This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
This one? Has the swelling on his knee started to come down? A little bit, yes. Okay, I just, yeah, I'm on live now, so I say welcome to everyone who is with us online, and we have few people here. Welcome to you guys and yeah little update on Bob. Gerald was just asking about the swelling. He is feeling absolutely wonderful. The fact that he had epidural instead of full anesthesia made all the difference. Like yesterday was third day after the operation and he was doing his crossword with the same speed as he usually does them. So he's clear cognitively, like after hip replacement he was so unhappy with the way he was looping in his own spiel, but this time he's just beautiful.
He's doing great. He's walking, he's dancing on his little walker. It's just few steps a day, but yeah, it's improving and he's getting a lot of beautiful, beautiful messages and couple of phone calls and yeah, he's great. He's great. And less pain than he had with the hip surgery, yeah? What? Less pain than he had with the hip surgery. No, the pain is actually the same, but it is medicated well, so that he gets drugs. Good stuff. He gets good stuff. Yes, so we're going to get to nonduality now. I'm not going to pretend that I'm Bob and I'm not going to give you the same spiel as he does.
I invite you straight from the beginning to actually contribute, direct me, put things, like really, really be here and participate so we know where we're going with it. So we started with a chat, a little bit of a chat before the meeting commenced on the different belief systems, different conspiracies that actually make almost the definition of the world solid. The This is not the definition, the model, this is not the reality. None of the belief is ever what it is representing. I mean the world as it is, is completely unknown. We overlay a construct of concepts on that world and believe that this is what it is.
Like we are looking at the tree and this is an absolute mystery, but we call it oak and now we know what it is. How much do we know about the thing by placing a label on it? Nothing. Nothing. But because for one or the other, probably survival or reasons, the developmental reasons, we feel uncomfortable with not knowing. Because the knowing, the conceptualizing, the narrative came up as a way to also escape the raw emotions, lives that were maybe unmanageable. So now if I feel the raw emotion going, surging through my body and I don't know what it is, I stick a label on it, now it feels a little bit safer, I know what it is.
It is anxiety. Does it really? Yeah, a lot of people teach you label your emotions. Yeah. You wanna go? No, nothing else to say. It's like it's, yeah. You know, there's a lot of schools of psychology, or many actually, that would tell you to, when you have an emotion, decide, like, and they teach little children. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the mind. What if you just don't go to the label and just as best you can instead of going to here just stay with here and just be with it without having to call it anything. Yeah and funny enough always being a little bit of a devil advocate and I absolutely agree with everything you said because that you know running away from the raw life into the definitions and descriptions is not It kind of one could say conceptually leaving present moment and what is and replacing it by the story of contextualizing and creating time and stuff.
It's not necessary. But there are methods and techniques in which actually labeling something, even, you know, the crazy, I don't know much about it, but I know that I think that Bob is still on the mailing list of the Scientology and he gets those ideas. He's been on one lecture probably 70 years ago. So they are those ideas that if you have some sort of an unknown stuff going on and you give it a label and you give it a story and you channel all your attention into that label and that story and then you let it go. Even use Sedona method. The You call it something and you say this was, this is from my past life 700,000 years ago when the aliens crashed to the earth and I caused the civilization to fall and that was dreadful.
Oh, this whole civilization died because of me. This is that release and you just make it such a big deal of it. And then, or forgive yourself, or whatever. Somehow those stories have, you know, this is, the whole thing is the play, is the lila, is the divine game. It's a play of life. When you actually see the play, you see the creativity of that play, and you see what works, and you just look around, oh, that technique, that technique, nothing is wrong. No technique is wrong, no idea is wrong, no practice is wrong. Some of them are more effective for you, some are more effective for others.
The whole mythology thing is a system of labels. Absolutely. Yes, you know like Cupid fired his arrow at me or Zeus came upon me. Yeah, that's all I had to say. Yeah. We have some comments. Amaranth said, Kat, we appreciate your dedication and effort for Bob for satsang. Billy says, good morning, love from Liverpool. And Amaranth also said good morning. Ben has said, the internet as we are using it now is a physical manifestation of oneness, a blending of consciousness. And Amaranth said it's great to know Bob's recovery and he's doing a regular routine. And Rohan said good morning Kat and hope Bob is recovering well.
Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for participating. I like the one Ben was saying about internet, physical manifestation of oneness, blending of consciousness. Consciousness, yeah, absolutely. It kind of almost seems like there is a coming back to the recognition because now through the internet you can't help but see that you basically extend your seeing. You put your computer on and you see the whole world. So when your eyes are everywhere because your instrument, the computer, the camera, suddenly you as the consciousness have thousand eyes. You can see what other people see. How amazing. I can be on a beach in Bali. You can. You can put your virtual reality goggles and you can fly in the space.
Yeah. Or walk on the seabed. Yeah, it is the divine game. It's a play of consciousness. I'll just put it out so I can see you guys. And yeah, and it is an enjoyable game if you are free from commitment, fanatical commitment to your beliefs, The moment you subscribe to something and you call it truth instead of seeing it for what it is, that truth needs to be defended. If my truth is that Jesus will save me or that earth is flat or that Illuminati are reptiliers, I don't know, I don't really know much about it. I appreciate all those stories because they're juicy, they're beautiful, they're yummy.
I love even, you know, challenging the most... I had a conversation after the Zoom meeting last week with a beautiful man who had so much love and care towards the humanity that he was on the verge of almost breaking into tears that oh they gonna kill us off the vaccines are going to kill us and the earth is flat How do you know that Well you know there so much evidence in the internet so much proof that this is so I said, well, I just happened to spend 17 years as a ship's officer, and I was the officer responsible for navigation. I was planning the passage through the oceans, writing those lines for many years.
And actually, I don't know what the evidence says, but I can tell you I have first-hand information, not the second-hand. Oh, and the same with the pollution, you know, there is no pollution. Well, I happen to travel across oil fields. Oh, well, first-hand information. But his concern was about, this was a love for humanity that was pushing him to stand up and cry out, I am a person who is not allowed to take vaccines because I believe they are bad for you. And trying to actually tell his family, don't do that. Well, what makes you believe that thoughts appearing here are more valid than thoughts appearing there?
They are thoughts. They are old thoughts. And needless to say, even my first-hand information when I was traveling the oceans, I was also climbing the volcanoes in my dreams, that first time in first-hand information too. I was flying in my dream, that's first-hand, that was personal experience. Did you even find one flat bit in all your 17 years? Not even one. All of it, all of it was flat, all of it appeared to be flat. Yes, yes. Actually on the vaccine thing I had my first AstraZeneca shot And the experience actually was of joy and gratitude. You can do it this way. You know, so there's another thing.
Absolutely. Yes, yes. Julia has commented, yes, it's all BS or belief system. I like, she, Julia said, yes, it's all BS or belief system. I think I heard Princeye said the same thing. You know, BS or not bullshit, belief system, appropriately labeled BS. Yes, that's it. Neither of that you can actually say you know that is true. There's three options you can believe whatever you want. How about freedom from all of the beliefs? How about the I don't know mind? How about the mind in which, yeah, this is one story, mmm, fascinating, this is the other one, fascinating, this is third one, fourth one, fifth one.
Keep them all together. Look at them. Mind likes to know, doesn't it? But yes, the urge, which one is mine? This is mine. Oh no, this is mine. And mine is better than yours. How about they all belong to the consciousness? How about they all show up in the consciousness? Delightfully dancing, expressing, look at me, I'm more dramatic. Oh, look at me, I'm more loving. Oh, look at me, I'm more scary. All of those stories, beautiful, beautiful stories, if you don't believe them. Because if you do believe them, oh my God, they're terrible! Oh my God, look at the amount of distress! And the man that I was speaking with, he actually, that was a marathon, that was like, the Zoom meeting ended up at 9 and we started speaking, we ended at midnight.
