Sailor Bob, Kat - nonduality. 12 July 2020

Good morning everyone. Good morning. Thank you. Same old thing we talked about one time, and we talked about the same thing all the time. We don't even listen to any time. That's all we listen to. We don't even want to listen to any time. And most of us go off on a tangent, thinking there is time, and there is something to apply, to get. And the stories carry on and on and on. Mind is relative. Mind is a soul. Without a second. Without a second. Which means there is not even one. It is the simplest thing in the world, in the universe. The one God, the one essence, the one life.

The soul. S-I-U-L, S-O-L-E, or the only O-N-L-Y. Or put an L in front of that. Put an L in front of that. It's the LONE. It all points to the One. And when it's investigated, it's seen. And they say, they tell you that. The people that have understood or grasped or recognised, so-called people, who recognise, will point, will point toward it. So, it needs to be recognised by the soul. It needs to be recognised by each and every thing that seemingly other or doesn't recognise it at the moment. And the Buddha told us of that. But he calls it a cognising emptiness. We think, we, as these so-called humans, these so-called persons, are cognising or knowing the emptiness.

But it's not that we are at all. Because the we, the human being, is the soul. The we, the you and I, and every pattern, shape and form, are all things. All things, different patterns, shapes and forms, are appearing in that emptiness which is suffused with the cognition or the knowing. It's the emptiness that's cognising. And the Buddha put it quite simply when he said, the emptiness is form. I don't know whether there was a Buddha or whether there wasn't. Especially in many of the texts, it's the same as they will use the term still. Emptiness is form, meaning that it's that emptiness which is cognising or knowing and expressing, patterning, shaping as all these forms.

The you and I, the tree, the flower, the sky, the space, are all forms or things. And they point out again. That there is no thing. And we say that in a quick way, we say nothing. Put it together and we think that nothing is a vacuum or a void. And we won't notice or know these things. But that's what it means though. There's no thing. And every pattern, shape and form is a thing. The chair is a thing. The table is a thing. You are a thing. The flower is a thing. All things. And what label discriminates them from the totality is the labels we put on them.

Since these are all no thing, or the one, there's some superior in there. We put different labels or words in them. And it's discriminated into the ten thousand. That's just a rough algorithm of what they call the ten thousand things. But the ten thousand things are all no thing appearing as other. And the discrimination is the word. It's doing. It's discriminating the tree from a flower. Or a plant. Or a dog from a cat. Or one animal being from another. We're putting different labels on them. Now where do these labels come from? Words. Sound. Aren't they? Every word you speak, isn't it a sound? Yes.

What's a sound? Sound is a sound of vibration. Yes. And isn't a vibration a movement? Or a movement of energy? Yes. Or an activity? And that activity, or that energy, is what I call intelligence energy. I don't use the term God, because God's just a word or a label. Because look at the different traditions and the different languages. How many different words have they got for the God? The name of God. But the name or the label or the tag on it is not what it is. Duality means one without a second, not two. And pointing out again that it's all one. And so, and they can't be other.

Without the one. They can't be the one without the other. Yes. So though they're peering and vibrating and patterning in the interrelated opposites, they are not. It's all, I use the term, no one-ended stick. Like every stick you've got, no matter how small you make it, will have two ends on it. But it's still the same stick. Yes. still the same essence that's vibrating in a pattern, shapes and form. Like the North Pole or South Pole. Can you separate them? They're still the same essence. And where do they meet? At the equator. At the equanimous. But it's all the one essence appearing and expressing as everything.

And what do they call it? They call it that. That's the great mantle or the label. I am that. You are that. This is that. Everything is that innately we know. Because you say that's the chair, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's you, that's me. We know it's all that essence appearing as others. But other things that we've labelled. Where it tells you in the middle of the world, in the middle of the world, in the middle of the world, in the middle of the world, in the middle of the world. In the beginning of the world. In the beginning was the word. The word was with God.

The word was God. That's all that God is. There's a label we put on. A word we put on. The absolute. The absolute one essence, that's patterning, shaping and forming as everything. It is absolute. Totality. Complete. And utterly. Total. Undivided. In Buddhism they call it the great perfections. The great perfections is the same. What can you add to the perfect? What can you take away from the perfect? Would it be perfect if you could add something to it? It wouldn't be. Would it be perfect if you could take something away from it? That's the same with the absolute. Would it be absolute? So nothing can be added to it.

Nothing can be taken away. And how comes it's so many separate? Well it is. Not recognised and it's a true nature. It's recognised in the vibrating patterns in which it expresses. And those patterns are vibrating in an intelligent way. A tree is an intelligent matter. A flower is another intelligence matter. This body with all its nerves, sinews, heart, lungs, everything is an intelligent matter. Everything. Trees, the planets, the planets, the planets, the stars are all vibrating in an intelligent way. So I call it, instead of using the term God, which is a label, I put another label. Intelligence energy. Intelligence is not your intellect. Because there are different degrees of intellect.

Some of you, a lot of you will be a lot smarter than I am. Some of you mightn't be quite so smart. But it's all, that's what the intellect is. The conceptual image we have of how smart we are. But intelligence is the activity of knowing. Look out there in nature and you'll understand. All that appearance is a pattern of intelligence. For the space, the emptiness, the sky, the sea, the clouds, the continents, the islands, all are vibrating in intelligence. And intelligence shapes the form. Some of the vibrations might seem more static than others, but everything breaks down and changes. If you put that concept of time on it.

