Sailor Bob, Kat - nonduality 22/11/2020

Good morning everyone. Good morning. Everybody is okay I hope. Hope and fear, two of our greatest problems. Hope implies we're concerned about something in the future, and there is no future. And fear is a concern that we need to get something, we are not complete already. Two words implying implications of something, put some meaning on them or discrimination on them, and the word is not the thing. And we've learnt words. Put meaning in the words and discriminate with the words. And in the discrimination we seemingly move away from the absolute, the non-dual, one without a second, every fresh, ever fresh presence and awareness. Just this, nothing else.

I say we, which is just another word. But I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. To that sense of presence that expresses or translates through the mind, which is the mind. As the thought I am. More words. But that thought is not the reality. What does I am mean? It means that sense of presence. But we don't leave it at that. We've put other labels on it. I am Bob. I am so and so. I am this. I am that. I am something else. I can't teach you anything. Can't tell you anything.

I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where I'm pointing to. To see for myself. See for yourself. If there is a you that can see. It's all that needs to happen. And all the traditions will tell you there's only one God, if you like to use that term. There's one pure intelligence energy. I use that term. But what a better expression. It's functioning, shaping, patterning, forming as all this manifestation. And everything in it. Everything in it. And when you look at it from that point of view, you and I are things. The trees are things. The flowers are things. Everything that appears are only things.

And what are they appearing on? Or in? Or whatever you like to call it. Isn't it that basic screen which we call space or essence or awareness or godliness, if you like to call it that? All different terms for the same thing. They call it that in, some of the great traditions will say it's that shit and and, a nama rupa. Five factors. The sat is existence. The chitta is the consciousness. The nanda is loving to be. And the nama rupa, the name and the form are the illusionary pattern through which it's expressed. So have a look at that. Anyone who is there right now and listening or hearing this, don't you realise that that is existence?

You are existing. And you say, yes, I am. And you say, yes, I am existing. And are you conscious or unaware? You're not unaware, so you must be conscious or aware. So you are that awareness. And nobody wants to be dead right now, do they? They wouldn't be listening to this or looking for anything or investigating it. If you wanted to be out of it, you don't want to. We love to be. So that's your satya and nanda. Being, knowing, loving to be. And the nama rupa, the name and the form are the conceptual images we put on it. Now the basis screen, as I say, that presence awareness or absolute, which they're appearing on, it's like space.

And again, they'll point out in the scriptures, it's space like awareness. It's like some like of space. What can you say about space? It doesn't change. It hasn't got any center to it. Try and find the end of space, a circumference to it or an end to it. You can't. And does it have a beginning? Is it time bound? And you can't say it is. There's nothing you can say about it except you can't negate it. Now, innate intelligence energy that's expressed through that pattern can't say, I am not. So you must be. That's not the way to put it. Being is existence. Knowing is the intelligence or the awareness of it.

And loving to be. And see if you can separate any of those things. You believe in a god, if you believe in a god, the god is the supreme being, the greatest being, the only being. But you call god that supreme being. You call yourself a human being. See what we've done? We've divided it with the words. But take the label supreme off. And take the label human off. And see if you can separate or get away from the beingness. Aren't you being right here, right now? Not, and the being is you're not were, you're not wasing, or you're not will be. Being, the ing in it, like all the other things with ing in it, is something that's, that's something that's happening right in its immediacy.

You are seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, feeling, laughing, crying, arguing, fighting. All the ing on it is the activity of going on in the moment. But we're not satisfied with it. We put onto it, I see. Thinking is happening. Well, if you see it in the moment. You see, what's your next thought going to be? If you think, believe you are the thinking. You are the thinking. The thinking's happening, but there's not the conceptual image you put on it. You, there's thinking. Thinking is happening. Because when you bring that you in it, you say, I think. That sense of presence translates to the thought, I am, now thinks.

It's the thinker. Thinking, a thought. So the thinker, the thought, I think, becomes the subject. I am the subject. And the thought, whatever I'm thinking, has become the object. So see what's happened. I've split the thinking into the thinker and the thought. But look at that. Can there be a thinker without thinking? No thought going on. Is there a thinker? And until you think that there's a thinker, there is no thinker. So the thinker and the thought are dualistic. The seer and the seen are dualistic. The thinker, the taster and the toucher, the tasters are dualistic. All of the one stick, what I call the one stick, one stick has got two ends to it.

There's no one-ended stick. So are the thoughts, feelings, emotions and all the thinking. There's the one vibration of energy which divides up the subject-object, thinker and thought, feeler and felt. The absolute seemingly divides itself and separates, seemingly separates itself with the word and realises it's only the word doing it. Only the word doing it. So are you the word? You know you're not the word. You know without the word you are still breathing, there's still breathing, heart's still beating, hair and fingernails grow, food's being digested. The functioning is going on. Or it's divided into the functioner and the functioned. It's pure functioning. Just the same as out there in nature.

The functioning is happening in nature. The earth is rolling around the sun. Seasons are coming and going. Tides are coming in and out. Stars are forming and imploding, exploding. Constantly all things are coming and going. It's all things and all the things are transient. There's nothing static out there. They're constantly changing. And that might be hard to see and realise. That body you walked in and turned on the Skype with this morning is changing. It's not the same body. And it's, whatever it's hearing now it might be listening to this, it might be partially listening. It might be having all sorts of mental concepts. It might be full of shit and shut up and doesn't.

Well, that's the way the functioning is going on. But who's doing it? Realise from that that every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been picked up along the way. It's been learnt, acquired. How many thoughts were you born with? When you came into existence with it, did you have any thoughts? You realised you didn't. Yet you were seeing, you were hearing. And the capacity of reasoning wasn't there. The spontaneous knowing was there in the being and the seeing. But you had no words to describe it. And while you were forming in the womb, you had no words. Yet that body which you are today was forming from the sperm and the ovum.

The intelligence energy that was in the food and the breath that your parents took. The prana and the life essence that came into them through their parents. And what must you be? You must be. It's that life essence that you really are. Life itself. Not the person. Not the body. Not the mind. Not the separate entity or individual that's unhappy, that's fearful, that's anxious, depressed, guilty. See, all those concepts, we put onto words, we're trying to describe the indescribable. The one essence can never be described. It's indivisible. You can't divide it. It's not separate. One can never be two. One can never be the other.

