Sailor Bob, Kat, nonduality, 24 Jan 2021

Morning everyone. I hope everybody's quite well and happy, enjoying life, which you are, pure enjoyment. We don't teach you anything here, we don't tell you anything. I have to stress that. All I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself. There's nothing that anybody can give you, nothing you can ever get. It's just a recognition of your own true nature, which is the one self. It's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing in this manifestation. They call it realisation, liberation. Or godliness, or all sorts of different labels we put upon it. But we've taken the belief that this so-called God, or higher power, is something greater than ourselves.

There is only one self. That's what they call the Atman, or the self. There are not many. But the idea we have is we are a person. A personal self. We've taken that on because of the capacity of reasoning. When we learnt words, that capacity of reasoning develops. Up until that, before you learnt any words, you were functioning quite naturally, effortlessly, and spontaneously. We didn't realise that, though. And that's how you were for the first couple of years of your life. Forming in the womb. What did you have to say about that? When you didn't have a brain? And the sperm, what was that saying when it was on its way to the ovum?

And the ovum said, come here, old fellow, or whatever it is. It's all a spontaneous happening. But all that sperm, that ovum, and everything else, you, me, and everything else, is suffused with that innate intelligence. The activity of knowing. Not your intellects. But your brain. The pure intelligence. The same intelligence that's rolling the earth around the sun. Causing the seasons to come and go. The tides to come in and out. It's breathing you. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's in every pattern, shape, and form in this manifestation. All these patterns, shapes, and forms are things. I'm a thing. You're a thing.

Everything else is a thing. All appearing in that no-thingness, which is the basic screen on which it all appears on. It is no thing. Silence, stillness, space-like awareness, labels we put on it because we've learnt words. And without even having any words, as I say, when you're a little child, when you emerge from the womb you started to breathe while you're in the womb and growing. What was growing you? What's living you right now? And realise it's not I am living or my living. Life is happening. And as the Sāgha-datta tells you, there is only life. That's all. That is all there is. A label being the same as God is everything.

Well, life is everything and all things are life. Life is love. I say God is love and if God is love, love must be God. And if love is life, life must be love also. So it's all in one essence because of the words being a vibration. A movement of energy that vibrates dualistically. And we've taken the belief in duality to be real. But the tradition of Advaita tells you it's non-duality. Non-duality meaning one without a second. And when you look at that, it's not even one. And if there wasn't the one, could there be other? The count must start from zero. No thingness. And then you divide it up by putting the numerals on it.

One, two, three, four, five, many, multiple. That's the expression. And when I say zero, zilch, it's not no thing. It is no thing. I should say. It's not nothing. It is everything, that's what this scripture is saying. Vigil, yes. It is the Pole. No, it was nothing. Vigil, no. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. Vigil, yes. it's not nothing. We say it's nothing, we think it's zero, zero, zero, empty, nothing, but it's a cognising. Know-thingness has the capacity of knowing. That's another word for cognising, knowing. Cognising enters, and Buddha made the statement that emptiness is form.

All these forms start, appear as things on that emptiness. He said the form can't be nothing other than the emptiness. Though the things are appearing as separate things, they are still that know-thing, because that means they are only appearances, which they point out as a phenomenal manifestation. And all phenomenal manifestations, the definition of phenomenon is that which appears to be. It's seemingly so. It's not so as it appears. But you can't say it is not, because it's appearing. You can't say it is, because you can't grasp it. The image in the mirror, when the Sargata tells you, nothing can trouble you. Accepting your own imagination.

Break that down to image in. Imagine. And that's what we're doing. We create mental or conceptual image. And that's part of the capacity of this reasoning ability. We can image in, imagine all sorts of things. But the image is not very real. The image in the mirror. You see your face in the mirror, you see your face in the mirror, it is a reflection or image in the mirror. And all the mirror is a plain sheet of glass which has put a backing on it, which you can't see through, but it enables it to reflect. And you can have that reflection out there too, if you look out and see something reflected against the background of the cloud.

Or you've got a still pool of water, and you'll see that. The moon reflected in water. And that moon doesn't sink into the water, does it? It floats on it. But you can't go and scoop it out, because there's only a reflection or an image. But that's what I'm trying to point out. You can't say it's not there, but you can't say it is there. There's only things substantial and real. But we believe it is to be so. And because of that belief and the words and concepts we've got, we suffer through that. And that suffering, we say, is not necessary. It doesn't have to be that way.

It is that way because it's never been investigated. And it will stay that way until it is investigated. And even in the investigation, it will be still seen as something appearing to be separate or divided. But that's how it's appearing. That's the phenomenality of it. You can't say it is, and you can't say it is not. So why bother saying anything? Leave it as is, and let it resolve itself. And that's what Banke tells us, a Zen monk in the 16th century. He says, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. He calls it the unborn mind because that mind is not born. The mind appears in the born appearance or the pattern, the shapes and forms it appears in through the capacity of reasoning, developing it.

When you're about the age of two, two and a half, then you're functioning quite well before that without the belief in the I am or the separate entity. Till you learn words to separate, you can't separate it without the word. It tells you that in the Bible, in the beginning was the word. That's where everything begins, with the word. The word was with God, this thing called God. And that's all that God is, is a word, a label. A word we've learned. All things were made by him, meaning by the word. There was nothing made that was made without the word and that's so. What can you say about anything without putting the word or the label on it?

And the word was made flesh, became a body and dwelt among us. And it's that word that seemingly in these bodies that's separating us from the real totality. You are the totality. That's all that you ever are. The absolute, the great perfection. They are words. They put on it when they point it out. I had to pick it up and what was pointed to. Just the same as I'm trying to, trying to point it out here. So others might be able to see it. Would you like a question? Yes, we've got questions to start it off. That's good. Hi everyone. It is from Tanya and it's a, I just read the first sentence and I found it instantaneously an urge to share it because it feels really good.

I realized this morning that I don't know what I am looking for. Wondering what it, what is it that should happen? What I would label as this is it. This is the truth. I am looking to discover a thought or pattern of thought that is, that is the true. There is an expectation that certain thoughts will not appear and there will be peace. Not reacting to little annoyances, not believing thought stories and being more relaxed or laid back. Seeing the truth will remove all belief in stories about an imaginary me and psychological suffering. That's the question. Yeah, that's a brilliant sharing. I mean to actually be aware that what you are looking for is some sort of an imagination or expectation.

