Sailor Bob, Kat and Group - on dying and being. 28 March 2021

Well, it's the same old thing we talk about, what they call, they've got all sorts of names everywhere, but the current one is non-duality, or Advaita. Advaita, non-duality, translated means it's one without a second, not two. Everything is that. And that's the great mantra, or the great Mahavaki, the great word, I am that. And innately everybody knows that. You say that's the chair, that's the table, that's the house, that's the space. Everything is that which we put the labels on it, the names and forms, and take the word or the label to be the thing. But the label is not the thing. The thing is the thing.

The thing is the pattern, shape and form. They call it Sat Chit Ananda Nama Rupa. Existence, consciousness, loving to be, and the Nama Rupa is the body and mind, and all the other patterns, shapes and forms. And have a look at that. All this manifestation is appearance only. They say the name and form are Maya. They say the name and form are illusion. Everything is that, the one without a second. So you look out there in nature, see all these things which we put labels on, name and form. But it's all Maya. It's all illusion. Seemingly so, seemingly real, and it is real, but not as it appears.

It's all made up of the one essence, which I call, for want of a better term, I don't use it. I don't use it. I don't use the term God, or, I put the label on it, intelligence energy. I don't use the term God because we can get confused with that term. We all come from different traditions. Some of you might be atheists. Some of you are agnostics. Some of you are Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, or Jews, or whatever. And so if I start talking about God, you're a... Related to whatever traditional belief you've got. Some will like it, and some won't like it because it doesn't fit their pattern or traditional belief.

So, but intelligence energy, nobody can negate that. Because it's an activity of knowing. Every one of you is knowing right now. And the knowing is intelligence. And intelligence is knowledge. It's an activity. And an activity is a movement. It's sound, words, vibrations, or whatever. It's all an activity. It's all the activity of knowing. And existence, consciousness, bliss, or patterning, is being, knowing, and knowing to be. So is there anyone who is not knowing right now? Or not being? Not happy to be? So you see from that, you are already that. Existence, knowing, and happening to be. But we've taken the label, the name and the form, to be real.

Instead of seeing that pure being or pure knowing is absolute. It's a totality. And now we put the label, I am, on it. They're words we've learned or picked up. And words, sounds, sounds are vibrations. Vibrations are a movement of energy. So it's still part of that. It's the same as that intelligence energy. The activity of knowing. And the name and form. Where do the names come from? And they come from words which have been picked up along the way. How many of you were born with words? That's why you can't remember your birth. Because you had no words when you were born. And you didn't learn words until you were about two.

Two and a half. Somewhere around that age. Different. For different people. Different. Some are smarter than others. Some learn words quicker. And those words we learn, we learn that sense of presence, which translates through the mind as the primary thought. I am. Means the sense of presence. Which translates as that thought. I. And your parents put the label on you. I am Bob. I am Jane. I am this. I am that. And we take that to be the person. The persona. That's another word from the Latin. Which is the mask. Means a mask. From the ancient Latin. So now when we say I am this person.

We take it on the label which is like a mask. That disguises our true nature. Covers it over. And so. But the word's not the real. Take the word water. Can you drink it? Can you swim in it? When you drown in it? You can't. Does the word fire burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you eat yourself with it? You can't. The words of how we communicate. With the language. With the words. Are. The animals and birds and insects don't have any words. They communicate. Which is sound. With sound. Sound, noise and vibration. We've got a bit more sophisticated than that. We use the words to put different meanings in things.

But the word's not the real. Never was. Never will be. And with the words coming out of the mouth there. Trying to express something or explain it. From this point of understanding. Whether it's correct or whether it's not. Who knows? Who cares? People can resonate with it or reject it. But there's a, in the resonation there is an inner knowing. Innate knowing. You can't say it's inner or outer. That's the label. That everyone is knowing right now in this moment. And it's not will knowing, will know or was knowing. It is happening. It's happening right in this immediacy. It's an activity that's going on presently.

In that basic screen which we call awareness. Wakefulness. Everything is that. With the learning of words. Taking on this conceptual image, this mask. We then say I am Bob. I am the person. I am this. I am that. What's that I am? What's I? The sense of presence. The immediacy of this presence awareness. Translated as the thought. I am. And that's the great mantra. I am that. And what does that imply? When you look around innately you know that everything is that. But again, it's been separated by the word. That's the tree. That's the flower. That's the bird. That's the insect. That's you. That's me.

And innately it's known as the absolute. Everything is that. Never been separate. But because we've taken on this word, this persona, the I am has now become the seeming person. This seeming pattern, shape and form. And so we've seemingly separated ourselves with the word. So we need, we don't know we about it. In this case it needed to be investigated. Though it didn't know it needed to be investigated. Until all the misery and all the unhappiness and all the fear and anxiety and stress came up and all labels put on it. All those labels put on it. Fear, anger, depression, guilt. And then it was no longer the natural.

The natural, spontaneous, intelligence, energy. It was that. But we've discriminated with the labels. And lost sight of that true nature. And we've taken this I am, this sense of presence to be what I really am. Instead of seeing that it is the one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. So it's only that. So even though it mightn't be seen at this moment. Realise that when you look around and see everything has that. And you are one of the things in that everything. Because that's all this manifestation is. Made up of things. You're a thing, I'm a thing, the tree's a thing, the sky's a thing, the stars are things, the space is a thing.

Which we've put together. Which we've put the label. The labels we've learned are required when the capacity of reasoning developed. As I said before, you can't remember your birth. Because you didn't have any words then. And with the words which you learned from your parents, after you're around about two, two and a half, whatever, and you've learnt your first words, then you lost sight of your natural state. Because up until that point, you didn't know any words, but you were seeing, you were hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, functioning was going on, breathing, heart beating, without the word. You learnt the word, the capacity of reasoning developed along with that, and you reasoned, I am this little Johnny, or little Jane, or little Billy, or whatever the name was you put on yourself.

