Sailor Bob, Kat - nonduality 19 July 2020. Life moves you...

Hi everyone, here we are again. Same old, same old. Non-duality is what we call it, that's one label. But any label you put on it will not be in, because the label shirt is never the shirt. Label dress is never the dress. The label you, me, I, this or that is never the word. The word's not the real. And we've got words and labels for everything. When they call it non-duality, they mean it's one without a second, only the one. And it's not even one, because that one hasn't any shape or any form. It means it's a thing in which everything appears, plays around and disappears.

They call it space or silence or stillness or awareness is another label for it. Awareness or God or whatever other label you put on it are only ways we try to describe it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. It's trying to be pointed out to us. It's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, expressing and appearing as everything. And the great traditions are formed around that. But having to use words to describe it, that's why all the different traditions are around there. Hindus, Buddhists, Jews. Christians, Muslims, all the different traditions are pointing to the one essence. That's where the confusion has come in and that is lost sight of.

We've taken on the persona. Persona comes from the word, that's the word persona comes from the Latin meaning mask. We've got a conceptual image on ourselves. Take ourselves to be persons, individuals, separate. Instead of seeing or recognizing, re-cognizing, it's been cognized many times throughout your life that we are that one innate intelligence. I use the term intelligence energy, which is just another label. But I don't know. I don't use the word God because you can get confused with that. Because each of us come from different traditions. Some can be atheists, agnostics, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists or Jews. If we start talking about God, they will put their definition or what their traditional definition is and lose sight of what we're pointing to.

But the one essence is the basic life. Okay. That's the essence of everything. Of all these things. Out of life, more life is continually coming. And that's what we don't realize, that you are that life. Each and every one of us is that life. Because take that life out of the body and you've got eyes, ears, heart, lungs, kidneys, all the organs are there before it starts to rot down. But what good are they to you without the life suffusing through it? And the brain we give so much importance to. They're all important things, yes. But we give too much importance to them and don't miss out.

What is animating or expressing through them is the life itself. Just the same as your computer, I use that. It's an analogy. It's got all that information in it. Some amazing information. But what good is it to you if the power's not turned on? And what good is it? What good are the globes or the computer or the TV or the radio or anything like that without that power going through it? It might make you stop and reason, well, maybe I'm not this personal life. Maybe I am this one power. Because there's only one generator that's forming all that power to go through it. So I call it the life.

So I call it, use the term intelligence energy. And I don't mean intellects when I'm talking about intelligence. When people know that within themselves, they say, I have an intellectual understanding. But I mean, when I'm talking about intelligence, I'm talking about the same intelligence when you look out there in nature. The natural intelligence that's out there right now. It's forming patterns, planets, stars, cosmos. It's the same intelligence. It's the same intelligence. It's the same intelligence. And it's that causing the earth to go around the sun, the seasons to come and go, the tides to come in and out. And it's that same essence that's breathing right now.

It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. It's the very life that enables you to smile and laugh and do all these things. And also brings around the sadness, the desperation, the depression, the joy. And it's that same intelligence. And it's the same intelligence. And it's learning isn't nervousness, the sadness and anxiety and fear all these little things that are holding us back. I'm not talking about my brain. I'm talking about your brain. I'm talking about me. I'm talking about being in a state of essentially being in Hell. And you're not even in a state of experiencing resilience.

And it's the same intelligence that's bringing you a crisis too. It's massive. But that same intelligence, the fear, the anxiety, the depression, and the joy, the unhappiness, the fear, everything. All different patterns, shapes, and forms. But the shapes and forms are only vibrations of that intelligence energy. Intelligence energy is what I like to call it. Intelligence is knowing. Anybody who is not knowing right now. That's another name for it. Or it's awareness. And it was unaware right now. That's being, anyone who's not being. And so we call it awareness. But can you tell me what awareness is? Can you give me a label or a thing that's apart from the word?

But it is life itself that's a label, and there's words to function. It's forming this manifestation. And everything in it is cosmos. And the way it patterns, shapes and forms implies it's a fuse with a wondrous, amazing intelligence. Even this body, with its heart, lungs and liver and all the organs and the sinews and the blood and the vessels and the nerves, implies it's a fuse with a wondrous and amazing intelligence. And the brain, if that life energy is not going through it, it's useless. So it's the form. It's the very life that's patterning, shaping and forming in everything. And that's all this manifestation is.

It's made up of things, what we call things. So you and I are things. The trees are things, the flowers are things, the spaces are things, the skies are things. Everything is things. And basically, it is no thing. The things are the labels, or the names and forms we put on. The names and forms. Sat, shita, nanda, nama, rupa are the five factors of Hinduism. Sat is existence. Shita is consciousness. And nanda is loving to be. And the other two factors are nama, rupa. Nama is the name. And the rupa is the form. Name and form, they say, are Maya. They're illusions. But existence, are you existing right now?

Then you'll say, yes, I'm existing. Are you conscious right now? You're happy to be, yes. So you're already that. So you see it's already there. There's no need to search for it. There's no need to look for it. Just to recognize it. Because when we learnt the language and the words, we took on the idea that we were a separate entity. An individual, a person. And realized that. That every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been picked up along the way. It's been learned. It's been acquired. You weren't born with any words. That's when I ask you, when were you born?

You don't remember. And how can you remember if you've got no words to say, oh, it was such and such and such and such. But you learn these words later on. Then you put a date on it, when you were so-called born. But you don't actually remember it. And for the first two years of your life, two and a half, or earlier, or a bit later, all depends how smart you are, I guess, when you first started to learn words from your parents. Then you went to school and learnt more words. And then you learn more words today. So every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been picked up along the way.

It's been learned. And you probably still learn no words to this day because we've got a dictionary full of them. There's plenty of words out there that have been picked up and learnt and put the name on, different languages. But the word's not the thing. Take the word water, try and drink it. Try and swim in it. Try and drown in it. Take the word fire, cook with it if you can. Heat yourself with it. When you look at it, when you look at this I or me, this persona, made up of words, what is it? What are you without the word? And you negate your existence.