Three hours marathon. But we were everywhere, we were with Byron Katie and whatever was resonating, whatever was his experience, I was speaking to him. And by the end of the conversation he realized, oh my God, I am just spending last ten minutes scaring myself to death about some time or some ideas or some people who want to harm me and the humanity just because of my thinking when I stop thinking. There's no problem. Yes, well. Yeah, that's what's happening. That's what I really love. What I really love the most about these nondual conversations or the stuff that we're discussing really is like, you know, I have two kids and they think I'm into praying to elephant gods or something, you know, because I'm into something that's just, I'll talk about stuff that just never think about like, oh, the idea of know me.
What do you mean know me? That's crazy. That's weird. You're weird, mom. You know, but I'm like, but I can explain if you listen. I can explain What I like about it is I not going off of a belief at all This is not something to me I love the quote that Bob says I was just repeating it to somebody last night. It's a dictionary definition of a belief. It is an unquestioned, unquestioned acceptance of an alleged fact. So we don't know for sure it's alleged, like Santa Claus. It's taken to be fact in the absence of reason. So we haven't like reasoned it out or looked through it without positive knowledge I don't experience or proof really give my evidence So we just believe that the earth is flat or because we haven't been there or whatever we believe that that Whatever, but the beauty of this is to me.
It's like I can look from my own direct experience, right? There's another belief that I love to throw Pada Pohang, I Aam That, Raman Nisargad, I Nisargadatta, presence-awareness, Maha Sarvah, Pala Nisargadatta, presence-awareness, Maha Sarvah, Truth is that which never changes. So what's the truth of what you are if truth is that which never changes? What never changed? What never changed? Yeah. And I think the truth actually can't really be spoken in words because the moment you put a word on it, well it's like I could say dog and you might think Chihuahua and she might think German Shepherd and he might think Australian Kelpie. I don't know, I like this idea that when you don't believe, don't encourage to not believe in a way, to question it all, and then the false will fall away with the investigation.
Pretty much everything is that falseness. Whatever, you can see it all as bullshit. Everything. I can also add something because I see where it would be quite distressing and confronting for your children or anyone to hear there is no me. Because there is a fact of existence, there is a fact of I am-ness, of being that is undeniable. There is no personal me. Yeah, that's right. So if I would hear, and I did hear probably 10, 15 whatever years ago that, ah, no, there is a personal me, but there is no personal me. And then I feel like, yeah, but I exist. I feel the existence.
Existence is there. Being is there. Now the question is what I believe, again believe, what I believe myself to be. Do I believe myself to be the body? Do I believe myself to be the mind? Do I believe myself to be great or to be stupid or to be inferior, unlovable? How do I define that sense of existence? The existence is there. And the honest answer is, I don't know. I don't know what I am. Sometimes I am smart and funny, sometimes I am stupid and ugly, sometimes I am a woman, sometimes I am a mother, sometimes I am a daughter or whatever. That's the funny part of it.
Different roles can show up and different costumes are put in. But what is that which you just mentioned, Julia, that never changes? What is there underlying all self-definitions that never changes? I am. That doesn't change. When I was a little baby, when I was an infant, there was a presence, existence. You look for the sense of the word I am, though. The moment we go to a word, it's like we kill it a little, don't we? You know, because there's a sense of I am the first thing, you know, when we woke up this morning, before the words showed up, you know, the words they, they, they divide, you know, and then so the moment we, yeah, it's me is powerful.
That's game changing, you know, completely game changing. And it's to me, but again, what I love about it is I'm not going on a, to me, this is not based on a belief. This is based on personal investigation. I'm like, wait a minute, okay, so did I choose... what's my next thought gonna be? I don't know. I mean, you really choose your next thought? Are you firing the... you got trillions of synapses in your brain. Trillions. And in order for one thought to happen, you gotta fire a whole bunch of synapses. That's what has to happen anyway. I suppose that the you personally is a personal you there's some little bubble in there that's or is it just happening and then I don't know it's just happening kind of just like the earth just happens to go around the Sun it's just happening and maybe there's no personal doer there's just everything I am doing.
I don't know. It's just happening. And the just. I like that. It's just to me simpler and easier and game-changing. I Am The One I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the world. I'm watching his mind. And what he did was he built himself a castle to protect himself from everybody and it destroyed him. The castle's destroyed, it's imploding and it's... I'm frustrated actually, I'm incredibly frustrated. He had all this money, he had all this time where we could have discussed things beforehand and prepared. Does that make sense? But yet, yeah, so I'm just watching that he built this thing to protect him and...
So he was trying to find security through material... Correct, there was all this security. He built this security which... But yet it kind of saved him because by impaling himself, the doctors then were able to say, yes, you've got advanced dementia. Whereas I went to doctors beforehand and they all said, no, he's fine. Which wasn't true, you know, I thought I was going insane. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm trying to say that I've done it myself, where I've believed thoughts and I've built something around me and it's destroyed me. So it was just that snake analogy that made me think of it then. I remember once, I'll quickly share it, I was going to a psychologist and she was trying to break all my walls down.
And one night I had a nightmare and I was in this brick house and a man was chasing me. I was the one chasing me and I went from room to room to room and it kept getting through the door and it kept getting through the door. I finally got to the very last room in the house and I looked over at the bathroom window ready to break out and escape and the bricks went up. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I suddenly woke up realising it was me chasing me. I was the one building the bricks. I was the one locking myself in there.
I was frightened of me. What a nice dream. I've had a few of those. What I'm hearing is the clarity of what our mind will do if we're not watching it. How it can destroy yourself. Your beliefs can destroy to a certain extent. And that's true too. It's just being mindful of the thoughts. I don't know. Thank you. It's like, it's a marvelous servant, but a wicked master, you know. And so when you, like, you can look, stand back a little bit and see these thoughts as just what they are, like little poofs of smoke. It's this kind of way that, it's like... Believing, if we believe, whatever that thought is, do we believe, do we question it, or do we flow?
I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure if we've got the full quote, but nothing in life has any meaning except for the meaning that we give it. We don't give it, personally. Tony Robbins was where I heard it from, but he would have gotten it probably from the Course. And they probably got it from the Bible. Right, well I don't know. It's old, but it's... Nothing's new. And then Landmark Forum, I think, said it's meaningless and empty. And it meaningless and empty that it meaningless and empty That was like their little ad like you said There no meaning to any of it So it like you want to have meaning make it up whatever you want It all in your head anyway It all in words you know And the word is not the actual I'm coming to a point where to me everything absolutely seems pointless.
Pointless and meaningless. Is it an elating freedom sort of a feeling or is it depressing? Both. Very good point. Very good point, both. A little bit depressing because I don't want anything. I want nothing, I need nothing, what's the point? Elating is the freedom. Yeah, there's a little bit of freedom of not needing materialism or worrying about what other people think of you or blah blah blah, or the stories. So if you could stay with the freedom part, you're in your heart. If you stay with the depression, anxiety part, you're in your head. Oh, is that it? I wondered what it was. It was the depression in my head.
Thank you. Go back to the heart. To the feeling, the raw feeling of it. Even if the feeling is contraction, because, ah, what's the point? It's all meaningless, it's all nihilistic and stuff like this. People often have that, you know, if I have no power, If I have no control over anything in my life, I just don't want to be around, I don't give a shit. So this is the so-called ego, personality trying to grab attention, getting into a distress mode, because nothing can exist without attention. So suddenly this is the way, I'm gonna kill myself, I don't want to be around, I don't want to be powerless, I want to be powerful, I want to be in charge.