Instead of being, I am that absolute, I am that one essence, which is indivisible, which is inseparable. It's the absolute totality. Now we've taken on the persona. The mask. The conceptual image. And, as I said, in this case, and most all other cases, when the person, the so-called person, believes in that, and reinforces it, they lose sight of the true nature. And with that sense of separation, comes insecurity. Because now we feel we're separate. And vulnerability, we feel vulnerable. Because we've taken on this sense of separation. Now, instead of being the absolute, I am Bob. It's person, it's fearful, it's anxious, it's unhappy, it's sad, there are all other concepts we've added on, which we've picked up in the language.

And with the sensations that come up, we've labelled these sensations as feelings, emotions, thoughts. We're totally in this conceptual state. But even in that, there are tastes of your true nature. And each and every one of us have had tastes of that, where everything seemingly fall into place, and was going along naturally and effortlessly, and then didn't last long, because the habit of thinking had taken over. Why? Because everybody around us had that same habit pattern. And they can hear. Where, with the capacity of reasoning, we're getting a taste of something beyond that, and that might be settled for a little while, but then something will come up and pull you out of it, and you suck back in, to the way the old habits go.

So it's got to be recognised again and again and again. Recognise. It's another term. They call it the cognising emptiness. That emptiness has the capacity of cognising, or knowing. And the Buddha told you that. The so-called Buddha, whoever he was, if he was, or not if he was, part of the history and things like that, he told us that that emptiness is form. All these patterns, shapes and forms that are around, all these things are patterns, shapes and forms. And the emptiness is form, and these forms are nothing but the emptiness. Though they're seemingly something else, they're still only that, emptiness. And that emptiness is suffused with cognising, or knowing, or awareing, or seeing or hearing.

It's a cognising emptiness. It's not the we that are cognising it, it's the emptiness that's doing the cognising. And to do that cognising, it needs patterns, shapes and forms to express through. Oh, as the Absolute, what can I say? You can't add anything to the Absolute, you can't take anything away from it. It's just as it is. We put these labels on it and form it in different patterns, shapes and forms, and realise that this is not good enough after a while because all these fear, anger and all these psychological problems are coming up. And we've lost sight of our reality, and there are people down through the ages who have recognised it.

And they've pointed it out to a few, and a few have heard it. And that's when the religions and great traditions are formed. Out of people who have heard it, because they set them up, the people who have understood it and are trying to pass it on, still totally hearing what they're saying. They've attributed that they are saints, sages, saviours, seers of God, and even Christians, even. Set them up as that. And what has happened then? They've worshipped the Messenger and lost sight of what they were pointing out, the message itself. And the message itself is still the same as it always was. You are already that.

You are that presence. You are that awareness. And isn't that so? Anyone who is not aware right now, and you must realise, no, I am aware. Anyone who's not seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling right now, that's all happening. But it attributes to, I am seeing, I am hearing, I am tasting. Not that it's happening. The seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is happening spontaneously and naturally. Put the description on it, what we think it is, with the words, concepts, and lose sight of it. Because it's all a phenomenal appearance. It's only seemingly appearance. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. An appearance is seemingly so.

Have a look at some of the appearances around you. It all seems very true, very real. But investigate it. Have a look and see. And realise it all falls apart under the investigation. And realise there's nothing static out there or in here, anywhere at all. It's all constantly transient. It's a vibration. It's a movement of energy. It's a fuse with intelligence or knowing. And it's vibrating into all these different pattern, shapes and forms. All things that are now seemingly substantial and solid. Basically, appearing on the seeming screen of no-thing. Space or silence or stillness. Put those labels on it. Or awareness. Put that label on it.

Or consciousness. Put all these labels on it. But none of the labels are offended. Basically, it's all no-thing. A cognising emptiness. Forming and patterning and shaping everything. So is there anything that can be separate from that? There is not. So when you say, I am that. See what that is. The pure sense of presence. The knowingness. The beingness. Well, that's your true nature. And when you say, I am that. And think the person. Or the me. The I am is a person. But I am is the sense of presence. The knowing that you are. A sense. A feeling. And this is now this thing mind functions when you look into it.

Thought. Feeling. Emotion. Three aspects of the one thing. Thought is a very, very subtle. Vibration. Sound. Vibration is sound. Word. Energy. Vibrates. And that is just like a musical, like a string on a violin or a guitar or something. It makes a sound. And that sound is just noise. But it can be translated into a musical note. And great songs and what do you call music? All different varieties of music can come up and pair them up. But it is still just a vibration. A movement of energy. All the words, all the thoughts, all the wonderful things that can seemingly be appear through this mind, this knowing mind, is still just the same.

A vibration. A movement of energy. But it is a wondrous, amazing intelligence that is infused with us. It can do all of these things. It can shape and form in all of our emotions. It can shape and form in all of our, in all of the diversity that it does. Amazingly so. And it even formed that pattern, shape and form we call the body. And the mind. Which is a way, that is pattern, shape and form. And all the organs and nerves and whatever else is made up of in there. That is amazing. It is wondrous. And look outside. Seemingly outside. You will see the space out there.

The sky. The sun. In the, when the absence of light and the darkness, there will be stars, planets, satellites or whatever they are. Galaxies. And everything in that space, seeming space like I, which is empty. There is no thing. All these things are forming, coping. It implies that the whole of this manifestation is infused with an amazing, wondrous intelligence. And I'm not talking about your intellect. Yeah, no, intellect is another pattern, shape and form expressing it through it. Everything is infused with that intelligence. A knowing. Or an awareing. Or a seeing. A hearing. All that. And you are nothing other than that. Thinking, seeing, feeling, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling.

Is there a thinker? Thinking? And you postulate. A thinker? You might think this person, that's what we believe till we investigate, is thinking. But thinking is happening. Have a look at it. What's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me. But thinking, so the thoughts come up. They come up, they appear in that pattern that you are. But we translate it with the thought, oh now we've got this I on it. I think. So we form a subject. A thinker. I am the thinker. And I'm thinking this thought. Whatever the thought might be. Not realising the thought is appearing. Now we've taken delivery of the I think the thought.

