nonduality zoom with Kat, 6th of May

But it doesn't mean the being is not going on. The being is much much broader emergence, like being even as a form. It is totally, I mean being, everything has a being, everything is a being. Being of a tree, being of a building, being of the body, of the cell, of the bacteria, of the thought, even being of the mental image or a thought The awareness is still a being and it exists because of the Ananda, the loving to be. The expression in every form and every being is the expression of the loving to be. And it is the awareness expressing as being. But then, in dementia or in other brain damages, that human aspect is lost.

And with the human aspect, the experience of awakening is lost. Like the tree doesn't have a concept of awakening, the cat and dog doesn't have a concept of awakening. But that's only because they don't have a concept of being not awake either. So they don't really need to find the liberation because they have never lost it. The loss of liberation is only an idea that I am a separate entity, I am the body-mind, I am not the consciousness but a fragment of the consciousness. So if I wear that idea, like I wear the jacket and I become that idea now, I am a body, I am a woman, I am not a totality, I am a fragment, yes, then I am dreaming.

And I'm dreaming a painful, painful dream that causes suffering. Because what goes with it, of course, is as a person, I'm always not good enough. Even if I'm the greatest, the smartest, the richest, the luckiest, the healthiest, I'm still not good enough because there's always something better. I could always be more. I could always be smarter, greater, richer. So I'm always not enough. So the completeness, the sense of fulfillment and completeness goes away. I'm incomplete because I'm limited also and because I can be hurt. Whatever I have can be taken away from me. Whatever I don't have, I'm desiring and craving. So that dream of being separate entity, that is the dream of suffering.

And that is a dream that needs to be questioned. Because if I forget, if I drop away that crazy idea that I'm separate, then I just am. There is being, there is nothing wrong with the being. Just like tree doesn't complain, cloud doesn't complain, cat and dog they don't complain. I am a bit of a cat. Thank you. No, actually I left them enough food in the morning. They're not hungry. They just, the poor things, they were alone all day. And they used to have two of us or at least one of us always home. So they're feeling a little bit lost. All good. They pay attention, but they know they're not hungry.

They actually, last night I had the first night here alone without Bob. Cats were sleeping with me. Aww. They, yeah, they happy, they alright. That's lovely. Lovely to know. Yeah, they, yeah, the wonderful creatures, they don't have any concept that things should be any different than it is. If there are no people at home and they got used to, then of course on the level of the body, on the level of energy, they will feel kind of lost. But they don't have concept that, oh, there should be something different, oh, this is wrong. They don't have the symbolic language, so they don't torture themselves. There may be physical discomfort, but there is no psychological suffering.

For us, there would straight away come many, many options of putting ourselves in a state of suffering, which is so unnecessary, because it is so obviously not. You know, if something's not there, the life or God didn't put it there. Who am I to say that I'm wiser than life or wiser than God and things should be different? That's kind of arrogant. And even if I say that, that's not going to change anything. Things will still be as they are. So either we find that place in us which is always there, is never far away, that place in us which is already still which is already just pure plain being plain awareness of being and the love of being that one never argues with reality What is arguing with the reality is only the narrative, it's only the overlay of thought.

Like on the depth of the heart, there is that quiet place which says, aha, that's how it is. Oh, okay. Oh, he's talking. Kat is talking. Yeah, and only on top of that comes the story. Oh, something's missing, something shouldn't be here, or something should be here. That's just a narrative which is also part of the Maya, it is part of the appearance. And it also loves to be. Thinking is also a child of the universe. It is also the way the God or the presence or the consciousness or the emptiness expresses. It expresses us bodies and it expresses us commentary. So it is not really to condemn the commentary.

There is a sweetness to it. The commentary is just kind of, yeah, it's just part of the landscape, just like the weather is part of the landscape. The suffering only goes in when the belief fuses the commentary and suddenly comes the idea that, oh, this is me talking, this is my thoughts. And because they are my, they are right and I have to defend them. So my thought is now telling me that I'm not good enough. Olekats shouldn't be meowing. And because it is mine, it is important. I believe it. And when I believe it, of course, the whole universe changes now. Now it is not a friendly universe in which everything is, that's how it is.

Now this is the universe in which things are wrong. I am wrong. The God is wrong. And everything is heavy and unhappy. Just, it's not the narrative. Narrative didn't do it. If the narrative was there and I was watching that narrative, The awareness of the narrative, just like a passing clouds, that wouldn't do anything. Like for five and a half years, probably maybe less than that, I hear sometimes the narrative coming. There was never one instance that I would actually believe that this is true. Whatever is saying that sometimes saying sometimes is not saying, but the clarity that this noise is not the truth. I am not a person who is the one who owns the narrative.

It is not my narrative. It is just like it is not my sweating. Just like this is not my digestion. I can say the body is digesting. I can say the brain is firing synapses and is creating some electrical impulses that are creating signals in the body, that they are ordering the chemistry going in the body. But where is it the place for me? How am I doing it? I'm not doing, I'm not secreting that acid, sulfur acid in the stomach. I'm not telling the brain to create the chemicals that make the movement of the hands. I'm not doing any of it. In fact, if there would be even an idea of any I, that would be the knowing principle.

That would be the witnessing, but not a witness, not someone who does it. Because if I straight away think, okay, the body is not me. I am the owner of the body and mind is not me. I have the mind. Then okay, who has it? Who is it that has the body and has the mind? Is there anybody there who possesses it? Let's have a look. And I'm looking, is that in the body? Is the I in the body? Let me see, okay, maybe I can sense the eye somewhere, maybe behind my eyes or somewhere, the sense of eye or maybe in the heart, okay, let's say there is some sort of a presence here.

But how do I know it is here? How do I know it is even here? Where do I know it from? Suddenly I realized, okay, if I locate it here, it is obviously not me, I'm the locating principle. So I'm somewhere else to say the I is here. And then as you try to get hold and grasp where is that I am, where is that presence, you realize that it's totally everywhere. It's the pure consciousness, it's the pure knowing. Where is the hearing? Where is the seeing? And where is it not? So there only an idea that there is an I that does the thinking the I that does the seeing But really the thinking the seeing the digesting the hearing nobody does that It just happens.

