Nonduality with Sailor Bob, 19th of Apr '20. Whatever comes up...

It's streaming now. Hmm? We're going. Going? Yep. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Good morning. The only one. That's all we talk about. The one, not even one. The non-duality of everything. Just imagine sitting here, in this room, in this, what we call, little suburb, in the state, in the country, on the earth, in space. Where else can you go? Try and separate any of it. Because that's our problem. You call it God, you can call it that if you like, but it'll never work. This thing to express itself and experience itself, it needs patterns, shapes and forms. And all the patterns, shapes and forms can be nothing other than it anyway.

So, the one, as they say, appears as the many. And the many is only the one. Buddha calls it a cognising emptiness. We think we have to cognise that emptiness. But it's the emptiness in what is forming all these patterns, shapes and forms. You and me. The human. The we is the emptiness forming. So it's the one essence all the time. Well, if it's the one essence and we are that, why should we ever be unhappy or miserable or fearful? If you know you are that one, would you want to miss out on anything that's going on? So you would know, the recognition would be there, or I hope it would be, I don't know whether it would or not, that any of this expression, it couldn't happen if it wasn't for what I am.

For that sense of presence, that beingness, that knowingness, that loving to be, which they call, you know, the beingness. That's what I am. And Hinduism is such an enanda. And as I said just a moment ago, it needs a pattern, shape and form to experience that expression. Now this particular pattern, shape and form is seemingly separate, is not separate. And it's experiencing all sorts of things and it has done for the, far back as this particular pattern can seemingly remember. When it took on the idea that it was separate, took on that, what they call an erroneous belief. A belief that is not true. And with that came the idea of a separate entity.

And I couldn't have even labelled it as that if I hadn't learned words. I'm saying I or me. But it's a, there was a difference. There was a difference. There was a difference. There were a number of words I'm using that this particular, that are coming out of this particular pattern's mouth. And even to say it as a mouth, it's got a mouth. Got a tongue, a voice, a body, body, voice and mind. That's another way they put it in the scripture. Body, voice and mind. Could there be a voice without the body? Could there be a sound? Could there be a voice without the body?

There could be a sound. if it wasn't expressing through his body. And is there such a thing as mind? I can't see anything solid and say this is mind if it wasn't for the sound, if it wasn't for the voice or the word. And every word that I've ever spoken or this particular pattern that I've ever spoken has been picked up, been learnt. We learn to enable it to express through the pattern. It's just, in other words, it's just vibration, sound that needs a voice to express through. It needs a mind to form the words, all the labels and whatever. How it expresses? Well, I'll tell you, right here and right now, I am that.

And there's been a... And that, this is another... That's the thing. Another label, if you like to put it, you call it God. As Isaiah says, Be still and know that I am is God. And it's there. Break it back down again. Be still and know that I am is. Be still and know that I... Be still. Be. Kitty cat. Can you not be? Basically, and that's another way of putting it, Chittananda, being, knowing and loving to be. Now, in the not knowing, could there be any knowing? So, in the knowing, is there really any not knowing? Chittananda, his existence, being, knowing, loving to be, anyone who is not being right now.

Ask yourself, am... Well, it wasn't Shakespeare who said to be or not to be. Humble? Was it? Yeah. Yeah, it was Shakespeare. His characters. I am being. I can't negate it. I can't say, I am not. So, if I'm not, I must be. That must... That beingness isness, another way of putting it. What is means something that's happening right in this immediacy. Right here, right now, wherever here and now is, and wherever you are will be here and now. Realise that? Always so, isn't it? If you go down the street, it'll still be here, it'll still be now. If you go across the seas, it'll be here and be now.

When they put you in the box, it'll be here and be now. So that beingness is here and now. Here and now-ness is always so. But it won't always have those concepts. Life essence is not functioning through the body. Can there be a voice? Can there be a word? Can there be a sound? And what's the basic screen before any of this comes about? Isn't it the silence? The stillness? Stillness is lack of movement. Silence is lack of sound. When the sounds come, does it destroy the silence? They just take place in the silence. They come out of the silence, where do they go? They're not going to.

And so when the voice stops, when you haven't got a voice there, what's going on? Has the life essence gone? No. Everything is still happening in its fullness. And to make it, give it some... differentiation, discrimination, we need the words. And before the voice comes on, there's sensations, sounds, senses. The sensations we translate into words. Fear, anger, depression, guilt, shame, remorse, unhappiness, love, hate. All sensations. Take them to be real. Put the label on, which we've learnt, how do you know you've got such a thing as hate there? How do you know? Well, there's a discriminating sensation comes up. Something moves on. Once the body flushes up or something like that, the heart beats a bit louder and all these things.

And we've learnt the word when we were children, and we've labelled this one as fear. This one as anger. This one as depression. This one as... This one as guilt. This one as love or this one as joy. We label all these sensations. And that's our problem. We put the label on, and every time it comes up now, instead of seeing these sensations as fresh and new and experiencing just in the presence as they... as is, we label it with the O. Oh, this is anger again. This is fear again. This is unhappiness again. And recognise that we're living from then, from a dead end.

And that's the image, a dead concept. Because those old sensations are dead. The sensations that are coming up now might be similar, very similar to the one that you could call it fear and anger again. But it's a fresher new one. Like everything in this manifestation, it's always fresh and new. No static point into it. And constantly relating to the dead image is the bondage of self. Because we call that image self. My self. And the scriptures will tell you there's only one self. Only one Atman. Only one self. It's the one self that's patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. So it's self-awareness. It's not a personal awareness.