So the thinker is the subject. I think. And the thought, which is appearing in that thinking, becomes the object. So we've divided the indivisible into thinker and thought. And can there be a thinker without thinking? You look at that and you realise there comes a thinker. If there's no thinking going on, can there be the thought without thinking? There can't be the thought without the thinking. So thinker and thought have now become subject and object. Me as the thinker and the thought as the object. There can't be a thinker without thinking. So the thinking is the actuality. The thinker and the thought are just two ends of the same stick.

A vibrating pattern appearing as opposites. Thinker and thought, the division happening in the indivisible. Same with the seeing. The hearing. The tasting. The touching. The smelling. The feeling. ING on it. Something is happening right in this knowingness right now. Find it in the seer and seen. Thinker and thought. Feeler and felt. Taster and touched. Tasted. And all this manifestation appearing is seemingly real because of that. Same sort of thing happens in a dream, doesn't it? You go to sleep at night and something will stir in that sleep when everything is still in abeyance in deep sleep. Something will stir. And the fattening will start again.

And in that dream you can bring into it the hills, the sea, the cities, the sky, the clouds, everything can appear in that dream. And all sorts of activities and knowing, that's happening to the believed in you. And that believed in you is doing all sorts of things and thinking and all sorts of things. But what happens when you wake up? Where does the dream go? Doesn't it disappear? And along with it, the hills, the mountains, the rivers and everything else that happened in the dream, the people, they all disappear with it. And you wake, seemingly awake now, and you realize my body never moved off the bed.

I wasn't walking around in the dream. My body knows. No words came out of my mouth. I'm awake. And I'm on the bed. And I'm in the house. Or wherever I'm in. And there are hills and things all outside again, where they've disappeared into there. Now they're in the real. And this waking state is a waking dream. The only difference you can tell between the sleep at night and this is that the waking dream, this dream, seemingly has a continuity. It seems to continue on from where it left off last night. This morning it seems to continue on again. And it seems to continue on.

And it seems a bit more solid and real and substantial than the sleeping dream. And it's all appearing in that pattern you call the body-mind. And how solid is that? How solid and substantial is this body? When you innately label it, my body. And who's this my, or me, you're alluding to? Instead of being the absolute reality, it's alluding to this vibrating pattern of energy. The same in person. It's seemingly so. But are you this body? Investigate that, have a look. As you say, you know, innately again, you know it's not the body. Because you say my body. Like you say my house, my car, my coat, my hat.

You know you're not the coat, the hat, the car, or the house, or anything. And maybe you're not the body either, if you investigate that. And look again and see. What's this body made up of? You'll realise it's made up of elements. Made of air, earth, fire, water, space. Like all those elements appearing out there in that cognising emptiness. See if you can separate yourself from those elements. Stop breathing. Stop beating your heart. It wouldn't last too long. Take the fire. The body heat. The body temperature. Take the water out of your body. Take all these elements out. What's the body then without the elements?

Isn't it a corpse? And isn't that corpse going to break down? It can't pattern, shape and form. It breaks down from that pattern into the pure elements. Back to its true nature. You say my mind. Have a look and see if you are the mind. When you investigate you can't... Nobody can show me a thing called mind. And have a look and see if there is such a thing as mind. And you realise again through your capacitive reasoning that there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. It's all appearing in that thinking. Mind is thought. And what is thought? Thought's a word. Word's sound.

Sound's a vibration. Thought is a vibrating pattern of energy. There's no such thing as mind either. So you're not the body, you're not the mind. You're still that one essence. Now the way the mind vibrates, it's always vibrating in the opposite. See how that functions with the words we picked up. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. What are we dividing? We divide the word. They seemingly divide in the thinking. But what are you without a thought? What is wronger? What is wrong? Ask yourself that. Because what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Can you say it's good without a thought?

Can you say it's bad, pleasant, painful, or happy or sad? You can't. So it's the words or the label that seeming separation. And the words not the real. So though it appears to be real, this body-mind, this manifestation, it's still that one life essence. Take the life out of the body. And you've got a cause. That cause starts to break down. Intrugation has stopped. Disintrugation starts to break it down. But it's still got eyes before it breaks down. It's still got eyes, ears, heart, lungs, kidneys, liver. All the organs are there that enliven it and keep it focusing. But there's not a bit of good with it without that life.

It's that life that animates them. It presses through and animates them and keeps them going. Sensience. Without that sense, you know, that's not good. Sensience goes back into the essence again. Disappears. It's a constantly fattling shape and forming in all its variety and all its diversity. And you are that. And everybody has had taste of it. You wouldn't come along here if you weren't dissatisfied with what's been happening previously before the search started. It's made that search come about through that pattern. To recognize what it's always and ever been, which it's never left. The one essence fattling, shaping and forming. And they call that self-realization, enlightenment or awareness or godliness.

We've even labeled that and discriminated it. And so we're looking for something with the word labels on it. Instead of recognizing it. Instead of recognizing it. It's that which is. Right here and right now. Is is not was. It's not what will be. It is this vibrant is-ness. Being-ness. Knowing-ness. Just this. Nothing else. Instead of trying to become something which implies again a future time and some effort. That can be made to become realized or to recognize when the natural recognition is going on right now. The natural way. It doesn't work. It's the one self fattling, shaping, forming, experiencing, expressing and everything. And you are that self.

And you're looking for the self. How do you think you're ever going to find it? It doesn't happen. So that's what needs to be recognized and seen. And people are having taste of it. People are having taste of it all the time. Just to stabilize in it. Drop the old patterning, shaping and forming and belief in it. I meant to say that you won't use that thing called mind. But not in the personal sense. When it uses you, it causes a problem. When you believe you are the self. You separate yourself. And that brings up all the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the remorse.

All the psychological suffering comes. All happening to the believed in me. So me is the cause. The belief in the me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. And that's the so called cause and effect. The effects are the fear, the anger, the depression, the unhappiness, the other things that go on. They're the effects of the cause me. Isn't that what they call karma? Cause and effect. They're telling you all the time. You know? Being caused. Cause only can be caused when you believe into something separate there. Can the absolute split us off? You know, it'll appear in all the different ways. It's never really split us, divided us, or separated us.

