This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Well, as you all know, we say the same thing over and over. Why? Because if we start putting descriptions and different concepts on it, people might get locked into wanting to hear more concepts and ideas. But we try to keep it as simple as we can. Because what we talk about is only one essence. The one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. And what they tell you in the great mantra is, I am that. And innately you already know that, don't you? Because you say, that's the chair you're sitting on. That's the carpet on the floor. That's the tree. That's the flower.
Can't you hear? Can you hear all right? Everything is that already. And that they talk about is the one essence. It's patterning, shaping and forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. What they call God or the absolute, or the great perfection, or presence, awareness, being, knowing, loving to be, as they say in Hinduism, existence, consciousness, loving to be again. Nama Rupa, the Nama form, they say, am I, pointing out there's only the one essence. So if that's so, I can't teach you anything. And I can't tell you anything. And neither can anybody else. Because if it's all the one essence, who is there to tell you what?
If it's not divided or split up or separated. I can only point and ask you to look to where we're pointing to with the words. And see for yourself. Because you realize from that that nobody can ever teach you anything. And nobody can ever tell you anything. If it's all the one essence, who can separate it? Or what can it be separated from? They call it space-like awareness. Awareness in space. Can anyone find a center to space? Can't hear. Can you hear? Can you see it? I see what it was. That's all we do, is point towards that one essence, which they call, you can call the absolute or the great perfection, or God.
And all these concepts are words and ideas which discriminate it. And the word's not the thing. Take the word water. Can you drink that word? Can you swim in it? Can you wash in it or drown in it? You can't. Take the word fire. Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with it? You can't. So the word's not the thing. And every word you've ever spoken has been learned. You were not born with any words. The life essence, it's Patman Satan, formed that body. Appeared. And it's all there. Isn't it? All that's there is in this basic space. There's a silence or the stillness, or the emptiness, or another way you can put it is awareness.
Anybody was unaware right now. No, you say I'm aware. And they've run. It's not existing right now. No, you are existing. Anyone who's not happy to be, that's the Sachit Ananda. Well, nobody, they'd want to be dead right now. So you must be that. So you are that being that's right now. What are you searching for? If that is all there is, well, you must be searching because you've got some belief that you are separate, or a separate entity, an individual or a person. When did that come about? You realize when you investigate it, have a look. It came about when you learned words. Because the first couple of years of your life, you had no words.
Yet you were breathing. Your heart was beating. Your little child, little baby, was laughing or crying or doing different sorts of things. But you were functioning quite well without the word. Just as in this manifestation, there are many, many things out there that are not using words. The earth's rolling around the sun. The seasons are coming and going. The tides are coming in and out. We put labels on the earth, the sun, the sun and the earth. The sun and the earth. seasoning and all the rest of it. Without the word, there's still functioning, still going on. Just the same as you without the word, you're still breathing, heart's still beating, hair and fingernails growing, food's being digested.
The functioning's happening. Take the words and learn the words. What words do we learn? I. The basic first word we learn is I am. The sense of presence. Your parents tell you a little Billy or a little Johnny or a little Jane or whatever your name might be. And that's when we start to learn words. Up till that point, you haven't got any words. And like a lot of, as I say, a lot of other things in the manifestation are functioning quite well without the word. We have these human patterns which have learned words. Other animals, birds and things don't have words, but they have sounds.
A bird can have a sound which might mean there's food here or there's danger here, another sound, or calling out for a mate. And they haven't learned the words. And animals can do that too, make sounds. But these human patterns have developed the capacity of reasoning and learned words. The thing is we've taken these words to be real, not realizing that they're just vibrating patterns of energy like the song of a bird, like you pluck a guitar string. It'll make a sound. And that sound we make into a musical note. So we've learned all these language and words and that's what separated us. We learned words like I and me, and being a vibration, the sounds of vibration, the vibrations is a movement of energy and vibrates in the opposites.
So as soon as there's I, we believe it's this single entity, and there must be other than I, the opposites. And have a look at that, and have a look at this thing you call mind. See how it's functioning. It's always vibrating in the pairs of opposites. See how it's functioning. See how it's functioning. It's either good or bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad. Happy, sad, good. Pleasant, painful, yeah. Have a look at your mind and see if it functions any other way than in the individual opposites. So as soon as we got this word, the opposite must be there. So the words, believing in the words are our problem.
They can be very useful, utilized, but they can be self-destructive. But they can be self-destructive, because that's that same I concept. When we learn I, we can't do much with I or me. So add to it, I am Bob the Australian, the good fella or not so good. I'm unhappy, I'm fearful, I'm anxious, depressed, or I love this or I want that. So the discrimination goes on, and we're discriminating anything with the word. And every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been picked up along the way. It's been learned. Because look at a little child, a little baby. How many words has he got?
How many words did you have? That's why you can't remember your birth. Because you didn't have any words. And you didn't learn any words till you were about two, or somewhere around that age. Might have been a bit younger, a bit older. Well, we picked up words from our parents. So the word's not the thing. You can't drink the word water. The word fire won't burn you. So what's this word I? Saying I, we've added on to that I, I am. That's the primary sound. Which we differentiated a bit. Was the primary sound, as I say, was om. I am. And then they break it down.
And this I, we think it's separate. Not saying it's the one essence. Now, when we relate it, we relate it to this conceptual image, this image we believe is a, is I am. That's what we call a person. Where does that word person come from? Comes from ancient Lacan persona, the mask. So we've got a conceptual image of ourselves now. An image made up of thoughts, ideas, concepts. What's a concept, a mental construct? What's a mental construct? Sound. Sound. Sound. What's the sound? Words are sound. What's sound? Sound's a vibration. And a vibration is a movement of energy. So it's this life essence. It's patterning, shaping, forming, vibrating and appearing as everything.
There's still only that one life essence. It's to say we've put the label onto the I as this persona, this mask. And we've seemingly separated ourself from the totality. Set us apart. We're seeing that we're already that. And there is only one essence that the ancient text and scriptures will tell you. Only one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as everything. And it all can be broken down into that pure energy. As I say, I just broke, broken down through the sound, down to a vibrating pattern of energy. What about this body, mind? We believe it's also. We believe that's what we've taken on.