But if you see the concept of time, it's just another concept. There is actually no duration, no time. It's all a spontaneous function. All happening, ever fresh, and ever alive. And it's all happening in the same time. And the mind is ever present. Ever present. And the immediacy. Ever present. Presence awareness. Intelligent energy. The activity of knowing. And see that this pattern you call you is suffused with an innate intelligence. That innate vibrating pattern. And the organs, the heart, the lungs, the brain, the sinews enable those patterns to vibrate in words, which we've learnt the labels for. And we can intelligence look into it, describe it, and all sorts of things with it.

But we think we, as the separate entities, the individual persons, are doing it. But it is innate intelligence that's doing it itself, innately. It means we know it already. Like if you ask, and you see that thinking is the problem. As Shakespeare told you, nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Now, so thoughts vibrate into words. Sensations. Thoughts, feeling and emotion. Vibrating in three different aspects of the vibration. Thoughts are very subtle. The thought can come up and you mightn't realise it's there for a little while. But it's there for a little while. Then they vibrate a little bit louder and a feeling will come up, or a sensation.

And this sensation we put the label on is anger, fear, happiness, depression, guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy. We label all these sensations, put names on them. And then that's been there long enough and that sensation will vibrate into emotions. Instead of it being the essence anymore, it's now become the physical. Because the emotion is felt in the body. Felt in the physical. You know what it is, the anger, the fear, the depression. Which you've labelled that. But we're putting a label which we've learnt about it, that was labelled years ago. Our parents might have told us that tantrum gets right. But it's not. That tantrum gets right or that actuality, that emotion, the seeming emotion is going, that one's fear.

Or you're angry. And instead of seeing it fresh and new and looking into it and investigating it ourselves, we've labelled that sensation forever after as fear or anger. So you see, you no wonder, see why it becomes troubling then. No wonder. Because we're labelling a dead sensation. It's expressing in a similar way, but it's always fresh and new. It's not the same old one. But we're putting the old label on it because it's patterned shapes and forms and expresses in the same way as that emotion. So we're putting it dead. We're living from a dead image. And that's why we can't keep up with life.

Because life is ever fresh, ever new. It's spontaneous. Life is love, the love of being, the joy of being. And when we've got the old label on it, we try to keep up. And because we can't keep up, we think, I've got to become. I've got to become one. I've got to become that person. I've got to get rid of this person. I've got to meditate and do all sorts of things to become, to acquire it, to get it. It's a pretty hard job, isn't it? How much success have you had of getting it? By going and doing all these activities? Or, have you might have resonated with something and relaxed into it and there it is.

It's there in the immediacy. Without the old label, fresh and new. And it might, you put another label on it, it might be very joyous. And it might be very happy. And it might be very wonderful. We put the old label on it, it's fear, anger, depression, guilt. And that's what they say about the oneness. It's non-dual. Some questions? Yeah, yeah, I've got a question. This is a question from Mukti. Are thoughts and emotions just part of the intelligent pattern? They just don't have an intelligence that is discernible sometimes? Yes. They're all, every thought is a vibration. Whether you see, recognise the intelligence in it or not.

It's a movement, a vibration of energy. And the amazing way it vibrates, as sound, as word, as things, as everything else implies, it is diffused with an intelligence. If there was no intelligence with it, what would it be? And we might recognise the sensations, but look into them, you'll know what they are. Yeah, she puts a wink on it, that the intelligence, that thoughts have intelligence that is discernible. And Tanya has two questions. Will resistance always show up when it seems there is no one here? And how will I know I have really seen there is no separate self? How will I know I'm living as the truth and not as an image?

You have any problems, fear or things become hard? You know all right, when there's a pain or something. The knowing is there. The innate intelligence diffusing that pattern is the knowingness or the awareness, if you like to call it. And what was the first part of it? Will the resistance always show up, even when it is not there? Yes. Even when it is seen there is no one here? Yes. If there wasn't its opposite, how could anything be cognised or known or recognised without its opposite? That's how the manifestation functions, day and night, winter and summer. Good and bad, pleasant and painful, happy, sad, love and hate.

When no discriminating thoughts arise, as it says in Hing Sing Ming, the old mind ceases to be. I'll add to it if you... Yes. Yes, so I would add to the... Ah, I had a thought about the resistance, but you've already answered it. Yeah. Well, the best way is to always look at nature, because animals don't have the image of themselves that they relate to. And do you see animal in resistance? It is fully enlightened. I mean, it doesn't need to be enlightened because it wasn't endarkened by the conceptual self. It is the conceptual self. Endarkened. So if you see that there is, let's say, the animals are fighting or they are in a stressful situation and the resistance comes up, it means it's natural.

So the resistance, whatever shows up is always natural. The story about it is also natural, but not necessary, because the story causes the suffering. And another one, when you see, how will I know? You won't because there won't be any YouTube. No. There is no need to know, but there won't be any doubts. The thing is, as long as there is a question, am I already enlightened or am I still an image or am I a nature or am I image? Who's asking the question? That already suggests that there is still some sort of a lingering, a relating going on. When there is no conceptual self, the question just doesn't arise.

I don't have questions. Am I this? Or am I that? Am I already that? No, it just It just doesn't, I have absolutely zero interest to find out what I am because I just am. It's no shape or form to me that needs to be somehow obtained or verified. How will you know? There is knowing now already. That's all there is, is knowing. Not anybody, not a person that's knowing. Because that's what it is, set, shit and and. Existence, consciousness, loving to be. Existence is being, consciousness is knowing or awareing if you like to use that term. And you love to be, it's already there.

There's already the knowing there but it's discriminated by the word. And day and night, that's darkness and light. Does darkness know anything about light? It doesn't. It doesn't because it is the absence of light. Does light know anything about darkness? It doesn't because it's the absence of darkness. Yeah, so that's a beautiful answer. I just reiterate it. You already know when you don't have a story. You already know that you are. When you want to know what you are or who you are, you're already back in the head. The knowing is there. Without the thought, the knowing is there. And your being also, you know.

