Sailor Bob - nonduality. Seer and seen are one seeING

Mm-hmm. Good morning everyone, if there is anyone. Can't see you there? Yes. Yes, just go for it. Everyone and the only one. That's the basis. There is only one essence, that's apparently, and appearing as everything. Nothing separate from it at all. We've taken on this idea that we are separate of these individuals, persons. This is the problem. But there appears to be separation, and it has to be that way. Because the appearance is not the reality. The reality is the essence, that's vibrating through it all, patterning, shaping, forming everything. And you and I are things, as well as all the other things. That's all there is, appear to be, are things.

Some thing come from nothing. You realise it can't. So all the things that appear to be, are things. And the no-thing is the everything. And you and I are that everything. Though we appear to be different. And the allergies are that, like the water, the sea, the ocean appears to be blue. But the water is never blue. The sky, the space, the emptiness appears to be blue. But it never was, never will be. The water in the mirage. The snake in the rope. They point this out in all the different great texts and scriptures. The manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be.

So the appearance is not the reality, but the essence. That is, the vibration, or the somewhat of a movement, or spontaneity, or whatever you like to call it. It vibrates into patterns, shapes and forms. Like on the ocean, the movement that is in it, the vibration or the energy which causes a ripple, a wave, or a tsunami, or something else. There was still never anything other than water. And water was never anything other than hydrogen and oxygen. And what it was before that, I don't know. But the physicists and scientists will be able to tell you that, what it is. It comes back. Essence. That this whole manifestation, the amazing and wonderful ways that patterns, shapes and forms and expressions.

And the mind will use, divides us into dualistic appearances, patterns, shapes and forms. And puts the different words, the labels on it. The label, or the word, is not the real. And that word water will never be water. And word fire will never be able to heat yourself. And this word, I and me, never was, never will be, or never could be a person. Person comes from a word we picked up, persona, a mask, an ancient language we've learnt. And it's changed over the seeming concept of time. And that's all time is, is a mental concept. We'll say another thought right here. I pointed out that it's a cognising emptiness.

We think we cognise or know the emptiness, but it's not. It's the emptiness itself. Through all the vibration, there seems somewhat of a movement. Seeming movement, sorry. To shape, shimmer, form, whatever. Into all these images, labels, which we take to be the person. Now, this body, the mind, which is a vibration of energy which is broken down into nothing. And the labels we put on it, could those words, if it wasn't for us, the functioning of this parent body, expressing through it, could there be, could the words come from the absolute? The words are the absolute, but could, in the absolute, as it is absolute, could it express any words without a pattern to express through it?

Could sounds, feelings or emotions? It's only that, and that's all there is. And that's, when you might get an understanding of some of these scriptures we read, and see, and that have been written by patterns of energy, persons, so-called persons, or individuals, that have been able to recognise and put us into different worlds. And they used to tell you in the beginning was the Word. That's when it all began, seemingly began, with the Word. The Word was with God. And the Word was God. That's the whole thing. That this thing we call God is just a word, or a label. But instead of seeing it as just a word or a label, that's meaning everything, it's a cognising emptiness, we take it to be a person now.

That God is a greater power, a bigger power, or a supreme being. And all these concepts of words are divided up. But it's still only the absolute. And the absolute, you can't go anything beyond the absolute, or anything less than the absolute. So everything that appears in the absolute is the absolute. And you and I are the absolute. But we've taken ourselves with the words, seemingly dividing and separating it, into something separate and apart from it. And we've labelled ourselves less than that. And when we label ourselves less than that, we've set ourselves up for that. Unhappiness, the fear, the depression, the guilt, the shame, because we've always seen something, or believed something, as superior, or higher, or a greater power.

But absolute is the one power that's patterning, shaping, informing, and expressing as everything. And that's that cognising emptiness. That's... It's expressing that. Not the person, nor the thing in it, or the emptiness itself. It's cognising it. Not that we are cognising emptiness. And the Buddha told you that. One of those... That emptiness is forming all this. So it's nothing but the basic space, and the silence, and the stillness. I'm putting labels on those things, which are... We can label emptiness, which is another label, that's patterning, shaping, informing, and everything. But it's just movement, somewhat of a movement, in this thing we call the world. The world itself is that absolute vibrating and expressing.

And the marriage of ways is patterning, shapes, and forms, and expresses. So when they talk about non-duality, that's what they're getting to. Meaning. And that's what needs to be understood. That there's only the One. That I, me, Bob, was never a person. Never a separate entity. Though that belief was there. For many years. And the psychological suffering was there because of that. And the habitual patterns I took on, and things like that. And the belief that I could run the show, and all the different things that came about without that belief. The fear, the angst, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, remorse, the jealousy, the envy.

All these things came up. And energy and belief goes into them. All words, concepts. The thoughts became feelings, sensations. And the sensations, feelings and sensations became the emotions. And the emotions were seemingly something solid. Individual and personal. But nothing has ever happened. Nothing will ever happen. But the happening, the seeming happening, is constantly occurring. Constantly transient, changing. It's ever changing, but never changing. Seeming, what we call a vibration. A movement of energy. I call it intelligence energy. I don't use that term. God. The label. God. Because as soon as I got that label on, I got the idea that it's something greater than I am.

But it's in the shape and form of a human form. God made man in his image and likeness. So we think God's in shape and form of a human being. A bigger one, a greater one. But it's not so. The image is just, and the likeness is just like a reflection in the mirror. A reflection. Everything is reflection. Images, mental images. Conceptual images. Mind is the one essence. There's no such thing as mind. Thoughts, feelings and emotions. The same is in how it manifests. Thought, feeling and emotion is the way the words come about. And the thought, and then they come feelings and then emotion.

