Sailor Bob - Nonduality. Just sit with this. 16 Feb 2020

Is it right? Yes, it's good. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, we can. She's been getting into you. What was that? I didn't hear you. I was getting into you. Yeah. Evil woman. Well, you all know what we talk about, don't you? That's the main thing. And it's a matter of hearing and let it resonate, if it resonates and hear it. And what comes up in your own words, the resonation and the recognition, and you'll start to really understand what we're saying. We talk about what they call it, for want of a better term, non-duality. And that's just a label also, non-duality like everything else.

And that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the way we talk. Something else is a label. And all labels are made up of words, images, ideas. But when we point out that the word is not the thing, it's only a pointer and we realize that's all we're ever doing is pointing toward what you actually are and where it is home or resonates. Go where that resonation is and realize It is what you actually are yourself. You are that. It's not something that anybody is giving you or not something that you can ever get. It is your own natural state. And when I mean your own, it's not the personal.

It's the natural state in which all appearances, manifestations, expressions are happening or occurring. I surely say there's gotta get into the art of listening. Those of us, when we, unless you recognise us and understood it, we are hearing from. It's what's going into the head. You're hearing it and immediately you got some conceptual image of it and it might come up as some argument for good or some understanding or whatever. Yeah. But then that's when the arguments and problems go on. When it's head to head. Head to head implies two. It's got to be something other than hearing. They say the art of listening is listening from the heart.

And we get the wrong idea of that. We think we've got to get some physical pain. That's it. But heart is another label for core or the centre. The core of your being or the centre of the spirit. And everyone of us knows when you say, well, how I get heart to heart. But you already know that. Because how many times when you've had a close relationship or reaction to it, if you felt after when it's moved, you're really moved, and you felt my heart went out to them. And that's what actually happens because you see that sensation within you. You say, my heart went out to them.

And that's when the community takes place. When it's head to head, there's a clash. Your concepts are getting right. When it's heart to heart, there's a opening to it and a natural merging with it. You know what it is when you say it's heartfelt. That was heartfelt. It was felt in the core of your being. And it resonated there. And it's taken on board then. And the communication is really actual then. So when we say start from the fact that you already are that, whether you know what that is or not, or got some idea or haven't got some heart to heart, when you say you already are that, that means that it's the same essence.

Yeah. It's speaking. It's the same essence as hearing. It's the same essence as manifesting this universe. I call it essence because it hasn't got any shape or any form. Just like the scent of a flower or the aroma or the burning incense or whatever the scent is. That's the essence of it, right? So it's the essence of being. And you are that essence. Another term for that essence is life. We've got this body, this mind, this separate entity, this pattern, shape and form we call the body, mind. We're relating everything to that body because we've taken on the term it's me, or it's what I am.

A separate entity, an individual. And to see that separate entity, when you investigate it, you see it's a conceptual image. Made up of past events, experiences and conditioning. Isn't that so? It's all about yesterday or last week. What are you saying about right now? You realise you can't say anything about it. You can just express it in its immediacy. And when you do express it, you can't express it in the way you're expressing it. Yesterday's concepts, yesterday's ideas, yesterday's words. Everything, they're all dead now. But we take them to be real because we have a pattern of believing them. So we're constantly relating to a dead image.

And can something that's dead keep up with life? It's impossible. And don't you realise what we're doing? We're always chasing, we've got this dead concept about ourselves and we're chasing about becoming. Directly trying to become something, to catch up with life. And being is always in the immediacy. Being is always the actual. Becoming can never really happen. But you can't negate the beingness. Try and say, I am not. Even as you say that, I am not, I am not, you must realise that I must be, there must be something there that enables me to say it. How could I say it if there wasn't that life essence there?

It would be impossible. And we've got all these thoughts, feelings and emotions, fear, anger, depression, guilt, shame. Look at them, what are they? They're all thoughts. They're all dead thoughts. That's based on past. Thought, feeling and emotion is one, three different aspects of the world. Thought can be very subtle. When it happens, it becomes a sensation. And that sensation we call a feeling. Seeing it as pure sensation, we see it as yesterday's sensation. This one's fear. This one's anger. This one's depression. This one's guilt. This one's shame. This one's remorse. We're always relating to some image which is now dead. And that sensation, when it's related to death, it becomes a sensation that comes up, we're labelled from the old patterns.

This one's fear. This one's anger. This one's depression. This one's guilt. How do you know? Well, it's what I've felt before and people have told me when I first learned words that this is fear, this one's anger, either you're angry or you're nasty or all this. So we're putting the old label in it. And as soon as we load ourselves down with the old label, we're right back into it again. But what if you saw it as it's happening, fresh and new, an ever fresh presence awareness? Instead of labelling it the sensation as fear, have a look at it. There's a feeling there which I've labelled fear.

Feeling or a sensation there. But what is it if I'm not putting the old label in it? If I'm seeing it fresh and new, as though it's a feeling, as though it's the first time this has come up. When you look into it, you might really see it as a different light altogether. But while we're relating to the damage, dead image, we keep reinforcing it all the time. And that's what we're doing all the time because we've got this one fear, anger and all this. As soon as these sensations come up, we go immediately into them and regurgitate them, bring them up again. So no wonder we're always in this anger, this fear, this depression or unhappiness or guilt.

We're missing out on the natural, spontaneous, effortless, joyousness that life is. And when we call it bliss, people look for the thing called bliss to put the label on. And they can't find it because they don't see the simplicity of it. It's simply what it is, right here, right now. And isness is not wasness and is not what will be. Will-be-ness is the ever-fresh presence awareness. And that's what the Buddhists, one of the terms the Buddhists use, non-conceptual, without the thought up construct, ever-fresh presence awareness. That is this presence awareness which we haven't diverted or divided into concepts, images, ideas. And that is a spontaneous, natural, actual livingness, beingness.

And that's living and being and different levels of the same thing. Awareness. They're all the same thing in different labels. And the label or the word is not the real. That's what we need to question also. Where did words come from? Well, have a look. What word was I born with? Well, I can't remember any word I was born with. But I can't even remember my birth. But you'll say, I was born. We've got this concept, but we can't label the exact time it happened or when it happened. We don't. When we realise, well, come, you learn that term, I was born, we can only relate it to as far back as we can remember.

