This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Good morning everyone. As usual, point to the actuality, the reality, which a good label for it is awareness. You can't say what awareness is, can you? There's no shape, no form, but innately you know it right now. Because if I ask you, are you unaware? You'll say no, I'm not unaware. There's awareness or knowing or cognising, different labels they put upon it, or absolute. Or even God, if you like to use that term. It's all that basic screen called awareness, which is space-like awareness, they call it, or recognising awareness or emptiness. All those things are pointing to what? You, I, and everything else is, in essence, is already that.
Which we have lost sight of that in the scriptures, they call it ignorance. And I took that to mean for many years, I was dull or stupid or an idiot. When the realisation came that all it means is that I was ignoring my true nature. Ignoring the essence that I am, and a conceptual image, or different conceptual images of what I believe myself to be, and suffered accordingly. But in the recognising, or the recognising, I was already, ever, and always aware of the actual life essence. And was patently shaping and forming, and utilising this body to express through. And I was that essence, the absolute.
If they use the term God, they say God is absolute. And that is correct. But then we think, where it says that God made man in his image and likeness, we think Big Daddy, is in the shape and form of a human shape and form. But it's not that at all. This awareness or essence has no pattern, no shape, no form. But it's sat through each forms, every pattern, shape and form to express through. And the pattern, shapes and forms are not the reality. They're what they call Maya or illusion, the Nama Rupa, name and form. A name is the pattern and each and every one of us have got names.
And we take those names to be these separate entities, these individuals, their person. But can you separate yourself from that essence? We call ourselves these body, mind, entities. But are you the body? Are you the mind? Innately you know you're not the body. You say, my body, my mind. Well whose body? Whose mind? Is it the body's body? Or the mind's mind? Can't be. And what's the body made up of? Investigate and have a look and see for yourself. What's the body made up of? You realise it's not. This body, when you investigate, is made up of elements. Air, earth, water, space, fire. All the elements.
And those elements should be broken down to subatomic particles, into energy. So the body is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. That's what you're saying here. Vibrating into this pattern, shape and form. And the same with the mind. You say, my mind. Just sort of like you say, my car. My house. You're not the car or house. Maybe you're not the mind either. And again, investigate. What's mind? Show me a mind, if you think you're a mind. Show yourself a mind. If you can. And there's no such thing as mind when you break it down and realise. There's no such thing as mind apart from thoughts.
And if you be the mind, that's what you must be. The thought. And what's the primary thought? That sense of presence comes out of this. Sense of presence of the thought, I am. But are you that thought? If you were that thought, you wouldn't lose sight of it. Because it would be the end of you. Yet you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep. Gladly. You're glad to go to sleep. You gladly give that thought up. And if you were that thought, you wouldn't be frightened to get rid of it. So you're not the thought. And what's the thought? And you realise the thought's only a mental construct.
A construct that, or word. And what is word? Word's sound, isn't it? What's sound? Sound's a vibration. And a vibration is a movement of energy. So this body-mind is just thinking about vibrating patterns of energy. Now can you show me energy? You can't show me a thing called energy. But you can see many, many expressions of energy in this manifestation. It's expressing as this body. This body is just a vibrating pattern of energy. Expressing as the mind. Expressing as the tree, as the flower, as the wind. So you can see expressions of it. You can't see it grasps the wind. It's just moving the air.
And the air's a vibration of energy too. So... All the pattern shapes and forms that it's vibrating as, that's what they are. Vibrating patterns, illusionary patterns. They call this manifestation Maya. Or illusion. Or a phenomenal manifestation. And your dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's not what is, it's the seeming to be. So what's happened? We've taken ourselves to be the person. A separate entity. The individual. And we put that word person on with the words we learnt. Where does it come from? Persona. The mask. A Greek, the ancient Greek or Latin language. So we've got this conceptual image, a mask of concepts.
I'm Bob the Australian. I'm a good fella or I'm not so good. Or I'm unhappy or I'm depressed. People don't like me or I'm introverted or I'm extroverted. All these concepts, mental constructs, are added on to the absolute essence that I really am. That absolute essence which has got no division in it whatsoever. That's why they call it in Hinduism. The non-dual. One without a second. Non-dual. Not two. Not two anywhere in this manifestation at all. It's the one essence patterning, vibrating, shaping and forming as everything. All things. And that's all this manifestation is. Have a look at it. It's made up of things. I'm a thing.
You're a thing. The tree's a thing. The flower's a thing. The chair, the table. The space is something. The sun is a thing. Everything is things. All appearing in that stillness, emptiness, silence, absolute. Now can some thing come from no thing? Because that absolute is no thing. So the something cannot come. From no thing. So it's all the no thing. Patterning, shaping and forming and appearing in that vibration. It's vibrating, it's shimmering, shaping and forming as everything. But the pattern, shapes and forms have no reality whatsoever. It's all mire. It's all illusionary. So start from the fact that you are already that absolute. And see what has happened.
It all begins with the Word as it tells you in the Bible. In the beginning it was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. And that's all it is when you look at it. That's all God is. There's another label we put on it. The essence. The absolute. All things were made by Him, by the Word. And isn't that a fact? All the things in this manifestation are made by Him. All the things in this manifestation we put words on. That's the tree. The flower. You. Me. Human beings. Are all words. There was nothing made. There's no pattern, shape or form that was made without the Word.
So, it's all these things are words. But it's still always and ever been the one essence. Patterning, shaping and vibrating into all these different pattern, shapes and forms. And it's not just the water like the ocean. It breaks up into ripples, waves, tsunamis, tides and foam and stray and everything else. But it's still only the ocean. And you go down in the other juice, go down to the ocean. I'll say, get me a bucket of blue water. That looks like it's blue. It appears to be blue. But I try to pull a bucket of water out of it. It's not blue. And you realize it never was blue.