This is the head speaking. What's wrong with right now if you pause the thought? And you go back to the feeling. And in that feeling of, oh, I don't want to be powerless, see if you have ever had any power. Because there is only this moment, one moment at the time. And in this one moment, if you don't have the story, there is a lot of life going on. And if you anchor yourself in living that moment to moment, The responses coming from that moment will look equally powerful as ever. Like nothing that you have ever done in life was really you. It was always life behind you that moved you to do it.
Like Julia was saying, you didn't know where that next thought came from. It just came and the action followed the thought. But having a habit of responding from that, anchoring yourself in the present moment as it is, rather than the story, oh yeah, it's pointless, it's nonsense. This is the story. We can include the internet, we've got people online commenting. Oh yeah, go on, go on. So Amaranth said the analogy of awareness and wi-fi or internet is excellent subtleness beyond subjects and objects all pervasiveness penetrating the universe. Like everything the internet or bytes charge only. Rohan said everything is a type of energy only including belief.
Of course. Yeah. A thought is a movement of energy, isn't it? It's nothing that is not the emotion. Yeah. And energy, emotion actually is, E-emotion is energy in motion. And so he said, Rohan said, everything is a type of energy only including belief was reflecting this morning on things that seemingly occlude the natural state. With belief the problem is not the belief itself, but the believer. Any belief is only carried on when there is something solid or substantial to hold the belief. Yeah, I got to kind of comment on Rohan's comment. I'm just reminded again, like, I'm sorry, somebody else wrote, Alan Watts, who said that karma is not so much doing, but it's a sense of a doer.
It just reminded me of that. Amrith said beliefs are blind, non-investigation is the cause. All thoughts are clouds or illusions in the sky of awareness. He said judge and interpreters are thieves. Judgments and interpretation can happen without these thieves. He also said beliefs are masks on the mirror or lens of awareness. Let it be there, unaffected by them. And Julia added, within the dream we have various beliefs. We believe that good food will help us. Is that just a belief within the dream? Is anything true? Good one. I love that question. Beautiful. So Bill said, so ham, he said, so H-A-M are all caps. I want to comment, but I couldn't find any more to be said.
However, thank you, Kat, and love to Bob. And he added more love to you Bill did And then so Amaranth said seeing or illusion belief as false itself so it destruction non non so I guess seeing saying seeing seeing the belief as False or non-existent it kind of kills it a little bit. It really does John David weekly said cat happy to see your caring on the meeting. Thank you for sharing with us love to you and Bob and Ben replied to Julia, Julia's comment was within the dream we have about the beliefs in which she said we have good food or whatever. Ben replied within the dream we have various beliefs we believe that sorry Ben said Julia mind body and soul that's so relevant it appears to have a lot of truth.
Our long-held beliefs are powerful and can be like chains. I can only suggest that we be as open-minded as possible in this human form. The beliefs can heal. They really can. What do you think of placebo? Oh yeah, that guy, Nathan Brown or whatever. Darren, keep calling him Nathan. Darren Brown, he's got this documentary on Netflix where he talks about, all these people have these, he's an atheist doing faith healing. Okay, and these guys people are getting slain in the Lord and he's kind of doing it tongue-in-cheek and stuff like that or some guy who couldn't who claimed he could He could see I can read this.
Yeah, I can see this He's like now we're gonna just you know And he takes away his ability to read and he like in the night two pages later He this man couldn't see now. He's claiming that all these people are totally not trained or part of a show or whatever They were just regular folks And he just you know, it's just all in the mind. It's really amazing Ben said, was replying to Rohan, is that everything is a type of energy, only belief. Ben commented on that and he said, Abraham said that beliefs are thoughts that we kept repeating to ourselves. Or he's paraphrasing it.
Yeah, let me comment on this one. So there, that's it. Yeah, I just wanted to include everybody online. Okay, thank you. Nisargadatta had a nice take-up on belief. He says it is a fixation of an attention on a thought. It's a fixation. It's basically just not letting the attention flow freely, but just fixating on something. But I wanted to also comment on that idea of beliefs healing, because Bob has such a beautiful knock-out comment on this one. Jesus was healing. Jesus even resurrected Lazarus. Where are they now? Where is the blind guy now? He's been healed. Fate healing. Where is he now? Is he still seeing?
No, he's dead. So, yes, the fate can heal. If you believe strongly that the vaccine will save your life or the high dosage of vitamin C will save your life or the alkaline food will make you more mobile. How long is that good for? Exactly! You're still gonna die. So there is freedom from belief beyond the beliefs that is much more precious than any supportive belief. And I tell you, I feed Bob vitamin C and alkaline food and it works. He is so much more mobile even now after the operation than he was five years ago, five and a half years ago when I moved in.
I couldn't even walk to the cafe next door. So yes, it works, the collective belief. And is it only my belief, his belief, or whatever it is? Who cares? Who cares? I mean, really, you want a theory behind it? You want to calculate how many people have to collectively believe, like the 100 monkeys effect? Hundreds monkeys learn to smash the coconut with the stick, and then the monkeys around the world also learn how to do that instinctively? Who cares? There are theories, there are Sheldrake field theories, there is a lot of science or evidence or theories. Who cares? That thing going to the head instead of just being grounded in the presence, you are moved to go on the healthy exercise regime and you go.
But if you start believing it, that you are right because you're doing it, and you start converting your family or your friends or your dear ones, You do what I do because I'm wiser than you are. My beliefs are better than yours. That's danger. That's where you're entering the fanaticism, whether it is a healthy fanaticism or it is a sick fanaticism. Still, this is where you are surrendering your freedom to the fixation of attention on thought. You become a slave of a thought. Basically, the thought, like an impostor, is taken over, hijacked the whole system. And now the thought is perpetuating itself Whatever the thought alkaline food vaccine no vaccine whatever And now you go and you convert the world to be believer of the same thought So he said that belief is a fixation It a fixation of the attention but it seems to me more than just a fixation because I could say maybe I don know the moon is green cheese the moon is green cheese the moon is green cheese the moon is Thought is a fixation.
Belief is a fixation of attention on a thought. You're totally right. This is what Rohan was also pointing at. To fixate on something, you first create the subject for whom that fixation becomes personal. So this is where the believing, judging, leaving, whatever, breathing, sweating, is an impersonal activity. For that to become personal, you suddenly feel that, oh, this is someone here, me, This is my belief and this is important to me. This is where fixation happens. Otherwise, things just flow through the sky. There is no stopping on any of it. But then you create the subject. Now this belief is mine. I have attachment to it.
This is better because I own it. So the I is the one that actually causes the fixation. There is a bought into that there is an I that is true. There is, yes. I am a true me. This is what I am. And I think that my thoughts or my belief, if you want to call it that, is that anything we can put after is M and R is bullshit. But if there's a buying into it, so this is why it's as handy as a mom. Any of us who are parents can maybe remember how many toddlers hold a grudge? I Am. They don't hold a grudge, do they?
You know, they get angry, they get pissed off, they get sad, but then it's like you could go, well, where's the kitty? And it's not so much just their short attention span that enables them to let go so fast, because I got a short attention span, don't I? It's it's and I always and I don't know, not I, but meaning the personality, whatever, You know, but it's not just that. It's that they don't have anywhere for that sense of ownership or upset to land. There's no place for this anger to root, to take root. And that place where it will take root is the buying into the whatever we put after I.