We've put all these sounds and words on it. And we're told, our parents tell us, your little Johnny or your little Billy. And it relates to that word, other words you've learnt, I am. Then you become I am Bob or I am little Johnny or I am Bill. But there's no more concept going on. But so now we believe we are this persona. This mask, a conceptual image, which is a mask, which hide our true nature, which is the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And everybody hearing that? Yeah. I have to strain to hear you. This one not working? I can hear.
Yeah. It's not very loud. No. It's a bit challenging to hear. Yeah, I'm the same. I can hear you. I can hear you. Unless we put this back a bit. Yeah, that's the thing that's not loud enough. We'll get it going eventually. I'm trying to do this one a bit further back, so it's closer. You've had it all before anyway, don't worry. Yeah. Don't worry about it too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No worries. I was trying to hold. How's that? Better? Yeah, it is working. It's fine. Like that? Yeah. It's fine, isn't it? Go on. Yeah, now I lost my way. I'm not going to start again.
Just say thank God for it. Your sona, you're up to persona. Pardon? Persona. The mask. The mask. Yeah. Anyway, We've all taken on this conceptual image and believe ourselves in this. But are you the body? Question it. That's what I say. We need to investigate these things and see for ourselves. We believe we are the body-mind. Only because our parents told us so, then our skulls reinforce it, and we start reinforcing it ourselves. And we believe I am this person, I am this body, mind, entity. But are you the body? And you say, my body, my mind. Don't you say my coat, my car, my house?
And you know damn well you're not the coat, or the car, or the house. Or maybe you're not the body either, if you investigate it. And then in question, have a look at it. What's this body made up of? They said this body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. They're the elements. Subtitles by the Amara.org community Take the air out of your body. Stop breathing. Say how long you can last without that. So that's not the body. It's a part. It's expressing and patterning as the body. Take the fire, the body temperature. It won't last too long without that. Get out of space, away from space if you can.
You can't postulate or think of anything. It could be outside of space. Take the water out of the water. Take the fire. Take the earth. What else? Anyway, all those elements can be broken down into subatomic particles. That's all the body is. A vibrating pattern of that. That intelligence energy is vibrating into all these different particles. Take this thing you call mind. Again, you say, my mind. Well, show me your mind if you can. Again, you say, my mind, my coat, my car, my house. You know, innately you know also that you're not the mind. What is mind when you break it down? Your mind is just nothing but a concept.
A thought. What's thought again? Thought's sound. What's sound? Sound is a vibration. A vibration's a pattern of energy. So it's still the same intelligence energy that's patterning, vibrating, expressing as this manifestation. And they tell you again that the manifestation is Maya. It's illusion. It's a phenomenal manifestation. And what's the definition of phenomena? The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. And then I went, only seemingly so. Appearance seems to be so. So this manifestation is Maya, as they say. It's illusionary. It's not the reality. And as they say, they call it the absolute or the great perfection. What can you add to the absolute?
You can't add anything to the absolute. It wouldn't be absolute. What can you take away from the absolute? Nothing. It wouldn't be absolute. It's the great perfection. The Buddha's called the great perfection. And they describe it as the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any of these concepts, thoughts, or ideas, or things that's going on. Not like we're trying to point out here with the, we're breaking everything down to pure, the absolute or the great perfection. It's all the one essence. It's vibrating, patterning, shaping, expressing as everything. It's all the one essence. It's vibrating, patterning, shaping, expressing as everything. Everything. So, you are not anything other than that.
So, you already are that absolute. Now, you might start to get the idea that what I believe, I'm leaving on something else. I'm separating myself from the absolute and I've got to become something. And I've gotta practice something, and see if something could become the absolute. The. The being can never be becoming. coming, and you call yourself a human being, and if you believe in a God, you'll call God the Supreme Being. What if you take that label off, Supreme, and the label human off? What are you left with? Just the pure being. Try and separate yourself from that being right now. Can you say you are not?
No, you can't negate that beingness. You can say, I am not a million times. But the very fact of saying it enables that you must be it to be able to say it. Not the word that comes out there, expressions of it, or not the body that it's in. That's where it happens, it's expressed. But the pure life energy itself. Pure life energy itself. Only that. And have a look at that. Take the life out of the body, what have you got? You've got a corpse. Now that corpse, before it starts to rot, it's got eyes, got ears, got heart, lungs, all the organs are there.
Kidneys, heart, all the organs are there. But there's no life energy expressing through it. So it's a corpse. Where does it go? It goes back into the essence where it came from. The pure intelligence. Pure natural energy. So nothing is really lost. Except the pattern, shape, and form breaks down. Just like when the cloud cools down and becomes water, or ice. The ice will melt with the heat, and the heat will evaporate the water. So it becomes the mist again, the essence again. So it's never changed its true nature. You are that pure and pure. being and knowing to be or loving to be right here right now.
So investigate and see these things for yourself or if you believe the other person you're going to get somewhere we'll carry on the search. How long have you been searching for? Most of us have been searching for a long time and you've never got the answer. Why? You're intelligent people not idiots. Maybe it might just dawn on you, where have you been looking and you realize I've been searching into my mind trying to find the answer. I've looked into that, I've looked into that. Well it might not just dawn on you if you haven't found the answer after all these searching and you're not an idiot.
It might just dawn on you or maybe we're looking in the wrong direction. Looking in the mind for the answer. And a lot of the scriptures will tell you the peace is when the mind is not. They tell you you can never get that peace of mind. It's the nature of the mind to chatter, to vibrate, to shakty or the energy going through it. You'll never get peace of mind. They tell you why. They say the peace is when the mind is not. That's why they call it the peace that passes all understanding. It means it can't be understood by the concept by our thought and never look at that.