It never could be. Just like we're trying to point out here. And all this manifestation is just that absolute totality. And you are that. But we learnt words. And that's where the story of the so-called beginning. In the beginning was the Word. And this is a tile so-called analogy of Adam and Eve. And Adam and Eve were in paradise. The Garden of Eden. In paradise. And what happened to them? They ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. In other words, they learnt words. And they were immediately out of paradise. They locked into the words, into the beliefs. And it took them away from paradise.
Into the capacity of reasoning. Into the words of good and evil. That's the way the words vibrate. Good. Bad. Good and evil. Present. Painful. Happy. Sad. Loving. Hating. Positive. Inhibitive. Have a look at your own mind and see how your thinking is happening. Is it happening in any other way than dualistically. A dualistic vibration. And that's all it is. A vibration. We've learnt these words. We've learnt these words. and look at all the concepts and words we've got now. Science and physics and all the rest of it, trying to find the answer with words. And they can work so many things out, that when they put the labels or words on, the story keeps going on and on and on.
It becomes never ending. But pause the thought right now. Ask yourself what is wrong with right now, right in this instant, if I haven't got a thought there, if I'm not thinking of it. And to do that, you've got to try and look beyond the thought and see what's there right now. And without the thought, have you disappeared? Have you stopped breathing? Has your heart stopped beating? Have your fear and ear and fingernails stopped growing? Has your food stopped being to rested? Don't digest it. You realise all these things are still going on. But the label forming on the thought has stopped. And the same, we've got this idea, I've got all this conditioned responses, I've got all this conditioning.
All right, well what conditioning is there? If you don't think about it. Can you say there's anything conditioning there? Without a thought? And you can't. Because there's nothing there. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. And you can't. Without a thought. And without the thought, you can't even say it's silent or still. But it is, and the vibration of moving on. And that's all. We've learnt the words, and the words can be very useful to understand that in the way the function is going on.
But they are self-destructive. Because it's the word that tells me I'm not good enough. But I'm fearful. And after all, I'm only human. I can't do this, because after all, I'm only human. And have a look at that, we call ourselves human beings. And you call this God that you believe in the Supreme Being, the Absolute Supreme Being. Now take away the word Supreme, take away the word human. Can you separate the beingness? You can't say what it is without the word, but you know that you are being, you're not unaware, you haven't stopped being. And being is happening right here, right now, it's not becoming.
We're trying to become something, we've got to become realised or liberated or free of this conceptual image we've got about us. But how can you become? Become implies a future time, and have a look at that. Question this idea of time, this concept. And ask yourself that also. Time is past, present and future. And ask yourself this, is there a past if I don't think about it? Is there a future if I don't think about it? And what can I say in this presence if I'm not putting any thoughts or labels on it? And it's a way of describing this presence, awareness. The awareness is there and the presence is there.
Just like the beingness is there. And that's the way of describing this presence. The awareness is there. Without those labels. What is it? Another term for it is life. And as Nisargadatta says, that's all there is. There's life. There is only life. And he says, there is no one who lives a life. No one, no separate one that lives a life. Life lives on life. Throughout a life, more life comes. If all these things are life… You and I are life. What comes from that? Life. When two patterns come together out of that more life forms. And where's the room for death in that? Death is just another label when we think, we take it to believe, it's the end of this pattern, shape or form.
The pattern, shape or form, the vibration disappears. But when the vibration stops, what happens? Doesn't anything that's vibrating and moving around, when it stops, what happens to it? Doesn't the stillness? And the silence come upon it? And this seeming body, the stillness, the silence, the pure awareness. And what happens to the pattern of the expression? Well it's no longer of any use, it breaks down, rots and disappears. It's like you've got an oyster in a pearl shell. What happens when you take the oyster? The oyster's out of it. What happens to the shell itself? After a while it'll break down, it's empty. It'll rot, it'll dissolve.
Where's the pearl and the oyster gone? So it's constantly transient. Constantly transient. No time. Time has a beginning and an end, it's all spontaneous. Beginning and endless. When does now begin? I've grasped it right now. As I've grasped it, it's ended already. And I'm grasping it again and it's ending again. So it's got no time to it. No duration to it whatsoever. It's a vibration. Beginningless, endless. Timeless, spaceless. Bodiless, mindless. So it needs something, it's absolute, which nothing can be added to. Nothing can be taken away. It needs something to express through. So when it's innate intelligence, it forms this body. It puts the life in.
Because it is absoluteness, it can't express as anything. Because it'll break it down from the absolute, wouldn't it? Into something separate from it. Which is seemingly done when it's broken these human patterns down. It can't express anything, so it needs pattern, shapes and forms to express through. It forms the body. But if the body didn't have all those organs in it, the brain, the nerves that's in use, it wouldn't be of any use either. How could you express? So we think this brain's such a marvelous thing. It is. But it's the life essence that's infusing it, that's doing its job. Utilizing it. It's utilizing the body.
It's utilizing everything. It's the life essence that's forming the trees and the flower. So what must you be? Thank you. Thank you. You take that life essence out of the body, you've got a corpse. And that corpse has still got the eyes, the ears, the heart, the lungs, the kidneys, the organs, all the organs in it. But they're not a bit of good to it now, are they? Without that life essence forming through it. So doesn't that prove to you what you are? I'm not the body, I'm not the mind, I'm not the element that's supposed to express it through. I am the very life itself.
Which is utilizing those patterns. And that's what Christ tells you in, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. That sense of presence. Which expresses through the mind as the thought I am. That's where the thought comes from, I am. That sense of presence. And that's the way, that's the truth, and that's the life that you are. And that life is the light. I am the light of the world. He's telling you another truth there. Not letting himself, but that I am, that sense of presence, is the light or the energy that forms the world. And everything in it. The vibrating patterns.
