Nonduality with Sailor Bob-Kat :-)

Good morning everyone. Same old, same old. Sunday morning. Go through the usual things we carry on with. Pointing out the non-duality of everything. And so it's nothing that really needs to be got. It's just the recognition and see that everything is that. And the whole manifestation is nothing but things. I are things. The chair, the carpet, the table, the sky, all things. Which were discriminated by putting the names on the shapes and forms. And that's all that things are, vibrating patterns into different shapes and forms. But we've taken them to be some things. And that's the thing when we put the label on. And that's where all the discrimination comes about.

Instead of seeing being the non-dual essence that already is and always has been. The silence, the stillness, the basic empty screen. We take ourselves to be separate. Individual and apart from it. And then that idea of separation comes upon us. With it comes a sense of insecurity. If you think you're separate from something and don't know what it is. You're not too sure about it. That brings about the insecurity. And when that sense of insecurity is there, you feel very vulnerable too. Because if it's something other than me, it can get at me or do me damage or hurt me. So that's where all our problems start from.

But in the non-dual, one without a second, pure, intelligence energy. The godliness, if you like to use that term, or the reality. That is all there is. Nothing separate apart from that. That is absolute. It's perfect, absolute. And that's how it always really is. And always and ever. Has been. And they tell you that in Buddhism, for instance. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's that awareness without any concepts, mental constructs or thoughts. In Hinduism they call it that. Chitinanda Namarupa. Existence, consciousness, bliss, name and form. Existence. Are you existing right now? Yes. Are you happy to be? Loving to be? You certainly are. You wouldn't want to be dead.

Or even if you're miserable, you still wouldn't want to be dead. And the name and form are Maya, or illusion. Just like all the rest of this manifestation is Maya, it's illusion. It's all vibrating patterns of energy which are seemingly solid and substantial. And that's why they call it the phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomena. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. Appears means it seems to be so. And look out there and see the analogies that make you realise that. The sea appears to be blue. But you and I, and you don't have to take much investigation into seeing the water is never blue.

It never is blue at all. The sky appears to be blue. There seems to be a blue canopy over the sky when there's no clouds and the sun's shining. But there's no blue in the sky. It's space. And there's space in this room right now. It's not blue. And does that space encompass anything? Does that room enclose that space? It doesn't. And anything can enclose it. And do you think there's an end or a finish to space somewhere? You can try and fly to the end of space. Try and get out of it. You can't. Space is no thing. But it has no centre or no boundaries outside.

There's nothing. No inside and no outside. Because nothing can enclose it. Or encapsulate. So it's that one space. Patterning, shaping and forming. And everything appears in it. It's a vibrating pattern. Subtly vibrating. Subtle movement of energy. And what vibrates it and spontaneously happens. You can say it's a magnetic field or something in it that draws upon it. Or movement, causes a movement. Take the ocean or water when it's calm and still and serene. There's somewhat of a movement of the stirs in it. And it forms a ripple. Forms a wave. But the ripples, waves and foam and spray are all nothing but water. And that's what all the ways this manifestation appears.

There's nothing but that one essence. That's vibrating into different patterns, shapes and forms. So what's so hard about recognising that and seeing it for yourself? But we've taken on the belief that we are this separate entity. We are this person. We are this individual. And we reinforce that belief. Because we learnt the words. And our parents told us. You're little Billy or you're little Johnny or you're little Jane. Or so and so. And then more thoughts. This is me. This is what I am. And everything comes about through words. The learning of words. And words of sound. And sounds of vibration. And the vibrations of movement of energy.

So the whole thing is all movement of energy. Energy is an activity. And the intelligence that's patterning, shaping and forming these things implies it's a fused with a innate intelligence. Because the things, patterns, shapes and forms around you. They're formed in an intelligent way. They're not willy nilly blobs of glue. Flowing a blob of paint on a canvas and making something out of it like a lot of the artists do. It's intelligence that's fusing a lot of it. Intelligence is knowing. Not the intellect. And knowing, the I in you, is an activity. So the intelligence energy is an activity of knowing. And isn't it? These patterns are suffused.

These human forms and everything. Are suffused with that intelligence energy. And that's what enables us to form words. Patterned words. And put the belief into the words. Through intelligence. People talk about it's not, intellectual understanding is not the intellect at all. But go beyond the intellect and see it's pure intelligence. Even enabling that so called intellect, the capacity of reasoning, to be there. It couldn't be there without that capacity. And that capacity of reasoning, another name for it, is life. You put it intelligence energy, you put it godliness, you put it all into it. It's basically life. And without that life essence in the body, what is it?

It's a corpse. Dead. What can it do? Without the life essence? It's still got the organs in it before it rots and breaks down altogether. It's still got the eyes, the ears, the heart, the lung, the hair, the fingernails, the cells. All these organs are in it. But if that life essence is not going through those organs, it's fusing. It's not a bit of good to anyone. So what does that, what would you realize from looking at that and recognizing that? You must recognize I am this life. I don't know what life is, but I know I am. It can only be that life. That animating intelligence energy.

Animating is the movement. I am that vibration or movement that's fusing it. And forming all these thoughts, words. And all these words are being learnt. Being picked up. That intelligence. Formed, the words are formed in. It's put meaning into it. The meaning is trying, it's what discriminates it. What changes it. And look at the way it goes. See it's a vibration. What's a vibration? A movement, somewhat of a movement. And it moves up, down, left to right or diagonally. Like the needle of a compass. It goes north, northeast and all the rest of all the different ways it points to. But there are no boundaries at the end of them.

Except what we put on by the word. This is good. How much further can it go from that? And this is bad. How much further can it go from that? This is pleasant. This is painful. We put the boundaries and all the limitations. Now what boundaries has space got on? It can fly to the end of the space if it can. It can be gone for a long time I think. So it's got no boundaries. What centre? What centre has it got? Can you pinpoint the centre to space? A place where space starts. Where it begins. Is there a static point somewhere? You realise there couldn't possibly be.

Couldn't possibly be a centre. That would be the centre to it. And we've got this in this manifestation. What we do, we've taken on a self centre. A static point. A self centre. We believe this personal self has a beginning. It has an end. And there is a static point in this body somewhere where it starts from. But can you find it? Has anyone ever found it? We take it for granted in the belief that it's there. But question your beliefs. We've believed so many things. Well we've been told without reasoning. And that's the definition of belief. Unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason.

When we haven't reasoned it out, we haven't done it. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Now until it's looked at, and you think something's a fact that's alleged to be a fact, you accept it. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. How would you get positive knowledge or proof? Whether it's a fact investigated, pulled apart. Have a look and see what you can see. Pull the self centre, this reference point apart, this me, this personal self that you think you are. Try and show me a thing called me. Is there a static point to it anywhere? And when did this me begin? You'll say it began at birth.

