Sailor Bob, Kat - nonduality, 13 Dec 2020

Good morning people. The same old goes on. Hope you're all well, happy, presently aware. Without taking too much notice of the conceptual imaging that's going on in the head. We call it Advaita, what we talk about in Hinduism. In Hinduism it's called Advaita, meaning non-duality. And they try to describe the non-duality by saying it's one without a second. Not two. One without the other. Only that. That is all there is. And that's what they call a spiritual teaching. And that's all there is, is spirit when you really look at it. Conceptual. Matter is congealed spirit. It's a spirit that's seemingly solidified. Everything is spirit or essence.

That's why you can say it's like, it's dreamlike. It's only appearance. It's the only one essence. They call it many different names. For God. Tukkanala, Jesus, Shiva. All sorts of different names. And others call it simply ordinary awareness. That's this awareness that you already are. Because that's how Satchitananda Nama Rupa breaks down. That is existence. Satchitananda is conscious. Nanda is loving to be. And the other two factors, Nama Rupa. Nama is the name you've got. People have given you. And the Rupa is the form, the body. That's the body-mind. But is anyone who is not existing right now? No, you're existing. Anyone who is not conscious right now, you know you're conscious.

Anyone not happy to be. You're all happy to be. You wouldn't be dead. You'd rather be alive than dead. So, you are that already. And that's why, where that mantra comes about. I am that. And you realise that everything is that. Not that you are everything. But that you are a thing appearing in that. That-ness. The pure awareness. And that's another label for us. If you like awareness. Well, God. If you like to call. Awareness is intelligence. Not the intellect. Not the thoughts, concepts, ideas. But the intelligence that's expressing as that awareness that forms the planets, the stars, the earth, the seas and the tides, the trees, the flowers, the plants, these patterns, shapes and forms which we call human beings.

And that's another name for that. And Andrew is being. Knowing. And loving to be. And everyone loves to be right now. And you're knowing that you are that being. And that knowingness is an activity. Awareness, you can say, is intelligence. The mind appears in it or on it. We're not the body. And the body appears in all. Without the body, without the life, that awareness, you couldn't have a body. And that body couldn't blink, couldn't frown, couldn't move its arms, legs or breathe, or meet its heart or do anything at all without that activity, that intelligent activity functioning through it. So that's what we've lost sight of.

We are the life. The life itself. We are that activity of life. But we've encapsulated ourselves in a conceptual image. And they tell you in Buddhism, that great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's awareness without any concepts going on. And that's what they call no mind or Buddha mind, is a mind without the concepts. The concepts can be going on if they're not taken any notice of, they're not labelled. The mind's just about another vibrating pattern of energy appearing. That's all it is anyway. But what would you be without it? You can only be that. You can be the absolute without it. But you wouldn't be this person, this body-mind entity, which we've believed ourselves to be.

And that's the cause of all our problems. No, it's a useful pattern, shape and form to express through. That's why the mind, thinking, can be very useful. But it's self-destructive. And there's no such thing as mind. No such thing at all. Show me your mind. You can't show me anything and say, this is mind. But we say, my mind. Not bad enough believing that. We say, my mind. Not bad enough believing that there is a mind. But when we make it worse and believe it is my mind, that's making it worse because we've taken it away from its absoluteness, seemingly taken it away, with the conceptualising, its absoluteness into the conceptual image of the person.

The personal. Person is not reality. Person is not the actual. It comes from the Latin word, persona, the mask. It is a mask of concepts or words, which we put on ourselves, on that seemingly appearing in awareness. We put them on and take them to be my self. We've taken that to be the self when it's the absolute self. And there's no ending with the absolute self. It's only the one self, called atman or self. But we say, my atman or my self. And we've limited ourselves. We've taken ourselves from the absolute and encased ourselves in a cocoon of concepts. And we're stuck there. Until something stirs, or you hear something, or there's a resonation there with something, then I'll say there's got to be more to life than this.

Because this life is full of suffering. I have moments of joyousness. And I think when that should be our true nature, it's our true nature. That's the great perfection of the absolute. But no, that conceptual image is not our true nature. It is a fiction. And we've taken ourselves to believe that. And then when we move, we think we've got to get out of it. We need to become something. Try and get back to it. Or try and realise it. We don't realise we've got to try and get back to it. We try and realise it. Make it real. But it was real in the first place.

But when we put the words and the labels on, that took away its reality. Took away its reality into the appearance. Into the manifestation. The manifestation is appearance. And how it appears. It's illusion. It's an illusionary appearance of that. And it's an intelligence. The way it patterns, shapes and forms. And all the variety of patterns it's shaping and forming. Bodies, minds, trees, flowers, worlds, earths, planets, stars. It doesn't imply it's a fusion of the innate intelligence. And it's an activity. Intelligent activity. An activity is a movement. Though the awareness doesn't move, what goes on it is nothing but activity. Seemly movement appears to be a movement on it.

It's a spontaneous throb or pulsation that's going on all the time. And forming all this variety of patterns, shapes and forms. Forming the concept of time, past, future. And it's... And it's putting the concepts of how it is. Pleasant, painful, happy, sad. Loving, hating, positive, negative. All thought. Shakespeare told you that there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. There was a pattern that's new or understood. And the saga does tell you. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. And realise what that is. Imagination. And imagination. Break that word imagine down to image in. That's all we're doing. We're creating mental images.

There was another man who knew or understood. Wasn't a man, he was the essence. Who had recognised his true nature. And there have been many others. Patterns, shapes and forms that are reached. But there are thousands that haven't. Just like when this body... Fire, yeah. But the shakes is making the... Making the shakes worse. They get the... Making this body-mind image, which is a pattern. Think it's taken itself to be real. The personal. That person is just a mental image. Imagined. Look in the mirror. You've got a mirror, you look into it quite often. When you're not looking in it, or whether you're looking into it, what's in the mirror?

It's always full of reflections. Always. Even if you put a... A cover over it. That... That cover would be reflected in the mirror also. It's always totally full of reflections. Reflections are the concept we've taken. The mental concepts. So you can't say that image is not there. You've got your image of the face in the mirror. Go up to the mirror and try and grab it. You can't say it is there. You can't say it's not there where it appears to be. And you can't say it is there. So this life that you are, you can't say what it is. But you can't say that it's not.

