Sailor Bob, Sailor Kat - nonduality 13 Oct 2019 - you were never separate

We don't teach you anything and we don't tell you anything. What we do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself because the so-called gift or whatever you like to call it is something that needs to be grasped and understood by you. Nobody's ever going to give it to you. You might have been told and it can be given to you and all the rest of it. A lot of the things I say to you, it's something you've got to recognize for yourself. The very fact that you come looking for it, looking for something, implies that there's something there in your nature that's not satisfied with the way you're living.

You'll be in all sorts of psychological suffering and fears. and things like that. And that's what we try to point you toward and ask you to look and see for yourself. And you'll find it's very simple if you can grasp it. But we're so conditioned to a lot of the beliefs we've taken on board and continually reinforce that we don't. It's hard to look along these lines from the way we've been looking constantly in the mind and through other people and everything else. There's nothing in you we point to. You'll see it's the base of all the ancient traditions. All the different religions are based on it.

That is the idea there's a God and that God is one God. In Hinduism they call it they have five name five factors for it Satyajitadananda and Amarupa. But they've got thousands of different names for this God. And so every religion will have a different concept of what they believe this God is. Basically they all tell you it's only the one. God is the one. If it's one if it's absolute that one can be the one. Can you be anything other than that? It doesn't mean you and God. It means God is the one the so-called creator sustainer and maintainer of everything. And they put that label God on it and that's the term that people in all the different traditions use and all get different concepts and different ideas from it.

But miss out on the simplicity. When they give the five factors in Hinduism that's one way to say it. The five factors are Satyajitadananda and Amarupa. Sat is existence. Jita is consciousness. Ananda is bliss or loving to be. And Amarupa is the name and the form. Have a look at that. Anyone who is not existing right now and you'll know you'll say now I am existing. Anyone who is not conscious or aware now I'm not not unaware so I must be aware. I'm not unconscious so I must be conscious. Anyone who is not happy to be no matter what's going on in your mind you'd rather be alive than dead.

You are that Satyajitadananda and Amarupa already. But when we believe we've got to become something or try and get it and go on a search you see the impossibility of that. Where would you be looking for it? You'd be looking for it in the mind trying to find an answer in the mind. Through the next book you read the next satsang you go to or the next talk you hear or whatever. And all those talks, readings like that something in them might grab some sentence or some little chapter or some page or something you hear and might resonate. And that resonation means there's something innately within you that already recognises or understands it.

And that's what we call a re-cognising or in Buddhism they call it a cognising emptiness. And we think we have to cognise all that emptiness. But it's the emptiness itself that's doing the cognising. I call the emptiness the space-like awareness or the essence that's suffusing that space-like awareness is doing the cognising suffused with that intelligence or knowing. There's not some old guy up there in the sky or anywhere else. That's natural energy that's suffusing everything every particle of this manifestation. And the Buddha made the statement that it's a cognising emptiness and he said emptiness is form. Meaning that emptiness is patterning, shaping and forming everything in this manifestation.

Everything. There's nothing you can postulate outside of that space. No word or sound or voice or noise could be outside of the silence. It's all contained within the emptiness. Emptiness is form and he pointed that out when he turned it around the other way and he said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So you and I the trees, the flowers and everything are forms. So we are actually the emptiness. So in those few statements I made I pointed out clearly to you that that is all there is and you are already that. And that's the Mahavacca or the great mantra. I am that.

And you realise that innately you know that in your language. Because don't you say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the everything out there, that's the birds, that's everything is that. But what differentiated it? We put the labels of all the words. Chair, flower, carpet, you, me, everything which is already that. It's one and they say it's one without a second. This non-duality is one without a second. It's not two. And everything is one without a second. It's not two. And everything, any number of things, any number at all must start from one or zero and then there's one and then there's two and other shapes and forms.

But it's the one without the second. Not two. It's only the one. But the appearances and the words we put on it and discriminate it, we put all these different labels on it. We've got myriads of labels or words for everything in this manifestation. But if you've ever had a look at the word and you realise the word's not the thing, there's no word which is the actual thing. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word? Can you wash in the word? Can you drown in the word? You can't. The word fire, does it burn your mouth if you speak it?

Can you cook with the word or eat yourself with the word? You can't. Words are not the thing. But you didn't learn any words till you were about two, two and a half, when the capacity of reasoning started to work in you. So you're realising that that every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been picked up along the way. If you were the word and the word was the thing, you'd know it as soon as you were born. But you don't know it when you were born. You don't know it till your capacity of reasoning develops when you begin to learn words.

And you learn words from your parents. And your parents fussing around you, say you're little Johnny or little Billy, a good boy or a good girl. And you start to read and you say, I am little Johnny. This is me. This is I. And we form this conceptual image about ourselves. And when that little child looks out there, and you say, I am little Johnny. He looks out there and he says, that doesn't fit little Johnny. That's not me or that's not I. And that's when the separation comes upon us. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity and vulnerability. You become insecure and vulnerable from that point on.

And that's when the search actually starts. Then we're seeking something more. And that's when we start to think about our own self. We're seeking something more. Something to find out our true nature. And we'll become more secure and less vulnerable. But it doesn't happen. Because we're never separate in the first place. And we continue to look with the word, for the word, for the concept or some concept or a reason in the mind that will say, this is what I am. But you'll never find the answer in the mind. You've probably been seeking it for a while now and searching for a while and haven't found the answer.

And you're intelligent people, why haven't you found the answer? And it might dawn on you, well, I've been looking for the answer in the mind. And maybe the answer's not in the mind. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. And it'll take you a long until you start looking till you hear, if you continue to search for it, you might be happy in continuing in the search and staying with it 20 or 30 or more years with meditating and doing this with the idea I will become something at some future time if I carry on the search. But becoming is not being. Look at what you are right now.

You call yourself a human being. And you call God, if you believe in this thing, call God a supreme being. What happens if you take a look, take a look at yourself, take the word supreme off and take the word human off and try and separate the beingness in this room right now? You realize that's all there is, is being. Can you negate that beingness that you are? You can't negate the being that's there with you, as you say. And you can't, and you know that everything else is that being also because like that we talk about, that is a chair, a being, that's being a chair.

It's being the carpet, it's being the tree, it's being the flowers and the trees. Everything is that beingness. And beingness will never become because becoming implies a future time. And that's another thing we must investigate. We must investigate time. When you look at time and realize time, you'll see time is a mental concept also. There is no such thing as time. And question it and have a look. We've got the idea of past and future. Ask yourself this, is there a past if I don't think about it? And when you have a look at that, you'll say, without a thought, can you say there's a past or a future?

Pause a thought and see. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? You can't say there is any such thing as a past if I'm not thinking about it. And the same with the future. Is there a future if you don't think about it? You can't say there's any future. But you'll say, I was in the past. We're so in the habit of going back in the past. I was in the past. Well, have a look at that. Try and live a moment ago. Try and live last week or last year. You can't go back and live it at all. You can't go back a moment ago and live it.