So you are that. I've been rambling on long enough. Getting sick of it? No. It's your chance. Take it. And tell us all about it. what you know, what you recognise. Or if you still have some doubts or questions, ask the questions. Find out for yourself. You know, you can say it's a lot of bullshit, but make sure it is recognised. And if you do investigate, you'll recognise the false is false, because the false cannot stand up to investigation. That's what needs to happen. And investigating. So, get into it. I wonder if we may say our names again, because quite a few people came late, and we may be waiting for Adrian.

Maybe, Bob, you could start then, from the question that we didn't answer last week, because it was over time already. It was Chris, I don't know if you remember. Chris is a man in his early 50s. I was working at sea with him. And he is... He's a sweet man. His nickname is Buddha, because he's got this Buddha smile and a little bit of a Buddha belly. And really, as much as I don't socialise at sea, and I don't really have more than a handful of people that I was working, Chris Buddha was a man who actually grabbed your heart. And right now, he is in a situation where he only wrote a brief note that he's got a mortal illness, and he is kind of leaving.

That's... That's a real human form. And how do you deal with the situation when you have... Bob briefly answered that as well, which was a really lucid answer. You said, oh, you are not far out either. This is what you said. But you are 92 and a half, and Chris is 50. And do you have any suggestion? How do you actually deal with perhaps... I don't know what it is there that is the most bothering, is it the fear of dying, which is the love for life, or is it the... Because, you know, that thought of dying, physical body dying, is linked to survival. That will be quite strong, reoccurring, bothering thought, would you...?

Yeah. From what I understand now, I'd ask myself, who is it happening to? And the obvious answer to that is happening to me. But then, wait a minute, what is this me? Haven't I seen through it? Is there a person there? Or is there only life here, patting, shaving and so on? And I've realised and recognised there's only life. There's not a person or life. There's no one living in life. It's totally life. Life lives on life. And out of life, more life comes. And... And when the pattern breaks down and disintegrates, where does it go? If it's all the one essence, it must go back into that one essence, the same life.

You know, this is not reincarnation, because there was nothing carnated or created in the first place. It only appears to be so. But the pattern, shapes and storms appear in the marriage of different lives again and again. That's why there can be, in some of the patterns, basic images or some sense of something that's happened previously, or a thing like that. But it's all coming out of the same totality, the same oneness. Endless and endless. I don't know, that mightn't suit a lot of people, but... That's the truth. That's the truth of it. Also, the reality of that present moment, which is always all there ever is.

The contextualised... The contextualising that, oh, I'm old and I'm dying, or I'm at the end of life, or I'm sick. Those are... And they're not to be dismissed. But those are stories. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Who was I just one second before that thought came to the mind? I'm just the being. And then the thought comes and tells me what being I am. I'm the body and I'm going to die. Or the thought comes and says, oh, I'm fearful because I love life. I want to see the cherry blossom. It might be a pain in the neck. You can't do it.

And then the thought comes and says, oh, I'm fearful because I love life. Oh, I'm afraid of death. Well, I'm afraid of death. I'm afraid of my life. And that's the way... And that's the way to do it. So, it's not that I'm scared of anything. It's just that I'm afraid of the fact that I have to I'm afraid of the fact that I have to be in my fear. I don't have to... I don't want to die. I want to be in my fear. So, I think that's really important. of dying if you know who you are and if you don't tell yourself that you are limited body because body yes it will expire it is inevitable every form in nature has beginning and an end it changes but knowing who you are and we had also we had a couple of girls i don't know if you remember they came to the group two ladies who were working in hospices and telling giving people the plant medicine experience which instantaneously relieved for good any fear of dying because they had to taste the glimpse of that timelessness of being and it completely the time they had left whatever it was was a few weeks or was it few months was a fearless experiencing the present experiencing of being which is doesn't need the plant experience to actually recognize that only when you think you suffer yeah i got no fear of death but how i die i might be worried about hanging up hanging up for the book by the balls for a week and that's and that's also increase for you also there are ways to address the the pain as well because physical pain is is so uncomfortable it's like you can call it sensation as much as you want but it's but they are ways and you may be moved by life to address the physical you know hanging by the balls or whatever the pain whatever the pain is it can also be addressed and questioned and you will be moved how to do it recognize where where where am i going to go where did i come from yeah out of space through through the parents who appeared out of space through the parents so it goes on and where are you going to go where does the rain after it's evaporated by the sun goes up the forms are cleared drops back into the river where's it go back to the ocean where it was evaporated from in the first place i'm thinking about the cover from um was it the cover of i and that isn't it doesn't this are godotas saying like the beginning of i in the cover of i am that he's saying it doesn't matter how long right in the cover of i'm that it says it's it said something like it doesn't matter how long i don't know you can look it up um but i don't remember and and the one with the yellow and black that one that i am that yeah um i would imagine that if you're if you're 92 or you're 85 or whatever it would be a little bit because i think there's an expectation that we have that there's a supposed to with that this body is supposed to last until you're in your 90s or 80s or something and you're supposed to have you know um the 2.5 kids the house with the picket fence the grandkids the all the there's all these supposed to's that would make us i don't know maybe more or less upset at it but that's again the story isn't it and then we're supposed to well if you let the living go on naturally spontaneously and then lately what it tells you a lot of these things wouldn't happen but they're all happening here it's breaking down so what it's the trap in the fear of the close association with the body you know that's that we take ourselves to be a body and that we know that the body passes and that's the association that it all ends with the body going but when you know that you are not the body and you yeah you you realize that what you are you have always been anyway so that's seeing it but that's the trap that i am the body yeah there is tanya here saying and she's quoting terry here or a thousand other people who said that the body is not screaming out i'm separate the body doesn't experience separation body doesn't even see or think you want to come in only life he says there's nobody who lives on life and he says life lives on life where is the room for death in it whatsoever no terry said cat what was it uh the body doesn't scream i'm separate the other good one is death is only a concept you can only think of the idea can can you say it again the other thing is death is only a concept you know you can only think about death and imagine what it is or what it isn't but there's no knowing death that life doesn't know death absolutely absolutely life doesn't know death no it can you experience death what would be experiencing it would it be even death i don't know what his name arthur kristler or something on the land he was a wrote a couple of books anyway he was in the spanish civil war and uh on the uh what do they call it the the group that group that put up with divide against cranko and he's really franco and he's here she I went on to write many books.