It's still the same stick, whether it's a thin end, or a thick end, a rough end, or a smooth end. It's still the same stick. It's still the same essence. It's still the absolute, or the great perfection. The great perfection, they tell us, is non-conceptual awareness. Give it in one sentence. Tell us these things, what's necessary. It's necessary to have a look, see if they resonate, see if they gel, see if what these concepts are real, because they tell you also that the false cannot stand up to the investigation. Investigate these things. And if it's false, it'll fall apart. And you see that in so many things that happen in your life.

Is the Earth flat? No. How do you know? When people told you years ago, or people believed it was years ago, that it was flat. And when you look out and, if you're on the shore, and you look out to where the sea and the sky met, mate, it looks like the edge of the Earth. It looks like it's flat. And where the sea and the sky met, that's the end of the Earth. So you believed it was flat until it's investigated. When you investigate it, you see it's not flat at all. The water in the mirage. You see water driving down the road, you see what appears to be water in the road.

It's the sun shining off the bitumen, or reflecting or radiating off it, or sending up rays, or seeming energy, moving, vibrations. When you drive up to it, there's no water there. The blue sea. The blue sky. Many analogies you can look into and see that they're not real. The snake and the rope. Many ways they point out. Have a look at these things and see if what they're saying, they're true. This body-mind. Seems to be real, doesn't it? But are you the body? Innately you know you're not the body. What do you say? My body for, if you will. Don't you say my car, my house, my shirt, my hat.

Innately you know you're not the car, the coat, the shirt, that. Maybe you're not the body either when you say my body. Investigate it. Where's the clock? Have a look at that and in an investigation see what's the body made up of? You'll see that the body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. They tell us that. People that have looked into it, investigated it, tell us that. Science, physicists, whatever they are. And what are those elements? The elements can, they can all be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy. And the body, the body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy.

Seemingly solid, seemingly substantial through the vibration. And the body, the vibration. And its vibration can appear to be very solid. Have a look at a propeller on an aeroplane. It's just one single thing. Starts spinning and spins so fast it looks like a solid circle. Put your finger in and see how solid it is. Dumb. Investigate it, see. But it appears to be real, doesn't it? It appears. This is a H2O. It's a thing we call water. Two gases. Get it cold enough and it feels... Stand on it. It's seemingly solid. Ice. It wouldn't stand there too long until it melts. Fall apart underneath you.

So these things need to be investigated and looked at and seen for yourself. And what happens when you do investigate them? And see that what we've taken to be real is not the real. The definition of reality is that which never changes. But these things are constantly changing. So they can't be the real. They can't be the actual. And we believe them to be real. And have a look at this body that you're calling my body. It's transient, as I say, and there are thousands of cells dying in it right at this moment. And being replaced. So you can't say the body is real. All right.

Well, what about this thing we call mind? This amazing thing we call mind. And you say, my mind. My mind. It's not the mind. You don't say the mind or I mind. You say my. This conceptual image, this persona, this masked entity, me, Bob, is claiming the mind is my own. It isn't my mind. Or is this mind that's forming and expressing through the pattern as me? I realize there is no such thing as mind apart from thought. And if I'm a thought, which particular thought would I be? What's the primary thought? The sense of presence, which translates through the mind as the thought I.

I am. Am is part of the verb to be. I am the being. I. Not good enough. No. Not good enough. And for the conceptual mask, my own Bob, the Australian, who is a good fellow or he's not so good or he's fearful, he's anxious, he's unhappy, he's depressed. All these concepts are added on to this conceptual image and formed a conceptual image, an image made up of concepts. So when somebody like the Saga Dada tells you nothing can trouble you accepting your own imagination and if you resonate with what he's saying and know he's something there's something he's got that you would like to have or understand then you're going to have a look and see what this imagination is if nothing can stand up to it we'll break it down to imagine image in break that down to image in and realize we were creating mental images conceptual images thoughts or fit in the mind this thing we call mind thoughts concepts vibration in images where it goes what was formed thought okay what's the concept a mental construct and what's a mental construct a thought a thought a concept a mental construct and what's a mental construct a thought and what is thought sound a word so the words we use are the sounds thoughts vibrations it's a vibration a movement of energy and all these concepts are just vibrating movements of energy like the body like everything else in this manifestation all vibrating patterns of energy now what can you do with energy can you do anything with it if it's the energy that's embodying you and likely it's the energy that will do it for you and then he gets doing it as all energy is a movement and activity and that's how thoughts feelings and emotions coming from the subtlety of thought then it becomes a sensation or a feeling then it becomes the emotion so it's the thought the thought has now changed so seemingly changed just like it's functioning in the manifestation in the scene first of all of these water which will evaporate or by the heat will evaporate and become steam the steam or condensed back into to where it's state where it becomes seemingly it like a fog or steam and a cloud will form clouds which obscure the Sun.

It is the Sun obscured, seemingly obscured by clouds from our point of view, but the vastness of the Sun is so great it can never be obscured just like this light, it's the life we are. It can never be obscured, but there's parts of it will seemingly be obscured. And we ask, go outside and would you say the Sun is not in the sky because it's obscured? No, you've investigated and know the Sun doesn't leave the sky. So what forms the cloud that is obscuring it? Investigate a little bit further and you realize that the Sun itself forms a cloud. Now that's life essence, that you believe yourself is forming these thoughts, feelings and emotions that you've taken to be different and separate and apart from.

The Sun itself forms the cloud, all the Sun does is shine and the radiation, the heat or the warmth or the energy that is coming from it is the sun. It evaporates the water, the oceans, it evaporates and dries them up in a lot of cases and forms clouds. Now what's the Sun do? The Sun doesn't do anything about the cloud, it continues to radiate, it doesn't know anything about it and then that continued radiation it'll cool it down again. After it's heated, the cloud will rise up into the higher atmosphere where it's cooler. It'll cool it down and that steam will condense into a cloud.