But you can recall it. You can recall it from your memory. The only actuality you're giving it is when you're recalling it. If you don't recall it, it's gone. Same with the future. You can anticipate an imagination, imagine the future, what you're going to do when you leave here or next week and all the rest of it. But you can't live a moment in the future. And have a look at this concept now. People say you've got to try and stay in the now. I'll try and stay in the now. I'll try and get out of it. Because when does now begin? If you try and grasp it, you can't grasp it.

They'll say, I was now 20 years ago. That's stupidity, isn't it? Stupidity is not now. I'll be now next week. You say now, try and grasp it. Well, you can grasp it right now. And even as you're grasping it, it's ending. And even as it's ending, it's beginning again. And even as it's beginning again, it's ending again. So you see, it's spontaneous. It has no duration. And that's what time is, is duration. It's for you to get here to there or somewhere. It takes what you call time, duration, seeming duration. But every moment is spontaneous. What do we call a moment? It's not even a moment.

It's all spontaneous. And it's always ever fresh and ever new. It's always this immediacy. Fresh and new. And that's what they pointed out in Buddhism. They'll call it non-conceptual. Non-conceptual means without a concept, without a mental construct, without a thought. Ever fresh. Ever fresh means it's ever right here in this moment. Fresh and new. Again, I use the term moment, but there's no such thing. Ever fresh. Presence, awareness. And it is this presence that you are. And the awareness of that presence. Anybody who is unaware right now? No, you'll say, I am aware. And what are you aware of? You're aware of being present right in the moment.

So that's what you are, this presence awareness. Which we put labels, words and concepts on. When did you begin? You'll say, I began at birth. But can any one of you actually remember your birth? You can't remember your birth at all. Purely and simply because you didn't have any words. You didn't have, you know, your brain was formed when you first came out, but it hadn't learnt any words or any activities. Now you can't say you were born without the words, without the thinking, without the label. When did you begin? You began at birth, but you can't say your birth. Well, we'll go back and have a look.

We'll go back as far as your father and your mother. You can go back further if you want to. Look, investigate it yourself. The animating life essence, as you call your father, I say the animating life essence, the same animating life essence that's living here right now, enabled in that pattern through the prana, through the air he was breathing and the food he was eating, a little microscopic particle to form called a sperm. And that sperm was suffused with intelligence, innate intelligence, because it knew what to do. And the same animating life essence in your mother enabled in that pattern another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form in that pattern.

And that ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do, just the same as all this manifestation. And every cell in your body is suffused with an innate intelligence, knowing what to do. Intelligence is just an activity of knowing, of vibrating, a movement of energy. So when... What did the sperm do? The sperm swam to the ovum. It knew what to do and it penetrated the ovum. And when that sperm and ovum came together, what happened? That cell doubled, redoubled, and the little embryo, the little fetus, began to form. What were you doing about it then? If you think you're running the show as this person?

You realize you didn't do it. So I better grow a hand or an eye or a heart, you know? Because you didn't know anything about those things, how high in it. But the innate intelligence knew to form that pattern. It formed you and grew you and is still living you in this moment. But we thought we've lost sight of that. We've taken on the idea through the words we've learned, the things that we are this person. We've learned the word. Every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been learned, has been picked up along the way. And you could be learning new words to this day because there's a dictionary full of words and we don't know them all.

And I'm forgetting a lot of words. I'm getting old to the stage where I'm forgetting a lot. Every word we've ever learned was picked up. And it wasn't until about two, two and a half, you were living without the word, so you could get along quite well without the word. At two, two and a half, we've learned words. And we learned those words from our parents. We form these labels of words and we believe ourselves we are this person, this individual, this separate entity, this person. And where did that word person come from? It came from an ancient language called persona, the mask. So what's a mask?

A mask is a conceptual image we've got about ourselves, an image of thoughts, concepts and ideas. I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fellow. I'm not so good. I've got low self-esteem. I'm fearful of things. A conceptual image. And it's a dead image that that's what we don't realise. We're relating to a dead image. It's based on past events, experiences and conditions. It's not based on what is right now. Because to translate what is right now in words, you've got to bring words into it. But we're relating to this dead image. And the dead image can't keep up with life. Life is constantly ever fresh, as they say, and ever new.

Spontaneous. So we're trying to catch up with life all the time. And this is where our psychological suffering comes about from. Our anxiety, stress, grief, emotion, unhappiness, guilt, shame, remorse. Fleeting moments of joy when the mind is out of the way. A sense of wellbeing, a sense of presence comes about. But mainly go back into the thinking because this is what we're conditioned to do. We learnt words. We started to reason. We began to rely on the words. So we form this conceptual image. And everything becomes relative to that image. That's what all our problems are. Problems of relationship. Relationship or relativity is dualism. Me and the other.

Me and God, or me and this, me and that. And I tell you in the scriptures, those that understood it and worked it out, there is absolutely no duality in non-duality. Non-duality is one without a second, not two. And there never was, there's something here, there never was two, there never will be two, there never could be two. It's always that one that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing and expressing as everything. And have a look at that. Where does it all take place? Doesn't it take place in space, in emptiness? And think of something or postulate something that could be outside of space. And what would it be in?

If you talk about different universes, different patterns, what would they be in? Could they be in anything other than space? And how many spaces are there? We think this room we've got, this is closing space and boundaries. It's not. Or any of the planets or stars or anything else. And this earth rolling around space, even when the seasons come and all changes go on, it's still not contained outside of space. So there's nothing you can postulate outside of space. So we've taken on this. So we've taken on this belief that we are this persona, body, mind, entity. But have a look, are you the body?

Innately you know you're not the body because you say my body. If you were the body, would you say my body? You wouldn't, you'd say I body. But you say my body. So whose body is it? Is it this conceptual entity's body, this persona, this mask? It's a dead image, it's based on parts of this. Is it really? Is it that life essence itself which enables those words to form and express for you? But now they've made the mistake of saying my body. We're relating it to me. Who's the me? Or what is the me? It means there's something there that is saying my body.

Just to say my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house or the car or the coat. That belongs to the same essence. That you are. But we take it to mean this person. When we say the persona, we say my self. Instead of saying it's one self. That's what they tell you in the scriptures. There's only one Atman. Atman is the great self. It's not a personal self. It's the one self that's self-shining like the sun. Self-aware. Self-knowing, self-seeing, self-tasting. It's the one self appearing, patterning, and expressing as everything. And it's using all these patterns, shapes, and forms, like you, me, and everything, to express through.