You don't have to know what you are. You are who you are. You are pure being. Yes. Yeah, the being, absolutely. Without the story of who you are, you already are. You already are being. So when the question comes, am I this or am I that? Stop thinking. Pause the thought. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? And in that moment, you're back home. Which you never left. Which you never left, of course. Yeah, only conceptual. You can only imagine you are somewhere else. You can only imagine you are in the head or in the story. You're always here now. And then that statement of Nisargadatta comes true if you're imagining.

Because he says, nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. It's the imagination that's causing the problem. Yeah. Imaging it. Forming images of objects. Subjects, objects. Images. And all those images are reflections. You've got to have a reflecting surface. And what are they appearing on? The cognising emptiness. Which is, those forms are emptiness, but they are images. Reflections. Go back to your spiel. I see there is more questions. This one. Yes, there is. Yeah, my phone is not refreshing it, so that's it. Yes, I've got some more questions now. Yeah, funny way it works. So, one says, Heyman says, please notify that darkness is light.

Everything is one. Yeah, we only label it, divide it conceptually. The story is necessary for suffering. Heyman, yes, absolutely. Try and suffer without the story. Amarnath. Nisargadatta Maharaj said we were only love itself manifesting as many, but we were hating and loving some people. Yeah, it's all matter of frequency. You know, you resonate with some music and you don't resonate with another music because your pattern is kind of, it's part of nature. Animals have it too. And that's when you realise that you're loving and hating just patterns. There's nothing really there. Yeah, you're not even doing it. It's your body-mind doing it. You as the space-like awareness, you just hold space for it to happen.

And Luca. Hi Bob and Kat. Sometimes reading Nisargadatta, I get confused when he refers to the absolute state at prior to consciousness or prior to I am. Yes. Yes, it is. The absolute is another. Term you can use for it is awareness. Absolute is totality. Absolute, you can't add anything to it. Can't take anything away from it. But you can take all the appearances out of it and it's still the absolute. The appearances are only seemingly appearing in it. What was the question? Yeah, he gets confused when Nisargadatta talks about the absolute state prior to consciousness or prior to I am. Yeah. Well, what's there first?

Have a look at that. Are you unaware right now? No, you are aware. Now, consciousness appears in that awareness. Your consciousness is purely and simply existence. And that existence is totally aware that it exists. Now, onto that existence comes other patterns, shapes and forms. So they're all appearing on it. But the awareness or the absolute is the basic space or screen on which everything appears. And it's no thing that you can grasp with a concept because it would take itself out of the absolute if it did. That's why it forms all the patterns, shapes and forms to express through and puts words or labels in them to label and differentiate them.

Because being absolute is just like a pure mirror, if you like. And what can it do of itself? Nothing. Nothing. But it has the capacity of reflection. Reflecting in it. Though it does nothing to say, now I'm going to reflect or stop reflecting. It's nature or it's essence or whatever it is, ability is to reflect. If there wasn't vibrations or something like that, it wouldn't be able to reflect. Yeah. If there wasn't vibrations or seeming energy rippling around it or whatever you like to call it, or that seeming energy is moving but it's not really, it's just a sort of shimmering or subtle vibration. If that wasn't there, how could patterns form?

Yeah, that's a beautiful way of saying it. I think the confusion when listening to different descriptions is, is sometimes intentional. Because when you are confused, you're not trying to grasp it with your mind or you actually, you can't grasp it with your mind. You try to grasp it, what does he mean by that? And you can't. And you're confused. That's a good place to be. And what Bob was just saying, that basic screen on which the I am appears. If you can grasp the screen, okay, then step back and say the basic screen on which the screen appears. Always step back to any conceptual sort of trying to grasp it as a concept.

Step back on which that concept appears. The one that is prior to absolutely everything is the true nature or is the absolute. Prior to everything. And how would you do it? Well, you look in the mirror and take a cue from there. Go and try and grab an image out of the mirror or a reflection. You can't. Because all you'll do is grab the mirror. Another one. And then you must realise it's futile trying to get it through the reflection. Because the reflection doesn't exist. But the mirror is there completely, totally and always full of reflections. There's never any space in it without a reflection in it.

The mirror in this room, it looks like this big empty space. But it's still reflecting that empty space. That's a reflection. There's not a point in that glass without a reflection in it. It's got the reflecting back surface on it. Yes, so it is prior. Prior to everything. Prior to consciousness, prior to awareness, prior to mirror, basic screen. Prior. It's just prior to even any sort of concept. Because it's non-conceptual. So we limit it with words. It's absolutely perfect. As it is. And even though the patterns and the reflections or images that appear on it seem to break up that perfection. But they don't. They can never touch it.

Because they're all appearing in it. Yes, so Armanath says, why fear and desire doesn't disappear completely after self-realisation? Everything. Everything can still be there. And still only appearance. Who takes delivery of it? If there's someone that takes the delivery of it, it'll be a problem. But left as it is, like everything else, it's constantly changing. It's constantly changing. Left as it is, it'll move along. Something else will come up. Like it didn't stay a little baby forever. Gradually changed into a young boy or girl or youth. A young man or old man. And no, it's constantly changing. So fear, desire, all these things we label.

Take the idea of fear off, the label off, and desire off. What is it? See that sensation like every other sensation if you see it. Fresh and new. Without putting our label on it. Instead of seeing it as fear, this might be a sudden urge that you've got to do something about this. You've got to get out of it somewhere or other. And appropriate activity will take. Or I want this, or I don't want that. What actually does disappear in self-realisation is the judgement that fear and desire are wrong. When we believe that summer is good and winter is bad, or day is good and night is bad, light is good and darkness is bad, then of course we want the darkness to disappear, the winter to disappear.