You can't. But we use the term, life is intelligence or awareness. And everything is a pattern, shape and form appearing in that awareness. And I tell you, Nagita, the sword can't cut it. The fire can't burn it. The wind can't dry it. The water can't drown it. Why? Because they're all like reflections in the mirror are contained in that. But that fire, can it burn itself? Can it heat itself? Can the sword cut itself? The wind can dry itself. The water can't drown itself. So these things happen with the seeming vibration. But there's no self-nature to any of it. There's no self-nature to any of it.

There's no self-nature to any of it. Can this so-called person fix itself? It can't. It's the life essence that's doing it. Patterning, shaping and forming it. It's the life essence that brought it into existence. How do you know you were brought into existence? Well, you can't remember your birth because you had no words. People told you you were born. And then you watch other births happening and you say, I was born, it was like that. But you don't know anything about it. You just don't know anything about it. You just don't know anything about it. You don't know anything about it yourself. And neither do they.

And you don't know anything about it until you learn words. And about the age of two or somewhere around that age, two, two and a half or a bit earlier or a bit later, the capacity of reasoning developed. And that's another capacity of this life. A life vibrating and it has a capacity of reasoning, it has a capacity of that intelligence, functioning intelligence expressing out of it. And the capacity of reasoning developed. And it's not words. It's not words from its parents. And the parents gave it a name and it believes itself to be this name and form. I am Bob, the Australian. I'm a good fellow.

I'm not so bad, good. I'm unhappy. I'm fearful. I've had a bad childhood. I've had a bad life. Or is it everything else? All these concepts are words based on past events and experiences. And if we didn't have the words, how could I say it was good, bad, pleasant, painful? And would I be dwelling in the past? I would use the memory, Ben, but I couldn't live in the past. I could imagine the future, but I couldn't live in the future. It's always happening right now. But we've taken on the idea we are the separatists and formed this conceptual image. Now that image, the Bob, has become the reference point, the self-centre, the ego.

And everything now becomes relative to that imagined, imaged-in concept of what I believe to be. Instead of seeing there is no relativity, relativity is relationship. It is duality. And recognising it's all the one essence, there's no relationship. If I didn't put the word I and other on it, what would it be? It would be just as it is. A spontaneously vibrating pattern of intelligence, which is doing what it's doing, causing the seasons to be. And in those seasons, bringing trees, flowers and things from that to life, and animals to mate, and birds to build nests, and things to form. All in this due course, in due season.

We put the concept of the season on it, the concept of years, days, months, weeks. And so we got out of the central season, seasonal functioning, and to conceptualise ideas. And because of all this conceptualisation going on, that self-centre takes it on and becomes fearful. And it becomes anxious. It becomes happy, unhappy, distressed, depressed, angry, guilty. All this psychological spontaneous functioning goes on, causes anxiety, fear, stress, guilt, shame. And this existence, conceptual image, causes our bondage. So we need to be rid of it. Kat points out that there's some questions there. So get into it. I'm glad there is. This is a good one for questioning.

People are pretty well into it, advanced into it. They know what we're talking about and put good input into it. So away you go. If you've got any doubts, if you're new and got any doubts, don't hesitate to ask. Yes, there is a comment from Rohan. Hi Bob. Many of the great traditions speak of surrender as a means to the truth. Does this mean surrendering the belief in a separate self? Of course it does. If there's no self, who needs surrender? If you are the abode of the abode, the absolute, who needs to surrender? If you've got a, you know, who do we think wants to let go?

There's got to be a letting go. Or there's got to be an investigation. It's all that conceptual image. Yes. It just falls into place of itself. There is the dropping of it. And you can say that's surrender, that letting go. But when you realise that the centre has been a false image all along and it can't let go, it can't do anything, well, there is that natural, spontaneous letting go, not fixating on it, not keeping it there. And it was a struggle to keep it there. We had to reinforce it continually. Shishagiri says, Surrender is a hallmark of bhakti yoga. It is immersing oneself into the image of a personal god.

In essence, to be one with. Surrendering a personal self with its appearance of suffering due to responsibility. If you recognise you were never a person in the first place, who needs to surrender again? The personal was never, there was never a person there. Yes, I like Rohan's idea of surrendering the illusion, false belief. It's a good one. Armanach, dear Bob, can you explain more about mirror, mind with reflections, please? Sometimes you say it is there and sometimes absent. The mind which reflects everything. Well, use the mirror, or use the awareness as the mirror. Mirror's awareness is like the mirror. That's a poor analogy, of course, but mirror's awareness is the life essence itself.

It is the pure functioning intelligence energy. But all the manifestation, the things that appear in the manifestation, appear in that awareness. Can you conceptualise something? An awareness is like space, it's empty, or like a mirror. Can you conceptualise or postulate something outside of emptiness, outside of space? What would it be in? So it's all appearing in that space like awareness. Awareness is like space. It's a good like space. But, so it is the content of that awareness. It is that awareness, patterning, shaping and forming it. But the pattern, shapes and forms are not as real. You can't say they're not there, but you can't say they are there.

And all this manifestation is made up of things. You are a thing, I am a thing, the tree is a thing, the chair is a thing. Everything is things, which we put labels on. Chair, tree, flower, you and me. We've stopped those, taken those things and put labels on them and made them seem separate. Separate things. But they're not even things. Can something come from no thing? No thing, we say no thing, we think it is nothing. When you say nothing, we think it's vacuum, void, space, no, zero. But it's no thing, means it hasn't got any shape, any pattern, any form. Just like awareness hasn't got any pattern, shape or form.

But it is a basic screen in which pattern, shapes and forms display and just like the mirror has got pattern, shapes and forms appear in the mirror. But they haven't contaminated or corrupted the mirror. Neither have any of these pattern, shapes and forms corrupted that life essence that you are. So all these so-called sins that you've got that seemingly have corrupted that persona, that pattern, it's never been so. And it wouldn't happen if you weren't relating to the pattern as a sin. Johannes asks, so aliveness has no centre. Aliveness is all there is? Yes. Life is all there is. If there's no centre, try and find a centre.