It's self-hearing. Not a personal hearing. It's self-seeing. It's self-tasting, thinking, touching, smelling. What have we done? My self. I am seeing. I am hearing. I am tasting. I am touching. What's this personal self? It comes from persona. A mask. From the Latin language a thousand years ago, which we've added to it, made it seeming to a person. Put concepts onto it. A mask. You put a mask on your face, you know it's not your face, is it? And so the words will come to you. So the words will come through that mouthpiece. Or the mask you've put on now for the virus. To keep the virus out.

To keep the virus out. So we've got this mask of concepts. And we believe that mask is what we are. Because we reinforce it constantly. And the sad thing is, everybody else has done it. Our parents passed it on to us. We went to school. And they passed it on again in different variety. And everybody, all the school teachers, the masters and all the pupils, are learning the words and concepts. And each one gets different concepts on them. All relating to the conceptual image we have about ourselves. And the words. It's just adding. The word itself is just another vibration. Yes. Yes, that's sound. That's all the word is.

Sound. Vibration. Movement of energy. Being a vibration, it has a beginning somewhere, going to have an end somewhere, doesn't it? And what are the beginning and the end we put on the word? The stoppers. Good. Bad. Pleasant. Painful. Happy. Sad. Loving. Hating. They're the stoppers. They're the stoppers. Clunk, clunk, clunk against those boundaries. Take the word off, the boundary off, where's it going to go? It's going to slide back into the emptiness, isn't it? There's no stopper on it. It just disappears, swallowed up in the silence again. The vastness of the silence is such that it'll swallow everything up, and it does. And the movement, the same with the movement.

Put the boundaries on. It'll disappear back into the stillness again. Don't put the boundaries on it. So look at the word and see that the word's not the thing. The word water is not the word. You can't drink it. The word fire doesn't burn your mouth. You can't eat yourself with it. Have a look at the word I or me. The way it is now, unless we've investigated and seen it, it's me, Bob, the Australian. Somebody said something to me that I don't like. Somebody said something about this, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about this.

I don't know. Or they say there's something that I don't like. Good. This is Jane here saying, the old clunky mind working in the purse of opposites appearing on the stillness. Yeah. Exactly. It's not hard to recognize when the Buddha called it a cognizing emptiness, pointing out it's the emptiness that's doing the work. Yeah. And the cognizing, another term for cognizing, is knowing or awareing, if you like. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form. And it is cognizing that emptiness is happening by itself, it's forming all these patterns, shapes, words, ideas, and concepts. It's the emptiness or the stillness. It is reality.

Emptiness is form. And he pointed out that the form is not something other than anything. So even I've taken on this idea that I'm on the Australian and think I'm so wonderful and so great in the schema sense, I'm going to change the world or do something like that. How can an empty form change anything? We've taken on this, we're going to change it. But what about leaving it as it is? As in the world over the so-called, if you like to put the concept of time, marriage of years and different ages and ages, changed and continually changing, patterning, shaping, forming, reforming, blah. There'll be implosions, explosions, implosions, all sorts of things.

Change, transient, constantly transient, constantly vibrating and changing. That's the life of it. Life is movement, change, transient. The dead image we've got about ourselves doesn't change. We keep reinforcing and believing in it and taking it to be real and relating to it. And that relating to it, we're relating to the dead all the time. Do you think the dead can keep up with life? Can't, never can, never will. Like I use the analogy of taking a bucket of water out of the river, putting it on the bank. What happens to it? Doesn't it become still and stagnant? And rotten. Yeah, and rotten after a while.

No life in it. The oxygen will start to disappear out of it. Yeah. What about the river? It's got life, it's flowing. Might be in a flat part where it's hardly ever moving, but it's still slowly changing and moving. Going down through the forest, it's changing, the water. Sandy banks, rapids, everywhere, still places, till it merges back into the ocean, the water again. Where did it come from? The radiance of the sun evaporated it and formed a cloud. Gonna take it up into the space and to cool it down and bring it down. So it kept constantly renewing itself. And life lives on life, as Nisargadatta tells you.

He says there's only life, not a personal life. He doesn't add that to it, but he could have quite well and showed them that's what he meant. There's nobody, nobody, no mind, no thing can live a life. Life lives on life. And out of life, more life continually comes. And see that, look around. There's a pine tree outside in the yard, got thousands of pine cones, hundreds of pine cones on them. Each of those pine cones has got hundreds of seeds on them. And each of those seeds has the potential of life in each one of those seeds to cover the earth in trees. If one, out of one tree more seeds come, they can cover the earth in trees, totally.

How many sperms were released before the one that reached the ovum of your mother and formed you? How many eggs did your mother have? The potential was there for you and me and there is more. Out of life, more life comes. And what must you be? That's what we don't take notice of. We think we are this person, this individual that's got to struggle, strive, in the same forms to get this and the other. But you are the life itself. Any struggling, striving will happen, and it does. And that's why it doesn't always happen seemingly good. It can happen in all its diversity and all its variety, and it does.

It does. It certainly does. All sorts of problems come up. Yes. And this particular pattern won't be around forever. And the patterns that are trying to get something from it or do something to it are not going to be around forever either. They might get a little bit of belief that they will get something and be happy about it. But it will be no good to them at all. Yes, and they will know deeply in the heart that this is not the way. Attacking elderly and abusing and threatening is not the way to find haven and peace and joy. But maybe they will. Who knows?