You can't say I am not. You can't say I am without the word. You can't say anything at all. You are that pure being. And that's another way of putting it, that Chetananda, instead of existence, consciousness, bliss, being, knowing and loving the me. Awareness of being is bliss. Different ways of saying it. It's a different way of saying it. Different ways it can be expressed with the words. That's not the one word. Pat me, say it before me. That's our problem with words. And this is all this talk is about words. It's not real. And maybe in hearing it with the words, you'll see through the word and utilise the word, but don't be bound by the word.

And that's the problem. The bondage of self. We take this word to be the self. And as soon as we say self, they tell you in the traditions that there's only one self. They call it the Atman or the one self. And it's the self that's shining. It's the self that's ever fresh. It's the self that's presence awareness. And there's only that one self. But as soon as we put the personal self on it, it is my self. So we've brought the me and the my and the I into it. All separate separation. And we've divided ourselves or separated ourselves from the totality. From the absolute.

And there is only the absolute. Or in Buddhism they call it the great perfection. Now what can you add to the absolute? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. What can you add to the great perfection? Nothing. What can you take away from it? Nothing. So the two words are the same. They're describing the same, trying to describe the same thing. And you are that. That's the Mahavikya. That's the great mantra. I am that. Innately you already know that, don't you? Because you say that's the chair you're sitting on. That's the tree. That's the flower. That's the sky. That's the space. That's you.

That's me. Everything is that. We know it already. But we put other labels on the mat and it's discriminated. And it tells you in the Nsing Ming when no discriminating thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to be. This mind that we're bound into, it ceases to be. It doesn't mean to say it goes away. The mind is no mind, or a pure mind, what they call pure mind, or whatever. A mind without any concepts or labels, which is divided. Ask yourself, question yourself. That's what we need to do. The false can't stand up to investigation. Am I this body? Innately you already know that too, because you're not.

You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're not. You're no body. There's no body. You know that too, because you say my body. You re attribute it, because of this conceptual image you have of you object yourself. This is my. This is my body. Well listen. Investigate it. See what the body's made up of. And you realize the body's made up of elements. It's made up of air, earth, fire, water, space. Separate yourself from the air. It wouldn't last long, would you.

Take the water out of your body. Take the body temperature, the fire that heats the body. You can get hyperthermia and die. Get off the Earth if you can. See how long you'd live off the Earth. Even if you're in a spaceship, you're not going to last much longer. Too long up there. Get out of space if you can. If you're in a spaceship, you're in space. That's part of the manifestation. Try and postulate. Get out of space. Try and postulate anything that could be outside of space. What would it be in? You realize you think of something, it'd have to be in something. It'd have to be in space.

So the Buddha called it a cognizing emptiness. We've taken that on board. We think we are cognizing the emptiness. We're seeing the emptiness. We're seeing the space. But he didn't mean that at all. He meant that it's the emptiness that's doing the cognizing. Not a personal cognizing. It's the emptiness itself. That enables you to be in space. Intelligence in the emptiness is forming the patterns, enabling us to speak these words, to learn and cognize it or know it. So it's a knowing emptiness. Or another term for it is awareness. Awareness, you can't put any shape or form on it, but you can't say, I am unaware right now.

So if you're not unaware, you must be aware. Isn't that so? That's simple enough, isn't it? When you're not asleep, you must be awake. Isn't that so? And there again, you've got the opposites. That's the way the mind thinks in the opposites. Not unaware, you must be aware. If you're not asleep, you must be awake. If it's not good, it must be bad. If it's not pleasant, it must be painful. If it's not happy, it's sad. If it's not positive, it's negative. That's the other thinking functions in all the pairs of opposites. But those opposites are not self-evident. They're not separate at all. We think they are.

We like one thing. We like the good. We don't want the bad. Not saying that there's never any one-ended stick. Each stick's got two ends to it. Every coin's got two sides to it. So we want the one and not the other. But as Nisargadatta says, you're dreaming a dream and call the world. Stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is that you'll love one part of the dream and not the other. And he's pointing it out to you. What's the problem is? Instead of seeing it all as a dream, the good dream and the bad dream, the pleasant dream and the painful dream, it's all a dream.

And he says love all of it or none of it. Don't discriminate it into half or this, that, and the other. So if you love none of it, well, you're not discriminated. It's still the whole dream. And if you're loving all of it, it's still the dream. But if you're thinking, I love the good dream and I don't want the bad dream, then you're still in the dream. You're still trying to get rid of it. And he says when they see the dream, no one dreams, it's only the dream. When it's not discriminated, the old mind ceases to be. You see everything as it is then.

Doesn't mean to say the pairs of opposites won't come up. They'll come up in pattern, shape and form. Now there couldn't be a day without night. There couldn't be a silence without sound. There couldn't be a movement without stillness. So it's day and night. And you're still in the dream. You're still trying to get rid of it. So what's day and night? Now look at it. Night is darkness. And what's darkness? It's just the absence of light. And what's day? It's the absence of darkness. So they're still the same stick. But one appears to dominate the other. But it's not. Like the North Pole and the South Pole.

Go south, how much further south can you go? Your next step will be north. And going north, your next step will be south. Where do they meet? At the equator. Now why would they call it the equator? Because it knows it's in a point where it's neither north or south. It's in equilibrium. Just the same with us. When that equilibrium is there, we're not in the pairs of opposites. What are you? You are that life itself. It's not the individual or personal life. It's the one life that's patterning, shaping, forming, expressing and experiencing. It's everything. As everything. And you are that life. Can you negate your life, the beingness?