Try and find a centre to it. Try and find a centre to anything. Centre to space. A centre to time. A centre to this body. What's the centre in this body? A self-centre or reference point. It's only a conceptual image. There's no reference point. So there's, from John David, I read a wonderful pointer from Nisargadatta in Prior to Consciousness this morning. How did you reach your parents deliberate on that? Love you Bob. I should be there with you. Yeah, we wish you well, John, one day. What did he... The quote is, how did you reach your parents? Parents? Yes. How did you reach your parents?

Yes. That's Nisargadatta. Deliberate on that. Yes. Amarnath, duality, separation never existed. Except in our own imagination. That's also from Nisargadatta. Exactly, that is true. That's what I've been saying. That's what you can say too when you look at it. That's right. That's what you can know. Know the truth. Yes, so I can maybe just come by and because there is no fresh questions from this week, we cut it short. I mean, we didn't cut it short, but we actually didn't manage to address all the questions last week. Hi, everyone. I'll just go back to those questions. I have some screenshots and hopefully I won't miss any of them.

Starting here. So that was Sally requesting, can you talk about Atma? Yes. Atman is supposed to be the self-setter. Atman is the one self, the total self, the pure self. And it is, but not the personal self. It's the life essence is the Atman or self, the awareness. Another name for that. And that is from Haman. I am this immediacy which comes and goes at the same instance. That's why there is no time and space for the mind to grasp it. Yes, that's good. That's good, Haman. That's from last week. I don't know if he's with us today. If he is, that's good. Yes. Words are limited expression of unlimited.

That's Amarnath quoting me. I'll just get the other screenshot. Oopsie. Oh, I don't know if I'm in the right order. I'll just get from here. Okay. So there is a question from Cha. Why aren't we aware of all our dreams? And why do we sleepwalk without being aware? And then Rohan is saying, but how is it that we know that we sleepwalked? It is only after someone tells us that it happened that we then infer that we sleepwalked. But it is not our direct experience. That's a really good observation. The same thing happens any sort of a daydream, any sort of a drama. When we get entangled in the drama, let's say that...

There might be some parts of a shut off, deep sleep, but you haven't stopped breathing. You haven't died when you're sleepwalking or dreaming. There's parts where it's not getting through. When I was on the grog, I used to have blackouts. Walking around doing all sorts of stupid things and didn't know anything about it at all. Why? Because it had killed the ourselves and the brain. It would shut them off. The functioning was still there, the life functioning, the breathing, the heart breathing, even in spite of all the abuse that was coming. Yes, and now a question here. By using words you create verbal universe. It's nothing but imagination.

That's Amarnath quoting Nisargadatta. And a comment, if you don't think, talk, what you are is self. That's quoting you. If you don't think, what you are is self. Why aren't we aware of our dreams and why we sleepwalk without being aware that I've already read from Cha? And Bill, expression can be body language. The way we look, even looking at our pets. We often say that we... Why are you so happy or sad? What are you so happy or sad about? Yes, it expresses in all ways. Yes. The natural intelligence expressing itself in all its variety and diversity. It seems there is multiple egos, one being the me in the body, and that is not real.

And then the body and the whole manifestation is a dream, not real. So also is the ego that's from Cha. Can you separate the ego from the body? Yes. Can you separate the body from the total? No, no, they are one. There's still the total. That what appears to be separate. There's still the total. And Barbara was saying conscious contact is now. Exactly. Yes. Nothing is coming and going. Nothing is coming and going is you, self. That's from Amarna. And the awareness must be aware of all. Of it. But through this bodies we have only limited awareness, Cha says. And Amarna says limiting is thought.

There is no limited entity, only imagination. You're not. Not sorry at all. Sure. Limiting is thought. There is no limited entity, only imagination. Mind is completely false like a dream. Yes. Johannes. Who is recognizing the absolute and how? And Amarna says there is no subject-object division. It's lost. There are no two. Questioner is false. Yes. And Johannes says intellectually it's clear that falseness is understood. But I seemingly could not leave the false self behind. You want to answer on this one? What does that mean to you? Johannes, intellectually it is clear that the falseness is understood. Yes. But I seemingly could not leave the false self behind.

When you understand the image in the mirror, does the image in the mirror disappear? But you know the truth about it. When you see the sky is not blue, it still appears to be blue. The appearance will still seemingly be there. That's why they call it the phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so. Yes. I would also add that saying intellectual understanding, I would say that synonymous of that word intellectual understanding is belief. Intellectually you only believe. Somebody told you there is heaven and hell. Oh, yes, I understand it. No, you don't. You believe. There is no such thing as intellectual understanding because, yes, the whole intellect is a sphere of belief.

And the sagadatta says understanding is all. He doesn't say intellectually. Intellectually, yes. And who was it, the yoga teacher that we had kicked off yoga? Maharishi Mahesh Yoga? No, no, no. Yogananda? No. Oh, you mean, yes. It doesn't matter. But anyway, he said. Shankara? No. He says right understanding. Oh, yes. It's the right understanding, not the false understanding. Yes. So basically what we call intellectual understanding is what we learn from somebody else. Somebody else told us. That's what I say. It's pure intelligence, not your intellects. It's intelligence that's functioning in the universe. It's not in your mind. There's intelligence that's living here, not your intellect.

Yes. Yes. So there is a knowing beyond the understanding of what somebody has explained. And that knowing is the knowing of existence, knowing that you are. There's nothing else apart from that knowing that you are that can be really understood. Because the rest is basically just accepted. If we explain how, what say, whatever the machinery works, we say, ah, yeah, I understand intellectually. But that's just learning. That's creating through believing. Yes. Well, prior to the words, that pure intelligence is there. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That pure intelligence is there. The pure seeing, the pure hearing, the touch, you can tell the pure intelligence is there without the words.