But you can't remember your birth. Why can't you remember it? Because you had no words. You couldn't pinpoint it without a static conceptual image about it all. So you had no words to pinpoint it. But you've taken a belief that you began at so and so. But you were born. Of course you were born. But you don't remember it. And also, did you begin at birth? You had no words. You couldn't begin. But weren't you forming nine months in the womb through the capacity of reasoning, investigating these things? And what formed in the womb? Which is you today. Wasn't it the essence of the food in your father and the breath he's breathing that formed in that body, through the intelligence in that body, formed a thing called a sperm?

And the same in your mother? The essence of the food and the breath, the breath and the food, very essential to keep this pattern called the body alive. Formed an egg or an ovum in the mother. And that egg was suffused with intelligence because it attached itself to all the uterus. And the sperm was suffused with that innate intelligence. It swam to the ovum. It has the capacity of swimming. So you think you began at birth. Now look at that. The same thing that formed you, it formed your father and your mother. Take it back as far as you can and see if you can find a beginning to it.

Other things before, you know, formed here you're breathing and the earth and all the foods you're eating to form the body even. And did it have any beginning anywhere? And it's all that one intelligence energy. It's fusing everything. There's no static point where anything ever began and there'll be no static point where anything can ever end. Because it's all taking place in space. Now have a look at space. Can you find a pinpoint in space anywhere that can say this will begin or an end to it? You can't. Now space to what you're looking at is no thing. There's no thing whatsoever. Now what do we do?

We've read about this and we learn about it and think we've got to become realised or liberated. And we meditate. What do you do when you meditate? What are you looking for? You're trying to find stillness in space. Now isn't that bloody ridiculous? Because space is the very first thing you see. It's closer to you than you're breathing, nearer than your hands and your feet as a poet says. But you close your eyes when you meditate so you can't see the space. And trying to get to that and the silence is already... Sound appears on silence. Sound is a vibration, a movement of energy. So that's what I say.

It's hard to get it by becoming it. You are already that. And you've always been already that. It's just a matter of recognising. Getting rid of the old habit. We're so locked into this habit pattern of thinking now, which is natural because our schools, our parents and everything else, we think we have to think. You gladly give up the thinking process every night when you go to sleep. If you were really the thinking process, you wouldn't want to lose sight of it because it would be the end of you. But you go to sleep knowing full well it's not the end of you. It's just the mind thinking is in abeyance for a while.

It's having a rest and it needs a rest for all the chatter it goes on throughout the day. Endlessly. It's a bit of a conceptual life. It needs a bit of a break. That's why you relax into the stillness, into the silence, into your natural state. And you'll see and recognise that you are that stillness and silence. You are that essence in which everything appears in. You are that godliness, if you like to use that term. You are the pure intelligence. You are the absolute. All these labels we put on it, you already are. Always have been and always will. There's nothing to seek, there's no one to seek it.

There's nothing to find and there's no one who will ever find it. It's already and ever is. They call what is. What is is part of the verb to be. Take the word be for a start off. And we think you are, when they say it's being, knowing and loving to be is another way of putting it. It's a catch and an end. It's the be-ing, the see-ing. And is-ing. But we don't put the is-ing, the ing on it because it doesn't sound good. That's what what is is. It's ing, is-ing. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is. And you can't negate your beingness. You can't say I'm not.

You can't say this life is not here. It is. So you can't say that's how it functions. It is and it is not. Just like your reflection in the mirror. You take your reflection or an image in the mirror and you take an image to be me or the other things you see, reflections in the mirror, images in the mirror, they seem to be real. But have a look. Go up to the mirror and try and grab an image out of the mirror. You can't. See, but you can't say it's not there. And you move away there, it still appears to be there. It appears to be so that you can't say it is or it is not.

So that is-ing, you can't say it is and you can't say it is not. You can't say being is not. You're not being. Being is being. Is. Being is being. It's always one and the same. Ever changing but never changing. Just like the ocean seemingly ever changing but never changing. It's still basically water and the water is still basically hydrogen and oxygen. And it can be broken down from that. I'm not a physicist, I can't tell you but they'll tell you. So there's nothing hard to do about this. It's all quite simple. Nothing simpler than this. It's all one and one. And it's not even one because one implies you've got to start off your count with one.

But if it's not even one, what's the count going to be? How can two ever arrive? So there is only, what they say, only that. The Mahavacca is I am that. And innately know that. Innately I mean already inwardly. It's already known that I am that. And you know that, that everything is that because you say that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the chair, that's the space, that's the sky. And that's you. And that is me. Or I am that. But they don't mean that. That's making, that's making the personal essence. But the person, a word or a label we picked up from an ancient language, meaning the mask.

And the mask, the only mask we got on it was a mask of concepts. Concepts are thoughts. Mental constructs. Ideas, images. As Agassiz will tell you, if he was around he'd still tell you, but it's in his book. We try to grasp it with a concept. And we fail. And he says we're bound to fail. Bound to fail means that you can't do anything other than fail. When you're trying to grasp it with a concept. Because it's the great perfection, I'll tell you in Buddhism, in other traditions, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That awareness is with you right now. That's the basic screen. The basic screen of awareness is no thing.

But it has the capacity of enabling everything to express or pattern and shape through. As it. The awareness hasn't left you right now. You're not unaware. You know that. But you can't tell me what awareness is. But you know you're not unaware. That's the basic. Come on, really, really, really. You recognise just the same as you know that the image in the mirror, though it's appearing to be there, is not a mirror. Not an image that's separate from the mirror. So you know. You are not separate from the totality. There's no persona. There's no masked conceptual image. It's only the one essence that's appearing as everything.

The one self. Not my self. My self is a conceptual image you have about yourself. If you say my self, who does that self belong to? You can't say the long, it's the self that belongs to self. It's not. So there's something that recognises that you're not that mask. But we take it to be the mask just the same until you recognise that there's no mask there. There's no conceptual there. You've never separate yourself from the oneness. The non-dual. The pure intelligence energy. Which patterns, shapes and forms, experiences and everything. And have a look at the image. And have a look at that thing you call mind.

And see that's all it's doing. Patterning, shaping, forming. Forming images. But we're discriminating them with the word. The label we put on it. The label that tells me that I am different from you. You are different from me. I'm different from the tree, the flower and everything. The word. Put the labels on it. But what's the basic essence of them all? Isn't it the one vibrating? The essence of intelligence energy. That's patterning, shaping and forming and everything. So while there's sense of separation, there will be conflict. And have a look at that. How it functions. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know?