If you ask yourself where, I've always been looking in the direction of the mind what a is there out of the mind? All we must read is the only way out of the mind is full stop. Don't go there. Let the thought be as it is but don't fix it. Not going to do it because we believe we are thinking the thought. We are the thinkers of the thought. We are the seeing. of the sights. Well you are the... the thinking is happening and the seeing is happening. But when you say, I think, what have you done? You think it's me, Bob the Australian, or this conceptual image, has become the thinker, a subject.
And the thoughts I'm thinking, this is a good thought or a bad thought, has become the object. So it's subject-object, dualism. So we're not coming from the absolute or the reality anymore. The same with the seeing. I see, you formed a subject. And I say this, I see this sight, whatever it might be, the tree and the flower, that become the object. Now that's all this manifestation that's happening, it's seemingly divided conceptually into dualism. But they say it's non-dual. It's one without a second. Not two. One without the other. Just pure intelligence energy. Being, knowing and loving to be. So I say here, start from the fact, whether you know it or not at this moment, start from the fact that you are that.
And when it comes up, I haven't got it or I haven't understood it, you go, who? You must realise then it's this conceptual image that's trying to become something and not recognising its true nature. Anyone who's not being right now, is not being right. With that life that's gone out of the body, there's a corpse. And what can a corpse do? Can't see, can't hear, can't be aware, can't do anything at all. So what must be doing it? It must be the life itself. So that is what you really are, the life, like Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.
Not talking about himself, but talking about that sense of presence. . It translates through the mind as the thought I am. Because it is, when you take that thought on, you've separated yourself from the absolute. But without that thought, have you stopped breathing? Has your heart stopped beating? Hair and fingernails stopped growing? Food stopped being digested? You give up all those thoughts when you go to sleep at night, but it's not the end of you. So that plurintelligence energy is functioning without a conceptual image at all. So the realisation comes about that I am already that essence. And if you are already that, then what do you need to do?
You need to stabilise in that, because we've believed ourselves to be this conceptual image, this separate entity, for so long, for so many years. And reinforced, been reinforced by our schools, parents, society, and everybody around us is reinforcing us. And they learn words. They point out the words, not the real. And... When you go to sleep at night, where are the words then? But is it the end of you? We must get the taste of a few of those things that have been said. You can get on quite well without the word. You are that life. You are that intelligence energy. And what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?
And look at that, you see, if you pause the thought, do you disappear? Is it the end of you? It's not. But without... Without the thoughts or the words, without putting the labels on it, or the descriptions, which can never be the described, then there's still the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the thinking, functioning, and there's still a knowing. An innate knowing. You're knowing what everything is. As they say, seeing no thing, yet it is seen. Look around the room right now. And see what... You see. You realise you're seeing everything in the room, but what if you're not waving it?
Not putting the word on it. You know you're not seeing just a homogenous mass there. There's a natural seeming separating going on. You're just seeing different patterns, shapes, and forms. But they are really no thing. Because all this manifestation is made up of things. You are a thing. I'm a thing. The tree's a thing. The flower's a thing. The tree's a thing. The earth's a thing. Which we put labels on. We discriminate those things into trees, flowers, and everything else. Can something come from no thing? Because the basic screen in which everything is appearing in it is that silence, that stillness, that emptiness, vibrating into these different patterns, shapes, and forms.
And doesn't that mean that they're capable of being divided into these patterns, shapes, and forms? Doesn't that mean that they are... Doesn't that mean that they are suffused with an innate intelligence that's enabling to pattern in all this wondrous manifestation that life is? Seemingly so, seemingly so, but we put the labels on and make that vibrating pattern into something real, including making ourselves that. And I believed in this person, this imaginary individual. But take off the imaginary individual. What are you left with? The absolute. So you don't have to try and become it, come and do anything about it, because you must drop back into it, wherever that life is there.
And even when the life is not there, there's no pattern, shape, or form to recognize it through it. It's still the life that's functioning, manifesting, and everything. So there's never been anything other than life. And life lives on life, and out of life, more life comes. So you are already that. So got any questions, any doubts, any hey, what you like it, don't like it, do what you like it. Tell us all about it. Because a few of you here have had recognition of it, tried to go to science and do it. But a lot of us, most of us, everybody has. Most of us, everybody has seen glimpses of it down to the low.
But we've never stabilized in it. Never established ourselves with that confidence, that necessary realization, or recognizing or knowing. So ask your questions, or give us what your version of it is. I have a couple of comments from online. So, oh, there's one more just coming. Hi, everyone online. We have love messages. John David sends love to everyone, especially you. And Amarnath says, greetings, being cannot become, is already pure, is quoting you. And another one, answer is not in the mind, person, also quoting you. And peace is there when the mind is not. And now we have... Just a fresh, a new comment from Tanya. It is interesting that I am that, but awkwardness and not much to say appears when with apparent others.
It is that, though, is saying, having not much to say is bad, and that unpleasant sensations arise, and the thought is not true. That thought and feeling appearing means there is something. That thought and feeling appearing means there is something. It is not just there or nothing, meaning there is a belief in separate. The separate me. Or quietness is just what is appearing. And there is nothing right or wrong about that, which seems closer to the truth. Yes, Tanya unz estas respostas bellicas, mes sabon vorcados. Pick your own questions, beautifully, whatever appears, appeals. Whether it is chatterdience. Whether it is silence. It is silence. Yes, we don't need to force it on people.
Yes. I would try not to do that, I am just usually silent. I'll hear it or something might come out and resonate with me. And then if there is no thought appearing and then there is idea that no thought is bad, that's just another thing that is appearing. That's right. Or when there is an idea appearing, oh, there is a thought, it means there is a separate me. That's just another idea. That's just another passing thought. And Amarna says, Dear loving Bob, can you speak on knower and knowner are false. Knower and known are false. Well, who is the knower? Is it the thought I am?