Life just happens. Just the same way like nobody blows the wind. There really isn't a wind. There is no wind. There is just blowing. What is the wind? It's just the moving air, but the air is not the wind, it's a movement. If there is no movement, there is no wind. So the same way, there is no separation between the two ends of every functioning, it's unnecessary. There is the seeing. Seeing is happening. But it doesn't have to be I that does the seeing. The eye doesn't do anything. The eye is a thought. Without the thought-eye, seeing is still there. So seeing is just the capacity or the functioning.

And we say this is the eye on one end of it and there is a computer screen or telephone screen on the other end of it. But really? If we take away the seeing, let's say close the eyes, there is no seeing. The computer disappears too. So they're interdependent. Or when we say there's no eye, the body will go away somewhere. Again, the seeing disappears. So they're completely interdependent. There isn't a separate thing called eye, separate thing called seeing, and separate thing called the computer screen or telephone screen. There isn't. They can't be separated. They are one sandwich. On the bottom slice of the bread you've got the eye, seeing is what binds it, and then on the top slice you've got whatever is seen.

And all that sandwich, all that seeing happens in that conscious awareness. So there is a conscious awareness or a basic screen, and in that conscious awareness, seeing happens. And it only happens because of the body. If there is no body, there is no seeing. So suddenly we have that consciousness, that pure basic screen, stillness, silence, that God's principle, life, love. And that life creates the form for itself, it dreams itself a body so it can see. Now the pure existence transferred through that, what is it, the like transistor or whatever, Transmitter, receiver, radio station, TV station, pure being filtered through it becomes seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, walking, thinking.

All of it is like almost as if there is a pure light and that pure light comes through the diamond and it breaks into all the beautiful colors. One color is seeing, one color is hearing, one color is thinking. So this we are the beautiful diamond, the body-mind is a beautiful These are the two diamonds through which that pure light, pure consciousness can actually experience its own creation. But this, of course, the byproduct of the pure experience, just breaking into all that hearing, seeing, thinking, it has the byproduct in creating the agency or the entity. Now it feels individual, it feels separate. Of course it does.

Because if it doesn't feel separate, if the body weren't separated with the space around them, there would be no experience. If there was only noise, there would be no noise. Because the experience is only possible when it is fluctuating, when it's broken. The object is only possible when there is a space around it. So the whole dream has to appear as if they were individuals. Because how else there would be anything? So the option is simple. You either have duality or you have nothing at all, no appearance. So the fact that the body seems separate is wonderful. That's fantastic. But the fact that it seems separate doesn't mean that it is separate.

How is the body separate from the air? Take away the air, the body is going to last five minutes and it's going to collapse. It needs that air. It needs the space to even appear as a shape. Without the space, there would be no shape. It needs the water, 60 to 80% water, depends on the researcher. Depends how they check it, whether they burn and have the ashes as a solid and the rest water, I am not sure if they exclude or include lymph and blood themselves. So anyway, it's a lot of water matter, which is earth, fire, water, earth, fire is temperature, is the fact that the body has its warmth necessary for it.

And then it can't be separated. It can seemingly be separated, like you could say that this hand is separated from this hand. But is it really I mean they are again they are just a manifestation of one organism They not really two They two hands like they are two bodies But they really made of the same elements They're all made of the same different proportion of the same elements which are vibration. The water is a little bit more subtle than the bones and skin and other material elements. And the thoughts are yet more subtle and the air is more subtle. All these are elements, they appear separate, how wonderful, because the eyes are calibrated the way so they can see certain frequencies and they can't see others.

Same with ears, they can hear a certain frequency and don't hear others. So we can experience the sound and silence, so we can experience music. So that's the beauty, that's a wonderment, that's where the gorgeous illusion, the Maya, is to be just bowed down to like, wow! And at this point we got to remember that this is who I am. I as the consciousness, I as the totality, that is the only way I can get the glimpse or the touch of my own magnificence. This happens through expression as the forms. Because if there is no expression, there is no experience. How I as the consciousness could even get the glimpse of being if I didn't have the form through which I could express that being and see the reflection of myself.

So I can never know myself, but I can see the reflection of the same consciousness everywhere. In the computer screen, in you guys, in the cats, in the house, this is all, wherever I look, this is the same totality, the same consciousness looking at me. I am myself and it is itself. That's the brilliance of Maya. And yet it is always and ever empty. There is emptiness of every form. We have JP with us, so I just gotta quickly brief you that Bob had the knee surgery yesterday I am a member of the NISARGAD group. I am a member of the NISARGAD group. I am a member of the NISARGAD group.

So Bob, as same as three years ago, he basically just told me that meetings have to go on. And I didn't have an option to announce broadly that we're having a break. No, he says I'm going to be talking. He actually likes the way I do it, so that's the job. I'll do anything for him. I would do absolutely anything. And now we have someone else with us and welcome and I'm gonna just repeat the same thing. Bob is away for a couple of weeks. He is well. He is in recovery after the surgery. And he basically told me to do the spiel instead. So that's the story.

Apologies, I was just switching the device because the battery was running low. Sorry. Oh yeah, you got through. I thought it was some new person, but okay. You fresh a new moment to moment. Everything and everyone is fresh and new. It's only the mighty memory that makes us believe that things are still solid. But that's another brilliant aspect of the manifested world, that everything is always fresh and new and ever-changing. Nothing stays the same. Even the pyramids in Egypt, they may be thousands of years old, but they are changing. They are constantly changing energetically, physically, they are moving, even the continental shelves are moving. And in the scale of the universe, how would that supernova even see the existence of coming and going of the whole planet and the little ants on it?

So the transience is another aspect of unreality. They say reality is that which never changes. So everything that changes is the illusion, is maya, is transience, is impermanence. So if we are here as a changing form, surrounded by all that changing forms, that's the way to appreciate it because they won't last. The cuts, they won't be there forever, so it's time to love them now. Everything in the whole appearance is an opportunity for appreciation, because really, even though we know that the nature of every form is empty, because we know it from quantum mechanics, we know it when we put the microscope, we only see the particles vibrating infinitely fast that appear to be solid, but there's nothing really there.