And you were certainly not, when you were born, you weren't remembering that. It wasn't until you learnt words or concepts about two, two and a half or something like that. It might have been earlier, it might have been later. And then you can relate it to that. And that's what they say in the scriptures, in the beginning was the word. You had no beginning because you can't remember it, you can't say it again until you learnt the word. And they tell you that in the beginning was the word. The word was the God. This thing we call God, we put labels on it. We put Shiva, Shiva, this, that, the other, Brahma or Buddha or Jesus.

We put all different labels on this word we call God. But they're all words. So in the beginning was the word. You can understand what they mean by that then. All things were made by him by the word. And isn't that so? Have a look at the things in the room. That's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. We put words on them to give them a name and a form. But it's only the godliness or the one essence if you use that term, the life essence or intelligence energy as I use, that is expression, pattern, is everything. We call it God and then you put the word on God on it and we think it's that that's made it.

But it's all words, even the word God is a word. So how can you separate anything? It's all the one manifestation. I use the life, I call it life, myself, and that's just a label also, or intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing, the activity of knowing, and any activity is a movement of energy. So intelligence energy as far as I'm concerned is the activity of knowing. And any activity is taking place presently, not taking place in the past. Because to recall the past, you've got to, you know, when we say we're in the past, we're using what it is in the moment. Words have differentiated in saying it's past or future.

And what have we done with ourselves? We've learnt words. As I say, you didn't have any words when you were born, you didn't have any words until about two, two and a half in that capacity of reasoning. It's a capacity these human patterns have. It's a useful capacity also. But it's self-destructive because it's a vibration. And all the vibrations must vibrate in the opposites. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. And the good, the bad, they're the boundaries you put on. Pleasant, the painful, they're boundaries. All the words are boundaries, limitations, conceptual, starts and finishes, ends and finish. And the word is not the thing.

Investigate the word and see. Is the word water, water? It's not. Is the word fire, fire? Is the word chair, chair? Is the word me what you actually are? Is the word I what you actually are? It's not. Because, go back again. Have a look. Are you the body? And you'll know, when you're in it, you already know that you're not the body because you say, my body. And as I say, you say, my house, my car, my coat. And you know you're not the house, are you? You're not the car? No. You're not the coat. Wouldn't that make you have another look and say, well, maybe I'm not the body either.

Because we were told we were this person, persona, this mass, this body. And we've reinforced it every day since then. And our parents have reinforced it. Our parents have reinforced it for us. Our schools and everybody around us have constantly reinforced it because 99.9% of the population have taken on the belief we are these words and never questioned it. But have you looked in the scriptures and down through the ages, and you'll see that down through the ages there are always people that have been curious enough to look beyond it. The curiosity has come about through the subtle knowing that there's more to it than this.

And each and every one of you in this room know that. That's why you're looking. That's why we're searching. Not just the word or the conceptual image. That'll be the finish, but it's not that. There's something more. And we learn these words. My body. But as I say innately, you know you're not the body. It's the same as you know you're not the coat and the car. Well, have a look. Investigate and see for certain whether you are that body because that's another thing they tell us. And it's a fact too when you investigate that the false cannot stand up to the investigation. So many things you've taken on belief on and a lot of them you're still believing in.

But there's a lot of them you've investigated. Like Santa Claus. You investigate Santa Claus. You know there's no Santa Claus. But it's a fair to be. You go down to the ocean and investigate the blue sea. And you'll see the water's not blue. And the blue sky. And the sky's space. Empty space. There's no blueness in it. This room is space. Where's the blueness? Just outside the window is space. There's no blueness there. And the blueness is not until you get further out that it appears to be blue. The water in a mirage. When you dive up to it, there's no water there. When was there ever any water there?

You realize there couldn't have been. The rainbow. The child of a barren woman. When can a barren woman have any children? God, they're all the snake and the rope. They're all metaphors they use in the scriptures they're pointed out here. Do we take notice of them? Most of us don't. Take notice and investigate. And you see they're facts what they're saying. They're not, you know, they're not, they're not, the false can never stand up to the investigation. It falls apart. Now you know this water's not blue. It doesn't stop you from seeing it. It still appears to be so. That's why they call it, the manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation.

It's a manifestation made up of phenomena. Look in your dictionary and see what the definition of phenomena is. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. And what is appearance? It's only seemingly so. It's not what it actually is. And when you look at some of these appearances you've taken them on, just investigate and see the falseness of them. And when the false is recognised, and the way it functions, dualistically, what must you be left with? What's the opposite of false? Truth. So when you see the false is false, you must recognise it as the truth. And what does the scriptural saying say?

Know the truth. And the truth will set you free. What will you be free from? You'll be free from the belief that you are this person, this mask. That's all a person is. A conceptual image. Made up of concepts. So you can be free. And what's an image? Investigate the word image too. Now when the saga tells you nothing can trouble you, except your own imagination. Now that's a term. Yeah, we hear that. Realise the importance of that. If it's only my imagination that's troubled me, I can be free of all this psychological shit that's been going on with me for years. It doesn't have to be there.

If I investigate and see the truth. But no, we take it to be real. Nothing can trouble me, excepting my own imagination. Have a look at that word imagination. Break a down. Break a down to imagine. And break that word imagine down to image in. Imagine. Imaging in. And that's all we're doing. We're creating conceptual images. That's the chair. That's the tree. That's you. That's me. What our conceptual image is always, that's so and so and I don't like him or her. He's this, he's that or the other. And break that image up into different whole concepts. And take an image to be real. But what's an image?

Just what it appears to be. Have a look in the room. There's a few mirrors in this room. Have a look into one of the mirrors. And what do you see in them? A mirror is full of reflections. Or another word for reflections, images. Full of images. Look in that mirror behind you. There's no, looks like it's empty space. But that space is an image in the mirror. This is where the space is, right here. The mirror, emptiness in the mirror is not. The mirror is totally full of images. Totally full. The space or whatever. Just images in the mirror. And what's this body made up of?