Me, Bob, or is that the knower? Or is there a knowing? A pure knowing, just the same as being or living. Just like digester and digesting. There is just digesting, not knowing. The duality of the knower and known, seer and seed, breather and breath, are just conceptual in the mind. None of them would exist without the action of the functioning. So there are just two ends of the stick, but there is one stick. Yeah. And we have Sherry, so simply and beautifully pointed, allowing to experience it without intellectual thoughts. Thank you. Yeah, that's the magic of the spirit. Thank you. Tanya, how do you establish yourself as that?
Still seems like I am the body, although the body appears in us, awareness. No separation between seeing, body, feeling, sensations, and that awareness. Yeah. Well, awareness is the base in which everything appears in. It's another term for God or the absolute, if you like. Anybody who is unaware right now? No, you're not unaware right now. If you're not unaware, you must be aware. He's not chewing on the cord, is he? No. No, he's playing with his foot. He'll get a big shock if he does. When you see him light up, you'll say, yes, if you're not unaware, you must be aware. Can anyone say what awareness is?
That's all you know. You know you're not unaware, so you must be. Now, we have the request from John David. Can you talk about your experience after leaving Nisargadatta and when the conviction became fear that you are the awareness? It was recognised when I heard Nisargadatta tell me that I wasn't the body or the mind. And I've heard that I'm not the body or the mind, many times before, but somehow there was something more in it, or I'd opened up more, I don't know. But I heard it. And it wasn't the same. Though for a while, I kept falling into the old trap for a time.
But it got less and less, the more it was recognised, the less and less real it became. I still say the words now, but it doesn't mean much to me at all. Just the same as when we first met. It was when we first learned the word, I am little Johnny. I didn't know much. The more and more we recognised it and heard it from other people and saw it through us, it became established in the belief that I am this person, I am this separate entity, that I couldn't be anything else, and what you're saying is bullshit. So believe that too if you want to.
I remember hearing, this is very serious, I didn't like it, I was just really confused. I was just really confused. I remember hearing Mark West talking about his meeting with, when he met you and Nisargadatta. And then he described, like, the recognition was there at that time, but there was seven or eight years after. Seven or eight years went on where the patterns would just keep consuming. The old patterns would just keep coming up. And it took him about that long to sort of really, really establish or whatever. Someone asked a question about it. Yeah, when the conviction was here. Conviction, that's it, yes. And that's just his description on it.
I don't have any convictions or anything else to say on that. Thank you. Yes, so Bob, would you elaborate on when your conviction was firm, was it straight away or did it take time for the conviction to get firm? Well, in the seeing of it, it's immediate. But then it would come, and the habits would come up now and again. But it was never the same again. Once you see something is false, you really can't believe it again. So the thing is to question it again. If it's seemingly come up, I saw through this the other day, is it true? Well, I'll have another look.
And if you have another look and question it, if it's false, the false can't stand up to investigation. It falls apart. And I'll just add for Tania, you've seen through with Tania. So the thing is whenever the thought appears, instead of listening to the content of the thought, realize the thoughts wouldn't appear if there was no consciousness or awareness. So whatever the thought is saying is a secondary sort of news. I mean, the first information that the thought conveyed by its mere appearance is that there is a space of awareness in which the thought appears. What the thought is saying is not that big of a deal.
The thought may say, oh, I am a body or I am a mind or I am a god or I am whatever. But who cares? Don't listen to it. I mean, you know, it's just as much as the functioning part comes, the body will follow instructions. But the chatter, the narrative is something that you just kind of overlook, you know. You go back. It's go back from your head to the heart of being, to the fact that that thought would not exist if you didn't, if you haven't, if you didn't exist. Yeah, the thought wouldn't show up if you didn't exist. So the existence is the number one news.
And then the secondary stuff is the content of the thought to be questioned. Because that's really the only obscuration for the, that's the only way we distract ourselves from the true nature. There is a being, existence, existence, consciousness, beliefs, whatever you want to call it. And then there is a distraction. And distraction can be a strong pain or other sensation or sight or sound or thought. Thought is just another sensation that distracts you from the awareness of being and even distracts you completely to the point that you're completely detached from the awareness of being and attached or identified with the sensation or the thought. That's when the suffering comes.
And that's when the separation starts. Separation is only believed. It doesn't have real existence. It doesn't exist until you believe it into existence, just like Santa Claus. It can't exist unless you believe it, you say it is. So if you say there is a separation, right away you will find the evidence for it. Oh look, my body, oh it's separate. From what? From air? It's not. From water? It's not. It's constantly exchanging everything, information, reactions, responses, the elements with the environment. It is not separate. But we say it is because the eyes are telling us that this frequency or this is dense and this is not dense, so there is a separation.
But there isn't. It's only believed in. If we stop believing it, we will stop finding evidence for it. And that's in every distraction, whether it is sensory or whether it is a thinking, which thought is the sensor, is the sense as well. So if you remember that you are that, you are that existence, and that existence is the base, this is the base, this is the most obvious, the most intimate, the most relatable and instantaneously experienceable fact. In fact, it's undeniable. It can't be denied. And on top of it, there is various ways the world, the world distracts you from that awareness by engaging attention with thinking and seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
But seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is kind of like a first-generation attention engagement because this is something that is happening in the immediacy, even though it is translated by the mind and by the thought. But then you have the overlay of imagination when you overlook the seeing, hearing, and you go into imagining. I'm the body, I'm this, I'm that, I shouldn't, these people should. That's imagination. That's actually redirecting the attention away from the immediacy of the senses into something that is not, into speculating. So this one only needs to be recognized because this is a habit. Nobody is guilty of doing anything wrong if that is happening.
That is happening because our parents, grandparents, everyone around us, teachers, everyone around has that habit. And that habit is supporting a functioning in certain extent. Only when exclusively, fanatically followed, it causes the solidity, solidifying that sense of separation, isolation. So it is just about the recognition. When you see that the attention is taken away by the thought, and that's all that needs to happen. The attention got sucked out through the hole of the imagination. Or the attention got distracted elsewhere. And that's it. Just seeing the movement of attention, seeing the movement of the mind is enough. Because where are you seeing from? You're already being the awareness in which the mind is moving.