Just like in the patterning, shaping, shaping, patterning, shaping, forming of the world. Steam, water and ice. Steam, very, very subtle. Then it solidifies when it curls down and becomes a cloud, then water and then ice. The ice is seemingly solid. So, as we call it, spirit and matter. Spirit is essence. Something that's very, very subtle. And when it becomes matter or material, it becomes seemingly solid if it solidifies. Just like blood will congeal and become something solid. And the water will congeal and become something like ice. So, this world, the mountains, the rivers and everything else are seemingly matter. And we think we are these matter.

We are these matter, these human forms. But we're nothing but spirit. Nothing but spirit. Spirit doesn't know matter. It can never know matter. And it's seemingly taken on board. Through the words we've learned. The word is not the word. And before you had any words, what could you say about yourself? And when didn't you have any words? For the first couple of years of your life. What we call this life. I had no words. But you were functioning without the word. Now the word's very useful. Because we learn so many things by the word. And still, in utilising words and thoughts and ideas, still inventing and, what do you call it, evolving the words.

Very useful. But it's like everything else. It's only a vibration. And it vibrates always in the opposites. To give duality, to understand non-duality, there's got to be duality. To understand duality, there's got to be non-duality. The words are vibrating into the opposites. And we need to see everything else. What's your so-called thing called mind? What's mind? Is there anything other than thought? Is it anything other than thought? And what is thought? Thought's a vibration, a movement of energy. And what's your so-called mind? It's the health vibrates. It's good, it's bad, it's pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. Positive and negative with the words we put on it.

And the words are the boundary. The boundaries in which we encase it. This believes in pattern. We are the persona. A person, persona, the mask. So we've got a mask of concepts, images. Which is seemingly solid and real. But when it's broken down, how solid is it? When you break the word down into its essence of energy, what is it? It's like when you go out there and the cloud is broken down into its essence, which is water. How did it become a cloud? Well, the radiance of the sun evaporates and forms a cloud. The cloud cools down and solidifies and seemingly obscures the sun, which radiates and forms it.

But you know the sun has never left the sky. And you know when there is no sun in certain parts of the sky, where it's just shining, where there's no clouds in certain parts of the sky, there's much more clarity there. And when there's no thoughts clouding the mind and seemingly blocking it, there is much more clarity in that pure intelligence energy that's there behind the thoughts of the mind. And in that clarity, there is a sense of well-being, being well, a sense of joy, a fear, an understanding or recognizing of the non-dual essence, the reality that you are. And that's, you've relieved yourself of the burden of concepts, of thoughts, feelings, emotions.

Because that is the basic screen in which everything appears, plays around and disappears. And it's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, expressing and appearing and it's everything. And you are that. Now, in the manifestation with these words, the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, comes about because we've taken these words to be real. The word can never be the thing. But without the word, have you disappeared? You go to sleep at night and there's no words going on. No words going on, what's there? Unless you dream, you don't. You don't realize or know what's going on. Yet, through the waking state, you recognize that while you were asleep, you would have had to be breathing.

Your heart would have had to be beating, and it was. Cells were being broken down and renewed. All those foods being digested, air and things, the functioning's still going on, without the word. Just the same as it's going on in the manifestation without the words. Until understanding and get some insights and grasp of it. The word needs to be there. For the feeling and emotion. And there needs to be a body to express through to form it. Though it's never divided from the totality. The form, emptiness is forming. And the form is never anything other than the emptiness. So all these patterns, shapes and forms are that emptiness only appearing as different.

And we take the appearance to be real. And in the play of it all, they call it the play of consciousness. Shiva Shakti. Shiva, the static aspect, the pure intelligence entity or all the others. Shakti vibrates. Vibrates is a subtle, somewhat of a movement in it. Like gravity or something like that will cause a semi-vibrating, movement in it. And that movement is an activity. And it's the activity of knowing. Intelligence, energy. Is the godliness or the word. But you don't have to put the word on it necessarily. When you put the word on, on belief it will be something separate and apart. Something greater than what you or I am.

You or I am is that sense of presence. The I am-ness is this reality. And they tell you that in no matter. Which is again, the great mantra or the great reality is I am that. That is a word. But that's a word that denotes everything is that. But we put different labels, we split the that into this thing and that thing and some other thing and put separate labels on it. But it's all that one. Non-dual. Essence. Playing, vibrating playing. Enjoying itself. Liking itself. Or disliking itself or doing whatever. There never was anything other than that. Something comes up. How does it function? Or something comes up.

And we like it. We like the likeness there, and disliking. The good, the bad, it's how it functions. We grasp it with a concept. I like this. This is what I like. This is what I... But we don't realise being transient is a real thing. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. There's nothing real about it. And it's going to change And naturally if there's something there we'd like, we've got this idea of realisation of what is it liberation freedom And we want that all the time.

Not realising that everything is transient and everything is changing and it's going to go and we don't want it to go. So what do we do? We resist it. Try and hang on to it. Try and keep it there. For no special reason. And do we respect the Self? Yeah. We're not. Not realising at this stage we can't keep it there because it's going to change. Now whatever we do, whatever we say, whatever we think, we realise it's going to change. We don't want it to go so we resist it. And resisting it, you're in conflict with it. Resistance is conflict. Try to keep it there.

Try to hold it there. And even though you're trying to hold it there as much as you possibly can, it's going to change, just like the same with your breath. Take a breath and in with breath. How long are you going to hold that? You'd like to keep that breath there forever because it's brought the air into your lungs. You felt good with that, there again. You hold it a while, that air becomes stale and utilises, going to change. But we want to keep it there because you've got to breathe out after a while. And the same with the thoughts. We try to hold those thoughts, resist them, stay to keep the good things.