Then it keeps a bit further, it'll come down as rain and when it comes down as rain, the rain can cool and form as ice or snow and can become seemingly solid. So from a subtle substance like heat, cloud, steam, ice, it becomes solid just like the thoughts from a subtle substance will become words, sounds or seemingly something solid, feelings or emotion. So it's never changing. It changes to a nature. We imagine all these things. This is what's troubling ourselves. Imagination, imaging in. Imagination makes image in. Those conceptual images that are going on are seemingly solid. Well I've rambled on enough, we can go on a bit further but I don't have to because there are people there that have points of view to put over.

Or questions. People that resonate with it and start to understand it. It's a pretty clear group here. They've got a pretty good grasp of things. So get into it. Kat's there to say something. She'll tell you something about it. There are others there. Hello everyone. I just have a couple of nice questions and comments that we can read out loud and one I think Bob you can comment on. Amarnath. Yes? Yes. Dear Bob, when thinking and thinker are not needed, absent, why it's happening in actuality is illusion. Why it's happening is illusion? Well the whole manifestation is illusion. It's a phenomenal manifestation. It just appears that way.

And what can you say about the appearance unless we put labels and words on it? Through the thinking. If we haven't learnt words, what can you say in it? What would it be? It would be the absolute. How can it be discriminated without the word? Yeah if you don't have thinking and thinker when thinking and thinker are not needed, why is it still illusion? Or what is happening is illusion? Well I would say that without thinker and thinking, you actually can't say what it is. You can't say it's illusion or it's reality, you can't. That's true. without thinker and thinking there's no thoughts to describe it so there's no issue of even wondering what it is, why it is, how it is, it's just absence of...

Isn't that the absolute without the word? Yeah, yeah. What can you say about the absolute? Nothing. That's right. But it's a good description of the no thing that is happening. Yes. So we have another I've seen from Amarna. World is only thoughts, no thoughts, no world. Sri Ramana. Yeah, that's the answer to the previous one too. Deep sleep like state that is complete absence of world thoughts present in waking state. Your experience please. What? Deep sleep is? Deep sleep. Deep sleep like state that is complete absence of thoughts, world, present in waking state. Your experience please. If present in waking state? Yes. Well, have a look at it right now.

Pause the thought for an instant if you can. Look beyond the thought which wasn't there. Have no thought there. What's going, what's there in the absence of the thought? It's a natural spontaneous breathing which you can't say it is. Seeing, hearing, tasting, the functioning is going on without any labels on. It's just the same as deep sleep. Because in deep sleep what disappears? The word, the thought. But the breathing doesn't stop, the heart doesn't stop. So without the word out there in nature right now, now nature is not saying this is a tree, this is a flower. What's happening? All this is a, all these things.

Yeah. All these things are appearing on the no thing, but can something come from no thing? It can't. So they're really only the no thing. And the only thing that can discriminate them is this seeming separate entity, this persona that's looking at these things and taking, knowing full well that they are appearing on that space like awareness on the no thing, but taking them to be something through the word with that. Yeah, there is a subtle assumption and I think there is also an expectation sometimes amongst people, and I don't say it is you, but I know that it happens to people. The idea that deep sleep like state in a waking dream, that a sudden disappearance of the world.

Well, you surely understand that if the world didn't exist to Bob, you wouldn't exist, your questions wouldn't exist, you wouldn't get an answer. So even though there is a certain... Yeah. Even though there is no thinking and there is no taking credit for anything, the dream goes on. The awakening is awakening to the dream. So the dream goes on, the body functions, the world appears. There is no overlay of interpretation like a dream in the dream in which everything is personalized and made sense or meaning, given meaning. Like if you think of the way the cat is perceiving the world, they have no thoughts. As far as we know, they don't have thoughts.

As far as we know, they don't have the selfing network in the brain. And they still don't bump into the walls. They still perceive the food. They still experience the body. So they are awakened to a dream. The state of disappearance, complete disappearance is like the Samadhi-like sort of a state where there is no world. You obviously don't communicate because there is nothing to communicate to. And those moments are, of course, they... They are part of the waking dream. Well, the target has pointed out quite realistically when he says, we try to grasp it with a concept and we fail. We are bound to fail, he says, because it's non-conceptual awareness.

That's what we do. Is it like deep sleep? Is it like this? Is it like that? What are we doing? Aren't we trying to grasp it with a concept, trying to get some answer? But it's non-conceptual awareness. That's right. You know, while you're trying to grasp it with a concept, were you out of awareness? Were you away from life? You weren't. The life had to be there and the awareness had to be there because a thought or a feeling or an activity couldn't be there without it. But we're trying to grasp it with some concept, a thought up idea or an image. This will be it.

I get this thought, I'll be it and I'll be free. But the answer is not in the mind. Never can be or never ever will be. Yeah, beautiful. Underlying the dream that is still going on without the thinking is the emptiness in which it appears. The awareness of that emptiness is that primordial natural state. On that, the dream appears. On that, the interpretation of the dream appears. And on that, the liking or disliking and personalizing of interpretation appears. It's really just a recognition. It's a realization. It's recognizing the base. And then enjoy the dream. And that's what you're saying, awareness of that emptiness. That's what again, you look at Chatchitananda, awareness of being is bliss.

Bliss means there's not some static state or anything. It means there's just nothing. You can't say it's good or bad or anything. It's all about it. Yes. Yes, absence of the world present in waking state. Your experience, please. So absence of the world in a waking state is the understanding. It is you understand that the world is not as it appears. That the reality is that which never changes. So it's not that suddenly eyes go blind and you get deaf. The moments like this are also there. They're absolutely there. Moments of insights when the world collapses. But they're not the goal. And they're not to be cling to or the little experiences.