And that intellect was only word learning, you know, like the word, learning words. Reasoning. And I also get that part that, see, OK, I understand. I've checked. There is no one there. But it still feels like there is someone who is speaking, who is singing, who is doing, who is describing. deciding it feels this way and for this yeah the analogy with mirror or blue sky well it feels like it feels like there's a sensation there yeah we'll have a look see if you can pinpoint that sensation what that feeling is see if you find a center to it or a point and if you say as you say if it's not in the guts or an ache in the heart it can feel very painful but go into that pain make it worse where we are pinpointing with where is that not in the stomach where is it actually if you've got a bone or a bruise on your body but a broken bone you can pinpoint it put your finger on it'll hurt but when you look into the psychological pains that are going on inside you see if you can find them saving a pinpoint and if there is you think they will go and assuming they make it worse try and make it worse but all your attention to make that worse and you'll find it'll disappear it'll dissolve because if you're putting attention into your mind making it worse you're looking at it from the head or somewhere trying to look into the throat or the heart or the belly so if you're looking at her up in the head and trying to make it worse well there's no energy going into it down in the belly of the house dispersed nothing can live without energy what Martin be explaining it probably what I did that hey I think you explained it brilliantly because what do you say yes just go and see even if it feels like there's someone who is looking out there's somebody looking out how somebody speaking somebody deciding yeah really is does it really feel like there is somebody doing it if you really go deep to the to the sensation you will see that yes there is seeing will you say that sensation is in the body well how do you know that yeah that's right yeah so if it feels that there is someone doing the seeing or someone doing the seeking yes just go straight into it who is there the seeing is obvious but is there really anybody doing it where the seeing starts does it really start where is it what is that at the end of that process and that's the thing we can you know you've got that same thing that points or that center somewhere or that feeling inside you really nobody can ever understand this also nobody can ever do it for you you know people many people point it out try and point it out but unless you do it yourself and go into it yourself it's never going to happen you might get a so-called intellectual intellectual understanding and follow the words I'll do this and do that but really do it yourself yes not with the words try it out that's the acid test does it work put the acid test on it try and find the point my heart with all my mind when I know all I all my power all I love myself yeah something like that yeah yeah if you if you try and look for the source of that feeling and you won't find it and then even though it feels like it won't maybe feel like there's someone there because yeah well there is a presence but there is not a one there is not an object that is the source of the presence there is a liveness there is an existence there is a being but that being doesn't have any any location or any central point or any uh it's like the thoughts appear in awareness or seemingly honor or in awareness but if you're not let the thoughts be there without focusing on them and then what mind is there there then that's what they call no mind thoughts are there but we're not fixating I'm not attaching to it not doing anything thing with them at all and they're free to move and like everything else in the manifestation which is transient that the thoughts will change too and the feelings and emotions that have been brought up by the thoughts they will dissolve also it's a matter of walking the walk doing it instead out just right words off and understanding intellectually meaning believing it and giving a good spiel on non-duality yeah yeah but do it if you want it yeah it it may it may start in a way that I think it was in some of the pointers people said that you actually you don't I think Rohan was saying you don't realize you were sleepwalking unless someone just points it out to you, because in direct experience it is always that being and the content of the being, the consciousness or awareness.

Yes, that's right. But it seemingly feels like, yes, we do offer some different model of reality. The model of reality that we grew up and adopted, that there is a world outside and there is a me inside and there is a constant interaction between the inside and outside and there is a constant battle, striving to get better education, to get a better situation, a more comfortable life. And medicating that lack of self-worth, really. And constant mediation, constant two, duality, fight. And the model that we are presenting is just so much simpler, because there is no entity, there is no outside-inside. There is just the flow of life, flow of the energy, movement of energy.

I may still be moved to argue with someone or fight with someone, but that's not my doing. That's just how the wind is blowing. There is a low pressure here and the air is moving and is compensating and is balancing itself. And then the inside-out, which are inseparable, constantly in dance, constantly is not even interacting, because you need two to interact. But they just replenish itself. Like when the level of water is low, the body gets and drinks and the air is being exchanged and the thinking. I'm just looking for the models of reality. The definition of reality is that which never changes. What doesn't change?

The awareness in which it all appears on, like the mirror doesn't change, no matter how many reflections or images appear in it. Neither does awareness. It doesn't change, but the pattern shapes the thought, the feelings, the emotions. All appear constantly changing, but they are the reality, but not how they are appearing. They are the reality in essence, but not in its true nature. Not in the appearance, in the forms. Yes, reality is the consciousness. Formless. And the content of reality is the way the reality expresses. Because just being no thing and having no shape, form or pattern, it doesn't even have a glimpse of itself.

So the way it experiences and expresses itself is through forms. And I think one of the questions I've seen when I was taking screenshots was also about form and emptiness in Buddhism. How the form comes into emptiness. I may find it or I may just walk into it slowly as it comes. Yes, so there was a comment from Amarnath, that's also still last week. Rollercoaster. Center. Part is self. Periphery is mind. Expression. Let's enjoy the boss without enjoyer. So the life, the whole manifestation is like a rollercoaster. Self is the center and periphery is the mind. The mind always goes to the extremes. And the mind is just the narration, really, of what's happening.

And expression. Mind expression. That's another way of looking at forms. The creation of the mind. That's also ancient scriptures call it sometimes. Let's enjoy the boss without the enjoyer. Yeah, the enjoy-ing. Enjoy-ing. And Amarnath says, Bob and Kat express radiate so much of infinite love bliss towards all being. Can't be understood with mind. Transcend it or bypass it. Thank you, Amarnath. And we are maintaining obscuring by habit. Don't maintain. Investigate. You are that. Thanks, Kat, for this. Thank you. Yeah, maintenance is so consuming. So much of the energy and so much of the tension and responsibility. And it doesn't mean that maintenance doesn't happen effortlessly when the move of the energy, when the wind blows you this way or the river of life blows you and it appears as it.

JK, I think you mentioned we don't have to discover and there is no I to resonate. So what seems to draw me into being here now? Watch-ing. Watch-ing. I-N-E-R-N-G. Thank you. It is that life essence which you are. It doesn't have to bring you into it. You're always in it, but it's pulling. It's letting you know in no uncertain terms. And it's moved you on from... That's what happens. It moves us. We're locked into the mind for years and years and years. And some sooner or later, something will move you to say you'll resonate with something. There's a little bit more to it than this.

And follow that and it'll take you to where you've got to go. It might make it to all sorts of different things, but let it pull you where it's pulling you to. Yes. What seems to draw me? So what is it? It's a good question. What is it? What is it that makes you breathe? What is it that makes you see? If it's only one self, it must be the self drawing itself to itself. You are that. Open up and realise that and stop putting the brakes on by believing there's somebody or something that needs to be drawn. Yeah. And this it, it expresses us everything.