Jane is saying, a tall tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing. That's from Shakespeare. Yes. Yes, that's your rose. That's your rose. Yes, and you, like many others down through, so-called others, down through the ages have understood and known. But there's so many of us still live in ignorance. Yes. And it doesn't have to be that way. And that again, they tell us in the scriptures. Our only problem is ignorance. That's their only problem. And they've explained that. But not only that, they're not talking about that we are dull or stupid. We're not picking up all this information. That means we are ignoring, ignoring our true nature.

We're not taking any notice of the fact of our own being. We're focusing in this believed in entity. Me, Bob's got to do something about this. I don't know. I'm ignoring the essence that I am. And the recognizing that, that's where the happiness, the peace, the joy, the sense of being well, well-being, the love of being. Yes. Have a look and see. And get the taste of it. Put something on your tongue, the taste will naturally be there. Bring it into your life. The taste will end there. And you know, they say, they'll call it heart felt. Doesn't mean to say you're going to feel it in your heart, the physical organ.

But heart is the core of your being. It is the center of the spirit. Go to that heart essence. Recognize it. It resonates. You don't have to, it resonates with you. It's naturally there, but just tune into it. We rather listen to the crap that's going on in our heads. The anger, the fear, the hatred, and depression. And settle down and rest in the stillness. And it's not a matter of trying to be still. It's a matter of being still through meditation. Initially you might have to try and be still, but you can't still the mind. That's why I say in the Advent. But it'll still itself when a little bit of recognition comes into it.

And that'll be the spontaneous, natural meditation. When there's no one that is meditating and nothing to meditate on. It comes about naturally. Recognize it. Be aware. Are you unaware right now? No. No. Well you know it. Well, keep recognizing. Be aware. If I'm not unaware, I'm aware. I am that. Yeah. Right here, right now, in this immediacy. Let what comes up, comes up. Let what's go, go. I think I might lose something if I let it go. Yeah. How did it get there in the first place? Did it get through my striving and struggling? I might have thought it did. But why have so many other things that I would have liked to have?

Yeah. I mean I'd like to have it but I've never had one. You know. It comes about itself. Yeah. There is a comment from Larry. I've heard you reference what Jesus says in Gospel of Luke 12, 22, 27 about the lilies and ravens and who amongst you can add one cubit to their statue by worrying, thinking. Thanks, Bob. Yeah. Yes, that's the same thing that Christ thinks. Take no thought for your life. What you shall eat, what you shall eat, what you shall drink, what you shall wear. Your father, that life essence knows you have need of these things. And it's your father's good pleasure to give you the king.

But you've got to be open and let it happen. If you're not open and let it happen, which of you by taking thought can add one cubit to his stature? It is all no thing. Have a look. Have a look out there in the room. What do you see? You might think you're seeing different things in the room or different things outside the room if you've got windows in it. But they're all things when you break it down. You might call it a tree, a flower, a chair, a cupboard, or you or me. But they're things which we put labels on. If you haven't got the labels on, what are they?

They're just as is. What is unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, without any label, without any reference point. The shape and form, the pattern, shape and form are there. And to give them a name, to put that label on, we have to give them a name. And that's where I say the names are words we've learnt. Now, in the birds and the cats and the dogs and all the rest of it, they've got no words. But they've got sounds. They use the sounds to express things. And the meaning comes through sound without putting a label on it. They'll recognise one, that sound is fear. This one's a mating song or this one's a joyous song.

And the sounds, they don't know. They haven't got the label, this is fear or something. But they know what the appropriate activity to do in that moment is. If the deer, well, is grazing quietly, sitting down, grazing down, they hear the lion coming, somebody makes a noise, the sound will go, the snort will come up and it'll put them on the alert and they'll take off. They don't say, oh, there's a lion there, mate. That's what would happen with us, though. They take off and the lion might catch one of them after a few yards or something. He's got his meal for the night, so he settles down and starts eating it.

And the rest of the herd will settle down and start grazing again. They'll start carrying on with life, which is feeding for them. But if it was us and the lion came after us, we'd be looking over our shoulder for the rest of the day. Where is he? What's he doing? Right, and then, oh, what if he comes again? And we're creating a story about it. We lock in the story and make our life a misery. Do it if you like, which I did for years. And I'm not going to do it again. But when I heard somebody like the Zagateta who pointed out, you don't need to be that way.

You don't have to be like that. And I saw what he was saying. And it took a while to see that. I did many things before I was able to get to him. And I didn't purposely go to him. But life took me there. I was following some other teacher, Mukta Nanda, which opened me up a lot. Each one of them I went to. But it took me to each and every one of them. It's the same as it'll take you if you give it the opportunity. Yeah, see, as I say, we don't know what's going to happen next. Who knew about this virus a couple of months ago, whenever it was, not that long ago, a couple of months ago.

We didn't bring that into our life and say, well, it's going to be like this. We were thinking everything's going to go along goodly and I'll see this and see that and do that. But look at the changes brought about in lives. Aren't we coping? Aren't we coping when we're settling down to it and recognising it, doing what seems to be appropriate at the time? And of course, it will capture a few of us. Every plague and every virus and everything like that down through the ages has done it. Captured a few of us, just the same as the wars, the droughts, the floods and the things of all.