The planets, the stars. And all the things that form this universal manifestation. It's all that light or energy of light. It's all of it. And you can't be anything other than that. Excuse me. And isn't that the great mantra? I am that. What is the that? Innately you already know it. What the that is. Because you say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. That's the body, that's the mind. That's the kidney, that's the brain. Everything is that. Which we put other words or labels on. And discriminating with the words. And tells you endless things. When no discriminating thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to be.
You don't see things in the old manner. You see them fresh and new. As they really are. Everything is that. And you and I are that. That thought or expression comes up. That sense of presence comes up. As I am. How would you tell anybody what you are? Somebody asks, who are you? You'll say, I am Bill or Harry or Jean or Jack. Put the labels on. But the I am is a sense of presence. And that's what the saga data tells you to do. Stay with the I am-ness. But we think he's saying stay with that thought, I am. He's not. He's saying stay with the sense of presence.
Anybody who is unaware of being present right now, no. You'll say, I am. Stay with that sense of presence. And he says, that'll take you home. In a very, very short time. Because you see, the time's a mental concept also. And you'll recognize that you are that right here and now. Always have been and always will be. Though the apparent seeming time will still be in the manifestation. And will still be utilized. And you'll see it. It'll still be utilized. And instead of all these things utilizing us, telling me that's when the mind uses me and tells me I'm not good enough. The mind's there to be utilized.
It's there to be used. One of the ways that this amazing and wondrous intelligence expresses. Use it. Don't let it use you by telling the believed in you that you're no good or you're unhappy. Or you're a human being. Or you're fearful. Utilize it. And see what comes up then. See what thought comes up which comes up spontaneously. Ever fresh and ever new. Every thought is fresh and new. Understand it. But we put the old images and labels and words we put on it. Sensation comes up. And you say, this is fear. This is anger. Or another sensation, this is anger. How do you know?
Well, when you're angry. Or when you were a little child, you had through a tantrum or something. And you called it fear. Or your parents called it fear and anger and labeled it that. And you've added that label to it ever since. And now you've got a dead image that you're relating to all the time. And the dead image can't keep up to life. But then see everything is fresh and new. Spontaneous. Don't put the old labels on it. See, thought, feeling, and emotion. Thought. Feeling. There's a subtle vibration of energy. And becomes the feeling or the sensation. The feeling is the sensation. And it becomes the, we put the old labels.
Anger, fear, depression, unhappiness. See it as fresh and new. And then the emotion that comes up. The tease or the anger or whatever comes up. It'll be totally different if you see the sensation fresh and new. And realize that the words we use are never the thing. Take the word water. Try and drink the word. Try and swim in the word. Drown in the word. Wash in the word. You can't. Take the word fire. Does it burn you? Cook with the word. Heat yourself with the word. You can't. So see that this word, I or me, we've taken to be our real energy. And we're going to be our real energy.
Our real identity. See it's not you at all. You and I are labels. We put on it. Like we put on the other labels too. Body, mind. Good and bad. Pleasant, painful. Separate entities. Individuals. Persons. They're all labels which separate us. It's the one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming. Expressing as everything. And you are that. And that will do me for now. Got a few questions. Starting from, hello everyone. Doesn't show me all of them. Have to see if I can find them on the phone. Yes, so there is a first one. There is a comment from Tanya. Went to visit mom, dad and sister yesterday and noticed habitual thoughts and sensations appearing.
So called awkwardness. And not feeling close to them anymore. I don't know. I suppose. Came up to be looked at, I suppose. I know I'm definitely not the person or separate entity but habitual patterns are still showing up occasionally. I don't know what my question is, exactly. I suppose that without the belief in separation these patterns will drop. But no one to drop them. The dropping will just happen by itself. Laughing. There is no other way this will play out. Do any habit patterns still appear for you, Bob and Kat? Occasionally a habit might come up, but it's lost its sting. It's like a fangless tiger then.
Apparently it can't do much damage with its fangs to take it out. Well so these things will come up. But you can't put the same energy and belief into them anymore, so they can't be the same. And then the thought might come up, why bother? And you don't bother, you don't cling to it, let it go. And like everything else, it changes. Thoughts are constantly changing. So it's good that you're recognizing what is coming up. That's the main thing. In the recognition, you can do something about it. When we didn't recognize them and believed them to be something, we didn't recognize them. And then we got locked into them.
And then the recognizing that something is false, not the truth, you'll look into it and not hang on, not cling to it. And then I'll just add that as humans, we are creatures of habits. So certain habits you don't even really want to drop off. I mean, ideally, none of the patterns you want to drop off because if there is no you, who cares which habit patterns are there and which are not. All seen in context. But the habits are there. The supportive ones will probably stay like, you know, the habit pattern of breathing, for example. You don't want that one, no? Or the habit pattern of answering with a smile and saying good morning when someone passes you by.
There are a lot of nice habits. And they are socially undesirable habits. And they are habits that create unease or suffering. And those habits, when you see them as completely impersonal survival strategies. Things that do not exist. things that might have worked sometime in the past and are just lingering still there and you don't really mind you just kind of you see them for what they are without resistance to it they may not be of use anymore that's how they drop not when we try to alter modify and correct them and if the trying of course if you have a unhealthy habit and there is a trying to get rid of the habit that trying is also impersonal that is just you are a consciousness holding space for two habits nothing needs to be changed even the willingness to change things doesn't need to be changed so I'll read another and in the ensign it tells you you know and all the modifying the curriculum he says when no discriminating thoughts arise the old mind ceases to be Amarnath says a God creation and jiva limited personality all our illusion in reality only one beyond concept of one there's a question mark here in reality only one beyond concept of one beyond concepts of one yes it's only one is non dual that's what non-duality is it's the one essence, patterns, shapes, forms, vibrates and expresses as everything.