We also know that none of the objects can be separated from its environment. This isn't really something independent. Hello! Yes, so that's the chance to love the world as it is, to appreciate it as it is, because that's my little soft point of viewing the whole manifested world as the opportunity for self-love, for the appreciation. There are so many forms and shapes and patterns, so many colours on that diamond, that not everyone has the same preference, but collectively it is all appreciated. It is all the same essence, which can be recognised in every form, in every shape. You can see the essence behind it. And as you recognize the essence behind it, you can't help but just love and appreciate it.

Because of the brilliance, because of the beauty, because of the fact that there could have been nothing. There could have been just like in a deep sleep. The world collapses, disappears. There is no world, there is no experience, there is nothing. Doesn't mean there is no being. Being never goes. The fact that the memory stops, the fact that the perception stops, doesn't mean that the being stops. The fact that there is no narrative that can report on the being doesn't mean that it stops. We can't actually even say. And then the dream starts, the night dream starts out of the deep sleep and a different world appears, Different situation.

As I was walking out of the hospital, Bob was on this very, very strong drug. He started kind of speaking slowly. He was in the dream, obviously. There was something going on there in that dream. He was communicating something. His brain has created a world that nobody else could see. And in that world, he probably had the body that was walking and talking. Because obviously his body was sitting in that bed, kind of immobile because of the wounds. But in the dream he was running, he was doing something, he was climbing trees or whatever. So that world is another face of Maya. It's not much different to this world in which the body feels solid.

If you remember Vivek's dream, perhaps the common nightmare when you run away There are many more. The characteristic of this manifested world is that it is so well done. It is manifested with such perfection. It is the absolute. It is the godliness. It really fills you so brilliantly. I am the only one who is here. Is it the size of the tennis ball? Or is it a size? How locate that sense of that imaginary eye, the controller, the one who has free will and can decide what they're gonna think in five minutes. There's no one there. But if you imagine there is someone there, okay, just turn that imagination up a little bit and see where does it sit?

How big is it, that eye? Good luck with that. There's nothing there. You can just point your finger out and see where are you looking? What is watching? Where is the looking coming from? What is there behind the eyes? Is there any eye there? Can you sense anything like from the window of seeing when you point? Anything there? It just an abyss It just a shapeless formless dimensionless abyss There No I No entity But the trick is perfect because there is a sense of existence And that sense of existence never goes away. There is undeniable fact that I am. There is an existence. What I am, that's a different story.

If I think I'm imagined I somewhere here or there, that's a different story. But if I don't imagine what is there, what is that I, but just sense the presence, the existence, that's undeniable. I can't say I am not, I can't say I don't exist. There is an existence, there is a consciousness. I'm conscious. Now the definition of what is conscious is that a person conscious, is that a body conscious, is that a mind conscious. That is already going into the story. But the consciousness is there. The awareness is there. The presence is there. That's undeniable. And that presence, when I start putting a costume on it, now that presence is a woman.

And now, woman is not good enough, so that will be a Polish woman, or a woman who is married, or a woman who is whatever. And now, adding to that story, I'll build the entity. And if I'm 40 year old or 50 year old, that building up story was on my back like a costume for long enough to become solid. So now it feels that this presence is not just an open field of consciousness, just what looks through that eyes, what's behind the eye doing the looking, It's not just the pure consciousness, but that woman. But there isn't any woman there. The body is there, but there isn't anyone in that body who does anything.

It's just pure consciousness, pure presence, unlimited. If not for that screen, I couldn't even see my own reflection. I wouldn't even see my face. If I would stop imagining having a body of a shape, of a female shape, I couldn't even say I had shape. I couldn't say I have face. In direct experience, without the thought, without the imagination, I don't know what I am. I can't say. How could I? To know what I am, I would have to look from somewhere else and see. And then obviously I'm the one who's looking, not the one what it is looking at. So I'm still not capable of figuring out.

It's just like in, I think Bhagavad Gita says, the sword can't cut itself. Of course, the tongue can't taste itself, the eye can't see itself. It can see the reflection, but the eye is not a reflection. It can see reflection, but not itself. So really what you are can never ever be known. If there is something that you know, that's already a thing. Only things can be known. The pure existence is undeniable. But what that existence is, of course we put words on it, we put word consciousness, but what is consciousness? We don't know. What is awareness? What is God? What is space? What is emptiness?

We don't know. That's the fact of existence, of being, the process of being. It doesn't have to be divided into the be-here and be-what something. No, there is just being, but no one who is doing that being. It's just like there is a seeing, but there is not person, there is no little entity there that looks through. Is the pure consciousness looking? Is the pure God looking? Is the pure presence filtered through the body, filtered, being filtered through that transmitter-receiver becoming a seeing? That's the magic of it, that's the miracle of it. That it is and it is unknowable and at the same time it is undeniable.

And the tragedy of seeking is not really a joke of seeking. The tragedy when a lot of suffering is involved. But in my observation, it shows that the more suffering is involved, the more transformational the end of suffering, the end of seeking is. When someone had it kind of only on the surface, didn't really hurt that much, didn't really seek that intensely, Then the awakening is not that big of a deal, like, ah, come on, so what? Okay, nobody there, life lives itself. Yeah, really. But when that joke of a seeking, imagine that there is someone there who is incomplete and needs to get something to become complete, and that completeness will somehow dissolve the separation.

If that desire becomes an obsession and becomes really limiting suffering crazy longing then fulfilling of that desire is an absolute joke is such a joy such a release such a laughable recognition that nothing has ever been lost The one that wanted to find something was completely imagined. It's just like the Santa Claus complaining about his job. But there is no real Santa Claus. There is only a dressed up in costume guy who can do the complaining, but he doesn't know anything about real Santa Claus because real Santa Claus doesn't exist, it's imagined. So the me, the entity there who has free will, who make wrong choices, I am the one who does horrible things, hurts people, should feel guilty, feels ashamed of itself.

That entity is completely imagined. There is nobody there. There is just life expressing through the eyes as the seeing, through the mind as the conditioning, as the character pattern. Just like through the mind of dog. Some dog will be very pleasant and very playful and other dog will be very aggressive. I am very aggressive, the same here, the personality will be either very kind or will be a little bit abrupt and rough. It depends on the environment. I didn't create my personality. If I had different parents, I would be having a different personality. If I had different school, different experiences. So how is it even my?