Can you say, I am not? You can say it and say it and shout it as loud as you like. But the very fact that you're able to say it proves you're just telling yourself crap. And to say that you are unaware. It might seemingly, it might be the absence of what you call thought or sound or sensation. For a moment or two when you're in deep sleep or something like that. But you're still breathing. Your heart's still beating. Your hearing and fingernails are still growing. Your life's still there. And it's not expressing in pattern, shapes and forms at that particular moment. It does. After a while it forms a dream.

And that dream is no different from this waking dream. The only difference between this waking dream and the dream you have at night. The dream you have at night finishes, isn't it? Sometime during the night or the day or whenever. It doesn't last forever. And a couple of days later it's forgotten all about. If it's not forgotten about immediately after you wake up. But we wake up to this dream. And it's a waking dream. Because it seemingly continues every night from where it left off. And we've got memory and things like that that recall it. And patterns, shapes and forms. So... I don't realise that.

Leo Hardong wrote a book, Awakening to the Dream. Not awakening from the dream, but to it. And that's what he means by that. We awaken to all this as a dream. And when you awaken to the dream, like the saga that is, you've done all you need to do. The rest will be taken care of. So investigate these concepts we have about ourselves. How does it come about? Well, you can't remember your birth. When did you begin? Your father. Or your mother. Or the other patterns, vibrating patterns of energy. It's a fuse with intelligence. Innately knowing. We call them human beings. Call yourself human being.

You call God the supreme being if you believe in God. Take away the word supreme. The label. Take away the label human. And try and separate the beingness. Try and negate the knowingness that you are. That beingness, that loving to be. but you can't. So all that's happened to us, we've bound ourselves in the bondage of concepts or words, ideas and images. And Shakespeare told you that nothing can trouble you. Well, there's nothing either good or bad, except thinking makes it so. And have a look at that. Can you say it's good or bad without a thought? And what is it without a thought? If you're just seeing things as it is, it's not from...

It tells you the same thing, nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. We'll break that word or label, imagination, down to image in. Image in. And see that we are creating conceptual or mental images. Well, we're not creating them because they don't last. We're forming them. Have a look in the mirror, and all you'll see in the mirror is reflections or images. Now, you can't say they're not there. But go up to a mirror. Try and grab an image out of the mirror. You can't. So you can't say it is there. Though it appears to be there, you can't say it is because you can't grab it.

There's nothing there. You can't say it's not there because it still appears to be there. So everything is and is not. It is in its actuality, in its reality, which is its pure essence. But it is not as it appears to be. And this manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. They call it in the dictionary, some of the traditions, a phenomenal manifestation. A manifestation made up of phenomena. And look up your dictionary definition of phenomena and the definition of phenomena, that which appears to be. So whether you believe it or not, it's still only appearance. It appears to be so, this phenomena. Looks solid and substantial to the thing that's looking at it.

The body-mind seeming solid and substantial. But break them down and see. Put them under a microscope and see how solid this body is. See what it's made up of. It's made up of elements. Earth, air, fire, water, space. Those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles, neutrons, protons, electrons, whatever. And they can be broken down into pure energy. So that's all this manifestation. It's a vibrating pattern of energy. Like as I said before, the intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing. And energy is an activity. It's a movement. So it's the activity of knowing. And that movement is a vibration. And a vibration is a spontaneous vibration.

It's only a somewhat of a movement. Or a spanda, or soma they call it in some of the scriptures. Spanda means it doesn't have any beginning, doesn't have any end. It's a throb or a pulsation or a somewhat of a movement. They try to explain it. So that's why this manifestation is spontaneous. It's got no duration to it. We think it lasts billions of light years away. And that's why a big bang is a big bang. It's a big bang. It has no end cause at all. It's not 70 millions of light years. But it didn't. How could it? It hasn't got any duration. Time is duration.

Want to say something? Want to say something? No, light years is a distance. It's not a time. Hm? Yeah, you just go on. Yeah. We have some questions. All right. That'll do. To start. There's quite a few of them. Hello everyone. We've got Rohan. Rohan is saying, Bob says nobody wants to be no thing. Everyone's taught from a young age that they have to be something, such a burden. Well said Rohan, says Judith. And whatever is that, it is always present and aware. That's Hayman. Yeah, that's a good question, good answer also, because there were a couple of questions from Tanya. The idea of being a body seems to be hard to see as false.

Thoughts of judgment about the body still show up occasionally. I know the world, the world is not the real, so the judgment thought is not true or real. Not sure what my question is. Maybe the judging thoughts will always appear. I'm not creating these thoughts, and the thought is not separate from intelligence energy. You know, you're right. You see it as false, you know it's the pattern, the body is not false, it's the pattern through which it expresses. But as a body as something separate, it's no more solid than anything else, how it appears to be. She was saying the idea of being identified as a body.

Yeah. And then... Well, like I was saying, use it as a tool through which that life is expressing. If you didn't have a body or a mind, what's it going to express through? Yeah. It's true. It stays in the absolute, so the absolute enables all these different pattern shapes and forms to appear, to seem to be, to express and know itself, express itself. But none of it has any substance when it's broken, when it's looked into. Put it under a microscope and see. Yeah, also what Heyman was just saying, that there is always presence. So this is actually nice. I remember you were using the...

I remember you were using the example also, what has always been there? How do you know that, you know, when you were a child, the body was different, the body was small. But did your sense of presence was small because the body was small? No, you were there as much as always. You are there in your dream when you are interacting with the world that you are dreaming in the sleep. And the body is lying down on bed. Also the body... I have friends who lost their legs. And that sense of presence or the sense of being there didn't diminish. The body is like you are not the sum total of your limbs.

Because if you lose the limbs, you still are your existence, your presence. It's the same. Like the fellow that was in an accident and had his arms taken off. When he comes to, he's in the hospital there, he says, my legs, my legs, I can't feel my legs. His arms had no arms to feel them with. He had legs but no arms. Yes, Rohan also answered to Tanya. It is funny, I also have some old habits like that show up. And there is some seeming concern about them. What gets me out of it, out is to see who is it that has the thought. And in recognizing that there is no thinker there, the concern drops off.