The one appears to be many, but is still only and ever the one. Yes, there is another one laughing from Tanya. There was no awkwardness or not closeness. Those are just labels. Take the labels off and nothing was actually happening. Just the actual experience as is. Looking at it fresh and new is so wonderful. So there again you are not discriminating it. That's right. Okay, so now I think the telephone is up. We had a problem with the sound but I unplugged it a couple of times and plugged in again and it seems to be working now. So, Amarnath says, Dear Bob, when you were seeing Nisargadatta Maharaj as a Guru on occasion of the Satsang, what was the most difficult thing you experienced?
I was very much in the middle of the Satsang. I was very much in the middle of the Satsang. I was very much in the middle of the Satsang. I was very much in the middle of the Satsang. There was an explanation of Guru Poormina, duality was completely absent as Guru and disciple. That's a question. When I recognized, understood what he was saying, then there was just another pattern in the universe. But you couldn't help but love. The way of expressing, the expression of it. It's just as long as we see something beautiful, it's just beautiful. in this manifestation, you don't feel separate from it, do you?
No. Admiring? It was very easily approachable. The guru-disciple relationship was when I was with Mukta Nanda. And you couldn't get near him. That many hanging around him, but it disappeared entirely with the Sargadatta. Yes, that's the beauty. There is something for everyone. There are big ashrams with gurus sitting on the high thrones and people who have the inclination to worship. They'll find them and that will serve its way, that will serve the purpose. And then there are people humble and approachable like you, Nisargadatta. And who knows? As far as I'm watching, your effectiveness in the world. The world is just incredibly so much higher. But that's how life is.
But Mukta Nanda, you know, he served the purpose. If I hadn't gone to him, I would have never got to Nisargadatta. Absolutely, yes. And before him, Maharishi and others I looked at, too. All served their purpose. But when you recognize that it was all the one, anyway, in different shapes and forms, then you see the whole life as just a beautiful dance. Life takes you where it takes you. Some will go and climb Everest. Some other ones will sit in monasteries and ashrams. Yet another one will fulfill themselves in creating music, of bringing up children. It's all perfect. It's the same life experiencing and expressing through all the patterns.
So life has it all. Life has been in Mukta Nanda and in alcoholism and in everything, just through different patterns. The whole... manifestation is covered up with the appreciation and experience fully. That's it. That's the only reason, or there's no reason at all, but it's the only way that life is expressing here. In the hope, well, not even the hope, but somebody might hear it. Might be of value to someone who can recognize it and understanding and the recognition and be what they already are. Yeah, you're appearing in that dream. You are the touch of a grace. Amenath says, I absolute is prior to I am-ness.
We are prior to the I am-ness too. Yeah, exactly. And Tanya says, I wanted to share as I had a call with Bob this week, such stillness, silence and peace. I know I was only talking to myself, but thought says, I have... I have never... never anyone like Bob before. I can't describe our meeting with words. So much gratitude. Yeah, good on you. Yeah, use him, really. I mean, he's here. Don't move a mind about that. Tanya, just let that gratitude out so others might hear it from you. That's the important thing. Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be words. Some people, it's just an energy.
It's just a holding space. You don't really... I mean, the most effective sessions, one-on-one that I had, was when I was holding space for someone to find their own answers. There was not much teaching going on. That actually just may be guiding a little bit. But yeah, it's the frequency, really. The resonance. Dona sends love. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. And Tim says, is there such thing as karma? Hmm? Is there such thing as karma? Karma. Is there what of karma? Karma, such thing. Does karma exist? Oh, so there's no such thing as karma. Karma is apparent, a seemingly cause and effect. You know? But if you're not relating to a cause, who or what is it?
Or where can it affect me? Yeah. So it's just a pattern, shaping and forming in different ways. And it's apparent, seems like an apparent cause, but it seems to be the apparent separation too. Hmm. So it's all the one essence, appearing or seeming to be. I heard, and it was from... I had a guru also in India before, just like Bob, our life was just so amazingly mirroring each other. And that guru, he was like, he was a guru of mine, he gave me the best explanation of karma I ever heard. Because karma is a cause and effect. So if you have certain action, then, you know, the popular belief says that if you go and steal an apple from somebody's garden, then you're gonna get caught, or you're gonna pay, or you're gonna be punished some way or the other.
But the way he was explaining karma was that if you go and steal an apple from somebody's garden, you create a habit pattern. You create a habit pattern in yourself of stealing again. So it doesn't really mean that you're gonna be caught and punished, but it means the habit pattern can take you in a completely different way. So karma, because everything influences everything, so action does influence the way the body operates, and it does create certain neural pathways, which later on makes the same action easier. That's how we learn. So for me, that was kind of end of the... end of fear, because if karma doesn't mean that if I have a bad thought, then I will be punished, and I have to go and make a confession, or I don't know, whatever the popular religions will tell you to repent for such things.
And I understand that I can't really think a thought. The thought will come up according to the pattern, and then karma will also influence the pattern. Now you can actually see it in a light of consciousness how that creation works. Not that you can do much about it, apart from just recognizing in consciousness. So whether karma is or it isn't, as everything in the world depends on what you say. If you say it is, you will see the results, you will see the effects. If you say it isn't or it doesn't exist, you will also, because... yeah, that's how we construct the world. And Amarnath says, Everything is me, but when I am beyond I am, waking, dream, sleep, deep sleep, as absolute everything expressed as that.