How my shames and my wounds are my fault? It's the whole world that created that body, is the whole world that pure life essence that expresses through that body as the universal consciousness. And that same life also imagined to be a contraction, that same life imagined to be trapped in that cage of ideas, to be an entity. For me the entity was more kind of an emotional. For some people it is the obsession of let's say being competent. This is me. I am the one who is always competent. For me it was more about being vulnerable. I was the one who is vulnerable, who is afraid of rejection, who would never speak in public, who would never even ask question to not look full, extremely shy.

That was the identity, emotional identity. And it was so intensely believed that it became solid. That I would say, yes, the body is not real, but this identity is more real than anything in the world. But no, it's completely imagined. But of course, like was this guy who was, he was a chief of a propaganda from Hitler's times, Himmler. He was saying that the lie repeated 40 times becomes the truth. Everyone believes it. We can see it in the media. Like, you know, whoever won the war is a hero. But if you hear the other story, the heroes died, like, yeah, they... Everything is just an interpretation, it's just a story.

But the story is believed into being. We believe the whole Maya into being. The act of assertion of the perception. The body is solid. And with that, yes, the body is solid. And the same way, yes, there is an entity there in the heart. Oh no, behind my eyes. Oh no, no, where is that entity? Okay, oh maybe here. There's some contraction there. Or somewhere in the solar plexus. They say ego is in the third chakra. Okay, this is this contraction. This is who I am. Really, if there is a contraction, if there is a little bit of a contracted energy, it means this is something that is calling for attention.

Just look at this, just look with the childlike open curiosity. Just look what is it? Ah, contraction. Okay, if I don't call it anything, because what we do, we straight away call it, oh no, this is an anxiety, oh, I'm having a panic attack, I'm anxious, oh my God, I'm fearful. This one straight away creates even stronger suffering and even stronger identification. Now I'm the one who is shy or the one who is anxious. But what is there, that contraction here, is just an energy trapped, just an energy. If you actually just close your eye and feel it, feel the movement, you will see the slight vibration, slight pulsation.

That's no anxiety, that's just life. Take the label off. Anger. Anger is a good one. This one. New wells. Bubbles up the whole body. And then when I call it anger, straight away I look around. Okay, okay, okay. Oh, him. He made me angry. Oh, no, no, them. They made me angry. Oh, my boss. The energy comes up and the narrative quickly, quickly, quickly interprets a story. Yes, I'm angry because it's raining. Oh, I'm angry because I don't earn enough money. Now this is the habit of energy and narrative always gives you a nice compelling story with it So what do you do You come back to the come back to the present experience to that precious present moment which is alive and vibrant and right here Get out of that narrative, the story.

Oh, they are always against me. That's the story, that's in the head. What is always? There is no time. There's only this moment. In this moment, if there is a contraction, that contraction is actually a call for non-judgmental curious attention. When that contraction is seen with that attitude of, oh, what is it? No, no, I'm not going to label it anger. I'm not going to label it anxiety. I'm not going to label it fear. I'm just gonna see it like child would see. What is it? Where is it? Okay, it is here. Oh, it's about the size of the fist. Okay, interesting. Oh, oh, it is kind of feels like really thick, thick gray matter, almost like solid.

Wow, how fascinating. And it's pulsating slowly. Oh, and it makes my breath shallow. Amazing, amazing. The more of that nonjudgmental curious attention, I get. If I give to that contracted energy, the more that energy fills up and relaxes, and suddenly what happens? A spontaneous healing happens. That contraction is healed. There may be another someone else, somewhere else, and that's again call for attention. This body is so wise. This is such a brilliant factory. If there is a contraction, if there is a pain, that's the call, call for attention. Everything calls for attention. Without attention, nothing exists. But there is a quality of attention. If the attention comes with resistance, that is already a personalized attention that creates suffering.

If there is a contraction here, oh no, I gotta stop it, I gotta try, try and relax it, I gotta try. That's an effort, that's a resistance. If I'm trying to get rid of it, if I'm trying to relax, that means I don't want it, I'm at war with it. And what does it create? It strengthens the I and it strengthens the sensation, action-reaction. It gives the fuel, it pours the fuel over the fire. So now instead of feeling that energetic call and giving that attention, that healing power where it is needed, now the opposite happens. The energy gets broken into that strengthen me and strengthen object that are in conflict.

And that conflict is the suffering. Doesn't have to be this way. Life may be so simple. What the animal does when there is a contraction of energy, when there is an anxiety, it makes sure the body is safe and it lies and rests and breathes and that's it. Breathing into whatever is happening, giving it attention. That's the natural way of being. Not going to the stories straight away. Trying to always, if the body provides any sort of sensation, hearing, seeing, sensing, temperature, contraction, pain, any sort of sensation is always a gift because it is a present sensation. It brings you back to the present happening.

Now you're with it. You're with the present moment fully. You give attention when it is needed. When there is a noise, the attention goes to the noise, but noise is present. Instead of going to the head and going to the story, it goes on the Facebook, on the phone or wherever, Where the top of the head entertainment is provided, where the time is provided, the stories of future and past and poor me are participating. That is where the presence, that intensity of being, that juiciness of being get obscured. And of course, the more of that obscuration, more of running away from the immediacy of this moment into the story, what should be, could be, or what isn't, or what I want, or what I don't, the more this one becomes habituated.

I am the one who is the most important person in the world. I am the one who is the most important person in the world. The sweetest and the sweetest way to come back to the reality is to always reward you for the slightest little moments of being with it. You feel you stub your toe, oh, that's present sensation, thank you. Or you're just hearing sounds, yes, I'm conscious, I'm awake right now. I'm hearing few sounds, I'm awake, that's it, that's the natural state. I'm not subscribing to the thinking telling me about shit. Or even if the thinking goes on, but there is no subscription, there is still attention left for being clear.

I am conscious for being alive, for being awake. That's it. Bravo! Congratulations! Give yourself a hug. Yes, this is natural state. You are it. You are awake. Being awake is not being in the state of eternal ecstasy. Being awake is that natural state in which your cat or your dog or the bird outside or the tree stays all the time. It's very, very simple, very ordinary, very natural state of being at peace with what is. And even if you stub your toe and it hurts and you scream, wah! But down in the bottom of your heart you are at peace. Oh, of course. Yes, of course.