But being transient, no matter how transient, no matter how hard you try, it's going to change. And in conflict, and with that conflict you're uneasing. Because when you're in conflict, you're uneasing. As things go on, you don't know what's going to come next. You're fearful or anxious about it, or fearful about it. So that sensation comes up, and that sensation is translated by the thought, this is fear, this is anxiety, this is guilt, this is stress. And that feeling becomes the emotion then. And that thought becomes the actuality. Of course, a sensation in your body becomes the emotion. So thought, feeling, emotion come up. Resistance, conflict, and emotion makes you feel uneasiness.

Fear is uneasiness, guilt, or not. That's dis-ease. So thought, feeling, emotion becomes dis-ease, uneasiness. Something comes up we don't like. Again we resist it. Again in conflict, and again dis-ease. So this is going on in our lives. We've lost sight of our true nature, which was there with us until we learnt words. And the words, instead of continuing to recognise, we've gone into the word and believed the word. Now where did the word fear or anger come from? Your parents told you that when that emotion came to you, that emotion came up. This is fear. And you start to realise yourself. You libel it yourself.

This is what I call it. My parents told me this is fear. This is what it is. This is what anger is. So we become fearful of anger. Now every time that sensation comes up, we go back into the old way we called it years ago. Fear and anger. Keep reinforcing it. Keep believing it. And now it seems something's sorted and real. But what happens if you say it's fresh again? Like everything is fresh and new. None of it is old. See it fresh and new. Instead of putting the old label, this is fear. See it as a sensation, a feeling. Where you put the emotion.

See it as a pure feeling. Instead of fear or anger, you might see it totally differently. And all your words and labels, you put them on things you see, you'll see them totally differently if you see them fresh and new. But we've put the old label on everything. All these feelings we've got, we put the old labels. We keep putting them on and keep believing in them. Instead of got one pure essence there, this absolute reality, now we've become this human being, broken ourselves down into the separate entity, the individual, the person. Keep reinforcing it. Keep building it there. And lost sight of our true nature.

Only conceptually. Only through the word. And only through the belief which is the word. And the belief that we are individuals. We are persons. We are not this totality. We're not this supreme being. We are not this absolute. We are something separate apart from it. And that is the cause of all our anxieties. All our psychological suffering. And the effects are the fear, the anxiety, the fear, the anxiety of that cause. Cause and effect. Karma. So call, cause and effect. If I recognise that I am the totality, uncaused totality, the absolute, can there be an effect if it's not related to a cause? If I recognise there is no cause, am I going to keep believing in a cause?

And I say where did this word belief come from? If I look up the dictionary definition of belief, it is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Now it's taken, the word's taken to be real. And the real is the one essence, patented shape and form, and that experience is everything. Everything is real, but not as it appears. It's the one reality appearing as everything. So the reality, the absolute, is totally there all the time, but not as it appears. So when you can see its appearance and recognise, you can see through the appearance.

The appearance can be seen through. And in seeing through it, what must you be left with? You must be left with the real in which it appears on. And that's who you are. You are that thatness. Innately you know the thatness. Everything is that. You know that I am that because you say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that is me, that is you. It's all that one essence. We innately know that it's one essence which we put the labels on, which you've discriminated. Turned it around, divided it up into the many. One is seemingly many, but the many is only the one.

Form is seemingly emptiness, but emptiness is form. Seemingly so. So it's never moved away from. So it means we don't have to discard the word, we have to see it for what it is. But recognise without the word, without the word, you are still that pure existence. You're pure, that pure knowing. You're still breathing, your heart's still beating. And the basic. Words are I Am, that sense of presence translates through the mind as the thought I Am. And the subtle vibration has formed the world and everything in it. The ancients will tell you, it's that om sound. In the beginning was a word, there was a word of sound.

Sound is vibration, and that has vibrated. And from that original sound patterns form, words are formed. Words were formed, everything was formed, simply formed and everything plays around and disappears again, constantly transient. And recognise your true nature and you don't have to... and abide as that. And that's what it's called enlightenment or realisation. Not that we've attained something or become something and got to something because the attaining and getting and adding to is keeping you in duality. It's discarding all the rubbish we've picked up along the way and bringing it back to its basic essence which is the liberation. Relieving yourself of the burden of concepts.

Just to relieve, yeah? And you can relieve yourself quite easily. We say, how do you do it? Well there's no how about it, it just happened. You relieve yourself when you need to go to the toilet. If you're hungry you relieve yourself by feeding yourself. There's many ways of relieving yourself without any practices, without doing anything. Relax back into the silence and when you go to sleep everything has gone, disappeared but the functioning of life is still there, still functioning. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Relieve yourself of thought for a moment or two. Which you can't do but it'll happen if you just try and see, recognise what's there prior to that.

You see, you can't say it's good, you can't say it's bad, you can't say it's here, you can't say it's there. It's free of time, free of concepts, free of everything. Free of the word. The breathing is still happening, the seeing is still happening just like it was when you were born without the word and functioned for the first couple of years of your life. Without the word there was still that life. But it doesn't matter. You need to come out of that to express and see, to take part in the functioning of this universe, the way it's functioning, be a pattern that's helping in the functioning of it, helping in the living of it and the playing around of it.