The conceptual idea that we've made up, we've built onto that primary thought. I am, I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, the not so good fella. I'm happy, I'm unhappy, or depressed. I'm introverted or I'm extroverted. I'm not good enough. Nobody loves me. What are they? All conceptual images. Conceptual images. But the energy of belief has gone into them. And we take them to be real. And it's poor me then. Not just me, but it's poor me. Poor me. Poor me. Poor is another image. Poorness and Bob. And the energy of belief has gone into these images. And that energy that goes into them, there's nothing but energy in this manifestation.

That image is seemingly making us real. So now we've got this conceptual image of the belief. Energy of belief has gone into it and it's seemingly real. I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, seemingly this conceptual image is what I am. And everything becomes relative to that me. Me is the image of God. And relativity, that word relativity means relation, relating to. Relationship. And we've got all these relationships. We call it the male-female relationship. We think that's the worst one or the greatest one. But every other concept is relative to that me. All our thoughts are relative to something. Not just a pure thought.

It's relative to this conceptual image because it's related to me. I like it. I don't like it. I'm not good enough. Or I'm fearful. Or I'm anxious. Or I'm unhappy. Little moments come up and everything's okay. I'm okay. I'm joyous. I'm happy. But everything is transient in this manifestation. It's constantly changing. But we don't want the good things to go. We want to keep them there. Not real or being transient. The bad's going to come up too. And you can't separate them. Can there be good without bad? Can there be pleasant without pain? Can there be happiness without... What's the opposite of happiness? Sadness. There can't be.

There can't be. So for that relationship to be, there's got to be an opposite. And that's what's happened. And we go into the opposites and the opposites seem to become more and more. And the good part seems to be less and less. So we're constantly in this psychological suffering. The fear, the anger, the depression, the guilt. Because what's affected? It's that conceptual image. Which is not stagnant. It's constantly changing. And we don't want that to happen. We want to keep it there. The same image there all the time. Same happiness, the same joy. And it couldn't be any other ways if it didn't vibrate into the opposite.

Could there be day without night? Day is light. Darkness is night. There couldn't be one without the other. Couldn't be winter without summer. Couldn't be you without me. I understand that. For me, that's what you're saying. There couldn't be me without you. So the opposites are constantly functioning. And naturally, we like the good stuff. We like what is joyous and pleasant and happy. And we don't want the bad. Not realizing that they're the one essence. Two ends of the one stick, as I like to call it. Just that one vibrating into each end. The good, bad, pleasant, painful. Couldn't be one without the other. So there's an eschatology that says, Realize you are dreaming a dream you call the world.

This is all a dream. It's all this manifestation, this appearance that we take to be real. Realize you're dreaming a dream you call the world. And stop looking for ways out. Stop trying to get out of the dream. It's your problem. Wake to the dream. See it as a dream. Stop dreaming a dream you call the world. And stop looking for ways out. He says the dream's not your concern. Don't be worried about it. Let the dream be how it ought to be. When you are in the dream and sleep, is it your concern then? The things that are going on might be too good.

But who's separating them from the dream? Who's separating them from the dream? You're not separating yourselves and saying, It's good or bad or pleasant. Nobody. That dream character in the dream is believing it's true. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is that you love one part of the dream. We love the good. And you hate the other. You don't want the other. And he tells you there and then, Love all of it. See it all as the one. And the rest will be done for you. And to say you don't have to try to do anything or do anything. It happens by itself.

That naturally comes. About it happens. Love all of it or none of it. So when the bad things come up, instead of trying to force them out, which we do, leave them there. Because they're transient. Everything is transient. It's constantly changing. There's no static point anywhere that you can say, This is where it is. The static point where it starts. Try and find it if you can. And see that. That's another thing in the investigation. Never look and see if there is any static point. And there is no self nature to anything. We've got this personal self. I am the self. But there's no self nature to anything.

There's only the one essence which you call the self. Which is self aware. It's self shining. It's self seeing. It's self hearing. It's self tasting. It's self smelling. It's self living. Being. It's all the one essence. All the one self is doing a lot. Which again, we've divided by words, concepts. In the beginning was the word, and the word was God. We're dividing up with concepts and words. Taking the word to be real, and suffering because of the word. That's all the suffering comes about from. The belief we are this personal entity. A person. Something separate and apart from. But when you recognise all the one essence, and the rest will be done for you, leaving it as it is.

And when you look back on it and see, when you came into existence, it's grown you ever since then, and brought the sperm and the ovum together. Which formed the little embryo, the little fetus. And that's what you are today. But it's changed hasn't it? Transient has certainly changed. Instead of calling it the embryo now, it's the fetus. And that's what you are today. But it's changed hasn't it? Instead of calling it the embryo, and the fetus, or the sperm and the ovum, we call it me, or I. The body, mind, the person. We've just put different labels on it. Taking the word to be real, and because of that, we suffer.

The anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the fear, and the dislike of somebody, or the wanting somebody else has got. Or the hating and the envy, all these things come about. Because we've got this sense of separation. On something, some seeming thing that was never separate in the first place, never will be, or never could be. So again, start from the fact that you already are that. I am that. Then, if you're starting from behind the eight ball, I am Bob the Australian, I've got to become this, I've got to get rid of all this psychological suffering, and there's loads and loads of it there. I've got to go through each one, I've got to take inventories and go through each one, and cast this one off and force this one aside.

But see, it's the one essence. It's all that one. Nothing's separate from it at all. And recognise that. There's no self-nature or no reference point. Instead of starting from the eight, behind the eight ball and going through all that, getting rid of that stuff, and the fact that I am already, already that. Already and ever that. I always was, always will be, and only that. It's one without a second. It's non-dual. So you can only be that. Then most of the battle's over. And you realise that what I am seeking, I already am. And to realise from that the search has been the problem. But in a way it was good.

Because I hadn't recognised, or hadn't got that urge to see there was a little bit more than this, I wouldn't have started the search. The search puts me on my way, but the search is not the be all and end all. You've got to go to the search to the actual recognition of what I am already. Re-cognise. And what is again called a cognising emptiness. And it's an emptiness that's cognising. We think we've got to cognise the emptiness or know the emptiness. But it's the emptiness itself that has that capacity to cognise or know. Anybody who's not knowing right now, so that cognising is going on.