But if you don't have the idea that there is anything wrong with fear and desire, they are welcome. Just like everything else. And they're impersonal. And if not for the fear, the body would probably die somewhere along the way. It's the survival instinct. And that was good when you said impersonal. If they are the personal, then that's when they become the problem. That's right. Because the separate entity, the individual, his desires has got to have this. Or wants it. Or I fear this. I've got to get away from it. But in its totality, what does the universe fear? When tsunamis are going on and planets are imploding and exploding and stars are falling out of the sky or doing whatever they're doing.

The chance is that without desire the body wouldn't last too long either. Because if you had no desire to eat, perhaps you could turn breatharian. But what if not? Yeah. It's just the only problem when we make it. Yes, part of the functioning. Yes. But impersonal, that's good. Stanley says the key is to stop thinking. You don't even have to stop thinking. It's just stop taking thoughts too seriously. Like they can still go on, but if nobody listens, it's like a radio in the background. It doesn't have to stop it. No vested interest in them. Not taken delivery of them. Yeah, just understand them for what they are.

They're just background noise. They're just commentary. Luca, could you say something about it? Could you say something about it? Which? Yeah, the it, the that. That? Yes. You can say all sorts of things about it. But none of it is going to be true. Or say nothing. It is everything and it is the no thing. It's absolute. Absolute. Is is a good term. Just as it is. Is meaning not was or not will be. But what is going on right in this immediacy. If you like to call this immediacy. You can't say that's a moment either. In this spontaneous, seeming activity. Which is expressing in this so-called moment.

Cliff says, morning Bob and Kat. I'll be with you here for a little while. Love to you both and all here now. Yes, all here now. Yeah, was that? Cliff. Hey man, last night I was swimming in the ocean. And as long as I was swimming in the ocean, there wasn't any one swimming. It was only ocean swimming in itself. And when I finished, my swimming came out as ocean. Individualized as human body mind. Beautiful. Yeah, everything's included. The impersonal sort of just planes, wave of being or just. Well, when you merge into the absolute, just the same as you merged into the ocean. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And emerging as individualized human body mind. How beautiful is that? Ocean can't. Doesn't have. Doesn't have ears and eyes and skin to actually feel itself. But individualized body mind has all those faculties. So it can experience such a variety of thrills. Tanya, the doubting is only a thought. No one doubting. Only a thought appearing. Saying there is doubt. Thank you, Rohan. Yeah. Absolutely. Tanya, not sure if my comment posted before, how do you look at doubt? Oh, yeah. We didn't see that comment. I must have missed it. Or maybe it didn't. Maybe you didn't click enter. Yeah, that's exactly how we look at doubt.

Yeah, I guess my phone is not refreshing everything also. Again, doubt's a concept. But who is the doubter? Yeah. Yeah. It's the thing to look at, not the doubt. But who's having it? Or believe? Is it a separate entity? Is it a person? Is it original? Or is that so-called doubting just another concept? Oh, yeah. But Rohan just said exactly the same thing. He just, as if you were reading his comment. Yeah. Who is the doubter? Who is the one doubting? Yeah, brilliant. Beautiful. And then Tanya says, Bob, could you talk about death, please? Death. Yeah. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death.

Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Can you remember when you, which one you were, a sperm or an ovum or a bit of each? Or can you remember which food or plant or made up that, helped made up that sperm form, an ovum form in the different bodies? And what were you, were you the plant or were you anything? Yeah. So where do you begin? And where can you end? The different patterns, concepts will come along. But what is lost? Only the concepts, the ideas.

When you had no words, you had no concepts, were you worried about death at all then? You didn't have any words, were you worried about life? Was there any concern at all? Till we learnt words. The sensations would come up, play around and disappear. Just the same as the same thing going on now. Right at this moment, Earth's rolling around the sun. And it'll be dark in some places, light in others, cold in some places, warm in others. But when did it begin? Pinpoint at time when it began. The physicists will try and say it was billions of light years away. No. But the Big Bang, but what, what, what enabled that Big Bang to happen?

What was there then that formed it? Was it gases, electrons, neutrons? Or whatever. And what was before that? Patterns, shapes and forms appear, play around and disappear. Appearance and disappearance are constantly seeming to happen. But is there a beginning to one? Or an end to the other? Try and find a static point anywhere. No static point, no beginning. How can there be an ending? Now that's the, people talk about eternity. And most of us got, think eternity started with this Big Bang or beforehand. And anything that has a beginning will have an end. And that's not eternal. Eternity has no beginning and no end. And isn't that spontaneous knowing that you are right now?

When does now begin? You can't say it's beginning, it's spontaneous. When is this ending? You say right now. Spontaneous, so it's got no duration. It's continually happening. It's continually, it's a continuing, continuing to happen. Spontaneously. A subtle seeming somewhat of a movement of energy. A pulse or a throb or a spanner or whatever they like to call it, you know. Different labels they put on it. But it's just a vibration. I'll just add one image, which is totally also Bob's image. I learned that from Bob. It's the image of death of the body. It could be human body or animal body. Or you try and find death.

And you find the same what physics already knows. That energy cannot be annihilated. It can only change form. So now the energy that is animating the organs, the heart, make it beat, make the body breathe. Now the same energy is now decomposing the body. So it creates different other organisms, bacteria, maggots, whatever it is. And those are breaking the body down. There is still life there. There is a lot of life there. It's just changing form. The life has different form right now. So like, yeah, the illustration of billion light years, that's a distance. But billion years ago where everything started. Where the ancestors of the ancestors started procreating.

