When thought drops away... Sailor Bob, Kat Adamson - nonduality on 13th June 2021

Now we've got the idea of spiritual, there is God which we need to realise and become enlightened. Now there are people all over the world, down through the ages, who have had that concept or belief or idea, different traditions and different religions, and the ones that understand and recognise, but that is all there is. That's what's been grasped from all the traditions when they pointed it out. The millions of people who have come and gone, how many people have recognised or realised their true nature, understand and don't care and go along their merry way? The majority of them have some belief in a higher power or a higher power.

And have the concept or idea they need to become that. And they practise all sorts of things to try and become that. But out of the millions there's only a few that recognise that they are that. And they're the ones that will tell you, and in all the great traditions there will always be somebody that you don't. The search is the problem. What you are seeking you already are. We've believed it so hard, we do all these practices and disciplines and religions and do all sorts of things to ourselves, not recognising our true nature. Which is simply pointed out, the simplicity of it, is pointed out in all the great traditions.

All those that have really understood that you are that already. And that's what we're looking for. In many ways. It's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. Which they call, I could have got the label God on it, or reality, or the great perfection, or the absolute, or pure awareness, non-conceptual ever fresh presence awareness. Simply this and nothing else. And it's the same for everyone. And that's exactly what we're looking for. How is it that we're looking for the true God? How do we find that God? How do we find the true God? How do we find the true God?

How do we find the true God? How do we find the true God? Well, there's a tale that Muktananda used to tell about the seeker that goes to, that's heard about this guru and he goes to see him and he's been seeing lots of gurus over the period of time. And the search has gone on taking from one to another. And he goes to this guru and he says, the guru asks him, what are you here for? And he says, I want to know God, I want to find God. And the guru says, well where have you been? Guru asked him, what are you here for?

And he says, I want to know God. I want to find God. And the guru says, right, where have you been? Well, I've seen, been to this guru down the road and others are gurus. And the guru says to him, what did they tell you? And he said, thou art that, I am that. And he says, you want to find God? And they've told you that. And he realized that this bloke needs a bit of a jolt. So he says, you'll have to serve me for 12 years. Serve me faithfully and truly for 12 years. And then I'll let you know. Give it to you.

And he says, anything, I'll do anything to find God. So he called the ashram manager over and he says, what job have we got left? Well, he says, well, the only thing we've got left is prayer. And he says, well, we're picking up the cow shit. And the guru said to him, well, that's your job. And he says, okay, I'll do it. So he picked up cow shit for 12 years, served him faithfully. And at the end of 12 years, he came to him and he said, well, he says, I've served your faith for 12 years, done all you've asked me to do. Now tell me the truth.

And the priest points a finger to him and he says, thou art that. And everybody laughed at that joke. And he says, it's a great joke. Not realizing all those people in the ashram, including myself, that's what we were doing. We were picking up all these tasks and all the rest of the chanting, meditating, reading scriptures, and doing all sorts of things. To tell him, not realizing that I was already that. And the seeking, the search, was what was keeping me from seeing. And I did that. I was in the book of Nanda's ashram for a few years, following him. And finally, in India, from his ashram, I learned about Desargadatta, another teacher.

And like the people down the road, he said, where have you been? And I've seen, I mean, the teaching, I've been listening to Muktananda for years, following him, meditating, doing a mantra. And I've had many great experiences. I believe I've been getting closer to it. Desargadatta says, well, what have you found? I said, I've learned many things, but I still haven't understood the truth. Well, he says, are you the body? And are you the mind? And he says, have a look. I had a look. I saw this time that I wasn't the body. I wasn't the mind. And I'd heard that many times and looked into it many times, but never ever saw it.

At this time, I did see it. And that was the end of the search. But it didn't stop the living from going on. But it wasn't the same. When the old habit patterns came up, instead of being locked into them, it had come up, hang on a minute, you heard what Desargadatta, you heard what Desargadatta was saying. You're not the body and you're not the mind. It's your body, my body, my mind. And who's the me or the mind that's seemingly taken delivery of it? And realize it was just another thought, another concept. Concept was like everything else was taken delivery of and the thought, I am.

The primary thought. The sense of being. The sense of presence. Translates as the thought. So in this appearance of the body-mind, it was my body, my mind. But then who was the me? Who was the mind? It was me. Bob, the Australian, the good fellow. The fellow having a bad trot, or the unhappy fellow, the angry fellow. My body, my mind. And who was this me or mind? I believe it was this person. I believe it was this person. This separate entity, this individual. But then have a look. But then have a look. What about my coat, my car, my house? What about my coat, my car, my house?

I wasn't the coat. I wasn't the car. I wasn't the house. I wasn't the car. I wasn't the house. It was me or mine? Well, what's this body? Maybe I'm not the body either. Maybe I'm not the body either. It's my body. If I'm not the house, the car or the coat, the body is just another thing. and body is just another name. Mind, show me my mind. What is your mind? What is this me that I believe myself to be? And it was another concept also, based on that primary thought that came about when I was a little child. My parents told you, you are Bob.

And they said, that's what you are. And I have that, and I translate that as I am. And I am is the primary thought, the sense of presence of primary words that have understood I or me. I am seeing, I am thinking, I am hearing, I am tasting, I am touching, I am fearful, I am anxious. I or me, what's this I? Isn't it just another word or another concept? Am I the word? And where did I begin? And I realized, as far as I knew, that was the beginning of me. That word, I am. When the parents told me I was Bob. And I've learned words like I or me.