Well I've had this before. It's a good experience. We want the good things to stay there. Not realising that everything is transient. It's constantly changing. Transient means change. There's nothing static out there. And so we don't want the good things to go. Not realising they're transient. Realise that body you're sitting down with now is not the same body you turned the Skype on a little while ago. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now. And being replaced. It's a wondrous intelligence that's functioning in it. It's digesting your food. It's growing your hair and your finger nails. It's breathing you. Beating your heart. Just the same as it is doing the same thing in nature.

It's rolling the earth around. It's rolling the earth around the sun. Causing seasons to come and go. The tides to come in and out. There's galaxies to form. Explode, implode. Volcanoes and climate changes. And all these things to happen. It's the very same intelligence that's breathing you. It's brought you into existence. It's living you. Don't you get recognised if you settle down into rest with it. And be open to it. It's going to open you up to more than you think. Open you up to more than your intellect can ever tell you. The thinking process. Recognise you are one with it. And if it forms you, let it express through you.

And be open to it. And that's where all the evolutionary thoughts and physicists and scientists and everything come along. That are moving next to this hematopoietic coming from. It's when they're tuned in, whether they know it or not. Tuned into that life essence and let it express through. But we try to learn things. Well you can improve on something. Some of the things are there by a bit of more investigation into it. But trying to learn something fresh and new. You need to be open to it and let it come there. And it does come spontaneously. Like science. I think it was Einstein who said he's worked out so many beautiful things in life.

And he said I was working on this problem and couldn't find anything in answer to it. But I went to sleep one night and woke up next morning and there it was. And how many people have had that? When what they've been pondering over and wondering over. It's happened to come about or dawned on them. What the answer was. So when we give that late life essence a chance. Recognise it and allow it to do it. Function as it's trying to do and wants to do. As it does in nature. It'll give us everything that's needed. And it does. But we say we think we're running the show.

So if something comes up I like it. And I don't want it to go. Not realising it's going to change. What do I do? To try and keep it there I resist it from going. Struggle with it. Focus on it. Try to grasp the concept and hold on to it. But no matter how much I hang on to it and all of a sudden it's going to change all the time. And it does. But how much you love them and want to keep them there. They certainly change. Much the same as your body certainly changes. We don't want it to go again. And that conflict is resistance.

Resistance is conflict. And conflict is resistance. And resistance means we are at war with it. We're fighting. Trying to keep it there. And this conceptual image that has got any power of its own. Energy of life going in it. And it's struggling with it. We've got to keep this there. We don't want it to go. And because that struggle goes on it stirs up the sensations and feelings and emotions in this body. With the thoughts, the feelings and emotions. Emotions come up with us on the stage. And the anger and the fear, the depression, the guilt and the shame comes up with this conflict that's going on.

Makes us uneasy. And uneasiness is disease. If you're not at ease, that's uneasy. And not at ease is disease. And look at all the diseases that are in this manifestation as well. Mental diseases, psychological, psychiatric, all sorts of viruses and things come about. Something comes up and I don't like it. The other way around. We see something and we realise that thought is basically the fear and the guilt and the shame that's come up over here. Divided against something. We don't want it to go. So what do we do? We try to force it out. Resist it again. Again, resistance is conflict and conflict is disease.

Have a look at your life and see how much of your life is made up of that. And then ask yourself the simple question, do I want to do this? Do I want to be this way? Maybe there is a way out. I've looked in the mind all the time to find out. And all the mind does is perpetuate it. One thought will bring another thought and another cause. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? And to do that, they need to try and look beyond thought and see past the thought. And take the concepts away from the thought. And leave it as pure mind.

Without the thought, I can't say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful. You can't discriminate it at all. What is it if it's not discriminating? What is it if it's not discriminating? It is. It still is. But without all the labels and concepts. So you're back to your natural, effortless, spontaneous state. And never find the answer in the mind. Because the very nature of the mind is to vibrate. The thinking process is a vibration of energy. It's vibrating into thought, concepts, ideas. And you realise that every direction you've always looked in has always been in the mind. And you've never found the answer. It might just dawn.

This might hit you. Well, good. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. I've earnestly and sincerely and all the effort in my endeavours have tried to find the answer. Never did. Never could. And I've always looked in the mind. What way is there out of the mind? Again, well, if I'm not thinking, pause the thought. Full stop. Don't go there. That's the direction to go in. And when that dawns on you, that very dawning, say, ah, the answer's not there, is an insight into it. And keep recognising that, you know, as the scriptural saying is. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

How would you renew your mind? Don't go into the old way of trying to work it out. But pause it. Remind yourself. It's not in the mind. Every time it comes up, it's not in the mind. And in saying that, what are you going to do? You're going to automatically pause, aren't you? Automatically be still. And it tells you in the Isaiah, be still and know that I am God. And that I am is the sense of prudence. It translates through the mind. It translates through the mind as the thought I am. That thought, if it's still and the knowing's there, it's the godliness of you.

Or the pure intelligence energy. Nine dual, one without a second. Anyway, I've raved on enough. Those of you that have got some inkling in it, and a lot of you have who are coming here, and can express it in different words to what I can. Some of you mightn't understand it fully, but you've opened up a lot. Others might see the clarity of it all and understand it. And if you haven't got that far yet, and just coming to it, and got any questions, do not hesitate to ask them. Because it's only by questioning, inquiring, that you might be pointed in the right direction and be able to look there.

But if you're not, if we've taken it for granted, like we've taken all these concepts and words, the belief that we are a person, we've taken belief in because our parents told us, our schools and society have told us, never question it. When you do that, you might find a way out. Our cat's got something to say. I'll let her have a bit of a go at once. She's got a good inkling into this these days. So away you go. Hello everyone. Happy Sunday or Saturday or whatever it is. We've got, oops. They've gone as usual. So I'll start from the end. Is non-duality a science, religion, or atheism, or all of the above?

Dino asking. Yeah. Well, all of those things pair in awareness. There couldn't be a science or religion or anything else that didn't pattern, shape, and form in the awareness, in the pure intelligence. Any concept or any word or anything that happens, it's still only that. We don't have to go and see where they come, where the awareness comes from. You can't negate it. It's the pure awareness. But everything appears in that awareness. Yeah. Which is life. And I like the approach in which you don't actually put any label on it. Like you say, non-duality, what is it? What really is it? It doesn't really matter.