Whatever one life wants to experience and expressing this moment is perfect as it is. So if you see the world, that's perfect. If the world collapses, that's perfect. Whatever is today is the answer. I think there was more of Armanath. Yes. Yes. Yes. In attention of self and excessive imagination is world. That's from Nisargadatta Maharaj. What? In attention of self and excessive imagination is the world. Yeah. In attention to yourself. Yes. The reality. And now Ramana Maharishi. This is from Rohan. By constantly keeping a vigil on the mind's actual nature and not letting it forget. I'm going to read this. and transform continuously one click quickly finds there is nothing called mind this is the straight path hmm video on the minds actual nature and not letting it forget and transform consciously yeah so I think it is really a pointer to look beyond the change to the changeless yeah then yes then the attention is where it's where the answer is and it's beyond the mind it's not in the mind mmm prior to mine for the mind that's beyond the mind thoughts images and concepts appear fully formed instantly about everything as if they are truth seeing that is amazing and it is freedom that's Debbie beautiful yeah yeah how amazing it is it's incredible it's not something to try to push away this is something to marvel at is literally something I know the truth and the truth will set you free that's so true our manaps what needs time to realize is false all false concepts needs time to realize you Nisargadatta, what is here and now is self, non-conceptual awareness.

Bob Adamson. Yeah, I guess those are just two quotes. The first one comes from Nisargadatta, that everything that is false needs time to realize. And your reminder that what is here and now is self, non-conceptual awareness. Imagination is images in. Armanach says, lovely, Bob. Yes, imaging in. Bill, thinking or no thinking, the dance continues. Exactly. Who cares? So there's dancing. Yes. G.K. Hi, can you say more about... I am. Presence talking to I am presence. Presence talking to the presence. Yes, well that's what's happening, isn't it? Mm, yeah. There was no... If there was no presence there, who could I talk to? If this presence wasn't talking, who would have talked to itself?

Even if it's talking to itself, there's still presence. If it's talking to anybody, it's utter appearance, that's still presence. So it's always happening presently. In the presence as presence. Yes. Only presence awareness. Yes, and they sometimes call it self to self talk. Or Bob, you start a spiel sometimes saying that I'm not talking to any body or any mind. Mm. I'm talking to that I am that I am. That is it. Because the I am is so intimate and so subjective, even though it's not personal. Bob's on fire, Rohan says. We like that, don't we? Yeah. But Rohan says you're on fire. Yeah. How do we know everything doesn't disappear when in deep sleep or Samadhi?

How do we know that there is anyone else out there at all? Do we create the whole dream including others? That's Michael. Great question. How do you know that? Yeah, how do you know that everything doesn't disappear when you fall asleep? How do you know that there are any others unless you perceive them? Could that be that we create the whole dream including others? Well, that's the same as the dream, isn't it? How do you know? While you're in the dream, do you know that there's a so-called real world out here? No. No. You don't. But has it disappeared? No. But with the dream it does.

Well, the dream disappears, but you're awakened to this little dream which is living. Yes. Is that going to disappear? I bet you. When the body dies, the whole world that the body brought in, the mind created? Well, it won't be able to express through this pattern. None of it will disappear. In your dream, the dream dream, you can be on the ocean or in the seas or in the air or on a mountain or in the city. When you wake up, that city was real. The mountains you were walking around in in the dream disappears. The mountains you were climbing in disappear. They all disappear.

But you wake up to this dream, don't realise that this is still a dream because this dream has a continuity that makes it seemingly more real than the other. It continues when we wake up from the dream dream into the waking dream, the dream continues. But the dream dream has disappeared for good. Exactly. Even that dream, even that waking dream right now, it disappears when you fall asleep. I fall asleep and very often Bob's not there. I'm driving ships because I've been doing it for most of my life. So that so-called waking dream is gone. But it is a good question when you realise that there is no simple answer to it because the answer, the actual answer, and this is also an answer that you're going to get in science, is I don't know, can't say.

Can't say. Without the observer there is anything going on. It can't be said. But there again, what does that fall back to? Absoluteness. Absolutely. But there again, you don't even need that word on, do you? No. And now we got Sally commenting on Ramana Maharshi saying that by constantly keeping vigil of the mind. What does this mean? What does this mean by the mind's actual nature? Sally was asking. There was this quote from Ramana Maharshi to keep the attention on the actual nature beyond the changing things. So the actual nature of everything is emptiness, is unchanging. And the illusory nature is vibration. So thinking is actually the vibration going in the mind.

Imaging, making images, drama, stories. But the actual nature of everything is just an empty space. So keep the attention on that actual, actual nature, empty space. Seeing no thing. Amarnath says, thanks Kat for appearance in disappearance. Waking state, yet beyond words and concepts. Yes, we all love those little moments of disappearances. They're called insights and sometimes they're just moments in which the world collapses. But you know, they're there when they're there. And chasing behind them or trying to keep them there. And that's what I'm trying to say. That's what I'm trying to say. And chasing behind them is basically just coming back to the desire.

The re-establishing the separate entity that wants something else than what is. That's a trap. But, yeah, they actually, they highly appreciate it. They're sweet. They're kisses. Julia, know the truth and the truth will set you free. But first it may piss you off. The what? Know the truth and the truth will set you free. the truth and the truth will set you free but first it may piss you off well the question is who is gonna get pissed off well look yeah that's good yes you're good if you could piss off the you gotta say that it doesn't exist that's all it's a fiction knowing the truth but it's cute and sweet and funny and Sandeep how can we apply this understanding of non-dualism into practical dealing with difficult relationships at work with bosses or even in a marriage it's a good question you can't you can't do it at all but get yourself out of the road and then you're not relating to this limited itself then that might be a different different story altogether yeah it's really an understanding it's not a tool that someone learn anything applies to anything because what you learn actually is that everything happens automatically the patterns the reactions in you are completely conditioned and also in the other side so you basically waking up from the dance into being an awareness of it it takes the heaviness out of it so if there is a pattern of quarrel or competition or fight between you and the boss or you and a wife that pattern might still be going on just like you have two dogs on the street that don't like each other they don't have any concepts and they have full non-dual realization of no self they didn't even have to have the realization because they never fall for the dream of having yourself and the dynamic still goes on but it becomes impersonal it becomes lighter it becomes laughable it doesn't cause emotional psychological suffering as much so it is understanding understanding it's not an application because to apply there would have to be you who is applying things to the you and to the others and we say there is no you and others so it's all it's all basically problems of relationship relative too well relative if there's no relationship with one who can be you know what do you want of the other persons yeah who would be superior to you who would be inferior to you what would you want if it's a singularity and then there's no problem it's only when we divide it conceptually it becomes a problem two becomes a problem one can never be the problem not even one yeah so basically just getting yourself out of the way if the if even if the fight happens being that open space of curiosity which player is going to do what in that fight being free from being attached to the results on one end or the other being free from wanting anything other than what is that's that's the understanding it it is a life changing but it's not something that you learn and apply as a tool it's kind of it it is almost the opposite it is it is non-doing like being identified as as a self and being in a fight i'm striving trying manipulating controlling pushing doing a lot expending a lot of energy believing that i had that i'm in charge and i can change that marriage or change that boss and change myself that's that's what we say is a little bit delusional because nothing what is happening is any of my doing it is basically the response of the body mind to the environment it's not my doing So understanding that it is not my doing, that controlling part relaxes, it takes the energy out, it just kind of breathes out.