So now I planted this I onto this image of Bob. And this Bob was the conceptual image I had about myself, the person, the mask, the word made up of concepts, ideas. And looking at some of the things I read and understood, or hadn't understood before, but hadn't recognized, and go to one of the main ones in the Bible. In the beginning was the word. I didn't begin until I'd picked up this word, I or me. And yet, I was living for some time before that. Didn't have any words and didn't know anything about it. And it goes on to say, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God.

In other words, if the word is God, and God is all there is, that word is a label I have for this godliness, so-called godliness. All things were made by him, by the word. And looking around and seeing that the tree, the flower, the space, everything we put words on, everything I could ever label or name, was named by the word. There was nothing made that was made, without the word. I got some questions there. No, it's just a quick comment, few words. So there is, I'll probably go forward, hear me better. It's really funny, so I'll just interrupt and we'll go back to the spiel.

Hi everyone. There is a comment from Julia. When you were talking about Nisargadatta, who, you know, you came from Muktananda, she says, thankfully he didn't make you shovel shit. He did. He did. He's shoveling for Muktananda, isn't he? Yeah. But then we have Caroline saying, what's wrong with shoveling shit? She's laughing. And Julia says, Caroline, apart from the smell, nothing. Even shit is nothing without the salt. Back to the spiel. Who was the smeller? The smeller, that's the point. Yes. Who was the smeller? Can a thought smell? Can label it a smell? Beautiful. But what can a thought do? And so from that, I learned that all the thoughts, all the words, they are very useful in the manifestation.

And believing that I was this entity, this conceptual mental construct, the person, person, is another word. From the ancient language, the Latin language, persona, the mask. So all the thought was, or the word, was a mask, a concept, a mental construct. That's what a concept is. And what's a concept? It's a thought. A word. What's a thought? A thought is sound. Subtly, it's a vibration. Vibration is a sound, a noise, word. And the vibration is a movement of energy. Just like these words are now, they're vibrating, aren't they? They're making sound. The sound being a car just went by, that was making a sound too, coming from the motor.

But the car itself is not saying, I am a car. It hasn't got that intelligence. It's not imbued with that intelligence. The intelligence that went into the making of the car came from the human patterns, shapes, and forms, which the words are coming from. Because it's all expressions of that innate intelligence. The fact of being is the knowing of that being. Knowing is a vibration. So it's intelligence that's knowing the being. Now, to say, I am, that's being, isn't it? We reckon, I am. So the being has been given the label now, instead of saying, it's pure being. It's been given the label. And realize we put labels or words on everything and get lost in the word.

Now, without the word, when I say, start from the fact that you are already that, and the search itself becomes a problem. And that's what I've been doing, even before I knew what I was looking for. We're searching to become this, become that, because. Yeah. There was a sense of dissatisfaction here. We've got to go a little bit further. Got to find something. The underlying knowing was, there's a little bit more to it than this. But the sad thing was, we learnt words and putting words on everything. And this thing we call mind, we were trying to work it out with the word, with the mind.

Trying to be clear. How to become instead of recognize the beingness. And the only way we knew how to seemingly become was to put more labels, more words, discriminated. And it was very successful in a lot of things in our thinking, and to admit the invention, and working out of so many things using this conceptual image, we call the mind. Which is very useful. Yeah. But the answer to that question is, a little bit different. Yeah. that the life itself was not, could not be found in the mind. Why not? Well, it's just that mind itself, or life itself, is already that. Nobody can find life when you are the life.

Is it necessary to find it? Or it mightn't be, but it is necessary to recognise I am that life. I already am. That I am that translates, is a thought translating that sense of presence. It is the sense of presence itself. Presence is right here, right now. Not the past, or not the future, but pre-sense. Before any thoughts, concepts, or ideas, or labour, which is the past, or not the future, or not the future, the sensations are just thoughts being labelled, is the reality. The beingness, the awareness, the knowingness. The existence, as they tell another name. Existence. Aren't you existing right now? Isn't there existence where you are?

Looking out there, isn't there existence all around you? Or appearing so? Everything is appearing to be. What can be added to it? If it is absolute, they call it absolute. What does absolute mean? Another word we've learnt. Meaning it's absolutely a totality. Nothing can be added to it. Nothing taken away. Or as Wood has put it, the great perfection. What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. So, and that's what we're seeking for, the great perfection. And they tell us that the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. The ones that you already pointed out, it's already that. And the great mantra is, I am that.

What is that? Well, when you look at it, you realise that every so-called thing you see out there is that. Appearing as other than what it is. The pure essence. The one essence intelligence. Energy, patterning, shaping and forming. Appearing as everything. We're taking the appearance, the vibration, and separating it. That's the chair. That's the table. That's you. That's me. That's the sky. Everything is already that. But we're putting the labels on it to deal with some sense of discrimination. Because it appears to be separate. It appears to be different. Have a look out there and see what's outside or what's inside the room. All the different things appearing to be there.

Separate any of it if you can. It's not how it appears to be. Because there's any of it appearing outside of the cognising, what they call the cognising emptiness. The knowing emptiness. The silence. The stillness. The space. The screen. All different labels. We put on it. Space. Emptiness. Silence. Stillness. Screen. They're all labels which try to discriminate it again. But the knowing thing. They call it the cognising emptiness. The emptiness. Emptiness means there are no pattern, shapes and forms that are real within it. It's appearing in that silence, that stillness, that so-called emptiness which we put labels on. Which is no thing. Now when you look at all the manifestation you'll see it's all things.