Yeah, he forms it as questions. I'm not quite sure if that's a question or sharing. Everything is me, but when I am beyond I am, waking, dream, deep sleep, as absolute everything expressed as that. And that's a question mark. Well, what is that? That is me also, isn't it? Mm. Yeah, as absolute everything expressed as that. Try and separate yourself from it. Yeah, so well, even when you dream, even when you identify as a form, even if you believe you are separate, you're still that because everything is that. But yeah, sure, I guess it means that when you don't identify, dream or think, or imagine, that's kind of more clear.
Fangless tiger just is laughing. That's a good one. God says, Favourite Nisargadatta quote, Why change the person? Just go beyond. Beautiful. Yeah, the person's just vibrating better. Who can change it anyway? Yes. Now, Theodore says, Karma is as much time as you think you are a person. Yeah. Tanya, There is no resistance to the habit pattern. There is just not to think of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's the freedom. Yeah. See, all these questions, I mean, questions are coming up. They all have a pretty good understanding of it. Yeah. Yeah. Adrian, I like Bob's comment that you can't be separated from the One Awareness, as opposed to the coming from the other way of looking to connect to the One Awareness, which implies a search.
That's a good point. Yes. Everyone is trying to reach or join or find themselves. Adrian. Adrian. How you going, Adrian? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a really important thing to highlight. Don't start, you say, don't start from the, from behind the eyeball. Start from the fact. And now, Amanaz says to Tanya, when she was visiting her mom and dad and sister, and it was the awkwardness, Amanaz says, Tanya, beautiful. We see everyone in this universe as our own family member. In fact, our love increases towards all. Beautiful. Yeah. God, I am following many teachings with similar concepts and teachers. I'm saying to my, to myself, it's all the same self with many teachers and concepts.
I heard that going to many gurus without choosing one is cheating one, oneself on oneself. You want to comment on this? I would really like. He says, he says that, I heard that going to many gurus without choosing one is cheating one, oneself. Cheating on oneself. Cheating, yeah. Yeah, well, if you follow where, where it leads you, let it take you where it takes you. Yeah. Yeah. Some might stick to the one, some might, might go to many. Some might, it's a matter of investigating and seeing for yourself, you know. Yeah. The false can't stand up to investigation. If it's, if it's looking to it deeply enough and it's false, you'll see it's false.
And you can no longer believe it again. If someone tells you this and someone tells you that, test it out. Test it out for yourself. If it resonates with you, rings a bell, we'll take it. If it doesn't, move on. See where it takes you. And I've noticed, not only in my own case, but also amongst people that I spoke with, that it's kind of, life resolves it. And it may be a phase of guru shopping where you go and try and, oh yeah, I like this one more than that one. Or I like the language or the pace of speaking or, you know, and it's, and that's a phase of a sense of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of satisfying the mind quite often because there is mind that has to say, oh, I like it.
I don't like it. Or, you know, that sort of, intellectual type of a search. And that I've been on for a long, long time where that was just the mental entertainment where I was entertaining or satisfying my, that was a pleasure to resonate with the message from different mouth said in a different language. And at some point, a friend challenged me on this one and she says, oh, you're okay. I mean, she didn't say it. I knew you still kind of seeking pleasure. You're not seeking the truth because seeking the truth does not need the mind to comment on what is more or less entertaining.
And at this point that that body mind was actually ready to drop the pleasure and focus on the message. And it happened to be one third of the time. And I was like, oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. And it happened to be one thirty seven minutes long talk that Bob gave in 2015. That was a German guy who filmed you. And I was just listening to that one talk to the point of exhaustion of the mind, which wanted constantly to be entertained.
And very, very soon after, probably a month or two after that, the sense of separation dropped in Bob's presence. So it's and I heard it also from other people. I mean, that initially there is that entertainment phase of the seeking and then comes the phase of the seeking where you don't really care about the mind that much anymore you don't really need that much that mind to be entertained because that that longing of a heart is heard much much more profoundly and wanting the truth rather than pleasure, it's it's jumps. That's what as I say the wanting of the heart that's where it resonates then it's true listening true hearing heart to heart what I call heart to heart not the physical heart but that's spontaneous heart essence that resonates with something that's resonating with the truth that it is.
Takes it from there. When it's head to head, it's true. When it's head to head, it's true. When it's head to head, it's true. head there is conflict because there's a conceptual image in each of our heads and then we're in conflict with each other but when it's open heart and you know what heart to heart is because many times you felt when you've said something had a conversation with somebody and it was benefiting both sides and you'll start to relate it afterwards my heart went out to them what were you talking about your physical heart or that sense of resonant you know what it means yes yes also another aspect of guru shopping which I really really enjoyed was the fact that they were using different words to describe the same thing and because I was always enjoying translating between Christianity and Buddhism between Zen and certain philosophies it was exciting intellectually but equally often I've seen the same trait confusing people to the madness why is he saying that there is only now and why is this one saying the no that now doesn't exist like well who is right which one is right well in the realm of language everyone is right and nobody's right because it's not the words that they're pointing to but what sits beyond and what that one understands by saying this particular phrase may be completely different what you take it to be so it is again the life takes you where it takes you some people will do intellectual guru shopping forever and that's perfect and it's nothing can be done about it and it not nothing needs to be done about it and it doesn't mean that it has to be happening in the way that first like you were seeking all over Christianity books and different programs and then single focus and one guide and I happen to have it the same way.
Thank you. It may be completely opposite for other people or it may be guidance coming in a dream or it may be just opening the mind in the moment of a walk through the park like there's completely no rule. Nothing right or wrong. And Jesse said beautiful words on guru through here just love friendship with Bob thought he is the last stop for me that's so beautiful and beautiful and respectful. Yes. For me too and for many many others. And the friendship that is priceless. The fact that you can actually have that friendship with someone who completely transform your life and and it's still so beautifully human and warm and loving.