So we start to think, because it's around two and a half or three that those words start to cement I Am Julia, I'm a good girl, or I'm a bad girl, I peed in the room the other day and I shouldn't have, or now I'm a good student, or a bad student, or I'm ADHD, or I'm bipolar, or I'm whatever. Let me get a comment on this one because although it is really helpful to actually present the whole situation like this and Bob is also using it, there is an energy of belief that that energy goes and fuels the thought. But there is another way of looking at it.
There is no me buying into it. There is only, only charged thoughts. So they're very, very strongly charged by life, you know, almost like having this electrical charge within it. The thought comes and it finds that it resonates with that system and the thought would be, oh, I'm unworthy or I'm not good enough, nobody's ever going to love me. And it kind of finds home, it feels true, it rings true. So that thought basically takes over the whole system. There is no me anywhere. It's just that thought and the system with which it resonates. What if you truly are unworthy? What then? Yes. The question I would like the answer to is how do I stop, or how do we all stop, our karma running over our dogma?
You are the greatest. It's just so wonderful to have you here Richard. Thank you. Yes, yes, so what if I'm really unworthy? Of course if I believe that thought. That's the total experience. There is not a belief. Of course I am
I am unworthy. But who is that I there? The thought comes with the presupposed I already in it. So there was no I a moment ago. It came with that thought. Now another thought comes and says, well, no, I'm not that bad. I mean, I'm all right. I mean, look at my life. It's not so bad. So that thought comes with different I. The body is here.
The certain frequency of the conditioning, I am a person who is a part of the algorithm of responding, already preconditioned throughout the life experiences and everything. Even the teachers which I admire, who I admire, the parents or whatever, they made me receptive towards certain frequencies. And now the thought comes with presupposed I and it takes over the body and now that thought runs the show, that I runs the show. And that's about my life is alright. Yeah, yeah, but five minutes ago there was another thought with another I and another feeling and another identification. Where is it? Is it the same I? Or is it completely different I?
And who am I in that? I'm that which never changes. I'm that in which both of them happened. The unworthy thought, the thought with presupposed I, and the other thought, ah, not too bad. Or maybe there will be a grandiose thought, I'm the saviour of the universe coming next, who knows? But there is a consciousness in which all of them play out. And with that consciousness having strong enough amount of attention released and easy, that thought is not going to have the strength to take over all the system. It will show up as an option, but it won't be believed because there is not enough energy in the field.
The energy is free to be aware, to observe that show, that entertainment of passing thoughts. So the thoughts may come, judgments may come, the fears may come, anxieties, everything may come. But then you see them for what they are. They're just ideas, they're just different universes, like all those pictures of conspiracies. You see them, oh look at this one, look at this one, or self-identification, oh this, this, that. Now which one is true? You see them all, you're free from all, you are the consciousness in which this dance comes up. There is the eye in the red dress, there is the eye in the black hat, there is the eye or small and drunk and ugly.
All of them are just another stories playing out in the consciousness that you are. In that open field of awareness just like the rest of the world coming and playing out. Right at this moment is this room. There will be another moment when the different content will show up. But you are the field in which it shows up. You are not limited to your bodies or your senses, especially when you have the internet and you can see the whole world through the cameras. Any comments? Just seeing that the personal eye is totally fabricated and made up is another way to look at that. It can be seen from different, because what you think of me might be completely different from what he thinks of me, and what my kid thinks of me, and what my worst enemy thinks of me.
So, which one's right? And to see that it's all sort of a construct or it's just an idea and thought, wow. It just lightens things a bit. You know, life is lighter and not as heavy, you know, and it's that heaviness. I was telling somebody else last night, you ever heard of Linkin Park? There's a song this band, Linkin Park, did called Heavy. And in the lyrics of the song he says, holding on, why is everything so heavy? If I could just let go, I'd be set free. That man killed himself. The guy who wrote that song. Aw, you know, too bad. It's like, that's where I'm just kinda like, yeah, I know that maybe had to happen and all that stuff, but I feel like, shoot, you know?
I've been there. You know what I mean? Where he's like, man, I can't let this go. I just can't. And you're stuck in your head. There's an eye that can let go or hold on. That's the cause. That's the meanness. And we don't see that. And when you start to see that, wow, the letting go just happens. There's nobody doing it. It just happens. I think there's a bit more to it though. Over the last 18 months I really have very little internal thought. Certainly not negative, but I guess the self-chatter, no longer for hours and even a couple of weeks I'll have none of it.
But emotions are still there the whole gamut But do you label them Well no I just experience them but they don seem to be triggered by any thought They just sort of play themselves like a piano. Beautiful. Yes. And if you can actually really stay with them as they show up without labeling them, This is the way the energy gets even, this is the way energy gets balance in life. Because at any point there is a lot of frequencies constituting that whole body and they are past traumas or whatever you want to call it. But there is an energy that calls for attention. There may be a blockage of the energy somewhere in the body and it comes up.
And what we instinctively do, and this is a survival We label it and go to the head so we don't have to feel it. But if you don't label it and go to the head, what you experience is a movement of energy. This is where the attention is needed. Maybe here, maybe here, maybe here. This is the call for attention. The attention which is the energy, non-judgmental, curious type of an energy. This is where the universe looks at itself and gives itself what it needs. Here is the call for healing and that awareness, non-judgmental curious awareness is the answer to that call. So I feel the tingling here and ah, wow, that's tingling.
As I watch it, try to locate it, try to be curious, ah, what's the frequency? Is it low or is it high? Is it dense? Is it thick? Just curious, just interesting, the energy, wow, that's life. And giving it that curious attention, you see, oh wait, wait, wait, I didn't quite get it, no, no, no, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay. It's gone. It already got that whatever it needed and it's gone. But it shows up in a different place. And, oh, okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, let me see you, let me really feel you, let me totally give you space, let me love you as you are.
I think that's love. Hallelujah Brother! Hallelujah! Perfect love! What is that? Perfect love? I don't know. I have traveled the planet and I've talked to people from different religions and lots of different people. I really like this definition even though it's still definition and words and it's kind of limiting but it works. It's an allowing of something or someone to be as it or they are without needing anything to change or get something in return for the loving of it, for the giving of it. So it works in a variety of ways. So if you're being present with that sensation right here without judging it and saying, oh, this is anger or bad or shouldn't be there or just gently, lovingly in a way.
I don't know how to use how to say it, but sweetly, nicely, present with that sensation, if we want to call it that, without even giving it a word. When you're just nicely present, not like, ah, shit, there it is again. Go. Yeah, come, come. I like I got to quote Jeff Foster here. He's like, yes, yes, come, come, but leave as soon as you get here and don't ever come back. No, no, no, no, no. This is just an allowing, right? And and then it worked so it works with your the sensations arising in your body, but I met a man Who because of this well indirectly starting with this one guy there was for a little while No Ku Klux Klan in the state of Maryland Okay, a black dude by the way who Loved the hate out of them.
So what was this perfect love? He didn't judge him. He didn't call him you're a racist I am a member of the KKK. Let them be as they were first. So anyway, I just love that. Love, idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because with the belief with the sensation emotion when it comes up don make a mistake The label will come Oh yeah Straight away Yeah it fine I am a member of the group of people who are in charge of the Nonjudgmental, curious, loving attention also. Ah, yeah, you call it irritation. I had that strong, strong surge of something that came as irritation yesterday. It was so fascinating.
I took the label off, closed my eyes and savored the juiciness. It was so yummy. Yeah, that's something you're really good at, okay? I'm not always good at it. Beautiful. It was like a kind of... Oh, my anger. Yeah. Love my anger. Because you take the story off and you take the label off, but the label does come, it will come. That's its function, that's the languaging center in the brain, it works. And let it work. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to read, I'm going to share what our lovely friends online are commenting here, because they've been making some comments and I want to include everyone.