You are a thing. I am a thing. The chair you're sitting on is a thing. The room you're in is a thing. Everything is a thing. Yet the ancients will point it out when they recognize, the ones that have recognized and known it and tell you it's no thing. No substance. No separation. It's emptiness. It's that emptiness. That no thing. Appearing as something. Appearing. What's appearance? Appearance is a seemingly so. They call it the noumenon, the unmanifest. Appearing as the manifest. Or a phenomenal manifestation. Definition of phenomena. Another word we've learned. There's a definition in it. It means that. Which appears to be. A phenomenal appearance.

And we say, have you just seen it? You and I are appearances only. Seemingly so. Seemingly real. Seemingly substantial. You can grasp that body. Same solid and substantial. You can pinch it. You can punch it. It'll feel sensations and all the rest of it. It'll feel sensations and all the rest of it. It'll feel sensations and all the rest of it. All appears to be seemingly real. But what's it appearing in? And the pattern, shape and form it's appearing in. And saying it's seemingly real. That's appearance only. Also. Can some thing come from no thing? Can some thing come from no thing? Can't come from no thing.

So when they tell us it's all no thing. So when they tell us it's all no thing. Appearing as something. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Take the appearance to be real. Take the appearance to be real. Though it might be seemingly real. You can take it to be real. It's not going to hurt you. You're going to be taking it for real for a long time. But the realisation that it's only appearing to be real. But the realisation that it's only appearing to be real. But the realisation that it's only appearing to be real. You're no longer bound by it.

We take a lot of things to be real. When you investigate them. The fact is that the false can not stand up to investigation. The fact is that the false can not stand up to investigation. The fact is that the false can not stand up to investigation. Using the analogy of the blue sea, the water is appearing to be blue, the ocean appears to be blue. Go down and get a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You'll see the water is not blue. The blue sky, space, when you look further out, appears to be blue. Is there any blueness in the room you are in?

That's you're in space. It's not. The water in a mirage. Driving along and what appears to be water on the road, you drive up to it and it disappears. It only seems a rainbow. A rainbow appears to be in the sky. Colours appear to be in the sky. They seem to be real. But if they're real, why aren't they always there? They're not. When you investigate it, it's the sun shining through the mist. Misty rain. And appears on the background, the space like empty background. In the seeming distance of it, appears to be blue. It all reflects. These things seemingly reflect in it and appear to be real.

The appearance is locked in the appearance. Living in the appearance, as appearance, not known. There's going to be problems. But in the knowing of the truth, and they tell you. It's another word. We've learnt truth. And they say the truth, the false, cannot stand up to investigation. And so know the truth and the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You're free from the belief that you are this separate entity. This person. Where's the clock, sweet? You are this individual. This manifestation. But in recognizing it, looking at it in this different way to what I was brought up to believe and all the rest of it, seeing it for myself and investigating it, I see that what I am is what they say I am.

I am that. One essence. There is nothing separate in it. It is the one essence. And it is appearing in that space-like awareness. On that empty screen. The screen is empty. So what can appear in it? Can something come from nothing? It can't. Though it appears. And I've got a mirror in the room here. You've probably got mirrors in your place too. And that mirror, when I look into it, is totally full of reflections. They appear as images. Images in the mirror. If I go up to the mirror, I can't get one reflection or one image out of it. All I can do is grab the glass.

And that glass is clear. But what we call the mirror, it's not clear anymore because it's got a back painted onto it. A background. Just the same as the background is the blue sky. The rainbow appears in it when it shines through it. But the blue sky, the sky is empty. Though it's appearing to be blue, it's got no colour in it whatsoever. So all those reflections that appear in a mirror seeming real. But they can't say they're not there. But I can see my face in the mirror. Or what I believe to be my face. And that's the only reason I can see what I believe to be my face.

I can see what it's like because I can't see my own face. Can you see yours? Somebody else can see your face. And they might have a different concept about it than what you see in the mirror. Or do you have the concept you have about yourself? So all this manifestation is a conceptual image. Made up of concepts, ideas. Knowing the truth, what's the truth? And seeing the reality, the absoluteness of it. Not taking on board, conceptualising. Just relaxing into it and letting it be. And seeing the wondrous way it changes. Constantly transient, constantly vibrating. That energy which you can't see is constantly vibrating. And vibrates into different patterns, shapes and forms.

Which are just like reflections in the mirror. They're only seemingly there. And we've got this wonderful display. When we're called in this universe, in this manifestation. But it can be very fearful. It can be very unhappy. Because we're relating it to another image. Me. But seeing the truth about it and seeing that this pattern that I call me or I. Is transient like the rest of it. It's constantly changing. It has no substance or any independence. It's just a reflection of nature. But the energy of belief. The reflective team is seemingly. Background is seemingly real. And so I'm constantly relating to this imagined person. Caught up in the fear.

The anxiety, the stress, the guilt. Caught up in it. And suffer accordingly. What does the emptiness know about suffering? It's complete. It's absolute. What does it know about fear? What does it know about stress, guilt, anxiety? Or any of these concepts. That the wondrous intelligence is energy. Is pattern shaped and formed. And we're describing right now or relating to. Not a thing. It just goes along patterning, shaping and forming, expressing. And while the belief is there. That there is someone or something. Who can become or get it. Or needs to become or get it. Needs to change. There's going to be problems. Because it's separated.