But if you lose sight of it, and you get back into the me again, looking for this, that, now, that's what needs to do. Pause. Stop. Do something or rather whatever you need to do, relieve yourself of it, to re-cognise. I saw the before, this before. I had tasted it before, and I saw through it. And I know it wasn't the me. But the me's come back. How the hell can something that's not there ever come back? What's just come back is the belief that you are this persona that you've ringed for day in and day out all your life. You saw through it for a little while, but then the old habit came up, and you thought it was there again.

What do you need to do? Go back to where you saw through it. If I saw through it the other day, that's what happened to me. And I said, I'll never be caught in the mind again. I was almost immediately. But the innate intelligence told me, hang on, you saw that there was nothing there. Was I right or was I wrong? Was I telling myself bullshit or was I wrong? What I need to do is have another look. And I had another look. And I say, once you see the false is false, you'll recognize it again and again if you look into it again and again until the recognition becomes the spontaneous natural state.

Just like the locking into the conceptual image has suddenly become the conceptual natural state. But it's not. That's where the patterns are. So we're going to be free of all these beliefs. We can believe of this selfishness and rid of this selfishness, the self-centeredness and self-will. And that's the statement they put in the big book of AA. Selfishness, self-centeredness, self-will run riot. That, we think, is the problem. It's not your booze or the drugs or the concepts you have about yourself. It's the selfishness, self-centeredness, self-will that we're relating to. And it says, above all, above everything else, we must be rid of the selfishness. We must, or it kills us.

Not the drugs or the alcohol or the undercoats. Because when you look at it and recognize the selfishness, those things are going to drop away. When I was four, I thought I couldn't live without a drink. I couldn't live without it. It was desperate. But I've lived for nearly 60 years without it. What was my mind telling me? Bullshit. You're crap. And I've smoked for many years. I haven't smoked for a long time. I thought I couldn't do without a cigarette. Give me another smoke. But I've lived without cigarettes for a long time. My mind again was telling me bullshit. It was telling me I was this person, this poor me.

And that's not so, though. So, I say again, it's just still locking into the old habits of bullshit we've got. Look for the truth and see for yourself. It's very simple and easy to recognize. But the old habits, when we try and get it through the next book, the next mantra or the next satsang we go to, try and get it through. They can be pointers. As I say, their pointers can help you to it. But you've got to recognize what they're pointing to. And all of them that have got really worth it are pointing to the one thing. You are already that. That is the great mantra.

I am that. Everything is that. Innately, don't you already know that? When you speak, you say, that's the chair. That's the carpet. That's Bill. That's me. That's you. Everything is that. And the label we put on the that-ness is Bill, me, you, chair, table. They're all words. We go back to when the beginning was the word. It all starts from there. That's your problem. And the words can be very useful. And when you recognize them and utilize them, they will be useful. The word won't be the problem. It won't bother you. It won't bother you at all. And when we've got this conceptual image and take the word to be real, that's when all your problems start.

So, I think that's enough out of this one. I can put my ears in now. Did you hear that? Wonderful. Way you go. Everybody can have their say. And don't be frightened of what you might put your say. It might be right or wrong. It might not. It might resonate with somebody else. I'm too shy or I don't want to say anything. Express what is there. You keep your ears and I'll update you guys on the Puddingness and Bob story because it's just such a sweet story and he will have the time to put that in. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was probably 50 or 60 years ago. The guy, the young bloke, 16-year old Harry, was visiting his family and he wanted his ears pierced. And Bob, good-hearted, he'll help him so he did, he pierced his ears. A couple of days later, Mum came of 16-year-old boy and she had a go with the boy like, Who did that to you? A frightened boy, look at Bob. And the mother had a go with him again.

You know what I mean? stop looking at Bob poor innocent Bob and it stuck for life Bob didn't even had a chance to say to admit his wrongdoing because he's already got labeled nobody would believe it anyway so the experiment was taking ears off succeeded yeah Julia says sending Bob and those listening some of the love that flows as I listen I love you all especially you Bob I know that nothing is special and everyone is special but I keep noticing a repetitive thought Bob is extra special I'm so grateful Bob you're welcome yes Bob is the most lovable creature love you Julia yeah all innocence itself yeah and especially those who do the wrong things you know they're like not Bob piercing the ears of a poor little hurry but anyone who does the task to say nothing is special to Bob.

Yes Bob is the most lovable creature love you too Julia yes Bob is the most lovable creature yeah the most lovable creature love you too Julia things because of their values. You know, if they value wealth over love, they will behave differently. If they value security over connection, they will behave differently. If they value contribution and giving, they will behave differently. And nobody really chooses it. It is the society, it is the environment, it is the school, the parents, that conditions and creates every pattern. Like all the world, everything that happened to us creates us for what we are, what we value, how we behave.

So everyone is innocent, even if they are, even if they are sociopaths, they're still innocent. They are because they didn't choose to be this way. They didn't choose to value one thing over the other. It's the society that conditioned them. Perhaps they heard from the parents or someone that, oh, you know, I need this or you need that. Collective self-centeredness. Yeah. And the fear and the... Selfishness and... Just selfishness, self-centeredness, that's the root of all problems. Yeah. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking. We step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate, seemingly without provocation. Yes, yeah. But at one time we made a decision based on self that placed us in a position to be hurt.

It's all in the big book. Yeah. It's so accurate. It is. So accurate. Amazing. And what about karma and like playing out the dream as it's playing out and how much, what about rebirth and suffering and learning through suffering? What's reborn? What was born? I'm reading I Am That and this is when I asked him about karma and whether you can be reborn. How often do you have lost consciousness and whether some, something stays, when you're reborn? He does talk about an essence, like in the consciousness that can be reborn. It is. Moment to moment. It won't be reborn, the total life itself. It's life itself, that's the essence is life, one life.