Express through and understand and know them. In that expressing through it, we take it to be me. My personal experience. My personal this, my personal that. Not realising it's the universal essence expressing through you. It's enabled the recognition of all these patterns, shapes, and forms to happen. Recognising that me is the cause when we learn words. You can't do much with I or me. What do we do? We add to them events, experiences, and conditioning. Things that have happened to us are added onto it. Like I'm Bob. I've had a traumatic childhood. Or I'm fearful. Or I'm anxious. All these things are added onto it to give it some, give it some shape and form.

What can you do with I? The word I of itself. Without adding anything to it whatsoever. It's just a sound. It's nothing at all. You can't do anything with the sound. It's a vibration that comes and goes. So to give it some seeming substance, we've added onto it all this conceptual image. And that image we call reference point. Because we're constantly referring to it. The self-centre. It's the self, it's the core of me, we believe it to be. And it's the ego. They're different labels that mean the same thing. Reference point, self-centre, and ego. This believes in centre that we're referring to and relating to as me or mine.

So you see from that that me, relating to this me all the time, I like it, I don't like it, it's good, it's bad, is the cause. Of all my psychological suffering. Because it's only me that can be angry. It's only me that can be unhappy. It's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be jealous or envious. Me is the cause of all my anxiety, my stress, my guilt, my shame, remorse, my fears. They are the effects of the cause, me. And isn't that what so-called karma is? Cause and effect. But what happens if I understand the cause to be a fiction?

And I just ask the simple question, can there be an effect if I'm not relating it to a cause? Well try it out and recognise. If you're not relating to a cause, what effect can there be? If you're not relating fear to the cause, me, can there be such a thing? Or anger to the cause, anger to me? Once it's just going to be sound or noise or feeling, sensation that'll come up, it'll come up and move on. If it's not being related and attached to the conceptual image, I or me. So it doesn't have to be that way. It can be and it is, or we're not taking any notice of it.

We're going along our merry way thinking we're going to become something. We've recognised our beingness, but we think because our beingness is split into this persona, this conceptual image, we've got to become something. But becoming can never be being, because becoming will seemingly take place in some future time. And what's going on in this future time, in this nowness, there's no future time, it is being. You already are that being. And you're not going to become anyway, anything. And they tell you again, you'll never get peace of mind. We think we're going to get peace of mind. But you'll never get peace of mind, because it's the nature of the mind to vibrate.

And the ancients tell you that also in the scriptures, when they call it the peace that passes all understanding. That means it can't be grasped with a concept. It's not the peace of mind, it's the peace that passes all understanding. And you see that if you ask yourself what's wrong with right now, and don't think about it, you can't say it's good, bad, you can't say a word about it. There'll be a recognition that there's nothing wrong or right in this moment. Try to investigate and see this. Everything becomes relative to that centre. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well, I've had this before.

And we want to keep the things we like. We don't want them to go. Not realising that this manifestation, as they tell you, is transient. That's constantly changing. Constantly and ever changing. Ever fresh. Present awareness. You mightn't realise that, but that body you're walking into this room with is not the same body as there right now. There are hundreds of thousands of cells dying in it right at this moment. Right at this moment they're dying, being replaced. And each cell is a fuse with another native intelligence energy that knows what to do. A liver cell is not just a cell. A liver cell is not going to become a kidney cell.

A heart cell is not going to become a skin cell or a brain cell. Every cell, the new intelligence of fusing it knows what to do. And that's what this body is made up of. Thousands of cells. We take it to be one body. We don't say each cell is a separate. Though it is a separate individual, we don't say why doesn't one cell know what another cell is doing. Well, it does to a certain extent. We know what it is. We know it's working and using. When they work together, one acts from the other. And just the same as we. What activity are we doing by ourselves singularly and alone?

Even the breathing and the heart beating. Breathing we couldn't take a breath of air. The air wouldn't be there without us being alive. The fire, the water and all these things, though we can't say what they are, they all work in keeping this body alive. And each cell has its job to do. has its job to do and knows what to do. And it's doing it naturally and effortlessly. And when it's no longer necessary or it can't do it anymore, what happens? It dies and is replaced. When it breaks down, where does it break down to? Where does anything break down? If this Earth were to blow up right now to a million particles or more or so, into atomic particles, would there be one particle lost?

Where would it blow up into? It would all be in space. But you couldn't call it an Earth anymore, just like there are many planets out there now, imploding, exploding and blowing up. You couldn't say it was an Earth anymore. But there wouldn't be a particle that's lost. Because what could you take outside of space? Where would it go? Just like... The water in the river flows down, it's up in the sky, comes down as water, gets in the Earth, flows into the river, and where does it merge? Merge back into the ocean. It comes back into the water again and the cycle goes on.

But you take a bucket of water out of the river, that bucket just becomes stagnant. The water in it just becomes stagnant. And the river has left it behind. And that's what happens with us when we fixate on the word, on the concepts and the ideas. Life leaves us behind. And we're stuck behind the eight ball, trying to work it out or reason it, and become something constantly, and suffer accordingly. All suffering is sensations. Sensations happen in the mind. Thought, feeling and emotion. Just the same, take the analogy of out there in the universe, of steam, water and ice, the same thing, different aspects of the one.

Steam is very subtle. Water maybe, you don't see it until it's condensed a little bit, then it becomes water. Less subtle. And then it becomes ice, solid, or matter. Ice or snow, it becomes matter. So the same thing with thought. Thought's very subtle. There can be thoughts going on that you're not necessarily bringing them to mind at the moment. Very subtle. Then they become a little bit stronger, they become feeling. And that feeling is a sensation. And becomes an emotion. And what have we done with the sensing? When the feelings come up, we've labelled it. This one's anger. Parents told us, anger. This one's fear.

This one's stress. This one's guilt. This one's anxiety. Now when those sensations come up, instead of seeing them fresh and new, we put the whole label on it. Now some of those angers we can have can be really overwhelming. Some of the fears and the anxiety and stress can be overwhelming. Because we're bringing the old back into the moment, and all the energy of belief is going into it, and making it seemingly solid. And that's the only thing that keeps it alive, is this energy. And the energy of belief. We've got all these beliefs. And look at that word belief. Put that to the dictionary.

See what the definition of belief is. And the definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance. Exactly that. An unquestioned acceptance. Something we've accepted without questioning. Of something in the absence of reason. So when these thoughts come up, and we're told they were anger-ridden, or fear, instead of questioning, or looking into it, we see them fresh and new, we load it down with the old, and keep relating to them. Keep bringing them up. Unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. We've got this capacity of reasoning, which is very useful, but it's also self-destructive if we don't understand it. Acceptance in the absence of reason.

Acceptance of an alleged fact. It was fear. It was alleged to be by parents, schools, and society. We've never investigated ourselves, and see how some of these facts we've taken to believe are real or not. Except without positive knowledge or proof. When you put them to the test, and they are false, you'll recognise them as false. Because the false can't stand up to investigation. It's as simple as that. How many beliefs do we question? We don't. How many of the old things do we question? We have investigated a few, like years ago when people stood on the earth, and looked out on the seashore, and looked out where the sea and the sky met.