I was with you guys online because I was following this from the United States before I got here and I'm very happy to be here now. So Julia had added, I work with changing beliefs using a specific modality and it definitely appears to work but like applying law of attraction there are holes in the story as there are there is no doer no believer. Jake replied to Julia, maybe it was a different one, who'd said earlier within the dream we have various beliefs. He said good food will nourish the body. That's a fact not a belief. Now let's talk about what's good food and for who.
Because a good food is a good placebo. That's right. And I did a training, Jake, called from the Institute for the Psychology of Eating and that was something they went into a lot. It was about what we're believing is to be healthy or unhealthy. And the collective beliefs also. Yeah, so, you know, we were taught to have meat and potatoes and we had to have this square meal like that was milk. It does a body good, right? I don't know about that. And also, that's another disclaimer, if someone is really attached to their belief in their diet and it serves them and it's not moved to question it, you're right.
Just stay right. Yeah, it works. It works. If it works, work it. Just watch out not to convert other people because that's violence. Yeah, it's... And if it happens, that's life doing it anyway. Yeah, yeah. So, Julia said, Jake DeFake, but how many do we know that smoke all their lives and live a long life, Or a longer life than those who are super healthy and get cancer. Where do beliefs come into it? When we are free of a believer, life will lead us to pick what is right for us, I believe. I'm kind of with Julia on that, you know, personally. I mean, we're not choosing anything anyway.
I mean, I think there was a NLP quote that I'd gotten that I am a person who is in the moment. I am not the person who is in the moment. I am the person who is in the moment. At the next moment there is a different thought. If the thought doesn't occur, whose fault is that? There is no one there. Amaranth said, Seeing personal I as part of universal makes it universal, vanishes itself. Julia said, Loving this talk. Thank you everyone. Grateful for my recent awakening. I don't know if there is a my that recently awakes. That's the thing. Aren't you answering? That's my own head.
Okay? My head. Putting it in language is so incredibly difficult. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, let me see. Trying to see in person. Amaran said, Who am I is the best food for the mind. I'm with you Amaranth, you know. I was thinking yesterday that my mantra is who gives a shit. Amaranth said perfect love is disappearance of a personal I I like that too Yeah that would be And Jake said Beliefs are only food for the body I would agree with that too. Amaranth said, Labeling is a fixation or creation of a personal I. And John David Weakley said, If you expect any benefits from your search, material, mental, or spiritual, you have missed the point.
Truth gives no advantage. It gives you no higher status, no power over others. All you get is truth and the freedom from the false. Nisargadatta and I Am that. Yum. Yeah. Well, that's pretty good for a start. That was it. And what more would you want? Yeah. Okay, that's where we are? Yeah. Okay, so, uh, we're going to wrap up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I've seen, I think, you know I wanted to, I was thinking about what John, or the quote that he gave from Nisargadatta. And I'm reminded of like when I first began exploring in this direction, it was Eckhart Tolle.
And I had heard the story of like how he lived two years on a park bench and I thought, well, without knowing, I was thinking he was homeless. He wasn't homeless. He just hung out there all day, you know. But I'm thinking, he's homeless now living on a park bench. There's got to be a way to experience this wickedness without living on a park bench. What the heck is the law of attraction? I am a Lousu. Going back to what I'd said before about it's really it doesn't matter. It's like if you are like Marianne Williamson, I'm kind of talking in circles here, but she she'd said that the law of attraction is valid, but it's spiritually immature.
And I'm like, I think the reason she never said why I never heard her say why, but the reason it would be spiritually immature is people with spiritual maturity don't give a shit. They don't give a shit. They don't need to manifest anything because they know that their happiness is not coming from any thought or anything outside of themselves. It's just a natural state of being when you don't have a condition for it. And again, another disclaimer, I just have to do that. There is nobody who manifests anything at all. If the thought comes and moves me to get the skill of playing a piano, I didn't manifest anything.
It's just the life moving me to manifest whatever. It's funny because I have this personal story of going into a nautical academy as the first woman after years and years of communism laws forbidding women to be ship's officers. And all of my girlfriends back in Poland, not all of them but a lot, were proud of me that I could manifest my dreams, I could put my heart and chase it and follow and go to the ministry. I did not do a thing. And I realized that right when it was happening. Not like, oh yeah, I had the awakening and I realized that I am not the doer, so I haven't been the doer before.
I didn't have the awakening. I doesn't have the awakening. The consciousness wakes up, not the I. But even during chasing my dreams, I could see that all the law of attractions, like you know, Put your desire onto your goal, but detach from the results. I had zero control on that desire. It came out of nowhere. It shone up fully blown and it had such an emotional component like, Oh my God, sky and ocean. But of course, come on, I mean, my left brain was logically impossible, so drop it. But still do whatever it takes. And it happened. After that, the 17 years of working on the ships happened and then I ended up here.
I quit working on the ships and I didn't do it. Again, I never really quit. Life just moved me to support Bob the best I could, so I did the HCAT course. There were two girls that came once to the meeting and they said exactly the same thing as you were talking about Eckhart Tolle. She says, look, I don't know if I'm ready for this. I don't want to end up on the park bench. Oh, I don't want to end up like you. You were six months to be a captain on the ship and you quit because of the awakening. No, that's not what happened.
Eckhart Tolle wasn't homeless, as you say. He didn't do a thing. I didn't do a thing. I didn't even quit. Life is giving, feeding thoughts, feeding actions. Life is utilizing the instrument. It is not my saying whether I will desire something or I won't desire. It is not even my lack of maturity or presence of maturity to desire or not to desire because it's not in my hands to choose whether the desire shows up or not. It is only the recognition of what plays out. There was not a thought showing up of me to quit the job and become something else. There was not a thought of regret that the life took this course.
Occasionally, they come thoughts of a great blissful gratitude that the life so beautiful and creatively worked its way, flew this way, so I'm not the captain on the ship. And I'm here, chief officer by Bob, I mean he's not here right now, whatever. But he... Anyway, that is the moment-to-moment recognition of the brilliance of life, rather than taking credit for actions or non-actions, rather than wanting and desiring, and if the wanting and desiring shows up, that's not my wanting and desiring, that's the body conditioned to support itself, The body may be desiring certain food. Is that me desiring? No, this is just what is happening.
Do I care? Do I want to stop it? Who would be there to actually have judgment around whatever shows up? So the freedom is really to recognize that the body plays out. The body has thoughts. The body has goals or doesn't have goals. And it's not personal and no one's doing anything. I am just commenting more on that on how I just like this a Bob story you know this was what four years ago three years ago so it's shortly after meeting just well shortly before meeting Bob I had met I'm not even gonna mention his name because we're live online but let's just say he's like a well-known youtuber with millions of hits on his YouTube videos and they're brilliant videos really really good videos I was a fan of this guy and followed him on Facebook and I went to go meet him at an event that he was going to be at.
Most people were there to see the other speaker who was on the stage and I was like into this guy, right? And I was commenting to him, well, how come you don't point out too much that there's no free will? You know, that's like for me, it was a big game changer because when it's I think I really think that our judgment that we have is rooted in a belief in free will. I am not a free will teacher. But I shared with him this video of Bob and then a few months later Jim Carrey, well I kind of gave too much of a hint, had done this really, this video, this interview where he was told, people were thinking he was crazy because he's saying stuff like there's no me, right?