It's divided. We've divided the individual. Divisible. And separated the inseparable. So to think the one essence. That's transient. It's constantly ever fresh. Constantly ever present. Constantly not unaware. So it must be aware. Constantly changing and appearing or so. Like the ocean. The ocean is always the ocean. But it's ever changing. Waves, ripples, foams, tsunamis and everything. Appearing, tides. But yet it's never changed. It's still only the ocean. Ever changing but never changing. That's what these pattern shapes and forms are. This pattern that I call I or me. Is changing. It's not the same pattern that I walked into this room with. It'll constantly be changing.

Till the time. The seeming time. Which it's appearing in. Which is no time. That's another concept we have. The concept of time. Past and future. If I ask the simple question. Is there a past if I don't think about it? Without a thought. What can I say? Here now as soon as I say without a thought. The thought just drops away. It didn't do that initially. It seemed to have to be recognised a few times. And when that thought drops away. There's nothing that can be said about it. But another thought will appear. And that'll recognise or see. The change that's happening. Some of it will appear to be still and never the same.

But yet. It's constantly changing. That's what the recognition is. Or understanding that. There's no search. There is no seeker. There is no person. There is no individual. There is a seeming. Or appearing. Or a phenomenal manifestation. Which is ever changing. Ever changing. Ever appearing. And all the concepts and words. And images can come up in it. Fear. Anxiety. Stress. Guilt. Love. Hate. That's the way it vibrates a pattern. And could it do that without the word? It does it in nature. The nature hasn't got any words. It's doing it. But how can the nature discriminate itself? Without the word. It can't. If it's got nothing to relate to.

We form this conceptual image which relates to it. And relationship. Is relativity. Relationship is duality. How can the non-dual. The one without a second. Be duality. It can't be. But it appears to be so. With the way the vibration goes on. I think. So see through the vibration. Recognize the absolute. As absolute. Recognize what you are in. See what happens then. Investigate for yourself. Take a chance and have a look. You're fearful to have a look in a lot of cases. We've got to believe in this higher power. This God that's going to beat the hell out of us. We don't recognize him. Acknowledge him.

When it says acknowledge him in all thy ways. He will direct their paths. I'm not saying acknowledge some stone idol. Or form or shape out there. Or word. Acknowledge your true nature. The life that you are. And it'll direct your paths. It'll bring up the thoughts. The feelings. The emotion. The activity. The functioning that needs to happen. To make that realization or recognition a continuity. And it's constantly real. And it'll be a wondrous amazing pattern. That's all I'm going to babble on about today. You're going to say some more. I have some. Hi. Thank you for your comments. There was quite a few beautiful. I didn't read them all.

But I was just waiting for the gap in the spill. So we were here. Amarnath. I don't know. Some of them you've already answered. But Amarnath was saying. Dear Bob. Can you speak on self, non-self. Words and silence. Absolutely no different at all. Form and emptiness. Whatever. Just being one. Yeah. Well. Words. And silence. Self and no self. Hm? No self. Yeah. Words. Silence. Yeah. Is there such a thing as a self when you recognize it? The seeming self there. The seeming words there. Vibration. Words are vibration. The movement of energy. The seeming self. It's pattern, shape and form. It's constantly changing. Now that's another vibration.

It's all a seeming somewhat of a movement. Now is there even a movement? A vibration? Yeah. Does it have any beginning? That vibration. Does it have any beginning? It doesn't. Does it have any ending? Because it's timeless. When does now start? Now. When does it finish? Right now. When does it start again? It's starting right now. When does it finish? Now. So vibration is just a somewhat, what they call in the scriptures, a somewhat of a movement. Seeming. They call it what? Soma. Is it soma or span? Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. Soma. We call it shwanda or other language I've got it for it.

Throb. Throb. Pulse. Pulse. Pulse. So this, pure potentiality, they say it has potential to express in a form or to move or to vibrate, but whether the vibration has any solidity, it creates all the forms and shapes and patterns. So now Tanya says so reality is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, smelling, but the whole of it is a movement. without the labels just be ink, be ink life itself. Yeah. Yeah. Can you test it out and see for yourself? Yeah, yeah, she does. And you have tested it out and you got a good grasp on it and so is Amina. Amina says registration without response.

That's a quote from Nisargadatta, very elegant. Yeah. Registration without response. Well there you are. You read it from Nisargadatta and you read it from somewhere else. Take it on board yourself and so it's not Nisargadatta saying it. It's yours. It's you, it's yours then. It's as though it's not me saying it, is it? And Amarnath also says be without hypnotising to be. That's from Krishnamurti Jiddu. Yeah. And Amarnath also asking, Bob can you speak on mountains, oceans, cars, roads, space, are all phenomenal? And yet awareness only. Yeah, it's all appearing to be. What's it appearing on? To see that it's awareness only, what's it appearing on?

Anything you can postulate or think of, can it be outside of space? Space is emptiness. So can something come from emptiness? Nope. Seemingly so. Yeah, it is just an appearance. But it can't. It's all appearing in that emptiness. Everything that appears is empty in nature. Like, again going back to the mirror. If the mirror didn't have that backing on it, just be serious, put a backing on it, you've got a reflecting surface. Yeah. So that basic space, that emptiness, going so far back, you look outside in space right now, it'll see the blue sky, it'll see the basic screen which it's appearing in, isn't it?

If there's no clouds in it, appearing. Oh, I look up now and then, and there's clouds, all I see is the cloud on it. Yeah. Seeming a back to the sky. Mmm. But it's not. And now we have a question from Jasmine, from website. When you have investigated, you see that that pattern and form that you take to be you is not your actuality. You are not that body-mind. That's the personal entity. It isn't awareness. Awareness is impersonal. The one impersonal self. We label ourselves to be personal self, and that self has to become liberated or realized, but it is the wrong self that you are trying to fix.