They were told, don't go out there, you'll fall off the edge of the earth. And you go out there and look at it today, it looks like it's the edge of the earth. But you know now, you've investigated, we've investigated, and we know that the earth is not flat. It's not the edge of the earth. You go down to the ocean, they'll say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You'll laugh at me, you'll be stupid. You'll know you'll never ever get any blue water out of the sea, because the world is not blue. It never was blue, it never will be blue.

We know that, we've investigated, but some people might still believe it, because they've never investigated. Go into a plane, up 30,000 feet, and see where the blueness of the blue sky is. You'll see it's always further out. There's no blueness in the sky, blueness in space. I look out there now, and there seems like a canopy, a blue canopy over there. It's only space. Where it gets far enough distance away, it'll reflect the blueness in it. I was outside yesterday, looking at the skies, the blue sky, the beautiful white cloud in the sky, and I see behind that cloud was space, and the blueness was behind it.

There was no blueness in front of the cloud. And there was no, looked at it also, and on that cloud there came a darker cloud, that seemed to come over it. And there was an enormous space between that cloud and the white cloud. We don't notice, but when you look at these things, and behind that cloud, there's a heck of amount of space there. The space, the enormity of the space, we don't notice, and the different things that appear in it. So investigate things like that, and you'll see that it's not just a cloud, it's a whole lot of space. Things like that. And investigate this concept you've got about yourself.

Recognise and see if you are this person, this separate entity, this individual. If you are this body, what's this body made up of? Earth, air, fire, water and space. If you think you're separate from it, stop breathing. Stop taking the air in. See how long you can last without the air. Take the fire, the body temperature, it's starting to get high with that. Take the water, the body's 80% water. You couldn't live without the water. It's made up of these elements. The body's made up of these elements. And these elements can be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy. So this body is not what you think it is.

But it is the pattern which has been formed to express through, for the capacity of reasoning to express through. Just the same as all the pattern shapes and forms in this manifestation can be appreciated and expressed through and enjoyed. If they didn't have pattern shapes and forms with minds, what we have to express there, who or what would know anything about any of it? Nobody. It'd just be pattern shaping and forming. There's no thing. So the mind is a very useful thing. Being a vibration, a movement of energy, it's also, as I say, it can be very useful, but it's also the cause of all our problems because it vibrates dualistically.

And have a look at that. How does your thinking go? Look at the way you think. Aren't you always thinking dualistically? It's either good or it's bad, pleasant or painful, happy, sad, you know, all sorts of, always in the dualistic opposites. And the boundaries we put upon are the word, the words we've learnt. As Shakespeare told you, he says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. It's only the thinking that's enabled us to put those terms, good and bad, on it, to divide it into concepts. We like the good and we don't want the bad. Pleasant, painful, happy, sad. So we've encased ourselves in a cage of concepts.

Me, Bob the Australian. That's put a limited label on me, a country, or a what. I'm not good enough, or I'm fearful. There are boundaries I've put upon myself. How I know I'm not good enough or I'm fearful, or anything, without the word, without the label. Put all these boundaries upon me and beaten ourselves up with the word, and fixated, and our problems come from that. And we point out the word's not the real. We've brought out these things. And you're not the word. Because take that life essence out of that body. What have you got? You've got a corpse. And before that corpse starts to break down and rot, that corpse, without the life essence, has got eyes, it's got ears, it's got heart, lungs, mouth.

All the organs, kidneys, all the organs are still in that body. But they're not a bit of good to you without the life essence. Just like a computer's got all that information in it. But what good is it if the power's not turned on? Not a bit of good to you at all. So you see, what you are is the life itself. And it's the same life that's patterning, shaping, forming, and functioning, everything, every seeming thing, in this manifestation. Everything. It's that same life expressing through it. And Christ told you that when he said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.

He wasn't setting himself up as something greater. He's saying the same thing as you and I can say. Not talking about himself, he was talking about that sense of presence. How do you know that sense of presence? It translates through your mind as the thought I am. Without that thought I am, could you say anything at all about you? That thought I am is allowing, in other words we've added to it, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. I am this, I am that. But that sense of presence is the label we put on that very life that you are.

And Shakespeare, and Zagatata tells you that nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Now that's very true too when you're investigating. Break that word imagination, down to image in, imagine. What an image is? Of course you do. You look in the mirror and what do you see? You see reflections in the mirror or images in the mirror. Now you can't say those images are not there. Any mirror you look in will be full of reflections and images, totally full of them. There's no space for anything that's out there other than the mirror, in the mirror. So you can't say those reflections are not there, but go up to the mirror and try and grab a reflection out of it.

What you can do is grab the mirror. You can't say, you can't grab it, you can't say it's not there because it appears to be there. But to try and grab it, you can't say it is there. So you can't say it is there, you can't say it's not there, but it appears to be so. Those paintings on the wall, there's images in those. Images of drawings, paintings and reflections in the water. There's still enough, see? But nothing, but that's what's troubling him. You put labels on these images, not seeing what they are when they're practically broken down. The images in the mirror are nothing but the mirror, the art on the wall, the images on the wall are nothing but the painting on the parchment.

All mental images, which we take to be real. Without the images, what are you? You must be the no-thing, just the life itself. Isn't this what I'm going to again tell you? When I know I am that no-thing, the nothing, that is wisdom. When I know I am everything, it's that no-thing that's pressing and patterning, shaping, forming as everything. When I know that I am everything, that is love. And he says between those two, the wisdom and the love, the knowing, the being, the knowing and the loving to be, my life flows. Putting it right in a nutshell, life is constantly functioning between the being, knowing, and the loving to be.

That's that set an end. And expressing is that. And if you know the truth about it, it's going to be a lot simpler and easier and more spontaneous than what it says we're relating constantly to these conceptual images. To the fear, the anger, the belief, and the rest. Spontaneous livingness, spontaneous life, that is what you are. Recognise it, recognise it. Cognising emptiness, again, recognise that you are that. And you can't be anything other than that. So instead of saying, I am Bob, I am the poor fellow, or the I am the anger, or I am the fear, I am that. And everything is that. Everything is a nothing.

So you haven't separated yourself, taken your place. And what comes up, just like that breath you just took, did you say, I'm going to take my next breath? No. Just like that beat of your heart, did you say, I'm going to beat my heart, expand and create? No. It's spontaneous. What's your next thought going to be? You can't tell me what your next thought is going to be because it's spontaneous. It's all around you, pointing to it all the time, that you are this spontaneous life essence. And I can tell you this, that psychological suffering can be with you, free of. It can be. Doesn't mean to say that things won't come up at different times.