There is no beginning or end to life. Because it's all flow. But what is probably more... More of a concern for a seeker is the idea of death. Because death is a concept. The concept of non-existence. That concept cannot be conceived of. Mind cannot imagine its own non-existence. And it frightens it. It scares it. But we all go to sleep at night. Where the mind stops. Or people go to coma and the mind stops. There are certain drugs which cause the mind to stop for a little moment. Some for one minute, some for fifteen minutes or whatever. And life goes on. The presence, the being.

Even if it's not recorded. Even if it's not remembered. And those situations don't frighten us. Deep sleep doesn't frighten anyone. But the concept, terrifying, unimaginable concept. That's what frightens us. But there is no death if you try to find it. It can't be found. It's only in the head. It's not even. It's just an abstract concept. Because it doesn't even have image. It's all constantly changing. And changing spontaneously. Years ago, I used to tell this story before. I decided to go back to the town that I was brought up in. Where I lived. I went up there. And I was standing on the... I'd walk down the street.

Had a look. Had a look. And see how everything had changed. And I was going back waiting for a train to leave. And the very platform I was standing on was different. Across the road used to be good sheds. There's nothing there. There's just double railways. Double railway line. And I don't think there was even any station master now. When there was all that in the flat. And that platform was on a bit of a rise. And you used to look across the flat. And there was a creek down there on the flat. Now that creek used to flood regularly. Now it was just a gutter.

Because they'd build a reservoir up in the hills. And kill the creek. Now there was some magpies warbling. In the trees. But the big trees. The big red gums that used to be there. They were gone. And there was only little shrubbery things there now. And I said, now could these be the same magpies that they were? No, they couldn't be. The birds weren't there. Everything had changed. Except the space. The space wasn't the only thing that hadn't changed. My body had changed. I didn't have the same body. And most of the people when I walked into that town. I think all of them had disappeared or changed.

Might have been an odd one or two. But if I went back there now, there'd be nobody. I went to the school. There was about 30 pupils there. 35 pupils or something when I went to school. I went to school for its 100th anniversary. And there was over 200. And the whole school ground would have been. There was a lot of people. There was a lot of room in it. It was covered with buildings. Gyms and God knows what. It was all transient. Just as those bodies changed. The space was the same. The clouds that filled the space weren't the same. Attention. We have another question or comment.

Let me see what it is. This is from Julia. I have come to understand that nobody is doing or not doing anything. Nobody is doing anything. And all thoughts are pointing to illusions of what was or what could be. While explaining this to some people, they can get the idea. But still point to the fact that Nisargadatta got imaginary cancer from the smoking he never did. You cannot release the illusion of separate me for me or anyone else. Not that you ever did that. I don't know how to answer that question. What do you two think? Well, as you said, nobody. Nobody was doing because you're not the body.

No mind. You are not the mind. It's just a spontaneous happening movement, vibration. It's seemingly we'd like to be. Well, the way it vibrates, we take it to be intelligent and all the rest of it. But it's just all it is is seeming somewhat of a movement. Yeah. A movement of spontaneous vibrating and patterning of energy. But if we don't think there's a me doing it, think there's a me that has throat cancer or me that's got busted up knees like I got here. Yeah, the body's doing it. Yeah. That's how the body's breaking down or doing what it needs to do. And that's the life essence that's in it.

It's enabled. The capacity of reason and all the rest of it. Labors and all these things. It's that life essence which is doing anything. But it's not a personal life. The life itself formed that body and is expressing through it. And when this pattern is not good enough for it, it breaks down. Where does it go back into? It emerges back into life itself. And that's why they say in the Saga, they say there's only life. There's no body who lives a life. And life lives on life. For outer life, if there's only life, and out of life, more life can only come from that life.

As Katra was saying, when the body breaks down, it gets eaten by the enzymes and the worms, the maggots and all the rest. They're all life. We're getting our feed out of that life. And out of them, more different life will come. Yeah. There's only life. There's only life. You are the life. So take a stance there. Not the body, or not in the Saga that is the body, or anybody else's body. But you are the life. And that's how Christ told you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. People thought he was talking about himself. He's not. He's talking about that life.

That's what he was. Not the person, the so-called Christ, or Jesus, or whatever body, mind, navel he's got in himself. He was life. It's self-expressing. In a seeming human pattern. But the human, and that's where we get the idea when God so-called made man in his image and likeness. We've got the idea that God's in the image of man. But he made man, so-called this God, this pure intelligence energy, this activity of knowing. He formed that pattern, he or she or whoever it was. There's nobody. The energy itself, the life itself, formed that pattern to express through. There's nothing in trouble except the image, what you're imaging about it.

Yeah, but there was a good point that you can point to it. But, you know, you can bring the horse to the water, but you can't make a drink. So, it has to be seen individually, so-called individually. The consciousness has to recognize the truth in that particular channel. So, the channel may be inspired, but the recognition has to come from the one. And we really can't do it while the belief that there is this person there. Get back to the impersonal. Persona, the mask, that's all the personal is. Our conceptual image. Without the conceptual image, what's that life that you're living now that's breathing you, beating your heart?

Isn't it vibrant? Can't it be very, you know, can't it express in its fullness, its joyousness, its love, its warmth? But then, when we give it some semblance of reality, of truth, it can express in all the other ways too. The sun, whether it's covered by clouds or not, is forever shining. Self-shining, ever fresh. And this essence that you and I are, without the obscuring clouds of thoughts, feelings, emotions, are always ever fresh and self-shining. Not creating or formulating any images. Yeah, there is a comment from Rohan. Bob loved the pointing to the place of no concern. We also experience this naturally every night in sleep.