It expresses us natural attraction. Obviously there is some attraction towards non-duality pointing, since you're here. And that attraction, where does it come from? What created it in the first place? It's the one origin. It's the one source. That's an easy answer. Johannes? It is so close, but it is not a thing. It is unknowable. That's right. Yeah. Very close, unknowable. Was there anyone on that last one? That was the last one you didn't do, was there? This was from last week that we didn't read. Oh, I see. Yeah. Oh, this is Ammanath. Beautiful, dear Bob, for this both questioner and answerer are false. Yeah. Questioning, answer-ing is going on, but nobody does it.

Nobody's only sitting and it's just like nobody blows the wind. Nobody's doing heartbeat. It's just I-N-G. Once upon a time, that's Cha, once upon a time I thought there was a me in the body, but it seems to be a false story. And that's right. Exactly. It is a false story. See how life looks without that story. And see where it takes place once upon a time. Good on you. Yes, good on you. Recognise that it's a story. All fairy story starts with once upon a time. Yeah, and how well everything, how more natural, more effortless and more joyous and more happy, everything flows without that concept of a me or self being responsible, guilty, ashamed of whatever is happening, of whatever the life moves, like infinite amount of causes creates every next scene spontaneously unfolding.

And without that entity taking credit for it and taking blame for it, how much easier and more natural and more obvious that explanation of reality would be. But even further away, you don't even need to explain anything. Because there is no one who needs to have anything explained. Nasser, it is neither knowable nor unknowable. Whatever you say about it, that isn't it. Because as Bob just said, it is not in the mind. Beautifully pointed. I'll read it again. It's neither knowable nor unknowable. Whatever you say about it, that is not it. Because as Bob just said, it is not in the mind. That's from Nasser.

Beautiful. And Sharna, unless I see what is not there, my present happiness is all there is. Yeah, once you start seeing what is not there and imagining what is not there, which basically means once you start thinking, because thinking is always about what is not there, then the happiness is lost. Yeah, happiness is there if you're not imagining or obscuring it with illusory, imaginary thought up ideas. Yeah, I see. Amarna, don't separate body, mind, world, and God. Are all three false creations. Dissolving, renewing, happens like a dream. If there is no dreamer, dream collapses. Dreamer might still go on, but there is no one to actually have anything to be said about it.

Yeah, it's just dreaming, like dreaming, like breathing, being. And Cha, I know but we must use words to discuss the dream. God, consciousness is the dreamer, we are that. Or you could say prior to the dream, prior to consciousness. Yeah, you can use the word that consciousness is the dreamer. I would still say it's a dreaming. Yeah, consciousness appears on that awareness. Awareness has got no labels, no things at all about it, it's just that pure life. And then with consciousness we've got to put it into pattern, shapes, forms, and words. I'll see if there's any new comments from this one, because, oh yes, we do, because my phone is not refreshing it.

Try again. Yeah, oh my gosh. I got it refreshed now. So, what can be remembered or forgotten is not you. That's from Nisargadatta. Amanath. Infinite thanks-for-God, world, dream, universal mind is inside us moving through ourselves as us. Oh, I didn't even know I said that. And Johannes, it was out of the heart sutra. It is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Oh, thank you Johannes. Yes, that was in the last week's comment. Yeah, we are up to date now. That's right. The heart sutra. Beautiful, beautiful scripture too. There is no old age, there is no dying, there is no, yeah, nothing. It negates everything. And Bill, enjoy both as Kat said, for without being there is nothing.

Without being, there is no thing. Yeah, yeah, that's the point. Enjoy all of it, or none of it, like Nisargadatta used to say. I see if we have any, that my phone had lost. Yes, we have from Steve, morning Bob and Kat. In the no conceptual awareness shared by all, it's late in UK and my no head will have to hit the pillow soon. Thank you both for sharing on the essence upstream from thoughts and the body. And Michelle, it's funny as you are answering my question as I'm writing them. Nice. Beautiful. And Rohan, eventually all that one has learned will have to be forgotten.

That's from Ramana Maharshi. And Michelle, how do you stop or change thoughts that are causing suffering? Is there any need to when it is said that all is God or perfect and whole as it arises? So isn't it, isn't it easier to change then duality in itself? I try stop thoughts that are causing depression and focus on non conceptual awareness. But when I start thinking again, the cycle repeats. I realize the thoughts are painting an illusion, but they almost never fail to take hold. How seemingly, how seemingly take hold. But, see it's the same stick when you go up to the bad thoughts. Just leave them as is.

Again, put the energy into it. How more deeply depressed can I get than this? Try and see. How more angry can I get? But don't take it out on anybody, your anger. It's the trying to stop them that keeps them there. The resistance to them puts us in more conflict. So, future joy and safety itself is an abstraction to realization. This is from Nisargadatta. We are already safe and joyful. Yep. Though efforts are lost in the choiceless ease and spontaneous joy. That's from you, Sailor Bob. By leaving out, I have to hold dialogue here. Shishagiri asks, what if I fell during sleepwalking? Well, people have.

Yes. And Tanya, the body is the totality. Is awareness appearing as body? That is how there is no separation. Because all is awareness. That's right. That's right. And D, could you say more about nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so? Is that true on all levels? Yes. No thing, even if you say it's good or bad, there's still no thing. Yeah. Yeah, and also, you can actually take any example, any example probably from, I don't know, from the past, and then see how over the years, your take on whatever happened. Let's say something bad happened. A child got sick or, you know, had an accident.

And 10, 20 years up the stream, first of all, who knows what he's been spared of? Next of all, who knows how the life has been, has directed it? That's all speculation. But really, saying that something is good and bad is equally speculative. It's equally always from taking a position from some reference point. It is good for me. Like Bob has this beautiful story about the canary and the owl. You want to tell that story? You don't want to say it? Okay, I'll say it because it's a beautiful story. It really illustrates the point. He was living, you were living in a farm, or was it in Kalrama?

In a farm. And he had a beautiful little yellow canary who used to sing his heart out every morning. So Bob would take the whole cage outside and hang it on the branch of the tree. So the canary could have a little bit of a sun and a little bit of a day. And at night he would take the cage back home. So the canary was safe. And one night he forgot. And the next morning he found a couple of feathers and a few drops of blood at the bottom of the cage. And the people who were gathering on the farm, they say, oh, that's so terrible.