Dear Bob, can you clarify a bit further? I am confused as to why awareness appears as the personal self. Well, it's not. It believes there is a personal self, because it has been taken to believe that there is such a thing as a person there, with the labeling, with the words, which have been picked up. The night intelligence, the vibration, vibrates into sound, vibration, which we, through the capacity of this human pattern, shape, and form, which is all vibration, the capacity of reasoning developed in it. Mmm. And it's like, you pluck a guitar string or a music or press one of the ivories on a piano, it'll make a sound.

We'll call that sound a musical note. And we can make songs and tunes and wonderful things out of it. The amazing intelligence of fusing it all can vibrate and put meaning, seeming meaning into those patterns. But it's still never lost its true nature. There's no self at all. Not a personal self or not a... Or it's the one self. Not even one. It appears to be the one self. And we divide it up into personal selves, see me. My self. And the idea of me and I, the words we've learned, which are vibrations, that has the plucking of the guitar string makes a musical note or a sound, which we've put into a label or whatever the musical notes are.

So we put these words that come up on them, I and me. You can't do much with I or me. So we've got to put more words or labels. And as it says, in the beginning was the word. All things were made by the word. That one essence vibrates into different patterns, different shapes. And all these different vibrations are called words or sound. And other things, activities, movement. It's all the same essence, patterning, shaping, forming, appearing as everything. And you are that. And there wouldn't be the problems that we have if we didn't divide it. And that's what we're doing. We're dividing it and separating it out.

The great perfection is non-conceptual. Awareness without any of the concepts or words. That's the absolute or the great perfection. Mm-hmm. And that's what it is. The cat just jumped on the floor here and walking around. If I didn't put the label on it, what's wrong with it? I see the pattern, shape, and form working. It's digging a hole in the carpet. But you love him. Well, whether I love him or don't, who would that apply to? That's what happens. There's a divided thing. There's a so-called enjoyment of it, or there's a dislike of it. Or we don't like it. Whichever way it goes. But who's taken it all on board?

A believed-in entity that seems to have some substance to it. Some independent nature. Have a look at the word me. Or whatever your name is. Bob or Bill. Have a look. Am I that? Oh, Bill. Am I that life that's expressing through this pattern? Through this pattern, yes. But the question was really why? why would awareness appear as the personal self so you are the life why would you take on the costume of a body mind okay well that's how when the learning words that's how it shouldn't believed in yes yes so that's the word cat sitting there is up that's not saying I'm a cat I'm a cat and it's not also it's not saying why me as life I have the body of the cat and I think I'm a cat but it's acting as a cat that superior to cat shaping and swimming that's what we call a cat if the kept doesn't know it's a mouse it's not gonna get a feed isn't yes so the question why is actually I love that question because I love the stories and a question why always invites the minds to come up with the story.

Whatever you ask why, the mind always, because that's the greatest improvising tool ever invented. Who wants to know? Yeah, so the mind always answers. If it doesn't have the answer, you know, go to the hypnosis or regressing or whatever, ask about past lives. The mind will just come up with the stories like this. So the question, why would awareness take a form? That invites a lot of beautiful stories. One of my favorites is for appreciation, for love. How else would the empty field of pure solid block of consciousness or even unconsciousness, because it is not conscious of itself while it is not experiencing itself as a form, because the consciousness is the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

Why would that want to see, see, hear, taste, touch and smell? For love and appreciation. That's one of my favorites. Another one is how else would the self-appreciation or awakening be possible if there was no falling for a dream? So it falls for the idea of being limited self, so it can wake up and fully, fully appreciate its limit, its limitlessness and omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. Otherwise, there is no possibility because if there is no duality, there is no expression, there is no experience. If everything is white, there is no white and there is nothing. If there is no day, there is no night and there is nothing.

So, there is no separation or imagined, felt sense of separation. The sense of freedom from separation is unthinkable. It's for granted. So, the awareness which is unconscious, paradoxically, the word awareness is also kind of funny because it suggests that there is a conscious of the there is a consciousness aspect to it well it is not it is the knowing aspect but it is not knowing of things knowing of things knowing about things is the consciousness the awareness does not it's just it's just acknowledging the fact of being it's just awareness of being just is not I who's asking the question I yeah who am I who's the questioner the questioner is a very question as well there's no questioner who would ask you who am I or what am I what's there without the questioner no question no questioner what it's just what is I think I've seen that beautiful answer Jane gave us in a it's you need city it cannot know itself and that's so truth that's the that's that's the ultimate answer it cannot know itself so it just drains to be separate so it drained that it can see a glimpses of itself in the reflections in the mirror in other people in the sky in the nature so but it's just a dream and well that's the that's the primary separation we learned the word I I am.

Yeah, and also, who wants to know, Julia's version of that question is, who gives a shit? But yeah, I love that question. Thank you for that question. It's a valid question. Why? Question why? Why would God want to experience suffering? Why would ultimate love and totality want to feel fragmented? And isolated and separated and longing for itself? Like, you know, it seems valid, but the answer is not in the mind. Oh, that's right. So there's no God that wants to know, that's just a word. There's no I that wants to know. Yes, all versions of those questions are invitations for the story. Yeah, it just is.