Not as something separate, personal and has some independent nature. We take ourselves to be something independent. We think we have free will. But it's innate intelligence energy that's doing everything. Life. Call it life is another way we're called. And you are that life. Take that life out of that pattern of energy you call that body-mind right now, the life goes out of it. You're a corpse. Now what's that corpse, what's that body do without the life in it? Can't do anything at all. But it does happen, it starts to break down. It starts to integrate. Because the integration has stopped. That energy stops renewing itself.

But it stops and it breaks down. Where does it break down into? Can it break down anything past the emptiness or the stillness or the silence? What can you postulate or think of that's in the emptiness? That's outside of space. The emptiness. Or stillness. You can't postulate or think of anything because there can be nothing outside of it. Everything is in it. So it's that basic space and emptiness that's forming everything. You are that. So there are many of you have understood or understanding or recognising or knowing this or had taste of it. But there are many of us on the search. Still searching and trying to become something.

But we've taken the wrong direction. We're starting to look in the mind. Because our parents taught us words and we've looked to our parents and they told you. Your little Johnny or your little Billy or your little Jane or so and so. And you've got to become something. You've got to accumulate, add to, amass or whatever. Onto. Make yourself something. Get a good education, moral wealth, a better home, a quick car. Become. Become. Become. But becoming is not being. Being cannot be becoming. You are that pure being. And you know that because that's being it here. It's being a car. It's being here. It's being me.

It's being everything. It's being. And being is not becoming. And it is not what was-ing either. It's not the past. The was. It's not the future. Becoming. It just is. It's the is-ness. And you have never been anything other than that is-ness. Tell a little bit of investigation. It's not re-cognised. It's a cognising emptiness. And we are the emptiness itself is doing that cognising or knowing. But when it's seemingly obscured and lost sight of with the word it needs to be re-cognised. Re-cognised again and again and again. And tell them that it's called the cognising. Which is simply going. It's simply going on. It's what you actually are.

So you are that. I've rambled on enough and let Kate have a go. She can express it a different way. And some of you can express it yourselves. So if you can, have your say. And if you've got questions to ask, you don't ask. Ask a question. And we might put some light on the question to make it seem a different way. And then you might start to see it in a different way yourself. Let's get into it. Yeah, we had some questions. Hello everyone. We had some questions but I just can't move to read it again. There was a question from Tanya about anger.

Whether anger solidifies the ego. But I think John David answered it pretty well. But you may want to say a few words on this one. Whether the anger solidifies or anger solidifies the ego. Or any emotion doesn't really do much to the ego. It's the stories, the narrative that you go for. No. How can it solidify the ego when the ego is a total fiction? It never existed. Ego is that thought, I am, not in its purity when words are added to it. It might seemingly solidify it. But it can't. It might strengthen the belief in it in other words. It's just another sensation. And that sensation is still the same stick.

No, you're good. The same stick. There's no one-ended stick. We've tried to point it out by using that. Every stick's got two ends to it. And like the thoughts. The thoughts are always dividing. The good and bad. Pleasant, painful. Happy, sad. So it's the same. The good and the bad are not different. We differentiate into or discriminate with the word. But they're still the same. So the so-called ego or the anger comes up just how it's expressing in the moment. And sometimes anger might be a very useful instrument. If it wants you to get out of a tight situation or do something like that. And fear can be the same.

You can take fright and fear. But when you look at it personally, whatever happened. So the fears of opposites are useful. But they're destructive if we keep locking into them. So this is the answer I found. What John says to Tanya. How can something imaginary solidify? Is the anger there now? If so, will it be there in sleep? Where does it go? I have had a lot of anger arise at work recently. It gets the engine running. But without fuel, it can't continue to run. And Tanya says, yes, that is what I saw during our conversation. But don't like to disagree apparently. Laughing. No, the anger is not here now.

No, it will not be there in sleep for sure. Yes. It sure does get the engine running. But it doesn't last long, like you say. It has nearly run out of gas. Laughing. Yes, so you see, to actually have the anger running, you need a story. If you want to, because anger is the energy that comes up to fuel the body. Very often to create the fight-flight response or to just whatever action is necessary. But to keep it going, you need the story. You need to keep remembering, oh, she shouldn't be telling me that, or they shouldn't have done it, or I should have... You know, to actually have that energy, you need to imagine something in the head that will keep it, like fuel it with attention, with the story.

So it is the anger, the pure energy, or any other pure raw vibration in the body, doesn't do anything to the body or to the energy. Apart from the chemistry running up and down. But what is the ego? It's the story. It's the imaginary self there. So the story is what solidifies the ego, not the raw emotion. So the story can fuel the raw emotion to stay there. And the story can solidify the belief, to be precise, the belief in the story makes the ego. The ego seemingly real. Or the belief in the story of God makes God seemingly real. Or belief in the story in flat earth or whatever the belief is.

I think there were more questions. I'll just dig them up. One more. Hm? Yes, that next one. Yeah. Emotions are happening in... Emotions are happening in duality. Our own multiple shadows. But non-dual awareness doesn't know this at all. Though we call non-dual awareness. Yeah. Well you call it non-dual awareness or not. It's just pure awareness. Pure awareness. You know. Are you unaware right now? So you must be aware. You know, have a look at that. If you're aware right now, you're not saying non-dual awareness or dual awareness. But is there any time when it was not there? Could you have said anything? Thought anything or felt anything or wanted for that awareness?

What we call awareness and awareness is just a label too. Take that label off and it's just a non-duality. You'd still take that label off and what is it? Just isn't it? Take that off and what is it? Can't say it is not. It's... It's wordless, timeless, spaceless, bodyless, mindless, beyond, when, where, how, why or what. I know this is a story. I know this is a sweet comment from Joseph. When I listen to this dude, I imagine myself as unicellular and original and glad to migrate. And... Yeah, good. Enjoy the migration. Jessie says, anything can arise in this. And what does cannot be different.