That's already a wonderful, wonderful step ahead because now you see the answer is not in the mind. Whatever the mind tells you that it is, it is not it. Yeah, but have a look. What's looking? It is the mind, me or I, which is the thought, which is mine, which is looking. Yes. And to say, what can it be looking for? If the mind is looking for mind, it will never ever happen. Yeah. Yeah, but still there is a question regarding that little expectation here. The question is, seeing the truth will remove all belief in stories about imaginary me and psychological suffering? Yes, it will believe.

The stories will still come up. The patterns, shapes and forms still appear. But what reality have they got? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're not being, and if they'll disappear just as quickly if they're not related to something. But what we relate to, again, we come back to relating to me or I. I am having this story or I am feeling this and I don't like this or I don't want that. Mm-hmm. So we're relating to something, to the conceptual thinking, mind again, a thought up pattern or idea that I am something solid and substantial. Mm-hmm. Relating to that. Relating to that. And relationship is relative too.

Yes. And relative to, or relationship is duality. And it is, they tell us in uncertain terms that it's non-dual. It is the absolute. It is the great perfection. That doesn't leave room for anything other than that to go in it. Because you add something to the absolute, it couldn't be absolute. If you take something away from it, it wouldn't be absolute. That all things must appear in that absolute. but the absolute has got no boundaries to keep it engaged in. But we engage ourselves in concepts with thoughts which are taking place in the absolute and being believed to be separate. But stay with it the great perfection or the absoluteness that you are and things so-called things come and go just like everything in the body.

The heart is expanding and contracting. The breath is coming in and out. Food is being digested. All this is happening spontaneously naturally and effortlessly. But in reality no thing has ever happened. How could no thing happen? But this is beautiful where Tania this is your wonderful habit of answering your own questions. For wondering yes so this was that she realized this morning that she's she doesn't know what she's looking for. Wondering what it is that should happen. What I would label as this is it. What is it that I would label this is it. This is yeah this is beautiful and then right after that she says this is the truth.

This moment as it is. This is the truth. That's right. And wondering who this is it. Well I am this. Yeah. Including the the realization that you don't know what it is and you're waiting for something to stick a label this is it. This moment is the label. This is to stick the label. Stick the label on right this one. There's no other moment it's only only this one. This is the truth. Yes. What is? Yeah, it's... It's just as it is. It is there in all its nakedness. It's bare-bodied. Bound, pure awareness of being. Garden variety. Garden variety, you called it a couple of days ago.

Ordinary awareness. And also, Tania, you say that expecting not to react to little annoyances. Look out in nature. And look if the animals, like, you know, maybe you're watching birds in front of your house. See how they fight for territory. See how they scold each other. How the little mothers scold little fathers or children amongst the magpies or other birds. Little annoyances happen everywhere in nature. It's just how long you're going to carry them around. Yeah, and react. You're reacting to that conceptual image. But responding is a spontaneous natural function that comes up, a natural response. So you're not reacting, not responding to the natural response.

You're reacting to the natural response. The feelings or emotions won't be behind it if it's a natural response. Just be the natural functioning. And Barbara answered, is as is. Yes, Bob, all just happens. And Tania says, I'm not 100% certain that I can clearly see that the thought content is never ever real. You've probably said something about this already, but could you say more about that? Well, it appears to be real. I like them. Please never. I like the blue. But you'll still go and say it's a blue sea or a blue sky. The sky is never blue. But you know the truth about it, but you'll still see it as blue and still say what a beautiful blue sky it is today.

But you know the truth. You're not bound just in the saying of it. It won't disturb, it won't upset you so much. You can enjoy it or leave it as it is, whatever. And if you see the content as thinking as, well, relative truth. But not absolute truth. If you don't give it absolute importance, like when the thought comes, oh, I'm going late or, oh, I'm worthless. You know, those things don't are not really that important. And usually what happens when the thought comes to my mind, I think this is my mind. So this is the guide. This is the only guru, the sad guru, whatever.

I should listen to the thought. I should obey the thought, make it important. Not really. You can see how life functions and the thought overlay comes on top of it. So if the, is the thought content true? Well, in the appearance you can say, yeah, if you say the soup is cold, it is kind of relatively true, but how important is that? Is that going to get you to take that personality? Oh, they did it to me on purpose. That's the, that's where the suffering comes. If they are taken lightly, That's enlightenment, everything's light. The cold soup's light. All of this is just not too hard.

Oh, I lost, where are we? And is the content never ever real? I think what you meant by saying the thought is not a thing is more about, you know, the label is never the thing, the map is never the territory, the water is not a water, you can't drink it. So the thought is not a thing. If you think of your daughter, that thought is not your daughter. So really the thinking, the content of thinking is only mental representations, images, symbols or sounds. They're not the real thing. See it as it is again. Let's bring it back to the is-ness. Well, I think that's a good point.

Got no name, no shape, no pattern, no form, but you can't say it is not. Yes. That is. And the spontaneous activity will take place according to as it is. Thought content is never real. Julia, know the truth and the truth will set you free. And Julia say, I don't think that truth can be spoken in words. Truth is that which never changes. And the meaning of a word can change. And you can't change it. And the meaning of the word can change too. And that's why it is so important to have a point of view. Yes. And the point of view, you can't say it's not.

The point of view is the same. Yes. But it is also about understanding of who is observing it and when. Good point. Yes. Good point. That's right. Yes. That's another good little justification why it can't be expressed. So a good little justification for the mind. And Rohan, who would there be to see the content of thought as real or unreal? This is to Tanya. Brilliant point. Yes. Even this distinction is made only by a thought. Yes. Is it not? Beautiful. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. said yeah great aspect to bring into that yes who would there be to see the content of the real or an area who wants to know in and what in another words yeah who is asking the question and rocks that's good morning message and you had good morning message from Otlin and from many many many other people I don't read good morning messages because Bob will see them all after the meeting okay you get going with the spiel and now wait for more comments what can I go on with spiel you can tell us a little bit on how it comes about you started how it comes about when you learn words yeah when you question are you the body are you the mind you know you know you're not the body because you're saying my body you say my body you say my coat my hat my car and you know you're not the coat the cat or the car they are too so who is this me or my that thinks it has these things is it the persona this person I've taken myself to be because I was told by my parents and been reinforced by my schools my society and everybody around me and I'm reinforcing it myself from at that time on it seems very real me happening to me all right but what does that I the eye is the sense of presence a sense of presence or the awareness of presence awareness of being translates as the thought I am and you're not happy with we're not happy that so the other things I don't to give it some USS you can't do much with the thought I am.