As I say, the cat doesn't know, why am I a cat? Yeah. Cat is a cat is a cat. Yes, I'm a cat. Are you a cat? I'm a cat. I don't know what I am. I don't know that I am cat. They call me cat, but I have no idea and I have no interest in finding it out. I used to spend years and years seeking, trying to find out what my self-definition is. It just disappeared, dropped. It just... Gone. When you're told, when little Johnny or your little Billy when you're a child, I am little Billy or little Johnny or little cat. Yeah.

We put the label on ourselves. We've got a starting point. Without that, I am. So who are we going to relate to? Yeah. Who is it happening to? And then if I think that this is what I am, then obviously I'm limited. Yeah. I'm not good enough. I feel inferior. I feel a sense of un-lovability, unworthiness. You're taking yourself away from the totality. Absolutely. And I've got to fix myself. And constantly be on guard, comparing myself to others and feel bad about myself. Or feel superior. Which is equally bad or even worse. It's hard from the fact you already are that. Yeah. Keep investigating and seeing for certain that that or this is what I am.

Oh, we have... Arman has answered that question as well. Confusion, appearance and personality are same. Cannot stand up for investigation. Division, separate centre was taught by our past. Parents, society. Parents, society themselves are phenomenal. One awareness appearing as many. Yeah. Beautiful. And Lily says, thank you. And Martin, that was great. Such a Dzogchen master. Dzogchen master. That's what Martin says. And Amarnath, seeming self is non-self Bob. Thanks, Bob. And Jane, amazing, bubbling Bob. Totally clear and direct as always. Strike to the heart. Thank you. Love you. And Amarnath, self-realisation is a notion. Separate self do not exist. Who has to realise what? That's quote from Nisargadatta.

Yeah. Yeah, self-realisation. What self? Self is to realise. That is really, yeah, that's a good one. Because that's why I really like and I completely bought onto this reiteration or reverbalisation into recognition. Because it is being recognised what has always been known. But now it's being seen in a clarity without the confusion of the self-definition and identification. Martin, the ocean analogy was wonderful. The ever-changing, never-changing. And Amarnath, you're not costume of body by life, your life. Last one. You are not costume of body by life, your life. My life? Your life, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're not the mask. You're not the... The story, you're not the personal story.

Now, Richard. Empty Dumpty sat on the wall. Empty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses, all the king's men couldn't put empty together again. Why not? Beautiful. And Tanya. Without labels, this pattern form can't even be called a body. Let alone a me. There is a body here, though. But who, what is seeing the body? The body is not seeing the body. That which is aware is seeing the body. So I can't be just this body in particular. Although thought says it's convincing that seeing is convincing. That seeing is coming from a viewpoint where the head apparently is. But how could seeing colours be located anywhere?

Yeah. Seeing, they say, seeing no thing, yet it is seeing. Yeah. It's no thing, even though it's appearing in, there's all the things in this room, it's still the no thing. Mm. Like the mirror. You're still only seeing the, you're seeing the, what's in, all the appearances appear in the mirror, but there's no thing you're seeing there. No. Still there. Seeming seeing. It's all seemingly so. Definition of phenomena is that which appears or seems to be. Mm. It's all seeming to be so. And that includes the viewpoint or perspective, the angle from which things is seen. Yeah. It belongs to the same dream, it belongs to the same appearance.

And in the appearance, yes, you are assuming a perspective. Even in a dream, when you look at something in the dream, you see it from one angle, not from all of the angles. And that's the wonder and amazement of all, if the angles can be seen from them. Yeah. Variety, millions and myriads and myriads of variety in way, shapes and forms. Mm. That expresses or seems to be so. Yeah. Even the, the weather. And everything in it, the movement, then what appears in the space like awareness, it's all seemingly so. Amazing. Mm-hmm. And Tass, quoting William Blake, eternity is in love with the production of time.

Nice. Beautiful. And Penelope, thank you, Kat, for your explanation of that. Thank you. Very grateful. Thank you. Who was that? Penelope. Penelope. Penelope. Sorry if I don't pronounce things. Sorry. Atu, all potentials exist, even experience of separation to enjoy. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely. It could be. And I think that's the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Eli's question is, via your own experience, what can Bobs baked you have enjoyed? Bob's pointer about eternity when does eternity start when does eternity stop it is some imagined moment in the future or is it just this yes this yeah beginningless endless timeless spaceless bodiless mindless yeah beyond the where when why or how prior to all those things when we say beyond that's what we mean yeah when thought thought stops there's no thought you're beyond the mind it's pure mind prior to thought because the breathing is still happening heart beats here and fingernails everything's going on but thought has stopped so that that means you're prior to the thought otherwise the thought couldn't pay it yeah first two years of your life you had no words well you have to comment from and this was a reply to tanya on labels that without the labels the pattern can't see here all bodies are within me yet i am beyond all those bodies too yeah yeah your life everything that appears is appearing within the awareness within the nose this experiencing and I'm enough answering to a tool enjoy without enjoyer and a lot of nice smiley faces and hearts that was enjoy without a joy air I'm enough answering to a tool and Tanya says thank you Bob and Kat indeed it is amazing how this only appears to be so mmm it is amazing this mind-blowing yes you say that and the movie appears to be on the screen yet this the screen is not contaminated or corrupted or touched in any way shape or form of the movie that is it for now with the comments Kat wants to participate in the meeting that's all the questions for now yes very good yes thank you thank you for participating for being with us directing the the expression what's left to do just leave the expression that continues to pattern shape and form transient ever fresh ever new when there's no pattern to express through nobody where does it go never came out of the emptiness never going back into it still the emptiness appearing to be different and I'm enough says silence enjoying both silence and words and a tool says now is the only reality absolutely there's nothing else and now everything apart from now is completely imagined but even imagine just now mmm now has no beginning and now we now is eternal and I'm enough that similarly words enjoying silence too hmm yes nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so so whether it's good or bad if we're not putting the description or the label on them there's still the same thing I'm not putting the description or the label on them it's still the same thing I'm not putting the description the description can never be what's described what we're trying to describe to describe something now will never be as description the Maps not the territory the view we're not the real all things been pointed out seemingly appointed out over the seeming ages 20 hour days生活 by semi others and what's there this basic screen the space is still near uncontaminated uncontracted Roberto unconsträum toutes that have been used Has anybody if you gather the surgery and was paying them to help you with the safety that he has to utilize your work?