You know, you take that life out of the body, you got a corpse. Yeah. Yeah. Then what's gonna be reborn? Rot and fall apart. But life is continually out of the body. I get it. out of life, more life comes. That's what he says. There's no room for death in life. Life lives on life. So karma is cause and effect really. If you're not relating to a cause, can there be an effect? The whole universe, so everything kind of is. Yeah, but what's the universe? Maya, illusion, appearance only, what was ever born. When did it begin? If this is my dream, where is everyone else in the dream?

Is it a collective dream from there? When you say my dream, who's claiming the dream? Without it, can you negate the beingness, the life itself? Can you say I am not? Well that's your truth, isn't it? I am that already. Disturb it and break it up with thoughts or concepts. But when, you know, if you're not breaking up with thoughts or concepts, it's the unborn Buddha mind, pure mind, life. Bob, you have the good analogy with the drop of water taken out of the ocean. It's like the drop is symbolizing the life essence. When it drops into the ocean, which means it connects to the consciousness, can you ever take the same drop?

Because they both are the same. I believe that there will be a separate soul that will travel to the next bodies. But the moment the consciousness comes back to itself, dissolves as space, can you ever extract the same sort of a pattern out of it? You can't. And the consciousness is, you could say, is born moment to moment as a form, you know, it manifests as a form. It's the same one life coming up as this body, this tree, this stone, this... ceiling, lamp or whatever. So it isn't that there is a separate sort of entity or soul or spirit that keeps shape and travels.

Of course it is when you believe it, because you imagine it into existence, just like Santa Claus is when you believe it. But technically, if it is all made of nothing and it comes back into nothing, that nothing is the one that travels. That nothing is the same one life that incarnates into nothing. It's the same life that incarnates into every single form. It's the same life incarnating in my form, yours, Bob's and everyone's. So it's not a rebirthing, really, it's just birthing. But you could say that the same life incarnates in every single thought. Every thought is a manifestation of that life. It's the same life expressing as a thought image.

Creation and that thing includes all of that karma, that's part of the... If that's part of the manifestation or the creation, if that karma happens to be part of the beliefs, then that's real. And if it's not, it's not. Is that right? Is this right, Bob? Is this right, what he says? Karma is part of the manifestation or if it's belief? If you like to call it that. No, it's belief. It's belief, yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, see, you resonate with what's being said here. You know a lot of it, don't you? And you resonate. But then you're hanging on to this little bit about me, the karma, and going to try and find out what the me is.

There's no such thing as me. So who's going to have karma for a start? There's a parent who's seemingly causing an effect in nature. You know, they couldn't be died without dark and all the rest of it. But it's still only their parents. Parents isn't real. And has anybody, you know, been looking into this karma for some... What? For a while? Have you ever found any solution to it? Can you tell me anybody that has? That's just another way of torturing yourself, really. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Good to see that. Another way to torture someone. I love, there's a line in, there's a line in an Eagles song, Hotel California, where it says, You can check out, but you can never leave.

Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's life itself. Mm-hmm. You know, life, living on life. That's what it was. It came into that body. What was it? It was the essence of the food. Well, there was even life in that essence, food essence, and things like that. There's no, it wasn't ever life, seemingly. It might have been in some pattern, shape and form. But the pattern, shape and form is my illusion, phenomenal manifestation. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So, you are the life. It writes out there. Without life in that body, what can you see? What can you hear? What can you eat? What can you drink? What can you do? So, what's ruining it? Can you move your finger? It's life. Yeah. Yeah, and that life is really, if that wasn't in there, the finger wouldn't be much good either. I couldn't give the finger to anyone. That's why I call it the unborn. Unborn. mind when there's nothing going on it's just pure any manifestation to appear it's got a pattern expressed through something I was thinking about quality and good and bad behaviour and crime and all of that is all kind of irrelevant if nothing in fact can affect anything There is no self-centred to relate to.

What is it? Just the unborn Buddha mind. Why exchange the unborn for thought? But it'll still appear to be so. But it'll take a lot of the hassle out of it when you're no longer reinforcing the belief by putting the energy of belief into it. I just remember one liner from the book that our friend Chris wrote about nine pieces of Zen. There was a beautiful quotation from one of the thousand years old Zen texts When the sight of the way is lost Morality and conduct comes on board. When you lose the sight of the way that's when you need all the rules. Yeah and I think I was just thinking about that.

I was thinking, the conduct and the rules were created because of self-centredness You know, people were running rampant and so they had to put some kind of restriction so that the masses if you like Uh huh. weren't just totally running around like headless chooks, if you like. But it came about because people were selfish, self-centered, were just running rampant. And so everything was happening as it should to create those. And yet, nothing ever changed. In reality, there's only one. And that's that story in the Bible about Moses on the mountain. I don't know if it was him or not, or who it was, but one of them.

And he's looking after the Jewish people. And they're playing up, and there's all sorts of strife. He said, what can I do? And that's when the so-called tablets of the Ten Commandments came to him. I'll give them those, and this will quieten them down a bit. Run their lives around. But he says, how are they going to believe me? Here's what I say. Sent me, when I go back and tell them. And the voice came to him, tell them I am sent you. And Moses realized, shit, I am that I am. That's the presence. Even obeying certain rules or code of conduct are already conditioned in the bodies.

Like a suicide bomber has different set of beliefs, and it will obey different set of conducts. But it didn't really just appear out of nowhere. If the whole setup wasn't prepared, the whole environment didn't cooperate to create the eligibility for that expression. Yeah, so he is totally innocent. It couldn't have happened any other way. Everybody in this room will have a conversation. And you have a concept about you. And as soon as you walk into the room and see all that, you form a concept about them. Might be very subtle. And you have a concept about yourself. We all got a concept about ourselves. I'm Bob, this guy, blah, blah.

Which concept would be right? When you understand all the concept is, is a mental construct made up of thoughts. An image made up of thoughts. And you realize that no concept can be right. So without a concept, who can ever be superior to you? Who can ever be inferior to you? And what would you want of the other person then? If you know we're the same totality. You only want something from somebody else if you think you're going to get some benefit. Or you don't want to have anything to do with it if you think they're going to take something away from you. And all the problems in the world come about from that.