Life unfolds impersonally. Acceptance is a great key to freedom. But it cannot be manufactured. Yeah, beautiful. You can't manufacture acceptance or force yourself to accept because there is still entity doing the action. Acceptance is something to be discovered that is already here. And the deeper you look, the more you find it. Nisargadatta Maharaj says, ultimate understanding is that there is no ultimate. There is no ultimate understanding. Amarant. Amarnath. Where intellect is completely lost or transcended as self. This we can say only after self-realization, which is there forever for every one of us. And Brett, good morning, Bob and Kat. Wonderful to swim in the sound of your wisdom.

Facebook connection extremely poor in the West today, but will maintain contact as long as possible. Bob, if possible, could you give me a spiel on seer seeing, seeing. I'm searching for clarity on this concept. Well, everybody is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, feeling, thinking. It's all going on right in this immediacy happening in the immediacy of this moment. Yeah, the seeing happening in the immediacy of this moment. It's translated. The seeing is happening right now. Everybody is seeing, but the thought comes up, I see. And the thought, I see, we form the subject. Me, Bob, the good fellow, whatever concept I got about myself, now believes it has the capacity of seeing, can see.

And I see the chair, the table, the sky, the flowers, I see all these other things. Seeing these things. So the thought, I see, has become the subject. Me, Bob, has become a subject now, instead of just a thought, a concept, or a word. And the chair, the table, everything has become the objects. Thought, word, and things. I bet we put on them. On anything of those things in appearing. If we didn't put the label on, couldn't there be any discrimination or separation from them? So you're seeing them, but without putting the word on. They're just pure seeing. And the seeing, the thought, I see, has become the subject.

The seeing, in the seeing. And the object has become, the thing has become the object in the seeing. So subject, object, are duality. But the actuality is the pure subjective seeing. Can there be a seer, the thought, I see, without seeing? There can't be. And can there be the seeing, the object, without seeing? There can't be. So subject, object, are duality. That doesn't, same applies to thinking, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. The ING, well, gives us, us up, pointing out that eating is an activity. It's something that's happening, right now. And without that activity, there can be no sleep. I'll add to it, if I can.

Can I add to it? You certainly can. I was explaining that part to my mum once, and she could actually see it, because when we were looking at a big aquarium with colourful fish, and she was looking at it, and I say, OK, so seeing, the scene, which is the aquarium, and the seer, which is you, cannot exist without each other. Because when we take away the scene, there's no seer, because there's nothing being seen. So they actually completely mingled, they're not separated. Or if I take away you, I said to my mum, who is seeing the aquarium? It doesn't exist. So seer and the scene, both, are completely dependent on each other.

But they are two ends of the same stick. The process, or the activity, or the capacity of seeing. On one end of that scene, the stick is my mother, on the other end is the beautiful big aquarium. So without the aquarium, the process of seeing doesn't take place. Without the seer or my mother, the process of seeing doesn't take place. But the seeing, the activity of seeing, needs the subject and object to be, to express through an us. But it is singular. It is singular. The seeing cannot happen without the two ends of the stick. The whole stick doesn't happen without the two ends of the stick.

And in the same way, every activity can be translated. And it's very, very easy to see that out in nature, when we say the wind is blowing. There is no wind that is blowing the leaves. There is just the action of the movement of the blowing. And the same when the river is flowing. There is no river as such. The flow is already the river flowing. And the movement of the earth, all of that actions, don't really have the entity that is performing it. Nobody does that performance. Same way we don't do the seeing. I can't say that I am doing the seeing. Because if I could, I, you know, it's not, like I can't keep my eyes open and stop seeing.

It's impossible. It is inherently, the capacity is there with the body. So seeing and sin are the two ends of the stick of seeing. Seeing is the body. Seeing is a process, is a movement, like raining or flowing in the river, like digestion, like growing the hair. So everything the same way happens in nature, singular activity, like Bob says, I-N-G, that's a singular activity going on. And mind comes into the picture and splits that activity into the doer and the deed. So now it's not seeing anymore. Now it's the me seeing, or my mum looking at that aquarium, looking at that aquarium. So it is now two things happening and it seems like that one process has now, now there is two.

From singularity, mind makes it a duality. And the same thing happened with fear, thinking, hearing, imagining, even imagination, and especially with thinking, Bob is illustrating it beautifully when he asks, do you know what your next thought is going to be? And nobody knows that. So you know that you are not thinking. The thoughts just appear. The thinking appears. The thinking takes its place. It flows. There's nobody doing it. So to actually start looking at the reality without that mental division is quite a sweet way of coming back home also. When, let's say, you walk down the street and you feel the body is walking, the walking, I-N-G, walking, not I do the walking, because there is no I that does it.

It's just the walking happening. The looking, the seeing, the recognizing, all of it is just actions happening. There is no duality, no division, because the fact that they cannot exist without one another, they cannot be standing up independently is a proof enough that separation is only fictitious. Only conceptual. Only performed by this funny little interpreting services that exercise that ideas and imagine that ideas to be real. The reality shows singularity. That can be observed. Let's see if there's more questions. Yeah, Amarnath says, activity without actor or any intentions. Here. You see it on the screen? Activity without actor or any intentions. Here. Activity without actor or any intentions.