It's just a way of trying to point beyond the duality. So we know what is the duality. And what's non-duality is really, they call it philosophy also. But it's not really about the intellectual knowledge. So it's not really a philosophy. It's not a religion because you don't need to believe in anything. There is no prerequisite for any believing. Atheism is also a belief. The belief that there is no God. That's a belief. Non-duality is not about the belief. It's about questioning and discarding all the false beliefs. So what else apart from atheism, all of the above? Science. Well, science, it will sound horrible. But it is also based on certain preconceived notions.

There was a Godel theorem that says that the science which uses vocabulary within its own field is not a science. And basically all of the science is like it. So it uses the axiomats and preconceived notions to prove another axiomats and preconceived notions. So science can be questioned as well. So as Bob says, it is all of the above. I would add a none of the above. Has science found the answer yet? No, they haven't. Has physics found the answer yet? No. Well, they found answers to different questions. But not to the ultimate question of life and everything. And they know much more than this little pattern is ever likely to know.

Yeah, it's only Douglas Adams that found the ultimate answer to life and everything. It was 42. But then he forgot the question. There is another one. Timothy, I think it is a common experience to feel awkwardness when with others. And then Tanya, it is only a thought about getting and losing it. Who or what cannot be found? There is colors and sensations, but no who. No substance or independent nature. Yes, it is a thought. Thank you, Rohan. You so clearly, gosh, this phone is jumping. You so clearly point to the truth. The thoughts, mind are true. But can seem, but the thoughts, mind are not true, but can seem to be.

Could seeing there is no one there to be end of psychological suffering? Yeah, and Megan reminds 42 is the tram stop near Bob's. Yeah, and we have two ways to get to Bob. One is jump off at 42, ultimate answer to life and everything. Another one is 72 goes to the end stop. There is no further way. And now, yeah, I guess those are all relating to the previous. I'll have to just find a way to get to the previous questions because I remember roughly. Maybe I'll see it here. Tanya was asking about the situation. Oh, yes. How can I look at the feeling of awkwardness when with others?

Because I don't have much to say. Seems there is a belief in separateness or identification with others. I notice thoughts about that and beliefs about the body's weight come up frequently. Is it enough to just ignore those thoughts or blow them a little kiss? Seems to be. Yeah. Well, who do you think is awkward? Hmm. So you've got the conceptual image about yourself. Oh, I can't handle this one. But what if you took the stance of, what if you took the stance that I am the reality, I am that intelligence energy, and whatever thought comes out of me, I don't have to put the label awkward on it or anything or whatever answer.

Well, if I'm quiet when people are there or if I open my mouth or I think, why should I be fearful of thinking, worrying about what somebody else is thinking about me or saying? If I'm awkward in there to them. So you have a concept about yourself. They'll have a concept about you. You'll have a concept about them. Which concept, which is only a mental construct, is right? When you realise that no concept, no thought is right, who can be superior to you? Who can be inferior to you? And what would you want of the other person? And it doesn't matter really what you say when you're coming from that essence, you know?

Hmm. You might be saying the greatest load of rubbish in the world, but the resonances in it will resonate with somebody who is open to hear it. And the words might penetrate, but the essence in the words. That's why I say it's listening from the heart, not the head. When it's heart to heart, that's a true listening. And it's not from the physical heart. Heart is from the core of your being, not from the mental stuff that's going on. But what resonates when you hear a sound, you know, before you translate it, it can bring fear to you or wonder or all the rest of it, because you don't know what it is.

But the natural resonance will know. If it's a sound to be aware of, you know it's dangerous and you'll move away or do something about it. If it's a sound of joy, well, you're warm to it, certainly. But in the words, in the description, you know, you might be saying something that's a lot of crap, but the resonance, the love of the life that's in it, somebody open to it will hear that. Like many years ago to me when I was talking this stuff, somebody come after me and said to me, I like what you say and I want what you have. And I turned them to look at this stuff.

And they've been going, going well ever since that time. The ups and downs of life have come, but they recognize their nature and it goes on. That's the same with quite a few people have done that. The same with myself. When I recognized it or resonated with it, it wasn't the body and the mind, something I'd heard many times. But this particular day or why it was said, something in this pattern resonated with it. And say, this is it. And I'll never be there again, caught it again. I was, but it wasn't the same. And the more it's seen through, the more clarity there is.

Like the sun and the clouds. When the clouds clear away from the sun, there's more clarity there. Space is not obscured anymore. When there's more clarity in the so-called mind, when you're not conceptualizing and locking in and all the thoughts, is it more, there's more presence there, there's more awareness there. And there's clarity. Not obscured. I'll also add that you've got a good idea, Tanya, yes? Blowing him a kiss and recognizing they're just the thoughts or ignoring them, they're good ideas. But there is also, when you are in a situation that awkwardness comes up, you can use it, totally use it to your advantage. Because that's a reminder that there is some sort of a concept blocking, like Bob says, that's clouding that clarity at the moment.

And that reminder, that beautiful, brilliant feedback mechanism from the body can actually bring up the question, okay, so the questions Bob has already introduced a lot of them. What's wrong if I don't think? Or I would say, okay, if I am that life, if I am that space, what is the space right now? What's the position of the space? And I tell you from my own experience, the most beautiful contribution you can bring into the group of others is to really listen from the heart. Give them this quality attention. Behave like a space. Space is still. In that stillness, if you actually hear and receive everything, that receptivity, and you can hear your own awkwardness, you can hear other people, what they feel, you may, you know, that may be a reflection, a lot is always going on.

And if the awkwardness comes up, that is something, that is an invitation to actually be even more present with that unique moment which will never be the same again. And if you see that it is about, oh, this is about me because maybe I don't look right, or maybe they think I'm stupid, hear it too. Hear it. Hear all those thoughts in the way that you see them as impersonal. They are showing up patterns. They're showing old fears, old habits. Give them the space. And then that makes the awkward moment an adventure of discovery of something that you actually learn in the moment. Awkwardness will be turned to something that is quite exciting.

And of course, in that situation, if you can really listen impersonally from the heart or see it as impersonal, you may as well see it for the last time. And don't make it too hard. And don't make it to a goal. If they show up again, that's equally wonderful because that's again the opportunity to really be present with it, whatever shows up. And I think there was an answer. Oh, yes, that was Timothy saying that it is a common experience to feel awkwardness with others. Yeah. And it's a common invitation and opportunity to actually give it the space. Just be the space for it because that's who you truly are.

And awkwardness in you and in others, all of it. Yeah, it appears. So if you think you're better than others, you're not so awkward. But if you think somebody's better than you, is that, again, is that labeling things and discriminating? See, it all is. See, as it is. Be still and know that I am God. I am is God. Yeah, there is another. Oh, sorry. Be still. Be still, I know that I am is God. Yeah. Be still, break that down. Be still and know that there is. I am is. Be still and know that I am. Be still and know. Be still. Be still.