The attention is moving. So you are already free from that movement of attention. You are the one, the awareness of that movement. Recognizing the thought. Recognizing sensation. Recognizing whatever it is. As the passing phenomena. As the cloud moving through the sky. You're already a sky. You see the clouds, you are the sky. You're not the cloud. Cloud cannot know itself. It has to leave itself to actually see itself as a cloud. So you're not the thought. You're not the body. You're not the sensation. You're the awareness of it. And of course, to make it a little bit more confusing, ultimately you are everything, including sensations, thoughts and body.
But not exclusively one, but collectively all of it. I think there are some other comments. So you keep it and I'll have a look. OK, so there is a comment. Amarna says, thank you. Existence is primary. Thoughts are secondary. Separation is a notion. And Tanya, thank you for the reminder that any thoughts are not reality and not to listen to them. Separation is not real. You're right. It is only thought conditioned since childhood. Seeking more insight is a distraction. Yes, seeking is always kind of distraction. Yes, insights flow when the mind is open and empty, not when it's seeking. Seeking is taking you away from the being, from the presence.
Amarna says, thinking problem is there. There itself is the primary problem. All is well. Go on, Julia. I hear the word seeking a lot. Yeah. So I think that word needs maybe more, I don't know, I would like more clarification because to me seeking is not just seeking what I am or what you are or what God is. Mm. Seeking is happiness. I'm trying to get happiness. Yeah. Whether it's seeking it in the form of a job or success or a girlfriend or a baby or getting my way or pleasure or whatever it is, that to me is also seeking. That I'm not already enough as I am.
Well, there's a seeking. Yeah, that too. . But the seeker is the problem. Yeah, that there's a me to not be enough. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. Go on. That's enough. That's it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What more could there be? Okay. So the seeking implies, so if I'm seeking a job or like seeking like fame and riches, there's implying because I'm looking for that, that there's someone here to look. Well, there's lack. There's lack. There's lack. There's someone here to lack. Yeah. That doesn't have enough. Yeah. I need something other. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. And how do you know like if someone is seeking? How would you know if someone was seeking?
Can you repeat it? Can you say it again? I would know. If someone would know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We just wanted the people who are with us online to hear it. Yeah. One who's doing a seeking would know. I would know what anyone is seeking. But if someone was doing a seeking would know, oh, I'm seeking. Yeah. I haven't got this. I'm looking for it. Yeah. I think that's a good distinction because there is a natural sort of an action, the movement. Like if you look at the animals in nature, they're looking for food.
But there is no sense of a separate seeker or they're looking for partner. But there is no sense of a seeker. sense of a seeker focusing on the luck and having the poor me sort of an attitude. So the natural movement towards pleasure and avoiding pain is a part of survival instinct. But the narrative creates the seeker, the deficient me that needs something to complete itself. You know, I'm not enough, I need to complete myself. So yes, you... Not only the seeker, but the thinker, the feeler, the taster, the toucher, the smeller. Yeah, yes. Somebody rely on a samey person. There are no seekers. That's the narrative, yes.
And Oxy. Go on, say it, Julian. I just said there are no seekers. Nothing. It's so important. It's alright. Yeah. Tech problems today. Tech challenges. Anyone? Well, the stabilising... Can you pass that down? Pass that down, please. What? What Bob mentioned about stabilising or the conviction stage, you could see that as a form of seeking, you know, like I'm not there yet. Yes. And then that just keeps you kind of, you know, in that trap. Could you speak about that more, Bob? You know, that idea of stabilising that you mentioned. Yeah. Go on stabilising. Go on stabilising. If you're seeking or looking or stabilising, it's a belief.
There is somebody to be stabilised or think or see, right? And the belief is the problem. The dictionary definition of belief is that which... Purely. Yeah, that which is an unaccepted... What is it? Yeah, the definition of belief is the unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence... Of reason. Of reason, yeah. ...of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Excuse me. Now, you either believe something or you know it. Do you know that you are or do you believe that you are? Mm. Isn't there a knowing that I am? If I'm believing that I am, when? How? We have another comment here from Julia.
Hm. Yes, she says, Well, that's not... There's another comment. The, the question is the same as the previous one. Mm. Uh-huh. She says, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And, uh, are you... Uh-huh. And the idea of that evolution of consciousness, shift from fear to love, oh my God, it's just so beautifully romantic. But nothing ever happened. And nothing needs to change. Nothing needs to be saved, fixed. The two ends of the one stick is still the same thing, but different translations on each end. It's the recognition that nothing is wrong rather than fixing the world. But I love that. I love that story. Now, Kiran, is seeking a clever way to keep mind alive as in if I'm seeking constantly, I'm reinforcing the concept of time as seeking can only exist in time?
Beautiful point, Kiran. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, it all seems to be taking place in time, but is there such a thing as time? Only if you think about it. Yeah. And seeker and seeking are identical at all. They're cold. Just a bit. I'm all right, though. There are a couple of blankets there. That's okay. And also, John David says, non-conceptual awareness, full stop. You are not the body-mind. Come back to the basics of the teachings. Sailor Bob is the last stop. No need to compare or intellectualize. There is... Oops. One more line. Okay. You are no thing. The mind can't grasp it because this is a thing.
Don't leave until all doubts are cleared. Thank you, Bob, for all your love and patience with me over the years. Love ya. Love ya, Diamond. John. Amarnath. Unless we forget our self-seeking, nothing can happen. So why to forget? What are you without thought or efforts? That's Amarnath calling Sailor Bob. And... Julia is laughing. Yeah. So that's for now. Please. Oh, no. That's okay. I can speak now. But... I will... I mean, nothing important to say. But, like, just what's coming up is... As I was watching Bob just speak and... To be honest, like, I'm not really, like, really efforting to listen. I'm just, like, letting it wash over me and...