Neither life nor death nor time have any meaning during sleep. Yeah. And Heyman says, Sleep is the most truthful part of many lives, many's life. Or maybe not, I don't know. And no one to know or not know, Rohan says to Heyman. That which is never dies, Jesse says. Yeah. Yes. My imagination is filled with the gratitude for you too. Thank you, Julia. Imagination. Imagination. Yeah, you could actually, if you take the label off, you can feel it raw in your body. It doesn't have to be in the imagination. It's quite a sweet feeling. I know you know that. Me is resistance. I am life, Taz.

Yes. Beautiful. Ben says, It seems that at certain point trying to understand what anyone really means by the absolute or intelligence energy or awakeness is just an attempt to visit not here. Bravo. Beautiful. Any attempt to grasp it with the mind, try and imagine what they mean totally is just betraying this fresh and new moment of here now where the knowing is already so present and so evident. That's why they say leave it as it is. Yes. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Yes. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. Just as is. And is means just immediately. Tania says, Oh, yeah, go on. That's it. Of course, without the thought, I already know.

Thoughts have been fixated on that. Say, I don't know it already. Thank you. Yes. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. Hey, man, the reason why we cannot add or take anything from life is because we are life. That's what I mean to say. Yeah. Cleve says, Can't stop thinking, but no one needs to chase those thoughts. Yeah. Exactly. A thinker is the thought. A thinker, can a thinker chase a thought? Can't. Yeah, but that's what we habitually do. That's right. the attention goes into the content of thinking.

That's the whole problem. We think we're going to find the answer in the mind. Yeah, yeah. The solution is to just see how seeing is just one capacity or space of seeing. It is happening within that seeing. The objects, the bodies, the eyes all happen. And the same way there is a space, a sphere or capacity of thinking. And within that capacity of thinking, the thinker, the thoughts, all of it just happen. But be aware of the whole sphere or space, and then you don't have to conceptualize the object and the subjects. Just see how the body responds. And realize you don't have to be aware.

It's already there. It's already there. Awareness is already there, absolutely. So you're home and hosed already. Yes. Yeah, I have all those comments in different times. Tanya. There is no person, no one here. There was a comment in Facebook non-duality group that as long as there wasn't being at peace all the time, that means I am taking myself to be separate. I couldn't have misunderstood. I could have, I couldn't have, hmm, not sure. It's not, it's not a whole word. Misunderstood what they were pointing to though. Laughing. I just need to trust the clarity that is already here. Yeah, this is the common. Common expectation or belief that when you are enlightened, you are in bliss, in peace, in pleasure, in love, in gratitude.

Show me the animal who lives like this. Because that's the natural state. If you show me the traumatized dog or monkey that is not fighting for the territory or is not upset when someone pull its tail. Yeah, sure, okay. Yeah. How did this Agadatta express it? There you go, yeah. Just said there's nothing wrong anymore. Didn't mean to say these things weren't going on. Exactly. But there's nothing wrong. It wasn't right or wrong. It was just as it is. Oh, you can even look at this common, even common stories about enlightened beings like Jesus getting pissed off with the guys doing some marketing in a temple.

Like, yeah, quite furious resistance. And I can't imagine like, why would we even need to? Being at peace is already there, present all the time. And within that peaceful, empty space of no vibration, the world appears. It doesn't mean that this world will be somehow deprived from experiencing more vivid emotions. That would be unfair. Nobody would want to be incapable of having really nice, beautiful, burst of a juicy anger because if you are not capable of that you're not capable of the opposite either realize as long as the minds there and it'll always be there initially get Alzheimer's or dementia or something like that there'll never be peace actually with Alzheimer and dementia there is no peace either it's just a different unless you're in coma the peace is when the mind is not yes that's why they call it the peace that passes all understanding means it can't be understood by the mind or concept can't be grasped it's when the understanding yeah just a pure understanding is there you know that's when the peace is there yeah it's when you understand that you don't have to identify with the emotion that surfaces up you don't have to identify like let's say you find yourself I remember that was in Nisargadatta's book or one of the talks you told me when somebody asked him a question if there was a fight would he find himself going and stopping it he says he had no clue perhaps he would find himself joining it joining that he doesn't know he doesn't know how his body is conditioned to respond in certain situation maybe if the child was involved he would behave differently or or adult who knows nobody knows that and that's the spontaneity but do I have to create identity that this is me here fighting against them I don't have to do that the body will do the fighting the body will do the yelling shouting the body will do all that it is conditioned to do but my identity can rest as the code as the uncontrolled singularity that the emptiness space like emptiness whatever the body the thoughts the feelings doesn't really matter because I don't construct identity which makes me believe that they are my thoughts my actions my feelings I am still the space in which all of it happens and in this way I am always at peace but you look at the body mind and the body of mind is jumping up and down and shouting screaming whatever it does so it is a deeper meaning to it but like in a common language the way it is understood it is rather misunderstood because you expect just a constant peace and bliss and that is unknown in nature Sally oh yeah this we have been here it was about death and believe me Bob and Kat there is only life as Bob always suggested during 45 years yeah there's only life now you know wonderful yeah and pesto doesn't know he's pesto yeah well he's not he's alive yes Pesto is a cat Bob called his ownorden him pesto because he lovingly very very lovingly and gently called them a pests but it doesn't really sound right when you love someone so pesto is sweeter Megan if people perceive threat do you think that concretizes the self-center or is it vice versa when people perceive a threat does that concretize self-center or is that vice versa is there a soul center there the concrete of it when you're gonna be believing it if it you know it was taken on board there a response to it more the activity that comes a man who will happen yeah depends how strong the habit is because if you see the wolves the forest perceiving a hunter with the dogs it sees the threat does it concretize self-centered no it doesn't it just does whatever the instinctively the body does it runs or it fights if the person in the same situation has very very strong habit of rather going to the head and and creating a story than fight-or-flight then it happens but as again it's just happening in the imagination the thing to do if it's happening to align find itself center yeah or perhaps just drop it and run if you see the threat or fight I don't know it's of course it's not not in your hands what you're going to do you just have to discover what the body does done access it is unknowable it is unknowable hmm there's a saying that hey hey the unknowable is saying is unknowable is the unknowable is the unknowable is in pain the unknowable is It is unknowable.