To make it, give it some seeming substance of reality we add on these other words or concepts that we've learnt or picked up. I am Bob, I'm an Australian, I'm not so good or a good fella, I'm unhappy, I'm fearful. So see what I form, I form a conceptual image based on past events, experiences and conditioning. I'm forming a dead image and relating to it and believing that dead image is what I am. Well are you dead right now? Are you unaware right now? No. So you're not dead, you're not unaware, so you must be. What you are, you don't know. But you can't negate your beingness for a start off, so you must be.

And I am that beingness. And that's what they tell you in the great traditions, that's the great tradition. That's the great mantra, I am that. And you know that because you realise that is what I am. That's enough. You can't negate it. And you know that that's the chair you're sitting on, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. Everything is that. All the patterns, shapes and forms are that. And that's a label too. But we don't really leave it at that. We put down the label. That's the chair, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's me, that's you. We separate it. We separate the inseparable.

The absolute cannot be separated. It's undivided, it cannot be divided. The great perfection is the same, it can't be separated. What are we separating it by? Concepts, words, concepts. What's concepts? Thoughts, mental constructs, sound. Thoughts are sound. Thoughts are sound. Thoughts are sound. Vibration, just a vibrating pattern of energy. We're putting blockages in with other thoughts. The boundaries we put upon it are good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. So we've encapsulated ourselves in this conceptualised image which the boundaries are. But call it space-like awareness. What boundaries are there to be in the space? You think you can fly, get in the plane and fly to the end of space?

You can't. And can you go back in and find a little centre, a dot, a static point, where you say it all began? You can't. So it's beginningless and endless. There's no boundaries on it. That's eternity. It's beginning and endless. Spontaneous appearance of this now. Let's call it now. And that's just another label we put on it. There's no such thing as now. Or immediacy or whatever. You can't encapsulate it with a word. It can never be bound in words. Yet we're doing it all the time. And we're relating to it from the viewpoint that there's an entity here, me. Instead of raising it, it is the life or it's the intelligence, energy, its patterning function, its form.

It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. It's the energy. And that's what we're doing all the time or the self somewhere. Grcinning, shaping, performing, expressing is everything. So we continually tell. I continually repeat that. It's one essence that's patterning, shaping, performing, expressing as everything. And you and I and everything else are that One. And what is wrong, if we recognise or even get a taste of that one-ness, who can you dislike? Who would you hate? What would you want of the other persons? What would you want to become? When you've gone and found out you're not one and you're empty after a certain time, then not you.

The educator sung now has just agreed to let him know. He won't tell you and I won't let him tell you. But you're alone in each other event. I think nobody can abandon you. I'm a person who loves you. and why would you be able to come when you are already that? And why would you hang on to these concepts or words that are keeping you separated, isolated and bound? That's the word that is the bondage. They believed in the separate self, the bondage of self. Won't let me do it. We're playing with a chord here. That's not real, is it? It appears to be.

Any more questions yet? There is a word of gratitude from Tania. Oh, there is one more. This is what Julia was saying about the content of the words. Tania says, yes, wonderful pointer. It seems all distinctions are made by thought only. Exactly. And she says, beautiful Julia, definitely depends on perspective, what the truth is. The word is the truth. The words can't describe it. Tania was saying, you know, it seems like all comes about through the word only. Yeah. Well, doesn't Shakespeare tell you that? Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And he just doesn't only mean good or bad. All the thoughts that vibrate are the opposite.

But thinking makes them seem. It's not so. No. And then you said, you know, you label things out of the appearance. This is chair. This is a coat. This is this one or that one. But we don't stop there. We say, oh, this is a wooden chair and I don't like it because it is hard. Now it is relative to me. Same, that person is whatever the, you know, the description, the narrative goes on and builds on. First they were separated from its environment, isolated as a thing that can stand on its own, which it can't. And then it has been related with the story.

How is it relevant to me? And that's another thing when I tell you the description can never be the described. The map can never be the territory. Yeah. And you know that it's simple enough to say, you know, the word is not the real. That's just as easy to say. Yeah. All these things they tell us. When you look into investigate, they say the truth and they say, no, the truth, the truth will set you free. Yeah. Yes. So. Thank you. Thank you, Bob, Kat, Julia and Rohan. Feeling much love and gratitude for such kind, beautiful and clear responses to my question. Big smile and a hug.

And Bill, we are so influenced when learning, not realizing we are loading more and more concepts that ultimately need to be dropped. Only then we go back to that beautiful childlike nature. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful recognition. Yeah. The concepts that are limiting has to be dropped. I mean, they can be recognized and they fall away in through the through the recognition. There's a lot of ideas and thoughts that are beautiful and practical in use, but especially those that are relating to the self are obscuring the childlike joyous nature. Sandy. If all is now and present, then how does one find purpose in life? Why life? Who wants a purpose?

Good point. Yeah. And what are we working towards or leaving towards? Well, you realize you're not happy in the state you are right now, otherwise you wouldn't be looking for words, looking for words. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing for words looking for . Yeah. That's the sense if something is not right here, or I'm bound in this, or I'm caught in that, or something like that, then if you're open to it, instead of staying . Then there must be a way out of this.

There must be more to life than this. Yeah. There's not a purpose as such. It's just a natural functioning. Like, when the hen has been sitting on the egg for three weeks, the chicken says, what the hell am I doing in here? No. air, starts looking for a way out. So it begins to peck on the inside of the shell and breaks it open and splits and comes out as a chicken. Mm. No longer. Oh, and it doesn't say anything. No, no. But there's no longer any reason to stay bound in the egg. Mm. There's nobody, no longer any reason for us to stay encapsulated in this conceptual image that we believe ourselves to be.

Break out. And that's when, you wouldn't be listening to this if it wasn't urging you to do something about it. There's lots out there that wouldn't have a bar of this, what I'm saying. Mm. And some of them get the taste of it, and then, but you know, it's not, all the words I'm saying, it can point you to it like all the other words then. You've got to take it from there yourself, question and see whether the pointing resonates with you, and you can see through it. Like, as Tanya's saying, she's seeing through it all the time, but what's she staying in the bondage for?

Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, that's a brilliant answer. I would not expect that. I would rather bring the fact that what is dog or cat or elephant living for? And just learn from nature. They don't really have those issues. But this is a beautiful answer that Bob just offered, that, you know, you're sitting encapsulated in the egg, in the shell, in the mask, in the costume of an individual. Wake up. Break through. Realize. Just look behind. Make it a purpose. And then, you know, you're going to be a part of the process. Because when, first things first, when you see what you are and who you are, then the question of purpose of life will be rewritten, will be, will have completely different taste.