And so he did a comment video on that, right? And his video got, but it was like almost everything in that video was like almost taken straight out of Sailor Bob's spiels that he's been saying for like 40 years, right? You know, anybody who's known Bob knows that Bob's been saying almost verbatim, almost in order, you know, the exact same pointers. And, you know, there was no credit given at all to this, my poor old pensioner friend Bob, who's not a rich YouTuber, okay, could use a little recognition, I think, you know. I was a little bit upset, not as upset as other people were.
There were people here who knew Bob who were furious. What Bob said for me was just like, wow. That was mind-blowing because he was like, he's not the doer anyway. It's just consciousness showing up. First thing Bob said actually was he says looks like approval to me Right And I like that true because in a way imitation is the most sincere form of flattery right And then the other thing is like yeah there no doer He never did anything. It's just, I'm like, wow, phew, wow. That takes the blame. It takes everything away. It just, wow. Wow, the shitting, all of it. That was, I'm gonna include everyone online again.
So, Amaranth said, labeling is fixation or creation of personal I. I think I might have read this part from, okay. Julia said, there is nobody here believing nothing. We speak within the dream. Yeah. And Amaranth said, grace or self is universal without reason or cause. Thank you. Yeah, I'll just see. Where am I here? Grace Universal without any reason or cause. Okay, so really just summarizing it all boils down to staying with what is What is and restraining from all what isn't. I mean what is is always present sensation. That is something so inviting and so grounding. Like really and it's also creating a powerful habit of like this is the mindfulness without labeling.
But to speak about it you do have to label. Like you know label it breathing you know. Even if you're just aware that you're getting a little short of breath, oh yeah, that's a present sensation. But what we do, oh no, no, I have to make the tram, oh no, I just got nervous, and we go to the storey. No, you can just come back to this, come back to the seeing. The seeing is such an adventure, you can walk around and you can see, you can walk hundred times, thousand times to the same grocery shop, You will always see something new if you are open and curious about the seeing what shows up and what is the present sensation in seeing.
It's not the story, it's just something that is happening immediately. And you anchor your presence. You can pick out the hearing. That is a yummy one. Even if they are so-called ugly sounds like traffic sounds or loud motorbikes or something. The ugly sound is a label of course and it may come up and you may ignore it. I am not saying that you should ignore it, but if you open up the whole sphere of hearing, you can see that as a consciousness you are everywhere. You are as far as that further car there that you hear it. This is where you are. Otherwise, this car wouldn't appear in you.
It appears in the consciousness that you are. So there are such reminders with the seeing. A beautiful reminder is to just get back to where the seeing is coming from. I see that the whole space of my gaze and what's there behind the eyes, what is seeing, what is doing the seeing? And you just even you can close your eyes as you walk for a second or just focus on that abyss, that spaceless space, what's there from which the seeing happened, what is seeing? Who gives a shit? The When the story comes up, this is the part of present happening as well. It is a part, you know, I may have a story about someone saying, doing something or something, appreciating or depreciating.
That's a part of present happening. If this is just a part of the whole seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, functioning, that is not harmful. But if I completely forget and completely give full attention to that story, now the cloud covers the whole horizon. Now the constructed universe has covered up the interdependent reality. Reality in which thousand elements, thousand and ten thousand things are playing its beautiful game. I cover it up with the story, construct the universe, give meaning, judge and basically Just make a first big leap to suffering, to feeling because the subscription to that story, that giving it undivided attention. And again this is not always I mean the same process is present when you are in a creative flow Let say you are an artist and you are making music The attention is given exclusively to the creative process but there is no I in it There is no me doing it.
There is no ownership of the action. It may come after, I did it, but within the process is just pure functioning, life exercising its skills. Just like Gerald you were saying before, that blue bird. I mean the bird is not blue, what was that bird? Bellbird. Bellbird. Bellbird. Yes. Which does throw itself into finding all the blue elements to attract the partner. It's completely with his skills and talents, it's doing what it is designed to do. So the same way the painter is designed, kind of, is given that gift to execute, you know, the life is actually just expressing through it. Life is expressing through everything and everyone.
I'm happy for God to do it as long as I get the credit. Yeah, that's how it works. That's what the identification with the imagined self does. It's happy for God to do everything, but takes the credit. And it may not be too bad when there is a positive credit, when there is a credit of gratitude, I am so smart, I am so glad I don't have a mental illness or whatever, some deficiency or I have both legs and I can walk, you know, and identification with the body, very strong, but it comes with the gratitude. But it still have subtle, subtle trap within it because look now I have both legs and both eyes.
It's not for granted. I may lose them so I'm gonna be afraid that oh my gosh whatever I had I'm gonna lose. Whatever I like is gonna taken away from me and life is constantly changing. So I may feel that I'm you know my legs they will get old. I may need to end up on the hospital bed like Bob with the bionic or metal or whatever legs. Ah, the bionic woman. To go with the bionic man. Go on. No, no, no. Oh, thank you. John David Weekly said he missed part of the meeting. Did Kat give a spiel? I'll just comment on that, John.
She's not going to do the same thing as Bob. She said from the beginning she's just going to do her own thing because she can't do the same as Bob, nobody can. Amaranth said, Seeing is being without seer. That was Ramana Maharshi. And he also said, Thinker is the thief caught by Bob as prey. He also said, Disowning the owner is the real ownership. Monica Lewis Menno said, Hi love. Amruth said, postponement is the biggest trap. Postponement. Postponement is the biggest trap, he said. I don't know. Postponing what? I don't know. It is an interesting invitation to talk about the traps. What is spiritual bypass?
So you kind of save yourself from suffering that comes from thousands of thousands of hours of penance and maybe ascetic practices or maybe doing good deeds and being a scout. I don't know, some people believe that you have to deserve by actions and that you have to be eligible, eligible for that bliss to come. And that of course assumes that there is a you who need to earn it. You need to pay your homage, you need to do something to be worthy of getting something. And what nonduality says, not only there is no one there to get anything, but there is also nothing to get.
What if you are a spiritual bypass procrastinator? Spiritual bypass procrastinator, that means you never spiritually bypass anything. You always postpone it. Always postpone the spiritual bypass. I see, yes, that means you are the endless seeker. Because what they say... No, you're not, because you never get around to it. You never get... okay. Well another idea of the spiritual bypass is that you can have the awakening too quickly when you are not ready when your heart is not developed when you are not kind enough and now you are awakened asshole This again comes with the presupposition that there is a you that awakens to start with and that you have any saying about it, that it is up to you.
Now it is up to you to postpone your awakening till you develop your values. And again, this is a misconception because there really isn't no one. It's just that life, you know, and it is absolutely possible that if you look at the animal kingdom, there are animals that are traumatized and they all awake. None of the animals as far as we know has developed a default mode network. None of them have selfing network. The wolf doesn't say, I did it and now I have to wake up from the idea of I did it. No, if that is a traumatized wolf, it will go and eat and kill their own children.
Evil and awake. It shouldn't have awakened. So if there is a person who awakes like this, there was a story about the guy who was, that was a Buddhist story, gosh, I don't remember which one, wasn't it the Bodhidharma guy who was I don't know. So, if you drop the concepts, and there is no self here and there is no self there, what would you want from anyone? How would you want to be, why would you want to be evil or hurting if there is no you wanting anything from anyone? And who is higher and lower? Exactly. If there is no concept, then you don't need to postpone your awakening as if it was up to you, and as if there was anyone to awaken, because the consciousness never sleeps.