You are unknowable. Absolutely. That's true. Please notify the darkness is light, Heyman says. I think we've been there before. And we have Taku says something in a language. Goodmore, yeah, it was something in a language, in Japanese. Taku? Yes. I haven't heard of Taku for years. No, we didn't see you, Taku, but we see you online. We see him on... He came here years ago. Yes, he did. A few times. And Tanya. Ah, the doubting is only thoughts. We've been here. If I can refresh it and have some more. Tanya says, I don't expect constant peace and bliss. I can see that it is not possible.

That is not what appears. Many sensations and thoughts appear simply because they do. It is all just happening like you say. Beautiful. Oh, Bill. Hi, Bill. Hello, Bill. Bob and Kat, thank you. This is my first time on Facebook. What a joy. And thank you, everybody, for your contribution. Love to all. Hey, wonderful to have you here. Love to you, Bill, yeah. Yes. There is no creation, no creature, and no creator. Same, I'm quoting you. Yeah, Megan says, I laughed then. Yeah. I usually have that response, too. I got sloppy in the face a couple of times as a kid. Kat, thank you. I really needed to hear that today.

Thank you. That's John. And Dana, I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking. I am talking to that I am, that I am. I am not talking to anybody. Hmm. Yes. That I am, that I am is a sense of presence. Mm. The awareness of being present. And no naming, no claiming. No one to name, no one to claim. Jane. That's right. Paula. For me, it is like everything has two parts. Neither must be labeled good or bad. Absolutely. Yeah. Two ends of the stick, but it's still one stick. Hmm. Amarnath. Nobody has no mind at all the times. Nobody has no mind at all the times.

For functioning appears to have, is there for all? Functioning? For functioning appears to have, is there for all? Hm. Nobody has no mind at all times. There is nobody to have mind or no mind. Well, what is the function? It's the absolute that vibrates and forms a pattern, shapes and forms everything. Yeah. All so-called persons or beings in it, are Maya, are illusionary patterns. It's only the one essence. yeah so if you if you start from the fact that there is no one there and just the content just the vibration sometimes they are thoughts sometimes they're no thoughts sometimes they are feelings functioning but no one really has them it just what shows up jai bob ananda says scott and tanya intelligence energy is primary before any thoughts that is all there is so what i am cannot be the body or mind thought wow exactly uh we i think we've been on this one what i don't have to know okay i know that i don't have to know that i don't know if i know or don't know i don't even know if know what i don't know and i don't know so ultimately i know and don't know completely each other and always knowing of knowing and not knowing is the background of all knowing and unknowing heyman says uh julia says there is a lot of knowing for someone who doesn't know and there is no one to know or not to know that's it yeah and it ultimately doesn't matter it's like a verbal masturbation it's really just what is that which is never dies we've been here we've been here yeah it's uh it says that there are new comments and i can't see them aha okay they're showing up in this order now there is no creation oh no creature and no creator we've seen this one but better check the other one oh we have stanley consciousness is not about feeling thought and human concept consciousness is not about feeling thought and human concept consciousness appears not aware yes are you unconscious no but what can you can you say what it is you can't this is all there is and it is unknowable says dana it's real and unreal but it is unknowable yes don't even try to grasp it that's the best way amarna replying to dana exactly but beyond knowing unknowing or real and unreal all our concepts who wants to know that's it yes so we have um dana says there is no beyond this is all there is but it is unknowable and tanya it is only a thought that says there is needing to know hmm you , amarna, sexuality pattern lasts to go any take on this thought is not there appears to be though is not there appears to be any thoughts on on this on what on sexuality as the pattern that is last to go sexual sexual sexuality is just a natural urge to produce more light we've put it to put it in the mind and conceptualize about it all day and all night and all the rest of it.

It becomes overwhelming. But most animals are seasonal. I have two dogs, a dog and a bitch be lying together for weeks and not thinking anything about it. But suddenly the female will come into heat and there'll be animals come from everywhere. If she didn't deliberately think it up I'm gonna come in and do that. But we've got it in front of us all the time and it's natural that it's gone out the window. With sexuality is that we think it's a problem. We have all sorts of different concepts about it and social guidances about it and religions which are trying to control sexuality by forbidding or restricting it in order to control people somehow or use it as a scene or something.

Help! The concepts around sexuality are the problem. Sexuality usually, unless of course there is some mental illness and there is some addiction that causes suffering or is dangerous for the body. But then again life resolves it because life usually finds a way to medicate or to correct itself. If there is no thinking process that somehow obstructs that, it's like a water in the nature. This is such an antioxidants plan and it always finds the easiest way. It always evens itself up. So in there is an error, there's a correction. If there is no conceptual obstacle in a way of having on other Psych Frankfurt story about it.