And the body still does what it is destined to do. The dog is still barking. But this striving element, the controlling element, the ego that is so invested in it is basically just non-existent. And the awareness of the whole dance is light. Even though the barking still happens, it is much, much lighter. That's the difference, I guess. And now Joe. Bob, I'm feeling such anger, tension, and accepting that this is what I feel, but I keep trying to find a solution in the mind, trying to find a fix. Want to not feel this. What do I do? I want to die and I want to kill someone, but I will not do either.

But I want peace and I can't find it. Beautiful. That's honest. Quit looking. Quit looking. It's very trying. Yes. It's causing the problem. Just let it be and see what spontaneously and naturally comes up, which it will. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's a beautiful illustration of the common daily struggle that people have. Always wanting what is not. Wanting to feel something else than what is felt and wanting something else to happen. And yeah, you have the way with words in expressing the feelings. All the exclamation marks. I love it. But yes, as Bob says, recognize the wanting and just see it as part of the dance.

See it also as, you know, like, are you angry? You say tension, anger, trying to fix it, trying to fix yourself or fix the other. Don't want to be in pain. Why? Why do you want Joe to be in love and pleasure and joy and not in pain? There is, you know, there is this beautiful caring heart behind it. Just recognize that beautiful caring heart. And then, you know, instead of focusing on that struggle, fighting tantrum on the floor of a supermarket by three year old who can't get the lolly, just recognize underlying intention in it, which is love and see the patterns. And also recognize the years and years and years we've been trying to fix it and haven't.

No. Wouldn't it be about time we say, well, maybe we're looking in the wrong direction? We're trying to fix the mind with the mind. It's trying to wash away blood with blood. It doesn't happen. So what way is there out of the mind? Just don't go there. Full stop. Pause the thought. Whatever you can. Look over the thought. Breathe out the thought. Do whatever you can. But let the thought be. Without a thought, what's wrong? What conditioning is there without? What? Can't say there's any conditioning at all. Then we got this conceptual idea we're conditioned. And all of us, well, you are while you're believing in it.

We function without conditioning. And do you know, Joe, what works with you? You know that walking in nature works with you. You told us. Yes. You can walk around the block, being with the green, smelling the air, and experiencing that breeze on your body. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. You said you are in nature, that your mind is quiet. Yes. And in that quietness, as Banky says, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. The unborn mind, when the thinking is in abeyance, it's not even still in the womb, actually, because they don't like to put it like that. It's not born yet. Well, everything is perfectly resolved.

So it's a very trying that keeps us away from it. Yeah. And it almost feels like I'm giving you an advice to go for a walk. It's just whatever comes up to inspire. Because there is no you to actually get it or not get it or get inspired or not get inspired. It's just whatever spontaneously comes up and whatever the response is. And yes, she says she sends us love and hearts and love and hugs to you too. And we've got a few more. Yeah. Okay. We're here. Tanya, Bob and Kat, just curious, do less thoughts appear when it is seen there is no separate self?

Do less thoughts appear? Of course they do. When there are less clouds in the sky, you know, the clouds are not attached to the sky and realize, well, it moves on. When there are less thoughts in the head, they move on. When they're not fixating on the thoughts, it's the fixating on the thoughts that keeping there and causes another one to arise. Yeah. Because the story starts with one story, one word in the beginning. But if we don't, you know, we don't fixate on the thoughts, leave them as they are, there's going to be much more peace, joy, clarity and everything else. Also, in my experience, a lot of thoughts disappear.

Disappears and don't appear anymore. Like all the self-referential narratives. Yeah. Like there may be thoughts, oh, what am I going to cook for lunch today? Or there may be thoughts as we are walking around, I'm showing Bob clouds or something. There may be thoughts about, you know, even what other people, how they behaved or something. But there is nothing in self-reference. Like it doesn't really mean anything. The thoughts that I used to obsess about it was the me. Am I liked? Or what people think about me? Or what if I'm, you know, that all self-referential narrative. I don't experience that one anymore. I didn't see Bob experiencing it either.

We don't really go there. I mean, it just doesn't appear. So it is that much left. I would say 90% left, less of the thinking because, yeah, it used to be a predominant topic, the self. And... Armanath says presence. And he's answering to I am presence. Present can't become absence, even in deep sleep, too. So it's beyond concept of word, concept of presence. Cool. Yeah, whenever you can go beyond concepts, that's the way, yes. And, Bill, talking to the I am you are talking to yourself, Because everything is yourself. There is only one self. Yes. And who can keep attention? Julia is asking. Yeah, good question.

Attention can be inspired to be kept. It can just be, you know, if you... I think it was Ramana Maharshi talking about keeping attention on the changeless. Of course, who is keeping attention? There is no one to do that. No, just recognize you're in attention. That's right, yeah. And who is to recognize it? Again, nobody. Well, no, but a scene, if you see it. Yeah, recognition is there, seeing is there. Recognition is a scene. It must be from its opposite. How would you know it was inattention if you weren't? Yes. How could you say it was good without recognizing the bad? Yeah. Yeah, the keeping attention, the recognizing, the seeing, the reigning...

It can only be recognized from its opposite. Yeah. From its opposite. And it doesn't need a subject. It doesn't need... For the seeing, it doesn't have to be a seer. For the understanding, that doesn't have to be an understander. It is just an activity. The recognition, recognizing is an activity. Yeah, understanding or seeing. Yes. Brings us back into the immediate. Mm. Amarnath, waking dream and waking sleep. Is there in waking also concepts? Thanks for this cut. They are there as long as interrupter, judge, separate center is there, so it is stateless state. Mm. Yeah. And thanks, Scott, for your joke and I remembered Nisargadatta saying, world is appearing like urine.