As a human person, little limited identity, of course, look around, psychology, everyone will tell you, oh, you've got the, you know, you have the fear of dying. You need to go for the immortality dream. Do something that will leave something behind, you know. Make a lot of, you know, you know, make a lot of children so your genes will be there. Or write some books so the people will remember you. Keep your name. This is important. You have to survive your death. Make it a purpose. When you realize that who you are doesn't die, you don't need that stuff. It doesn't mean expression won't come.

You may still go and write the biggest, most beautiful best symphony ever written, but not because you want to be immortal or remembered or famous or rich. But because this is how the life expresses through. There is no agenda. Like if we are told to set goals and have agenda or make the goals impersonal, help others, serve others. But this is all for the me to be happy. This is always an exchange. See who you are first and see how that question sits. Don't sit in a, in a, in a egg like a little chook. And then yeah, once, once you have clarity on this.

Yeah. What's the purpose of your life? Breathe in, breathe out. Whatever is happening. I mean, we can write a lot of stories of what's your purpose. You could say your purpose is to eat the next meal or to. Well, I've got no say in it. To have any purpose. I was born and I don't remember it. And I didn't know anything about it. I, or me, until the point I learnt words. But I was expressing and living until then. Still am to this day. Still breathing, heart beating, hearing fingernails growing. But for a long time I was bound in the, in the capsule that I was the person.

Looking for a way out. Wasn't happy. Wasn't necessary. Not being happy. Not feeling, feeling happiness or contentment. Yeah. I was just looking for a way out. Yeah. Or a natural resting or relaxing into the natural being I was trying to become. Yeah. And the thing that was trying to become never ever got there. Until the realisation dawned through listening and recognising what Nisargadatta and others pointed out over the years. That I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind.

I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this body-mind. I wasn't this person. I was the pure being. Which cannot become and can do nothing other but be. It cannot even not be. It should always be and never be. Yeah. And that, what, how it became. Now it doesn't mean to say that thoughts, feelings, emotions and all of these other things in the manifestation, the pattern that I'm expressing as a so called human being don't come up. Of course they come up. The sea will always still appear to be blue, but the water is never blue. It won't ever be blue, but it appears to be so.

So the appearance is happening here. And the different ways and shapes and forms expressed, it's a sort of... it's still a continuity of functioning and living. It's a sort of, what do they call it? What's the word? Natural, spontaneous functioning. Functioning, yeah. It's never fresh, it's never new. It's constantly changing and seemingly improving. There's more inventions and things like that going on, more recognitions and realisations going through science, physics and all the other conditions. More buildings, architectural and things like that. Some of them are not quite as solid as some of the old ancient buildings, but still, all these things are happening, and the expression through this human form, which can make it very enjoyable, but because the relationship is going on, we want something from others or don't like what the others are doing, and we cause wars and fights and arguments, it makes it continually bring itself back to nature, you know, patterning, shaping, forming and dissolving.

That's all that's happening. But the true essence of it has never changed. Yeah, so you can just see what's, you know, when you get out of the way, what's the purpose, what life wants from you. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. That's the story of the world at this moment. Is it the next meal, or is it the saving the climate? Who knows? Life will bring up those ideas if they are strong and emotionally charged and completely resonating with the pattern. Those ideas will perpetuate themselves, and you are the space for that to happen. If the narrative is there, yes, but I need the written purpose or whatever, life will provide it, also.

I used to tell the story about the dinosaurs. the dung beetle years ago. Yeah. Dung beetle. I'll sit here so you look at me. The dung beetle lives on the elephant's shit, you know. It gets it and rolls it into a big ball and inside that ball it lays its egg or its pupae or whatever you like to call it. And then it digs a hole a metre deep and rolls the ball into it and then it dies. It's done its job. Was that its purpose? But that little pupae in the dung beetle eats the dung and grows and fights its way out of it, fights its way up to the top and then flies away.

So we were in its, in a sense, just tell it, we'll find the elephants where it can get shit to live on. But there's been a drought on it, there's no elephants there, so it dies. And others were on their way to find it, shit that shit will get eaten by birds or other insects and die. Was that their purpose? And then there are others will go and find it and live on and give nothing dig a hole again. A little, what's the name the? What do they call it that? What's the name the elephant's shit? The little what's the name the, what do they call it?

What's the name the? One of the animals there, I forget the name of it now, will dig a hole and find that, can sniff it out from up on the surface, dig a hole and eat it. Was that its purpose? And the others will go and get the hole and lay eggs and the eggs will grow into more dung beetles. So was that their purpose, you know? What was its purpose? Each served a purpose, but it wasn't to be its specific purpose. Everything serves a purpose, like the fruit that comes on the trees. We take the fruit and eat it. All the fruits have a seed in them or a stone in them or something like that, which can have the potential to cover the earth in more fruit trees and grow fruit.

There again also, it's not only for the fruit trees, the purpose is to do that, but it feeds on it. Animals, birds and insects feed on it, on the fruits too. And other animals. So what's, there's really, everything if you like has a seeming purpose, but there's no purpose to it. It's all part of life and life lives on life. That's all there is, is the life of those things is the actuality. And it lives on life and out of life more life comes. That's how it is. That's how it keeps going. Without having any purpose, rhyme or reason. But just to express. Just to express and appear, to be so.

Some will get enjoyment out of it, some will get unhappiness, fear, guilt, depression. It's all life, expressing, appearing, patterning, shaping, and you and I and everything else are the life. Like Christ says, I am the way. I am the way. I am the life. I am the truth. Not talking about himself as people, oh that's only Jesus Christ can do that. It's the sense of presence that was expressing through him, the same as expressing through you and me that realize that I am the way, I am the truth, and I am the life. And as Moses, who was it, says, I am that I am.

That's that thought I am is a sense of presence. It expresses through the mind as the thought. So that's when I say I am. It's not the thought that I'm talking about. It is a sense of presence that expresses as that thought. And there is any one of you that is not present and aware right now. You realize, no, I'm present right here, right now. I am present and I am not unaware, so I must be aware. So I am already that. I am. I am. I am. I think it's just a tiny little aspect of that. What are we living towards? What are we?

What's our working towards or living towards? That suggests a future, doesn't it? It means the question is really just from the top of the head. Because if you really ask from the core of your essence or your heart, without the conceptualizing, then you don't really miss out on this moment of aliveness, of livingness right now. You don't really look forward to get out of this moment towards some other future moment of future fulfillment, of future pleasure. It's only mind that constantly promises us that there is something better on the other side of the fence. The hospitals are always better in other cities or the grass is always greener somewhere else in future, not here, not this.

