptures, a thousand years in thy sight are like yesterday when it was past, or a watch in the night.

And it lasts. Yeah, the thousandth of a second or thousandth of years is equally a thought in the mind and it appears. Now. Tanya says, Always love your elaboration and contributions, Kat. Wow. I feel like it's a Mother's Day. Thank you. There is still a sense of stickiness. Amarnath is replying to Michael. There is no good or bad. All good is bad and all bad is good. Two ends of the same stick. That's a nice take on Shakespeare. We don't become good. Good. Goodness already yours. Similarly, badness. Brilliant point. Absolutely. So where does the stickiness stand in that? Yeah. And that's a very, very good point.

You know, when you see the stickiness, you also see the non-stickiness. You know, some thoughts may be sticky. Some others may be not sticky. Because being a totality, you are the good and bad. You are the angel and devil. You are the everything. So there are sticky thoughts and non-sticky thoughts. Like, you know, if you're not following football, the thoughts of football won't be sticky. They will just pass by ignored. So yes, all is part of the appearance. And Rick, you too are so inspiring. Clarity and love and directness with no defensiveness. Wonderful examples. Oh, thank you, Rick. What an honor to have such a reflection in the dream.

Thank you. And Julia, American Julia. Truth is simple. Complexity is for twisted minds. I love it. Yes. And show me untwisted minds. Every mind loves the complexity. And I have to admit my mind loves complexity. I look at anything and I see both. They are nothing. But they're infinitely complex nothing. Just like a fractals. just like a music is exquisite jane enjoy this blessed day love you all thank you bob and kat and all love you jane yes love to all of you and thanks a million says amarnath to tanya nisargadatta maharaj says nothing is was will be wrong with me or anyone this is self-realization nothing's wrong anymore yes and tanya so much peace and love flowing the peace and love i am thank you so much for bringing clarity to the forefront beautiful meeting love you all and thank you all and thanks and love and now is eternal says amarnath more and more clarity as the mind relinquishes its hold says british julian from australia and thank you all michael to see a world in the grain of sand and a heaven in a wild flower hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour yum thank you yes thank you for sharing that beautiful and mukti who is the one noticing the stickiness you are that that's a note to close the meeting and thank you everyone again and have a wonderful day whether you are fathers as as buddhism said and i learned that from bob of course as everything every sentient being has been your father and your mother in the eternity and you have been a father and mother of every sentient being so love you all thank you