Spontaneous appearance. Yep. Everything's spontaneous. Mm. Amarnath? Amarnath also answering to I think to Joe Bob I'm feeling such anger tension solution or answer is outside the mind Bob that's what you're saying detach yourself you are there if you don't think what's the problem now that's also Bob thought and effort our mind yeah basically Amarnath is reminding Joe to find out what's wrong with right now if she doesn't think about it but sometimes emotions are so strong so predominant that stopping to think even for a moment is an impossibility distraction works in this way I mean going back to the other senses seeing hearing tasting touching smelling and with her particularly going and touching a tree hugging it whatever works it it's usually when there is enough of presence there's solution comes either as somebody else's thoughts or a piece of music in the radio or the cat crawling on your lap the it comes just stay open and Amarnath solution or answers outside the mind yes that's the same and now Julia this understanding can be used a tool to let go of the anger make seeming relationship conflicted ask who is taking action or not taking action and when it is seen it just happens with no personal doership the anger will fall away along with blaming or attribution of personal doer yeah beautiful yeah that's what you can do Joe ask yourself who is it happening to who is doing it it may resonate it may not I know that you might just come up with the answer nobody and it doesn't fix the problem but if it does following up and seeing that there is no particular entity irresponsible for it even looking for it is already breaking the pattern who is taking action and when it is seen that is happening with no personal doership that's the that's the key when when you see how automatic it is how mechanical it is how you know I think somebody is the bottom and the response comes automatically so that's what Julia sometimes also says my problem is not that somebody pushed my bottom my problem is that I have all those buttons so but this is not even your problem they're there so there is a spontaneous uh reaction happening if you see that this is not you you're innocent you see that your anger is innocent it's an explosion happening but you're not doing it it's just a preconditioned response just like this dog barking is not personal and then you can enjoy it you can see that fuel although watch your heart she had a heart issue that's a little bit tricky with but again the answers will come and thank you for asking and thank you Julia for answering Billy will Bob be accepting the new covet 19 vaccine will you be accepting new covet 19 vaccine I might be dead before it arrives and then who knows yeah I wouldn't have a clue what I'm gonna do in a month time year time or 10 years time I assume you wouldn't have a clue either no no self-respecting German live in me yeah and for whatever reasons uh Bob was always getting recommendations for the flu shots from his uh couple of doctors and he got them did you changing diet to alkaline ended the flu didn't have a flu for a few years now although first year when I was here flu was here every six weeks regardless yeah well who knows you know that's the answer is a baby cat or dog self-realized baby cat or dog they don't have narrative self are they self-realized they're functioning from the natural state naturally effortlessly yeah how could they be anything other than that yeah that's yeah that's that's the question of wording because there's a big discussion in Buddhist circles whether dog has Buddha nature or or he doesn't or she doesn't they they are in natural state but self-realized we kind of interpret as something that happened through the discarding of the Falls they didn't have to discard any Falls they didn't adopt it at the first place so baby didn't fall for the illusion of being separate self so it didn't have to wake up from this illusion or cat and dog they just pure functioning without any personalized self or ego that takes credit for that spontaneous functioning so they are in natural state and so is everyone else only the overlay of taking credit takes place on top of the natural functioning like nobody does the breathing or digestion or thinking or singing or any of it but everyone there who does all those things or maybe part of those things maybe just does thinking but not digesting but anyway whatever amount of credit that imagined self takes it is just an overlay of a credit taking habit because there's just life functioning through every pattern and doing everything including thinking swearing including being angry all of it so now uh Nasser yes recognize the one thing and know that you can't want and have something at the same time a good point yes so just let go of the one thing and then you'll see that everything is already present in in Infinite as Nisargadatta said to someone who asked him about yoga you should follow the yoga of letting go yeah that's beautiful Nasser yes yeah that's a that's a beautiful figure of speech how can you want and have something if you had it if you recognize you have it you wouldn't want it so recognize you already have it and then one thing is gone is done with and Debbie replying to to Joe again it's the dream character that is angry you are not a dream character that's precisely so yeah Joe enjoy the dream character like you watch the good movie on the screen and you see the hero or heroine or the villain on the movie being so intense and so charged with whatever shows up and you feel for them yeah so view Joe the same way feel for her love her admire her see how intense she can become and enjoy the show but you are free you are the one who sees that you are the one aware of that you are the awareness of Joe being a character in a dream yeah thank you Debbie that's a good beautiful point and Joe says I have a huge smile on my face wonderful why not why not yes and you've got a beautiful smile too uh Bob I'm feeling such yes this is Michael also hi Joe I've done one-on-one session with Bob when feeling similar frustration really helped and you know darling anytime is a baby cat and dog self-realized Amarnath is answering all ourselves without any concept aware of this rare unless we separate ourselves can't arise no questioner no questioner himself is notion absent yeah all self without any concepts when the concepts and division arises there is a questioning thank you Amarnath Bob your your fire is ice cool grace blessings to me as there is no me here magnificent your cool fire is a blessing to know me wonderful seeing Alvaro says that's it and Tanya makes sense that the self-referential thoughts don't appear don't appear when it is seen there is no self the thoughts are referring to that's right very simple less clouds in the sky love the analogy Bob thank you Bob and cat thank you and God what makes a dreamer conscious that he is not the dream inside the dreamer inside the dream yes beautiful question what makes the dreamer conscious that he is not a dreamer the very same thing that makes him see hear taste touch and smell that one consciousness called God the consciousness the God what makes the dreamer conscious that he is a dreamer inside the dream well when you wake up from the dream and realize your body hadn't moved off the bed no words would come out of your mouth and so that dream character had no substance or any independent nature this one seems to be but when you realize they are both dreams until you realize there's only it's all there is dream waking dream and sleeping dream that's all the whole manifestation is dream-like and also there is an aspect what makes uh that realize it kind of almost feel like realization is something added and it is the other way around for the dreamer to realize that it is inside the dream it has to discard the dream so the realization is an absence of the belief in a dream so it is almost as if you know the sky is clear when the clouds are gone so that is not that realization is an extra cloud of understanding is the absence and in that absence it almost is almost impossible to say the dreamer realizes the dreaming because this is already a concept in the realization even such concept doesn't arise this concept only arise to describe as close as one can what is that realization about but really it is just silence the realization you were you're dreaming a dream is is is just absence of thought yeah yeah take yourself take yourself out of the space right now can you nope what's space really empty nothing so what are you and I was taking place in space right now dream seem seeming dream characters seeming solid seemingly real seemingly so phenomenal thanks God for this intense silence in waking state is the ripeness of the fruit in seeker though it can't happen overnight said me sargadatta Maharaj what's he say this is me sargadatta intense stillness in waking state is the ripeness of the fruit in seeker though it can't happen overnight well that doesn't happen overnight isn't it no otherwise you wouldn't be sitting there looking for something yeah and it's silence it's always there it's just a little bit uh yeah not seen it's all not seen not recognized all the lay of clouds on it Nicholas says Bob please hit hundred plus Nicholas says that you must over a hundred I agree not that it is in his hand which he keeps reminding me but that is the that is the loving wish absolutely where is the belief of doership in the dream that's God where is the belief of doership in the dream only in the samey dreamed character that's right yeah it's part of the dream it's just a belief yeah it's just a belief yeah it's just a taking credit habit I've done it you know like in this and even on the ships you know when the ship is beautifully painted and everything is fixed and repaired captain would say yeah I've I've always wanted to be a captain.