Consciousness doesn't need to awaken. The whole idea of awakening or enlightenment is to see through the bullshit illusion of the dark cloud of beliefs. And that's it. There is no one to awake, understand, liberate, get out of anything. It is really just seeing the false as false. That's all it is. Consciousness is like rust. Rust never sleeps either. Consciousness is like rust. Rust never sleeps. Rust never sleeps. Yeah, and that's as simple as that, because if there is anyone there to get anything, that anyone has to be questioned. If there is anyone who desires anything, wonderful, just use it. Who is there? The one who is desiring.
If there is no desire, no one who wants anything, who is seeing? Another thing about the spiritual bypass, and this was Paul Hederman, I think, because I was talking to Paul Hederman once, and we were just talking about spiritual, because of course that's something to be avoided, a spiritual bypass. You need to do the work, and you need to feel your feelings, and he's like, can't you see that that's the beauty of this? It's like now you don't have to go through years like ten years of sitting in your ass on an ashram and you know sore legs and all that stuff. You don't have to do that.
You can just drop it all. You know, it's just a question of who gives a shit. And again, there is really no one to have any saying about dropping or not dropping. Yeah, it really is so simple and I love the way Tony used to say that you know the explanation that Bob has offered her on the first meeting that the whole world and the whole life and the whole phenomena can be explained much simpler than it is usually explained without this the alleged agency inside that is the doer, controller, freewheeler and so on. She is really brilliant intellectually, she is a researcher and she is a genius.
She says, okay, let's put it to the test and see if really the whole world can be explained without the agency. Can the wind blow without the wind? Is there any wind or is it just blowing? It's just movement of the air. Is there anyone beating the heart or is it just the heartbeat? Is anyone seeing or just the capacity or the field or the possibility or the just seeing? How about thinking? Is there anyone doing that? If there is anyone doing the thinking, can that anyone stop it? Or can that anyone, like Bob says, have only happy thoughts, only blissful? Just blissful, just have loving thoughts.
Like, you know, Joe, you always say, oh, you know, the part of you that is the Buddha part, the holy part, the saint part, you only want to be this. You only want to be loving and kind and gentle. Can you do that? Well, good luck, you know, because life is wild and life is dualistic. If there was no duality, there is no expression. If there would be no pain, there would be no pleasure. So really everything that shows up can be explained in the way that is so much simpler without the agency. Now of course you have people who you can't blame anymore. You can't hate them for what they've done because they haven't done it.
That was just functioning. That was just that body conditioned in the way to create the Nazism. He didn't do it, the butterfly didn't do it. We were joking also before the meeting about the butterfly causing a hurricane. And Julia had the story how the butterfly caused the grandmother of Donald Trump to meet her husband and caused... That was Mark Zuckerberg's great-great-grandmother. Okay. Okay. Chasing the butterfly. So, yeah, Donald Trump became president of the United States really because of a butterfly. Okay. So it was Mark Zuckerberg's great-great-grandmother who usually just goes right to, that was her thing. One day she went left because she was chasing a butterfly, but that day because she went left, she ended up bumping into this guy who would become Mark Zuckerberg's great-great-grandfather, and that wouldn't have happened if she didn't chase that butterfly, but she couldn't help herself I am not sure if I am saying this myself because the butterfly is so beautiful.
She ends up meeting him and then eventually what would happen was Mark Zuckerberg who created Facebook would be born. And then Facebook was used to make Donald Trump president. So it's really because of a butterfly that Donald Trump became president. And that is a wonderful illustration of blaming. If you really want to blame anything. If you really want to be honest about the nonduality, the general way the whole universe works, then you have to say everything, even the butterfly contributes to everything. The whole interdependent universe, everything, one element can't be excluded because the universe would change. I wonder if I can ask you, and I kind of know the answer, but is there not sadness when you see how much fear people have?
Is there not sadness? Well, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Yeah. Do you always have sadness when you see fear? Are you sometimes reacting with other emotions? I don't know. I don't know. I'm asking in a general way, not in a personal way. In a general way, is it not sad when you wake up or when you're conscious? I am conscious of the rest of the world being in fear. I feel a little sad when I look at it. I mean, it's why I like to babble about it, you know, I think. I think that's what inspires me, really, to talk and babble as much as I do about this.
I've kept tech support on the phone for two hours, talking about nonduality. I just love it. I just love it because it's such a game changer to me when you see things from these different perspectives that it just ends the game. Game over. You don't have to hold on to the upset. Done. Okay. It was just a thought. It's not here now. Because the past is a fraction of a trillionth of a second ago. The future is a fraction of a trillionth of a second from now. It's all in my head completely anyway. And, well, since it's all in my head, it's not even here.
And anything I, yeah. I feel there's a denial. That's the spiritual bypassing. Is that, yeah, you're feeling like this is spiritual bypass. I am not allowing the feeling by going to the here. Is that what you're saying? It sounds like you're going to the head, not the heart. What you're talking about, you're talking, you're not talking from the heart, you're talking from the head. Yeah, no, and that is, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, you're right, you're right, now I see what you're saying, and that is my head that's jumping in, but then it, but when it does that, everything drops away, including the stuff in the heart, it's, I'm left with just sort of an unevenness, here and here, and empty, quiet.
Worrying about a world problem makes you upset. What does it do for the world problem? Absolutely. And also feeling that when you worry about world stuff and you're sad about it, that makes you superior or better than those who don't. I know that this is not what you said. I just put it more generally. I understand What I thinking is that you got people like having I told you about the show I was watching last night of David Attenborough looking at the world since COVID If it wasn for David Attenborough feelings of sadness of what we doing with the world he wouldn't make those documentaries.
So you're moved. We get moved by these things. So that's where I can't bypass those feelings and just okay sadness comes, there it is and let it go. If I Don't stay with something, I won't act on it. There has to be action. It doesn't have to be, but action will happen when it's meant to, but then sometimes it's all just talk. We're bypassing something. Something is being bypassed. Something is being missed. I don't know. Who are they? I don't know. Because then again, if you look at the world, and this is again, I'm going to use Bob because Bob is the greatest and is the love of my life on every possible level.
So Bob is saying the same life, the same universal energy that created the climate change and the emissions and all that stuff that David, because we watched that movie too. And we were moved in the depth of our heart by his story and his calling for people to look into that meat industry and dairy industry that causes the whole thing because that's the number one contributor. What a beautiful story. So the same life that created the drama, the same life also created David Altenborough, and the same life created people like you who are moved to respond to it and are talking about it. And also people who would not be talking about it, but who would stand out and go to the governments and make petitions, organize actions, and perhaps do some more of the...
And then it depends on your constitution and your conditioning whether you will be the one who will just switch the channel, or you will be the one who will mention it on the meeting, I agree. Back on that same point, you were saying something about like when we fight it, in a way we're contributing. You know what I mean? Because you're keeping the, you're fanning the flames of the problem by fighting something, right? I was saying to somebody last night that I observed something. I personally don't want to take action while I'm in a peak emotional state. It's something, if I can avoid it, not that I ever have a choice, okay, but if there's an opportunity for me to put off taking the action, I will do that if I'm in a peak, if I can, if the awareness of course reminds me to, right?
I can't do it if the thought doesn't occur, but I will put off making a decision because if I'm coming from a place of fear, anger, sadness, guilt, whatever, all these fear-based emotions, my fear-based response may, you know what I mean, it's not necessarily helping the situation. And again, you might not agree with this too much, but it kind of goes along with the idea of the not fighting. So my friend who got the KKK out of Maryland wasn't fighting them. You know, he was not coming from an emotion of I hate or I'm resisting or I have to fix you and I've got to, you know, it was more out of curiosity in his situation.