Life lives on life and out of life more comes. Life comes. It's going to go on. It's going to go on, but it will go on much better if it's carefree. What's carefree mean? Free of caring about it. Leave it as it is. And if any care needs to come up or any concern or anything, let it come up. But don't dwell in it because like everything else, it'll move on. Everything is transient in this manifest world. Captured a few of us. There's a lot of change happening. It's changing. And you might notice that. And as I say, a couple of months ago there was no virus as far as we knew it.

Hasn't it changed and isn't it changing now? And realise that that body that you call you isn't the same as it was before the virus started. It's changed. It's changing right now. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now and being replaced. See, so the death's going on there too. You haven't got the same body you had 20 years ago, or last week, or last year. What about all those cells that have passed on then? You're mourning every one of them? You're not. Some of them you're glad to get rid of. One that was a big boil on my leg or something like that, now that it's gone now.

That doesn't matter. Well, that had a feed of the body while it was there. Easy for you to say, you don't get any wrinkles. There's pain here, there's pleasure here, all the things are here, like everywhere else. But if it's not me, the person or me that's doing it, and it's life itself, and life is living on life, and out of life more life's going to come, and I realise that, there's no thought or feeling stitched in my head anywhere. They come and they go. And while they're focused on and believed in, they hang around a lot longer than they should. I've got a comment.

This is from Larry. One thing that has been particularly distracting is the Kundalini-type experience I've had. I came to believe they were important and a step on some path to salvation. But I had some realisation. It became new addiction. I think of this only because you brought up Muktananda, and it seems like those around him were valuing those experiences which fed my beliefs and spiritual experience addiction. A lot of suffering and delusion came from that. Yes. I say that the Kundalini is only the energy focusing through the body, and it can be very helpful. But as I say, like everything else, if you attach to it and fixate on it, and expect something from it, when it becomes the be-all and end-all, then it becomes a problem to you.

But it'll take you where you need to go, if you're open to it and let it happen spontaneously. But everybody was looking for bigger and better experiences. I've got to have experiences. And see, experiences come and go, and they're not it. And they can be more colourful and more opening, but they're opening up parts of the body that we might have found it hard to open ordinarily. So they do their job. Yes. It's the same. Kundalini is the same life energy that you and I are, and everything else is. And it doesn't... It'll come into your life if it's necessary, but as I say, to get attached to it or fixate on it, like anything else, you've stopped dead there, waiting for the bigger and better experience to come.

The experience you've had might be enough. And if there's a bigger one to be had, it'll come along and open you up a bit more. And it'll express in whichever way it's got to express. And it can express in all varieties of ways. There can be clairvoyance, clairaudience, and all these...telepathy. And all these things can be there. But again, if you get fixated or locked into them, let them do their job if they're going to do it. Yeah. I have another beautiful comment to the one that... I joke about the wrinkles. Tanya says, You don't have any wrinkles, do you? It was for me. Obviously, yeah, nobody has wrinkles.

Bodies have wrinkles, but the true nature, the true...what we really are, doesn't even have shape or form, less alone wrinkles. This was just to make him laugh. I do have more than him, though. I mean my body. But that was the only purpose, to just have his smile more open. But the true nature never has wrinkles, of course. And then there is a comment from Heyman, The ultimate understanding is that there is no ultimate understanding, from Nisargadatta. And also from Tanya, Is kundalini energy like a feeling of shivers, as if a cold or shaking? Is the kundalini like shaking and shivers? Yes. Yes. Yes, it's a movement of energy, it can be vibrating, it can be very violent.

It can be very steady, very subtle. And... I've had Parkinson's for a while now, and a lot of that was similar to the kundalini I had years ago, and I thought it was kundalini. Yeah, I'll just add to this one. I've been a part of the Causing Miracles community for some time, and they had so-called, in Wisconsin in America, they had so-called light sessions, in which they play music, they make themselves available, and they go ecstatic, they go blissful on that sense of surrender, which is quite pleasant, and it's quite overwhelming, and it's kind of giving you a reference to life from which nothing is really that serious or that big.

So it does have its kind of transformational part, but I also heard about quite a few people leaving the academy and not being able to participate in those experiences, therefore committing a suicide. Life wasn't worth living anymore, because that intensity, that also often happened to people who are addicted on drugs. And let's say, I don't know, I didn't ever try heroin or stuff like this, or cocaine, but people who do get, I know the stories from the books and friends, who do get, you know, hooked on it. They don't really, they can't really find the balance in the silence, in the normality. They need those highs or those lows.

Later on it becomes the promises that the drug or the light session or the kundalini experience gives you are not being fulfilled, and you need them merely to just maintain the state of no anxiety. Otherwise, the dependency builds up. So, everything happens as it does, because I also know people who actually emerged from those darkest of darkest places, and saw the light through the suffering, through the pain of addiction. So, it's, yeah, so many different ways of looking at it. It's nothing that should be induced or advised, or nothing can be really said about it. It's just the same way Bob was saying, life takes you where it takes you.

The quicker, the quicker you can get the I or the me out of the road, you know, and let life take over, which is doing it anyway, but more completely, then who would want a suicide? There's no me to suicide. See, we're trying to kill the conceptual image, which is a dead image anyway. But, if you take the life out of that body, you know, you've still got all the organs there, the heart, the lungs, the hair, the fingernails, the kidneys, the organs are there, but they're no good to you without that life. So, it's the life that's doing the lot. And, can, you know, and it, and life lives on life.