Being okay with that I'm a bit, you know, jiggly and whatnot. And, like, as I was watching Bob, like, I was seeing him smile and, like, that in itself was, like, just beneath the words and what he was saying was almost like... I wanted to just celebrate. Like, celebrate what he was experiencing. And... That in itself brought me to an experience of being present. Being present with what he was saying. Like, I don't really know exactly what he was saying. Or, like, really fully understand it intellectually. But when I dropped out of that need to try and, like, you know, really, like, oh, like, really listen and, like, I've got to understand this and go home and then analyze and think about it.
And I'll just be, like, oh, he's here and he's speaking and he's smiling and everyone's like... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's laughing and it's amazing. And, yeah, somehow that kind of brings you back to, you know, there's no need to be, like, is it the seeking? Is it that? Is it this? Is it that? Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just, like, all still... It's all still in the mind and, like, here we are also trying to figure it out. Like, should we do this? But all of us know. Like, all of us actually innately know exactly what Bob is saying. Absolutely. Like, we all understand it's all there.
And when we just, like, oh... It unlocks the mind. Fuck! And then we go in and then it's, like, you can just see, like, everyone smiling and laughing and it's beautiful and magnificent. And I think that's why we're all here, right? Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So I just... I feel like celebrating all of you. Like, just, like, you know... It's gorgeous. It resonates. It does. It resonates. That's innately you know it already. It stirs a recognition of it. It stirs it up and take it from there. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the best way of listening. That's the listening with relaxed head, with just...
From the heart. You're totally responding to the energy, to the emotion, to the smile. This is it. I mean, gosh, you may spare yourself years of that intellectual turmoil when you try to grasp something that can't be grasped. Like Bob is saying, and it is really the only thing, there is only one thing about the whole non-duality that can be understood by the mind. And that one thing is that it can't be understood. It can't be understood by the mind. Yes. If you get that, stop trying. There is no need to seek. And then that flowing with the energy happens from the heart. That's the beautiful.
But yeah, a lot of us, if not most, unfortunately go through the round way, you know, through the head and back to the heart. And that's okay, right? Yeah. Like, it's totally okay. That's how life has it. The mind has a purpose and it's there for a reason, but it's just like, eh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. It's just like, oh, it's not there. Yeah. It's just like, oh, okay. The mind's there, like, woohoo it's back.
It's, you know, it's doing its thing. It's analyzing and that's how our world works today. Like we have to analyze stuff. We have to figure out problems. We have to do our daily tasks and all of that. So there is a need for the mind. But when, you know, you don't get energy, you know, it's the energy that tells you, well, you know, your mind is like, okay, I'm going to do it. What do you have in your hands? What do you have in your head? Like, okay, I'm going to do this. Like, I'm going to do that. And then the energy will go away.
that's how our world works today like we have to analyze stuff we have to figure out problems we have to do our daily tasks and all that so there is a need for the mind um but when you know you just recognize like oh the mind is here it's trying to analyze woohoo drop down and then like here we are like just present and i think as well like just something i'm noticing with the space and the energy is like i think we're so taught in the society to try so hard like to effort so hard like ah someone's speaking intellectually even in schools we're taught have to really listen like use my mind try and figure out this try and understand and even in our body language all of us are like so strict like tension and tight but it's like ah like follow the impulse to be like wow you feel whatever's happening and like express that like move the body or you know maybe bob says something that really resonates with you deep and you feel a shiver it's like oh like express that you know let the body move let the body do its thing as well as the you know awareness yeah that's all yeah too much talking no it's wonderful wonderful one no it's a wonderful way of expressing non-resistance you know don't resist whatever's coming up like really be the space in the space if the energy is moving through you space doesn't object to it it lets it move so that's the path of non-resistance just really flowing with with life that's uh that's the effortless being yeah beautifully said thank you i think we can have we have something else on on the screen there and as sherry says i could feel that celebration wonderful mind equals story says amarnath there is no one in the story and truth is the simplest of simple mind is complex amarnath says absolutely and auto when the dance and dancer become one that's that's it's only that's left yeah they don't even need to become one they actually are they don't even need to become one they actually are they don't even need to become one they are they don't even need to become one they are they just it's it's a recognition really it's like really they just it's it's a recognition really it's like really they just it's it's a recognition really it's like really nothing needs to happen nothing needs to happen nothing needs to happen recognition is a dawning like recognition is a dawning like recognition is a dawning like yeah like ah right yeah like ah right yeah like ah right oh okay i thought it's a monday i have to oh okay i thought it's a monday i have to oh okay i thought it's a monday i have to rush to work to school and then rush to work to school and then rush to work to school and then no it's sunday i can sleep in that's no it's sunday i can sleep in that's no it's sunday i can sleep in that's the easiest thing for the quiet and the open mind because when the mind is quiet and open the heart comes forth and the obviousness of being is undeniable but when the when habitually attention goes to the distraction all the time then the most obvious is overlooked and that's the only thing is just being overlooked still nothing wrong is still how life has it but yeah it can be just much simpler when when when you are the space for the flow for the flow of thinking feeling seeing hearing whatever acting moving when they say from the heart people mistakenly think they're talking about the physical physical heart the sensation is around the way the heart is and the family minutes it's not the heart itself it's that life essence that's being contacted heart meaning the core of your being the center of the spirit it's where the spiritual essence is yeah and you'll say it was heartfelt there was this sensation or feeling in the core apparently heart has pretty complicated nervous system there too and some but that's just an echo body is just an image of the mind vehicle of expression it was all one it's all heartfelt anymore I think I'll just add one more point.