And Jesse is answering to it without personal authorship. Yes, and Amarnath says, excellent both me and he or it lost completely as if they were never existing, but appearing to be so. Nisargadatta. Whatever I perceive, is not me. I am neither mirror nor reflections. That's all right. Well, have a look. Reflections are images in the mirror. So they're not here. And without reflections in the mirror, if there's no mirror, where can the reflections appear? That's right. So, whatever you perceive or perceive is neither the mirror. No other reflections. It is that. What can you say about it? Except that it is. He actually answers himself.

Amarnath answers, words are appearing in me, but I am beyond appearance and disappearance. Beautiful. Jane answers to it, narration appears only on the presence that you are. There is no me. That's just another part of the narration, the idea of me. And Amarnath says, words are appearing in me, but I am beyond appearance and disappearance. And I am beyond the presence of the world. And Amarnath, word or mind is nothing but imagined time-space person, like a cloud in the sky. What is that? I'll show you on the screen. Like a cloud in the sky. Today's Amarnath, today's solar eclipse is also an imagined world, just like our name or body-mind.

Actually, it's not. Magnificent Spear says, Jessie, and there is no doubt that I am not separate me, but anger still appears sometimes, and it takes me by surprise. Well, I think, no problem with sensation, right? That's Tanya. Maybe, well, and I say sometimes a storm can come in the sky, you know, by surprise, unexpected. And why not? It is, yeah, everything has its place. Only the idea that it is wrong, or it shouldn't be there, or it shouldn't be expected, or it shouldn't be experienced, is what causes suffering. I'm actually pretty happy with the rage coming up when Bob is in danger. I love it.

I love that sort of, you know, that energy that comes when you get intruders, or you get some threats over the phone, or anonymous letters, or stuff like this. And people that just, yeah, they're psychopaths. I actually enjoy the reaction of, uh, outrage. I understand the completely innocent, but I do enjoy the outrage. There's nothing wrong about it. It's, uh, it's the story that says that you should not have feelings, or you should only be, whatever, loving and happy all the time. Uh, that is what creates the, uh, the suffering. There's no solidification by a person dropping trauma as recently as five minutes ago. You can.

Yeah. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, became a way to explain it. Uh, when I told you last week, I was reading a book. It was words, words that are Tabii St craftsman times. Were you pissed off exacerbation is where, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and and, and and, and, and, and, and get rid of the momentary sense of time. And also, there would be traumas that actually condition the body so much that the learning is staying longer. And that's perfect too, because it is possible to drop the trauma in certain situations because it happens, and it is not possible in other situations because it doesn't happen.

And the idea that it should or it would be better if it does is again only an idea. Life resolves itself always. I mean, you know, like we, I think, spoke about it some time ago, about the trauma during the war that keeps you alert, keeps you vigilant. You need that sort of trauma that exaggerates the danger to help you survive. And again, who wants to survive? Who wants that to be any different? Who wants the trauma to be gone? That's the question. So it is all resolved. It's only the narrative always that argues with the reality. And for the situations when the trauma is there and it is debilitating the life, there also are solutions that usually come in one way or the other.

And the help is found in a longer run. And if it's not, the suffering may also have its play in the long run. And even in the awakening process. They're all just theories and stories. But life is the greatest intelligence. It's much, much, much greater intelligence than our understanding of it or giving meaning to it can ever be. You're reading your own? You're reading your own questions now on the screen? Which one? Yeah, this one. You read Julia about trauma. Now you have John. One of my favorite quotes by Nisargadatta in I Am That is, All is because you are. Grasp this point firmly and deeply and dwell on it repeatedly to realize this as absolute true is liberation.

Could you both comment on about all is because you are? Also, happy Father's Day. Well, it is because I am without that sense of presence. How could there be anything? Yeah. Yeah. There's no sense of presence. I am-ness there. Can there be anything other than that? Every sentient being has been your father and your mother. You are a sentient being right now or seemingly so. So you have been the father and the mother of everything. Much both ways. Tanya is saying there is a story. Yeah. She's saying there is a story about parenting and teaching my daughter how to behave or not behave, especially to do with her being angry.

I know she's not the doer. There is the idea I have to play the role of appearing to teach or keep daughter in life. Yeah. Yeah. If it's expressing Tanya and coming through you, your daughter will start to recognize the change in you. And then she might hear what you're actually saying. And you can actually, you got to point out things to people. If we didn't learn words, we wouldn't be able to communicate with each other. We had to learn words. But needs to see through that the words are not the truth. They can point to it. The truth is that absolute. And that's just a word too.

Without the word, the great perfection of the word, the great perfection of the absolute, it's points, gives a point to what you actually are. You are that is another word. What can you say without the word? Nothing. But you haven't stopped being. Yeah. And also you have done an idea of playing a role. Isn't that a beautiful idea? Yeah. Just enjoy the idea. But know that without that idea, the role will be played anyway. Because that's how nature designed it. Even if you stop thinking, what's wrong with right now if you don't think. Even if you stop thinking, that role will be played. Because that role does not depend on the idea.

It is inherent in the nature. But it can be enjoyed also. Like, yeah, ideas can be enjoyable. If you don't take them to be reality. Because then they bind you. And then you are enslaved by them. I think there's more here. Timothy asks, Is mindfulness, being present with whatever one is doing, a useful practice? Well, if you move to do it, do it. Yeah. Perfect answer. That's it. And just keep recognizing, is there such a thing as mindfulness? Yeah. There is another question here from God. Why in the scriptures they say one of millions are seekers? And among them, one of millions are self-realized? Well, that's plain to see.

Like, in the old days, there would be only one recognizer. But he couldn't pass. He could only pass on the message. And maybe in a small village, it would pass on to one and somebody else. And then they'd form each one to put their own message. Each one would put their own take on it and add to it in some case. And the basic truth of it would change the scriptures around to suit themselves. But out of that, there would be only a very few of the growth. But now, the means of communication have changed. One man in the village, there might be anybody else in that village.