How do life, more life comes? It's only life. A good analogy is a computer going through your, computer, your computer, you know, all that information on it, is it any good if the power's not on? It's full of information, in those things, but without the power turned on, it's not a bit of good. All the life energy, if that life wasn't in that body, could you breathe? Could you beat your heart? Could you replace cells? Could you think about Kundalini, or anything else? Or worry, or fear, or have any of the sensations? You couldn't. So, give credit where credit is due. What's doing it? The person, the poor miserable person that can't get there, or not having this experience, and gonna knock themselves off because of that?

Or, is it the life itself? Now, not everybody will see this, unfortunately, but a lot more that might not, probably never looked, if you could get a glimpse of it from that, and change their eyes. And if you can, you can do more. Yeah, we have a couple of more comments. Jane says, I did a lot of energy workshops in 90s, then utilized the energy when I was massage therapist. Some clients had major releases from the energy work at the end of the session. Interesting use of channeled energy in healing. And now Larry says, I sure as hell got hooked on the ecstasy. A bliss junkie.

Pretty dark. Same as drugs and alcohol. Derived from the same self-identification and seeking. Very good point. Yeah. And God Potter says, we are not addicted from thoughts. This addiction is real, even if there is no one addicted. And Jane says, naming and claiming the thoughts as ours is the problem. Yeah. You know, there's a taste of it there all through those comments. So you all know it really. Mm-hmm. But most people are fearful, saying, oh poor me, I couldn't be like that. I couldn't be like that. They said they set up people as saints, sages, saviors and seers, put them up on a high pedestal.

Yes. And we worship the messenger, messenger and lose sight of the message. Mm. It's the message that is important. Each one of those had a message. That's right. Which was very important. Take the message and let the messenger go. Mm-hmm. Like it says in the Godfather, leave the gun, take the cannoli. Okay, so there is this one, is this addiction real, even if there is no one addicted? Would you like to comment on this? What's an addiction? Nothing but a habit pattern, isn't it? That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that becomes involuntary after a while, in a lot of cases, a habit. That's right. But if you recognize, understand and know for certain that it is a habit, you've broken habits before.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If you've broken a habit, you're getting locked into the Kundalini stuff, well, you know, if you've got the habit of believing in this persona, this mask, you're free. Know the truth and the truth is the truth. And the truth will set you free. Mm-hmm. Simple and true. Also, I would argue that... The more you're free, the freer the belief in the person. Mm-hmm. That is the distinction. The addiction is one thing, the physical addiction or whatever, or even, you know, even dogs are getting overweight and diabetes right now because of the habit patterns. But the problem is the narrative that comes with the addiction.

The problem is that, oh, okay, I... Like, Nisargadatta was smoking cigarettes, but he wasn't concerned with what the body was doing, so he didn't suffer because of that. Well, eventually, it took his course and it caused cancer, but because his constitution was like that, the attention wasn't naturally attracted to the ideas of health. The body was addicted, the habit pattern was there, but there was no suffering or problem because of that. So the addiction is one thing, and the suffering, that is, it causes is yet another thing. And usually, we want to break free from the suffering, and it often goes hand in hand because very often the base for the addiction, at least initially, is to satisfy the self or is to extinguish that sense of uneasiness, that sense of void, like feel that with food or with drugs or with sex or with shopping, whatever, that sense of incompleteness.

When the sense of incompleteness is gone, there is no need for self-medicating it. But if the habit has already been developed, the attention may naturally go towards breaking it. If it doesn't, you just live till late 80s like Nisargadatta, having the little addiction. If there is no suffering attached, that's how it is. So, Heyman says, all our problems are problems of relationships. He's quoting you. Yes. What's relationship? Relative to. Relative to. And if you're relating to something other, that's dualism. All our problems are problems of dualism. Belief in dualism. This replying to Garth Potter, yes, addicted to my thoughts is addicted to ego. Yes. It's all an ego.

Yes. Yes. Donna is saying, I had an experience of bliss and the reading of the passing and riding in the passenger seats of life as it unfolded. And then suddenly I abruptly ended. I wanted to die as I felt so empty, mixed with anger at having this experience taken away. I chased the experience for 15 years until I found non-duality, and realized all experiences, good and bad, come and go. And I am that which remains unaffected by it. Thank you, Bob and Kat. That's beautiful. That's excellent, yeah. Excellent. So, see, it's there. Yes. And Ram is saying, people love me because I transcended my ego.

Nobody transcends their ego better than me. Nobody. He says, I'm like Donald Trump became Buddha. Jane says, Correct. All problems or conflict arise from fixating on me and the other person, place or thing. Heyman, Suffering doesn't come from addiction. It comes from the thoughts about it. Beautiful. Energy flows where attention goes. Tanya says, There is nothing wrong with anger, sadness, impatience, etc. Is there? If that is showing up, that is just what is happening, and that's not wrong or bad, right? That's right. Absolutely. Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. It's only what concept you put on them. Yeah. And Michael says, With no self, shouldn't it be very easy to drop addictions?

Yes or no? Thank you so much, Kat and Bob. Yeah. Of course, there's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. There's no self. Of course, there's no self. Who can have an addiction? Yeah. Would there be any need to drop it, if there is no one there? So there is no, I would say, there is no yes or no answer, Michael, to this, unfortunately, because, you know, it depends on the constitution of the body. In some body, when the self drops, and there is no need for self-gratification, the repatterning or reconditioning takes some time, and then it's gone.