But what I was going to say, I guess, was, I don't even remember. I just, my mind does that a lot. Just because, but... Yeah, that's just one of the responses that life gives. And sometimes there are fights, and that's also a response that life gives. Yeah, it does. It does. And if it's like, oh, yeah, I was worried I was going to say now. Thank you. It's about love, you know, and I'm really, love, it's my religion. I like that Rumi quote, you know, allowing of what is to be as it is to the best of my ability, including this emotion, including that, of course, okay, and including the thoughts and including everything, including your thoughts and everything, everything, everything.
The quote that inspired me the most, one of my inspiring quotes, he said, one person with, and this is maybe bullshit, because you could say, well, you know, look at all the trouble it also caused, but one person with only love in their heart can achieve more in righting the wrongs of the world than all of the people taking action combined. And I thought of that, and I thought of Jesus, and I thought of Buddha, these people with seemingly just love in their hearts. I don know I didn know I mean I know Jesus to be able to say it in English I'm in love with love because I've noticed again it was another quote from Jeff Foster and he said you know heaven is an acceptance of this moment as it is and hell is wanting it to be anything else.
Okay so if I'm fighting this in this moment I'm shooting on it and I'm resisting it or whatever if I'm feeling angry I'm in hell because that's really I'm saying no. It's like, you know, and so when I ask these questions of the who gives a shit or whatever, the fight goes. It does. All the emotion. It's just all the thoughts. Everything goes along with the thoughts because I can't find the one who can feel that. Just everything just... I am not allowing myself to feel, and I do, you know, I see it as all an opportunity because every time I catch myself, like if I, I have this pull out of belief maybe, but in my experience, every time I let go of something, of a major emotional upset, that same thing can't trigger me in the same way.
I am going to use traffic. For anyone listening, what an opportunity. Most of us get pissed off by traffic. We could use bad weather, but traffic is a good one. We get pissed off about traffic. Road rage or whatever. Damn it, it's slow. Every time you let go, that same traffic jam is just not going to trigger you the same way in the future. It's just not going to have that ability to push the button. So I see that it's like the more that I can let go, you know, that I'm just, it's those buttons and another quote that I'd gotten was that somebody said, it's not that people, the problem is not that people or situations push your buttons, the problem is we have so many fucking buttons.
And so every time I'm, you know, I let go of the me that can have a button, okay, or the sense of doership that can have a button or the button itself, or the actual emotion, and whatever, whichever way it's done, it could be just by diving into the emotion. There's a million ways to let go. I got into that. That's what got me here really was my interest in letting go. And one way to let go is simply surrender to the direct experience of this sensation and just being with presence. I'm not a person with it. But another way to let go is who gives a shit?
That to me is like a sledgehammer. It's just faster. You know, way faster. Anyway. Who gives a shit about the speed? I should look to who's online. Yeah, and I still... We're getting over time. Yeah, we're getting over time and I'm kind of... can't wait to go to... to go to the hospital and... I'd like to acknowledge, Joe, that behind your intention, the sadness, the feeling, is love, isn't it? It's a care, isn't it? So you experience sadness, which is usually judged as something called negative emotion. Sadness is bad, anger is bad, this is not pleasant. But behind it, why do you feel the sadness?
You feel sadness because you care for those animals, for that planet. You see, and then instead of going to the story sadness, why these people are so damn nasty, you know, and then oh my gosh from that thought you may go into I wish them to extinct. I hope this damn vaccinations will kill them off because we'll see what they do to the animals on planet. So instead of really going to the sadness, you step even one step further back and see what causes the sadness and you will find love, you will find care. I think you hit it on the head and you took it back to where love was going.
Yes, yes, because we can take it forward and go to the story or we can take it back because the origin of all existence is love of being. But it's okay to be angry, it's okay to be hurt, it's okay to be angry, hurt, mad. Everything is okay, whatever shows up is the manifestation of that life and the love for life. And if you come back to the origin of your sadness and anger, you will see that's the loving care. And that if you stay with that feeling in your heart, this will more likely cause a positive transformational action, if there is a call for action.
Because if you disperse that energy that hatred for people yes that may cause the action too You may get the mode of cocktails and throw at the governments That may cause the action like this But if you come back to the origin, love is so potent, it's so juicy, and it's so overwhelmingly beautiful. It may actually exercise the action on much, much higher level of consciousness. And this is what we are told from every direction. You know, you won't solve the problem from the same level the problem exists. The actions that will come about will be much more loving and not, you know, and so it's like, I think it's the difference between Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.
Okay? Malcolm X and Martin Luther King were fighting the same fight, but they had a radically different approach. In the U.S. we have Martin Luther King Day. We don't have Malcolm X Day. Malcolm X killed a bunch of people. That was his solution or his way of doing it, okay? Martin Luther King, both of them got killed, but Martin Luther King, I think when he got killed it was because he brought money into it. And he was talking about social inequality and that kind of stuff, but it was, his thing was, it was love, is what he said. Darkness cannot cast out darkness, only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that. And what I was bringing up about, I don't know, it was, I'm babbling a bit and keeping you in overtime, but I should just stop, you know. I just kind of want to add the disclaimer that when I mention the word level of consciousness, Bob would straight away jump out and say that consciousness doesn't have a level. What I mean is the frequency and I guess everybody has the hint of it. You know how much energy you lose when you're angry. It's exhausting, it is exhausting. Sadness is exhausting. While love is not, it's energizing. The energy that gives you the passion, the life, it wakes you up.
I didn't mean levels in a way that Bob doesn't like to use the levels because consciousness is consciousness, it's an open field. But because the whole manifestation consists of vibration, thought has vibration, the sound has vibration, light has vibration, Every energy, solidity, the matter is the vibrating particles of energy that constitute matter. Just like you have the helicopter blades, you know, or the ring of fire that you make by stick, it looks solid, it's the energy, it's the movement, everything is the energy. So, emotion, energy in motion, as you said, Julia. So, it is not really about the level, it is about the personal experience, the really, really basic raw experience that you know from life.
That when you get angry, you exhaust yourself very quickly and then you feel ashamed and you feel even worse. You feel even more regret. Absolutely. Like my tenant that I let into my condo because I was like, shit, it's been vacant for two months, so I let somebody into my condo who I should... Oops. Who I, if I was, you know, maybe less fearful, would never have let her in, you know, because this person ended up like subletting to a meth dealer and really screwing me over. The end of the story, if she would let go, somebody else didn't let go of his emotion. He was really angry.
He's now going to do life behind bars because he murdered her, my tenant. This lady who was my tenant got murdered by somebody with a gun in North Carolina. He shot her to death. And while she was sleeping because he was drunk and he was pissed off. You know, and you take an action from like this peak emotional state and also how many times how many people have gotten married because they don't have they got the blinders on. Oh wow, he's so amazing. Oh wow. And then we don't look. Yeah, but he's abusive too. We don't look at that. We look, you know what I mean?
We're not seeing as clearly when we're in those peaks as we are when we're like more either way is good. And then of course if there is a possibility to actually pause and see... Nobody does that either. Nobody does that, exactly. And there are times when there is no possibility. Reaction is explosive, just like a dog barking at another dog. He doesn't have the chance to wait till the younger wakes up. Anyway, life does everything. That's the base point. And that life is who you are. This is who you are. You are not entrapped in your body. You are that open field of consciousness. The world appears within you, the thinking appears, feelings appear, the objects, conversations, all of it is within the consciousness that you are.
Is there anything ever happening outside the consciousness? You can't say. You can imagine that there is something happening in another country, but even that image, that imagination happens within your consciousness. You are that consciousness. There is nothing to seek. It's just discard the ideas that you are anything less than that. Thank you.