But even if it comes up now, maybe you believe it's not real, it's got no sense. It's like a fangless tiger. It's not going to bite you, it's not going to hurt you that much. So just leave everything as it is. See for yourself. Got any questions or any doubts, bring them up, we'll try and work them out, point at point you. We can't tell you what we want you to do, we want you to have a look, to see for yourself. But that's the acid test of everything. See it for yourself. Know the truth, and the truth will set you free. That's the scripture says.

And as we pointed out before, the false cannot stand up to investigation. When you see the false and recognise the false is false, what must you be left with? You can only be left with truth. And that's where the so-called freedom, the peace and joy is. So get into it. Questions or doubts, or tell us about it. If you're looking into it, how you're going with it, what's happening. It's given you anything that makes you want to question further. Or you can say it's all crap, and keep in your old ways of looking. Another 20 years you might decide to look a bit further. You didn't get the chance to answer all those questions.

Oh look, I'll be attending your email. No questions, no doubts? Bob, you have succeeded. You have succeeded. Nobody has questions or doubts. Everything is clear and obvious. It's all there. It is actually, if we look at the, we look everywhere. Bob was saying that the emotion is not separated from the environment. The cell in the body is not separated from the rest of the body. And we are not separated from the air we are breathing. So the separation is purely conceptual. It's easy to understand it on the conceptual level because it is quite obvious. But how to experience it? Sometimes there seems to be a bridge, seems to be a gap to be closed.

That, okay, I know it, I can see it. Even, you know, the biology, Bruce Lipton, the very, very sweet man who is a scientist and who actually studied a cell. We all know about the stem cell therapy right now, but when he was starting it wasn't that popular. He discovered that if the cell is put into a different environment it becomes a different cell. So basically everything is completely connected, completely inseparable from the environment. People from certain culture, when they are put into different culture and brought up as children, they would become someone else. It's basically, there is no gap. We can see how event cannot be separated from the...

No, I have to stop him. You continue. Fantastic. Go. Very playful. You should have banished the cat instead of the cat. No, he's a happy, he's a happy, happy, playful demonstration of the, of the joy and peace in that house. He's, he's just by his... Very involved by being curious. Very involved like us, by curiosity. Yeah. He's my dog all the time. Although it's a little bit, but... Yeah, and those... That's how I see. It's curious and what is there, what's in there, what's in there. Otherwise it would be just stagnant, as you said. And as I learned myself. Exactly. Look how they're not in the head.

They're just spontaneous in the moment. I was, I think, awake for about a year and a half, roughly. And I miss that love. So much. So much. I can put it in the words. Yeah. It's beautiful. Beyond the real, our real world. Yeah. But it's never far away. If you experienced it on daily basis, then you know that it's never far away. It's just that sometimes it feels like there are clouds obscuring it. And those clouds are conceptual thinking. The me, you know, the obsessing about myself. Where is it? I want it for me. That's the overlay of the narrative. If there is quiet, if there is no talk in the head, that peace and that love is never far away.

It's almost as if you look at the storm on the surface of the ocean. When you go a little bit deeper, the current actually goes down very, very quickly and is totally peaceful in the depth. But on the surface is storm. And that storm is the constant interpretation when mind comes and translate everything. Oh, how is it relevant to me? What am I going to do about that? What am I going to do next? And all that self-concern that comes up with it. It completely clouds that beautiful, spacious sense of belonging or sense of non-separation. But if you stop thinking for a moment, do you have, like you had it for one and a half year, but when you stop thinking, throughout the day, do you have moments when you can feel that peaceful, blissful sense of togetherness?

Sometimes I can. Sometimes I am trying on a daily basis to feel it. Sometimes I cannot really reach it to be very still. Sometimes I feel it a bit if I pray, a little bit deeper and deeper. But mostly now I am struggling. I am struggling and I feel like life is not pleasant anymore. And gosh, it is so sad. When I feel this great, it is such a lovely picture of ocean of love that we are surrounded with. And we just cannot reach it. It is very, I don't know how to say it. It is here, it is somewhere very close. I still feel it around me often.

But something is between me and definitely, I did something wrong to have this separation. No, this is not you. You didn't do, no, you didn't do absolutely anything. Yeah. This separation is the default position of the mind. It is actually called a default network in the brain that fires the narrative and brings that sense of separation. You are that peace and love and then in that peace of love, that space which you are, there comes that narrative, that image, that idea of separate little me. And that separate little me is an obscuration. This is exactly what stands between that spacious loving awareness being presence. So this is impossible situation because that little me can never get and dissolve itself into the ocean because that one, that little me is exactly what prevents it from happening.

That is the storm. So the storm on the surface cannot become the peace. It is really, and the more you struggle, that is the paradox. That is the horrible thing. The more you try, the more you fight, the stronger the me and the further away you stray from the truth. The secret is you are that love already. You only dream that you are not. You only dream that you are the person. So now the waking up is waking up from the dream of a person into your true nature of being love. So you know because you've been that for long enough. So you know that was home.

You know that was something totally natural. And it still is. It's just that little idea that stands between you and that home. That idea is that you are the separate self caged in the concept, trapped in the body-mind, confined in that suffering. But this is only a dream. This is an idea. You know that. You can't be that. Look how your body cannot be separate. It breathes, it exchanges waters, fluid. It receives. It responds to the environment. Even your thoughts are completely, constantly connected with what is happening around. As Bob said about belief. I think I changed a bit my belief after since my vibration went down again.

I think I did have some conflict. My old habit with my sister-in-law. Over money. And I think that might have attracted some forces of the darkness which I think it's a real lesson for me to learn. Because as we all don't realize how easy it is to lose it. Because now I read on and it's very logical. This type of energy doesn't bear to feel any dark energy. So it's already something between me, as you said, and this energy of love. And I think I did it mostly unconsciously at that time. But now I'm becoming more and more aware. I have to let that all, all those worry about money, about whatever, family, whatever could happen.

And I have to stay as much as possible in the moment. It's hard. It's hard as I... Thought, feeling and emotion. That's how it comes up. There's a subtle thought at the back of the room. Now, what are we talking about? Satyajit Ananda. Being, knowing, loving to be. There's a subtle thought going on. Instead of worrying about money or whatever it is, then the feeling or sensation comes up. Thought there, well, loving to be. Be warm to yourself. Being, knowing and loving. You're being. Just give yourself a little smile instead of worrying about what it is that's going to cause the fear and anxiety. Give yourself a little wink if necessary.

Say, I know you're there. Talk to your own heart. And the idea, most of all the idea that you've done something wrong. You could not possibly have done anything wrong. There was a guy who did the reading, the research on people who woke up, 1,200 people, Jeffrey Martin. And I think if you know Rondine, maybe you know Richard. Just a few weeks. I don't know very well. But look, this guy, he was doing a research. And as a byproduct of the research, he got a lot of emails from people who had experienced similar to yours. Some of those people were in a clear seeing, completely inseparable for 20 years.