And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And then it's gone. And it ends up in a position of Bob, who doesn't have any addiction, doesn't have any desires. But there are also situations, like, let's say, Alan Watts, he still liked his wine, or Nisargadatta, he still liked his cigarettes, and were they honest because of that? The different body constitution, different upbringing, different, different original set-up of the body mind, and different, it wasn't based in a desire, like Nisargadatta, there was nobody home, to say that smoking is bad and I should stop it or I have to stop it.

When you realize there is no self, the addictions, the patterns may drop off or they may not. It's really none of your business because there is no you anymore. And that's the freedom. When you are okay, regardless, whether you're young and strong or sick and old or addicted or non-addicted, the freedom is there regardless of what shape or form that body and the bodies around take. That's the freedom. So, Bob, maybe would you like to elaborate a little bit on the question of Tanya again because we have a spot of silence, that there is nothing wrong with sadness, anger, impatience. There's nothing wrong. They just come up.

Yeah. As we say, there's no one-ended stick. I use that analogy. Each stick's got two ends. The one end might be thick, the other thin or one twisted or one smooth or whatever it is. They're still the same stick. That's right. So could there be silence without sound? Could there be stillness without movement? Could there be happiness without sadness? That's right. So there's got to be the two ends to it. It's the fixating on them. Yes. It's fixating on one as against the other. As the saga says, you're dreaming a dream you call the world. And you say, stop looking for ways out. The dream's not your concern.

Your concern is you love one part of the dream. If it's a good dream, you like it. If it's a nightmare, you don't like it. And not the other. He said love all of it or none of it. See it all as a dream. Say what? A dream is going to come to an end sooner or later. It'll happen. And the rest will be done for you. And that's the important thing. The rest will be done for you. That means it'll take you. When you see it all as it is, the end will come. isness or move on to the ever fresh and ever present isness which might be totally different might not be might be worse but love all of it or none of it i'll just i'll just add a word to it we had we had a few people who had different um like emotional patterns anxiety pattern for example or anger pattern and socially we are conditioned that to believe that this is wrong this is bad this is inappropriate or shame they're all negative so-called negative emotions but those people for some reason they were guided or they were instructed to go straight into those moments of panic attack or moments of anxiety and they found great freedom in them so ultimately for them it was a good thing but then again judging anything as good and bad is the overlay of the narrative on the energy which we already labeled which we didn't even have to label because if there is an anxiety and i don't give it a name i don't give it a label it is just the energy it's just bubbling energy we can call it kundalini we can call it anger or we can of course the label will come up because that's how brain is constructed or the mind is constructed it recognizes and it compares with the past it relates to the past but without taking on board the nine the the name of the label or the whatever the emotion is called but just staying with that pure essence bubbling in the system causing different sensations in the body causing maybe tensions here and there affecting the breathing affecting the mental images it is a fascinating journey into stripping off back to the pure life stripping off the label anger stripping off the label um anger is bad and coming back to the raw life bubbling through that makes it even more neutral than than bringing up the idea that okay anger can be positive it can be forced for good or it could be negative that labels the the secondary layer of labors labels is uh is moving us even further away from that rawness of of life stream now heyman says if addictions were dropped or not it is equivalent for i or it is yeah yeah that's i has the business in dropping or not dropping addiction there's no i who cares now god says suffering is desires with incompleteness and not suffering is desires only that's a question suffering is desires what desires with sense of incompleteness and no suffering desires without sense of incompleteness yeah i would even question the desires there's no saying that a point here desire is the fixation of the of the mind on an idea which is just the same as ideas are fixating and he says get it out of its groove by denying it attention yes don't give it any attention they're keeping it in this groove and keeping reading the voice and when you go going into the same old groove all the time the rut gets deeper and deeper just to know it crooked past we come smooth yes rick says sailor bob has educated this woman very yes rick says sailor bob has educated this woman very well yes he did it took me beyond the need for help well yes he did it took me beyond the need for help and many many others yeah jane for example also beyond the need for help for help watching without naming seeing everything fresh and new as she says tania says wow thank you there has been fixation yeah rick says outside the room no to see the first sign with no turning back no to see the first step no to laughing class and no to whatever you there has been fixation for a long time here I love that it is just energy just staying with the pure essence yes why has that seemed so hard until now laughing only true only thought says it was hard exactly Heyman during my long hours of meditation I realized deeply that the answer is not in the mind hmm Heyman is it possible is it possible to desire to not desire without having a desire who would do it yes just goes to show when people open up a bit you know more understood and what they're feeling and what they're feeling and what they're feeling and what they're feeling and what they're realizing I said a talk for many years talking on this nobody wants to ask questions and so they mine stuck but when they have them they can let start let flow out then and what did I say how do the out of the Bible the words out of the bones of words out of the boys and yeah come something great wisdom well the wisdom is there but whatever he's going to call for it for the food to announce it or state it.

That's right. Yes. We have Haman says watch with your eyes, not with your mind. Beauty. And James says old habits die hard out of the month of babes. Yeah, babes and suckers. Yes. Let your thoughts be free. People probably sit back, oh I'm not going to ask a question because what will they think of me? Or maybe it might be right, well they'll think I'm an idiot. How are you going to free yourself from it if you keep it in there without putting it out there. Or the statements that you might have understood yourself. Yeah. Oh I can't say that I think I'm trying to be a guru or something.