That's horrible. Poor canary. And Bob said, well, it's terrible for canary. It wasn't so bad for the owl that had a meal. And there is, of course, everybody knows the Chinese proverb about the guy who had the horse. And then one day the horse disappeared and the whole village was sorry for the guy because it was a poor guy. Poor farmer, the only horse. That's terrible. He said, well, it is what it is. And then the horse came back with a bunch of other wild horses that he brought to the place. And people said, oh, that's wonderful. And he says, it is what it is.

And then his son, his only son, started taming the wild horses so they could work for the farm. And he fell off and broke the leg. And the whole village, oh, that's how terrible. And he says, it is what it is. And then the army came and wanted to take the son to the army. So because he had the broken leg, they left him behind. And the whole village says, how wonderful. And he says, it is what it is. And the story goes on and on and on and on. So that's how everything, nothing's good or bad. Everything is just, you know, everything is what you say it is.

So you don't really have to call anything good or bad. And then it is as it is. I'll see there. I think there is some update on my phone now. How natural attraction between emptiness to emptiness can be seen? How is the natural attraction in emptiness to emptiness? If you are attracted to emptiness, that's the emptiness in you that is calling out for itself, for the reflection of itself. If you are attracted to love, that's the love that you are. Resonation. That natural resonation. Like here is a magnet to another. They all have filings to itself. Is the life longing for itself. This was from the prophet.

Prophet, yeah. Children are not your children. The life longing for itself. And that same life longing for itself, it longs for itself in every single children. Like the whole world is the reflection of the children of that life longing for itself. Emptiness longing for itself is the natural attraction. That's a nice question. It's a nice thing to ponder on. Amanath, don't touch the thoughts, but catch hold of the thinker as who am I? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. When you've got all these thoughts coming out, ask yourself, who's asking them? And now there's the answer, I am. Well, who's I am? Have a look and see if you can find a center.

You find an I am. It's just another question. Another thought. Thoughts are questions. Questioner is a question. Johannes, the Heart Sutra said that in emptiness is no discernment and no consciousness. Could you say something about it? In the emptiness there is no discernment and no consciousness. Consciousness has no pure knowledge, like pure awareness. The screen. Yeah, and ultimately it discards everything. It discards the is-ness, the existence and the non-existence. The living and dying, the seeking and finding, all of it is but a dream. No thing has ever happened. Yeah, that's the essence of Heart Sutra. I used to recite it in the monasteries when I was there.

I sing it. It's beautiful. I'll have a look before my phone stops refreshing it. Where are we? Oh yeah, this is Amanath. Intellectual understanding ultimately leads to experiential understanding. That's from Ramana Maharshi. Ultimately intellect is transcended. It itself is borrowed from self. That's from Ramana Maharshi. Yeah, everything's one. Even intellect is the emanation of God's one. That's right. Who could ask the question if it wasn't from the intellect? Yeah, that's a good question from Johannes. How to go from understanding to pure experience of truth? Recognition is the answer. Experiencing right now. Yeah. What are you experiencing right now? Not what you're conceptualising as experience. Not being the experiencer or the experience.

Yeah. Just be the experiencing right now. And you haven't had anything to do with it. But you know what it is. Look out the window and I'm not saying there's a tree out there, but I'm experiencing it. Yeah. And the space that it's contained in and then the flat behind it. Yeah. It's all there. But every time I turn my head away and look again I see it, but I'm not saying, oh it's a tree, it's a place, it's a thing. It's just pure experiencing. Yeah. Without putting any labels or forms on it. You know what it is. Yeah. A innate intelligence. That's a good way to point it, you know.

How to go from understanding to experiencing. Stop conceptualising. That's what he just described. Look out without naming, claiming and labelling. Without conceptualising. Look around the room you're sitting in now. See all the things there. Without putting any label on anything. And realise you know what it is. As I'm talking and listening to myself talk, I'm seeing the mirror, the pictures on the wall, the walls over, and all those things. And I didn't have to put a label on them to know what they were. Yes. Recognition. The truth is already present. So it just needs to be recognised and acknowledged in a way. And what's always being experienced?

The being. Well being is the same as experiencing. Same as the seeing. Same as the thinking. Being is the functioning. Seeing is the functioning. I see is the conceptualising. I think, I feel. That's relating to the conceptual entity. The person. Ah, yeah. This one we have. I'm going to check the previous ones. Yes, so that question that Johannes asked, how to go from understanding to pure experiencing of truth. Shishagari answered by living spontaneously using only intuitive capabilities. And Amarnath searched for future joy and search for the true joy. And he found that the safety itself is an obstruction to realisation. Nisargadatta Maharaj. We are already safe and joyful.

Thought and effort are lost in a choiceless ease and spontaneous joy. That's Bob Aronson. Yeah, I think we are current. Because I remember reading that one. Another part of refreshing comments. Yes, this is from Rohan. Hi Bob, you mentioned a couple of times about the feeling of psychological suffering. I've noticed that when feelings like this arise here, then there is nothing now that causes it. It is always in relation to something in the past or a projected future that keeps the feeling going. That's right. That's a beautiful insight. That's a very, very beautiful liberated insight. Yeah, it's nothing in the moment that can cause. It's always the context.

Like, oh, I'm getting worse and I'm not getting better or something I like is not here or something I don't like is coming or I can lose something. Yeah, it's always something, some story. And Nicholas says, what's wrong with right now unless you think about it. Yes, and Amarnath, how beautiful is this appearance. Bob and Kat are just sitting. All questions are coming and answers also spontaneously. Nothing is happening, yet everything is happening. And a lot of beautiful icons of hearts and everything. Thank you. Yeah, the dance, spontaneous, natural dance of life. And what appears to be real is there if there is nothing, so the appearance of what?

What appears to be real if there is nothing, so the appearance of what? Yeah, if there is nothing, then the appearance of that nothing appearing as everything. Like, look around. That's what it is. It is all nothing and yet you see it, you hear it, you taste it, you experience it. It is experienced. It stands in front of your eyes. As real as it can ever be. And yet it is nothing. If there is phenomena of that which appears to be. Sensations appear to be. Thoughts, the feelings and everything. How amazing. How amazing. It's really incredible. You have all these, you have all these sensations in the dream.