Only a thinker. Can be concerned with the thought. Yeah, because the question was really about the judgment thoughts coming up. And yeah, who cares? That's the answer Rohan was actually giving. It's formed. Like we, as these body-minds, we form tools to utilize. Yeah. Knife and fork, chopsticks or something like that. Spanner or wrenches and things like that. They utilize that. They're not us or where, but they're very useful instruments. So that night intelligence has formed bodies and trees and flowers to express through. Instruments to which you'd use. It's a costume. It's a funny dress. Tanya says, if you don't believe or take on the idea that you have to be something, there is no problem.

And you may see you are no thing. Thanks Rohan. Yeah, Rohan was saying about the burden of being something when you were mentioning that you are no thing. Yeah, we'll be everything. The opposite of no thing is everything. Which stand are you going to take? Yeah. Tanya says, laughing, oh wow, it doesn't matter what thought shows up. Thoughts have no power. Life, intelligence, energy is the power. Exactly. The thoughts are not referring to anyone. No center or reference point can be found. Laughing out loud. Who are the thoughts talking to? Must be talking to other thoughts. Laughing. The thoughts are starting to be seen as laughable.

Yes. Yeah, good, yeah. Beautiful. So when somebody calls you a bad night, now you can know it's laughable, they can laugh at it. Yeah, yeah. Somebody accusing you of horrible motivation. Well, you laugh. You laugh at poor people with their horrifying projections. You feel sorry for their projections because they're obviously talking about projecting out their own selves. So yeah, laughable. I don't know if that one is refreshing properly again. And Tanya says, thank you for sharing, Rohan. That is helpful. Thank you. And actually, there is naturally the question, who is it? Who is it that has the thought or similar question appearing after a body identification thoughts?

The concern definitely drops off. Yes, exactly. Great way of putting that. There is no thinker. Just thought appearing. Doesn't matter what the thought is saying. And Donna says, a friend of mine wanted to hear what Bob had to say about this. He asked, if there's something wrong with Bob. She said, is the seer are different from what is seen? Is the hearer different from what is being heard? Is the perceiver different from what is being perceived? Thanks for your answer, Bob and Kat. You want to comment on that? Seer is what? Is the seer different from the seen? From? From what is seen. You know, because the seeing is happening.

On one end of the stick you have seer. On the other one you have the seen. No, there's only the seeing. there's only the seeing. Yeah. And the seer and the seen appear in the seeing. But when we say I see, we've divided it into a subject, a seer. And the seeing becomes the object. And when you look at it that way, from that point of view, subject and object are dualism. But can there be a seer without seeing? There can't be. Can there be the seen without seeing? So seeing is all there is. It's the same as thinking, the thinker and the thought. There can't be a thinker without thinking.

There can't be the thought. So the two appearances in the seeing or in the thinking, two different, might be the semi-subject-object, that's when the mind comes into it. Without the mind, what is there is still only pure seeing. Yeah. And to answer it just in one word, everything that is manifesting is unique. Uniquely different. Yeah. Every part of the manifestation, like the seeing or capacity of seeing, or space of seeing, is unmanifested. And then the manifestation of the seer and the manifestation of the seen and the manifestation of the hearer and the heard and the fingerprints and the eyes and the snowflakes and the blades of grass and every single piece of manifestation that seems so separate is also uniquely different.

It's almost as if that infinite creative power, does not repeat itself. So if there is the appearance of the seer and the appearance of the seen, the manifestation is not repeating itself. They will not be appearing as the same thing, even in the mirror. They won't be the same because they will be, you know, polarized or they will be reflected in a way. So every single thing that appears as a phenomenon is uniquely different. The question is, are we going to dwell in phenomenon or are we going to go to the source of all phenomenon? Because discussing which tree is bigger or better or is the seer bigger or better than the seen, you know, obviously, the question is actually quite strange because referring to the experience, the seen is constantly changing.

The seen is never the same because all the atoms are being replaced. The seen is never the same because all the atoms are being replaced. And there is a movement going on and there is transience going on. So it would say that the seer is also changing. And yes, the assumption is correct, but is it changing the same way? Nothing is the same. Not two things in the manifestation are the same. But again, this is irrelevant really. What we are focusing on is not the duality of the seer-seen, but a coming back to the non-duality of pure being, I am, the process of seeing, functioning, being.

There is a beautiful saying in, I forget which one of the texts it is, in something, I forget now, seeing no thing, yet it is seen. So all this manifestation, as we said, pointed out earlier, is no thing. We are actually seeing no thing, yet we see it in all the patterns, shapes and forms it is appearing in, but not missing out on the truth of it. And that is what happened when we were kids. When we started to learn words. Our parents didn't understand it, so instead of telling us to look in and see that you are the totality, you are the absolute, they said, look out there and acquire, accumulate, add to and amass whatever you can.

So we learnt these words and tried to hang on to them and build, get a more, better job, more wealth, a good relationship, do all these different things, you know, keep acquiring and amassing. But you are accumulating and you never got enough from that work. You are never out of the, always in the problem. But if you are seeing, recognising it all as no thing, and you are that essence itself, you know, it takes its proper place. And that is another even better answer, I would say, for Donna's friend who was asking it, what you just said, everything is no thing. So in the manifestation it is uniquely different, but in the essence it is one and the same.

It is not even one and the same in essence, because it is one. So the sameness suggests that there is two identical things. It is not two, it is one. So the seer and the seen are only conceptually, only in the imagination, they are made to be two. In reality they are no two. They are both same in essence, which is same both, the no thing. And that no thing in the filtering of the computer, in the imagination, the projector here, they become two things, hearer and heard, even though it is just one vibrating life. That is a nice question to ponder upon. It has many angles, as everything.