And then a couple of strong traumatic experiences happened. One in line, husband died, a child had a car crash, and the wife left. And then the separate self, that neuronal connections in the brain in the default mode network started firing up and recreating the sense of contraction again. You know, they were 20 years of clarity and suddenly trapped again into that cage of concept. But did they do anything wrong? Should they be punished? Don't think about that. Don't think that this is your fault, what happened because your sister, because the money. No, this was a circumstance. This was the world. This was the world bringing a wave of adversities.

And something clicked in a wrong way. But it doesn't mean that you've done something wrong. Like Bob says, be warm towards yourself. Have love and compassion towards yourself. You, as the person here, you've lost the most precious diamond of the freedom. How could you even punish yourself now for that? Have just give yourself a hug and cry and keep looking because that person, it feels that this is who you are right now. But you are more than that. You are okay, that body and that mind and that past and everything else. But you also, the space in which you're breathing, you also the whole space of seeing.

Like if you look at the objects or you hear the objects, can you separate yourself, the one who is hearing from the sounds? If you look into it, you can't. So you are the whole space of hearing. It's really interesting about hearing. Yes. I'm so sensitive to hearing since then that any noise or anything, this might have stopped it as well. In the next bedroom, I have the family arguing or fighting and all that worry. Yes. And just, and the hearing is so loud, it seems like every noise. And that does me a bit angry, but I just have to remind myself, I have to stay calm, really calm, no matter what they do or what I hear.

So I cover my ears, I plug my ears sometimes to cut this, a bit of this noise. Not to be all with the noise. Not to immerse, it's a noise, it's not a pleasant sound, like the music that would need to relax or beautiful words we'll talk. So that is absolutely fear. It just, I feel like it's getting into me. Of course, of course. Especially if you are dealing with really difficult emotions, if they're arguing and fighting, that's very difficult. For me, I think the easy way to contemplate on that is to actually, instead of blocking your ears, try to see how they're actually expressing love.

You know, if your mother and let's say your sister or your father or whoever, the two people arguing, see how they really want good for themselves. Sometimes, this is what Nisargadatta also, I learned it from Bob's teacher. He was saying, everything is love. Sometimes that love feels misguided and it feels like selfishness. It feels like self-centeredness. Like I will kill you so I can steal from you. But this is still love. It is self-love. That self-love is directed towards the ego. So it's not a healthy type of love, but it's still love on the core motivation. So you hear them talking and you hear the mother being disturbed.

Oh my gosh, we have no money or whatever. And you could actually see how she cares. She wants to be safe. She wants to have money. She wants to be at peace. She's not doing it because it gives her joy to fight with someone. She's doing it because she is craving love. Then, instead of judging it as, oh my gosh, this is so bad. This is killing me. Because I understand it. Yes, the negativity, the aggression, the violence is absolutely shocking. It's horrible and it's very, very difficult to maintain your open heart in the face of violence. But sometimes just having even a little insight into that violent situation, oh my gosh, these people, they also want good.

They just don't know any better. And you feel compassion for them. And if there is any way for you to remove yourself from that environment, my gosh, I hope that life will wave you the way that you will. Because maybe there is another way to provide yourself more kind of supportive, supportive environment than this. That's really difficult. I did have some support while my family, my adult children are now grownups. But yeah, they grew up with this pattern of thinking negative, we all. And only since this, whatever it's awakening, born again, I don't know what to call it. Because since then, I start to be interested in life.

I was really, I could say, bad. You could say. So after that, I was just looking through the internet. I don't know how to use it, but somehow, something. So yeah, this interesting about to see what's happening to me and if I can help my family. But they only judge me, like thinking I have another episode of some kind of, I don't know, psychotic episode or angry, or who knows. We are easily to judge each other as soon as we can put a label of this type of behavior, whether it's good or bad behavior. Yeah, that's true. And I did realize I have to look through the internet.

I have to look through the eyes of Christ, which she said. And through the eyes, what I, through the real love that I had to look through and to feel through that. And exactly as you said, to understand they try to manage it in their own way. They are not bad, like my family. I kind of also, at this time, I saw my daughter. I saw my daughter mistreating my grandson. And anyway, it's a way, like she was in that world, I would say. I understand it now. So I can put up a lot more with her behavior. She absorbed herself a lot of unkind treatment from her ex-boyfriend.

So yeah. But I start to understand her because I call it myself, like I pass down my worries to my children as a parent when we go to psychologists. They don't look at the parents. We are the problem. We are not the role models. They look at the children. They always focus on the children. I think they should look at the parents first and then at the children. But am I right about it? Because they pass down the worries. They pass down the unkind words. They miss concepts of the world. But children have no idea about the whole world. And I realize we really, really punishing them in such a cruel way.

True. When, as a parent, to this, I don't know, dualistic way. I was kind of, the last few weeks, start to think, I can't believe how heartless I was to my children because I went to some, even to mental hospitals through things. And I still have one son very much living in the hospital. It's just part of the mental hospital unit. But when they were a bit young, the psychologist suggested, well, they should go to have a bit of therapeutic, I don't know what they do, this program in hospital. So to my youngest, I took them to hospital. But at the time, my heart, as a mom, sometimes I was like, I don't know.

I don't know. Sometimes I thought, but not fully. I couldn't think fully right. Like, these kids only need love. Love. They crave for love. Not for somebody to tell them this or that or constantly hassle them to do the right thing because they are not ready, I think, to do these things. Because when they are little, they full of fears. We are full of fears. We just give them as parents. So many fears, many about worry, about money, about all these things you can hear, all these things. And I said, what is the transgenerational curse? It's exactly passing these things that worries us. We're passing them to the children.

And they have it. And the next generation is like curse. Yeah. Yeah. That's how we all believe that we are separate. We are individual, the person. It's not only the character defects or the worries or the fears, but the biggest one, like Bob says, the biggest one is the belief, after all, I'm only human. Like, you're not human. You are that field of love. You're that ocean of love. You only put the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear, the fear of love.