I've always wanted to be a captain. I've always wanted to be a captain. I've always wanted to organize it I'm giving it to my reliever now all well I'm giving it to my reliever now all well I'm giving it to my reliever now all well and all not nicely dressed he hasn't and all not nicely dressed he hasn't and all not nicely dressed he hasn't done I think I was 20 or 30 people done I think I was 20 or 30 people done I think I was 20 or 30 people working on it but of course in certain working on it but of course in certain working on it but of course in certain manner he's got people who ordered that manner he's got people who ordered that manner he's got people who ordered that jobs to be done and yes it's just a jobs to be done and yes it's just a jobs to be done and yes it's just a credit-taking habit part of the dream credit-taking habit part of the dream and Mukti answering to the baby cat and dog being self-realized they are neurotic domestic pets are they not?

dogs which can't be left alone because they get distressed many pets aren't living in natural environments yeah many animals are traumatized and that's how it expresses doesn't mean that they have separate self and take credit it's just the conditioning by the way they're brought out you know tamed taken out of their natural state naturally even neuroticism is a natural state it's not necessarily thought based they're not sure what's going on yeah the whole body mind is wired for survival and if survival has been compromised for quite a while then the habit patterns are gone yeah and that's the mechanism there like a couple of dogs they know how do they know each other they'll go and sniff the backside of each one they identify themselves as dogs they don't sniff the backside of a cat or some other animal and they always return to the vomit they're lovely creatures that are transmitting how they feel happiness all over the world and teaching people joy but yes they can be totally they can be traumatized Amarnath you should have full fun of your dream character Ramana oh that's what Ramana was saying you should have full fun of your dream character full?

fun fun enjoy the dream character yeah yeah that's actually it takes a little bit of guts and fearlessness to see the character in a way that is impersonal because then only then you are fully ready to embrace your shadow you stop projecting that everybody else is evil you understand that that projection comes from here you're also capable of doing bad things or having nasty thoughts or feelings or emotions you don't have to project it outside of yourself and you don't have to feel guilty or ashamed you don't have to feel guilty or ashamed you don't have to push it down and pretend it's not happening you can be absolutely open and honest about being totality about being a sunny day and about being explosive tsunami wave or a volcano that's the freedom having full fun and full understanding of the character being totality what's Bob's favorite quote?

Billy is asking what's your favorite quote? I don't know what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? yeah that's the best one what makes the dreamer conscious that he is not this is a Emma Naz replying belief, non investigation but dreamer can't ask this who is outside the dreamer only can ask this question yeah that's a beautiful clarification yes what keeps the what makes the dreamer conscious that he is this was I think this was a question by God and Armanath is replying, that belief or non-investigation. But dreamer can't ask this question because the dreamer is the one to wake up from.

The question comes from beyond the dreamer. And everything comes from beyond the dreamer. Dreamer only takes credit for it. A dreamer is not an author of anything at all. So even if the question feels like it comes from the me or the mind or the dreamer, so what? It's just the credit taking happens. It always comes from the consciousness because there is only consciousness. Consciousness is life. You are the life. Yeah. And Jane, neurotic pets are caused by neurotic owners. That's often the case, yeah. That's often the case. They are traumatized by neurotic owners. Makes sense. Rohan replying to Tanya. Ramana Maharshi says that thoughts do not arise in isolation.

They are always in relationship to I or me. When I is seen that I or me is a fiction, then what would the thought stick to? As Bob says in his book, Beyond Words, Beyond Mind, the me is like a magnifying glass that concentrates. It is like the sunlight and burns you. When the glass is removed, the warmth spread evenly over the body. That is a beautiful one. Yeah. Yeah. We got to look through that little book again. It's a nice book. Thank you, Rohan. In relation, the very word is in relation to, as he puts it. Yes. In relation to a me. Yeah, of course.

It's only in relationship, which is dualistic. That's right. At any point. That's right. Any problem is going to arise. All problems are problems of relationship. Yes. And Amanath, that's only in our thought, imagination. No separation. Yeah, that was the answer to baby cat or dog being self-realized. Thank you. Yes. And Cha, we are no thing. Dreaming, we are everything. Yeah, you can say it this way. Beautiful. When we recognize we are everything, we understand we are nothing. Because everything is the nothing. But yeah, beautiful. How the dreamer in the dream vanishes doership belief. How the dreamer in the dream vanishes doership belief. It's only the recognition.