It can be addressed from various angles. I think, oh, there was Amarnath says, seer and seen are divided by phenomenal by mind appearance as a veil of non-dual awareness, separation is lost on investigation. Beautiful, Amarnath. Yes, that is a nice simple answer. And I think there was Donna's answer, this was my answer. There is no one who is the seer, the hearer, the perceiver. There is simply seeing, hearing, perceiving. And as with everything, they are simply arising from nowhere. The mind divides it into seer and seen. Notice if there is actually a person there that is experiencing any of this. Yeah, beautiful. And when you say nowhere, swap that around.

Take the W off the where and put it on the NO, then you've got now here. So it's always appearing now here, not nowhere. Heyman says that which is aware of body reminds aware after body, eaten by a great white shark. That which is aware of body remains aware after body eaten by great white shark. The great white shark gets a bit more intelligent. John David, if anyone is new that is watching, please don't be afraid to ask questions as you are with a very loving family here. Thank you, John. Yes, please don't be afraid to ask questions. And some of the questions are answering themselves coming up and that's beautiful too.

It is beautiful, yes, because I didn't disturb you when you were having a spiel. Some questions came up and some answers came up. And... Yeah, I'm just filling in time with the spiel. You're filling in time, okay. What a wonderful instrument the body is, Tanya says. Yes. Yeah, amazing. It shows that there is an amazing intelligence functioning in this so-called phenomenal world. Yeah. Nothing really matters. There is no such thing as actuality. Yeah, we just define things by putting labels on them and believing them into existence. If you don't put any labels, like, it's just... You can't put anything at all onto the absolute or take anything away from it.

Yeah. Always and ever that. Oh, that's a nice one. Heyman says, you can only misunderstand the life. You can never understand it. Hmm. Hmm. There is no one there to understand it, Rohan says. Yeah, that's precisely so. And Tanya says, oh, no, we've seen this one. Yeah, it's funny how this phone is jumping around. Heyman, in this game of life, there are only winners and winning. There is no losing or losing. You can not take anything from this. This literally doesn't give a damn at all. Yeah, even the concepts of winning and losing are just part of the play. Great answers about seer and sin, Jessie says.

Thank you so much, Bob and Kat. What a wonderful instrument the body is, that's Tanya. Nothing really matters. There's no such thing as a seer and sin. There's no such thing as actuality. I think I'm reading it back again. Whatever is that, it is always present and aware. That was Heyman. Yeah, it just gives me all different times. Okay, Gad Potter. I feel myself insensitive and not connected to the heart and absorbed in the mind with concepts turned into beliefs, with habits, with inconfortableness, as if I am wasting my time. I'm wasting my time in my mind. Yeah, that's what's dividing it. Seeming divided, it's only the mind that's dividing it.

Yeah. Yeah, it's nice to be aware of it though. But also you've got to be aware of that subtle comparison going on here. Because if you say you feel insensitive, is it comparing to what? The other times in your life when you were more sensitive? Or other people that you imagined that are more sensitive? This is just an aspect because it is nice to have the recognition that you feel that you are watching from all that interpreting machinery. Sensitivity or sensations, they're feelings. Yes. He feels what he feels. Yeah. Let the feeling be. It will move on. Without just grasping onto it and saying it's a good feeling or a bad feeling.

Yeah. So say when we label our old sensations and carry on with that same old label, instead of knowing that they're constantly transient, seeing them fresh and new every moment. Also I think the fact that, as you say, there is discomfort perhaps with wasting your time by being in the mind. That causes a suffering. That suffering sometimes is really necessary for the shift to happen. Because if you see you are in the mind, you see it cuts you off from the heart, you feel that you're wasting your life. This is the point where you may find a motivation to put your attention elsewhere. To put your attention more into the sensory world, into the sounds that you are hearing.

And now it's quiet, it's nothing happening. Well, check. If you could actually select out three or four or five different sounds right now out of the environment, you will be surprised how much is going on and we don't put any attention on it. And when the attention is divided, holding up in space all the different sounds, there's not that much attention left for the commentary and the thinking. And as you open up yourself to that space of sounds, you may open up yourself to the sensations. Perhaps on the back, you know, the jumper or the head, or maybe tensions in the body, or maybe even the breathing.

Or maybe even seeing what is being seen. Maybe the smells are present. Anything that is happening through that channels, the sensations, will be happening presently. And if the attention is divided between that seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, it is less of it available for the thinking. Then you are more grounded in the present moment, less in the conceptualizing. That's already a relief from that suffering. And over time, it may develop to a love affair with the presence because not only is there a relief there, but it is a joy, a natural joy, because the relaxation comes from not regurgitating that story of dissatisfaction and lack and incompleteness.

So that everything is there. And I think life is already resolving, so if there is a dissatisfaction and recognition of being in the mind, that's the time where inspiration may show up, to actually experiment with that presence available all the time. Not that you are going to be doing it, it's just the openness that life creates by the tension. Most people are projectors of life with their beliefs. Very few people are receivers of life. We call them awakened ones. That's Heyman. Most people are projectors of life. Yeah, the projecting process is happening in the commentary. And I don't know if you can stop it in any ways, because that's part of the makeup of the functioning.

But the main point is, never mind what most people are doing, we've got to grasp this ourselves, because nobody can do it for us. That's true. Yeah, also, as you say, when you receive life and the projection shows up, you project someone's intentions, or perhaps you project your own expectations or whatever, you see that pattern coming up as well. So life shows up and interpretation shows up. The interpretation may show up and be recognized, or it may show up and be taken for granted, as the solid reality. So, yeah, this is the most important thing, yes. Stop comparing. Stop generalizing. It's not necessary. It's confusing and it's intellectual.