I've come across the notion that the moment of consciousness before death is super important. And I think it says that in the Gita as well, the Bhagavad Gita. So do you have any understanding of that? And I guess I had the thought like who is aware before that moment, right? So I guess I kind of may answer the question. But yeah, can you maybe talk on that, those final moments before death as maybe that opportunity to dissolve if someone does it consciously compared to unconsciously? If you don't remember your birth, your first breath, do you think you'll remember your last? This is my last breath.

Oh, hang on a minute. No, it's this one. In response to that question, my mother died and my auntie was at a bedside. And my mother was sitting up in bed. She was asleep most of the time. She was awake some of the time. She had an oxygen tube. She had a nose. And she'd been telling everyone that she's just about ready to go. And she was pretty bored with life by that time. And my auntie said she suddenly woke up, opened her eyes, and she said, oh, and closed her eyes, and she was gone. So it was no big surprise that last. So it was a great moment.

I have a couple of questions here that have appeared from my phone. One is Tanya. Seeing appears to be located at a point thought calls the head. There is no experience of a head, but a head is seen in a mirror. No one's seeing, but seeing seems to come from a viewpoint. What is the actual experience, Bob and Kat? How to see? Through this belief of the seeing being located from the viewpoint. I might have asked this before, so thank you if you get the chance to answer this question. You want to comment on that? It seems like you're looking from the, you know, from your own face.

It seems like there is a location. Yeah. Oh, what face have you got for a start off when you look at that? Yes. All appears on the screen. I don't know. I don't know. There is no point or centre anywhere in that patterned body of mind that you can say, this is where it all begins. You can't find a point anywhere. They say it's here. Have a look at that where you think the here is. It's up here or down here or over here. Have a look, follow it back and see if you can find any static point anywhere where it begins. No static point because it's constantly transient.

Everything is transient, constantly changing. changing. So that even life, it only lasts a moment, not even that. It's timeless. I would also add that what is actually wrong with having that perspective of the angle because if you have an idea that you should have kind of a blurred unlocated sort of a seeing or perhaps have experience of seeing from another angles, that's also possible. But that's really not necessary because if you look at the enlightened being like that cat lying down here, one here, one there, they also to navigate, to go through the door, to climb the tree, they do have the location for that device.

Now when you look from the perspective of the body and try to get out of that location, well that's already a wrong assumption. But think of the perspective of space-like awareness. You are that space. You are that open field of knowing being and appreciating the knowing and being, loving to be. And now ask the space, completely devoid of any sense of separation, vibration, being totality, being everything. Experiencing is not there. There's nothing to experience. For the experience to appear, they have to be a background and the vibration on it. So ask the space. Subtitles by the Amara.org community you transform the pure energy of being into the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

You give yourself that vehicle called the body-mind and through that vehicle now the experience become tangible. Now you have colors, now you have tastes, flavors, smells. They don't exist. They only appear to be. But without that vehicle, instrument, they wouldn't even appear to be. So actually from the space perspective, you have to have a perspective to appreciate the perspective, the view that you have your own musical taste different than the other. You have your own skin tone different than the other. Tastes, dreams, flavors, personalities, all of this. Ask the space to experience variety, diversity. Then the question, how do I overcome it? How do I stop seeing, hearing, flavoring?

You don't really want to do that anymore. Would you like to lose the taste or smell or eyesight? No, it's actually beautiful to have. I think there was also another answer I've seen down below, but I didn't have the chance to read it. I'll just have a look at this. Oh yeah. Thank you. I just think for me, some confusion exists between... You know how the Buddha's book... What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? Buddhists talk about anatta, no self. And the Hindus, even though that's a colonial term, but the Hindus say all there is is self.

This, there's a confusion of language there for me. And I hear it between you two as well, like Bob and maybe that's very Advaita Vedanta, but there is sort of like almost a Buddhistic conception of reality where, you know, there is no self. And then when you go to Kat, it's very much sort of like you are the space that everything exists on. And so it's just an interesting thing, because for centuries they debated, the Buddhists and the Hindus, between, well, there's no self. And then, you know, and the Hindus are saying, well, all there is is the self. And it's just a, it's only a language thing for sure, but just an interesting, because...

Because for me, I think it's when I hear, for me there is a self. And just, yeah, I know, because I have, you know, some mates that like Buddhism and it's just interesting, you know, like no self, I am everything. Just sort of an interesting note, yeah. This is such a great distinction. People get so attached to emptiness or so attached to fullness and love. And the way is beyond language. Yeah, and it's like a devotion. Yes. Jnana and bhakti. Yes. Sorry, no, you're all right. This is great. I love bringing those paradoxes and contradictions in, because they collapse the language and they show that there is really no way to appropriately present it in words, because words always have the opposite.

Yeah. Thank you. And I find that answer, I think that was from Rohan, because he always brings some really good aspects. And now he says, as Douglas Harding would say, the mirror is out there. The actual experience of seeing from here is completely at odds to what appears out there in the mirror. We imagine that we are limited to what is seen out there in the mirror, but we are the entire scene, not just the form that appears in the mirror. Absolutely. And now, yes, that's so beautiful. Tanya is saying, beautiful, Rohan, what a great quote. It seems it is only thought that is dividing, only thought that says, I am only the form.

That's so true. And now we have a request from John to talking on stabilize, stabilize. And request. And request. Richard is saying, from nine pieces of Zen, if one examines the appearance of phenomena with reason, nothing is as ultimately found. That unfindability is the true nature of things. How beautiful. And Nasser, who we are is infinite beingness. Does it matter to infinite if a body comes and goes? And now Chris is answering. You both are such beautiful and kind souls. I'm very much looking forward to every opportunity. Chris, this is another message. You can actually get to Bob's website and find us on Skype, because I have some things to share, like really nice documentary of alternative options for healing.