If it's just seen as a totality. Self-centered. Position. Like, yeah, like if you're saying like I've got morals and conduct. It's sort of assuming there's a person there who's navigating that. But if it's, if I'm just in awareness, all of those behaviors will change as a result. Yeah, but as I was saying, the code of conduct and all those things. And Moses giving the people the Ten Commandments. All the Ten Commandments came about because people were selfish, self-centered and were just running rampant over each other. But in reality, in reality, you know, there's no one to have any code. There's no one to have any.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just what is. It's just another way life is having it. Yeah. It's just because the society has been created this way. The responses have been created. Yeah. But if I'm just in awareness, non-dual, there's no me there. But there's going to be different occurrences and conduct and behaviors. You know what I mean? It's not coming from that. That's just egoic position. Spontaneous. Yeah. That's sort of what I was trying to get around to. Yeah, that's right. Correct. It's quite hard though to find a way of managing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm . Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. All right. Yeah. Okay, all right. You have a question for us? You have a question here. You go to the front desk. Go ahead. You go to the front desk. Okay. Imagine if there was no winter and no summer and no day and no night. There would be nothing. That's why the different expressions, the expressions of hatred and the expressions of love, they are both part of the play up of the Maya, of the expression that infinite everything or totality expresses as the polarity. Because if it wasn't a polarity, there would be absolutely nothing.

That's the only way it can taste itself as the other. So it can have a taste of itself at all because there is no other way that the one can know the one rather than just dreaming to be something else. And something else has to be a pair of opposites because... With us, we've got the words and we put meaning into the words. The cat's not saying this is good or that's bad. If he likes something, he'll go for it. If he doesn't, if it's something he doesn't understand, he'll try and pat it and... See what it is. Chloride out and play with it. And it might get a taste of it and eat it.

On an energetic level, so if you witness a contraction and this contraction happens here and then there's a reaction, you don't like that. If you witness expansion, expansion happens here and there's an I like that. So you might as well just sit with the I don't like contraction and I like expansion and that's a nice pure way to also then lose those resistances. That's beautiful. Beautiful pointer. You see them on the same page. Beautiful pointer because there's no intention anywhere to actually modify our preferences and have equal neutral position towards the murderer, towards someone who congratulate. No, the natural response, like even the cat or dog, if you put them on a hot stove, they will have preference towards comfort rather than discomfort.

The thing is to actually embrace that preference arising as completely impersonal response. So you see the harm being made and your heart crunches and maybe the action arises and that is part of the appearance. That's not you. You are the space in which that happens. And it's beautiful that those responses are naturally conditioned and it's beautiful that you would rather opt for love than for harm because that's the part of the beauty. That's the part of duality. And the people that are in the room, they're not in the room. They're in the room. And the people that opt for harm, they're trying to protect something.

They've been conditioned. They're trying to protect something or they're trying to resist something or they're trying to, you know. Yeah, they don't know when they're better. Yeah, that's right. So that comes out of their conditioning to, they have a vested interest in the me or in the ego or in the self-centre. And we can sit with the two equally. That's right. And Bob used to say you're either attracted or repelled. So you can watch that arising that, you know, you're either attracted or repelled from any person, place or thing. You can watch it even though there is no person. But you can watch it happening here.

And then there's beauty in the repel as well. Just to see. It's all a spontaneous emulation. Don't try and work out before how I'll handle this situation or blah blah. Leave it in the spontaneity. It'll unfold by itself. Everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. Why exchange the unborn for thought? That's what Tony was saying. Sit equally with both. Sit equally with whatever arises that is pleasant or comfortable and whatever arises is uncomfortable. That's the unborn mind. To speak English I need to learn words and letters of English. By definition, if I want to harm others, I must have a separate entity. Because if I feel everything trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, trees, mountains, city, people, river, sky, everything just like my body parts.

How can I harm them? Is there any need or requirement for someone to teach me the morality? Of course not. Because people lost the oneness through the learning ... through the reasoning capacity of learning words. So now theologists and philanthropists and philosophers somehow create an artificial version of morality and now they want to dictate that artificial version of morality to people and as we can see they were extremely unsuccessful natural that morality which is natural must come from oneness and there is nothing other than oneness if I feel everything as myself which it is how can I harm others and others are not just humans they also trees they also yeah yeah yeah I keep driving insects and it sort of bothers me halfway through finishes I apologize when I kill the flies and then I realized that then I knew the insects there and the tap got turned on and then it gets finished the tap stays on and it was like did it again and nobody cares about the bacteria but if I felt I was that if I felt I was that insect from the first I probably wouldn't none of that process would probably take place we'll get back to where we were before on karma cause and effect you know numerous causes all causes can be traced back like the drop going into the ocean put a pepper throw a pebble in the ocean and the movement will start the waves will go in they go on and go on and go on forever and ever and they're not going on they'd simply take up other patterns which would seemingly more causes that's all the one it's been said in the nature for example in jungle uh statistically two-thirds of animals must kill another animal to only leave one day uh we humans uh separate entities put a label on it we call it This is Cruel This is uh you're strong and he's or she'd week do something very wrong uh the nature doesn't know this maybe it's just happening yeah it just happens we used this method method of not labeling on anything in our daily life it extremely decrease lot of negativity thoughts and emotions because awareness doesn't know good and bad you know awareness say yes to all experience you want to burn me alive yes you want to hug me yes you want to give me a gift yes you want to kill me cut my head yes yes yes yes no resistance yes and reborn again and renew again this is life there's a division of sentience to like nobody blames the meteor for killing the planet but you know they blame the lion for killing the mouse we cannot also say that's okay Hitler killed 60 million people that's okay you know it's it's different a little bit you know I think I made a mistake you know morality exists but the only morality is natural morality which comes from oneness the rest is just you know you certainly have something like a human perspective or individual perspective I remember when I was 12 year old I had this we had this notebooks where all the kids were putting up answering questions and the questions are who you who would you want to be when you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow up and you grow there is of course suffering death crucifixion all of it happens to the single drop but I want it to be a water the water not the drop being a water the part the drops the fume the the steam the rain all of it is included and the water is just traveling through that circle of transformation but it still is a water though steam water and ice they all still H2O like Bob is saying so if you assume the perspective of life itself where is the Hitler and his crimes in life itself how would the humanity or the world look right now if there was no death even for five or ten years if there was no sickness or how would the transformation growth and even a waking awakening process happening if there was no physical suffering that's unthinkable life the way it presents itself it flows it's a process of life and it's a process of life and it's a process of life and it's a process of life and in itself it circles and transforms and changes it's perfect as it is from the life perspective because from individual perspective absolutely there is pain there is tragedy there is drama there is a room for compassion there is a room for contribution there is room for growth and it is all valid because as part of the play as part of the ride so the water becomes a drop and it dies in the ocean but it has a life before that that's the of that holographic manifestation, every single cell has a life, is individual and the collective at the same time.