There might be somebody else in the village that would pass it on. And so it was very hard to be communicated. And you see in Japan and China and Zen and the Buddhist teachings, there'd be one teacher where thousands would gather around. They're getting more and more people. And others would recognize it then. But the more and more it's communicated, and the clearer it is communicated, the more it'll recognize it. Yeah, there is another one. Why making efforts then, if very, very few will reach the goal? Yeah, why making efforts? If you're not moved to make efforts, don't. Where's that one? Yeah, this is... I'll have to find it on the screen.

Here. Why in the scriptures, why making efforts then, if very, very few will reach the goal? Well, what makes you make the effort from the start of? Those few that start really looking at this, if something moves you in that direction, then the effort will be made. In spite of yourselves, in spite of myself, I wasn't interested in any of this stuff. But it took me to it eventually. It took me through all the other things before, the traumas and dramas. I had to go on to make this pattern turn around and see it. And realize... I'm going to speed up because we have a lot of questions there.

Yeah, so there is no effort maker. Efforts appear and the best thing is not to take credit for it. If there is an effort, that's how life is leaving the body. There is no effort, that's how life is leaving the body. It may even appear that some river is making effort, but it doesn't. It just is the way it is. When it follows... Before it becomes a river, it follows the shape of the earth and spirit. It's not going to run up in. Yes. It just naturally follows where it's going to go. Yeah, Brett says, thank you for the seer seeing scene. Jessie says, good for you, Kat.

Perfectly said. Thank you. We are the elements, says Jane. And Tanya says, thank you so much. I see whatever sensations come up is what is. No need not to feel or say anything. It is true that it is only a story that thoughts or sensations should not appear. That's right. And Mukti says, trauma is the replaying... On the screen. On the screen. You have to slide it down if you like. Would you like to roll the mouse down? Here, you keep the mouse and ops, and roll it. So Mukti says, trauma is the replaying of a response out of the actual time, it occurred. It is not being able to allow the energy to play out.

And then, story being applied after the fact, trapping the energy. That's a good explanation of the trauma. What is the trauma? Yeah, the energy is being trapped. Amarnath, Ramana Maharshi says, all suffering is power capsule from God for us. And then, the emotional self-realization. That's a nice positive story. Mukti, there is a reason successful trauma therapy does not rely on talking. Oh, cool. And Judith has a question. What do you do with feelings that one is being manipulated, played or used? What do you do with such feelings? That one is being manipulated, used. When the feelings like this come up. Well, who is taking delivery of the feeling?

The conceptual images, you feel. The emotional, it's just pure feeling. Again, the sensation, if we put the label, it's me that's feeling. It's the pure sensation and feeling. Have a look at it and tell you. And you do what you do. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great answer. Judith, if you could just take the label of the feeling, like you feel manipulated. Okay, but forget about the word manipulated and go to your heart and see how it actually feels. What is that raw vibration? What is it? Is it grabbing your throat or is it making lumps in the guts or knots or something?

Just be with the sensation. And when you are with it, you may notice how there is a resistance to it. And what is that resistance? It's probably that part of you which doesn't want Judith to be manipulated or played out. It's love. This is pure self-love. So when you go to the bottom of the feeling and you see that resistance to it is your own self-care. And you stay with that because that's such a beautiful, soothing emotion knowing that part of you loves you and does not want you to feel like this. And just embrace that part of the feeling. Embrace that love part of the feeling.

And from there, the action comes. Have a look into the word. Man, impenetrable. Man is not the essence of being manipulable. It's believed in this person. And what are you doing, I think, is quite right. I mean, if you're really not sure whether you are a little bit paranoid or you are not completely convinced that the situation is really harmful for you, yeah, call us and have a double check. Because sometimes when we are vulnerable, we get off or we exaggerate things. It's just human nature. And you are a little bit vulnerable at this moment. But if there is no doubt that you are manipulated or controlled, because right now you're asking a question.

But if there is no doubt, you will just see Judith storming and defending or putting the walls or boundaries or whatever. You will see that action happen. But when there is a doubt, it is, I think, a little bit more. And I think really, really beneficial, especially in your situation, to embrace that part which shows you that there is that loving care inside that wants to give you a hug and say, Oh, I don't want anyone to take advantage of you. You know, that's beautiful. And with that, just really feeling of that, of that realization of self-love, things may resolve. And you may find that same love flowing out.

And that fear of being manipulated may actually disappear. You may find yourself quite generous. If you feed off that love, if you're full of it, it will overflow. It may even flow towards others. And I know you little Buddha, you want to be this way. But that's only when there is a doubt. Usually in a situation when you really are played out or manipulated. At least in your situation. At least as far as I know you, there wouldn't be a doubt. There wouldn't be a question. Because I've seen you in action. So there is Michael. Thanks so much, Bob and Kat. Love your Kat shirt.

Thank you. The Kat shirt Bob bought for me a couple of years ago. You remember? I have one more. A green one. Just wondering how powerful or advisable it is. Just not believe anything mind comes up with. Would correct action just come from that place of silence? Do we still need to assess what the mind comes up with? Yes, the correct action does come from silence sometimes. Not to believe in anything. Belief is never the actual. That's true. Question your beliefs. And see for yourself. And the very easy distinguish between what's helpful, what's not helpful is when the mind relates to the fictitious entity. Because mind will come with wonderful creative ideas.