You only put the jacket of a human and believe that you are a human. And you give it to your children. But you are innocent. You don't know any better. Like, you were doing your best. You loved them. You thought what was best. Even putting them to the hospital, they told you that was best. And if you knew, your heart was saying something else. But then the head takes over and you trust people who tell you what's best. So you are totally moment to moment you were taking decisions. having your best intentions and the kids best intentions and so were your parents when they were bringing your you up and their parents so you can see already how totally inseparable the whole the whole thing is the whole dance it's not only parents affected the the child but also their schools kids are often get bullied at schools or they have teacher that they really like and they want attention and the teacher ignores them or punishes them or you know there is thousand little things the malnourishment sometimes they have not enough of magnesium and they get a little bit stressed out or they get some nervous sort of takes the whole environment creates the the little one and and brings it up just like every cell in the body you put the stem cell into your knee and you will have a knee cell or in the liver you'll have liver cell because it is inseparable and now to recognize that it's not just the body that's the body that's the body that's the body that in the body that we have an emotion is the reality that it needs to be waste when you develop from memory you are a human being it needs to be the part and so you recognize yourself as that separable Force of Life you know that is blowing the wind and looking the branch moving its hearing the sounds and also expressing as the sounds because when you had your year and a half of freedom you weren't a little separate human in your head looking at everything being United you were part of it you what you were United it was a energy the unity we all remember so you to be part of it you were united but you were the unity the unity made of something you are not just yet you are not you are the you must be the same you are the the same so when youami said should I accompany you a youami positive unخang consciousness so it means that and it felt right it felt home so that was the truth and now you travel to be a again the little human in the head or a little image looking out how am I gonna join with everything that little one joins with everything when it's gone when this little controlling sort of a thing a judgmental little thing the narrative or this energy is good or this is bad this shouldn't happen you know this Tinker in the head is the only that is the only thing that actually separates you from that unity consciousness in which you realize which you know innately yes that little monkey little monkey mind which is always either in the future like Bob was saying dualistic mind either in the future or in the past this is good this is bad this is pleasant this is painful this should happen it shouldn't have happened making sure that all the status quo let's move it over to the next slide completed we are tunneling down the ».

This is for me, this is not for me, this is about me. And everything in between. Of course, this is very good, this is very bad, this is medium good. All the thinking between the two extremes, all the commentary, the voice that talks in your head. Like when we are children and we start hearing that voice first, and then we start listening to it all the time, we start believing that this voice is me. This is my heart speaking, or this is my true self speaking. How could that be? Who is hearing it? There is a voice talking, and there is something hearing it. So am I the one who is speaking, or am I the one who is hearing?

Or is how many of me is there? So really, there is this identifying yourself as the judgmental mind, as the mind that is constantly vibrating between the two opposites. That's the trap. That's what creates, because the same mind is going to tell you that you are not good enough. You are a bad daughter or a bad mom. And the same mind that is telling you this weather is good and that weather is bad, or having money is good and not having money is bad, violence is bad, and you know, the same mind, it will define you as a body, as a person. And this is equally the story.

Look, if you look at your parents fighting, and you see that this is violence, this is negative energy, this is horrible, and now you kind of look a little bit closer, and you look that your mom is crying and yelling because she's afraid. And she's afraid because she wants to be safe. And she wants to be safe because she cares for herself. She's got a little bit of a self-love, and she cares. And now she's, you know, pretending to be big and strong because she's afraid. Now, something that was negative energy, now you can see as well. As a call for love, as positive energy, as something that is sweet.

The same mind was telling you a moment ago something else. Now you can see this was bullshit. So the same mind is going to tell you now, you're not good enough, you're separate, you lost it, you've done something bad, you've been punished. The same mind can tell you, hey, look, maybe that's not exactly what's happening. Maybe I'm completely innocent. Maybe if everything is that one life essence, maybe I am the beloved child, I am the beloved child of the universe myself too. If everything is that, look, that Bob is saying that one essence vibrating into different forms. One form of vibration is the sound. Another form of vibration is the light.

Yet another form of vibration is that, you know, microscopic particles or even the subatomic particles becoming electrons and becoming atoms and becoming a skin and a body. This is also a vibration. Everything is that vibration. You're not excluded. You're not. The mind can tell you, no, no, no, you're bad, you're punished, you're worthless. But looking a little bit deeper and you see that, oh my God, I am already a part of that one vibrating essence. I cannot be anything else because everything else is that too. Every sound, every light, every movement, the wind blowing, the weather, the blood pumping, all of this is that. So if you...

Habitually, we tend to believe the voice in our head. The voice in your head is telling you that energy is bad and I am worthless, I'm doing wrong. And you believe it and you suffer. But when you see that this is just a habitual narrative, that your innocent parents innocently role modeled into you, they didn't mean to. They just didn't know any better. And you see that that little monkey mind, that little human or whatever controller in the head, is just a commentary. It's just like a subtitle going on the news screen. You don't have to listen to it. It doesn't say anything sensible. Well, sometimes it does.

It can tell you how to build the house or how to learn a new language or something. But if it talks about, if it comments and judge yourself and life and relationship with life, it just creates the pain, the suffering. But if you realize that that commentary is not who you are and it's not telling you the truth and you don't have to listen to it, you basically kind of see it as a stream of vibrating energy. Just like you hear the sounds outside, you can hear the sounds inside. Just don't worry about them. Because it's not easy. Oh, okay. It's sort of related to the same topic.

And it's not really a question. It's not a question as such. But it's more of a comment, I guess. Yes. I guess, clearly, you're in a state of turmoil and grief. And so when we hear the message that we are nothing, yet we're everything, and we talk about practicing self-love, which is what was mentioned, so the practicality of that, without buying into the human self-love, how can that be best described in a practical way so that, I guess, we are always reminding ourselves of that self-love, which is everything and nothing, if that makes sense? Yes. And also to know that when you have a conflict within yourself, the identification, instead of being with that oneness, which is everything, you're in the narrative, which is the image you have about yourself.

That's the me, right? And that's appearing upon that presence that you are. So it's objective. So that me, all conflict arises when that me has a response to the other, whatever that other is, whether it's a person, place, or a thing, right? So that image you have about yourself, Bob said at the beginning of the meeting, the image is never the real. It's a habit. And it can only work in the pairs of opposites. And Bob talked about that. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you. Just know that you're not the story. You're not the me. You're the presence that appears upon it. And the functioning mind and the action figure will go on and do what it does.

But you're not the story you have about yourself. And you're not the story you have about anyone else. So going back to the practicing self-love, so the practicality of it, how would you describe that in the best possible way? How would you do that? Without loosing, without buying into the story. And without, and this is a dangerous thing, you don't want to rewrite the story. You don't want to rewrite a positive story or negative story into a positive story. It always boils down to the recognition. Instead of rewriting, sometimes a little bit of a translation kind of opens it up. Like you have the statement and you look at the opposite, and then they both collapse.

But the recognition is the key thing. Like whenever any sort of a doubt comes up, you just pause, stop thinking for a moment. And then, just in that silence, see what's going on. And you will always find out that what's going on is just sensations, perceptions, projections, narratives, thoughts, showing up, coming and going, disappearing. None of it is really essential. None of it holds any weight unless you give it to it, unless you interpret. Like sometimes, like what you were saying, something happened, the fight in the family, and I did something wrong and I got punished. That's an interpretation. That's not what happened. It's like ancient people believed that if they didn't pray enough, that the rain or the thunderstorm or the night will destroy them.

It is... It is very romantic, but it's very... It's not that I believe. It's funny. I just said I let this low vibration into me again. But did you have any choice? Did you really choose to let them in? Well, I didn't choose to let them in. No, exactly. So you're completely innocent. You didn't choose to let them in. They just came and they, you know, the vibration took the body, and whatever happened, happened. You didn't do anything. The key... I did the thought. You didn't even do that. Did you really choose to think that way? Could you stop it? Because if you could, you would.