It's the head stuff. Yeah. Everything, leave everything just as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. And I don't mean, when I say stop comparing, I don't mean that you are the doer and you can stop it. It's again something that comes up which may inspire you to realize that this habit pattern of comparing comes up often and it is to be recognized. Just recognize it's all in one. Yes. It's always, always and ever that oneness. Mm-hmm. Nothing excluded. Yes. If you wake up to the oneness or not, it is just similar. That's Hayman. Yep. Yeah, if you wake up to the oneness or not, it is just similar.

Yeah, waking up to the oneness is realizing that there is no one to wake up. When there is no one to wake up. And nothing to wake up to. Exactly. Yeah. That resolves itself. It doesn't matter then. Everything is perfect and resolved in the unborn mind. Yes. That's the mind without thoughts, is the unborn mind. Mm. Hayman says, In order to remain alive, there is no need for the body. In order to remain alive, there is no need for the body. But you don't know anything about it if you haven't got the body to express through. There's only life. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, there is only life.

In some places, it has the bodies. In some other places, it doesn't have the bodies. The bodies of trees, the bodies of bacteria, or the bodies of light particles, or no bodies. Like, yeah. It's who is to remain alive? There is really no one who is alive. There is just life. And now Tanya says, Laughing out loud. Oh, wow. It doesn't matter what's going on. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am.

I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. It doesn't matter what의 생각 shows up. I think we must have read that one. Thoughts have no power. Life Intelligence energy is the power. The thoughts are not referring to anyone. No center or reference point. Yeah. This telephone is just doing fun. I think it's just showing me very very different comments of different times. I'll just try and see. Different setting. Okay. They have better now. Heyman says, David, I love the analogy Nisargadatta uses about the forest. Imagine a thick jungle full of heavy timber. A plank is shaped out of the timber and a small pencil to write on it.

The witness reads the writing and knows that while the pencil and the plank are distantly related to the jungle, the writing has nothing to do with it. It is totally superimposed and its disappearance just does not matter. The dissolution of personality is followed always by the sense of great relief as if a heavy burden has fallen off. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, the writing disappears. Heyman, when you are able to see everything as it is, you are enlightened. And again, there is no you to see everything as it is. There is no you to see everything as it is. There is no you to see everything as it is.

Things are just. Yeah, cognizing emptiness is cognizing. Amarnath, field of awareness as complete awareness felt without personality. Brad, I still get very upset, disgust, and sad when I hear new stories about child abuse. In such cases, it is natural to be angered. I imagine harming the abusers. thoughts arise naturally to me. Yes, they do to me. They're like a button. I would not be very happy if I heard about the tragedy or drama or child abuse and I felt elated, honestly. Yeah, it's kind of spooky. I mean, it's natural to feel. We do respond to the stories, but if you saw the child abuse happening in front of your eyes, you probably wouldn't be having time to get upset.

You would be probably finding yourself in action. And Bradley, what is it that is cognizing these thoughts? What substance do the thoughts have? Where are these thoughts appearing? Only you can investigate your mind. Yeah, that's a good point. It's a beautiful point, actually. Even what Bradley was answering to Brad. Use even your upset thoughts, which I would say are socially healthy and desirable, but you can still use them to actually investigate where do they come from? What are they? What's the substance of it? And what is presently now? Because the history, the story of child abuse is causing the response, causing the reaction. But is it really what's happening?

What can be done about it? And how can that be used? That's a nice... Well, most of the... All the egos there, most of the problems with the ego are for self-gratification. There's no self-centred, no ego to gratify. A lot of this stuff is going to drop off. And you're left with life, being, knowing and loving to be. Love all of it or none of it. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Heyman, science and scientists will never know. Will never know the truth. Who knows? Who knows? They may stop being science, scientists. And just intelligence energy does not exclude educated people. It just comes, it opens up whichever channel.

But I know what he means. I know what you mean, Heyman. That the methodical way of examining awareness as an object, which is not an object. That's why it's important. That's why it's important that you know yourself. You are the truth. Yeah. And as you answer before, don't worry about others. Really. I mean, there are no others. You're dreaming them. Don't... Yeah, scientists or other people or... Yeah, that's exciting, isn't it? To actually just go into the theory and into the ideas. Jane, everything is an opportunity to watch. Disease happen when there is a resistance. To what is. Yeah. That which set up Kat's phone software wasn't fully present and aware.

Yeah. Who said that? How do you know? Who said that? Heyman. That which set up Kat's phone software wasn't fully present and aware. Yeah, because it's probably... It's not wrong, probably, is it? Yeah, yeah. It is... Well, I guess there are three different settings of how are the conditions. Yeah. I was thinking of how are the comments displayed and I wanted to have them all and they just start jumping around. Yeah, but yeah, maybe it's just a bug or maybe it is whatever. It's good to not know. If anyone is new that is watching, please don't be afraid to ask questions. That was John David.

Yes, we read about before and please don't. Heyman commented and now, okay. I am body of nobody. I am body of nobody, Heyman says, or nobody is in my body. Yeah, it's not even your body. Yeah, I think we are... I'll have a look on the phone if there is anything else. Heyman says, Bob Marley was right. Don't worry, be happy. Motion is an illusion in the great stillness. It is a tool. Neil says, awareness would remain awareness without the body, but without that story. There is only this, says Heyman, that which is stable, identified as that which is moving. The just not tool. There is no you, yet there is only you.

That's Heyman. Why is that? Yeah, this telephone is few minutes behind. Amarnath says, replying, hey. Amarnath says, replying to Heyman, Nisargadatta Maharaj said body is just thought, sensation, perception only. We are without thought, like in deep sleep, in wakefulness too. Thus, I am learning to question everything that I assumed was true, including the I that assumed. Thank you. Thanks to you, dear Bob. Love you forever. Amarnath. Oh no, we've seen this one. Oh yes, Amarnath. Nisargadatta Maharaj said thoughts appearing in universal awareness for consciousness, not for the self-center. Beautiful. And now Rohan, there was a question from Chris Gage before that must not have showed up.