I mean what, what a way to the depress people or even to control and manipulate, like Bob says, now you switch on the TV and it's all about sex, it's all about bikinis.un and creams and naked skin and curved bodies and beer, everything. I mean, I don't really know, I only see the TV when I have to see a client and it's on, we don't really switch on the TV. We choose what we want, I mean, we're not choosing the life's doing so. But even the advertisements on the street create that thought pattern, that obsession in people that doesn't show up in nature, in other animals and creatures to the extent it shows up for us.

But usually if it is a problem, the correction is already there, the solution is already there if you just stop thinking. And is it the last pattern to go? Sexuality pattern last to go. Well. I think the last one is breathing or heartbeat. But yes, it is a strong pattern, it is a strong survival pattern. I think Freud was saying that there are only two instincts. Sexual instinct is the instinct for life and the aggression is an instinct for death. So if you're prolific, you want to engage in some pleasures and sexual pleasure is an example or is, oh, aggression is the other end of the stick.

But that's only his contribution. So it's not a concept or model. Yeah. It exists in nature. It has its function. In humans it has more than the procreative function because of the intelligence that gave us some sort of a birth control. So it may have a function of bonding or releasing stress or lots of other functions. Or it may also be a function of the mind. So it's a function of the mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A dysfunction. I mean, that's a concept. See if there is anything else. Otherwise we'll have to just wrap it up because there won't be anything to talk about. Yeah. So Jesse say, they say memory is the second to last thing to go.

I forget what is the first one. I think it's hearing. You can hear even when you go to coma, when you go to anesthetics, the hearing is the last to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you need to success is the way. It's the last to go. You're still breathing. Depends on the definition of the pattern. Felicity, I'm still very new here. Is there any point trying to discuss this truths with others or just try to see them alone? That's a good question. I mean, you know, Felicity, is it a point to actually brainstorm about it in a group? Self-care, of course there are other ways.

But this is or is your real technique over here? Oh, I mean, this is art. Probably not much art but 정olo. about it in a group or you have to actually see for yourself. Again, it depends on the pattern and I would do both. See what you open up to? Yes, yes, like Bob needed to show up at Nisargadatta's because the pointing, the energy, the frequency of the pointing actually really helped to shift. For the same reason I needed Bob. And there are people who don't need anyone, they just open up, their mind opens. When I came back I wanted to talk about it, yeah.

It spontaneously came out. People said Nisargadatta didn't tell you to talk or ask you to talk. I said no and if he'd told me not to talk he couldn't have stopped it. Because you want to shout it for an hour, it stops. I want everyone to know. But then that soon quietens down. Yes. You come home and you realise that not everybody wants to hear it. Yes. So you don't. But then there'll always be somebody who'll come along that'll recognise it or resonate with it, see something in you that they want to know. It willens itself out like everything else. Yeah, it works itself out.

So if life brings you to the deep, deep contemplation in which it's just the mind is quiet and recognition happens, that's a real thing. Yeah, that's appropriate. If the mind brings you to the group where people actually share their own insights, that's all to be credited to life, trust life. I have people come here and they could have gone to thousands of other people elsewhere, close to their home or gone anywhere at all. Why do they choose to come to this point? Yeah. And it's not everyone. And a lot will move away from here too. Yeah. Yeah. They won't come. Mm-hmm. So it willens itself out.

Julia has, I find it fascinating that a kangaroo can voluntarily halt pregnancy during a drought. If humans stop a pregnancy, it is murder to some. Yeah, nature is amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, the kangaroos got one in the pouch, one on the way and hunting. Mm-hmm. And in the next sentence what's the- oh, I've got, got a, yeah. Yeah. One. One. One, one whiting, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because she says that kangaroo can voluntarily halt the pregnancy. Yeah. And in the next sentence she says, I know the kangaroo is not choosing either. No. Of course. It's the nature doing, through it. Breth, greeting Bob and Kat.

My knowledge is growing by untying the knot of not knowing. What a fantastic idea. what a fantastic talk today thank you thank you i'll check it julia says i know the kangaroo is not choosing either and megan says he's joking he's joking and they john david love you bob love your cat always happy to end my work week listening to you battery is recharged john david and thank you john david you always uh he's always sending us a little donation which is so highly appreciated never seen him not doing it and yeah we we do really appreciate it and it's nice to have you here and and see your contribution and your comments and feel your love julia says coming to you was the best thing i ever did in my life thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you did i love you all thank you for this morning i see we have all the thank you messages so i think bob that's the time for us to say julia's ordering everyone to send donations you are darling julia we love you nobody's gonna beat what you've done for us and uh amarna good exposing who i am either with sage or nature's silence exposing who i am am i either with sage or nature's silence and jane says thank you for this morning bobbin cut the listening is beautiful love you both we love you too jane yes jane chris says thank you dana says thank you jesse uh not many can understand this way of seeing sharing my arise it may or not be understood or appreciated always nice to talk with jessie and bob and jane thank you so much for sharing this with us and for those who get it rohan says thank you and tanya says thank you so much all the pointers are just wonderful and perfect so much peace love and joy knowing it is all impersonal and mukti says donate via the website i can never thank you enough says julia where do we send oh yeah that was dale asking and mukti replied and more thank you messages and julia posted a link to the website oh no now i just got uh now a little refreshment yes so there's more thank you messages and thank you everyone and i just wanted to highlight and uh because this was beautiful what uh gosh i think that was jesse who said it that is just nice to be uh around people who can understand that language because well this is a tiny niche to be in the non-duality circle or circus and not many people understand that language maybe it is changing now with the internet is yeah but it's still it's still a tiny sangha always it's not like yeah yes well thank you everyone thank you for your wishes and thank you for your sharing yes and don't forget you are already that whether you realize or recognize it or not you still are that yes nothing else everything's that you could not possibly be excluded like how come love you