As it is right now, life without purpose, life from the heart, not from the head, that is constantly seducing us to get more. I'd accumulate a mass just to feel that whole, that sense of incompleteness by future, by ideas, by aims, goals, purposes, some visions. Just not this. That's actually a source of psychological suffering. Looking to the future for answers, solutions, fulfillment. It is here. It can only be found here. There is no other time than here, than here now. Because that future promise of finding a goal, fulfilling the goal and eventually feeling happy and fulfilled and complete, that never comes. That is always further away.

The new plans, new goals, new... promises will come. It either is recognized as already present or it just is a dream and stay as a dream. And people unfortunately die without realizing that they've missed out on life. Waiting for something else, something bigger, greater to happen instead of being here now. There is another comment. From Catherine or James. Dearest Bob and Kat, I know that the discarding of questions, concepts is crucial to understanding our true nature. But where does Advaita stand if omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence are just also someone's concept? Well, take the concepts off. Are you unaware? Are you unaware right now? Or is there unawareness there?

It's not you that's aware or unaware. Can you say, I am unaware? So there's just pure awareness. And is that awareness not spontaneously present right now? Without putting the label or the concept on it, presence, awareness even, that is the natural state. That is the actuality of being. Pure mind is when the mind, as John Wheeler put it in one of his songs, beautiful description, talked about a mind that alights upon no thing. Leave the mind as it is, but not alighting upon anything. It's pure, what we call pure mind. Empty mind. But when we put the concepts on it, it's got to be either my mind or your mind or somebody else's mind.

Yeah, that's the point. Somebody else's concept. Who is the somebody else? Is there really anyone else? Maybe someone else is also a concept. Someone else introducing the idea of omnipresence. Maybe there is no one else. Maybe that's the figment of your dream. Maybe that's the dream character in your dream. And even say omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. That's total. Omni means total. Absolute. Still saying it's absolute. Now, without those words, can you take anything away from the absolute? Can't anything take anything away? It's absolute whether you like it or not. Yeah. And that's true. Every concept is someone else's concept. Like, there's not that much. There are many people who actually design or invent new words and introduce those.

Most of the words we learn from others, they are agreed. And even if I will invent a new word and I don't share it and we don't agree on it, that is pointless. It doesn't serve the purpose. So yes, everything is someone else's concept. And what the Advaita stand is, Advaita is another concept. An Advaita stand, is also another concept. There's no such thing as Advaita. And if there is no such thing, it can't have a stand. It means non-duality. Yeah. And that non-duality means one without a second. But at the end of the day, it's not even one. Yes. Because if it is one, there can always be a count going on from that.

But zero, or no, there's no count. Can't even say it's one without a second. There's no thing. Appearing as everything. Appearing. Appearing is illusionary. And it's an illusory illusion. Yes, so we invent those ideas of Advaita being a psychological, or not, philosophy maybe, a school or something, that if you want to align with that concept, then you have to do some sort of discarding. But what about concepts that it contains? It becomes all very, very philosophical, very, very heady. While the truth is just so simple. The truth is the background on which all those philosophical ideas interact through the mind. Even that, and Advaita is just a label, but even that they're not happy with.

They try to separate that and divide it. Neo-Advaita. And they split it up just as a super-conscious, higher consciousness. Yeah. I'm not quite even sure what it is supposed to point, because all those words are usually supposed to have some sort of a pointer. But the guy who actually invented it doesn't really have much of a concern about helping others, in my opinion. Anyway, Julia says, I would love to contribute with more questions, Bob and Kat, but you put an end to them. It is sometimes very hard to even think after hearing you speak for only a few minutes. I'm left with only gratitude. That's a beautiful contribution.

Better than the question. Yeah, yeah, we like your answers. That's nice. I mean, you know, you can't fight questions if they're not there. That's just something to really, really celebrate. It's wonderful. Take the gratitude away, and you are. You're left with only gratitude, I am. Oh, Rox is answering what we are leaving to words. Rox says, find your true nature and all those questions will be answered. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, that's it. I would even say all those questions will just evaporate like soap bubbles. They will be so ridiculous. Like, who is there to... Here's the questioner. Yeah, yeah. The questioner is seen as a fiction.

He can't have any question. That's right. So the questioner is a question, and the question is a questioner. So they cancel each other out. Yes. We have Brett. Hi, Bob and Kat. Wonderful to be you. Just, this just surfaced, as you spoke. And this is what he wrote. Ideation isolates. We are not our separate thoughts. We are thoughts, it's the thought itself. We are not the wave, but the vast blue ocean. We are the sandy shore, unmoving, receptive, accommodating, eternal. I am you. You are we. And winter becomes winter. Winter becomes laughter. Do you see? Your words hold thunder, and lightning illuminates your longing. Breathe.

Beautiful. How poetic. Yeah. Yeah, they're all beautiful analogies. Yeah. The vastness of the ocean is a good pointer to recognizing yourself as being already the water. Not the isolated, separate drop of the water, which Bob sometimes answered the reincarnation questions. Try and separate the same drop of water. Not the wave, big, high, tall, whatever, distinguishable. It's still a water. And the another one, the sandy beach, the sandy shore, unmoving, receptive. Bob has this beautiful analogy about the river going along the sandy banks. They're not moving. The river is alive. It is moving. It is the water in the river is changing. But take a bucket of that water and put it on the shore.

It won't be moving. That life will be encapsulated. It will start rotting. That's what we do when we put the conceptual image of it. I am an introvert, always and ever. And I am whatever the woman Polish or Aquarius or Scorpio, whatever. And that label just is like that bucket. And it's... And it's dead. While we are totality. Yeah, we are everything. We are good, bad, pleasant, all of it. And it's nothing at the same time. Marvelous Bob, that's Alvaro says. And Rox, it is all just here. Hallelujah. Rox, Roxanne. Oh, good. Hallelujah. And Nick. I find now here that easy is right. I find now here that easy is right.

Why fight and struggle after all? It's a lot of pointless effort. But it wasn't always like this. During decades of resistance, nonetheless, I am is not lazy, not idle energy arises and subsides. Not idle nor... Not lazy nor idle. Energy arises and subsides. Never know what's going to happen next. Wonderful mystery to be present in and us. Yes, enjoy. Yes. Enjoy. Yeah, you are present as mystery in mystery. Beautiful. Yeah, and it is wonderful. And so nice to... Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's wonderful. Yes. So, let's... But I don't know much about supernatural science than life is to be living in one way or another.