That's appropriate. That's perfect. There is a What is the perfection about the pain when you hit your body? One of my very, very dear friends, she has this spinal bifida. She was born with the paralyzed from waist down. And luckily, her mother was really, really attentive to her because those kids don't live very long because they don't feel pain. So they sit on the hot stove and they bake themselves because they don't feel pain. I am a woman who is not afraid of pain. She used to jump out of the stairs and break her legs in 12 different places because she didn't feel the pain.

All the kids were admiring her. So I stubbed my toe, oh wonderful, I feel the pain, that's great. Of course, you know, there is a resistance to pain that comes naturally as well. And thank God for that. Yeah, that's what the bodies do. Bodies get angry. Oh, great! Bodies get irritable. Fantastic! Yeah, the hormones go up and down. That's normal. That's all part of the functioning. And there is still that level of being in communion with reality, which allows those reactions. It's not that being awake is always being blissful, always being loving, never swearing if you stab your toe or never getting period or whatever.

Of course not. Natural state is natural. And it's always here underlying that substitute reality which we create in the imagination when we start thinking excessively about what is not and creating a bigger picture. And again, this is not to say that there's something wrong with thinking. It's wonderful. Thinking is gorgeous. The models of reality are gorgeous. It's just when the belief into the model of reality makes the model of reality more real than what is. That is when the discrepancy, that is when this world splits, I am talking a lot. I would like you to participate maybe. Tell me about your insights and your experiences.

Maybe there is something you struggle with or something you would like to hear more about. Just unmute yourself and join. Yeah, so far great. So I got to know about Bob from the book Greatest Secret. I don't know if you have heard of it. Yeah, he was recording some quotes to it and Rhonda actually, she used to live nearby and she used to come and visit. I only met her once when she came about four years ago, but she used to see Bob quite often before. They were friends. Yeah, so that was amazing and you know I used to drive through Bourke Street to my work as well but didn't know there was Bob and obviously there were like lot of life happenings, you know nothing major but I would say you know why such things happen, few trust has been broken And then I read the, and it was a nice timing to, for me to read that greatest secret book and understand what it is.

Now I understand, but I still kind of sometimes struggle, you know, I lose track, you know, the mind always tries to take over, take over the awareness. I think that's where the struggle is. And I feel like for past four or five months, I've been wanting to attend the satsang or the online Zoom session. But somehow today, I felt like I should do it today. Today's the day. Morning I woke up and something told me I should do today. And then I joined. And it's an absolute, absolute, like, I thank, I thank so much that, and it's very nice to hear and reiterate the things that I learned.

And it's amazing. And the way I related the awareness is to the animals. You know, I related to animals. They don and you say the exact same thing and I feel so happy that I understood it in almost the correct way I wouldn say I 100 there but at least you know whenever I feel sad you know the animal is not going to feel bad Benyo if I call it something bad or if I break its trust That's not going to feel bad about it at all. It's all created, right? It's not gonna feel bad as far as it's getting the food, as far as it's getting the air, as far as it's able to breathe, it's fine.

It's really doing good. It doesn't, as you said, it only panics for the, let's say, thunder or any storm. Yes, but it knows what to do. It's not going to hurt anyone. I don't know how to say it, but it's exactly the same. And that's the awareness that, but for us, the mind took it over and it's still, still I'm struggling to get that mind of the awareness, you know, the external factors. And when the people surrounding us is not understanding, because this is not the human, normal human talk as per the society, it's, there is a little bit of, I don't know if I can call it a drama, But that's how I address it.

The mind just creates the drama. And I don't know if this is really rude to call it, but this is how I understood it. It's all trying to trick us with the drama where we don't really have to react for anything that's happening, that the mind created. We don't really have to react, spend energy on it. I kind of realized that it's us just holding on, you know, they're all just passing whatever the feelings or whatever the things that mind got. It's just us picking it and, oh, somebody hurt me. Okay, I will hold on to it, you know, until I feel sick, until I, you know, cry, I can just let it go.

But it's just the events and occasions. So, the greatest secret was really a big eye-opener for me and I'm so glad that I'm able to know about Bob and his online things. And first, I need to actually thank you for the great job that you guys are doing and I'm really glad to be in this moment and listening to you. Obviously, I still have questions. I'm still trying to understand, but I feel like I've talked a lot. Probably I'll give opportunities and again, when we come in a circle, I'm happy to, if there is a question session, I'll ask a couple of my questions towards the end.

Otherwise, maybe when you tell, I might get my answer when I listen further. I don't want to interrupt with questions. So yeah, that's my thing. That is so beautiful. I mean, gosh, I'm so glad that you've found the life actually showing you the way to that book and you actually saw the way it is pointing to the reality. And you see the struggle and I like your vocabulary. Yes, it is the mind trying to impose the drama on pure open space like awareness. And then that drama competing for attention and taking the whole stream of attention. You forgot that you are. I know, I know.

It's taking a lot of energy. While we have a thousand and hundred, you know, hundred thousand or one billions of joys around us, Hardly we watch the sunset or the sky or the beauty of the clouds. We don't have time. We spend a lot of energy in the drama. I started cloud gazing, star gazing, moon gazing. We are so little and instead of enjoying all those, We just spend a lot of time in drama as well. And I still do. And I still do. And I'm still trying, really struggling. But I think I'll get, I'll find my way soon. But I'm glad I'm just trying the baby steps.

You found your way. Look, this is a habit of focusing in the thinking. This is a habit that we learned as children by imitating our parents, schools, teachers, society. Everyone was constantly doing it. So you are completely innocent of having that habit and it doesn't break overnight. Something that you became master because you practice, practice, practice. I know, I know, I'm trying to practice, I'm trying to practice and it's really good, it's really great to continue the practice. I know there are a lot of challenges and distractions but really feeling great to continue the practice It just every time you recognize every time you recognize oh the mind is chatting but that not me that just an automatic chatter Ah, wonderful, I recognized it, I'm awake right in this moment.

When you see the chatter, you're awake. You can have five moments like this throughout the day. There are people who didn't have five moments throughout the 80 or 90 years of their lives. So you already on the highway to complete stabilization in realizing that there is just this being and the mind is doing its thing, but you don't really have to listen to the mind. The mind can just keep chatting and you may really enjoy that chatter. You may have fun with it. You may actually appreciate it. Like the mind is bringing up the big drama and you can say, wow, that's interesting. That's creative.