Be still. And be. Be, yeah. Oh, back to being. Because there is a clarification on that question here. Tanya, seems to be I got it, I lost it happening here. That concept, that story. And Rohan is answering on this one. Who or what is the I that got it and lost it? What is it literally? Can it be found? As Bob says, does it have any substance or independent nature? Or is it just a thought? Beautiful. I got it, I lost it. It's a thought. Yeah. It's a flying thought. Don't believe it. Thanks, Tanya. Excellent. Revealing the great secret. What I have got, it has to lose it.

What is observer, witness, or both getting and losing can't be lost or found. This is Amarnav. Beautiful. Yeah. What you are, can you be found? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. That's good. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you so much. What you are, can't be lost or found. And the thoughts of losing and finding, absolutely. They may fly through. Judith says, love the laughter. So nice to hear. Miss you, Bob. You were laughing. I think there was one more comment on you being cheeky cosmique today, Bob. That's from Mukti. Yeah. Yeah. That's, he's a lot like this throughout the day.

Light. That's the enlightenment phrase, being light about everything, being easy, light in the meaning of cheerful, like weightless, and also light meaning kind of bright and happy. Of course there would be patterns, different patterns showing up on it, but that's a majority, the joy of living, the natural serenity. It has to be good days some days. Yes, every day is a good day. And now, no centre found, just sensations and colours, Tania says. And to try to categorise non-duality seems to contradict the very nature of non-duality, that Tass is saying. And again, my phone is all over the shop, this Tass was answering to the man who was, I think Dino was asking, whether it is possible.

Is atheism or science or something else? I don't really know. Sometimes it doesn't behave this way and sometimes it does. Tania, it is only a thought about getting and losing it, and who or what cannot be found. There is colours and sensations but no who, no substance or independent nature. It is just a thought. Thank you, Rohan. You so clearly point to the truth. The thoughts. The thoughts. I see. I see the thoughts. So that is the thing, the knowledge we're looking for, that we are not able to find, are not true but can seem to be. Could seeing, there is no one there, be the end of the psychological suffering.

Isn't it? There is no one there. There is no one there who is suffering. Yeah. There is just, it just – you can only see it in this moment now. So if you see it at this moment now, that there is no one suffering, it might be discomforting to you too. discomforting the body there may be pain but there is no suffering because suffering is a resistance to the discomfort and pain if there is no one there to resist the discomfort and pain they will resolve themselves but if there is a resistance to it i don't like it i don't want it i want to push it away that is suffering because that is fighting with reality which is already there john david i love you bobcat national geographic says both bobcats are elusive and nocturnal so they are rarely spotted by humans we are the happy few who observes your true nature that's beautiful beautiful yeah they're beautiful cats bobcats yeah amarna dear bob can you kindly explain this two questions first one is that you have to be self-tested until you are exhausted until then self-tests you again and again what was the second one the second one your efforts has to exhaust till until then self-tests you again and again yeah exactly that well well it's only by making the effort that you can recognize its opposite effortless isn't it yeah and also i remember bob was quoting this on some of the first meetings that i was coming up and he said that saying that when effort is required effort shows up if it happens yeah effort happens but there is no one who makes the effort when you realize there is no one who who makes the effort.

It's not really your effort. It's just the effortless effort, effortlessness in effort. And I like to think about it the way, you know, when life does things and not you do things, it's in the similar way when you are in love. When you are in love with someone, you do anything. You move the mountains for them. You do any work gladly with a smile on your face. And, yes? Come on. And with that one, when effort is needed, effort will happen. But there's no effort maker. That's right. Yes. So if there needs to be the effort to see the effortless, that happens by itself also.

Exactly. Yeah, that's what also happens. You know, when we go for a trip, he's got this 15-kilo scooter, sometimes loaded with whatever, shopping. And I gladly run down the stairs holding that and jumping it to the, putting to the tram or train or even, you know, any sort of work that I could possibly do for Bob. I'm not doing it. It's life gladly expressing us the labor. And it is obviously some calories burned in the process, but there is no sense of making effort or sacrificing or doing something hard at all. Same when you have, you know, you know, everyone knows how it is to love someone and moving mountains for them or looking after, like, you know, the tail.

the adult bobcat looking after the kittens. That is the effortless effort, no matter how much it costs them. Sometimes the mothers totally self-sacrifice to effortless effort anyway. We have Rohan answering that question also. Oh, and that's a similar quote that I remembered. When effort is needed, effort will appear. When effortless becomes essential, it will assert itself. You need not push life about. Just flow with it and give yourself completely to the task of present moment. That's Nisargadatta answering Nisargadatta. Thanks. Though it appears to be putting effort, doer, but in actuality we are effortless, non-doer. Only miss no more. Miss no more. Yes, beautiful. Amarnath, when we separate from our personality, dreamer, we are one with everyone, out of universal dream, as no one.

Yes. Beautiful, you said. One with everyone, as no one. Thanks, Kat and Bob, for nothing and yet everything. All of the above. None of the above. That's Amarnath too. Yeah, you've got a poetry sort of a feeling today. That's nice. Beautiful. And Caroline. Bless, I look forward to being able to make it next time. Ah, that was half an hour ago. And Jane. Who is feeling awkward? Is that not just a memory or image of you? As Bob says, that is awkward. It's only a concept of you. The persona or image is not the real. All conflict arises between the alleged me and the other.

Yeah. Absolutely. And good point, Tanya says. Yes, there did seem to be a subtle image noticed when there was awkwardness. But no one is feeling awkward. No who. The persona or image is just a thought pattern. I guess there can be no other reality. Thank you, Jane. Julia, you are the most beautiful pattern of love it has ever been my privilege to witness. I love you. And we love you, Julia. How beautiful Bob and Kat. Thank you. I'm taking the invitation to explore the so-called awkwardness. Is there nothing? If there is nothing to say, that is just what is. Is there nothing? If there is nothing to say, that is just what is.

That's Tanya. Yeah. Yeah, just listen. Just hear everything. Leave it is in all its purity. Just as it is. Yeah. And every pattern in the universe really cares more to be heard than anything. I mean, if you are in a group of people and they are speaking, they are communicating also beyond what they say. They may be talking shallow stuff about whatever TV shows. But there is a communication going underlying it. The feelings, the emotions, the being, all of it is being communicated. And when you think what you're going to say, you actually miss out. All that communication happen. Just be that silence. Be that receptive space of receiving.