That's a red jewel and Sonja says yes so much resonance one day I would like to write an on Juweli. Especially if you are into knowledge. book or blog. Yeah, life moves you, wonderful. God says, what do I do? If it is what happens, do I have to hate myself? Because lack of commitment to truth with lack earnestness? Who is the self? When you say myself, you're talking about a personal self. Yeah. See, in all the scriptures, all the traditions will tell you there's only one self, Atma. And since we say myself, we've set it up as a personal self. If you've got that belief there, have a question of who's this person?
Who is this I? Yeah, that wants to hate oneself. Who wants to hate who? For lack of earnestness or lack of commitment. It's not in your hands. If the commitment or earnestness is not there, that's exactly what life wants in this moment. And I am is just a concept or a thought you have about yourself. If you haven't got that concept or thought, what are you? You're still not unaware. You're still aware. You're still conscious and aware and still happy to be without the thought. And a breakthrough happens, I don't know how much often or less often, but without commitment and earnestness as well. Yeah.
So what's the other thing? Oh, the next part you are probably saying is, so when I was speaking, about the self, it's telling me that the self-realization process is not a necessary part of the seeking. Seeking is not a necessary part of awakening. It's a moment-to-moment recognition, like you may not know it, or not believe it, or not think that you're not experiencing it, but everything is that one life, patterning, shaping, forming. So you are that too. You can't be. It's impossible to be otherwise. Even the thoughts, No, No, I'm separate ego. Even that thought, So whether there is earnestness, or whether there is self-hatred, or whether there is an idea that oh I should stop this or start that, all those ideas they are that, they are expression of that one energy.
Just hold space for all those ideas and don't worry about anything really. Yeah, have a look at the absolute again, or the great perfection, that's another term, absolute. And they tell you in the Buddhist texts the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. There it is in one sentence. That awareness without putting any labels or concepts on it. What's wrong with right now if you're not even thinking that, you know? There's still the awareness there, non-conceptual. That's it. Jessie, karma is a religious concept, key in Hinduism. No personal karma exists. One can be very grateful for that, I think. Thank you, Jessie. Thank you. Tanya, don't believe the mind or thought is serious.
Thoughts are just passing like clouds and nothing to do with you. Same goes for sensations, emotions. So, awestruck and amazed at how life is expressing. As I said earlier, everything, all the things that happen in this day and age are things, thoughts of things. They are. Yes. Yes. Yes. Amen. Karma, doership is there in dream. When there is no dreamer, it doesn't exist at all. Yes. Well, now when you're not dreaming, where's the dream pattern? You realize this is a waking dream, seeming continues every morning of where it left off the night before. How can you believe it? Something real and lasting. Yes. Yes. Karmic, the Karmic, karma in the dream, or karma, you know?
Karmic, in the dream. Yes. in the Awakening or karma in religion, I think it's good to remember that in a whole bigger scheme of things religion had also a function of regulating social relations because no other means, governments or ethics could actually provide that function. So karma is kind of keeping people wanting to do the good deeds just like in Christianity the threat of hell is making people who have the illusion of free will and choices seemingly make better choices. So it is part of the play so if you want to believe in karma in that sense nothing wrong in any beliefs but you can actually see that everything has its place in the manifestation, every concept is pointing to something and it's and it's mind-blowing like Tanya says it's uh awestruck and amazed how how it all plays out this is simply beautiful doesn't have to be believed if it's seen true and that's the freedom like Jesse says it's really personal karma cause and effect and relativity yeah can't be an effect without a cause can't be a cause without the effect hmm relating yeah dualism non-jewel just as it is now Julia says I'm grateful that words are much more my slave than my master they used to be the master they used to be but I still have the pattern of living in the train of thought I would have stopped it already if I could have can you please can you please talk some more about this I still get a sense that some sort of living in stillness is supposed to arise don't you live in stillness underneath that storm on the surface on the surface you have the thoughts you have ideas you have concepts discussing stuff with concepts and narratives beating one another and whatever is happening but that all is happening in stillness all the time take the eye out and be there stillness be the livingness you are the life itself and everything is changing all the time but the idea of supposed to is quite contrived because if life has it this LA t there is stillness if life doesn't there isn't I mean the stillness always is but the experiencing of it I don't know if that answers the question but Have you ever anything at all?
yes do feel around man one orway your animals have it but I mean that my experience of it I don't know but you do actually feel free to make your mind around an incredibly Hari but isn't that how it free to call us anytime and we appreciate it Tanya says yes I'm a not so true so much love overflowing for all and I love talking to anyone this days as there is love felt because they are what I am all is that so beautiful yeah that's a nice the rose-colored glasses honey honeymoon period where the transition just occur and the lightness is so impossible to me because after a few years you kind of get used to it take it for granted but the initial first six months a year or a year and a half is blissful because you were carrying hundred tons of of illusions over your back connected the idea of me being deficient and unlovable and unworthy and now when the me is gone all that ideas are gone with it and everything's beautiful and everyone is beautiful you're not sick with listening to people's stories because that's you on the other side of the mirror beautiful I'm enough nice are good at a maharaj said whole universe is our guru when concept of guru is lost into self universal reverence it if reverence is there for all creation beautiful as he says if you're scared enough you can learn from every possible way yes yes and I always felt you know I was an early teenager when I went to the forest and learn how to listen to the forest just by selecting one bird at the time focusing attention that one bird and then finding another one and eventually hearing overwhelming orchestral sounds and it's just wonderful it's amazing how grateful I am for you and thank you for coming here to chat with us thank you very much let's talk a little bit about enlightenment how much you can learn about enlightenment from the bird or from the ocean or the night sky throughout everything and nothing is equalized in non duality everything and nothing cancel each other out I am that and not that you are that and not that to the idea that you are that because then you conceptualize that as an object.