corrupted. The silence is there, ready for sounds to appear and disappear. The emptiness is there waiting for things to appear and disappear. All perfect. We have another comment from Otto. Life is meaningless meaning. Meaningless meaning. It has no inbuilt meaning. All are neutral. Yeah, there is a lesson from A Course in Miracles saying that everything has only the meaning you give it. Nothing has any meaning apart from the, what's the meaning really? That's the story. So everything has only the story, the interpretation or the. The discrimination. Yeah, so it's just like Bob often quoting Shakespeare, nothing's good or bad, but thinking makes it so. That's really the same thing said in a different words.

Nothing has meaning. We could even see how stuff that we evaluate in our life as bad from the perspective of years proved to be wonderful. It all begins with the word. Yeah, the greatest tragedies turn to be the most powerful blessings. Not all of them, but with time you may actually start seeing. But that's again just the playing with meaning, giving meaning. As you say, everything is absolutely neutral. It's Michael moving until we give it a name, swirling energy. Everyone can point at it and see its impact and agree that it is there until it isn't. And the center is always perfectly still. Paraphrasing Fred Davis.

Hmm. And Amarna says, Hmm. The feeling discussion is full of smile. Oh, two of beauty is in the eye of a beholder. And that was a beautiful one too. Yes. Yes. If you don't see the amazement and the brilliance of that whole arrangement, hold that miraculous play of life, look again. Hmm. And see that word be holding. Hmm. Who's holding it? Believed in being, not the person. Yeah, and when that beauty and that amazement and that miraculousness is not seen clearly, what obscures it? What stands in the way? That will be the meanings, the judgments, the interpretations, the stories standing in between. Because with the empty mind, with the I don't know mind, with the receptive mind, everything that shows up is amazing because there could have been nothing and there really is nothing.

It's just appearing as a thing. But when the interpretation comes, it is related to the me, and then it's relevant to me or it's pleasant to me or it's auspicious for me or it's not, that is where the... where the misery creeps in. Because even if it is a positive event or it's a good picture or nice relationship, well, it is not going to stay this way. It is going to change. So even a positive meaning or optimistic outlook is ultimately causing a suffering because of the rule of life, the only constant is change, the fact that nothing stays the same. There is no snake, but it's only the illusion in the mind of the witness.

And Rosa, is the instrument of the body impacted by its association to a particular context? Is the instrument of the body impacted by its association to a particular context? Is the instrument of the body impacted by its association to a particular context? Even if the awareness is aware of the context? Environment like children on abusive homes. It's all imagined. Yeah, the body would be, you know, if you believe that, let's say you are addicted to drugs that are debilitating you and killing your liver, then taking those drugs will kill your liver. And so the body may be affected because it is all collective belief and it has the rules, like there are rules of gravity for the body.

But is the life affected? That's the question. Yeah. The patterns expressing through can break down. Yeah, and it is affected by absolutely everything, including the weather, the diet, the political climate, all of it. But life itself, you can't. No. Have a look around you, see life in the marriage of different patterns expressing any immediate situation. Any immediacy of this moment. But the body-mind, because the body-mind, the kind of the body with its software that runs it, that's actually one organism. So yeah, absolutely, you know, the children in the abusive homes, they have a different start. I mean, to start with, they will have the frontal cortex of the brain often undeveloped.

Nothing they can do about it. That's the costume that life is wearing. Does it mean that we'll have, we'll have less of the experiencing of the beauty and the joy and love and sadness and suffering and pain and fear? Not necessarily. Because the, you know, the comparison more or less, you know, there are people who kill themselves because they can't buy iPhone 7 or 10 or whatever. Suffering is so unbearable. And there are people who endure incredible losses in life and incredible, go through incredible diseases. So is it, what is it? Are they suffering less than the people who commit suicide? There's no comparison. No, it's even unfair.

Because every machine is tuned and set up to function within the preset limitations that were conditioned by the environment. So, yeah, it's very subjective. In a way. Even though it is just a pure subjectivity. But in the particular body, they are sets of rules. They are capacities. They are talents. They are vices. They are addictions. Yeah. As soon as we start to dissect it and go into all these different stories, it keeps going on and on. Yeah, yeah. The good thing to say is just, yes, absolutely every form is affected by every other form because they are all one. And there is no justice or fairness.

If there was a justice or fairness, everyone would look the same, live the same, and have the same amount of money, the same amount of, you know, that would not make any sense at all. Beauty. Richard says, I also in the eye of the beer holder. Yes. Don't belch. Mind instrument itself is an instrument. It is an illusion. So also its measurements. Yeah. Absolutely. Well said. And beauty is also in the beer holder is arm enough is beauty without ugliness and lots of laughing. And also life, live as though you didn't exist or you don't exist. That's a good one. Yeah. See how you are being lived.