When you wake up, what happened to them? Where were they? Just like the sleepwalking I talk about. Have a look if we have some of this last week's comments. Oh yeah. I remember we read this one. We read this one also. Oh yes, and I just came, but we've addressed that already. From the last week's Johannes comment that Hartz Sutra said that form is emptiness and emptiness is form. And Amarna says, thanks Kat for your algorithm. I becoming you and he or it. Beautiful. And thanks for the beautiful clarity. I am becoming. Husband, teacher, friend, brother, multiple ego, similar to a dream. Ever grateful to you.

Thank you. Yeah, I find it handy rather than conceptualizing one. You recognize it as nothing. Or you include everything else. That will completely dissipate it. Just completely dissipate the boundaries of the ego. Narrating algorithm without narrator. Kat. Yeah, that's what it is. It's a program. It's a software. It's an algorithm. It can even be disconnected in the brain by certain chemicals. Like I never tried them, but I heard about ketamines or something they used in psychiatry. And also by infrasounds. There are experiments being conducted on the brain by certain helmets that are transmitting frequency, which will disturb that particular algorithm of narrating. And everything else goes on.

It's just the narrative that is being silenced. There was a book author who was sharing that this was the most blissful state of peace when she was experimenting with the equipment in which the creativity was unobscured. And it was the most blissful state of peace when she was experimenting with the equipment in which the creativity was unobscured. She was bringing out beautifully, but there was no personalized agenda or narrative relating anything to the fictitious self, because. the algorithm of creating that self. Imagining. Hallucinating that self, was disrupted. And Ben, the last hurray for the mind. Looking for an unfindable distinction between nothing and something. Beautiful.

yeah ben last from the mind looking for unfindable distinction between nothing and something that is so beautiful ben that is so brilliant yeah that's what the mind does looking for unfindable distinction between nothing and something trying to do the not make it nothing to the thing yeah beautiful and thanks bob for your blessings stay awakened no more sleep or dreaming and a lot of hearts again from amarna thank you yes don't you fall asleep to think of something we need to limit it oh i think it was a discussion that was um yeah char was saying what we are cannot be spoken or thought of or expressed we are unlimited what i mean was to think of something you need it to have boundaries or ages or ends to measure it or contain it but as we are unlimited we cannot think of it like we think of one meter or three meters or hundred meters but endless we cannot think of that's right that's when the mind collapses when you use words like unlimited infinite timeless spaceless this is those are things that we cannot think of don't have mental representations they are they can't be imagined so oops again again keep knocking it on keep knocking it yeah just sit on the other side of you that would be get along the cord uh no there is no longer cord that's as long as they do them they don't do them longer you must get there must be a joiner you can join yeah we'll figure it out okay okay what appears to be real if there is nothing so the appearance of what i've been there and billy osho said mind is the problem when there is no mind then there is peace so how then can there be a peace of mind yeah yeah that's right there is no peace of mind bob often says There is no such thing as peace of mind.

The peace is when the mind is not. And that's why we call it, I think that's what Jesus was saying, that's why we call it peace that passeth all understanding. Yeah. No mind is the peace. Mind is destruction. Mind is vibration. Mind is noise. Mind is narrative. Sound. Construction. Constructing images. Constructing sounds, words. All of it is mind. Peace is when the mind is not. Yeah, that was a nice quote from Osho. Let's see if there is any more. Alvaro says, thanks so much. Wonderful pointers. Right here, right now. Lots of love. And Mukti says, I've got a longer cord. You can have cut. Oh, wonderful.

Let's see if it will have the right connections because we have a weird Android. Yeah, let's show us. Thank you. Thank you. Let's figure it out. That would be great. Although, yeah. Yeah, she could put a piece in there. Yeah, I know. That is already an extension, this one. But you could probably get another cord with two ends on it. Yeah, if Mukti has one, we can figure it out. That would be great. Amarnath, peace is background or paper thought. Mind is script. Mind is script. Mind is script. Mind is script. We often mean peace. We often mean peace. We often mean peace. Peace is the background.

That's from Ramana Maharshi. Yeah, there are a lot of analogies to the background. The background of the screen and the printing on the screen. The background of the white page and whatever's in the page. The TV, when the TV is off and you switch it on and the picture comes about. Or the screen for the projector, like in the cinema. Yeah, who cares about the screen? Who cares about the screen? When the distraction, the noise is so attractive. The drama is so attractive. Who even cares about seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, when the thought can give you it in one image altogether. So that's why we habitually fall into that addiction to the imagination, to the narrative.

And that's again from last week. When Cha was saying that we are unlimited and unlimited or endless cannot be pictured in the mind. To think of something, we need to limit it. Yeah, that's a good observation. Yeah, you can't think of anything that is unlimited. Thinker is an illusion because of non-investigation. Sailor Bob, that's Amarnath quoting you. Yeah, thinker is an illusion because of non-investigation. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Only thinking. Only thinking, yes. And thinking itself is a spontaneous happening. That's right. There's no thinker thinking. Hmm. Not refreshing. If we have any more here. We've been there. Yeah. I think I didn't miss out on anything from last week.

Good. Hmm. See if we have anything. Mukti, Bob, how did you get it with Nisargadatta? Not through what he said and yet through what you said. I think it was through the words you heard. Truth experiencing the truth? Yeah. The resonation was there. Yeah. Whatever resonation was in his words and coming through him and expressing through him all the time. Well, over the years, that much had happened here to be able to recognize it when it was going on. Where I hadn't, I'd heard the words from others. Yeah. But the resonance wasn't the same. Hmm. But the words were the same. Yeah. But the words were the same.

Yeah. But the words were the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the natural spontaneous resonation with it. Though it all, as I say, all the chatter and things didn't die down straight away. But once you've seen something, you can never go back and believe in it. Just what you had thought of battle was for was real. That's why the false can't stand up to the investigation. But I do love the way Mukti worded it. That's brilliant. That's the distinction. through what was said but through what was heard through what you actually heard because Bob was saying many times that Muktananda he was saying the same thing I mean a lot of them like wherever you look they tell you you're not the body you're not the mind and somehow there was no it wasn't heard and with that transmission from Nisargadatta the ripeness of the fruit that frequency underlying all of it the whole universe the suffering that caused Bob to go there all of it contributed if not for the if not for the this moment well we could use time but this moment of the opening of the mind has been a result of the collaboration of the whole universe yes if people can just grasp that what they're going through now instead of you know, compounding it by labelling it and trying to get it out and blaming this and blabbing that just realize this you know who's it happening to where and awake to it or recognize or whatever and see where it takes you yeah because it keeps pulling you there in spite of myself you know it kept pulling me towards the stuff and I didn't believe in any of it or didn't want to believe in any of it either when I was younger but it forced me yeah that's like Thomas the Campion so I think there's a Catholic priest or a monk or something or other years and years ago and he said I can't think of it at the moment I'll think of it in a minute hmm yeah but it takes you where it takes you yeah it's regardless I mean people have been beautiful stories of synchronicities, how they were resisting a situation.