If there is, you know, who knows? Just find us on Skype and we can have a conversation. Thank you. And we can have a private session and see what else we can come up with. And now I see if we have any more requests from here. No. Anyone have anything to add? Sorry. So there's this kind of, when Kat was talking about how the cats were also enlightened beings, there's kind of this notion, it brought up a question where there's, and kind of Nietzsche talks about, there's this notion in spirituality as well, in raising our consciousness. And as we raise our consciousness, we become, you know, we're getting more in touch with the divine nature of ourselves.

And it's almost like something that animals can't do. So it's like humans have this, we have the faculty of reasoning, we have the faculty of intellect, and we can kind of get to a super conscious state. Now like obviously there's differences between us and animals. And you know, we can create societies, we can create communities, we can share and express love, and we can kind of transcend those animalistic biological desires. So I think there's like that notion of us transcending the animal and experiencing our more divine self. So is that kind of, yeah, something I'm a bit not sure about. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I get it. Bob, would you like to comment on that? Where did the idea or concept of animals and humans come from? Anyway, in the first place. Division. There's nothing separate at all. It contains everything. The sword can't cut it, the fire can't burn it, the wind can't dry it, the water can't drown it. Why? Because it contains all of those things, not one of those things can contain it. So it's non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. That's what the Buddhists say. Non-conceptual, without any concept. So it's not just a concept. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process.

It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. Can you negate the being? So that's when we start discriminating things with the world and the world's not the real, then we get into all the convolutions and so... one without a second, not two. What's pure intelligence energy? The activity of knowing, being, knowing, loving to be, anyone not being right now? No. Anyone not knowing now? Eh, I'm knowing. So you're happy to be, yeah. So you're already loving. already that well not further or where can you go it's just it's just the notion of thoughts and division that gets gets in the way and says they're not conscious or not like me or something like that but you are that all pervading force anyway that humans seem to have a little bit of superior capacity regarding using the imagination like you know animals have superior Bob often says that you know dogs have sense of smell much superior to yours they can smell drugs and other stuff which you wouldn't and the way the nature equipped them to experience and survive but why we use animals I use particularly and this is also a pointer that I love amongst the pointers of Bob because it brings up the idea of no self animals don't have the narrative so they don't create imagined self so they don't really they not enlightened they don't have to wake up they didn't fall asleep they didn't fall for the dream of being separate do where or someone like that so there's no need for them to question but yes we have the imagination and the imagination of the animals and the way they think about it and the way they think about it is a good imagination and that imagination can bring up sense of superiority it can bring up the sense of having like bigger consciousness or possibility to let go of things just yeah this is behind you next to the lamp I'll get it I could just say something I just think it's the nature of the mind Can you wait?

I'll give you the speaker. Can you pass on? I just think it's the nature of the mind when it gets confronted with it not having any power, that it sort of goes into a bit of a spin and it brings up all these, as Kat said, narrations or stories about this, that and the other. Because it doesn't want to think it's just, well, it doesn't have any power. It doesn't want to think that. So all of a sudden all these stories come up. Maybe I should be doing this. Maybe I should be doing that. Maybe I'm a little bit more superior or I need to do more or I need to sit and meditate 10 hours a day.

It's just the mind grappling with the fact that it's not. Infinite. In fact, what you are is limitless, infinite, and there's no story about it. That's what you are. You're just life itself. No limits and no stories. But the mind hates that. It has to put everything into a category. And all it can do is put categories of me and the other. So there's the me or the image you have about yourself in your mind. That has been with you ever since you were little. And then there's the other person, place or thing. And it can only work in a clunky way. And if it knows that it has nowhere to go, it seems to act up even more.

But once you really, really see that. Once you really, really see that for yourself. There is no me. There's no me and the other. There's just what is. And, you know, things that used to bother you. People, places and things that, you know, used to sort of make you really get, you know, agitated. Or want to find a solution or want to find an answer. There's no answers in the mind. You know. The mind's a useful tool that can be utilized by the action figure, if you like. I like to call myself an action figure. I'm an action figure now. But not that there is any me anyway.

But, you know, it's amazing when you're watching without naming. And all of a sudden actions take place. And all these things get done. And you haven't had a story about it. And so the mind separates and categorizes and puts everything into little boxes. And when it realizes it can't do that. It seems. It seems to be even more active. But it's just like clouds in the sky or a rainy day or thunder and lightning. Or, you know, once you start to watch it, you're just watching with amazement. You know, really. But, yeah, anyway, that's what came up. Pardon me. Sorry. Do we want to. I'm having some confusion with the animal thing as well.

Sorry, what was your name? James. James, Andre. Because I suppose. And perhaps because I was raised a Christian. Perhaps I have a bit of an anthropocentric perspective of reality. But I can't help but feel that an animal is, by nature, driven by its will. By its desire. It's hungry. And it would seem that we've been given the opportunity as humans to sort of transcend that. Only because we had fallen. Only because we've been fooled. Have we been given the opportunity to. And so I don't know. It's something that I'm. Yeah, because I can't look at an animal and say that that animal is an enlightened being.

It's not. Because it never fell for the dream of being a stessor. No, that's okay. But it is not really enlightened. Because what we call enlightened is what. Woke up from the dream of separation. An animal didn't fall asleep. Didn't fall for the dream of separation. And this is a really good point. You're right. A lot of people have that tendency to feel that superiority. Because we have different capacities. And because we can actually seemingly have free will and act on our desires. But now to act on desire. Let's say the animal is hungry and goes and hunts and kills and eats. And a human.

Is hungry. And it decides that no in the name of God or divine. I'm going to be fasting for 40 days on the desert. I'm not going to eat. And my will will overcome my instinct. Where did that thought to fast come from. This is always the one life or one ultimate reality that expresses through that forms. Yes. Human form has the capacity for imagination. Which animal doesn't. And that capacity is being utilized. But by that one life essence. And it creates the. It builds the societies. Creates the bridges. And like James was saying. It also brings up the idea of growth. Or rising the consciousness.