That's absolutely. There's no one as it sticks. That's right. And Adrian says, it appears there are still. It appears they are still. Yeah, it appears. How amazing. There could have been nothing. There could have been no appearance. And we have that magnificent display. How amazing. And John David, the path of devotion is really understood through this teaching. Love says, I'm everything. At the beginning of the search, that was a quote from Nisargadatta, love says I'm everything. At the beginning of the search, I was looking for relief from suffering and found the no-thinkness. I found no-thinkness, a great relief. I am now putting to the test that I am everything.
And I'm finding the heart becoming a lot more tender. Yeah, that's what's happening. Yeah, you recognize that everything is also the no-thing. So it's inevitably that's what you are, the everything. Goss Paul, look into the self with no concept or expectations, just be. Yes. Jessie, brilliant cut. You speak incredibly well about all this. Yes. Thank you. Wow. And Adrian, it appears there are still reactions that come up. Example, like an irritation or frustration. But they dissolve much quicker now and don't stick. Does this suggest there is still a self-centered there? I don't like to call them reactions. We call them responses. Response is a natural reaction.
Comes from your relating to this feeling. You know, the odd year of a separate entity that's being affected or being hurt. Yeah, so Adrian says, does this suggest there is still a self-centered there? It feels a lot looser. Well, there never was a self-centered. There was only an illusion of one. So if it feels like there is that illusion of self-centered, look and see if you can find it. Yeah. There wasn't ever a self-centered. You never had an ego. So you still don't know. Yeah. You don't have it. And if some reaction patterns or responses are still strong, how natural is that? If you practice certain responses for all your life, and then even though the understanding is there, the responses are still, gosh, what's a good example?
Like animals, as usually. When you look at the animals, you take traumatized dogs. And the dog doesn't have an ego. And how much, how long does it take to break the pattern of biting or hiding or squeaking if the dog was severely traumatized, even though there is no ego? So you may have habit patterns or reaction patterns that still didn't break because they are strong patterns. They are neural pathways that are like highways. So they, it takes a while to rewire that habitual responses. Yeah. Yeah. And just, yeah, just be patient, be loving, see them as impersonal. Don't, because the trap or the temptation is to feel, oh, this is wrong.
I shouldn't. Nope. Dogs get irritated. I can tell your cats get frustrated. I can very easily kind of prompt them to feel. If you let the responses or reactions, whatever you like to call them, happen, they're just spontaneous. Yeah. And they're very spontaneous. They're very, very good, and they're very, very good. They are very, very, very good. They're very, very good. I've just noticed that. They don't have a lot of patience. They're very, very, very, very good. Mm. I have no idea how to explain it. I don't know what their mind is, before you can relate them to the conceptual image. Yeah. Don't want them away.
Don't wish them away. Just be loving and patient towards that. You know, if there is an irritation, there is a part of you deeply in your heart that wants good for you and is kind of a little bit maybe frustrated, disappointed that that good didn't happen. It is another way self-love expresses. But yeah, if you don't wish them away, who knows? Your temperament might be different. self-love expresses. But yeah, if you don't wish them away, who knows, your temperament might be such that people say, you know, the passion of Nisargadatta looked like anger. And he had it till his 80s. And why would he want to get rid of it?
Why want to change anything? Things will change anyway. But there is definitely no self-centre, no. I'm enough. My reverence and love to both Bob and Kat at your feet. Tito. Yeah, it's we equal. We equal. You are equal. Bob's equal. That's, yeah, that's when my friendship with Bob became possible. When I stopped seeing him as a superhuman, enlightened... He wasn't a man because of the conflict. He was a man. He was a man. He was a man. He was a man. He was a man. He was a man. Same concepts that I had. But when the concepts dropped, everything's equal. And Brad, what is the main difference between your non-duality and Buddhism?
Does the Buddha say even the God presence is not real? No difference at all really. When you look into them deeply, they all say the one thing. But it gets bastardised by different concepts put on it. Yeah, again, the religion, I mean the origins of Buddhism and origins of Christianity and origins of Hinduism, they all like, you know, you've got the Advaita, you've got the esoterics, you've got Sufism, the roots are pointing to the same one essence. But the religion, because of its socio-economic function as well, creates the concepts. Like, Buddhism has the concept of reincarnation, which of course is the concept of future time and other things which non-duality doesn't really go there.
We don't go into the imagination, we want the truth. And future and past are imagined because they are not present right now in other form than a thought or concept or image. That's what I say, you know. I'm not a Christian, I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Buddhist. Or what some of the others are – I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a Buddhist. I'm not a Christian. None of those things. I cannot take bits and pieces out of each of those things.
Little… what do you call it? One-liners. Of truth, yeah. Pointers, little pearls. Little pointers of truth that resonate and utilize them – not a Hebrew or any of those things. But in each and every one of them you can find little snippets that are the And in each and every person you can find the snippets that they are the truth. Even people who never heard about any religion or any non-Jewish. Yes, exactly. Because the base of it, that life, is innately there. It does shine as a truth. You can hear it from the child. So to say Buddhism is better than Hebrewism or Muslim. It's like a mob of us worshiping a football team.
My team is better than your team. Yeah, my country than your country. My daddy is stronger than yours. Brett says, Good morning Bob and Kat. What a wonderful day. I wrote this and listened to your sound vibrations. Worry arises when we wait within what was or what will. We regret the passing of presence into past or projection. We surrender to circumstances. We have sorrow when we stare at the shadow of should have. And we cover in the cloud of clothes, clutch of clothes called could be. Past, present, projection. One sin, one being, one jewel, non-jewel. Beautiful. Yeah, Brett has this beautifully poetic ways of presenting it.