Even the story how you didn't want to go to Nisargadatta because he was with Muktananda, so he was loyal to the guru, staying in the ashram. People were inviting him to go, and he said, No, no, I'm not there, I'm not looking for it. I have my guru here. And then people were offering the book, and no, I'm not going to read I Am That, no. And then the time came when, Bob, you went to the library that you were always going. The bookshop, yeah. The bookshop, oh, the bookshop, yeah, not the library, bookshop. And he was always picking out the book and then opening, if it grabs him, good, if it doesn't.

And then the librarian came and, No, don't go there, you have this, this book again. He didn't say, don't go there. I was walking out with nothing. With nothing, ah, you were walking with nothing. I had a look at a few and didn't, nothing I liked. So I was walking out and he said, Hang on, this is the book you should read. This is for you, yeah. I thought, well, this is too much of a coincidence. Instead of resisting at this time, I'd heard of, you know, been told many times and wasted a few months because in that time, what's your name? Maurice Friedman. Maurice Friedman had died.

He was taken. That's how people were going to the Sargodata. They'd meet up with Maurice Friedman and he would take them to the Sargodata. Yeah. Yeah. So I never got, I never meant to meet Maurice Friedman or be taken to him. Yeah. Because he died a week before I was in that box shop. Mm. And, ah. But then you brought many people to New Sargodata after that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was the first one to, Westerners to go to him after Maurice had died. Yeah. Then we'd, then I took Mark West from the ashram with me to see him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any Westerners walking round bomb, bomb bay. Yeah. They'd be looking into Osho was there and a few others, you know. We'd talk to these seekers and say, you want to come to New Sargodata? Mm. And some would, some wouldn't. Yeah. And then he used to wave his finger at me and say, you're the cause of all these people coming. But it wasn't until later found their way to him. Yeah. Yeah, that's how life actually really moves you. It does, it drives you. It drives you. it leaves you, you are being moved so you don't really have to do anything just relax and see how it unfolds see how it happens see how it resonates how it shines through no matter what you do how you resist it if it's meant to be, it's meant to be and that sounds a little bit woo-hoo-y sort of magical thinking but it's a helpful pointer too like there were people in Ashram that Bob did invite to see Nisargadatta and they refused it and they are pretending to be teachers now ravishing him in courts but that happened and it was meant for them and it is it is what it is we have another pointer here Amarna says beautiful story you are resonating our similar resistance of mind in the beginning now becoming as is later drawn to the fire still not burned Johannes beautiful and Mukti says whilst the chatter didn't die down how did you handle that?

well once you see the false is false you can never truly believe it again so when it had come up the and there'd been going on before it went too far the thought had come up hang on you've seen through this before is it true or is it false have another look and so you'd go back and have another look and I say being false it can't stand up then to investigate and the more it was recognized as false the less and less you could believe it just the same as the ocean you know the first time you see it the first time your see the water not blue everytime you go back You'll see it's still beautiful blue, but less and less belief you'll have in the blueness of it.

You'll know the truth about it even though it's appearing as blue. And even though the thoughts and feelings still go on, they can't get you. That's right. And Tanya says, me, mine, myself and I are false. They are just words pointing, not pointing to anything. That's right. They're words pointing to just an illusion, completely illusory, non-existent thing. Amarnav, it is not happening now too between Kat, Bob and us. Play of grace. And a lot of beautiful hearts. Thank you. Yeah. As you can see, as I say, people listening out there are putting in good... Good spin on it. Good spills, yeah. Good talks on it.

Good understanding pieces, recognising it. It really shows how... Yeah. ...so many people are listening out there. And how simple it is and how available it is. And how it is not for the few chosen. It is really on the bottom of the heart, underlying the algorithm of narrating and taking credit. It is there, fully blossomed, fully shining. Yeah. It shines through so many. Thank you. Thank you for shining that light back and showing it really to the broader audience that it... It is for anyone to discover. It's not really something... That Thomas the chemist was. Oh, yes. Yeah. No greater proof of the power of your love have you shown me than this.

That when I had no being, you brought me into existence. And when I went straying afar from you, you brought me back to your service and taught me to love you. Oh, how beautiful. You've got to write it down. I'll tell it to Bruce. It is beautiful. That's beautiful. Mmm. God, don't know how to formulate it. It seems there is an expansion versus a focusing on something. The mind is focusing on objects. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, the mind focuses on objects. That's its nature. Un-fix-ite. Yeah. Yeah. Un-fix-iting awareness. Or include more objects. Like... Like if you focus on five different sounds, that fixation is kind of loosened up.

And then if you hear, let's say, the traffic, the birds, the talking, the breathing, the walking, the noises from the kitchen, a few different sounds and the focus is kind of dispersed between them and include maybe feeling of the body or a few sights or pick a few colours or shapes, then that awareness is unfixated. Even though there are still objects, the sounds are objects in hearing, the sights are objects in seeing, the sensations are objects in the sensing, but still, when there is more of them, the computing capacity is being overwhelmed. And when that computing capacity is used, the selfing doesn't happen because it doesn't have processing availability.

There is no more speed for processing or available structures. There is no more stream to do it. So it's not creating a self, it is just pure experiencing. Even though it's focusing on objects, it's not a problem if there is no ownership or the thinker that takes ownership of the focusing on objects. Mind does its thing. It interprets signals, sensations, impressions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. are about about the time let's thank you Bob and Kat and all okay Kat please share that with me too yeah sure tell me what I'll share it that was Mukti anything I'll share anything yes that was just a thank you messages thanks Bob for this false is false world mind appearance from Amarna and wonderful as always thank you Bob and Kat from Rohan and yes it's a time thank you everyone yes thank you everyone love you all love you all keep shining that light that understanding beautiful