Mm. Mm. Martin. Would you say that whatever is assumed to be inherent so is laced with suffering? Hmm. Would you say that whatever is assumed to be inherent so is laced with suffering? Well, when there's a belief that somebody you can suffer. Yeah. Of course it will be. Yeah. That's some interesting statement. I wish you could expand on it a little bit because what is inherent, you know, the inherent capacity to breathe doesn't really have to be laced with suffering. Yeah. Inherent like the insights or the capacity to love. But they would be inherent like genetical defects or something. And the pairs of opposites come into play.

Yeah. And they would also be laced with suffering when the thinking makes it so. Hmm. Because when you look at the animals, they may have different defects and no suffering associated. But yeah, I guess, hmm, interesting. Amarnath. Life and existence are same. Similarly, absence, emptiness are also myself. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. There's nothing that is not. No, no, nothing either good or bad. Mm-hmm. So it doesn't, which went, you know, if you're dividing the opposites, there's only trouble. If they're not dividing, it just is. That's right. Hmm. And free, everything's free to move, which it does. It's constantly changing. Amarnath replying to Rosa is the instrument of the body impacted by.

And Amarnath saying, nothing can be unbounded. Suddenly, the mind is fully associated with self. Awareness is already full and infinite. And that's all. Body follows mind and mind follows consciousness. I guess you can look at this, this way. Inherently would you say that? Yeah. I, uh, that was the, hmm. The, the, the common math Martin made earlier. Would you say that what is ever assumed to be inherently self and body is not self? Inherently so is laced with suffering. Yeah, again, it's really the definition of inherently. Because there is an inherent wisdom of I am. And it's both assumed. Anything that was assumed started with it.

Assuming there's suffering, assuming there's a close somebody to be suffering. Who's assuming what? Yes. Inherently, meaning it exists in and of itself. So even that, the one thing, only one exists in and of itself. And that's the pure essence of being. That's the reality. Everything else is constructed easily, say. Even if that's a genetic defect of the body, it has been constructed through the food. The grandparents of the grandparents were eating and the air they were breathing. It has been constructed. It doesn't exist of itself. It came into being and it will go out of the being. But what's really inherent, the only existence, the only reality, is the pure, not even I am.

I am is just a label. Yes, the awareness, the emptiness, the cognizing emptiness, the sat-chit-ananda, without even the conscious expression of it. And would that be laced with suffering? Yes. If it's non-dual, you can't even differentiate suffering as the opposite to what, bliss or happiness? Differentiation from the non-dual, from the absolute, kind of doesn't really fit in the picture. But yes, if you mean inherent as something inborn, then of course it would cause suffering. Yes. But if the thinking comes in and judges it and resists it, and that would be absolutely everything, even the positive qualities of characterism, exist in and of itself. Now, Richard, everything is unclear for the pessimistic.

Pessimistic. Mystic. Mystic, yeah. Unclear, obviously. It's mystic. Pessy. Pessy and mystic. That's brilliant, too. It really is. It's a good kind of a daily reminder even for non-spiritual sort of a... Because I don't know how spiritual non-duality is. Not really. I don't know. Would you say that whatever is assumed, that is Amarnath replying to, or to... Suffering happens for non-inventive. Yea, but, of course, it is human. I think so. But, I don't know what is so idealistic about all this and the godly. I don't know. I don't know what is bad about it. I don't know what is bad about it. Maybe it's the past.

Maybe it's the past. But suffering is the non-acceptance of pain, is the resistance to pain, is the idea that things should be different, is not wanting what is, and trading the reality which is already present for some imaginary alternative which is impossible. That's suffering. I don't want this. I want something that is not. That's crazy. Who suffers? Yeah, obviously it needs someone who has that preference and that behavior. And that someone is totally imagined, is totally believed into reality. Now, Julia. Martin, I am inherently I. No suffering unless words are added after the word I am. And Michelle. Life is inherently. Insatisfying for the me.

As it is always chasing pleasure and avoiding pain. Brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. It's always for the believed in me. That's the initial. Absolutely. She put the me in quote unquote. Yes. We set that up. The believed in separate. That's right. Yes. Tool. However the mind may be. The space of self. Remains ever the same. That's the quote from Moji. Yeah. The emptiness. What does it? What does it care whether the mind is cloudy, noisy, both pessimistic, optimistic? What does the screen care about the cowboys and Indians shooting each other? What suffers? Who? Caroline asks. Good point. Everything passes. No staying. Great. Full. Caroling, so. Although it is this stance is to what is.

Now is suffering. The distance to what is now. Is suffering. Absolutely. That's the. Yeah, that's. That's the easy way to view. Suffering. Resistance to what is. What is it means unaltered. I'm modified and corrected. Yeah. Leave it as it is. And that would be suffering. Now another quote from Muji from Oto. Whatever other people have and you don't have, you don't need. That's from Muji. Obviously. Need is something, you know, definite. Like you have everything you need. Otherwise, there's no you. There isn't. And that's it for now. As I say, you can get millions of quotes from millions of different people. Make them your own.

Yes. Yes. Well, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Digest it. Whatever you don't have, you don't need. Just see it in your life. How that is really true. It really is. Okay. Is that it? I think so. And thank you for being with us. And Yes. That's it. Thank you, everybody. Beautiful. Keep it up. Love you all. As we started up in start off with it. You are already that. Give up the search. Thank you. Messages at the end. Thank you, everybody. Love you.