Letting go of all the negativity. Letting go of anger. Wonderful, wonderful ideas. But that can also be seen as part of the activity. Where did the thought to let go of my hatred or my anger come from? This came from that one life essence. So now this body because it has the capacity to process the thought. And to do the process to let go of the thought. Be on a higher vibration. Be more loving. Whatever it is. If I don't take credit for the process. And I see how life is breathing me. How life is moving me to question. How life is me when I say me.

I mean the body mind. That form. When this is. Like. Bob has this beautiful quote. Give credit where credit is due. If not for the life essence. No artist would ever paint anything. No architect would ever build the house. The life essence that fuels the body. That creates the feelings. That creates thoughts. And the thoughts. Of course they come. Because whole universe collaborates. Why would I have the thought to question my hateful thoughts or angry thoughts? This is what we were talking about. Just before. The meeting started. We were talking about our beautiful sparkly Julia. Who is sparkling personality. And a loving heart. And she is such a junkie of love.

That any not loving thought that comes up in her heart. And it does. If let's say Bob is threatened or treated inappropriately. She's just screaming out. I want to love only. How beautiful. How wonderful. How gorgeous. But where is that thought coming from? Of course. The whole universe. The influences she's been. The inspirations she's been exposed to. The whole life. The parents. The great grandparents. All of it contributes. That her body mind. Her radio station is eligible to receive that type of frequency. Rather than just drag Bob to courts and do some nasty things. That's. And even that is not a doer. Even that. What your apparatus is tuned in.

Is none of your choice. It feels like. Oh yeah. I choose to follow this religion instead of that one. Yes. That illusion of having control and having free will. And choosing particular things. Is very very strong. That illusion creates the separate self. Now I'm in charge. I'm in control. I'm the doer. There is someone there who pulls the strings. I am separate. But if you're really honest. Can you choose. For your blood stream to go the other way. Can you choose to stop breathing for a couple of hours. Or stop thinking for a week. It feels like you can. But try. It may actually not be that easy.

Maybe there isn't anyone there. Maybe there is just a narrative self which comments on everything. Oh I wave my hand. I did it. I choose to do that. I consciously did it. No. It happened. And then the narrative comes and say I did it. That. Taking credit capacity. Is part of the conditioning that this human pattern took. And it's beautiful. Because that is the prerequisite. For so called enlightenment of awakening. If there wasn't falling for the dream of being in control. Being separate self. There would be no possibility to transcending that. So to recognize that even what goes with the package with that immense suffering.

Is beautiful. Is brilliant. Is how life plays out. Life plays out. As I say. One ship sails east and one sails west. By the soft same winds that blow. It isn't the gales. But the set of the sails. Which determines the way they'll go. There's two. There's no. There's no human. There's no human being. There's no supreme being. There's only being. Yes. And I'd just like to add to that. That the rest of it's a story. Mm. Mm. So really. If you really get that. There's no human being. There's no supreme being. And what appears upon that presence you. That you are. About anything. It's just a story.

You know. You can't stop being. So try. Try stop being. Yeah. You just can't stop being. So it's just about being. So any story about creation. Or you know. Supreme beings. Or animals. Or this or that. It's just. A narrative. Trying to point to the fact. That there is only one. Because at the core of every great religion is the truth. And most ideas are simple. And a lot of people. You know. In society. Over generations and thousands of years. Were into stories. And you know. We're just attracted to stories. Yeah. But in fact. There is only beingness. Yeah. And the rest of it appears upon you.

And that. And that. Rest of it. That appears upon you. You know. Is interesting. And you know. Amusing at times. But it's. It's not the presence that you are. And without that presence. Or without that beingness. None of the stories could appear. Yeah. But none of them are real. It's. It's. It's. It's. And um. What worries me is there sounds like there's a tendency to negate the narrative. Because the narrative is. I mean. Buddha's saying that. You know. The hand that points to the moon. Is not the moon. But you need that hand to point to the moon. Yeah. And that's. And that's a part of.

Being human. And I do think being human is a particular. Experience. It's wonderful. Yeah. And I just find it hard to get past. Because we are storytellers. And culture is incredibly beautiful. Love it with all your heart. Okay, yeah. But I would say who is trying to get past it. I would say who. I'm not saying stories aren't wonderful. You know, I love stories. But I'm just saying who's trying to get past it. Really have a look at that. Really have a look at that me or who that's trying to get past it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just had some interesting thoughts. For me, and I'm totally open to being wrong.

I've been wrong many times. But what resonates with me is that humans are unique in the fact, and I think Kat kind of touched on this, is that we have the opportunity to be aware that we've become aware. Right? So we have the opportunity to, you can say, transcend. But as Bob will say, there's nowhere to go. But we have that ability to realize that. And then once realized, share that. Yeah. Which no other animal has. Right? So I think, and of course the essence can be, the essence are in animals, right? They just have this, you know, I've got a dog, and there's just this beautiful pureness that I can feel within him, and he can feel within me.

Mm-hmm. But we, we, I don't think, he doesn't realize that. Whereas we have the, we have the opportunity to realize that. And there's a, I think there's a, there's a beauty in that too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just think that maybe, and you know, I'm only guessing that animals may have that aware of awareness state that we, we go in and out of. We're either in the dream or we're aware of awareness. But they certainly can't communicate it with each other. Probably they certainly can't communicate, they can't communicate it with us. But just getting back to those things that, you know, the oneness for me, sort of we talk about animals having, you know, will or something, and animals desires and, and our will, maybe God's will, you know, choice, luck, destiny.

They're all the, they're all the one thing. It's just the mind that divides them up and gives them different meanings. That's the way I sort of see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's interesting. I have a couple of comments here from people who are watching us. And we have 30 few people up to 40. Julia saying, natural intelligence that beats your heart is the same movement towards eating, but nobody's doing it. No ownership of the thought to do it. The thoughts simply arise afterwards that say, that say, I am hungry. And another way, Nazi, Nasser, sorry. Another way to look at it is to remember Ramana, be not the doer.