Where you will... Mind is also... Mind, so called mind is not such a thing as mind. But the brain with the learning capacity, it may learn helpful tricks. Or even the things for you in your counseling career, you're learning. So all these things are wonderful and worthy of listening. But when the mind comes up with the things that it relates to the entity, that's probably the safe thing to do. Just question it. Don't believe it. Don't take it for granted. It's like... It was just the question Judith had. If there was really something dangerous going on, there wouldn't be a question. There would be action.

There's only word that doesn't come out of the silence. Because it's all sounds, it's all vibration. And Amarnath is answering to Tanya about the story of parenting and teaching. No role player at all. Awareness itself is the player. So there is no drama or play at all. Us, it itself is playing as mother and daughter. Yep. That's it. That's always the same life essence playing all of the roles. Playing the policeman and the teacher. Playing the thief and playing the mother and the daughter. And playing the enemies and friends and all of it. It's all the same life. Odeline, love you Uncle Bob. Odeline, it's happy Father's Day.

You've always been my father figure for past 34 years. Hi, love you. Yeah, that's the family. That's the family. Rohan says, all the world's a stage. And all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances. And one man in his time plays many parts. That's Shakespeare. Beautiful. Yeah, we can say how... I used to study Gurdjieff in my late teens, early twenties, where he was actually coming up with the idea of multiple I. We all have multiple I's. We have so many different I's. Different faces and roles. So many different personas projected in different situations. Like we are different for the school teachers and different for the students and parents and friends and enemies.

Those are all multiple I's. Almost as if there is no one me. There is hundreds of them living in here and exchanging. And one makes the promise and another one is expected to keep it. That's why we can't break addictions either. Any point you have, also? Nothing either good or bad, but thinking much is there. Yeah. Yeah, they're all helpful ideas. Judith says, I'm struggling to fight my pattern. I have gone back to sleep. I can't wake up. I know I am in a play and no matter how much I tell myself to wake up, I still want the drama. Take it on board. Let it run in.

Yeah. Well, if you see that you want the drama, who is the one who sees? You are already awake to the fact that you want the drama. You're already awake to the fact that the part of you is asleep and believing in the drama. So stay with that part that is awake and witnessing. See if you could actually, because what you are describing, both of it is going on. And that you, you've gone back to sleep. You can't wake up. Yeah, I am in a play. Yes, you are playing Judith who is a victim. Okay. But you are also witnessing that Judith being a victim.

So, hey, there is two of you going on right now. One is actually aware and awake of the other being asleep. Stay with the awake one. Laugh at the sleeping one. And love her too. Because that's an innocent child wanting not to be abused and taken advantage of. What a magnificent play. And she is putting a wink on the end of that. Yeah, glad to see that wink too, Judith. And Tanya says, without the idea. Yes, I noticed that parenting is happening a lot without thought. There is no need to try to figure out how to parent. Your response was the missing piece of the puzzle, so to speak.

Very grateful. Love you, Kat and Bob. We love you too. And Siddhartha, his name was Mike, wasn't it? He says, Gabor Matej says trauma is separation from self. Yeah, that's a nice positive story also. And Tanya says, yes, Amarnath, thank you. There is no role player. Awareness is the player. Awareness is responsible for all. Wow, yes, it is just a play as mother and daughter. Thank you for a great pointer. And Judith says, thank you. Perfect. I love it. And Michael says, thanks so much, Bob and Kat. Love you, Kat. Amarnath says, no judge or assessor, no judgment. All the world stage, Amarnath is answering to the quote of Shabana.

The quote of Shakespeare. But neither drama or players is for mind. It is beyond becoming and non-becoming. Yeah, there is no one who needs to become or not become or unbecome. You want to close the meeting? Are you trying to close the talk? I'm trying to get more up. There's no more up. No, there's no more up at this point. No. I love this. Good, terrific. Questioning and questions and answers coming up. So does everybody. Again, is grasping it pretty well. Good. And remember, it's going to take you wherever you've got to go. Must take you home, which you never left. So continue to recognise.

Yeah, that's the only thing apparently, seemingly one can do, because there is really no one to do anything. So no one can do anything. So it is just staying in that open, receptive space in which recognition happens on its own by itself. Because nobody can bring it about. But having that receptivity to it. And, yeah, well, all that needs to be done is just being. And that's already done. There's more there. Yeah, there is. Yeah, Rohan says, Kat, love your comment about there being many eyes. Which one would be right? Yeah, many eyes. Which one is right? That's a good one. I like that, I think.

And Tas says, thank you, Bob, for pointing to the veils. The truth that is shines through them and through you to me. Love you. Love you, Tas. And now we have thank you messages. So I guess we can kind of, everyone is happy to wrap it up. Thank you so much, everyone. Love to you all. So much. All like family. No separation. Not even one, that Tanya says. Exactly. Love to the rest of the family, wherever you may be, John David says. And Amanat says, when I become personal, I multiply. I. But if we are prior to that. Yeah? And we have a lot of other thanks and thank you.

I won't be reading all of it, probably. You won't? Yeah. And a quality? Hey, thank you, everyone. Beautiful. Just serves for you to come out of your shells. It's a good understanding of, a real recognition of it. Yes. Mukti says, thank you so much, Bob. so much bob and kat so grateful to sit with you both this morning love you guys love you too and jane thank you bob and kat she says cut by c i'm a little bit of a cat woman today and and love from jane yes and we have a lot of hearts coming up on the screen so yes have a good lunch everyone who is in our time zone happy father's day for all the fathers lots of love william too yeah hi bill and we had cliff with us and you'll you'll see probably bill you have never been aware of the absolute absence of awareness oh beauty you have never been aware of the absence of awareness that is so true good on you bill good on you bill off we go