I hope it will show up in a solid form of a book or poetry. Yeah, it's exquisite. Julia says, Thank you, that helped. And Ben, I find it's kind of like the nose on your face. When you look straight at it, there seems to be a vague outline. But you can never really see it. And most of the time, when you are looking straight ahead, um, when you look, when you're looking straight ahead, you don't see it at all. Hope that makes some sense. Yes, it's a good expression. It is a good expression. Yeah. You're right. And Adrian says, Thanks. That's a very loving answer.
And Amarna, beautiful cat. There is, was, will be self-centered for anyone. No mind was there for anyone. Hmm. Luca? Yeah. That example about dogs was so helpful. Yeah, that's an example about dogs. Dogs. Dogs, yes. I mentioned the habit patterns. That is one of my favorite pointers when Bob actually, sometimes the part of the spiel is showing the tiger and its stripes. How life created that camouflage for the animal. How that innate intelligence shows up in the nature. How the planet doesn't think where to go, but it still keeps its orbit. That nature, that example of animals that don't have an ego, or planets, or wind, or everything.
I never heard it in anyone, and I was guru shopping. So that was something that really blew my mind because the, um, the verification is instantaneous. Like, you know, is there a habit pattern? Yes, there is. Okay. Does it mean that I have an ego? Look, if the cat or dog or, or bear or chimpanzee has that habit pattern, it means that's nature. The ego is only... Words, concepts. Believed in narrative. Yeah. The only difference between us and the animals is the narrative. And of course the consequence of the, of the, the way the body is built that we can achieve all that, uh, technology and, uh, that's, uh, chatrath.
Why do sages try to help people wake up if nothing really matters? I like those questions. It's a spontaneous happening. Yes. Why birds sing. Yeah. The bird is singing, the dog is barking, the sage is helping. Like, people said to me when I came back to this, this, this, I got to tell you to talk. And I says, no. And if he had told me not to talk, he couldn't have stopped it either. Yeah. It just had to flow out. Mm. Couldn't help. You want to shout it from the housetops. Yeah. But nobody listens anyway, so it doesn't really matter. It just comes out spontaneously.
It's always self to self talk. And trying to help people does not mean that we think people are broken and need fixing. No, it's just our song. We sing it because we do. And everything's already perfect. Nobody needs fixing. But sometimes a little bit of reminder is helpful. Why we do it? Why? The question why, the old questions why, I like them because they, they honest. But they also a great opportunity to see how every question why take you back to the conceptualizing and dwelling in the mind. Because life is mystery. The why is mystery. Life is mystery. The why is, there is no answer to why.
It is what it is. But intellect always offers a lot of beautiful stories. Ah, this is because of that. Oh, because of that. The why is, if one could be vigilant or aware or alert to their own whys, that would be a really, really good way of getting out of the mind. Just like the shoulds. Yeah. And for the most part impotent. I am, I'm eggs. Yeah. I, just what I felt I could do. When you were about 9. Mmm, okay. Yeah. I think I celebrate. Love you both, love you Kat, thank you for continuing to share the good word. Thank you, Joan. Amarnath's answers to Cha, why sages try to help people wake up.
Help without helper. Beautiful. Help without helper. It's just like helping. I-N-G. And Cha Trav, nobody to hear it. So beautiful. Just like Kat today. That's so sweet, thank you. And that's it for questions, no? So there's some good understanding already out there. Yes. Yes, that's really, that is really beautiful to see the insights that you guys sharing. That is so heartwarming. And good to see people starting to question and speak up now. Yes. Where before nobody seemed to want to. To. Yeah. Yeah. It seems to have, you know, that format. Because we used to have group meetings at home. And obviously the home we have 31 people with us right now.
That home usually accommodates about 10, maybe 15. And being in presence of each other people are feeling shy. And here the questions being typed, the sharing is being typed. So it is easier. We did have people asking when are we going to have this kind of more comfortable physical setup where people can show up and be in your presence, but it doesn't seem to happen anytime soon. Julia says, the understanding on this end is thank to you. Thank you both. Thank you, Julia. Yeah, thank you so much, Bobcat, everyone. So much love. That's Tanya. I think we're done. We're coming towards the lunchtime because people say thank you.
Thank you, everyone. It really, I can tell you, it just, it lift my heart to see how it lift Bob's heart, to see how people open up and share. Every Sunday lunch, we are having a beautiful mood and he says, oh, they're really getting clear. Oh, they're really getting it. This is just priceless. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Very simple. Yeah, very simple. Now we're all paying it up. Yes, yes, we have thank you messages. There is, Adrian says, the life essence is still running Bob pretty well. It is. And Tim, is awareness a faculty of the body or does the body exist in awareness?
Everything is in existence, is in awareness. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. Awareness patterns, it's the pattern shapes and forms and expresses as everything. Yes. Yes, so the body exists in awareness. Certain form of like consciousness or narrative is the faculty of the body, but not the life essence, because the life essence existed even when the body was just two cells connected together, or even one cell in one parent and another cell in another parent.
That life already existed. Right. that awareness, innate intelligence existed. And that intelligence of life formed that body out of that fetus. And reincarnation. Chatrev says reincarnation is real because we are all incarnations, but only in this dream we call life. The one life incarnates in all the forms, in all the forms of trees and clouds and thoughts and bodies. So we can call it collective incarnation, not reincarnation, because it doesn't incarnate twice into the same form. Yeah, it's all spontaneous. Hasn't got any time, not time bound. So, thank you everyone. Thank you. I'm gonna shut her down. Have a great day.