People feel seen and loved when they are heard. That's the greatest gift you can give them. And that's more than you could give them by then by hammering something that you have to do or say. By teaching them. That's not, you know, teaching is actually kind of diminishing people. Just rather hearing and discovering what they already know and highlighting what they already know. Than confronting or teaching them. That's... It's only the discriminating mind that makes it awkward or fearful or unhappy. It's not discriminating, it's just as it is. It's either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Mm. You can't... No... What is means no preference, no partiality, no comparison.

Mm. You're not comparing it with anything. Just as it is. And also awkwardness is the temporary absence of relaxation. So just relax into it. It's the way we put on. Yeah. No one is doing effort. Effortless effort. Call it efforting. That is Ray. Say it. Tass. I can see that I've been trying to know non-duality. A me that wants to locate a me and gets it. In this wild goose chase, it is seen that I can't know non-duality. Simply because there is no me to know it. Thank you, dear Bob. Yeah. Beautiful. And to know non-duality, you are non-duality, so. Yeah. But I can't know it.

That's right. The eye can't see itself. Mm. Yeah. Thanks, Kevin Bob, for it's beyond effort or effortlessness. That's right. Exactly. How was that one? That was . Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now I wonder how many of the comments I missed out because they're jumping around the place. Mm. Good questions to me. Yeah. And some good input into it, too. Mm. I think I'm most relevant. I'll just change the comments. And now, Amarnath, thanks, Bob, for your discrimination is needed only in duality, mind. There is no mind. Mm. That's right. Yeah. No discrimination. Mm. Yeah, I think we've been there. No discrimination going on. That's what they call pure mind.

Mm-hmm. Or no mind. Or unborn one. Everything is perfectly resolved. In the unborn mudda mind. It's like a banky. Mm. No discriminating thoughts arise. The old mind ceases to be. For adoption. And they give me last few. Bob is watching a cat. That's right. Basking in the sun. Mm-hmm. Yes, we have from John David. Everything has changed, yet nothing has changed with understanding. A beautiful paradox that appears only to the conceptual mind. The world is again mysterious and an adventure to be lived like the youthful heart we never lost. How beautiful is that? Mm. Yeah. Yeah, like Bob mentioned, the ocean, ever changing, never changing.

And yes, understanding doesn't change anything. And it changes everything. Mm-hmm. It is a paradox, but yes, it is a paradox for the mind. With no mind, everything is just as it always was. So every moment when you are in the no mind, you already fully understood. There is full understanding expressing through. And then the mind comes and makes a whole of a difference, but only to the mind, not to the reality. Yes, transient. Everything is constantly changing. The changeless change. Mm. Yes. And then like, like John says, it's a mysterious way of everything being lived, life moving and leaving it. Rohan says, it is funny.

There is this concept that Bob and Kat are in Melbourne and I am somewhere far away listening on my computer. But this is not my actual direct experience. It is just a belief. The truth is that Bob and Kat are here and now and not at all far away. Everything is here and now. Brilliant. That's it. Yeah. Direct experience is always the one to listen and trust to, at least when we investigate that stuff. Mm. Mm. Beautiful. Yeah, just like when you get on the phone to somebody overseas. Yes. It might be a previous day there, so you're talking to them yesterday. Mm-hmm. And they're talking to you.

And they're talking to you tomorrow. Mm. That's it. It's only in the concept, isn't it? It is. The conversation is going on right now. Yeah, it is one layer of a dream that Kat and Bob are in Melbourne, I am not. And there is another layer of dream. Kat and Bob are here now and I'm interacting with them now. That's the dream too. Like, you know, we may be going for the, for the little walk after the talk. That's a dream. Us being outside now. We thinking of us being outside and walking. That's a dream. But us sitting here and talking to that camera, that's a dream too.

Because there is just life. Life dreaming itself a costume, dreaming itself that speaking, that mouthpiece, dreaming itself that holes through which it sees the world. That's a dream too. But that dream is, yeah, when the whole layers of the dream are recognized as a dream, there is a lightness. Everything is here and now. Now, Amarnath, today both of you, Kat and Bob, appear tiger and tigers eating all our concepts, minds, yet you are like thousands of mothers and fathers, love, so caring and affectionate plus compassionate. Are you just so, are you so beautiful? Yeah, you've got such a way with words. Such a poetic way of expression.

Such a beautiful blessing. And yeah, that's a wonderful gift. Because being able to see the beauty is already a wonderful blessing. But to put that in a beautiful words so that others can see that beauty as well. What a gift. It's nothing like beauty. Beauty opens your heart. Beauty is just bringing everything back to love and appreciation. And now, Ben. The only enemy of the mind is the mind. The only victim of the mind is the mind. Vilifying the mind for giving you a conceptual experience of being is like blaming the police sketch artist for not bringing you the suspect. Brilliant. Yeah. When you look at it, this thing called the mind is no such thing.

That's right. Yeah. I believe in that thing called mind. But all the mind is thought. And all thought is word. Word sounds. Sound is a vibration. That's right. All this is a vibration of energy. We put all these concepts on. And the energy of belief going in, making it real. Yeah. So we've got a story. That's right. And that story being believed, it gets so real. It gets so realistic. And we are all Oscar actors in that story. We all deserve the prize. In a way, the mind believes itself to be unworthy. And yeah, this is all the dance. Kiran, is there a correlation between dreaming and meditation?

Often while meditating, I remember dream locations from years ago. Not the dream itself, but the dream setting. Example, a house or building. Weird question. I know. But just wondering why. Yeah, I have that sort of experiences even without meditation. Sometimes the smell will trigger some memory. And I never know. Actually, sometimes I do. And often I don't. Whether it was a location in the dream world at night while I was sleeping. Or whether it was some of my travels. Because for 17 years I was working as a ship's navigator. I've been to so many places. It's actually hard to remember. But I've also dreamt a lot of places.

So I don't know if that has anything to do with meditation. Meditation might provide a quiet space for those sort of little flowers to come up and make themselves snow. For me, it happens without meditation as well. Yeah, I would say just enjoy it. Because it's amazing, isn't it? It doesn't mean anything. But unless you want to give it a meaning or a story, I wouldn't. But it's amazing. You want to say something about it? What was the question again? Kiran has this curious thing happening in her life that sometimes she sits in a meditation and dream locations come up. Like, you know, whether they are dream, dreamt in this waking dream or the night dream.

It's not really that relevant. But they just come up. They're just ideas, images come up. It all depends what you're trying to do in the meditation. Trying to become silent or still. When they're very trying, when you realise that the whole thing comes from the silence and stillness, it's already there. Trying to become still or silent or quiet, that's what every meditator wants. Very trying is the thing that puts the brakes on it, stops it from happening. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She didn't really mention about trying, just the phenomena. No, but that's when we sit down. We try to become still or silent. Instead of relaxing and letting it happen.