Can you clarify how the idea of karma fits in? The notion of good and bad and even karma must be conceptual and this is not real, right? Thank you, Rohan. Yes, it didn't show up. Yes, so can you explain, Bob? Well, karma is so-called cause and effect. It can't be an effect if you're not relating to a cause. And we got the idea that karma, about karma, is not a cause and effect. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept.

It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a... It's a concept. A concept. A concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a concept. It's a... You're smokescreen. How do you... How do you do a thing that's stressed out? A done and done-thing that water in the water? A done doing-thing in the water? Yes. Oh, this is very worrying. In terms of knee pain. Yeah. Yes, it shows you have no different abilities and you feel very better. No? No. Okay, you feel the liquid coming and going. Yes? Yes, absolutely. So that's a good quality too. so it's not real yeah the idea of good and bad Shakespeare has addressed well nothing's good and bad or bad but thinking makes it so what's good for the canary is not good for the all and the opposite Bob had a little bird when he was living in the farm and he forgot to bring it home because it used to hang out on the on the branch of a tree for the day and seeing his heart out and he left it for the night and all ate it and this was of course very good for the owl and very bad for the canary that's the idea of good and bad I like that illustration he's got a few more so yes the idea of good and evil you know even the terrible things that are happening right now may be horrible for humanity and wonderful for the planet who knows I mean there is everything depends on the perspective and if we assume the individual perspective then of course my mind is good for me or if my country win this is good but how about the others that is the that is the self-centered playing out again there's one it's the one essence expulsing through everything as everything what's lost what's going what's lost and I like to look at the idea of karma as something that creates and regurgitates the habit so if you do something bad you will habitually be more likely to do something bad again let's say if you steal something then you steal an apple from the garden of your neighbor and you kind of compromise your values then the next time you steal it will be easier or you cheat and the next time will be easier that's karma it's not that you're gonna be punished for your bad deeds is that you're gonna have much more ease in that habit pattern is gonna be much more easy to play out in a way that eventually takes you into that different place in life we put two labels on cause-effect what is it just a vibrating pattern of energy yeah just life Amarnath dream should be present for karma but there is no dreamer available to have reality and Haman loves Canary singing don't give a damn about others they don't exist Haman and Amarnath replying to Haman we are universal love itself not the lover or beloved Haman says there is just not two there is no you yet there is only you yeah I don't see anything more on the phone Haman in order to be lover you have to become beloved that is Rumi love is life life is love a love of being Ruth Rosa says hi and many other people said hi I didn't read all the welcome messages and Bill says that is Haman everything and the nothing John Davey ever since a happiness heard your name it has been running through the streets trying to find you that's Hapi Atul it is not even perceiving perception is happening in it and it is you, Muji.

Tanya, the thought came up about how to get my daughter to get ready for school quickly and then, oh gosh, the thought she is not the doer, not separate entity, intelligence energy appearing as little girl who doesn't like to get dressed for school and hates having her hair done, laughing out loud. Don't think there is actually a problem with that appearance. Only thought says there is a problem. Wow. All people know the way, but few walk it. That's Heyman. Atul, if by the wonderful weapon of self-inquiry you would continue destroying one by one all the innumerable foes, the vasanas rising in the form of thought, and when each of them comes out of the, comes out of the fort, Chitam, the enemy's fort will be finally in your hands.

Ramana Maharshi. I'm going to sleep. Yeah, I see. I would just add that it's a beautiful quote, but just recognize how self-inquiry is not done by you because it kind of feels like, okay, I will be doing it diligently. And it feels this way quite often. And it's not just a question of, oh, I'm going to sleep. It's a question of, oh, I'm going to do it. And it's okay. It's just appears this way, but it arises out of nowhere because everything does, because there is no you to make it, to do it. So where even arises, good on you. Even gets inspired by instruction.

Yeah, that's fortunate too. And it's just, as it is, what it is. We can finish earlier if there is no questions. Yeah. Bob has a birthday. He's going to be in a couple of days. So you can wish him happy birthday. Or you can join us on Zoom on the birthday day, on Tuesday night, which is going to be, yeah, it's still going to be Tuesday in America, isn't it? I'm not sure. Everybody's going along pretty well with the sound of it. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like they are rather beautiful insights than the burning questions. Which is keep recognizing. Yeah. Reminding. And re-cognizing. Yeah. You are the, like there was Atul, I think he says, there's no perceiving.

It's not no perception, just perceiving. That was a quote from Muji. Yes, you are that perceiving. You are the space of hearing, of seeing, of tasting, touching. The I-N-G on it just comes from saying seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is going on, functioning spontaneously. As soon as you bring it to the audience. I, into what I see, I perceive, I experience. You form the subject, you form, that's the beginning of duality. Seeming duality. Yes. There's no such thing, never was, never will be. But they've taken on the belief, unquestioned belief. So are you the consciousness in the body? Or are you the body in the consciousness?

Yeah. You are the consciousness. And within you, the body was growing. so that you can see, hear, taste, touch, smell. You are the consciousness giving itself a means, giving itself a senses to experience the dream as solid, to experience itself as other. This is a ride, this is an amazing ride. You are the totality, the consciousness. You wear the costume like you have the glasses or binoculars or you have this analogy of reasoning capacity. People have no capacity of flying naturally, but they have capacity of building airplanes. So you don't say, I'm airplane. No, you have the airplane that makes you fly. You have the body that makes you see, hear, taste, touch.

That's the consciousness giving itself a means of experiencing and expressing. I see if there is something more. Like a moss to a flame, says Paz. Happy birthday, the unborn. Oh, you've got some happy birthday, advance happy birthday wishes. Plenty of them. There is no inquirer or what's to be inquired, Amarnath says. Atul, here is no difference between embodied and bodiless. To the supreme, the subtle and gross states are the same. The supreme is the same, whether it's named or unnamed. Why lament then, O mind? I'm the same self in all, avadhut gita. Yeah, that was very good. Yes. And then more birthday wishes. You will read them all.