. I don't even believe that there is any so called 우리 �دن. We don't know. Even if your mind doesn't work you don't go the limited way because you don't think like this. Right. In English we say that . It's a ». What does it mean for you to be this ordinary without the referring to the truth? As you say, when they start going with the stream, it's much more simple. Stop resisting. Those decades of suffering and things, and the belief, trying to hang on to that belief and do something with it. I know what that's like. Yes, resisting the flow. And that really, having that even as a memory, brings the appreciation to the effortlessness.

Easy now. And Rox, the natural state. Not hard, not to be attained, natural. Who we are, always there, always has been, always will be. How amazing is that, Rox? Yeah, how amazing. Always there, not to be attained. As nature. Natural comes as far as I'm concerned. As in nature. I'm going to talk about the natural state. Yes. Easy going, just as it is. All sorts of things can take place. Yeah, and it's always there. It resolves itself. It can't be found in the thinking, and it can't be found somewhere outside. It can't be reached because it's not it. It is already here, breathing you. So how can you find it in the ideas?

Or in practices, or in future? It's natural. It's nature. That's it for comments? Is it? Yeah. You want to return back to the spiel? I can tell you where you were. No, you can say a few words now. I'm saying almost as much as you're saying. Okay, we've got Armanaz. No concepts, questions, words. Not the question and answer. It's the answer. It's the answer. I'm not saying anything. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. So thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. or conceptualizer. Mind is a notion.

No achiever or loser. That's right. That's exactly it. Yeah. No concepts, no achievers, no losers. No questioners. Theodore. Hey Bob and Kat. How can we eliminate the interpretation of the present moment, the so-called reactive mind, which always has an answer to what is happening? Thank you. As you say, it's the so-called reactive mind. There is no such thing as mind apart from thought. Shakespeare tells you nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Without the thoughts going on they call it pure mind or no mind. It's empty. Without a thought, that mind is still there. But he called it, Banker called it, the unborn Buddha mind.

And he says why exchange the unborn for thought? But mind in its purity can't say it's good, bad, but it just is. And when we exchange it for thought, we put this concept on it, that concept on it. But it might get a problem. Yes. But not that you can stop the thought flow, you can't. The freedom is not in eliminating it. anything because the elimination and even as the question suggests will happen through the method in the future it's not it's not it's not this is not freedom freedom is in this moment as it is if the mind interprets the reality in this moment let it do it that's what mind does that's that's its function just like skin is protecting from losing a blood just like saliva is helping pre-digest the food they do their job so I totally get where you're coming from it can be quite annoying when this narrative is constantly commenting especially when it is judging and when it's harsh and unpleasant when body is tired or whatever but this not in elimination where the freedom lies is in recognition that it is all completely unimportant benign old habit which at some point was serving the body and right now it's just like a broken record it's just an unfixated awareness not fixating on any of the thoughts or concept yeah that's the way out as John as I pointed out earlier he talked about a mind that alights upon no thing we've been there you said that yes I know I'm just saying again I'm saying the same thing it's not fixating on anything okay the mind is not fixated on anything it just doesn't look like a bird butterfly to light on a blood trip on a plant of it doesn't stop anywhere just comes and go left as it is yeah not fixated on not doesn't can't cause any problems at all yes so one could even say that this is a kind of an answer like how do you how do you so-called mind which always has answer eliminate you don't you don't eliminate but you just don't fixate on it when that interpretation or meaning comes let it just flow through you let it come to one ear and out to the other just the way husbands listen to their wives yes so that's that's the freedom just let let things be exactly as they are without needing to change anything fix anything alter anything modify or correct and think just let them be as they are only the clinging to the same thing only the obsessing only the following that mind stream is what causes the discomfort and suffering so the recognition already breaks that habit of following to certain extent further recognition breaks it completely because the more you see false as false the harder it is to make yourself believe again that it has any meaning or it is serious or it is true it's like no thought is true it is not initially you can see that about one or two or three thoughts and then as you keep investigating it just makes it so obvious that there is no thought that can ever be true and Nick hence the heavy concept of purpose fell away for a me and see and seems second to the simple priority of just being aimlessly present in the river of life beautiful yeah that is yeah that is beautiful that is the answer that we had before on the on the purpose we've already had few people showing pointing to the same Rocksy was pointing the same thing yeah heavy concept of purpose fell away for me and seems second to the simple priority of just being that's just so well said simple priority of just being and then yeah whatever is the movement of life to be done is done and rocks can you talk about your experience of when there is unwellness in the body I had a boat recently most I mostly I watched the thoughts and actions happened spontaneously but there was a hook at times when I was feeling unwell could you comment what's your comment you know about being unwell for one or the other reason having physical discomfort pain or sickness it's just how it is in the moment yeah and yeah don't take me wrong I mean sometimes he steps on that on that really really painful knee and comes with it it's not that suddenly immune to to any sensations from the body yeah it doesn't hang around it was not fixed on must move on yeah well it's for more fixed on an anti the worse the worse the seeming against and it's almost for granted that if we're gonna hang around as that human costume for a bit longer then we will experience a little bit more of the seasons a little bit more of the winters and the summers and the sickness and the health and hunger and being overfed all of it is part of that human adventure so yes it may I'm sorry that you've been going through unwellness, it may get annoying, uncomfortable and yeah it may be hooking also I mean the thoughts maybe the resistance the reactiveness to it may be part of it so you just step back and see the whole pattern yeah this body's not functioning 100% no but it's no big deal anymore it will or it won't get worse and you know it gets worse, it'll seemingly worse for a moment or two but then the worse becomes the norm if you stay in it long enough we want to become special always, we are everything not the not the not the special ones alone if we don't compare or bring time place person in presence who we are we cease to exist completely as we advance in sadhana we are existence in itself that's from Ramana Maharshi yes well that's right you are existence itself yeah that's the satchitananda again existence consciousness and every pattern is the same It's uniquely different.

Wanting to be more special is unnecessary. Recognize that unique, beautiful uniqueness and specialness already and you don't really need to be any more special. You don't need that acknowledged either by anyone else. And the essence of it is existence itself. Yes. You can't negate your existence or your being. Yeah. Am I not? Habits, memories, impressions are chief obstacle on path of self-realization. This is from Ramana Maharshi. I don't really know if that's true. I mean, he's probably had some sort of a different definition of what the... I'm sure it was true in his experience because he had different definition of what was habits, patterns. Yeah.