Oh, good on ya. You know, like seeing it as a little child trying to do some antics to get attention and just even give it to it. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, that's a, that's a very nice practice, you know, to turn around to the mind and say, oh, that's interesting. Good on ya. Brilliant. In this way you never need to actually, you never need to get out of it or you never need to stop the drama of the mind. You can just kind of make friends with it because this is just part of the landscape. The narrative, the commentary is part of the landscape. I tell you, since my commentary has diminished, like all the self-referential thinking dropped off like five and a half years ago, I need, I can't remember things.

Because the narrative used to repeat it in the head, now it doesn't. So I feel that part of my cognitive functions is gone, which is okay. But it is useful. Narrative can be a source of gratitude. That's what iPhones are for. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Train it. Nice. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, and also the fact that you actually naturally from your heart, you actually recognize that animals have that Buddha nature or that natural state already. And you look to them and you see what is that natural state without the language imposed drama because only humans have the narrative because we have symbolic language, we have symbols representing objects.

Animals can't think about objects because they can't have the symbols representing and they can't communicate it. So they basically are always present. And you kind of feel, because honestly, I never heard anyone pointing to it apart from Bob. And you actually find it through your heart. The life has shown you. Life has already shown you a way. So you are totally being sustained and held, you know, the same life that is breathing you and beating your heart is guiding you by your hand. How wonderful. Glad to know, glad to know. Thank you. Yeah, and yeah, really, really motivates me that I'm on the right path.

And yeah, looking forward to explore more. I'm very keen and exploring further. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, and that's the attitude. That's already the childlike curiosity, exploring. You see, this is another keyword. You are just so with it. Wonderful. Ah, thank you. It just kind of shines out of you already. Even without knowing. Oh, nice. It is about really exploration, you exploring the consciousness, the consciousness is enjoying itself, is learning itself, looking at itself, noticing, recognizing itself. So you basically just awake to whatever shows up, whatever the mind trying to steal the show. Oh, okay. I have a couple of questions but I will push that to the end probably until someone else wants to talk.

Look, nobody's on mute. Usually when people want to say something they unmute themselves so then we know someone's there. So it's all yours. It's just my work situation. I feel probably this place is not for me. And I'm getting plenty of LinkedIn messengers for new opportunities. I'm not looking for any, but I'm just getting plenty of messages. I am a professional. I am not sure how to deal with it Even if I know the answer you know just forget it divert the mind into something else Don think about it a lot I try but somehow the mind tries to I don know Of course, if it is important, if you make it really important.

And you know, change of career is a big thing, it's not a small thing. Mind makes it really important and it brings it into the point that this is almost as important as survival. Like, you know, it's be or not to be. It will be playing up, it will be coming up, that narrative. The best thing you can do is just be that consciousness, be that space and recognize, oh, that obsession came up again. Oh, again, we'll see, okay, five minutes, see how long it is going to last this time, because it will come with the anxiety. Okay, we'll see how strong it is from the scale from one to five, how obsessive that thought is.

In this way, you actually know that this is just a thought, it is not a reality, it is not the great important survival priority, it is just a thought. And the truth is, sometimes life will throw thoughts at you to move you somewhere else, and sometimes life will just move you. Like I can, I had a couple of messages throughout the day today from UK from a friend who is a good friend of Bob, Janine. Janine kept asking what made you decide for the knee operation? Bob is 92, almost 93 years old. There is a risk. What made you decide? Did you both decide or did Bob decide?

How did it happen? See, this is the thing. For some people it would be obsessive thinking for six months, thinking do it or not do it, do it or not do it. Oh my God, what am I going to do? Am I going to do it or not? And this goes with anxiety. We don't function that way, especially Bob who's got this 45 years behind him of clarity since he met Nisargadatta. So for him it was no thought, no thought, no thought. And then suddenly the knee started collapsing underneath him and he said, can you book me a visit with surgeon? So I took the phone and I booked the visit.

And two days later we've seen the surgeon. And the surgeon asked him, do you want to do the operation or you want to wait and give Denise a chance? I want to do it as soon as possible. End of story. And then again, no thinking. There was no thinking. To the last day yesterday we went to the hospital, half an hour before operation, I was holding his hand and reading him messages from people who were wishing him good luck and he was smiling, big banana of a smile on the face. Zero anxiety, zero stress, zero nervousness because he was so habituated to not focusing into those thoughts.

But there had to be a thought that told him, book me that visit with the surgeon. So this is how it happened. So with you it may be that, you know, the thinking, because this feels important, it will be coming up all the time. Oh my God, oh my God, you have to decide, you know, there are risks, should you do it, should you not do it? Oh my gosh, should you change the career? Or what if it's gonna be worse? Dada, dada, dada, dada. The mind will always come up as the greatest, most wonderful improviser in the world. If there is an anxiety in the body, mind will come up with ten stories about how is that anxiety valid.

But the fact is, there is a sensation and that sensation is not an anxiety. That sensation is self-care and self-love. This is the love of life telling you, oh, I want you to be okay. I care for you. So this is why this is shakiness in there, because this core of life of love doesn't want you to get in trouble. That's love. That's not anxiety. But the mind comes up with the story because it's a wonderful little tool. It's a helper. Look, I help you. I'll help you. I'll give you the exam. Oh, Great artist, great improviser. So whenever you see that mind coming into a picture, ah you again, okay, and you stay with the present sensation.

The anxiety, no, no, no, no, this is not an anxiety, this is just vibration of life. Why? Ah okay, I just care about myself, I care that I I do the right thing. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, that's self-love. That's self-care. That's wonderful. So instead of being anxious about what is going to happen, you recognize that self-care and self-love. And when you hear mind coming up with the story, what if you're going to have a boss that will bully you? Or what if you're going to be traveling? Or what if you hate it? Or what if you less? You know, that is help. This mind wants to make sure you are safe.

Don't take it too seriously because you're gonna get ulcer and reflux and you're gonna get cancer. Ultimately, you're gonna spoil yourself. No, I agree. The first thing affected is I get the back pain. There you go. Yeah, the energy goes there. Now I understood, now I have become aware the back pain is just gone. And there is the, you know, the constipation is still there. I just still have a lot of things to let go, to relieve out of that. But I understand what you mean, you know, how it affects our health. So I'm slowly getting into the pattern. Only thing is when it comes do or don't,

I was like, I don't know.