So now you are individual and the collective at the same time and you can experience both to the fullest. Whilst people usually experience only one and that's limiting, that one experiencing itself as separate is limiting, is painful. It feels like there are good moments of it, of course. Everyone loves to be, even though life is tough, everyone still nobody wants to, you know, when there is a threat. Or even we watched a movie recently about people who survived the airplane crash. Everyone was so overjoyed and grateful, crying of gratitude. Obviously they were happy they survived. And who didn't have the near, like near death almost experience in a way that, Oh my God, I'm so happy I survived.

And who didn't have the near, like near death almost experience in a way that, Oh my God, Oh my God, I'm so happy I survived. And who didn't have the near, like near death almost experience in a way that, Oh my God, gosh I could have died in this moment who didn't drive and have this near miss happening and the overwhelming joy when you escape that final destination just for now this is loving to be also and this is to be appreciated this is the way that the consciousness expressing as that drop of water can actually appreciate the ride this is this is totally to be appreciated and the opportunity to love to choose love over the harm what a ride why would you not do that I mean the the reward coming from within because this is like you know the machine the sugar cane machine that squeezes the juice out of a sugar cane is the one that feels the sweetness first so if I choose love love is experienced here doesn't matter where will I place it who will I give it to it is experienced here first so even though it feels like duality oh yeah you know but you should be neutral you are you always are neutral ask the space but on the experience on the ride as the individual body you don't have to you can choose love to all your liking why not I mean it's just so much more yummy than being right for example or doing the correct thing or being right by of course your limited opinions you know you want to be a suicide bomber because that's the right thing to do by your religion yeah how much more beautiful is to love and contribute rather than to be right or to be correct or to be what was it ethical and honest yeah choose love and contribution why not I mean not that you have choice again of course not you know this this you may get inspired obviously you chris you already are you know you and innately everyone who knows that you know that core of the morality that natural essence of wanting to rather protect than kill it is there it can be evoked it can be inspired inspirational words can actually bring it up that was wouldn't be you choosing that would be environment environment setting up inspiration for that resonation for that response to love and contribution that's right so it's critical that to come up.

That's how the illusion of choice is constructed. The whole universe collaborates and sets up the stage and the choice appears. Even if you had five years of no pain and no death, and it did create a paradigm where there was more awakening, the experience of not even mattering in any which way brings out far more joy than the five years of no pain and death. I totally agree with you. Experience of freedom from preference. Life knows the way it wants to show up and it does as it wills. Who are you to say it is wrong? Exactly. You watch people even at the lot less, it's a lot more fun, that's for sure.

Even the bad. Yeah, because it drops off very quickly. It just becomes more and more. It just becomes sensational, vibrational. That's right. A show, like you say, much more quickly. Independent. Or normal. Yeah. The play of consciousness. Like when you said, we're just the space in which stuff happens. Yeah. Flowing through. The phenomena. That's why space cannot be known, because the space is the one that is doing the knowing. That's why all the phenomena can be discarded. That's an object. That's an object. That's an object. They could be seen as an object because that's how we actually do investigation to find out what is the one that's knowing, what is the knowing principle.

Yeah, yeah. It's actually Buddhist terminology. It's quite old. No, no. It doesn't matter. Everyone uses it. It doesn't belong to anyone, really. And you are the floating, not the floater. Yes. Well, I think that brings up a different image. Me too. Not that pile. Nice breakfast, text, lunch. Very good one-liner. I love that. The floating, not the floater. Yeah. Very, very imaging. You come from a long line of gutter humour. You are the floating, not the floater. Coming from a gutter humour. A long line of gutter humour, yeah. Yeah, Tony's good at that. Bob's not bad either. What? A gutter humour. Me? Poor enough and poor.

Was it Bob's joke, the mouse and the elephant? Yeah. Was that one go? Yeah. Oh yeah, say it. It's very much toilet humour. Say it, Michael. Do you want me to say it? Yeah. Okay, so there's a mouse and he's going through the jungle. And there's an elephant there. And the mouse was pretty randy. You know, he'd been without for a little while. So he's wandering around and he's looking for another mouse. And he couldn't find one. And he saw this elephant. And he goes, that'll do. So he goes to the elephant. And he climbs up its leg and up its tail. And he's kind of enjoying himself, you know.

And the elephant steps on a thorn and goes, roars. And the mouse goes, suffer, baby, suffer. And he's like, oh, you're a good boy, I love you. Is that your mouse? Is that the mouse? Yeah. Yeah. And it looks like a nice little mouse. And it looks like an elephant running up its tail. It looks like a nice little mouse. Does it have a horn? Yeah. Oh, I love it. What about the mouse, Bob? Is that a different mouse? No, it wasn't. It wasn't as good as that one. Wasn't it a giraffe and an ant? No, it was an elephant and an ant crawling up an elephant's leg with intense rape.