If I would have thought, oh, my dear sister, she did what she could, her best. If I would have thought that positive mental state, I don't think I would have let this vibration, I mean, my high vibration to go there. You're totally right. And why didn't you have that thought? Because it's not up to you. Recognize that. If you had that positive thought, you wouldn't let that vibration to happen. But that thought didn't come. Where do thoughts come from? Why this thought didn't show up? Because of your conditioning? Because your parents didn't bring that habit into you? Look, you are completely innocent of not having a thought when there is no thought.

Like, you don't know what is your next thought going to be. I don't know what's my next thought. Bob doesn't know what his next thought is going to be. And now the situation will come and the thought will not cross my mind. And now I won't do whatever I could possibly do if the thought was there. But I have no choice. You had no choice. That thought didn't come up. Not because you are bad, but because it didn't. Just the same way as this tram didn't pass right now. It's just the sand didn't come up. Or the magpie didn't sing. It didn't sing. It's nothing.

It's nobody's fault. Can you see that? Because you don't want to blame yourself for something that you didn't have any power over. See, the key of the message that Bob got from Nisargadatta and we are all getting from Bob is that the person that we believe ourselves to be is not. It's a fiction. There is no little monkey or little person in the head who can choose thoughts or choose to act out on thoughts. There is no one there. There is nobody in the head. You are that ocean of loving life force inseparate. This is just your vehicle. This is your little car or little house or little coat.

You just put it on so that look as a life or pure presence or love. You don't have any eyes. So you can't see the beautiful world. You don't have ears. You can't hear. So you adapt. You dream yourself a body so you can look, you can hear, you can speak, you can express. But you are not this body. This is just your vehicle of experience and expression. But you still are inseparable field of presence awareness. Not that little person. Because with the body, you see this is the field of life and it gets that body almost solid. You know, that's the subtlety and the solidity.

And when they meet, there is an illusion of a person coming up. That there is someone in control, someone in charge. But that is illusion. There is nobody there. There is no one. This voice that says, hey, but there is a me here in the body and I'm not out the body. I'm here in and not outside. That is a dream. We dream to be separate. But you remember, you didn't feel. You confirm that. When you had your year and a half of clarity, you were joined in with the whole field of life. You weren't a little monkey in the head looking out and feeling united.

You were the united universe. I do not know what happened because I still keep on trying to put a kind of, to put it in the words. I could say born again, but why did I lose it and how I lose it? And this all questions. Exactly. You're dwelling in the story. That really fills my mind. I'm like, why did I lose it? And how could I have lost such a precious treasure of the world that people don't know how to reach it? Yes. And I said, I said, we don't know what, how, how real, how, how this happiness, the real happiness, it's ecstatic beyond the words.

Yeah. And, and it's, it's frustrating. Of course. Not being able to, to get back into that feeling. Of course. It's really frustrating. And I said, even that probably stops me that. Yes, exactly. The thought of being frustrating. Yes. It's annoying that I, I cannot get to. Any thought about you, any thought that identifies as you stops you. Yes. Because you are the field of love, not the little me in that field who wants to jump. You know, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.

You are actually the ocean, not on the shore jumping to the ocean. You are the ocean already. So it, Thank you. it, it is the. You. yes, the problems it's just the pattern, it's just an old pattern of identifying with the separate me. Yes. And you're not that, you're not that separate me. Yes. Mm hmm. See, See, what I was saying to Sandra the, the key thing is always recognition. Like you can't explain yourself what happened and understand the story in the past because you are in the head. Recognition happens from the silence of this moment, this presence. So the only way for you to recognize yourself as that ocean is to stop thinking.

Stop thinking. With that I have to go up in the middle of the desert. No, you don't have to go in the middle of the... Not to see nobody, not to hear nobody. One of the things, I went to the country just before it happened. I don't know, my time. I had this awakening around 45, which I heard, this 45, 46, and I heard Bob had his awakening around that age. Is it true? Yes. So I was talking about Bob with Rodin and I said, I think it is kind of, you know, with the... Yes. I doubt a bit when we talk about these things.

But I said, one thing makes me more to believe people. It's like we have in common something. Yeah. And we can identify so easily. Well, through some of the things. But one of the things, it's like to just feel, feel it. And I just even felt it just before as I talk about this. And I try to sometimes just to stay still to feel it. And when I say right now, I do feel it more, that feeling than usual. And I know when I'm around some people without their mind in other places, it means we are here. So I think that helps a lot. I can feel it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, trust me, it's never far away. And the only obstruction between you and that field of freedom is the you. Is the idea that there is a me, separate me. That me who you truly are is pure presence. Pure presence. You always are. The I am, like Bob says, I am is the quickest translation of the presence through the mind. So you know that you are. But then you think you are. You think you know who you are. You think you are the person, the body, someone who had something and lost something. No, who you are is undescribable. As Bob says, sat chitananda, being, you exist.

You have the being. You are. Chit, consciousness, you conscious. And ananda, you wouldn't want to die. You love to be. So this is who you are, not a limited person. I see the internet for everybody. And they say, I hear this, another fear. I hear on the games, I'm dead, I'm dead. I hear my grandson, I'm dead, I'm dead. So how damaging these games can be to the young kids? Beyond, I think beyond anybody can understand. Yes. But look. Do you believe so? Absolutely. But look, there is. Because they constantly say, I'm dead, I fail, you know, in the games. Yes, yes. So it's such an unhealthy.

It makes you feel. It may even. Environmental. It may even make them suicidal. It may even prompt them to go to addiction. And you know what happened? Bob was one of the addicts. And if he wasn't, if he didn't suffer tremendously, suicidal depression and incredible suffering. Like the biggest, most painful suffering that I've seen him go through. The pain, he says, is all laughable, comparing to the suffering that he went through as a young guy before his awakening. And if these people, those kids or those games go through this suffering, you don't know. Maybe that is how the life is planting the seed for investigation and awakening.

Because people who don't really suffer that much, they don't even look for the freedom. So it's always best to just hold your judgments and say, I don't know. I don't know. It's easy to say this is so wrong. It's easy. But you know, the life is so wise and it's so wide and it's so complex that we never know. Sometimes the worst things that happen to us prove to be the best over time. Like, you know, my greatest fear was to lose my ex-husband who I loved beyond measure. And when he decided that I'm not suitable to be a mother of his children and he left, that was the best thing that ever happened to me.

And many, many other things in life that people report that were a transformational breakthrough. Even though they felt like greatest fear of suffering. We don't know. So I have to let them be what they are? No, you will be moved to do whatever you move to do. Life may make move you to stop the gaming. Life may move you to separate, isolate, look after them. But don't take credit for it. Yeah, well, time's up. But you two can carry on if you like. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. I'll just stop there.