I think he was believing that breathing, which is a really helpful pattern, was an obstacle in self-realization or whatever, eating habits. Yeah. We have to be careful with quotes like this because they always need disclaimer because suddenly then you have people who become a believers that they have to get rid of all the patterns and become what? If there is no patterns, there is no expression. Yeah. Habits, memories, impressions are chief obstacles on path of self-realization. First of all, there's no path of self-realization. It's instantaneously either now or it's not. And second of all, what the memories do have to do with that presence or absence of them?

I don't know. I'm sure he had some sort of a woven explanation to it, but yeah. You're probably answering somebody's question. Yeah, it could be. It could be. Sometimes people hung onto the past memories or habits and that is not a problem. It's not a problem. Yeah. Sometimes people hung onto the past memories or habits and that is the way to just push them off of the fixed position. But as general, it's totally untrue. It's not. But she wasn't asking anything was she? That was he. Just making a quote. No, that wasn't she. That was he. It was a quote from Ramana Maharshi. Just making a quote.

Yeah, well. Yes, yes. Yeah. So the quote is probably relevant in particular situation, particular fixed position. But in general, I would not recommend people to try to get Alzheimer's disease and get rid of the memories on the path. Because there is no path and there is no need to get rid of the memories or impressions. You can't actually to get rid of impressions, you'd have to blind yourself and pierce your eardrums. That's not a good idea. But yeah, it might have been relevant. Nick, much love, big hugs, bedtime here in Brazil. Time for rest now for the body. But away. From the body. Yeah. Have a sweet dream.

Yes. Have a good night's rest. Yeah. Restore yourself in the rest. Now, Rox says thank you for talking about the, you know, the experiences of being unwell. I knew it, but good to hear it from you both. Yeah, I know you know it. And you know, I know you don't. You wouldn't really know. I know you don't. I know you don't. I know you don't. You don't have to to really. I'm not saying that I'm not going to, you know, go to the place of any sort of self-punishment or guilt because you're beyond that. Amarnath, I is beyond I am, dualities of healthy or unhealthy body-mind, but the supporter of both like spoke of will.

I is beyond I am, but the supporter of both like spoke of will. Well, I'm sorry. You know. of will I am is a supporter of both of what? of both, duality yeah, it's kind of a necessary condition for any expression to happen, yes and Johannes is the reaction of the body not just a natural happening without any significance? totally totally, reaction of the body any body, animal body, tree body human body and the body within the body like liver or cell totally, yeah, well well said, spot on significance is only given by the narrative and that's where the suffering comes from and even the reaction of the mind as well, the same applies if the reaction to whatever, seeing a rat or seeing a neighbor is particular it can still be a totally mechanical conditioned reaction and if the narrative follows and that narrative is not given much of the importance or recognition there is no suffering also Amarnath conditioning is the meaning behind habit, memories, impressions yes, you identified rightly, this was the answer we are beyond conditioning or non-conditioning thanks for this yeah, yeah, great great, you clarified that, thank you that's it for now is it?

no, it's just it with the questions and comments so maybe you want to go back to the spiel and tell us about things having or not having the independent nature, like the body the elements how did the body come around you told us about the sperm and ovum but then it grows up and it gets the identification comes with it with the learnings think of language the capacity of reasoning develops when it learns words um learn words from your parents and that capacity of reading very useful more developed than humans and what it is than animals and other insects and birds but they have other capacities which are more developed than our capacity of reasoning is an example is like a bird's got eyesight much better than yours or mine had never have a bee Yes.

And they can fly, we can't do that. But through the capacity of reasoning we can make ourselves eyeglasses and binoculars, telescopes to see through, planes to fly and balloons to make us fly. Camilla can change colour. We can't change colour. We can put makeup on, we can dye our hair, we can put the colourful dresses. Yeah. That's the reasoning. Trying to do it with the reasoning. Not in the natural skin colour. Oh we can get a little bit of a suntan. Yeah that's all the workings of nature. So animals have those capacities of changing colours. Doing all sorts of things like that. They can't work it out in the mind.

So they're not about, they haven't learnt the words. We've learnt the words, put meaning into the words, take the meaning to be real. How did I say, the map's not the territory. The description is not described. So what we're trying to describe here is not its description. And you see that, you see when you're going down the road, you'll see signposts on the road pointing you to a certain destination. But the destination written on the label is not the destination until you get there. I'll sit here so you look at me and everyone see your beautiful eyes. Yes? And what was I talking about? The signpost.

It's only a point, it's only a point. We're talking about the capacity of reasoning, weren't we? And that reasoning is a very useful capacity. And we worked out so many things with that capacity, science, physics, astrology, all these things. these things we work out for the capacity of reasoning. But working out the meaning to life and the purpose of life can't happen because it's trying, life trying to find the purpose of itself. Like blood trying to wash away blood with blood. You can't do it. And all the practices and all the things we do can be very helpful in a lot of ways. But it never gets you to recognizing your true nature.

Why would that be? Because you're looking for something that you already are. And it's futile isn't it? And it translates as the thought I am. I am is the sense of presence expressed as a thought. But I am is not I was. It's not I will be. Or I have to be or I want to be. It is the presence. It is. I am is right now. You can't negate it. So that which I am seeking, I already am. The seeker is what is thought. Just as I'm the thinker is what is thought. But there is seeking. There is seeing. There is tasting. There is touching.

There is smelling. That's the actual functioning that's going on. ING gives it the purpose. It gives it the ing. It gives it something that's going, happening, right now. When I, when I say I think, I've formed a subject. A thinker. Instead of being that pure I am, this is now me, Bob, has become the thinker. And the thought I'm thinking is becoming the object. I've got to find this thought. I've got to find where it comes from. And what is it? Who, who am I? Who am I? I simply look at it. What am I? I'm not the person. I'm the thought. That's the reason.

That's the reason. That's the reason. That's the reason it's okay. Just eye? Simply look at it. Can there be a thinker, a thought I think, without thinking? No, thinking is the thought I think. So there can't be without thinking. So thinker and thought, subject object, duality, are fiction. But the thinking is the actuality. That's going on right now. Same with seeing. You're seeing right now. The thought comes up, I see. And I say you're seeing, you say I see. Who is it that's seeing? It's the thought, conceptual image. It's me, Bob, the Australian that's seeing. That's the conceptual image. It can be a subject, a seer, without that seeing.

And can't even be what's seen without seeing. It's the thought. So seer and seeing are contained in the seeing, just like thinker and thought are contained in the thinking. The same goes for feeling, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. The ING is something that's going on right now in the immediacy. It's a spontaneous, natural happening, occurring, right in the immediacy of this moment. Not time-bound, it's past or future. But immediately so. Happening spontaneously, naturally. I got a really pretty lucid comment from Tanya here. So, it doesn't matter what thoughts appear, even if they are about me, it doesn't mean there is a separate me. Beautiful. And you see when you say it doesn't matter.