Yes. Jessie says, no questions, no answers. Just sitting with dear friends in love. Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you, Jessie. And Mukti says the same. Beautiful. That's it. Yeah. Yes. Thank you for being there, even though you have no questions. It's just sharing that joy of recognition. John David, a flower responds to the sun. Distance has no bearing on the light it receives. Gorgeous. Yeah. The flower doesn't even conceptualise any distance. Beautiful. Bob talks of undistracted non-meditation, Megan says. Yeah, where the trying doesn't happen. Yeah. There's no one to meditate and nothing to meditate on. Yeah. That's the natural meditation that's going on right now, if you would.

Yeah. Take yourself out of the road. Take the trying out of the road and everything. That's right. Yeah. And the spontaneous breathing, seeing, tasting your belly. It's all spontaneously happening. Yeah. What does really the word meditation or meditation means? I never thought of checking. Meditating is just being present. So, as life, you're always present. So, you are the meditation. The undistracted part of it means you're not... Contriving. Yeah. You're not contriving. Contriving with the thinking. Or discriminating anything. Everything is as it is. Yes. Yes. Not trying to push away anything. When thoughts or feelings or images come up, the ambitious meditator would want to put effort to push it down.

And that's a lot of action and a lot of resistance. And a lot of assertion of the control and power of that meditator, that assumed meditator, exercising, I can do it. I'll control it. That's the total opposite of what the meditation as the principle was. I tried for years. All sorts of things could distract you. Yeah. A fly landing on your nose or something like that. Or a sound or somebody moving in the room. Yeah. They're very dry. And you screw up, face harder and try and try and try. Not to mention the narrative or images. And all the previous jolts coming out. Yes. Who's trying?

Me. Is there a me? No. Well, full stop. Full stop. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that sitting won't happen. No. Yeah. Gone also. Nothing more. And we don't have any more questions. And we have less people watching. So I guess that may be time. Oh, no. There is something. Okay. Out of long habit. We step into thoughts and get carried away by them. Rather than stepping out of them. Yeah. That's right. Now, habit patterns seem very real. But habits can be regular. You recognize them as a habit pattern. Yeah. And thoughts, almost as every other form of life, developed its survival strategy. And because thought depends.

It's almost like a parasite or a virus. It depends on the organism that it is feeding off. It depends on attention. So it actually developed a great survival strategy to attract attention and hold attention and get attention. So thoughts are really attractive. They're really seductive. They're really promising you a ride. So they're really brilliant in the way they grab that attention. And make themselves actual. Actualize themselves. Leave themselves to the fullest. But again, this is just a habit. If you recognize yourself that as that space. You don't fight the thoughts. They show up. They get as much attention as they do. And they disappear just like a passing clouds.

There is no investment. There is no particular attraction. And there is no repulsion either. They just. There is no one to be attracted. There is just what's happening. We get a couple of more. Oops. I can move it. We are leaving proof that habits can be broken. Bob, that's Jane. Yeah, that's true. She's one of them. Yes. And Amarnath. Bob, can you kindly explain about dealing, no dealer, with memories? I see as non-dual awareness manifested as dual consciousness in the concept of time. In timelessness. Can you kindly explain about dealing, no dealer, with memories? I see as non-dual awareness manifested as dual consciousness in the concept of time.

In timelessness. Hmm. Hmm. Can you kindly explain the whole consciousness appearing in awareness and time appearing in timelessness? Yeah. About the dealing. What's happening in the world? The dealings of the world. Without any dealer. I mean this is how the world appears. The time appears in the timelessness and the consciousness appears in the awareness. The whole manifestation comes and goes. Yeah. This is spontaneous. emanation with no static point anywhere, no substance. Vibration that comes and goes, seemingly vibrates into patterns, shapes, and forms, but nothing static about any of it. It's constantly changing. And also, if not for the so-called dual consciousness, there would be no manifestation.

Yeah. Yeah, there is either duality, which is diversity, multiplicity, and all that juiciness of life, an infinite amount of shapes, and patterns, and forms, and vibration, or nothing. That's it. There'd be no manifestation. You couldn't discriminate it. We've got no thought. It just is pure. So it is really an expression. The emptiness expresses and catches a glimpse of itself as the form, a multitude of them. And the form is nothing other than the emptiness. That's right. Really, no thing has ever happened, just the same in change. Always in the infinite. The opposite stem. Yes. And God, I feel like acting every role, the seeker, the victim, the me doer, the non-doer me, et cetera.

Yeah, yeah, acting happens. If you are the reality, you must be. Yes. Yes, as life, yes. Life is putting all these different costumes. It's just when that role playing is recognized, then there is no pain or suffering in the role. But yeah, nicely said. And Mukti? Bob, can you please speak about how you broke habits without reinforcing a me? Well, seeing there's no me, recognizing there is no me, for a start, where can the habits, what do they can fixate on? Who's going to, who take, or what takes them on board? They're not taken on board. What are they going to do? They don't. We go back to the old habit.

We've gone back into a believed in conceptual image of a thought of some sort, and taken it to be real again, something there. But if it's just vibration, continuous vibration, nowhere to fixate on, who does anything? Yeah. Constantly moves on. And when did it, you know, and you see it's that, there's no need to go with it, you know. The habit of drinking. You know? Couldn't top it. You know? Who's doing it? Me. If there's no me there, who has the desire? Who think the need of it? Who wants it? And yet there's still a mystery about it. Because, you know, Nisargadatta knew there was no me, and he still kept his habits.

And some habits we don't want to break. You don't want to break. Yeah, we don't want to do anything. Mm. Mm. Mm. You don't want to do anything about it, you're one. Yeah. Recognition is usually, because when the habit is recognized from that impersonal space, then there's no investment. There's not even that urge or fuel to break it that makes it less important, and it may just drop off. But there are habits like chemical addictions or other things that need another approach, and usually life delivers it. If there is a readiness and ripeness, or if that's the way life has it, it delivers. And who knows?

I mean, you know. Well, if you're getting some, you know, if it's doing some damage, and you realize it and don't want to do it, you don't. You want to. But how you do it without reinforcing a me? Hand it over, what they call hand it over. Give it to that essence that you are. Surrender? Yeah. Surrender the me? Well, the me doesn't exist. When you recognize it doesn't exist, who needs to surrender? Yeah. In the 12-step programs you do, because. Oh, yeah. That's how you broke your habit pattern of drinking. Yeah, that habit pattern was broken before Bob met Nisargadatta, and it was through the surrender of the me to the power greater than oneself, and power of the group.