Can I just go with my instinct? If my instinct says do, so that's what happened this morning. I didn't think too much because it's been happening off late. I'm just saying, no, I'm not interested. I'm not looking for any new job. I'm happy the way the things are. And all of a sudden this morning, something happened in the work and I thought, should I look for the new job? And I got a message. Oh, there is an opportunity. I instantly replied and applied for that. I'm not sure what's going to happen there, but I still follow the instinct. And is it how we do or between the do and don'ts?

Just do at the moment? Absolutely. You just flow with life. Wherever there is more energy, more life, that's where you flow. It will feel on the individual level like this is me taking a very important decision. I can't get it wrong. I'm so afraid because this my life depends on it. All this is so serious. But this is only the narrative. The truth. There is no me taking any decision. There is just life moving the body somewhere. It may move it to the left and the I will say I did it. I did it, I choose the left and the body may move, the life may move you to go to the right and change the job or not change the job.

And again, I will say, oh, I did it wrong. I should have done something else. I shouldn't have done this. I did. I made a mistake. Dada, dada, dada. This is just the narrative. Forget about it. Life is the only force. If not for life, you couldn't even open your mouth and speak. If you think of the dead body, it has the voice box, but it can't speak. It can't make any decision. It can't do anything. So it really isn't the body. It isn't you. It is the life. Life moves you. Life pushes the energy towards the maybe new job or maybe just applying for the new job.

Especially when you are happy with the things you are, it usually is a sign that things are about to change or perhaps even get better. When you have the attitude of appreciating, that attitude gets habituated and there is more appreciation. So who knows, you may appreciate the new one or you may appreciate the old one more. It doesn't really matter what happens. You will know it by the end of your life when you're on a dead bed. You will know whether you went to the left or you went to the right. But right now, there is no way of knowing. Even if you desire to go this way, there is no way of knowing what happens because life is spontaneous.

It unfolds spontaneously. And every decision is not only dependent on you, but also on thousand other things cooperating. The weather, the hormones, the upbringing, the coworkers. A thousand things will contribute to whichever decision will be made, which energy will flow. And the narrative, whatever the head is saying, is just a commentary. You know, like football players, they're kicking the ball, running around, or cricket players. They are, you know, they are all very, very busy there. And the commentator there is reporting what's happening. The same with the mind. It only reports what is happening. But what is happening is the life moving the energy. Life takes the decision.

Mind only comes and says, oh, is it the right decision, is it the wrong, should I do it, should I not? It's only post-factum. It actually comes and they measure it. There was an experiment, scientific experiment that made the measurements. The body starts, the brain sends signals, starts creating the chemicals, pumping oxygen, cortisol and different chemicals in the body. The action already starts, the urge, let's say, to get up already starts, and then the narrative half a second later say, I am going to get up. But the body already started the movement, the pumping, oxygen, the blood pressure all already started. So this is how the whole world happens.

The decision will happen. Wherever the energy moves, the decision will happen there. And the narrative will come half a second later and say, I know what I'm going to do. I decided this. That's why the best thing to do is relax and trust the flow of life, because that's the authentic force behind everything. The awareness will do the job. Oh, beautiful. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was the answer, but still you know how the mind takes over. And it's so nice, you gave the beautiful answer in a different level of understanding. It was beautiful. Do we get the recording of this meeting at all or just wondering?

I have the recording, I can post it on my YouTube channel if you like, I can do it. Okay yeah if there is any way that you can share you know just wanted to hear these words again and again until it goes You have pleasure Until I let the mind You gotta acknowledge yourself that you actually already know innately that this is truth You know it, you hear it, and you, oh yes, oh yes, that's the answer for me. I know it. So, on the deepest level, on the level of your heart, you know. So that's... I'm just a reminder, but the truth is inside you.

You already know it, it's yours. That's because you are the one. Even though you are correct, you are right, the mind will keep coming, it will. Because that's its job, it has been trained to come up and give you the narrative, give you a little story, give you a little warning. Be careful, you're going to do something wrong. This is love, the mind is caring, it wants you to be okay. It wants you to be safe. How sweet, how nice. And this is such a beautiful message, you know, to become friends with mind. And it's always after this, I started saying mind as a monster, you know, oh, this is coming and trying to take over me.

But now after you said, yes, this is a friend and it's caring so much for me. And that's why it's trying to, you know, tell all the warnings or Whatever it is, because it cares for me and this is such a beautiful way to look at the mind and to communicate with, to interact with it, to make friends with it. It is so beautiful and it's such a great practice for me, done such a new thing for me to learn and it's really beautiful. Thank you. I actually learned that from Nisargadatta. Nisargadatta was Bob's teacher. And there was one quote which particularly moved me when I read it, when he said that everything is love.

And I was studying Course in Miracles before and I was thinking, yes, it sounds true. But how is that true practically? And then you start looking into it. I have a friend, a really dear friend, we used to study together, we were both ship's officers, he is a captain, he is working as a captain now. Lovely guy, obsessed about the competency, perfectionist, and because he has such high standards, he is always pissed off, he is always angry. He is always angry. Oh, why are you not doing it the right way? Oh, why don't you have change in that bakery shop? You stupid incompetent bitch! You should get up early, go to the bank, get the coins.

He is so angry. And as much as judgment he has about everyone, and he's really harsh, he's a lovely guy, he's got a huge heart, he's a husband of my dear friend. But as much as he has of that really horrible energy, I always, it's his birthday in couple of weeks, I always remind him, please, mellow a little bit because your crew is going to throw you overboard at night when you're going to be like this, pointing the slightest mistakes of everyone. But he is even worse for himself. He is even worse being harsh and judgmental and critical about himself. He does the off-road and he is sometimes driving his car in the mud.

If he judges the angle half of the degree wrong and he gets stuck in the mud, he literally dies in shame. He is so much pain, so much judgment towards himself. When I was looking at him and I was thinking, How is his inner critic a killer, a nasty Hitler inside his head? How is that a voice of love? And you can't understand it until you really go into somebody else's shoes and you see his absolute love for goodness, for perfection. The moment he sees everything as it should be, in a way his standards of perfection are, he just bleeds out. He loves that perfection so much that this judgmental voice, this critical voice is the voice of love for perfection and longing for that perfection.