Yes. Who gives a shit what anybody thinks? That's right. Nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And it's easier for me too. I've got to go over the same old crap time and time again, ordinary giving a talk and listen nobody's answering. You know? And everybody gets into it, brings out different ways of saying things, for all of us. And also doesn't it bring a great joy that you are actually, your message is heard? Yes. Heymann says, the fears we don't face become our limits. And Sally says, I feel like that Bob, that I am too slow a learner. I'm ashamed of being stuck in a belief of me.

Rid yourself of that. Silence gives answers, Rumi. That's from Heymann. I would add because for Sally, because I used to have the same sort of a spiritual ambition. I had a beautiful life with the career on the ships. I had very, very short distance to become a captain of the ships, which is the top of a career. And I did not give a shit about any of it. But I put all my attention into breaking through, breaking free from the I. That was a spiritual ego. That was a spiritual ego. That was a spiritual ambition. I was listening to the YouTubes. I was going to meetings.

I was meeting different gurus in different monasteries and ashrams. It was a fixation. It was the me that wanted to get something. I don't know if what you say is a similar situation, but try to see how that pattern of trying to get or trying to break free or being ashamed that you are so slow. And it's not happening for you. How this one is also a pattern of the ego of the mind of the me because and it's totally mechanical. It's not. It's an automatic function. It's an idea that possessed you that there is something to get and there is someone who needs to get it.

Because if you see that idea of someone getting something in the field of space, like you are that space. Like awareness and in you that is desire to learn faster. Shame that you are not learning fast enough. All those feelings play out in the space like awareness that you are. Then you may actually instead of experiencing a shame or instead of experiencing the disappointment that why is it not happening? What am I doing wrong? What is wrong with me? You will actually see the beautiful theater with a beautiful characters playing their roles. Well, in the emptiness or in the awareness that you are just see it as impersonal because it is impersonal.

There's many many people. That's why I say I was going through it because it's not just me and hundreds of thousands of perhaps even millions of people go through the same sort of a process of trying to get something for me for some people it will be enlightenment for some people. It will be becoming a ship's captain or becoming whoever married or having a mother or whatever. The ambition. Yeah. of wanting something that is not, wanting something for me, is just a pattern, mechanical habit pattern in which that life essence expresses. If you see this pattern as an energy, just the same way the energy of anxiety, the same way the energy of thought creates that image of me wanting something and not having it.

And this image happens in the I am, in the space that you are, in the consciousness. You are the consciousness and that inner dialogue and that feelings and that shame happens within of what you are. You could even just see how the shame really tastes, what it does to the body, what it does to the breathing, how it really appears on a physical level, not only on mental level. Then it won't be yours anymore because now you're watching it as an object. So this is not you being ashamed. It is the pattern of a shame appearing in consciousness that you are. And it could be fascinating.

It could even be pleasant in a way because it's not yours. It's impersonal. It's an object in consciousness. It did help me. Good. Ah, we got, um, Heyman says ego must turn into let go. And Jane adds, and there is no me. Michael says there was a Netflix doco when they made a practical joke on a postman when visiting a spiritual group, they convinced him he was a guru. They were waiting for, put him in the chair, but the wisdom, he became a guru. Can't remember the name of a doco, but brilliant. I think it was Kumari or something. Rohan says Bob and Kat much love from the day for the direct pointing when clear insight into the fiction of a separate me arises.

There is a great piece for some time yet when the negative destructive thinking comes back to the habit, it seems to be more violent than before I started looking into it into this. Yeah. Well, naturally, you know, it thinks it's gonna lose its holders. It's gonna struggle more. It's saying, quite questioning it quite having a look. Yeah. And if they, that's when people say, Oh, I saw it through the maybe. It's a me came back. Now, if you really saw through it and see there's nothing there, how could it something that's not there come back? What do we call it? How would you express yourself?

We just express yourself to anybody you need to say I am. Yeah. Now, instead of saying that, Oh, I am as the absolute, as a totality as the great Perfection. We say it has myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. we formed the concept of I, myself as me, the persona, the mask, the conception of the mask. Am I a mask? So when the I am seemingly comes back, instead of saying I am the person suffering this or that, it's the absolute that's seemingly there right now, the absolute in which the I am can appear and disappear or anything at all can come up and disappear. But that that's come up is absolute.

The me that has come up is not a personal self, it is the seemingly seeming absolute appearing, expressing as the person. Also another aspect is that it may just feel stronger relatively, because when you taste that peace, that power, all understanding, any disturbance on that piece feels so like a fork on a glass. It really doesn't sit well. But it may be just the same as it's always been. I mean, I know people who were having suicidal ideations and then they started experiencing peace and they had the suicidal ideations when the peace was lost. And they believed that this was much stronger, but they were not an inch closer to suicide.

They were not. They just relatively felt that it is much, much worse. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is in your case. In your case, it may really be worse. But there is a thing to consider. Maybe it is just a relative comparing to that piece or that bliss. Then everything that is on the other end of the stick, it just feels so much worse for a moment. But it doesn't... What I mean is that it's not just a relative. It's a relative. When the recognition comes quickly, the quicker the recognition comes, the more... the less of a sting the so-called unpleasant part has.