You don't have to do anything about it. Just see it as a pattern that is mechanical. Well, the dream character is only a dream too. . Yeah, it can't do anything. It doesn't have the doership capacity, so it can't do anything. But recognition. When you see that raining is automatic, you don't worry about controlling it. When you see that the credit taking is automatic, you don't bother with it. You just see it's not you. It's not real. It's not true. If. In this so-called waking dream, we are the dream characters. What are we doing? Or is it just happening? Yeah. Am I taking that breath I just took?

Am I beating my heart? Am I growing my hair into fingernails? No. Am I allowing these words to come through the voice box, the energy that forms the words? No. I've never done it. I've believed I was, but no, I'm not doing anything at all. It's the very life that's doing it itself. I am the life. Yeah. You could even just try and live your day without taking credit for anything, or without just... with just seeing how everything happens by itself. Just see how you walk to the fridge, open the fridge, the hand is grabbing a bottle of water or whatever it is, and see how nobody does it.

Just, you know... Just see how everything happens without any doership. Regardless of the narrative, things are just functioning. Seeing, you're not doing. Hearing, you're not doing it. Just a recognition of that doership being just an overlay, just a narrative. It's only a thought that says that you are the doer. Nothing else. Without that thought, things happen just the same. And Mukti, thank you, Kat and Bob. Even neuroticism is a natural response, not separate from life. Yeah, yeah. Everything's that life. Yeah. And Tanya says, thank you, Jane. And Tanya says, whoa, thank you, Rohan. You always share such clarity. What a great quote. Yeah, I agree.

And Jane, self-realized. Realized, knowing self is all there is. Yeah? Self is all there is. Absolutely. How the dreamer in the dream vanishes? Awakening from waking dream. Awakening from waking dream. I would say, first, awakening to a waking dream. So you can enjoy the dream. Don't stop it. And Hyman, Rumi mentioned, in the existence of your love, I have become non-existent. This non-existence linked to you is better than all existence. Goodbye, everything and nothing. Beautiful. Gorgeous. The link for anyone who needs to donate. Oh, thank you, Mukti. That's it for the quotes and questions? Hmm. Oh, no, there is one more. Julia, thank you, Bob and Kat, for sharing your beautiful wisdom.

I love you both. And thank you to everyone else contributing. I love you too. And we do love you. And everyone contributing and not contributing. Because everyone is that one self. Well, yeah. Even though we may superficially not like the patterns, I confess there is quite a few patterns that I do not like. There is quite a few smells that I do not like also. I mean, this is the constitution of that body. It is ingrained with preferences. Certain foods, certain smells, certain, you know, like Jane often squatting, Bob reminding a baby, a little baby, two or three year old, being attracted or repelled from whatever.

It is part of the nature. So as much as we may not like certain smells or certain colours, the essence of it is one and the same. And the essence of it is I AM. It is me. It is myself. So I do love the essence. We had a situation lately. There was someone who was asking Bob for endorsement. And Bob only met a person once in his life and very, very briefly. But the person says, Well, but he told me he loves me. I say, Oops. He does not love the personality or the body because he does not know the personality and he does not see you as a body.

He loves the essence. When Bob says, I love you, he loves himself the essence. So that is what that I love you means. Everything, yet nothing, questioner himself. That's Amarna. And thank you as always, Bob and Kat. Thank you, that's from Bill and from Sandeep. This is a great start of a Sunday morning. What are concepts in the dream? God is asking. What are concepts in the dream? Concepts anywhere are mental constructs. Concept is a mental construct. What are you doing in the dream? You're constructing. The constructing is happening. There's nobody doing it. Constructing is happening and forming all these images and patterns in the dream.

It shows the amazing intelligence energy of it all. It's able to do it. The life, that's how the life is functioning. They're thoughts, they're concepts. When you look at something, let's say you look at the, you look at us, and there is a seeing happening and there is labeling happening. And the labeling may be, oh, this is Bob and Kat, or maybe he is enlightened or whatever. Those are concepts. Those are mental constructs. What you see without the label is plain seeing. What you interpret and make meaning and add the significance, make important, make personal. That is all construct, mental construct, concepts in a dream.

So those concepts, they will arise. They will keep coming up. There's nothing wrong with that. Creating a beautiful ideas in the head or writing books or stories. They're also concepts and they're beautiful. They're a way of expressing. But to know what they are and to not believe them blindly is a freedom. Seeing no thing, yet it is seen. Yes. Not taking concepts too seriously. Just taking them lightly. And lots of love to all and none of you. That's Amarna. And just like we all have preference for Bob to live beyond hundred. Yes. Yes, please. And I seemingly have preference of loving over hating. Sure, everyone has preference for pleasure over pain.

Loving is pleasure. Hating is pain. That's part of the survival mechanism. That's the way the mind functions in Piers Robertson's. Although there are people who prefer hating to loving, but not because they prefer pain to pleasure, but because hating gives them sense of power. And having power and control is a pleasure for them. So it's different definitions of pleasures. For you, love is pleasure. For someone else, power is pleasure. And with power goes hatred. Yes, it's just the Piers Robertsons, though, isn't it? Yes, with power goes control, overpowering, controlling, pushing down. That's, yeah. But still, there's still pain-pleasure dynamic defined in a different word. And thank you for this morning, Bob and Pat.

Amazing grace. How sweet the sound. That's Taz. Thank you, Taz. Thank you, Taz. And Cha. The life flows through the body when it is in good condition, like water flows through a water pipe when it is in a good condition. But when you break the pipe, water never comes out. When you break the pipe, water no longer flows through it. Like, when you break the body, the life no longer flows through it. The life doesn't die, but when the body is broken, the life can no longer flow through it. But the life is still fine, living through all other non-broken bodies. Gorgeous. Beautiful, you said.

Your life doesn't die, absolutely. And Rox, love to you both, Roxanne. Oh, love to you, Roxanne. And Hansa, Roxanne. And Hansa, much love from Hansa. Lots of love, Hansa. And Amarnath, both the same, no difference. And Tanya, thank you so much, Bob and Pat, for streaming those meetings every Sunday. Lots of appreciation for that. And all the clarity shared. Lots of love. And lots of love from Mukti. Thank you, Mukti, Tanya, Michael. Everything. And everyone. And Alvaro, and Amarnath, and Sally, and everyone. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Love you all. Love you all. The essence. Take care.