Yes. What's matter? Solidified spirit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we call it a spiritual search we're on. Yeah. Spirit is the essence, very subtle in the essence. Matter is a solidified spirit. So when you say it doesn't matter, you're still back in the spiritual. Yeah. You haven't changed it to the material person that thinks it's got to do something about it. And let's say it doesn't have to matter. No. Because, you know, if you say me and you believe there is separate me, it's a consequence to that belief. It's just like if you believe the thought comes up that the earth is flat and you believe it and you won't be traveling around.

Or the thought comes up about the Santa Claus, it doesn't mean there is a Santa Claus. When the thought comes up the sea is blue, it doesn't mean it is. Yeah. It's a beautiful, beautiful reminder, very simple, that yes, even if they are about me, it doesn't mean there is a separate me. Of course. If the thoughts are about the monster under the bed, it doesn't mean there is a monster under the bed. They mean absolutely nothing. Thoughts have no meaning apart from the energy of belief giving them substance. That's right. The energy of belief. Yeah. Of the author. So that's another word. We put the belief in it as some energy of itself.

Yeah. But the word is not the real. It's not the thing. The belief is not the actual. And when we say energy of belief, we mean the same energy we try to put into the belief. Yeah. We say the same energy which we later on call intelligence energy. Yeah. Or awareness or God or consciousness or whatever. The label is never it. It's the one energy that is patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing as everything. Just one. You can call it God if you like. Mm-hmm. And now Amarna says, as long as thinker is absent or identified, thoughts are powerless without belief or meaning given. That's right. Meaning giver.

As thinker itself is a thing, as thinker itself is a thought or illusion. Yeah. Thinking happens naturally, effortlessly, spontaneously without identification of body-mind complex. Thinking belongs to world, universal mind. I am beyond the universe, beyond mind. That's right. And Johannes, that what we are is before everything that is appearing. Therefore, it couldn't be perceived. Yeah. Very, very well said. Yeah. Very well, well put. Yes. That's another little explanation for the mind. Yeah. Because it appears before the mind. It can't be perceived by the mind because it is already is. It already is when the mind appears. But of course. So there's no perceiver to perceive it.

That's right. Perceiving is going on. And there is no time either to appear as. But yeah, it's still a good little piece of logic for the mind to shut up and get off the picture. At least that's what Julia likes to do. Yeah. And that's what she used as an explanation why the logic sometimes really works and shifts. It doesn't matter what the thought appears from Tanya, Rox is answering. The thoughts are not the enemy, part of the whole. Getting on the thought train is the problem. Yeah. Thoughts can be very useful. Yeah. So they're not the enemy, but they can be very self-destructive when we move on.

Yeah. Yeah. They can be very self-destructive when we believe that they have some power. That's right. So getting on the thought train is the problem as if we are real, as if they are real. We can love those thoughts and wave them off on the train. Beautiful. Yeah. Just yeah. Love them, appreciate them. They're like little creatures of the absolute. They are also a creation. They are also a children of God. So you just treat them as such. Yeah. You know, a little idea. Oh, sweet. But don't take it on board. That's the freedom. JK? So what to do about seeming others that are seemingly suffering?

Whatever spontaneously comes up. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is choice what to do comes up when the situation is there. Like there is no- Natural response. Yeah, you may see a hungry man on the street and you may be moved to take him to your home. Another day you may see a hungry man on the street and you may be moved to buy him a dinner. Yet another day you may completely, completely be overloaded. Attention may be completely overloaded somewhere else and you won't even know. And there is no right or wrong thing to do because which state your attention, your heart and your mood is at the moment is a collaboration of all the universal forces included.

It's not in your hands what you're going to do. You just stay open and find out. Another person suffering, ah, let's see what the body is going to do. Let's see what's the response comes fresh and new in the moment. We can, of course, we have social norms and standards that, you know, we have Christian norms and standards, feed the hungry and so on. And if that... If that is how life brings up the ideas of what to do, perfect. Following the norms or standards or religions, perfect. That's always what's happening and how it's happening. But, yeah, what we are pointing to is that it's not really in your hands.

See what forces, what behaviors will unfold in the moment. Get out of the way and the chances are that instead of being busy in self-referential thinking and obsessing about me, me, me, you will actually see that suffering person. Because many, many times we are just too busy negotiating or answering our bosses in the head or arguing with the spouses over something that happened a year ago or a week ago and we just miss out of what is going on in the immediacy. Tania. Oh, yes, I was not suggesting thoughts are the enemy. Yes, thoughts are part of the whole, just like the seeing, feeling, tasting.

touching i like that's not hoping i like that's not hopping on the thought train giving them a nice wave and not clinging or rejecting leaving them as is exactly yeah beautiful and julia says i resemble that i'm enough no sufferer so also suffering is only apparent absent in absolute consciousness see appearance as appearance another way of looking at suffering of others i think the most honest and that's again coming from i don't know where way to deal with suffering of others is actually ask them what they need because there is so many situations and people and and systems that are doing what they think is good for others and and that causes only more suffering so you see the suffering you you moved to offer service of help wonderful ask let them be guide let let life guide you to them that's the way and amarnath oh no sufferer we've seen that already only apparent absence in absolute consciousness see appearance as appearance and of course it is not the way to live but it is also a way of life yeah it is also a way of life and this is in the way of life it is also a way of life and it is absolutely it is absolutely to discard the suffering which again is not in our hands it's not that you say you see someone being hungry or sick or someone who just hurt themselves emotionally over a trauma or something and you say no this is just a dream i'll go and get an ice cream no it's probably not in your nature because you wouldn't be here if you're here you probably taste the suffering and you have developed enough empathy to even ask questions about serving others and there would be people who do have that type of attitude and that's also life the sociopaths and people who do not empathize and don't have capacity or even delight in harming others they also like they're not the doers they didn't choose to be this way and now i think it's time because i can see thank you all from amarna and from you tanya thank you lovely expressions of the one essence especially bob and kat lots of love to you all and thank you for your contribution yeah very good thank you everyone thank you for being here with us and asking lucid questions and giving beautiful answers to them and seeing through it and enjoying with us still only the one only the one through all of those eyes through all of those mouths that one life that one essence is speaking dancing interacting thank you thank you all love you all and love to all and james and kathleen also and david and roxy and jikai and everyone and rohan and yes i'm not gonna be reading all the names but so yeah thank you all