Even if you are dying, being born or doing spiritual practices, you are not the doer. And it was just the same way when one of us said that. He says, seer is the scene. If no seer, no scene, world, body, world, and God, that is Amarnath. They, they are the doer. They are the doer. They are there. But no notion or reality because of self-inquiry, surrender. This too also become notion as self do not exist, inquire or surrender. And few beautiful comments that have no questions. And here we have, there was a request, I remember, I don't know what it is now. I can't see it.

From someone to speak about stabilization, about stabilize. Would you like, would you like Bob to comment on this one? What do you have to say about stabilizing, stabilizing, stabilizing the understanding or? Well, the simple one they say in some of the Buddhist texts, let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. It's just a singularity and what is stabilized in that. What can you say about it then? Yeah, and I think the constant reminder about what's really underlying any movement, any noise, any ideas, feelings, the recognition of that underlying being, the sense of being. The more of that recognition naturally spontaneously comes up, the more it kind of get anchored as a natural state.

So it is not really a practice that you practice stabilization. No, it's just the life essence that continuously brings up that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that brings up that basic, simple recognition of the being, which is the essential nature, the natural state. Being. Being. It's the same as seeing, hearing. And I. Now guide it if you can. I think this was the man who, John was his name, who was asking about it. There is another one. Satori is a Japanese Buddhism term for awakening, comprehension, understanding, is derived from Satori.

from Japanese verb Satori. In the Zen Buddhist tradition, Satori refers to experience of Kensho, seeing into one's true nature. Ken means seeing, Sho means nature or essence. That's a nice explanation. Let it rest, says Mark. Good pointer. And Tanya, yes, the make-believe is beautiful. Peace, stillness and love is here always. Only stories seems to veil it. An Amarnath, realized person sees only self, neither differentiate them into realized or not realized. There are no others, Nisargadatta. That's a quote. Difference is the illusion, Mark says. And human mind may help to trace to its source just for living, but we are life itself, Amarnath. And Mark says, there is no difference with anything.

And Julia, saying to Tanya, commenting on playing the make-believe, which is nice. There is no human, only being, says Amarnath. And names and form are just notions, appearance, learned imagination, hiding self, reality which cannot be seen with investigation. And one more, just, there is no free will, Tanya says. Action, doing, just happens. Walking happens. And thought comments after. The hand itches the face and thought says, I itch the face. But there was just a movement spontaneously happening. That's right. I love that. That was such a game-changer. It was such a game-changer for me because I was, I used to kind of buy in the idea of sometimes there's free will and sometimes there isn't.

Because people would say, well, you know, yeah, you didn't choose that, but I chose this. And when I could see that no choice was ever personally made, ever, like any of them, not one. By anybody. By anybody. You know, that nothing could have happened without, again, that life essence moving through. There's no choice that could have been made. And every choice that's ever happened has come about because of the myriads of things that nobody chose as well. That is, that gets you, that lets you and everybody else off the hook. You know, for blame and shame and guilt and judgment. And, you know, if you, if you really take that in, I think, you know, I think when people are shooting on someone, they're thinking there is a free will.

And, and there's a choice. And you, you chose. It's something that irritates me a little bit, actually, even though they're not the choosers. I got to look at that. Like when I see religious teachers or spiritual teachers saying, you choose, you're responsible. See, that's it. That's like the big thing that you see in a lot of like, some of the new things. Like, oh, responsibility. Yeah, where's Pucky? Yeah. And that has its place in the society also. Yeah. You want to say something? Just choose your next breath. Choose your next breath. When next happens. Actually, when you, when you start looking at the whole manifestation, the way Nisargadatta described it so brilliantly, nothing is wrong.

Nothing is wrong anymore. There's nothing wrong. Even in this pushy. Religious brainwashing that, oh, you're responsible. If you had a sinful thought about your neighbor, you, you will go to hell for life forever. Even this creations are part of the life essence expressing. Even those thought forms that bring sense of guilt and create immense suffering are in the whole scheme of things. They are necessary because that suffering breeds investigation. Even the social, the political systems. That seem off. Even that nothing's wrong. Really, the way life expresses itself is brilliant and beautiful is just to actually see that brilliance and beauty in it. Then you see the bigger picture.

Yes. In this momentary situation, Bob has the knee pain. That's bad. Somebody got right. That's bad. Somebody got sick. Yes, that's bad. But in a broader scheme of things, if you look from the perspective of emptiness of the whole space of the whole universe of timelessness, there is nothing wrong. And you're right. I totally hear you. Yes, the pointer which tells you, you are responsible. Oh, yeah, I should be ashamed of myself. I should feel guilty. This is so wrong. Or I should not be thinking or saying or feeling this way. Yes, they do create. They do breed resistance. They do feel like, you know, how can I, how can religion or how can I myself control something that has been created and anchored in that body?

How can I control my taste? Or anything? If there is no one there who does it, if I didn't create them in the first place, I didn't start the pattern. How do I stop it? So even that all of it has place in the appearance. It's just it's just such a such an open field of playing dancing patterns. All of them pattern of resistance towards expectations and and responsibilities pattern of wanting to instill those responsibilities. Because there is. There are people who only don't go and write because they are afraid of hell. That's the only reason they have the narrative of fear of hell. That's that's what keeps them from hurting other people.

Even that. And I know I sincerely I met people like that only because of the narrative. And of course, that's how life expresses this way without the narrative. Who knows? That would be just so it's amazing. I don't know. Without the narrative that they might not have had an interest in raping in the first place. Right? You know what I mean? If there wasn't yet a narrative, we have no idea. Get this so I can feel a sense of completion or power or strength or whatever they're trying to get from it. That's coming from a narrative as well, isn't it? Absolutely no idea. Absolutely no idea.

If they had red socks, we don't know what how would they feel if one thing in the universe has changed? The whole universe is a different version of the universe. Yeah. Okay. I guess we have. We have. The time to go. So thank you, everyone.