And a lot of attention. Well, sometimes it may be necessary for the life to do reinforce the me for some actions. It's a belief there. And. Well, it's all called me with selfishness, self-centeredness, self-will run riot. And they say you must be rid of the self, you must, or it kills you. It's a belief in separate entity or the self that's taken delivery of it. Who's got the habit? There's no self. Yeah. Who would want to do it? Yeah. As I say, if you haven't got the concept about you or the other, without the concepts, you know, who's superior to you, who's inferior to you, and what do you want of the other person?

Yeah, but then if it happens so that you realize there is no self, it may happen that nobody wants to break the habit. That's right. And the habit goes on. Yes. Well, in a lot of cases, that's what it does, isn't it? Yes. But then you ask the question, who cares? And you find no one there. Well, if it comes up that this is, you know, it might come up in intelligence as there's a bit of damage going on here. Making me ill or not making good enough or causing all sorts of concepts or thoughts to arise. It might be the key to take notice of it.

Here's it all happening to you. Yeah, life finds a way. Megan says, thank you, Bobcat. Just beautiful. Thank you. And Kieran, if it is a strongly repeated pattern and no doer, then how does it change? Hey, which one? Strongly repeated pattern. Yeah. Like this pattern, you know, the most painful and suffering forming habit is the very, very strongly repeated self hypnosis. That I am the body. I am the body. I am the body. I am Katharina. I am this. You know, and then lifetime and everyone else reinforcing it. That's the habit. Yeah. We think it has, we think it's strong. I think it has some power.

There's only one power. It's the belief goes into it that's strong. And it's, we can't do anything about it. And so we're overpowered by it. And so that belief again comes into it. And questioning the belief. Is it a strong pattern? It's a habit. It's a pattern. It's a habit. Yes. Who's it happening to? And it's happening to me. Well, who's the me? Look again and see if you can find a reference point that's taken delivery of the pattern. There's no reference point. There's any static point or any substance at all. Where's it going to lodge? It's got nowhere to lodge to. Nowhere to take it aboard.

It's not picked up. I'm not going to do it. You know, just leave it as it is. Yeah. Like Jesus says, find ye first the kingdom of heaven and the rest will be added onto you. Break that first pattern. That the me, the who is the me? Where is the me? If that pattern is broken, and again, you're not doing it, but the investigation, being inspired by that life to look at its own self. Yeah. It may bring about the recognition and then repeated recognition. In some cases, it's just one recognition and then you never believe it the same way again. And the rest is going to be added onto you.

Either if you have the pattern of smoking, the pattern will drop off or the pattern will continue, but there will be nobody who's bothered with it. So it won't be really a problem. And yeah, that's the main habit of the me. Yeah. Yeah. So the main habit pattern, and even though it is so repeated, like Kiran says, it does break. How does it break? It is not a recipe. Investigation helps, but there is no simple recipe how the consciousness wakes up in various bodies or patterns. It does as it does. Some people believe that meditation helps. Some people believe that regardless of what they do with their minds or with their bodies, it has nothing to do with the consciousness because it comes from a different place.

And I don't know if the belief matters. I don't know if the placebo works in this case. I don't think the consciousness would put limitations like this beliefs and placebos. But what do I know? And then Amarna says, feeding fuel in habit is attention to the mind. Inhabit is attention and belief in separate center, which is false, exists because of non-investigation. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's it. Does it just naturally drop off as part of life if it's meant to? Well, it will drop off when the body dies, but it may also drop off before that happens. What's that? The I, the habit of self-identification.

Yeah. Yeah. There is no identification usually quite often when you watch the movie in which you completely forget yourself. Yeah. If you see it's false and understand it's false, it's got no substance to it, you can say I as much as you like. I, me and all these things. Just the same, you know there's no blue water in the sea, but you can see the blueness there every time you go in. But you know the truth about it. Yeah. You don't have to speak in certain ways because you've recognized the truth. You're still speaking the same old. Yeah. You're still speaking the same old. Oh, why?

She says, does it naturally drop as part of life if it's meant to? If it's meant to, you will find a group like ours and you may be inspired to investigate and that investigation may help if it's meant to. Yes. Or the relaxation may happen if it's meant to. Yeah. It's kind of a tricky word if it's meant to because it kind of says that it was predetermined, but it's not. It's spontaneous. I knew. And I say that's what takes you to it too. If it's going to happen that way, you probably won't do anything about it. I wouldn't have done anything about those habits if I'd left it to my own devices and thought I could get away from it.

But nature, life essence wouldn't allow that. Yeah. There was a pain and that became so, and worry, all the concern that went on with it became so. And I think that's what's so terrific, you know, the horrors and the duties and all of it that forced me to look in places where I would never look before. And that was the chink in the armour. Instead of the closed mind, the mind opened up to go where it was dragging me, trying to drag me to. It's amazing how life takes you where you ought to be. It's always such a creative life story. Every life is like a fascinating book or a movie.

And even back then I believed I was running the show and I was a good fella having a bad trot and all the rest of it. And, you know, well, it knocked that belief right out of me. And it didn't knock that out until I had to question it. And look where it took me to. And a lot of the places it took me to. I didn't want to go there. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to go and see Nisargadatta. But more or less circumstances forced me through the pains and the worry and the concern. They said they know me. Though I say me here all the time now, but I know that life has taken me to where it is, where I am today.

And it's carrying on. It's going to take me to where it ends, whenever that is, you know, when it comes to a certain level. I hope it's not going to come soon. It's going to take me. It'll go out of this pattern. But nothing will be lost. Yes. And that's, even that is the story. We love the stories. And there's nothing wrong with loving the story. So loving the story of your life, loving the story of the synchronicities and the so-called meaning and purpose of how life was actually playing with itself, playing that hide and seek, flirting with itself, finding itself, glimpsing itself, having insights.

That's just such a beautiful, beautiful dance. It's still a thought in the moment. Because when I stop thinking, it's all gone. It disappears. There is no life story. There is no past. There is no how it happened or how it got me here. None of it happens. So it is a part of it or a layer of a waking dream. I'm here in that waking dream, dreaming myself, the body and this beautiful man next to me. And also I'm dreaming the whole past of what happens before. This moment. Or even the before being possible to exist. It is all a dream. But it's a beautiful dream.

And when you know it's a dream, it's actually entertaining and it's not harming. It doesn't cause suffering. I'll have to go. Oh, okay. I'll have to wrap it up then. Yes. So thank you everyone. You have to excuse me. I've got to go. Love to you all. Yes. Love to you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.