Oh, please please. don't just let it arrive at front of the I think as well we kind of can't deny like, so we're speaking about this very kind. of literal factual understanding of reality and like how things are working and the heart and everything but I think we also can't deny that like life And why we're here all these night miniature But can you give us a realiscense? їх do you talk about all of these things which come and introduce you cause we're here and where we came from like everything is still a mystery and I think when you invite that into your being like wow like there is mystery we actually don't fully understand everything and how magnificent is that like how magnificent because if we freaking knew everything then fuck why would we want to be here like what would be the point like oh nothing to do we know everything we know why we're here we know no purpose nothing so it's like wow like to invite that that thing of like wow this is a mystery like some of this I don't know some of these I will never figure out with my mind but like wow that's amazing that's beautiful and who knows what's gonna happen like and that's beautiful too there is only love Jane is saying and auto you know more about yourself in the unknown and Julia Jane yes true behind all fear is love yeah Nisargadatta has a nice comment about what is fear but love for protection for safety fear is kind of almost a pure form of love like I don't want anything bad to happen to me I care I love and Estelle oh yeah just pointing the sound was off but I think I think the sound is back on again I hope so yes that's all and O'Toole says you know more about yourself in the unknown yeah that's a different knowing then everything you ever need to know is the fact of your own existence and that one is undeniable that on that one is known regardless of the mind that is known even when you get Alzheimer or brain damage and it doesn't depend on the computer it doesn't depend on the IQ or EQ or any of other qualification capacities of the of the machinery yesterday is history but tomorrow is my story yesterday was history history there's no yesterday and no tomorrow so where are all the stories going David you have any questions no at the moment that's pretty good aww David always has good questions that really brings us up into the anyone else any questions or comments or I have a related question please oh no I don't think he wants to be on camera no it's not needed no worries I'll put it out there but if there's jelly beans why isn't there peanut beans because that's the if there are jelly beans I don't know peanut beans that's the call for your mission a purpose in life in life design one once it's like a thing being all week it's been bothering me really if there are jelly beans why are there no peanut beans it's quite odd really yeah that would be a wonderful way of contributing to the pleasures of humanities create the peanut beans we have Amarna saying fear is a fear of the future I'm not saying fear is a fear of the future but I'm saying fear is a fear of the future I'm not saying fear is a fear of the future I'm not saying fear is a fear of the future I'm not saying fear is a fear of the future I'm not saying fear of the future and I'm saying fear is a heat of the future I'm not saying that fear is a fear of the future I'm just saying you need to have an act team it is so Ouch oh my god this doesn't end immediately her hair and her.
What the. am jack The hair will grow and the eye and your принципе? is in love it's love two ends of one stick and John David says eternity is in love with the productions of time. That's a quote from William Blake androws. No, you can't have enough of the beautiful love heartfelt energy. But I don't want to force it. If it comes, it comes. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe George needs something to say. I hope not. I'm dying now. You're not going for lunch? No, I'm not. I think so. I'm going to go play soccer. George, I'm going to go with you. Good luck with soccer. He'll say something.
Yes. Is that okay? Okay. Oh, it was just clipped onto this. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. So what I was going to say is I noticed I worked for a time in the corporate sector. And you were talking about our minds and how we need to use our minds. And sometimes because there's always problems to solve. And I was writing quite complicated procedures in the workplace. And I didn't really care about the job. I didn't want to be in the corporate sector. You know, I had a feeling I needed to be elsewhere. And what I did is I actually stopped worrying completely about the work.
And I noticed that every single project I did still had that high level of, you know, what, excellence. Because I was, I was pretty particular about the way I did my work. I didn't want to leave any holes in the procedure. And I noticed that actually, I was. I wasn't the one thinking. Right. Everything was still doing itself. And there was no, there was no me having to make an effort to do that procedure and have it perfect like it always had been. So I think it's important to recognize that even the thinking is not you that's doing the thinking. You know, even in that analytical, productive way.
And even, say, for example, when you're trying to work out what am I going to do next? You know, should I? Should I do this? Should I do that? And I like that because Bob has said that once before where, you know, when the solution is going to come, it comes. That's there. It's right there. There was no need to go through all that angst and, oh, my God, I'm never going to know what I'm going to do, you know, because bang. And that's what I noticed with working in the corporate sector, because I didn't care. I noticed that I didn't have to go through that initial angsty period.
Oh, my God, will I be able to do this? This is a different project. I've never done a project like this before. And so it just kind of just evolved. And the ideas that needed to arise arose and the solution came. And, you know, because it had always come. I had always been good at that job. So just that idea of resigning and letting go and just trusting, if you like, you know, and not wanting things to be different to how they are. You know, that sort of just riding the wave that raises edge. That idea. That is beautiful. And, yeah, go on. I'm just throwing in that I once heard another non-duality speaker use the expression that he was not management material.
And definitely this, whatever this is, is not management material. I'm more interested in non-duality talks than managing anything. And yet I've been thrown into being. I'm a manager. Have to make very corporate decisions. So I heard you, I think, saying about a week ago, you know, something like right thoughts will show up. Yeah. I should have hoped that's true. Because the right thought might be, well, I just been poor for the rest of my life or whatever. You know what I mean? Because the decision shows up, that might be the right thought. And that's like, no! I don't want that to be the right thought.
And you never know. Look, the greatest tragedies sometimes turns to the greatest blessings, too. Yeah. You can't really say, oh. Yeah. And also, you actually had quite a few clear decisions already made that have shown up in your situation. Everything is perfectly resolved in the outborn mind. Nature resolves itself. Mm-hmm. And everyone is being lived. And yes, thoughts. This is beautiful aspect what Arety was just saying. That, you know, there is certain, like, when you have the skill, there is an unconscious competence of that skill after its skill is mastered. Doesn't need the narrative. Narrative actually disturbs it. When you drive the car, if you would be telling yourself, okay, now I'm going to change the gear.
Now I'm going to apply the, you wouldn't be able to drive. So that competence is actually carrying on. Just like the breathing or heartbeat. A lot of actions. Are just, you are being lived. And the thinking and decisions, they also arrive. And yes, if you are conditioned in a way to always find someone who will beat you up and then you change your partners and they all abusive. Yes, obviously there is a conditioning. I'm not talking about you. You have a beautiful husband, one for life. But that's just sometimes the skill is not mastered. And on autopilot, we commit the same mistakes. We re-traumatize ourselves because that's how the body is conditioned.
And then decisions are being wrong. You know, like if you have the husband that beats you up and then you divorce him, another one is sweet for two years and then it beats you up and you divorce him and the third one and the fourth one. And it always happens the same way. Then yes, you are still being cleaved. But the pattern like, you know, the pattern is kind of causing more harm than pleasure. But that's still life doing it. I'm just saying his life in this moment is lately. Not this. Because it's all a story. But, you know, life has been requiring that I drive the car without lessons, without driving lessons or experience.