If this, if this Hitler horrible monster could be coming from love, everything can. Everything can. If you think of the most cruel acts of people doing harm to other people out of pure selfishness, stealing from others or robbing others, what's the selfishness? That is what Nisargadatta was saying. Selfishness is love for the self, but the self is taken to be a little phantom, little imagined me inside, instead of the self, the totality of the awareness. Because if you understand what the self is, love for the self is love for the whole manifestation. If you think the self is this then you become selfish Love for the self is to steal take from others and add to the self So desire for knowledge is love for the self Desire for safety is love for the self Desire for money for wealth is all love for the self But now I think the self is this little thing, rather than the open field of awareness or consciousness.

So, it's just a small error, but the behind it is still self-love, it's still that love. Beautiful. Beautiful. And then also loving the mind, loving the ego, loving the personality, loving your flaws, your shames, your little miss-ups, mismatches and mistakes makes them light, makes them laughable, makes them easy, takes the seriousness out of them. I am not a slave of them, because whatever you make serious, you become slave of. Suddenly you are a slave of that horrible ego that I have to get rid of and kill it. Who would be killing it? I am still ego killing the ego and what you left with still the ego.

It's not the way. Julia, she appeared and disappeared. Julia is a great lover. I mean she is a love junkie. Her religion is love. She hates Donald Trump so she decided to love him out of the throne. Because love kills the ego, love kills the fear, love kills everything. I was laughing at her because of course love is not the weapon that is killing, it is just relaxing the tension. But that's it, she doesn't wish anyone bad, she is lovely. So that recognizing that mind as always just wanting to support you, just to, you know, that kind of gives you that warm feeling rather than, oh, God, I got to try harder.

I got to do more. I'm not good enough. I'm not trying. I'm not practicing enough. I'm not being with it enough. You are. Life is doing all of it. You just recognize how life is leaving you, how life is moving the energy to go this way or that way. Life is bringing the reminders when, ah, yeah, right, I remember. That's, yeah, that awareness or that life or that God, whatever like, whatever word, Rhonda is using a word awareness and that's a good word. Because awareness is... there is a Hindu word that Bob really likes. Sorry, it's not the words, it's the three words, three factors, Sat Chit Ananda, which is awareness of being and stillness or bliss.

So awareness is there, the being, existence of awareness or awareness of presence or being consciousness, bliss, awareness consciousness. It doesn't matter, they're just words. But whatever word is actually touching your heart, that is the reminder, that is the anchor. And Rhonda uses awareness, that's her word. Bob also uses that word often. I like the love, the life, the God, whatever. It is really the I am, it is the presence. It is not really it, it is not out there. The awareness is with you right now, you are aware right now. You are the awareness. It's not my awareness, it is I-awareness. It's always there. Beautiful, amazing, really amazing.

It's such a heartwarming message because it tells you, it shows you that you are already complete. Everything that is happening is already perfect as it should be. Even the voice of narrative is just the voice of caring self-love. Everything is already... You can just relax and see where life is going to take you because it is going to be... Life is always throwing stuff, you know? There will be another winter, another summer, another day, another night, a lot of things. Life, there will be sickness, there will be pain. All of it will show up because life is delighted in experiencing and they have to be pleasant and painful and happy and sad.

They have to be all of them because without the pain, there is no pleasure. Without the day, there is no night. So all of it will be there. But knowing that this is true. Yeah, it's just like animals, they have days and nights pain and pleasures. And yeah. Oh, so amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was more than I expected. It all fell in one place. I wasn't thinking, I've been knowing this for a while and wanted to attend for a while, but just this morning, do it. And I did it, I registered. And the whole day was just with the flow.

Apply for the job, yes apply, don't think, just apply. And that what happened Whatever I did no thinking just do it And I accepted whatever the result is I accepted with full heart And I was a little bit struggling there but this definitely gave me an answer. And just so amazing how I wanted to attend this today out of all of those days and how the events followed. And yeah, such a beautiful message. And thank you, thank you so much for your time. Out of all the, you know, with Bob at hospital, it's amazing and thank you, thank you so much. And of course, you have that ability, that awareness for you to understand what is happening around you.

That's Bob. Amazing. And you have it really shining. Keep acknowledging it inside you because it's really shining through. It's gorgeous. That's why it is so easy to look at the head because it resonates, it finds home. I wish Bob a speedy recovery. All my love to him and you. I'll see him tomorrow morning and let him know. Be happy. I just wanted to say I'll head off. Thank you so much, Kat. Thank you for the beautiful questions too, really enjoyed it. Appreciate it. Thank you for being with us, and thank you for helping and offering help. Thank you. Okay, all the best. Yes. Thank you.

So there is... I googled for Sailor Cat on the channel. I don't mind. Thank you. Thank you for really contributing to it because it's just so much nicer to enter a conversation rather than just do the monologue. Definitely. Awesome. Thank you so much for the space for me to open and talk or discuss stuff, tell about my situation. It was so beautiful, such a beautiful session and obviously beautiful heart. I'm so excited and very thankful, very very thankful for the whole evening and yeah have a good night. I wish speedy recovery for Bob and all our love from the whole family, from my kids, from my husband, from my mom, everyone from the family.

Thank you, thank you. Are you in Australia or? Yeah, in Melbourne. I'm in Melbourne. Oh, wonderful. When Bob comes back, you can actually, yeah, come here. Would love to, would love to. Can't wait, yeah. Oh, someone is asking some question, probably I'll let you. Yeah, I'll just answer that. JP, Bob is in the hospital right now. Now he had the knee operation. So you will definitely be able to speak with him, but he has to come home first. It will be anything between two and four weeks. I hope for two weeks, but it may be three weeks. He is on very strong drugs right now and he's not really taking any calls.

But he will be home and he'll be happy to talk to you. You can also send an email. So we will actually, when we know closer, come, because I usually type his emails anyway. He's got a little bit of a Parkinson's, so he doesn't do the typing. He's dictating emails, that's his emails, but I'm just secretary. So yes, we'll organize that you could have a Skype call with him and he'll be happy. He likes one on one. And no, I mean, afterwards, even to talk to you on the phone. Thank you so much. We will try to join more satsangs and wish to meet you soon.

Have a good night everyone. See ya. Thank you. Bye.