Nothing is wrong. Thank you for the reminder to full stop. That was Tanya answering to Megan. And Nick says, hi again, Bob and Kat. Nonetheless, I often find actions, and rebellion arising spontaneously, say against the horrors and injustice inflicted upon humanity. But I find that as long as there is no personal ownership, it is egoless. Atul, if by wonderful weapon of self-inquiry, I think we read that, to continue destroying, we read that question by Ramana Maharshi. I think I'd like to add, that there are some that which, you know, arising different motivations or angers or rebellions, and moving you to do something against the injustice happening to humanity.

I remember you giving an example of climate change movement, the pollution that humanity has created, and the humanity of life, true humanity, and the climate change movement, that the same life has created through the humanity. Some people get that very, very strong sense of guidance, and join that protest movement, or do some other things. It is the same life that is manifesting through those who destroy, and to those who try to save, and through everyone. Recognizing that life, how it resolves itself, how when you get out of the way, life will just move you. That's beautiful. And it doesn't mean that you will be passive in the face of injustice.

Quite the opposite. You may be moved to do something about it. Moved to defend or even harm, I don't know. I don't know. But without taking personal credit, and without a narrative of hate or unforgiveness, or righteousness, or that sort of making someone wrong, that's the difference. You can't forget the innocence of that same life, fueling people who do the injustice. They can't do any other way. They are just conditioned this way, and life created them this way. Even the people who do child abuse, or Bob abuse, they also, they can't, they don't know any better. One could say unconscious, but it's not really a right word, because there's no one there.

It's just patterns. A lot of more happy birthday wishes. A couple of more days. But, yeah, we'll not have big celebrations as usually. We'll not go to Sofia's with a bundle of friends, which is just times. We'll just have it this way. The health situation, and political situation, and all of it. But I'll make him a really, really nice cake. With all the goodies in it. When will you be having the Zoom party? What time? The Zoom party? I'm not quite sure if that's going to be a party. It's probably going to be a spiel again, and a question and answer session, because that's the best thing.

That's what Bob enjoys the most. But we may sing. We may sing at the beginning or the end of the meeting. And this is Tuesday night, Melbourne time. So it is 7.30 in Melbourne. What time is it going to be? I know that in Texas it's 4.30. I know it from Cavita. In the morning. So that's a little bit hard. And in Europe it's going to be like 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock. 7.30, 8 o'clock in the morning. So it's kind of more convenient. But yeah, that's the times that Bob always has for the last 30 years or so. Hmm. Sorry about today, but I'm not moved to talk.

Yeah, you did a good spiel. And I see there is... My daughter that passed away 12 years ago has the same birthday, 21st of July, like Bob. What a beautiful coincidence, says Tanya. Hmm. Hmm. Beautiful. More happy birthday and more happy birthday. Yes, Bob will read carefully and appreciate every single good morning message and love message and happy birthday message. Thank you. I'll just say that. There is no enquirer or what to be enquired. More wishes, more wishes, more wishes. Atul, to know that consciousness and its content are but reflections, changeful and transient, is the focusing of the real. The refusal to see the snake in a rope is the necessary condition for seeing a rope.

Hmm. Beautiful. Life is taking care of life. Exactly. Life lives on life. Out of life, more life comes. Judith replying to Tass, I never forgot that you taught me what you taught me when I was worried on how to get somewhere. You said, just go left, right, left, right, and you will get there. And Bill, yes, it's meant to be the way it is. And happy birthday from Brazil. And Judith will definitely be singing on Zoom. Thank you, Judith. And Tanya, thank you so much, Bob and Kat. And thank you, Rohan and Megan, sending so much love. Glad to hear you will be having lots of yummy goodies on your birthday, Bob.

I know you will have an amazing day. Every day is amazing. It doesn't mean if you don't feel moved to talk, Bob. It doesn't matter if you don't feel moved to talk. Instead of moving downstream with the mind by connecting to an object that you experience, move upstream to find the source. Don't go with the flow. Go in the opposite direction. Upstream. Instead of, oh yeah, that is from Papaji. Love gratitude. Yes, I'll just say that all the instructions that are given, go downstream, go upstream, go with the flow, go against the flow, are to inspire for whatever is going to resonate within you. Because Papaji was very, very clear that there is no one who can follow instructions.

It's just resonance. Some people would resonate with the go downstream. And what it means for them, only they can say. Some people will resonate with go upstream. And what it means, again, only they can say. So the words are only tools. Like Rahman Maharshi was saying about the, the thorn, the words or thoughts are thorn, which may be used to remove the other thorn. Like the who am I inquire is to remove the I. And yeah, that's, we've got another one from Paz. Private. This we read. I'll have to have a check if there is something here. Because this one takes like three or four minutes to refresh.

And no, there is nothing. Yeah, we can wrap it up if you like. Yeah, Johnny. Yes, so thank you everyone. I'm going to. Yeah, thank you everybody. Yeah, we're going to, as Tanya says, every day is a wonderful day. So we're going to have a wonderful day. And having birthday just by ourselves, it would be nice if any of you can join us on Zoom and sing. But it would be nice for us because Bob is perfectly happy. He's just being home with us. And thank you all for your input. It's good to hear because it shows it working in everybody. Yes. If we get out of the road and let it happen, it happens.

And it's beautiful when the questions are asked and they are answered by some of you within the group before I even have the chance to read it to Bob. Or the answer comes up from the same source from which the question came. Glad to see you, Bradley. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, Tess is another Tessie. Yeah. And also Tess. Yes. And others. Mm-hmm. Love you all. Love you all. I see one more comment which says, When the supreme reality is not understood, the study of scriptures is useless. And the study of scriptures is useless when the supreme reality has been understood. Yeah. Adi Shankara. Good one.

That's a good one to end it. Thank you.