Yes. You know, yes. There you go. Just get behind the wheel and wing it. Yeah. Yeah. A little scary. That's all. Sorry. Doesn't always have to be good. Leaving it as it is, you know, it'll change. And it's fine. Nobody's going to do it. It's all the same. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. If you try to put it in the right place, if you try to put it into its opposite, and the thing that you might have dreaded happening, that does happen, then it'll turn itself around somewhere if you leave it as it is. That's happened to this. My life for many times.
It's all been taken away. And it's all turned around and come back again. And it's still going on today. But instead of worrying about it and being concerned about it, just leave it as it is. And it rights itself. the way you think it should. The way you think it would, wouldn't have been the right way anyway. Like I was an alcoholic. I didn't set out to be an alcoholic. And I got into a lot of trouble and a lot of bad situations. And it was my wonder what this was all going to be. But that's what turned me to this stuff. And things happened there too, when it suddenly moved away from where I could be talking to people.
When we got to the farm, had a drought, a flood, a drought and a flood, it was all lost at all again. But I came back in, was able to talk to people and people were starting to hear. Now the latest thing's going on, I've had a knee operation, can hardly walk around anymore. We'll see how that's going to work out. Might lose the life, who knows? Might turn around. But it resolves itself. Do you want to answer that? Sure. Yeah, see what you've got. But what you're saying about the mind and its involvement and management and Julia. And it's like there's this conviction or something happens where you stop paying that attention, that process, and it starts to drop.
And then there's this, we talked about mystery and enchantment. When in the unknowing, the enchantment and the mystery is magnificent. It's the dropping of that pattern of believing that there's a thought or a risk. And life unfolds in a miraculous way that's totally, you're always falling in the unknowing, constantly. You have no idea what's happening next, but there's a wonderful love for that not knowing and the next thing and the next thing. And then whatever the hell it is, good, bad, it doesn't make any bloody difference in the world because there's just, this goes back to even the basics of such. And under like, you know, being and loving to be and just loving to watch the show reveal and unravel itself without the sense of the me or a thought saying, this is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong.
There's none of that. And even in corporate decisions and even in really intellectual, you find there's a stillness and then the right, or not the right, the response just appears. And it doesn't really appear to anyone in particular. It's just an appearance of a response, driving the car. Like you said, there's no thought to drive a car. It's just, no, there's no thought. There's no thought required to live life. Life is being lived as you're saying. That's just fantastic. That's beautiful. And that's all. That's beautiful. There was a Christian mystic, I forget what his name was, and wrote the book, The Cloud of Unknowing. And in that unknowing, this is the attitude.
This is the open hearted, open-minded attitude where you actually really are the space. You are the, open space for whatever show up to show up. If the wrong, so-called wrong decision shows up, or decisions will always show up, whatever has been conditioned by the environment, inner environment, outer environment, whatever, something will show up. Now, if the judgment will come that this was not ideal, something better or something different should have happened, that judgment is part of the landscape. And if you are the space in which that landscape presents itself, you are just like, Dean was saying, that open, curious attitude of the mystic, like, whoa, oh my gosh, what else is gonna present itself?
Magnificent. Even though it may be, like Bob was saying, losing everything. They lost all the money, farm, floods, fires, ended up on the streets almost. Or, you know, like this thing happens. We ended up in debt right now, and a big one. And so what? I mean, gosh, this is how life is unfolding. At least we free, could have been worse. So, yeah. And just having that, you know, having that open attitude to, okay, there is pain, there is pleasure, there is joy, there is sadness, there is day, there is night, there is winter, there is summer. Oh, what's gonna happen next? Yeah, I'm curious, I'm open, whatever.
Let's life play out whatever it wants. Thy will is my will. I'm one with life. So whatever life throws at me is actually me throwing at me. I don't object to it. I don't object to anything. Although I would prefer if this one wasn't in pain, and I don't object to having those things. I don't object to having that preference either. It is what it is. It is what it is, yes. And it's not in pain all the time, otherwise he wouldn't be aware of the pain. Pain would be filtered out. It always changes, even that. I think we have some thing here. Okay, I'll just see if there is anything else.
Relinquish the controller. Yeah. Just to wrap it up. Yeah. Beautifully said, Armanath. John David says to Armanath. And thank you, whoopsie. And now, what is always perfect? What is, is always perfect, says Otho, that's right. Relinquish the controller for there is no controller. The mind needs to know only. That's right, Julia. And Jasmine, do you have any tips on how to follow, into the not knowing how to fall into just recognize you're already in it yeah because if you absolutely honest the one thing that you know only one that you know for certain experientially is that you are who you are what you are where you are they all concepts they all ideas images just like the dream you you are in the dream and you think you know where you are because your mind is kind of bringing images from the past and comparing it and sometimes i wake up sometimes i have five six dreams to write down and i have someone ah was it that girlfriend of mine no it was kind of my sister no it was half of each because that's how brain is recognizing the image in the dream it was someone completely new we don't know we don't know where we are who we are where we going where we come from we already don't know that we only have beliefs about it just just yeah being completely honest you realize that the only thing you know is that you are did you want to add something no just you are the absolute that's all there is yeah that's that's the whole core of the whole teaching it's like there that's the core of the whole teaching like it's just there in it it's just very simple like it's a sense of presence and i think all the teachers that they're really pointing you back to recognize the sense of presence which is innately just constantly there like it's can't you not be there and and i think it's like the attention something happens and the sense of presence becomes more prominent and and it reveals itself to itself as itself because that's all there really is and everything else is just an overlay of stuff absolutely yeah i have only a couple of comments and that is uh yeah that is from tanya thank you so much all is well and is quiet now so stop listening to this meeting good love you all and then amanath already that already in the best tip from cut but mind deny this i think that's it we are on the ball thank you thank you everyone love you all