Not as good as Michael's. No, Michael's was good, yeah. Yeah, all interpretations. What Zen is saying is that the world is constructed. The world is interdependently arising, which we can't say whether it exists or doesn't, but it's also constructed by mental activity and interpretation. We give the frames to everything that happens, interpret it, comparing to the past experiences, and that creates the unique experience that is completely, completely imagined, constructed in the mind. Isn't it cool? Yeah. I've got this stuff sitting here, and it feels guilt from something I've done or something that's occurred. So sometimes it feels like when something happens that's perhaps a bit off the beam, and then...

there's an energetic consequence or something. I don't know if that makes any sense. So what are your thoughts on that? I would say that's a fantastic arrangement that nature came up to give you a feedback. And then, based on that feedback, you can perhaps see the uneasiness, where it comes from. Does it come from the label? Or perhaps it's even deeper, perhaps it comes from the heart that wants to respond in a more generous sensation. But is it uncomfortable? Yeah. It's a beautiful feedback. That's feedback. Yeah. And so how I see it is, or how this sees it, is if something makes you uncomfortable, it's uncomfortable.

But a decision's been made to place you in a position to be hurt. Mm. And, you know, that's a pointer to a pattern. Mm. And that pattern isn't who you are. Yeah, that's exactly what's good. Mm. Mm. And so, as Kat rightly said, that's a beautiful way of... that feeling of dis-ease is a beautiful way to point you back to who you really are. Mm. Mm. And for you to see that pattern and to see that it's not you. Mm. It's a, as Paul Hedeman puts it, a parasitic movement. Yeah. I love that, that it's a parasitic movement. A pattern is basically a parasitic movement because it comes from a self-centre.

It does, yeah. Yeah. And that's not who you are. Almost like instinctual though. Mm. Is instinct still self-centred though? Instinct, yeah. I think instinct is a very important thing. I think instinct is a very important thing. Yeah. And instinct is a very important thing. Mm. Mm. Instinct. Yeah. If there's an unravelling like Kat was saying before, all these millions of things just all come together. Is this nothing, even more than that becomes a filtered story? If something, if something makes this feel uncomfortable, it's usually, it's usually, well you know, you can be attracted and repelled to things. But if it's an old pattern, it's usually coming out of a, you know, selfish self-centred.

Yeah. self-seeking thing which still isn't you but um but yeah you don't go back and you know do it again if if if possible because why why would you want to feel uncomfortable um so it has to you know it gets seen and it gets seen and sometimes you begin to outgrow it and sometimes it takes a little longer and it's all good because every time you see it uh every time or every time it's seen uh it dissipates because when it's seen for what it truly is and the decision is actually seen as a as a parasitic movement if you like or a self-centered movement um you know you're not that and it'll just dissipate it'll be you it'll be begin to be outgrown but there's no one to outgrow it yeah if you know what i mean it's a bit paradoxical but that's what it is not going there sort of thing it's yeah i know because um old habits die hard sometimes they're like the grooves in a record and they're and they're you know group those grooves can be quite deep yeah but it's nothing to feel guilty about because there's no one to feel guilty it's just the universe or the functioning as cat so rightly put it allowing you to see it i think that's a good point not not taking on a story of guilt around no no because that's self-obsession too that's all self yeah yeah also if you could actually see that pattern in a way that is completely neutral like be curious about it don't label us it as good or bad but just be curious oh what an interesting response happening here in the body oh i wonder how long it's gonna last and not have a story about it that this is anything that shouldn't be or something that you deserved or no story at all just the curiosity about the pattern because when you are the pure space open space of curiosity welcoming whatever shows up you are the emptiness and the pattern is what appears it's not you so it is not even if you want to call it guilt it's not your guilt it's just a pattern of guilt and then yeah it is it is life is just gonna guide you life is gonna do whatever it does like jane beautifully explained yes the more you actually see it the more you outgrow it or dissolve it because if you see it in a neutral way you don't try to push it away you don't try to resist it extinguish it do something fix it alter modify correct it that is being starved it's just totally it's it's not being fed it just doesn't get a food and it is actually i would say it is to be welcomed because if there is any sort of a old conditioning present here and it shows up oh welcome you know give it a space because it is there it is what life it is another beloved child of the of the universe that shows up it's not yours if it's not yours it's not a problem it doesn't have to be fixed two sets of things happen and right now the details aren't coming to me but one is the non-dual stuff so it just becomes meaningless and two three steps that i noticed just show up as it is out to nothing and that can become stronger the other one which seems to be much more prevalent one for me and it's happening a lot more and helping a lot more lately is that noticing say for example i had external fears but i noticed they were running away from internal sadnesses and then just mental activity was running away from the external fears you know the pattern just didn't like it when it went to the next step of ignoring it and so as these um things became more evident then the dissipation was happening but i could also see see the clarification also showing up as to the reactions in the body and also which triggers were tending to bring in which reactions which didn't really matter if you don't notice that stuff so much but that's sitting with that was sitting with and all that neutrality is part of both um so it seems to be here and i'm more useful and there's no idea that I'm planning any of that.

But here the removal, the removing of the reactions to the triggers, wow, creates a lot more space here than the recognitions that this is just meaningless and there's you know the non-dual side because there's been a lot of work done on that and yeah this seems to be where I'm much more distracted by the triggers than this and this showing up. I like what you said that the pattern doesn't like to be ignored you know you just give it this is beautiful because when you ignore the pattern and run away to the head that's yeah that's yeah that's self-sabotage. And then some of the inner ones show up more like a sadness will show up more so for example I have a pattern of running to train on the same page and so because most of Paul Herman's discourse is not really doesn't suit me it suits most people who come here but for me it's a bit more of a pattern.

I think it's a bit more of a pattern. It's more what's there before and that's when things drop not the oh the other stuff about you know don't do this don't do that look at what you're not all that doesn't really work here but then the pattern of not being on the same page you know triggers so you know just sitting with the triggers of oh speaking to someone else again you know personalizing that you know not being on the same page. I totally forgot why I brought that up. What did you say? And ignoring the pattern. Yeah so actually this time I felt a bit of sadness in there that I wasn't on the same page you know even though I even though intellectually even even that's no one that's nothing to do with what's going on over in his person you see it's just a pattern here um yeah it was getting more to more parts that were run from one and that was kind of nice yeah and then but then when in his day talk at it um this chapter plays for some reason the energy was such that nothing was reacting at all it was just then just an empty room.

Yeah um but yeah that's interesting. Very good. Thank you. All right thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you.