Even if it is really like, you know, like your fellow stabbing you in the back, it doesn't even feel that bad because you drop it very quickly. Tanya says, hearing your message loud and clear, this message has helped me look and shown the truth. It is seen without any doubts now. Good. Beauty. You are that. Yes. Heyman says, for me, YouTube played a great role in my spiritual pathless path. And Jane, some fruit ripens slowly, some quickly. Both are what is. Yes, absolutely. Ben is saying, Good to see you guys. Got pulled back to Australia while this corona business goes on. Welcome back, Ben. Yeah.

Which Ben? The Ben that we've seen recently. Ben Walton, yes. Ben Walton. Hi, Ben. Rick says, many of us have a shame-based sense of self. Yes. Heyman, in fact, me is not an animal. He is not an entity which seeks happiness in all places and objects that it can access, but it is the very activity of seeking. That's a quote from Rupert Spira. Rick says, true ambition is walking humbly under the grace God, not under the disease of addiction. Sally, thank you, Kat. That was helpful. Yes, I get lost in it. It feels like those Russian dolls. And Tanya says, yes, I am that. Yeah, it's good.

Why have you got that turned around that way? Couldn't you turn it around here? Instead of getting up and down? No, the whole thing. Has it got to be turned that way? It doesn't matter. We'll talk about it later. Yeah, no, I could freeze the camera on me, absolutely. No, I'm saying turn it around and keep sitting here. But then I won't be able to read what people comment. Well, if the thing was turned around, you could. Couldn't you? No. My eyes are not good enough. OK. You could. No. Leave it as it is. Have a look if you can read. I'll just get it.

No. Can you read the comments here? You see, your eyes are not that great either. Yeah. Yeah, I have to have my nose on the camera to actually be able to read it. So, can you read this one? No, but I said we've got that magnifying glass up there we can put it on. No. Yeah. OK, I'll get it. I'll get it going. Does a belief have any purpose or all are useless? That's a question from God Potter. Does the belief have any use or they are all useless? The belief is not the truth. That's all. It's not the actual. You can get lost in the belief.

Yeah. So, it might need to be that way until it's seen through. Probably is. Because that's how, why the suffering goes on for so long. Yeah. It keeps, it's like a spur digging into you all the time. Keeps suffering and you question it and question it. We look all different ways to find the problem. We think we're going to find it in the mind. Until it dawns on us, maybe the answer is not there. And also, I would like to add about the usefulness or uselessness of beliefs. The first question would be used, useful or useless for who? For you, for the individual who wants to get something.

There is no individual. So, they actually are useful perhaps for nature because nature uses the humans to express truth. It uses their creativity to create the civilization. To create the network, information network. So, they are being utilized. The beliefs are just another way the nature expresses. Just like the wind, the tsunami, the volcanoes, the feelings, the thoughts. But the individual that you want to realize that is not even there. The beliefs are not really, beliefs are not going to do it. They don't really do the job. It is the absence of beliefs. It's the absence of concepts that take you to the non-self. The non-conceptual awareness.

Not the beliefs. Like some people say, fake it to make it, believe that you are God and you will be. Well, you may experience the idea or the illusion of being God, but only through dropping all ideas. You can really find the non-conceptual awareness as who you are. I'll turn it back because there is another. Heyman says, Addictions and depression and shame and anxiety and joy and death. And joy and bliss and peace and happiness are created by the same energy. Yes. Yes. It's all the one essence. So, if it's all the one essence, which one are you going to believe is right? That's right.

Love all or none of it. Then I would also add about the beliefs that not only the beliefs are being utilized, but the beliefs are also the base for the reality to have that shape which it does. Like there are transparent beliefs that we don't question. Like the solidity of the walls or chairs or the beliefs that the bread we are buying is not going to be poisoned. The transparent, completely subconscious way of viewing the reality, of believing it into existence, experiencing a dream as the reality is a belief. But again, it's not the individual that has it or doesn't have it. It is the way the world is coming into it.

It is coming into or is interpreted out of the field of probability. It is just the way it is. They're not useful or useless. They're just how the world is, how it appears. Like, you know, we are having healthy food because there is a belief that certain food, like unprocessed food, is healthy. But is it really? Because everything is just vibrating particles creating a matter that are all ultimately transient. Yes. But that's how the experience, the human experience in the human solid, so-called solid existence is utilized. How it is, how it actually happens. So beliefs are neither useful nor useless. They are what is. Good.

Your granddaughter Romy says, Hi Boki, love you, love Romy. I don't know why she said that. I don't know why she said that. The actions speak louder than words. But maybe that's not in your family. Yes, so I don't know how many more intrusions we have. So watch out what you say because it's going to be recorded and used against you in court. Perhaps we should end this meeting, maybe, you think? Pardon? You're right as well. That's fine. Jane says, Because to have a belief there is, there has to be a me. What Bob is pointing to is there is a me. One without a second.

Know me, know you to have beliefs. Non-dual, not duality. The fact of your own being is a knowing, not a belief. Can't negate that. Want to close it? Will we close it? Yeah, anyone has questions or comments? If not, we close it. And I want you to stop doing meetings. Oh, somebody say. By intruding. By intruding. By intruding. By intruding. By intruding. Okay, I'll just. Yeah, then. Yeah, so thank you, Judy. Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Larry. He says, It's good to see you healthy and strong. Yeah, not having dementia. And knowing is not a belief. That perfectly sums it up, says Tanya. Dale Allison says, Thank you.

Thank you. Sharnas is appreciate you so much. Thank you, love. Okay, thank you. Thank you very, very much, everyone. Yep, thank you.